Re: [UC] Historic Commission Rules Against Concept of Hotel Project,

[Frank]

I completely agree. Besides, building a 10-story hotel "around" the  
mansion is destroying it anyway, in my opinion.


Also, there has been some discussion about the type of hotel this is  
supposed to be. I remember someone saying it would be good for long- 
term guests because the hotel would have suites with kitchens. This  
would make it attractive to visitors who are in town because a family  
member is hospitalized, for instance. In my experience that's not a  
boutique hotel. A boutique is more about luxury and personal services  
like an Ian Schrager designer hotel. Exactly what kind of hotel is  
this supposed to be?


Frank

 “When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and  
carrying a cross.”

--Sinclair Lewis

On Oct 24, 2007, at 01:07 AM, KAREN ALLEN wrote:

No one building so important that it's worth destroying the rest of  
the neighborhood to do it.


So, Melani,  I'll put the questions to you:  would you want Penn  
and Lussenhop building a 10 story hotel in the 1000 block of South  
Farragut Street? How do you justify destroying the streetscape of  
an entire area in order to "save" one property?

RE: [UC] Historic Commission Rules Against Concept of Hotel Project,

[KAREN ALLEN]

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:46:53 -0400Subject: Re: [UC] 
Historic Commission Rules Against Concept of Hotel Project, as now shown>I 
don't recall the 2 committee members in favor of the project >saying >anything 
remotely like Karen has written above.  >Various members remarked favorably 
about the removal of >the 1960s additions which surround and obscure the 
>Italianate building now.  They were definitely in favor of the >restoration of 
that building and said so repeatedly.  That may >be what Karen meant to convey 
in her report. If you dispute my recollection, fine. But please don't tell 
people what I MEANT to say.  I already said what I MEANT to say.   

 ... So does the idea that this property would become a showplace, with staff 
not only to watch over their own guests, but also to take care of the 
long-neglected corner of 40th & Pine.
 
I thought that was the reason we needed UCD? 
 
 
> I'll also note that each of the UC folks who spoke against the project owns 
> >and renovates his/her own properties without having to consult with the rest 
> >of us or the Historical Commission - and I don't have to consult with the HC 
> >either.   That's correct. I spoke against the project today.  And I did 
> renovate a property in 2003-2004 at 23rd and Fitzwater for which Melani was 
> my buyer's agent, so that's how she knows that.  And as I discussed with 
> Melani at the time, I selected that building in large part to "rescue" its 
> many original 19th Century features, because I knew that  otherwise some 
> other rehabber would have come along and gutted it.  And no, I didn't have to 
> consult with the Historical Commission for that project because I never 
> attempted or even imagined erecting a 10 story building over, around, or 
> through a block of two story homes.  Because I had sufficient common sense 
> not to buy a property that required putting 115 units in a one-unit space in 
> order to make it financially feasible. And because I would never dream of 
> ruining everyone else's quality of life just to satisfy my own bottom line. I 
> would never disrespect my neighbors that way.
  Also, I don't recall any of the UC opponents saying even one kind word about 
the developers' plan to save the Italianate building on the site.  
MY testimony was that a ten story hotel was out of character, out of scale and 
would have a devestating effect on the REST of the neighborhood.  That building 
would be visible from all over and would damage the fabric of the REST of the 
neighborhood. What good is it to "save" 400 South 40th Street, and in the 
process destroy 4000 Pine Street, or 400 South 41st Street, and on and on? I 
take particular pride in the fact that none other than John Gallery, Executive 
Director of the Preservation Alliance, and the dean of the local preservation 
community, confirmed every point that I made.  He urged the committee to 
analyze the proposal in light of three criteria:  would the hotel proposal be 
compatible in size, in scale, and in character with both the original mansion 
and the neighborhood, and concluded that the hotel would not meet any of the 
three criteria. Is he wrong, too? Are the four committee members wrong? >Their 
testimony was all "go build it somewhere else," or "don't build it."  >They 
didn't address what would happen to the Italianate building if the >developers 
were to go away.Penn owns that building.  Where are they planning on going?  So 
now Penn, with all of its BILLIONS in fundraising prowess and endowment funds, 
bought a building but cannot restore it without having to destroy everyone 
else's quality of life to do it?  Penn couldn't restore that building as an 
upscale guest house for its visiting dignataries, akin to the home that Amy 
Gutman occupies on Walnut?  
The reallity is that Penn's attempt to put a hotel, which incidentally could be 
converted into a dorm later on down the road, didn't fly, so now they will have 
to go to Plan B.
 
And as I recall, no one suggested that the world as we know it would have ended 
if another group of developers couldn't ram an unpopular project down the 
community's throat:  remember the 4508 Chestnut Street homeless shelter? How 
did that one turn out?  MY interest was in saving the neighborhood from 
irresponsible development that would cause people like Lussenhop to put up 10 
story buildings wherever he could squeeze them. MY interest was in preventing 
Penn or Penn surrogates from buying properties, then claiming that the ONLY way 
to save them is by doing things that causes everyone else to suffer.   No one 
building so important that it's worth destroying the rest of the neighborhood 
to do it.  So, Melani,  I'll put the questions to you:  would you want Penn and 
Lussenhop building a 10 story hotel in the 1000 block of South Farragut Street? 
How do you justify destroying the streetscape of an entire area in order to 
"save" one property?

Re: [UC] Historic Commission Rules Against Concept of Hotel Project, as now shown

[anm]

(Andrew, can you recall better, did anyone said they thought
> the
> HOTEL would be a great benefit to the community?)

I'd have to look at a transcript (or have some video!) to be sure, but I do
think the two committee-people who voted to approve felt that it was the
restoration of the mansion that would be the benefit to the community.  They
all kept returning to that point, that restoring the building would be great. 
I think the differences among them were whether so large a building was an
appropriate trade-off to get the historically listed property restored.  I
think the question of whether it's a hotel or a ten-story bowling alley falls
mostly outside the reach of this particular committee.  I believe one or two of
them may have said as much.

Andrew

You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] Historic Commission Rules Against Hotel Project

[Kimm Tynan]

You took the words right out of my mouth.


On 10/23/07 6:01 PM, "Frank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Did they happen to say exactly *how* the community would benefit?
> 
> 
>  
> Frankus
> Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.
> 
>  
> 
> On Oct 23, 2007, at 05:41 PM, KAREN ALLEN wrote:
> 
>> The two members who voted in favor of the project stated that the proposed
>> hotel would be a great benefit to the community.
> 
> 

Re: [UC] architectural committee report

[pmuyehara]

 Al,
??? Do me a favor and stop baiting Melanie and then making us watch your 
exchanges.? It looks like there may be some SHCA board members on the list; why 
not let them reply?

Paul


 


 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 5:20 pm
Subject: Re: [UC] architectural committee report
















In a message dated 10/23/2007 4:43:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


It was 
  asserted that the Spruce Hill Civic Ass. zoning
committee held "two open 
  and public forums" about
Penn's plan.? Mr Barry Grosbach was present 
  but did
not correct this or speak.? 

Some of our neighbors 
  spoke against this and Melani
Lamond spoke in favor.?? 








Barry isn't a member of this listserv, so maybe we can ask Melani to find 
out when SHCA zoning committee held the two open and public forums, and how 
they 
publicized them. We're apparently not tuned in to the right wavelengths or, 
surely, someone on this list would have known about them and posted the 
information.


?


Would you be so kind as to?find out and let us know, Melani?? 

?


Always at 
your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman


?


PS: Naturally, I was pleased to learn that the PHC's Architectural 
Committee did not see fit to approve this plan. While this isn't necessarily 
the 
last word on the topic -- the Commission doesn't always follow the 
Architectural Committee's recommendations, it's certainly a vindication the way 
many of us think about a 10-story block-long building on 40th St between Pine 
and Baltimore.


?


I'm sure that Penn can come up with some alternate usages of that property 
that would justify its investment in the site and also evidence that famous 
"partnership with the community" of which we hear so 
much.







See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

 



Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - 
http://mail.aol.com

Re: [UC] Historic Commission Rules Against Concept of Hotel Project, as now shown

[MLamond]

In a message dated 10/23/07 6:04:09 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Did they happen to say exactly *how* the community would benefit?
> 
> 
> On Oct 23, 2007, at 05:41 PM, KAREN ALLEN wrote:
> The two members who voted in favor of the project stated that the proposed 
> hotel would be a great benefit to the community.
> 
> Today's meeting was the Architectural Committee of the City's Historical 
Commission.  For 4000 Pine St., the developers were asking the Committee to 
support the "concept" of the hotel project - and then, later, work with the 
developers to work out the details.   

For this short-term stay hotel, the developers were not at the detail stage, 
and were willing to listen to all feedback from the Committee.  The Committee 
voted 4-2 against supporting the concept as is, primarily because of the size 
and shape of the new addition.   Now the developers will go off and work on 
redesigns that might be more acceptable.

I don't recall the 2 committee members in favor of the project saying 
anything remotely like Karen has written above.   Various members remarked 
favorably 
about the removal of the 1960s additions which surround and obscure the 
Italianate building now.   They were definitely in favor of the restoration of 
that 
building and said so repeatedly.   That may be what Karen meant to convey in 
her report.   (Andrew, can you recall better, did anyone said they thought the 
HOTEL would be a great benefit to the community?)

I'd like to note for the list, as I did at the meeting, that 4000 Pine is one 
of only a few buildings in UC which are designated by the Philadelphia 
Historical Commission.   Apparently it was individually designated in the 
1970s.  If 
not for the designation, there would have been no hearing before the 
Historical Commission at all about a reuse of the Italianate building. The 
developers 
could have gotten a demolition permit and torn it down!   Then they could have 
gone straight to the Zoning Board with a proposal for a new hotel on the 
site, stating that the lot had previously contained only a decrepit and 
deteriorated nursing home in an old house surrounded by stucco one-story 
additions and 
blacktop.   

Opponents would have still been able to have their say about a new use at the 
Zoning Board hearing, but the c.1854 building could have already been gone.   
Plus, the Zoning Board is not as sensitive to the impact on neighboring 
properties - the Historical Commission is the better place to argue, as folks 
did 
today, that they felt that the height and materials would be out of place along 
the historic Pine Street streetscape.

Some years ago at the start of the HD debate in UC, folks were asking why we 
needed a local district to protect our houses.   I remember writing at the 
time that it might seem far fetched, but what was already happening in Ocean 
City, NJ was that the 1920s Craftsman houses with duplex zoning were being torn 
down and replaced by larger two-unit McCondos.   I think my observation was met 
at the time with a lot of rolling eyes and "that won't happen here!"   Folks, 
it could and can.   Big-time landlords own almost all of the buildings 
surrounding 4000 Pine.   I walked down the block this morning and looked at 
those 
lovely historic buildings, and ironically, every one of them EXCEPT 4000 Pine 
could be torn down!They are not protected!   The developers could decide to 
build new on the sites, and neither the Historical Commission nor we 
neighborhood residents would have a say.   

Are you CERTAIN that you don't want to revisit the idea of a local historic 
district to make sure 4000 Pine's neighboring buildings remain there?

Looking at this project from a practical perspective, I asked Mr. Lussenhop 
for a tour of the historic part of the building.   He took me inside early this 
morning.   Wrapped behind the confusing Pine Street front addition, there 
still exists an entry area, a grand staircase, a high-ceilinged room with a 
fireplace, and some lovely old doorways.   Some of the original windows remain, 
too.   Other than that, there's really nothing left of the Victorian interior.  
 
And, as Lussenhop pointed out, with the 1960s additions wrapped on the 
outside, they don't know what's left of parts of the exterior walls, either.   
Only a 
project on a large scale, done by experienced professionals, will have the 
financial wherewithal to restore this sadly damaged place.   It's beyond the 
scope of what Chris O'Donnell is doing at 41st & Pine, or what I did and so 
many 
of you did and/or are doing on our own houses.

My experience in the B&B business as the developer of the Gables B&B, and 
currently the owner of the Carriage House B&B next door to my own house on 46th 
St., tells me that there is a continuing need for spaces for short-term stays 
in the neighborhood.   The current B&Bs and hotels don't have cooking & laundry 
facilities for their guests, who are expected to only stay a couple of days.

Re: [UC] Historic Commission Rules Against Hotel Project

[Wilma de Soto]

Indeed, how WOULD our community benefit?  Would this make our quality of
life better, or would this set a precedent for ignoring concerns of
residents in order to further a corporation¹s expansion and reach?

That is a valid question, I think.


On 10/23/07 6:01 PM, "Frank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Did they happen to say exactly *how* the community would benefit?
> 
> 
>  
> Frankus
> Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.
> 
>  
> 
> On Oct 23, 2007, at 05:41 PM, KAREN ALLEN wrote:
> 
>> The two members who voted in favor of the project stated that the proposed
>> hotel would be a great benefit to the community.
> 
> 

Re: [UC] Historic Commission Rules Against Hotel Project

[Frank]

Did they happen to say exactly *how* the community would benefit?


Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.


On Oct 23, 2007, at 05:41 PM, KAREN ALLEN wrote:

The two members who voted in favor of the project stated that the  
proposed hotel would be a great benefit to the community.

[UC] Historic Commission Rules Against Hotel Project

[KAREN ALLEN]

The Historic Commission ruled against the 40th Street hotel proposal in its 
current form, with four members voting to deny approval, and two members voting 
to approve it.  The developers can come back to the Commission with a modifed 
proposal.  
 
Developer Tom Lussenhop, along with the attorney, the architect, and Penn Real 
Estate representatives were there to present the proposal. They presented 
schematics and photos of the site. They also presented photos of other large 
buildings in the area in defense of the hotel's proposed height.
 
After the main presentation and discussion, the Commission solicited comments 
from the audience. Chris O'Donnell, Glenn Moyer, Melani Lamond, John Gallery, 
and myself each addressed the Commission. 
 
I repeated the main points that I made in my editorial letter. I also pointed 
out that all of the large buildings they cited were either on campus, were in 
the unquestioned commercial area along Chestnut and Walnut Streets, or in the 
case of the Fairfax and Garden Court complexes, were located a distance away 
from 40th and Pine. I ended by saying that an OK to this project would lead to 
the same type of out-of scale buildings springing up thourghout the 
neighborhood.
 
John Gallery, the Executive Director of the Preservation Alliance, urged the 
Commission to analyze the proposal in light of three criteria:  would the hotel 
proposal be compatible in size, in scale, and in character with both the 
original mansion and the neighborhood.  
 
Mr. Gallery concluded that no, this proposed hotel would not meet any of the 
three criteria, stating that the addition would be too large, would be out of 
scale with the original mansion, and that the construction materials and window 
placements proposed for the exterior facade of the hotel were not in character 
with the exterior of the mansion.  
 
To illustrate the potential impact on the neighborhood, Mr. Gallery also 
presented a photograph of the north side of the 4000 block of Baltimore Avenue 
(which backs on the hotel site) with his own hand rendering of how the 10-story 
hotel building would look as a background to the three-story twin houses on 
that block. 
 
In denying approval, the four Commission members who did so stated that the 
building would present a huge shift in scale, would not be a nice neighbor 
because of that scale, was too big and aggressive, was too massive, and would 
be overwhelming.  The two members who voted in favor of the project stated that 
the proposed hotel would be a great benefit to the community.  
 

Re: [UC] architectural committee report

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 10/23/2007 4:43:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

It was  asserted that the Spruce Hill Civic Ass. zoning
committee held "two open  and public forums" about
Penn's plan.  Mr Barry Grosbach was present  but did
not correct this or speak.  

Some of our neighbors  spoke against this and Melani
Lamond spoke in favor.



Barry isn't a member of this listserv, so maybe we can ask Melani to find  
out when SHCA zoning committee held the two open and public forums, and how 
they 
 publicized them. We're apparently not tuned in to the right wavelengths or,  
surely, someone on this list would have known about them and posted the  
information.
 
Would you be so kind as to find out and let us know, Melani?   

Always at  your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman
 
PS: Naturally, I was pleased to learn that the PHC's Architectural  Committee 
did not see fit to approve this plan. While this isn't necessarily the  last 
word on the topic -- the Commission doesn't always follow the  Architectural 
Committee's recommendations, it's certainly a vindication the way  many of us 
think about a 10-story block-long building on 40th St between Pine  and 
Baltimore.
 
I'm sure that Penn can come up with some alternate usages of that property  
that would justify its investment in the site and also evidence that famous  
"partnership with the community" of which we hear so  much.




** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Re: [UC] A serious block cleaning

[Glenn]

I got the call too.

This duplicates the only tangible benefit offered by
UCD!  Picking up street garbage and giving it to the
city. 

If tax exempt Penn eliminates UCD and donates its
operating budget to the city, let's suggest that we,
the taxpayers, use part of the money to figure out
city wide logistical problems with this effort.

The rest of the UCD allocation could be considered
money for the burden of extra cleaning for many
student's poor garbage habits.

Wouldn't it be great to see this UCD money currently
spent on neighborhood domination and subversion of
democracy, instead spent on city improvement.

Free at last, UCD can go away.  Thank the Gods we can
be free at last!

Glenn, ready to support the city's efforts

 

--- John Ellingsworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> This raised a (somewhat) perplexing interesting
> question:
> 
> If every block in the immediate area is to be
> cleaned, and all of the 
> cars are to be moved, where are all the cars to be
> moved to if every 
> block is to be cleaned?
> 
> While I think it is a great idea, it doesn't seem to
> have much 
> logistical planning behind it.   Kind of like the
> 1 volunteers 
> policing plan...
> 
> I'll believe it when I see it.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> John
> 
> Joe Clarke wrote:
> > We received the same instructions for the 4800
> block of Beaumont however 
> > no signs have been posted nor
> > bags provided to assist with this effort.
> > 
> > Joe Clarke
> > 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> I got a message on Sunday about a fairly robust
> block cleaning that 
> >> will happen
> >> in concert with the usual trash pickup day this
> week.  According to the
> >> message, it'll involve teams with backpack
> blowers, hand brooms and 
> >> mechanical
> >> brooms, and we're expected to move our cars. 
> Apparently teams from 
> >> PMB will
> >> follow up with "beautification tips."  Is this
> happening elsewhere in 
> >> West
> >> Philly?  You can hear the message right here:
> >> http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJos9f1ndxs
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >> 
> >> You are receiving this because you are subscribed
> to the
> >> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for
> archive information, see
> >> .
> >>
> >>   
> > 
> > You are receiving this because you are subscribed
> to the
> > list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for
> archive information, see
> > .
> > 
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to
> the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive
> information, see
> .
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

[UC] architectural committee report

[Glenn]

Dear neighbors,

The architectural committee of the historic commission
voted 4.5 to 1.5 (officially 4-2) against approval of
the Penn 110 unit hotel concept at 40th and Pine.

The Univerisity of Pennsylvania will either need to
leave the historic property fall apart or Penn will, I
guess, go bankrupt due to the hardship.

It was asserted that the Spruce Hill Civic Ass. zoning
committee held "two open and public forums" about
Penn's plan.  Mr Barry Grosbach was present but did
not correct this or speak.  

Some of our neighbors spoke against this and Melani
Lamond spoke in favor.   

Quick report only-but I'm steaming about this Spruce
Hill Civic Ass., "open and public forum" bullshit.  I
wanted to give our civic ass. the benefit of the
doubt.

Glenn







__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

[UC] 40th Street hotel meeting

[anm]

I stopped into the Architectural Review Committee meeting this afternoon to hear
the presentation on the proposed redevelopment of the building at 40th and Pine.
[In a blow struck to citizen journalists everywhere, I was prohibited by the
committee (after they consulted with the law department) from taking either
video or audio recordings of the proceedings, so you won't see the action at
malcolmxpark.org.  Nevertheless, all materials are a matter of public record,
and they did offer to make an audio recording available to me.]  Most of the
presentation was made by the developers' attorney and architect, though
Lussenhop and several representatives from Penn were also present.  Karen
Allen, Chris O'Donnell, Glen Moyer, and (I believe) the president of the
Historical Commission spoke in opposition to the project on various grounds,
arguing that it was too large for the space, too close to the street, and that,
contrary to the petitioners' claims, it was not part of a commercial strip. 
Melanie Lamond spoke in favor of the project, noting, among other things, that
the restoration of the mansion was highly desirable and that opponents of the
hotel should note that their opposition is made possible, in this case, by the
fact hat the mansion has a historic designation.  She asked those present to
reconsider their opposition to a historic district.

The committee rendered a split decision, with 4 opposed to the project in
concept and two in favor.  That decision is then forwarded, if I understood
them correctly, to the full Historical Commission as an advisory opinion.  The
committee members who objected did so based mostly on the size of the project
and its proximity to the street.  A couple of them seemed to think that a
smaller project might pass muster.  One noted that she might be more interested
in a project that was taller, if that meant it could be set back from the street
more.  As the proposal stands now, the apartment buildings on Baltimore would
not be razed, and a 5000 sq. ft. restaurant/cafe would open onto 40th street.

Overall, it was fascinating to see the committee in action.  If you have the
time, it's well worth dropping in to see how your fellow residents are helping
to craft the everyday pedestrian experience in your neighborhood and elsewhere
in the city.  Leave your video camera at home.

I have tried not to misrepresent anyone's position above, but I'm going from
memory here.  I live pretty far away from this project, so I'm not directly
affected.  For now, I'm agnostic on whether it's good or bad for the
neighborhood.  I was glad to see so many West Philadelphians there to voice
their opinions and stay informed!

Andrew

You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: Re: [UC] A serious block cleaning

[paintered]

its 120 pm tuesday i live at 49th n chancellor...no1 moved 
car,sweeper came up block,going wrong way on a one way street...cleaned the 
driving lane tho   ed
From: Joe Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 2007/10/23 Tue AM 11:16:36 CDT
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] A serious block cleaning

We received the same instructions for the 4800 block of Beaumont however 
no signs have been posted nor
bags provided to assist with this effort.

Joe Clarke

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I got a message on Sunday about a fairly robust block cleaning that will 
> happen
> in concert with the usual trash pickup day this week.  According to the
> message, it'll involve teams with backpack blowers, hand brooms and mechanical
> brooms, and we're expected to move our cars.  Apparently teams from PMB will
> follow up with "beautification tips."  Is this happening elsewhere in West
> Philly?  You can hear the message right here:
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJos9f1ndxs
>
> Andrew
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
> .
>
>   

You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] A serious block cleaning

[Gail Massey]

I called the # they left, and someone actually got back to me right 
away!  They realize the logistics haven't been worked out.  Cars will 
not be ticketed.  They just want to raise awareness toward block 
cleaning.

Gail

At 12:56 PM -0400 10/23/07, John Ellingsworth wrote:

This raised a (somewhat) perplexing interesting question:

If every block in the immediate area is to be cleaned, and all of 
the cars are to be moved, where are all the cars to be moved to if 
every block is to be cleaned?


While I think it is a great idea, it doesn't seem to have much 
logistical planning behind it.   Kind of like the 1 volunteers 
policing plan...


I'll believe it when I see it.

Regards,

John

Joe Clarke wrote:
We received the same instructions for the 4800 block of Beaumont 
however no signs have been posted nor

bags provided to assist with this effort.

Joe Clarke

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I got a message on Sunday about a fairly robust block cleaning 
that will happen

in concert with the usual trash pickup day this week.  According to the
message, it'll involve teams with backpack blowers, hand brooms 
and mechanical

brooms, and we're expected to move our cars.  Apparently teams from PMB will
follow up with "beautification tips."  Is this happening elsewhere in West
Philly?  You can hear the message right here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJos9f1ndxs

Andrew

You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.




You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.



You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.



--
--
Dr. Gail Massey
Room 243 John Morgan Bldg.
Dept. of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine
University of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6082
Ph:215-898-6850; Fax: 215-898-2401
E-Mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] A serious block cleaning

[John Ellingsworth]

This raised a (somewhat) perplexing interesting question:

If every block in the immediate area is to be cleaned, and all of the 
cars are to be moved, where are all the cars to be moved to if every 
block is to be cleaned?


While I think it is a great idea, it doesn't seem to have much 
logistical planning behind it.   Kind of like the 1 volunteers 
policing plan...


I'll believe it when I see it.

Regards,

John

Joe Clarke wrote:
We received the same instructions for the 4800 block of Beaumont however 
no signs have been posted nor

bags provided to assist with this effort.

Joe Clarke

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I got a message on Sunday about a fairly robust block cleaning that 
will happen

in concert with the usual trash pickup day this week.  According to the
message, it'll involve teams with backpack blowers, hand brooms and 
mechanical
brooms, and we're expected to move our cars.  Apparently teams from 
PMB will
follow up with "beautification tips."  Is this happening elsewhere in 
West

Philly?  You can hear the message right here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJos9f1ndxs

Andrew

You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

  


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.



You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] A serious block cleaning

[Joe Clarke]

We received the same instructions for the 4800 block of Beaumont however 
no signs have been posted nor

bags provided to assist with this effort.

Joe Clarke

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I got a message on Sunday about a fairly robust block cleaning that will happen
in concert with the usual trash pickup day this week.  According to the
message, it'll involve teams with backpack blowers, hand brooms and mechanical
brooms, and we're expected to move our cars.  Apparently teams from PMB will
follow up with "beautification tips."  Is this happening elsewhere in West
Philly?  You can hear the message right here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJos9f1ndxs

Andrew

You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

  


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] 40th Street Hotel letter - an interesting reply

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
My point was in regards to whether or not it's
more beneficial to the process and the community for the developer to
know the concerns of the community prior to the meeting.

If Penn or it's developer (Lussenhop) wanted to know the concerns of the 
community -- ostensibly to get inputs and engage in a dialog to reach 
some kind accommodation -- they/he would have presented some basic ideas 
then held one or more community forums prior to starting the "legal" 
processes into motion.
 
Getting this information the way he did, under the table -- as it were 
-- is just a way to prepare for objections, not to understand concerns 
and try to work with people who are worried about the implications as 
they affect the quality of their lives.



this whole question of stephen's is rather odd, and I think 
you and glenn and others have shown pretty clearly why.


what isn't clear yet is whether anyone else from the 
community or this list received an email from the developer, 
tom lussenhop. others besides karen heenan have written 
comments on this list (and in the university city review) 
about the proposed hotel. have they been contacted by lussenhop?


also, in tom lussenhop's response to karen, he said there's 
been 'a lot of meetings.' can anyone here tell us where the 
community meetings about this were held? when? how were they 
publicized? what were the results (minutes posted anywhere?) 
in his message to karen, tom said that one of the outcomes 
of the proposed hotel would be to introduce 'new (more 
responsible) neighbors' to the area.



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
  "It is very clear on this listserve who
   these people are. Ray has admitted being
   connected to this forger."  -- Tony West
  "Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated,
   more believable" -- Tony West

























































__
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
__


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] A serious block cleaning

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I got a message on Sunday about a fairly robust block cleaning that will happen
in concert with the usual trash pickup day this week.  According to the
message, it'll involve teams with backpack blowers, hand brooms and mechanical
brooms, and we're expected to move our cars.  Apparently teams from PMB will
follow up with "beautification tips."  Is this happening elsewhere in West
Philly?  You can hear the message right here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJos9f1ndxs




yes, I got this message, too. it reminded me of our block 
cleanings from back in the day. (and I still don't have a car.)



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
  "It is very clear on this listserve who
   these people are. Ray has admitted being
   connected to this forger."  -- Tony West
  "Ray's falsehoods are more sophisticated,
   more believable" -- Tony West









































__
This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.
For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email 
__


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

[UC] A serious block cleaning

[anm]

I got a message on Sunday about a fairly robust block cleaning that will happen
in concert with the usual trash pickup day this week.  According to the
message, it'll involve teams with backpack blowers, hand brooms and mechanical
brooms, and we're expected to move our cars.  Apparently teams from PMB will
follow up with "beautification tips."  Is this happening elsewhere in West
Philly?  You can hear the message right here:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fJos9f1ndxs

Andrew

You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] 40th Street Hotel letter - an interesting reply

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 10/22/2007 11:59:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

My point  was in regards to whether or not it's
more beneficial to the process and  the community for the developer to
know the concerns of the community prior  to the meeting.



If Penn or it's developer (Lussenhop) wanted to know the concerns of the  
community -- ostensibly to get inputs and engage in a dialog to reach some kind 
 
accommodation -- they/he would have presented some basic ideas then held one 
or  more community forums prior to starting the "legal" processes into  motion.
 
Getting this information the way he did, under the table -- as it were --  is 
just a way to prepare for objections, not to understand concerns and try to  
work with people who are worried about the implications as they affect the  
quality of their lives.  



Always at  your service & ready for a dialog,
Al  Krigman



** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

Re: [UC] 40th Street Hotel letter - an interesting reply

[Glenn]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
>  Actually, while it may be that in court you don't
> disclose your strategy, you do disclose your
> evidence and issues before trial.? The evidence
> comes out in discovery and the issues should be
> framed in the pleadings.
> 
> Paul


Paul,

It seems that we may agree that this hotel project
could be considered like an adversarial occurrence
similar to court proceedings.  Since Lussenhop has
refused to disclose the massive evidence he must have
assembled, do you think his petition should be
summarily dismissed on the basis of contempt?  

Am I correct that in court the defendant (the
community) must also be allowed to see evidence used
against us before a decision is made?  It seems that
with this historical commission case the right to
discovery is only for the benefit of the powerful
side. 

Lussenhop/Campus Apts.  seem to have everything in
advance and the defendant gets to see nothing but the
newspaper report, which exposed this assault.  Is that
UC Review report all Lussenhop has assembled to
present today, I wonder?   

In community vs. Lussenhop, it would seem that only a
kangaroo court would allow such a lopsided advantage
just because he is a crony of Penn.

These corporate clowns aren’t great friends of the
funky neighborhood.  We should never forget that they
make it an adversarial relationship through secrecy
and astroturfing and always always try to stack the
deck then run out the clock!

Thanks for the clarifying explanation about evidence
in court.

Your buddy,
Glenn  










> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: univcity@list.purple.com
> Sent: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 8:45 am
> Subject: Re: [UC] 40th Street Hotel letter - an
> interesting reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In a message dated 10/21/2007 11:49:42 P.M. Eastern
> Daylight Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> 
> Hopefully without taking sides in this issue.I'm
> curious 
>   about
> your concern.? Why is it better to surprise the
> developer with 
>   your
> concerns?? It seems to me that providing the
> developer with time 
>   to
> consider your concerns allows him to more
> thoughtfully take them 
>   into
> consideration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, c'mon Stephen. It obviously biases the
> proceedings at the Architectural 
> Committee meeting. Does one side of a court battle
> tell the other its strategy? 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> If, in fact, someone working for the PHC leaked this
> information to 
> Lussenhop, it's a breach of conduct and ethics that
> could justifiably result in 
> immediate job termination.
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> Always at 
> your service & ready for a dialog,
> Al 
> Krigman
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your
> Homepage.
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

> Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check
> out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
> 


__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.