Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
Dean writes: Ob-nox-ious (adj.) unpleasant, offensive. Wouldn't a sinner find the words of Jesus as obnoxious if they didn't have the ability to hear those same words. TPW: It's not Jesus we find obnoxious. It's the clueless git who bothers you while you are either at work or with your girlfriend that doesn't seem to understand two simple words like NOT INTERESTED. The bible within itself is rather harmless unless you take it too seriously to the point you let go of your own god-given common-sense. TPW _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
In a message dated 11/27/2003 8:04:25 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: "Arsene Lupin" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The bible within itself is rather harmless unless you take it tooseriously to the point you let go of your own god-given common-sense. TPW So you believe in God-given common sense? Laura
Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
Laura: So you believe in God-given common sense? TPW: I believe that when you are born you have certain talents ingrained in you. And one of these talents is the ability to reason. Whatever gods we may worship have surely something to do with it in a spiritual sense when it comes to spiritual matters. And so we have a common sense when dealing with matters of the spirit. It's a shame though that in life I have noticed many people forgo that common sense for the sake of dogma, instead of trusting their instinct! TPW _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/viruspgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
In a message dated 11/27/2003 9:15:29 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: TPW: I believe that when you are born you have certain talents ingrained in you. And one of these talents is the ability to reason. Whatever gods we may worship have surely something to do with it in a spiritual sense when it comes to spiritual matters.And so we have a common sense when dealing with matters of the spirit. It's a shame though that in life I have noticed many people forgo that common sense for the sake of dogma, instead of trusting their instinct So how do you believe we were "created" and how do we get those talents or gifts? Laura
RE: [TruthTalk] Re-unite with adulterous spouse?
No! J -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Hansen Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 12:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re-unite with adulterous spouse? ShieldsFamily wrote: TTers, I have a cousin who is running around, very blatantly and unrepentantly, on her husband. (This was discovered a few weeks ago when her teen-aged son and his best friend found the love letters she has written to his friends father!) Her husband has called us for moral support, as they have both now filed for divorce. We are praying with him and encouraging him as much as possible. Of course it is hard because they have 3 children, and have been married about 15 years. But he sounds a lot like he would take her back if she would just come home. Even if she does grow tired of her boyfriend and drag tail back home, do you think he should take her backunder any circumstances? DAVEH: Is she a good cook??? Izzy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
Laura: So how do you believe we were created and how do we get those talents or gifts? TPW: We are the end result of long and tedious process known as evolution. But to me evolution doesn't disprove the existance of the Gods (nor does it prove it either)! You see, it took eons for man to come about. Whatever or whomever sparked the process, it is rather irrelevant. It's what shaped us. It's like the tool of a sculptor. Who cares what it was, it's more how it was used that would be an issue. My own view on it is that The Gods may have just shaped the course of man at one time to see if they could make beings who could be as they, thinking, sentient. Why? Who knows. Doesn't matter. We are here and that's what counts. As for what kind of talents you ask, well, don't you know the talents a human being has? Look around you dear and you will see. TPW _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
TPW, (I forgot what that stands for) I have to agree with you here. And with Terry, who says not to throw pearls before swine. I personally don't believe in witnessing unless a person shows an interest in hearing it, in one way or another. I don't believe in peddling Jesus like a vacuum sweeper--He doesn't need it. The Holy Spirit will woo whomever He wills; and unless that ground has been prepared, one wastes God-given time and energy, and makes the gospel look cheap. Timing is everything. Sometimes one must wait for years with certain people to speak a word. In the meantime, one prays for the Holy Spirit to make the heart hungry. I think the best witness is living a Godly life right in front of the World. Light speaks for itself. And Light draws those who are hungry to the Source. The one shining the light (or I should say, reflects, the light), may never know they had an effect. That is not their business; only to keep shining. On the other hand, I believe in street preachers doing whatever the Lord has (really) called them to do. That is a whole different ministry. As they have stated, there have been some snatched out of the fire by that type of ministry. I just think they need to use Godly wisdom; preaching only where and how the Holy Spirit dictates. And only God can judge whether they did, in the end. Back to turkey preparations, Izzy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Arsene Lupin Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2003 7:34 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day Dean writes: Ob-nox-ious (adj.) unpleasant, offensive. Wouldn't a sinner find the words of Jesus as obnoxious if they didn't have the ability to hear those same words. TPW: It's not Jesus we find obnoxious. It's the clueless git who bothers you while you are either at work or with your girlfriend that doesn't seem to understand two simple words like NOT INTERESTED. The bible within itself is rather harmless unless you take it too seriously to the point you let go of your own god-given common-sense. TPW _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn .com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Re-unite with adulterous spouse?
I have a cousin who is running around, very blatantly and unrepentantly, on her husband. (This was discovered a few weeks ago when her teen-aged son and his best friend found the love letters she has written to his friend's father!) Her husband has called us for moral support, as they have both now filed for divorce. We are praying with him and encouraging him as much as possible. Of course it is hard because they have 3 children, and have been married about 15 years. But he sounds a lot like he would take her back if she would just come home. Even if she does grow tired of her boyfriend and drag tail back home, do you think he should take her back-under any circumstances? TPW: My view on this is that he shouldn't. Once a cheater always a cheater. Your support should probably better focused on giving him a hand with obtaining custody of the kids and emotional support that a victim (Yes I believe that is the proper term here) needs. One thing Christian values and Asatru Values have is a strong family code of ethics and a desire for spousal fidelity. Infidelity is both an insult to the spouse and an act of betrayal towards the family. It cannot be forgiven so easily. Luckily the son is a teen-ager so it's not so bad. But he will have to be nurtured in being reminded that not all women are as treacherous. Such situations do leave a lingering thought in one's mind. I am sorry if I sound callous, but sometimes one must cut the Gordian knot! TPW _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/viruspgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: Fw: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
In a message dated 11/27/2003 10:11:29 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: wrong Laura: So how do you believe we were "created" and how do we get those talents or gifts?TPW: We are the end result of long and tedious process known as evolution.But to me evolution doesn't disprove the existance of the Gods (nor does it prove it either)!
[TruthTalk] Pagan Wolf
Pagan Wolf, you never answered my question about whether it was you who sent that private message. Is it too personal a question for you to answer? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?
DAVEH: My latest post is in RED. Carrolll Moore wrote: - Original Message - From: Terry Clifton To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11/26/2003 7:58:49 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin? No suggestions. I am stating plainly that God has given you an option. Love sin, or love Him. If there was no option, the Church would be the slave of Christ rather than the bride.I assume that you love someone now, or have in the past. Do you want that person to love you because they have that option, or would you prefer that they had no choice?You are made in His image. Do you find it odd that you and God have something in common?Seems simple to me, but then, what does an old redneck know?I am not certain just what a protestant is. I can't find it in the Bible.TerryRight Bro. We are not protesting anything-simple telling the truth. DAVEH: I am just curious as to why some protesters feel the need to be obnoxious while doing so. Did Jesus demonstrate in an obnoxious manner to those who had dissimilar beliefs? We are not protesters. - Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 1:24 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin? Terry Clifton wrote: DaveH:It's so simple that most people miss it! If you did not know how evil Satan is, you would never have any way to comprehend how good God is. If you ain't ever seen ugly, how you gonna 'preciate beauty? DAVEH: Terry.Are you suggesting God has given us sin so we can appreciate him??? I hope that isn't doctrinal Protestantism. If it is, it does seem a bit perverse. Terry - Original Message - From: Dave To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 8:42 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin? DAVEH: No problem, Judy. After sleeping on it last night, I may have a better way of explaining myself this morning. So, I'll reword it in another way. As I understand Protestant theology, God created Satan and knew what Satan would do. He also created Adam and Eve and knew what they were going to do. Unless God intended for Adam/Eve to 'fall', why do Protestants place them in a situation where he knew they would fall? Or better yet, why did God create Satan, knowing all the trouble he would ultimately cause? If God is all knowing, and all powerful then it would seem like either he made a mistake, or he intended that sin and failure be a part of our life. I think everybody agrees that he doesn't make mistakes, so why do Protestants think sin is good for us? Yes, I know..Protestants don't believe sin is "good for us", but I don't know how else to word it. Apparently there is a 'good' purpose for sin...I'm just curious what value Protestants find in sin. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave: Got to leave this morning, I'll study these questions and get back to you later today. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?
DAVEH: My latest post is in Red. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED]>DAVEH: I think most folks would prefer their loved ones suffer no pain or misery. I'm trying to figure out what reasons Protestants think pain or misery (caused by the Devil) is 'good' for us. Otherwise..why would he (God) simply not eliminate it. Being free of the influence of sin would hardly cause us to be slaves. Or do you disagree? jt: Eve was free from the influence of sin and so was Lucifer at the beginning - So history would repeat itself and we would probably invent it. During the Millenium Satan is bound for 1,000 years and according to scripture people still refuse to love the truth, that is, people who are born during that era and have no devil to tempt them. DAVEH: My curiosity is why you think God did not bind Satan that way instead of letting him tempt Eve. Don't you think he (God) had a purpose for letting Eve transgress? dh: You are made in His image. Do you find it odd that you and God have something in common? jt: Not so, we have nothing in common with God until we receive Christ as Lord and Savior. The first couple WERE made in His image. (see Genesis 5:3) After Adam's fall the image was no more that of God, Seth and the generations after him were made in the image of the first Adam who was fallen. Jesus the second Adam is the way back to the image of God so we have nothing in common with God DAVEH: I find that interesting, Judy. Is that commonly believed/accepted amongst Protestants? until we have chosen Christ and our carnal mind is renewed in Him. Grace and Peace, Judy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carrolll Moore wrote: dh: He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his reason is weak. -Michel De Montaigne, essayist (1533-1592) Dean Writes: But in Isaiah 58- God told us to to declare His Law very loudly. jt: Dean if you read Isaiah 58:1 again you will see God is talking about crying out to His own people - showing His people their transgression and the house of Jacob their sin. This is why I question going out into the streets and condemning the unbeliever when the Church itself is such a mess because of sin. DAVEH: Perhaps so, Carroll..but did he tell us to be obnoxious when doing so?!?!?! jt: He has a point. The way Mormons evangelize is more along the lines of the apostles, going out two by two and talking to people in their homes with their permission where there are no distractions and they are a captive audience. Bad message but good method. DAVEH: Which is why I am surprised at the length/depth some protesters will go to humiliate those they intend to convert. I've never understood that mentality. Do such methods really work in any small measure at all? I can only think they may occasionally gain a convert, but it sure seems to me that it is the wrong method of doing it. For all the effort some protesters put into it, I would think they turn off far more people than they convert. But, that is just the opinion of an outsider. How about some of you street preachers who are closer to the action...Do such tactics pay off in the long run? Grace and Peace, Judy -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?
David Miller wrote: DaveH wrote: If God is all knowing, and all powerful then it would seem like either he made a mistake, or he intended that sin and failure be a part of our life. I think everybody agrees that he doesn't make mistakes, so why do Protestants think sin is good for us? Yes, I know..Protestants don't believe sin is good for us, but I don't know how else to word it. Apparently there is a 'good' purpose for sin... I'm just curious what value Protestants find in sin. The purpose of earth is not to show the value of sin, but to show the exceedingly wicked results of sin. DAVEH: Huh?!?!?!?! That's the reason we are on earthto learn not to sin??? That does seems a bit convoluted to me, DavidM. It would be similar to me teaching my kids not to do wrong by tossing them in a prison with a bunch of thieves, murderers, rapists and other despicable creatures so my kids could learn first hand the things I am teaching them are bad. The chances of my kids coming out unscathed are unimaginably small to nil. I find it hard to believe our Heavenly Father is putting us in this situation just to teach us what happens when we sin. Is this just your perception, or is it common thinking within Protestantism? It has pleased God to demonstrate to all his creation, men on earth as well as angels in heaven, that his ways are so righteous that men will follow his ways by faith, without proof, even at the risk of ridicule and great persecution against themselves. The real purpose is to show the fellowship of the church that comes out of the world system, that separates themselves and follow him, having never seen him. Such a testimony is powerful, and also in those who walk by faith, an eternal virtue of faith and trust is refined in them to such a degree that God will be able to glorify them in a greater way than he has ever done before, without them making the mistake of Lucifer and going into rebellion against the Godly authority and order that has been instituted by God. DAVEH: I still don't understand why (Protestants don't think) it would have not been easier for God just to not have created Lucifer in the first place, assuming he (God) knew the problems Satan would cause. Consider the following passage which shows how the mystery of the church of Jesus Christ teaches all the principalities and powers in heavenly places: Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the FELLOWSHIP OF THE MYSTERY, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that NOW UNTO THE PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS IN HEAVENLY PLACES MIGHT BE KNOWN BY THE CHURCH THE MANIFOLD WISDOM OF GOD, DAVEH: In my opinion, Protestantism fosters the mystery/mysterious aspect of theology. The intent of the gospel is to answer the mysteries, yet it appears there is more mystery within Protestantism. According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him. (Ephesians 3:8-12 KJV) Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] Re-unite with adulterous spouse? (My apolgies!)
Hi Folks, My previous post in response to Izzy was my first since receiving the digest version of TT. I'd fully intended to delete the digest before sending my response but hit send before I'd done so! Please forgive me for sending the entire digest as part of my post! Your brother in Christ, Bruce _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
[TruthTalk] 2 value systems clash on Thanksgiving
2 value systems clash on Thanksgiving: http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35837 -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
Carroll Moore wrote: [Original Message] From: Dave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 11/26/2003 10:09:38 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day Carrolll Moore wrote: He who establishes his argument by noise and command, shows that his reason is weak. -Michel De Montaigne, essayist (1533-1592) Dean Writes: But in Isaiah 58- God told us to to declare His Law very loudly. DAVEH: Perhaps so, Carroll..but did he tell us to be obnoxious when doing so?!?!?! Dean writes: Ob-nox-ious (adj.) unpleasant, offensive. Wouldn't a sinner find the words of Jesus as obnoxious if they didn't have the ability to hear those same words. DAVEH: Not in my opinion, Carroll. He told folks they were wrong and should change, but he did it in a loving way. I do not recall him trying to mock or humiliate those who disagreed with him. Nor did he go out of his way to 'get in their face'. He often times spoke his mind about their wrongness and then left them to decide which path they want to travel. I don't think there was anything obnoxious or offensive about the way he preached or acted. And, that includes his righteous indignation in the Temple. That is why we are considered obnoxious at you precious temple-you refuse to repent. DAVEH: Since you want to discuss this within the context of Mormonism, I will oblige. The behavior exhibited by those protesting Mormonism during their conference times twice a year has exceeded the bounds of respect, politeness, decency and common sense. In short, their demonstrations were extremely rude, crude and obnoxious.not only to LDS folks, but to others who witnessed their rude behavior. Carroll, if you think our Lord condones such deplorable behavior, I am rather disappointed. I'm not sure what effect they (the protesters) think their inappropriate behavior will achieve, but I assure you it was detrimental to their cause. If somebody does not agree with our theology and wishes to protestthat is OK. But to delve to the depths of indecency only brands them with an unChristian image that betrays their hypocritical goals. Jesus said that the Temple was within- DAVEH: LDS folks believe the same. Mormons place it into a structure made with mans hands DAVEH: That too, just as in Biblical times. Do you not see a relevance of Temples to/and God, Carroll? I do not believe a temple need be ONLY one single aspect of theology. which God will not accept DAVEH: In your opinion. and in your lies you declare this as the way to salvation-Mormons are fools. DAVEH: Again.in your opinion. However, I respectfully disagree. Your temple will fall. DAVEH: When do you think that will happen, and why do you make that prediction, Carroll? -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?
DaveH wrote: I am just curious as to why some protesters feel the need to be obnoxious while doing so. Did Jesus demonstrate in an obnoxious manner to those who had dissimilar beliefs? Dave, society and government does not imprison people or crucify them if such persons were not considered obnoxious in some way. Think about it. Jesus was convicted of being seditious. Realize that when you read the Scriptures, you are reading the positive side of the event. It would be like reading Carroll's account of a preaching event rather than Pagan Wolf's take on that same preaching event. All the apostles experienced problems with people complaining about their preaching and with authorities feeling the need to imprison them, whip them, and sometimes execute them. Why? Do you really believe that it was because they were peacefully and quietly going door to door and talking with those who would invite them in? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] Courtesy of A.Word.A.Day
Judy wrote: The way Mormons evangelize is more along the lines of the apostles, going out two by two and talking to people in their homes with their permission where there are no distractions and they are a captive audience. Bad message but good method. DAVEH: Which is why I am surprised at the length/depth some protesters will go to humiliate those they intend to convert. I've never understood that mentality. Do such methods really work in any small measure at all? I can only think they may occasionally gain a convert, but it sure seems to me that it is the wrong method of doing it. For all the effort some protesters put into it, I would think they turn off far more people than they convert. But, that is just the opinion of an outsider. How about some of you street preachers who are closer to the action...Do such tactics pay off in the long run? I think you would be surprised by the number affected. I heard from the New York team that went to Utah for the Olympics and two of the subsequent Mormon conferences a report of 52 Mormons converting to Christianity. This was for an 8 month period which involved three hits. The best I could determine, this result far exceeded the efforts of James White's team which dresses like Mormons and passes out tracts and seeks to engage in amiable intelligent discussions. Despite profitable results like this, the confrontational ministry is considered primarily a plowing ministry. People will write to us many years later and say, I just got saved and want to let you know that what you said xx years ago just stuck in me for years and I could not get over it and now I believe in Jesus and am just like you. Sometimes people are extremely convicted for how they responded to a holiness message. One man, Patrick Johnston, who use to be on this list, was saved through a campus preacher being confrontational with him about his hypocrisy. He thought he was a good Christian guy, but he was living in sin. His reaction to the campus preacher shamed him and he eventually came to believe. He is now a very active campus preacher himself and a medical doctor too. The greatest encouragement to keep preaching in this fashion, however, is the Spirit of the Lord himself. I cannot explain to you the grace and glory that rests upon us the day following an effective preaching situation. It seems like the more we might suffer humiliation and reproach, the more the glory of God rests upon us and sanctifies us. I don't know how to describe this or explain it, but it surely is something that impresses me with the necessity to press forward despite the persecution and turmoil that such a ministry brings. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
RE: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?
David Miller wrote: The purpose of earth is not to show the value of sin, but to show the exceedingly wicked results of sin. DAVEH: Huh?!?!?!?! That's the reason we are on earth to learn not to sin??? No... to show or demonstrate the wicked RESULTS of sin. Remember that there was rebellion in heaven, and the falling of Lucifer was tied to two important things: 1) his ability to choose to walk in rebellion, and 2) his great glorification such that he no longer thought he needed God. So with a great many of God's creation rebelling against him, the earth was a trying ground, to demonstrate to the angels of the revolution and those still loyal to him that his laws and his ways are indeed inherently good, not just because he declared them to be that way, but in practical terms, they save society from much hardship and pain. So several things are accomplished hereby: 1) the loyal angels are convinced that they have made the right choice not to follow Lucifer, and 2) the people of faith will be established with great eternal virtues that exceed that of God's other created beings. Most important, our faith has been refined by the conditions of our existence here so that we will be glorified to a degree greater than Lucifer experienced and yet not succumb to the same temptation to depart from submission unto God. Ultimately, a greater good is achieved at the sacrifice of the lives of those who choose self over love. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
Re: [TruthTalk] The Value of Sin?
David Miller wrote: DaveH wrote: I am just curious as to why some protesters feel the need to be obnoxious while doing so. Did Jesus demonstrate in an obnoxious manner to those who had dissimilar beliefs? Dave, society and government does not imprison people or crucify them if such persons were not considered obnoxious in some way. Think about it. Jesus was convicted of being seditious. DAVEH: A trumped up charge... And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people, Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that peverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those those things whereof ye accuse him: No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him, and, lo, nothing worth of death is done unto him. Lk 23:13-15 ...and...] And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him:. vs 22 .then, they released Barnabas, who HAD BEEN CONVICTED OF SEDITION And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison,.. vs 25 Realize that when you read the Scriptures, you are reading the positive side of the event. DAVEH: And that account does not to me portray Jesus as being obnoxious, even to his enemies. Are you suggesting the Bible does not accurately depict our Lord? It would be like reading Carroll's account of a preaching event rather than Pagan Wolf's take on that same preaching event. All the apostles experienced problems with people complaining about their preaching and with authorities feeling the need to imprison them, whip them, and sometimes execute them. Why? DAVEH: Because Satan motivated them to do so in an effort to thwart the Plan of Salvation. Do you really believe that it was because they were peacefully and quietly going door to door and talking with those who would invite them in? DAVEH: Yes, I do. Have you not preached on the street in a peaceful non threatening manner, and not had some whacko want to do physical harm to you? Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE. -- Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man. (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
