Re: [Trisquel-users] Free Software and 3D Graphics: nVida, AMD/Radeon or Integrated Graphics?
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Re: [Trisquel-users] Next Trisquel LTS
Rubén actually did that already with Trisquel 5.5. I think it was a hack of Gnome pieces though for the fallback. I'm not involved in the development aspect of Trisquel and haven't done development really for a long time (well, I occasionally file bug reports, and work on customising a particular distribution for mostly personal use, but that hardly counts, and occasionally a little coding). All in all I'm not sure this fallback design choice is the best way to continue forward. I understand the problem and and see why it was done though. A combination of factors. It would require more work to support two versions basically (fallback and 3d). The project doesn't really have the resources to maintain two versions. I think ultimately we shouldn't sacrifice features just because some users haven't got the supported hardware. What matters is that the 3d Unity is free (and other similar components we can use) and that there do exist graphics chipsets with free drivers that we can use. Moving forward means telling users that there bad choices have caught up with them and a hardware upgrade is now required to continue using Trisquel. This will have a positive impact on future support as it increases the demand for free software compatible hardware. It gives people a reason to support free software who might otherwise not (people who are using it for open source philosophical reasons rather than free software ones). This is a perfect example of why open source is an undesirable / less desirable position to take. It is actually kind of humorous. I'll leave the names unlisted to avoid an argument here although the people advocating open source or who say they just don't care get mad at those who follow the open source movement's position. As far as I'm concerned the only question about the transition to 3d is when will the appropriate time is to institute such a major change. I think that change should be made within the next two years probably. Ultimately people will have had a 3-6 year time span in which they could have purchased a free software compatible system. If we assume 4-6 is average very few people should be forced to upgrade who had no-choice at the time they purchased their system.
Re: [Trisquel-users] ThinkPenguin question regarding laptop monitors' resolutions
I'm guessing better resolution monitors aren't available then?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Next Trisquel LTS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/30/2012 06:39 AM, ch...@thinkpenguin.com wrote: Rubén actually did that already with Trisquel 5.5. I think it was a hack of Gnome pieces though for the fallback. I'm not involved in the development aspect of Trisquel and haven't done development really for a long time (well, I occasionally file bug reports, and work on customising a particular distribution for mostly personal use, but that hardly counts, and occasionally a little coding). All in all I'm not sure this fallback design choice is the best way to continue forward. I understand the problem and and see why it was done though. A combination of factors. It would require more work to support two versions basically (fallback and 3d). The project doesn't really have the resources to maintain two versions. That's the whole point. Canonical + the Ubuntu community already support Gnome fallback in Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. Why reinvent that given the limited resources? [...] F. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: PGP/Mime available upon request Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/u2twACgkQfUcTXFrypNVGcwCgpNWrRmZPwH3t19X1eQNE6Emy 0jQAoOkiZNcWBeSa/fwZtBhkBwL473Ci =hYCE -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Trisquel-users] The Latest Intel CPUs without DRM
I'm still investigating this issue although if you want to avoid the Intel Insider we have one mobile solution that will work on the low end: Intel® Pentium® Processor B940 http://ark.intel.com/products/55626/Intel-Pentium-Processor-B940-%282M-Cache-2_00-GHz%29 I'm going to investigate further. From the little research I've done there appears to be no way to avoid Intel Insider. I've only reviewed the Intel i3's thus far. I couldn't find any info on these so they may be OK: i3-2340UE i3-2310E We would need to confirm this. Intel's site doesn't confirm it has or does not have Intel Insider. These don't have the Trusted Execution Technology.
Re: [Trisquel-users] The Latest Intel CPUs without DRM
I've all but confirmed that there is no way to avoid Intel Insider in 3rd generation CPUs and 2nd generation i3. The above two CPUs are for embedded systems. I've only checked mobile CPUs. For mobile CPUs I can confirm the Intel B940 will work though if you want to avoid Intel Insider and Trusted Execution Technology. While I'd rather us not offer these processors as an option in the first place there isn't a way to avoid it. If you have any ideas let me know. All things considered it's up to you to simply not use the software which relies on it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] The Latest Intel CPUs without DRM
Thanks for looking into this, Chris, and for your suggestion about the B940. I think Intel must have been updating/correcting their database for the information about their chips on the Intel webpage this past couple of days. I have been making enquiries, too and details on the webpage have changed, I am sure! As you say, there seems to be no way of getting around Intel Insider, unless you go back a very long way. Another awful feature that they have is Intel Anti-Theft Technology. It enables Intel to remotely shut down your computer, and stop it from restarting, even if all the data on the hard drive is deleted and reinstalled! Amazingly, they are meant to be able to do this even without an internet connection! They must use some kind of black-magic! :) I have asked Intel for a list of CPUs that support this, and they couldn't help me. I have e-mailed them about it and am waiting to hear. Anti-Theft technology runs on a platform, so perhaps it is also necessary for there to be a motherboard/chipset that supports it too. The more I have looked into what the latest hardware does, the more appalled I have become. I think in this day and age, newer definitely does not always mean better. When did this all start going wrong? Which was it, XP or Windows 2000 that was the last Microsoft edition before they really started nailing the consumer?
Re: [Trisquel-users] The Latest Intel CPUs without DRM
Can you point me to an article on Intel insider that is written up by an organisation like the FSF or any one with a free software slant.
Re: [Trisquel-users] ThinkPenguin question regarding laptop monitors' resolutions
If there was more demand we could offer a 15.6 model with a 1920x1080 screen. It would be a 16:9 ratio and not 16:10 or 4:3. The entertainment industry killed 16:10 and 4:3 ratios so we can't do them now. We are limited by what others in the industry are also demanding to some degree. There are only a handful of actual manufacturers for any given part and while we can change a design and select the technologies/chipsets/design to a degree it's still limited by the screens being manufactured and other technology. We can't force Intel for instance to remove Intel Insider from some of its CPUs so that we can ship a design that is freedom friendly. If more manufacturers demanded it then maybe we could.. but they aren't. While we can definitely do this 1920x1080 configuration today there isn't enough demand for it. So we aren't. There is good news though in regards to getting a laptop with a middle of the roads higher resolution screen. We are able to produce a 15.6 model with a 1600x900 screen and Intel HD graphics today (we think- we are talking with the manufacturing guys). At the moment the reference design includes a fingerprint reader that we aren't prepared to support and are having it removed. That'll take some time as it is a standard feature and need a different part in our design that doesn't exist (even though there is a reference for the other part). We have to wait 1-3 months for this modification/testing. The model is also a newer model that the technology isn't yet available for. And we can't do something sooner because the old tech is being discontinued. The new model though is similar to the old model (again- its just a reference design, not something we actually have). A guesstimate as to its availability is August/September time frame if everything goes smoothly.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Installing 5.5 on Toshiba Notebook
There is absolutely no way to produce a laptop based on x86 technology that is perfect. Everything is a compromise. Intel and AMD's tech is incorporating digital restrictions in the CPU. At least for the moment you can avoid proprietary graphics drivers by going with Intel and still get a system without TXT or Intel Insider. Going forward though I'm doubtful that you will be able to avoid at least the Intel Insider and equivalent. Until we have a non-x86 solution there will be compromises. What we really need is more demand from the GNU/Linux community for free software products (not just hardware). In this case its laptops. It may be possible to manufacture a non-x86 laptop with a 15.6 screen that doesn't have TXT, Intel Insider, a proprietary BIOS, or other microcode (or equivalent tech). However you (the GNU/Linux / free software user) need to demand it. And you do that by buying the least restrictive solutions available today. Simply donating to free software developers isn't going to increase the demand for the hardware. We definitely need to contribute to development although we also need to increase demand for whatever the least restrictive tech this community can get get today is (hardware wise). This way we can eventually get the demand up to a point where we can go to China and get a non-x86 design manufactured without the issues we see now. Things are getting better in some areas. non-x86 CPUs are getting faster for instance. Even though Trisquel is a tiny distribution it's actually positively impacting the demand for free software compatible hardware. It's helping to sustain ThinkPenguin. And that is letting us move forward with various projects. Including gaining support from larger distributions. I'm working with the lead developers from some of the major distributions (which currently include non-free software). Many/most want to see free software friendly hardware on the market. I don't believe they are against free software and certainly there is no question about there being overlapping objectives. It's just not feasible for most users to adopt free software right now (exclusively) and I believe everybody (free and open source) wants to get rid of it. There is not a single Trisquel user who has not made a comprise. You simply can't get a system that is 100% free of these issues.That doesn't mean you don't support free software though. You just do the best you can do. So to entirely shame users who are dependant on non-free software or not helping them move off it is counter productive. I have no problem telling users the problem with non-free software and why they should get rid of it. For the most part we don't support non-free software either. Again though- nothing is 100% free technically- and there are some exceptions we will make like: supporting those who are moving away from proprietary solutions.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel Trusted Computing
Yea- that is it.
[Trisquel-users] How to boot in terminal only
Hello everybody! I have a question, how to boot in terminal without starting gdm, x11 on 5.5 version? I do not want to delete gdm or X, just would like to add or change some parameters to GRUB or other place to boot only in terminal and if I need X I always can startx. I have tried: sudo nano /etc/default grub find GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=quiet splash and change it to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=quiet splash text and of course sudo update-grub Unfortunately it did not work. Still booting into gdm login manager. Thank you for your help.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel Trusted Computing
Is an Intel CPU with the absolutely appaling TXT technology on its own impotent? Does it require support from the chipset/motherboard to actually function? Are there many motherboards/chipsets that allow you to turn off the functionality of the TXT hardware?
Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel Trusted Computing
At least some models with a TPM can disable it in the BIOS settings.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to boot in terminal only
Looks like you need to edit /etc/init/gdm.conf and change the startup on line which reads [!06] to [!026] so the default runlevel 2 is also omitted. If you then want to start gdm use sudo service gdm start.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to boot in terminal only
Hi, You could move /etc/init/gdm.conf somewhere else. When you reboot, the x display will not start. HTH, Dave On 06/30/2012 10:37 AM, veiso...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everybody! I have a question, how to boot in terminal without starting gdm, x11 on 5.5 version? I do not want to delete gdm or X, just would like to add or change some parameters to GRUB or other place to boot only in terminal and if I need X I always can startx. I have tried: sudo nano /etc/default grub find GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=quiet splash and change it to GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=quiet splash text and of course sudo update-grub Unfortunately it did not work. Still booting into gdm login manager. Thank you for your help.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Next Trisquel LTS
Ruben didn't include Unity with the 5.5 ISO and when we tried to install it manually, it would not show up in LightDM or GDM selections. Kinda odd and when someone of us asked for a fix, there were crickets. I do know what you mean though by including both Unity 2D and Unity 3D with the install and if 3D works fine with free drivers, then cool. If not, the user can always change to 2D. We shouldn't be denied choice. I've tested having both Gnome Fallback and Unity 2D/3D on the standard Ubuntu 12.04 install and it works fine. Since Gnome Fallback's look is independent from Unity, there should be no problem having both. Especially with the 12.04 codebase being improved over the 11.10 codebase. Come on Ruben... at least give it a shot.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Next Trisquel LTS
I'm 43 and Fluxbox makes me coo like a baby. It it were only copyleft it would be perfect. Not that it would be appropriate for the default. ...but I digress.
Re: [Trisquel-users] How to boot in terminal only
You could also mess with this file: /etc/X11/default-display-manager It might be nicer than moving the gdm.conf file.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Trisquel Trusted Computing
I don't consider TXT to really be a deciding factor. I think having a system that works with free software is the number one priority. TXT is avoidable and so we should avoid it. However the handful of users who are avoiding the technology are not relevant to Intel. It's just too small a customer base. The thing is there isn't much we can do individually right now to discourage this kind of technology. Even if we all individually purchased systems without TXT it wouldn't have an impact. The best way to discourage this is by creating new companies that apply free software philosophy. If these companies get large enough they will have an influence on the market. Right now there aren't a whole lot of companies though... I can think of maybe two and I run one. The other is www.eztakes.com.
[Trisquel-users] Re : Next Trisquel LTS
For the Trisquel project to thrive (and everybody here hopes it will!), it needs *new* users, i.e., most people who will use Trisquel in 4-6 do not even know about it now (they may not even know about the GNU/Linux operating system). By imposing specific hardware to run the default Trisquel, the project would shoot itself in the foot (French but maybe not international expression). I agree that this argument has limits: the system must remain useful and attractive for people who purposefully buy freedom-friendly hardware. Trisquel will never choose a terminal-only default to have the best hardware compatibility! Unless I have completely misunderstood something, Fedora developers have made GNOME Shell work the same with or without 3D acceleration (in the latter case, the work is carried out by the CPU, which is, today, powerful enough). As a consequence, from the perspective of hardware compatibility, GNOME Shell looks perfect.
[Trisquel-users] Re : How to boot in terminal only
I vote for lembas' solution that looks far less cow-boy than others. After all, a init script aims to decide what service to start/stop (and how to do so).
[Trisquel-users] query about shell scripting
I want to know what is the default shell in Trisquel 5.5. I am particularly having problems running arrays in shell in Ubuntu but works fine in Open-suse. (Inputting names in array and printing them) I get an error bad variable name. Does this problem occur in Trisquel 5.5? If this problem does not occur in Trisquel then provide me a sample format of a shell program to input 5 names and printing them. and how to run the shell program file ( I mean the specific command to run the file from terminal).
Re: [Trisquel-users] query about shell scripting
The default shell is bash, but other shells are available in the repositories too.
Re: [Trisquel-users] query about shell scripting
Bash is the default interactive shell (i.e. for the user terminal). But system scripts are usually run with /bin/sh, which in Trisquel is provided by dash.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Next Trisquel LTS
I just remembered something that I believe Rubén said (I'm not sure who else I might have talked to about this issue, and this would have been a while back). Basically I think the issue with Unity is not a freedom issue. It's got to do with tracking/privacy. Unity or at least Ubuntu is well integrated / tied into Ubuntu's services. They let you store data remotely for instance. It may be this or something related to this. Although I wouldn't think that was tied to Unity. The back end being proprietary might explain why it isn't really a good fit for Trisquel or other distributions. Does anybody know of a distribution other than Ubuntu using Unity? My perception is there aren't any although the reason I thought most were not using it (probably right about this) is that a large percentage of users don't like it.
Re: [Trisquel-users] Next Trisquel LTS
If that was referring to my comment I'll repeat the part about the future. The last I checked even recycling centers which refurbish systems with GNU/Linux for kids / and other organisations are not taking systems that terribly old. I'd think it could easily be done with 3d acceleration as many of these systems are already low end and utilise intel graphics. Ultimately they get more systems than they can actually utilise.
