Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
Welcome back.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
I'm leaving trisquel and gnu/linux altogether.I might give open bsd a try as a desktop. I hear their founders and community leaders actually pride its default security. Otherwise I'll juts stick with windows which i use for gaming anyways, and since i care more about malcious hackers then I do the NSA lol.
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"Then there’s the difference in licensing that Linux and the BSD family use. While both use open source licenses, Linux uses the GPL which favors users by forcing developers to release any of their modifications to GPL-licensed software as open source and with the same license. The BSD family uses the BSD license, which favors developers by allowing them to take open source software, make modifications to it, and then keep it proprietary if they wish rather than forcing them to release their changes as open source (although they still could if they wanted)." --- Source: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/linux-vs-bsd-which-should-you-use/ In other words, choosing BSD is going for more security indeed (no expert, but it sounds like overkill). But that can be argued: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBSD_security_features The GNU C library didn't include these functions because to them it leads to other errors. So BSD is much less flexible, probably even more secure (but that sounds like overkill), but certainly not privacy friendly since you're at the mercy of the developer's whim. Also I doubt Microsoft will change their ways by 2020. And they don't give a damn about your privacy. As for security, it's not as good as GNU/Linux, period. Following your reasoning (you want more security and privacy), you don't make much sense in your choices. But you're free to leave Trisquel if you want.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
Sorry, bad wording on my part. Let me clarify: I meant that following the quote on licensing AND the alleged security extras that OpenBSD seems to be known for (from the URLs), then follows the rest of my answer.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
No problem, I definitely need to work on better organizing and communicating my thoughts.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
all this talk about licenses is why i stopped going in the #gnu room on irc. I'm not interested.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
If you're concerned about security, try Qubes OS.
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Linux voted as the most vulnerable OS? No, it's about the kernel, and even that is a wrong representation. Here's an interesting quote: "The reason why only Linux Kernel and Apple OS X are listed at the top is because the number of vulnerabilities that specifically apply to other Linux distributions (like Red Hat, Debian, etc.) is lower than the number of vulnerabilities that apply to the operating systems already listed. For example (...): Ubuntu 39 total vulnerabilities7 high severity 27 medium severity5 low severity" -- http://www.gfi.com/blog/most-vulnerable-operating-systems-and-applications-in-2014/ Also, the vast majority of security holes are not related to the OS. The user is always the weakest link. don't do stupid shit, and even on Windows you should be ok against malicious hackers. -- http://www.csoonline.com/article/2137210/security-awareness/studies-prove-once-again-that-users-are-the-weakest-link-in-the-security-chain.html On the other hand, on Windows you'll have all your life recorded by corporations and governments. You won't even have control of your own data. And it's clearly written in their licence, or whatever is that thing you click "I agree" on. With free software, you are not at the developer's whim thanks to the licensing. It means that legally, you and others can know how it's made under the hood. That's a level of control that you don't have in OpenBSD if the developer makes his code private. A free software developer can't change his mind and make his code private after licencing it as free software. That boring licencing stuff is exactly what protects your privacy. But again, do what you want. It's your life. All I know is that your feelings about GNU/Linux security in general are not justified. And for privacy, Windows is obviously one of the worst choices. OpenBSD isn't a good one, but not as bad I guess.
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"all this talk about licensing is why i stopped going in the #gnu room on irc. I'm not interested." --I understand. Intellectual enrichment isn't interesting to most people. "As far as BSD being less private because i'm at the developers whim? How would that be diff then any o/s?" --BSD programs can easily be made proprietary, binary-only, programs. This doesn't make OpenBSD have less "privacy," it just means derivatives may allow you less freedoms, and hypothetically, privacy. "This is exemplified by the project's slogan: 'Only two remote holes in the default install, in a heck of a long time!'" --In the **default install**. If you only use the default software (Not enough for a desktop OS), then yes, OpenBSD is more secure than GNU/Linux and Windows. But you aren't going to only use the default install, I can guarantee you that. You're going to use third-party software from the ports tree, which is pretty much going to compromise the extra security gained from using OpenBSD in the first place. For desktops, GNU/Linux and OpenBSD are equally secure. I seriously can't stress how vital the two words "default install" are to properly assess this scenario. "As for windows, i'm not expecting windows to change its ways by 2020. I'm just going to stop using it altogether at that time. But I still feel more secure using windows, which I use for gaming, then I do gnu/linux." --You feel more secure using Windows? Why? You already know that you're leaving gaping holes for the NSA and Microsoft-- that's the complete opposite of safe! What doublethink! "Even though linux has been voted most vulnerable operating for the first time by many, these past two years, I have my own reasons for believing that." --Was that supposed to be a sentence? " It still really boils down to what exactly you do on your computer, how much of a target you are, (everyone is one to some degree) and how capable of an administrator you are." --Indeed it does boil down to what you do. If you run proprietary software on your computer, for example, you are much more vulnrable to domestic and third-party attacks than with free software. "I shall see how I fair with openbsd now." --Good luck. You should use LibertyBSD, rather than OpenBSD, though. LibertyBSD is wholly free, and doesn't use and non-free firmware blobs. I have a mirror up here: http://jadedmeta.net/mirrors/libertybsd/
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
cool
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
Ah I see, thanks for the clarification. I made a couple of assumptions here. So the software heritage can be turned proprietary by anyone if it's not free software (copyleft) but under a permissive free software license. and the copyleft author can change his mind. That's surprising (but it's not like I understand how licensing works in general).
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
>all this talk about licensing is why i stopped going in the #gnu room on irc. I'm not interested. Then according to your own interests, you should stop “going here” as well, because you will find mostly the same attitude regarding licensing. If you can't grasp the importance of licensing, then #gnu is no worser without you. >But I still feel more secure using windows, which I use for gaming, then I do gnu/linux. Then use it if you judge it apropriate. You can find plenty of arguments and evidence to the contrary using a search engine. We (free software enthusiast, security researchers, plain users, and so) sometimes post our experience and the inferences made thereof in the hope it is useful, but hardly anybody is going to try to fix your reasoning if you do not want to listen. Also, you should learn the meaning of the words you use before you use them. Here you should have used “than”, not “then”.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
"I'm leaving trisquel and gnu/linux altogether. (for the 3rd time) I might give open bsd a try as a desktop. I hear their founders and community leaders actually pride its default security" if your using a bsd distro you should use liberybsd its based on openbsd but with the non-free software removed if you want privacy you wont get it running software you cant even see the source code for the libertybsd website is currently down for some reason but theres a mirror here: http://delwink.com/pub/LibertyBSD/ i am not sure if bsd is that much better than gnu/linux when it comes to privacy though "Otherwise I'll juts stick with windows" "since i care more about malcious hackers then I do the NSA lol. " and you don’t class the NSA as "malicious hackers"? also windows is a very insecure operating system in genrel not just from the NSA
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" But I still feel more secure using windows, which I use for gaming, then I do gnu/linux." what do you base that on? as you cant even rely check how secure windows is as the source code is not available
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
He bases that on the fact that he's a TROLL.
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It's worth clarifying that the author changing the license doesn't affect the license of the copy you got before that happened, i.e. it doesn't cause that license to be revoked. So if Linux were made proprietary tomorrow, it would still be perfectly legal to continue to distribute the version that was released under the GNU GPL, under those same terms.
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The dev of that distro messaged me one time asking me to try it out.But I have never tried it yet. Vms and tor don't sound like an enjoyable experience, but the real reason is i feel I would rather have a real test machine to install it on which I don't have available at the moment. Or I probably would give it a shot now.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
Based on the fact my linux is always getting destroyed after pissing people off on IRC, or in gaming communities.And the fact my windows hasn't got hacked since windows xp.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
Its mostly because of things like shellshock and heartbleed, Things like jellyfish etc... linux is becoming more and more of a viable target for the big fish.
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A default install and throughly audited code, is the core base foundation of any secure system. I mean to say its pointless we might as well go so far as to say why use any firewall since we can all be possibly socially engineered. I'm not worried as much about the NSA or or MS, I guess because unlike most of you nerds who live in a bubble, I actually have gotten hacked from pissing people off online. I've known professional criminals who have hacked people for a living. I have gotten major historic viruses since I was a child the govt and microsoft are the least of my worries because I am a conscious individual. Judge things for yourself not by what others tell you. You guys will say i'm just a paranoid and delusional noob, but thats how I feel about you. I'm going with openbsd, because its devs pride themselves in their security. Who knows, I might not like it and stick with my hardened trisquel until something better comes along.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
Yes i'm no longer going into the irc room, and won't be posting on threads here anymore either. I have a grim view of the free software movement and the people invovled in it right now. I"m embarrassed to be associated with it now, just like the people who claim they support it.
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You're missing the point, which is predictable. Its not about pissing people off anonymously. I'm using the same screen name i've had since junior high, since before aol. The only other account i've had registered on freenode was my real name. I registered on this forum with my full name. And as for me "not encrypting", its impossible have full encrypted communications unless everyone you communicate with is encrypting too. No tor, is not an enjoyable experience. I'm not about total anonymity, I never was, maybe because I've always been against cheaters in video games. Although, since sameer-isa decloaked me in the irc room, i've only used tor since to log into the trisquel webiste...lol
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
I'm curious as to what contradictions you speak of...
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People like Supertramp83, Calinou, Basstard, using debian, and/or proprietary drivers. People like jxself and others linking me rms videos and gnu documentation, and claiming using free software for privacy and security reasons is not as important as the "ethical" reaosns. Being unable to express what "ethical means themselves, when to me I interpret "having full control over software you won" and "being able to share it with others", being "unethical" for security and privacy reasons. When there is a community of people that seem to be against themselves, its not wonder why the rest of society can't respect it or take it as seriously as other projects and movements.
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> "People like Supertramp83, Calinou, Basstard, using debian, and/or proprietary drivers." I can't vouch for Basstard, but I'm almost certain that Calinou and Supertramp aren't using propreitary drivers. If memory serves, they are using Debian, however. Debian is a great fully free distribution, just like Trisquel, as long as you don't enable the non-free repository. > "People like jxself and others linking me rms videos and gnu documentation, and claiming using free software for privacy and security reasons is not as important as the "ethical" reasons. Even though thats why most people would want to use it over the alternatives." Um, that's not contradictory at all. It's quite the opposite. The free software movement is primarilly about ethics, with practicality, security, and privacy being great side-effects. > "Being unable to express what the 'ethical' reasons are themselves, when to me I interpret not 'having full control over software you own' and 'being able to share it with others', being 'unethical' for security and privacy reasons just as much as any other reason." OK. You have a differing view. That doesn't make their statements contradictory. > "When there is a community of people that seem to be against themselves and standing for nothing, its no wonder why the rest of society can't respect it or take it as seriously as other projects or movements." Considering your prior statements, it seems to me that you have a weak understanding of the free software movement...
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
You keep coming off as someone who thinks people who program the software are more entitled to have control over it, then those that don't. Do you hear how you sound? I'm not a developer or programmer, so I'm beneath you it seems. You are the ones focusing on specific features, when you seperate "ethics' from privacy and security. Which I still find ludicrous to do.
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1. You're wrong. Calinou admits it openly, he uses proprietary nvidia drivers, because he claims he can't run xonotic without it. Which i find hard to believe since I can run it with nouveau drivers on my gtx 650 perfectly fine. And when the game depends more on cpu then anything and he has an i7 lol. And like supertramp he uses debian, which super tramp has told me himself, Supertramp never used trisquel for more then a couple months, because it is not popular enough for him. Which means he must be emabarrased to use it. Or probably for prop vid drivers, which like calinou, he believes he needs for his gaming. As for basstard, Im only guessing he doesn't use trisquel only because of his actions in the room in how he demeans trisquel all the time. How he puts down francis and calls him a liar, which francis seems to like and how he does nothing but complain that trisquel is horrible to use. 2. As far as the claim to "ethics" as being more important then practicality, functionality, security and privacy... I feel they are all one and the same! Is just biggoted to claim otherwise. 3. Again, claiming their views are more important then mine, comes off self righteous. 4. I think its own members don't understand what they stand for, want to be different for the sake of it, and thats why society doesn't respect it like it should.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
It's really easy to use, and Tor is optional (not default) - Maybe you're thinking of Whonix?
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The BSD operating systems are popular with companies that like to take the code, make it locked down, and keep the improvements to themselves. Apple with OSX, Sony with their PlayStation 4, and Netflix come to mind. Netflix programmers are always at the conferences talking about how much they love BSD, but would never release code back. Why? They probably would list "competitive advantage" as one reason and fear of backlash from the mega media corporations as another.
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GNU/Linux has been a viable target for years; last time I checked, most servers ran GNU/Linux. That's why Heartbleed and Shellshock were a huge deal. If you honestly think that Windows doesn't have occasional bugs like this, you're naïve. In fact, we don't even know how many vulnerabilities Windows has had, because there's no guarantee that Microsoft is going to report the existence of one they discover and patch before anyone else notices. All software has bugs, and security vulnerabilities being caused by bugs is a simple fact of life.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
Being ethical is a property, not a feature.
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> Calinou admits it openly, he uses proprietary nvidia drivers, because he claims he can't run xonotic without it. Which i find hard to believe since I can run it with nouveau drivers on my gtx 650 perfectly fine. And when the game depends more on cpu then anything and I have a crappy amd phenom 2.8ghz he has an i7 lol. I haven't seen Calinou say this, and I don't know if what you say is true. But let's suppose it is, at least until Calinou clarifies. Firstly, if Calinou wants 3-D acceleration, it's hardly unethical for him to get it from a proprietary driver. It's almost entirely harming himself, not others. Xonotic is a libre game and doesn't require any proprietary software, or any hardware that requires proprietary software (I'm pretty sure it would run just fine on a Libreboot X200). Secondly, Nouveau doesn't work well for all Nvidia cards. The effort is largely hit-and-miss; it's reverse-engineering, after all. In fact, future Nvidia cards won't even be able to theoretically work with libre software, because Nvidia has started to require signed firmware with Maxwell GPUs. > How he puts down francis and calls him a liar, which francis seems to like That little bit gave me a chuckle.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
What do you do, run an SSH server all day with a weak password and then taunt millions of people to get them to invade your system? I'm sure I've pissed some people off before, but I'm not aware of anyone breaking into my system at all, let alone messing with my files.
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Can you believe this guy? I DON'T use any proprietary driver. AT ALL. I never told you I did. Why are you openly lying? What's your point? I NEVER SAID to no one that Trisquel is not good enough. What are you talking about? STOP TROLLING dude seriously. Can we people just stop feeding this mayor one?
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>Supertramp never used trisquel for more then a couple months, because it is not popular enough for him Never told you so. In fact I was using Trisquel exclusively for 5 months straight. Again, let's just ignore and not feed this troll
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I could vouch for super tramp that he does not use any proprietary drivers. I would like someone to feed me this guy to me, I got my Southern deep fry pan ready to pinch his soft-side of a troll coming from my repertoire of a nasty troller.
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I don't believe you! lol. Do you admit you use debian, and didn't use trisquel for more then a couple months? Why are you even here if you don't use trisquel!?!? What is your reason for preferring debian? You told me yourself you don't use trisquel because its not popular enough. I mean wowwhat a sorry excuse.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
nopeits just how easy it is.
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now you are, its about fkn time. Ty for changing your posts. You are not better then me cause you are a developer/programmer and I'm not. I'm glad you finally realize that. And if its no different then why argue with me on what reasons are more important to use free software? Would you rather free software stay unpopular so you can feel more special for using it yourself?
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
He has never used trisquel for more then a couple months. And how can you know he doesn't use proprietary drivers, are you on his machine? I use fedora in a laptop for my family because they need a proprietary wireless driver don't want to buy another card. But at least I'll admit it and not lie to myself and others. Trisquel is my main o/s there is no reason for me to use anything else.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
Why do you keep replying?
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
I thought you were leaving this forum. Why are you still here?
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
One should know how to define why something is ethical and why its not. Thats the reasons for using free software. And my point is, to say to someon their resons for using free software is not a good reason, and its more about the ethics. Explains nothing but self righteousness.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
5 months? thats all you lasted? And you indeed told me you don't use trisquel cause its not popular enough. SHame on you for being such a wussy. Be a fkn man. I heard the same thing from Calinou. You think debian is better cause its more "popular" lol gimme a break.
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If I posted the chat logs you would probably lie to yourself anyways. Tell me if you want me to and I will. I get 3d acceleration fron nouveau. He doesn't need the prop drivers with his i7. And he harms the community when he promotes it in #trisquel. Thirdly, i'm a gamer, I live for fps games and i'm known in many communities. And i have no issues playing xonotic with my nouveau driver. Because what matters more is your cpu, and Calinou has an i7!! gimme a break. As far as francis, i found it sad that francis doesn't even stick up for himself, and says hes known basstard for a long time and likes him talking to him like that because it motivates him. I find it crazy that he says himself he is pessimistic about free firmware. I mean no wonder purism gets more sponsorships. That was the last straw for me man lol. I can't be around you nuts. No wonder Supertramp is embarrassed to say he uses trisquel.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
They are popular for firewalls because they requires much less maintenance then linux. Its more about a set it and forget it thing.
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I know for a fact he doesn't use trisquel, because he told me himself. And his reasons are that trisquel is less popular? Either he is more of a wuss then I give him credit for, or that is not the real reason. The real reasons must be the same as every other user who prefers debian. And i know its not because its nescessary for him to have prop wireless drivers, since he has stated he bought a dongle for free drivers. So what else could it be? The fact he uses debian and not trisquel, makes him fake enough as it is.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
bTW, I Returned from trisquel6 to trisquel7 and not from bad distributions hh
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I don't think its something I can test in a vm. I need a test machine.
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Your last staement says it all, You don't care, and thats why society doesn't care about free software. I don't say they all boil down to privacy security, only thats what it boils down to for ME!modifying software to add features, is not important to me. But would never make a self righteous comment that its less important then my reasons.
Re: [Trisquel-users] returned to trisquel7
I gave you my reasons, privacy and security. Proprietary software is more likely to log keystrokes, spy on data, and those companies are more likely to sell information on you to data brokers, or ad companies. They are also more likely to install backdoors under pressure...etc.. These are not principles, they are real tangible things society can understand. When you say these things are not as important as "ethics", when in fact they would define ethics, you are come off as being under a false sense of importance and entitlement.
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wrong, that is what you do when you claim "ethics" is more important then privacy and security. I am trying to explain to you that they are one and the same. And anyones reasoning for using free software is no less important then another. By claiming otherwise, you drive people away.
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So i guess you understand why security is important. Since you now ask about privacy let me try to explain. Users deserve privacy, because if not things they do on their computer can be used against them. | For example, The same way to stasi used seemingly innocent information to blackmail people into doing things that would hurt others in their communities. Because things we do in private should sometimes stay private because it could lead to endangering others physical well being or hurt them mentally, when it is unnecessary or taken out of context. Because I don't believe users should be treated as a product for others gain, whether monetary or not.
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I'm only telling you of my personal experience.
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Shellshock and Heartbleed are your personal experience? Your computer has been attacked by people via these vulnerabilities? That must mean you run an OpenSSL server, though I can't imagine why you would do that, and that you're automatically executing commands in Bash based on information you get from the Internet, which again, I can't imagine a reason for a regular desktop user to do.
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"For example, The same way the stasi in nazi germany (...)" Major history-knowledge fail. just look up when the stasi was founded and when nazi germany ended
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For once, that's a good point. Guys, don't feed it ;)
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Those are partly why gnulinux has been voted most vulnerable operating system since 2013. Regarding your windows comment, my windows hasn't been destroyed since windows xp. In my opinion, people who think the nsa is more likley to compromise their system then some malicous hacking kid, some criminal, or some private researcher are the ones who are naive. In my personal experience, Only my gnulinux systems get constantly raped. So take that how you want..
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did you not read the rest of my post? lol...wow, let me repaste it for you. "For example, The same way the stasi in nazi germany used seemingly innocent information to blackmail people into doing things that would hurt others in their communities. Because things we do in private should sometimes stay private because it could lead to endangering others physical well being or hurt them mentally, when it is unnecessary and taken out of context or misunderstood. Because I don't believe users should be treated as a product unknowingly for others gain, whether monetary or not, for all the above reasons. These things can stall our human evolution." replace stasi with gestapo, nazi germany with post wwII, so i can be historically correct in case my point is missed and flies over you head...
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Ok secret service, gestapo, stasi, doesn't take away from the point.
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Pointing out that "ethics" is a better reason for using free software then privacy and security, makes this statement hypocritical. I don't need proof that he uses debian because its more popular then trisquel, because he told me that himself. I think thats being a wuss indeed. As for him using prop drivers, elementary my dear watson... I don't believe you can ever be sincerely part of this community, if you don't even use trisquel yourself. I guess thats an inconceivable notion to someone like you. And, imo, thats the main reason the free software community in general is not respected or popular.
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That's just plain bullshit. I've pissed off my fair share of people in IRC, even with a notoriously insecure IRC client (irssi, though it is still my favourite) and a plain connection and I have never even gotten a virus, let alone have people actively trying to hack me. It's ridiculous to argue that Windows is more secure than GNU. Or maybe it was just the extent to which you pissed them off. I wouldn't be surprised.
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> I am trying to explain to you that they are one and the same. BUULLSHIT! The driving factor behind free software is a principle- that users should have control over their computing. Is their any particular reason for this? No. Not really. It is a principle. It has no real objective justification- but the majority of people (I hope) would accept this as being right in and of itself. If you reject all principled arguments, you reject basically every argument ever- including your slavish adoration of security (though it puzzles me why you then go on to defend Windows), as well as your very right to life. Why should you not be shot in the face? Again, that too is based on principle. Principles matter, and should not just be rejected out of hand. If we abandon the principle of people not being arbitrarily killed, then society would essentially collapse. Principles are valid in and of themselves simply because people instinctively accept them. If the vast majority accept a given principle, then it is completely valid to base an argument on it. Privacy and security, on the other hand (which I think you'll find also boil down to a matter of principle) are features. People want privacy and security, and, due to the nature of free software and the fact that it evolves to meet its users needs (as opposed to those of Microsoft), those features are commonplace in free software. They're nice perks, and they constitute yet another reason to choose free software. But those features are not there for the sake of the features themselves- they are there because of the respect for the needs of the user inherent in free software. Why? Because principle. Please try to understand.
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> The same way to stasi used seemingly innocent information to blackmail people > into doing things that would hurt others in their communities. Why should the Stasi not use blackmail? Principle. Why should people not hurt others in their community? Principle. > things we do in private should sometimes stay private Principle. Also, I prefer 'always' as opposed to 'sometimes'. > it could lead to endangering others physical well being Why should people's physical well being not be endangered? Principle. > hurt them mentally Why should people not be hurt mentally? Principle. > Because I don't believe users should be treated as a product for others gain, > whether monetary or not. Pure, sweet, principle. Do you not see the contradiction?
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> i'm known in many communities I pity them.
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> Those are partly why gnulinux has been voted most vulnerable operating system > since 2013. Evidence, please. > my windows hasn't been destroyed since windows xp. That's because your Windows is 'destroyed' by default. Outside bodies control your computer from day one with Windows, and I'm surprised you don't seem to recognise this fact. > the nsa is more likley to compromise their system The NSA has control over your computer from day one with Windows. It is compromised by default. There is a 100% chance of the NSA compromising your computer, and there is a 100% chance of the NSA taking whatever it can get and stuffing it in a database because that is what the NSA *does*. How is this not malicious? Now that we've established that, which is more secure? Windows, which is compromised from day one not only by Microsoft and the megacorporations, but also the NSA and the intelligence apparatus, as well as providing shit security against the common hacker and/or virus. GNU, on the other hand, is free not only from corporate and government control, but also provides pretty damn good security against hackers, and is practically invulnerable to viruses.
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1. I don't think you read correctly, my windows hasn't been destroyed since windows xp, unlike linux that gets destroyed as soon as i install it and start voicing my opinions...lol 2. the nsa is not only NOT going to destroy my pc, there is little if any chance they will actually care enough about me to spy on me or share my data. 3. All that we have established is that are you delusional enough to believe the 40,000 strong nsa(half the size it was in the 60s) will be malicious against you, but the millions of script kiddies and cyber criminals won't? ... I can only give you my personal experience as someone who has actually been targeted by experienced malicious hackers.
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I pity you.
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then you disagree with GNU's definitions and examples of why proprietary software is "unethical" https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/proprietary.html The other reasons for free software, besides potential malware, is that it might prohibit users from sharing knowledge with each other. But that is not any more an important reason then privacy and security. To use the word "principle" as a cop out for having to explain your philosophy, is very shameful.
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Just saying the word "bullshit" is not threatening enough to people. Because you will change nobodies minds like that. But going around preaching about security, when not only gov't agents, but more importantly, EX gov't agents, and criminal malicious hacking cyber thieves want to keep you vulnerable. Then yes you are a threat. I've actually gotten the michaelangleo virus and CIH viruses when I was a kid, and have gotten some even in modern times. And I can guarantee you i'm way more careful on my pc then you, and my box is way more hardened. So that really just leads me to believe, that you wouldn't know you had a virus if it bit you in the ass hahah.
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The only thing being proved contradictory in your post, your own statement that there is a contradiction, when you are claiming that something is based on principle is contradictory to itself. I think you are confusing yourself now lol "For example, The same way the stasi in nazi germany used seemingly innocent information to blackmail people into doing things that would hurt others in their communities. Because things we do in private should sometimes stay private because it could lead to endangering others physical well being or hurt them mentally, when it is unnecessary and taken out of context or misunderstood. Because I don't believe users should be treated as a product unknowingly for others gain, whether monetary or not, for all the above reasons. People are not property or products, and treating them as such can stall our human evolution, which hurts our well being" ^ but these are examples to define why invading ones privacy is potentially "unethical" You fail to understand that what you believe is immorral, might not be considered so by someone else. The burden on you is to explain why something is "unethical" or immoral. Simply stating so will never convince anyone. Some people, believe it or not, don't know the difference between right or wrong. And if you can't do that, then you will be seen as someone who doesn't understand it yourself. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/proprietary.html ^ examples of why proprietary software can be "unethical?
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That page doesn't describe why proprietary software is unethical. It describes examples of malware in proprietary software, one bad effect of proprietary software. It's unethical because you deserve control over your computer. Why do you deserve control over your computer? Well, freedom. There's really no deeper reason than that. If you don't, through empathy, come to the conclusion that people deserve the freedom to control your computing, fine, disagree with the libre software movement all you want. But don't go around claiming that the FSF says something it does not.
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"Power corrupts, so the proprietary program's developer is tempted to design the program to mistreat its users—that is, to make it malware. (Malware means software whose functioning mistreats the user.) Of course, the developer usually does not do this out of malice, but rather to put the users at a disadvantage. That does not make it any less nasty or more legitimate." Meaning they can destroy your pc hardware, they can stop you from sharing information. But I have outlined many examples of why privacy and security are important to ones self, yet you keep ignoring it. So I will keep reposting it, until you have the balls to address it.
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> The point of me linking that page, is to show you that your "ethics" is not more important thyen privacy and security, even according the FSF. Uh, no. How about you actually read what you're linking to? Proprietary software, also called nonfree software, means software that doesn't respect users' freedom and community. This means that its developer or owner has power over its users. This power is itself an injustice. The point of this page is that the initial injustice of proprietary software often leads to further injustices: malicious functionalities. (Emphasis mine.)
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That whole page is about malware, do you not believe that malware is directly related to privacy and security? haha. Further injustices, meaning more then just prohibiting the sharing of information which I stated. Or the adding of new features. And which i keep stating is no more important then privacy and security... which = malware, which the FSF dedicated whole page to labeled proprietary philosophy.
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lmao, the actual title is "Free Software: More Than “Advantages”" wow dude, you are already not grasping what that article is trying to say, What that article is actually saying. is to NOT explain them as advantages. "I'm often asked to describe the “advantages” of free software. But the word “advantages” is too weak when it comes to freedom" You are contradicting that with your statement already. Being able to share software, can be considered just as much an "advantage" as security and privacy benefits. Being able to modify software could also be considered an "advantage". Being able to redistribute modified software, is another "ADVANTAGE" Again, NO DIFFERENCE!! ONE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS THE OTHER! To claim otherwise, and to describe it as an "advantage" goes against another line in that article: "Freedom includes the freedom to cooperate with others. Denying people that freedom means keeping them divided, which is the start of a scheme to oppress them. " And this is my point. You divide people when you claim your reasons are "more important" then someone elses reasons for supporting free software. They are all just as important, and all fall under why supporting it is the "right" "ethical" thing to do.
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I'm not the one claiming that privacy and security are more imporant then being able to share information. But you are certainly trying to claim the reverse. Back doors Insecurity Sabotage Interference Surveillance Are all just as important as censorship. Not more, not less.
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"Security and privacy are "advantages"" The reason the article considers that statement the wrong thing to say, which you did anyways.../facepalmis because it doesn't have a strong enough meaning on what it considers should be a fundamental human right, and it separates the importance of reasons for having the freedom. Security, is one of the reasons, Freedom, is important. Many of you FSF members, have no idea what you stand for, and just want to be different for the sake of it, You must like being a minority and I can see its a self fulfilling prophecy for you the way you drive new members away with your self righteous egotistical bullshit.
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Let this troll die of hunger please.
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security is not an "advantage" its ESSENTIAL!
