Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
Gary what is your problem? I am not saying anythingscripture does not say first... see Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Jesus - the Word of God is what they spoke and He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:01:21 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..your commentsrepresent another of yourmanufactured scriptural over-ridesin support of a false philosophical projection, pejorative, in its impact, to the person of JC--perhapsa subtlead hominemin our archive/d context On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:47:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..iow, your comments counter Hebrews;are self-generated opinion (perhaps somewhat unwittingly, Lance) rooted in common philosophymired militantly in mitigatingJCs deity On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:36:07 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
Judy:THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, JT, YOU DO BELIEVE THE BIBLE!! DM ALSO BELIEVES THE BIBLE! Wherein there lies coincidence between that which God Himself says and, that which you've (both) interpreted the Bible to say then Praise God. Wherein that is not so then, it is at best harmles to the discerning believer and, at worst, dangerous to the naive believer. - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: January 14, 2006 21:59 Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:45:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. I have no problem with unregenerated man repenting and this is what the ppl of Nineveh did; when one have no theological boxes there is no problem. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the sameyesterday, today, and forever." I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well. No worries JD. Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place in the Godhead forever. Actually you do not quote correctly JD. It is Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever. Ask me a question, Judy,about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set up."I do not mind beingresponsible for what Iconsider tobe true.Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd That's easy JD. I BELIEVE THE BIBLE -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressedlater and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warningbought them sometime but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes ... and Jonah was called by God andanointed to speak bythe Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
So you know better than the Bible - or you are out
beyond the Bible. Whichever it is Lance you apparently think
it gives you the ability and licence to critique
everything that comes along. I find it quite amazing that you
appear
tothink thatyou and you alone know the
difference between a discerning and a naive "believer" while ATST
since you have been on this list I have not once seen
you differentiate between the holy and the profane.
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 06:58:51 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Judy:THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, JT, YOU DO BELIEVE THE
BIBLE!! DM ALSO BELIEVES THE BIBLE! Wherein there lies coincidence between
that which God Himself says and, that which you've (both) interpreted the
Bible to say then Praise God. Wherein that is not so then, it is at best
harmles to the discerning believer and, at worst, dangerous to the naive
believer.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 14, 2006 21:59
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The
mystery of Judy's gospel
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:45:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is
right. You have stated that many times in the past. I
was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the
example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion.
I have no problem with unregenerated man
repenting and this is what the ppl of Nineveh did; when one
have no theological boxes there is no
problem.
2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in
spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the
sameyesterday, today, and forever." I was
hoping for an explanation of this, as well.
No worries JD. Yesterday he was God the
Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place
in the Godhead forever. Actually you do not
quote correctly JD. It is Jesus Christ, the same
yesterday,
today and forever.
Ask me a question, Judy,about my beliefs and I will be glad to
answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set up."I do
not mind beingresponsible for what Iconsider tobe
true.Could you please do the same? I
doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you
believe. Seriously jd
That's easy JD. I BELIEVE THE
BIBLE
--
Original message -- From: Judy Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also
and He is merciful and longsuffering enough
to want to give them one more chance which they
took for a measure of time even though they
regressedlater and were eventually
destroyed. Their response to Jonah's
warningbought
them sometime but unfortunately they did
not gain eternity.
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh?
They don't have to have the
Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit?
jd
From:
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes ... and Jonah was called by God
andanointed to speak bythe Spirit of God..
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do
the works of God without the Spirit of God?
jd
From:
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it
reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously
the wages of sin is death with or
without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to
repent
and they did do that in sackcloth and
ashes... even without theological permission.
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not
call them to the Law.
And it is the Law that defines sin to be
sin. Can sin exist apart from the
law?
Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not
calling them to live their lives as the
Jews lived theirs !! jd
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
FWIW, from my perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she seems to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read. I believe that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and cause them to believe. I tend to agree with the perspective that man is regenerated at the point just before believing because Jesus said that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can an unregenerated man believe in that which he cannot see? In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something that they have been told is wrong. Unregenerated man also can decide to do something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I do not think Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw man argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to speak for her? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel 1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well. Ask me a question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being set up. I do not mind being responsible for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe.Seriously jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressed later and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warning bought them some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes ... and Jonah was called by God and anointed to speak by the Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible to repent because of total depravity and this comes out of a misunderstanding of the spiritual realities involved. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:05 -0500 Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Debbie Sawczak Is repentance part of the Gospel? Yes, the NT is replete with directives to repent. But repentance is not a means by which or through which people are saved. It is Jesus Christ who is our Savior. Salvation is in him, complete with mediation on our behalf. Repentance is therefore our response to the greatest news the world has ever heard; it is our response to the good news of Jesus Christ. Amen. Lance, I now see what you meant today about the exchange bw Bill and David, having read the full message from Bill. The above is the crux, isn't it? It (esp the part I bolded) reminds me of what Victor said numerous times
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
Not even 'once', JT? Yikes!! Shame on me. Here
goes: Some of your interpretations are Holy while some others are Profane! I'd
say the same things concerning DM. (I'm usings profane hear as 'not
sacred')
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 15, 2006 07:33
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery
of Judy's gospel
So you know better than the Bible - or you are out
beyond the Bible. Whichever it is Lance you apparently think
it gives you the ability and licence to critique
everything that comes along. I find it quite amazing that you
appear
tothink thatyou and you alone know the
difference between a discerning and a naive "believer" while ATST
since you have been on this list I have not once seen
you differentiate between the holy and the profane.
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 06:58:51 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Judy:THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM, JT, YOU DO BELIEVE
THE BIBLE!! DM ALSO BELIEVES THE BIBLE! Wherein there lies coincidence
between that which God Himself says and, that which you've (both)
interpreted the Bible to say then Praise God. Wherein that is not so then,
it is at best harmles to the discerning believer and, at worst, dangerous to
the naive believer.
- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: January 14, 2006 21:59
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The
mystery of Judy's gospel
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:45:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is
right. You have stated that many times in the past. I
was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the
example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion.
I have no problem with unregenerated man
repenting and this is what the ppl of Nineveh did; when one
have no theological boxes there is no
problem.
2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God
in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the
sameyesterday, today, and forever." I was
hoping for an explanation of this, as well.
No worries JD. Yesterday he was God the
Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place
in the Godhead forever. Actually you do
not quote correctly JD. It is Jesus Christ, the same
yesterday,
today and forever.
Ask me a question, Judy,about my beliefs and I will be glad
to answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set
up."I do not mind beingresponsible for what
Iconsider tobe true.Could you please do the
same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the
rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd
That's easy JD. I BELIEVE THE
BIBLE
--
Original message -- From: Judy Taylor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also
and He is merciful and longsuffering enough
to want to give them one more chance which
they took for a measure of time even though they
regressedlater and were eventually
destroyed. Their response to Jonah's
warningbought
them sometime but unfortunately they
did not gain eternity.
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh?
They don't have to have the
Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the
Spirit?
jd
From:
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Yes ... and Jonah was called by God
andanointed to speak bythe Spirit of
God..
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot
do the works of God without the Spirit of God?
jd
From:
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Death reigned from Adam to Moses and
it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously
the wages of sin is death with or
without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to
repent
and they did do that in sackcloth and
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel ** Moderator Comment **
Perry said he would not be available this weekend and he asked me to help with moderating the list. Therefore, I am sending out a few comments regarding ad hominem statements that should be reconsidered. Please do not reply to the list for any posts with ** Moderator Comment ** in the subject line. You may write me privately if you wish. Gary, the line, "private philosophy not bible teaching" is an ad hominem style remark without sufficient text that would help make this point. It seems to me that your verbiage is overall meant to inflame and rail against the person rather than the message. David Miller - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:36 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel ** Moderator Comment **
Perry said he would not be available this weekend and he asked me to help with moderating the list. Therefore, I am sending out a few comments regarding ad hominem statements that should be reconsidered. Please do not reply to the list for any posts with ** Moderator Comment ** in the subject line. You may write me privately if you wish. Gary, your wording employs the word "your" in combination with "false philosophical projection, pejorative"in such a way that your message attacks the messenger more than the message. Consider rewording your text and adding enough substance to substantiate your points. Thanks. David Miller Moderator pro tem - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 11:01 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel ..your commentsrepresent another of yourmanufactured scriptural over-ridesin support of a false philosophical projection, pejorative, in its impact, to the person of JC--perhapsa subtlead hominemin our archive/d context On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:47:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..iow, your comments counter Hebrews;are self-generated opinion (perhaps somewhat unwittingly, Lance) rooted in common philosophymired militantly in mitigatingJCs deity On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:36:07 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel ** Moderator Comment **
Perry said he would not be available this weekend and he asked me to help with moderating the list. Therefore, I am sending out a few comments regarding ad hominem statements that should be reconsidered. Please do not reply to the list for any posts with ** Moderator Comment ** in the subject line. You may write me privately if you wish. Judy, you could have left off the first sentence, "Gary what is your problem" and communicated your point just fine. Please consider that the next time you write. You post would have been just perfect without the first sentence, which I hope you can see, attacks Gary as the messenger rather than his message. David Miller Moderator pro tem - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 4:27 AM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel Gary what is your problem? I am not saying anythingscripture does not say first... see Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Jesus - the Word of God is what they spoke and He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:01:21 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..your commentsrepresent another of yourmanufactured scriptural over-ridesin support of a false philosophical projection, pejorative, in its impact, to the person of JC--perhapsa subtlead hominemin our archive/d context On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:47:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..iow, your comments counter Hebrews;are self-generated opinion (perhaps somewhat unwittingly, Lance) rooted in common philosophymired militantly in mitigatingJCs deity On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:36:07 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel ** Moderator Comment **
Perry said he would not be available this weekend and he asked me to help with moderating the list. Therefore, I am sending out a few comments regarding ad hominem statements that should be reconsidered. Please do not reply to the list for any posts with ** Moderator Comment ** in the subject line. You may write me privately if you wish. Gary, your comment "self-generated opinion" below, without more text that would establish any validity to your point, only works toward maligning the messenger rather than the message. Consider rewording yourself to direct your comments toward the message rather than the messenger. Thanks. David Miller Moderator pro tem - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:47 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel ..iow, your comments counter Hebrews;are self-generated opinion (perhaps somewhat unwittingly, Lance) rooted in common philosophymired militantly in mitigatingJCs deity On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:36:07 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:45:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. I have no problem with unregenerated man repenting and this is what the ppl of Nineveh did; when one have no theological boxes there is no problem. So, you do believe that unregenerated man can do good things, can do what is right. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the sameyesterday, today, and forever." I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well. No worries JD. Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place in the Godhead forever. Actually you do not quote correctly JD. It is Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever. I wasn't quoting Hebrews 13:8. I was quoting you form previous discussions !! Hebrews 13"8 is a clear pronouncement of the deity of Christ -- only God IMO merits such an observation concerning sameness. Ask me a question, Judy,about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set up."I do not mind beingresponsible for what Iconsider tobe true.Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd That's easy JD. I BELIEVE THE BIBLE The implication in your answer above is that we can turn to the biblical message and simply read the text to discover what you believe.Such is not the case . You often add your reasoned opinion to explain a particular doctrinal position. We all do this of course, but more than that, your statement [further] implies that conflicting opinion is simply not biblical !! No one on this forum agrees with that determination -- at least, not in a practical sense. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressedlater and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warningbought them sometime but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes ... and Jonah was called by God andanointed to speak bythe Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible to repent because of "total depravity" and this comes outof a misunderstanding of the spiritual realities involved. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Debbie Sawczak Is repentance part of the Gospel? Yes, the NT is replete with directives to repent. But repentance is not a means by which or through which people are saved. It is Jesus Christ who is our Savior. Salvation is in him, complete with mediation on our behalf. Repentance is therefore our response to the greatest news the world has ever heard; it is our response to the good news of Jesus Christ. Amen. Lance, I now see what you meant today about the exchange bw Bill and David, having read the full message from Bill. The above is the crux, isn't it? It (esp the part I bolded) reminds me of what Victor said numerous
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
Your explanation --as it standsapart from furtherdiscussion --changes the impact of the Hebrews text. Jesus is without change is the impact of the Hebrews statement, is it not? We would all agree that the incarnation represents a "change." But there must be a sense, a vital sense, in which it can be said that He is without change. Your statement -- Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place -- separates "yesterday" from "today" and in so doing, you make room from Him to be different? Perhaps more needs to be said, by you, in terms of explanation. If Jesus is the same - throughout time -- how is that the case? Or , do you not beleive this to be the case !!?? jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gary what is your problem? I am not saying anythingscripture does not say first... see Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Jesus - the Word of God is what they spoke and He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:01:21 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..your commentsrepresent another of yourmanufactured scriptural over-ridesin support of a false philosophical projection, pejorative, in its impact, to the person of JC--perhapsa subtlead hominemin our archive/d context On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:47:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..iow, your comments counter Hebrews;are self-generated opinion (perhaps somewhat unwittingly, Lance) rooted in common philosophymired militantly in mitigatingJCs deity On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:36:07 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
Jesus - the Word of God is what they spoke and He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever. O.K.I wish I had gotten to this post earlier. Is this "Word of God" at the sametime Jesus in the Flesh. So you will not accuse me of setting you up, let me give you my concern on where I think youaregoing with this -- In John chapter 1, weread"Word was God" and "Word became flesh" but we do not read that "the Word ceased to be God." I know that you do not believe that Jesus was God in the flesh.It appears to me that your explanation above (in green) suggests that the"Word of God" is something that isspoken, that it is not a reference to the personhood of Jesus on this earth. No need to respond by telling how wrong I am on this understanding. I am sure I have it wrong -- but I do not see what you are saying if not this. Please explain.How is it, in your mind, that the fact that Chrsit is the Word allows you to think that He was not God in the flesh (the incrnate God) ?? jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gary what is your problem? I am not saying anythingscripture does not say first... see Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Jesus - the Word of God is what they spoke and He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:01:21 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..your commentsrepresent another of yourmanufactured scriptural over-ridesin support of a false philosophical projection, pejorative, in its impact, to the person of JC--perhapsa subtlead hominemin our archive/d context On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:47:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..iow, your comments counter Hebrews;are self-generated opinion (perhaps somewhat unwittingly, Lance) rooted in common philosophymired militantly in mitigatingJCs deity On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:36:07 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
(elsewhere, not Heb 13, M'am--your doctrinal demand collides with the text producing) myth On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 04:27:35 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jesus - the Word of God
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Gary what is your problem? I am not saying anythingscripture does not say first... see Hebrews 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Jesus - the Word of God is what they spoke and He is the same yesterday, today, and for ever. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:01:21 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..your commentsrepresent another of yourmanufactured scriptural over-ridesin support of a false philosophical projection, pejorative, in its impact, to the person of JC--perhapsa subtlead hominemin our archive/d context On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:47:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..iow, your comments counter Hebrews;are self-generated opinion (perhaps somewhat unwittingly, Lance) rooted in common philosophymired militantly in mitigatingJCs deity On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:36:07 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
I respectfully disagree. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] FWIW, from my perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she seems to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read.. I believe that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and cause them to believe. I tend to agree with the perspective that man is regenerated at the point just before believing because Jesus said that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can an unregenerated man believe in that which he cannot see? In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something that they have been told is wrong . Unregenerated man also can decide to do something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I do not think Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw man argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to speak for her? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the same yesterday, t oday, and forever." I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well. Ask me a question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set up." I do not mind being responsible for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressed later and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warning bought them some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes ... and Jonah was called by God and anointed to speak by the Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission.On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] ast.net writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible to repent because o f "total depravity" and this comes out of a misunderstanding of the spiritual realities involved. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From: Debbie Sawczak Is repentance part of the Gospel? Yes, the NT is replete with directives to repent. But repentance is not a means by which or through which people are saved. It is Jesus Christ who is our Savior. Salvation is in him, complete with mediation on our behalf. Repentance is therefore our response to the greatest news the world has ever heard; it is our response to the good news of Jesus
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:08:41 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I respectfully disagree. jd
About what JD?
He is right on. I do believe that unregenerated men
can decide to stop doing
something they are told is wrong otherwise civil
government would be pointless
and we would be living in total anarchy.
From:
"David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] FWIW, from my
perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she seems
to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus
Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there
were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read.. I
believe that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and
cause them to believe. I tend to agree with the perspective that
man is regenerated at the point just before believing because Jesus
said that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of
God. How can an unregenerated man believe in that which he cannot
see? In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that
unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something that they have
been told is wrong . Unregenerated man also can decide to do
something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I do not think
Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw man
argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to
speak for her? David Miller.
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent:
Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The
mystery of Judy's gospel1. You believe that
unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that
many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how
that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this
theological conclusion. 2. Secondly, you believe that
Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you)
passage "God is the same yesterday, t oday, and forever." I was
hoping for an explanation of this, as well. Ask me a
question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it
emphatically , not fearing being "set up." I do not mind being responsible
for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I
doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you
believe. Seriously jd
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> God is the Creator of the ppl in
Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough
to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time
even though they regressed later and were eventually
destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warning bought them
some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On
Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And
what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have
to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has
the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes ... and Jonah was called by God
and anointed to speak by the Spirit of God.. On
Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But
aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God
without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Death reigned from Adam to Moses
and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously
the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on
these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth
and ashes... even without theological permission.
On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] ast.net writes:
well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to
the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin
exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is
certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews
lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500
"Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm with Bill
on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course.
I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but
don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of
Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do
you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor
How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent;
because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be
regenerated before it is possible to repent because o f
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
IThis is none of your concern, Judy. Go correct one of your kids or something. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:08:41 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I respectfully disagree. jd About what JD? He is right on. I do believe that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something they are told is wrong otherwise civil government would be pointless and we would be living in total anarchy. From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] FWIW, from my perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she seems to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read.. I believe that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and cause them to believe. I tend to agree with the perspective that man is regenerated at the point just before believing because Jesus said that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can an unregenerated man believe in that which he cannot see? In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something that they have been told is wrong . Unregenerated man also can decide to do something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I do not think Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw man argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to speak for her? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the same yesterday, t oday, and forever." I was hoping fo r an explanation of this, as well. Ask me a question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set up." I do not mind being responsible for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressed later and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warning bought them some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yes ... and Jonah was called by God and anointed to speak by the Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission.On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] ast.net writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible to repent because o f "total depravity" and this comes out of a misunderstanding of the spiritual realities involved. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: From
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
Judy wrote: ... otherwise civil government would be pointless and we would be living in total anarchy. ROTFLOL! You sure do have a way of making a point. Do you preach at your church from time to time Judy? If not, you should. Yes, you definitely should. :-) David Miller - Original Message - From: Judy Taylor To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 10:37 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:08:41 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I respectfully disagree. jd About what JD? He is right on. I do believe that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something they are told is wrong otherwise civil government would be pointless and we would be living in total anarchy. From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] FWIW, from my perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she seems to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read.. I believe that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and cause them to believe. I tend to agree with the perspective that man is regenerated at the point just before believing because Jesus said that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can an unregenerated man believe in that which he cannot see? In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something that they have been told is wrong . Unregenerated man also can decide to do something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I do not think Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw man argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to speak for her? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel 1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage God is the same yesterday, t oday, and forever. I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well. Ask me a question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being set up. I do not mind being responsible for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressed later and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warning bought them some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor Yes ... and Jonah was called by God and anointed to speak by the Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] ast.net writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 Lance Muir writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible to repent because o f total depravity and this comes out
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
None of her concern? We were talking about her, and about my ability to read her. A wise man receives correction, but a fool becomes scornful. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel IThis is none of your concern, Judy. Go correct one of your kids or something. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:08:41 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I respectfully disagree. jd About what JD? He is right on. I do believe that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something they are told is wrong otherwise civil government would be pointless and we would be living in total anarchy. From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] FWIW, from my perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she seems to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read.. I believe that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and cause them to believe. I tend to agree with the perspective that man is regenerated at the point just before believing because Jesus said that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can an unregenerated man believe in that which he cannot see? In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something that they have been told is wrong . Unregenerated man also can decide to do something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I do not think Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw man argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to speak for her? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel 1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage God is the same yesterday, t oday, and forever. I was hoping fo r an explanation of this, as well. Ask me a question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being set up. I do not mind being responsible for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressed later and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warning bought them some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor Yes ... and Jonah was called by God and anointed to speak by the Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] ast.net writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 Lance Muir writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
Drop it David. My conversation with you is just that. jd -- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] None of her concern? We were talking about her, and about my ability to read her. A wise man receives correction, but a fool becomes scornful. David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2006 11:03 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospelIThis is none of your concern, Judy. Go correct one of your kids or something. jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:08:41 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I respectfully disagree. jd & gt; About what JD? He is right on. I do believe that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something they are told is wrong otherwise civil government would be pointless and we would be living in total anarchy.From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> FWIW, from my perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she seems to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read.. I believe that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and cause them to believe. I tend to agree with the perspective that man is regenerated at the point just before believing because Jesus said that unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can an unregenerated man believe in that which he cannot see? In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that unregenerated men can decide to stop doing something that they have been told is wrong . Unregenerated man also can decide to do something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I do not think Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw man argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to speak for her? David Miller. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel 1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the same yesterday, t oday, and forever." I was hoping fo r an explanation of this, as well. Ask me a question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set up." I do not mind being responsible for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor God is the Creator of the ppl in Ni neveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressed later and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warning bought them some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor Yes ... and Jonah was called by God and anointed to speak by the Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God & gt; without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] ast.net writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all th
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the sameyesterday, today, and forever." I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well. Ask me a question, Judy,about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set up."I do not mind beingresponsible for what Iconsider tobe true.Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressedlater and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warningbought them sometime but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes ... and Jonah was called by God andanointed to speak bythe Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible to repent because of "total depravity" and this comes outof a misunderstanding of the spiritual realities involved. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Debbie Sawczak Is repentance part of the Gospel? Yes, the NT is replete with directives to repent. But repentance is not a means by which or through which people are saved. It is Jesus Christ who is our Savior. Salvation is in him, complete with mediation on our behalf. Repentance is therefore our response to the greatest news the world has ever heard; it is our response to the good news of Jesus Christ. Amen. Lance, I now see what you meant today about the exchange bw Bill and David, having read the full message from Bill. The above is the crux, isn't it? It (esp the part I bolded) reminds me of what Victor said numerous times in his Human Person course: I know Christ first of all, before anything else, as my Saviour. The accountability, the repentance, arise out of that. D --No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.17/226 - Release Date: 1/10/2006
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:45:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this theological conclusion. I have no problem with unregenerated man repenting and this is what the ppl of Nineveh did; when one have no theological boxes there is no problem. 2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft quoted (by you) passage "God is the sameyesterday, today, and forever." I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well. No worries JD. Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place in the Godhead forever. Actually you do not quote correctly JD. It is Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever. Ask me a question, Judy,about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it emphatically , not fearing being "set up."I do not mind beingresponsible for what Iconsider tobe true.Could you please do the same? I doubt anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriously jd That's easy JD. I BELIEVE THE BIBLE -- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and longsuffering enough to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time even though they regressedlater and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's warningbought them sometime but unfortunately they did not gain eternity. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have to have the Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yes ... and Jonah was called by God andanointed to speak bythe Spirit of God.. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God without the Spirit of God? jd From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's day.. So obviously the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on these people to repent and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological permission. On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law. And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from the law? Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives as the Jews lived theirs !! jd On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course. I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but don't bring God into your folly. The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke 11:32) And what do you suppose his message to them was? From: Judy Taylor How interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible to repent because of "total depravity" and this comes outof a misunderstanding of the spiritual realities involved. On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Debbie Sawczak Is repentance part of the Gospel? Yes, the NT is replete with directives to repent. But repentance is not a means by which or through
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
..iow, your comments counter Hebrews;are self-generated opinion (perhaps somewhat unwittingly, Lance) rooted in common philosophymired militantly in mitigatingJCs deity On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:36:07 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel
..your commentsrepresent another of yourmanufactured scriptural over-ridesin support of a false philosophical projection, pejorative, in its impact, to the person of JC--perhapsa subtlead hominemin our archive/d context On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:47:14 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..iow, your comments counter Hebrews;are self-generated opinion (perhaps somewhat unwittingly, Lance) rooted in common philosophymired militantly in mitigatingJCs deity On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 20:36:07 -0700 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: myth (private philosophy notbible teaching; 'leaders', in Heb 13, refers to: those who 'say with confidence', to: those who'spoke the word of God' presentedin the OT text/s employed in context by the author of Hebrews) On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:59:29 -0500 Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ||Yesterday he was God the Word, today He is God the Word, and this will be his place ||
