Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Sat, 2006-05-27 at 12:00 -0500, Billy wrote: > On Sat, 2006-05-27 at 19:24 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote: > > I am talking about System -> Preferences -> Theme > > > > Not including the ones I added after the initial install: > > > > Human > > Clearlooks > > Crux > > Glider > > Grand Canyon > > High Contrast > > High Contrast Inverse > > [...] > > Simple > > Smokey Blue > > Traditional > > Again, you are not listeningCrux, Glider, Grand Canyon, High > Contrast Inverse, Simple, Smokey Blue, Traditional > are to be removed. Ah, fair enough. I missed that email, apologies. Well I guess this would mean that we will ship the Human theme and it's respectable variants along with the chosen community themes and when users want more, GNOME-look.org. No need for more themes at this stage then. :) Cheers, Pascal signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Sat, 2006-05-27 at 19:24 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote: On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 20:46 -0500, Billy wrote: > On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 23:25 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 02:34 -0500, Billy wrote: > > > Yes, and the idea that there should be just primary colors is why > > > ubuntu art falls short of the mark. Do you have a second choice in > > > Windows? Do you have second choice in mac? I've said it many times. > > > Why not linux? Why not Ubuntu? People have repeatedly asked for it > > > from Ubuntu's beginning and everytime this 'Human' branding thing is > > > stated. Human/Ubuntu branding would not be lost by offering an > > > alternative. It would howerver give people a choice and Ubuntu is > > > Linux above and before everything else. > > > > > > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png > > > > > > > This is true. GNU/Linux and Ubuntu is about choice. You are not > > compelled to use Human. Currently (running Dapper) I could 17 or so > > themes in the main display of the themes dialoge. Is that not enough? If > > the user really wants more sites like GNOME-look.org exist for that purpose. > > I don't know what they've done with the packages, because i haven't > seen anything new or diff. From what I understood, upon a default > install, gnome themes would be cleaned out and your choices would be > -clearlooks > -Human > -5 themes from the art-team > > So where are you getting 17 or so? I am talking about System -> Preferences -> Theme Not including the ones I added after the initial install: Human Clearlooks Crux Glider Grand Canyon High Contrast High Contrast Inverse [...] Simple Smokey Blue Traditional Again, you are not listeningCrux, Glider, Grand Canyon, High Contrast Inverse, Simple, Smokey Blue, Traditional are to be removed. The point I was trying to make is that we should focus on the results for Dapper and then meet up, discussing leadership positions and other things on the meeting agenda before we individually do what we please. It is a much more organised fashion to get work done and allows us to coordinate our efforts. This was in response to Viper's original email on the Subject lines matter. :) I said that days ago. bvc= > You miss the point. Human is ubuntulooks. So is Dapper-Drake and > Silicon, if they made it into the packaging. They do not have the > other elements of the Human desktop enviornment. > Ubunulooks-Quicksilver (I don't like its colors) would have been good > for that since so many people like blue. Tango is install by default > but there's no gtk theme to go with. That makes a lot of sense. The > only attempt to unify the desktop is with Human. I mentioned Windows > and Mac as an example to say that another (or 2 or 3) good, unified > desktop env should be offered in any os claiming to be in the race > with the others. Otherwise, stick with ugly gnome defaults, slap a > clearlooks together, use Tangerine and go home. Yet, that's not what > anyone wants, is it? > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png > -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 20:46 -0500, Billy wrote: > On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 23:25 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote: > > On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 02:34 -0500, Billy wrote: > > > Yes, and the idea that there should be just primary colors is why > > > ubuntu art falls short of the mark. Do you have a second choice in > > > Windows? Do you have second choice in mac? I've said it many times. > > > Why not linux? Why not Ubuntu? People have repeatedly asked for it > > > from Ubuntu's beginning and everytime this 'Human' branding thing is > > > stated. Human/Ubuntu branding would not be lost by offering an > > > alternative. It would howerver give people a choice and Ubuntu is > > > Linux above and before everything else. > > > > > > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png > > > > > > > This is true. GNU/Linux and Ubuntu is about choice. You are not > > compelled to use Human. Currently (running Dapper) I could 17 or so > > themes in the main display of the themes dialoge. Is that not enough? If > > the user really wants more sites like GNOME-look.org exist for that purpose. > > I don't know what they've done with the packages, because i haven't > seen anything new or diff. From what I understood, upon a default > install, gnome themes would be cleaned out and your choices would be > -clearlooks > -Human > -5 themes from the art-team > > So where are you getting 17 or so? I am talking about System -> Preferences -> Theme Not including the ones I added after the initial install: Human Clearlooks Crux Glider Grand Canyon High Contrast High Contrast Inverse [...] Simple Smokey Blue Traditional The point I was trying to make is that we should focus on the results for Dapper and then meet up, discussing leadership positions and other things on the meeting agenda before we individually do what we please. It is a much more organised fashion to get work done and allows us to coordinate our efforts. This was in response to Viper's original email on the Subject lines matter. :) Kind regards, Pascal > You miss the point. Human is ubuntulooks. So is Dapper-Drake and > Silicon, if they made it into the packaging. They do not have the > other elements of the Human desktop enviornment. > Ubunulooks-Quicksilver (I don't like its colors) would have been good > for that since so many people like blue. Tango is install by default > but there's no gtk theme to go with. That makes a lot of sense. The > only attempt to unify the desktop is with Human. I mentioned Windows > and Mac as an example to say that another (or 2 or 3) good, unified > desktop env should be offered in any os claiming to be in the race > with the others. Otherwise, stick with ugly gnome defaults, slap a > clearlooks together, use Tangerine and go home. Yet, that's not what > anyone wants, is it? > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png > signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 20:53 -0700, Chuck Huber wrote: On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 20:46 -0500, Billy wrote: > You miss the point. Human is ubuntulooks. So is Dapper-Drake and > Silicon, if they made it into the packaging. They do not have the > other elements of the Human desktop enviornment. > Usually proprietary software products are branded from start to finish. Even if there is a choice of color(and usually there isn't) you start with the same artwork as the original theme and work from there. If themes are available, you colorize the original to lessen the workload. For Dapper I think the community did remarkably well to choose Human, Tangerine, Gion and nuoveXT icon themes -- but how do we find 3 icon sets of this quality next time that haven't been used in competing distros? Some have mentioned sticking with Tango but it would be hard to bind or brand Tango with Ubuntu. Same with nuoveXT, or Gion, though we might be able to colorize them as we did Tangerine. In any case, the metatheme idea is similar in concept to what we did with Tangerine just taken one step further. Chuck You don't use 3 diff icon themes. You use Human Icons in 3 colors. Human ubuntulooks in 3 colors. Wallpaper in 3 colors. Gdm in 3 colors...etc.. lil somthin for everyone. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 20:46 -0500, Billy wrote: > You miss the point. Human is ubuntulooks. So is Dapper-Drake and > Silicon, if they made it into the packaging. They do not have the > other elements of the Human desktop enviornment. > Usually proprietary software products are branded from start to finish. Even if there is a choice of color(and usually there isn't) you start with the same artwork as the original theme and work from there. If themes are available, you colorize the original to lessen the workload. For Dapper I think the community did remarkably well to choose Human, Tangerine, Gion and nuoveXT icon themes -- but how do we find 3 icon sets of this quality next time that haven't been used in competing distros? Some have mentioned sticking with Tango but it would be hard to bind or brand Tango with Ubuntu. Same with nuoveXT, or Gion, though we might be able to colorize them as we did Tangerine. In any case, the metatheme idea is similar in concept to what we did with Tangerine just taken one step further. Chuck -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
El vie, 26-05-2006 a las 11:11 +0200, Andreas Nilsson escribió: Why reinvent the wheel a bazillion times just because something is Not Invented Here[tm]? Perhaps it should be a nice idea to start polishing other parts of the interface during Edgy. There are lots of stuff that needs a lot of love from talented artists, both in Ubuntu and on the free desktop in general. - Andreas I tend to agree with Andreas, for example, we have Tangerine that is great but we're still going for Human icons which are relatively good but not great. Also, Tangerine is clearly based on Tango, but it has the Ubuntu stamp with it's unique color palette, and stands on the (great) effort done by the Tango team. I tend to think that standing on the shoulders of giants is a good thing (TM). -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 23:25 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote: On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 02:34 -0500, Billy wrote: > Yes, and the idea that there should be just primary colors is why > ubuntu art falls short of the mark. Do you have a second choice in > Windows? Do you have second choice in mac? I've said it many times. > Why not linux? Why not Ubuntu? People have repeatedly asked for it > from Ubuntu's beginning and everytime this 'Human' branding thing is > stated. Human/Ubuntu branding would not be lost by offering an > alternative. It would howerver give people a choice and Ubuntu is > Linux above and before everything else. > > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png > This is true. GNU/Linux and Ubuntu is about choice. You are not compelled to use Human. Currently (running Dapper) I could 17 or so themes in the main display of the themes dialoge. Is that not enough? If the user really wants more sites like GNOME-look.org exist for that purpose. I don't know what they've done with the packages, because i haven't seen anything new or diff. From what I understood, upon a default install, gnome themes would be cleaned out and your choices would be -clearlooks -Human -5 themes from the art-team So where are you getting 17 or so? You miss the point. Human is ubuntulooks. So is Dapper-Drake and Silicon, if they made it into the packaging. They do not have the other elements of the Human desktop enviornment. Ubunulooks-Quicksilver (I don't like its colors) would have been good for that since so many people like blue. Tango is install by default but there's no gtk theme to go with. That makes a lot of sense. The only attempt to unify the desktop is with Human. I mentioned Windows and Mac as an example to say that another (or 2 or 3) good, unified desktop env should be offered in any os claiming to be in the race with the others. Otherwise, stick with ugly gnome defaults, slap a clearlooks together, use Tangerine and go home. Yet, that's not what anyone wants, is it? http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 14:21 +0100, Sean Hammond wrote: Hey, where can I download those metathemes (if they exist)? They look interesting. I think having multiple meta-themes like that is a good idea. On 5/26/06, Billy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png I don't really have them, though it is not hard to do. The icon themes were never finished either. I was trying to push the basic concept that is normal and expected in the gui/os world but it is one that everyone in linux/ubuntu has missed, even still.for some reason. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 02:34 -0500, Billy wrote: > Yes, and the idea that there should be just primary colors is why > ubuntu art falls short of the mark. Do you have a second choice in > Windows? Do you have second choice in mac? I've said it many times. > Why not linux? Why not Ubuntu? People have repeatedly asked for it > from Ubuntu's beginning and everytime this 'Human' branding thing is > stated. Human/Ubuntu branding would not be lost by offering an > alternative. It would howerver give people a choice and Ubuntu is > Linux above and before everything else. > > http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png > This is true. GNU/Linux and Ubuntu is about choice. You are not compelled to use Human. Currently (running Dapper) I could 17 or so themes in the main display of the themes dialoge. Is that not enough? If the user really wants more sites like GNOME-look.org exist for that purpose. On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 07:29 -0400, Viper550 wrote: > Note, when it comes to changing themes for Edgy, we have no choice: > > Let's listen to what Mark Shuttleworth said: > > "The overarching theme of the first set of Ubuntu releases is > "Humanity". This drives our choice of artwork as much as our selection > of packages and decisions around the installer. Our default theme in the > first four releases of Ubuntu is called "Human", and it emphasises warm, > human colours - brown." > > First set of releases is Warty to Dapper, Edgy begins "the next cycle". > > "Our current plan is that the Dapper Drake (Ubuntu 6.06 if we hit our > June 2006 release date goal) will be the last of this first "set" of > releases. So post-Dapper we have the opportunity to define a new "feel" > or overarching theme. It would be unlikely to be... blue. But it might > be substantially different to the current Human theme. For the moment, > let's stay focused on the road to Dapper, polish up the existing Human > theme to the max for that, and then break new ground post-Dapper." > > There, what Mark said makes sense, you've been working VERY hard on > Dapper's Human theme, even going through the trouble of making your own > theme engine and FULL ICON SET! That's what I call polish to the max, > this is the last stand for Human, kinda like the X-Men (yes, I just had > to pull in a Pop-Culture reference). Human is going out with a bang, so > we have to make the Supernova here! > > Viper550 > > p.s. But if we suddenly change to continue with Human, we can turn the > "5 Elements" thing into a new set of packaged custom themes for Edgy. I think Michiel Sikma responded very well to this: > It's nice to see that you're ready to start working on Edgy full > time. > I'm anxious to begin as well, and feel that there's a lot of work to be > done for Edgy. I do also have plans concerning originality, like you, > but I first and foremost believe that we should think of a way to > document plans such as yours before we begin to criticize them. > > There are two phases in brainstorming. One in which you think things up, > and one in which you criticize those ideas. Maybe we should, given the > fact that Dapper isn't even released yet, hold back on responding to > plans such as this one until we get ourselves organized. Before you know > it, this will be a discussion on the mailing list and that will evolve > into different art discussions. Before we all slit off doing our own thing, however exiting it is, let us get Dapper released, perhaps wait a week or so and have a meeting about all this. Then we can sit down and work, rather than doing it now in a disorganised fashion. It is much better to know what each of us is interested in, doing and what overall our goals are. Once we have this set out we can go about creating some rocking work. Thanks, Pascal signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
Hey, where can I download those metathemes (if they exist)? They look interesting. I think having multiple meta-themes like that is a good idea. On 5/26/06, Billy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png -- Sean's mailing list bin -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
Hello, beige/sandy would be nice for Ubuntu. Something more peaceful that bright orange. Étienne. -- Verso l'Alto ! -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
Op 26-mei-2006, om 13:29 heeft Viper550 het volgende geschreven: Note, when it comes to changing themes for Edgy, we have no choice: Let's listen to what Mark Shuttleworth said: "The overarching theme of the first set of Ubuntu releases is "Humanity". This drives our choice of artwork as much as our selection of packages and decisions around the installer. Our default theme in the first four releases of Ubuntu is called "Human", and it emphasises warm, human colours - brown." First set of releases is Warty to Dapper, Edgy begins "the next cycle". "Our current plan is that the Dapper Drake (Ubuntu 6.06 if we hit our June 2006 release date goal) will be the last of this first "set" of releases. So post-Dapper we have the opportunity to define a new "feel" or overarching theme. It would be unlikely to be... blue. But it might be substantially different to the current Human theme. For the moment, let's stay focused on the road to Dapper, polish up the existing Human theme to the max for that, and then break new ground post-Dapper." There, what Mark said makes sense, you've been working VERY hard on Dapper's Human theme, even going through the trouble of making your own theme engine and FULL ICON SET! That's what I call polish to the max, this is the last stand for Human, kinda like the X-Men (yes, I just had to pull in a Pop-Culture reference). Human is going out with a bang, so we have to make the Supernova here! Viper550 p.s. But if we suddenly change to continue with Human, we can turn the "5 Elements" thing into a new set of packaged custom themes for Edgy. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art Regardless of what's been mentioned, it should be understood that making major changes to the user interface, such as the base color, has implications. For one, it would require complete rebranding, such as a new logo (which reflects the new color), new designs for promotional leaflets, a changed website design, et cetera. It would also mean that if we choose blue, for example, there might be a conflict with Kubuntu's branding style. It's a rather large change which should be extensively documented after we figure out what we want. That's why I would like this meeting to take place very soon, preferably this weekend. I think that although it's great to see a lot of good suggestions coming from those interested in working hard to make Edgy a really good release, it's kind of ahead of time to start tossing down concrete plans as of yet. We'll need to cooperate on one plan if we're going to make this happen, afterall. Michiel -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
Note, when it comes to changing themes for Edgy, we have no choice: Let's listen to what Mark Shuttleworth said: "The overarching theme of the first set of Ubuntu releases is "Humanity". This drives our choice of artwork as much as our selection of packages and decisions around the installer. Our default theme in the first four releases of Ubuntu is called "Human", and it emphasises warm, human colours - brown." First set of releases is Warty to Dapper, Edgy begins "the next cycle". "Our current plan is that the Dapper Drake (Ubuntu 6.06 if we hit our June 2006 release date goal) will be the last of this first "set" of releases. So post-Dapper we have the opportunity to define a new "feel" or overarching theme. It would be unlikely to be... blue. But it might be substantially different to the current Human theme. For the moment, let's stay focused on the road to Dapper, polish up the existing Human theme to the max for that, and then break new ground post-Dapper." There, what Mark said makes sense, you've been working VERY hard on Dapper's Human theme, even going through the trouble of making your own theme engine and FULL ICON SET! That's what I call polish to the max, this is the last stand for Human, kinda like the X-Men (yes, I just had to pull in a Pop-Culture reference). Human is going out with a bang, so we have to make the Supernova here! Viper550 p.s. But if we suddenly change to continue with Human, we can turn the "5 Elements" thing into a new set of packaged custom themes for Edgy. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
Viper550 wrote: But, my goal for Edgy is to make an entire suite of ORIGINAL artwork to be there by default. Except for the Ubuntulooks Engine (which should stay, because we like it and all), I want every piece of artwork in Edgy to be original, not based off anything, built from scratch. I've been concerned that the Ubuntu installations have not had 100% original Artwork. On the first version, we used Industrial and a theme based off Glider, 5.04 at least used the ClearLooks engine, but still that Metacity theme stayed! Now for Dapper, we do have an original Theme engine (based off ClearLooks), we have a brand new original icon set (built from scratch!), but now your "Human" metacity is based off ClearLooks 2 Metacity. Why can't we have 100% original stuff?! And I can even tell the difference between Human Metacity and ClearLooks 2 Metacity (slightly different buttons). Even worse, we had several GREAT metacity suggestions on the wiki that we completely ignored! There, now that my rant is over, let me catch my breath... Viper550 Why reinvent the wheel a bazillion times just because something is Not Invented Here[tm]? Perhaps it should be a nice idea to start polishing other parts of the interface during Edgy. There are lots of stuff that needs a lot of love from talented artists, both in Ubuntu and on the free desktop in general. - Andreas -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On 5/26/06, Billy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 02:34 -0500, Billy wrote: On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 11:03 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote: On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 14:38 -0400, Viper550 wrote: > Now that Dapper is behind us, I've got big plans and ideas for Edgy's > artwork, Originality is just one of them: > > We all know that the first "theme cycle" of Ubuntu is over. Dapper and > the Human Level is done with, so we need a new color scheme. My proposal > for the new color scheme of Edgy is what I like to call: Frozen. > > I know the following statement will also effect the future of Ubuntu, > but what I'd really like to see is the next Ubuntu themes to be based > off the 5 elements of Japanese philosophy. These 5 elements are Earth, > Water, Fire, Wind, and Void. Warty to Dapper have covered Earth (a.k.a. > Human), so the next item in the order of the elements would be Water. > But, Mark didn't go with blue by default because he wanted to > differentiate Ubuntu from the rest with a unique color scheme (Brown). > Going along with that, I decided to still go with Water...but in a > different form: Ice. Attached is my mockup of what this Frozen theme > would look like (using Ubuntulooks and Human Metacity). > > But, my goal for Edgy is to make an entire suite of ORIGINAL artwork to > be there by default. Except for the Ubuntulooks Engine (which should > stay, because we like it and all), I want every piece of artwork in Edgy > to be original, not based off anything, built from scratch. I've been > concerned that the Ubuntu installations have not had 100% original > Artwork. On the first version, we used Industrial and a theme based off > Glider, 5.04 at least used the ClearLooks engine, but still that > Metacity theme stayed! Now for Dapper, we do have an original Theme > engine (based off ClearLooks), we have a brand new original icon set > (built from scratch!), but now your "Human" metacity is based off > ClearLooks 2 Metacity. Why can't we have 100% original stuff?! And I can > even tell the difference between Human Metacity and ClearLooks 2 > Metacity (slightly different buttons). Even worse, we had several GREAT > metacity suggestions on the wiki that we completely ignored! > > There, now that my rant is over, let me catch my breath... > > Viper550 > We differ ourselves a lot from other distributions and one of the ways we intend to achieve that is through the desktop. Although we may disagree with the way the new Human icon set is currently being developed, or the themes and styles it uses and so on, we are going down one chosen path and that is a 'Human' feel. Not everyone likes the brown and orange tones or the new icon set but feedback has shown that the originality already expressed through the released artwork is good and generally people like it. The primary colours used, the styles and general feel of the Ubuntu desktop has been decided upon. We have an original theme, with an original icon set and changing that every second release is not what we plan to do. If users do not like the Human artwork they are free to change it to any of the other themes provided with main. Cheers, Pascal Klein Yes, and the idea that there should be just primary colors is why ubuntu art falls short of the mark. Do you have a second choice in Windows? Do you have second choice in mac? I've said it many times. Why not linux? Why not Ubuntu? People have repeatedly asked for it from Ubuntu's beginning and everytime this 'Human' branding thing is stated. Human/Ubuntu branding would not be lost by offering an alternative. It would howerver give people a choice and Ubuntu is Linux above and before everything else. http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png Choice is good business. Strangely, many include color in their choice of whether to install or buy. If they knew they had a few choices, or even one they wanted. They wouldn't install or buy something else. Just ask GM and Ford. They've learned the hard way. -- I think that what we started to do with Dapper themes is a good idea - start with a good theme, and provide really good alternative options and _make sure people are aware_ that they can change what it looks like. Mandrake used to allow users to choose a theme at install time (just throwing it into the mix :P) But also, yes, lets keep really detailed discussion for when we actually know what the remit of the art-team is!! -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 02:34 -0500, Billy wrote: On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 11:03 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote: On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 14:38 -0400, Viper550 wrote: > Now that Dapper is behind us, I've got big plans and ideas for Edgy's > artwork, Originality is just one of them: > > We all know that the first "theme cycle" of Ubuntu is over. Dapper and > the Human Level is done with, so we need a new color scheme. My proposal > for the new color scheme of Edgy is what I like to call: Frozen. > > I know the following statement will also effect the future of Ubuntu, > but what I'd really like to see is the next Ubuntu themes to be based > off the 5 elements of Japanese philosophy. These 5 elements are Earth, > Water, Fire, Wind, and Void. Warty to Dapper have covered Earth (a.k.a. > Human), so the next item in the order of the elements would be Water. > But, Mark didn't go with blue by default because he wanted to > differentiate Ubuntu from the rest with a unique color scheme (Brown). > Going along with that, I decided to still go with Water...but in a > different form: Ice. Attached is my mockup of what this Frozen theme > would look like (using Ubuntulooks and Human Metacity). > > But, my goal for Edgy is to make an entire suite of ORIGINAL artwork to > be there by default. Except for the Ubuntulooks Engine (which should > stay, because we like it and all), I want every piece of artwork in Edgy > to be original, not based off anything, built from scratch. I've been > concerned that the Ubuntu installations have not had 100% original > Artwork. On the first version, we used Industrial and a theme based off > Glider, 5.04 at least used the ClearLooks engine, but still that > Metacity theme stayed! Now for Dapper, we do have an original Theme > engine (based off ClearLooks), we have a brand new original icon set > (built from scratch!), but now your "Human" metacity is based off > ClearLooks 2 Metacity. Why can't we have 100% original stuff?! And I can > even tell the difference between Human Metacity and ClearLooks 2 > Metacity (slightly different buttons). Even worse, we had several GREAT > metacity suggestions on the wiki that we completely ignored! > > There, now that my rant is over, let me catch my breath... > > Viper550 > We differ ourselves a lot from other distributions and one of the ways we intend to achieve that is through the desktop. Although we may disagree with the way the new Human icon set is currently being developed, or the themes and styles it uses and so on, we are going down one chosen path and that is a 'Human' feel. Not everyone likes the brown and orange tones or the new icon set but feedback has shown that the originality already expressed through the released artwork is good and generally people like it. The primary colours used, the styles and general feel of the Ubuntu desktop has been decided upon. We have an original theme, with an original icon set and changing that every second release is not what we plan to do. If users do not like the Human artwork they are free to change it to any of the other themes provided with main. Cheers, Pascal Klein Yes, and the idea that there should be just primary colors is why ubuntu art falls short of the mark. Do you have a second choice in Windows? Do you have second choice in mac? I've said it many times. Why not linux? Why not Ubuntu? People have repeatedly asked for it from Ubuntu's beginning and everytime this 'Human' branding thing is stated. Human/Ubuntu branding would not be lost by offering an alternative. It would howerver give people a choice and Ubuntu is Linux above and before everything else. http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png Choice is good business. Strangely, many include color in their choice of whether to install or buy. If they knew they had a few choices, or even one they wanted. They wouldn't install or buy something else. Just ask GM and Ford. They've learned the hard way. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Fri, 2006-05-26 at 11:03 +1000, Pascal Klein wrote: On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 14:38 -0400, Viper550 wrote: > Now that Dapper is behind us, I've got big plans and ideas for Edgy's > artwork, Originality is just one of them: > > We all know that the first "theme cycle" of Ubuntu is over. Dapper and > the Human Level is done with, so we need a new color scheme. My proposal > for the new color scheme of Edgy is what I like to call: Frozen. > > I know the following statement will also effect the future of Ubuntu, > but what I'd really like to see is the next Ubuntu themes to be based > off the 5 elements of Japanese philosophy. These 5 elements are Earth, > Water, Fire, Wind, and Void. Warty to Dapper have covered Earth (a.k.a. > Human), so the next item in the order of the elements would be Water. > But, Mark didn't go with blue by default because he wanted to > differentiate Ubuntu from the rest with a unique color scheme (Brown). > Going along with that, I decided to still go with Water...but in a > different form: Ice. Attached is my mockup of what this Frozen theme > would look like (using Ubuntulooks and Human Metacity). > > But, my goal for Edgy is to make an entire suite of ORIGINAL artwork to > be there by default. Except for the Ubuntulooks Engine (which should > stay, because we like it and all), I want every piece of artwork in Edgy > to be original, not based off anything, built from scratch. I've been > concerned that the Ubuntu installations have not had 100% original > Artwork. On the first version, we used Industrial and a theme based off > Glider, 5.04 at least used the ClearLooks engine, but still that > Metacity theme stayed! Now for Dapper, we do have an original Theme > engine (based off ClearLooks), we have a brand new original icon set > (built from scratch!), but now your "Human" metacity is based off > ClearLooks 2 Metacity. Why can't we have 100% original stuff?! And I can > even tell the difference between Human Metacity and ClearLooks 2 > Metacity (slightly different buttons). Even worse, we had several GREAT > metacity suggestions on the wiki that we completely ignored! > > There, now that my rant is over, let me catch my breath... > > Viper550 > We differ ourselves a lot from other distributions and one of the ways we intend to achieve that is through the desktop. Although we may disagree with the way the new Human icon set is currently being developed, or the themes and styles it uses and so on, we are going down one chosen path and that is a 'Human' feel. Not everyone likes the brown and orange tones or the new icon set but feedback has shown that the originality already expressed through the released artwork is good and generally people like it. The primary colours used, the styles and general feel of the Ubuntu desktop has been decided upon. We have an original theme, with an original icon set and changing that every second release is not what we plan to do. If users do not like the Human artwork they are free to change it to any of the other themes provided with main. Cheers, Pascal Klein Yes, and the idea that there should be just primary colors is why ubuntu art falls short of the mark. Do you have a second choice in Windows? Do you have second choice in mac? I've said it many times. Why not linux? Why not Ubuntu? People have repeatedly asked for it from Ubuntu's beginning and everytime this 'Human' branding thing is stated. Human/Ubuntu branding would not be lost by offering an alternative. It would howerver give people a choice and Ubuntu is Linux above and before everything else. http://kwh.kernow-gb.com/~bvc/theme/devel/Human-Metathemes.png -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Thu, 2006-05-25 at 14:38 -0400, Viper550 wrote: > Now that Dapper is behind us, I've got big plans and ideas for Edgy's > artwork, Originality is just one of them: > > We all know that the first "theme cycle" of Ubuntu is over. Dapper and > the Human Level is done with, so we need a new color scheme. My proposal > for the new color scheme of Edgy is what I like to call: Frozen. > > I know the following statement will also effect the future of Ubuntu, > but what I'd really like to see is the next Ubuntu themes to be based > off the 5 elements of Japanese philosophy. These 5 elements are Earth, > Water, Fire, Wind, and Void. Warty to Dapper have covered Earth (a.k.a. > Human), so the next item in the order of the elements would be Water. > But, Mark didn't go with blue by default because he wanted to > differentiate Ubuntu from the rest with a unique color scheme (Brown). > Going along with that, I decided to still go with Water...but in a > different form: Ice. Attached is my mockup of what this Frozen theme > would look like (using Ubuntulooks and Human Metacity). > > But, my goal for Edgy is to make an entire suite of ORIGINAL artwork to > be there by default. Except for the Ubuntulooks Engine (which should > stay, because we like it and all), I want every piece of artwork in Edgy > to be original, not based off anything, built from scratch. I've been > concerned that the Ubuntu installations have not had 100% original > Artwork. On the first version, we used Industrial and a theme based off > Glider, 5.04 at least used the ClearLooks engine, but still that > Metacity theme stayed! Now for Dapper, we do have an original Theme > engine (based off ClearLooks), we have a brand new original icon set > (built from scratch!), but now your "Human" metacity is based off > ClearLooks 2 Metacity. Why can't we have 100% original stuff?! And I can > even tell the difference between Human Metacity and ClearLooks 2 > Metacity (slightly different buttons). Even worse, we had several GREAT > metacity suggestions on the wiki that we completely ignored! > > There, now that my rant is over, let me catch my breath... > > Viper550 > We differ ourselves a lot from other distributions and one of the ways we intend to achieve that is through the desktop. Although we may disagree with the way the new Human icon set is currently being developed, or the themes and styles it uses and so on, we are going down one chosen path and that is a 'Human' feel. Not everyone likes the brown and orange tones or the new icon set but feedback has shown that the originality already expressed through the released artwork is good and generally people like it. The primary colours used, the styles and general feel of the Ubuntu desktop has been decided upon. We have an original theme, with an original icon set and changing that every second release is not what we plan to do. If users do not like the Human artwork they are free to change it to any of the other themes provided with main. Cheers, Pascal Klein signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
> Let's just note some things before I get going to work on my suite: > - Firstly, we are technically "done" with Dapper artwork wise, its all > packaged up, it's all ready to go. We won't have to do any more art for > Dapper between RC and Release unless we "really" have to. > - I was originally planning for something like this to run in the > running for included themes on Dapper, but I forgot all about being > wowed by the new Tangerine stuff! > > I'm about to begin work, I may have a working model by the end of the > day if I can, but for now... : ) > > Viper550 > > > We can't have anymore art in Dapper at all, I think. Not even if we "really" have to. I think that the final RC has been fully built already. Also, take your time. Remember, there's a lot of theory in design as well, so you might want to go through your art with a checklist before calling it "done". You don't usually call something done after a day of work, or at least I personally don't. Try to ask yourself everything: is the contrast right? Do the checkboxes and drop-down menus stand out correctly? Must I have a window border or not? What's the advantage of using dark title bar buttons with white symbols? It'll likely take a while before we start discussing the roadmap for Edgy as central theme, so you can take all the time you want to perfect your design. Michiel -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
Viper550 wrote: Now that Dapper is behind us, I've got big plans and ideas for Edgy's artwork, Originality is just one of them: We all know that the first "theme cycle" of Ubuntu is over. Dapper and the Human Level is done with, so we need a new color scheme. My proposal for the new color scheme of Edgy is what I like to call: Frozen. I know the following statement will also effect the future of Ubuntu, but what I'd really like to see is the next Ubuntu themes to be based off the 5 elements of Japanese philosophy. These 5 elements are Earth, Water, Fire, Wind, and Void. Warty to Dapper have covered Earth (a.k.a. Human), so the next item in the order of the elements would be Water. But, Mark didn't go with blue by default because he wanted to differentiate Ubuntu from the rest with a unique color scheme (Brown). Going along with that, I decided to still go with Water...but in a different form: Ice. Attached is my mockup of what this Frozen theme would look like (using Ubuntulooks and Human Metacity). But, my goal for Edgy is to make an entire suite of ORIGINAL artwork to be there by default. Except for the Ubuntulooks Engine (which should stay, because we like it and all), I want every piece of artwork in Edgy to be original, not based off anything, built from scratch. I've been concerned that the Ubuntu installations have not had 100% original Artwork. On the first version, we used Industrial and a theme based off Glider, 5.04 at least used the ClearLooks engine, but still that Metacity theme stayed! Now for Dapper, we do have an original Theme engine (based off ClearLooks), we have a brand new original icon set (built from scratch!), but now your "Human" metacity is based off ClearLooks 2 Metacity. Why can't we have 100% original stuff?! And I can even tell the difference between Human Metacity and ClearLooks 2 Metacity (slightly different buttons). Even worse, we had several GREAT metacity suggestions on the wiki that we completely ignored! There, now that my rant is over, let me catch my breath... Viper550 It's nice to see that you're ready to start working on Edgy full time. I'm anxious to begin as well, and feel that there's a lot of work to be done for Edgy. I do also have plans concerning originality, like you, but I first and foremost believe that we should think of a way to document plans such as yours before we begin to criticize them. There are two phases in brainstorming. One in which you think things up, and one in which you criticize those ideas. Maybe we should, given the fact that Dapper isn't even released yet, hold back on responding to plans such as this one until we get ourselves organized. Before you know it, this will be a discussion on the mailing list and that will evolve into different art discussions. I'm not saying you shouldn't post your ideas here -- that's what this mailing list is for -- but I think that before we get into more detail, we should straighten things out concerning the meeting and the wiki. In any case, I'm glad to see you're all ready to work. Michiel -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
Re: [ubuntu-art] My idea for Edgy (warning, lots of ranting!)
On Thu, 2006-25-05 at 14:38 -0400, Viper550 wrote: > > We all know that the first "theme cycle" of Ubuntu is over. Dapper > and > the Human Level is done with, so we need a new color scheme. One doesn't start with the finishing brush strokes until they have sketched. Structure. Ideas. Execution. Let's get structure in place first. It is happening as we speak. -- ubuntu-art mailing list ubuntu-art@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
