[time-nuts] Maintenance day for MSF 60 KHz service in UK

[Peter Vince]

The UK's National Physical Laboratory have just confirmed that the MSF 60
kHz time and frequency signal broadcast from Anthorn Radio Station will be
shut down on Thursday 14 June from 10:00 to 14:00 BST (09:00 to 13:00 UTC)
for routine maintenance.

The maintenance schedule can be seen at:

http://www.npl.co.uk/science-technology/time-frequency/products-and-services/time/msf-outages

 Regards,

  Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] NEO-M8N vs. NEO-M8T

[Peter Vince]

On 21 May 2018 at 21:24, Mark Sims wrote:
>
> One thing to look out for when messing with sawtooth messages is the
question of does the message come
> out before or after the PPS pulse...  good look finding the answer in the
receiver documentation...
>
> "After" seems to be the most common answer.  That makes hardware/delay
line compensation rather tricky.
> Sometimes you can use the antenna cable delay / pps offset commands to
shift the pulse before the true
> position (assuming that they support negative offsets) and use a longer
delay line to add the tweak back in.


In the protocol specification for the Furuno GT-87
( from, for example:
https://www.marutsu.co.jp/contents/shop/marutsu/ds/GT-87ProtocolSpecifications.pdf
)
the sawtooth correction figure is given in the CRX message, at the top of
page 30 of that document says the figure given refers to the second before
last (t-1) !

 Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] ✘NEO-M8N vs. NEO-M8T

[Peter Vince]

Hi Gary,

 It sounds like you need some special hardware that corrects the pulse
timing before feeding it out.  Richard Hambley's CNS-II did exactly that,
using a programmable delay-line - see:

 https://www.cnssys.com/cnssys.php

I seem to remember discussion about that in the Time-Nuts archives.  I have
one, and it is excellent (and Richard was very helpful), but was "only"
accurate to a nanosecond or two - excellent then, but you can now get that
natively from the Furuno.  But if you were willing to build some hardware
and use that principle on the Furuno, with (a lot of!) care you should be
able to get a very stable and accurate output signal.

 Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] Low noise Oscillator

[Peter Vince]

Thanks Bert.  They seem to have published it online too - see:


http://www.microwavejournal.com/articles/30053-ultra-low-phase-noise-oscillators-with-attosecond-jitter

Regards,

 Peter Vince


On 25 April 2018 at 14:30, ew via time-nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> wrote:

> In the April Microwave Journal is an extensive article on a "Ultra-Low
> Phase Noise Oscillators with Attosecond Jitter"and measuring techniques.
>
>
> Bert Kehren
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Re: [time-nuts] Environmental sensor recommendations

[Peter Vince]

Hi Mark,

 SparkFun have some boards that have multiple sensors.  They *used* to
do one with a USB connection that had temperature, pressure, humidity, and
light!  But I see that is now "retired" (
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/retired/8311 ) and has been replaced by
an Arduino shield:

 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/13956

The previous USB model was very easy to use, and sensitive enough for
pressure that it easily showed when I walked up a couple of flights of
stairs!  They have a large selection of boards, including several with I2C
connections, so maybe one of those would be suitable?

 TTFN,

  Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] ULN regulator with more current capability than LT3042?

[Peter Vince]

Please forgive this naive question, but I am concerned about the idea of
simply running two regulators in parallel.  Just like you don't put two
batteries in parallel, how do you ensure accurate load balancing between
the two?  I would worry that one of them, with a fractionally higher
voltage, would be driven into saturation, thus ruining any noise
isolation.  I must be missing something here?

 Peter


On 18 March 2018 at 22:43, Charles Steinmetz  wrote:

> Tom wrote:
>
> Run two in parallel for twice the current and less noise?
>>
>
> This is actually a better solution than using an LT3045, for two reasons.
> First, as Tom noted, by paralleling two devices, the noise is reduced by
> sqrt 2 = ~1.4:
>
> "Designed as a precision current reference followed by a high performance
> voltage buffer, the LT3042 is easily paralleled to increase output current,
> spread heat on the PCB and further reduce noise -- output noise decreases
> by the square-root of the number of devices in parallel."  [LT Journal of
> Analog Innovation, v25 n1 Apr 2015]. 
>
> Second, it reduces the dissipation of each regulator, so they run cooler.
> And as LT says, it allows spreading the heat on the board (but it is not
> advisable to put them too far apart).
>
> The primary disadvantage is that two 3042s cost about half again more than
> one 3045.  Also, board space may be a factor in some applications.
>
> So, unless you are extremely tight on board space or the ~1.5x cost
> increase is prohibitive, two 3042s in parallel are a better solution than
> one 3045 if you are seeking the lowest noise possible.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Charles
>
>
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[time-nuts] Downconverter for Quartzlock A8 GPS Freq and Time Standard

[Peter Vince]

A friend here in the UK has asked me to ask if anyone has a Downconverter
for the Quartzlock A8 GPS Freq and Time Standard.  Please contact me off
list, and I'll pass on any replies.

 Thank you,

  Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] UltrAtomic clock.

[Peter Vince]

Hi Dan,

 I can't answer directly as I am in England, but I have a similar
problem with my MSF and DCF clocks here in the autumn (sorry, "Fall" :-) -
my clocks only switch on their receivers once a day, at 1 o'clock in the
morning, but at the end of summer our time doesn't change until 2 o'clock,
so the clocks miss the update until the following night.  Maybe yours is
similar?

 Regards,

  Peter




On 5 November 2017 at 14:23, Dan Kemppainen  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> So, anyone notice what time their UltrAtomic clock did the dst change?
>
> Mine didn't change last night. Time has been right since it first set
> itself, so, I'm suspecting it's getting signal. ( We're in northern
> Michigan, eastern time zone.)
>
> Anyone else have a clock that missed dst change?
>
> Dan
>
>
> --
> Sent from my phone.
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[time-nuts] Fwd: Annual Maintenance Shutdown of the MSF Service 14 - 31 August 2017

[Peter Vince]

The 60KHz time signal service "MSF" in the UK is to be closed down during
the day for the latter part of August for routine maintenance:



Annual Maintenance Shutdown of the MSF Service





The annual maintenance shutdown of the MSF service to allow safe
maintenance of the masts and antennas, including greasing of the stays,
will take place between 14 and 31 August 2017.










*The service will be off-air from: 08:00 to 19:00 BST each day, including
weekends.*




If the weather is unsuitable for work to be carried out, then the service
will not be turned off. If the work is completed sooner than 19:00 BST on
any day, the service will be restored as soon as possible.


The MSF radio signal is a dedicated time broadcast that provides an
accurate and reliable source of UK civil time, based on the NPL time scale
UTC(NPL).
   Learn more



This email was sent by: National Physical Laboratory, Hampton Road,
Teddington, Middlesex, TW11 0LW, United Kingdom



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Re: [time-nuts] A milestone approaches

[Peter Vince]

Good morning all - I hope you enjoyed the Unix 1.5 billion parties?  An
ex-colleague who used to work on VAX computers has just sent me this
related message:


OpenVMS also has something to say about time:

.
OpenVMS represents system time as the 64-bit number of 100ns intervals
 since midnight preceding November 17, 1858, which is the start of Modified
Julian Day numbering.
.
.
This 100 nanosecond granularity implemented within OpenVMS and the 63-bit
absolute time representation (the sign bit indicates *absolute time* when
clear and *relative time* when set) should allow OpenVMS trouble-free time
computations up to 31-JUL-31086 02:48:05.47. At this instant, all clocks
and time-keeping operations in OpenVMS will suddenly fail, since the
counter will overflow and start from zero again.
.
.
You may have to reset your oven timer after this point . . .


 Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] A milestone approaches

[Peter Vince]

2038 could be an "interesting" year - on the 22nd of April, the MJD hits
65535  (2^16-1) !


On 12 July 2017 at 13:19, Tom Van Baak  wrote:

> Thanks for the notice. Add these to your list:
> 



> 2147483648 0x8000 Tue Jan 19 03:14:08 2038 GMT (you survived)
>
> While we're at it, we have a rare T MJD event coming in 2023:
>
> 1968-05-24 00:00:00 UTC (DOY = 145, Fri) = JD 244.5 = MJD 4.0
> 1995-10-10 00:00:00 UTC (DOY = 283, Tue) = JD 245.5 = MJD 5.0
> 2023-02-25 00:00:00 UTC (DOY =  56, Sat) = JD 246.5 = MJD 6.0
>
> /tvb
>
>
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[time-nuts] Software for Spirent GSS4100 GPS simulator

[Peter Vince]

Our favourite auction site has someone selling a Spirent GSS4100 GPS
simulator cheap, "for parts", as it is untested.  I'm guessing the vendor
has no clue HOW to test it, especially as they have no software to go with
it, so am hoping it might actually be OK.  Worth a punt, anyway.  However,
the download link for the "SimCHAN v2.02" software on the Spirent site
doesn't work, and they have yet to reply to my email.  Does anyone have a
copy of that software?  While not "freeware", it was provided with the
equipment (on a CD), and is no use without the hardware, and vice-versa,
and if that CD has been lost by the original hardware owner, it seems
reasonable for the new owner to ask for a copy of said software, and so my
conscience is clear in asking for a copy.

Thanks in advance, Peter Vince
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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Antenna on Tower.

[Peter Vince]

Hi Mark,

 This is all new information to me - and fascinating!  Have you just
"calculated" the offsets (using known values from somewhere), or "measured"
it by very long term averaging of the GPS position information?

 Peter Vince


On 20 June 2017 at 17:34, Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I just added the ability to calculate solid earth tides and the vertical
> gravity offset due to the sun and moon to Lady Heather.   The lat/lon
> offset is typically around +/- 60 cm per day.Vertical offset is around
> +/- 180mm.  Depending upon the day and where you are, the swings are not
> symmetrical around 0.0
>
> Solid earth tides are a BIG factor in precision geodesy.   Gravity offset
> is a big issue for precision pendulum nuts.  If your pendulum clock cannot
> detect gravity offsets (very few can) it's not nutty enough.
>
> The attached plot shows around 5 days of data.
>
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Re: [time-nuts] uC ADC resolution (was: Poor man's oven)

[Peter Vince]

On 7 June 2017 at 21:40, Attila Kinali  wrote:
>
> Additionally: if I would set out to build my own OCXO today, I would
> go and buy one of those lunch thermos flasks to house everything. Their
> isolation is higher than anything you can easily build yourself,
> especially at that size. I would place the (inner) oven at the bottom,
> probably using a puck design similar to the E1938, place the electronics
> on top of it and close the lid using an aluminium plate which forms
> the outer oven.

Might there be a problem that a thermos flask is TOO well insulated, and
even the minimal heat generated in the electronics would be more than could
escape through the vacuum, and so the unit would cook?
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Re: [time-nuts] Anthorn eLoran

[Peter Vince]

Hi Alan,

 I get the impression there is a new project under development to make
it a commercial operation - see:

http://www.taviga.com/

 Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] Anthorn eLoran

[Peter Vince]

I gather there is an intermittent fault that is taking out a fuse, which
they are, necessarily, working hard to rectify.

Peter


On 10 May 2017 at 10:58, Iain Young  wrote:

> On 09/05/17 20:28, moGandalfG8--- via time-nuts wrote:
>
>> Iain Young wrote:
>> I now have all four with green tracking lights, so  looks good to go
>>
>> Thanks Iain,
>>
>> Also looking good here now so seems like I cried wolf after all,  although
>> very happy it wasn't anything more permanent:-)
>>
>>
> I noted this morning, mine were all "Red" again. This very much suggests
> antenna maintenance (Off while they work on it during the day, and on
> once they've finished the day's work before starting work on it again the
> next morning, rather like they do with MSF next door)
>
>
> Iain
>
>
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[time-nuts] MSF maintenance day

[Peter Vince]

The "MSF" 60KHz time-signal transmitter in England has several scheduled
maintenance days each year when it is turned off for a few hours in the
middle of the day.  Yesterday was one such day, and I was curious to see
when and how quickly they would turn it off and on again, so recorded the
event using my WinRadio card, and a not very special aerial - so it is a
rather noisy signal.  Attached is a plot of both turn-on and turn-off -
note the different time-scales:

[image: Inline images 1]

It was turned off by reducing the power over about half a second, and then
curiously a few seconds later it bounced back at reduced power for a few
seconds.  When it was turned on again half an hour later, they slowly
ramped up the power over about a minute!

(Plots from screen-grabs of Audacity from the recorded CW tone.)

Peter Vince  (London, England)
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Re: [time-nuts] Timelab question

[Peter Vince]

On 21 February 2017 at 23:35, Mark Sims  wrote:

> ...
> I plan to package up my TICC and a couple of TADD-2 Mini dividers with a
> RPI-3 and the 7" touchscreen display and an Osciiloquartz 8663 DOXCO to
> make a small ADEV analyzer box.
>

Wow!  If you can persuade John and TAPR to produce that, I would be there
with my chequebook before the ink had dried on the web-page! :-)

 Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] Vintage Frequency Measurement

[Peter Vince]

On 14 February 2017 at 04:23, Raj  wrote:

> I have a Marconi T.F. 643 C, in Megacycles !
>

Ah, a sensible, descriptive name for the unit.  Some of these modern units
really do Hert(z) :-)

 Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] how many seconds out does GPS discipline being to improve Rubidium stability?

[Peter Vince]

Surely you just loop it through two counters using a T-piece, with those
counters set to high impedance input, then only terminate the final one?

 Peter


On 12 February 2017 at 18:16, gkk gb  wrote:

> That is an interesting suggestion (thanks), and would indeed work for me
> if it is possible to split the DUT signal into 3 signals in a such a way
> that wouldn't affect measurements for ADEV, TDEV, MTIE. But I'm thinking
> anything active would introduce it's own noise into the signal and change
> the data. Has this technique been used to success in the past?
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Manual for Ashtech Ranger Z-12?

[Peter Vince]

Hi Brooke,

 There is a 16.5 Mbyte manual for the desktop model on:

http://ashgps.com/mirror/master/Z12-Type%20Receivers/Manuals/z12.pdf

...don't know how different the portable "Ranger" model is.

 Peter



On 8 February 2017 at 19:00, Brooke Clarke  wrote:

> Hi:
>
> I just got an Ashtech Ranger Z12 and am looking for a manual.
> It appears to be a field portable version of the rack mount Z12.
>
> Brooke Clarke
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap second - MSF time signal

[Peter Vince]

Hmmm, yes, you're absolutely right.  Now I'm confused!

 Peter


On 1 January 2017 at 16:21, Deirdre O'Byrne <deirdre@gmail.com> wrote:

> Didn't the DUT1 code change from -0.4s during the minute starting 23:58:00
> to +0.6s during the minute starting 23:59:00?
>
> On 1 January 2017 at 16:06, Peter Vince <petervince1...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Deirdre,
> >
> >  Well done getting such a clear recording!  Yes, the leap-second is
> > effectively inserted after the DUT1 code on MSF as you say, even though
> > that isn't crystal clear from the MSF spec document that David linked to.
> > The DUT1 codes refer to the "current" minute, whilst all the rest of the
> > time and date information refers to the next minute epoch!
> >
> >  Peter
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Leap second - MSF time signal

[Peter Vince]

Hi Deirdre,

 Well done getting such a clear recording!  Yes, the leap-second is
effectively inserted after the DUT1 code on MSF as you say, even though
that isn't crystal clear from the MSF spec document that David linked to.
The DUT1 codes refer to the "current" minute, whilst all the rest of the
time and date information refers to the next minute epoch!

 Peter


On 1 January 2017 at 15:01, Deirdre O'Byrne  wrote:

> Your decoded timecode only has 60 data points for the 61-seconds of the
> last minute of 2016 UTC, so it's impossible to say what your decoder did
> with the leap second. (Also I think you have an error in your parity bit
> for the time for midnight (bit 57B)).
>
> The long wave spectrum seems to show the same fourteen 0.1+0.9-second
> pulses between 23:59:07 and 23:59:20 (inclusive), which tends to suggest
> that the leap second was indeed inserted between the DUT1 code and the Year
> code.
>
> Interestingly the long wave spectrum also shows DCF77 - a project for when
> I get bored! :)
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] HP53132A Firmware Version 4613

[Peter Vince]

On 27 December 2016 at 20:50, Adrian Godwin  wrote:

> How similar are the 131A and the 132A ? Is it possible to upgrade a 131
> into  132 ?


The one big difference I know of (there must be others) is that the 131A
"only" has a time resolution of 500ps, whereas on the 132A it is 150ps.

 Peter
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[time-nuts] Could computers represent the timestamp differently?

[Peter Vince]

It seems to me that the major problem with the leap-second is the inability
of current computer operating systems to represent it, and this is due to
their using a second count since 1970 rather than writing it out as we
would by hand.  While it doubtless made sense in the days of floppy discs
to squeeze tha date and time into a single 4-byte number, with modern
communication speeds and storage media capacities, that no longer seems to
be a requirement.  The (numerical) date and time could be packed into 24
ASCII characters, 12 if BCD was used.  Would it not make sense now for the
next generation of operating systems to do that?  Yes, those who need to
find the elapsed time between two time-stamps would still have a problem,
but isn't the overwhelming major requirement just to represent the
date/time, and be able to easily show if one timestamp is before or after
another?

Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] OT: 4-way amplfied GPS splitter wanted - UK source?

[Peter Vince]

Hi David,

 Yes, I have one you can have - I'll contact you off list.

  Regards,

   Peter  (Surrey)


On 12 December 2016 at 15:29, David J Taylor 
wrote:

> Perhaps this is not too off-topic for the moderators?
>
> I'm looking for a 4-way (or more) amplified GPS splitter, with N-type
> connections.  Yes, I can see some on eBay but they all seem to be US
> sourced with rather large postage charges.  I'm wondering whether anyone in
> the UK might have one for sale?  It's for my Rapco 1804M which, like a lot
> of the older kit, isn't very sensitive so a passive splitter would likely
> lose too much signal.
>
>  http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/Rapco-1804M-notes.html
>
> Thanks,
> David
> --
> SatSignal Software - Quality software written to your requirements
> Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
> Email: david-tay...@blueyonder.co.uk
> Twitter: @gm8arv
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Re: [time-nuts] New Timestamping / Time Interval Counter: the TICC

[Peter Vince]

Fantastic John - well done!  Yes, I'll definitely put an order in as soon
as possible.

 Regards,

 Peter  (G8ZZR, London)
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Re: [time-nuts] 53132 replacement fan

[Peter Vince]

Hi John,

 I have a copy of the Agilent 53132 components list from 2007, but it
seems to only cover the circuit boards :-(  Anyway, for what its worth, I
have put it in my dropbox as it is a 3.2 megabyte PDF - see:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9qd42g6qr5cnhx/HP53132A%20Components%205989-6308EN.pdf?dl=0

I have also put a similar file for the 53131:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgp9z9vmmbruelg/HP53131A%20Components%205989-6307EN.pdf?dl=0

  Regards,

Peter


On 20 November 2016 at 19:14, John Ackermann N8UR  wrote:

> Does anyone have a part number for the 53132 fan (or equivalent)?  Mine is
> getting pretty noisy.
>
> Thanks!
> John
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[time-nuts] Excel logarithmic function (was Thermal impact on OCXO)

[Peter Vince]

Hello Lars,

Just out of curiosity I yesterday put just the first thirty days (like in
> the pdf mentioned below) and let Excel calculate the logarithmic function.
> If I extrapolate that to 10 years it seems that the drift would be
> 6E-13/day but as can be seen in the aging graph it was more like ten times
> higher.
>

I'm not very good with Excel, but this curve-fitting function sounds very
useful.  Could you please tell me how it's done?

 Thank you,

  Peter
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Re: [time-nuts] quartz drift rates, linear or log

[Peter Vince]

Hi Tom,

 Fascinating when you've done that linear fit - many of the plots now
look very similar, suggesting environmental conditions?  From that it would
now be nice to log temperature, pressure, humidity, (& mains voltage?), and
see if there is any correlation there.

 Wonderful to see plots of such a large group - well done!

  Peter


On 13 November 2016 at 13:05, Tom Van Baak  wrote:

> ...
> But, when you apply a 10-day linear fit to each DUT, you get a new plot.
> Attached. Also at:
>
> http://leapsecond.com/pages/tbolt/TBolt-10day-fit1-e10.gif
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Re: [time-nuts] Satellite TV messed up, how is GPS time

[Peter Vince]

Sorry Don, I beg to differ.  The effects are often not noticeable in these
days of digital television, but the noise-floor can definitely be seen to
rise dramatically on a spectrum analyser.

 Regards  (ex BBC TV, London)


On 4 November 2016 at 21:51, Don Murray via time-nuts 
wrote:

> DirecTV and DishNetwork are on Ku-Band platforms.
> Ku-Band is not affected by sun outage.
>
> Don
> W4WJ
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Satellite TV messed up, how is GPS time

[Peter Vince]

I don't think so Paul.  That happens about the 12th of October in London
(51.5° North), a few days later at higher latitudes, and a few days earlier
at lower latitudes.  Cairo, for instance, on about 30° North, was around
the 5th of October.

 Peter


On 4 November 2016 at 20:52, paul swed  wrote:

> U with respect to direct TV is it the noramal two time per year sun
> outage its about the right time.
> Regards
> Paul.
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Rare HP clock

[Peter Vince]

ebay item no.351861979923

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-HP-H20-115BR-FREQUENCY-DIVIDER-DIGITAL-CLOCK-
STANDARD-VINTAGE-TEST-/351861979923?hash=item51ec9bbb13:g:spMAAOSwpLNX8CsA


On 3 October 2016 at 17:01, KA2WEU--- via time-nuts 
wrote:

> I can not find the item on EBAY , Ulrich
>
>
> In a message dated 10/3/2016 11:51:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> jn6...@gmail.com writes:
>
> According to my -hp- catalogs it was available only in rack-mount  form,
> not
> in a cabinet. That suggests it was being marketed to a specific  small
> group
> so it may indeed have been manufactured in small  quantities.
>
> Jeremy
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Why are PPS pulses so narrow? (was: 53132A triggering)

[Peter Vince]

Thanks guys - interesting answers all!

 Peter


On 17 September 2016 at 18:00, Chris Albertson <albertson.ch...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:44 PM, Peter Vince <petervince1...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Can I ask why PPS pulses are so narrow?  It makes them difficult to see
> on
> > a 'scope, and difficult to detect on a PC.  And, as Bob said, far less
> > obvious if you trigger off the wrong edge.
> >
>
>  None of us can guess the original designer's motivation but...
>
> I think you answered your own question "far less obvious if you trigger off
> the wrong edge.".For most cases, except for time nuts, a few
> microseconds does not matter.  So the GPS PPS works almost as good if you
> invert the signal and trip off the wrong edge.   Yes it makes such a
> mistake hard to find but, I think that was the point.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Chris Albertson
> Redondo Beach, California
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[time-nuts] Why are PPS pulses so narrow? (was: 53132A triggering)

[Peter Vince]

Can I ask why PPS pulses are so narrow?  It makes them difficult to see on
a 'scope, and difficult to detect on a PC.  And, as Bob said, far less
obvious if you trigger off the wrong edge.

 Peter



On 16 September 2016 at 23:55, Bob kb8tq  wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> Most PPS signals these days are very low duty cycle. If you AC couple
them, you can easily be triggering on the wrong edge. With the narrow pulse
it may not be very obvious.
>
> Bob
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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather's Tbolt oscillator auto-tune function

[Peter Vince]

Hi Scott,

 The x-axis is shown in the dark blue text to the right of the big time
display - 60 minutes total, 5 minutes per division.

 Peter

On 14 September 2016 at 03:52, Scott Stobbe 
wrote:

> Pardon my lack of knowledge regarding Lady Heather, what is the x-axis
> scale? I assumed the text line above the plot is the various y-axis scales.
> This is good data. Thanks
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A gps week rollover

[Peter Vince]

That makes sense - thanks guys!

 Peter


On 8 September 2016 at 22:53, Hal Murray  wrote:

>
> petervince1...@gmail.com said:
> > Can I just ask why the Z3801As are  having week roll-over problems now -
> I
> > didn't think it was 2048 weeks since GPS "zero-hour" until late on the
> 6th
> > of April 2019?
>
> It's probably 1024 weeks since a date was built into the firmware.
>
> It's like the year 2000 problem.  If you aren't worried about old people
> and
> I tell you somebody was born in 03, you can assume that's 2003 rather than
> 1903.  For GPS, a handy value for the cutoff is the date the firmware was
> built.  Any date that looks like it is older than the firmware is probably
> off by a rollover.
>
>
> --
> These are my opinions.  I hate spam.
>
>
>
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Re: [time-nuts] Z3801A gps week rollover

[Peter Vince]

Can I just ask why the Z3801As are  having week roll-over problems now - I
didn't think it was 2048 weeks since GPS "zero-hour" until late on the 6th
of April 2019?

Peter
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[time-nuts] Manual for Trimble Placer Gold APU

[Peter Vince]

Does anyone happen to have a user/operations manual for the Trimble Placer
Gold APU unit?  This was used in emergency service vehicles to give
reliable position information, and has inputs from the odometer and reverse
gear select to facilitate position estimation when temporarily out of sight
of GPS satellites.

I have found a sales specification sheet, and an installation manual on the
web, but can't find an ops manual that will describe all the command
sequences etc. that can be performed.

 Thanks, Peter Vince
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[time-nuts] BBC Bush House Patek Phillipe clock system on ebay

[Peter Vince]

On our favourite auction site is the pulse clock system used at the
BBC's old World Service Radio headquarters, Bush House, in London,
including a lot of units with Patek Philippe clocks!  See ebay item
number 140912029728.

I have no connection with this item, just thought some rich member of
the group might be interested in giving it a good, loving home :-)

 TTFN,

  Peter Vince  (London, England)
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Re: [time-nuts] [FMT-nuts] LightSquared is Toast!!

[Peter Vince]

See: 
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/business/media/fcc-bars-airwave-use-for-broadband-plan.html?_r=1scp=3sq=lightsquaredst=cse




On 15 February 2012 14:34, David McClain d...@refined-audiometrics.comwrote:



 Yeaaa! LightSquared GPS-band broadband is gone. Big article on the front
 page of the NYTimes Business section.


 Dr. David McClain, de N7AIG
 d...@refined-audiometrics.com





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[time-nuts] Fwd: [FMT-nuts] LightSquared is Toast!!

[Peter Vince]

An article in Inside GNSS expands on the story..

 http://www.insidegnss.com/node/2951

Peter

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[time-nuts] Info request for some FEI modules

[Peter Vince]

Hello all,

I have acquired some FEI modules that have seen better days, but look
like they might be repairable.  I've looked in the ko4bb and BAMA
manuals archives without success - is there any chance anyone on the
list has any information on these units please?

FE-1050-D Frequency Time Standard
FE-350A Battery Power Supply Module
FE-150A DTF-Module

(Can replies be direct to me please, to save annoying everyone on the list.)

Thank you,

 Peter Vince  (London, England)

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Re: [time-nuts] From Sundials to Atomic Clocks

[Peter Vince]

Hello all,

 I have just scanned the copy I bought from Amazon the other day
(second revised edition, 1999).  It makes quite a large file, so
uploaded it to Flickr - which seems to insist on resizing it!  The
largest size is at:

 http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6156/6163603871_fa6d44a623_b.jpg

but I have higher resolution versions I can email to anyone who wants it.

 Regards,

  Peter


On 19 September 2011 19:07, Azelio Boriani azelio.bori...@screen.it wrote:
 Rob,
 is it possible to scan the asides? The PDF from NIST has the asides too dark
 to be readable (the last one is really difficult/impossible to read).
 Thank you

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Re: [time-nuts] Averaging Location for Position Hold

[Peter Vince]

 I hear that there is a hobby where people photograph these and collect
 the photos.  Seems pointless in the city but many are on mountain
 peaks and other places with good views.  The hobby is more reasonable
 if you find them without using GPS.  The USGS maps are good enough o
 put you within 10 to 20 feet of the BM without using a GPS.

 Chris Albertson
 Redondo Beach, California

In the UK there is a website: http://www.trigpointinguk.com/ that
encourages this hobby.  A trig-point being short for Triangulation
Pillar which are reference points set up by the Ordnance Survey.

Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] fluke.l monitor for Thunderbolt . . . the sagacontinues

[Peter Vince]

But surely it doesn't matter David?  There is nothing critical in
there, it's just a display.  As long as the voltage is within the
processor's operating window, that is surely good enough?

Peter


On 7 July 2011 15:48, David VanHorn d.vanh...@elec-solutions.com wrote:

 Vf is highly dependent on current and temperature.  The processor alone is a 
 very dynamic load.
 I wouldn't trust it in a hobby project, and I can't imagine proposing it for 
 a professional design.

 Without knowing much in details, a bog standard 3.3V regulator is $0.78 at 
 Digikley, in singles.
 L78L33ABZ-AP
 If there are unusual requirements, then that might go up.


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[time-nuts] Fwd: BIPM Annual Report on Time Activities 2010

[Peter Vince]

The following report just released by the BIPM may be of interest.  It
includes a section detailing all standard frequency and time
broadcasts.


-- Forwarded message --

Dear Colleague,

The BIPM Annual Report on Time Activities containing the information
for 2010 is now available on the BIPM website at
http://www.bipm.org/en/scientific/tai/time_ar2010.html


Best regards,

Hawai Konate

BIPM Time Department

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Re: [time-nuts] Fluke PM6681 triggering

[Peter Vince]

Hi Rex,

 You could try asking the guys at Pendulum.  A couple of them came
down a gave a talk at the UK's National Physical Laboratory Time 
Frequency Club meeting a few years ago and were very interesting and
approachable.  It looks like they might have been swallowed by
Spectracom now - see:

http://www.spectracomcorp.com/ProductsServices/TestandMeasurement/tabid/1244/Default.aspx

Peter


On 5 June 2011 05:05, Rex r...@sonic.net wrote:
 I recently picked up a Fluke PM6681 counter (same as a Pendulum CNT-81).
 Looks like a sweet device.
...
 I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this counter and can tell me if
 I have mis-understood the Hold-Off function. Or maybe it has something to do
 with me using Total A-B mode. The Op Manual covers a lot of ground, but it
 isn't the easiest to follow the finesse stuff unless you happen to need to
 do exactly what they are showing in an example.

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Re: [time-nuts] Timecode clock for acution in UK

[Peter Vince]

Thanks for pointing this out David.  I already have a couple, and they
are very nice - even keeping good time (domestically speaking - a
couple of seconds per month!) without the EBU/SMPTE time code
reference.  (Locking to mains frequency (50 or 60Hz) is possible from
a DIL switch on the back panel.

 Peter


On 9 March 2011 10:43, David C. Partridge david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk wrote:
 http://www.go-dove.com/event-15327/By-Order-of-a-Major-International-Television-Network/lot-40/Leitch-PAC5012-Analogue-Timecode-Clock-Reader

 David Partridge

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Re: [time-nuts] Archiving Timing Data

[Peter Vince]

Would a TSB (Tab Separated Value) format be preferable?  Full-stops
and commas are used in numbers as decimal and thousands separators (or
vice versa), so using tab character would avoid any problems with
commas in the actual data (and make it is a bit easier to quickly
eyeball when viewed in a text editor).

Peter  (G8ZZR, London, England)


On 9 January 2011 17:15, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
...
 I doubt very much I'm the only one taking a mountain of timing data and not 
 properly cataloging it. My guess is that maybe  90% of the list members are 
 in the same boat. How about:

 1) A set of not to restrictive data format standards (CSV with a few 
 restrictions ...)
...

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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Wish-list

[Peter Vince]

I echo Bob's thanks to the authors of this invaluable program.

I like to have the satellite path display to the right of the graph
panel, but haven't managed to set the configure file to do that
automatically, and always have to issue the gb and gm commands after
running the program - have I missed something?

I know it has been mentioned before, but I am concerned about the
program apparently using 100% of CPU time.

On my old Toshiba laptop running Windows XP pro (service pack 1), Lady
Heather beta 3.0 will usually self-quit after about ten days :-(  I
have several other logging programs (written in BBC BASIC - see
http://www.cix.co.uk/~rrussell/bbcwin/bbcwin.html) running at the same
time, but it is only LH which I has disappeared when I return after a
couple of weeks.  Sorry this is so vague.

Peter

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[time-nuts] Info required on Oak OCXO

[Peter Vince]

I have acquired on old Oak Frequency Control 10MHx OCXO, but have been
unable to find any info on it, and was wondering if anyone was
familiar with it?  The label on top has the following on it:

   OFC
2940221-2
10.00 MHz
11628-13147
9952

It is a 2 inch by 2 inch by 1 inch unit.  It seems that Vectron have
taken over Oak, and their current models C4710 style A1 and ox-041
type A0 look the same.  However, they have sine and HCMOS versions,
and more importantly, 12 volt or 15 volt versions.  Vectron haven't
answered my query, so I was hoping someone here might have an old Oak
catalogue or data sheet?

 Thank you,

  Peter  (London, England)

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Re: [time-nuts] [qs1r] Looking for good, cheap, external reference

[Peter Vince]

Hello Lester,

 To expand on Bob's message a little, do you need medium to
long-term accuracy (for a frequency counter reference for example), or
something that is both accurate AND has low phase noise, suitable for
multiplying up to GigaHertz, say, for communications?  Particularly if
the latter, does the absolute frequency have to be accurate, or would
a knowledge of the offset be adequate?  If the latter, you could use a
nice quiet OCXO, and use John's suggested Thunderbolt as a reference
to your counter to determine the error.

 In any case, for private use there is no need to spend anything
like $8000, lots of Rubidiums can be found on ebay for under a tenth
of that. There is a lot of experience on this list with the
Thunderbolt GPSDOs mentioned by John, and the complete kits offered on
ebay make it an easy way to get an excellent reference.

 John, unless I am going mad, the ADEV plots for both auctions you
mentioned look the same - maybe the bad one has been replaced since
you posted your message?

 Regards,

  Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB controllers

[Peter Vince]

 ...I'm on the right path (I think) with measuring time but
 it seems to lead to insanity.  Is this correct?

 73 Brice KA8MAV

You've bought a lab-coat to wear around the house, and you're asking
that?  I think you're already there.  Welcome to the mad house :-))

Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] 5350A versus 53131A

[Peter Vince]

Bonjour Loïc,

 I am very happy with the 53131 and 53132 that I have (the latter
have 150ps resolution, as opposed to the 500ps resolution of the
'131). As well as a GPIB port, they also have a simple D9 serial port,
and can very easily be configured to output each reading down the
serial port, for easy viewing using something like Hyperterm (in
Windows), and subsequent capture to file for later analysis.  Expect
to pay up to €1000 for these.  They do, however, have a small fan that
runs all the time.  This can be slightly irritating in a quiet home
environment, but is lost in the noise of the air-conditioning at work
:-)

 Regards,

  Peter (London, England)


On 2 August 2010 13:42, Loïc MOREAU loic.mor...@eai.fr wrote:
 In order to compare different frequency sources i am in the process to 
 acquire old Agilent gear, i am looking to different directions   5350A 
 counter or more modern 53131A the prices are nearly equals and I prefer more 
 recent equipment so I somebody can give me an advice to look further on 5350A 
  it will be appreciated.

 The 225 Mhz frequency limit of the 53131 is not a problem as some equipment 
 are equipped with a 3 Ghz option and it will be possible to construct/buy a 
 prescaler.

 regards
 Loïc

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Re: [time-nuts] Basic question regarding comparing two frequencies

[Peter Vince]

Sorry Bert, I don't follow the last part about the 100Hz - can you
explain further please?  (and is that 100.00 or 100.01 Hz?)

 Peter


On 26 July 2010 14:27,  ewkeh...@aol.com wrote:
 Hi,
  ten years ago not having a super counter I copied the input circuit  of
 the Austron 2110 that using an XOR gate mixes 5 MHz with 500 Hz getting
 5.0005 MHz. It is devided down to 1.0001 Mhz which in turn is mixed in 74 HC 
 74
 D F/F giving 100 Hz, that most counters are able to count at high
 resolution.  Still use it today. May be a time-nuts project.
 Bert Kehren

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Re: [time-nuts] Pictic II boards are here !

[Peter Vince]

Morning Stanley,

 Good news!  As I mentioned before, I am happy to act as a UK Post
Office if youl'd like to send all the UK-bound boards to me.  I am
collaborating with Ian Muir in Wales (Time Nut member Gonzo) on this
project, so between us we would like five boards please.  If you can
let me know the final cost, including postage over the big pond, I'll
get PayPal to do their thing.

 Can you please tell me what size the boards are, then I can get
some appropriate padded bags for onward despatch.

 TTFN,

  Peter Vince  (England)


On 20 July 2010 23:08, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Paypal to stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com  . Yes I still have extra boards.

 Stanley

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Re: [time-nuts] Lab Test Equipment

[Peter Vince]

Hello, and welcome to the group, and what I find an endlessly
fascinating subject.

Said's suggestion of using a 'scope is fine, but is mind-numbingly
tedious (I've done it!)  I think you need a frequency counter/timer
whose readings can be output to a computer for subsequent analysis.
There are lots to choose from, but I use some old HP (now Agilent)
53131 and 53132 counters.  These have a very simple serial port that
spits out the data for easy reading by any terminal emulator program.
You can then go away and leave the system logging the results, and
come back days or weeks later to analyse it.  Analysis is a big
subject, and pretty much the gold standard is Bill Wriley's Stable32
(http://www.wriley.com/)

I don't think you need NIST calibrated equipment.  Even if you had
something, it would drift eventually - and likely quite soon for
measuring rubidiums.  Far better, I believe, to get yourself a GPS
disciplined oscillator.  Short term, its timing will be a bit noisy,
but long term it is locked to the ultimate references.  Many in this
group have a Trimble Thunderbolt which are readily available on ebay.
See, for example, ebay item number 290308733659, which is a complete
kit of Thunderbolt, power supply, and antenna, being sold by Bob Mokia
(ebay seller fluke.l) - another time-nut in China.

 Peter


On 20 July 2010 05:54, Heathkid heath...@heathkid.com wrote:
 Hello.  I'm new to this list but have 3 Rb standards and am looking at
 measuring time (or drift between them).  What is the most important piece of
 NIST calibrated test equipment I need to own?  Is 3 enough using two Rb
 standards as a reference/control group (considering the 3rd can vote before
 being exposed to experiments)?

 Thanks...

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Re: [time-nuts] surface mount (was PICTIC II Parts from Mouser)

[Peter Vince]

On 20 July 2010 18:51, Chuck Harris cfhar...@erols.com wrote:

 ...I use the little finger on my tweezers hand
 as a balance point for my hand.  Just the act of having it touch the
 stage, or board removes all of the jitter.


If only our 1PPS signals had a little finger that could rest somewhere :-)

Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] PICTIC Backend

[Peter Vince]

Hi Stanley,

 You might also like to consider BBC BASIC for Windows
(http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/bbcwin/bbcwin.html), developed from the
language written for the Acorn BBC Micro in the early 80's, the
author, Richard Russell, is actively maintaining and enhancing it, and
supports a Yahoo Group where discussions and advice are shared
(http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/bb4w/).  It is priced in UK
pounds, but equates to about US$40 for the full version, or a free
version is also available for trials that is limited to 8 Kbytes
program size, and doesn't allow compilation.

 Regards,

  Peter


On 10 July 2010 19:47, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote:
 A terminal emulator like PuTTY is a good starting point to talk to PICTIC. 
 But I
 was thinking of a GUI that would appear like a virtual instrument. Buttons
 instead of the @ commands, display of various settings and data. My language 
 of
 choice is Basic looking at Just Basic now. Wonder if anyone else is thinking
 about this ?

 Stanley

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Re: [time-nuts] Loran-C Anthorn

[Peter Vince]

Hello Antonio,

 Looking at the aerial photographs on Google Maps, the transmitter
building can be seen at 54.91224°N, 3.27831°W - nearer Cardurnock than
Anthorn!  Which are the actual aerial masts though, I don't know.
Might I suggest you contact Peter Whibberley at the National Physical
Laboratory (peter.whibberley (at) npl . co . uk) - if he can't tell
you, he will certainly know who can!

 Regards,

  Peter Vince



On 12 July 2010 00:40,  asma...@fc.up.pt wrote:
 Greetings to the group.

 I would like to have the exact (and trustworthy...) WGS84 coordinates
 of the Anthorn Loran-C antenna. Searching the net I got at least three
 different sets of LAT/LONG. It seems to me that exactitude is not a cult
 anymore, except for us the nutties...

 I would also appreciate to have the exact Coding Delay for that transmitter.
 (Not the Emission Delay, which is known to be 27,300.00 uS).

 Thanks in advance.

 Antonio
 CT1TE


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[time-nuts] 74AC175PC availability

[Peter Vince]

Previous commentators have reported a shortage of this part, but a
quick Google brought up Quest Components in Industry, California, who
supposedly have over 2000 in stock (http://tinyurl.com/2wxk6lh).  I've
not tried ordering from them as I'm on the other side of the Atlantic,
perhaps a member living a bit closer could try and report any success.

 Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] GPS Timing Source -- looking at buying

[Peter Vince]

Hal (and everyone)

 In television and radio broadcasting we use a time code that is a
Manchester-encoded 2000 bps (50 Hz countries) or 2400 bps (60 Hz
countries) signal which has been low-pass filtered (~7.5 KHz) so that
it can be directly recorded on an analogue audio track.  EBU is the
European Broadcasting Union, who collaborated with the US SMPTE
(Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers) to come up with
a common standard.  The subtle difference between EBU and SMPTE
variants is that the latter is usually drop-frame so that a count of
29.97 Hz NTSC frames better keeps track of real time.  Google SMPTE
time code for thousands of pages that will tell you more than you
ever wanted to know :-)

 TTFN,

   Peter (London, England)


On 9 July 2010 02:26, Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net wrote:
 EBU Timecode in LTC format (audio timecode)

 The NTP source code package includes a utility to make audio time codes.
 Look for tg2.c.  I don't know what EBU is, but that code might be a good
 place to start.

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Re: [time-nuts] Long period variation of GPS PPS timing?

[Peter Vince]

On 2 July 2010 09:05, Paul Nicholson vlf0...@abelian.org wrote:
...
 Well now, this sure looks to me like a GPS effect.
 I think I'd better order another GPS, a different type,
 maybe a GlobalSat MR-350P, or something, for comparison.
 Recommendations?


Hello again Paul,

 I have just received an ebay notification of new items for sale
by a favourite seller - list member Bob Mokai, aka fluke.l in China:

Item title:  Motorola ONCORE M12+T  timing gps receiver 1pps 100hz
Item URL: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=300440087936
Current Bid:  US $0.01(0 Bids)
Shipping:  +US $8.00
End time:  10-Jul-10 02:28:42 BST

Item title:  Rockwell jupiter GPS Module Tu30 GPS 1pps 10khz
Item URL: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=300440087641
Current Bid:   US $0.01(0 Bids)
Shipping:  +US $8.00
End time:  10-Jul-10 02:27:01 BST


These are a couple of the common GPS receiver boards in use by
members, so plenty of documentation and experience is available.  I
think it is fair to say that several list members have bought things
from Bob, and found him friendly, helpful, and very trustworthy.

As another correspondent wrote, a Thunderbolt would be a quick plug
'n' play solution, but either of these GPS modules would replace your
GPS16 somewhat more cheaply.

 TTFN,

  Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] Yet another GPSDO - locking to 10MHz

[Peter Vince]

Hi Murray,

 Why did you use such a large division factor - or any for that
matter?  Could you not just have used a PLL with very long time
constant running at 10 MHz?

 Peter


On 27 June 2010 20:14, Murray Greenman murray.green...@rakon.com wrote:
 I have a design which locks a high performance 10MHz OCXO to a 10MHz
 source which should work equally well with the LEA5, or any source of 5
 or 10MHz.

 I designed it for use with a distributed factory GPS reference which has
 picked up noise, hum and phase modulation, in order to deliver a high
 quality but GPS locked reference direct to equipment. The design adds
 nearly three orders of improvement.

 Essentially it divides the incoming 10MHz by 16384 and compared the
 phase with a similar division from the OCXO, within an ATTiny2313 micro.
 The phase detector is a D-flip-flop type implemented in software (in
 interrupts), and it delivers a locked reference with ADev around 10e-12
 for Tau between 1s and 20s. The micro also keeps a real time clock and
 does various background monitoring and telemetry tasks. There is PC
 monitoring software as well. There are only four chips in the design.
 While I can't share the code (belongs to my employer), the idea is
 simple enough and I could share the schematic.

 Eight of these units have been built. I used the excellent Rakon
 STP2402E OCXO.


 Regards,
 Murray Greenman ZL1BPU

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Re: [time-nuts] Pic programing for the PICTIC II

[Peter Vince]

On 2 July 2010 16:37, Stanley Reynolds stanley_reyno...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Better ?
 How many16f688s are we talking here?

 My thinking is less than 10 as only two people have asked.
 Don't know how many have not asked.

 Thanks

 snip

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Re: [time-nuts] Pic programing for the PICTIC II

[Peter Vince]

Apologies for the previous incomplete message - somehow my laptop
trackpad jumped the cursor over the send button :-(

 Better ?
 How many16f688s are we talking here?

 My thinking is less than 10 as only two people have asked.
 Don't know how many have not asked.

I would also like a pre-programmed PIC please, if someone can arrange
that.  Or ideally, a complete kit of parts, but as the previous
correspondent has written, I appreciate that is a lot of work.

Thanks,

 Peter Vince  (London, England)

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Re: [time-nuts] Long period variation of GPS PPS timing?

[Peter Vince]

Hi Paul,

 Others on this list will reply more authoritatively, but I don't
believe that cyclic variability is GPS - I've not noticed such a thing
on any of the systems I monitor.  Can you carefully monitor
temperature and PSU voltage, and maybe find a correlation there?

 Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

[Peter Vince]

Have you played with the damping factor Brian?

Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt test results

[Peter Vince]

HI Bob,

 10 nanoseconds at the bottom, up to 10 microseconds at the top,
in three logarithmic sections.

Donal: Is the time-constant at its default of 100 seconds, and was the
above plot taken shortly after turning it on?  There has been lots of
talk on here about tweaking the performance.  Increasing the
time-constant to between 500 and 1000 seconds should help, as will
stabilising the environmental temperature.  Let it run for a few
weeks, and the oscillator will settle down, and you should get some
better results.

 TTFN,

  Peter


On 11 June 2010 14:20, Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote:
 Hi

 The vertical axis on the plot is pretty tough to read. What is the scale?

 Bob

 On Jun 11, 2010, at 8:43 AM, Donal G wrote:

 Hi Guys,

 I bought a Thunderbolt device recently.  I have done some
 10Mhz frequency tests in comparison to a Cesium reference.
 Attached is MTIE plot.  Have any of you done similar tests? any comment on
 my results?, is this normal operation when locked to the GPS?  I was
 expecting better results that this!

 Thanks
 Donal
 TBOLT -MTIE-small.JPG___
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Re: [time-nuts] What time is it anyway?

[Peter Vince]

I think that is the BIPM (http://www.bipm.org/en/home/) in association
with the IERS (http://hpiers.obspm.fr/)

Peter


On 28 March 2010 10:29, Steve Rooke sar10...@gmail.com wrote:
 What puzzles me is who is the keeper of legal time for the other
 93.4% of land mass and 95.5% of population of the World other than the
 US.

 On 28 March 2010 04:49, David Forbes dfor...@dakotacom.net wrote:
 At 11:11 AM -0400 3/27/10, Bob Camp wrote:

 I would bet that if you went deep enough into the details, that the Army
 at some point was less than enthusiastic about having to ask the Navy when
 ever they wanted to know what time it was.

 My guess is that the Army just asked Western Union, who asked the Navy.

 --

 --David Forbes, Tucson, AZ
 http://www.cathodecorner.com/


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 --
 Steve Rooke - ZL3TUV  G8KVD
 A man with one clock knows what time it is;
 A man with two clocks is never quite sure.

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Re: [time-nuts] Making a HP 10811 better

[Peter Vince]

Warren,

 If you turn over an oscillator, is the frequency change
completely reversible (to your under 1e-12 resolution) when it is
restored?  Thinking aloud, if an hour-glass is turned over twice, the
final level will be the same, but the grains will be mixed.  A quartz
crystal, however, is solid, so hopefully nothing actually moves.
Presumably the zero-G axis is with the axis of oscillation at 90
degrees to gravity?

 Peter (the other one :-)



 Another thing I use it for is to test high resolution Freq meters.
 Using a calibrated wedge that I can then slide under one edge of the zero-G
 Osc box, I can
 make small, variable, repeatable, freq changes of under 1e-12 resolution,
 something pretty hard to do otherwise.
 If I want to make BIG changes like 1e-10, I can rotate the box on any of its
 sides and still use the wedge,
 and for a quick check of new equipment, I just turn the box over which then
 gives a couple of parts in 1e-9 freq change.
 It makes a weird but simple and indispensable variable freq source that is
 useful for many things, such as checking the LOOP TC of a TBolt.

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Re: [time-nuts] Choke Ring Design for L1

[Peter Vince]

As I understand it, the GPS signals are circularly polarised, and so
surely reflections will reverse the sense of that polarisation such
that the antenna will be insensitive to them?  Maybe Warren's simple
pie dish is working by shielding the antenna from the true MULTI-path
reflections, and any direct SINGLE reflections it produces are ignored
due to the polarisation reversal?

 Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] Thunderbolt antenna?

[Peter Vince]

That's a dramatic and impressive difference Mark!  Were the other
choke-rings similarly better than the ordinary conical, or was this
one heads and shoulders better than the rest?  I was just wondering if
it was the choke-ring concept that gave the major improvement, with
this one just being slightly better executed?

 Regards,

  Peter Vince  (London, England)


On 13 March 2010 02:52, Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Yep,  it's a standard choke ring antenna.  It's optimized for L1 freqs.   
 Leica also rebranded and sold it.

 I have tested 6 different choke ring and geodetic grade antennas.  This one 
 works the best of the bunch (at least for me).   With my 48 hour precision 
 survey code,  I got results within an inch or so of the true location.   VERY 
 impressive.  Most of the other geodetic quality antennas were in the 4-6 inch 
 range.

 Attached are two plots of the fixes produced by each antenna.  The first is a 
 Symmeticom conical timing antenna.  The other is the choke ring antenna.


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Re: [time-nuts] 1PPS correction from HP58534A GPS Timing Antenna

[Peter Vince]

Hello Don,

 The sawtooth is caused by the receiver's local oscillator not
being locked to the GPS signal, and thus the 1PPS pulse, which is
derived from the nearest available edge on that oscillator, cannot be
exactly correct.  Adjusting the antenna delay just wouldn't work
because of that.  I believe you either have to use a programmable
delay line (but there are problems with linearity and temperature
coefficient if you are striving for absolute accuracy), or output the
predicted timing error to your monitoring PC so that it can subtract
it from the output of your counter.

 Peter


On 18 February 2010 05:02, Don Mimlitch donm...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I have been working with a HP58534A GPS Timing Antenna which outputs extended 
 NMEA sentences including a custom sentence which specifies the Timing Error 
 of the NEXT 1PPS Pulse as a number between +00 and +85 Nanoseconds. I am 
 wondering whether using a PIC to correct each 1PPS pulse using this sentence 
 would be worthwhile to clean up the saw tooth in the 1PPS and if so what 
 would be the best way to correct each 1PPS.

 One solution might be to send the receiver the custom NMEA sentence which 
 lets me set the antenna delay +/-nn Nanoseconds. I would use the timing 
 error plus the actual cable delay to calculate the nanosecond delay to use 
 for the next pulse and send the cable delay sentence to the receiver before 
 the next 1PPS pulse. I have at least 100ms to send this message at 9600 baud 
 before the specified pulse arrives. This should be sufficient time assuming 
 the receiver acts on the message immediately.

 A second approach would be to use a programmable delay line (about $14 from 
 jameco) to correct the the 1PPS by 85ns - Timing Error from message. I would 
 set the cable delay to 85ns more then the actual cable delay to bring the 
 85ns in the delay line calculation.

 I'm sure all the timenuts will have better or simpler solutions to this 
 concept and many different views on whether it is worthwhile to do.




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Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

[Peter Vince]

Hi Robert,

 I put a dual-colour (red-green) LED in a BNC plug for just this
sort of purpose.  No series resistor - the 50-ohm source impedance
limits the current nicely.  With dual-colour, I can see both positive
and negative pulses.  100ms pulses are perfect, 10ms OK, 1ms are very
dim, but there is no chance of seeing the 10us pulses from the
Thunderbolt.

 As others have said, I set the (analogue Tek 2445) 'scope to
10us/div, 2 volt/div, 50 ohms, DC positive edge trigger, and waggle
the trigger level.  The display is dim, but visible.  A slightly
slower scan would narrow and brighten the pulse on a tired tube.

 TTFN,

  Peter


On 8 February 2010 15:15, Robert Darlington rdarling...@gmail.com wrote:
 Try hooking the output to an LED.  It's very difficult for me to see the
 pulse on my analog scopes but there is no arguing with the blinking light.

 -Bob

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Re: [time-nuts] lpro schematics

[Peter Vince]

Hello Alfredo - see Didier Juges' manuals page:

http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/Datum/LPRO

Regards,

 Peter


2010/1/13 Dott. Alfredo Rosati alfredoros...@alice.it:
 I am looking for schematics LPRO-101.
 I would replace the original  internal  TCXO, low quality , with a OCXO. I
 would try if with OCXO will be a better time base for driving microwave
 instruments.
 regards Alfredo i5uxj

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Re: [time-nuts] Lady Heather Software

[Peter Vince]

Latest official version (2.0) can be downloaded via

http://www.thegleam.com/ke5fx/heather/readme.htm

The 3.0 beta version is at

http://www.ke5fx.com/heather/beta.exe




2010/1/12 Richard W. Solomon w1...@earthlink.net:
 Where will I find the latest version ?

 Thanks, Dick, W1KSZ

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Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB Controllers on sale at SparkFun

[Peter Vince]

I have recently discovered that SparkFun do a USB Weather Board, which
has sensors for temperature, pressure, humidity, and light.  see:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8311

Priced at $124.95, I have ordered one already (pity I didn't know
about the discount day earlier!) with the idea of seeing if there is
any obvious correlation between Thunderbolt EFC values and humidity
and pressure.

Regards,

 Peter (London, England)



2010/1/5 Prologix supp...@prologix.biz:
 Hello all,

 One of our distributors - SparkFun Electronics - is having a free day sale 
 on Jan 7, 2010. The first 1000  orders placed between 9AM and 11PM (Mountain 
 Time) on January 7, 2010 get a $100 discount.

 You can find complete details at 
 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/news.php?id=305

 Prologix GPIB Controllers are listed at:
 GPIB-USB - http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=549

 GPIB-ETHERNET - 
 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8841

 [Note: All SparkFun products will be on sale, not just Prologix controllers.]

 Regards,
 Abdul

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Re: [time-nuts] Subject: [OT] short run cable assembly vendor?

[Peter Vince]

Mary, the owner of ebay store QualityChinaGoods, had some RF pigtails
for sale, but with the wrong connector on one end for my use.  She
very helpfully made up a small batch to match my needs, and put up a
special Buy-It-Now auction for me.

Peter Vince  (G8ZZR, London, England)

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Re: [time-nuts] Timenoob - Cheap and simple 10MHz reference

[Peter Vince]

Semiconductorstore.com also have the CW25-TIM at a cheaper price ($64
vs $89) and it is more sensitive, so can possibly work indoors.  They
both, apparently, use the same NavSync chips, so does the '25 have
disadvantages I haven't spotted?

 Peter


2009/12/28 Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net:

 Does the factory sell direct in small quantities ?

 From here (California), googling for Navsync CW12-TIM finds:
 http://www.semiconductorstore.com/pages/asp/supplier.asp?pl=0138gclid=CL_G5ar
 W-Z4CFU1M5Qod1XNWLA
 (Sorry for the line wrap.)

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Re: [time-nuts] Can a quartz crystal go off by 2% ?

[Peter Vince]

Hi Rob,

 Actually they are controlled from a low bit-rate signal
phase-modulated onto Radio-4 long-wave (198KHz).  If you have an SSB
or CW receiver that tunes down to that frequency, switch on the BFO
and look at the output on something like Spectrum Lab, and the phase
modulation is readily seen!

 TTFN,  Peter


2009/12/29 Rob Kimberley r...@timing-consultants.com:
 AFIK a lot of the clocks were radio controlled from MSF Rugby (now Anthorn,
 Cumbria). You would need to have some sort of automated system to
 accommodate daylight savings switchovers in Spring and Autumn. That said, I
 would have thought once synchronised, they would tick off the 50 Hz
 supply.

 Rob Kimberley

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Re: [time-nuts] chip scale atomic clock

[Peter Vince]

2009/12/26 Robert Lutwak lut...@alum.mit.edu:
...
 CSAC is intended for portable battery-powered operation. Surely your
 basement has the space and wallplug power to support an LPRO. (p.s. don't
 cool the damn thing, heat it).
...

Hi Robert,

 Do I understand you are suggesting heating an LPRO, not cooling
it?  That seems to go against what I understood, that greater cooling
leads to increased life.

 As an aside, a newbie question if I may: being so used to Caesium
standards being THE reference, I was surprised to hear that the CSAC
has an aging mechanism - can you say a few words to explain that
please?

  Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] Timenoob - Cheap and simple 10MHz reference

[Peter Vince]

Thanks Ed, yes, I hadn't looked closely enough at the pictures.

The higher sensitivity I mentioned came from the second line of the
Features section near the bottom of:
http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=41599

Enables indoor use -173 dBW acquisition and -185 dBW tracking

although admittedly right underneath that in the Specifications
section is does say:

Track Sensitivity: -155 dBm

A cased of specmanship?

 Peter



2009/12/29 Ed Palmer ed_pal...@sasktel.net:
 The CW-12 consists of the CW-25 mounted on a circuit board with some glue
 logic, connectors, etc.  The CW-25 itself is the surface-mount module in the
 middle of the CW-12.  Compare the pictures - you'll see what I mean.  Both 
 units
 are listed as having a tracking sensitivity of -155 dbm.  I don't know what 
 you
 mean when you say that the CW-25 is more sensitive.

 By the way, the CW-12 works great indoors.  Through a typical wood-frame
 construction I usually get 7 or 8 satellites with a cheap active patch 
 antenna.
 With a VIC-100 timing antenna, I usually have 10 or more satellites.  1 PPS
  performance is also very good.  Multiple measurements of 1000 periods
 shows a standard deviation of 5 ns with a min-max range of  30 ns.  This is
 without sawtooth correction because this unit doesn't support it - even with 
 the
 Motorola software.

 Ed

 - Original Message -
 From: Peter Vince pvi...@theiet.org
 Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:21 am
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Timenoob - Cheap and simple 10MHz reference

 Semiconductorstore.com also have the CW25-TIM at a cheaper price ($64
 vs $89) and it is more sensitive, so can possibly work indoors.  They
 both, apparently, use the same NavSync chips, so does the '25 have
 disadvantages I haven't spotted?

     Peter


 2009/12/28 Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net:
 
  Does the factory sell direct in small quantities ?
 
  From here (California), googling for Navsync CW12-TIM finds:
 
 http://www.semiconductorstore.com/pages/asp/supplier.asp?pl=0138gclid=CL_G5ar
  W-Z4CFU1M5Qod1XNWLA
  (Sorry for the line wrap.)

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Re: [time-nuts] Timenoob - Cheap and simple 10MHz reference

[Peter Vince]

Oh Good Lord - not paying attention to the units!  Sorry guys!

 Peter.

2009/12/29 Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz:
 -185dBW = -155dBm
 so both sensitivity measures are equivalent.

 Bruce

 Peter Vince wrote:

 Thanks Ed, yes, I hadn't looked closely enough at the pictures.

 The higher sensitivity I mentioned came from the second line of the
 Features section near the bottom of:
 http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=41599

 Enables indoor use -173 dBW acquisition and -185 dBW tracking

 although admittedly right underneath that in the Specifications
 section is does say:

 Track Sensitivity: -155 dBm

 A cased of specmanship?

      Peter



 2009/12/29 Ed Palmered_pal...@sasktel.net:


 The CW-12 consists of the CW-25 mounted on a circuit board with some glue
 logic, connectors, etc.  The CW-25 itself is the surface-mount module in
 the
 middle of the CW-12.  Compare the pictures - you'll see what I mean.
  Both units
 are listed as having a tracking sensitivity of -155 dbm.  I don't know
 what you
 mean when you say that the CW-25 is more sensitive.

 By the way, the CW-12 works great indoors.  Through a typical wood-frame
 construction I usually get 7 or 8 satellites with a cheap active patch
 antenna.
 With a VIC-100 timing antenna, I usually have 10 or more satellites.  1
 PPS
  performance is also very good.  Multiple measurements of 1000 periods
 shows a standard deviation of5 ns with a min-max range of  30 ns.  This
 is
 without sawtooth correction because this unit doesn't support it - even
 with the
 Motorola software.

 Ed

 - Original Message -
 From: Peter Vincepvi...@theiet.org
 Date: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 10:21 am
 Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Timenoob - Cheap and simple 10MHz reference



 Semiconductorstore.com also have the CW25-TIM at a cheaper price ($64
 vs $89) and it is more sensitive, so can possibly work indoors.  They
 both, apparently, use the same NavSync chips, so does the '25 have
 disadvantages I haven't spotted?

     Peter


 2009/12/28 Hal Murrayhmur...@megapathdsl.net:




 Does the factory sell direct in small quantities ?


  From here (California), googling forNavsync CW12-TIM  finds:




 http://www.semiconductorstore.com/pages/asp/supplier.asp?pl=0138gclid=CL_G5ar
  W-Z4CFU1M5Qod1XNWLA


 (Sorry for the line wrap.)


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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt Damping setting

[Peter Vince]

 Good points, and You got 4 1/2 out of five correct, Not bad at all.

Ha ha - thank you teacher!

Fairy nuff, yes, your plots show the long-term effects.  I would like
to know what the best time-constant is to use.  I appreciate that
everyone's will be different, depending on individual characteristics
of the Thunderbolts, and also (perhaps more importantly) the aerial
and its position.  However, I think it would be interesting to at
least see the relative differences for one location.  I recently
learnt that our national mapping organisation (The Ordnance Survey)
average the results from their L1/L2 Leica 1200 system receivers, for
two hours.  Is the oscillator in the Leica significantly worse than
that in out Thunderbolts, or could we also benefit from a
time-constant of longer than 1000 seconds?

I will try to find a quiet rubidium, and do some comparisons against
that - the results should, at least, be valid out to a few thousand
seconds.  I also plan to try reducing the signal level threshold (from
the current 4AMU) as recently suggested, and try to see some
quantifiable results.

 TTFN,

  Peter Vince  (G8ZZR, London, England)

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Re: [time-nuts] Tbolt Damping setting

[Peter Vince]

Thank you for your explanation.  Your Lady Heather plot prompts a
couple of questions though:

1) Presumably you created the 40ns phase step by changing the output
timing offset?

2) Presumably, again, the plotted data is from the self reported data
from the Thunderbolt?

I have been running a series of tests myself this year, but on looking
at the results, it became clear - and I should have twigged this
earlier - that all the Thunderbolt can do is report the differences
between itself and the noisy GPS signal.  Whereas what I really wanted
was a comparison to a stable external standard.  Sadly I don't have
TVB's Maser or 5071s, but I suspect that such a comparison would give
a rather different plot.  Tom has talked about these factors on his
page at http://www.LeapSecond.com/pages/tbolt-tc/  just showing MDEV
plots.

Tom: would you have the time to replicate Warren's experiment, but
show the phase and frequency plots with respect to your Maser or 5071?

As an aside, at the beginning of the year when the TAPR offer was on,
it was suggested on here that the time constant be set to that where
the ADEV plot reaches a minimum whilst on holdover.  A couple of days
after turning on, mine was about 700 seconds.  Now, nine months
continuous operation later, and with the Thunderbolt in the
recommended cardboard box to protect from drafts, the plot now reaches
a minimum at about 2500 seconds!

Peter

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Re: [time-nuts] LORAN C simulator operational

[Peter Vince]

Hello Paul,

 I have just been to the British National Physical Laboratory's
bi-annual Time and Frequency meeting in London, and gained the
strong impression that LORAN was far from dead.  Apparently there was
a meeting in Prague recently, with Britain, France, and Norway all
behind eLoran, and Norway apparently has a mutual operability
agreement with Russia for their equivalent (Chayka?).  Certainly the
British transmitter has at least another 8 years to go on their
initial ten-year contract.  Despite recent pessimism on here from some
US members recently, I gained the strong impression today that the
annual $36 million operating cost was frankly such a drop in the ocean
(pardon the pun) that they would likely finance eLoran somehow, if not
by the current means.  And I seem to remember we went around this
scare story last year, and I was confused by the apparent will to
close down Loran-C, but introduce eLoran - as if they were two
different systems, whereas the latter is just an upgrade on the
former.  Could this be politicians and accountants double-talk?

 It was further suggested today that despite the popularity of
GPS-World, www.pnt.org (a US government web site) was likely a more
reliable source of information.  So, don't throw out all your Austron
2100's yet - all is not yet lost!

 Regards,

  Peter Vince  (London, England)

(Can I just clarify: the opinions above are mine, obtained from the
floor of the meeting today, and don't represent the official view of
NPL!)

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Re: [time-nuts] Jupiter GPS Question

[Peter Vince]

Talking of which, I have been wondering if our beloved Thunderbolts
could handle WAAS/EGNOS.  I can't see any way to configure the current
software - doubtless an upgrade would be required, but does the
hardware have the capability? Does anybody have any thoughts?

 TTFN,

   Peter


2009/12/1 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
 David Pritchard wrote:

 Hi,

 I am trying to add DGPS capability to an older Rockwell Jupiter GPS
 module. I have a known good DGPS receiver and have tried to interface it to
 the Jupiter via Serial Port 2 (pin #15). So far, I have had no luck making
 it work. I'm wondering whether I need to tell the Jupiter that I have a
 DGPS unit attached, using the binary commands (which I have no clue how to
 do since I normally use the NMEA mode). Any help would be greatly
 appreciated.

 You should have this document in your hands anyway:
 http://gpsd.berlios.de/vendor-docs/jupiter/MN002000A_JupiterReceiver_DesignerGuide_print.pdf

 Digital protocol, DGPS... well most things.

 Cheers,
 Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] Jupiter GPS Question

[Peter Vince]

Thanks Bjorn - I was afraid of that!

 TTFN,

   Peter


2009/12/2  b...@lysator.liu.se:
 SBAS (WAAS/EGNOS/etc) use L1 carrier frequency and compatible PRN codes,
 but the datamessage goes at a higher rate (200bps (?)) than the normal GPS
 which uses 50 bits per second. This means that most receiver will have
 added dedicated/modified hardware for SBAS signals reception.

 --

   Björn

 Talking of which, I have been wondering if our beloved Thunderbolts
 could handle WAAS/EGNOS.  I can't see any way to configure the current
 software - doubtless an upgrade would be required, but does the
 hardware have the capability? Does anybody have any thoughts?

      TTFN,

            Peter


 2009/12/1 Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org:
 David Pritchard wrote:

 Hi,

 I am trying to add DGPS capability to an older Rockwell Jupiter GPS
 module. I have a known good DGPS receiver and have tried to interface
 it to
 the Jupiter via Serial Port 2 (pin #15). So far, I have had no luck
 making
 it work. I'm wondering whether I need to tell the Jupiter that I have
 a
 DGPS unit attached, using the binary commands (which I have no clue how
 to
 do since I normally use the NMEA mode). Any help would be greatly
 appreciated.

 You should have this document in your hands anyway:
 http://gpsd.berlios.de/vendor-docs/jupiter/MN002000A_JupiterReceiver_DesignerGuide_print.pdf

 Digital protocol, DGPS... well most things.

 Cheers,
 Magnus

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[time-nuts] Who is the recommended seller of manuals?

[Peter Vince]

I have seen mention of a firm that other users have recommended for
supplying printed equipment manuals, but can't remember the name, nor
have I quickly been able to find it in the archives - can someone
remind me please?  (I'm after a manual for an Austron 2055A Phase
Micro Stepper).

 Thanks,

  Peter Vince  (London, England)

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Re: [time-nuts] Who is the recommended seller of manuals?

[Peter Vince]

That was it!  Magic - thanks Robert.

Peter


2009/11/29 Robert Atkinson robert8...@yahoo.co.uk:
 Artek Media
 http://www.artekmedia.com/


 --- On Sun, 29/11/09, Peter Vince pvi...@theiet.org wrote:


 From: Peter Vince pvi...@theiet.org
 Subject: [time-nuts] Who is the recommended seller of manuals?
 To: time-nuts@febo.com
 Date: Sunday, 29 November, 2009, 12:59


 I have seen mention of a firm that other users have recommended for
 supplying printed equipment manuals, but can't remember the name, nor
 have I quickly been able to find it in the archives - can someone
 remind me please?  (I'm after a manual for an Austron 2055A Phase
 Micro Stepper).

      Thanks,

           Peter Vince  (London, England)

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[time-nuts] GPS Jamming Interference in London, February next year

[Peter Vince]

For readers in England, NPL is hosting an event entitled GPS Jamming
 Interference - A Clear and Present Danger at their Teddington (West
London) headquarters on the 23rd of February 2010.  See their web page
at
http://lat.globalwatchonline.com/epicentric_portal/site/lat/events/2010/gps-jamming-interference/?mode=0

Regards,

 Peter Vince

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[time-nuts] LORAN rescued by Congress?

[Peter Vince]

If I read it right, Congress in the USA has overturned the President's
FY2010 statement to keep LORAN going as a backup to GPS.  See:

http://pnt.gov/policy/legislation/bills.shtml#loran

Regards,

Peter Vince

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[time-nuts] Does anyone have an Austron 2055A manual please?

[Peter Vince]

Would anyone have a manual for the Austron 2055A Phase Microstepper
please?  Either a PDF, or a paper manual that they are willing to part
with (I don't have scanning facilities).  Any costs happily
reimbursed.

 Thank you.

  Peter Vince  (G8ZZR, London, England)

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Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680 Frequency Settings

[Peter Vince]

Hi Rob,

 Some information in Didier's manuals archive at:

http://www.ko4bb.com/cgi-bin/manuals.pl?dir=05%29_GPS_Timing/FEI

 TTFN,

  Peter Vince


2009/11/2 Rob Kimberley robinkimber...@btinternet.com:

 Anyone got info on changing frequency of DDS on FE-5680? Would like to
 change a 15 MHz unit to provide 2.048 MHz.

 Had a quick scan of previous posts but can't see anything.

 Thanks.

 Rob Kimberley

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Re: [time-nuts] EU opens up Egnos system for public use

[Peter Vince]

Hi Alberto - have you seen the ESA website describing the system:

 http://www.esa.int/esaNA/egnos.html

Regards,

 Peter


On Fri Oct 16 16:49 , Alberto di Bene dib...@usa.net sent:

Anybody has some more info about this ?

http://tinyurl.com/yjeaodn

Alberto  I2PHD


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Re: [time-nuts] VLF time stations in Europe

[Peter Vince]

Hi Magnus,

 The BBC's Radio 4 signal on 198 KHz should be another contender.  Beware
that it has slow (25Hz?) phase mod that carries commercial data signals.  From
memory, the data packets are 50 bits each, so each spans 2 seconds.  Time is 
sent
leading up to the top of the minute, and other packet(s) are used by the
Electricity industry to switch our domestic off-peak Economy-7 storage heater
systems on and off. But the service was never fully exploited or utilised, and 
so
many packets just carry nulls.  If you beat the signal with a local oscillator,
then view a narrow band waterfall display on a spectrum analyser program, you 
can
see a repeating pattern!

 Peter Vince   (G8ZZR, London)


On Wed Sep 30 20:43 , Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org sent:

Fellow time-nuts,

I am trying to make an overview of VLF time stations that can reach 
Sweden and may be of practical use.

Loran-C at 100 kHz seems obvious.

DCF77 at 77,5 kHz (50 kW in Germany) is known, certainly within range 
(my receiver works without much trouble).

MSF at 60 kHz (17 kW in GB) also works (a friend has working reception).

TDF at 162 kHz (2 MW in France) should reach according to published 
chart, 3500 km range includes all of Sweden.

HBG at 75 kHz (25 kW in Switzerland) may be a little to faint to be 
useable? 1000 km range seems too short. To close down in 2011.

I know of the Russian military Beta signal (20,5 kHz to 25,5 kHz), but 
consider it of less importance in this case. Is received in Norway where 
reverse-engineering has been done.

I also know of Chayka, the Russian equalent of Loran-C. Considering to 
include it.

I assume that signal should be of considerable strength such that 
regular use does not require DX-ing skills and that fairly regular use 
can be made without having to figth wars agains S/N issues.

Can anyone spot an obvious missing signal?

Cheers, Magnus


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Re: [time-nuts] STEL-1173

[Peter Vince]

Hi Magnus,

 I was surprised to read that you had needed help to resolve the problem as,
not to over-inflate your ego, you seem to be very experienced and knowledgable. 
So don't tease us - what was it?

 TTFN,

  Peter Vince  (G8ZZR, London, England)


On Thu Sep 24  1:04 , Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org sent:

Hi Steve,

Steve Swift wrote:
 I found this old note on Time-nuts:
 ---
 Hi!
 
 I need a STEL-1173/CM in order to replace one in a failing unit. Would anyone
 be sitting on a few so that I can help you get them of your hands (I suspect 
 I
 need a little supply of these) while helping a fellow time-nut to get his 
 gear
 into action?
 
 Cheers,
 Magnus
 
 Magnus Danielson cfmd at bredband.net
 Mon Apr 17 07:41:46 EDT 2006
 ---
 Not sure if it still matters, but I have some of these.

I was given one that resolve the issue at hand in a nice way, and got 
that unit up and running again. The old device had failed in a 
particularly nasty fashion that it took some experience from a fellow 
time-nuts to give the hints and only after he gave me one I was able to 
resolve the issue.

However, I still would like to have a few spares. I trust the situation 
may re-occur. So if you like that, then it would be much apprechiated.

We can care about the details off-list.

Cheers,
Magnus

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Re: [time-nuts] More Z3801/Tbolt comparisons

[Peter Vince]

Hi Mark,

 If we are being this careful, I wonder if you should use a SIDEREAL day of
averaging - 236 seconds short of a solar day ?

 TTFN,

  Peter Vince  (G8ZZR, London, England)


On Thu Sep  3 19:40 , Mark Sims hol...@hotmail.com sent:

...
 The next version of Lady Heather will have a very precise self-survey routine.
 It takes data for 48 hours (which has 24 overlapping 24 hour intervals) and
 statistically processes it to get a very precise location.  Typically the 
 error
 is around 1 foot lat/lon,  1 meter altitude (there he goes, mixing measurement
 systems again).  With good antennas in good locations it can get to under 4 
 inches
 of error.  Poor antennas in bad locations might be 2 feet off.



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