Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
earwaxer9;631466 Wrote: > Now that I think of it... Since Logitech bought Squeeze there really > hasnt been the rate of development and refinement that you would expect > from a company as advanced as Logitech. That's not a new observation. Actually, it didn't start when Logitech bought Squeezebox. At first, there was a flurry of activity, they added a number of new developers for the product line, and made some nice enhancements. Unfortunately, the product was derailed by a succession of poor marketing managers and the resultant mediocre sales. Now, there are maybe two or three full-time people left, plus whatever time some of the former developers can squeeze in when they're not working on other projects. QA resources have also been slashed, which can be seen in the many problems with the recent 7.5.3 and 7.5.4 releases. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
Now that I think of it... Since Logitech bought Squeeze there really hasnt been the rate of development and refinement that you would expect from a company as advanced as Logitech. I'm a tech geek type of guy so I like the challenge that comes with the tremendous flexibility built into these devices. The software side of things still has a very "open source" flavor. Thats endearing in a way, but there are many consumers who, rightly so, expect more. -- earwaxer9 System: modified Winsome Labs Mouse, modified Maggie MMG's, Transporter, HSU sub 12, MSB DAC to 500 watt sub slave amp, JPS labs power cords, Silver audio interconnect, Audioquest Granite speaker cable. earwaxer9's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39527 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
thomaskristensen;629305 Wrote: > Of course Apple makes mistakes as does everybody. But after having > migrated from Windows computers to Macs, my monthly computer > maintenance time has dropped to nearly zero as opposed to the up to ten > hours I could spend on that with Windows computers. I'm not saying Mac's > are better, I'm just saying I spend less time tending to computer > problems than I ever done before. My maintenance of windows has also dropped to zero after upgrading to Windows 7. My oldest laptop (6 years old) got a new lease on life this way and it only cost me 50$. I'm running Windows 7 at work and we have 4 PC's running Windows 7 at home and I can say there is no maitenance a part from Adobe bugging me to update flash every second week. Please don't compare a 5 year old Windows XP computer with a brand new Mac running brand new OS. Windows 7 is every bit as good as OSX. -- Letten Sboxes: Duet, Classic, Radio, 2 Boom's Server: HP Laptop, Core i5-540M, 4Gb DDR3, WOL (Wake-on-lan), 1.7watt suspended, Windows 7, SBS 7.5.3 Router: Linksys WRT54G wireless Letten's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16718 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
thomaskristensen;629730 Wrote: > Funny, I don't feel limited in any possible way by my Macs. > > Cheers, > Thomas That's what Corolla owners say about Corollas :) j/k... -- mbg mbg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
Funny, I don't feel limited in any possible way by my Macs. Cheers, Thomas -- thomaskristensen thomaskristensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=46308 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
thomaskristensen;629305 Wrote: > my monthly computer maintenance time has dropped to nearly zero as > opposed to the up to ten hours I could spend on that with Windows > computers. When I was younger, I broke Windows all the time, too. After having learned to follow the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" rule, I don't spend much time maintaining Windows. The genious of Apple, is that they don't give their users anything to fix (i.e. break) in the first place. Limited functionality always leads to increased stability. -- Soulkeeper -that is not dead which can eternal lie. and with strange aeons even death may die.- touch + duet + boom + radio / wrt160n/dd-wrt / sbs 7.5.1 or higher/win7(32b)/avira free Soulkeeper's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=35297 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
Of course Apple makes mistakes as does everybody. But after having migrated from Windows computers to Macs, my monthly computer maintenance time has dropped to nearly zero as opposed to the up to ten hours I could spend on that with Windows computers. I'm not saying Mac's are better, I'm just saying I spend less time tending to computer problems than I ever done before. And I still think Logitechs QA sucks big time... Cheers, Thomas -- thomaskristensen thomaskristensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=46308 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
erland;629279 Wrote: > > ... > I don't expect everything to work on a computer but I do expect > everything to work on a music streaming device like the Squeezebox, the > Logitech quality assurance have a lot of improvement potential if they > are just willing to spend the necessary resources on it. > ... +1 I have bought three SBs so far and had to have two of them replaced directly after purchase (that is a 67% failure rate btw). I sure hope Logitech will wake up someday and realize the untapped potential in the SB division (and then fund it properly). After all, who needs mice etc for tablet computers (e.g.)? -- copperstate copperstate's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34756 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
aubuti;629196 Wrote:
>
> But seriously, companies much larger than Logitech (including one
> beginning with the letter M) have a long history of releasing software
> updates that create new problems. That doesn't make it right, but I
> would think it would influence your expectations.
>
I usually try to avoid defending Microsoft, I really don't like their
junk, but from a quality assurance perspective they are pretty
impressive. Sure, there are a lot of bugs but when you think about the
various hardware and software environment it has to work in you realize
it's impossible for them to test every possible hardware and software
combination. It's also based on the fact that you more or less have to
install a lot of third party stuff on top of the operating system to be
able to use it for something, so that increases the risk that some third
party software breaks something.
Instead of quality assurance, their main problem is that their
operating system has been fundamentally written from the bottom up to
be easy to break when installing a lot of third party stuff.
slate;629259 Wrote:
> and the iFruit never makes mistakes?!
> well they do not want to admit to then
>
They do, but the bugs gets less visible for a number of reasons:
- Less functionality: The operating system and applications are focused
on what most people need and not bloatware based on what every possible
user might need in some kind of situation.
- Less users: Less people that will run the system and find bugs.
- Proper integration of third party apps: Installation of third party
applications based on the fact that separate applications should
neither share configuration nor binaries.
- Less hardware variants: They only allow installation on their own
hardware which they've verified the software against, this makes the
quality assurance a lot easier.
Their focus on simplicity and trouble free system is the thing that
really does it for me, I've never been able to accomplish a fast
computer that just works on a Windows or Linux desktop so far, Linux
fulfills the speed requirements but you tend to pretty quickly end up
manually editing configuration files or searching on Internet how to
attach some new hardware. I'm still using Linux on one of my desktops
but that's mainly used for development.
thomaskristensen;629193 Wrote:
> When I get a message that an upgrade to my system is available, I assume
> the upgrade will improve my system, not break it. I think its fair to
> expect a company the size of Logitech is able to do some kind of
> testing before deploying upgrades to customers.
>
> Call me naive, but I expect any and all software upgrades to be of high
> quality. Otherwise the vendor isn't doing their job IMHO.
>
I don't expect everything to work on a computer but I do expect
everything to work on a music streaming device like the Squeezebox, the
Logitech quality assurance have a lot of improvement potential if they
are just willing to spend the necessary resources on it.
Their problem is similar to Microsoft, they don't have control of the
environment, especially they don't have control of the computer
hardware and/or software SBS is running on and the tagging software and
file encoding software people use.
However, I do expect firmware releases and mysqueezebox.com releases to
be rock solid because that's an environment they do have full control of
and should be able to test properly. There have been way too many
problems related to mysqueezebox.com during the last 1-2 years,
especially in Europe.
Still, many of the bugs that exists are related to some specific
environment or configuration and doesn't affect all users.
--
erland
Erland Isaksson ('My homepage' (http://erland.isaksson.info))
(Developer of 'many plugins/applets'
(http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/User:Erland). If my answer
helped you and you like to encourage future presence on this forum
and/or third party plugin/applet development, 'donations are always
appreciated' (http://erland.isaksson.info/donate))
erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124
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Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
and the iFruit never makes mistakes?! well they do not want to admit to then -- slate Main: Receiver (Audiocom) -> Beresford Caiman+ (Gatorized) -> Carver A-500x -> B&W 704 Office: Receiver -> Luxman L-210 -> Stax SR84 Pro/Superlux HD668B Server: Zotac IONITX-A, 4 GB, 1 TB WD EADS, Win7 w. 7.6 (SQLite w. High Mem) Tied together by D-Link DIR-655 + DGS-1008D slate's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30502 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
Okay, then amend my earlier statement to "naïve with a good sense of self-deprecating humor and irony". -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
aubuti;629196 Wrote: > Okay: you're naïve. :-) > > But seriously, companies much larger than Logitech (including one > beginning with the letter M) have a long history of releasing software > updates that create new problems. That doesn't make it right, but I > would think it would influence your expectations. Which is exactly why I don't touch Microsoft products and run only Apple hardware and software :-P Cheers, Thomas -- thomaskristensen thomaskristensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=46308 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
> some logs are reporting timeouts from fab4.squeezenetwork.com > > strangely, it's not only mysqeezebox.com malfunctioning, but this 'old' > website also... weird. it's just another name for the same server. -- Michael ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
aubuti;629196 Wrote: > Okay: you're naïve. :-) > > But seriously, companies much larger than Logitech (including one > beginning with the letter M) have a long history of releasing software > updates that create new problems. That doesn't make it right, but I > would think it would influence your expectations. I work with companies that have tens of thousands of employees all using computers of some sort and they are typically at least two years behind employing "new and improved" Microsoft Windows products. Too many people with too many unexpected problems, to be an early adopter of updates. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
some logs are reporting timeouts from fab4.squeezenetwork.com strangely, it's not only mysqeezebox.com malfunctioning, but this 'old' website also... weird. -- magnumpat magnumpat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43536 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
thomaskristensen;629193 Wrote: > Call me naive, but I expect any and all software upgrades to be of high > quality. Okay: you're naïve. :-) But seriously, companies much larger than Logitech (including one beginning with the letter M) have a long history of releasing software updates that create new problems. That doesn't make it right, but I would think it would influence your expectations. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
When I get a message that an upgrade to my system is available, I assume the upgrade will improve my system, not break it. I think its fair to expect a company the size of Logitech is able to do some kind of testing before deploying upgrades to customers. Call me naive, but I expect any and all software upgrades to be of high quality. Otherwise the vendor isn't doing their job IMHO. Cheers, Thomas -- thomaskristensen thomaskristensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=46308 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
You've had a Touch for a year and you haven't figured not to update a working system until it's proven in production for some period of time? Turn off the option in SBS that automatically notifies you that an upgrade is available. Then you won't get the upgrade message! -- ghostrider ghostrider's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18959 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
or roll it back to whatever version you were using before the update. See http://downloads.slimdevices.com, the same site where you'll find the nightly builds of 7.6.0 beta. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
I forgot to say that I use my own SB server on a Mac Mini Server. It has worked flawlessly until last weeks update. I'll see if I can figure out how to install 7.6 beta. Cheers, Thomas -- thomaskristensen thomaskristensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=46308 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
Mysqueezebox.com is a bust. Never worked reliably, never will. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
nicolas75;629019 Wrote: > FWIW, I had the same feeling after installing 7.5.3 > Same thing with 7.5.4 release candidate > Many people experienced the same thing. > > Before throwing it through the window, I decided to try 7.6 beta > Now almost everything is ok. > I don't use any plugin, only SBS server on a laptop, or TinySBS with a > usb stick. > I avoid direct connection to mysqueezebox.com which is not reliable. > > In my opinion, Logitech should have kept 7.5.2 until 7.6 is official. And I agree on using SbS. I always connect to my own SbS and things are generally rock solid. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
are you connected only to mysqueezebox.com? I assume so. There have been some problems this week with mysb.com (outages, etc.). So probably not related to your touch at all. But if you decide to trash it, I'll pay the postage to ship it to my house ;-) -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
Re: [SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
thomaskristensen;629012 Wrote: > I've had my SB Touch for nearly a year. It has worked ok most of the > time. I listen to internet radio all day long, from I get up in the > morning till I go to bed in the evening. Last week the SBT insisted on > installing an update. I accepted and since then the SBT has been > broken. > > I turn it on in the morning. It plays ok for maybe a couple of hours, > then it turns itself off. I turn it on again, it plays for three > minutes or so, then turns off. Rinse and repeat until I unplug it and > plug it in again. Then it can play for some time again before the whole > thing repeats itself. > > There are no sleep timers set, no wake up alarms or anything like that > set. There is nothing wrong with my network either. It's all in the SBT > and whatever the h... kind of crap update was installed on it. > > I am very close to simply ditch it. Life is just too short. > > /rant off > > /Thomas FWIW, I had the same feeling after installing 7.5.3 Same thing with 7.5.4 release candidate Before throwing it through the window, I decided to try 7.6 beta Now almost everything is ok. I don't use any plugin, only SBS server on a laptop, or TinySBS with a usb stick. I avoid direct connection to mysqueezebox.com which is not reliable. In my opinion, Logitech should have kept 7.5.2 until 7.6 is official. -- nicolas75 nicolas75's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15823 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
[SlimDevices: Touch] I hate SB Touch
I've had my SB Touch for nearly a year. It has worked ok most of the time. I listen to internet radio all day long, from I get up in the morning till I go to bed in the evening. Last week the SBT insisted on installing an update. I accepted and since then the SBT has been broken. I turn it on in the morning. It plays ok for maybe a couple of hours, then it turns itself off. I turn it on again, it plays for three minutes or so, then turns off. Rinse and repeat until I unplug it and plug it in again. Then it can play for some time again before the whole thing repeats itself. There are no sleep timers set, no wake up alarms or anything like that set. There is nothing wrong with my network either. It's all in the SBT and whatever the h... kind of crap update was installed on it. I am very close to simply ditch it. Life is just too short. /rant off /Thomas -- thomaskristensen thomaskristensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=46308 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87457 ___ Touch mailing list Touch@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/touch
