Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Bruno Girin]

On 22 August 2013 21:04, Muñiz Piniella, Andrés wrote:

> you?
> 
>  Colin
> 
> >>> High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford,
> Milton
> >>> Keynes but nothing I would consider local.
> >>
> >> OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :)
> >>
> >> Colin
> >>
> > I think you made my point very nicely. The initial steps should be very
> local. Once I have a venue, date and a few attendees then it's worth
> announcing it places like here. I'm sure it will happen some time soon.
> >
> I'll take the opportunity then to announce that
> I run little workshops every tuesday evening in Ham. Between Richmond and
> Kingston upon Thames.
> We help people with IT, encourage FLOSS and do little projects for the
> comunity (garduino, reprap 3d printer).
>
> Might open more days if it proves popular.
>
> Anybody is wellcome to join.
> http://www.meetup.com/KingsofHack/
> And
> http://www.hamunitedgroup.org.uk/
>

Cool! I should come and visit one day: Ealing to Ham is a nice cycle ride
:-) I can't do tomorrow but will try to find some time in September.

Bruno
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Alan Pope]

On 25 August 2013 08:18, Gareth France  wrote:
> So
> far there is one person in Wycombe who says the distance puts them off and a
> few who go to Reading who say don't count on us but we might possibly stop
> by sometimes.
>

I wouldn't take too much notice of how many people reply on the
mailing list when asked questions. There's hundreds of people on many
LUG mailing lists, the vast majority of which are lurkers.

Cheers,
Al.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

On 25/08/13 07:52, MARTIN DIXON wrote:
For what it's worth!  I used to live in Reading and would not have 
considered Wycombe too far toshare (contributeand benefit) 
Of course there will always be the possibility of crossover and I'd like 
to do something that compliments the Reading group, rather than replaces 
it. So far there is one person in Wycombe who says the distance puts 
them off and a few who go to Reading who say don't count on us but we 
might possibly stop by sometimes.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[MARTIN DIXON]

For what it's worth!  I used to live in Reading and would not have considered 
Wycombe too far toshare (contributeand benefit)   -
I started a Singles group on speck many years ago and have been happily married 
for over 30 years as a result - all things are possible!
Good luck, Martin




 From: Gareth France 
To: UK Ubuntu Talk  
Sent: Saturday, 24 August 2013, 22:10
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!
 

On 24/08/13 21:48, Alan Pope wrote:
> On 24 August 2013 21:06, Gareth France  wrote:
>> I often do when I can afford the fuel and I'm already a member of the list
>> where my suggestions were vaguely acknowledged and dismissed as pointless.
>>
>> The problem is anyone who is target audience for a Wycombe group isn't a
>> member there because it's too far.
>>
> I think you may be going about it the wrong way round. Rather than
> canvas opinion, just do it.
>
> "Build it and they will come" to paraphrase a film.
>
> What seems to work well is just organise an event & let everyone know
> when and where it's happening. If it's a regular event, rather than a
> one off, then stick to it. Go to the same well published and organised
> venue every week/month/fortnight or whatever interval you have
> decided. Publish details clearly somewhere, let everyone know exactly
> what it is or isn't.
>
> It sometimes takes a few goes for people to come along and it become
> "successful" (however you measure that).
>
> I wouldn't let a few people who say they can't/won't come dent your 
> enthusiasm.
>
> Cheers,
> Al.
>
I agree, it makes sense that people in Reading might not see the point 
of a meet here. They are getting everything they need right there. No 
doubt they never consider where the gaps might be. However I've wanted a 
clear idea in my head of what exactly I'll be promoting the meet as and 
at least a few people confirmed as interested. If at all possible I'd 
like to avoid days where I'm the only one who shows up!

I've got a lot going on right now (child on the way this weekend!) so 
I'm thinking the first week of October.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

On 24/08/13 21:48, Alan Pope wrote:

On 24 August 2013 21:06, Gareth France  wrote:

I often do when I can afford the fuel and I'm already a member of the list
where my suggestions were vaguely acknowledged and dismissed as pointless.

The problem is anyone who is target audience for a Wycombe group isn't a
member there because it's too far.


I think you may be going about it the wrong way round. Rather than
canvas opinion, just do it.

"Build it and they will come" to paraphrase a film.

What seems to work well is just organise an event & let everyone know
when and where it's happening. If it's a regular event, rather than a
one off, then stick to it. Go to the same well published and organised
venue every week/month/fortnight or whatever interval you have
decided. Publish details clearly somewhere, let everyone know exactly
what it is or isn't.

It sometimes takes a few goes for people to come along and it become
"successful" (however you measure that).

I wouldn't let a few people who say they can't/won't come dent your enthusiasm.

Cheers,
Al.

I agree, it makes sense that people in Reading might not see the point 
of a meet here. They are getting everything they need right there. No 
doubt they never consider where the gaps might be. However I've wanted a 
clear idea in my head of what exactly I'll be promoting the meet as and 
at least a few people confirmed as interested. If at all possible I'd 
like to avoid days where I'm the only one who shows up!


I've got a lot going on right now (child on the way this weekend!) so 
I'm thinking the first week of October.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Alan Pope]

On 24 August 2013 21:06, Gareth France  wrote:
> I often do when I can afford the fuel and I'm already a member of the list
> where my suggestions were vaguely acknowledged and dismissed as pointless.
>
> The problem is anyone who is target audience for a Wycombe group isn't a
> member there because it's too far.
>

I think you may be going about it the wrong way round. Rather than
canvas opinion, just do it.

"Build it and they will come" to paraphrase a film.

What seems to work well is just organise an event & let everyone know
when and where it's happening. If it's a regular event, rather than a
one off, then stick to it. Go to the same well published and organised
venue every week/month/fortnight or whatever interval you have
decided. Publish details clearly somewhere, let everyone know exactly
what it is or isn't.

It sometimes takes a few goes for people to come along and it become
"successful" (however you measure that).

I wouldn't let a few people who say they can't/won't come dent your enthusiasm.

Cheers,
Al.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

On 24/08/13 19:33, Stuart Ward wrote:

Gareth

Come along to the sclug meeting in Reading, discuss your plans, make 
friends, recruit fellow LUGers, Join the mail list for sclug, that 
would be a good place to announce and discuss your plans.


http://www.sclug.org.uk/

Stuart
I often do when I can afford the fuel and I'm already a member of the 
list where my suggestions were vaguely acknowledged and dismissed as 
pointless.


The problem is anyone who is target audience for a Wycombe group isn't a 
member there because it's too far.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Stuart Ward]

Gareth

Come along to the sclug meeting in Reading, discuss your plans, make
friends, recruit fellow LUGers, Join the mail list for sclug, that would be
a good place to announce and discuss your plans.

http://www.sclug.org.uk/

Stuart


-- Stuart Ward M +44 7782325143


On 23 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France  wrote:

> On 23/08/13 20:19, pete smout wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> Where are you? If we are close then I will help out!
>> always happy to meet like minded people;)
>>
> High Wycombe, South Bucks.
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

On 23/08/13 20:19, pete smout wrote:

Hi,
Where are you? If we are close then I will help out!
always happy to meet like minded people;)

High Wycombe, South Bucks.

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[pete smout]

On 22/08/13 15:59, Gareth France wrote:
> 
>>> It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems
>>> that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals
>>> have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that
>>> my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.
>>>
>> I second this,  I have come across the get lost and use google brigade
>> even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences,  with
>> something.  its really off putting,.   I have however found this forum
>> friendly and helpful so  in this context it is OTHER forums where I have
>> had problems.  but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community
>> that looks bad.
>>
>> Paul
>>
> I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I
> feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people
> can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention
> this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of negative
> comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the idea at all
> and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of laziness and
> 'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm more than happy
> to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have any proof that
> anybody else will even turn up!


Hi,
Where are you? If we are close then I will help out!
always happy to meet like minded people ;)

> We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these forums,
> chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand (whichever
> floats your boat) and so should keep it positive, constructive and
> supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need to drag the tone
> down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public way, keep it 1 on 1.
> 
Agreed 100%

Peter Smout


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

On 22/08/13 22:57, Paul Sutton wrote:

I am beginning to think promoting it as a Linux meeting may put people
off,  comparing how many goto the exeter pi jams to exeter lug meets
(far more at the former),  so it may be worth looking in to how you name
it,  computer group meeting, covers Windows, Mac, Linux, raspberry pi,
could attract people,
I have toyed with how to promote it and I'm currently leaning towards 
the idea of promoting as a LUG within the linux community and as 
something more general to the wider public. Then run it as something 
fairly flexible with a FOSS bias. I don't think anything I organise 
would be PI/kids orientated. The venue I currently have in mind is a 
pub. Though I would be thrilled if someone else were to pick up on that 
and perhaps run something side by side.


The pub I have in mind has a second bar that would be suitable for use, 
free wifi and we should be able to plug in. So I suspect we would meet 
in the downstairs bar and move up if the numbers warranted it. Starting 
off as purely social but I'd hope that as we got some regulars there 
they may bring their interests and talents to it and we may find a more 
hands on agenda.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Paul Sutton]

On 22/08/13 15:59, Gareth France wrote:
>
>>> It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems
>>> that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals
>>> have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that
>>> my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.
>>>
>> I second this,  I have come across the get lost and use google brigade
>> even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences,  with
>> something.  its really off putting,.   I have however found this forum
>> friendly and helpful so  in this context it is OTHER forums where I have
>> had problems.  but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community
>> that looks bad.
>>
>> Paul
>>
> I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I
> feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people
> can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention
> this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of
> negative comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the
> idea at all and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of
> laziness and 'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm
> more than happy to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have
> any proof that anybody else will even turn up!
>
> We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these
> forums, chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand
> (whichever floats your boat) and so should keep it positive,
> constructive and supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need
> to drag the tone down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public
> way, keep it 1 on 1.
>

Yeah devon ./ cornwall is a bit like that,  i organize meetings in
Paignton once a month,

1 just find a venue,  and organise a date time,  then promote it,   i do
that with the paignton meets it varies between just me, 2 of us, or a
group of 5, 10 or 10+ depending on when the meeting is.

It is helpful to say what the venue provides, as in food / drink, is it
child friendly (remember pubs may not allow under 14's in and sometimes
people may bring their kids due to no choice or its the kids who may
have the interest

is there wifi,  (free),  you usually have to buy something and then ask
for the wifi info.

parking (see if you can provide info on parking)

power sockets etc, (good for meetings,)

Can people plug in things like laptops etc,  trust me some lug meets we
end up with tables full of wires, cables, robots, laptops and other bits
of tech,  lol

I am beginning to think promoting it as a Linux meeting may put people
off,  comparing how many goto the exeter pi jams to exeter lug meets
(far more at the former),  so it may be worth looking in to how you name
it,  computer group meeting, covers Windows, Mac, Linux, raspberry pi, 
could attract people, 

will the venue be ok to plug in laptops etc

so maybe set it up differently, http://plymouthwebdev.org/ group for
example have a simple webpage and a monthly meeting buit you just follow
them on twitter,  it may be easier,  and people then join that group  So
it may be a case of something like that,  so you're not Linux specific,
but can suggest a Open source bias (ruby is open source for example)  so
you then appeal to a wider audience,  if you want to attract raspberry
pi users,  make sure the venue is family friendly (and have a policy
from the start that kids come with parents) they should anyway,

print a poster with computer group name, meeting here,  mine has a pic
of tux,  then make sure you have something by a table where you are, 
let staff know too so they can direct people, maybe wear a t-shirt that
looks geeky

Once you have a group meeting socially then take it from there.

I am tied up with rugby for most of the year but I arrange the meet on
the 2nd satuday regardless, the group still meet up without me and do
their own thing,  but its regular,

Hope this helps and good luck,  don't be dis-hartened by lack of
attendance initially,  once you get going advertise in local papers, put
up posters and maybe even let schools know as there are technicians and
teaches who are getting in to all this too.

Paul

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--
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Software freedom day event - 21st September 2013  - http://exeter.lug.org.uk/

I am committed to safeguarding children, young people and vulnerable groups and 
expect any school or establishment I am involved with to share this commitment. 



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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Muñiz Piniella , Andrés]

you?

 Colin

>>> High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton
>>> Keynes but nothing I would consider local.
>>
>> OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :)
>>
>> Colin
>>
> I think you made my point very nicely. The initial steps should be very
local. Once I have a venue, date and a few attendees then it's worth
announcing it places like here. I'm sure it will happen some time soon.
>
I'll take the opportunity then to announce that
I run little workshops every tuesday evening in Ham. Between Richmond and
Kingston upon Thames.
We help people with IT, encourage FLOSS and do little projects for the
comunity (garduino, reprap 3d printer).

Might open more days if it proves popular.

Anybody is wellcome to join.
http://www.meetup.com/KingsofHack/
And
http://www.hamunitedgroup.org.uk/
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

On 22/08/13 20:13, Colin Law wrote:

On 22 August 2013 18:33, Gareth France  wrote:

On 22/08/13 17:21, Colin Law wrote:

On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France  wrote:

Gareth,

There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date /
time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list
so I
assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you
could
add the event to the loco team portal.

Laura


Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been
focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on
the
nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way
like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the
whole
their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little
confidence.
It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes.

As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone
knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it
started.

Where are you?

Colin


High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton
Keynes but nothing I would consider local.

OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :)

Colin

I think you made my point very nicely. The initial steps should be very 
local. Once I have a venue, date and a few attendees then it's worth 
announcing it places like here. I'm sure it will happen some time soon.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Colin Law]

On 22 August 2013 18:33, Gareth France  wrote:
> On 22/08/13 17:21, Colin Law wrote:
>>
>> On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France  wrote:

 Gareth,

 There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date /
 time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list
 so I
 assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you
 could
 add the event to the loco team portal.

 Laura

>>> Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been
>>> focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on
>>> the
>>> nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way
>>> like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the
>>> whole
>>> their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little
>>> confidence.
>>> It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes.
>>>
>>> As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone
>>> knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it
>>> started.
>>
>> Where are you?
>>
>> Colin
>>
> High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton
> Keynes but nothing I would consider local.

OK, no good me applying to join from 150 miles away then :)

Colin

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

On 22/08/13 17:21, Colin Law wrote:

On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France  wrote:

Gareth,

There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date /
time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I
assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could
add the event to the loco team portal.

Laura


Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been
focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on the
nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way
like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the whole
their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little confidence.
It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes.

As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone
knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started.

Where are you?

Colin

High Wycombe, South Bucks. There are meetings in Reading, Oxford, Milton 
Keynes but nothing I would consider local.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Colin Law]

On 22 August 2013 16:31, Gareth France  wrote:
>
>> Gareth,
>>
>> There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date /
>> time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list so I
>> assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps you could
>> add the event to the loco team portal.
>>
>> Laura
>>
> Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been
> focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on the
> nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of the way
> like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on the whole
> their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a little confidence.
> It just seems a shame people aren't more positive sometimes.
>
> As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone
> knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started.

Where are you?

Colin

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

Gareth,

There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date 
/ time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing 
list so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, 
perhaps you could add the event to the loco team portal.


Laura

Yes thank you, I'm aware I could do that. However my efforts have been 
focused at a more local level for the moment. I do wonder if anyone on 
the nationwide list would be interested in attending something out of 
the way like this. I'm just saying that where I have spoken to people on 
the whole their comments tend to sap away a little enthusiasm and a 
little confidence. It just seems a shame people aren't more positive 
sometimes.


As for my meeting. I will pull out all the stops and make sure everyone 
knows what's going on once I have a few confirmed locals to get it started.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Laura Czajkowski]

On 22/08/13 15:59, Gareth France wrote:




I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I 
feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people 
can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention 
this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of 
negative comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the 
idea at all and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of 
laziness and 'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm 
more than happy to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have 
any proof that anybody else will even turn up!


We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these 
forums, chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand 
(whichever floats your boat) and so should keep it positive, 
constructive and supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need 
to drag the tone down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public 
way, keep it 1 on 1.




Gareth,

There is nothing to stop you organising it, sending a link out to date / 
time of the meet up here if you so chose,  it's an Ubuntu mailing list 
so I assume the meet up would be Ubuntu related of some kind, perhaps 
you could add the event to the loco team portal.


Laura

--
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https://wiki.ubuntu.com/czajkowski
LoCo Council Member
Community Council Member


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems
that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals
have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that
my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.


I second this,  I have come across the get lost and use google brigade
even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences,  with
something.  its really off putting,.   I have however found this forum
friendly and helpful so  in this context it is OTHER forums where I have
had problems.  but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community
that looks bad.

Paul

I am in a dead area for user groups and would like to start one up. I 
feel it would be a great help to have something physical where people 
can go for help, support and encouragement. However whenever I mention 
this and try to push for it I just get hit with a whole lot of negative 
comments and lethargy. Nobody seems willing to support the idea at all 
and I think it's a real shame. There seems to be a lot of laziness and 
'let somebody else deal with it' attitude going on. I'm more than happy 
to set one up but it's not easy when you don't have any proof that 
anybody else will even turn up!


We all need to remember at all times that when we talk on these forums, 
chat rooms, web pages that we are representing the brand (whichever 
floats your boat) and so should keep it positive, constructive and 
supportive at all times. If any of us feels the need to drag the tone 
down we really shouldn't be doing so in such a public way, keep it 1 on 1.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Paul Sutton]

On 21/08/13 22:02, Gareth France wrote:
> On 21/08/13 21:59, Dave Walker wrote:
>> Gareth, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience.  I haven't
>> looked back at the thread, but please be assured that isn't the spirit
>> of this mailing list.  Please do stay around :)
>>
>> On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France  wrote:
>>> On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:
>> 
>>> Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be
>>> managers
>>> in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and
>>> proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can.
>> Why else would someone choose to be a manager, without these perks?
>>
> It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems
> that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals
> have the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that
> my enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.
>
I second this,  I have come across the get lost and use google brigade
even when asking for advice based on peoples personal experiences,  with
something.  its really off putting,.   I have however found this forum
friendly and helpful so  in this context it is OTHER forums where I have
had problems.  but end of the day it's still the GNU/Linux community
that looks bad.

Paul

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Colin Law]

On 21 August 2013 22:02, Gareth France  wrote:
> On 21/08/13 21:59, Dave Walker wrote:
>>
>> Gareth, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience.  I haven't
>> looked back at the thread, but please be assured that isn't the spirit
>> of this mailing list.  Please do stay around :)
>>
>> On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France  wrote:
>>>
>>> On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:
>>
>> 
>>>
>>> Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be
>>> managers
>>> in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and
>>> proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can.
>>
>> Why else would someone choose to be a manager, without these perks?
>>
> It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems that
> when you require the help the most is when certain individuals have the
> least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that my enthusiasm
> for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.

I still don't understand what this is about.  I can't see anywhere on
this thread where another poster was criticised.  Can someone please
point me to the relevant post?  Perhaps my copy went into spam or
something.

Colin

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[pete smout]

On 21/08/13 22:02, Gareth France wrote:
> On 21/08/13 21:59, Dave Walker wrote:
>> Gareth, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience.  I haven't
>> looked back at the thread, but please be assured that isn't the spirit
>> of this mailing list.  Please do stay around :)
>>
>> On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France
>>  wrote:
>>> On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:
>> 
>>> Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be
>>> managers
>>> in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and
>>> proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can.
>> Why else would someone choose to be a manager, without these perks?
>>
> It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems
> that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals have
> the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that my
> enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.
> 

I read this list most days, and when I take into account that tone of
voice is very hard to get over in text form I have found most people to
be kind and helpful 99% of the time, of course we all have bad days ;)
everyone here has taught me so much and it is only recently that I have
felt confidant enough in my own abilities to help answer questions
(bearing in mind that most still fall beyond my comfort zone).
I hope no-one is ever put off asking a question no matter how trivial as
that is how I learn, and if the 'experts' feel any question is beneath
their level, the please leave it to us enthusiastic amateurs and correct
us when we go astray of if there is an easier / better / safer method of
getting the desired result. I feel this is the way forward and it
benefits all on this list, freeing up the 'experts' time so they can be
more productive and new users get help at their level, safe in the
knowledge that any completely wrong answers will be pointed out within a
reasonable time.

If anyone disagrees with this then I will not take any offence at being
told why I am mistaken.

Thanks again to *all* on this list for all the help advice given (not
just to me) over the years, without you all I am almost ashamed to say I
would probably still be a windoze user and never have seen the light ;))

regards

Pete Smout




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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

On 21/08/13 21:59, Dave Walker wrote:

Gareth, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience.  I haven't
looked back at the thread, but please be assured that isn't the spirit
of this mailing list.  Please do stay around :)

On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France  wrote:

On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:



Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be managers
in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and
proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can.

Why else would someone choose to be a manager, without these perks?

It's not just here. I have seen this in other online forums. It seems 
that when you require the help the most is when certain individuals have 
the least patience. I shall continue to lurk but I'm afraid that my 
enthusiasm for engaging in conversation is not what it once was.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Dave Walker]

Gareth, I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience.  I haven't
looked back at the thread, but please be assured that isn't the spirit
of this mailing list.  Please do stay around :)

On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France  wrote:
> On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:

> Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be managers
> in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and
> proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can.

Why else would someone choose to be a manager, without these perks?

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Dave Walker 
Engineering Manager,
Ubuntu Server

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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Phill Whiteside]

slide rules? I recall when sitting my maths 'O' level having to write out
the proof of the quadratic equation [1] as I could never remember it, but
knew how to 'make' it. I'm one of those who when I understand 'how' and
'why' something works, I can carry it to other areas instead of just "Does
not compute" which seems to afflict the recent schoolong, especially in
what was jokingly called "computer studies" :)

Regards,

Phill.
1. http://www.basic-mathematics.com/proof-of-the-quadratic-formula.html
P.S. Don't ask me to do it these days!


On 21 August 2013 21:16, Gareth France  wrote:

> On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:
>
>> On 21/08/13 16:59, Gareth France wrote:
>>
>>  On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a
>>> number of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly minions. Not
>>> so long back after starting a thread I was shot down in an unforgivably
>>> harsh manner by people who made assumptions about me based on absolutely no
>>> evidence and proceeded to trample all over my opinion and my self esteem.
>>>
>>> I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an expert,
>>> not everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be careful how you
>>> respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage mass adoption and as
>>> many new users as possible. Insulting them, depressing them, making them
>>> feel small, they will only leave.
>>>
>>
>> That unfortunately applies to many hobbies and interests where 'experts',
>> whether 'real' or 'armchair', are resident on forums and mailing lists.
>>
>> When it comes to IT related matters, whether Windows or Linux based, I
>> have always considered myself to be an enthusiastic amateur. In fact I'm
>> quite proud of that bearing in mind that even pocket calculators didn't
>> exist when I was at school let alone PCs!
>>
> Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be managers
> in real life always find their way to the top in charity committees and
> proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because they can.
>
>
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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gareth France]

On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:

On 21/08/13 16:59, Gareth France wrote:

On the whole I have stopped posting to this group since there are a 
number of people who are obviously on pedestals above us lowly 
minions. Not so long back after starting a thread I was shot down in 
an unforgivably harsh manner by people who made assumptions about me 
based on absolutely no evidence and proceeded to trample all over my 
opinion and my self esteem.


I have said it before and I'll say it again, not everyone is an 
expert, not everyone understands things that are obvious to you. Be 
careful how you respond as we are supposed to be wanting to encourage 
mass adoption and as many new users as possible. Insulting them, 
depressing them, making them feel small, they will only leave.


That unfortunately applies to many hobbies and interests where 
'experts', whether 'real' or 'armchair', are resident on forums and 
mailing lists.


When it comes to IT related matters, whether Windows or Linux based, I 
have always considered myself to be an enthusiastic amateur. In fact 
I'm quite proud of that bearing in mind that even pocket calculators 
didn't exist when I was at school let alone PCs!
Very true. much in the same way as bossy boots who could never be 
managers in real life always find their way to the top in charity 
committees and proceed to make everyone's life a misery just because 
they can.


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Re: [ubuntu-uk] Not everyone is an expert!

[Gordon Burgess-Parker]

On 21/08/13 17:45, Paul White wrote:
>
> When it comes to IT related matters, whether Windows or Linux based, I
> have always considered myself to be an enthusiastic amateur. 

Ditto!


> In fact I'm quite proud of that bearing in mind that even pocket
> calculators didn't exist when I was at school let alone PCs!

Ah. The good old slide rule and log tables

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