Re: Ubuntu default keyboard layouts

[Michael Bauer]

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 06/06/2017 aig 21:43:


The "strange" layout is named "English (UK)" and is the basic layout 
in the gb symbols file. I'd be surprised if that's not the one which 
shows up in the installer as default if you select a UK location for 
the time zone settings. I don't think it has anything to do with which 
language you select.

Basically this one?
http://ascii-table.com/keyboard.php/166
Ok... well, not ok (I don't get it why the Extended versions of en-GB 
and en-US aren't used by default more) but at least I understand why 
it's there now, thanks.




No, that's not what I suggested. Assuming that there doesn't exist any 
special Scottish Gaelic physical keyboards, and since you still want 
to use an already existing layout, it wouldn't make much sense, and I 
have a feeling they wouldn't approve it.


My idea was to add a variant, which would be identical with the layout 
you consider most suitable, but with another name. That way the 
Scottish Gaelic users would get a hint in the installer, even if the 
variant wouldn't be selected by default. However, I can't tell if they 
would accept that either. (They are currently aiming to reduce the 
number of layout options.)
Ok I think we both mean the same thing. While there are no special hard 
keyboards, we could do with a layout based on en-GB Extended that has 
some extras, like the Gaelic ampersand (⁊).


That's about how the installer works. I'm not sure, but my belief is 
that the installer isn't sophisticated enough to do that without 
pretty extensive changes. Again: The keyboard layout it suggests 
depends on the time zone location, not the selected display language.
Ok, so it's a bit suck-it-and-see, but it's not inconceivable that a 
layout specifically for gd-GB should get bumped up in the list if 
someone switches the UI to gd-GB.


Thanks for all the explanations, finally get the feeling we might get 
somewhere with the keyboard issue on Linux :)


Michael


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Ubuntu default keyboard layouts

[Michael Bauer]

Re-naming the thread, sorry for the hijack.

I wasn't aware that the order of keyboards is not locale dependent but 
general. My assumption was that the strange IBM 166 layout only appeared 
because I'd set the locale of my Ubuntu to gd-GB. I don't think IBM 166 
makes an appearance if I do a clean install of en-GB or en-US. I had a 
look but I've already set mine to en-GB Extended so I'm not sure what 
the default is that comes up for en-US or en-GB.


I'm not averse to taking, basically, en-GB and submitting it under a 
different name... that would have been the helpful thing to point out by 
Sergey. So is this what you were suggesting? Rather than trying to 
change the order of current keyboards, to create a "new one" (however 
much based on an existing locale) and submit it? The bit I'm still hazy 
about is how to make sure that this ends up being the default keyboard 
when someone switches their installation from en-US to gd-GB. Who 
controls that default spot?


Michael

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 06/06/2017 aig 18:10:
I think that has nothing to do with poor responsiveness or rudeness. 
The order of the entries in the gb symbols file isn't what's 
controlling the order in which the entries appear in the installer or 
in Text Entry. (And even if it did, changing the gb file to fit 
Scottish Gaelic users at the expense of English speaking users 
wouldn't make sense.)


Creating a variant with "Scottish Gaelic" in the name, and which loads 
the most suitable variant for Scottish Gaelic users, might be a step 
in the right direction.


OTOH, that might lead to a similar reaction as I got when adding a 
layout for a minority language in Sweden, i.e. put away to "extras".


https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98177

And if so, the additional variant wouldn't make things easier...




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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Michael Bauer]

That, sadly was not our experience. I filed a bug in 2013 and the 
rudeness aside, we were pointed back at Ubuntu.


https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64478

Michael

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 06/06/2017 aig 17:26:

On 2017-06-06 17:55, Michael Bauer wrote:

does anyone actually know who is responsible for keyboard layouts in
the world of Linux distros?


This is the upstream git repository:

https://cgit.freedesktop.org/xkeyboard-config/

Bugs with suggested changes can be filed here:

https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?product=xkeyboard-config

The maintainers are currently responding quickly if there is a good 
patch attached to the bug report. This is the latest bug I filed there 
myself:


https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=100959




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Re: New translation for Ubuntu

[Michael Bauer]

Since this came up, does anyone actually know who is responsible for 
keyboard layouts in the world of Linux distros? I'm asking because while 
I can no longer recall the details, we spent several years trying to 
figure out where the (less-than-ideal) default keyboard layout for gd-GB 
was coming from - and I think in the end we just gave up as there did 
not seem to be a place where you could file a bug and get it fixed.


So where would you go to commit a layout these days and/or set the 
default for a locale?


Michael

Sgrìobh Danilo Šegan na leanas 06/06/2017 aig 16:03:

  - keyboard layout so you can enter the translations more efficiently



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Missing locales on Ubuntu Mobile fixed

[Michael Bauer]

Just updated my phone, the missing locales (Cymraeg and Brezhoneg in 
particular) are now available as UI languages.


Many thanks to all who helped fix this bug!

As there's always something, I've also filed a bug for the locales which 
are showing ISO codes instead of language names in the locales list

https://bugs.launchpad.net/langpack-o-matic/+bug/1615374

Michael

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Re: 1. Call for testing: Xenial langpack updates I

[Michael Bauer]

I've added you. You probably have to apply for Wiki editor rights, I 
think a generic account is no longer a Wiki editor account automatically.


Michael

Sgrìobh Marcin Xc na leanas 30/06/2016 aig 21:48:

Polish also looks ok. For some reason I can't edit the page any more...

Cheers

Marcin


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Re: Call for testing: Xenial langpack updates I

[Michael Bauer]

Added it

Michael

Sgrìobh Richard Somlói na leanas 30/06/2016 aig 12:49:

Hi,

I've just tested the langpack update, and it looks good. Could 
somebody add a row for Hungarian with Passed result? Thanks.


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Re: Call for testing: Xenial langpack updates I

[Michael Bauer]

Someone please add a row for Scottish Gaelic (gd) as Passed.

Cheers

Michael

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 28/06/2016 aig 21:08:

Note: If you are not an Ubuntu Member, you need to be a member of
  to be able to edit the wiki
page. You are encouraged to take this opportunity to join
~ubuntu-wiki-editors, but if you don't get edit access in time, please
post the test result for your language in a message here instead.


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Re: ubuntu-docs SRU / Xenial translation update

[Michael Bauer]

Ah. Thank you very much for explaining that Gunnar, that was very helpful!

Michael


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Re: ubuntu-docs SRU / Xenial translation update

[Michael Bauer]

PS: if there is somewhere where one can see the langpacks produced for 
each release of Ubuntu, I can count myself but I've looked and not found 
anything obvious so far.


Michael

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 19/06/2016 aig 17:56:

It's unclear to me what you are really asking and why. I have nudged the
translators to complete the translations before the coming translation
update. One reason is that a few translatable strings were changed post
release. Why are you assuming that this will affect the number of
released language packs?


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Re: ubuntu-docs SRU / Xenial translation update

[Michael Bauer]

Previously translations were just pulled automatically when the packs 
were built for a new release. The round about May 2014 this new system 
came in where you (at least that is the way it was described to us) must 
test and approve a langpack for each locale, otherwise no test = no release.


Since this is a non-trivial hurdle and since it has been a while, I was 
curious as to how many locales Ubuntu was releasing langpacks for in, 
let's say 2013 and how many in the last release involving langpacks.


The hurdle (and my question) here is not about getting translations done 
but the obligatory testing and how that affects locales.


Michael

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 19/06/2016 aig 17:56:

It's unclear to me what you are really asking and why. I have nudged the
translators to complete the translations before the coming translation
update. One reason is that a few translatable strings were changed post
release. Why are you assuming that this will affect the number of
released language packs?



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Re: ubuntu-docs SRU / Xenial translation update

[Michael Bauer]

I'm curious - how many language packs (i.e. for how many locales) does 
Ubuntu actually still release? I'm curious as to the (potential) drop in 
the number of released language packs before and after this testing step 
was made compulsory.


Michael

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 27/05/2016 aig 00:42:

The deadline for the Xenial update of the ubuntu-docs translations is on
June 16th, i.e. in three weeks. For most other packages, translations
made by June 23rd will be reflected in the first language pack update
for Xenial.



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Re: Vanuatu - Bislama Translation

[Michael Bauer]

Hey it's ok, small languages do get saddled with too many diacritics by 
linguists! So not a bad general comment to make.


Michael

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 12/06/2016 aig 15:56:

Maybe I jumped to conclusions because it's a small language. My
apologies if that's the case.


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Re: Vanuatu - Bislama Translation

[Michael Bauer]

If I remember rightly, it's written in the Latin alphabet with no 
diacritics. So font issues are unlikely to crop up.


Michael

Sgrìobh Gunnar Hjalmarsson na leanas 12/06/2016 aig 14:54:

Possibly an effort to make Ubuntu relevant to Vanuatu users would better
start with making sure that a font (for proper rendering of web
contents) is available, and to figure out a keyboard layout for typing
the language.


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Re: Vanuatu - Bislama Translation

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Robyn,

You should also watch out for projects which are better translated 
elsewhere. For example, if you work on Firefox or LibreOffice on 
Launchpad, nothing will ever happen because there is little coordination 
with such projects which are technically not "Ubuntu" projects.


It may be slightly out of date but there's a list here which is broadly 
speaking still correct: http://www.akerbeltz.org/index.php?title=Launchpad


The installer strings I would park until much later, generally, you only 
see the installer strings once during install, so for most end-users 
they are of little impact but there's a LOT to translate there.


When in doubt, best ask.

Michael

Sgrìobh Robyn Willison na leanas 12/06/2016 aig 09:11:

Hi Translators

I am part of a community organisation that want to donate some 
computers to schools in Vanuatu. These computers are installed with 
Ubuntu and we'd like to have the local language on them. If I can get 
people in Vanuatu to help with translation can someone guide me 
through the process. The local language is Bislama.



Regards

Robyn 


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Re: Music App text

[Michael Bauer]

Weird... was back on reboot. Ah well, computers ;)

Michael

Sgrìobh Alan Pope na leanas 15/04/2016 aig 16:00:

Hiya,

We've made a few changes to some of the text in the Ubuntu Phone the
Music app. If you have some time could you please look over the
outstanding translations on launchpad so we can upload a new version
to the store next week.

Many thanks everyone!

https://translations.launchpad.net/music-app

Cheers,



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Re: Music App text

[Michael Bauer]

It's a maximised window on a 19" monitor so no, it's not my browser 
windows size and as I said, it appears properly on all other screens. If 
I go forward a page, the button is there. If I go back a page, the 
button is there. But neither

https://translations.launchpad.net/music-app/refactor/+pots/com.ubuntu.music/gd/+translate?show=untranslated
nor
https://translations.launchpad.net/music-app/refactor/+pots/com.ubuntu.music/gd/+translate?field.alternative_language=_language-empty-marker=1=all=backwards=30=20
will show the Save button


M

Sgrìobh Victor Thompson na leanas 15/04/2016 aig 17:31:
Maybe your browser window is too small? Do you see a save button if 
you scroll to the right (bottom right)?


Victor


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Re: Finding a Touch string

[Michael Bauer]

Hi David

Thanks - though isn't there some way to make that more user friendly 
within the Launchpad web interface? That's a whole lot of command line 
to find a translation and fix it.


M

Sgrìobh David Planella na leanas 11/03/2016 aig 06:43:

Hi,

You can use 'translations-search' from the translations-tools package, 
which will search for all occurrences of a string and will tell you 
which template in Launchpad they belong to:

$ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-translations-coordinators/ppa
$ sudo apt-get update
$ sudo apt-get install ubuntu-l10n-tools
Then to run it:
$ translations-search "Brightness;soileireachd"
Full details:
https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations-coordinators/msg01813.html

The caveat here is that to install it on a phone, you'll either need to

- Set the phone to write mode - http://askubuntu.com/a/380259, or 
alternatively

- Create a chroot in your phone - http://askubuntu.com/a/623311

Cheers,
David.


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Re: Following update, translation coverage still patchy

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Victor,

Thanks for that. Could you send the link so I can put myself on the cc?

Also, by changing the locale code on
http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=language-pack-touch-gd
to br cy (locales which should have made to cutoff according to 
http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/vivid) it would seem that 
building of langpacks for these two locales was never triggered.


I'm sure, given the recent discussions, Breton and Welsh would 
appreciate if you could file a bug go get those packs building too?


Cheers

Michael

Sgrìobh Víctor R. Ruiz na leanas 27/02/2016 aig 13:21:

   Hi:

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 12:41 PM, Michael Bauer <f...@akerbeltz.org> wrote:

Does this mean translations take more than what, 5 months to filter through
to devices not running some form of nightly build?

   Thanks for pointing this out. For some reason, the language pack for
Gaelic is quite old. I am opening a bug report.

ii  language-pack-touch-fr
1:15.04+20160120  all
Ubuntu Touch translations for language French
ii  language-pack-touch-gd
14.10+20140610.3  all
Ubuntu Touch translations for language Gaelic; Scottish Gaelic

   Greetings,



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Finding a Touch string

[Michael Bauer]

Other question. Does anyone have a really good way of finding a Touch 
string if you want to fix one?


The Search field at the bottom of 
https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/xenial/+lang/gd is pretty 
basic and gives me a load of results from non-Touch modules. It's not 
always easy to tell which module a given string is in and even if, that 
results in a whole lot of navigating around if you want to fix an 
inconsistency that occurs across various modules.


Case in point, Brightness on my phone shows up as 
"Brightness;soilleireachd" (assuming the comment of the string said it 
was a search tag string and it isn't) but I can't for the life of me 
find it.


There probably is such a search function but I just don't know of it :)

Michael

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Following update, translation coverage still patchy

[Michael Bauer]

Decided to wait for an update, just in case. So last night I updated to 
15.04 (OTA-9.1) on my Aquaris E4.5. Apart from some FP (at least they 
look like FP), 15.4 should be fully localized 
(http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/vivid/gd).


Just one example, the Settings in the default browser give me
Co-roinn
Comharran-lìn
Eachdraidh
Find in page
Downloads
Private Mode
Settings

But all these, for example Private Mode, had been localized as of Sept 
2015 (http://bit.ly/1RuYHTS).


Does this mean translations take more than what, 5 months to filter 
through to devices not running some form of nightly build?


Cheers,

Michael

PS don't get me wrong, it's a really cool phone & OS, just puzzled by 
the patch translation coverage!


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Re: Ubuntu phones and l10n

[Michael Bauer]

Thanks Victor.

In which case (if I'm reading this 
https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/image-channels/ 
right), my device should be on a 6 week update cycle. In which case 
there are many more translations missing in the updates than there 
should be. Out translations weren't at 100% but in the high 90s and I'm 
not getting a high 90s localized experience (not talking about things 
like non-system apps like Facebook).


What module would I file I bug under for missing localized strings?

Michael

Sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com na leanas 06/02/2016 
aig 12:00:

On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 6:03 PM, Michael Bauer<f...@akerbeltz.org>  wrote:

>- how often are translations pushed to the physical devices? Each minor
>updates with new locales on each major, like Ubuntu Desktop? Just trying to
>plan ahead - we have a number of issues (truncs above all) to fix and would
>be good to know how often they land in updates

   In the rc-proposed channel there is an update every week. In stable,
each OTA come with fresh an updated translations.

   Greetings,


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Re: Ubuntu phones and l10n

[Michael Bauer]

Hi folks,

Ok, looking at my bright shiny brand-new Aquaris E4. After the recent 
news on Mozilla OS, very refreshing to see Gaelic appear on the screen. 
A couple of questions though, there's a few odd things which I think are 
of interest to folks in general.


- the selection of available locales is somewhat weird. I mean, I'm 
chufffed but apart from the usual big boys, there is Basque, Catalan, 
Galician (unsurprising I guess since it's a Spanish manufacturer), Ug 
(guessing Uyghur, it seems to show ISO codes for some locales), Occitan, 
Asturian and Scottish Gaelic. What's weird is that Occitan is at 25% 
completion or thereabouts but many of the hight up locales (Amharic, 
Breton, Welsh) are not there. It's possible I guess that they were not 
always as fully localized as they are right now but Occitan does seem an 
odd one to be included over Welsh and Breton. Which is great for Occitan 
- I don't want them out at all, just trying to understand the process.


- how often are translations pushed to the physical devices? Each minor 
updates with new locales on each major, like Ubuntu Desktop? Just trying 
to plan ahead - we have a number of issues (truncs above all) to fix and 
would be good to know how often they land in updates


But pretty neat, otherwise (mind you, the instructions for running 
Whatsapp look nightmarish!) - get the feeling this is a phone which we 
should be able to recommend to Gaelic speakers in the near future! Big 
thank you to all the devs!!


Michael


Sgrìobh marcoslans na leanas 21/01/2016 aig 22:12:

Hi

Think my bq ubuntu comes with all locales with some level of completion.

Rgs




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Re: Ubuntu phones and l10n

[Michael Bauer]

Yay :) Many thanks David.

I would help but I still can't program for toffee :(

Michael

Sgrìobh David Planella na leanas 29/01/2016 aig 18:22:
Actually, the fix was easier than I expected and the stats are back 
online:


http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats

I also took the opportunity to add some more projects to the list, 
such as the default scopes.


Cheers,
David.


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Re: Ubuntu phones and l10n

[Michael Bauer]

Interesting question, we don't have a handset yet but marcoslans 
confirmed the other day that his BQ 4.5 Ubuntu Edition had Gaelic (which 
was probably around 95% before I had another go last week) is included 
but not Breton which is at 91%?


Knowing the cutoff and/or procedure would be good - we should put it on 
the Wiki, it would give incentive :)


Michael

Sgrìobh Owen Llywelyn na leanas 29/01/2016 aig 18:40:
This list shows Welsh as translated 66%. What % is required to make it 
available for users?


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Re: Ubuntu phones and l10n

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Marco,

Does that include Gaelic (Scottish Gaelic/Gàidhlig/gd) and Breton 
(Brezhoneg/br)? The reason I'm asking is that I was talking to a Breton 
localizer and they said Breton wasn't showing on their test device. I 
need to find out what model they're on.


I just want to make sure because the price is rather steep for a testing 
device - even more so if I found out our locale isn't on it.


Unfortunately one of the great marketing opps for Ubuntu phones isn't 
mentioned in the specs - the locales available. At the moment, if Ubuntu 
Phone does offer all the locales, that would make it one of the only 2 
(ish, depending on how you count Mozilla OS) mobile OS available in lots 
of locales which you don't get elsewhere.


Do we have a list of shipped locales somewhere?

Michael

Sgrìobh marcoslans na leanas 21/01/2016 aig 22:12:

Hi

Think my bq ubuntu comes with all locales with some level of completion.

Rgs



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Ubuntu phones and l10n

[Michael Bauer]

Hiya

How are the Ubuntu phones (e.g. Aquaris E5 HD Ubuntu Edition) as regards 
l10n? Do they come with all locales who have a reasonable completion of 
the required files? Or do they ship with just the usual suspects? Anyone 
know?


Cheers

Michael

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Re: Coocoo Curucú?

[Michael Bauer]

Sgrìobh David Planella na leanas 03/03/2015 aig 11:37:

Hi all,

After the feedback from translators, I've decided to take it out from 
the list of phone packages to translate [1] for those reasons, in 
particular for the bias that brings to the stats. In any case, it's 
still translatable in Launchpad as usual [2], and we're discussing 
ways to make contributions easier with the curucu developers.

Thanks for the explanation David!


Another thing that I've seen mentioned on the list is the fact that 
ubuntu-calculator-app seems to be frozen at 7 strings to do, which is 
not the case for most languages. I need to look in more detail into 
this, but my hunch is that polib, which I use to read the stats from 
po files, is getting a bit confused, something that I've already hit 
in the past. In any case, remember that the stats dashboard is a 
project everyone can contribute to [3], so if you've got python or 
Django skills and see a bug or need improvements, feel free to dive 
into it!
And for that. There seem to be a few others (at least in gd) which are 
misreporting missing strings as well but not many files so relatively 
easy to work around. Just thought I'd let you know.


Cheers

Michael
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Re: Coocoo Curucú?

[Michael Bauer]

Sgrìobh Yuri Chornoivan na leanas 28/02/2015 aig 09:49:

Personally, I'm tired of guessing and will leave such things untranslated

Yes I was tending towards that too, having spent half an hour on it

Sgrìobh Tom Davies na leanas 28/02/2015 aig 15:25:

Hi :)
So it's some sort of game or something based on a 1956 movie and only 
available through Ubuntu One which has closed down?

Errr... ok


I think if the devs for it make it available through the software 
centre or/and OpenSource it then maybe revisit it but for now ignore 
and move on?


Is it something that needs to be done to get translations 100% 
completed?  If so can it be taken off the list?

Regards from
Tom :)
Well the only reason I even looked at it was because it's on David's 
to-do page http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/vivid/gd (which seems 
to be frozen by the way, I completed the other bits middle of last week).


Overally I appreciate the ability to localize some games for Ubuntu 
Mobile but that should be an optional feature and not on the to-do list.


Michael


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Re: Strange upgrade behaviour

[Michael Bauer]

Sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com na leanas 28/11/2014 
aig 11:59:

Most users prefer that you can set the display language once and that
it's effective all over the desktop.
Really? Care to quote your source on these figures? I think (on both 
sides of the argument) we make assumptions about user behaviour without 
bothering to ever ask the user. This is very much reminiscent of 
councillors in Scotland arguing that bilingual road signs put off 
tourists when *actual* research with tourists show that they like them 
because it adds to the 'sense of place'.

Doing it per app instead is an idea
that would be hard to sell.
Again, really? This has been a common feature for many years. Take 
Firefox, you pick a locale, you download it. VLC - picks the OS locale 
but allows you to change. Virtually all programs that had different 
languages on offer that I grew up with allowed you somehow to change the 
UI language if you didn't want it for some reason. This force-locale 
nonsense has only come in in the last decade or so. To anyone whose 
preferred language is not one of the big 20, the hard sell is that they 
*cannot* pick their own choice. And just because the big 20 account for 
a large percentage of official state languages, that does not make them 
the preferred language of the majority of people.

As always there are workarounds, though. While I usually have Swedish as
the selected display language in Language Support, I prefer English in
Thunderbird and gnome-terminal. It's accomplished with these two  files:

$ cat ~/bin/thunderbird
#!/bin/sh
export LANG=en_US.UTF-8
exec /usr/bin/thunderbird $@

$ cat ~/bin/gnome-terminal
#!/bin/sh
export LANGUAGE=en_US
exec /usr/bin/gnome-terminal $@
Sweet. You know, this kind of solution is largely the reason why 
anything Linux based is hard to sell to the 'majority'.


Michael


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Re: Call for translations: Gmail scope

[Michael Bauer]

You mean this one?
In threads;Individually;Individually with snippets;Ann an snàithean;fa 
leth;gach fear; gach tè;bloighean 
That's deliberate. We had reports that Gaelic users couldn't find stuff 
and it turns out most assume you have to search in English. Plus with a 
language that inflects a lot and does not have fixed technical 
terminology yet (for example the Updater is techncially Ùraichear but 
folk are just as likely to put in ùraich, ùrachadh, nuadhaich, 
nuadhachadh, ath-nuadhaich etc etc etc) the most workable solution we 
found is to just add the translations but to keep the English in there too.


Michael

Sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com na leanas 27/11/2014 
aig 12:00:

I did notice one problem (in the Gaelic translation, though it may be
in others):  The string In threads;Individually;Individually with
snippets, from a settings file, needs to have each component
translated separately and then joined with semicolons.  (This is a
silly way to handle things, I agree.)  I think desktop files sometimes
use this format for a list of synonyms.  If you could double check your
translations of this string, I'd greatly appreciate it.


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Re: Call for translations: Gmail scope

[Michael Bauer]

Ah I completely misread your original post, sorry. Fixed.

Perhaps a comment should be added to the file that this is a list of 
settings and must contain only 3 translations separate with ; because 
usually these lists are search terms in Launchpad.


Michael

Sgrìobh Robert Schroll na leanas 27/11/2014 aig 13:52:


Let me reiterate, this is not a list of search terms from a desktop 
file.  It is a list of options for a settings file.  There need to be 
three strings, not eight.  I'm not actually sure what will happen with 
the wrong number of strings in translation.  At best, only the first 
three will be displayed.  At worst, you'll get eight options with the 
last six acting identically.  Neither is what you want.


Thanks,
Robert



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Re: Strange upgrade behaviour (Gunnar Hjalmarsson)

[Michael Bauer]

I think the scope of this list is narrowed to translations rather than
everything l10n, but let's disregard that in this case and keep talking.
Sadly there is no 'everything l10n list' I'm aware of... l10n somehow 
seems to be a bit of an unwanted child.

Ok. Personally I wouldn't call it force, since it's respective
application that it's designed to use a display language in accordance
with the current locale.
I didn't give it that name. It's still 'force' because the user cannot 
pick and choose easily on an application by application basis about 
which UI language they want. Someone might want Filezilla in a different 
language because the translation is real bad or maybe Firefox in a 
different language because they want to practice. We've had this 
discussion before I think.



Usually both of us consider shipping a locale when it is reasonably
complete.

Thinking of Skype?
Well, those were Björn's words, not mine. The point was that Gaelic 
LibreOffice had completed its translation in 2010. After much tearing of 
hair I found out that LO had been restricted to 12 locales on Ubuntu in 
January this year and it wasn't until a month or so ago that we finally 
got a fix.

If I understand it correctly, you say that there is a more updated gd
translation available than what's currently shipped with the
libreoffice-l10n-gd package. If that's the case, I would suggest that
you file a bug against the libreoffice-l10n package.
No. I was getting frustrated that there seems to be a fairly arcane and 
undocumented process through which LO locales end up on Ubuntu ... via 
Debian. It was never a LO bug. The critical gateway was, frustratingly, 
Debian...

I have also been surprised a few times when opening Language Support and
noticing that Firefox translations were suddenly missing, so apparently
they were silently uninstalled at some point. Can't tell when or why.

The update of missing language support packages, which is carried out
when you open the Language Support GUI, can be accomplished with this
terminal command:

sudo apt-get install $(check-language-support)
Yes but if we want to have any chances of 'selling' Ubuntu to normal 
users, we should try to avoid steps like that at all cost.

I have played with the thought to propose that something along those
lines is carried out via Software Updater. Suspect that such a change
wouldn't be completely uncontroversial, though.

Echoing GunChleoc here, can't see that either

I only want to use British English. Why am I prompted to install
language support packages for South Africa?

The explanation is that that's how the language pack system is designed
currently. Either you have English - all English - installed or not. But
some users are (for to me unknown reasons) very picky about installing
only what they need.
So because some multi-country locales are lazy about the ranking of 
their preferred locales, all locales which don't (probably most which 
aren't English) have to settle for a headache? An odd argument (I know 
it's not your POV).


Michael


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Re: Strange upgrade behaviour

[Michael Bauer]

Sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com na leanas 22/11/2014 
aig 12:00:
Hi Michael, Trying to understand the nature of the problem. Even if it 
doesn't sound like a translation matter, it would be good if you could 
clarify a few things.
Well, l10n goes a bit further to my mind than just translation but sure, 
I'll clarify :)

What is force-locale?
The bit that looks at your system locale settings and forces other 
applications which are not part of the system to display the UI in that 
locale. On Ubuntu, that would be the settings under Language Support 
forcing non-Ubuntu stuff like Firefox or GIMP to come up in the 
specified language. In other words, the bit that removes control over 
the UI language from the user, by and large.

Which LibreOffice bug?

This one:


Ubuntu essentially ships the same l10n as debian does:

  
http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=pkg-openoffice/libreoffice.git;a=blob;f=rules;h=75ccdc460060b46130c47d1fe8439a3eb02e64bc;hb=be19aeb50a1186ed24b01537453a3beb0d917f1d#l795

Usually both of us consider shipping a locale when it is reasonably complete.
As gd seems reasonably complete:

  https://translations.documentfoundation.org/gd/

we might add it to the shipped locales.



Yes, Language Support is the tool in Ubuntu to make sure that all
language support packages for the languages you selected to install are
available. That's not handled via package dependencies. The Software
Updater is involved for upgrading already installed language support
packages, but not to identify missing ditto.

Bit of a gap I'd say, no? But see below.

It probably means that you at some point changed the language in
LibreOffice to something else but Default, i.e. the current locale.
Otherwise also LibreOffice would have automatically been displayed in
the language you set in Language Support.
I didn't - it's a bit of a moot point over what happened. My 
recollection is that LO *was* in Gaelic and then suddenly wasn't anymore 
but Björn maintains it was never part of the ppa until they added it to 
Debian earlier this year. It's possible that I manually pulled some 
language packs for Gaelic at some point.

Which constant reverting of programs to English? Are you saying that
language support packages are silently uninstalled often?
Yes, frequently. It was too quick to screenshot but I *saw* the 
uninstaller uninstalling the gd langpacks for Firefox and it's not the 
first time it has done this, over the last 3 years it has happened to me 
at least 3 times and GunChleoc, the other Gaelic localizer, has also had 
this problem (she actually filed a bug I just heard 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox/+bug/1395273). It may 
do it to other packages too but Firefox is usually the first one I 
notice it with.


Michael

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Strange upgrade behaviour

[Michael Bauer]

Hiya

Had yer another run in with that bit of hellspawn that is force-locale. 
I upgraded to the latest version of Ubuntu to see if the LibreOffice bug 
had finally been fixed - to first find that suddenly Firefox had 
reverted to English. Even though Gaelic is right at the top of the 
locales list in my Ubuntu settings. Even though I had run the Software 
Updater several times to make sure I wasn't missing any packets, when I 
went to Language Support I suddenly get a popup telling me that I'm 
missing language packs. After telling the system to fetch them, Firefox 
was back in Gaelic. LibreOffice wasn't. I had to manually go into the LO 
settings and set them.


So on the bright side, LO is now available in Gaelic but this constant 
reverting of programs to English is really beginning to bug me. Either 
force-locale forces the locale or it doesn't but at least on my system 
it seems to do what it feels like. Has anyone else observed this?


Michael

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Re: Chechen language locale file created

[Michael Bauer]

It would also be good to submit this to CLDR (the unicode consortium) 
because from there it will filter through to various downstream projects 
and also, the new editing tool (the call it the Survey Tool) is much 
less error-prone than editing the xml directly

http://cldr.unicode.org/index/survey-tool/accounts

Michael

15/09/2014 13:00, sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:

  Hello!
Chechen language locale file 
created?https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17192
Add this file in all supported releases of ubuntu please.


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Re: Utopic plurals

[Michael Bauer]

I haven't filed a bug... partly because I wasn't aware that that's a 
bug-level issue, partly because my experience with bugs on Launchpad 
ain't that great but mostly because I can never remember where to file a 
bug. You'd think this

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
was the obvious place but from there
Report a bug
takes you to this place
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
and from there, all I can find are seemingly recursive links but nowhere 
to actually file a bug...


Eventually found it, would love to paste the link but Launchpad 
catapults you somewhere after reporting but no idea where in relation to 
the bug you just reported.


Bah...

Michael

18/08/2014 03:02, sgrìobh David Planella:

Hi Michael,

Thanks for pointing that out. You might have done this, but the best 
bet is to file a bug against the project.


I'm CC'ing Facundo Batista, one of the remote scopes developers who 
might be able to help us.


@Facundo, there are a few strings in the remote scopes code that would 
benefit from using plural forms. Do you think you might be able to 
look into these?


Thanks!

Cheers,
David.



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Re: Utopic plurals

[Michael Bauer]

Ask,

That takes me exactly to where I was - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu 
with no obvious place to report


Michael

19/08/2014 00:39, sgrìobh Ask Hjorth Larsen:

Hi Michael

Generally if you are on the translations page, click 'Bugs' on the top
(there are Overview, Code, Bugs, Blueprints, Translations, Answers).
That should take you to the appropriate bug page.

Best regards
Ask




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Re: Utopic plurals

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Ask,

They are in 'Remote Scopes'
Ubuntu Rest ScopesSeries trunkTranslationsTemplate “ubuntu-rest-scopes”

Michael

13/08/2014 13:41, sgrìobh Ask Hjorth Larsen:

Hi

Could you send a link to the specific translation template please?

Best regards
Ask


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Utopic plurals

[Michael Bauer]

Hi

Could someone give the developers in question a reminder about proper 
plural formatting? Had a whole batch in the current strings which just 
use English plurals:


%d results
Located in src/scopes/ebay.py:521
(missed copying the singular string name of this one)

(1 result)
Located in src/scopes/sevendigital.py:512

({} results)
Located in src/scopes/sevendigital.py:515

Cheers :)

Michael

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Re: Timeouts when trying to translate on Launchpad

[Michael Bauer]

Yep, get it a lot too. Especially annoying when the back button does not 
bring up your translations again. I actually just lost a whole page 
worth 2 minutes ago.


Michael

08/08/2014 12:08, sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:

Hi All,

When trying to translate on Launchpad, I get quite often Timeout errors.
That is, when I am submitting a translation and click to get the next 10
message,
the page give the Timeout error. I need to refresh several times in order
to proceed to the next set of messages.

I have tried with both Firefox and Chrome.
Does anyone else exhibit this issue?
I am translating for Greek (in case there is some server-side extra
processing for some languages).

Simos



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Re: Timeouts when trying to translate on Launchpad

[Michael Bauer]

Ask

Had about a dozen timeouts in a row but when it eventually came back, 
yes, on this occasion the translations had gone through. But I have 
indeed lost translations this way and I imagine many people also do if 
they don't try the back button.


Michael

08/08/2014 12:28, sgrìobh Ask Hjorth Larsen:

Hi Michael

Are you sure they were lost?  Usually they get submitted correctly,
and it is the next page which refuses to load.  So far I have not lost
a page of translations due to the usual timeout error.

Best regards
Ask


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Re: Maliit and Ubuntu Phone/Touch

[Michael Bauer]

FYI, this is the answer from the phone team:

We are using maliit, the relevant project is now called 
ubuntu-keyboard since as you observed upstream somewhat abandoned the 
project..


Please create a bug there and the engineer can integrate the languages.

Cheers
Pat

https://launchpad..net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-keyboard 
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-keyboard



26/05/2014 15:44, sgrìobh David Planella:

Hi Michael,

I'm not very familiar with Maliit, but you might want to ask the 
experts on the ubuntu-phone mailing list.


Cheers,
David.


On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Michael Bauer f...@akerbeltz.org 
mailto:f...@akerbeltz.org wrote:


Hiya

Having just brought the Phone/Touch strings up to date, I had a
snoop around to check out progress of the project overall and came
across a mention of Maliit being the input 'app' for these
devices. Since we already have the data for Gaelic/Irish/Manx, I
thought it might be a good idea to get them committed sooner
rather than later but first the Maliit site brings up a security
warning in Firefox and the site looks rather dead (no activity
dated 2014).

Is Maliit still the default IM or is there a different
module/project handling this aspect now that I should be talking to?

Cheers,

Michael



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Maliit and Ubuntu Phone/Touch

[Michael Bauer]

Hiya

Having just brought the Phone/Touch strings up to date, I had a snoop 
around to check out progress of the project overall and came across a 
mention of Maliit being the input 'app' for these devices. Since we 
already have the data for Gaelic/Irish/Manx, I thought it might be a 
good idea to get them committed sooner rather than later but first the 
Maliit site brings up a security warning in Firefox and the site looks 
rather dead (no activity dated 2014).


Is Maliit still the default IM or is there a different module/project 
handling this aspect now that I should be talking to?


Cheers,

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Shorts?

[Michael Bauer]

I've got this string here:
Located in ../shorts-app.qml:332 
../.build/com.ubuntu.shorts_shorts.desktop.in:1

which just reads
Shorts

Anyone know what that is supposed to mean? Shortcuts?

Michael
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Re: Shorts?

[Michael Bauer]

Ah slaps forehead thank you :)

Michael

19/05/2014 11:01, sgrìobh Yuri Chornoivan:

Hi,

It's just a name for Ubuntu RSS reader.

http://design.canonical.com/2013/05/shorts-rss-reader-app/

Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Yuri 


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Re: ubuntu-translators Digest, Vol 116, Issue 8

[Michael Bauer]

Nice. How often does it refresh?

Michael


16/05/2014 13:00, sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:

On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 8:47 AM, David Planella
david.plane...@ubuntu.com  wrote:

Hi all,

I've put together a list of translatable packages for the phone, along with
some stats, to ensure all translation teams have good visibility of what
constitutes the body of translations on devices:

http://projects.davidplanella.org/stats/utopic



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Re: Skype

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Yaron

18/03/2014 14:00, sgrìobh Yaron Shahrabani:

Hey,
I don't understand what does programming have to do with my reported bug?
Have you tried reading it?
Yes I've read it. Several times. I don't know what a JSON is and what 
Login.cab has to do with it.


I uploaded the file I prepared (ts) to Transifex.
I saw that, thanks. If necessary I can generate the qm file from that. 
It seems Ubuntu needs both. But it's easy, just running $ lrelease does 
the trick

Now all we have missing the the Windows translation.
No, you don't have to deal with that, Hebrew is already a language 
Microsoft ships with the default installer which also means they handle 
their own translation.
I have the JS translation file from Skype, is there anyone in the 
Skype lang crew that knows what to do with the official files 
extracted from Skype?
Again not sure what the JS file is about. The easiest way of exporting a 
language shipped by default is to select it as UI, go to Tools  Change 
Language  Edit and then Save As, which gives you the .lang file for 
that language


I can try and contact Dimitris Glezos and see what we can do to import 
the file (JSON if I understand correctly).
Well, since you already have the ts file and since Windows handles the 
lang file, I don't think we need to import anything else.


Which brings me to Andres post


Having it automatically install together with skype would depend on
convincing either the language-pack team or who ever is responsible for
packaging skype for the partner archive.

-Anders
Is there anyone on this list from either team? The sudo install routine 
looks like it should work but you don't save users an awful lot of 
trouble, no? Someone who can handle those 3 command lines is by default 
also savy enough to grab the files of SourceForge and do it that way.


Michael


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Skype

[Michael Bauer]

Question. We run a community translation project for the lang and ts/qm 
files for Skype (we're not Windows, before anyone asks) over on 
Transifex 
(https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/skype-translation-project/). It 
started off with a focus on smaller, unsupprted languages for Windows 
but since we figured out how to do the files for Linux, a number of 
larger languages have also come onboard, like Greek or Brazilian.


We currently generate the ts/qm files manually and then put them on 
SourceForge 
(https://sourceforge.net/projects/skypeinyourlang/files/Linux/) with 
instructions (there's a moderatly annoying name change you have to 
implement) 
https://sourceforge.net/p/skypeinyourlang/wiki/Installing%20a%20language%20file/ 
about how to do that on Linux.


Is there any interest to somehow bundle these with Ubuntu so people 
don't have to do this themselves? I don't know if Launchpad handles ts 
files and someone would have to fiddle a bit with the integration (in a 
nutshell, the Linux interface will offer you languages not bundled with 
the default package as long as the filename follows a certain pattern, 
see the instructions on the page I linked).


Happy to file a bug but I wanted to gauge interest/feasibility to begin 
with.


Cheers

Michael

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Re: Line breaking

[Michael Bauer]

LOL guys I'm totally confused now. Which is it? The outcome I want is that when 
I get this in Launchpad:

System Settings
Roghainnean an t-siostaim

the result for the user on screen is
Roghainnean
an t-siostaim

or at least

Roghainnean an
t-siostaim

NOT as it currently is:
Roghainnean an t-
siostaim


Either approach suggested to date is fine by me but I'd kind of like to know 
which one works before I go changing a lot, seeing there's only 1 l10n update a 
year, I can't very well experiment ;)

Michael


It should be \x00AD (U+00AD, soft hyphen, shy).

Sources:

Gtk+: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=580275

Qt: http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5.0/qtcore/qtextboundaryfinder.html





A soft hyphon hints that a word can be broaken and a hyphon inserted,
pretty much the opposed of what Michael seams to want here.



You need to insert the actual charector - . If you don't have a keyboard
combination for typing it then save it to a text file for handy use in
the future.




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Re: Scottish Gaelic

[Michael Bauer]

Not entirely - I discovered that if I delete the top language in the 
language settings, it asks me if I want to keep the folder names, so if 
I go gd  en  gd, I get the new ones. Discovered that by accident 
because for some reason, LibreOffice will just not come up in Gaelic on 
my machine.


Michael

18/10/2013 10:20, sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:

Subject: Re: Scottish Gaelic
Message-ID:5260fd3a.2090...@jenbo.dk
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed

Yes the folders are frozen when you create your user. If you create a
new user it should get it's folders with the new names.

-Anders



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Re: Scottish Gaelic

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Tom,

Well, the translator in question has recently deleted his account as 
as far as I can tell, is no longer adding translations. And the problem 
wasn't so much that he was undoing our work, it was that he was 
continually adding new translations. Splitting Gaelic into more than 
one locale is a really bad idea, the divisions are not that bad to begin 
with and with less than 60,000 speakers, maintaining *2* is not going to 
work. So just keeping the one gd locale is the preferred option. And 
apart from Linux Mint, we have done the lion's share of proofreading.


However, having said that, I do think Ubuntu on the whole needs a proper 
process for dealing with such problems. It's bound to happen in other 
locales and it will, in the end, harm the image of the project if there 
is no way of preventing really bad translations from reaching the 
general public (and removing or at least hiding them from the 
suggestions, some strings now in gd have so many bad suggestions 
attached they sometimes run outside the screen...). We all laugh at Coca 
Cola and Co for producing bad translations of advertisements which are 
hilarious in another language - but sometimes in open source projects I 
get the feeling that people are too willing to assume that peer review 
will fix everything.


Michael

18/10/2013 10:57, sgrìobh Tom Davies:

Hi :)
There is a deep division between the team working on the translations 
for Scottish Gaelic and an individual.


I've been worrying about how we can resolve the situation.  Even 
though it is uncomfortable and we would normally leave it to the 
individuals to resolve the situation i think it would be good if there 
was some way we could step in and do something.  Otherwise this 
festering problem is only likely to get worse leaving us with at least 
2 angry scotsmen and even just 1 is dangerous enough.


Could we create a new 'team' and language code and move the 
individual's translations into that?  Then the rest of the team can 
carry on with the good work they do without finding all their work 
undone by the individual?


There are several dialects within the country and deep divisions 
between people from different areas.  Edinburgh vs Glasgae vs the 
isles and even between places even closer together.


So, could we set-up a separate language code and team?
Regards from
Tom :)


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Line breaking

[Michael Bauer]

Different question, now that we have a more or less clean translation, 
we can look into some other stuff too. I've noticed that we have some 
linebreaking issues in menu items, for example System Settings is now:

Roghainnean an t-
siostaim

But in our locale t-siostaim should not be broken across 2 lines. Is there
a) a way of generally preventing t- n- h- in our locale from breaking 
across two lines?
b) a manual way of preventing or forcing a linebreak? Would nonbreaking 
hyphens work? Or should I try something like

Roghainnean anbrt-siostaim

Thanks

Michael

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Re: Line breaking

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Oleg,

The source string has no line break as far as I can tell, I think it 
just break it automatically.


How do I know, while translating, wether I should use \n or br /? I 
don't know of a way of telling from the translation interface if it's 
one or the other.


Michael

18/10/2013 14:23, sgrìobh Oleg Koptev:
I think in general it depends on particular programming language of 
the template you translate.
In most cases \n will break the line, but if you deal with (x)html - 
br / will work.

Try to look into source of System Settings and look for \n in this phrase.

Oleg


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Re: Line breaking

[Michael Bauer]

So should I use \x2011 or #8209; or something else altogether?

Michael


If it uses utf8 or another unicode encoding it should be supported
Mvh Anders


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Re: Scottish Gaelic

[Michael Bauer]

Ah. Well spotted ... installing .10 just now, fingers crossed it was 
just a case of me muddling up version numbers. Thanks for the suggestion!


Michael

17/10/2013 16:28, sgrìobh Dave Walker:

Can you clarify if you mean 13.04, or infact the new release of 13.10?

If it is 13.04, as you stated, this was released in April this year
which is/after/  the translation you linked to was approved.
Therefore, it wouldn't be possible to be in 13.04.

It would be worth checking if it is correct in 13.10, which was released today.


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Re: Scottish Gaelic

[Michael Bauer]

Many thanks for suggesting that Dave - 13.10 is indeed much better. The 
only oddity that springs out straight away are the system folders 
(Pictures, Videos) but perhaps these were maintained because I'm 
upgrading from an existing version, I had a similar thing when switching 
languages on Thunderbird.


Sorry I panicked a bit but this has been such a frustrating episode that 
when I'd upgraded to 13.04 (which I must have gotten mixed up in my head 
with .10) I took one look and went Oh no.


Panic over. Sorry folks :)

Michael

17/10/2013 16:28, sgrìobh Dave Walker:

Can you clarify if you mean 13.04, or infact the new release of 13.10?

If it is 13.04, as you stated, this was released in April this year
which is/after/  the translation you linked to was approved.
Therefore, it wouldn't be possible to be in 13.04.

It would be worth checking if it is correct in 13.10, which was released today.


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Chromium

[Michael Bauer]

I just had one of my periodic checks on various projects which we'd like 
to do and I noticed that there's considerable activiy in the Chromium 
project (https://translations.launchpad.net/chromium-browser)


Last time I asked (back in 2011) I was told the project was unmaintained 
since Fabien left. Is there a new maintainer or is the Chromium thing 
still dormant on Launchpad?


Michael

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The Gaelic saga

[Michael Bauer]

Hi folks,

I just want to make sure we've got all our ducks in a row for the 
October deadline.


We've managed to complete our proofreading bar some small bits we'll 
complete over the next year. Based on our previous discussions, all 
translations which are Approved on the date will just get pulled from 
Launchpad, yes?


We've also managed to get the locale data updated 
(http://lh.2xlibre.net/locale/gd_GB/) - do we need to inform someone 
that has changed or is that process also automatic?


Anything we've missed?

Michael

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checkbox?

[Michael Bauer]

The Checkbox directory has been moved way to the bottom on Launchpad, 
does that mean it's going to fall off the list or will it still be part 
of the next version? Just trying to prioritise our proofreading efforts 
for the October deadline.


Michael


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Re: checkbox?

[Michael Bauer]

Right, so new users are unlikely to look for it since it will be a 
dead-in-the-water tool, so junk translations in checkbox won't really 
affect the users.


Thanks!

Michael

22/09/2013 11:43, sgrìobh Yuri Chornoivan:

Hi,

Ubuntu Friendly is gone [1] and I've asked for the priority to be zeroed.

There should be some discussion during last UDS about a replacement of 
checkbox but there is no information about the results.


In short, there will be checkbox package but it will send data to 
nowhere. ;)


Best regards,
Yuri 



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Re: Translation activities on Launchpad (Deactivated by clementlefebvre)

[Michael Bauer]

Sorry about you getting dragged into this Clement, we had hoped to 
resolve this at a higher level. Which is why I'm cc'ing the Ubuntu list 
in the hope of some admin pitching in.


I will just very briefly point out that claiming to be (or even being) a 
native speaker does not make one a specialist translator and that if 
Alasdair indeed pick up some Gaelic natively (which is of course great), 
his mistakes in the committed translations are so basic (even those he 
says he re-proofread) that one cannot but question the ultimate level of 
Gaelic he acquired, natively or otherwise. In the end what matters is 
not how one achieved fluency and skills in translations but the quality 
of the translations.


As to the timing, yes, I am well aware that there was little activity on 
my behalf early on but that was because we were focussing on high-impact 
projects such as Mozilla, LibreOffice, Adaptxt, VLC etc before moving on 
to operating systems as it is much harder to convince users to shift 
their OS as opposed to a software package or two. That was a strategic 
decision.


I can only re-iterate that I am sorry that you seem to be unwilling to 
contemplate any form of agreement that would ensure the best outcome for 
the end-users in terms of quality. It is purely on that basis that we 
have, reluctantly, decided to take a stronger stance. Which is, 
incidentally, backed up by the other Ubuntu Gaelic admin, GunChleoc - 
except that with a number of projects impacted acress Launchpad and 
potentially elsewhere, we haven't always co-signed our emails purely 
for practical reasons.


is mise le meas,

Michael

16/09/2013 12:24, sgrìobh Clement Lefebvre:

On 15/09/13 22:58, alasdair caimbeul wrote:

Dear clementlefebvre, (with cc to Ubuntu and Launchpad Leadership)

Sorry for the delay in responding in full to your notice, but now please
allow me the courtesy to make a reasoned argument as to why you have
taken an erroneous decision on this occasion and in this case.

I believe a certain Launchpad member has been in contact with you and
misled you, resulting in this misguided conclusion.

After a previous encounter with this Launchpad member while working on
translations for my native language (your new Admin being an adult
learner) on the Ubuntu project, I find his motives highly questionable.

Here is my experience of his Modus Operandi, I started translation work
on Ubuntu back in 2009 and although we were Launchpad members much about
the same time, he had carried out only couple of lines of translation
work on the Ubuntu's Scottish Gaelic project, a team with little or no
activity at that stage except some members practicing their Scots
English dialect (please check with the Ubuntu project as to the veracity
of this). Subsequent to this he managed to have himself appointment an
Administrator for the Gaelic translation of the Ubuntu project (FYI
please note, it was an naming error when you acquiesced to my team Mint
request, you should have used the correct term The Scottish Gaelic Team
and not The Scottish Translation TeamMinor detail  I know). So he
had himself appointed Admin, on the few occasions I contacted him
especially the first time he showed little enthusiasm for the work in
hand so I left it at that, I wasn't expecting to see great numbers take
an interest in Ubuntu in Gaelic and he was more interested in the
Redwood side of things, all of which confirmed the belief I am on my own
here, and in fact he continued to contributed little or nothing at all
to the translation but last year he appointed another fellow learner and
immediately promotes him to Admin (again please check Ubuntu
records for veracity). At this stage I did not voice an opinion, we are
but a tiny community and I wanted to encourage involvement and as a
strong proponent of FSF and the open source ideal and a dictatorship
never appeals.

Let me continue, earlier this summer he contacted me and began to
complain about the quality of the my work on Ubuntu, he asked me to
desist from more translations to the Ubuntu project, this raised many
concerns, but not being the Admin, I knew a had little option but to
depart this 2 member 2 admin team, I was saddened, I had taken the
Ubuntu core Unity Package to 70% complete and all by myself, and having
explained to him on many occasions that my desire was for us complete
this first draft translation then do a thorough Quality Control
Translation Audit on all the packages to promote our Language Version to
at least a Beta testing status, before ever promoting it to a wider
community, I am great believer in Quality Control that is my background.
Now my great fear is having seen his reworking of my first Ubuntu draft
work, all that remains are errors on top of my first draft, and wish now
that I had highlighted this to Launchpad and Ubuntu, what will happen
now is that this will now be promoted and advertised as a completed
version of Ubuntu in my native language and as Quality software fit 

Re: Getting a user barred from a language

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Hannie,

Surely there must be a more efficient way - I mean, what you suggest 
would work but that means that someone would *always* have to keep an 
eye on this user and the moment the translates something rush to get him 
barred from that specific project. We would end up having to 
join/organise loads of team which might not fit our locale's actual 
priorities, just because this user is playing some annoying game.


Michael


Hi Michael,
The membership policy of the team you refer to is Open. You could ask
the owner to change it to Restricted or Moderated. Our team (Dutch) is
Restricted.
Hannie



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Re: Getting a user barred from a language

[Michael Bauer]

Could we have some help from the admins, please? I will beg if 
necessary... I've just checked the activity log for this user 
(https://launchpad.net/~alexd/+karma) and it's just not letting up. 
There *must* be a way.


Is it possible to deactivate an account globally? This user is *really* 
doing more harm than good on a massive scale.


Michael



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Re: Getting a user barred from a language

[Michael Bauer]

Ok, I filed

https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/235624

Fingers crossed

Michael


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Re: Getting a user barred from a language

[Michael Bauer]

Hiya


I can see you are quite desperate. If you want help from LP admins, you
could file a bug against Launchpad itself (or find someone to talk to on
#launchpad), but I think it will we very hard to convince them that a

Ok, I'm about to try that avenue too.

person who is delivering bad translations should be banned. On LP a team
can choose a restricted or moderated policy so that suggestions will
always be reviewed by members of the team.
The problem is that the Ubuntu team does not seem to cover everything on 
Launchpad, it only covers some of the projects.


12/09/2013 17:04, sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:

On LP I see: There are 2 direct members of the Sgioba Ubuntu na
G?idhlig/Sgioba Launchpad na G?idhlig team (moderated), both with
administrator status. When I look at the introduction of the owner's
personal page I cannot believe he/she does not speak a word of Gaelic.
Hannie
Yes, that's me and GunChleoc, as I said above, the core (if I can call 
them that) Ubuntu files are not the problem. The problem are all those 
other things which are on Launchpad, such as Linux Mint, which don't 
seem to fall under the locale teams' user settings i.e. whatever setting 
I choose, if the admin of Linux Mint grants him the right to translate 
into Gaelic, then the settings in the Ubuntu Gaelic team have no impact. 
It looks a bit as if there's Ubuntu core (in terms of rights) and then 
lots of little totally independent sub-projects.



Hi
it's really difficult to deal with someone that prolific.? If we annoy them 
then maybe they might become more deliberately destructive (although by the 
sounds of it he might do that badly too and end up doing more good than harm??)

Apart from entering profanities, I don't think it could get much worse...

Is there anyway of meeting the person face-to-face, preferably in a pub full of 
proper native-Scots speakers??

Not sure that would help, to be honest, it would probably get very 
heated. :/


Michael

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Re: Getting a user barred from a language

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Shane,

I should really have clarified that I mean Scottish Gaelic (gd). I could 
just chase after every project he tries to join but Launchpad is a big 
place so I'm hoping for a better solution that works across Launchpad.


Thanks for the comment about our passion for accuracy :) Funnily enough, 
it's actually more important in small languages than big ones. It's hard 
to convince speakers of small languages that tools in their language can 
be just as good and adequate - but if you then present them with bad 
translations, you have immediately lost your case!


Michael

11/09/2013 19:15, sgrìobh Shane Fagan:

Hey,

I am the admin for the team thats in charge of the Irish translations 
I don't know exactly how to restrict them. So if someone explains how 
to lock down translations to only members of the team I can do that 
and then it would be easy just to add you and not him and it will stop 
the bad translations.


Side note I really like that you are passionate about it its great to 
have accurate translations even for a smaller language like Irish. So 
what ever I can do to help ill do.


Shane



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Re: Getting a user barred from a language

[Michael Bauer]

Hi George,

That would work if there is one overarching project that sits above all 
others on Launchpad. Is there such a project? We have 
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-gd but that doesn't seem to have 
stopped this user from adding stuff in Linux Mint?


You're right, Ibrahima, better empty ...

Michael

11/09/2013 19:52, sgrìobh George Christofis:
A good practice to manage and control/check the translations, is to 
create a Moderated Team with privilege to review messages and the 
existing team (which is open i guess) you can give to the members 
privileges to make suggestions and only!
With this way the translations are filtered, because only the members 
of the Moderated team can review suggested messages.






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Getting a user barred from a language

[Michael Bauer]

Hi guys,

I'm really at my wits' end with a particular user, 
https://launchpad.net/~alexd. The main problem is that while 
enthusiastic, he is at best only semi-fluent in Gaelic. I have tried 
talking (politely) to him and also various other people off-list in the 
past in the hope of resolving this diplomatically until about May time 
when I suggested to him he hold off doing any further translation into 
Gaelic. The problem was that over a long period he has submitted so many 
really bad translations that it was taking me, and to some extent 
GunChleoc, ages to proofread the existing translations, a task not made 
easier by more bad translations appearing all the time.


At that point he took the huff and resigned from the Ubuntu team, which 
was unfortunate but bearing in mind this is supposed to be a serious 
product, I did not feel politeness ought to override QA so I hope this 
would be for the better. But now it seems he is back, this time doing 
stuff on Linux Mint and some other packs.


I am seriously fed up with chasing after this guy and since this cannot 
be the first time this has happened, I would like to know what the 
formal procedure is for getting him barred from translating into Gaelic. 
His contributions to code may be kosher, I have no way of telling, but 
his translations are seriously substandard and I really want to get to a 
point where we can stop chasing after his bad translations and focus on 
doing the job right. Both GunChleoc and I are highly experienced in 
software localization, between the two of us we run most Gaelic 
localization projects, including the Microsoft language packs and we are 
both in agreement that the quality is not acceptable.


I'm sorry it has come to this, given the paucity of Gaelic localizers, 
but it has become *that* bad.


Michael

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Re: Getting a user barred from a language

[Michael Bauer]

George,

But we already have a team like that at the Ubuntu level 
(https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-gd) from which he resigned. So far 
so good. But he has now, for example, done stuff here on Launchpad: 
https://translations.launchpad.net/linuxmint/latest/+lang/gd


That's *another* ~3k words we will have to chase down and proofread. So 
clearly not being a member of that team does not prevent him from doing 
stuff in some corners of Launchpad.


Michael

11/09/2013 20:20, sgrìobh George Christofis:
It is possible to create that i say on Launchpad, with this way we are 
working in Ubuntu Greece, as i know the same procedure also is 
followed by other translation teams.

For example in ubuntu Greece we have the following two translation teams:
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-el-starters 
https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-l10n-el-starters and 
https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-el 
https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-l10n-el


The first team can make only suggestions and the second can confirm or 
reject the suggestions or correct them.
If you be able to do something like this, you will have check on the 
translations.
And if you see that one member from the starters team makes good 
translations, you can invite him/her on the main team




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Deadlines

[Michael Bauer]

Could someone remind me of the deadline for the translations being 
pulled from Launchapd for this year's update? I'm trying my best to get 
rid of all the rubbish bit there's only so much I can fit in on a daily 
basis and I'm trying to plan best as I can.


Or has there been a new development regarding more regular updates for 
translations? I think someone mentioned something.


Thanks

Michael

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Onboard and word prediction

[Michael Bauer]

Hi,

Based on some strings in Onboard it seems that Ubuntu is capable of 
predictive typing - not sure if that also includes the physical keyboard 
but is it possible to supply data so that also works in the localized 
language?


Michael


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Re: Onboard and word prediction

[Michael Bauer]

Thanks Yuri! I'll email marmuta and see what he says.

Michael

23/08/2013 12:17, sgrìobh Yuri Chornoivan:

Hi,

There is a specification on this feature:

https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Onboard/SpecWordPrediction

(not sure, how far the current state is from its completeness).

It's just a guess, but I think it will work on self-learning anyhow 
but can be usable out-of-box for the languages with spellchecking 
dictionaries (hunspell or some other modern dictionary) only. The 
Asian languages will benefit from Input methods suggestions even 
without this AT-SPI feature.


Just my 2 cents.

Best regards,
Yuri 


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RE: Tajik Language - Adding support for a new language

[Michael Bauer]

With the help of Yuri, we did this guide to what's Ubuntu specific and 
what should be done upstream. It's only slightly out of date.


http://www.akerbeltz.org/index.php?title=Launchpad

Hope that helps,

Michael

02/08/2013 13:00, sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:

Or how specific-ubuntu files can be recognized on the Launchpad?

Thanks,
Victor



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Re: Statistics of use of a language

[Michael Bauer]

Before we get too excited, I'd like to query the ... likelihood of these 
stats.


I went and looked at those I'm most familiar with
Irish 5418
Gaelic 4570
Manx 1244

Now, I'm not sure what the starting point of these is but they look very 
wrong. At best, there are 100 Manx speakers in the world. Also, I get 
weekly blocklist reports from Mozilla which is essentially a very 
reliable way of measuring active users of Firefox and according to which 
there are some 100 regular users. Even if this is a cumulative figure 
over many years, both the Manx and the Gaelic figures are wy over 
what one might expect.


Or looking at it another way, Linux OS has an approximate share of 1-2%. 
So since there are less than 58,000 Gaelic speakers in the world, at 
best we would expect 1160 users or so at 2% penetration. Which is 
essentially impossible.


I have noted a similarly bizarre bloating in the Joomla langpack 
download figures and I have the sneaking suspicion that the stat counter 
there makes no difference between some bot downloading the pack for 
whatever reason and actualy users.


I don't know how the technical details of this work but perhaps we would 
get more reliable figures if we checked to see how many langpack 
downloads there were in conjunction with downloads of system software 
upgrades to weed out downloads of langpacks which don't actually 
represent systems in use.


Michael

04/07/2013 13:00, sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:

Original David's message can be found (with the references to the code)
here:

http://ubuntu.5.x6.nabble.com/LanguagePack-statistics-td1747839.html



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Re: Statistics of use of a language

[Michael Bauer]

Hi Tom,

04/07/2013 20:28, sgrìobh Tom Davies:

Hi :)
That usage figure of 1-2% has been quoted for decades without anyone 
really looking into it.  MS keeps telling us that it's still only 1-2% 
according to studies they paid for.
They broadly match the site stats I collect from my websites, below the 
data for June


Windows65.12%
Macintosh14.75%
iOS8.62%
Android5.88%
Linux3.00%
(not set)2.00%

Yes, folk have multiple devices so you're really measing devices, not 
users which is important to remember. But I am certain that a figure for 
Linux devices below 5% is realistic, if depressing.


I wasn't arguing which is the better one - I think this just came off a 
question of how many people are using which localization and I was 
pointing out that the langpack download stats are, in my view, not a 
reliable indicator.


For example, for Gaelic related sites such as mine you would expect a 
higher than average % of users with a Gaelic OS. But 77% of the OS 
languages visiting are English, Gaelic at 1.25%. Since Win 8 and Ubuntu 
are the only Gaelic desktop operating systems, that means either has a 
share *less* than 1.25% of visitors to my site. Which is, in fact, 
realistic at gut level and also way below what the langpack downloads 
might suggest.


So what we really need would be ask a site like Wikipedia if they could 
tell us what the OS languages of people are within each OS type.


Michael

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The gd problem again

[Michael Bauer]

Since absolutely *nothing* seems to be happening regarding the problem 
translations (well, apart from the bug getting automatically closed), I 
have just tried uploading the po files from oneric to saucy but of 
course they end up in some queue saying needs review.


One what basis does this review happen, is it automatic or manual and 
does it overwrite existing translations? In other words, am I wasting my 
time?


Cheers

Michael

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Re: Uploading po files

[Michael Bauer]

It's hard to say, that's for sure. I suspect many people who struggle 
never actually make it as far as the list but just give up. Perhaps the 
figures for translator-only attrition could shed some light on this, if 
they existed.


Also, LP seems to have not so great a reputation out there amongst pure 
localizers. I have been cautioned at least on 4 occassions by highly 
active localizers in other small-ish languages against using LP for 
anything but Ubuntu specific modules. For a variety of reasons, I ended 
up doing a lot more than that but that's by the by.


Don't get me wrong, I truly *like* the idea of a single place for 
handling lots of different localization projects, be that LP or Pootle 
based, but there are some rather serious issues with LP which 
(especially given the recent problems that have emerged, at least for 
this locale) greatly detract from it's potential usefulness.


Michael

26/05/2013 13:00, sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:

I am far from a developer and have never contributed a line of code yet I
was able to self teach myself how to contribute to translations. I'm not
suggesting there aren't areas that can be improved but just wanted to say
that in my years of experience Michael's recent issues appear to be an
exception rather than the rule. As Daniel has already provided some great
advice to Michael on his current situation I will not get involved in that
and confuse the matter further but I did want to point out that the system
that is currently in use is far from perfect but more than adequate.



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Re: Uploading po files

[Michael Bauer]

25/05/2013 12:38, sgrìobh Yuri Chornoivan:
The new translations should be propagated to all releases, so there 
are not much things wasted (if at all). This is called translation 
synchronization. The synchronization works slowly and is not instantly 
visible.
Thanks Yuri but I'm not so sure - the problem being that the not-so-good 
translator must have worked on a newer branch than I was, so I cannot 
see any of the proofread stuff in whossname, raring and somehow I doubt 
that the system automatically overwrites a translation in a newer branch 
with that in an older branch just because it has a newer date. No, I 
need a blank version to work off, this will get really crazy otherwise. 
If I get a blank, then I can upload the po's I have archived (assuming 
the upload process is capable of matching gettext even if the po's 
aren't 100% identical) and then start from there.


Each major release has its own name (I constantly forget which name is 
it so I prefer numbers).



I wonder why :)

Michael

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Re: Uploading po files

[Michael Bauer]

Joel,

25/05/2013 12:43, sgrìobh Joel Addison:

I would like to say that a lot of the information is there within the Ubuntu 
wiki and Launchpad, and is fairly obvious.
Really? Sure, most folk hit the wiki at least once when they start but I 
would wager a lot of money that most then just bookmark the URL and go 
straight to the translation portal without scrutinizing the wiki. It's a 
bit like the space hyperbypass documentation in the Hitchhiker's 
guide... once you have figured how the translation technically works, 
why would a translator feel the need to read the wiki on a weekly basis 
just in case?

For example, Ubuntu releases have always had a codename linked with the version 
number. Codenames are done alphabetically, so Raring will be newer than 
Oneiric. Releases are referred to

Again, that's obvious to someone plugged in to the developer news channel.

  using the codename until such time as they are released, when they take on 
the version number such as 13.04. Take a look 
athttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases  for a lot more information.

Which is something that would be immediately clear to anyone...

Another example is the Ubuntu translations front page on Launchpad 
-https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/. It has on the front page 
'Launchpad currently recommends translating Raring.'. It
Nice but again, the assumption is that a non-developer translator is 
interested in stuff above the level of their own language. The fewer 
clicks, the more likely they are to use it.

Your translations will appear as suggested translations for other packages and 
versions of Ubuntu when you start translating them. This means that your 
translations are not all wasted - they can be copied across rather easily. It 
also means that other people on the team can see what you have done while they 
are translating a different version of the package, which is very useful.
I am *not* going through all those PO files again to manually select the 
proofread versions, with all the bad translations left in there. I don't 
intend to pass out just because I'm trying to clean up Ubuntu.


Michael

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Re: Uploading po files

[Michael Bauer]

25/05/2013 14:24, sgrìobh David Planella:
Ok, let's focus on sorting this out instead. As I and others have 
mentioned in the thread, your work is by no means lost, which is the 
most important thing.
It's not that I was worried about having lost the translations - I keep 
backups of everything. What I *am* concerned about is a loss of 
time/need for re-checking stuff I already checked because, let's say I 
submit the debian-installer again on raring, I have no idea which 
strings changed/were new on raring so I have to check the entire file 
again in case something slipped through.


On Monday we can figure out more. But as I said before, and to set the 
expectations: developers are usually not very keen on doing these 
operations, as they imply sending manual queries to the database.


I filed this bug 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-translations/+bug/1184140  - should I 
turn it into a question?
Another option that might be easier, seeing that you are doing the 
corrections anyway, would be to leave the translations in Launchpad as 
they are (as you'll be replacing them), and remove the Scottish Gaelic 
language pack from Ubuntu. This way translations would simply not be 
shipped.
I'd rather start with a clean base - for one thing, it would allow me to 
maintain only Ubuntu specific stuff on LP and the other stuff upstream 
rather than try and juggle the same translations in two places. It would 
also prevent the half-dozen or so bad suggestions from appearing (some 
of them aren't even Gaelic!) for many of the strings, plus I could work 
offline in Virtaal and use my fairly massive translation memory which 
spans strings from over 2 dozen projects.


Michael


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Re: Uploading po files

[Michael Bauer]

Nothing exotic, I use Virtaal. I've used it before to edit the po files 
for Ubuntu so I doubt it's Virtaal's fault.


Michael

24/05/2013 17:33, sgrìobh Adolfo Jayme Barrientos:

Hi Michael,
which tool do you use to edit .po files? I’m short of ideas on this,
but maybe you should try to validate your .po...


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Re: Uploading po files

[Michael Bauer]

What does that mean? I downloaded the po and a couple of days later I 
uploaded. I'm not aware of anything else I have to watch as a translator 
on LP (well, apart from the confusing up/downstream thing and the 
placeholder bugs).


Michael

24/05/2013 18:23, sgrìobh Milo Casagrande:

I checked the import queue for empathy (raring) version, but I cannot
see the file you uploaded.
Which series did you use?


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Re: Uploading po files

[Michael Bauer]

Yes, I see the upload/import dialogue. It just says awaiting approval or 
something like that, there is no error message or error email.


I made a note of the empathy url before - the po has just disappeared 
from the queue again with no explanation:

https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/oneiric/+source/empathy/+imports

Michael

24/05/2013 21:54, sgrìobh Milo Casagrande:

After you upload a file, Launchpad will show you a dialog (a small
blueish box at the top of the page) with a link to the import queue.
You do not have to check, but it is good to take a look if the file is
there, or why it failed if it failed.

Usually Launchpad sends an email if the upload has problem.
Can you just point to where you uploaded the po file? The Launchpad
page of the translation: the file might still be in the queue.


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Uploading po files

[Michael Bauer]

Is the po upload broken by any chance? I uploaded 2 (failsafexini and 
empathy) last week, nothing happened and eventually they just 
disappeared from the queue. I tried again yesterday and still no luck. 
Anyone tried to upload something recently?


Michael

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Re: ubuntu-translators Digest, Vol 104, Issue 23

[Michael Bauer]

I'm not doing this on Google, but yes, the Wiki page has been updated
http://gd.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleachdaiche:Akerbeltz/Tr%C3%A0igh03

I haven't had a chance yet to deal with most of the descriptions and 
priorities yet though. I've got 4 books I need to work on for 
publication this week . But I will when I get a chance.


Michael

20/05/2013 13:00, sgrìobh ubuntu-translators-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com:

Yeah Hannie, I go along with sharing experience and tip. Very useful for
new teams.
@Michael, did you update the Google file?

Cheers
Ibrahima


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List of modules

[Michael Bauer]

Hi folks,

After having had a chat with a locale that has just joined I've started 
a draft table of all the modules (focussing on Page 1 to begin with) for 
the benefit of new/non-developer localizers to help them identify 
priorities (from the normal end user POV). I know there's some guidance 
here and there on the Wiki but to be honest, from our (non-developer 
localizers) POV, it doesn't offer what we need.


For now, I've stuck it in my sandbox on the Gaelic wiki (several 
reasons, while my login seems to work for the Ubuntu Wiki I've never 
edited or created new pages there and I don't seem to have a sandbox, 
plus the page where it's now allows IP editors to edit). If people think 
this would be good on the Ubuntu Wiki, I'm perfectly happy to copy and 
paste that over once it's more or less done. I did consider Google Docs 
or Etherpad but since Ubuntu runs a Wiki, that would mean having to 
rewrite stuff in Wiki markup at some point.


I'd like to invite you to add to the table and improve it. I'm not hung 
up about the naming for the headers, especially the last column we can 
talk about.


What I would be especially grateful for would be input on the Provides 
and Ubuntu Specific columns. Note the example from P2 I've stuck in 
(gimp20) to show how I'd like to handle that aspect. I'm not trying to 
talk down Launchpad but if a project is better handled upstream, then 
there should be some place that tells the uninitiated that that's the case.


It might also provide a reality check about what it's like using an 
interface not in your language :)


http://gd.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleachdaiche:Akerbeltz/Tr%C3%A0igh03

Tata

Michael


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Re: List of modules

[Michael Bauer]

Jared,

That may well do for locales which have large teams. Many locales are 
working off tiny teams, sometimes single individuals. That means you 
have to seriously prioritise your time. The list is sorted according to 
priorities which possibly apply to these larger locales but a) they're 
not explained and b) I have found they don't reflect what I would 
consider the end-user perspective well. For example, to have 
software-properties ranked above nautilus makes very little sense to me.


But most importantly, the list does *not* tell you which of these are 
actual Ubuntu-only modules and which are other projects. It may not 
matter in a language like German where there are lots of translators but 
for a tiny team to spend time on something like Gimp or Chrome to 
eventually discover that someone else may have already done this in the 
upstream project results in a lot of wasted time and effort that smaller 
teams can ill afford.


Michael

19/05/2013 12:58, sgrìobh Jared Norris:
I'm not quite sure what it is you're trying to achieve. The Ubuntu 
translation list is already in a prioritised list, all you need to do 
is go to the homepage [1] and select your language. The packages are 
then listed in the priority for translating.



[1] https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/raring/



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Re: List of modules

[Michael Bauer]

19/05/2013 16:29, sgrìobh Pierre Slamich:

We also have built such a list for French which is located at :
http://doc.ubuntu-fr.org/ubuntu-l10n-fr/raring#logiciels_specifiques_a_ubuntu_et_kubuntu
That's useful - I may nick the descriptions I think - many modules I'm 
still mostly guessing at their functions.


This pinpoints 2 issues we talked about during UDS : ressource 
fragmentation (we don't know what other teams already have) and 
ressource duplication (as a result, we recreate things several times).
We started on Friday to make progress on the Ubuntu Teams HealthCheck 
survey and on the website to fix that. The survey will be all about 
mapping all the ressources teams have produced, and the website will 
be about merging those ressources and making them available in many 
languages.


All people with time (for the HealthCheck) and Drupal and web admin 
skills (for the multilingual translation portal) are very much welcome.
Glad to hear there is movement in the right direction. Someone, I think 
Yuri, added a lot of info about the difference between Ubuntu specific 
and Gnome modules and I must say I'm shocked. Two thirds down the list, 
virtually all are downstream from their parent projects on LP. I daren't 
even think about page 2...


I'm not sure what I can contribute, I'm guessing the HealthCheck etc all 
require computing skills which are beyond me. But I will try and expand 
the list for now.


Michael

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Re: Blanking a po?

[Michael Bauer]

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

@Yuri - I'm not so much bothered about what comes up in the suggestions, 
that's fairly easy to ignore.


@David - Finding them isn't the problem either - they're everywhere bar 
those which I already fixed.


I'm just concerned about pushing out another release with really bad 
translations in it and I'm not sure I will be able to proofread it all 
before the October (?) release. Surely there must be a way around that? 
What would happen if it was discovered that a lone translator had been 
translating nothing but profanities for the last 3 years? Would we 
continue to push that out in releases just because the number of bad 
strings was staggering?


Cheers

Michael

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Re: Blanking a po?

[Michael Bauer]

Ah... that sounds workable, I didn't think of that - many thanks!

Michael

18/05/2013 14:36, sgrìobh Yuri Chornoivan:


Ok. You can just download PO and copy the English string over the 
wrong translations (Alt+Down in Virtaal, Ctrl+Space in Lokalize) then 
import the translation.


When there will be the time for revision, use Virtaal embedded checks 
or Lokalize filtering script to retranslate the duplicated translations.


There is no way to make the translation blank once the string is once 
translated in Rosetta.


Best regards,
Yuri 



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Re: Blanking a po?

[Michael Bauer]

18/05/2013 15:11, sgrìobh David Planella:

I'd recommend against that, though. Basically, every translation that
you import into the database is stored and never deleted. If you import
fake English translations, they will appear as global suggestions across
all of translatable Scottish Gaelic templates in Launchpad.
Well... true, but then again, the current setup is such that there 
already is a LOT of crap that is suggested across the gd locale. I'm not 
just talking about the bad translations - at some point, some joker (?) 
submitted Scots (as in, the Scottish descendent of Northern Anglo-Saxon) 
translations as Gaelic translations. Plus there's all the really bad 
stuff.


So it would just add once more bad suggestion so overall, as the Germans 
say, it won't make the cabbage fat.


But I agree that it's inelegant.

If you want to do down that route, I'd rather suggest you open a request
in Launchpad to wipe all of the Scottish Gaelic translations for the
Ubuntu project.

Generally developers are not too keen on running such database queries,
so they might tell you that it's not feasible for the risk involved in
direct database access, but it's another option to contemplate.
Hm if that was possible, I could then upload the clean po files I have 
in backup. Yes, that would make sense. I'll try that and see what they 
say. Thanks for suggesting.


Michael

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Import queue

[Michael Bauer]

Is there a way to circumvent the import queue? It sometimes takes *ages* 
for anything to show up.


Michael

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Re: Import queue

[Michael Bauer]

Yikes, forget I spoke :)

Michael

17/05/2013 11:56, sgrìobh Yuri Chornoivan:

Hi,

It seems that there is no way to circumvent it (even for developers 
and maintainers).


On the other hand, it takes not more than 24 hours for the translation 
to be imported. Three years ago you could wait for 3 days or a week 
for the import.


Best regards,
Yuri 


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Blanking a po?

[Michael Bauer]

Is there a way to request the blanking of a po with existing 
translations? We have resolved the issue with the translator who was 
very active but really not that fluent and he has voluntarily left the 
team so we know there isn't any more stuff coming from that side but it 
still leaves us with a large cleanup operation. Most of them are really 
bad, which is why I would like to find out if there a way of blanking 
the po's so that when the next update comes round, we don't have 
anything bad left in there. They are serious that bad that it would be 
preferrable to have English appear, rather than the translations.


I considered uploading a blank po but the system would probably flag 
that and not allow it, I'm guessing.


Thanks

Michael

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Re: Keyboards and locales

[Michael Bauer]

15/05/2013 05:44, sgrìobh Yuri Chornoivan:

Sorry for misguiding you then. :'(
No worries, I was just totally confused, not trying to give you a hard 
time at all!


So it must be ubiquity bug. You can try to file a bug against it on LP.

I'll try.


And one more thing I cannot understand: is it reproducible on every 
machine with gd_GB locale? 

Since it's a first-install problem, I assume so.

Michael

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Release of translations

[Michael Bauer]

Me again :)

I was looking at the release schedule here 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases and I was wondering if new translations 
are only released to live at these yearly dates? I've done quite a lot 
of proofreading recently and was wondering if there was some way of 
pushing those live via a software update maybe? I wouldn't be asking for 
this on a weekly basis or anything crazy but there's such a lot of 
really bad translations in our locale I was wondering if, until such 
time as it's mostly clean, there was a chance of doing frequent-ish 
updates, maybe once every 3 months or something?


Michael

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Re: Release of translations

[Michael Bauer]

Hi everyone,

14/05/2013 14:19, sgrìobh David Planella:


As in any project, there are areas in which there is room for
improvement, but the fact that Ubuntu is translated every single release
in more than 40 languages by volunteers, with contributions ranging from
upstream projects and Ubuntu itself, I wouldn't make me call it an
unholy mess by any stretch.
Of course you are right, there are always things which are not working 
quite as they should, I think everyone who's done any localization 
accepts that. But there are certain aspects of Launchpad/Ubuntu which 
are troubling. Please consider the following constructive criticism:


For translators (i.e. people who only do translation and otherwise have 
no deep insight or interest into the Launchpad/Ubuntu/Canonical setup, 
the situation is very confusing. In only understood today what this 
Canonical thing is that people keep mentioning. As a localizer I'm a 
bit like Sid the Sloth, I see software, I translate it. I saw Ubuntu, I 
translate it. And since all the arrows for Ubuntu point to Launchpad, 
one ends up equating the two. And without researching the background of 
Ubuntu (you could argue that's my fault), the translator is in the dark 
as to who Canonical is.


Again from the same angle, you're then working on Ubuntu - or at least 
you think you are - and then discover eventually that not everything on 
Launchpad is Ubuntu or rather, that Launchpad pulls together a whole lot 
of po files from all sorts of projects which may or may not be core 
Ubuntu and which may or may not be set up to link with the 
out-of-Launchpad-projects. Like the ancient Firefox project that's on 
Launchpad, or the Chromium project (that I ended up working on for a 
while till I learned that it's not maintained). That's *really* not good 
and way beyond the normal lumps and bumps in a localization project. 
You're right, 40 locales is quite an achievement but on the other hand, 
it probably also entails a huge amount of wasted effort that people have 
put into translating things that will never see the light of day. If 
that was clearer or more streamlined, then my guess is there would 
probably be more than 40 locales.


I have looked at the documentation - in terms of the questions of just 
a translator, there are many things it doesn't answer.


So here are my suggestions:
1) make it real clear which modules on LP are Ubuntu specific and which 
are other projects
2) kill/retire/archive the dead projects (like Firefox 3.6, Chromium 
...) or at least slap a big RETIRED sign on them.
3) make it real clear which modules are on LP will result in a 
translation for Ubuntu but not necessarily upstream. If I understood 
this right, it might theoretically happen that GIMP will get translated 
twice, once on LP and once on/at GIMP. Or link up with these external 
projects to share the translations.



As you all know, in recent cycles my focus has not been on translations,
and others who helped coordinating translations have also got busy with
life.
Of course that happens, 2012 was a bad year in terms of OS l10n for me 
too. But I think these issues must have started appearing a long time ago.

However, quite recently, the unstoppable Pierre Slamich and a group of
other intrepid translators have taken the reigns on an initiative to
improve the current situation.

That sounds good :)

much welcome, but so far any recent reply you've sent has been very
negative. You are free to express your opinion by all means, but being
negative without being constructive and not getting involved does not
help the effort others are putting into this, let alone new contributors
like Michael.
Well, it's frustrating if there's a long term problem and you feel like 
nothing much is happening and eventually you get a bit cranky. I'm 
currently in cranky mode with Mozilla because their l10n is seriously 
getting messed up and they're ignoring it, passing the buck or whatever. 
Perhaps it's just a communication issue and it would help to say We 
know it's not great, it's on the to-do list but right now we don't have 
the resources/time.



I would encourage everyone to participate in the translations UDS
sessions, get involved and move forward, as we've always done in the past.

I'll have a shufty but I'm not a developer I'm afraid.

- For stable releases, the plan is to release updates of language packs
   regularly. As stated, this has not been working well indeed, and
   it'd be good to discuss the way forward at UDS.

I hope this provides an overview and answers your questions.

It does - many thanks for taking the time to explain!

Michael

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Re: Keyboards and locales

[Michael Bauer]

Ok I'm confused now. Following on from this, I duly filed a bug 
(https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=64478) and even did a diff 
- only to be shot down by a rather brusque chap telling me it's an 
Ubuntu UI issue and nothing to do with freedesktop.


Am I not getting something or is he not getting something?

Michael

11/05/2013 14:09, sgrìobh Yuri Chornoivan:

Hi,

The default keyboards are defined in xkeyboard-config [1] files [2].

If there is no localized layout file the defaults from 
keyboard-configuration [3] will be used.


Hope this helps.

Best regards,
Yuri

[1] http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/XKeyboardConfig

[2] http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xkeyboard-config/tree/symbols

[3] http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/keyboard-configuration 



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Keyboards and locales

[Michael Bauer]

Having sorted out (pending acceptance by a glibc maintainer) the locale 
data bugs (big thanks to Yuri and Claude) the next thing on my list of 
locale related issues is to check the default keyboard settings 
associated with gd-GB.


I'm assuming a localized version of Ubuntu comes with a default keyboard 
which is specified somewhere. I've tried googling this but all I'm 
finding is instructions on how to change it but not how to identify and 
potentially change the default that's set during the first installation.


Anyone know?

Thanks

Michael

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