Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Mouse Theme

[Corey Woodworth]

The rule about more logos is a sound one. I also agree that the cursors
should look the same as the default theme except for the spinning logo. Such
a theme would make a great alternate theme to include but not have as
default.

Corey

On Jan 16, 2008 9:25 PM, Dylan McCall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think the Ubuntu logo idea is kind of neat, but I would prefer it if
> that was following the same style as the other pointers: White with some
> fancy lighting and a border.
> The very colourful logo seems a bit too visible for my tastes, and
> presents a slight usability issue: We have that exact Ubuntu logo at about
> the same size being used beside the main menu applet in the default install.
>
>
> Bye,
> -Dylan McCall
>
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2008 1:59 PM, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Wednesday 16 January 2008 21:30:59 xl cheese wrote:
> > > yep.  that would be my handy work.  I actually presented this idea to
> > the
> > > group and it was balked at.  :)
> > >
> > > Maybe the details of the cursor them could be refined, but I though
> > the
> > > idea of a rotating ubuntu logo was neat.
> > >
> >
> > While it does look neat we have a rule about including more ubuntu
> > logos.
> > Basically we want to keep it as easy as possible for others to take
> > ubuntu
> > and modify it as well as trying to stay as close to upstream on as many
> > pieces as possible.
> >
> > --
> > Ken
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Union mock-up compiz problem.

[Corey Woodworth]

What if we eliminate the menu's transparency and somehow force the panel to
be drawn at a higher z-index than the menu? Is that possible? That would
make the panel  cover up the shadow we need to eliminate.

Either way this effect is money, and I really hope we can figure it out.

Corey

On Jan 8, 2008 12:31 PM, Jan Niklas Hasse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> A menu is a new XWindow. Compiz draws a shadow around it, because it does
> this with all windows. I think it will be difficult to tell Compiz the
> position of the menubaritem. Unfortunately this is a completely different
> case then a GtkNotebook.
>
>
> On Jan 8, 2008 6:06 PM, xl cheese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps we can reuse the code that draws the gtkNotebook.
> >
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=C__Documents+and+Settings_whayslip_My+Documents_My+Pictures_twf.png
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > > Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 17:40:56 +0100
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] Union mock-up compiz problem.
> >
> > >
> > > On 08/01/2008, xl cheese < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's actually the way clearlooks comes out of the box. I just
> > adjusted
> > > > the color inside the engine to highlight the apps/places/system with
> > the
> > > > normal bg color instead of orange.
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if the engine could draw the tab/menu combo as one widget
> > and
> > > > compiz would recognize it and draw the shadow the way we want?
> > > >
> > >
> > > If I understand correctly you suggest using some kind of shaped window
> > > for menu+tab_header and then overlay that the normal menu button. That
> > > might work if done correctly, but it is quite tricky I think.
> > >
> > > While it might be technically possibly for the theme to rewrite the
> > > window position for the popup (to have it north-east corner match that
> > > of the panel button), I think it is a can of worms. This might trigger
> >
> > > all kinds of unknown position and focus bugs (which are notoriously
> > > hard to right).
> > >
> > > And alternative solution is to patch gtk+ itself, but that will
> > > probably break all theme not using this trick...
> > >
> > > Sorry, if I sound negative. I shall twist my brain to try and come up
> > > with more constructive response...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Mikkel
> > >
> > >
> > > > Looking at the potential dropdown problem of one item flowing into
> > the next,
> > > > plus the shadow at the same intersection, why not go the opposite
> > direction?
> > > >
> > > > Where the music selection has the solid orange highlight, why not
> > copy it
> > > > onto the places button? That way the highlight has continuity with
> > the
> > > > button, and it eliminates both the shadow and the border issue. So
> > really,
> > > > just make places the solid orange too.
> > > >
> > > > Amazing work!
> > > > -- Ken V
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 7, 2008 6:25 PM, xl cheese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think compiz will put a damper on the nice menus and menubaritem
> > > > combination.
> > > >
> > > > Compiz puts a shadow all the way around the menu.
> > > >
> > > >
> > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/Union?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=menu.png
> > > >
> > > > It may also be tricky to have the engine draw the 1px border around
> > the menu
> > > > except for the intersection of the menu and menubaritem. I'm sure
> > the right
> > > > programmer could make it happen tho.
> > > > 
> > > > > Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 01:44:02 -0500
> > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > > > > Subject: [ubuntu-art] Union mock-up updates ending.
> > > > >
> > > > > Updates to the union mock ups and sources are officially ending.
> > While
> > > > working on the most recent update, my laptop froze completely, and
> > now it
> > > > appears to be completely dead. Because I'm beginning military
> > training on
> > > > the 13th, there's no point in fixing the 6-year old beast of a
> > laptop.
> > > > >
> > > > > The data might be fine (I think it's the graphics card), and I'm
> > going to
> > > > plug my hard-drive into a desktop computer to see if I still have my
> > work;
> > > > depending on how this goes, I might get one more update loaded into
> > the
> > > > wiki, after that I'll make the most of my time with the family
> > before I
> > > > leave. If my data is corrupt or irretrievable, then I'll be forced
> > to forget
> > > > any more updates.
> > > > >
> > > > > The 0.4 update was the second last planned before calling the
> > theme design
> > > > "final". It unified outlines throughout the theme, added an
> > additional
> > > > button to the bottom of the windows, and overall had some colour
> > balancing.
> > > > If anyone wants to get a step clos

Re: [ubuntu-art] Ubuntu Mockup

[Corey Woodworth]

It looks invisible to me.

On Dec 18, 2007 4:32 PM, AA Boy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have been thinking about what I would like Ubuntu to look like, and made
> a mockup. Pretty much every shape in this except the panel background and
> wallpaper is made using SVGs. I may supply sources latter if anyone is
> interested in them. I didn't do windows yet (since I use Enlightenment, and
> don't want to change GNOME's theme right now), but I think this may be
> enough to start with. Anyway, please comment. I tried to make this a
> pleasing black/brown/orange theme.
> --
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Where's the official proposed theme idea?

[Corey Woodworth]

At first I didn't like this theme, but it is really growing on me. Of coarse
there are things that still need work. The orange in the theme feels out of
place. It just doesn't fit it because of how heavy the browns are. I think
using white as the selected item color in the menus would look a lot better.
I also think that the notification area needs to use different colors. It
needs to stand out more. Now it hardly stands out at all since it is the
same color as the background behind it, and of most windows. Speaking of the
windows, I really like the way the titlebar and menu bar are visuially
connected int the active window. In the unactive window where it looks like
just a gradient from brown to tan looks very ugly to me.

I think this theme is about the prettiest a brown theme could be, but we
would still get a lot of flac from the brown haters if this were default. I
hope that it works well with the color options in the appearence settings so
that keeping the theme but using a different  color is just a couple of
clicks worth of work.

Corey

On Dec 17, 2007 9:30 PM, Ken Vermette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Got the link, and thanks to Racoqster for the quick post on the blog. I
> know about every language BUT python, so I can try to learn python this
> weekend and assist in coding later if absolutely necessary; Would it be
> possible to work without the configurator?
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Alternate/BasicIdeals
>
> The Wiki has been updated to include a mockup with all current elements -
> and links to the SVG source and XCF source are directly below the image.
> I'll be downloading some themes that resemble mine (in their technical
> composition) and start to figure out how we could get this beast into a live
> environment! The XCF source is almost useless, but it can make life easy if
> anyone wants to make a mockup with icons & text.
>
> The large mockup doesn't include the most recent requests (several of
> which will be integrated), but it gives the closest impression to what a
> full desktop would look like right now - barring the lack of widgets.
>
> Thanks all;
> -- Ken V
>
>
> On Dec 17, 2007 7:51 PM, Iacopo Masi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On 12/17/07, Ken Vermette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > There's go GTK yet, currently most of the work is going into mockups.
> > I need
> > > to get ahold of the Murrine Developer Andrea Cimitan, and see about
> > getting
> > > information on the Transparent GTK tweaks before I start making the
> > mockups
> > > live graphics.
> >
> > Cimi will release the code when a Murrine Configurator should be
> > available so we must work towards the murrine configurator in pygtk.
> >
> > take a look at
> >
> > http://www.cimitan.com/blog/2007/12/16/searching-coders-for-the-murrine-configurator/
> >
> > --
> > Iacopo Masi
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] looking for feedback on a theme.

[Corey Woodworth]

I'm not a fan. The colors of the gtk theme are kinda off putting. I don't
care for the silk background at all. It looks like bedsheets and I don't
want bedsheets as my wallpaper. Reminds me of an advertisement for a lover's
mix cd. Also there  are too many soft gradients everywhere. It makes the gtk
theme look and feel blurry.

Corey

On Dec 5, 2007 11:11 PM, xl cheese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Slight update:
> http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6546/screenshotyp4.jpg
>
> Still need to fix the upper left and right corners of the metacity theme.
> 
> > Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 10:29:21 -0600
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] looking for feedback on a theme.
> >
> > Keep experimenting. When Ken comes back from his meeting he'll know the
> direction we're going with artwork. If a dark theme is chosen, your
> experience using less-than-perfect dark themes will help achieve dark theme
> bliss when we actually go to the mat.
> >
> > On Nov 26, 2007 10:21 AM, xl cheese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I tossed this gtk theme out last week, but did not get a response.
> > http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2537/screenshotpv8.jpg
> >
> >
> > Sure it's a little rough around the edges and the panel font is the
> wrong color, but in general how do you guys think the gradients work on the
> toolbar, menubar, and metacity?  It's mostly continuous except I added faint
> lines to seperate the bars.
> >
> > I've also been experimenting with the buttons you can create using the
> smooth engine.  I like the look you can create.  They are a little more
> 3d'ish than the ubuntulooks buttons I currently have pictured above.
> >
> > Here are some examples from gnome art:
> >
> http://art.gnome.org/preview.php?image=archive/thumbnails/gtk2/GTK2-Smooth-Desert-Shot.png
> >
> http://art.gnome.org/preview.php?image=archive/thumbnails/gtk2/GTK2-Smooth-LightYellow-Shot.png
> >
> http://art.gnome.org/preview.php?image=archive/thumbnails/gtk2/GTK2-Smooth-Ivory-Shot.png
> >
> http://art.gnome.org/preview.php?image=archive/thumbnails/gtk2/GTK2-Smooth-Tangerine-Dream-Shot.png
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> To: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> >> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:27:09 -0600
> >> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-art] more hardy mockups
> >>
> >>
> >> More ideas. Merged the menubar and metacity.
> >>
> >> http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2537/screenshotpv8.jpg
> >
> >
> > 
> > Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Connect now!
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-art mailing list
> > ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matthew Nuzum
> > newz2000 on freenode
>
> _
> Your smile counts. The more smiles you share, the more we donate. Join in.
> www.windowslive.com/smile?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Wave2_oprsmilewlhmtagline
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Icon theme suggestion

[Corey Woodworth]

I don't know what I want more, a trapper keeper ubuntu theme, or an ubuntu
themed trapper keeper.

Corey

On Nov 30, 2007 1:27 AM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 29/11/2007, xl cheese <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > In grade school mine always looked like this.
> > http://www.typophile.com/files/f755_3_5458.JPG.jpg
> >
>
> Sweet. We should obviously make an icon theme based on this. I think the
> entire artwork guidelines can easily be extrapolated from that pic.
>
> Cheers,
> Mikkel
>
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Icon theme suggestion

[Corey Woodworth]

I like it a lot. I would prefer a less cartoony style and weaker line
weights, but the colors are great!

On Nov 28, 2007 1:15 PM, Dalton Miyabara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Wow,
>
> I really like these icons. The glossy one´s are the things that "look
> glossy" in real life, like the monitor
> and the folder.
>
> So, I guess that this iconset fits with the "tango rules".
>
>
> Cheers,
> Dalton
>
>
>
> -- Cabeçalho original ---
>
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Para: ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com
> Cópia:
> Data: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 12:36:38 -0500
> Assunto: [ubuntu-art] Icon theme suggestion
>
> > Hey check out this icon theme. I dont think its too glossy. This seems
> to be
> > right up Hardy's ally.
> >
> > What do you guys think?
> >
> > http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Blangerine?content=70165
> >
> > E-mail classificado pelo Identificador de Spam Inteligente Terra.
> > Para alterar a categoria classificada, visite
> >
>
> http://mail.terra.com.br/cgi-bin/imail.cgi?+_u=dmiya&_l=1,1196271411.990951.15141.tacamaca.hst.terra.com.br,3846,Des15,Des15
> >
>
>
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[ubuntu-art] Dark Themes Again

[Corey Woodworth]

Dark Themes have come up in discussion here, but also a little bit on Planet
Gnome recently. Jimmac, in this post: http://jimmac.musichall.cz/log/?p=395 is
very pro dark themes. But he also suggests that vanilla Gnome should ship
withe default dark theme so that developers could see the issues of dark
themes. Maybe shipping a dark theme in Hardy wouldn't be a bad idea after
all. I'm running a dark theme on my Xubuntu laptop at the moment and I'm
liking it more and more as I use it. Only Epiphany and Firefox are giving me
troubles with it, but they can most all be fixed with custom default
stylesheets, a feature both browsers support.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring dark themes up again since even Jimmac is for
the idea, although in another context. And they are the best lookin' ones =)

Corey
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Members details

[Corey Woodworth]

Corey, 24, Live in Orlando, Florida, USA.

On Nov 21, 2007 10:49 AM, Lasse Havelund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I generally just lurk, too.
>
> Lasse---16, and from Denmark.
>
> (Mikkel: Nice to see I'm not the only one here. ;])
>
> - Lasse
>
> On Wed, 2007-11-21 at 23:15 +, Justin Gruenberg wrote:
> > On Nov 21, 2007 1:38 PM, Steph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I just wanted to know from wich country is everybody here, and wich
> language
> > > do you speak (might be useful). I thought about a new "Member Page" on
> the
> > > Ubuntu Wiki, section Art, but maybe it's too private for some of us ?
> > >
> > > I'm Steph, 17 years old and living in Montpellier, France.
> > >
> > > Your turn :)
> >
> >
> > Justin, and mostly lurking 21 and all over the Midwest, USA.
> > Minnesota, Wisconsin (my "official home", Michigan.
> >
> > Very cool to see that this list has a very diverse membership.
> >
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Varied texturing

[Corey Woodworth]

Yeah, the main concept is that not every button looks the same, there is
some random variance thrown in by creating parts of the widget
algorithmically. Its a great concept, but the mockups arn't that hot.
Something like random noise in the background fo instance.

On Nov 18, 2007 4:20 PM, tonic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> That was a mockup from 2005 by seth nickell I'm sure the idea can be
> improved on.
>
> tonic
>
>
> On Sun, 2007-11-18 at 12:42 +0200, Donn wrote:
> > > tiger stripe example
> > >
> http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog-images/monkey-hoot/tiger-stripe-window.png
> > >
> > > There were other examples but I think that is the best.
> >
> > I find that hard to look at. I keep "seeing" a larger pattern clipped
> and
> > under the entire form -- as if it's only showing through the buttons.
> Like an
> > effect gone wrong, or a crashing window of some kind.
> >
> > Perhaps if the stripes were varied, toned to wrap the buttons more
> tightly
> > (increasing the 3d illusion of the button) and not so higgeldy piggeldy?
> >
> > Just sayin :)
> >
> > /d
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] DarkIce Theme

[Corey Woodworth]

My thoughts exactly. The separator looks great, but the gloss is waaay to
heavy. You can't read the titlebar in some of the screenshots. It is
dripping with style though. =)

On Nov 16, 2007 7:02 PM, Damian Vila <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The divider's nice, but the "gloss" contrast is too high, and the
> buttons looks like decoration or some kind of weird progress bar...
> Too eye candy for my taste. Maybe good to take a few ideas from...
> Regards,
>
> D.
>
> Steph escribió:
> >
> > I just found an intersting theme on Gnome-Look.org : it's called
> > DarkIce.
> > 
> >
> > What I really like in this theme is the top border of windows and
> > mixing it to Ubuntu colors or Human theme could produce something
> > great I think. I'm attaching a screenshot (hope it will work), so you
> > can all tell me what do you think about it.
> >
> > Cheers, Steph.
> >
> > PS : My desktop is not really the default one :), so you will just be
> > able to see how windows look, because my gnome panels are gone...
> >
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy gtk theme

[Corey Woodworth]

I really like the Caramello theme's colors.
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Caramello?content=67476
Its a subtle brown, and a very smokey grey/black.

Corey.

On Nov 12, 2007 3:00 AM, Günther Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Previously I worked on a design and it might give some new idea for Hardy
> now.
>
> http://szerencsefia.googlepages.com/DarkCaramel_nautilus.png/DarkCaramel_nautilus-full.jpg
> Comments?
>
>
>
> I agree, one of the best so far. Nice idea, to replace the black with some
> sort of dark brown.
> Some more thoughts on colour: Though black and orange might be a fresh
> breeze after so much Microsoft and OSX grey, it could be a little to heavy
> on a desktop that you will look at the whole day. This has to be executed
> with care. Maybe we could try to play a little more with colour:
>
> - orange, red and yellow for wallpapers/backgrounds
> - black, grey and white for windows and gtk
> - more eyepleasing and fresh colours for the icons, like blue, green,
> light brown and white
>
> I'm not quite sure if this works out, but I will try some mockups and
> colourtest this week.
>
> keep on and cheerz
> Günther
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy gtk theme

[Corey Woodworth]

Can we do a gentle noise or noise+blur texture in cairo, like in your
background? I thing gloss is on the way out too, but it is better than plain
jane flat colors. A subtle texture though would be very cool! Just so long
as it doesn't come off as a rip off of that old Mac brushed metal theme, it
would have to be more subtle than that.

Corey

On Nov 7, 2007 2:16 PM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On 07/11/2007, Andreas Nilsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:
> > > On 07/11/2007, *Andreas Nilsson* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:
> > > > On 07/11/2007, *Troy James Sobotka* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > 
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I somewhat agree with you. I think Tango is great, but I don't
> > think
> > > > that it is "Ubuntuish" in any way.
> > > Hi Mikkel!
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Andreas! :-)
> > >
> > > I guess the elegance I am looking for is something like (this goes for
> > > both icons+gtk+metacity):
> > >
> > >  * Touch of realism (not naturalism)
> > >  * Simplicity
> > >  * Minimal number of distinct features, both on a per-icon level and
> > > the desktop as a whole
> > >  * Something that you will instantly recognize as Ubuntu
> > >
> > > Where I feel Tango takes another direction is specifically in points 1
> >
> > > and 4.
> > Give me some time and I'll do some experiments and see what I can come
> > up with.
> > Ideally it would be great to have something that looked very
> > distinctive, but didn't stick out like a sore thumb from the rest of the
> >
> > desktop.
>
>
> +1. Looking forward to see what you conjure  :-)
>
> > I just want to throw in a frequently found thing in mockups around the
> > > web. Monochrome notification icons. Like the ones I attached. I think
> > > it is a great way to reduce the visual clutter. Perhaps we could use
> > > it even more extensively than that - maybe replace a some of the "less
> > > important icons" throughout the desktop with monochrome versions. That
> > > could be alternative solution instead to disabling all icons in menus.
> >
> > I think this is a cool idea and it was something that Lasse, Kenneth and
> > myself discussed last week as well.
> > We need a good solution on how to handle Pidgin status in monochrome
> > though. mpt was going to show me how Adium solved it, but we ran out of
> > time. :/
> > We also need a good technical solution on how to solve this. Should the
> > notification area pick up it's own set of icons? Or if we just replace
> > them in our theme, how do we solve it for banshee/rhythmbox that tends
> > to just stick their app icon in the notification area (and yes, that is
> > kind of a ugly behavior)?
>
>
> Yes, the technical aspects concern me (let me think about them) . I think
> it is a good policy to try and enforce a monochrome systray at least.
>
> Then we could simply compile a cynical list of "important" vs "less
> important" icons and use monochrome (or low contrast) icons for them
> throughout the rest of the desktop.
>
> Cheers,
> Mikkel
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] [Ubuntu-Art] Hardy GTK theme

[Corey Woodworth]

I agree, as much as I like dark themes, there are just too many kinks to
work out. I do like the idea of packaging an aditional dark theme with hardy
though. It would be a good base to build from if we wanted  to make a dark
theme default in hardy+1

Corey

On Nov 7, 2007 1:50 PM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On 07/11/2007, Matthew Nuzum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On Nov 7, 2007 12:14 AM, Troy James Sobotka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:
> > > Another problem with dark themes is a purely technical one. I've done
> > > a
> > > handful dark themes myself, but they always end up with small glitches
> > > here and there because not all apps are designed to respect the theme
> > > 100% This makes for a bit of an amateurish feel in the long run. That
> > > is
> > > not acceptable for Hardy.
> > >
> > > I always seem to find myself in agreement with Mikkel's observations
> > > and conclusions.
> > >
> >
> > One thing we may want to consider is quickly getting a dark theme in
> > place in Hardy so that by Alpha 1, which is released November 29th, we can
> > start getting bug reports on these problems.
> >
> > This could be as simple as including the ubuntu-studio theme, or it
> > could be more advanced. I think the key is to get something in soon. Core
> > devs are *already* running hardy, and in large part, they (not us) will need
> > to help identify and communicate these problems to upstream.
> >
> > I can personally attest that a dark theme can be usable and very
> > attractive. It is challenging to achieve a balance and to get your
> > applications working and looking good. The beauty of a dark theme is it
> > draws your eyes to your work, which will have a lighter color, and in a way
> > relegates the controls and chrome to a less prominent positions without
> > actually putting them in an unusual or unexpected place.
>
>
> This is exactly my problem with dark themes - the contrast between the
> surroundings  and the document I edit is too big. My eyes get sore after a
> few hours.
>
> For hacking in GEdit this is not a big problem because I can have a dark
> theme there too, but for OpenOffice I just *need* that white backgound. It
> is silly to have a wysiwyg editor where there colors are not what other
> people will see.
>
> An additional challenge with this type of functional art is to not be too
> > clever. It still needs to be functional.
> >
> > Hmm... that might be a cool name for the new theme: functional-art.
>
>
> On top of my previous points I simply do not believe that we can smooth
> out the rough edges (non-theme-compliant-apps) on a dark theme in 6 months.
> Hardy should be enterprise level and we cannot achieve that on a dark theme
> in that time frame. Fixing the apps require real developers, not just
> themers, and we are really short on those.
>
>
> Please not that I really do like dark themes. Maybe we should just bundle
> a dark version of the final theme.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Mikkel
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] hardy gtk theme

[Corey Woodworth]

I agree about Tango. It's nice and all, but I want something more detailed,
realistic, and well, different. I think working off the Oxygen theme
wouldn't be a bad idea since there will already be quite a lot work done on
it. Mime types and actions would already be completed. We'd mostly just have
to make gnome application icons.

I like the idea of monochrome status icons as well. If we start a new theme,
we could make the 32x32 or 48x48 icons and up very detailed SVGs that would
rival Leapord's new 512x512 icons. and everyhing a lower resolution than
that monochrome. (just a thought).

One icon set I tend to use now and again is the Gant and/or Buuf icons. I
certainly wouldn't suggest that these be the default, but what I like about
them is that they feel like little objects and not like icons. Their art has
texture and weight that really sets them apart from all the other ultra
vectorized icon sets. It would be wonderful if we could stylize our icons in
a way that also set them apart from the pack.

Corey

On Nov 7, 2007 11:44 AM, Andreas Nilsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:
> > On 07/11/2007, *Andreas Nilsson* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> >
> > Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen wrote:
> > > On 07/11/2007, *Troy James Sobotka* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 
> >
> > >
> > > I somewhat agree with you. I think Tango is great, but I don't
> think
> > > that it is "Ubuntuish" in any way.
> > Hi Mikkel!
> >
> >
> > Hi Andreas! :-)
> >
> > I guess the elegance I am looking for is something like (this goes for
> > both icons+gtk+metacity):
> >
> >  * Touch of realism (not naturalism)
> >  * Simplicity
> >  * Minimal number of distinct features, both on a per-icon level and
> > the desktop as a whole
> >  * Something that you will instantly recognize as Ubuntu
> >
> > Where I feel Tango takes another direction is specifically in points 1
> > and 4.
> Give me some time and I'll do some experiments and see what I can come
> up with.
> Ideally it would be great to have something that looked very
> distinctive, but didn't stick out like a sore thumb from the rest of the
> desktop.
> > I just want to throw in a frequently found thing in mockups around the
> > web. Monochrome notification icons. Like the ones I attached. I think
> > it is a great way to reduce the visual clutter. Perhaps we could use
> > it even more extensively than that - maybe replace a some of the "less
> > important icons" throughout the desktop with monochrome versions. That
> > could be alternative solution instead to disabling all icons in menus.
> I think this is a cool idea and it was something that Lasse, Kenneth and
> myself discussed last week as well.
> We need a good solution on how to handle Pidgin status in monochrome
> though. mpt was going to show me how Adium solved it, but we ran out of
> time. :/
> We also need a good technical solution on how to solve this. Should the
> notification area pick up it's own set of icons? Or if we just replace
> them in our theme, how do we solve it for banshee/rhythmbox that tends
> to just stick their app icon in the notification area (and yes, that is
> kind of a ugly behavior)?
>
> - Andreas
>
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Corey Woodworth]

I like those relections, I like 'em alot, especially the fixed angle ones in
the middle of the buttons. I wish they stood out with a bit more contrast
though. I would also propose making the fixed angle reflection curve
slightly at the ends towards becoming parallel with the button's borders.
(get what I mean? I'm sure there is a math word for it but I'm not good with
those)

The only complaint I have about the Murrine engine is when you select any
widget it gets a dotted rectangle border around it. Look at what happens
when you select a widget in the Aurora engine. No dotted rectangle, instead
a gradient emanates from the entire widget. That would be much nicer, but
I'd be for ANY effect other than the dotted rectangle. That seems so 1999 :)
Clearlooks, and probably every other theme but aurora seems to do the dotted
rectangle thing. Its the little details like that, that make me like Aurora
so much even though it does have more glitches than the other engines.
Another exemplary detail is the way check boxes and radio buttons quickly
fade in and out when you select and deselect them.

I do like murrine a lot though and I think it would be a great engine to
start from if we can add polish to those little details. And I love the
striped menu bar! It also seems to be more flexible than most all the other
engines when editing a gtkrc file.

Corey

On Nov 6, 2007 6:21 PM, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On 06/11/2007, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > On 06/11/2007, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tuesday 06 November 2007 16:12:12 Andrea Cimitan wrote:
> > > > I can confirm those words another time. ;)
> > > > Diagonal stripes could be fun when you have a lot of buttons with a
> > > > fixed aspect (see gcalctool for example), but when you have an app
> > > with
> > > > a lot of buttons of various aspects (some thin, some fat etc etc)
> > > the
> > > > result is a _really_ boring theme. Unconsinstent too.
> > > >
> > > > Don't waste your time now ;)
> > > >
> > >
> > > I agree completely with this. It might look nifty in a certain mockup
> > > but I am
> > > not sure it would be good in a real theme.
> > >
> > >
> > To late I already tried it out ;-P
> >
> > I agree that the look gets confusing with various size buttons, because
> > you get diagonal reflections in all sorts of different angles - this makes
> > it confusing for the eye.
> >
> > I am going to try a few other alternative gradients - diagonal
> > alternatives (fx fixed tilt) and some inspired by circle projections.
>
>
> I have some preliminary results put up on:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikkelKamstrupErlandsen/HardyThemeStorm
>
> But is just a *very* quick hack only aimed at testing various reflections.
>
>
> I will put up some more over the next days. If other people are intersted
> in theme-engine-hacking I suggest you take a quick look at
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MikkelKamstrupErlandsen/ThemeEngineTricks - which
> should get you going pretty quickly.
>
> Cheers,
> Mikkel
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Corey Woodworth]

The murrina theme may not support those diagnal gradiants, but It does have
nice up turned gradients on the sides of buttons. Probably much more
functional than the diagnal gradient. I imagine the diagnol ones would look
wierd on something like a progress bar that changes sizes.

Screencap:
http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre2/47466-2.jpg

On 11/6/07, Kenneth Wimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday 06 November 2007 16:54:18 xl cheese wrote:
> > But diagonals do look good in real themes.  These are pixmap themes.
> > http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Schwermetall?content=55578
> > http://www.gnome-look.org/CONTENT/content-pre2/62434-2.jpg
> >
> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/OrangeLiNstaBlackPlastic?content
> >=62434
>
> I still think that a simple diagonal line is not the best idea. perhaps
> there
> is a way to use diagonals at either side and connect them with something
> curvy, not sure though.
>
> >
> > The diagonals don't necessarily have to go from corner to corner to look
> > good.  Notice the similarities between the buttons in the
> > Orangelinstablackplastic theme and the human folder icons... ;)
> >
>
> In any case we are also planning on creating a new icon theme as
> well...without the gloss this time.
>
> --
> Kenneth
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Corey Woodworth]

I do like those diagnol gradients quite a bit. I would like to hack aurora
to add that feature but I've never really delved that deep into C. Here is
another gtkrc I did, this time incorporating the moomex pixmap theme into
Aurora.

http://www.milkstreetmedia.com/misc/morerubber.png

I changed the pixmaps to a more rubberized look to match the scroll bar. I
believe the original moomex was an attempt at a vista-ish look. I however
don't want to copy vista, OSX or any other os. I want something original
too. I'm working on themes and not mockups though, so I'm limited in what I
have to work with to achieve my goals. Its obvious I'm going to have to
learn how to tweak the code of the engines to get the effects I'm after. The
scrollbar of my current theme has a bug where it is outlined in black. I
need to hack the engine code to allow it to use a different color for the
scrollbar. (Much like how Clearlooks allows you to colorize the scrollbars).
That seems to me like it'll be a rather simple tweak, and a good place to
start. If I can figure out how to do that little tweak I'll then try to hack
on it some more to gets those diagonal gradient buttons, and maybe a
different effect for selected tabs.

I know a lil' C, but are there any tutorials specifically about programming
GTK engines? That would help me greatly.

Corey

On 11/4/07, Mikkel Kamstrup Erlandsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I must be honest and say that I have not seen anything yet that I think is
> really original. Sorry guys.
>
> Some of the best mockups I've seen is an old collection of Neil J Patels,
> which can be seen here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/tags/avantthemeengine/ The
> interesting thing is those diagonal reflections IMHO. I have not seen that
> anywhere else, and it looks quite nice.
>
> Observations from Neils mockups:
>
>  * The subtle drop shadows on the widgets make them stand out really
> nicely - see http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/382776014/
>
>  * In the link above notice the diagonal reflections.
>
>  * This progressbar looks really really good together with rest of the
> theme: http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/382776017/. The groove 
> in
> which it expands could be better though.
>
> The theme engine is still not implemented though. It does however look
> like it should be easy to hack Murrine or Aurora to support those diagonal
> reflections.
>
> Cheers,
> Mikkel
>
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Corey Woodworth]

One more proposal :)

This is based on Moomex, which is the 2nd highest rated gtk2 theme on
gnome-look. It is based on the Clearlooks engine, but has some pixmap
goodness thrown in. Can't get much more stable than good ol' clearlooks I
imagine. I've modified it a little bit, including making the slider handles
black and rubberized again. I like this one quite a bit, even though it is
glossier than I usually like. The black and orange hightlights really stand
out though, and give it a new feel. The black menubars and panels give off
that dark theme vibe, while avoiding all the problems with dark themes. The
only problem I'm having is that I can't change the color of the slider
handles without changing the color of the troughs. This theme needs a little
more work too. I'll prolly deglossify the panels and menubars so they match
the rubbery look of the slider handles.

Lemme all know what you think, and if this is the right direction for Hardy.
I'm learning more and more about the GTK theme engines and am up for any
ideas. If it turns out aurora isn't a problem, I may bring the pixmaped
menubars into that theme too... hmm that could be fun =)

If anyone knows how to tweak the color of the slider handles and/or troughs,
please lemme know. I'd really like it if the handels used the color defined
for the colorized scrollbars.

Here is the screencap:
http://www.milkstreetmedia.com/misc/hardygtk.png

Lemme know if you guys want the theme files too.

Corey
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Corey Woodworth]

Here is another Aurora screenshot, this time I tweaked the gtkrc to make the
scale handels look rubberized. I must say I like it quite a bit.

http://www.milkstreetmedia.com/misc/auroranblck.png

I tried to pull of the same effect in clearlooks and nodoku, but it seems
that Aurora is the only theme I've found so far who's scale handle colors
don't also change the color of the trough.

I'm still for Aurora. Its got lots of little touches that make it feel much
more modern than clearlooks and other default themes. And don't forget that
Hardy is almost 6 months off. If we choose to go with it now, we've got
plenty of time to submit and fix bugs. I think it would be well worth the
effort.

I've also attached the gtkrc file if anyone wants to try it out and/or tweak
it.

On 11/2/07, Matthew Nuzum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 11/2/07, Jacob Padilla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > http://www.456bereastreet.com/archive/200608/light_text_on_dark_background_vs_readability/
> >
> >
> > I've read before about the poor accessibility of light text on dark
> > background so I'm not really sure it's a good choice for a default theme. I,
> > personally, think it looks cool and trendy but that doesn't make it a good
> > decision for a default setting on a product with such a wide release.
>
>
> I agree.
>
> As far as Aurora goes, it looks nice but if it's a resource hog then it
> > too shouldn't be a default. If it's a resource hog then you have to ask
> > yourself, "Why is it hogging resources? Is it calling a lot of different
> > modules or something?" I guess what I'm trying to say is that with more
> > bloat comes more bugs.
> >
>
> Let me play the devil's advocate and point out that with 7.10 the system
> requirements changed requiring a minimum of 384M of RAM + whatever is needed
> by the video card if that applies to you. Hardy will be around for quite a
> while and will be the platform future versions. I think its OK if we switch
> to a theme that requires more horse power. (IMHO)
>
> Now that being said, Hardy will be supported for 3 years, twice the length
> of 7.10... we don't want to choose something that in 14mo will be abandon
> ware. (though by merit of being included as the default in Ubuntu, a project
> will automatically gain wide notoriety) I think the time to make major
> changes was with the 7.04 and 7.10 releases and maybe instead of changing
> the theme engine for Hardy we should work on polishing what we're already
> using.
> --
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> newz2000 on freenode
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>


gtkrc
Description: Binary data
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Re: [ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Corey Woodworth]

Aurora looks good in lighter colors as well, but it may come off as too
glossy. Dark themes do have their problems too. I do hate it when all my
text boxes in webpages use a dark theme when the page design expected them
to be white. Here is a pic of Aurora in lighter colors, but keeping with the
Orange:

http://www.milkstreetmedia.com/misc/aurora2.png

I really like use of orange on the buttons and the tabs in this theme. If we
were to go with a light theme still, I think I may rather prefer the
HumanFancyCandy, based on the murrina engine.

http://www.milkstreetmedia.com/misc/fancyhuman.png

I'm a sucker for that menu bar texture, and the glossiness in this theme
seems really subdued by the fact that the theme doesn't use rounded corners,
and gradients in the toolbars.

Maybe a light aurora theme with dark rubberized grips would be the way to
go. Especially if we can get rid of the glossy gradient toolbars. I'm
totally new to theming GTK but it is something I want to learn, and will be
using these as a base to learn from. I do hope to make something that'll be,
at least, in the running for default hardy theme.

Oh and Steven, the Dock is the Avant Window Navigator. It's in the gutsy
repos and here on launchpad:

https://launchpad.net/awn

Corey

On 11/1/07, Dylan McCall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> That screenshot with Aurora is definitely nice, Corey (I was looking for
> that one, actually!). I particular like the slightly darker handle widgets.
> Something about dark themes strikes me as uncommon and maybe a bit of a
> niche, though. I could be mistaken, but lighter colours seem to me to give
> natural reading, with a more paper-like feel. With that in mind, the very
> orange orange that we use at the moment would feel much more natural with a
> lighter, browner colour. Yes, I just suggested brown. Light brown, mind;
> there's a very particular colour I am thinking...
> Darker elements could be an interesting thing to ponder, though. I am not
> sure where they would fit, but some variety could help to give other widgets
> more prominence.
> The darker colours bring out images, definitely, and I think that's where
> they fit in well. That is why it works really well in Ubuntu Studio, and why
> I was playing with dark themes while toying with F-Spot, then back to a
> light theme as soon as I started doing my usual stuff. Worth considering
> that IDEs tend to have white backgrounds, and so do text editors. That
> reflects my own experiences quite well: it is definitely easier to see black
> on white than tiny white writing on black (or dark grey).
> I am willing to bet that the majority of users do texty stuff as opposed
> to graphical, artistic stuff. (Which is why we have Ubuntu Studio for the
> others!)
>
> Another thing I have against black / orange was also something that
> bothered me with OpenMoko's earlier interface. (You will notice at this
> point, with the 2007.2 interface, that it has a prevalence of white in the
> main interface details, with dark colours just on the edges. Very
> attractive). Orange is a harsh colour, and one which begs for attention
> against a dark background like that. However, in this case and the case of
> OpenMoko's earlier interface, it becomes a regular colour! The only
> particularly intense colours we have left are white (used for text, maybe
> artsy icons) and varying shades of red. Orange is pretty red already, so
> red's prominence is not going to be very prominent; it blends in with the
> rest, feeling more normal. As well as being a potential issue with
> immediately recognizing UI elements, it also means less variety in the
> theme. Most of these colours are dwarfed by the dark backgrounds, so they
> have less impact and less meaning.
>
> Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit (a lot), orange isn't overused or anything.
> However, there is method to my madness: A black background requires harsh
> colours to stand out against, whereas a white one is gentle, leaving more
> room for the other colours. The grey background is a neat in-between zone,
> but as we've seen (*cough*Windows95), lighter greys look very bad in large
> quantities.
>
> Still, I like the darker handles in your screenshot. Feels like
> high-friction rubber pads, which is quite intuitive. A good reflection of
> what the widget means...
>
>
> Bye,
> -Dylan McCall
>
>
> On 11/1/07, Corey Woodworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I think a dark theme with orange highlights would be a great new
> > direction to go in. A dark theme is working out great for Ubuntu studio. If
> > we do decide to go that route, I think we should definitely consider the
> > Aurora GTK engine. It looks great with dark color schemes, and is c

[ubuntu-art] Hardy GTK Theme

[Corey Woodworth]

I think a dark theme with orange highlights would be a great new direction
to go in. A dark theme is working out great for Ubuntu studio. If we do
decide to go that route, I think we should definitely consider the Aurora
GTK engine. It looks great with dark color schemes, and is currently the
highest rated GTK engine on www.gnome-look.org . I whipped up a quick
screenshot of aurora-looks with colors from the proposed Hardy palette here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HardyDesign

Here is my screenshot:
http://www.milkstreetmedia.com/misc/aurora.png

It certainly still needs some work, but I'd be willing to pursue it if there
is interest.

Corey
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