Re: [U2] Record lock

[Charles Stevenson]

Nicholas (& any newbies listening in),

Just to make sure all bases are covered:

1. LIST.READU's "EVERY" keyword.
Besides showing group locks,  it will also, at the very end, show who is 
waiting on a lock.
If there are 2 lines where waiter & lock-holder are reversed on the 2nd 
line, you have a deadlock.


2. There is also a deadlock daemon that you can run or not run as you wish.
If you turn it off, & closely monitor it manually, you can find the 
offending code.  Both processes will hang until you find it & log one off.
PORT.STATUS can then tell you what code is being executed when the 
deadlock hit the 2 offending processes.

PORT.STATUS PID [pid] LAYER.STACK is especially useful.

2b. The deadlock daemon's log can give you a history of when deadlocks 
were found.

My last 2 entries were last June & August:
  Wed Jun 01 15:49:07 2011 - Deadlock detected (victim User 61023)
  Mon Aug 01 17:05:57 2011 - Deadlock detected (victim User 5380)

3. If you have writes without explicit readus preceding them, UV will 
wait for a readu lock behind the scenes, but it won't tell you about it 
in the LIST.READU waiter section.  You can change the default behaviour.

I think deadlock daemon handles this, but I don't recall for certain.


On 3/26/2012 2:19 AM, Namacha, N. (Nicholas) wrote:

  The issue here is to try and monitor for deadlocks.


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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Wjhonson]

Along with the LOCKED you need a call to the STATUS() function to return the 
port number/pid
And then a *table* updating (and crushed) by the Login/Logout routines (Yes you 
can have a logout routine) which matches the pid to the user
And THEN a table of telephone extensions matched to the user

So on a locked out condition your *waiting* user gets a "Customer record 
A049282 locked by John Smith extension 701"
Then and only then, do they not call the Help Desk.
Well mostly...




-Original Message-
From: Don Robinson 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


Wj,

ou are right, I'm a hired gun and try to do what the *boss* wants.
As far as adding LOCKED clauses, that would only solve a part of it. The second 
ser would know why they can't update a record but would still have to call 
upport to kick the first person out.
The goal is to reduce user aggravation and calls to the support group.
e shall see how the time out thing work outs.
Thnaks,
on Robinson
From: Wjhonson 
o: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org; dgr...@dagconsulting.com 
ent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:37 PM
ubject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

On your system", as you said, versus in the rest of the programming world, 
here a programmer works for a manager, who works for another manager, who 
eports to a committee, who reports to the CEO, who gets funded by sometimes not 
o understanding money guys.
Rex we don't have the luxury of being in the decision chair to make such 
changes 
)
hat's the world.
In addition to the non-hot-dog approach of actually testing your changes... on 
hree hundred programs, or three thousand.


Original Message-
rom: Rex Gozar 
o: dgreen ; U2 Users List 

ent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 12:30 pm
ubject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

t does not matter if a system is old or not, you gotta keep it up to
te.  "Maintenance programming" means adding LOCKED clauses that
ould have been there in the first place.  I doubt it would take more
an a few hours; probably less time than writing and debugging some
f-the-wall input timer routine.  There probably aren't that many
itical READU's.  On my system, for the number of programs I have in
e system, I only have a third as many READU's.
x
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Keith Johnson [DATACOM]]

If anyone DOES want the equivalent of Unidata's INPUT... WAITING for Universe...

http://www.pickwiki.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?InputWait

Regards, Keith

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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Don Robinson]

Wj,
 
You are right, I'm a hired gun and try to do what the *boss* wants.

As far as adding LOCKED clauses, that would only solve a part of it. The second 
user would know why they can't update a record but would still have to call 
support to kick the first person out.

The goal is to reduce user aggravation and calls to the support group.
We shall see how the time out thing work outs.

Thnaks,
Don Robinson

From: Wjhonson 
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org; dgr...@dagconsulting.com 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


"On your system", as you said, versus in the rest of the programming world, 
where a programmer works for a manager, who works for another manager, who 
reports to a committee, who reports to the CEO, who gets funded by sometimes 
not so understanding money guys.

Rex we don't have the luxury of being in the decision chair to make such 
changes :)
That's the world.

In addition to the non-hot-dog approach of actually testing your changes... on 
three hundred programs, or three thousand.




-Original Message-
From: Rex Gozar 
To: dgreen ; U2 Users List 

Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


It does not matter if a system is old or not, you gotta keep it up to
ate.  "Maintenance programming" means adding LOCKED clauses that
hould have been there in the first place.  I doubt it would take more
han a few hours; probably less time than writing and debugging some
ff-the-wall input timer routine.  There probably aren't that many
ritical READU's.  On my system, for the number of programs I have in
he system, I only have a third as many READU's.
ex
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Don Robinson]

David,
 
Good idea.
 
Revised code.
 
* Don Robinson
* Testing the INPUTIF statement.
*
PROMPT ''
*
ZZ = ''
FOR X = 1 TO 100  ;* Loop for 10 seconds.
   INPUTIF ZZ THEN EXIT
   NAP 100
NEXT X
*
IF ZZ = '' THEN
   CRT 'The user is sleeping'
   STOP  ;* Do whatever you want here.
END ELSE
*
* User entered something, proceed as usual.
*
   CRT
   CRT 'User entered: ': ZZ
END
*
STOP
END

Thanks,
Don Robinson

From: David A. Green 
To: 'Don Robinson' ; 'U2 Users List' 
 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Don,

You should at least optimize the code by just checking a counter and not
messing with TIME().  Your NAP command automatically takes care of the
amount of time spent in each loop.  You just need to count how many NAPs it
takes to equal the amount of wait time you wish to have.

David A. Green
(480) 813-1725
DAG Consulting

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Don Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:07 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Thanks to all who responded.
 
At the point in the programs where this is a problem for us, we know the
user has a lock, we just want to release the lock. This will be done where
they already have the option of aborting so no problem with partial updates,
etc.
 
The only gotcha on this is if they type one character, the INPUTIF will wait
forever on the Enter key but this isn't too likely.
 
The following code does this pretty well.
 
* Don Robinson
* Testing the INPUTIF statement.
*
PROMPT ''
*
ZZ = ''
TIME.OUT.TIME = INT(TIME()) + 10  ;* Wait 10 seconds.
LOOP
   INPUTIF ZZ THEN EXIT
   NAP 100
   IF INT(TIME()) > TIME.OUT.TIME THEN
  CRT 'The user is sleeping'
  STOP  ;* Do whatever you want here.
   END
REPEAT
*
* User entered something, proceed as usual.
*
CRT
CRT 'User entered: ': ZZ
*
STOP
END

Regards, 
Don Robinson

From: Wjhonson 
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


Right, you don't care if they are at input exactly.
You care if they are squatting on a lock.

So your periodic lock checker thingie, has to be combined with a nasty
email-o-gram campaign
Until the users are well edumacated.




-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 10:44 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


I guess you would need to merge this with the routine to detect who has
locks 
pen (except running every two mins, not five)
  To determine who is sitting at an input prompt at a menu (which might be
ok), 
s someone who is sitting at an input
  Prompt and hogging the locks!
George
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:18 PM
o: donr_w...@yahoo.com; u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Timed* activity on a *line* is controlled by the O/S not within Universe per

e.  Or at least you shouldn't expect Universe to keep you informed when
lines 
re idle, natively.
So (being on AIX a type of Unix) you are going to need to write a 
onstantly-running background task which queries the last modified timestamp
on 
he lines and reports on idle lines.  This is something controlled in AIX you

now.  Not just the timestamps but the timeout conditions.
But *acting* on these in an automatic fashion would be quite dangerous to
the 
ntegrity of your database, I'm sure you know.
his should be used for informational purposes only.  You get your reports, 
itch at the users involved, and gradually they learn to stop doing it.
That's the best approach, IMHO, having lived through this exact scenario in
many 
ompanies.


Original Message-
rom: Don Robinson 
o: U2 listserver 
ent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 6:26 am
ubject: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

ello all,
e are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem
with 
ers opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit at
the 
PUT statement for a long time.
ost of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
en a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.
hat is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of

me, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite
the 
plication!
IRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
ything about this in the UV manual.
hanks,
on Robinson
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Rex Gozar]

He already has the use-case; someone in some specific screen/program
is getting locked out.  That's where you start.

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 3:54 PM, George Gallen  wrote:
> The tough part isn't so much the qty of but knowing which ones are the 
> important
> Ones that will most likely be affected. Depending on the turnover of staff, 
> the
> Current staff might not know the code that well, and pinpointing the top 
> programs
> That should be converted first could be a shot in the dark.
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[George Gallen]

The tough part isn't so much the qty of but knowing which ones are the important
Ones that will most likely be affected. Depending on the turnover of staff, the
Current staff might not know the code that well, and pinpointing the top 
programs
That should be converted first could be a shot in the dark.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Rex Gozar
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 3:46 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

The OP's system probably doesn't have three thousand READU statements;
I'm willing to guess a few hundred.  And out of that few hundred,
maybe a dozen of those READU's block user access during normal
day-to-day operation.  And yet a CEO, manager, whatever wouldn't have
a problem implementing some input-timing thingy?

rex
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Wjhonson]

I believe he was discussing putting that on a *single* program, not every 
program.
I would strongly advise against putting a creature like that on every program.
That's the sort of change that can bring a fast machine to its knees.



-Original Message-
From: Rex Gozar 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 12:46 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


The OP's system probably doesn't have three thousand READU statements;
'm willing to guess a few hundred.  And out of that few hundred,
aybe a dozen of those READU's block user access during normal
ay-to-day operation.  And yet a CEO, manager, whatever wouldn't have
 problem implementing some input-timing thingy?
rex
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Rex Gozar]

The OP's system probably doesn't have three thousand READU statements;
I'm willing to guess a few hundred.  And out of that few hundred,
maybe a dozen of those READU's block user access during normal
day-to-day operation.  And yet a CEO, manager, whatever wouldn't have
a problem implementing some input-timing thingy?

rex
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Wjhonson]

"On your system", as you said, versus in the rest of the programming world, 
where a programmer works for a manager, who works for another manager, who 
reports to a committee, who reports to the CEO, who gets funded by sometimes 
not so understanding money guys.

Rex we don't have the luxury of being in the decision chair to make such 
changes :)
That's the world.

In addition to the non-hot-dog approach of actually testing your changes... on 
three hundred programs, or three thousand.




-Original Message-
From: Rex Gozar 
To: dgreen ; U2 Users List 

Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


It does not matter if a system is old or not, you gotta keep it up to
ate.  "Maintenance programming" means adding LOCKED clauses that
hould have been there in the first place.  I doubt it would take more
han a few hours; probably less time than writing and debugging some
ff-the-wall input timer routine.  There probably aren't that many
ritical READU's.  On my system, for the number of programs I have in
he system, I only have a third as many READU's.
ex
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Rex Gozar]

It does not matter if a system is old or not, you gotta keep it up to
date.  "Maintenance programming" means adding LOCKED clauses that
should have been there in the first place.  I doubt it would take more
than a few hours; probably less time than writing and debugging some
off-the-wall input timer routine.  There probably aren't that many
critical READU's.  On my system, for the number of programs I have in
the system, I only have a third as many READU's.
rex
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Re: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

[George Gallen]

Ahhh, yes, that would explain it.

That's as bad as grade school, where you get in trouble when someone
Else was talking!  (sorry, visions of nuns just went through my mind).

George

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:36 PM
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification


It was because I said "*" :) OmniCare decided I was cussin
Hahaha  I mean Jimminy Cricket people
Some email admins have nothing to do


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Re: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

[Nancy Fisher]

Not me.

Nancy Fisher
Peninsula Truck Lines, Inc
Federal Way, Washington
253/929-2040
Visit our Website www.peninsulatruck.com
nan...@peninsulatruck.com


-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:28 AM
To: U2 Users
Subject: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

Is this real? Or did I get spammed by a bot scraping the U2 archives?

I couldn't figure out what anything in my post that would have triggered it.
Anyone else getting these?

George

-Original Message-
From: Administrator [mailto:sme...@omnicare.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:44 PM
To: George Gallen
Subject: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

This email has violated the PROFANITY.
and Quarantine entire message has been taken on 3/27/2012 1:43:37 PM.
Message details:
Server: OCR2K8EXHUB01
Sender: ggal...@wyanokegroup.com;
Recipient: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org;
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement. 
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Re: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

[Wjhonson]

It was because I said "bitch" :) OmniCare decided I was cussin
Hahaha  I mean Jimminy Cricket people
Some email admins have nothing to do



-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 11:28 am
Subject: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification


Is this real? Or did I get spammed by a bot scraping the U2 archives?
I couldn't figure out what anything in my post that would have triggered it.
nyone else getting these?
George
-Original Message-
rom: Administrator [mailto:sme...@omnicare.com] 
ent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:44 PM
o: George Gallen
ubject: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification
This email has violated the PROFANITY.
nd Quarantine entire message has been taken on 3/27/2012 1:43:37 PM.
essage details:
erver: OCR2K8EXHUB01
ender: ggal...@wyanokegroup.com;
ecipient: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org;
ubject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement. 
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Re: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

[George Gallen]

It was on my other post - which did make it to the list. I thought maybe it was 
triggered by "HOGGING"

George

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Robert Houben
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:31 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

You're probably not allowed to "kill" the "zombie". It's discrimination. On the 
other hand, you *can* create a honeypot of brains and trap them. Much more 
humane! :)

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen
Sent: March-27-12 11:28 AM
To: U2 Users
Subject: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

Is this real? Or did I get spammed by a bot scraping the U2 archives?

I couldn't figure out what anything in my post that would have triggered it.
Anyone else getting these?

George

-Original Message-
From: Administrator [mailto:sme...@omnicare.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:44 PM
To: George Gallen
Subject: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

This email has violated the PROFANITY.
and Quarantine entire message has been taken on 3/27/2012 1:43:37 PM.
Message details:
Server: OCR2K8EXHUB01
Sender: ggal...@wyanokegroup.com;
Recipient: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org;
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[David A. Green]

Don,

You should at least optimize the code by just checking a counter and not
messing with TIME().  Your NAP command automatically takes care of the
amount of time spent in each loop.  You just need to count how many NAPs it
takes to equal the amount of wait time you wish to have.

David A. Green
(480) 813-1725
DAG Consulting

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Don Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 11:07 AM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Thanks to all who responded.
 
At the point in the programs where this is a problem for us, we know the
user has a lock, we just want to release the lock. This will be done where
they already have the option of aborting so no problem with partial updates,
etc.
 
The only gotcha on this is if they type one character, the INPUTIF will wait
forever on the Enter key but this isn't too likely.
 
The following code does this pretty well.
 
* Don Robinson
* Testing the INPUTIF statement.
*
PROMPT ''
*
ZZ = ''
TIME.OUT.TIME = INT(TIME()) + 10  ;* Wait 10 seconds.
LOOP
   INPUTIF ZZ THEN EXIT
   NAP 100
   IF INT(TIME()) > TIME.OUT.TIME THEN
  CRT 'The user is sleeping'
  STOP  ;* Do whatever you want here.
   END
REPEAT
*
* User entered something, proceed as usual.
*
CRT
CRT 'User entered: ': ZZ
*
STOP
END

Regards, 
Don Robinson

From: Wjhonson 
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


Right, you don't care if they are at input exactly.
You care if they are squatting on a lock.

So your periodic lock checker thingie, has to be combined with a nasty
email-o-gram campaign
Until the users are well edumacated.




-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 10:44 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


I guess you would need to merge this with the routine to detect who has
locks 
pen (except running every two mins, not five)
  To determine who is sitting at an input prompt at a menu (which might be
ok), 
s someone who is sitting at an input
  Prompt and hogging the locks!
George
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:18 PM
o: donr_w...@yahoo.com; u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Timed* activity on a *line* is controlled by the O/S not within Universe per

e.  Or at least you shouldn't expect Universe to keep you informed when
lines 
re idle, natively.
So (being on AIX a type of Unix) you are going to need to write a 
onstantly-running background task which queries the last modified timestamp
on 
he lines and reports on idle lines.  This is something controlled in AIX you

now.  Not just the timestamps but the timeout conditions.
But *acting* on these in an automatic fashion would be quite dangerous to
the 
ntegrity of your database, I'm sure you know.
his should be used for informational purposes only.  You get your reports, 
itch at the users involved, and gradually they learn to stop doing it.
That's the best approach, IMHO, having lived through this exact scenario in
many 
ompanies.


Original Message-
rom: Don Robinson 
o: U2 listserver 
ent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 6:26 am
ubject: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

ello all,
e are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem
with 
ers opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit at
the 
PUT statement for a long time.
ost of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
en a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.
hat is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of

me, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite
the 
plication!
IRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
ything about this in the UV manual.
hanks,
on Robinson
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Re: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

[Robert Houben]

You're probably not allowed to "kill" the "zombie". It's discrimination. On the 
other hand, you *can* create a honeypot of brains and trap them. Much more 
humane! :)

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of George Gallen
Sent: March-27-12 11:28 AM
To: U2 Users
Subject: [U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

Is this real? Or did I get spammed by a bot scraping the U2 archives?

I couldn't figure out what anything in my post that would have triggered it.
Anyone else getting these?

George

-Original Message-
From: Administrator [mailto:sme...@omnicare.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:44 PM
To: George Gallen
Subject: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

This email has violated the PROFANITY.
and Quarantine entire message has been taken on 3/27/2012 1:43:37 PM.
Message details:
Server: OCR2K8EXHUB01
Sender: ggal...@wyanokegroup.com;
Recipient: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org;
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.
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[U2] FW: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

[George Gallen]

Is this real? Or did I get spammed by a bot scraping the U2 archives?

I couldn't figure out what anything in my post that would have triggered it.
Anyone else getting these?

George

-Original Message-
From: Administrator [mailto:sme...@omnicare.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:44 PM
To: George Gallen
Subject: [MailServer Notification]Content Filtering Notification

This email has violated the PROFANITY.
and Quarantine entire message has been taken on 3/27/2012 1:43:37 PM.
Message details:
Server: OCR2K8EXHUB01
Sender: ggal...@wyanokegroup.com;
Recipient: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org;
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement. 
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Wjhonson]

Although you are right in a grounds-up approach, the problem is that, most code 
is old.
Many managers are adverse to *fixing* code that is working, because if you keep 
opening the oven door the souffle will fall.
Even if you just stomp around a lot

So the approach of monitor from the outside and whack the mole when it appears.



-Original Message-
From: Rex Gozar 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 11:24 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


I know the OP wanted to know how long a user session has been idle,
ut real problem is the second person waiting for the lock to be
eleased.
The best practice is to always have LOCKED clauses on your READU's,
nd never to "block on a lock", i.e. a user input process should hit
he locked clause and report who has the desired record locked, and
iving the user an out if they cannot access the record at this time.
atch and phantom processes should not block either, waiting 5-10
econds and retrying up to specific number of times (say 10), then
kipping over the record and leaving it for subsequent processing.
rex
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Rex Gozar]

I know the OP wanted to know how long a user session has been idle,
but real problem is the second person waiting for the lock to be
released.

The best practice is to always have LOCKED clauses on your READU's,
and never to "block on a lock", i.e. a user input process should hit
the locked clause and report who has the desired record locked, and
giving the user an out if they cannot access the record at this time.
Batch and phantom processes should not block either, waiting 5-10
seconds and retrying up to specific number of times (say 10), then
skipping over the record and leaving it for subsequent processing.

rex
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[George Gallen]

We have had at times, the telnet session gets lost somehow, and the process 
becomes zombied,
   And the lock never gets released. We have to go in and manually kill the 
process which
   Then releases the lock (or clear the locks through UV - but the process is 
still zombied).

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Don Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 2:07 PM
To: U2 Users List
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Thanks to all who responded.
 
At the point in the programs where this is a problem for us, we know the user 
has a lock, we just want to release the lock. This will be done where they 
already have the option of aborting so no problem with partial updates, etc.
 
The only gotcha on this is if they type one character, the INPUTIF will wait 
forever on the Enter key but this isn't too likely.
 
The following code does this pretty well.
 
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[John Hester]

You could have a phantom utility launched by cron that steps through the lock 
table, attempts to acquire a lock on the each locked item, and loops while 
keeping track of elapsed time.  If the lock is released within the time limit, 
exit and do nothing.  If the time is exceeded, send something to the user's 
/dev/tty device prior to exiting (could be a message, or you could just repeat 
the terminal bell 5000 times to get their attention without scrolling the 
display up).  There is some shell scripting involved in isolating the user's 
tty and sending output to it, but it's not too complex.  This is similar to how 
we handle users that are holding up phantom processes that can't speak for 
themselves.  You'd need to have a number of these processes spawning 
simultaneously to cover all the locks, though.  In our application, the phantom 
that's being held up writes out a record indicating who the culprit is, so we 
only need a single instance of the monitoring script running.  That's probably 
a cleaner way to handle the situation, but it would involve rewriting your 
application to include locked clauses.

-John

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Don Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 6:27 AM
To: U2 listserver
Subject: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Hello all,
 
We are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem 
with users opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit 
at the INPUT statement for a long time.
 
Most of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
when a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.
 
What is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of 
time, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite 
the application!
 
IIRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
anything about this in the UV manual.
 
Thanks,

Don Robinson
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Don Robinson]

Thanks to all who responded.
 
At the point in the programs where this is a problem for us, we know the user 
has a lock, we just want to release the lock. This will be done where they 
already have the option of aborting so no problem with partial updates, etc.
 
The only gotcha on this is if they type one character, the INPUTIF will wait 
forever on the Enter key but this isn't too likely.
 
The following code does this pretty well.
 
* Don Robinson
* Testing the INPUTIF statement.
*
PROMPT ''
*
ZZ = ''
TIME.OUT.TIME = INT(TIME()) + 10  ;* Wait 10 seconds.
LOOP
   INPUTIF ZZ THEN EXIT
   NAP 100
   IF INT(TIME()) > TIME.OUT.TIME THEN
  CRT 'The user is sleeping'
  STOP  ;* Do whatever you want here.
   END
REPEAT
*
* User entered something, proceed as usual.
*
CRT
CRT 'User entered: ': ZZ
*
STOP
END

Regards, 
Don Robinson

From: Wjhonson 
To: u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


Right, you don't care if they are at input exactly.
You care if they are squatting on a lock.

So your periodic lock checker thingie, has to be combined with a nasty 
email-o-gram campaign
Until the users are well edumacated.




-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 10:44 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


I guess you would need to merge this with the routine to detect who has locks 
pen (except running every two mins, not five)
  To determine who is sitting at an input prompt at a menu (which might be ok), 
s someone who is sitting at an input
  Prompt and hogging the locks!
George
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:18 PM
o: donr_w...@yahoo.com; u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Timed* activity on a *line* is controlled by the O/S not within Universe per 
e.  Or at least you shouldn't expect Universe to keep you informed when lines 
re idle, natively.
So (being on AIX a type of Unix) you are going to need to write a 
onstantly-running background task which queries the last modified timestamp on 
he lines and reports on idle lines.  This is something controlled in AIX you 
now.  Not just the timestamps but the timeout conditions.
But *acting* on these in an automatic fashion would be quite dangerous to the 
ntegrity of your database, I'm sure you know.
his should be used for informational purposes only.  You get your reports, 
itch at the users involved, and gradually they learn to stop doing it.
That's the best approach, IMHO, having lived through this exact scenario in 
many 
ompanies.


Original Message-
rom: Don Robinson 
o: U2 listserver 
ent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 6:26 am
ubject: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

ello all,
e are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem with 
ers opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit at the 
PUT statement for a long time.
ost of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
en a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.
hat is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of 
me, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite the 
plication!
IRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
ything about this in the UV manual.
hanks,
on Robinson
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Wjhonson]

Right, you don't care if they are at input exactly.
You care if they are squatting on a lock.

So your periodic lock checker thingie, has to be combined with a nasty 
email-o-gram campaign
Until the users are well edumacated.




-Original Message-
From: George Gallen 
To: U2 Users List 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 10:44 am
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


I guess you would need to merge this with the routine to detect who has locks 
pen (except running every two mins, not five)
  To determine who is sitting at an input prompt at a menu (which might be ok), 
s someone who is sitting at an input
  Prompt and hogging the locks!
George
-Original Message-
rom: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] 
n Behalf Of Wjhonson
ent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:18 PM
o: donr_w...@yahoo.com; u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
ubject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Timed* activity on a *line* is controlled by the O/S not within Universe per 
e.  Or at least you shouldn't expect Universe to keep you informed when lines 
re idle, natively.
So (being on AIX a type of Unix) you are going to need to write a 
onstantly-running background task which queries the last modified timestamp on 
he lines and reports on idle lines.  This is something controlled in AIX you 
now.  Not just the timestamps but the timeout conditions.
But *acting* on these in an automatic fashion would be quite dangerous to the 
ntegrity of your database, I'm sure you know.
his should be used for informational purposes only.  You get your reports, 
itch at the users involved, and gradually they learn to stop doing it.
That's the best approach, IMHO, having lived through this exact scenario in 
many 
ompanies.


Original Message-
rom: Don Robinson 
o: U2 listserver 
ent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 6:26 am
ubject: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

ello all,
e are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem with 
ers opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit at the 
PUT statement for a long time.
ost of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
en a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.
hat is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of 
me, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite the 
plication!
IRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
ything about this in the UV manual.
hanks,
on Robinson
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[George Gallen]

I guess you would need to merge this with the routine to detect who has locks 
open (except running every two mins, not five)
   To determine who is sitting at an input prompt at a menu (which might be 
ok), vs someone who is sitting at an input
   Prompt and hogging the locks!

George

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Wjhonson
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:18 PM
To: donr_w...@yahoo.com; u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org
Subject: Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


*Timed* activity on a *line* is controlled by the O/S not within Universe per 
se.  Or at least you shouldn't expect Universe to keep you informed when lines 
are idle, natively.

So (being on AIX a type of Unix) you are going to need to write a 
constantly-running background task which queries the last modified timestamp on 
the lines and reports on idle lines.  This is something controlled in AIX you 
know.  Not just the timestamps but the timeout conditions.

But *acting* on these in an automatic fashion would be quite dangerous to the 
integrity of your database, I'm sure you know.
This should be used for informational purposes only.  You get your reports, 
bitch at the users involved, and gradually they learn to stop doing it.

That's the best approach, IMHO, having lived through this exact scenario in 
many companies.




-Original Message-
From: Don Robinson 
To: U2 listserver 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 6:26 am
Subject: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


Hello all,

e are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem with 
sers opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit at the 
NPUT statement for a long time.

ost of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
hen a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.

hat is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of 
ime, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite the 
pplication!

IRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
nything about this in the UV manual.

hanks,
Don Robinson
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Wjhonson]

*Timed* activity on a *line* is controlled by the O/S not within Universe per 
se.  Or at least you shouldn't expect Universe to keep you informed when lines 
are idle, natively.

So (being on AIX a type of Unix) you are going to need to write a 
constantly-running background task which queries the last modified timestamp on 
the lines and reports on idle lines.  This is something controlled in AIX you 
know.  Not just the timestamps but the timeout conditions.

But *acting* on these in an automatic fashion would be quite dangerous to the 
integrity of your database, I'm sure you know.
This should be used for informational purposes only.  You get your reports, 
bitch at the users involved, and gradually they learn to stop doing it.

That's the best approach, IMHO, having lived through this exact scenario in 
many companies.




-Original Message-
From: Don Robinson 
To: U2 listserver 
Sent: Tue, Mar 27, 2012 6:26 am
Subject: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.


Hello all,

e are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem with 
sers opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit at the 
NPUT statement for a long time.

ost of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
hen a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.

hat is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of 
ime, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite the 
pplication!

IRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
nything about this in the UV manual.

hanks,
Don Robinson
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Woodward, Bob]

Any solution is going to require modifying your system, as far as I know, other 
than educating your users.  The best solution would be to add the LOCKED clause 
so you can find out who is the offending user and concentrate on increasing 
their knowledge.

-Original Message-
From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org 
[mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Don Robinson
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 6:27 AM
To: U2 listserver
Subject: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Hello all,
 
We are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem 
with users opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit 
at the INPUT statement for a long time.
 
Most of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
when a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.
 
What is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of 
time, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite 
the application!
 
IIRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
anything about this in the UV manual.
 
Thanks,

Don Robinson
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Sammartino, Richard]

Don, I don't know about Universe but Unidata has the INPUT - FOR statement to 
do this. It looks like this... INPUT VAR,5_: FOR 1200 ELSE IF 
@SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE = -1 THEN VAR = '*'. It waits at the input prompt for 30 
minutes, the @SYSTEM.RETURN.CODE is set to -1 to indicate a time out condition. 
The VAR = '*' is our exit character.

Rich
- Original Message -
From: "Don Robinson" 
To: "U2 listserver" 
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:26:38 AM
Subject: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

Hello all,
 
We are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem 
with users opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit 
at the INPUT statement for a long time.
 
Most of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
when a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.
 
What is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of 
time, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite 
the application!
 
IIRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
anything about this in the UV manual.
 
Thanks,

Don Robinson
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[John Thompson]

Its strange to me that Universe does not have this feature built in to the
INPUT statement...

Something like:

INPUT user_input TIMEOUT 30

Maybe I have missed something in the UV docs, but, I never could find
anything built in.  If I remember correctly other flavors of MV have had
this for a while.


On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 9:30 AM,  wrote:

> Check INPUTIF, this will return a value if the input buffer has something.
> If after 2 minutes of checking INPUTIF you have nothing it's because the
> user isn't active. If you do a LOOP with INPUTIF inside be careful to put
> an RQM or something similar in the loop.
>
>
> On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 06:26:38 -0700 (PDT), Don Robinson wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> We are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a
>> problem with users opening up a record which puts a lock on it and
>> just letting it sit at the INPUT statement for a long time.
>>
>> Most of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED
>> clause so when a second person needs the locked record, their session
>> waits.
>>
>> What is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a
>> period of time, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no
>> desire to rewrite the application!
>>
>> IIRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't
>> find anything about this in the UV manual.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Don Robinson
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>> U2-Users mailing list
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>> http://listserver.u2ug.org/**mailman/listinfo/u2-users
>>
>
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-- 
John Thompson
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Re: [U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[mhilbert]

Check INPUTIF, this will return a value if the input buffer has 
something. If after 2 minutes of checking INPUTIF you have nothing it's 
because the user isn't active. If you do a LOOP with INPUTIF inside be 
careful to put an RQM or something similar in the loop.


On Tue, 27 Mar 2012 06:26:38 -0700 (PDT), Don Robinson wrote:

Hello all,
 
We are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a
problem with users opening up a record which puts a lock on it and
just letting it sit at the INPUT statement for a long time.
 
Most of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED
clause so when a second person needs the locked record, their session
waits.
 
What is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a
period of time, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no
desire to rewrite the application!
 
IIRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't
find anything about this in the UV manual.
 
Thanks,

Don Robinson
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[U2] Detecting idle time in INPUT statement.

[Don Robinson]

Hello all,
 
We are running Universe 10.1 on AIX with about 500 users. We have a problem 
with users opening up a record which puts a lock on it and just letting it sit 
at the INPUT statement for a long time.
 
Most of the locking within the application does not use the LOCKED clause so 
when a second person needs the locked record, their session waits.
 
What is the best way to detect the user hasn't typed anything for a period of 
time, say 2 minutes? This needs to be simple as we have no desire to rewrite 
the application!
 
IIRC, some other MV systems have a timeout on the INPUT but I can't find 
anything about this in the UV manual.
 
Thanks,

Don Robinson
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