Shall this report about Ubuntu Testcases be closed?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

(https://bugreports.qt.io/browse/QTBUG-50459)

When answering please include my email address as recipient, as I'm not 
subscribed to these mailing lists.



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Re: I'm stopping contributing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Jono Bacon:
it is low bandwidth, you can access it on mobile phones, blind people 
can understand it with screen readers, multiple clients support it, you 
can do machine translation on it, etc.


Thanks for your input. I think this conversation has went a little 
through the roof, and better stepped away a little bit to regain 
perspective.


Right now I simply think text is better at those things, but only 
slightly better in practice. Not to make a choice based on it.


I just liked to have a way of communication which has the benefits of 
hangouts, while keeping some from email. Face to face, briefness, and 
the possibility to communicate when it better fits you.


Furthermore I think that's the future, and the way I liked to 
communicate and make business with anyone online.


We saw a jump from reading articles on the Internet to getting the same 
information through video, and I think the next logical step is having 
the same for communications. Just bandwidth wasn't good enough till 
recently to enable it, so still no software really supports that.


The jump will be from the social web to the interactive web. People 
instead of posting contents for others to consume, will interact through 
contents themselves. Because that's what really people is looking for, 
not spam from others but to interact with them.


Just my thoughts. Have a nice day.


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Re: I'm stopping contributing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Jono Bacon:
There is though a practicality issue of how people respond to content in 
a video.


Okay, text.


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Re: I'm stopping contributing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Alberto:

Okay, text.


Well, I really don't feel like it's something I wanted to do any more. 
Apart from if it practically makes sense or not.


Simply I spend a big part of my time alone writing in front of a 
computer, and the latest thing that appeals to me is relating with 
people through text. More of the same thing.


I simply don't see myself spending years and years like that, it's dull. 
Probably I would end avoiding the conversations. In fact this is what 
has been happening till now.


As I said these emails takes me plenty of time to write. Moreover they 
make me worry if people are getting what I mean or not. So I tend to 
write longer and longer and longer, till the point the conversation no 
longer makes sense.


In fact most people outside of this conjuncture says that they feel 
flattened when I took the time to answer like that. Probably we are 
reaching the tunnel effect, and close to make a quantum jump to a new 
dimension.



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Re: Odp: Re: I'm stopping contributing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Marcin Xc:
"Why" are You still ignoring people who told You that a mailing list is 
not a right place for links and videos? Especially 10 or 20 minutes long.


I understand that people suspect I'm doing things on resistance. 
Understand me when I choose to point an UI issue actually seeing the UI.



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Re: I'm stopping contributing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Stephen Kellat:
> Within the strains of my civil service posting, even machine
> translated text is easier for me to approach than video.

Before I made video-responses widespread I wanted to warrant it wouldn’t 
exclude too much people.


So I picked up a web-site which was English written, but had a wide 
diversity of people from around the world, and made this poll:


(http://girlsaskguys.com/education-career/q2272280-do-you-understand-spoken-english)

It throws that about 92% of people in an English written website will 
also be able to understand spoken English well.



Also the web-media format is incredible efficient at compressing videos, 
and watching a video response will only take as much as visualising a 
6MP photo.


At that point we can discuss that videos are longer to pay attention to, 
but that's only if you choose to do a long explanation versus a minimal one.



The idea of making video responses came out because I realised that most 
arguments which happen online, on a text basis, would never occur in a 
face to face manner.


After sending around a hundred of messages in a questions and answers 
board, where you can usually find political extremists and social 
justice warriors, it shown that very little people would answer my 
video-messages in a rude manner. Even when they usually did when 
interacting with other users, and my points were as upfront as usual.


So even when text has some obvious advantages, those things suggests me 
that video has hidden benefits. And perhaps it's far better suited for 
having discussions with people you are working with than plain text or a 
hangout, which is by far longer.


Not to say these emails takes me long time to write, compared with just 
shooting a quick video. Instead of working, I find myself spending the 
time trying to convince people of details that doesn't really matter.



Lately, when answering my latest message, I could had taken into account 
that it would be rejected anyway if it was on video. But that particular 
explanation had been way harder to understand on text, as it was about 
the disposition of elements in an interface.


I'm usually only showing you the tip of the iceberg. That something is 
short, unorthodox or casual doesn't mean it isn't well designed.


The papercuts logo, that circle with a heart origami in the middle, took 
me 30 hours to design. Imagine if I had to discuss its design in depth 
with someone. Take this email as specimen, took me 2 hours to write. I 
need my life!



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Re: I'm stopping contributing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Why we have malformed bug reports:
(https://youtu.be/sC6wG5Owu4E)

Why decisions are better delegated:
(https://youtu.be/9PWW8sryNec)

Where to place these help pages:
(https://youtu.be/vob02C4dGWI)


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Re: I'm stopping contributing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Speaking about the Roman's king, I have just received this email from a 
familiar which I have installed Ubuntu:


Cousin:
> It gets worse every time, especially at start-up, it hangs and
> needs to restart.


Other mentions in the latests two months:

Father:
> It usually hangs at start-up, and mouse stops working from time to
> time.

Friend:
> Ubuntu was no longer booting up. I needed it for my end of career
> work, so you know what I did? Removed it and installed Windows 10.


So it seems that all of these happens nearly all of the time:
(https://askubuntu.com/questions/760934/graphics-issues-after-while-installing-ubuntu-16-04-16-10-with-nvidia-graphics)

Root cause: nobody is reporting bugs and nobody is triaging them, as 
it's too hard to read the manuals. And people won't allow the needed 
change because of:


(https://plus.google.com/+AlbertoSalviaNovella/posts/6fmD4E2vKfP)


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Re: I'm stopping contributing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Marcin Xc:

I just think there is just not enough self confidence in Your videos.


(https://youtu.be/zZU4zZzEbwo)


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I'm stopping contributing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

https://youtu.be/c7Vzg0svBXI

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Re: [Ubuntu-bugcontrol] I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

On one hand we have meritocracies, like GNOME, where some people have 
the final saying about what things are going to be.


On the other we have democracies, like Debian, where all the decisions 
shall be agreed before taken on.


The first one has the drawback of usually ignoring individual needs, and 
favoring some people's agendas over the others. The second one usually 
ends in long discussions, some clueless people included in brain 
surgery, and eventually in very little job done.


What I'm proposing is that we take an hybrid approach. That we come and 
agree in what the output of the work should be, and what's important for 
everyone. But that we trust that the person in charge of that will come 
with a solution themselves.


Once the work is done we can simply see if it fits the agreed output 
well enough to start with. And if it doesn't to correct it till it does.


After that we can polish the small details with real world feedback. We 
can provide a link to ask to the Quality mailing list, and if someone 
seems to have recurring trouble with something in the manual, just 
correct it immediately.



Have third opinions if you wish:

- Steve Jobs, founder of Apple:
  (https://youtu.be/f60dheI4ARg)

- Richard Branson, founder of Virgin:
  (https://youtu.be/VH35Iz9veM0?t=3m2s)

- 37 Signals, creators of Ruby on Rails:
  (https://goo.gl/q5K1Iv)

- Robert Kiyosaki, rich and author of the bestseller "Rich Dad Poor Dad"
  (https://youtu.be/xyY5YMV2woU)



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Re: [Ubuntu-bugcontrol] I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Sorry but I spend an hour writing an answer to these emails, but even 
then I ended with something extra long that I think nobody will read or 
understand.


In fact that's what usually happens when I answer in text. On the other 
hand when I use video in a couple of minutes I'm usually done.


I will simply keep those as short as possible. And instead of making a 
monologue, with all the information, I would simulate an actual 
conversation. Usually with 10-20 seconds answers.


(https://youtu.be/L45EqUl2q4M)


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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

About:
(https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs)
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)

Sorry, but I'm absolutely convinced that the latest draft I've written 
is really what's needed.



The sections clearly reflect every use case, and they are organised in a 
logical way. The writing style is conversational and easy to understand.


The content is exactly what the user is looking for, and adding 
something else won't ease their job nor change their behaviour. If 
there's something useful to somebody else, it should go somewhere else.


The imagery suggests the page is easygoing, softens it, and makes it 
more memorable. There's nothing impolite about it, neither gives the 
wrong image of Ubuntu.


The community isn't targeted to super professionals but to all kinds of 
people, many of which are student in their teens.



So either you take it as it is, or you leave what you have. I will wait 
till Sunday the 4th, to let you decide yourselves. I will take that 
resolution as hard fact on what to expect in the future.


I'm looking forward to work only with people who are in complete 
sympathy and harmony with my purpose, which is "easy and straightforward 
over correct".


Thank you.


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NVIDIA graphics are being unstable

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

https://youtu.be/GU8exkT0vcE

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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Lets show that to the customers:

- 
(http://girlsaskguys.com/technology-internet/q2426552-would-you-follow-this)


- (https://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/16/19/87/90/answer11.png)


When I started this conversation I committed to something for my own 
curiosity, which was that I won't to shave till it was finished.


This has been the result:
(https://goo.gl/hdcLhT)


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Re: CVE-2017-7308 Linux Kernel 4.8.0 (Ubuntu) - Packet Socket Local Privilege Escalation

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

K1:
> Does anyone know the current status of CVE-2017-7308?

(https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1678009)


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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

C de-Avillez:

If this response sounds aggressive, please rest assured it
is not the intention.


It doesn't sound aggressive to me. In fact I really appreciated how you 
in particular have been treating me lately.



C de-Avillez:
> Try to look at it in a different way: some of us have a LOT of
> experience with dealing with bugs. Some of us have a LOT of experience
> with *solving* bugs. Some of us have years and years of college-level
> education, be it undergrad or graduate studies. Perhaps we *do* know
> what we are talking about.

Persons could have lot of experience, but the question is "would the 
current guide allow most people to report bugs?"


And the second question is "would the proposed draft allow most people 
to report bugs?"



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

With you permission I'm going to answer all email on video from now on. 
Simply having to agree with people on text proves to be too tense for me.


Anyway if you are unable to understand spoken English in a private 
conversation, let me know and I will make an exception there.


Thank you.


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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Flocculant:

What if the things you both agree on - everyone else in the world
disagrees with?


Since I will be showing the same draft to everyone, we will know.


Dario Ruellan:
> I have no problem leaving this in public, in fact, could be nice to
> first gather consensus regarding the actual documentation.

The problem with that is any conversation tends to be super lengthy, and 
when people discusses things in a public manner they tend to be more 
defensive. Then the conversation easily turns spam, and bystanders just 
want it to end.


On the other hand if we agree first on private we will be talking only 
about what that particular person really feels is interesting, with more 
deep, and there won't be any need to defend points of views.


Then the public conversation will be much more easygoing.



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Re: Bug with SYSLOG

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Upadhyay Manas Vijay:

Am facing a weird problem with syslog.


For reporting the bug, just follow these instructions:
(https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs?action=recall=306)

Talking about the Romans emperor ;)



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Flocculant:
> What makes you think that two people talking won't amount to the
> same?

Alberto Salvia Novella:
> (https://graphicproducts.com/articles/nemawashi)

Basically because we are not skipping the public conversation. But just 
agreeing as far as possible first in private, so what's brought to 
public is just the few things that we were unable to agree with.


That way we won't be having long discussions about minimal details, and 
it fact that will allow to dig more into the needs of individual persons.



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Flocculant:

What makes you think that two people talking won't amount to the same?


(https://graphicproducts.com/articles/nemawashi)



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Dario Ruellan:

I don't see why those two guides can't coexist, one as a quick
guide, the other as advanced guide.


What if we took advantage of the capability of wikis to abstract pages, 
and we make a guide that is concise, but provides generous amount of 
detail on sub-pages?



Dario Ruellan:
> I love the header on this page. I also like the idea about videos.

I will take note of these.

Please tell me what you think could be improved in the original page, 
and how you think those things could be solved.


(https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs)

Do in private, so we can keep the conversation as light as possible till 
we finally get it to the public.


Thanks for your help.



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Dario Ruellan:

I don't see why those two guides can't coexist, one as a quick
guide, the other as advanced guide.


What if we took advantage of the capability of wikis to abstract pages, 
and we make a guide that is concise, but provides generous amount of 
detail on sub-pages?



Dario Ruellan:
> I love the header on this page. I also like the idea about videos.

I will take note of these.

Please tell me what you think could be improved in the original page, 
and how you think those things could be solved.


(https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs)

Do in private, so we can keep the conversation as light as possible till 
we finally get it to the public.


Thanks for your help.



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

After thinking for a while about this topic I conclude I was somehow 
wrong. Rather than most of you having a bad attitude I simply think 
there's a lack of consensus about how basic things should be done, and 
also a lack of process for reaching consensus on my side.


So this is what I'm going to do:

1. Ask in private to people what they think it's needed in the reporting 
bugs guide, and how we could reach to that point.


2. Make a draft based on the agreements we made. Polish it till we agree 
as far as possible on it.


3. Bring the end result to public conversation, and finally agree on the 
end result.


4. Include the agreements in a style guide, so further contributors are 
more straightforward.


Do you feel something is missing?


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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

J:
> "run this command, I'm not going to tell you why,
> or what to expect, or how to navigate the menus and options, but just
> run this command".

The process is completely guided. It's like instructions on the 
instructions themselves. People aren't interested in that.



J:
> What degree of agreement was there before you unilaterally decided to
> replace the existing page with the one you have been working on?

A big amount of people that were frequent Ubuntu contributors are now 
posting about Fedora on their social media. And even the founder of 
Kubuntu is now making his own distribution, just because he was unable 
to figure out how to reach consensus within this community (his own words).


For years I just sat here and waited for a more appropriate moment for 
addressing those issues, but that moment never came. Meanwhile the 
contributions went drastically down, projects around Ubuntu were shut 
down because of the lack of trust on Canonical, and people started 
moving to other operating systems.


(https://youtu.be/APxGubAkOz0?t=1m4s)

Thermal bathing time is over. I want a feasible solution now, on how we 
are dealing with disagreements and how we are releasing changes in a 
sensible time frame. Otherwise I would have to do what's on my side, 
which is moving where contributing actually translates into real work.




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Gustavo Silva:

Please, do it right this time.


Seems legit, except because that degree of agreement doesn't seem possible.

Just see the latest email from J, for example. He basically suggested 
that everything is wrong, half of which was already like that in the 
original guide.


If I had to deal with that I would spend months just for one page, and 
he finally would disagree. That's the kind of criticism I receive 100% 
of time when I bring any suggestion of change to the table, and in fact 
in this topic people have been more peaceful than usual (which I greatly 
appreciate).


Also understand that 95% contributors won't have the degree of 
persistence I have on dealing with conflict. They would simply give up. 
That's the part that really worries me, not that people disagree with me 
in particular but that I see newbies having to deal with that crap and 
everyone agreeing it's cool.


So tell me Gustavo, how would you deal with these disagreements?



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Re: Showstopper bug report (17.04): WiFi not working

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Brian Murray:
> "Substituting FILE with your file name" still seems incomplete to me.

The hole section is about how to generate a file, where the previous 
step already mentions which file we are talking about:


"Copy the generated file to the system used for filing the report"

I don't think we need to clarify further what FILE is. The deixis is 
already strong there.



Gunnar Hjalmarsson:
> Personally I'd like to see much of what you removed be reinserted.

When the guide was like before people was asking frequently how to 
report bugs. It wasn't till I put a video-tutorial in the top of the 
page when they stopped doing so.


I also asked a couple of people to show me in person how they would be 
reporting bugs using that guide. Both took long time to figure it out, 
and mentioned they would normally give up.


If you bring back the guide as it was nobody except us will be using it. 
We are better only putting there what is common, and letting people ask 
the infrequent cases. If something really hurts afterwards we can bring 
the pieces back from the historic at any time.



Brian Murray:
> Did you feel like you had reached a consensus with editors of the
> page?

After a period of a week nobody opposed, and I have addressed all the 
individual issues that people reported about it.


Moreover my latest poll was also performed outside of Ubuntu. And it 
showed that were half the outsiders disagreed, hundred percent of 
insiders disagreed. And the polls were verbatim.


So in my view I cannot take disagreement too seriously here. I'm open to 
consider any option, except staying the same that proves not to work.


There's only one place where there aren't any issues:
(https://goo.gl/DmGDfR)



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Re: Showstopper bug report (17.04): WiFi not working

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Brian Murray wrote:
> Are you committing to doing the work of bringing the missing bits
> back?

Yes, I am. Moreover this is the kind of documentation I usually read, so 
if something is missing I would probably notice.



Brian Murray:
> If you are willing please edit the page and explain what PACKAGE and
> FILE mean.

Done:
(https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs)



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Re: Ubuntu Tester

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Filiberto to the Papercutters:
> Dear All,
>
> I am new to Ubuntu Testing Community. I have seen this team and I
> would like to ask you how I can be useful in testing software.
>
> I have downloaded VirtualBox machine and I have installed it. I have
> downloaded two ISO: Ubuntu 17.10 and 17.04. I would like to know how
> to recognize a bug and how to solve it.
>
> I am a programmer in Fortran and Python but I am learning Java too.
> If I can help you in some way, please tell me.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fil

The Papercutters team isn't intended for testing, but only for triaging 
and fixing the small bugs in Ubuntu:

- (https://launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts)
- (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts)

If you are interested in testing:
- (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-testing)
- (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/Tester)

Thanks for your help ;)



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Re: Showstopper bug report (17.04): WiFi not working

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Magnus Määttä:
> I guess this is the address to send mail to for bug reports since
> there aren't any valid working other ways to do it.

https://youtu.be/5R-yOJCKVJw



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Re: Shall I include artwork in technical documentation?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Colin Law:

Those of us who pay for bandwidth and/or have to manage with low
connection rates would prefer that images that do not server a purpose
should be avoided.


Images properly optimized take a negligible amount of space. This one 
took 89.3 KB.




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Re: Shall I include artwork in technical documentation?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Gunnar Hjalmarsson:
> Artwork may improve readability, but it adds to the maintenance
> burden.

The artwork I'm talking about doesn't require maintenance at all. I'm 
referring to images like the one at the bottom of this page:


(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)



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How to fix the Unity fiasco

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome/+bug/1687351

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Are you seeing this error in my emails?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Chris Pollock just said me that he's seeing the following error message 
on the top of every email he's receiving from me on this list:


>Error verifying signature: parse error
> --ms050806000101030505050803
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> https://goo.gl/forms/VDbXIhlFHVM6DleF3
>
>
> --ms050806000101030505050803--
>
> --

Are you seeing that too?



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Shall I include artwork in technical documentation?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

https://goo.gl/forms/VDbXIhlFHVM6DleF3

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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

I have came up with an alternate way to encourage people to report bugs. 
It's the second point in the Etiquette section:


(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)


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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Nicholas Skaggs:

I would encourage you to continue your efforts to improving the bug
reporting guide itself, as opposed to bikeshedding about artwork or
making yet another page.


I mean this draft is intended to substitute the official reporting 
guide, once agreed.




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Nicholas Skaggs:

I don't think you need any artwork on the page and as such I have
removed it, given it's negative response in this thread.


https://youtu.be/IGOsXqktN1M



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

C de-Avillez:

The swastika, independent of where/when it was created, now symbolises a
dark time. Some -- myself included -- consider it abhorrent; in my
case, for personal family reasons.


I understand. I have removed it in favour of something less invasive.

First I tried erasing only the swastika, so it was more neutral. But 
then the rounded centred nature of the spider took too much attention 
from the composition. So I have added an "abdomen reflection" to compensate.


And even if we finally decide not to include it on the guide, I have 
uploaded it to Wikimedia, so someone could find use for it.


(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs)



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Alberto:

The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an
original blueprint from World War 2


Forgot to mention that I have no problem changing or removing it if needed.



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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Thomas Ward:
> While the purest form of the swastika comes from non-Nazi religious
> symbols, we should avoid using it because of the way it was twisted
> during the late 30s and 40s.

The reason why the swastika is there is because that image is an 
original blueprint from World War 2, and if you see the rest of 
blueprints you will realise that the symbol was drawn by the original 
author in a joky tone. The same as I had put the Microsoft logo there 
(which curiously looks very likely).


(https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)


Alvaro Leal:

Why did you make a video?


Because it's my choice, and you respect that. The same as you respect my 
work, instead of going and destroying it.


Because the next email I'm going to read from you is going to have an 
apology as title.




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Re: I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

C de-Avillez:
> We should *not* announce how to directly enter a bug in LP.

If the system isn't functional reporting directly to Launchpad would be 
the only available method, although I agree that option should be 
presented as the last resort.


I have clarified it:
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs#For_unusable_systems)


Peter Matulis:

I personally don't see that image being effective in achieving your
objective. It's a bit sublime. Also, the sauwastika also seems "off"
somehow.


My brother mentioned the same, although he said it was better having 
that than nothing. He said it was a bit hard for him to see the link, 
even when it was there. He also suggested the possibility of making 
something customised.


Perhaps I'm the only person understanding the context of that blueprint, 
as I have seen the rest of them.


Do you feel any of these does it better?
(https://www.google.es/search?tbm=isch=blueprint+of+victory+wikimedia)



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I have written a draft for the Reporting Bugs guide

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Many people has been complaining through the years about not knowing how 
to report bugs in Ubuntu. I have been asking those people why is that, 
and they usually told me that the reporting bugs guide was too long, 
hard to skim, and nobody would be willing to read it.


It wasn't till I putted a video-tutorial on the top of the page when 
people stopped complaining about it. But that's just a dirty work-around 
and shows that the guide doesn't fit well the average user needs.



So for:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs

I have written an improved version:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/es20490446e/Reporting%20bugs


The criteria I have used has been:
- Adequate for the average person (https://goo.gl/GmzLhb)
- Fits 95% of cases, and leaves the rare ones out.
- Easy and straightforward, over correct.
- Removing the already guided steps by applications themselves.
- Removing the procedures only interesting for triagers.
- If something is unclear if it's useful, adding it when it shows to be.


Please have a look at it and tell me if you see something painful 
missing. Thank you.



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I feel Ubuntu is facing doom

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

https://youtu.be/r4DTZ0bJbBY

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Re: ubuntu-docs or gnome-user-docs for Ubuntu 17.10?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Jeremy Bicha:
> I'd like to propose that we replace ubuntu-docs with gnome-user-docs
> in main and only install gnome-user-docs by default.

Since the main purpose of using GNOME is unifying infrastructure, that 
decision seems the obvious one to me.



Jeremy Bicha:
> I'm sure you've heard that Ubuntu will be switching its default
> interface from Unity to GNOME.

I feel the GNOME desktop environment is badly designed. Its approach to 
minimalism is too extreme, and this is said by someone who only owns two 
sets of clothing and a pair of shoes.


Moreover its unstable, it continually breaks things without fixing them. 
It has the culture of accumulating bugs, and saying that's agile 
development.


It isn't agile development. Agile development is just the opposite: 
changing things one by one and testing immediately, so there's as little 
rework as possible.


You are better re-factoring Unity 8 to work on Wayland, and making it 
easy to deploy in any Linux distribution. The root problem isn't that 
the product is bad on itself, but basically that you are cooking your 
own food.


You aren't failing on the technology, but on the basics. Understanding 
that decisions should be versatile, easy to change, platform neutral, 
and long lasting.




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Re: Can average users change bug statuses?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Teo Tei:

Anybody can change the status to Fix Released, but only privileged
users can change it back once it is set to that status.
Which, of course, is idiotic.


https://youtu.be/XCZiUx2u8Wc



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Can average users change bug statuses?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

About (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1569970), 
an user told me this:


Nicolas Merieux:
> Could you change back the bug status to confirmed? (I don't know how
> to do it or, if it's under the affect bar with the status and change
> button, do not have the rights to do so)

The question is, do a Launchpad account have permissions by default to 
change bug statuses to confirmed, or have I been requesting it by mistake?


Thanks.



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Re: Ubuntu 17.04 in the news

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Ian Bruntlett:

The Register has published an article about Ubuntu 17.04.


Thanks for sharing, although 
(https://www.imforza.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/push-vs-pull-marketing.png)




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Re: 17.04: Unity greeter bug

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Alkis Mavridis:

It automatically logs me in when I click the password field.


If you *still have access* to the desktop, please report the bug using 
the ubuntu-bug 
 
tool. *Otherwise* you can file it directly 
 
in Launchpad.


Thank you.

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Re: Chromium Browser versions in Ubuntu 14.04 and Ubuntu 16.04

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Alberto Salvia Novella:

My answer:
https://youtu.be/dh7rZeZGK-Y


I have to correct myself: graphic performance can be noticeably worse in 
Firefox.




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Re: Chromium Browser versions in Ubuntu 14.04 and Ubuntu 16.04

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

K1:

Why aren't chromium browser versions the same in Ubuntu 14.04 and Ubuntu
16.04 like Firefox?


My answer:
https://youtu.be/dh7rZeZGK-Y



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Do you know the right package for this webcam bug report?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1667180

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Re: [Ubuntu-bugcontrol] Application from Vej for Ubuntu Bug Control membership

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

C de-Avillez:

The fact you personally does not use IRC does not make it surplus.


https://youtu.be/bgRgOE95JRA?t=1m6s


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Re: [Ubuntu-bugcontrol] Application from Vej for Ubuntu Bug Control membership

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

C de-Avillez:

The fact you personally does not use IRC does not make it surplus.


https://youtu.be/bgRgOE95JRA?t=1m6s


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Re: Lots of reports about re-installation failures

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Comme Ci Comme Ca:

This has been a problem with both 14.04 and 16.04 LTS re-installs.


It seems it was fixed for a while, but it has now came back.


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Lots of reports about re-installation failures

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

If this is interesting for you, we are having a big amount of 
re-installation failures:


(https://goo.gl/ek9FDJ)


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Re: call for testing: snaps in Trusty

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Leo:

With snaps you can have a stable base system with frequent updates for
every program, without the risk of breaking your machine.


I believe it's the coolest thing since UTF-8 


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Re: Perte de connexion wi-fi après mise en veille-réveil

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

C de-Avillez:

Is it normal behaviour?


Have a look at:
(https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1585863)


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The Theora codec seems not to be working in Xenial

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Please, could you confirm that you aren't experiencing this bug:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/recordmydesktop/+bug/1655189

If you are affected, probably is also worth running the following 
command into a Terminal:

sudo lshw -C display >> gpu.txt

And attaching it to the bug report.

Thank you.


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Re: USB 3 drives and remounting

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Flocculant:

Not sure that flashing bios and all the pain that *could* cause is
something I'm willing to do nor likely to help.


https://youtu.be/lSmcsGmoYTs


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Re: Upgrade was a disaster as usual

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

https://youtu.be/O6H79fQaQLI

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Re: Upgrade was a disaster as usual

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

JMZ:
> I never fully understood why a individual user would use LTS.

There's a good reason for it, which is any software that works is 
warranted to continue working. And that's pretty interesting for both 
the user and the producer.


Most software that is libre is community maintained, without any 
corporation behind it but individuals. Having to check if all that 
software breaks itself every six months proves to be stressful, leading 
many applications in the universe repository intermittently unusable.


Summarising, it's very different that your software breaks because of 
you changing the code than for the code it depends breaking. Where 
applications would benefit from continuous improvement, for the base 
system it's more important to be predictable than to be featured.


This is why snaps were created, for being able to continually upgrade 
applications in LTS while keeping the base system predictable. It's just 
they are been deployed right now.



JMZ:

Teo teo is certainly right that an LTS plan of action has significant
deficits.


Many times there has been a bug, even when it affected a minority of 
people, Teo came here bullshitting this community. Till he even got 
banned from this mailing list and Launchpad, then he created other 
account for continuing.


Let me tell you something, those legit reasons have become an excuse for 
bullshitting. It really doesn't matter if it's Ubuntu or political 
issues, the goal is keeping oneself in that mood.


That said, in eight years using the regular Ubuntu release as my only 
desktop operating system, I have only experience upgrade problems once. 
The same goes for all the people I have installed Ubuntu in their 
computers, they have always been able to upgrade.


Since Teo is experiencing those problems continuously, and mostly when 
upgrading to alpha releases, I'm even considering if he isn't simply 
paid for anti-marketing here as the cyberattacks we have been 
experiencing are. Curiously both started at the same time.



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Re: Upgrade was a disaster as usual

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Teo T.:

I guess my biggest mistake was to choose ubuntu in the first place.


I'm sorry you didn't like it.


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Re: Upgrade was a disaster as usual

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Teo Troll:
> What the f**k am I supposed to do??

https://youtu.be/a-wW7YUDWnY


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Re: Ubuntu 16.04.1 LTS x86_64 - gnome-software always crashing

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Flocculant:

Unless it's an error - in which case I *believe* it just sends those.


https://youtu.be/HwdwuQ_8ZCY


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Re: Copy on Write - Dirty COW Kernel bug

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Ian Bruntlett:

At one stage Software Updater would run and give you details about
updates in a window. I miss that. Is there a configuration setting for that?


If I set security updates to download and install automatically, 
Software Updater will never show up. Instead updates are installed 
silently in the background.


Exceptionally, if the computer hasn't been used for a long time, it 
could happen that Software Updater actually asks me to upgrade. But the 
behaviour seems to be that, if there's a security update, to do all the 
updates in the background.


So as long as you have the computer configured to check for updates 
daily, and security updates to download and install automatically, any 
exploit shall get patched in the next boot.




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Re: 16.10 upgrade screen has some issues

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Flocculant:
> Maybe something to do with upgrade being a 'weekly' test cycle?

Remember that I said I won't be shorting bugs for regular releases as a 
test, and that it was the kind of activity that prevented those kind of 
issues in time.




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Re: Is this a bug?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Fabio Marconi:

Hi, I found this
https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=355672


Chris Hermansen:
> For sure a SEGV signal indicates a program fault is a bug.

Thanks, I have reported it as (https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1629445). 
Hope I haven't driven my ISP too crazy with my calls ;)



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Is this a bug?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

I'm having a problem while navigating on the Internet, and I don't know 
if it's due to my provider or a bug.


The issue is this: while navigating using Chromium or Chrome, from time 
to time all the tabs disconnects from the Internet. On the other hand, 
if I reload the page the connection seems to work fine.


By launching the web browser from the Terminal, just after the tabs 
disconnection, I got the following stack trace:


Received signal 11 SEGV_MAPERR 0078
#0 0x7fdac25b8c5e base::debug::StackTrace::StackTrace()
#1 0x7fdac25b904b 
#2 0x7fdaaae453d0 
#3 0x7fdac1c60239 blink::KURL::~KURL()
#4 0x7fdac1c6024a blink::KURL::~KURL()
#5 0x7fdaa78321ad blink::ScriptSourceCode::~ScriptSourceCode()
#6 0x7fdaa7829d50 
#7 0x7fdac1c782f0 
#8 0x7fdac1c78833 blink::BaseArena::sweepUnsweptPage()
#9 0x7fdac1c788d0 blink::BaseArena::lazySweepWithDeadline()
#10 0x7fdac1c7ed50 blink::ThreadState::performIdleLazySweep()
#11 0x7fdaa4f11561 scheduler::WebSchedulerImpl::runIdleTask()
#12 0x7fdaa4f11a58 
#13 0x7fdaa4f10f97 
#14 0x7fdaa4f10d8f 
#15 0x7fdac25ba879 base::debug::TaskAnnotator::RunTask()
#16 0x7fdaa4f0ac81 scheduler::TaskQueueManager::ProcessTaskFromWorkQueue()
#17 0x7fdaa4f0b274 scheduler::TaskQueueManager::DoWork()
#18 0x7fdaa4f08cd7 
#19 0x7fdac25ba879 base::debug::TaskAnnotator::RunTask()
#20 0x7fdac25dd9f1 base::MessageLoop::RunTask()
#21 0x7fdac25de49d base::MessageLoop::DeferOrRunPendingTask()
#22 0x7fdac25de769 base::MessageLoop::DoWork()
#23 0x7fdac25e01b9 base::MessagePumpDefault::Run()
#24 0x7fdac25fd358 base::RunLoop::Run()
#25 0x7fdac25dc835 base::MessageLoop::Run()
#26 0x7fdabf22b400 
#27 0x7fdabec2d861 
#28 0x7fdabec2ddfd 
#29 0x7fdabec2cff1 content::ContentMain()
#30 0x55bc8c97b92a ChromeMain
#31 0x7fd8b830 __libc_start_main
#32 0x55bc8c97b7d9 _start
  r8:   r9: 32c185e094d0 r10: 32c185da1af0 r11: 
0246
 r12: 3710d4a27f10 r13: 3710d4a3f000 r14: 1630 r15: 
17cc14280380
  di: 0020  si: 3710d4a28b20  bp: 0020  bx: 
0020
  dx: 17cc18bb8000  ax: 7fdaa7829e40  cx: 3710d4a28b00  sp: 
7ffe7207ad20
  ip: 7fdac1c60239 efl: 00010202 cgf: 0033 erf: 
0004

 trp: 000e msk:  cr2: 0078
[end of stack trace]

Does this tell something to you?


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Re: What the "fix released" status really means?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Brian Murray:

No, its not.  The task here, qr-tools (Ubuntu), is for the development
release of Ubuntu.  If the fix is not available in the package in the
archive for that release then it should not be Fix Released.


I have made it clear in (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Bug%20statuses), 
"Fix Released" section. Thanks.


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What the "fix released" status really means?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Is it appropiate to mark a bug as fixed in the Ubuntu package if it's 
only fixed in a ppa or upstream but not in release?


Like (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qr-tools/+bug/1589965).


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Re: I won't be supporting Yakety

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Stephen M. Webb:
> I would argue though that it's better to test, report, and fix bugs
> before they're released and not after, which is what happens if
> you're not using the current dev release.

I will take that into account. Have a nice day.


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Re: Do you know who can edit Launchpad projects?

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Thomas Ward:
> You might want to ask in #launchpad on IRC, or ask it under the
> Questions feature against Launchpad Itself on LP, though, if you
> don't get a definitive response here.

Thanks, I'll do that if I don't get a response.


Dave Morley:
> https://launchpad.net/dosbox this is the dosbox project and the
> details seem to be correct.

Then why the latest package published in that project was on 2012?



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I won't be supporting Yakety

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

This is to warn that I won't be debugging Yakety. The reason is I will 
be sticking with long term releases as a test for a while, as I suspect 
those are better suited for most people.


This is important because I'm who sets importance to most bugs in 
Ubuntu, and that discovers the critical ones early on before release. So 
it could happen that Yakety is more unstable than previous Ubuntu releases.


Good luck, muahaha! (*^0^*)


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Re: Startup Disc Creator

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Nio Wiklund:

I think the bug report should be directed against gparted.


Nio, as you will be able to better describe the bug, can you report it 
yourself?


Just send me the link when the report is ready, and I will triage it for 
you.


Thank you.



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Re: Startup Disc Creator

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Nio Wiklund:
> Are you suggesting to file a bug against gparted?

Ian Bruntlett:
> how many do you want me to create? Both GPartEd and the system in
> general can't access the data on the flash drives.

Well, I thought the bug was with the Startup Disk Creator.

So probably Nio will be able to tell better were this bug goes to. Why 
isn't the flash disc recognised by the file manager?



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Re: Startup Disc Creator

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Ian Bruntlett:
> The flash drive is not being recognised. To quote GPartEd, "Unable to
> detect file system!".
>
> Does anyone else have this problem?

Yes, I have. I thought the device was broken.

Please open a new report about it, and I will confirm and triage it for you.

Thanks 


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Re: [FLAVOURS] QA Flavour Cycle meetup

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Martin Wimpress:
> I'm certainly interested in keeping the milestones because it has
> absolutely helped identify issues before the panic of final beta.

How has it helped?

All confirmed reports are tagged with releases names and shorted by 
importance, so that will be even better for identifying where to start 
working on.


The sole purpose of milestones and sprints is to induce a sense of 
urgency, but because those are unrealistic people end ignoring them.




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Re: Hi!

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Tux Ace:

I want to contribute.


Welcome to the team!



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Re: [FLAVOURS] QA Flavour Cycle meetup

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Walter Lapchynski:
> We need to organize together, which we're not doing too well.

If you care about organization, my suggestion would be to put it written 
on a wiki that anyone could see, without digging too much in minor 
points. Make a draft of it and agree on the details later on.


This is because, when people want to contribute, most of the time they 
won't be asking for information. But looking if it is already there, 
then decide if to help.


Also realize how much time is usually spent in conversations than lead 
to very small actions. Better than that is to start making something and 
seek for agreement latter on, having some prototype on where to talk on.




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Re: #1543046 wrongly marked as fixed for Wily

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Alberto:

If you don't care about helping Ubuntu QA, why are you in this list in
the first place?


Oh men, I obviously should not answer messages like these. As they can 
turn a good day into something worse.


So I'm moving to the happy band, thank you.


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Re: #1543046 wrongly marked as fixed for Wily

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

PHP Fan:

If I were a member of a QA team, I would test it on Trusty.


What is the different between a team member and you on testing the bug?


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Re: Propose to make Steam experience better.

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Pasat Ion:

Can we implement this workaround in Ubuntu for ease of use?


Personally I believe that issues shall be fixed at the root. Otherwise 
problems tend to procreate, as software owners to procrastinate.


Steam has been a clear example of that, as for years Radeon cards have 
only worked with Steam using work arounds. That's because Steam 
libraries haven't been upgraded since 2012, till the point they became 
incompatible with the current Ubuntu drivers.


On the other hand nothing prevents you from opening a bug report about 
it (https://goo.gl/7JMpVw) and to implement the work around. Just expect 
Valve to continue to put more work on your shoulders.



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Re: Why wasn't I notified that I was put on moderation??

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Teo, independently of if you agree or disagree with us, your messages 
are obvious trolling:



Teo Teo privately to Alberto:
> Perhaps to get an idea of how the excellent job that the QA  team has
> been doing is perceived out there - that is, out here.
>
> Wait a moment, did you say that you are actually using it? That's
> surprising. I mean, and it got released!? What does "QA" stand for,
> again?


Personally I want to expend my time only on constructive things.


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Re: Fwd: The grep disaster

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Alberto:

Moreover this particular bug affected only one known person.


My mistake, it affected three people. So probably it would be its 
description needed my latest update.


(https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/grep/+bug/1535458)


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Re: Serious regression makes it almost impossible to watch video on browsers

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

PHP Fan:

There's been no response on this critical regression that has started
happening recently


That's because nobody else confirmed it, so probably it isn't that bad.


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Re: Ubuntu 16.04, Xubuntu 16.04, Kubuntu 16.04 dedimedo.com reviews

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Warren:
> http://dedoimedo.com/computers/ubuntu-xerus.html
> http://dedoimedo.com/computers/xubuntu-xenial-xerus.html
> http://dedoimedo.com/computers/kubuntu-xerus.html

As usual, it's just more self defeating religious begging 


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I will be sticking to the long term releases

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

This is to tell you that, as an experiment, I would be only giving 
priority to bugs for the latest long term Ubuntu release. In contrast of 
doing for the latest regular release, as I have been doing till now.


The importance of this is that setting priorities is actually what tells 
us which bugs render the operating system broken, so it is a critical 
part of its stability.


This is to warn you that I won't be doing that in regular releases, at 
least for a while, what potentially could render those more unstable 
than usual. Currently I am who is setting priorities to most bugs in Ubuntu.


The reason why I am doing this experiment is because I suspect that, 
even when having a constant flow of innovation in applications is good, 
components which other software depend on need a fixed specification for 
a while for the applications to be robust. And this is better served by 
a frequency of change of two years than six months.


(https://business901.com/marketing-kanban/cadence)


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Re: Upgrading to 16.04 can render the system permanently broken

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Teo Teo:

THE F***ING MOUSE, for god's sake.


I found a fix for that:
(http://tinyurl.com/btfk7g)


Teo Teo:
> "De-releasing" 16.04 until it is decently usable should be easy,
> shouldn't it?

Sure:
(http://tinyurl.com/hdsahpf)


Teo Teo:
> Ok so now it's been  two days, and Software Updater is still offering
> the upgrade.

Canonical is just working on it:
(http://tinyurl.com/j7s43q6)


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Re: MOUSE-BUG

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Johana Yañez:
> I have no idea if it is a system bug or just i have to do something
> to the mouse can work.

Since mice work just plugging in them, it sounds like a bug.


Johana Yañez:
> Can u help me with?

Do this:
(https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Reporting_non-crash_hardware_and_desktop_application_bugs)


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The Wine package is so dated

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

I have just reported a bug about the Wine package, and a developer told 
me the package version we are using is very outdated and we shall 
consider upgrading it.


The current version in Ubuntu is 1.6, exactly the same as in 2014-04. 
Where the stable Wine version is 1.8 and the development is 1.9.


Debian unstable is also using 1.8, so it seems Ubuntu is not directly 
syncing the package from Debian.


Any idea why is this?


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Re: Upgrading to 16.04 can render the system permanently broken

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Alberto Salvia Novella:

Do you mean papercuts could be better tracked using a tag?


There is a problem with that. One purpose of the papercuts project is to 
train incomers in quality assurance. And having a separate project for 
that allows people setting bug statuses and importances without needing 
to belong to the Bug Control team, which requires been already skilled 
in triaging.



Flocculant:
> Adding HundredPaperCuts - then that never changing - mucks up our bug
> tracking.

Many times updating those settings is pointless because 
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/One%20Hundred%20Papercuts) already filters 
those bugs.


Moreover if you think that outdated info mucks up the panel, you can 
just update it yourself simply by copying that in the package. As both 
should coincide.



Flocculant:
> My interest here lies in the issue it causes us when it's added as an
> affected project in Launchpad.

Is there any further issue than the project just been listed in the panel?


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Re: Upgrading to 16.04 can render the system permanently broken

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Flocculant:
> Why add HundredPaperCuts in the first place?

Do you mean papercuts could be better tracked using a tag?


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Re: Upgrading to 16.04 can render the system permanently broken

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Flocculant:

Is this why you have never responded to Xubuntu bugs?


Yes, as I informed Pasi Lallinaho.


Flocculant:
> We track bug status - and as the Hundred status never changes this
> causes us problems.

Setting importance is not because the Papercuts project, but for 
debugging Ubuntu itself.


As spoke to Pasi, the reason why you disagree on my setting is because 
you disagree with (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance) in the first 
place. Setting cosmetic bugs as they have high importance, the same as 
if the application did not worked at all.



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Upgrading to 16.04 can render the system permanently broken

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Seems that upgrading from Ubuntu 15.10 to 16.04 right now is very likely 
to permanently broke the entire operating system, due to a unmet 
dependency on gconf.


(https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gconf/+bug/1551623)


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Re: Upgraded from 15.10 to 16.04

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Eric Adler:

Peaches and cream, favorite gateau, Moet and Chandon on ice!


Sounds good :)


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I have asked LibreOffice developers to get rid of some toolbar buttons

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

As you probably have noticed, most buttons in LibreOffice toolbars are 
never or rarely used. So I have asked its developers to keep only those 
buttons that are currently or constantly used as default configuration.


Here is the bug report, in case you want to give some input yourselves:
(https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=99435)

Thanks.


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Re: delete me from your system

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Bob Looter:

Delete me of from your lists.


You can unsubscribe at
(https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality)


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Re: Performance improvements for Dash

[Alberto Salvia Novella]

Ryein Goddard:

Do you have the same problem with terminal windows over a video with
transparency enabled?


Please discuss bugs in reports themselves.


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