Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy
Mwaami Kasangwawo Can you please be kind to repost where I posted the Buganda Constitution? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 10:18 AM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Mulindwa, its good to know. To be honest, I don't quite understand what you want from me. What I said in my previous posting should not be news to you. You see, just a couple of months ago YOU posted on this net, under one of your stupid subject titles, a document headed: Constitution of Buganda under a federal arrangement. Let me quote a short passage from that document: 1 (4) (a) The local administrations within Buganda jurisdiction shall do away with the districts and (b) All local administrations shall revert back to Ssaza (county), Gombolola (sub-county), Muluka (borough) and Kyalo (village). Districts and Zones classifications shall no longer apply to Buganda Kingdom. As you can see this was not an invention of mine (but I thought you would support it since you are against the RC system anyway). I therefore fail to understand your complete surprise at what I said. I just wish you would read the stuff you post here before you expose your ignorance. Kasangwawo From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:41:12 -0400 Kasangwawo No not at all I opposed the RC system and publicly right from 1984/5 to today I have changed nothing. But that posting was intended to show the loop holes that happens in the postings you do. (You should thank me for stopping that sentence right there) Now that I have answered to your question, can you respond to my posting? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 9:02 AM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Mulindwa, what's your problem ? Are you now all of a sudden in support of the RC system ? Kasangwawo From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:23:49 -0400 Kasangwawo - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. Before you are excused I want to get this very clear. So you are asking NRM to give you Federalism, and you are telling NRM that if it gives you federalism, there will never be an RC system in Buganda/Uganda? So you are saying that the introduction of Federalism will be the death of the RC system? How did you decide this, is it information you have from the NRM secretariat or it is your own decision you have made through your Federism fantasy? The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue
Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy
Jonah, Forward your email to Mike Pike, the chief editor. He is ignorant of our History. His email is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] J. Ssenyange --- From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:00:02 + I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue which is also part of the essence of the federal system of governance. So, regardless of the nonsense emanating from the corner of the National Political Commissar (oh, how reminiscent of the communist times), under a true federal system, Buganda would collect taxes. You seem to forget that under a unitary system as we have now, a peasant in Buganda might also rightly ask why his tax payments go to Lango or Jopadholaland. - I don't know where you got the information that Baganda don't like federo, but the only record available (the Odoki comm. report) points to the opposite, and it was done when the LC system was in existence. In any case, LC officials do not make up the majority of the population. Dear Editor, federo, far from being a fantasy, is the future of a more prosperous and peaceful Uganda. You only need to get educated about it. Kasangwawo. PS. How come you do not give any comments on the other topic you started with - the lifting of term limits for the presidency ? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 Federo is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even necessary? Fourthly, this administration will have to be funded either by local taxation or by increased taxation by the central government. If the central government pays, a peasant in West Nile might ask why his tax payments go to the Kabaka of Buganda. Fifthly, how many Baganda truly want federo? Many elected LC officials favour loose cooperation under a charter, as Busoga is attempting, but oppose the idea of an administrative federal kingdom. Federo has become a fantasy, a dream for a return to the 1950s and 1960s when people were more prosperous and society more orderly. But it is impossible to turn the clock back. If the kingdom returns, Baganda will still find themselves in todays Uganda where the world coffee price is lower than the 1960s and KCC cannot fix the roads. It is not worth changing the Constitution for the sake of an illusion. Published on: Tuesday, 26th August, 2003 Email this article to a friend. Mitayo Potosi _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE
Fwd: Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy
Mwaami Pike, I am forwarding some comments I sent to 'ugandanet' concerning the New Vision editorial which appeared on 26 August 2003 (attached below). I would have thought that a national newspaper like New Vision would make an effort to follow what Ugandans of different political leanings have to say about several issues concerning their country. The presence of at least one member of your staff on a discussion list such as 'ugandanet' should, to my mind, be of paramount importance. I was therefore surprised at the lack of knowledge displayed by the writer of the editorial in question. But, just read for yourself. Kasangwawo From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:00:02 + I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue which is also part of the essence of the federal system of governance. So, regardless of the nonsense emanating from the corner of the National Political Commissar (oh, how reminiscent of the communist times), under a true federal system, Buganda would collect taxes. You seem to forget that under a unitary system as we have now, a peasant in Buganda might also rightly ask why his tax payments go to Lango or Jopadholaland. - I don't know where you got the information that Baganda don't like federo, but the only record available (the Odoki comm. report) points to the opposite, and it was done when the LC system was in existence. In any case, LC officials do not make up the majority of the population. Dear Editor, federo, far from being a fantasy, is the future of a more prosperous and peaceful Uganda. You only need to get educated about it. Kasangwawo. PS. How come you do not give any comments on the other topic you started with - the lifting of term limits for the presidency ? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 Federo is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even necessary? Fourthly, this administration will have to be funded either by local taxation or by increased taxation by the central government. If the central government pays, a peasant in West Nile might ask why his tax payments go to the Kabaka of Buganda. Fifthly, how many Baganda truly want federo? Many elected LC officials favour loose cooperation under a charter, as Busoga is attempting, but oppose the idea of an administrative federal kingdom. Federo has become a fantasy, a dream for a return to the 1950s and 1960s when people were more prosperous and society more orderly. But it is impossible to turn the clock back. If the kingdom returns, Baganda will still find themselves in todays Uganda where the world coffee price is lower than the 1960s and KCC cannot fix the roads. It is not worth changing the Constitution for the sake of an illusion. Published on: Tuesday, 26th August, 2003 Email this article to a friend. Mitayo Potosi _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This service is hosted on the Infocom
Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy
Thanks a lot. I certainly will. From: ssenya nyange [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2003 13:15:09 -0400 Jonah, Forward your email to Mike Pike, the chief editor. He is ignorant of our History. His email is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] J. Ssenyange --- From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:00:02 + I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue which is also part of the essence of the federal system of governance. So, regardless of the nonsense emanating from the corner of the National Political Commissar (oh, how reminiscent of the communist times), under a true federal system, Buganda would collect taxes. You seem to forget that under a unitary system as we have now, a peasant in Buganda might also rightly ask why his tax payments go to Lango or Jopadholaland. - I don't know where you got the information that Baganda don't like federo, but the only record available (the Odoki comm. report) points to the opposite, and it was done when the LC system was in existence. In any case, LC officials do not make up the majority of the population. Dear Editor, federo, far from being a fantasy, is the future of a more prosperous and peaceful Uganda. You only need to get educated about it. Kasangwawo. PS. How come you do not give any comments on the other topic you started with - the lifting of term limits for the presidency ? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 Federo is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even necessary? Fourthly, this administration will have to be funded either by local taxation or by increased taxation by the central government. If the central government pays, a peasant in West Nile might ask why his tax payments go to the Kabaka of Buganda. Fifthly, how many Baganda truly want federo? Many elected LC officials favour loose cooperation under a charter, as Busoga is attempting, but oppose the idea of an administrative federal kingdom. Federo has become a fantasy, a dream for a return to the 1950s and 1960s when people were more prosperous and society more orderly. But it is impossible to turn the clock back. If the kingdom returns, Baganda will still find themselves in todays Uganda where the world coffee price is lower than the 1960s and KCC cannot fix the roads. It is not worth changing the Constitution for the sake of an illusion. Published on: Tuesday, 26th August, 2003 Email this article to a friend. Mitayo Potosi _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy
Mulindwa, its good to know. To be honest, I don't quite understand what you want from me. What I said in my previous posting should not be news to you. You see, just a couple of months ago YOU posted on this net, under one of your stupid subject titles, a document headed: Constitution of Buganda under a federal arrangement. Let me quote a short passage from that document: 1 (4) (a) The local administrations within Buganda jurisdiction shall do away with the districts and (b) All local administrations shall revert back to Ssaza (county), Gombolola (sub-county), Muluka (borough) and Kyalo (village). Districts and Zones classifications shall no longer apply to Buganda Kingdom. As you can see this was not an invention of mine (but I thought you would support it since you are against the RC system anyway). I therefore fail to understand your complete surprise at what I said. I just wish you would read the stuff you post here before you expose your ignorance. Kasangwawo From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 19:41:12 -0400 Kasangwawo No not at all I opposed the RC system and publicly right from 1984/5 to today I have changed nothing. But that posting was intended to show the loop holes that happens in the postings you do. (You should thank me for stopping that sentence right there) Now that I have answered to your question, can you respond to my posting? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 9:02 AM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Mulindwa, what's your problem ? Are you now all of a sudden in support of the RC system ? Kasangwawo From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:23:49 -0400 Kasangwawo - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. Before you are excused I want to get this very clear. So you are asking NRM to give you Federalism, and you are telling NRM that if it gives you federalism, there will never be an RC system in Buganda/Uganda? So you are saying that the introduction of Federalism will be the death of the RC system? How did you decide this, is it information you have from the NRM secretariat or it is your own decision you have made through your Federism fantasy? The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue which is also part of the essence of the federal system of governance. So, regardless of the nonsense emanating from the corner of the National Political Commissar (oh, how reminiscent of the communist times), under a true federal system, Buganda would collect taxes. You seem to forget that under a unitary system as we have now, a peasant in Buganda might also rightly ask why his tax payments go to Lango or Jopadholaland. - I don't know where you got the information that Baganda don't like federo, but the only record available (the Odoki comm. report) points to the opposite, and it was done when the LC system was in existence
Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy
Kasangwawo No not at all I opposed the RC system and publicly right from 1984/5 to today I have changed nothing. But that posting was intended to show the loop holes that happens in the postings you do. (You should thank me for stopping that sentence right there) Now that I have answered to your question, can you respond to my posting? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 9:02 AM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Mulindwa, what's your problem ? Are you now all of a sudden in support of the RC system ? Kasangwawo From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:23:49 -0400 Kasangwawo - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. Before you are excused I want to get this very clear. So you are asking NRM to give you Federalism, and you are telling NRM that if it gives you federalism, there will never be an RC system in Buganda/Uganda? So you are saying that the introduction of Federalism will be the death of the RC system? How did you decide this, is it information you have from the NRM secretariat or it is your own decision you have made through your Federism fantasy? The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue which is also part of the essence of the federal system of governance. So, regardless of the nonsense emanating from the corner of the National Political Commissar (oh, how reminiscent of the communist times), under a true federal system, Buganda would collect taxes. You seem to forget that under a unitary system as we have now, a peasant in Buganda might also rightly ask why his tax payments go to Lango or Jopadholaland. - I don't know where you got the information that Baganda don't like federo, but the only record available (the Odoki comm. report) points to the opposite, and it was done when the LC system was in existence. In any case, LC officials do not make up the majority of the population. Dear Editor, federo, far from being a fantasy, is the future of a more prosperous and peaceful Uganda. You only need to get educated about it. Kasangwawo. PS. How come you do not give any comments on the other topic you started with - the lifting of term limits for the presidency ? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 'Federo' is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country
ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy
Kasangwawo - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. Before you are excused I want to get this very clear. So you are asking NRM to give you Federalism, and you are telling NRM that if it gives you federalism, there will never be an RC system in Buganda/Uganda? So you are saying that the introduction of Federalism will be the death of the RC system? How did you decide this, is it information you have from the NRM secretariat or it is your own decision you have made through your Federism fantasy? The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue which is also part of the essence of the federal system of governance. So, regardless of the nonsense emanating from the corner of the National Political Commissar (oh, how reminiscent of the communist times), under a true federal system, Buganda would collect taxes. You seem to forget that under a unitary system as we have now, a peasant in Buganda might also rightly ask why his tax payments go to Lango or Jopadholaland. - I don't know where you got the information that Baganda don't like federo, but the only record available (the Odoki comm. report) points to the opposite, and it was done when the LC system was in existence. In any case, LC officials do not make up the majority of the population. Dear Editor, federo, far from being a fantasy, is the future of a more prosperous and peaceful Uganda. You only need to get educated about it. Kasangwawo. PS. How come you do not give any comments on the other topic you started with - the lifting of term limits for the presidency ? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 'Federo' is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even necessary? Fourthly, this administration will have to be funded either by local taxation or by increased taxation by the central government. If the central government pays, a peasant in West Nile might ask why his tax payments go to the Kabaka of Buganda. Fifthly, how many Baganda truly want federo? Many elected LC officials favour loose cooperation under a charter, as Busoga is attempting, but oppose the idea of an administrative federal kingdom. Federo has become a fantasy, a dream for a return to the 1950s and 1960s when people were more prosperous and society more orderly. But it is impossible to turn the clock back. If the kingdom returns, Baganda will still find themselves in today's Uganda where the world coffee price is lower than the 1960s and KCC cannot fix the roads. It is not worth changing the Constitution for the sake of an illusion. Published on: Tuesday, 26th
Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy
Jonah Kasangwao, In your PS, you stated about the New Vision's editorial "... How come you do not give any comments on the other topic you started with - the lifting of term limits for the presidency ? ..." It's because this is an NRM organ and the editorshave NO VISION! y From: "jonah kasangwawo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:00:02 + I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue which is also part of the essence of the federal system of governance. So, regardless of the nonsense emanating from the corner of the National Political Commissar (oh, how reminiscent of the communist times), under a true federal system, Buganda would collect taxes. You seem to forget that under a unitary system as we have now, a peasant in Buganda might also rightly ask why his tax payments go to Lango or Jopadholaland. - I don't know where you got the information that Baganda don't like federo, but the only record available (the Odoki comm. report) points to the opposite, and it was done when the LC system was in existence. In any case, LC officials do not make up the majority of the population. Dear Editor, federo, far from being a fantasy, is the future of a more prosperous and peaceful Uganda. You only need to get educated about it. Kasangwawo. PS. How come you do not give any comments on the other topic you started with - the lifting of term limits for the presidency ? From: "Mitayo Potosi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 Federo is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even necessary? Fourthly, this administration will have to be funded either by local taxation or by increased taxation by the central government. If the central government pays, a peasant in West Nile might ask why his tax payments go to the Kabaka of Buganda. Fifthly, how many Baganda truly want federo? Many elected LC officials favour loose cooperation under a charter, as Busoga is attempting, but oppose the idea of an administrative federal kingdom. Federo has become a fantasy, a dream for a return to the 1950s and 1960s when people were more prosperous and society more orderly. But it is impossible to turn the clock back. If the kingdom returns, Baganda will still find themselves in todays Uganda where the world coffee price is lower than the 1960s and KCC cannot fix the roads. It is not worth changing the Constitution for the sake of an illusion. Published on: Tuesday, 26th August, 2003 Email this article to a friend. Mitayo Potosi _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy
Mulindwa, what's your problem ? Are you now all of a sudden in support of the RC system ? Kasangwawo From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:23:49 -0400 Kasangwawo - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. Before you are excused I want to get this very clear. So you are asking NRM to give you Federalism, and you are telling NRM that if it gives you federalism, there will never be an RC system in Buganda/Uganda? So you are saying that the introduction of Federalism will be the death of the RC system? How did you decide this, is it information you have from the NRM secretariat or it is your own decision you have made through your Federism fantasy? The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: jonah kasangwawo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:00 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue which is also part of the essence of the federal system of governance. So, regardless of the nonsense emanating from the corner of the National Political Commissar (oh, how reminiscent of the communist times), under a true federal system, Buganda would collect taxes. You seem to forget that under a unitary system as we have now, a peasant in Buganda might also rightly ask why his tax payments go to Lango or Jopadholaland. - I don't know where you got the information that Baganda don't like federo, but the only record available (the Odoki comm. report) points to the opposite, and it was done when the LC system was in existence. In any case, LC officials do not make up the majority of the population. Dear Editor, federo, far from being a fantasy, is the future of a more prosperous and peaceful Uganda. You only need to get educated about it. Kasangwawo. PS. How come you do not give any comments on the other topic you started with - the lifting of term limits for the presidency ? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 'Federo' is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even necessary? Fourthly, this administration will have to be funded either by local taxation or by increased taxation by the central government. If the central government pays, a peasant in West Nile might ask why his tax payments go to the Kabaka of Buganda. Fifthly, how many Baganda truly want federo? Many elected LC officials favour loose cooperation under a charter, as Busoga is attempting, but oppose the idea of an administrative federal kingdom. Federo has become a fantasy, a dream for a return to the 1950s and 1960s when people were more prosperous and society more orderly
Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy
Musaazi Actually it is good that you mention the open ness we have in Uganda today, for I had just read a posting from Andrew kayiira, and actually Tumwebaze is posting very shortly, that is true NRM democracy thanks to Musaazi. Now help me here, how will Uganda Federalism cure tribalism which is still rampant in Canada? And I am not here to kill the discussion of federalism, all I am saying is that let us do it right, let Ugandans be given a chance to discuss it, let them get out of the camps let them be allowed to go home and live a normal life then let all of us discuss it. If we reach an understanding then let us take that document to an elected Uganda government. Just a word of caution, if you see that other Ugandans are not involved, may be it is not among the urgent issues on their table, have you thought about that? Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 6:13 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy I think you are insidiously mis-stating the facts when you say 'buganda asked for Kampala and Uganda Revenue Authority, as usual your statements are designed to incite and divide rather than unite and heal. Given the nonchalant attitude of the other regions on the issue, it appears Buganda has been forced to go it alone. Anyway i am not in support of federalism because Buganda is pushing for it, rather i see it as a remedy to most of our global problems as a nation such as, tribalism, nepotism and despotism. This ought to be the focus, not killing the issue just because you have an axe to grind with Buganda and Museveni and in the process throwing away the baby with the bathwater. For even allowing the dialogue to start the government should be applauded, their motives irrespective. Netters can you remember another government in Uganda where dialogue on national issues was so broad, free and unsensored, both at home and abroad? Where you have free expression of ideas from both sides of an issue without feeling that your life was in eminent danger? If that isn't progress then i don't know what is. From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:23:18 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi You are using a wrong terminology here, what we have in Uganda today is not a negotiation of federalism, it is a Buganda attack on all national institutions for her own benefit. An act that Ugandans have vehemently refused. And I will give you examples (1) Mengo asked for Kampala which it knew was Uganda's capital and built by Ugandans. When Ugandans refused it Mengo said if we do not get Kampala we do not take that federalism (2) They then asked for Uganda Revenue Authority, the government said No, Mengo responded that with out it they do not want federalism. And I can go on and on with such examples of unrealistic requests. Can you tell me one instance where Buganda's request was refused and Mengo moved on? The formula is either give us this or we are out of here. Secondly I do not even think that Buganda has a right to negotiate with NRM on how to install this federalism, in fact the smart thing NRM should have done would have been to send Buganda back to Mengo and ask them to negotiate with other units, then all of them to come back to Uganda government with a finished document, for there is no way Uganda government can negotiate with pieces. But NRM would have done that if it was interested in putting real federalism in Uganda, what NRM wants today is Buganda's vote for the sad term, and if giving them a half baked federalism is the bait, so be it. Remember you are dealing with very shrewd people. Lastly some of us are wondering whether NRM has even the authority to negotiate the fate of our nation. Remember they came to power by force of arms they were never elected to come to power, and since then they failed to even turn into a political party, we still have a Resistance Council which to now we do not know who elected it, running our nation. And that Council understands its limitations that is why you see that they do not make national decisions which will be internationally recognised, for they know that they will not. An example is the failure to establish a Uganda Army. For they know that they can not commission officers. How can they turn a nation from Unitary to federalism? Those are questions Mengo should have asked before they claimed ownership on Uganda Revenue Authority. But hey it is all a fantasy!! Be well Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy
Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy
I must admit that I've never found the New Vision editorials brilliant, but this one was one of the worst I've read. It was written from a position of ignorance and assumptions. Here just a few questions/comments to the editor: - What sort of dominance are you talking about - political, economic or what ? - Where did you get the idea that officials in the Federal State of Buganda will be appointed by the Kabaka ? - You ask what will happen to LCs. Excuse me, where have you been ? There will be no LCs in Buganda under federal governance. We have our long-tested councils such as Ssaza, Muluka, Ggombolola councils. Consequently, there will be no additional layer of administration. - Your fourth point does not make any sense. At the core of federalism is the sharing of power between the Federal (central) government and State (regional) governments. Underlying this responsibility is the fiscal issue which is also part of the essence of the federal system of governance. So, regardless of the nonsense emanating from the corner of the National Political Commissar (oh, how reminiscent of the communist times), under a true federal system, Buganda would collect taxes. You seem to forget that under a unitary system as we have now, a peasant in Buganda might also rightly ask why his tax payments go to Lango or Jopadholaland. - I don't know where you got the information that Baganda don't like federo, but the only record available (the Odoki comm. report) points to the opposite, and it was done when the LC system was in existence. In any case, LC officials do not make up the majority of the population. Dear Editor, federo, far from being a fantasy, is the future of a more prosperous and peaceful Uganda. You only need to get educated about it. Kasangwawo. PS. How come you do not give any comments on the other topic you started with - the lifting of term limits for the presidency ? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 Federo is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even necessary? Fourthly, this administration will have to be funded either by local taxation or by increased taxation by the central government. If the central government pays, a peasant in West Nile might ask why his tax payments go to the Kabaka of Buganda. Fifthly, how many Baganda truly want federo? Many elected LC officials favour loose cooperation under a charter, as Busoga is attempting, but oppose the idea of an administrative federal kingdom. Federo has become a fantasy, a dream for a return to the 1950s and 1960s when people were more prosperous and society more orderly. But it is impossible to turn the clock back. If the kingdom returns, Baganda will still find themselves in todays Uganda where the world coffee price is lower than the 1960s and KCC cannot fix the roads. It is not worth changing the Constitution for the sake of an illusion. Published on: Tuesday, 26th August, 2003 Email this article to a friend. Mitayo Potosi _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy
emmanuel, Now I can spare time to read your postings because of your improved writing, good boy. Now you need to work on your paragraphs, to give some fresh air to your messages. y From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 16:12:20 -0500 Whoever was responsible for this editorial, does not understand the concept of federalism. First of all how does he know that the final federal system agreed upon will take the shape he is outlining (talk about puting the cart before the horse). The final system will depend on negotiations which will involve a lot of tradeoffs and compromises, it's not about 'winner takes all'. Secondly, the Primeminister does not have to be the Kabaka (there doesn't even need to be a prime minister). Federalism will help spread development around the country, new city capitals will spring up and along with them jobs, institutions of learning and investements. Federalism will also help to reduce the concentration of power at the center which will on the long run enhance democracy. As for taxes, well a tax sharing and allocation formular will be part of the negotiations, this is why i said that the more the number of regions involved in the negotiations the better for the whole country. Right now everybody is only hearing the Buganda proposal because other regions have not formaly and in an organized fashion, put forward their proposals. The other regions should stop wining and come with ideas, that is what democracy is all about, isn't it, democracy lovers? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 Federo is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even necessary? Fourthly, this administration will have to be funded either by local taxation or by increased taxation by the central government. If the central government pays, a peasant in West Nile might ask why his tax payments go to the Kabaka of Buganda. Fifthly, how many Baganda truly want federo? Many elected LC officials favour loose cooperation under a charter, as Busoga is attempting, but oppose the idea of an administrative federal kingdom. Federo has become a fantasy, a dream for a return to the 1950s and 1960s when people were more prosperous and society more orderly. But it is impossible to turn the clock back. If the kingdom returns, Baganda will still find themselves in todays Uganda where the world coffee price is lower than the 1960s and KCC cannot fix the roads. It is not worth changing the Constitution for the sake of an illusion. Published on: Tuesday, 26th August, 2003 Email this article to a friend. Mitayo Potosi _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy
Mwaami Musaazi You are using a wrong terminology here, what we have in Uganda today is not a negotiation of federalism, it is a Buganda attack on all national institutions for her own benefit. An act that Ugandans have vehemently refused. And I will give you examples (1) Mengo asked for Kampala which it knew was Uganda's capital and built by Ugandans. When Ugandans refused it Mengo said if we do not get Kampala we do not take that federalism (2) They then asked for Uganda Revenue Authority, the government said No, Mengo responded that with out it they do not want federalism. And I can go on and on with such examples of unrealistic requests. Can you tell me one instance where Buganda's request was refused and Mengo moved on? The formula is either give us this or we are out of here. Secondly I do not even think that Buganda has a right to negotiate with NRM on how to install this federalism, in fact the smart thing NRM should have done would have been to send Buganda back to Mengo and ask them to negotiate with other units, then all of them to come back to Uganda government with a finished document, for there is no way Uganda government can negotiate with pieces. But NRM would have done that if it was interested in putting real federalism in Uganda, what NRM wants today is Buganda's vote for the sad term, and if giving them a half baked federalism is the bait, so be it. Remember you are dealing with very shrewd people. Lastly some of us are wondering whether NRM has even the authority to negotiate the fate of our nation. Remember they came to power by force of arms they were never elected to come to power, and since then they failed to even turn into a political party, we still have a Resistance Council which to now we do not know who elected it, running our nation. And that Council understands its limitations that is why you see that they do not make national decisions which will be internationally recognised, for they know that they will not. An example is the failure to establish a Uganda Army. For they know that they can not commission officers. How can they turn a nation from Unitary to federalism? Those are questions Mengo should have asked before they claimed ownership on Uganda Revenue Authority. But hey it is all a fantasy!! Be well Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 5:12 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Whoever was responsible for this editorial, does not understand the concept of federalism. First of all how does he know that the final federal system agreed upon will take the shape he is outlining (talk about puting the cart before the horse). The final system will depend on negotiations which will involve a lot of tradeoffs and compromises, it's not about 'winner takes all'. Secondly, the Primeminister does not have to be the Kabaka (there doesn't even need to be a prime minister). Federalism will help spread development around the country, new city capitals will spring up and along with them jobs, institutions of learning and investements. Federalism will also help to reduce the concentration of power at the center which will on the long run enhance democracy. As for taxes, well a tax sharing and allocation formular will be part of the negotiations, this is why i said that the more the number of regions involved in the negotiations the better for the whole country. Right now everybody is only hearing the Buganda proposal because other regions have not formaly and in an organized fashion, put forward their proposals. The other regions should stop wining and come with ideas, that is what democracy is all about, isn't it, democracy lovers? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 'Federo' is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even
Re: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy
I think you are insidiously mis-stating the facts when you say 'buganda asked for Kampala and Uganda Revenue Authority, as usual your statements are designed to incite and divide rather than unite and heal. Given the nonchalant attitude of the other regions on the issue, it appears Buganda has been forced to go it alone. Anyway i am not in support of federalism because Buganda is pushing for it, rather i see it as a remedy to most of our global problems as a nation such as, tribalism, nepotism and despotism. This ought to be the focus, not killing the issue just because you have an axe to grind with Buganda and Museveni and in the process throwing away the baby with the bathwater. For even allowing the dialogue to start the government should be applauded, their motives irrespective. Netters can you remember another government in Uganda where dialogue on national issues was so broad, free and unsensored, both at home and abroad? Where you have free expression of ideas from both sides of an issue without feeling that your life was in eminent danger? If that isn't progress then i don't know what is. From: Mulindwa Edward [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 06:23:18 -0400 Mwaami Musaazi You are using a wrong terminology here, what we have in Uganda today is not a negotiation of federalism, it is a Buganda attack on all national institutions for her own benefit. An act that Ugandans have vehemently refused. And I will give you examples (1) Mengo asked for Kampala which it knew was Uganda's capital and built by Ugandans. When Ugandans refused it Mengo said if we do not get Kampala we do not take that federalism (2) They then asked for Uganda Revenue Authority, the government said No, Mengo responded that with out it they do not want federalism. And I can go on and on with such examples of unrealistic requests. Can you tell me one instance where Buganda's request was refused and Mengo moved on? The formula is either give us this or we are out of here. Secondly I do not even think that Buganda has a right to negotiate with NRM on how to install this federalism, in fact the smart thing NRM should have done would have been to send Buganda back to Mengo and ask them to negotiate with other units, then all of them to come back to Uganda government with a finished document, for there is no way Uganda government can negotiate with pieces. But NRM would have done that if it was interested in putting real federalism in Uganda, what NRM wants today is Buganda's vote for the sad term, and if giving them a half baked federalism is the bait, so be it. Remember you are dealing with very shrewd people. Lastly some of us are wondering whether NRM has even the authority to negotiate the fate of our nation. Remember they came to power by force of arms they were never elected to come to power, and since then they failed to even turn into a political party, we still have a Resistance Council which to now we do not know who elected it, running our nation. And that Council understands its limitations that is why you see that they do not make national decisions which will be internationally recognised, for they know that they will not. An example is the failure to establish a Uganda Army. For they know that they can not commission officers. How can they turn a nation from Unitary to federalism? Those are questions Mengo should have asked before they claimed ownership on Uganda Revenue Authority. But hey it is all a fantasy!! Be well Em The Mulindwas Communication Group With Yoweri Museveni, Uganda is in anarchy Groupe de communication Mulindwas avec Yoweri Museveni, l'Ouganda est dans l'anarchie - Original Message - From: emmanuel musaazi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 5:12 PM Subject: Re: ugnet_: 'Federo' is a fantasy Whoever was responsible for this editorial, does not understand the concept of federalism. First of all how does he know that the final federal system agreed upon will take the shape he is outlining (talk about puting the cart before the horse). The final system will depend on negotiations which will involve a lot of tradeoffs and compromises, it's not about 'winner takes all'. Secondly, the Primeminister does not have to be the Kabaka (there doesn't even need to be a prime minister). Federalism will help spread development around the country, new city capitals will spring up and along with them jobs, institutions of learning and investements. Federalism will also help to reduce the concentration of power at the center which will on the long run enhance democracy. As for taxes, well a tax sharing and allocation formular will be part of the negotiations, this is why i said that the more the number of regions involved in the negotiations the better for the whole country
RE: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy
Very good advice. Gracias Lugemwa, F.N. Ed Kironde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Once the editor of The New Vision separates federo from kingdoms andlooks at it as a way of sharing power with regions or states, he will becloser to unravel the complexity of federalism.Once federo is re-ushered in, the editor does not need to worry aboutthe democratically elected LCs at whatever the level - it will be a newleaf it will all be in the constitution. To answer he editor's questionas how many Baganda who want federo, I stand to be counted and theeditor can easily sponsor a survey of the Baganda ho want federo byputting the survey through Bukedde, feel it out and ask people to mailit back to him. Not all Baganda will read Bukedde or even respond, butcan use a number of models to test the survey.---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0. 510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003This service is hosted on the Infocom networkhttp://www.infocom.co.ug Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
Re: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy
Whoever was responsible for this editorial, does not understand the concept of federalism. First of all how does he know that the final federal system agreed upon will take the shape he is outlining (talk about puting the cart before the horse). The final system will depend on negotiations which will involve a lot of tradeoffs and compromises, it's not about 'winner takes all'. Secondly, the Primeminister does not have to be the Kabaka (there doesn't even need to be a prime minister). Federalism will help spread development around the country, new city capitals will spring up and along with them jobs, institutions of learning and investements. Federalism will also help to reduce the concentration of power at the center which will on the long run enhance democracy. As for taxes, well a tax sharing and allocation formular will be part of the negotiations, this is why i said that the more the number of regions involved in the negotiations the better for the whole country. Right now everybody is only hearing the Buganda proposal because other regions have not formaly and in an organized fashion, put forward their proposals. The other regions should stop wining and come with ideas, that is what democracy is all about, isn't it, democracy lovers? From: Mitayo Potosi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:35:19 + Editorial : newvision 26/8/2003 Federo is a fantasy CABINET HAS decided to push for the lifting of term limits for the presidency and a return to federo. However, a representative of the Buganda kingdom has responded that the two issues should be delinked. He is right. The two issues are both too complex to consider together. In particular the restoration of federo, or a federal kingdom, is risky. Firstly, the dominance of the Buganda kingdom at independence created a political imbalance that destabilised the country. Secondly, a federal kingdom is not the most progressive form of government. As head of state, the Kabaka will appoint chiefs, ministers and officials. What will happen to the authority of democratically elected LC5 and LC3 officials? Thirdly, is an additional layer of administration in Buganda even necessary? Fourthly, this administration will have to be funded either by local taxation or by increased taxation by the central government. If the central government pays, a peasant in West Nile might ask why his tax payments go to the Kabaka of Buganda. Fifthly, how many Baganda truly want federo? Many elected LC officials favour loose cooperation under a charter, as Busoga is attempting, but oppose the idea of an administrative federal kingdom. Federo has become a fantasy, a dream for a return to the 1950s and 1960s when people were more prosperous and society more orderly. But it is impossible to turn the clock back. If the kingdom returns, Baganda will still find themselves in todays Uganda where the world coffee price is lower than the 1960s and KCC cannot fix the roads. It is not worth changing the Constitution for the sake of an illusion. Published on: Tuesday, 26th August, 2003 Email this article to a friend. Mitayo Potosi _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
RE: ugnet_: Federo is a fantasy
Once the editor of The New Vision separates federo from kingdoms and looks at it as a way of sharing power with regions or states, he will be closer to unravel the complexity of federalism. Once federo is re-ushered in, the editor does not need to worry about the democratically elected LCs at whatever the level - it will be a new leaf it will all be in the constitution. To answer he editor's question as how many Baganda who want federo, I stand to be counted and the editor can easily sponsor a survey of the Baganda ho want federo by putting the survey through Bukedde, feel it out and ask people to mail it back to him. Not all Baganda will read Bukedde or even respond, but can use a number of models to test the survey. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.510 / Virus Database: 307 - Release Date: 8/14/2003 This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
