Re: [Idea] PhoneGap support for Ubuntu
2012/11/6 Ma Xiaojun : > This is inspired by the following post: > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-November/msg6.html > > Since Ubuntu is heading towards Tablets and mobile phones now. > It would be very nice if we also join the PhoneGap camp. This occurred to me is as well when the new mobility focus was announced a few weeks ago. If you or someone has interest to tinker with the code, go ahead and add Ubuntu support :) There are indeed many platforms which try to do the same as PhoneGap, so pick your choice and add Ubuntu in front of developers' eyes! In the end I guess it will mostly matter when some of those projects really start to have developer mass, ie. real applications get published to app stores from within the framework. In that phase it'd be cool if a single button push would make it available also in Ubuntu software center, right? I don't know if some high profile apps already are published solely via eg. PhoneGap. Wikipedia app by Wikimedia foundation and BBC Olympics look to be interesting. -Timo -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Update manager mandating rebooting
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 1:35 PM, James Haigh wrote: > We use Free software. That's Free as in Freedom. But in reality, users do > not get that freedom, only developers. In order to be Free to modify the > software, you have to know how to do that. > > Even developers don't know every language, library, toolkit, etc., so while > a developer may be Free to modify some software, they may not know how to > modify other software. So they are just users to the software they don't > know how to modify. > > So 'Free software users' _rely_ on Free software developers to fulfill their > freedom to modify the software to their needs, requirements, and preference. > However, there's no real incentive for the devs to pander to the wims of the > users. Agree. > Having preferences/options/settings helps to mitigate the problem slightly, > but unfortunately, Ubuntu seems to be removing preferences in each new > version. I'm still using Natty which reached EOL a few days ago. Use Ubuntu Tweak also. > The 'Free software user' problem, and the rift between non-developer and > developer, is a problem I intend to contribute to a solution. I am working > on a concept of 'Libre not gratis'. I hope it turns out well. ;-) Haven't seen your point here. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [Idea] PhoneGap support for Ubuntu
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 7:22 PM, James Haigh wrote: > Please take a look at Kivy. It aims at crossplatform multitouch support for > both mobile and desktop. > > Anyone looking at web-based apps as a way to be crossplatform should > consider Kivy. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kivy > > James. It looks decent. But supporting one platform doesn't mean that another is useless. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: [Idea] PhoneGap support for Ubuntu
Hi, Please take a look at Kivy. It aims at crossplatform multitouch support for both mobile and desktop. Anyone looking at web-based apps as a way to be crossplatform should consider Kivy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kivy James. On Nov 6, 2012 1:06 AM, "Ma Xiaojun" wrote: > This is inspired by the following post: > > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-November/msg6.html > > Since Ubuntu is heading towards Tablets and mobile phones now. > It would be very nice if we also join the PhoneGap camp. > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss > -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
[Idea] PhoneGap support for Ubuntu
This is inspired by the following post: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-November/msg6.html Since Ubuntu is heading towards Tablets and mobile phones now. It would be very nice if we also join the PhoneGap camp. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Monday, November 05, 2012 02:27:06 PM Rodney Dawes wrote: > On Mon, 2012-11-05 at 13:58 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > > I don't know if it's been done before or not, but perhaps the Release > > > Team, and Tech Board, should take up any concerns related to some of the > > > Canonical projects' involvement in that process, with the appropriate > > > members of Canonical staff, including Mark (who is on TB anyway). Again, > > > another discussion that would have been great to have at UDS with > > > everyone in the same room, but which seems to perpetually get > > > complaints, and perhaps not discussed at appropriate times. > > > > It was extensively discussed at UDS-R and I believe things will go better > > in the next cycle. I realize that Mark's SABDFL veto is part of existing > > Ubuntu processes. I don't have any disagreement with his authority to do > > so. I do think it is mistaken for development teams (generally, but not > > inevitable) from inside Canonical that plan on getting in that way. > > Great. I know for Ubuntu One at least, we try to align with the schedule > and meet the freeze deadlines and requirements as best as possible, > though sometimes we do have to slip. However, I also push for my team at > least to not have to do freeze exceptions unless it's absolutely > required, and try to be as strict about what we can or can't put in our > stable branches (and the accompanying releases) at that point, as the > SRU and release teams would be, since I'm the one doing the packaging > for all our projects. In case you missed the sessions, the short version of the discussion is that we've moved feature freeze to the right to give more development time (IIRC 3 weeks), but the release team will be substantially more strict about what it gives an exception to this next cycle. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Update manager mandating rebooting
On Oct 31, 2012 11:50 AM, "Daniel J Blueman" wrote: ... > Don't get me wrong; I love developing on Ubuntu and Linux and use it exclusively in my professional and personal life. Now, I'd love to hear why this (IMHO regression) made sense.. I haven't seen it, but if so, this is part of a much bigger problem. We use Free software. That's Free as in Freedom. But in reality, users do not get that freedom, only developers. In order to be Free to modify the software, you have to know how to do that. Even developers don't know every language, library, toolkit, etc., so while a developer may be Free to modify some software, they may not know how to modify other software. So they are just users to the software they don't know how to modify. So 'Free software users' _rely_ on Free software developers to fulfill their freedom to modify the software to their needs, requirements, and preference. However, there's no real incentive for the devs to pander to the wims of the users. Having preferences/options/settings helps to mitigate the problem slightly, but unfortunately, Ubuntu seems to be removing preferences in each new version. I'm still using Natty which reached EOL a few days ago. The 'Free software user' problem, and the rift between non-developer and developer, is a problem I intend to contribute to a solution. I am working on a concept of 'Libre not gratis'. I hope it turns out well. ;-) Best regards, James. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Mon, 2012-11-05 at 13:58 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > I don't know if it's been done before or not, but perhaps the Release > > Team, and Tech Board, should take up any concerns related to some of the > > Canonical projects' involvement in that process, with the appropriate > > members of Canonical staff, including Mark (who is on TB anyway). Again, > > another discussion that would have been great to have at UDS with > > everyone in the same room, but which seems to perpetually get > > complaints, and perhaps not discussed at appropriate times. > > It was extensively discussed at UDS-R and I believe things will go better in > the next cycle. I realize that Mark's SABDFL veto is part of existing Ubuntu > processes. I don't have any disagreement with his authority to do so. I do > think it is mistaken for development teams (generally, but not inevitable) > from inside Canonical that plan on getting in that way. Great. I know for Ubuntu One at least, we try to align with the schedule and meet the freeze deadlines and requirements as best as possible, though sometimes we do have to slip. However, I also push for my team at least to not have to do freeze exceptions unless it's absolutely required, and try to be as strict about what we can or can't put in our stable branches (and the accompanying releases) at that point, as the SRU and release teams would be, since I'm the one doing the packaging for all our projects. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Monday, November 05, 2012 01:19:51 PM Rodney Dawes wrote: > On Mon, 2012-11-05 at 12:11 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote: > > On Monday, November 05, 2012 11:53:03 AM Rodney Dawes wrote: > > ... > > > > > There were large changes to address some specific user concerns around > > > the dash search, that went in after various freezes were in effect. > > > > ... > > That's also true of the shopping bits of dash search itself, so without > > time travel, having it be any way is impossible. Perhaps if Canonical > > had decided to work within the existing Ubuntu release process, this > > could have been landed earlier with a lot less heat/light since there > > would have been lots of time to consider the best approaches for various > > issues. > > I don't know all the specifics of how they went in, or the exact course > of process they took, but I do know they landed after freezes, and part > of 'within the existing Ubuntu release process' includes 'sabdfl > override' which the feature itself may or may not have fallen under. > > Either way, some of the changes landed extremely late (even after the > feature itself), to help address some of the user concerns. That was > the only point I'm making. I don't disagree that it would be better if > some of the teams would align better with the release process. It > certainly would be. However, there are also also some issues with doing > that as relates to the Canonical 'skunkworks' projects which Mark also > blogged about recently. > > I don't know if it's been done before or not, but perhaps the Release > Team, and Tech Board, should take up any concerns related to some of the > Canonical projects' involvement in that process, with the appropriate > members of Canonical staff, including Mark (who is on TB anyway). Again, > another discussion that would have been great to have at UDS with > everyone in the same room, but which seems to perpetually get > complaints, and perhaps not discussed at appropriate times. It was extensively discussed at UDS-R and I believe things will go better in the next cycle. I realize that Mark's SABDFL veto is part of existing Ubuntu processes. I don't have any disagreement with his authority to do so. I do think it is mistaken for development teams (generally, but not inevitable) from inside Canonical that plan on getting in that way. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Monday, November 05, 2012 08:32:35 AM Benjamin Kerensa wrote: > > Or is it the case that nobody bothered to file a blueprint? Bear in mind > > that anybody in the community can create blueprints for UDS, not just > > Canonical. > > Anyone can create one but Canonical does approve them. There are a variety of people that can approve specs for different reasons related to the work they do on Ubuntu. Not all of them work for Canonical. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Monday, November 05, 2012 12:14:51 PM Jeremy Bicha wrote: > On 5 November 2012 11:53, Rodney Dawes wrote: > > There were large changes to address some specific user concerns around > > the dash search, that went in *after* various freezes were in effect. > > One example is http://pad.lv/1065652 which while obviously a user > interface change, happened after Final Freeze without the typical > paperwork; presumably because it was *that* critical to mitigate the > privacy concerns. The release team was aware of that one. It was approved on IRC, IIRC, after review of screen shots of the intended change. It was without the normal coordination (UIF exceptions are mostly about making sure that the change has been coordinated with -docs/translations), but it was also not done without the release team knowing. This is exactly the kind of thing that could have been landed a lot more smoothly if the entire shopping lens change hadn't been landed so late in the release. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Questions About Ubuntu One Music Store
On Nov 5, 2012 2:27 PM, "Rodney Dawes" wrote: ... > Some tracks are available in FLAC (and > possibly other formats) from the provider, but those are not > readily available through the Ubuntu One store, due to various > technical reasons. This needs fixing. I once tried buying some FLAC music, and it all downloaded in MP3! James. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Questions About Ubuntu One Music Store
On Mon, 2012-11-05 at 10:39 -0600, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Rodney Dawes > wrote: > > The store does not have stores for all regions, and in China > > you perhaps may be seeing the world store. The songs and > > artist names are probably translated in the store provider's > > database for the other stores. > > Now I'm in US. So I have to see the English/US/World store? I cannot > change to another available language? You will always get the US store. As the new web store is also part of the Ubuntu One web site, the store interface itself will mostly always be in English, until such time that the developers of the site can find time to implement translations support, and then get it translated into all the languages of at least the regions we have stores for. > > Ubuntu/Canonical do not have any real control over the format > > the tracks are in. But, MP3 is the only format that does work > > absolutely everywhere. Some tracks are available in FLAC (and > > possibly other formats) from the provider, but those are not > > readily available through the Ubuntu One store, due to various > > technical reasons. You can choose to install the MP3 codec > > from within the Ubuntu installer when installing, and there > > are several implementations available for install in the > > standard Ubuntu repositories. I'm not sure exactly what > > difficulty you had which caused apport to pop up, though. > > If you are really interested, you should try a fresh install without > MP3 codec pre-installed. And see how would Rhythmbox behave in this > situation. This situation is not uncommon because in some region the > country mirror is slow. I recently installed a clean version of 12.10 on my new hard drive, to switch to 64 bit on my new workstation hardware. I didn't install the codec during install, but did so later. However, my system also isn't really a fair comparison to what others may have. I have gigabit local ethernet, and a 75/35 Mbps external connection, via fiber; and I'm using the official US archive host. Generally, the packages from the archive download extremely quickly, and install fairly fast as well (IvyBridge i7, 16 GB RAM, 750 GB hybrid SATA-III SSD/HDD). Also, I wrote the codec installer that is in the Ubuntu One Rhythmbox extension, and have tested quite a bit. I've uninstalled and installed MP3 plug-ins for gstreamer several hundreds of times on my computers to test it. Granted, there may exist issues which I didn't hit, but if the bugs get reported, and I can reproduce the problem, or it's obvious what the problem is from the report and looking at the code, I try to get them fixed as fast as I can. However, I haven't seen any such bugs reported for quite a while now. If you're talking about the general codec installer functionality that pops up in Totem, Rhythmbox, and other applications that use gstreamer, that is a completely different set of code to what I'm talking about, and I don't need to use it as often, but I also haven't really had any issues with it when I did. Installed the codec I needed OK, and started working fine. I have seen various people in the IRC channel for rhythmbox or other channels, have issues with installing codecs on 64-bit though, with the codec installer wanting to install 32-bit versions of everything, and playback not working with 64-bit versions already installed. However, while this has happened for a few people, I haven't seen enough complaints to say that it's common, nor do I know why it happened for those people. > Now I'm in US and the us country mirror works quite well. > When I'm in Hong Kong, I note that hk country mirror is located in UK > and it is quite slow in Hong Kong. > When I'm in China, I note that cn country mirror seems to be a non-CDN > so it works well at most for users of certain carrier. The Ubuntu One extension for Rhythmbox installs the MP3 codec from the Canonical Partners repository, which is not mirrored anywhere. It may be slower from some regions, due to latency, ISP issues, client connection bandwidth, etc… but it is always from the same place. > So please don't make the assumption that the user would download the > MP3 codec during installation. We don't. However, there are numerous MP3 codecs available, and numerous ways to install them. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On 5 November 2012 13:19, Rodney Dawes wrote: > I don't know if it's been done before or not, but perhaps the Release > Team, and Tech Board, should take up any concerns related to some of the > Canonical projects' involvement in that process, with the appropriate > members of Canonical staff, including Mark (who is on TB anyway). Again, > another discussion that would have been great to have at UDS with > everyone in the same room, but which seems to perpetually get > complaints, and perhaps not discussed at appropriate times. We did have that discussion Thursday morning. https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-r-ps-uife-ffe-sru Jeremy -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On 11/05/2012 11:32 AM, Benjamin Kerensa wrote: > > On Nov 5, 2012 7:53 AM, "Bruno Girin" > >> Or is it the case that nobody bothered to file a blueprint? Bear in mind >> that *anybody* in the community can create blueprints for UDS, not just >> Canonical. > > Anyone can create one but Canonical does approve them. > Did someone file one and it not get approved? If not, this isn't an excuse. cJ -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Mon, 2012-11-05 at 12:11 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote: > On Monday, November 05, 2012 11:53:03 AM Rodney Dawes wrote: > ... > > There were large changes to address some specific user concerns around > > the dash search, that went in after various freezes were in effect. > ... > That's also true of the shopping bits of dash search itself, so without time > travel, having it be any way is impossible. Perhaps if Canonical had decided > to work within the existing Ubuntu release process, this could have been > landed earlier with a lot less heat/light since there would have been lots of > time to consider the best approaches for various issues. I don't know all the specifics of how they went in, or the exact course of process they took, but I do know they landed after freezes, and part of 'within the existing Ubuntu release process' includes 'sabdfl override' which the feature itself may or may not have fallen under. Either way, some of the changes landed extremely late (even after the feature itself), to help address some of the user concerns. That was the only point I'm making. I don't disagree that it would be better if some of the teams would align better with the release process. It certainly would be. However, there are also also some issues with doing that as relates to the Canonical 'skunkworks' projects which Mark also blogged about recently. I don't know if it's been done before or not, but perhaps the Release Team, and Tech Board, should take up any concerns related to some of the Canonical projects' involvement in that process, with the appropriate members of Canonical staff, including Mark (who is on TB anyway). Again, another discussion that would have been great to have at UDS with everyone in the same room, but which seems to perpetually get complaints, and perhaps not discussed at appropriate times. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
Le 05/11/2012 18:14, Jeremy Bicha a écrit : On 5 November 2012 11:53, Rodney Dawes wrote: There were large changes to address some specific user concerns around the dash search, that went in *after* various freezes were in effect. One example is http://pad.lv/1065652 which while obviously a user interface change, happened after Final Freeze without the typical paperwork; presumably because it was *that* critical to mitigate the privacy concerns. Indeed, it happens the day of the Release Candidate, we got some IRC discussion around it and a member of the release team reviewed the upload + some extra testing from the QA team. Nobody of the documentation team was around and it was as you say, critical to get in for the RC (less than 24h deadline are always fun :)). I took great care that we don't introduce in the dash some untranslated strings (stealing the strings from ubuntu-online-account gnome-control-center panel). It wasn't an option to not include it after checking with the legal team, even if that was meaning some screenshots and documentation slightly outdated (without breaking the main documentation understanding though). Cheers, Didier -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Jeremy Bicha wrote: > One example is http://pad.lv/1065652 which while obviously a user > interface change, happened after Final Freeze without the typical > paperwork; presumably because it was *that* critical to mitigate the > privacy concerns. I think you are starting intermingle and confuse the difference between "addressing privacy concerns" and avoiding a lawsuit by adding in legal notices, the latter has nothing to do with the former and the latter only addresses the concerns of Canonical and Ubuntu. Even if you try to argue it addresses anything, it's not. Realize the truth. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On 5 November 2012 11:53, Rodney Dawes wrote: > There were large changes to address some specific user concerns around > the dash search, that went in *after* various freezes were in effect. One example is http://pad.lv/1065652 which while obviously a user interface change, happened after Final Freeze without the typical paperwork; presumably because it was *that* critical to mitigate the privacy concerns. Jeremy -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Monday, November 05, 2012 11:53:03 AM Rodney Dawes wrote: ... > There were large changes to address some specific user concerns around > the dash search, that went in after various freezes were in effect. ... That's also true of the shopping bits of dash search itself, so without time travel, having it be any way is impossible. Perhaps if Canonical had decided to work within the existing Ubuntu release process, this could have been landed earlier with a lot less heat/light since there would have been lots of time to consider the best approaches for various issues. Scott K -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Mon, 2012-11-05 at 15:52 +, Bruno Girin wrote: > It's a couple of weeks late for UDS-R but what about creating a > blueprint for UDS-S? Get the discussion going, gather examples of > privacy issues and what could be done to address them. Then at the next > UDS, we can work out solutions that satisfy Canonical, privacy conscious > users and the rest of us and that can be implemented in time for 14.04 LTS. > > Disclaimer: I do *not* work for Canonical and only have limited > experience of UDS as I only took part for the first time last week. The development process for Ubuntu does not start or stop with UDS. There are mailing lists (you know, like the one you're discussing this on), IRC channels, bug reports, and on and on. Just because something wasn't discussed at UDS, doesn't mean it can't be discussed outside of UDS, or even resolved in the cycle that the UDS was for. There's no need to wait another 6 months to have someone yet again forget to make a blueprint to discuss it at UDS. Also, Canonical and the rest of the community, are not separate. Canonical is merely part of the Ubuntu community, and provides most of the infrastructure, financing, and a significant portion of the development which allows the Ubuntu community to work so well together. Canonical cares a great deal about privacy, and twisting some of the words that it, and Ubuntu's founder, posted about the recent worries of privacy, to mean the opposite of that, doesn't help the situation much at all. What he said was "if you don't trust Canonical/Ubuntu already, and you're running Ubuntu, then you're doing something wrong." When you download an Ubuntu ISO, or view the web site, or wiki, or Launchpad, or update an existing install, or install additional software from the archive, your IP is logged via the HTTP server logs. When you install Ubuntu, you're placing a certain level of trust that it won't eat your machine. When you search on Google, your search terms and IP are logged; not only on Google, but on any of the resulting links that you click through to. You need to not only trust Google to do the right thing with that data, but also any of the sites it refers you to. Any reasonable person will understand that no software is perfect, and that any software will need continuing improvements. Dealing with concerns from the user base, whether they are about privacy or simple bugs in the software, is no different. The best way to go about getting any of the concerns fixed, is to document specific individual concerns, and file them in bug reports. Simply crying wolf (or "OMG Privacy!" in this case), doesn't specifically state anything helpful to either the developers, or the users. It only serves to stir the pot. So let's please try to keep the FUD around the issue, to a minimum. There were large changes to address some specific user concerns around the dash search, that went in *after* various freezes were in effect. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Questions About Ubuntu One Music Store
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:26 AM, Rodney Dawes wrote: > The store does not have stores for all regions, and in China > you perhaps may be seeing the world store. The songs and > artist names are probably translated in the store provider's > database for the other stores. Now I'm in US. So I have to see the English/US/World store? I cannot change to another available language? > Ubuntu/Canonical do not have any real control over the format > the tracks are in. But, MP3 is the only format that does work > absolutely everywhere. Some tracks are available in FLAC (and > possibly other formats) from the provider, but those are not > readily available through the Ubuntu One store, due to various > technical reasons. You can choose to install the MP3 codec > from within the Ubuntu installer when installing, and there > are several implementations available for install in the > standard Ubuntu repositories. I'm not sure exactly what > difficulty you had which caused apport to pop up, though. If you are really interested, you should try a fresh install without MP3 codec pre-installed. And see how would Rhythmbox behave in this situation. This situation is not uncommon because in some region the country mirror is slow. Now I'm in US and the us country mirror works quite well. When I'm in Hong Kong, I note that hk country mirror is located in UK and it is quite slow in Hong Kong. When I'm in China, I note that cn country mirror seems to be a non-CDN so it works well at most for users of certain carrier. So please don't make the assumption that the user would download the MP3 codec during installation. In China and Hong Kong, Ubuntu advocate (including me) generally advise people disconnecting Internet during installation. Because a faster, non-country mirror can be configured later. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Nov 5, 2012 7:53 AM, "Bruno Girin" wrote: > > On 05/11/12 15:08, Jordon Bedwell wrote: > >> We've just had the Ubuntu Developer Summit during which the next release > >> was planned, and everyone was welcome (both in person and online). I > >> must have missed the session on privacy, or did nobody propose one? > > I don't think there was one, I think this is a case of the few > > speaking and protecting the many and the few not having the same power > > as the many because some people won't do anything until the many step > > up and embarrass the top brass. What I am saying is, at this point I > > am to believe that Canonical and Ubuntu do not care one bit about this > > privacy cock up and they don't care that the few notice and are trying > > to help the many. They are probably gonna hold off until the many > > step up and embarrass Canonical. > > Or is it the case that nobody bothered to file a blueprint? Bear in mind > that *anybody* in the community can create blueprints for UDS, not just > Canonical. Anyone can create one but Canonical does approve them. The last time I looked at the list of blueprints that had > been filed for UDS-R, I can't remember seeing one on privacy. It would > have made an interesting subject for the community track and would have > officially documented the issues, what can be done about them and how > they will be addressed. There was some privacy discussion at the Unity Shopping Lens session. > > Someone much smarter than I am said in a recent blog post something > along the lines of "the best way to ensure a process doesn't ignore your > needs is to engage with it". So the best way to get something done in > Ubuntu is to engage with the development process, which means to engage > with UDS where the development schedule for the next 6 months is worked > out, which in turn means writing a blueprint for consideration at the > next UDS. > > It's a couple of weeks late for UDS-R but what about creating a > blueprint for UDS-S? Get the discussion going, gather examples of > privacy issues and what could be done to address them. Then at the next > UDS, we can work out solutions that satisfy Canonical, privacy conscious > users and the rest of us and that can be implemented in time for 14.04 LTS. > > Disclaimer: I do *not* work for Canonical and only have limited > experience of UDS as I only took part for the first time last week. > > Cheers, > > Bruno > > > -- > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list > Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On 05/11/12 15:08, Jordon Bedwell wrote: >> We've just had the Ubuntu Developer Summit during which the next release >> was planned, and everyone was welcome (both in person and online). I >> must have missed the session on privacy, or did nobody propose one? > I don't think there was one, I think this is a case of the few > speaking and protecting the many and the few not having the same power > as the many because some people won't do anything until the many step > up and embarrass the top brass. What I am saying is, at this point I > am to believe that Canonical and Ubuntu do not care one bit about this > privacy cock up and they don't care that the few notice and are trying > to help the many. They are probably gonna hold off until the many > step up and embarrass Canonical. Or is it the case that nobody bothered to file a blueprint? Bear in mind that *anybody* in the community can create blueprints for UDS, not just Canonical. The last time I looked at the list of blueprints that had been filed for UDS-R, I can't remember seeing one on privacy. It would have made an interesting subject for the community track and would have officially documented the issues, what can be done about them and how they will be addressed. Someone much smarter than I am said in a recent blog post something along the lines of "the best way to ensure a process doesn't ignore your needs is to engage with it". So the best way to get something done in Ubuntu is to engage with the development process, which means to engage with UDS where the development schedule for the next 6 months is worked out, which in turn means writing a blueprint for consideration at the next UDS. It's a couple of weeks late for UDS-R but what about creating a blueprint for UDS-S? Get the discussion going, gather examples of privacy issues and what could be done to address them. Then at the next UDS, we can work out solutions that satisfy Canonical, privacy conscious users and the rest of us and that can be implemented in time for 14.04 LTS. Disclaimer: I do *not* work for Canonical and only have limited experience of UDS as I only took part for the first time last week. Cheers, Bruno -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:28 PM, J Fernyhough wrote: > (As an aside, it appears that being only enthusiastic > about Ubuntu and all decisions, or at least getting in line, is a > requisite for employment there.) It is not. -- Martin -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On 5 November 2012 15:08, Jordon Bedwell wrote: -- snip -- > > I think what Canonical and Ubuntu are doing is alienating old Linux > users who are used to telling their computers what to do, not having > their computer tell them what they are going to do and then them > having to step up and almost be like "no, fu** that noise, you will do > what I want, not what you want." (and again, this is from my > perspective, do feel free to correct me with pure fact if this is not > the case) > >From those conversations I've had on IRC and G+ it appears that criticism isn't welcome within Canonical. The viewpoint is that any change they make (minor or major, window button location or built-in affiliate advertising) is greeted with an "outcry" from the outside. While this means that the signal:noise ratio is very low there are valid issues being ignored precisely because people try to point them out. In one instance I was told that my concerns weren't being ignored, "it's just that we've heard it so many times already". I'm currently looking into how Ubuntu meets the provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998, and more crucially what would need to be done to meet the requirements, so that I have some base of evidence and legal reasoning to put forward (for example, at no point in the download or installation process is it identified which information is being gathered, how it will be stored, by whom, how it will be used, or who to contact). While trying to act as a "critical friend" works in other areas I've had little success swaying opinion within Canonical-paid Ubuntu circles. (As an aside, it appears that being only enthusiastic about Ubuntu and all decisions, or at least getting in line, is a requisite for employment there.) J -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:55 AM, Robie Basak wrote: > Forks happen when people disagree. Is there really any disagreement > here? Have any privacy-related patches actually been rejected, or is it > just that nobody has written them? Patches being rejected are a bit narrow, when the Canonical lead implies (at least to me and a few others) he does not care about privacy in the default install and has not answered the many numerous complaints with nothing more than "We are not violating the law" and even going as far as ignoring the NTP issue... he speaks louder than rejecting patches on a tracker. This is from my perspective though and I have not really followed all too closely since I am the type of person to remove what I don't want and block stuff like Canonical's NTP and other tracking via our hardware firewalls instead of complaining about stuff that I myself can fix. But to me and a few others it's come to the point where it's becoming a side job and eventually a lot of users will just take out. > We've just had the Ubuntu Developer Summit during which the next release > was planned, and everyone was welcome (both in person and online). I > must have missed the session on privacy, or did nobody propose one? I don't think there was one, I think this is a case of the few speaking and protecting the many and the few not having the same power as the many because some people won't do anything until the many step up and embarrass the top brass. What I am saying is, at this point I am to believe that Canonical and Ubuntu do not care one bit about this privacy cock up and they don't care that the few notice and are trying to help the many. They are probably gonna hold off until the many step up and embarrass Canonical. I think what Canonical and Ubuntu are doing is alienating old Linux users who are used to telling their computers what to do, not having their computer tell them what they are going to do and then them having to step up and almost be like "no, fu** that noise, you will do what I want, not what you want." (and again, this is from my perspective, do feel free to correct me with pure fact if this is not the case) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: EFF & Privacy; hopefully Ubuntu will listen to users
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 09:45:59AM -0300, German Larrain M. wrote: > Well, issues like this > are the ones that motivate a fork (e.g. OpenOffice and LibreOffice) at one > time or another. Is it necessary to reach that point? I don't think so. It > would be a waste of code and resources. Forks happen when people disagree. Is there really any disagreement here? Have any privacy-related patches actually been rejected, or is it just that nobody has written them? We've just had the Ubuntu Developer Summit during which the next release was planned, and everyone was welcome (both in person and online). I must have missed the session on privacy, or did nobody propose one? (posting with my personal hat on, and not my Canonical one; I get paid to work on Server/Cloud, not Desktop/Client) -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
Re: Questions About Ubuntu One Music Store
On Sat, 2012-11-03 at 02:02 -0500, Ma Xiaojun wrote: > 1. Where is the discussion channel? > I know this list may not be a good choice. #ubuntuone on Freenode IRC. > 2. Why is it available in English only? > I find it annoying to find Chinese artists and songs using English names. > I guess non-English speaking people may have similar feelings. The store does not have stores for all regions, and in China you perhaps may be seeing the world store. The songs and artist names are probably translated in the store provider's database for the other stores. > 3. Why is it use patented MP3 format? > There may be reasons. > However, Rhythmbox behaves ridiculously when MP3 related stuff is not > installed (the state after fresh install). > It asked me for password twice and even got apport poped up later. > I was too lazy to debug this and installed "ubuntu-restricted-extra" manually. > ( I can use a VM with snapshot to try later ) Ubuntu/Canonical do not have any real control over the format the tracks are in. But, MP3 is the only format that does work absolutely everywhere. Some tracks are available in FLAC (and possibly other formats) from the provider, but those are not readily available through the Ubuntu One store, due to various technical reasons. You can choose to install the MP3 codec from within the Ubuntu installer when installing, and there are several implementations available for install in the standard Ubuntu repositories. I'm not sure exactly what difficulty you had which caused apport to pop up, though. -- Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list Ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-devel-discuss
