Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
I totally agree that it's confusing -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
Nicolò Chieffo wrote: I totally agree that it's confusing Is it confusing just because it's different to what you've been used to? I know it's not a justification, but OSX have been using exactly the same metaphor for many years now and it seems to be working out very well. There was a significant problem with the old icon (2 monitors), it was *totally* mysterious (what 2 monitors have to do with network connection?) and we had many complaints. There were couple of other reasons for trying out this new solution: 1. The *only* way to connect to a wireless network (which is the essence of connectivity these days) is by clicking on the network icon. Therefore it should be something that users would associate with wireless networking. 2. Having 0 signal = not connected may not be true from technical perspective, but it is true from practical perspective. You have no signal, therefore you won't be able to browse the web. Click on the icon to do something about it (check what's going on, connect to a different network, etc). I appreciate critical voices, but please be constructive. One thing I'm sure of is that we will not bring back the old icon. :) Any suggestions as to how to improve the current situation are more than welcome! Many thanks, Mat -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
I appreciate critical voices, but please be constructive. One thing I'm sure of is that we will not bring back the old icon. :) Any suggestions as to how to improve the current situation are more than welcome! Ok, I will be constructive: we need to find a generic icon that represent all types of connections: the 2 monitors icon was introduced to look like windows I think. I have a question: when you connect to a GPRS connection, do you have the same icon as the wifi? if a common icon can't be found, the current one plus a red cross in the bottom right is ok for me. Now I'm doing a search at icons in gnome-look -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
Mat Tomaszewski wrote: Nicolò Chieffo wrote: I totally agree that it's confusing Is it confusing just because it's different to what you've been used to? I know it's not a justification, but OSX have been using exactly the same metaphor for many years now and it seems to be working out very well. There was a significant problem with the old icon (2 monitors), it was *totally* mysterious (what 2 monitors have to do with network connection?) and we had many complaints. There were couple of other reasons for trying out this new solution: 1. The *only* way to connect to a wireless network (which is the essence of connectivity these days) is by clicking on the network icon. Therefore it should be something that users would associate with wireless networking. 2. Having 0 signal = not connected may not be true from technical perspective, but it is true from practical perspective. You have no signal, therefore you won't be able to browse the web. Click on the icon to do something about it (check what's going on, connect to a different network, etc). I appreciate critical voices, but please be constructive. One thing I'm sure of is that we will not bring back the old icon. :) Any suggestions as to how to improve the current situation are more than welcome! There *is* a difference between 0 signal and not connected, even from a practical perspective - 0 signal means you need to move closer to the access point, not connected means you have to initiate a connection - they're different failure modes with different practical action required. I agree that it's a problem that there is no obvious icon to represent the abstract concept of network. In absence of any better suggestions, I agree with Nicolò Chieffo's suggestion - a red cross overlaid on the existing icon would be a reasonable solution. Max. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
(``-_-´´) -- BUGabundo wrote: human-icon-theme (0.33.2) jaunty; urgency=low * Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon -- Kenneth Wimer kw...@ubuntu.com Thu, 05 Mar 2009 18:36:53 +0100 Can this be reverted? The new icon is very deceiving, making me think I have my WiFi On, but with no signal. I rather have the old icon back. Not only deceiving but really wrong, IMHO. I have a WLAN USB stick which has no signal strength indication. How can I distinguish between WiFi on and network offline? Nils -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
Max Bowsher wrote: Mat Tomaszewski wrote: Nicolò Chieffo wrote: I totally agree that it's confusing Is it confusing just because it's different to what you've been used to? I know it's not a justification, but OSX have been using exactly the same metaphor for many years now and it seems to be working out very well. There was a significant problem with the old icon (2 monitors), it was *totally* mysterious (what 2 monitors have to do with network connection?) and we had many complaints. There were couple of other reasons for trying out this new solution: 1. The *only* way to connect to a wireless network (which is the essence of connectivity these days) is by clicking on the network icon. Therefore it should be something that users would associate with wireless networking. 2. Having 0 signal = not connected may not be true from technical perspective, but it is true from practical perspective. You have no signal, therefore you won't be able to browse the web. Click on the icon to do something about it (check what's going on, connect to a different network, etc). I appreciate critical voices, but please be constructive. One thing I'm sure of is that we will not bring back the old icon. :) Any suggestions as to how to improve the current situation are more than welcome! There *is* a difference between 0 signal and not connected, even from a practical perspective - 0 signal means you need to move closer to the access point, not connected means you have to initiate a connection - they're different failure modes with different practical action required. It's a corner case (when your signal strenght is 0 you're likely to get disconnected anyway), but yes, agreed :) I agree that it's a problem that there is no obvious icon to represent the abstract concept of network. In absence of any better suggestions, I agree with Nicolò Chieffo's suggestion - a red cross overlaid on the existing icon would be a reasonable solution. +1 from me. Thanks! Mat -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
are you going to change also nm-connection-editor.png ? what is the offline icon in KDE? proposal 1: we have 4 kind of network devices in the system (eth, wifi, gprs, modem). It's not a good idea to forget the other icons. So the best proposal for me would be a 'morphing' icon that is before a cable + red cross (if an ethernet device is available), then the 0 signal wifi + red cross (if a wifi device is available), the the 0 signal gprs + red cross (if a gprs device is available), then a modem + red cross (if a modem device is available). proposal 2: Type --- Icon folder folder file file email mail trash trash network net? In fact the meaning of network is that your computer is connected with other computers creating a logical net. Simple proposal: one computer in the bottom right, over a net (drawn with dotted or dashed lines) [O.T. starts here] the 2 monitors icon was introduced to look like windows I think. Yes, and that kinda answers the question why we didn't particularily like it ;) Windows is not bad... it's just different. Apple is worse (philosophically speaking): closed source + closed hardware licences only + price really overcharged = devil (for me) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
Alexander Sack wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 11:17:32AM +, Mat Tomaszewski wrote: Nicolò Chieffo wrote: I totally agree that it's confusing Is it confusing just because it's different to what you've been used to? I know it's not a justification, but OSX have been using exactly the same metaphor for many years now and it seems to be working out very well. I have no strong opinion about this, except that its a coin flip which trades new confusion by exising users with no confusion for mac users migrating to ubuntu. Personally, I think there is no clear win with this new approach. However, i think there is a better solution available and if we think that that solution is the right way to go, we might consider to skip the current 00_signal step and wait for the right fix; which could be like: 1. if no wireless card is available use the wired disconnected icon +1 2. if wireless card is available and you are not connected, use a searching icon if no APs are in reach/known or if there APs visible use a proper signal strength but indicate that we are not connected by using a grey/inactive appearence. I'm more in favour of a simple solution - 0 signal+red x for not connected and then various signal strengths when connected. Mat -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
Olá Nicolò e a todos. On Saturday 07 March 2009 13:11:29 Nicolò Chieffo wrote: proposal 1: we have 4 kind of network devices in the system (eth, wifi, gprs, modem). It's not a good idea to forget the other icons. So the best proposal for me would be a 'morphing' icon that is before a cable + red cross (if an ethernet device is available), then the 0 signal wifi + red cross (if a wifi device is available), the the 0 signal gprs + red cross (if a gprs device is available), then a modem + red cross (if a modem device is available). I like the idea of the red cross! -- Hi, I'm BUGabundo, and I am Ubuntu (whyubuntu.com) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
Olá Mat e a todos. On Saturday 07 March 2009 11:17:32 Mat Tomaszewski wrote: Is it confusing just because it's different to what you've been used to? I know it's not a justification, but OSX have been using exactly the same metaphor for many years now and it seems to be working out very well. Never used a mac so i cant say, but i like the old icon, thats why i emailed the list in the 1st place! took me a few ours and reading the change log to understand why the heck my wifi was at zero, even though I hadnt connected it yet.. even restarted NM daemon and nm-applet to be sure. There was a significant problem with the old icon (2 monitors), it was *totally* mysterious (what 2 monitors have to do with network connection?) and we had many complaints. mysterious?? it works *very* well to me. are we starting another UM word war? why do u guys feel the need to change what is *already* great? Complains? can you give us one LP bug please? 1. The *only* way to connect to a wireless network (which is the essence of connectivity these days) is by clicking on the network icon. Therefore it should be something that users would associate with wireless networking. I use wired everyday... how about that.. how wait... where do I press now to setup a manual IP? I only see and antena icon enh? I appreciate critical voices, but please be constructive. One thing I'm sure of is that we will not bring back the old icon. :) Any suggestions as to how to improve the current situation are more than welcome! Earlier I saw one: red cross!!! -- Hi, I'm BUGabundo, and I am Ubuntu (whyubuntu.com) (``-_-´´) http://LinuxNoDEI.BUGabundo.net Linux user #443786GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
On Saturday 07 March 2009 6:17:32 am Mat Tomaszewski wrote: Nicolò Chieffo wrote: I totally agree that it's confusing Is it confusing just because it's different to what you've been used to? I know it's not a justification, but OSX have been using exactly the same metaphor for many years now and it seems to be working out very well. There was a significant problem with the old icon (2 monitors), it was *totally* mysterious (what 2 monitors have to do with network connection?) and we had many complaints. What about a greyed-out icon? -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
On Saturday 07 March 2009 11:15:29 am (``-_-´´) -- BUGabundo wrote: There was a significant problem with the old icon (2 monitors), it was *totally* mysterious (what 2 monitors have to do with network connection?) and we had many complaints. mysterious?? it works *very* well to me. are we starting another UM word war? why do u guys feel the need to change what is *already* great? Complains? can you give us one LP bug please? If you don't think of a monitor as being the entire computer (maybe they should be iMacs?), 2 monitors connected could just be a KVM switch. Also, that network monitor applet looks similar so it then it gets confusing for new users. They delete the notification area and nm-applet disappears. Then they try to add it back with network monitor applet and can't figure out why it doesn't show networks anymore. I'm sure you've seen this in #ubuntu before. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
On Saturday 07 March 2009 8:11:29 am Nicolò Chieffo wrote: are you going to change also nm-connection-editor.png ? what is the offline icon in KDE? It's an unplugged cable. -- Mackenzie Morgan http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com apt-get moo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Replacing network-offline (old version 2xmonitor) with NM wlan 0% signal strength icon
On 07/03/2009 Mat Tomaszewski wrote: There was a significant problem with the old icon (2 monitors), it was *totally* mysterious (what 2 monitors have to do with network connection?) Two monitors represent two connected or disconnected computers (depending on other factors, e.g. the icon having a red cross on it). 2. Having 0 signal = not connected may not be true from technical perspective, but it is true from practical perspective. You have no signal, therefore you won't be able to browse the web. Click on the icon to do something about it (check what's going on, connect to a different network, etc). Everything these days can be argumented by saying that one should not take the practical point of view, but this change is extremely wrong, if you pass me the term. If there is no connection, there is no connection and I should try to connect. This I can do by looking at available wireless networks, or by plugging ethernet in. If there is low signal, I have to improve the signal, e.g. by moving the laptop. As usual, what I can say is do whatever you want with ubuntu, it's yours. However, I used to think that ubuntu was also mine, so let me spend a sentence on this. In my opinion, this change makes you think that you are connected and signal is low, even though you are not connected. Hence, you may not realise that you *have to* connect. If you travel a lot (as I do), it happens to have bad connections that sometimes don't work at all. Having a way to distinguish the two cases is very important in this case. Vincenzo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
