Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the hobby. Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the 1970s. However "well respected" they were, shouldn't they have been reported to the authorities rather than "appreciated"? Should we appreciate hams who jam dxpeditions, contesters, traffic nets or ragchewers? Just curious... 73 Kevin K3OX _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
>>>Those are exactly those deaf sdrs I mentioned, just useless. This does not make any sense at all!!! If the receiver is deaf, like 'door knob' deaf, fair enough, but it wouldn't be online. Well, you never know, hams are a 'funny' bunch after all. They would put a 'deaf' receiver online, and use it too. Later post to the Topband list that propagation was terrible. LOL All it needs to receive is the local 'traffic'. Isn't that the reason to look for them in the first place? Vince, VA3VF _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Peter. It is not hard. Thanks. I have to rest. Good night. --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua dj...@t-online.de писал 2020-01-12 00:07: Those are exactly those deaf sdrs I mentioned, just useless. But tell me how exactly will you know who is using them? 73 Peter -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+dj7ww=t-online...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of uy0zg Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2020 22:49 To: peter.voel...@t-online.de Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc This link can be found on the Internet : https://sdr.hu/ --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua dj...@t-online.de ? 2020-01-11 23:39: Of course I understand the topic. Web sdrs have the worse receiving capabilities. I see no reason at all to use one. But you did not answer my question concerning the sdrs. Please do, if possible with the links to them. 73 Peter -Original Message- From: uy0zg [mailto:uy...@mksat.net] Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2020 22:15 To: peter.voel...@t-online.de Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc You Peter did not understand the topic. Participants ( contests on 160 ?) from Eastern Europe use receivers in the USA, Japan and Australia. They feel completely unpunished. This is the main problem! --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua dj...@t-online.de ? 2020-01-11 22:05: If my 160m receive would be as bad as with any web sdr I would not contest on that band. Which web sdr is used from Eastern Europe? 73 Peter -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+dj7ww=t-online...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of uy0zg Serious problems for topband are the use of WEB.SDR. Especially in Eastern Europe. The goal of such scammers is the highest places in popular contests at 160 meters. This problem is N1. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
There are methods. Only desire is needed. This must be done at the official level (ARRL). And in a year or two the order will be restored. --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Jean-Paul Albert писал 2020-01-12 00:10: Absoluty right Nick. And not only from east and not only on 160. But, how to stop it ? 73 Jean-Paul F6FYA en direct depuis son iPad. Le 11 janv. 2020 à 20:14, uy0zg a écrit : Hi All FT8 is not a global issue. Two or three years and people will get tired of this toy .. Serious problems for topband are the use of WEB.SDR. Especially in Eastern Europe. The goal of such scammers is the highest places in popular contests at 160 meters. This problem is N1. Unfortunately, no one solves this problem ... --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Peter Sundberg писал 2020-01-11 19:27: Skills involved?? Achievements?? You've got to be kidding Mike... Achievements in the WW Digi Contest were so dramatically poor that the contest committee had to waive the NIL penalty because otherwise a large number of final scores would have been negative! "The amount of NILs is abnormally high" - the committees own words in their article. Does it sound attractive to bring such contest behavior Top Band? Of course not. 73 Peter SM2CEW _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
People have been cheating forever and it will never end. Cheaters need to be dealt with and ignored. They cheat to get an award they have to pay for. Cracks me up. They cheat to win a contest where the prize is a 50 dollar plaque. I don't compare what I do to others. My DXCC is mine alone. What anyone else does with their awards is up to them. I can't be too bothered by something I have zero control over. I will not let cheaters ruin my fun. W0MU On 1/11/2020 3:19 PM, DXer wrote: This is likely the only thing we agree on on this thread. The unethical use of remote receivers. >>This link can be found on the Internet : https://sdr.hu/ And unfortunately, open to licensed hams only since last week. Talk about facilitating bad pratices! SWLs were shut out, even though they are likely the main 'providers' of those remote receivers. I said in another venue, where this was also being discussed, that it should be the other way around. It always boils down to the following: If you use/like it it's hamradio, if you don't (for whatever reason) it's not. Look at DXpeditions. For those that did not succeed, it was the worst DXped of the year. For the others, the best. Any 'greater than 2 cells brain' ham can see the irony. Deal with this problem before haranguing those using legal modes ethically! Vince, VA3VF _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
This is likely the only thing we agree on on this thread. The unethical use of remote receivers. >>This link can be found on the Internet : https://sdr.hu/ And unfortunately, open to licensed hams only since last week. Talk about facilitating bad pratices! SWLs were shut out, even though they are likely the main 'providers' of those remote receivers. I said in another venue, where this was also being discussed, that it should be the other way around. It always boils down to the following: If you use/like it it's hamradio, if you don't (for whatever reason) it's not. Look at DXpeditions. For those that did not succeed, it was the worst DXped of the year. For the others, the best. Any 'greater than 2 cells brain' ham can see the irony. Deal with this problem before haranguing those using legal modes ethically! Vince, VA3VF _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Try websdr.org. They have a large list of web-based SDRs. You simply enter the desired region, frequency, etc. and it'll display a custom, narrowed-down list for you. 73, Mike W0BTU On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 2:06 PM wrote: > > Which web sdr is used from Eastern Europe? > _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Absoluty right Nick. And not only from east and not only on 160. But, how to stop it ? 73 Jean-Paul F6FYA en direct depuis son iPad. > Le 11 janv. 2020 à 20:14, uy0zg a écrit : > > Hi All > > FT8 is not a global issue. Two or three years and people will get tired of > this toy .. > > Serious problems for topband are the use of WEB.SDR. Especially in Eastern > Europe. The goal of such scammers is the highest places in popular contests > at 160 meters. > This problem is N1. > Unfortunately, no one solves this problem ... > > > --- > Nick, UY0ZG > http://www.topband.in.ua > > Peter Sundberg писал 2020-01-11 19:27: >> Skills involved?? Achievements?? You've got to be kidding Mike... >> Achievements in the WW Digi Contest were so dramatically poor that the >> contest committee had to waive the NIL penalty because otherwise a >> large number of final scores would have been negative! >> "The amount of NILs is abnormally high" - the committees own words in >> their article. >> Does it sound attractive to bring such contest behavior Top Band? >> Of course not. >> 73 >> Peter SM2CEW > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Those are exactly those deaf sdrs I mentioned, just useless. But tell me how exactly will you know who is using them? 73 Peter -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+dj7ww=t-online...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of uy0zg Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2020 22:49 To: peter.voel...@t-online.de Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc This link can be found on the Internet : https://sdr.hu/ --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua dj...@t-online.de ? 2020-01-11 23:39: > Of course I understand the topic. > Web sdrs have the worse receiving capabilities. > I see no reason at all to use one. > > But you did not answer my question concerning the sdrs. > Please do, if possible with the links to them. > > 73 > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: uy0zg [mailto:uy...@mksat.net] > Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2020 22:15 > To: peter.voel...@t-online.de > Cc: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc > > > You Peter did not understand the topic. > > Participants ( contests on 160 ?) from Eastern Europe use receivers in > the USA, Japan and Australia. > > They feel completely unpunished. > > > This is the main problem! > > --- > Nick, UY0ZG > http://www.topband.in.ua > > dj...@t-online.de ? 2020-01-11 22:05: >> If my 160m receive would be as bad as with any web sdr I would not >> contest >> on that band. >> Which web sdr is used from Eastern Europe? >> >> 73 >> Peter >> >> -Original Message- >> From: Topband >> [mailto:topband-bounces+dj7ww=t-online...@contesting.com] >> On >> Behalf Of uy0zg >> >> Serious problems for topband are the use of WEB.SDR. Especially in >> Eastern Europe. The goal of such scammers is the highest places in >> popular contests at 160 meters. >> This problem is N1. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Wow Roger, people jammed repeaters for the autruistic reason of saving amateurs from themselves? Let me give you two other more likely reasons for this and why people belittle FT8 (the first of which you allude to in your email): 1. "I had to do it the hard way, so should you" ; and 2. They were/are concerned their achievements would be somehow be diluted. These arguments were no doubt also used when the CW requirement on HF was dropped and SSB took over from AM. I find it incredibly sad the tolerance on this list is such, people felt they had to set up a new reflector to discuss a 160m topic. Whatever happened to the delete key? I am also reminded of a quote from the late physicist Stephen Hawking: "Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change." 73 Mark ZL3AB It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the hobby. Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the 1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby. People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work stations 50 miles away. However, most new amateurs that did that very quickly got bored with the hobby, as there was no sense of achievement, no reason to self-improve . . . and disappeared off the air. Those that got the satisfaction of working stations further away through their own efforts were usually the ones that sustained interest in the hobby. (It's interesting that there is almost NO activity on the various Repeaters here in Britain these days . . . which kind of confirms my point!) I think it's the same logic that many of us apply to the computer-based modes/protocols . . . that there is no skill involved, and so no real sense of achievement, like there is when puling a really weak DX station out of the noise . . . with the result that those people will very soon lose interest in the hobby. So those of you who are so keen on them, please at least understand our motives . . . it's because of our passion for the hobby that we are against these computer-based modes . . . in the same way as I personally am against VHF Repeaters or accessing remote Transmitting or even Receiving sites. Roger G3YRO _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
This link can be found on the Internet : https://sdr.hu/ --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua dj...@t-online.de писал 2020-01-11 23:39: Of course I understand the topic. Web sdrs have the worse receiving capabilities. I see no reason at all to use one. But you did not answer my question concerning the sdrs. Please do, if possible with the links to them. 73 Peter -Original Message- From: uy0zg [mailto:uy...@mksat.net] Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2020 22:15 To: peter.voel...@t-online.de Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc You Peter did not understand the topic. Participants ( contests on 160 ?) from Eastern Europe use receivers in the USA, Japan and Australia. They feel completely unpunished. This is the main problem! --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua dj...@t-online.de ? 2020-01-11 22:05: If my 160m receive would be as bad as with any web sdr I would not contest on that band. Which web sdr is used from Eastern Europe? 73 Peter -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+dj7ww=t-online...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of uy0zg Serious problems for topband are the use of WEB.SDR. Especially in Eastern Europe. The goal of such scammers is the highest places in popular contests at 160 meters. This problem is N1. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
This list has the largest collection of grumpy old farts possible and I say that with some reality and kindness. :) You know who you are. You sit in your shack and do nothing but complain. How many of you GoF's have actually done any mentoring or Elmering. What have you done to protect and build the legacy of amateur radio? When was the last time you invited anyone into your shack? Clearly, if you are not part of the solution, you are actually part of the problem. I have lost track of how many club meetings I have presented at, but it is a significant number. I can tell your type as your eyes glass over at new ideas. You have no desire to learn or expand your skills. This is NOT what got you to this point in the hobby. Look back to your early years of Ham radio? Wow, there was so much cool stuff to learn, try and even fail at. Now, you are afraid to give anything new a shot. “Once you stop learning, you start dying” –Albert Einstein Mike va3mw _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Of course I understand the topic. Web sdrs have the worse receiving capabilities. I see no reason at all to use one. But you did not answer my question concerning the sdrs. Please do, if possible with the links to them. 73 Peter -Original Message- From: uy0zg [mailto:uy...@mksat.net] Sent: Samstag, 11. Januar 2020 22:15 To: peter.voel...@t-online.de Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc You Peter did not understand the topic. Participants ( contests on 160 ?) from Eastern Europe use receivers in the USA, Japan and Australia. They feel completely unpunished. This is the main problem! --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua dj...@t-online.de ? 2020-01-11 22:05: > If my 160m receive would be as bad as with any web sdr I would not > contest > on that band. > Which web sdr is used from Eastern Europe? > > 73 > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+dj7ww=t-online...@contesting.com] > On > Behalf Of uy0zg > > Serious problems for topband are the use of WEB.SDR. Especially in > Eastern Europe. The goal of such scammers is the highest places in > popular contests at 160 meters. > This problem is N1. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
You Peter did not understand the topic. Participants ( contests on 160 м) from Eastern Europe use receivers in the USA, Japan and Australia. They feel completely unpunished. This is the main problem! --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua dj...@t-online.de писал 2020-01-11 22:05: If my 160m receive would be as bad as with any web sdr I would not contest on that band. Which web sdr is used from Eastern Europe? 73 Peter -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+dj7ww=t-online...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of uy0zg Serious problems for topband are the use of WEB.SDR. Especially in Eastern Europe. The goal of such scammers is the highest places in popular contests at 160 meters. This problem is N1. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
If my 160m receive would be as bad as with any web sdr I would not contest on that band. Which web sdr is used from Eastern Europe? 73 Peter -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces+dj7ww=t-online...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of uy0zg Serious problems for topband are the use of WEB.SDR. Especially in Eastern Europe. The goal of such scammers is the highest places in popular contests at 160 meters. This problem is N1. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Hi All FT8 is not a global issue. Two or three years and people will get tired of this toy .. Serious problems for topband are the use of WEB.SDR. Especially in Eastern Europe. The goal of such scammers is the highest places in popular contests at 160 meters. This problem is N1. Unfortunately, no one solves this problem ... --- Nick, UY0ZG http://www.topband.in.ua Peter Sundberg писал 2020-01-11 19:27: Skills involved?? Achievements?? You've got to be kidding Mike... Achievements in the WW Digi Contest were so dramatically poor that the contest committee had to waive the NIL penalty because otherwise a large number of final scores would have been negative! "The amount of NILs is abnormally high" - the committees own words in their article. Does it sound attractive to bring such contest behavior Top Band? Of course not. 73 Peter SM2CEW _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Cecil, I’m just shy of 62 and agree with you 100 percent! 73, Bob AA6VB Robert L. Chortek > On Jan 11, 2020, at 8:55 AM, Cecil wrote: > > [External Email] > > That’s all fine and good but that’s clinging to the assumption that these are > mindless younger hams that at some point will get bored with the digital > stuff, drop out of the hobby and fade away. > > Actually most of these folks are just adding the digital modes to their tool > bags in their quest to work more DX...and aren’t the younger crowd for the > most part either. > > I’m 63, been a ham since the early 70s, I’ll work CW, RTTY, SSB and the > digital modes, where ever the fun takes me. > > So guys like me aren’t going away bored we’re just adapting as time passes. > > One thing we won’t do is sit around and be poked and prodded and belittled > for it by a group of narrow minded individuals who call themselves gentlemen. > > We will move forward... > > Cecil > K5DL > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jan 11, 2020, at 10:31 AM, for...@siol.net wrote: >> >> Hi Roger, >> >> yeah, you are my man..could not be >> said better.. >> >> Nermin S58DX >> >> -----Izvorno sporočilo----- From: Roger Kennedy >> Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:32 PM >> To: topband@contesting.com >> Subject: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc >> >> >> It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby >> - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the >> hobby. >> >> Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively >> involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the >> 1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those >> people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby. >> People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work >> stations 50 miles away. >> >> However, most new amateurs that did that very quickly got bored with the >> hobby, as there was no sense of achievement, no reason to self-improve . . . >> and disappeared off the air. Those that got the satisfaction of working >> stations further away through their own efforts were usually the ones that >> sustained interest in the hobby. >> >> (It's interesting that there is almost NO activity on the various Repeaters >> here in Britain these days . . . which kind of confirms my point!) >> >> I think it's the same logic that many of us apply to the computer-based >> modes/protocols . . . that there is no skill involved, and so no real sense >> of achievement, like there is when puling a really weak DX station out of >> the noise . . . with the result that those people will very soon lose >> interest in the hobby. >> >> So those of you who are so keen on them, please at least understand our >> motives . . . it's because of our passion for the hobby that we are against >> these computer-based modes . . . in the same way as I personally am against >> VHF Repeaters or accessing remote Transmitting or even Receiving sites. >> >> Roger G3YRO >> >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector >> _ >> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Well it’s is an all inclusive list for Topband activity...but as you can see it’s pretty selective. Over time hopefully most of the digital mode discussion will migrate to the new list and it will no longer be an irritant here. I’m sure there will be much rejoicing and the list will go dormant...much like the CW portions of the band on any given night... By your own admission. Cecil K5DL Sent from my iPad > On Jan 11, 2020, at 11:28 AM, K9FD wrote: > > Was there not another list started for FT8 on topband?? > > Why the heck is this stuff still here then?? > > > >> Roger, >> >> If you are so confident that digital is going to fail, why not sit back and >> let it happen? I have never figured out why people in the hobby would >> actively seek to push people out of the hobby. What I find most interesting >> is that those trying new things and experimenting never seem to "attack" >> those that don't. Why is that? >> >> Like all hobbies people come and go for their own reasons. There is a hell >> of a lot more to the hobby than working people on AM, CW or SSB on HF, >> chasing DX, contesting etc. >> >> As for your 2nd to last paragraph, those are your opinions. Those are not >> facts. There is skill involved. There is a bunch of excitement and >> achievement. You just keep repeating the same old things to make yourself >> feel better. Congratulations to your old guard in England for being able >> to run people off your repeaters. That is something to be proud about? Wow! >>The ARRL RTTY roundup ran recently and FT/X and other modes were allowed >> but those modes or types were never really pushed. >> https://3830scores.com/currecscores.php?arg=01cgsXz7mgcyx Why don't you >> click the link and see how many people used digital? This list only those >> that know about 3830. Yes RTTY is the champion by far but it would seem to >> me that a lot of people sure had fun digital. >> >> I understand you don't like. FT8 users got that long ago. I know plenty of >> hams who will never get on CW but I never hear them criticizing it or even >> thinking about jamming things they don't like. >> >> In the USA this is what Ham Radio is according to the FCC. >> >> §97.1 Basis and purpose. The rules and regulations in this part are designed >> to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as >> expressed in the following principles: >> (a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the >> public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly >> withrespect to providing emergency communications. >> (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute >> to the advancement of the radio art. >> (c) Encouragement and improvementof the amateur service through rules which >> provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases >> of the art. >> (d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of >> trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts. >> (e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance >> international goodwill. >> >> I think many have lost sight of this. Encouragement is not telling people >> that FT8 sucks, that you have no skill, it is not ham radio, nobody will >> stay with it etc. It is certainly not about jamming people out off a >> repeater. >> >> Where is your goodwill? Instead of constant criticism of the modes, where >> is the reaching out to others to try CW or SSB or some other parts of the >> hobby?All I see is oh you run X Get out of here. I find it >> extraordinary that somehow you can tell someone what will be exciting to >> them or what is an achievement to themor what takes skills and you don't >> even know them. What is wrong with Ham Radio today? This! >> >> Anyway we have our own group of nearly 100 people in less than a day. We >> will continue on in a friendly fashion and will have fun and if FT/X dies so >> be it. I bet something else might come along to replace it. >> >> >> I get a big thrill out of working any DX on 160. CW or FT8 or SSB. It is >> hard from Colorado even with fairly decent setup. I can work DX on FT8 on >> days I never hear a thing on CW. You have lived your life next to a nice >> salt ocean very close the population center of the USA, not to mention how >> close you are to so many other countries. Topband for you is very different >> than the Topband I have. Working states is similar to your working DX in >> Germany or Sweden and even Africa and parts of the middle East. >> >> It saddens me that owner of this list has similar views to yours Roger. >> Tree was one of the guys I looked up to as a young contester. He was one of >> the first to push the envelope with a Sweepstakes Robot and really helped >> with log checking and so many other advancement in Contesting and the hobby. >> It is sad that some
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Just proving my point Peter. You can't stop bashing people. You are what is wrong with the hobby. Good day. On 1/11/2020 10:27 AM, Peter Sundberg wrote: Skills involved?? Achievements?? You've got to be kidding Mike... Achievements in the WW Digi Contest were so dramatically poor that the contest committee had to waive the NIL penalty because otherwise a large number of final scores would have been negative! "The amount of NILs is abnormally high" - the committees own words in their article. Does it sound attractive to bring such contest behavior Top Band? Of course not. 73 Peter SM2CEW At 17:12 2020-01-11, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote: snip.. There is skill involved. There is a bunch of excitement and achievement. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Was there not another list started for FT8 on topband?? Why the heck is this stuff still here then?? Roger, If you are so confident that digital is going to fail, why not sit back and let it happen? I have never figured out why people in the hobby would actively seek to push people out of the hobby. What I find most interesting is that those trying new things and experimenting never seem to "attack" those that don't. Why is that? Like all hobbies people come and go for their own reasons. There is a hell of a lot more to the hobby than working people on AM, CW or SSB on HF, chasing DX, contesting etc. As for your 2nd to last paragraph, those are your opinions. Those are not facts. There is skill involved. There is a bunch of excitement and achievement. You just keep repeating the same old things to make yourself feel better. Congratulations to your old guard in England for being able to run people off your repeaters. That is something to be proud about? Wow! The ARRL RTTY roundup ran recently and FT/X and other modes were allowed but those modes or types were never really pushed. https://3830scores.com/currecscores.php?arg=01cgsXz7mgcyx Why don't you click the link and see how many people used digital? This list only those that know about 3830. Yes RTTY is the champion by far but it would seem to me that a lot of people sure had fun digital. I understand you don't like. FT8 users got that long ago. I know plenty of hams who will never get on CW but I never hear them criticizing it or even thinking about jamming things they don't like. In the USA this is what Ham Radio is according to the FCC. §97.1 Basis and purpose. The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles: (a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly withrespect to providing emergency communications. (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art. (c) Encouragement and improvementof the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art. (d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts. (e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill. I think many have lost sight of this. Encouragement is not telling people that FT8 sucks, that you have no skill, it is not ham radio, nobody will stay with it etc. It is certainly not about jamming people out off a repeater. Where is your goodwill? Instead of constant criticism of the modes, where is the reaching out to others to try CW or SSB or some other parts of the hobby? All I see is oh you run X Get out of here. I find it extraordinary that somehow you can tell someone what will be exciting to them or what is an achievement to themor what takes skills and you don't even know them. What is wrong with Ham Radio today? This! Anyway we have our own group of nearly 100 people in less than a day. We will continue on in a friendly fashion and will have fun and if FT/X dies so be it. I bet something else might come along to replace it. I get a big thrill out of working any DX on 160. CW or FT8 or SSB. It is hard from Colorado even with fairly decent setup. I can work DX on FT8 on days I never hear a thing on CW. You have lived your life next to a nice salt ocean very close the population center of the USA, not to mention how close you are to so many other countries. Topband for you is very different than the Topband I have. Working states is similar to your working DX in Germany or Sweden and even Africa and parts of the middle East. It saddens me that owner of this list has similar views to yours Roger. Tree was one of the guys I looked up to as a young contester. He was one of the first to push the envelope with a Sweepstakes Robot and really helped with log checking and so many other advancement in Contesting and the hobby. It is sad that some can't be accepting of what others do. It is sad that we had to create another list because people could not be civil. 73, W0MU It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the hobby. Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the 1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby. People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work stations 50 miles
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Skills involved?? Achievements?? You've got to be kidding Mike... Achievements in the WW Digi Contest were so dramatically poor that the contest committee had to waive the NIL penalty because otherwise a large number of final scores would have been negative! "The amount of NILs is abnormally high" - the committees own words in their article. Does it sound attractive to bring such contest behavior Top Band? Of course not. 73 Peter SM2CEW At 17:12 2020-01-11, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote: snip.. There is skill involved. There is a bunch of excitement and achievement. _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Roger, If you are so confident that digital is going to fail, why not sit back and let it happen? I have never figured out why people in the hobby would actively seek to push people out of the hobby. What I find most interesting is that those trying new things and experimenting never seem to "attack" those that don't. Why is that? Like all hobbies people come and go for their own reasons. There is a hell of a lot more to the hobby than working people on AM, CW or SSB on HF, chasing DX, contesting etc. As for your 2nd to last paragraph, those are your opinions. Those are not facts. There is skill involved. There is a bunch of excitement and achievement. You just keep repeating the same old things to make yourself feel better. Congratulations to your old guard in England for being able to run people off your repeaters. That is something to be proud about? Wow! The ARRL RTTY roundup ran recently and FT/X and other modes were allowed but those modes or types were never really pushed. https://3830scores.com/currecscores.php?arg=01cgsXz7mgcyx Why don't you click the link and see how many people used digital? This list only those that know about 3830. Yes RTTY is the champion by far but it would seem to me that a lot of people sure had fun digital. I understand you don't like. FT8 users got that long ago. I know plenty of hams who will never get on CW but I never hear them criticizing it or even thinking about jamming things they don't like. In the USA this is what Ham Radio is according to the FCC. §97.1 Basis and purpose. The rules and regulations in this part are designed to provide an amateur radio service having a fundamental purpose as expressed in the following principles: (a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly withrespect to providing emergency communications. (b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art. (c) Encouragement and improvementof the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communication and technical phases of the art. (d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts. (e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill. I think many have lost sight of this. Encouragement is not telling people that FT8 sucks, that you have no skill, it is not ham radio, nobody will stay with it etc. It is certainly not about jamming people out off a repeater. Where is your goodwill? Instead of constant criticism of the modes, where is the reaching out to others to try CW or SSB or some other parts of the hobby? All I see is oh you run X Get out of here. I find it extraordinary that somehow you can tell someone what will be exciting to them or what is an achievement to themor what takes skills and you don't even know them. What is wrong with Ham Radio today? This! Anyway we have our own group of nearly 100 people in less than a day. We will continue on in a friendly fashion and will have fun and if FT/X dies so be it. I bet something else might come along to replace it. I get a big thrill out of working any DX on 160. CW or FT8 or SSB. It is hard from Colorado even with fairly decent setup. I can work DX on FT8 on days I never hear a thing on CW. You have lived your life next to a nice salt ocean very close the population center of the USA, not to mention how close you are to so many other countries. Topband for you is very different than the Topband I have. Working states is similar to your working DX in Germany or Sweden and even Africa and parts of the middle East. It saddens me that owner of this list has similar views to yours Roger. Tree was one of the guys I looked up to as a young contester. He was one of the first to push the envelope with a Sweepstakes Robot and really helped with log checking and so many other advancement in Contesting and the hobby. It is sad that some can't be accepting of what others do. It is sad that we had to create another list because people could not be civil. 73, W0MU It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the hobby. Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the 1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby. People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work stations 50 miles away. However, most new amateurs that did that very quickly got bored with the hobby, as there was no sense of
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
That’s all fine and good but that’s clinging to the assumption that these are mindless younger hams that at some point will get bored with the digital stuff, drop out of the hobby and fade away. Actually most of these folks are just adding the digital modes to their tool bags in their quest to work more DX...and aren’t the younger crowd for the most part either. I’m 63, been a ham since the early 70s, I’ll work CW, RTTY, SSB and the digital modes, where ever the fun takes me. So guys like me aren’t going away bored we’re just adapting as time passes. One thing we won’t do is sit around and be poked and prodded and belittled for it by a group of narrow minded individuals who call themselves gentlemen. We will move forward... Cecil K5DL Sent from my iPad > On Jan 11, 2020, at 10:31 AM, for...@siol.net wrote: > > Hi Roger, > > yeah, you are my man..could not be > said better.. > > Nermin S58DX > > -Izvorno sporočilo- From: Roger Kennedy > Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:32 PM > To: topband@contesting.com > Subject: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc > > > It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby > - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the > hobby. > > Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively > involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the > 1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those > people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby. > People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work > stations 50 miles away. > > However, most new amateurs that did that very quickly got bored with the > hobby, as there was no sense of achievement, no reason to self-improve . . . > and disappeared off the air. Those that got the satisfaction of working > stations further away through their own efforts were usually the ones that > sustained interest in the hobby. > > (It's interesting that there is almost NO activity on the various Repeaters > here in Britain these days . . . which kind of confirms my point!) > > I think it's the same logic that many of us apply to the computer-based > modes/protocols . . . that there is no skill involved, and so no real sense > of achievement, like there is when puling a really weak DX station out of > the noise . . . with the result that those people will very soon lose > interest in the hobby. > > So those of you who are so keen on them, please at least understand our > motives . . . it's because of our passion for the hobby that we are against > these computer-based modes . . . in the same way as I personally am against > VHF Repeaters or accessing remote Transmitting or even Receiving sites. > > Roger G3YRO > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
Hi Roger, yeah, you are my man..could not be said better.. Nermin S58DX -Izvorno sporočilo- From: Roger Kennedy Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:32 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the hobby. Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the 1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby. People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work stations 50 miles away. However, most new amateurs that did that very quickly got bored with the hobby, as there was no sense of achievement, no reason to self-improve . . . and disappeared off the air. Those that got the satisfaction of working stations further away through their own efforts were usually the ones that sustained interest in the hobby. (It's interesting that there is almost NO activity on the various Repeaters here in Britain these days . . . which kind of confirms my point!) I think it's the same logic that many of us apply to the computer-based modes/protocols . . . that there is no skill involved, and so no real sense of achievement, like there is when puling a really weak DX station out of the noise . . . with the result that those people will very soon lose interest in the hobby. So those of you who are so keen on them, please at least understand our motives . . . it's because of our passion for the hobby that we are against these computer-based modes . . . in the same way as I personally am against VHF Repeaters or accessing remote Transmitting or even Receiving sites. Roger G3YRO _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Re: Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
A absolut PERFECT explanation about the present situation and the future of our loved hobby. Unfortunately most young new Hams I have seen started using FT 8, has already gone qrt. No challenge, no skill. I will NOT discuss this any further. Please consider,and we will see what will happen. Have a nice week-end Hans SM6CVX > 11 jan 2020 kl. 15:32 skrev Roger Kennedy : > > > It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby > - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the > hobby. > > Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively > involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the > 1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those > people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby. > People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work > stations 50 miles away. > > However, most new amateurs that did that very quickly got bored with the > hobby, as there was no sense of achievement, no reason to self-improve . . . > and disappeared off the air. Those that got the satisfaction of working > stations further away through their own efforts were usually the ones that > sustained interest in the hobby. > > (It's interesting that there is almost NO activity on the various Repeaters > here in Britain these days . . . which kind of confirms my point!) > > I think it's the same logic that many of us apply to the computer-based > modes/protocols . . . that there is no skill involved, and so no real sense > of achievement, like there is when puling a really weak DX station out of > the noise . . . with the result that those people will very soon lose > interest in the hobby. > > So those of you who are so keen on them, please at least understand our > motives . . . it's because of our passion for the hobby that we are against > these computer-based modes . . . in the same way as I personally am against > VHF Repeaters or accessing remote Transmitting or even Receiving sites. > > Roger G3YRO > > _ > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
Topband: New Modes, Systems, etc
It's easy to appreciate why many people - who are passionate about the hobby - get upset about some of the things they see as being very negative to the hobby. Here in Britain there were LOTS of well-respected Amateurs who were actively involved in Jamming the VHF Repeaters when they first came on the air in the 1970s. I would never have done such a thing, but I appreciated why those people were concerned about it having a negative effect on the hobby. People could now not bother to put up a decent antenna for 2m, yet work stations 50 miles away. However, most new amateurs that did that very quickly got bored with the hobby, as there was no sense of achievement, no reason to self-improve . . . and disappeared off the air. Those that got the satisfaction of working stations further away through their own efforts were usually the ones that sustained interest in the hobby. (It's interesting that there is almost NO activity on the various Repeaters here in Britain these days . . . which kind of confirms my point!) I think it's the same logic that many of us apply to the computer-based modes/protocols . . . that there is no skill involved, and so no real sense of achievement, like there is when puling a really weak DX station out of the noise . . . with the result that those people will very soon lose interest in the hobby. So those of you who are so keen on them, please at least understand our motives . . . it's because of our passion for the hobby that we are against these computer-based modes . . . in the same way as I personally am against VHF Repeaters or accessing remote Transmitting or even Receiving sites. Roger G3YRO _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
