Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
It depends what you mean under professional... an individual that pushes buttons for a wage, having no clue about what's actually happening underneath, or an individual that knows his business in, and out? The definition in my book is the second one, and I met many amateurs (aka hobbyists, with a passion for a certain domain, with deep knowledge, but not necessarily their main income source) which outclassed most professionals. If you appreciate more the point and click features to program something rapidly, without any control of the generated code, you're better served with the nicely integrated toys for windumb co. Ever wondered why low latency audio is working nicely on linux (eventually with the appropriate kernel settings, if you intend to load the system heavily), and is such a nightmare on windoze? Or why microsuxx castrated the network bandwidth usage (btw, a very professional solution) when a multimedia application is running under Vista 1, 2 (aka 7), or 3 (aka 8)? On 8/7/2013 12:03 AM, Alberto di Bene wrote: On 8/6/2013 5:12 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: /It depends of it you want to be the kind of ham who understands radios and can build and design them or the kind who would have never remove the cover off his commercial built radio. Linux is the best OS for developers and those who like to build gear. Windows is better for the appliance user crowd./ When I developed Winrad and my other SDR programs, a few years ago, I examined which were the tools available to a serious developer. My conclusion was that under Windows you could find professional tools, geared towards professional developments. What was available under Linux were little more than toys, meant for the hobbyists and the tinkerers. For example, at the time I was unable to find under Linux a development environment with the features and the power of the Embarcadero Rad Studio, which is what I use. This made me to choose Windows as my main platform. 73 Alberto I2PHD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
On 8/7/2013 3:44 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: /These phone now days have quad core 32-bit CPUs and GPUs that can be tapped for compting power for thing like FFTs and other DSP./ Much less is needed... next September it will be released a new SDR that runs on an ARM Cortex M4F, single core, that does not need a PC to work. And on that ARM there will be no Linux nor Windows... programming just to the bare metal... FFTs are done, fast convolutions, spectrum and waterfall computations, FIR filters, etc. etc.And barely 50% of the CPU power is used 73 Alberto I2PHD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question...
Chris and all, It seems to me that a lot of the new software is being developed by people who don't live in the real world or don't use the end product in the real world - or maybe not at all. Maybe I'm just old and senile, but a lot of the stuff I'm seeing is not intuitive, stable or even consistent. Is the State of The Art exceeding the state of the need? Burt, K6OQK From: Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question Funny that those toys that come with Linux pretty much run the entire Internet and every Android phone and almost every TV set top box and firewall/router. But in the end as a developer you either follow the market and the dollar or you do what your boss pays you to do. What tools are needed anyway but a few terminal windows and a text editor? Anyways the hot market now if you are chasing the dollar and customers is phone apps. That is what users want and that is who the companies are hiring. I'd really like to see SDR move to phones and tablets. It would make them even more portable. These phone now days have quad core 32-bit CPUs and GPUs that can be tapped for compting power for thing like FFTs and other DSP. As for development tools, there is no shortage. We also need some new ideas. So muct SDR software tries to emulate a 1980's radio. Burt I. Weiner Associates Broadcast Technical Services Glendale, California U.S.A. b...@att.net www.biwa.cc K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question...
Got some examples? Without specific you risk sounding like some old guy says to days music is no good the old stuff was better Which of course was every year for the last three hundred years. But it could be that much software is poorly designed. It is so easy now to write something and publish it so many people do and the markethas to decide what's good and not. But you can't talk about generalities. So which specific software don't you like. One thing about Open Source SDR software, if you don't like it, you can change it. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Chris and all, It seems to me that a lot of the new software is being developed by people who don't live in the real world or don't use the end product in the real world - or maybe not at all. Maybe I'm just old and senile, but a lot of the stuff I'm seeing is not intuitive, stable or even consistent. Is the State of The Art exceeding the state of the need? Burt, K6OQK -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question...
The trend to add more and more fearures to electronic gadgets is a real pain, IMO. I have a Garmin Nuvi and you basically have to do a royal flush of every stored parameter to simply clear the 'trail of bread crumbs'. The thing has so many modes that it is really annoying to use and there seems to be no way of turning unwanted features off. For example, if you simply want to pan the display, likely as not the address of where you touched will pop up. Furthermore, the positions are not reliable. If you are close too, but not on, a road, or are on the sidewalk going against traffic, like AutoCAD it will 'snap' to where it thinks you should be. Off road mode is better. YMMV, -John === Got some examples? Without specific you risk sounding like some old guy says to days music is no good the old stuff was better Which of course was every year for the last three hundred years. But it could be that much software is poorly designed. It is so easy now to write something and publish it so many people do and the markethas to decide what's good and not. But you can't talk about generalities. So which specific software don't you like. One thing about Open Source SDR software, if you don't like it, you can change it. On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 8:25 AM, Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net wrote: Chris and all, It seems to me that a lot of the new software is being developed by people who don't live in the real world or don't use the end product in the real world - or maybe not at all. Maybe I'm just old and senile, but a lot of the stuff I'm seeing is not intuitive, stable or even consistent. Is the State of The Art exceeding the state of the need? Burt, K6OQK -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Much less is needed... next September it will be released a new SDR that runs on an ARM Cortex M4F, single core, that does not need a PC to work. And on that ARM there will be no Linux nor Windows... programming just to the bare metal... FFTs are done, fast convolutions, spectrum and waterfall computations, FIR filters, etc. etc.And barely 50% of the CPU power is used 73 Alberto I2PHD Hi Alberto, can you say which SDR software this is? I have a TI TIVA board that is M4F based and am wondering if this new SDR code will support boards like this. Russ K0WFS ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question... (Burt I. Weiner)
I don't think the state of the art is exceeding the need. Because by nature that is part of what ham radio is. Experimentation is part of the game. Nothing wrong with appliance operators, if one chooses to be that. There are plenty of appliance radios out there. SDR just may not be there yet. Of course, lots of the 'modern' radios include technology that was once state of the art, and had problems at. As for time-nuts and radio, I think SDR is a great place to tie them together. Dan N8XJK On 8/7/2013 12:00 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 1 Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:25:13 -0700 From: Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question... Message-ID: 590479.76849...@smtp119.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Chris and all, It seems to me that a lot of the new software is being developed by people who don't live in the real world or don't use the end product in the real world - or maybe not at all. Maybe I'm just old and senile, but a lot of the stuff I'm seeing is not intuitive, stable or even consistent. Is the State of The Art exceeding the state of the need? Burt, K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question... (Burt I. Weiner)
Hey didn't you all see the list owner say this topic isn't for the time nuts list? Sent from my iPhone On Aug 7, 2013, at 10:35, Dan Kemppainen d...@irtelemetrics.com wrote: I don't think the state of the art is exceeding the need. Because by nature that is part of what ham radio is. Experimentation is part of the game. Nothing wrong with appliance operators, if one chooses to be that. There are plenty of appliance radios out there. SDR just may not be there yet. Of course, lots of the 'modern' radios include technology that was once state of the art, and had problems at. As for time-nuts and radio, I think SDR is a great place to tie them together. Dan N8XJK On 8/7/2013 12:00 PM, time-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote: Message: 1 Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 08:25:13 -0700 From: Burt I. Weiner b...@att.net To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question... Message-ID: 590479.76849...@smtp119.sbc.mail.ne1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Chris and all, It seems to me that a lot of the new software is being developed by people who don't live in the real world or don't use the end product in the real world - or maybe not at all. Maybe I'm just old and senile, but a lot of the stuff I'm seeing is not intuitive, stable or even consistent. Is the State of The Art exceeding the state of the need? Burt, K6OQK ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
On 8/7/2013 6:02 PM, Russ Ramirez wrote: /Hi Alberto, can you say which SDR software this is? I have a TI TIVA board that is M4F based and am wondering if this new SDR code will support boards like this./ Hi Russ, I am afraid it is not a software untied to a specific hardware... The prototype was shown at the Ham Fair in Friedrichshafen, Germany, last June : https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15089947/FDM_DUO.jpg So the source code, being a commercial product, will not be released. Anyway, the STM Discovery STM32F4 board, which I used for the development, has a couple ADCs on the M4F chip, which I will use to sample RF at approximately 1.5 MHz. Using portions of the above software, I will implement an SDR meant for VLF, LF and the first part of MW, whose source code I will release. So you will be able to adapt it to your TIVA board. Keep an eye to my soft_radio Yahoo group where I will announce (probably in the October - November time frame) the availability of it. 73 Alberto I2PHD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Hi Chris, The Mac OS X user base is also growing rapidly, with many preferring the X desktop to Winders. And, under the hood is BSD unix (sort of).. And there is MkLinux if you don't like OS X.. It depends of it you want to be the kind of ham who understands radios and can build and design them or the kind who would have never remove the cover off his commercial built radio. Linux is the best OS for developers and those who like to build gear. Windows is better for the appliance user crowd. --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
On 8/6/2013 5:12 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: /It depends of it you want to be the kind of ham who understands radios and can build and design them or the kind who would have never remove the cover off his commercial built radio.Linux is the best OS for developers and those who like to build gear. Windows is better for the appliance user crowd./ When I developed Winrad and my other SDR programs, a few years ago, I examined which were the tools available to a serious developer. My conclusion was that under Windows you could find professional tools, geared towards professional developments. What was available under Linux were little more than toys, meant for the hobbyists and the tinkerers. For example, at the time I was unable to find under Linux a development environment with the features and the power of the Embarcadero Rad Studio, which is what I use. This made me to choose Windows as my main platform. 73 Alberto I2PHD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Yes, I'm writing this on an iMac. I'm a long time BSD Unix user going back to about 1980. Now, FINALLY we can say the UNIX and Linux are the most commonly used OSes in the wold as one of those runs on most phones. Linux is in Androids and a unix varient is on iPhones and Macs I remember going to a talk by Bill Gates, this was in the pre-Windows ears when his main product was MS-DOS. He said that he would make DOS more and more unix-like as PC hardware grew in power. At that time he did not understand what an OS was and they UNIX was just the shell, and worked like DOS. It was was an amusing speak he was completely ignorant about OS design. But he was the exec not the engineer so he did not have to know. Still Had Windows not surprised them Gates would have done have Apple (and Sun and man others) did and simply sold a re-branded UNIX. What much better off we'd all have been On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.auwrote: Hi Chris, The Mac OS X user base is also growing rapidly, with many preferring the X desktop to Winders. And, under the hood is BSD unix (sort of).. And there is MkLinux if you don't like OS X.. It depends of it you want to be the kind of ham who understands radios and can build and design them or the kind who would have never remove the cover off his commercial built radio. Linux is the best OS for developers and those who like to build gear. Windows is better for the appliance user crowd. --marki ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Have you ever looked at the unit put out by Ariel Rocholl called the RF Explorer? (link - http://micro.arocholl.com/) I bought one of these units and although they do not have everything ( I would love to have different demods on it), it has been an impressive unit, and inexpensive. I believe as Ariel gets more people interested in the handheld spectrum analyzer concept,he will be building better units with more capabilities. He has the spurs and birdies and other noise makers in any of these type of units, but he knows where they are and have taken them out ( mostly) in firmware. I bought one of the wideband units and even though the standalone units does not look very impressive, the Windows software make it into a very nice inexpensive and quite accurate handheld spectrum analyzer. I am not associated with Ariel, but he is approachable if you wish to talk to him ( I believe he is in Spain). I got mine from China at Seedstudio and other than one minor battery issue that they resolved I am very happy with it. Let me know if there is anything I could let you know if the online data does not tell you enough. Thanks, Jerry Chafee J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: OK. Thanks everybody. Can you please reccomend a make/model? I'd like something like: 75 to 1300 MHz USB Ability to function as a crude SA. Not crawling w/ birdies or aliasing issues. Will run on Win XP. Demod selecttable for all modes at all frequencies. In a package, rather than a loose PCB. $150 Prefer: SMA rather than RCA or F Receiver and SW from same vendor. Suggestions, please. Thanks, -John === ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix Microsoft DID sell a re-branded Unix. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: Yes, I'm writing this on an iMac. I'm a long time BSD Unix user going back to about 1980. Now, FINALLY we can say the UNIX and Linux are the most commonly used OSes in the wold as one of those runs on most phones. Linux is in Androids and a unix varient is on iPhones and Macs I remember going to a talk by Bill Gates, this was in the pre-Windows ears when his main product was MS-DOS. He said that he would make DOS more and more unix-like as PC hardware grew in power. At that time he did not understand what an OS was and they UNIX was just the shell, and worked like DOS. It was was an amusing speak he was completely ignorant about OS design. But he was the exec not the engineer so he did not have to know. Still Had Windows not surprised them Gates would have done have Apple (and Sun and man others) did and simply sold a re-branded UNIX. What much better off we'd all have been On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: Hi Chris, The Mac OS X user base is also growing rapidly, with many preferring the X desktop to Winders. And, under the hood is BSD unix (sort of).. And there is MkLinux if you don't like OS X.. It depends of it you want to be the kind of ham who understands radios and can build and design them or the kind who would have never remove the cover off his commercial built radio. Linux is the best OS for developers and those who like to build gear. Windows is better for the appliance user crowd. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Yes. I rememebr. I used one back when it was new. Getting back to the OP, what he was looking for. And SDR has two parts, a hardware front end and some software. Those two parts can be mostly independent. I'd suggest finding one or two or so SDR software system you like then collecting hardware. Make sure the software is free and open source. You don't want a closed source .exe file. That is like buying a radio with the cassis welded shut or potted in epoxy. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Orin Eman orin.e...@gmail.com wrote: Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenix Microsoft DID sell a re-branded Unix. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 2:34 PM, Chris Albertson albertson.ch...@gmail.comwrote: Yes, I'm writing this on an iMac. I'm a long time BSD Unix user going back to about 1980. Now, FINALLY we can say the UNIX and Linux are the most commonly used OSes in the wold as one of those runs on most phones. Linux is in Androids and a unix varient is on iPhones and Macs I remember going to a talk by Bill Gates, this was in the pre-Windows ears when his main product was MS-DOS. He said that he would make DOS more and more unix-like as PC hardware grew in power. At that time he did not understand what an OS was and they UNIX was just the shell, and worked like DOS. It was was an amusing speak he was completely ignorant about OS design. But he was the exec not the engineer so he did not have to know. Still Had Windows not surprised them Gates would have done have Apple (and Sun and man others) did and simply sold a re-branded UNIX. What much better off we'd all have been On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 12:43 AM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.au wrote: Hi Chris, The Mac OS X user base is also growing rapidly, with many preferring the X desktop to Winders. And, under the hood is BSD unix (sort of).. And there is MkLinux if you don't like OS X.. It depends of it you want to be the kind of ham who understands radios and can build and design them or the kind who would have never remove the cover off his commercial built radio. Linux is the best OS for developers and those who like to build gear. Windows is better for the appliance user crowd. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
That is true, Windows is great for Mr. Joe average, because of the ease of use, and because of the ease of use and user-base size, a lot of software has been developed for it. I use windows for a most tasks including software development and just to be compatible to everyone else. As you say, a lot of software is written for winders including professional programming IDE's etc. However, if Windows gets a virus or something breaks or corrupt, 9 times out of 10 you are screwed and have to reinstall. The great thing about Linux (Unix), there is always 101 ways to do the same thing, If something breaks, you can work around it until its fixed. Heck you can reinstall the GUI if you feel like it :) Each day I am drawn back to using Unix CLI and I have to say, I learn something new each day. As OS X roots are in a mature, robust OS (BSD), it is getting a great reputation as a robust but easy to use operating system. In fact, my next door neighbour has kicked his Windows out and bought a MAC! He is 82, and learning a new computing environment was not a trivial task for him and his wife. But he says he has never looked back. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Alberto di Bene Sent: Wednesday, 7 August 2013 7:04 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question On 8/6/2013 5:12 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: /It depends of it you want to be the kind of ham who understands radios and can build and design them or the kind who would have never remove the cover off his commercial built radio.Linux is the best OS for developers and those who like to build gear. Windows is better for the appliance user crowd./ When I developed Winrad and my other SDR programs, a few years ago, I examined which were the tools available to a serious developer. My conclusion was that under Windows you could find professional tools, geared towards professional developments. What was available under Linux were little more than toys, meant for the hobbyists and the tinkerers. For example, at the time I was unable to find under Linux a development environment with the features and the power of the Embarcadero Rad Studio, which is what I use. This made me to choose Windows as my main platform. 73 Alberto I2PHD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Funny that those toys that come with Linux pretty much run the entire Internet and every Android phone and almost every TV set top box and firewall/router. But in the end as a developer you either follow the market and the dollar or you do what your boss pays you to do. What tools are needed anyway but a few terminal windows and a text editor? Anyways the hot market now if you are chasing the dollar and customers is phone apps. That is what users want and that is who the companies are hiring. I'd really like to see SDR move to phones and tablets. It would make them even more portable. These phone now days have quad core 32-bit CPUs and GPUs that can be tapped for compting power for thing like FFTs and other DSP. As for development tools, there is no shortage. We also need some new ideas. So muct SDR software tries to emulate a 1980's radio. On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Mark C. Stephens ma...@non-stop.com.auwrote: That is true, Windows is great for Mr. Joe average, because of the ease of use, and because of the ease of use and user-base size, a lot of software has been developed for it. I use windows for a most tasks including software development and just to be compatible to everyone else. As you say, a lot of software is written for winders including professional programming IDE's etc. However, if Windows gets a virus or something breaks or corrupt, 9 times out of 10 you are screwed and have to reinstall. The great thing about Linux (Unix), there is always 101 ways to do the same thing, If something breaks, you can work around it until its fixed. Heck you can reinstall the GUI if you feel like it :) Each day I am drawn back to using Unix CLI and I have to say, I learn something new each day. As OS X roots are in a mature, robust OS (BSD), it is getting a great reputation as a robust but easy to use operating system. In fact, my next door neighbour has kicked his Windows out and bought a MAC! He is 82, and learning a new computing environment was not a trivial task for him and his wife. But he says he has never looked back. --marki -Original Message- From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Alberto di Bene Sent: Wednesday, 7 August 2013 7:04 AM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question On 8/6/2013 5:12 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: /It depends of it you want to be the kind of ham who understands radios and can build and design them or the kind who would have never remove the cover off his commercial built radio.Linux is the best OS for developers and those who like to build gear. Windows is better for the appliance user crowd./ When I developed Winrad and my other SDR programs, a few years ago, I examined which were the tools available to a serious developer. My conclusion was that under Windows you could find professional tools, geared towards professional developments. What was available under Linux were little more than toys, meant for the hobbyists and the tinkerers. For example, at the time I was unable to find under Linux a development environment with the features and the power of the Embarcadero Rad Studio, which is what I use. This made me to choose Windows as my main platform. 73 Alberto I2PHD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
This thread does not belong on time-nuts. Please stop. /tvb http://www.leapsecond.com/time-nuts.htm ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
[time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
OK. Thanks everybody. Can you please reccomend a make/model? I'd like something like: 75 to 1300 MHz USB Ability to function as a crude SA. Not crawling w/ birdies or aliasing issues. Will run on Win XP. Demod selecttable for all modes at all frequencies. In a package, rather than a loose PCB. $150 Prefer: SMA rather than RCA or F Receiver and SW from same vendor. Suggestions, please. Thanks, -John === ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Just be aware that they're not wideband units. The sampling rate defines the bandwidth of any sample, and the fact that it's 8 bits limits the resolution. So, you can essentially look at up to a 2MHz slice anywhere you want within 64MHz to 1.7GHz. Of course, you could move your center frequency to move the window. As to whether they have a flat response? I can't tell you. If you get a European consumer unit, you'll probably get one with a Belling-Lee connector. I don't know if anyone has written SA software for one, yet. When I was playing with mine, SDRSharp was pretty much the software standard. I've never tried to use mine for anything other than an FM radio. If I had a B-L adapter I'd be able to check some samples from my Tracking Generator, but it's not something I've ever looked into. Look on ebay for rtl2832 to find out what's most readily available Bob From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com To: hp_agilent_equipm...@yahoogroups.com; tekscop...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Time-nuts@febo.com; testequiptra...@yahoogroups.com; armyrad...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 4:52 PM Subject: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question OK. Thanks everybody. Can you please reccomend a make/model? I'd like something like: 75 to 1300 MHz USB Ability to function as a crude SA. Not crawling w/ birdies or aliasing issues. Will run on Win XP. Demod selecttable for all modes at all frequencies. In a package, rather than a loose PCB. $150 Prefer: SMA rather than RCA or F Receiver and SW from same vendor. Suggestions, please. Thanks, -John === ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 2:52 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: OK. Thanks everybody. Can you please reccomend a make/model? Will run on Win XP. The above seems an odd requirement. Why? -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
I assume you mean XP? Several reasons: Used Thinkpads that will run XP are cheap and plentiful. I hate Vista and Win 7... I'm interested in a turnkey tool, not SW 'elegance', etc. -John == On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 2:52 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: OK. Thanks everybody. Can you please reccomend a make/model? Will run on Win XP. The above seems an odd requirement. Why? -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
If the windo can be slid under SW control, that's enough. Flat, in this context is something like +/- 6 dB... non-critical. I want to be able to see spurs, etc. I don't need much dynamic range either. -John === Just be aware that they're not wideband units. The sampling rate defines the bandwidth of any sample, and the fact that it's 8 bits limits the resolution. So, you can essentially look at up to a 2MHz slice anywhere you want within 64MHz to 1.7GHz. Of course, you could move your center frequency to move the window. As to whether they have a flat response? I can't tell you. If you get a European consumer unit, you'll probably get one with a Belling-Lee connector. I don't know if anyone has written SA software for one, yet. When I was playing with mine, SDRSharp was pretty much the software standard. I've never tried to use mine for anything other than an FM radio. If I had a B-L adapter I'd be able to check some samples from my Tracking Generator, but it's not something I've ever looked into. Look on ebay for rtl2832 to find out what's most readily available Bob From: J. Forster j...@quikus.com To: hp_agilent_equipm...@yahoogroups.com; tekscop...@yahoogroups.com Cc: Time-nuts@febo.com; testequiptra...@yahoogroups.com; armyrad...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 5, 2013 4:52 PM Subject: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question OK. Thanks everybody. Can you please reccomend a make/model? I'd like something like: 75 to 1300 MHz USB Ability to function as a crude SA. Not crawling w/ birdies or aliasing issues. Will run on Win XP. Demod selecttable for all modes at all frequencies. In a package, rather than a loose PCB. $150 Prefer: SMA rather than RCA or F Receiver and SW from same vendor. Suggestions, please. Thanks, -John === ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Hi John, I don't think you quite got it yet. All of those types of Dongles have no frontend filtering and no gain control (AGC). Basically it is a diode (so to speak) looking at the spectrum from DC to Daylight, even though they have a limited range. So, yes, there will be birdies and aliasing issues. There is no software from a unit's manufacturer for the All Frequency observation mode that Amateur radio and other hobbyists are using it for. Aside from all that , they do come in a plastic case and there is some excelent control software, notably Simon Browns HDSDR, that can control a number of these types of umits. As for spectrum software, the best one is Spectrum Labs which can take I/Q input. See the respective web sites for more information. Both of these packages are FREE. http://www.hdsdr.de/hardware.html The SDR software hardware page http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.htmlThe Spectrum Lab software. BillWB6BNQ J. Forster wrote: OK. Thanks everybody. Can you please reccomend a make/model? I'd like something like: 75 to 1300 MHz USB Ability to function as a crude SA. Not crawling w/ birdies or aliasing issues. Will run on Win XP. Demod selecttable for all modes at all frequencies. In a package, rather than a loose PCB. $150 Prefer: SMA rather than RCA or F Receiver and SW from same vendor. Suggestions, please. Thanks, -John === ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
On 8/5/2013 11:52 PM, J. Forster wrote: 75 to 1300 MHz USB Ability to function as a crude SA. Not crawling w/ birdies or aliasing issues. Will run on Win XP. Demod selecttable for all modes at all frequencies. In a package, rather than a loose PCB. $150 I bought this from China : http://tinyurl.com/oujy9nu and it works quite well. It has the R820T tuner. I have another, with the Fitipower FC0013 tuner, but it is quite deaf compared to the R820T. And it stops at roughly 1100 MHz. If you stay on Windows instead of Linux, you will find many more SDR programs, and more refined. If instead you prefer spend your time with configure, compilations, debugging, search of the correct version of the libraries, etc. then I warmly recommend you Linux... flame suits on :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Hi John, I don't think you quite got it yet. All of those types of Dongles have no frontend filtering and no gain control (AGC). Oh, I'm all too familiar w/ SAs without YIG preselectors. That's why I've always preferred AILtech to HP. Basically it is a diode (so to speak) looking at the spectrum from DC to Daylight, even though they have a limited range. Understood. But, there are Image Rejection Mixers. So, yes, there will be birdies and aliasing issues. There is no software from a unit's manufacturer for the All Frequency observation mode that Amateur radio and other hobbyists are using it for. What I'm looking for is something like the W-J, ACL, or CEI ELINT receivers, in digital form, and much cheaper. I just would like to play with one a bit. Aside from all that , they do come in a plastic case and there is some excelent control software, notably Simon Browns HDSDR, that can control a number of these types of umits. As for spectrum software, the best one is Spectrum Labs which can take I/Q input. See the respective web sites for more information. Both of these packages are FREE. Free is good! LoL. http://www.hdsdr.de/hardware.html The SDR software hardware page http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.htmlThe Spectrum Lab software. BillWB6BNQ Thanks, -John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
Hi If it's cheap enough to make disappointment a minor issue - go for it. There will be spurs at the clock frequency(s) and harmonics there of. At some input level you will seeintermod issues. Weather they are bad enough for you to care about - only a trial can tell. Bob On Aug 5, 2013, at 6:45 PM, J. Forster j...@quikus.com wrote: Hi John, I don't think you quite got it yet. All of those types of Dongles have no frontend filtering and no gain control (AGC). Oh, I'm all too familiar w/ SAs without YIG preselectors. That's why I've always preferred AILtech to HP. Basically it is a diode (so to speak) looking at the spectrum from DC to Daylight, even though they have a limited range. Understood. But, there are Image Rejection Mixers. So, yes, there will be birdies and aliasing issues. There is no software from a unit's manufacturer for the All Frequency observation mode that Amateur radio and other hobbyists are using it for. What I'm looking for is something like the W-J, ACL, or CEI ELINT receivers, in digital form, and much cheaper. I just would like to play with one a bit. Aside from all that , they do come in a plastic case and there is some excelent control software, notably Simon Browns HDSDR, that can control a number of these types of umits. As for spectrum software, the best one is Spectrum Labs which can take I/Q input. See the respective web sites for more information. Both of these packages are FREE. Free is good! LoL. http://www.hdsdr.de/hardware.html The SDR software hardware page http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.htmlThe Spectrum Lab software. BillWB6BNQ Thanks, -John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question - some links
I didn't see this mentioned (then again, I get tired of scrolling thru all the copies of all the responses). January '13 issue of QST had a nice article by K3ACT about how to actually get all the pieces (hardware and software) hooked up, along with a simple upconverter to push the LF end down as far as you want. (www.arrl.org ) The author also posted a (relatively poor) pdf scan of his article: www.w3vpr.org/files/dongle%20article001_0.pdf or www.w3vpr.org/node/1252. W6LSN has a writeup of his experiences, and some suggestions: w6lsn.com/blog/cheap-and-easy-sdr/ It's remarkably inexpensive, sounds like great fun just to play with. -- Bill Ezell They said 'Windows or better' so I used Linux. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
Re: [time-nuts] SDR Radio Opinion- Next Question
If you stay on Windows instead of Linux, you will find many more SDR programs, and more refined. If instead you prefer spend your time with configure, compilations, debugging, search of the correct version of the libraries, etc. then I warmly recommend you Linux... flame suits on :-) It depends of it you want to be the kind of ham who understands radios and can build and design them or the kind who would have never remove the cover off his commercial built radio.Linux is the best OS for developers and those who like to build gear. Windows is better for the appliance user crowd. One of the best software setups for people who want to understand how this all works is GNUradio http://gnuradio.org/redmine/projects/gnuradio/wiki It comes with a nice graphical drag and drop construction kit http://gnuradio.org/redmine/projects/gnuradio/wiki/GNURadioCompanion -- Chris Albertson Redondo Beach, California ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
