Re: [ubuntu-uk] Exwick Community Centre in Exeter - pictures
Very cool, I too would love to hear more about this setup -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] Exwick community centre
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I have posted Rob Beards report to the lug wiki and now added a link to the LTSP site, Will try to add more information as I get it. Can't do too much as I wasn't directly involved in the problem. http://www.dcglug.org.uk/members/wiki/?id=Saturday+7th+February+2009+-+Exwick+Community+Centre%2C+Exeter Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQB8sACgkQaggq1k2FJq2pwgCfSP8W13bteyh1pw3ZchwEHeq1 XgwAnAtI/5xm/6jLopin4g5SUf32mYs+ =RxTu -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
The other way to get windows out of schools is to remove the glass and replace with bricks :-) David King Vinothan Shankar wrote: I've created a petition to the Prime Minister to make the primary OS in schools free and open source - it can be found at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschools. To anyone that points out I should have suggested Ubuntu for Education, the first submission did, but was rejected on the grounds that it was promoting commercial products or services. The petition should probably also have pointed out that schools could keep the same hardware, but petitions there are restricted to 1000 characters including spaces. Please sign. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
Signed -- cheers for setting that up. Doug. 2009/2/9 David King linux...@avoura.com The other way to get windows out of schools is to remove the glass and replace with bricks :-) David King Vinothan Shankar wrote: I've created a petition to the Prime Minister to make the primary OS in schools free and open source - it can be found at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschools. To anyone that points out I should have suggested Ubuntu for Education, the first submission did, but was rejected on the grounds that it was promoting commercial products or services. The petition should probably also have pointed out that schools could keep the same hardware, but petitions there are restricted to 1000 characters including spaces. Please sign. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aparently primnary schools are forced to use MS office so the children are ready for what is used in Secondary schools which is I guess a fair argument i guess. And i guess secondaries feel obliged to use MS office as they see it as industry standard. However looking at what happen at the exwick community centre where they children/ Young people and adults there seemed to have little problem finding their way around ubuntu (which looks a lot different to windows), it proves that the children would have no problems going from say open office to Ms office in the secondary school, ( I am only going from what has been said in the e-mails since) I am not an expert, but it seems no matter what justification people try and use for using Windows, there is a way round it, Kids / young people can simply adapt, I am 33 and having used KDE for years, installed ubuntu (using gnome) had no problem with it, ok it take a while to find what I need, but I have 3 menus, applications, places, adn system, so its pretty obvious what each one is for, When we have more write ups, we should have more observations and evidence to back the above up, Paul David King wrote: The other way to get windows out of schools is to remove the glass and replace with bricks :-) David King Vinothan Shankar wrote: I've created a petition to the Prime Minister to make the primary OS in schools free and open source - it can be found at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschools. To anyone that points out I should have suggested Ubuntu for Education, the first submission did, but was rejected on the grounds that it was promoting commercial products or services. The petition should probably also have pointed out that schools could keep the same hardware, but petitions there are restricted to 1000 characters including spaces. Please sign. - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQEukACgkQaggq1k2FJq1/5wCgkUjrzWDrrYwX7PP2pTFYoUYb z9MAn3lO7xojGrzIHxyW3qCrwlGKHRVi =NYF3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
Aparently primnary schools are forced to use MS office so the children are ready for what is used in Secondary schools which is I guess a fair argument i guess. And i guess secondaries feel obliged to use MS office as they see it as industry standard. There used to be a saying in the computer industry which was Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. I think it's shifted to Microsoft. Speaking from experience, most school IT department heads don't know that much about IT. They perceive it as a 'safe' option to go with MS, every if it costs a fortune, because everyone else uses it. It's a classic circular argument... Lee -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Exwick community centre
2009/2/9 Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I have posted Rob Beards report to the lug wiki and now added a link to the LTSP site, Will try to add more information as I get it. Can't do too much as I wasn't directly involved in the problem. http://www.dcglug.org.uk/members/wiki/?id=Saturday+7th+February+2009+-+Exwick+Community+Centre%2C+Exeter That URL just gave me a 401 response. Probably not what you intended. :-) Cofion, Neil. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Exwick community centre - url fix
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 http://www.dcglug.org.uk/members/wiki/?id=Saturday+7th+February+2009+-+Exwick+Community+Centre%2C+Exeter That URL just gave me a 401 response. Probably not what you intended. :-) Cofion, Neil. http://www.dcglug.org.uk/wiki/?id=Saturday+7th+February+2009+-+Exwick+Community+Centre%2C+Exeter Try that one, otherwise goto the lug site, click meetings and scroll down to the appropriate link sorry for the error. Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQJCwACgkQaggq1k2FJq0fqQCfTmEcLL2lD8UCd+HRk0yBSr1j 8QQAoJHfTjaCbwpkPbgefPCcVbkd4KYA =13qn -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
Even if school's don't solely use Windows, they usually have to use it as the main OS, as the AQA exam software only works with Windows, not under Wine; and the SIMS software uses MS Word to view files, which cannot be changed to OpenOffice even on Windows as it's hardcoded into the XML file. On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:01:31 +, LeeGroups mailgro...@varga.co.uk wrote: Aparently primnary schools are forced to use MS office so the children are ready for what is used in Secondary schools which is I guess a fair argument i guess. And i guess secondaries feel obliged to use MS office as they see it as industry standard. There used to be a saying in the computer industry which was Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. I think it's shifted to Microsoft. Speaking from experience, most school IT department heads don't know that much about IT. They perceive it as a 'safe' option to go with MS, every if it costs a fortune, because everyone else uses it. It's a classic circular argument... Lee -- __ () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 You could probably go with having MS on the admin network, then Linux or fre softare on the academic network, eventually people will filter through who can and want to use alternatives, then chance will come problem is MS seem to have a huge marketing budget, and are able to get stuff like OOXML fast tracked, so against that, we have very little muscle unless we want to play by some other rules (which we don't) its a case of education and educating people about the alternatives, putting up the right arguments, backed by proper refereced resources and keep going. Looking at wikipedia office suites entry, it says ms has something called groove, (something about collaboration, even though the name suggests otherwise (some sort of music app perhaps), anyway ubuntu needs something like this, so people can collaborate on stuff, via the desktop, or does it have it, if so we need to market those features and get them to work better with things like open office. Paul LeeGroups wrote: That's true, but aren't they both adminstrative functions? How many PC's are there in an average school vs. the average number of adminstrative PC's? Lee Without wishing to sound like a know-it-all, if the SIMS software uses an XML file to control what's used to view files (as per your mail below), then XML files can easily be altered... they are straight ASCII files which can be edited with Notepad... Even if school's don't solely use Windows, they usually have to use it as the main OS, as the AQA exam software only works with Windows, not under Wine; and the SIMS software uses MS Word to view files, which cannot be changed to OpenOffice even on Windows as it's hardcoded into the XML file. On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:01:31 +, LeeGroups mailgro...@varga.co.uk wrote: Aparently primnary schools are forced to use MS office so the children are ready for what is used in Secondary schools which is I guess a fair argument i guess. And i guess secondaries feel obliged to use MS office as they see it as industry standard. There used to be a saying in the computer industry which was Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. I think it's shifted to Microsoft. Speaking from experience, most school IT department heads don't know that much about IT. They perceive it as a 'safe' option to go with MS, every if it costs a fortune, because everyone else uses it. It's a classic circular argument... Lee - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQL9sACgkQaggq1k2FJq0VHgCeJHBH9BXQFh+qPDep5/8yb2X6 cJEAniFBTxzE2QwCTaW/BRmnQzC8Lp1M =QpDc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
Your cause is honorable however for Linux to turn the trend. you must first prove to those schools that Linux is better and that it can do things far better than windows. In the Linux community there has to be a leap in ideas where when the user logs on he/she is presented, ready to use icons on the desktop, like open office and the if the user places their mouse over the top the icon gets larger. In the background the programs are already loaded and when clicked the package opens in less then 2 seconds. When the OS is first loaded its check the hardware and looks for the drivers. it then displays them to the user to confirm these driver are ready for download. These are just some of the ideas that would make Linux more sellable to user to choose what OS their looking for. On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Vinothan Shankar neversaymon...@googlemail.com wrote: I've created a petition to the Prime Minister to make the primary OS in schools free and open source - it can be found at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschools. To anyone that points out I should have suggested Ubuntu for Education, the first submission did, but was rejected on the grounds that it was promoting commercial products or services. The petition should probably also have pointed out that schools could keep the same hardware, but petitions there are restricted to 1000 characters including spaces. Please sign. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- Robert Flatters, AMBSC -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Exwick Community Centre in Exeter - pictures
Sean Miller wrote: Hi Rob, Can you just post a little about the infrastructure you've put in place? Is this thin client? Sean Yep no problem. Basically (a shortened version), the system is using Ubuntu 8.04.2 with the LTSP server packages installed and a few extra applications from Edubuntu (educational software mainly). The server itself is a Dell PowerEdge R300 with an Intel Xeon 2.66GHz Quad Core CPU, 4GB Ram and 2 x 250GB hard drives attached to a RAID controller running as a mirror. The server has two Gigabit NICs built in, one (eth1) is attached to a HP 8-port Gigabit switch which in turn connects to the LTSP clients, the other port (eth0) is attached to an IPCop box which has the Update Accelerator and Advanced Proxy addons installed (Update Accelerator caches updates for Windows Linux so if we run an install day it will save bandwidth plus any updates the server gets are cached too and Advanced Proxy provides content filtering, IIRC using SquidGuard). The client machines are fairly old Dell Optiplex GX110 machines with P3 1GHz CPUs and 256MB Ram. They have had their CD drives left in but hard drives removed. The clients boot over the network via PXE. Originally we were going to use some old AMD K6/2 450 machines which were donated by a school but due to the amount of time they were sat in my garage they started to rust, plus they were AT cases and didn't have any USB ports so it would have added extra costs for PCI USB cards and Compact Flash to IDE adaptors to boot them up with. The clients work in the same was as a standard thin client (albeit desktop size machines rather than something that can be mounted on the monitor). We purchased brand new 19 Widescreen monitors for the clients and Trevor who runs the community centre managed to get some keyboards and mice. All in all it works really well. The monitors are detected and the clients boot at the correct widescreen resolution, sound works out of the box (something which was a real chore to get working in the old LTSP version 3 packages a couple of years back) and Flash also works (I used the Flash 10 plugin direct from Adobe). One or two apps don't seem to like working on thin clients (Tuxtyping won't let the user quit and Audacity crashes) but I'm sure the fussy apps could possibly run as local applications (not tried this yet). I estimate the whole cost was about £3000 for 6 clients, that covered the server (which was close to £2000 IIRC), monitors (which were about £100 a pop) and materials for the cabinets. The kit was purchased about a year ago so I presume it would be a bit cheaper (considering monitors are nearer to about £70 each now). If I did it again I would also build a server from components too. I originally spec'd up a server for about £600 which was around the same spec as the Dell server but one of the other guys helping on the project wanted us to get a Dell server with the 3 years next day business support, raid controller and Remote Access Card which pushed the cost up quite a bit. I did work out that a quad core server with two 250GB hard drives and 4GB ram would be closer to about £400 to £500 nowadays, possibly even cheaper. In fact I dare say a quad core server with 4GB Ram might have been a bit overkill for 6 clients. I think that covers it, if you want to know anything else just let me know. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
I haven't tried it myself, but according to http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sf-uk-mias/browse_thread/thread/9944ecbcb49896cf?hl=enq=sims#b482426374ef3534, http://www.edugeek.net/forums/office-software/29498-open-office-v-ms-office.html, http://www.edugeek.net/forums/mis-systems/4504-sims-net-does-not-fully-support-open-office-post45518.html and another better thread with more details on edugeek I can;t find, it's not possible to simply edit the XML file, or even change the appropriate SIMS entry in the registry. Harry Rickards On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 13:35:26 +, Philip Stubbs phi...@stuphi.co.uk wrote: 2009/2/9 LeeGroups mailgro...@varga.co.uk: Without wishing to sound like a know-it-all, if the SIMS software uses an XML file to control what's used to view files (as per your mail below), then XML files can easily be altered... they are straight ASCII files which can be edited with Notepad... Its OK, you are at no risk of sounding like a Know-it-all if you suggest Notepad. Notepad! Are you mad? Vi, Vim, Emacs or even Gedit, but not Notepad, please. :-) The only useful thing I can think of using Notepad for is a small application to test if Wine is working. -- Philip Stubbs -- __ () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Exwick community centre
Paul Sutton wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I have posted Rob Beards report to the lug wiki and now added a link to the LTSP site, Will try to add more information as I get it. Can't do too much as I wasn't directly involved in the problem. http://www.dcglug.org.uk/members/wiki/?id=Saturday+7th+February+2009+-+Exwick+Community+Centre%2C+Exeter Paul Only problem is you need to be a member of the Devon Cornwall LUG to read it :-) When I can work out how to log back into my blog I will post some more details. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
Harry Rickards wrote: Even if school's don't solely use Windows, they usually have to use it as the main OS, as the AQA exam software only works with Windows, not under Wine; and the SIMS software uses MS Word to view files, which cannot be changed to OpenOffice even on Windows as it's hardcoded into the XML file. Technically I guess you could argue that SIMS are trying to enforce a monopoly by using MS Word to view files over just using the default application to open .doc files (be it Word, OpenOffice, WordPerfect, Works or even the MS Word viewer). Not having used SIMS software though I'm assuming Word is just used to view/edit/print the output from SIMS rather than having any specific macros built into the documents. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
LeeGroups wrote: Aparently primnary schools are forced to use MS office so the children are ready for what is used in Secondary schools which is I guess a fair argument i guess. And i guess secondaries feel obliged to use MS office as they see it as industry standard. There used to be a saying in the computer industry which was Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. I think it's shifted to Microsoft. Speaking from experience, most school IT department heads don't know that much about IT. They perceive it as a 'safe' option to go with MS, every if it costs a fortune, because everyone else uses it. It's a classic circular argument... From the point of view of some, even careers are at stake I talk to my local Adult Education Centre contact, and it is obvious to me that the person has trained on MS office stuff in detail, is all set up for it, and delivers free MS 'advertising' by running courses on MS products from that moment on for ever. When I mention Open Office to them I notice that one factor is that they do not use it personally (at home), nor know anything in detail. Life is busy, and they would need a strong motive to look at OO. There is a momentum surrounding their courses too - If their customers were not marketed OO clearly and well, then the Learning Centre would get no customers for non MS courses. Customers expectations, influenced by the marketing and the retail environment, are waiting to be changed.. Marketing of the Free 'Alternative to Windows' is required at all levels to deflect the gravy train slightly away from MS, -- alan cocks Ubuntu user #10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
Someone I know who goes to a CLAIT course was told that an Operating System meant Windows, no mention of Linux or Mac OSX, and that an application was simply either an MS Office App or IE, again do mention of OpenOffice or Firefox. Maybe the instructors don't even know alternatives to MS software exist? Harry Rickards On Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:31:58 +, alan c aecl...@candt.waitrose.com wrote: LeeGroups wrote: Aparently primnary schools are forced to use MS office so the children are ready for what is used in Secondary schools which is I guess a fair argument i guess. And i guess secondaries feel obliged to use MS office as they see it as industry standard. There used to be a saying in the computer industry which was Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM. I think it's shifted to Microsoft. Speaking from experience, most school IT department heads don't know that much about IT. They perceive it as a 'safe' option to go with MS, every if it costs a fortune, because everyone else uses it. It's a classic circular argument... From the point of view of some, even careers are at stake I talk to my local Adult Education Centre contact, and it is obvious to me that the person has trained on MS office stuff in detail, is all set up for it, and delivers free MS 'advertising' by running courses on MS products from that moment on for ever. When I mention Open Office to them I notice that one factor is that they do not use it personally (at home), nor know anything in detail. Life is busy, and they would need a strong motive to look at OO. There is a momentum surrounding their courses too - If their customers were not marketed OO clearly and well, then the Learning Centre would get no customers for non MS courses. Customers expectations, influenced by the marketing and the retail environment, are waiting to be changed.. Marketing of the Free 'Alternative to Windows' is required at all levels to deflect the gravy train slightly away from MS, -- alan cocks Ubuntu user #10391 Linux user #360648 -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
LeeGroups wrote: Andrew Oakley wrote: [MS home/academic/student licences at up to 90% discount] If you try to argue against Microsoft on grounds of price, you'll fail every time. Home users, schools, universities and students don't pay full rate for software. Only ... I understand what we're saying about up front costs vs. support costs, BUT, even at £35 for a copy of Office, and ... That's, say, £8,000 on MS software that could have been spent on hardware... And it's not like it's one-off cost, with the gradual I think you're missing the point. Schools and universities are, in the UK, reasonably well-funded. Below a certain point, ***price is generally not a consideration AT ALL***, regardless of whether they spend it on hardware or software or consumables. Ten thousand pounds here or there is a couple of sides of A4 grant application paperwork, not a major concern. Microsoft's academic discount simply reduces the cost so that it is not a barrier rather than the price being attractive in its own right. To repeat: Below a certain point, ***price is generally not a consideration AT ALL*** in the school/college IT sector. Schools and universities install Microsoft because that's what employers demand to see most often on CVs. The institution considers can we provide training for the skills that the employers want most often and if the answer is yes, they try to do it. The school or college makes a business case to their funding body (can you see where my job comes in here yet?). They say something like N% of local employers are demanding $TECHNICAL_THINGY skills, it will cost us $GBP_IRRELEVANT_AMOUNT. The funding body (eg. LEA) says Right ho, that's a good business case, here is $GBP_IRRELEVANT_AMOUNT. If the funding body can't afford it, it goes to central government and says We have M% unemployment in our area. If you paid us $GBP_IRRELEVANT_AMOUNT then we could reduce unemployment by P% and central government decides whether or not to cough up. It has virtually nothing to do with price and everything to do with employers' skill demands. If local businesses demand OpenOffice from schools and colleges, then it will happen. If geek dads demand OpenOffice... no effect. Andrew Oakley Head of Software Development Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) 95 Promenade, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire GL50 1HZ _ Higher Education Statistics Agency Ltd (HESA) is a company limited by guarantee, registered in England at 95 Promenade Cheltenham GL50 1HZ. Registered No. 2766993. The members are Universities UK and GuildHE. Registered Charity No. 1039709. Certified to ISO 9001 and ISO 27001. HESA Services Ltd (HSL) is a wholly owned subsidiary of HESA, registered in England at the same address. Registered No. 3109219. _ This outgoing email was virus scanned for HESA by MessageLabs. _ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
That style letter was understandable from Microslop how ever they did forget to say that they also give free lolly pops to all the starving children in the developing countries that they advertise there products Rik Boland 15 Stanley Place, Lancaster, LA1 5PN Mobile 07866439588 We need Justice but we also need Grace and Mercy from God to do this. --- On Mon, 9/2/09, Andrew Oakley andrew.oak...@hesa.ac.uk wrote: From: Andrew Oakley andrew.oak...@hesa.ac.uk Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools To: British Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 6:06 PM LeeGroups wrote: Andrew Oakley wrote: [MS home/academic/student licences at up to 90% discount] If you try to argue against Microsoft on grounds of price, you'll fail every time. Home users, schools, universities and students don't pay full rate for software. Only ... I understand what we're saying about up front costs vs. support costs, BUT, even at £35 for a copy of Office, and ... That's, say, £8,000 on MS software that could have been spent on hardware... And it's not like it's one-off cost, with the gradual I think you're missing the point. Schools and universities are, in the UK, reasonably well-funded. Below a certain point, ***price is generally not a consideration AT ALL***, regardless of whether they spend it on hardware or software or consumables. Ten thousand pounds here or there is a couple of sides of A4 grant application paperwork, not a major concern. Microsoft's academic discount simply reduces the cost so that it is not a barrier rather than the price being attractive in its own right. To repeat: Below a certain point, ***price is generally not a consideration AT ALL*** in the school/college IT sector. Schools and universities install Microsoft because that's what employers demand to see most often on CVs. The institution considers can we provide training for the skills that the employers want most often and if the answer is yes, they try to do it. The school or college makes a business case to their funding body (can you see where my job comes in here yet?). They say something like N% of local employers are demanding $TECHNICAL_THINGY skills, it will cost us $GBP_IRRELEVANT_AMOUNT. The funding body (eg. LEA) says Right ho, that's a good business case, here is $GBP_IRRELEVANT_AMOUNT. If the funding body can't afford it, it goes to central government and says We have M% unemployment in our area. If you paid us $GBP_IRRELEVANT_AMOUNT then we could reduce unemployment by P% and central government decides whether or not to cough up. It has virtually nothing to do with price and everything to do with employers' skill demands. If local businesses demand OpenOffice from schools and colleges, then it will happen. If geek dads demand OpenOffice... no effect. Andrew Oakley Head of Software Development Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) 95 Promenade, Cheltenham, Gloucestershire GL50 1HZ _ Higher Education Statistics Agency Ltd (HESA) is a company limited by guarantee, registered in England at 95 Promenade Cheltenham GL50 1HZ. Registered No. 2766993. The members are Universities UK and GuildHE. Registered Charity No. 1039709. Certified to ISO 9001 and ISO 27001. HESA Services Ltd (HSL) is a wholly owned subsidiary of HESA, registered in England at the same address. Registered No. 3109219. _ This outgoing email was virus scanned for HESA by MessageLabs. _ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
Harry Rickards wrote: Someone I know who goes to a CLAIT course was told that an Operating System meant Windows, no mention of Linux or Mac OSX, and that an application was simply either an MS Office App or IE, again do mention of OpenOffice or Firefox. Maybe the instructors don't even know alternatives to MS software exist? How are they going to get told? -- alan cocks Ubuntu user #10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
I did the European Driving License a few years ago and there was no mention of open source alternatives. I didn't know about it untill a friend told me about Linux because soloey because me Microslop PC was broken and had to buy another copy of XP to fix it. This I couldn't afford. Rik Boland 15 Stanley Place, Lancaster, LA1 5PN Mobile 07866439588 We need Justice but we also need Grace and Mercy from God to do this. --- On Mon, 9/2/09, alan c aecl...@candt.waitrose.com wrote: From: alan c aecl...@candt.waitrose.com Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools To: British Ubuntu Talk ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com Date: Monday, 9 February, 2009, 6:32 PM Harry Rickards wrote: Someone I know who goes to a CLAIT course was told that an Operating System meant Windows, no mention of Linux or Mac OSX, and that an application was simply either an MS Office App or IE, again do mention of OpenOffice or Firefox. Maybe the instructors don't even know alternatives to MS software exist? How are they going to get told? -- alan cocks Ubuntu user #10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools (UK Marketing!)
Imho, a great place to advertise would be the morning star newspaper: http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk Its socialist/communist, so it would be good targeted advertising (since socialism/communism=no to capitalism eg big companies like Microsoft) The circulations not bad at about 50,000 copies sold per day, compared to the guardians 350,000 Advertising rate are (quote the contact us page) from £1.42 plus VAT per line or £5.17 plus VAT per column centrimetre. Ie a reasonable sized ad would probably be about 25 quid, towards which i wouldnt mind contributing 2009/2/9 alan c aecl...@candt.waitrose.com: Paul Sutton wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 You could probably go with having MS on the admin network, then Linux or fre softare on the academic network, eventually people will filter through who can and want to use alternatives, then chance will come problem is MS seem to have a huge marketing budget, and are Marketing! Marketing is the key skill with a company such as MS. It is also the weakest point with FOSS. Marketing has short term obvious goals and also much longer term, subtle, goals. The trick that MS have and probably will continue to pull is a long term very wide game. Even huge resources such as US national or European systems find difficulty with bringing the monopoly wagon to heel, once it is successfully rolling along, seemingly downhill. There has been a very successful heavy momentum built up, a very heavy wagon, rolling downhill. I have believed for a long time and I still believe that the least we can do in the UK is to have a UK list focussed on UK marketing Ubuntu. Not a shared list, a specific and focussed list. If it turns out that there are not many subscribers then at least the problem is clear to see! It can be addressed. Very few FOSS enthusiasts are keen on marketing, and I think a UK specialist list will get the best from what little resource we have. At the local Computer Fair yesterday that I am fortunate to display at, a lad of about 10 years took a Parted Magic CD, his father was there in support. The intended action was to resize a Windows partition or similar, with FOSS, for FOSS. It will take at least another 10 years before that particular lad gets close to a position of influence in an organisation, perhaps 15 years. *That* is the time scale of change, and much longer if it is not driven hard by focussed, determined people. *Now* is a good time to start! -- alan cocks Ubuntu user #10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
2009/2/8 Vinothan Shankar neversaymon...@googlemail.com: I've created a petition to the Prime Minister to make the primary OS in schools free and open source - it can be found at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschools. To anyone that points out I should have suggested Ubuntu for Education, the first submission did, but was rejected on the grounds that it was promoting commercial products or services. The petition should probably also have pointed out that schools could keep the same hardware, but petitions there are restricted to 1000 characters including spaces. This has been discussed heavily elsewhere including on the BBC Backstage mailing list. http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html For those not on it the thread is archived here:- http://www.mail-archive.com/backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk/msg10515.html One particular mail which caught my eye:- http://www.mail-archive.com/backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk/msg10518.html Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools (UK Marketing!)
alan c wrote: Marketing! Marketing is the key skill with a company such as MS. It is also the weakest point with FOSS. Yep, I think part of the problem is the fact that as individuals we probably don't have much money to put into marketing. In my area I've been giving out Ubuntu CDs and also copies of The OpenDisc and I know a fellow LUG member (Paul Sutton) has been doing the same in his area. Marketing has short term obvious goals and also much longer term, subtle, goals. The trick that MS have and probably will continue to pull is a long term very wide game. Even huge resources such as US national or European systems find difficulty with bringing the monopoly wagon to heel, once it is successfully rolling along, seemingly downhill. There has been a very successful heavy momentum built up, a very heavy wagon, rolling downhill. I get the feeling for every one person we encourage to move over to FLOSS there are 10 more who just get the latest pirated version of Windows from a friend. I can't help but think Microsoft are turning a blind eye to things like this which I got shot off for a friend who had it installed by a bloke in the pub... http://www.winxpu.info/ I have believed for a long time and I still believe that the least we can do in the UK is to have a UK list focussed on UK marketing Ubuntu. Not a shared list, a specific and focussed list. If it turns out that there are not many subscribers then at least the problem is clear to see! It can be addressed. Very few FOSS enthusiasts are keen on marketing, and I think a UK specialist list will get the best from what little resource we have. I certainly agree and I would be interested in joining such a list. I guess you could say what works in one country may not work in another. At the local Computer Fair yesterday that I am fortunate to display at, a lad of about 10 years took a Parted Magic CD, his father was there in support. The intended action was to resize a Windows partition or similar, with FOSS, for FOSS. That's good, no doubt it will have saved them £40 or so on Partition Magic. I just wish there were computer fairs down here in Devon, there used to be one a few years back but nothing like that now, the nearest thing is a car boot sale. I wonder actually if we'd be able to give away Ubuntu CDs at car boot sales without trading standards thinking we were giving away pirate software? (they don'#t seem to do much about the pirate DVD sellers at least). It will take at least another 10 years before that particular lad gets close to a position of influence in an organisation, perhaps 15 years. *That* is the time scale of change, and much longer if it is not driven hard by focussed, determined people. Well hopefully he'll get a good start with FLOSS, he may even be able to encourage his friends to switch too. The experience I had when I was at school and college is that there were a few of us who used to really be into computers in a geeky way (more than playing games) and we'd share PD and shareware stuff, I guess this still happens so if they're sharing FLOSS software then that has to be good. *Now* is a good time to start! Yep, although I guess we may not make so much of a dent against Microsoft and Windows 7, we might be able to target some of the possible upgraders. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] marketing
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I have created a mini advert type thing thats probably small enough to go in the window of a shop, (e.g newsagent), it has link to the dcglug, but its aimed and promoting ubuntu and more importantly support networks via the lug, (mail discussion list) released as creative commons so you are free to use, edit, improve etc etc. hope it helps file formats .pdf and .odf Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQgdQACgkQaggq1k2FJq0RnQCdEBhvahZvmDPDgSVCNqHvHQN2 mZkAn2hKd0s1xUuVANIli9U4ykNta93a =mzAe -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] marketing
Sorry if I've missed something but where can you get the files? James On 9 Feb 2009, at 19:20, Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi I have created a mini advert type thing thats probably small enough to go in the window of a shop, (e.g newsagent), it has link to the dcglug, but its aimed and promoting ubuntu and more importantly support networks via the lug, (mail discussion list) released as creative commons so you are free to use, edit, improve etc etc. hope it helps file formats .pdf and .odf Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQgdQACgkQaggq1k2FJq0RnQCdEBhvahZvmDPDgSVCNqHvHQN2 mZkAn2hKd0s1xUuVANIli9U4ykNta93a =mzAe -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] marketing - oops included url this time
Thanks! On 9 Feb 2009, at 19:39, Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 James Milligan wrote: Sorry if I've missed something but where can you get the files? James www.zleap.net under downloads then under ubuntu. Paul On 9 Feb 2009, at 19:20, Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net wrote: Hi I have created a mini advert type thing thats probably small enough to go in the window of a shop, (e.g newsagent), it has link to the dcglug, but its aimed and promoting ubuntu and more importantly support networks via the lug, (mail discussion list) released as creative commons so you are free to use, edit, improve etc etc. hope it helps file formats .pdf and .odf Paul - -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQhngACgkQaggq1k2FJq0nRgCdFVQGHPw6Gh5oecad8QwW0IZE Bn4AnA4ApDL0YZhOTmFTmucDJno9Mbmm =7ATc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools (UK Marketing!)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I just wish there were computer fairs down here in Devon, there used to be one a few years back but nothing like that now, the nearest thing is a car boot sale. I wonder actually if we'd be able to give away Ubuntu CDs at car boot sales without trading standards thinking we were giving away pirate software? (they don'#t seem to do much about the pirate DVD sellers at least). Yes, my 3 page flyer, well 3 separate flyers stapled together, if you gave people one of these with the cd; it would show that the cd is fully legal and you are not breaking the law by giving copies away. There HAS to be a way of getting some sort of computer fair back in devon, Perhaps we can construct a letter to one of the big computer mags (pcw for example) and ask for some, or simply contact a few organsisers and ask em to bring a fair down, Paul It will take at least another 10 years before that particular lad gets close to a position of influence in an organisation, perhaps 15 years. *That* is the time scale of change, and much longer if it is not driven hard by focussed, determined people. Well hopefully he'll get a good start with FLOSS, he may even be able to encourage his friends to switch too. The experience I had when I was at school and college is that there were a few of us who used to really be into computers in a geeky way (more than playing games) and we'd share PD and shareware stuff, I guess this still happens so if they're sharing FLOSS software then that has to be good. *Now* is a good time to start! Yep, although I guess we may not make so much of a dent against Microsoft and Windows 7, we might be able to target some of the possible upgraders. Rob Good point, - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQidUACgkQaggq1k2FJq1w+gCfd2Od0nS3XvEXFzw7/zHSxYiP pysAn1p2VWuSoXWHW2OuUixfXgk9veO3 =S3Yh -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] computer fairs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I did a google search for uk computer fairs and found the followin site http://www.britishcomputerfairs.com/index.htm there is a contact form, on the site which I tried to use to ask for more fairs here in devon as the nearest one is bristol However the page is broken, as I get invalid recpipent, I looked around on the site, and found the webmasters e-mail so sent an e-mail letting them know of the problem. Once it's fixed (if it gets fixed), perhaps we can lobby them to get some fairs down here in devon. they say london and the south east, not sure how bristol gets classed as the south east, perhaps they are expanding. lets see what happens Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQjOIACgkQaggq1k2FJq3ddwCfdM9TB69+fEtl1CZeqBn3y+gO mrQAnRubMoSkRZvand90RZWRlxau68p1 =6iQZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] BugJam in Birmingham
Just to announce that details are now on the wiki about the Birmingham Venue for the BugJam. I still need to get a few more details, like seating arrangements etc, but please, do sign up on the wiki if interested, espescially if you're interested in leading a session. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GlobalBugJam/Birmingham -- Regards, Martin Mez Meredith signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] £7 laptop in india - runs Linux
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yay http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1134609/India-set-launch-worlds-cheapest-laptop--7.html Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQl6gACgkQaggq1k2FJq0toACdHneha2M68D86o77VX+aiRXxk ZaAAnjylmJHCTeouiPZyz/xDZ6HBh86N =El/U -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] computer fairs
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 8:06 PM, Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I did a google search for uk computer fairs and found the followin site http://www.britishcomputerfairs.com/index.htm there is a contact form, on the site which I tried to use to ask for more fairs here in devon as the nearest one is bristol However the page is broken, as I get invalid recpipent, I looked around on the site, and found the webmasters e-mail so sent an e-mail letting them know of the problem. Once it's fixed (if it gets fixed), perhaps we can lobby them to get some fairs down here in devon. they say london and the south east, not sure how bristol gets classed as the south east, perhaps they are expanding. lets see what happens Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQjOIACgkQaggq1k2FJq3ddwCfdM9TB69+fEtl1CZeqBn3y+gO mrQAnRubMoSkRZvand90RZWRlxau68p1 =6iQZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ http://infopointproject.org/wordpress/ Looks to be a little dead now, but was exactly what you described, I think it was started by Jono and some of the other lugradio guys. Matt. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] £7 laptop in india - runs Linux
On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yay http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1134609/India-set-launch-worlds-cheapest-laptop--7.html Paul - -- Paul Sutton I'm a wee bit dubious about that claim lol! Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] £7 laptop in india - runs Linux
i dont think its going to be that cheap. Especially in a country where a cheapy crappy basic of the shelf nokia will cost you at least Rs2000. Thats like £15 or something! :) 2009/2/9 Chris Rowson christopherrow...@gmail.com On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yay http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1134609/India-set-launch-worlds-cheapest-laptop--7.html Paul - -- Paul Sutton I'm a wee bit dubious about that claim lol! Chris -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] £7 laptop in india - runs Linux
Read about this in the guardian a while back. I agree with chris - any laptop would probably be worth more than that even as scrap. 2009/2/9 Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yay http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1134609/India-set-launch-worlds-cheapest-laptop--7.html Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQl6gACgkQaggq1k2FJq0toACdHneha2M68D86o77VX+aiRXxk ZaAAnjylmJHCTeouiPZyz/xDZ6HBh86N =El/U -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] computer fairs
2009/2/9 Matt Jones m...@mattjones.me.uk: http://infopointproject.org/wordpress/ Looks to be a little dead now, but was exactly what you described, I think it was started by Jono and some of the other lugradio guys. It was indeed kicked off by Jono. It has passed around a few people. SussexLUG did a few computer fairs, we (HantsLUG) also did some a few years ago. I believe Tony Whitmore (Ubuntu UK Podcast HantsLUG ex-Chairman) is hosting the site, but I believe there has been little activity of late. The mailing list has been quiet, for sure. The good news is that one of our very own - Alan Cocks is doing great work in Bracknell, Berkshire. He's probably run more stands at computer fairs than any of the other teams put together! If you want to know anything about running stands at computer fairs, he's your man! :) Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] computer fairs
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 The good news is that one of our very own - Alan Cocks is doing great work in Bracknell, Berkshire. He's probably run more stands at computer fairs than any of the other teams put together! If you want to know anything about running stands at computer fairs, he's your man! :) Cheers, Al. I am sure if one was organised there are enough of us here, on both lists to have a good presence to represent free software. Lets see what happens. Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQpDcACgkQaggq1k2FJq1P2ACeLImSUH2VqjwUW2Dfhb3cEy4L +HsAn0raQKzKnKe34nJjU+imiAJBtXfj =wgi+ -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] computer fairs
2009/2/9 Paul Sutton zl...@zleap.net: I am sure if one was organised there are enough of us here, on both lists to have a good presence to represent free software. I applaud your optimism. Past history indicates this isn't necessarily an accurate prediction of the future. Go with it though, it's certainly worth pursuing. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
[ubuntu-uk] any tool in ubuntu to undelete from a sd card!
Uh oh.I've just deleted important stuff from my g1. Any ubuntu tools I can use to get it back? I know a few in windows but I don't wana have to use that! Thanks javad -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Help get Windows out of schools
I signed the petition as well. I am thinking that the schools'/education system's thinking is a bit out of date. Why teach the children just one OS when there are many choices now in the real world? Not all companies use the same OS. Some use Windows XP, some use Windows Vista, and on servers they have Windows Server. And sometimes even earlier versions of Windows. Plus some use Mac OS X or earlier Mac OS versions. And some use Linux, including in many places on servers. So limiting children's education to just one OS will leave them greatly disadvantaged when they reach the real world. Especially as whatever system they are taught in their early school years may well be completely obsolete by the time they become adults. If I had children, I would encourage them to experiment with different operating systems and tell them that they need to learn a variety in order to be better prepared for the future. Just as it is worthwhile for children to learn more than one language, although the way languages are taught is probably really nowhere near good enough. I learnt French and German at school but cannot fluently use either. In computing, I learnt the BBC Micro, with its card reader. I wrote programs in BASIC and transferred those to filling in boxes for each character on special cards which went into the card reader to feed the program into the computer. By the time I left school and went to university such systems were obsolete and I used a PC with DOS. Now DOS is obsolete, and so on. It is far better to teach the children the fundamentals of computing, and how to use any computer system regardless of which interface is used, so that in the future, when it is all different, they will still be able to use a computer. David King Paul Sutton wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aparently primnary schools are forced to use MS office so the children are ready for what is used in Secondary schools which is I guess a fair argument i guess. And i guess secondaries feel obliged to use MS office as they see it as industry standard. However looking at what happen at the exwick community centre where they children/ Young people and adults there seemed to have little problem finding their way around ubuntu (which looks a lot different to windows), it proves that the children would have no problems going from say open office to Ms office in the secondary school, ( I am only going from what has been said in the e-mails since) I am not an expert, but it seems no matter what justification people try and use for using Windows, there is a way round it, Kids / young people can simply adapt, I am 33 and having used KDE for years, installed ubuntu (using gnome) had no problem with it, ok it take a while to find what I need, but I have 3 menus, applications, places, adn system, so its pretty obvious what each one is for, When we have more write ups, we should have more observations and evidence to back the above up, Paul David King wrote: The other way to get windows out of schools is to remove the glass and replace with bricks :-) David King Vinothan Shankar wrote: I've created a petition to the Prime Minister to make the primary OS in schools free and open source - it can be found at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/nonMSschools. To anyone that points out I should have suggested Ubuntu for Education, the first submission did, but was rejected on the grounds that it was promoting commercial products or services. The petition should probably also have pointed out that schools could keep the same hardware, but petitions there are restricted to 1000 characters including spaces. Please sign. - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQEukACgkQaggq1k2FJq1/5wCgkUjrzWDrrYwX7PP2pTFYoUYb z9MAn3lO7xojGrzIHxyW3qCrwlGKHRVi =NYF3 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] any tool in ubuntu to undelete from a sd card!
On Mon, 9 Feb 2009, javadayaz wrote: Uh oh.I've just deleted important stuff from my g1. Any ubuntu tools Try 'magicrescue' (from searching for 'undelete'). -Paul -- Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] any tool in ubuntu to undelete from a sd card!
First of all, don't do anything to the G1 AT ALL, probably best to whip the battery out. I would recommend Photorec, it's in the repos. Follow the instructions on the website for a good explanation of how to use it. Matt. On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:56 PM, javadayaz javada...@gmail.com wrote: Uh oh.I've just deleted important stuff from my g1. Any ubuntu tools I can use to get it back? I know a few in windows but I don't wana have to use that! Thanks javad -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] any tool in ubuntu to undelete from a sd card!
damn...im gona have to relearn how to install from source. i havent done it for ages! :( lol 2009/2/10 Paul Sladen ubu...@paul.sladen.org On Mon, 9 Feb 2009, javadayaz wrote: Uh oh.I've just deleted important stuff from my g1. Any ubuntu tools Try 'magicrescue' (from searching for 'undelete'). -Paul -- Why do one side of a triangle when you can do all three. Somewhere, GB. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] any tool in ubuntu to undelete from a sd card!
well i took the card out almost straight away. i have also installed test disk aka photorec but that didnt find anything. Its not just pics though its other stuff in there like .3gp videos 2009/2/10 Matt Jones m...@mattjones.me.uk First of all, don't do anything to the G1 AT ALL, probably best to whip the battery out. I would recommend Photorec, it's in the repos. Follow the instructions on the website for a good explanation of how to use it. Matt. On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:56 PM, javadayaz javada...@gmail.com wrote: Uh oh.I've just deleted important stuff from my g1. Any ubuntu tools I can use to get it back? I know a few in windows but I don't wana have to use that! Thanks javad -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] any tool in ubuntu to undelete from a sd card!
ok sorry in my pamic i may have used the app wrong. im running it again!!! :) wish me luck 2009/2/10 javadayaz javada...@gmail.com well i took the card out almost straight away. i have also installed test disk aka photorec but that didnt find anything. Its not just pics though its other stuff in there like .3gp videos 2009/2/10 Matt Jones m...@mattjones.me.uk First of all, don't do anything to the G1 AT ALL, probably best to whip the battery out. I would recommend Photorec, it's in the repos. Follow the instructions on the website for a good explanation of how to use it. Matt. On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:56 PM, javadayaz javada...@gmail.com wrote: Uh oh.I've just deleted important stuff from my g1. Any ubuntu tools I can use to get it back? I know a few in windows but I don't wana have to use that! Thanks javad -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- Javad -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] any tool in ubuntu to undelete from a sd card!
before i hit the hay just wanted to sayyay it worked 2009/2/10 javadayaz javada...@gmail.com ok sorry in my pamic i may have used the app wrong. im running it again!!! :) wish me luck 2009/2/10 javadayaz javada...@gmail.com well i took the card out almost straight away. i have also installed test disk aka photorec but that didnt find anything. Its not just pics though its other stuff in there like .3gp videos 2009/2/10 Matt Jones m...@mattjones.me.uk First of all, don't do anything to the G1 AT ALL, probably best to whip the battery out. I would recommend Photorec, it's in the repos. Follow the instructions on the website for a good explanation of how to use it. Matt. On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:56 PM, javadayaz javada...@gmail.com wrote: Uh oh.I've just deleted important stuff from my g1. Any ubuntu tools I can use to get it back? I know a few in windows but I don't wana have to use that! Thanks javad -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- Javad -- Javad -- Javad -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] £7 laptop in india - runs Linux
$10-laptop proves to be a damp squib http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Hyderabad/10-laptop_proves_to_be_a_damp_squib/articleshow/4072417.cms Picture here http://i.gizmodo.com/5145998/indias-10-laptop-basically-a-big-dumb-joke 2009/2/10 David King linux...@avoura.com From listening to a recent PC Pro podcast, this £7 laptop is not a laptop at all, but just an external storage device of some kind to attach to existing computers. Whatever it is, it will probably have an embedded OS based on Linux. But please do not believe everything you read in the Daily Mail. David King Paul Sutton wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Yay http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1134609/India-set-launch-worlds-cheapest-laptop--7.html Paul - -- Paul Sutton www.zleap.net Support Open and ISO standard file formats ISO 26300 odf http://www.odfalliance.org Next Linux User Group meet : March 7th : 3pm, Shoreline Cafe Paignton -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkmQl6gACgkQaggq1k2FJq0toACdHneha2M68D86o77VX+aiRXxk ZaAAnjylmJHCTeouiPZyz/xDZ6HBh86N =El/U -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
