Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
2007/9/27, Kris Douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 27/09/2007, Tony Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kris, On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 18:23 +0100, Kris Douglas wrote: On 27/09/2007, Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.canonical.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Agreed, but if you were in a situation where you needed a system that could connect to a domain and run an application that was associated with keeping customers money safe, would you spend ages installing an operating system, or would you go get a machine that had something installed and functioning correctly? This argument works for any operating system! If I had a Linux application doing a similar thing, I would want to buy client machines that had Linux pre-installed and just worked. But this is a circular argument. One reason companies go for Microsoft based applications is that they can buy pre-installed clients that just work. It's much harder to do for Linux. Somehow, the circle needs to be broken! Regards, Tony. -- Tony Arnold, IT Security Coordinator, University of Manchester, IT Services Division, Kilburn Building, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL. T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED], H: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Good point, if pcworld stocked Linux systems... -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ I got one word to say: Dell... They are offering 3 models with Ubuntu by default... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
Chris Jones wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, Chris, I'm with you on this. It is hard to see where other EU Directives of a similar nature (for example, the legislation around servicing for motor vehicles by non-franchised dealers) has ACTUALLY led to an improvement for customers. I also have trouble with the economics of No Windows licence means much cheaper PC. The big vendors pay little for their Windows licences - and in some cases make MORE from the CrippleWare fees they charge than they actually have to pay out for the O/S licence - so a fair cost solution would actually make Windows+Crippleware CHEAPER than Linux. Dell are, of course, to be applauded for what they've done. Both in REDUCING the price of a non-Windows PC and providing such an option in the first place. Of course, what I'd REALLY like to see is machines installed dual-booting between Ubuntu and a 30-day trial version of Windows at the end of which, the user either paid an extra £xxx or went with Ubuntu. Regards, Mark -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
On 28/09/2007, Sakjur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/9/28, Mark Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Chris Jones wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, Chris, I'm with you on this. It is hard to see where other EU Directives of a similar nature (for example, the legislation around servicing for motor vehicles by non-franchised dealers) has ACTUALLY led to an improvement for customers. I also have trouble with the economics of No Windows licence means much cheaper PC. The big vendors pay little for their Windows licences - and in some cases make MORE from the CrippleWare fees they charge than they actually have to pay out for the O/S licence - so a fair cost solution would actually make Windows+Crippleware CHEAPER than Linux. Dell are, of course, to be applauded for what they've done. Both in REDUCING the price of a non-Windows PC and providing such an option in the first place. Of course, what I'd REALLY like to see is machines installed dual-booting between Ubuntu and a 30-day trial version of Windows at the end of which, the user either paid an extra £xxx or went with Ubuntu. Regards, Mark -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ That would be awsome! And that that you had to try both... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ You're right... But... I don't see a Dell shop 100metres away from the head office of my company... -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
2007/9/28, Kris Douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 28/09/2007, Sakjur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/9/28, Mark Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Chris Jones wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, Chris, I'm with you on this. It is hard to see where other EU Directives of a similar nature (for example, the legislation around servicing for motor vehicles by non-franchised dealers) has ACTUALLY led to an improvement for customers. I also have trouble with the economics of No Windows licence means much cheaper PC. The big vendors pay little for their Windows licences - and in some cases make MORE from the CrippleWare fees they charge than they actually have to pay out for the O/S licence - so a fair cost solution would actually make Windows+Crippleware CHEAPER than Linux. Dell are, of course, to be applauded for what they've done. Both in REDUCING the price of a non-Windows PC and providing such an option in the first place. Of course, what I'd REALLY like to see is machines installed dual-booting between Ubuntu and a 30-day trial version of Windows at the end of which, the user either paid an extra £xxx or went with Ubuntu. Regards, Mark -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ That would be awsome! And that that you had to try both... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ You're right... But... I don't see a Dell shop 100metres away from the head office of my company... -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ There's no Dell shops, you buy them online... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
On 28/09/2007, Sakjur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/9/28, Kris Douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 28/09/2007, Sakjur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/9/28, Mark Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Chris Jones wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, Chris, I'm with you on this. It is hard to see where other EU Directives of a similar nature (for example, the legislation around servicing for motor vehicles by non-franchised dealers) has ACTUALLY led to an improvement for customers. I also have trouble with the economics of No Windows licence means much cheaper PC. The big vendors pay little for their Windows licences - and in some cases make MORE from the CrippleWare fees they charge than they actually have to pay out for the O/S licence - so a fair cost solution would actually make Windows+Crippleware CHEAPER than Linux. Dell are, of course, to be applauded for what they've done. Both in REDUCING the price of a non-Windows PC and providing such an option in the first place. Of course, what I'd REALLY like to see is machines installed dual-booting between Ubuntu and a 30-day trial version of Windows at the end of which, the user either paid an extra £xxx or went with Ubuntu. Regards, Mark -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ That would be awsome! And that that you had to try both... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ You're right... But... I don't see a Dell shop 100metres away from the head office of my company... -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ There's no Dell shops, you buy them online... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ I know, but if you read up...i was saying that i can walk to pcworld and buy a machine, with windows on it...and then walk to the office, plug it in, and tell the user to log on. -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
2007/9/28, Kris Douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 28/09/2007, Sakjur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/9/28, Kris Douglas [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On 28/09/2007, Sakjur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2007/9/28, Mark Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Chris Jones wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, Chris, I'm with you on this. It is hard to see where other EU Directives of a similar nature (for example, the legislation around servicing for motor vehicles by non-franchised dealers) has ACTUALLY led to an improvement for customers. I also have trouble with the economics of No Windows licence means much cheaper PC. The big vendors pay little for their Windows licences - and in some cases make MORE from the CrippleWare fees they charge than they actually have to pay out for the O/S licence - so a fair cost solution would actually make Windows+Crippleware CHEAPER than Linux. Dell are, of course, to be applauded for what they've done. Both in REDUCING the price of a non-Windows PC and providing such an option in the first place. Of course, what I'd REALLY like to see is machines installed dual-booting between Ubuntu and a 30-day trial version of Windows at the end of which, the user either paid an extra £xxx or went with Ubuntu. Regards, Mark -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ That would be awsome! And that that you had to try both... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ You're right... But... I don't see a Dell shop 100metres away from the head office of my company... -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ There's no Dell shops, you buy them online... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ I know, but if you read up...i was saying that i can walk to pcworld and buy a machine, with windows on it...and then walk to the office, plug it in, and tell the user to log on. -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ My ignorance, sorry! -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
2007/9/28, Mark Harrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Chris Jones wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, Chris, I'm with you on this. It is hard to see where other EU Directives of a similar nature (for example, the legislation around servicing for motor vehicles by non-franchised dealers) has ACTUALLY led to an improvement for customers. I also have trouble with the economics of No Windows licence means much cheaper PC. The big vendors pay little for their Windows licences - and in some cases make MORE from the CrippleWare fees they charge than they actually have to pay out for the O/S licence - so a fair cost solution would actually make Windows+Crippleware CHEAPER than Linux. Dell are, of course, to be applauded for what they've done. Both in REDUCING the price of a non-Windows PC and providing such an option in the first place. Of course, what I'd REALLY like to see is machines installed dual-booting between Ubuntu and a 30-day trial version of Windows at the end of which, the user either paid an extra £xxx or went with Ubuntu. Regards, Mark -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ That would be awsome! And that that you had to try both... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
On Fri, 2007-09-28 at 19:27 +0200, Sakjur wrote: There's no Dell shops, you buy them online... You can buy them in shops too. :) Cheers, Al. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
On Fri, 2007-09-28 at 20:05 +0200, Sakjur wrote: 2007/9/28, Alan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED]: SNIP There's no Dell shops, you buy them online... You can buy them in shops too. :) SNIP Cool! I didn't knew that... where? There is an unconfirmed rumour that they will open 'Apple' style shops on the highstreet* in the UK. As i understand it, you can currently by Dell machines 'off the shelf' in the US 'Walmart' (and some others) and one retailer in Asia. * http://linkpot.net/heartburn/ Kind Regards, Dave Walker signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
2007/9/27, Eddie Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Having read the submission by the Global Institute (PDF) http://www.globalisation.eu/publications/unbundlingmicrosoftwindows.pdf and this scary bit of nonsense Linux to finally kill Windows' http://diary.bluemango.in/?p=110(who wrote this - anybody know?), I'm wondering if Ubuntu-UK should add it's weight to this argument and submit an 'informed' opinion to the debate. What do we think about this proposal? My personal, unbiased opinion (to be qualified later): Is Yes! Yes! Yes! Go for it, Yerp but then I've always been the quiet type :-) Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Hey... EU is evil! They're just like USA! I don't like an United States of Europe... And they also force a lot stupid things... they force our armies in war to defence the inhabitants... The only good thing they ever done is the debate against Microsoft... Have you read that the second leader of EU would like EU to censor some sentances... like: howto build bomb and so on.. That's only my opinion... // Emil -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?[Scanned]
Sakjur wrote: 2007/9/27, Eddie Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Having read the submission by the Global Institute (PDF) http://www.globalisation.eu/publications/unbundlingmicrosoftwindows.pdf and this scary bit of nonsense Linux to finally kill Windows' http://diary.bluemango.in/?p=110(who wrote this - anybody know?), I'm wondering if Ubuntu-UK should add it's weight to this argument and submit an 'informed' opinion to the debate. What do we think about this proposal? My personal, unbiased opinion (to be qualified later): Is Yes! Yes! Yes! Go for it, Yerp but then I've always been the quiet type :-) Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Hey... EU is evil! They're just like USA! I don't like an United States of Europe... And they also force a lot stupid things... they force our armies in war to defence the inhabitants... The only good thing they ever done is the debate against Microsoft... Have you read that the second leader of EU would like EU to censor some sentances... like: howto build bomb and so on.. That's only my opinion... // Emil I would have said comparing the EU to the USA is a bit of a stretch, at least we have a say in the EU. I believe they have also shielded us in the UK from a lot of new draconian laws. When it's a choice between daft and draconian I know which I would pick ;-) But anyway that's a little off subject. My personal opinion is it would be great to septate the OS from the machine and give Ubuntu a chance; but, then I think how would I feel if I went out, brought a toaster and it wouldn't make my toast until I had toasted a dozen pop-tarts :-) Paul -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
Sakjur wrote: 2007/9/27, Eddie Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Having read the submission by the Global Institute (PDF) http://www.globalisation.eu/publications/unbundlingmicrosoftwindows.pdf and this scary bit of nonsense Linux to finally kill Windows' http://diary.bluemango.in/?p=110(who wrote this - anybody know?), I'm wondering if Ubuntu-UK should add it's weight to this argument and submit an 'informed' opinion to the debate. What do we think about this proposal? My personal, unbiased opinion (to be qualified later): Is Yes! Yes! Yes! Go for it, Yerp but then I've always been the quiet type :-) Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Hey... EU is evil! They're just like USA! I don't like an United States of Europe... And they also force a lot stupid things... they force our armies in war to defence the inhabitants... The only good thing they ever done is the debate against Microsoft... Have you read that the second leader of EU would like EU to censor some sentances... like: howto build bomb and so on.. That's only my opinion... // Emil I have no idea where you got the EU army thing from.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_the_European_Union There are loads of defensive pacts about, such as NATO (of which a large number of EU states are members) and the EU has had oversight in some operations but I don't think the EU can force anyone to go to war that's what individual countries Veto's are for. Anyway, back to the point in hand. I'd be completley for the OS being unbundled from sold machines, it should be an option however, with a manufacturer producing a set of disks specific to the machine (so Joe Average just has to pop one cd/dvd into a drive and then it sorts itself out, essentially having a Windows image, a Linux image, a *BSD image etc). Otherwise installing an OS is not going to be a comfortable thing for an average user to do. It would also raise an interesting issue with Apple who only release their OS on their hardware. -Matt Daubney -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?[Scanned]
2007/9/27, Paul Brunt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sakjur wrote: 2007/9/27, Eddie Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Having read the submission by the Global Institute (PDF) http://www.globalisation.eu/publications/unbundlingmicrosoftwindows.pdf and this scary bit of nonsense Linux to finally kill Windows' http://diary.bluemango.in/?p=110(who wrote this - anybody know?), I'm wondering if Ubuntu-UK should add it's weight to this argument and submit an 'informed' opinion to the debate. What do we think about this proposal? My personal, unbiased opinion (to be qualified later): Is Yes! Yes! Yes! Go for it, Yerp but then I've always been the quiet type :-) Eddie -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Hey... EU is evil! They're just like USA! I don't like an United States of Europe... And they also force a lot stupid things... they force our armies in war to defence the inhabitants... The only good thing they ever done is the debate against Microsoft... Have you read that the second leader of EU would like EU to censor some sentances... like: howto build bomb and so on.. That's only my opinion... // Emil I would have said comparing the EU to the USA is a bit of a stretch, at least we have a say in the EU. I believe they have also shielded us in the UK from a lot of new draconian laws. When it's a choice between daft and draconian I know which I would pick ;-) But anyway that's a little off subject. My personal opinion is it would be great to septate the OS from the machine and give Ubuntu a chance; but, then I think how would I feel if I went out, brought a toaster and it wouldn't make my toast until I had toasted a dozen pop-tarts :-) Paul -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ You know that when you got a new toaster you shall let it go without bread 1-2 times before using? :P Of course the EU have done some great thing, but what for? My opinion is that takes some of our independence from us... Emil -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
. It would also raise an interesting issue with Apple who only release their OS on their hardware. -Matt Daubney Ah, but with no OS on a PC maybe apple have an opportunity to compete and thus develop for all PCs - it might well be profitable, Would apple then have the driver issues Linux has? Would unbundling (or bundling a free OS) encourage HW mfrs to create drivers for other OSs and other software suppliers to make their software multi-platform? (especially if linux gets it's act together and it's only necesssary to supply one version for all distros, as is happening with printer drivers.) If MS is unbundled they would still have the advantage due to the fact that they are already so well known and they have huge advertising budgets but this proposal will help level the field somewaht and could be very good for Linux. Eddie. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
Hi Eddie Armstrong wrote: Ah, but with no OS on a PC maybe apple have an opportunity to compete and thus develop for all PCs - it might well be profitable, Apple has no interest in getting OS X on ordinary PCs. If they do that they stop being a hardware company and live and die by sales of OS X. Cheers, -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.canonical.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
2007/9/27, Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi Eddie Armstrong wrote: Ah, but with no OS on a PC maybe apple have an opportunity to compete and thus develop for all PCs - it might well be profitable, Apple has no interest in getting OS X on ordinary PCs. If they do that they stop being a hardware company and live and die by sales of OS X. Cheers, -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.canonical.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ I say: iPod... They live by the iPod... -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
Hi Sakjur wrote: I say: iPod... They live by the iPod... Their music division does produce more revenue than their computing division, but Mac sales are still doing better every quarter. The Mac as a platform would be ruined by making OS X available for all PCs, was my basic point. Cheers, -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.canonical.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 12:28 +0100, Eddie Armstrong wrote: Having read the submission by the Global Institute (PDF) http://www.globalisation.eu/publications/unbundlingmicrosoftwindows.pdf and this scary bit of nonsense Linux to finally kill Windows' http://diary.bluemango.in/?p=110(who wrote this - anybody know?), I'm wondering if Ubuntu-UK should add it's weight to this argument and submit an 'informed' opinion to the debate. What do we think about this proposal? My personal, unbiased opinion (to be qualified later): Is Yes! Yes! Yes! Go for it, Yerp but then I've always been the quiet type :-) Eddie I haven't read the rest of the thread, so i don't know if this has already been suggested, but I think OEMs should be allowed to ship the free, unlicensed 30 day trial of windows with computers, but that they should have to sell actual licenses separately. Then we're happy because we don't have to pay for windows, and windows users are happy because they only need to type in a registration key. Oh and we're also happy because it makes windows users realise just how much they're actually paying for windows. Shops are happy because they can advertise the computer at a lower price. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
No windows in the European union? Want my real opinion? I think we should keep it. Why? Because it works. On 27/09/2007, Alec Wright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 12:28 +0100, Eddie Armstrong wrote: Having read the submission by the Global Institute (PDF) http://www.globalisation.eu/publications/unbundlingmicrosoftwindows.pdf and this scary bit of nonsense Linux to finally kill Windows' http://diary.bluemango.in/?p=110(who wrote this - anybody know?), I'm wondering if Ubuntu-UK should add it's weight to this argument and submit an 'informed' opinion to the debate. What do we think about this proposal? My personal, unbiased opinion (to be qualified later): Is Yes! Yes! Yes! Go for it, Yerp but then I've always been the quiet type :-) Eddie I haven't read the rest of the thread, so i don't know if this has already been suggested, but I think OEMs should be allowed to ship the free, unlicensed 30 day trial of windows with computers, but that they should have to sell actual licenses separately. Then we're happy because we don't have to pay for windows, and windows users are happy because they only need to type in a registration key. Oh and we're also happy because it makes windows users realise just how much they're actually paying for windows. Shops are happy because they can advertise the computer at a lower price. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
This is kind of along the same lines, this guy got his money back for all the extras: http://www.hitechsquad.com/2007/09/26/france-e-31185-remboursement-for-ms-ta x/ Regards, Daniel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alec Wright Sent: 27 September 2007 16:40 To: British Ubuntu Talk Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute? On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 12:28 +0100, Eddie Armstrong wrote: Having read the submission by the Global Institute (PDF) http://www.globalisation.eu/publications/unbundlingmicrosoftwindows.pdf and this scary bit of nonsense Linux to finally kill Windows' http://diary.bluemango.in/?p=110(who wrote this - anybody know?), I'm wondering if Ubuntu-UK should add it's weight to this argument and submit an 'informed' opinion to the debate. What do we think about this proposal? My personal, unbiased opinion (to be qualified later): Is Yes! Yes! Yes! Go for it, Yerp but then I've always been the quiet type :-) Eddie I haven't read the rest of the thread, so i don't know if this has already been suggested, but I think OEMs should be allowed to ship the free, unlicensed 30 day trial of windows with computers, but that they should have to sell actual licenses separately. Then we're happy because we don't have to pay for windows, and windows users are happy because they only need to type in a registration key. Oh and we're also happy because it makes windows users realise just how much they're actually paying for windows. Shops are happy because they can advertise the computer at a lower price. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.canonical.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
On 27/09/2007, Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.canonical.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Agreed, but if you were in a situation where you needed a system that could connect to a domain and run an application that was associated with keeping customers money safe, would you spend ages installing an operating system, or would you go get a machine that had something installed and functioning correctly? -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
Kris, On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 18:23 +0100, Kris Douglas wrote: On 27/09/2007, Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.canonical.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Agreed, but if you were in a situation where you needed a system that could connect to a domain and run an application that was associated with keeping customers money safe, would you spend ages installing an operating system, or would you go get a machine that had something installed and functioning correctly? This argument works for any operating system! If I had a Linux application doing a similar thing, I would want to buy client machines that had Linux pre-installed and just worked. But this is a circular argument. One reason companies go for Microsoft based applications is that they can buy pre-installed clients that just work. It's much harder to do for Linux. Somehow, the circle needs to be broken! Regards, Tony. -- Tony Arnold, IT Security Coordinator, University of Manchester, IT Services Division, Kilburn Building, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL. T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED], H: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
Hi Kris Douglas wrote: Agreed, but if you were in a situation where you needed a system that could connect to a domain and run an application that was associated with keeping customers money safe, would you spend ages installing an operating system, That is a bit trickier. Personally I would always reinstall a server by hand. For a desktop machine though, OEM pre-installs are clearly the way to go. Cheers, -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.canonical.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] EU-topia? No Windows in EU ? Should we contribute?
On 27/09/2007, Tony Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kris, On Thu, 2007-09-27 at 18:23 +0100, Kris Douglas wrote: On 27/09/2007, Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kris Douglas wrote: No windows in the European union? No it's just a very misguided suggestion that no PC should ship with an OS pre-installed. It just means more pain for users and no gain for anyone else. Cheers, -- Chris Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.canonical.com -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Agreed, but if you were in a situation where you needed a system that could connect to a domain and run an application that was associated with keeping customers money safe, would you spend ages installing an operating system, or would you go get a machine that had something installed and functioning correctly? This argument works for any operating system! If I had a Linux application doing a similar thing, I would want to buy client machines that had Linux pre-installed and just worked. But this is a circular argument. One reason companies go for Microsoft based applications is that they can buy pre-installed clients that just work. It's much harder to do for Linux. Somehow, the circle needs to be broken! Regards, Tony. -- Tony Arnold, IT Security Coordinator, University of Manchester, IT Services Division, Kilburn Building, Oxford Road, Manchester M13 9PL. T: +44 (0)161 275 6093, F: +44 (0)870 136 1004, M: +44 (0)773 330 0039 E: [EMAIL PROTECTED], H: http://www.man.ac.uk/Tony.Arnold -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/ Good point, if pcworld stocked Linux systems... -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UKTeam/
