Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Ross Bender]

On 5/28/07, Elliot M. Stern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Actually, I would think that the name van Helder points more to
Netherlandish ancestry. If German, the name would be "von Helder". Den
Helder is a city or town some 40 or so miles north of Amsterdam.



Interesting point. OTOH ve haff Walther von der Vogelweide*, *medieval
German poet.

FWIW the Mennonite "William Rittenhouse", started life as "Wilhelm
Rittenhausen", moved to New Amsterdam where he was "Willem Ruitenhausen",
then finally to Philly where he became Rittenhouse.

But I guess I have to concede the point about "van/von". The great Dutch
Mennonite painters Solomon van Ruysdael and his nephew Jacob are cases in
point, as is Dutch Mennonite poet and dramatist Joost van den Vondel, the
guy who apostasized and became Catholic and after whom Vondel Park in
Amsterdam is named, and which is now full of hippies.


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org/mqrtoc.html

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Elliot M. Stern]

Actually, I would think that the name van Helder points more to  
Netherlandish ancestry. If German, the name would be "von Helder".  
Den Helder is a city or town some 40 or so miles north of Amsterdam.


Elliot

On 26 May  2007, at 3:05 PM, Ross Bender wrote:

No, having met you for the first time last night I would have  
classified you as Mongoloid rather than Caucasian. Touch of the old  
Genghis Khan DNA there? But perhaps you were adopted by Nazis? I  
mean, "Van Helder" is a moniker that hints at sound Germanic stock,  
rather than a hint of the old Mongolian eyefold. Which reminds me  
of a particularly putrid song at THE GREEN BIRD last night, one  
about sucking on the Princess's eyelids. I had to go outside and  
throw up after that one. And revive myself with an ampule. And  
she's got such loverly eyelids, too -- shame to sully them.



On 5/26/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
That's just as well.  I'm hardly the Aryan ideal, am I?

- Mike V.
-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 2:55 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: SKnight; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



On 5/26/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Wait, someone called me a fascist?


Actually they called you a Nazi, but Jeff had to yank the message  
due to its violation of Godwin's Law.


From: SKnight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:21 PM
To: Mike V.; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


For the person who thinks that Mike V is a fascist, this is the  
humor I

was referring to.  He may be a fascist in your eyes, but in mine
he is witty.
sk
- Original Message -
From: Mike V.
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


Apparently when "Honest" Al Krigman asks "How are you doing?", he
expects a full report on your health, how much you're paying your
doctor, a listing of potential risk factors and a stool sample.

- Mike V.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


so what's dishonest about issuing a statement to the media saying  
"we're

conducting an investigation"?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 11:19 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to  
deal

with this?


I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have
tried honesty and candor.

Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon,  
and

all-around crank,






See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> .


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.



--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org



--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Anthony West]

These are very funny, Ray.

-- Tony West


has everyone seen this famous chart? internet personality types:

   http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/

it's fun recognizing who's who. also might be fun for each 
of us to identify ourself...


[ray]




You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Frank wrote to Tony West:
Is your dislike for Ray so strong that you have to resort to this?  Must 
you respond to his every sentence with the opposite opinion? Why  
respond at all?


Which brings me to your earlier question about how some online  
communities deal with trolls. We have ignored them. It works. So does  
creating a moderated environment but, given the nature of this list,  I 
don't think it is appropriate here. I'm sure we would have some  
disagreements about what constitutes a troll.



has everyone seen this famous chart? internet personality types:

   http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/

it's fun recognizing who's who. also might be fun for each 
of us to identify ourself...



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
hahaha definitely PHILOSOPHER and KUNG-FU MASTER:
http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_16.php
http://www.politicsforum.org/images/flame_warriors/flame_21.php














































You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Mike V.]

Well, while the Japanese were officially classified as an Aryan race by
the Nazi race commission, I regret to report that it's the blood of
Chinamen, not Mongols or the Nipponese, that runs through my veins.  The
name is just one of those wacky accidents of history.
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 3:05 PM
To: Mike V.; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


No, having met you for the first time last night I would have classified
you as Mongoloid rather than Caucasian. Touch of the old Genghis Khan
DNA there? But perhaps you were adopted by Nazis? I mean, "Van Helder"
is a moniker that hints at sound Germanic stock, rather than a hint of
the old Mongolian eyefold. Which reminds me of a particularly putrid
song at THE GREEN BIRD last night, one about sucking on the Princess's
eyelids. I had to go outside and throw up after that one. And revive
myself with an ampule. And she's got such loverly eyelids, too -- shame
to sully them. 



On 5/26/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

That's just as well.  I'm hardly the Aryan ideal, am I?

 
- Mike V.


-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 2:55 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: SKnight; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News




On 5/26/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Wait, someone called me a fascist?



Actually they called you a Nazi, but Jeff had to yank the message due to
its violation of Godwin's Law. 



From: SKnight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:21 PM
To: Mike V.; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News 


For the person who thinks that Mike V is a fascist, this is the humor I
was referring to.  He may be a fascist in your eyes, but in mine
he is witty.
sk
- Original Message -
From: Mike V. 
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


Apparently when "Honest" Al Krigman asks "How are you doing?", he 
expects a full report on your health, how much you're paying your
doctor, a listing of potential risk factors and a stool sample.

- Mike V.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


so what's dishonest about issuing a statement to the media saying "we're

conducting an investigation"?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 11:19 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal
with this?


I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have 
tried honesty and candor.

Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon, and
all-around crank,




 

See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> .


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the 
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.





-- 
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org 




-- 
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Ross Bender]

No, having met you for the first time last night I would have classified you
as Mongoloid rather than Caucasian. Touch of the old Genghis Khan DNA there?
But perhaps you were adopted by Nazis? I mean, "Van Helder" is a moniker
that hints at sound Germanic stock, rather than a hint of the old Mongolian
eyefold. Which reminds me of a particularly putrid song at THE GREEN BIRD
last night, one about sucking on the Princess's eyelids. I had to go outside
and throw up after that one. And revive myself with an ampule. And she's got
such loverly eyelids, too -- shame to sully them.


On 5/26/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


 That's just as well.  I'm hardly the Aryan ideal, am I?

- Mike V.

 -Original Message-
*From:* Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* Saturday, May 26, 2007 2:55 PM
*To:* Mike V.
*Cc:* SKnight; UnivCity@list.purple.com
*Subject:* Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



On 5/26/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Wait, someone called me a fascist?



Actually they called you a Nazi, but Jeff had to yank the message due to
its violation of Godwin's Law.

From: SKnight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:21 PM
> To: Mike V.; UnivCity@list.purple.com
> Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
>
>
> For the person who thinks that Mike V is a fascist, this is the humor I
> was referring to.  He may be a fascist in your eyes, but in mine
> he is witty.
> sk
> - Original Message -
> From: Mike V.
> To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:35 AM
> Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
>
>
> Apparently when "Honest" Al Krigman asks "How are you doing?", he
> expects a full report on your health, how much you're paying your
> doctor, a listing of potential risk factors and a stool sample.
>
> - Mike V.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:23 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
> Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
>
>
> so what's dishonest about issuing a statement to the media saying "we're
>
> conducting an investigation"?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 11:19 AM
> To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
> Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
>
> In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal
> with this?
>
>
> I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have
> tried honesty and candor.
>
> Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
> Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon, and
> all-around crank,
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> See what's free at AOL.com
> <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> .
>
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>.
>



--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org





--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Ross Bender]

On 5/26/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Wait, someone called me a fascist?




Actually they called you a Nazi, but Jeff had to yank the message due to its
violation of Godwin's Law.

From: SKnight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:21 PM
To: Mike V.; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


For the person who thinks that Mike V is a fascist, this is the humor I
was referring to.  He may be a fascist in your eyes, but in mine
he is witty.
sk
- Original Message -
From: Mike V.
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


Apparently when "Honest" Al Krigman asks "How are you doing?", he
expects a full report on your health, how much you're paying your
doctor, a listing of potential risk factors and a stool sample.

- Mike V.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


so what's dishonest about issuing a statement to the media saying "we're
conducting an investigation"?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 11:19 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal
with this?


I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have
tried honesty and candor.

Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon, and
all-around crank,






See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> .


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.





--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Mike V.]

That's just as well.  I'm hardly the Aryan ideal, am I?
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: Ross Bender [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 2:55 PM
To: Mike V.
Cc: SKnight; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News




On 5/26/07, Mike V. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 

Wait, someone called me a fascist?



Actually they called you a Nazi, but Jeff had to yank the message due to
its violation of Godwin's Law. 



From: SKnight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:21 PM
To: Mike V.; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News 


For the person who thinks that Mike V is a fascist, this is the humor I
was referring to.  He may be a fascist in your eyes, but in mine
he is witty.
sk
- Original Message -
From: Mike V. 
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


Apparently when "Honest" Al Krigman asks "How are you doing?", he 
expects a full report on your health, how much you're paying your
doctor, a listing of potential risk factors and a stool sample.

- Mike V.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


so what's dishonest about issuing a statement to the media saying "we're

conducting an investigation"?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 11:19 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal
with this?


I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have 
tried honesty and candor.

Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon, and
all-around crank,




 

See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> .


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the 
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.





-- 
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org 

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Mike V.]

Wait, someone called me a fascist?

- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: SKnight [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 9:21 PM
To: Mike V.; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


For the person who thinks that Mike V is a fascist, this is the humor I
was referring to.  He may be a fascist in your eyes, but in mine
he is witty.
sk
- Original Message - 
From: Mike V. 
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:35 AM
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


Apparently when "Honest" Al Krigman asks "How are you doing?", he
expects a full report on your health, how much you're paying your
doctor, a listing of potential risk factors and a stool sample.

- Mike V.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


so what's dishonest about issuing a statement to the media saying "we're
conducting an investigation"?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 11:19 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal
with this?
   

I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have
tried honesty and candor.

Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon, and
all-around crank,






See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> .


You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[SKnight]

MessageFor the person who thinks that Mike V is a fascist, this is the humor I 
was referring to.  He may be a fascist in your eyes, but in mine
he is witty.
sk
  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike V.<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: UnivCity@list.purple.com<mailto:UnivCity@list.purple.com> 
  Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:35 AM
  Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


  Apparently when "Honest" Al Krigman asks "How are you doing?", he expects a 
full report on your health, how much you're paying your doctor, a listing of 
potential risk factors and a stool sample.

  - Mike V.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
    Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


so what's dishonest about issuing a statement to the media saying "we're 
conducting an investigation"?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 11:19 AM
    To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] writes:

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal 
with this?
   

I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have 
tried honesty and candor.

Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon, and 
all-around crank,






See what's free at AOL.com 
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503<http://www.aol.com/?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503>>
 .

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[SKnight]

I'm with you, Wilma.  John Fenton is in an unfortunate situation and 
predicament.  Here's hoping John stays in UCD and this brouhaha
goes away as fast as it materialized.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Wilma de Soto<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: S. Sharrieff Ali<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ; UnivCity 
listserv<mailto:UnivCity@list.purple.com> 
  Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 6:28 PM
  Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


  Actually, if the UCD should want all of us (businesses and residents)
  eventually to help sustain them and contribute, they should be more open
  since they are a community-based non-profit.

  I think John Fenton is the wonderful.  I wish he had not been caught up into
  this "chanchuyo".

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

What does this mean exactly?

I believe my point about boundaries was clarified in the final  
paragraph of my post. Going outside of any kind of boundary can  
sometimes be for the greater good of the organization. The person who  
makes that decision, though, will sometimes be called on to justify  
their decision. I'm sure that's exactly what's happening now.


Frank

On May 25, 2007, at 08:42 AM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:


Malcolm X Park and Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell
are community partners of UCD, Penn, and many of the
board institutions.



You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Kyle Cassidy]

I don't think anybody, Tony included, has said that they were anything but 
completely opposed to UCD supporting anybodies  political campaign. I'm 
certainly opposed to them putting up campaign signs for anyone. Not only is it 
wrong for a non-profit to do so, it's illegal; this goes for churches, and it 
goes for UCD. Whether UCD can cross the invisible line set up on their maps to 
perform a service however is a completely different issue. As long as they're 
keeping their funders happy, UCD can certainly go an extra block or so and 
extend services as they see fit. In fact, I can think of at least one other 
instance where UCD provided safety ambassadors to walk people back from an 
event on 52nd street. To stand on the opposite side of the street and shout 
"sorry! we can't help you! there's an invisible line down the middle of this 
road!" would be a foolish consistency. imho anyway.

UCD has, in the past, expressed a desire to extend services West. The proposed 
NID maps showed how they'd planned to add street cleaning and safety ambassador 
service several blocks farther out (I don't recall the exact numbers). So, 
crossing the road to help out in Malcolm X park seem to me like going the extra 
mile in spite of funding difficulties. Now, if they did go the extra mile to 
put up campaign signs for Jannie Blackwell, I'm completely opposed to that, as 
I'm sure Tony and Ray are too. 


> This is another example of an area with specific boundaries that you  have 
> decided don't exist because you don't want them to exist. You've  even 

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Boundaries would come into play if there was 
"consistent" service to an area which is not
subsidized or advertised.

Any supervisor, in order to do his or her job 
effectively needs to use their own "reasonable"
judgment on a day-to-day basis.

If the local Councilperson asked John Fenton if  
a crew he was managing could help set up the
Malcolm X Park for a community fair, personally, 
I think it would be reasonable. At the point he 
arrived and it looked to be more than expected?..
it was probably easier to get it done and move 
on rather to turn around and leave Jannie Blackwell 
"hanging".

Malcolm X Park and Councilwoman Jannie Blackwell 
are community partners of UCD, Penn, and many of the 
board institutions. At least that is how it is stated 
and portrayed at the Penn First Thursday meetings. 

Penn has used multiple resources to improve the 
conditions at the park and many Penn employees live 
directly around the park. I think it would be particularly 
hypocritical of the UCD Board (who is controlling the 
outcome) to suddenly disassociate themselves.

So.. making a boundary argument?, I believe does not hold 
up to scrutiny.

S

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 1:33 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

This is another example of an area with specific boundaries that you  
have decided don't exist because you don't want them to exist. You've  
even decided that your opinion is that of "most" people in the  
neighborhood and you imply that those who disagree are insane. The  
arrogance I see in this post is incredible to me.

Is your dislike for Ray so strong that you have to resort to this?  
Must you respond to his every sentence with the opposite opinion? Why  
respond at all?

Which brings me to your earlier question about how some online  
communities deal with trolls. We have ignored them. It works. So does  
creating a moderated environment but, given the nature of this list,  
I don't think it is appropriate here. I'm sure we would have some  
disagreements about what constitutes a troll.

As far as the John Fenton/UCD controversy is concerned, dismissing it  
by saying that's the way Philly politics works just doesn't wash with  
me. People make conscious decisions about whether or not to  
participate in this kind of logrolling. In my opinion, people should  
just fess up and take their lumps. If they think it's for the greater  
good, then they can make their case and see what happens. And  
remember, this might not be an isolated incident, just the only one  
we've heard about.

Frank

On May 24, 2007, at 10:33 PM, Anthony West wrote:

> As a park activist, I'd have to say this argument is thin. If you  
> serve a community of residents within certain boundaries, but one  
> of their dedicated facilities lies one block beyond those  
> boundaries, a wise and responsible community organization will seek  
> to extend them some coverage. It's meaningless that some  
> neighborhood service lies one block outside some boundary. Suppose  
> the West Philadelphia Y requested some assistance from UCD -- would  
> that bother you? I'm asking for the opinion of every neighbor on  
> this list as well as yours.
>
> I personally know readers of UC-list who are also Friends of  
> Malcolm X Park. How many readers have been quietly thinking Greg  
> Cojulun is doing a lousy job, over at  Malcolm X Park? By contrast,  
> how many readers have noticed how much better Malcolm X Park has  
> been looking, compared to 1997? If you belong to the latter group  
> (aka the not-insane group)
>
> Facilitating Malcolm X Park activities in general is one of the  
> best things either UCD or any of its haughty rivals could do. I'm  
> totally for that. It makes sense to most people who are comfortable  
> living in this neighborhood. If any of you are uncomfortable with  
> Malcolm X Park, call me and talk to me. Yes,  it is very much part  
> of our neighborhood and a very safe and well-maintained space, I  
> might add.
>
> -- Tony West
>
>
> Ray wrote:
>> ucd states on their website precisely where their
>> boundaries are, and that's where everyone funding ucd
>> expects them to be servicing. and that's where ucd claims all its  
>> credit, it's where ucd draws its statistics to write up its report  
>> cards, etc.
>>
>> this incident involved taking workers away from servicing an area  
>> within the ucd boundaries to an area outside the ucd boundaries.  
>> workers that included ucd staff as well as 2 penn students.
>
>
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named &quo

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Anthony West]

In my experience, most people like nice parks in their neighborhood and 
prefer them to shabby ones. I have actually logged hundreds of hours sitting 
in park space and asking people how they feel about it, so I respect my own 
opinion on this subject at least as much as I respect your opinion on 
virtual communities. There may be a hidden majority out there that quietly 
dislikes nice parks and wishes people would let them run down, but I doubt 
it.


I don't dislike Ray at all. He has just raised a very interesting issue 
about UCD governance that I've been trying to explore with him. It extends 
broadly to any kind of local service group or agency below the City level 
(and this is a very large city). I think it's useful to focus attention on 
practical issues from the beginning, to steer common inquiry away from blind 
alleys. Some lines of thought Ray pursues are not blind alleys.


-- Tony West

From: "Frank" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
This is another example of an area with specific boundaries that you  have 
decided don't exist because you don't want them to exist. You've  even 
decided that your opinion is that of "most" people in the  neighborhood 
and you imply that those who disagree are insane. The  arrogance I see in 
this post is incredible to me.


Is your dislike for Ray so strong that you have to resort to this?  Must 
you respond to his every sentence with the opposite opinion? Why  respond 
at all?




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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Dave Axler]

Speaking from experience as the former Treasurer and President of a 
501(c)(3) organization, the sadly-defunct Cherry Tree Music Co-op, I'll 
offer a brief explanation.


"501(c)(3)" refers to a specific section of the Internal Revenue Code. 
It is a status that is granted by the IRS to certain types of 
"charitable" organizations --  corporations, community chests, funds, 
or foundations that are organized exclusively for a charitable purpose. 
Such purposes include "...charitable, religious, educational, 
scientific, literary, testing for public safety, fostering national or 
international amateur sports competition, and the prevention of cruelty 
to children or animals." The full details on eligibility, reporting 
requirements, etc., can be found here:

http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/index.html

An organization with this status can receive tax-deductible 
contributions. It is still required to pay many other Federal, State, 
and local taxes on payroll, earnings (from interest or investments), 
etc., and to make regular reports to the IRS on certain aspects of its 
operations.


Different states have different policies on how they recognize and 
treat 501(c)(3) organizations. For instance, here in Pennsylvania, such 
an organization is normally required to incorporate as a non-profit, 
and is exempt from paying Sales and Use tax on its purchases.


The individual states also have a variety of regulations on the 
fund-raising activities performed by a 501(c)(3) organization. 
Pennsylvania requires a substantial amount of additional registration 
and reporting if a 501(c)(3) solicits donations, as compared to merely 
accepting them when offered or when spending money that was given to 
them via a will or trust (such as the local Pew Charitable Trust).



-Original Message-
From: Bill Sanderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Thu, 24 May 2007 3:21 pm
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News




I believe that the 501c3 status comes from
the Feds, not the state.  It is federal taxes that contributions to such
organizations can be exempted from, not state taxes.



I suspect the possibility of this incident
arousing enough interest in a Federal (anything) to prompt some action 
is near

zero, but maybe I lack imagination.  Not saying that there wasn’t a
situation that could be construed as a violation, but I suspect that 
the folks

who would look at this have bigger fish to fry.








From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of S. Sharrieff Ali

Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:26
PM
To: 'UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN'; 'University City List'
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on
ABC News




UCD management is accountable to it's Board of Directors.



UCD management by mission is accountable in part to those it

services through geographic boundaries, it’s relationships of

support (which would include ALL the local politicians), and

individuals who donate money to supplement the on-going

institutional support.



UCD management is accountable in part to the State of Pennsylvania

based on it’s 501-C3 status.



If sustained funding were to happen through a local assessment,

then, in that case the UCD management would be accountable to

the public interest based on that assessment and still would be

accountable to a Board of Directors representative of that interest.



S




AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free 
from AOL at AOL.com.

=0


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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

If going above and beyond means putting up campaign posters at a  
church fair, I'm going to complain every time.


Frank

On May 25, 2007, at 01:57 AM, Bill Sanderson wrote:

I didn't think Tony needed others to chime in, even though he  
requested it,
but I guess he does.  I'm very happy to see any agency go the extra  
mile, or
step, or whatever, to do something that is within their general  
mandate, but

perhaps isn't strictly allowed by the bureaucratic rules.

So much of the time the reverse is true--that the organizations  
don't even
do what they are supposed to do--that I'm not going to slap  
somebody for

going above and beyond.


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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Bill Sanderson]

I didn't think Tony needed others to chime in, even though he requested it,
but I guess he does.  I'm very happy to see any agency go the extra mile, or
step, or whatever, to do something that is within their general mandate, but
perhaps isn't strictly allowed by the bureaucratic rules.

So much of the time the reverse is true--that the organizations don't even
do what they are supposed to do--that I'm not going to slap somebody for
going above and beyond.


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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

This is another example of an area with specific boundaries that you  
have decided don't exist because you don't want them to exist. You've  
even decided that your opinion is that of "most" people in the  
neighborhood and you imply that those who disagree are insane. The  
arrogance I see in this post is incredible to me.


Is your dislike for Ray so strong that you have to resort to this?  
Must you respond to his every sentence with the opposite opinion? Why  
respond at all?


Which brings me to your earlier question about how some online  
communities deal with trolls. We have ignored them. It works. So does  
creating a moderated environment but, given the nature of this list,  
I don't think it is appropriate here. I'm sure we would have some  
disagreements about what constitutes a troll.


As far as the John Fenton/UCD controversy is concerned, dismissing it  
by saying that's the way Philly politics works just doesn't wash with  
me. People make conscious decisions about whether or not to  
participate in this kind of logrolling. In my opinion, people should  
just fess up and take their lumps. If they think it's for the greater  
good, then they can make their case and see what happens. And  
remember, this might not be an isolated incident, just the only one  
we've heard about.


Frank

On May 24, 2007, at 10:33 PM, Anthony West wrote:

As a park activist, I'd have to say this argument is thin. If you  
serve a community of residents within certain boundaries, but one  
of their dedicated facilities lies one block beyond those  
boundaries, a wise and responsible community organization will seek  
to extend them some coverage. It's meaningless that some  
neighborhood service lies one block outside some boundary. Suppose  
the West Philadelphia Y requested some assistance from UCD -- would  
that bother you? I'm asking for the opinion of every neighbor on  
this list as well as yours.


I personally know readers of UC-list who are also Friends of  
Malcolm X Park. How many readers have been quietly thinking Greg  
Cojulun is doing a lousy job, over at  Malcolm X Park? By contrast,  
how many readers have noticed how much better Malcolm X Park has  
been looking, compared to 1997? If you belong to the latter group  
(aka the not-insane group)


Facilitating Malcolm X Park activities in general is one of the  
best things either UCD or any of its haughty rivals could do. I'm  
totally for that. It makes sense to most people who are comfortable  
living in this neighborhood. If any of you are uncomfortable with  
Malcolm X Park, call me and talk to me. Yes,  it is very much part  
of our neighborhood and a very safe and well-maintained space, I  
might add.


-- Tony West


Ray wrote:

ucd states on their website precisely where their
boundaries are, and that's where everyone funding ucd
expects them to be servicing. and that's where ucd claims all its  
credit, it's where ucd draws its statistics to write up its report  
cards, etc.


this incident involved taking workers away from servicing an area  
within the ucd boundaries to an area outside the ucd boundaries.  
workers that included ucd staff as well as 2 penn students.




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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Bill Sanderson]

I hate to say this, but it seems to me that you need to file whatever it is
you are going to file now  I'll be interested to see what comes of
it-nothing good, I believe.  I don't expect any organization to release
details of internal investigations.  You've read as much as the press is
likely to publish about what actually happened.  You are a federal taxpayer,
I assume, so perhaps you have standing.  What precisely do you expect to
hear that you make you stand down and not file?

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:47 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

 

In a message dated 5/24/2007 4:27:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I think Sharrif already answered that very well. UCD's accountable to the
people who are paying for it to exist. It's a private entity. In order for
it to be beholden to "the people who live in the area bounded by the UCD" it
would have to be funded by the public. Until that time, they can do whatever
they feel like as long as their funders are happy and don't stop sending
checks.

With respect to political activity, that's incorrect. As a 501-(c)-3
operation, UCD is tax exempt and therefore is getting support from the
taxpayers as a group. The IRS has strict rules prohibiting partisan
politics, the violation of which can not only take away the tax exemption
but make them liable for back taxes and penalties. We're talking about a
serious issue here, and big bucks. Thiose rules are there for a reason, and
have been in place long enough to have been honed by experience -- including
judicial decisions.

 

The "non-profit" and "not-for-profit" sector is neither the "public" nor the
"private" sector, but something in between. The managers of organizations in
the non-profit sector have an obligation to ensure that they strictly follow
the tight constraints under which they operate without paying taxes, and
therefore get indirect support from those who do. Wendell Lewis may try to
shove this off onto John Fenton and make a scapegoat or sacrificial lamb of
the guy. But Wendell is ultimately responsible for operating the
organization in such a way that this serious infraction (serious as defined
by the IRS) could happen -- if indeed it did happen as the reports appear
increasingly strongly to indicate.

 

And, of course, the reason I'm being such a nit-picker about it has to do
with the fact that it exposes the potential for abuse the NONID faction has
been pointing out since long before the NID initiative got onto the table. 

 

Al Krigman
Left of Ivan Grozny





  _  

See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> . 

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Bill Sanderson]

Right-there is a state registration process, although I'm not sure what the
rules are for charitable fundraising-but that is what the state regulates.
The Feds regulate the issues relating to the organizations activities and
whether they fit the definition of 501c3 tax exempt organizations.

 

  _  

From: S. Sharrieff Ali [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:47 PM
To: 'Bill Sanderson'; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

 

Q: Do all states require a registration?

A: Most states have some type of registration or filing process. It is
necessary for organizations 

contemplating fundraising activities in other states to research the
individual state reporting 

requirements to ensure compliance prior to soliciting. 

 

Q: What is the difference between a charitable organization and 501c3
status? 

A: A charitable organization is defined as any entity that solicits or
collects contributions from the 

public, where the contribution is, or is said to be used to support a
charitable activity. 

Charitable activity includes, but is not limited to, educational,
recreational, social, patriotic, legal defense, 

benevolent, or health causes. 

501c3 is a Federal tax exempt status granted by the Internal Revenue
Service. Certain requirements 

established through the Internal Revenue Code must be met in order to
receive tax exempt status. 

For specific information regarding the application process, please refer to
the IRS Web site at 

www.IRS.gov or call the Exempt Organizations Division at (877) 829-5500.

Will my nonprofit be given a 501c3 number separate from its EIN?

No. Your EIN is the only number federally associated with your organization.
If you apply for and receive 

sales tax-exemption in your state, you may have a number issued by that
state agency that is different 

from your EIN. 

 

So yes, correction, mostly Federal IRS and some State guidelines.

Bill I agree, it is not likely this stuff would hit anybodies radar.

S

 

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bill Sanderson
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:21 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

 

I believe that the 501c3 status comes from the Feds, not the state.  It is
federal taxes that contributions to such organizations can be exempted from,
not state taxes.

 

I suspect the possibility of this incident arousing enough interest in a
Federal (anything) to prompt some action is near zero, but maybe I lack
imagination.  Not saying that there wasn't a situation that could be
construed as a violation, but I suspect that the folks who would look at
this have bigger fish to fry.

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of S. Sharrieff Ali
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:26 PM
To: 'UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN'; 'University City List'
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

 

UCD management is accountable to it's Board of Directors.

 

UCD management by mission is accountable in part to those it 

services through geographic boundaries, it's relationships of 

support (which would include ALL the local politicians), and 

individuals who donate money to supplement the on-going 

institutional support.

 

UCD management is accountable in part to the State of Pennsylvania 

based on it's 501-C3 status.

 

If sustained funding were to happen through a local assessment,

then, in that case the UCD management would be accountable to 

the public interest based on that assessment and still would be 

accountable to a Board of Directors representative of that interest.

 

S

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Anthony West]

As a park activist, I'd have to say this argument is thin. If you serve a 
community of residents within certain boundaries, but one of their dedicated 
facilities lies one block beyond those boundaries, a wise and responsible 
community organization will seek to extend them some coverage. It's 
meaningless that some neighborhood service lies one block outside some 
boundary. Suppose the West Philadelphia Y requested some assistance from 
UCD -- would that bother you? I'm asking for the opinion of every neighbor 
on this list as well as yours.


I personally know readers of UC-list who are also Friends of Malcolm X 
Park. How many readers have been quietly thinking Greg Cojulun is doing a 
lousy job, over at  Malcolm X Park? By contrast, how many readers have 
noticed how much better Malcolm X Park has been looking, compared to 1997? 
If you belong to the latter group (aka the not-insane group)


Facilitating Malcolm X Park activities in general is one of the best things 
either UCD or any of its haughty rivals could do. I'm totally for that. It 
makes sense to most people who are comfortable living in this neighborhood. 
If any of you are uncomfortable with Malcolm X Park, call me and talk to me. 
Yes,  it is very much part of our neighborhood and a very safe and 
well-maintained space, I might add.


-- Tony West


Ray wrote:

ucd states on their website precisely where their
boundaries are, and that's where everyone funding ucd
expects them to be servicing. and that's where ucd claims all its credit, 
it's where ucd draws its statistics to write up its report cards, etc.


this incident involved taking workers away from servicing an area within 
the ucd boundaries to an area outside the ucd boundaries. workers that 
included ucd staff as well as 2 penn students.




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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Ross Bender]

On 5/24/07, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



and let's calm down about taking the heat. this is an open
conversation, remember, not an argument.



Right. Arguments are in 12A, down the hall:

Q:   WHAT DO YOU WANT?
M:   Well, I was told outside that...
Q:   Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
M:   What?
Q:   Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you
vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
M:   Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Q:   OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M:   Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Q:   Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
M:   Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Q:   Not at all.
M:   Thank You.


Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Ross Bender wrote:


UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

and let's calm down about taking the heat. this is an open
conversation, remember, not an argument.




Right. Arguments are in 12A, down the hall:

Q:   WHAT DO YOU WANT?
M:   Well, I was told outside that...
Q:   Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
M:   What?
Q:   Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you
vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
M:   Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Q:   OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M:   Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Q:   Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
M:   Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Q:   Not at all.
M:   Thank You.




hahaha   for so long now I've wanted to post the whole 
'argument' vs 'abuse' dialoge from the monty python days... 
because we so often beat each other up onlist, and it's absurd.


thanks :-)



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.













































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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Kyle Cassidy wrote:

I think Sharrif already answered that very well. UCD's
accountable to the people who are paying for it to exist.
It's a private entity. In order for it to be beholden to
"the people who live in the area bounded by the UCD" it
would have to be funded by the public. Until that time,
they can do whatever they feel like as long as their
funders are happy and don't stop sending checks.

This does bring up an interesting point though, if the
NID had passed, UCD would be beholden to Jannie
Blackwell, who is the elected representative of the
people who live in the area bounded by the UCD.



I'll just add:

ucd states on their website precisely where their
boundaries are, and that's where everyone funding ucd
expects them to be servicing. and that's where ucd claims 
all its credit, it's where ucd draws its statistics to write 
up its report cards, etc.


this incident involved taking workers away from servicing an 
area within the ucd boundaries to an area outside the ucd 
boundaries. workers that included ucd staff as well as 2 
penn students.


melani in her defense/support of ucd has often insisted
onlist that ucd doesn't service the penn campus, that ucd is
for US in the neighborhood, etc... and it's been pointed out
by ucd themselves that they can't adequately cover the
district as defined without much more $$ etc., so this 
question of being 'beholden to the people who live in the 
area bounded by the ucd' is an important one, and goes 
beyond simply those who currently write the checks. we (all 
of us in the neighborhood) are necessarily stakeholders, are 
necessarily implicated in whatever ucd does. by ucd's own 
admission.


and contrary to what you might think, our stakeholder 
relationship with ucd becomes even more pronounced under a 
nid, and this incident speaks volumes about what we might 
expect if ucd was a nid. the whole issue of nid boundaries 
becomes even more crucial -- for justifying a nid, for 
defining how much $$ folks are assessed, for defining who 
benefits and how much.


we could use this incident to think more thoughtfully about 
the premise that ucd exists to service US, that they're 
responsible to US, and how this US is served, allegations or 
not.





..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.




















































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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Anthony West wrote:
In all fairness, to distinguish UCD from us implies that UCD is not a 
part of us. If by "us" you mean "readers of this listserve," then a few 
days ago you noted some UCD workers are part of us. Surely that's not 
what you're wishing to say now, though.


So define an "us" that is not UCD, that UCD can respond to, especially 
if that "us" assumes some financial responsibility for UCD.


I can think of possible "usses", but I won't name them, no matter how 
theoretically, because I don't want the heat. That's why I invited you 
to do the initial round of naming, Ray.


If no one steps forward to define such an "us" for us, then, sadly, I 
don't see how it can ever proceed to Points 2, 3 ... x. Who will bell 
the cat? as the old fable goes. In that case, this attractive inquiry 
would be better set aside, I fear.




earlier today, sharrieff stepped forward and offered one 
definition of 'us':



UCD management is accountable to it's Board of Directors.
 
UCD management by mission is accountable in part to those it 
services through geographic boundaries, it's relationships of 
support (which would include ALL the local politicians), and 
individuals who donate money to supplement the on-going 
institutional support.
 
UCD management is accountable in part to the State of Pennsylvania 
based on it's 501-C3 status.
 
If sustained funding were to happen through a local assessment,
then, in that case the UCD management would be accountable to 
the public interest based on that assessment and still would be 
accountable to a Board of Directors representative of that interest.



anyone care to take it from there?

and let's calm down about taking the heat. this is an open 
conversation, remember, not an argument.




..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
[catching up...]





































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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Wilma de Soto]

Actually, it¹s sounds like what happens Œdowntown¹; ³Yo, I took care of dat
Œting for youse.²

The UCD should either be above that or declare their intentions all along.

I feel for John Fenton.


On 5/24/07 11:05 AM, "Kyle Cassidy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal with this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
> 
> 
> you've just described exactly what a pr professional
> SHOULDN'T do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Wilma de Soto]

Actually, if the UCD should want all of us (businesses and residents)
eventually to help sustain them and contribute, they should be more open
since they are a community-based non-profit.

I think John Fenton is the wonderful.  I wish he had not been caught up into
this "chanchuyo".


On 5/24/07 10:45 AM, "S. Sharrieff Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Kyle, your comments would make sense if ABC News,
> Daily News, DP, UC-Review (cover story), City Paper
> had not covered the story and it was just "gossip".
> 
> Once it broke in The Daily News, they should have
> prepared a coherent statement for the public via their
> web-site supporting John until further notice since
> he was suspended "with pay".
> 
> It really looked ridiculous to have one of the student
> community service workers quoting Lewis Wendell saying
> he called me and said "I didn't know anything about this".
> 
> Asleep at the wheel? ...again?
> 
> If you are paying someone 74K a year to handle public
> relations, they should understand the value of transparency
> in a situation like this.
> 
> So..lets VOTE!!!
> 
> 
> A)  Totally Clueless
> 
> B)  Hiding Something
> 
> C)  All of the Above
> 
> 
> 
> S
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Kyle Cassidy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:31 AM
> To: S. Sharrieff Ali; UnivCity@list.purple.com
> Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
> 
> 
>> Oh..I forgot..where is their statement again?
> 
> 
> 
>  They probably just don't want to draw attention to it. 99% of the
> people in this neighborhood, I'll bet, have zero idea that this is
> happening. I think any PR flackette, whether trying to scrape by on
> $74,000 a year or not, would advise "don't make a lot of noise about
> this, wait till the investigation's over, keep emptying trash cans and
> sweeping the streets."
> 
> 
> 
> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
> list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
> <http://www.purple.com/list.html>.



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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Anthony West]

In all fairness, to distinguish UCD from us implies that UCD is not a part 
of us. If by "us" you mean "readers of this listserve," then a few days ago 
you noted some UCD workers are part of us. Surely that's not what you're 
wishing to say now, though.


So define an "us" that is not UCD, that UCD can respond to, especially if 
that "us" assumes some financial responsibility for UCD.


I can think of possible "usses", but I won't name them, no matter how 
theoretically, because I don't want the heat. That's why I invited you to do 
the initial round of naming, Ray.


If no one steps forward to define such an "us" for us, then, sadly, I don't 
see how it can ever proceed to Points 2, 3 ... x. Who will bell the cat? as 
the old fable goes. In that case, this attractive inquiry would be better 
set aside, I fear.


-- Tony West

I began with the idea that ucd is primarily accountable to us, not to 
itself. you put the word 'us' in quotes, and now you want to know who/what 
this 'us' is. so do I. so let's give others a chance to contribute.


all we have thus far is that ucd is primarily accountable to some entity 
other than itself.




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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Matthew Snyder]

Kyle Cassidy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 and likewise, if it was the _church_ who invited jannie and tom to speak,
they should also lose their 501c tax exempt status.


As long as the church invited all of the candidates to their rally and
offered them all equal time with equal terms, they should be in the
clear.  I have no idea whether that happened.  But it is not against
the rules for a candidate to speak at a church event as long as all
candidates get the same opportunity and as long as the events do not
involve fund-raising.

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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Kyle Cassidy]

i agree -- if we're talking about the political rally -- i was strictly 
answering ray's question about UCD being able to operate outside the boundaries 
of the district.

and likewise, if it was the _church_ who invited jannie and tom to speak, they 
should also lose their 501c tax exempt status.


>With respect to political activity, that's incorrect. As a 501-(c)-3 
>operation, 
>UCD is tax exempt and therefore is getting support from the taxpayers as a 
>group. 
>The IRS has strict rules prohibiting partisan politics, the violation of which 
>can 
>not only take away the tax exemption but make them liable for back taxes and 
>penalties. 
>We're talking about a serious issue here, and big bucks. Thiose rules are 
>there for a 
>reason, and have been in place long enough to have been honed by experience -- 
>including 
>judicial decisions.
 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Anthony West wrote:
So let's continue, Ray. Can you please (insert whom), for starters? If 
you want UCD to be more accountable to (whom) than it now is, how might 
you define (whom) and how would (who) pay money to UCD, so that it might 
be held more accountable to them?


This is necessary question if we are to talk about accountability. Name 
some names, for instance.




I began with the idea that ucd is primarily accountable to 
us, not to itself. you put the word 'us' in quotes, and now 
you want to know who/what this 'us' is. so do I. so let's 
give others a chance to contribute.


all we have thus far is that ucd is primarily accountable to 
some entity other than itself.



I'll add a second idea, to explore this idea of accountability:

2. ucd's performance/activities should be 
evaluated/investigated by an independent agency (insert whom)


















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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[BruceWMcC]

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 4:56:11 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 
Why pretend to  wait?


Are you calling me a liar?



Nope, just lining up the statements and asking a rhetorical question.
 
Bruce McCullough



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Mike V.]

Belligerence is not a reasonable answer to someone taking issue with
your consistency of thought.
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 4:55 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



In a message dated 5/24/2007 4:46:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Why pretend to wait?

Are you calling me a liar?
 
Al K




  _  

See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> . 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 4:46:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Why pretend to  wait?


Are you calling me a liar?
 
Al K



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 4:27:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I think Sharrif already answered that very well. UCD's accountable to  the 
people who are paying for it to exist. It's a private entity. In order for  it 
to be beholden to "the people who live in the area bounded by the UCD" it  
would have to be funded by the public. Until that time, they can do whatever  
they 
feel like as long as their funders are happy and don't stop sending  checks.



With respect to political activity, that's incorrect. As a 501-(c)-3  
operation, UCD is tax exempt and therefore is getting support from the  
taxpayers as 
a group. The IRS has strict rules prohibiting partisan politics,  the 
violation of which can not only take away the tax exemption but make them  
liable for 
back taxes and penalties. We're talking about a serious issue here,  and big 
bucks. Thiose rules are there for a reason, and have been in place long  enough 
to have been honed by experience -- including judicial decisions.
 
The "non-profit" and "not-for-profit" sector is neither the "public" nor  the 
"private" sector, but something in between. The managers of organizations in  
the non-profit sector have an obligation to ensure that they strictly  follow 
the tight constraints under which they operate without paying taxes,  and 
therefore get indirect support from those who do. Wendell Lewis may try to  
shove 
this off onto John Fenton and make a scapegoat or sacrificial lamb of the  
guy. But Wendell is ultimately responsible for operating the  organization in 
such a way that this serious infraction (serious as defined by  the IRS) could 
happen -- if indeed it did happen as the reports appear  increasingly strongly 
to indicate.
 
And, of course, the reason I'm being such a nit-picker about it has to do  
with the fact that it exposes the potential for abuse the NONID faction has 
been 
 pointing out since long before the NID initiative got onto the table.  

Al  Krigman
Left of Ivan Grozny




** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[BruceWMcC]

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 4:37:12 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 4:24:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Yeah..but that is the point Al..Did someone file a complaint  and if so 
where or what is the  evidence? And..If so  ..than why not just say so?


I have no idea whether anybody has, at this point.
 
But, consistent with my belief that we should not be rushing to  judgement, I 
may do so when the details of the "internal investigation" are  released. 
Details including procedures as well as findings. Or, if the details  are not 
released.



Why pretend to wait?
 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:28:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

We DO know that UCD has not been forthright or transparent about  discussing 
this issue in the open. And while some aspects of the issue this  might have 
been acceptable to safeguard the privacy and other rights of John  Fenton 
before Channel 6 identified him (the DN, as I recall, didn't name  names), once 
he 
had been "outed" UCD could have gone totally public.
 
So, if this is what we're "judging," the evidence is in. And UCD is  guilty.

Bruce McCullough



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 4:24:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Yeah..but that is the point Al..Did someone file a complaint  and if so 
where or what is the  evidence? And..If so ..than  why not just say so?


I have no idea whether anybody has, at this point.
 
But, consistent with my belief that we should not be rushing to judgement,  I 
may do so when the details of the "internal investigation" are released.  
Details including procedures as well as findings. Or, if the details are not  
released.
 
As, by the way, I would have if UCD had not complied with the legally  
mandated requirement that they compy with my request for their IRS filing  
(which, 
after some fits and starts for which I gave them the benefit of the  doubt, 
they did).  

Al  Krigman
Left of the False Dmitri




** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Kyle Cassidy]

I think Sharrif already answered that very well. UCD's accountable to the 
people who are paying for it to exist. It's a private entity. In order for it 
to be beholden to "the people who live in the area bounded by the UCD" it would 
have to be funded by the public. Until that time, they can do whatever they 
feel like as long as their funders are happy and don't stop sending checks.

This does bring up an interesting point though, if the NID had passed, UCD 
would be beholden to Jannie Blackwell, who is the elected representative of the 
people who live in the area bounded by the UCD.

kc

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Anthony West
Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 4:13 PM
To: University City List
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
 
So let's continue, Ray. Can you please (insert whom), for starters? If you 
want UCD to be more accountable to (whom) than it now is, how might you 
define (whom) and how would (who) pay money to UCD, so that it might be held 
more accountable to them?

This is necessary question if we are to talk about accountability. Name some 
names, for instance.

-- Tony West

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Yeah..but that is the point Al..Did someone file a complaint and if so
where or what is the evidence? And..If so ..than why not just say so?
 
It is not likely the person who spoke to the news filed a complaint, he
probably would have said so. If he did file a complaint than it was so
not smart to get a call directly from Lewis Wendell "after" filing the 
complaint.
 
Doesn't add up. 
 
Look..I respect John and I think he is getting railroaded.
 
 
S
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:45 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 3:22:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I suspect the possibility of this incident arousing enough interest in a
Federal (anything) to prompt some action is near zero, but maybe I lack
imagination.  Not saying that there wasn't a situation that could be
construed as a violation, but I suspect that the folks who would look at
this have bigger fish to fry.
Don't bet on it. Especially if someone lodged a formal complaint. 
 
Al Krigman
Left of Ivan Grozny



  _  

See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> . 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Anthony West]

So let's continue, Ray. Can you please (insert whom), for starters? If you 
want UCD to be more accountable to (whom) than it now is, how might you 
define (whom) and how would (who) pay money to UCD, so that it might be held 
more accountable to them?


This is necessary question if we are to talk about accountability. Name some 
names, for instance.


-- Tony West

The only way that could possibly come into being in real life, though, 
is if UCD becomes primarily, or significantly, funded by "us."


Do you have any suggestions on how that might be arranged, Ray? I'm not 
demanding final, flawless blueprints ... just a general line of inquiry 
that could be pursued and developed. If you can share any sort of answer 
with us, I'll be most grateful.



so let's continue:

1. ucd is primarily accountable to (insert whom), not to ucd.
..



[aka ray]




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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Q: Do all states require a registration?
A: Most states have some type of registration or filing process. It is
necessary for organizations 
contemplating fundraising activities in other states to research the
individual state reporting 
requirements to ensure compliance prior to soliciting. 
 
Q: What is the difference between a charitable organization and 501c3
status? 
A: A charitable organization is defined as any entity that solicits or
collects contributions from the 
public, where the contribution is, or is said to be used to support a
charitable activity. 
Charitable activity includes, but is not limited to, educational,
recreational, social, patriotic, legal defense, 
benevolent, or health causes. 
501c3 is a Federal tax exempt status granted by the Internal Revenue
Service. Certain requirements 
established through the Internal Revenue Code must be met in order to
receive tax exempt status. 
For specific information regarding the application process, please refer
to the IRS Web site at 
www.IRS.gov or call the Exempt Organizations Division at (877) 829-5500.
Will my nonprofit be given a 501c3 number separate from its EIN?
No. Your EIN is the only number federally associated with your
organization. If you apply for and receive 
sales tax-exemption in your state, you may have a number issued by that
state agency that is different 
from your EIN. 
 
So yes, correction, mostly Federal IRS and some State guidelines.
Bill I agree, it is not likely this stuff would hit anybodies radar.
S
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Sanderson
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 3:21 PM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
 
I believe that the 501c3 status comes from the Feds, not the state.  It
is federal taxes that contributions to such organizations can be
exempted from, not state taxes.
 
I suspect the possibility of this incident arousing enough interest in a
Federal (anything) to prompt some action is near zero, but maybe I lack
imagination.  Not saying that there wasn't a situation that could be
construed as a violation, but I suspect that the folks who would look at
this have bigger fish to fry.
 
  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of S. Sharrieff Ali
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:26 PM
To: 'UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN'; 'University City List'
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
 
UCD management is accountable to it's Board of Directors.
 
UCD management by mission is accountable in part to those it 
services through geographic boundaries, it's relationships of 
support (which would include ALL the local politicians), and 
individuals who donate money to supplement the on-going 
institutional support.
 
UCD management is accountable in part to the State of Pennsylvania 
based on it's 501-C3 status.
 
If sustained funding were to happen through a local assessment,
then, in that case the UCD management would be accountable to 
the public interest based on that assessment and still would be 
accountable to a Board of Directors representative of that interest.
 
S

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 3:22:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I suspect the  possibility of this incident arousing enough interest in a 
Federal (anything)  to prompt some action is near zero, but maybe I lack 
imagination.  Not  saying that there wasn’t a situation that could be construed 
as a 
violation,  but I suspect that the folks who would look at this have bigger 
fish to  fry.


Don't bet on it. Especially if someone lodged a formal complaint.  

Al  Krigman
Left of Ivan Grozny




** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Bill Sanderson]

I believe that the 501c3 status comes from the Feds, not the state.  It is
federal taxes that contributions to such organizations can be exempted from,
not state taxes.

 

I suspect the possibility of this incident arousing enough interest in a
Federal (anything) to prompt some action is near zero, but maybe I lack
imagination.  Not saying that there wasn't a situation that could be
construed as a violation, but I suspect that the folks who would look at
this have bigger fish to fry.

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of S. Sharrieff Ali
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:26 PM
To: 'UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN'; 'University City List'
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

 

UCD management is accountable to it's Board of Directors.

 

UCD management by mission is accountable in part to those it 

services through geographic boundaries, it's relationships of 

support (which would include ALL the local politicians), and 

individuals who donate money to supplement the on-going 

institutional support.

 

UCD management is accountable in part to the State of Pennsylvania 

based on it's 501-C3 status.

 

If sustained funding were to happen through a local assessment,

then, in that case the UCD management would be accountable to 

the public interest based on that assessment and still would be 

accountable to a Board of Directors representative of that interest.

 

S

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

UCD management is accountable to it's Board of Directors.
 
UCD management by mission is accountable in part to those it 
services through geographic boundaries, it's relationships of 
support (which would include ALL the local politicians), and 
individuals who donate money to supplement the on-going 
institutional support.
 
UCD management is accountable in part to the State of Pennsylvania 
based on it's 501-C3 status.
 
If sustained funding were to happen through a local assessment,
then, in that case the UCD management would be accountable to 
the public interest based on that assessment and still would be 
accountable to a Board of Directors representative of that interest.
 
S
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 1:06 PM
To: University City List
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
 
> Ray wrote:
>> I'll certainly share ideas onlist with people about what those 
>> responsibilities are, what we expect, etc. -- so long as we're
sharing 
>> and not arguing. deal?
>>
>> I'll begin:
>>
>> 1. ucd is primarily accountable to us, not to ucd.
 
 
> Anthony West wrote:
>> Deal.
>> 
>> That is a very attractive idea indeed.
>> 
>> The only way that could possibly come into being in real life,
though, 
>> is if UCD becomes primarily, or significantly, funded by "us."
>> 
>> Do you have any suggestions on how that might be arranged, Ray? I'm
not 
>> demanding final, flawless blueprints ... just a general line of
inquiry 
>> that could be pursued and developed. If you can share any sort of
answer 
>> with us, I'll be most grateful.
 
 
 
 
so let's continue:
 
1. ucd is primarily accountable to (insert whom), not to ucd.
 
 
 
..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeamR]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Ray wrote:
I'll certainly share ideas onlist with people about what those 
responsibilities are, what we expect, etc. -- so long as we're sharing 
and not arguing. deal?


I'll begin:

1. ucd is primarily accountable to us, not to ucd.




Anthony West wrote:

Deal.

That is a very attractive idea indeed.

The only way that could possibly come into being in real life, though, 
is if UCD becomes primarily, or significantly, funded by "us."


Do you have any suggestions on how that might be arranged, Ray? I'm not 
demanding final, flawless blueprints ... just a general line of inquiry 
that could be pursued and developed. If you can share any sort of answer 
with us, I'll be most grateful.





so let's continue:

1. ucd is primarily accountable to (insert whom), not to ucd.



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.






























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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Here is what I would have done:
 
1)   Not suspended John at all. Why? Because suspending him with pay
sends mixed messages.
If he is presumed innocent then why suspend, if he is presumed guilty
then why with pay?
 
2)   Keeping John working says.."we are not going to make a big deal
out of this unless there is a big deal".
What is the big deal?  :
A)  A formal complaint
B)  Some sort of formal reprimand from the State of PA
C)  Money changed hands as a payment to John or UCD from Knox or
Blackwell with proof
D)  Someone was injured and a legal case was opened.
 
3)   If none of the above happened then here is the press release I
would have issued and posted to
  the UCD web-site:
 
"On behalf of UCD and its Board, we are now aware of news reports
containing a statement from a community
service volunteer who felt his community service hours were somehow
mismanaged by UCD after being
assigned to what he termed "a political rally". To date, UCD has been
assured by our Councilwoman 
Jannie Blackwell, the community related event, while serving to provide
community exposure to a potential 
Mayoral candidate, was simply a "community event" and not specifically a
political rally.
 
On behalf of UCD and it's Board I personally contacted the person who
complained in the interview and offered
our sincere apology for any discomfort he may have experienced being in
the same public park as Tom Knox.
 
On behalf of it's Board, UCD will conduct an investigation based on any
formal complaints received. For now, 
we feel it is totally appropriate to support our Supervisor Mr. John
Fenton who was mentioned in reports as the
supervisor on duty.
 
Please forward any inquiries to our 73K a year PR department
professional, attn: Whoever
 
Lewis Wendell. Executive Director UCD
 
(with minor edits of course)
 
4)   If there are any formal complaints, UCD should make them known
in a statement or let us know on advise
of legal based on a complaint or legal filing, they can not issue a
statement but will keep the "public" and UCD
supporters up-dated.
 
5)   If for whatever reason some evidence surfaced connecting John
to some illegal or unethical behavior, then, I would suspend
pending the outcome of any full investigation or legal proceedings.
 
 
The way the whole thing is being handled is an insult to an employee of
an obviously ungrateful organization.

 Clearly a mockery of public trust and interest.
 
S
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:30 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
 
I read your questions regarding the logic behind the UCD's responses to
the Fenton debacle.  I see the whole event differently and I'll need a
bit of a far reaching analogy to get my point across:
 
Imagine the mountains of Afghanistan and a group of our Special Forces
is trying to get certain things accomplished (find Bin Laden or
something like that).  They have a Commander that has gotten accustomed
to operating in that world.  He has learned to make friends with the
Warlords and thieves and smugglers and hookers of the area.  He gets his
best information by befriending and often paying these various seedy
characters.  Sometimes he even smuggles them guns and/or drugs to get
the information.  He is the most effective operator that we have there.
 
One day some rouge reporter discovers some paper trail of payments from
this US commander to a Warlord who also happens to have ties to Bin
Laden.  It gets out into the mainstream press and the US government ends
up court-martialing the Commander and publicly humiliating him as they
insist that they will have nothing to do with this kind of dealing.
 
This is how I see John Fenton  in a much less dramatic situation.
He has always been able to get things done.  He always seems to have
those direct contacts to people who seem to owe him reciprocal favors.
I figure that he was just doing what he does:  washing Janies hands
without knowing what the ultimate return would be.
 
If this is the correct depiction of the events then it's always a shame
when the "Dirty Harry" character has to be sacrificed in order to
protect the image of the establishment.
 
If this is not what happened then I hope all the readers enjoyed my
little fictional story.



  _  

See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> . 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Matthew Snyder]

UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

is malcolm x park within the ucd district boundaries?


No.  Here's what UCD says about their boundaries:

University City boundaries are, on the east, 29th Street and the
Schuylkill River; on the west, 50th Street; on the north, Spring
Garden Street (to 40th Street), Powelton Avenue (to 44th Street), and
Market Street; and on the south, Civic Center Boulevard, University
Avenue and Woodland Avenue.

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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Anthony West]

Deal.

That is a very attractive idea indeed.

The only way that could possibly come into being in real life, though, is if 
UCD becomes primarily, or significantly, funded by "us."


Do you have any suggestions on how that might be arranged, Ray? I'm not 
demanding final, flawless blueprints ... just a general line of inquiry that 
could be pursued and developed. If you can share any sort of answer with us, 
I'll be most grateful.


-- Tony West

Ray wrote:
I'll certainly share ideas onlist with people about what those 
responsibilities are, what we expect, etc. -- so long as we're sharing and 
not arguing. deal?


I'll begin:

1. ucd is primarily accountable to us, not to ucd.




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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Mike V.]

Come on, Al.  How about a little "honesty and candor" here?
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:41 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:30:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I think I may have asked this before, Al, but how much do you make?  I
just want to know so that I can call you the "$xxx,xxx,xxx landlord"
instead of referring to you by name.
 

When my income is obtained from the taxpayers under threat of legal
action for withholding the surcharges placed on them for their share, it
will be a matter of public record. Then if you're one of those paying or
subject to its "police powers," you'll not only know it but will be
within both your rights and your propriety to critize the amount if you
think it's too much.
 
Al Krigman
The "$xxx,xxx,xxx landlord" (move aside, Dave Adelman and Michale Karp)




  _  

See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> . 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
/So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal with 
this?/


You know, I asked this question a couple of days ago, and Krigman Al 
suggested that we withhold our judgment. 

Since then, everybody's been rushing to judge. 

This listserv is impossible to satisfy.  I suspect that the UCD has come 
to the conclusion that it isn't worth trying.


So, Ray, tell us what you'd do?



hi melani. it was kyle who just said what ucd's pr flackette 
should do. are you judging me or kyle by not challenging 
kyle about that?




Kyle Cassidy wrote:
They probably just don't want to draw attention to it.
99% of the people in this neighborhood, I'll bet, have zero
idea that this is happening. I think any PR flackette,
whether trying to scrape by on $74,000 a year or not, would
advise "don't make a lot of noise about this, wait till the
investigation's over, keep emptying trash cans and sweeping
the streets."



- - - -

I think your earlier question about 'where do we go from 
here' is a good one, because an incident like this brings to 
the forefront all those questions and issues of 
accountability, oversight, transparency, process, etc. that 
we've often previously discussed onlist wrt ucd. and I've 
already offered my opinion about this incident:



this incident is certainly showing us something about what
ucd's responsibilities are, what our responsibilites are.



I'll certainly share ideas onlist with people about what 
those responsibilities are, what we expect, etc. -- so long 
as we're sharing and not arguing. deal?


I'll begin:

1. ucd is primarily accountable to us, not to ucd.




..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.






























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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:30:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I think I may have asked this before, Al,  but how much do you make?  I just 
want to know so that I can call you the  "$xxx,xxx,xxx landlord" instead of 
referring to you by name.
 



When my income is obtained from the taxpayers under threat of legal action  
for withholding the surcharges placed on them for their share, it will be a  
matter of public record. Then if you're one of those paying or subject  to its 
"police powers," you'll not only know it but will be within both  your rights 
and your propriety to critize the amount if you think it's too  much.
 
Al Krigman
The "$xxx,xxx,xxx landlord" (move aside, Dave Adelman and Michale  Karp)



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Elizabeth F Campion]

Some job descriptions are more difficult to define than others, but I
think it is fair to say...
... Once salary is accepted, work-effort is required.

Most of us know that it is not possible to please all of the people, all
of the time.
And many of us have learned to handle the rewards and dismissals that
come from being squeaky wheels.


On Thu, 24 May 2007 11:15:35 EDT [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

This listserv is impossible to satisfy.  I suspect that the UCD has come
to the conclusion that it isn't worth trying.

So, Ray, tell us what you'd do?

Melani Lamond

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Mike V.]

Apparently when "Honest" Al Krigman asks "How are you doing?", he
expects a full report on your health, how much you're paying your
doctor, a listing of potential risk factors and a stool sample.
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kyle Cassidy
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:23 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



so what's dishonest about issuing a statement to the media saying "we're
conducting an investigation"?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 11:19 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal
with this?
   

I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have
tried honesty and candor.

Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon, and
all-around crank,






See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> .

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Mike V.]

I think I may have asked this before, Al, but how much do you make?  I
just want to know so that I can call you the "$xxx,xxx,xxx landlord"
instead of referring to you by name.
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 7:45 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



In a message dated 5/23/2007 11:18:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

does anyone know how/where/when this official statement will 
be made public?

The UCReview did carry it in the article. It was one paragraph near the
end.
 
And Tony is correct in that UCD wasn't obligated in any specific way to
release this statement, nor are they obligated to disclose what they're
doing to investigate the incident, etc.
 
But what they're "obligated" to do is one thing. Something entirely
different is what an organization should do if it's trying to press an
initiative that will take taxpayers' money under force of law, and have
a quasi-governmental authority over the neighborhood and its evolution.
Especially in view of the concern expressed by many in this community
about lack of transparency, programs that do not reflect the vision of
the vast majority of stakeholders, the secretive way in which the
"steering committee" was selected &c &c &c.
 
What Wendell Lewis and the $74,000 flackette are doing is proving the
point made by the opponents of the NID, that the proposed organization
will not operate in the open. 
 
Al Krigman
Left of Alexander the Great and Bucephalis (didn't want to bring in the
guy who rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, Michael)




  _  

See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> . 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Lomb21]

I read your questions regarding the logic behind the UCD's responses to the  
Fenton debacle.  I see the whole event differently and I'll need a bit of a  
far reaching analogy to get my point across:
 
Imagine the mountains of Afghanistan and a group of our Special Forces is  
trying to get certain things accomplished (find Bin Laden or something like  
that).  They have a Commander that has gotten accustomed to operating in  that 
world.  He has learned to make friends with the Warlords and thieves  and 
smugglers and hookers of the area.  He gets his best information by  
befriending and 
often paying these various seedy characters.  Sometimes he  even smuggles 
them guns and/or drugs to get the information.  He is the  most effective 
operator that we have there.
 
One day some rouge reporter discovers some paper trail of payments from  this 
US commander to a Warlord who also happens to have ties to Bin Laden.   It 
gets out into the mainstream press and the US government ends up  
court-martialing the Commander and publicly humiliating him as they insist that 
 they will 
have nothing to do with this kind of dealing.
 
This is how I see John Fenton  in a much less dramatic  situation.  He 
has always been able to get things done.  He always  seems to have those direct 
contacts to people who seem to owe him reciprocal  favors.  I figure that he 
was just doing what he does:  washing Janies  hands without knowing what the 
ultimate return would be.
 
If this is the correct depiction of the events then it's always a shame  when 
the "Dirty Harry" character has to be sacrificed in order to protect the  
image of the establishment.
 
If this is not what happened then I hope all the readers enjoyed my little  
fictional story.



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:17:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Since  then, everybody's been rushing to judge.  


I was suggesting we withhold judgement on John Fenton because we didn't  know 
the facts (although they've slowly been emerging).
 
What's going on now is different. We DO know that Wendell Lewis declined to  
speak to the reporter from the University City Review.
 
We DO know that the $74,000 flackette declined to speak with the same  
reporter but only offered to send over the "prepared" statement.
 
We DO know that UCD has not been forthright or transparent about discussing  
this issue in the open. And while some aspects of the issue this might have 
been  acceptable to safeguard the privacy and other rights of John Fenton 
before 
 Channel 6 identified him (the DN, as I recall, didn't name names), once he 
had  been "outed" UCD could have gone totally public.
 
So, if this is what we're "judging," the evidence is in. And UCD is  guilty.
 
As far as John is concerned, that's still open.
 
Krigman Al
Left of Grozny Ivan



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Kyle Cassidy]

so what's dishonest about issuing a statement to the media saying "we're 
conducting an investigation"?



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu 5/24/2007 11:19 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] writes:

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal with 
this?


I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have tried 
honesty and candor. 
 
Always at your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident, housing provider, curmudgeon, and 
all-around crank,






See what's free at AOL.com <http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> . 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 5/24/2007 11:07:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal with  this?



I can't speak for laserbeam PR. But LOG (Left of Grozny) PR would have  tried 
honesty and candor.  

Always at  your service & ready for a dialog,
Al Krigman -- 36-year local resident,  housing provider, curmudgeon, and 
all-around  crank,




** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[MLamond]

In a message dated 5/24/07 11:07:36 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal with this?
> 
> You know, I asked this question a couple of days ago, and Krigman Al 
suggested that we withhold our judgment.   

Since then, everybody's been rushing to judge.   

This listserv is impossible to satisfy.   I suspect that the UCD has come to 
the conclusion that it isn't worth trying.

So, Ray, tell us what you'd do?

Melani Lamond





Melani Lamond, Associate Broker
Urban & Bye, Realtor
3529 Lancaster Ave.
Philadelphia, PA 19104
cell phone 215-356-7266
office phone 215-222-4800, ext. 113
office fax 215-222-1101


**
 See what's free 
at http://www.aol.com.

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Kyle Cassidy]

So what would Laserbeam PR do if you'd been hired by UCD to deal with this?




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN


you've just described exactly what a pr professional 
SHOULDN'T do.


















































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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Kyle Cassidy wrote:
 They probably just don't want to draw attention to it. 99% of the 
people in this neighborhood, I'll bet, have zero idea that this is 
happening. I think any PR flackette, whether trying to scrape by on 
$74,000 a year or not, would advise "don't make a lot of noise about 
this, wait till the investigation's over, keep emptying trash cans and 
sweeping the streets."



you've just described exactly what a pr professional 
SHOULDN'T do.


think about it. (next time you're at the green line, sipping 
your double shot latte -- while thumbing the local rags, 
browsing the online blogs, eavesdropping on the rumors 
buzzing over at the next table...)



:-\
..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.

























































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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Kyle, your comments would make sense if ABC News, 
Daily News, DP, UC-Review (cover story), City Paper 
had not covered the story and it was just "gossip". 

Once it broke in The Daily News, they should have 
prepared a coherent statement for the public via their 
web-site supporting John until further notice since
he was suspended "with pay".

It really looked ridiculous to have one of the student
community service workers quoting Lewis Wendell saying
he called me and said "I didn't know anything about this".

Asleep at the wheel? ...again?

If you are paying someone 74K a year to handle public 
relations, they should understand the value of transparency 
in a situation like this.

So..lets VOTE!!!


A)  Totally Clueless

B)  Hiding Something

C)  All of the Above



S



-Original Message-
From: Kyle Cassidy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:31 AM
To: S. Sharrieff Ali; UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


>Oh..I forgot..where is their statement again?  



 They probably just don't want to draw attention to it. 99% of the
people in this neighborhood, I'll bet, have zero idea that this is
happening. I think any PR flackette, whether trying to scrape by on
$74,000 a year or not, would advise "don't make a lot of noise about
this, wait till the investigation's over, keep emptying trash cans and
sweeping the streets."



You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Kyle Cassidy]

>Oh..I forgot..where is their statement again?  



 They probably just don't want to draw attention to it. 99% of the people in 
this neighborhood, I'll bet, have zero idea that this is happening. I think any 
PR flackette, whether trying to scrape by on $74,000 a year or not, would 
advise "don't make a lot of noise about this, wait till the investigation's 
over, keep emptying trash cans and sweeping the streets."

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Al, I will support your comments below.
 
My point is..while they are not obligated..it is just common sense
relationship and image management to do so. It makes it so "shady"
not to have transparency on their web-site.
 
Typical of UCD. I just don't "get" them at all. From a business
perspective
it would seem UCD would prefer to protect an asset such as Mr. Fenton.
 
Do they know what it would cost them to train someone into his position?

 
If someone replaced him with prior experience it would still take quite
a
bit of time to build the relationships necessary to fulfill his position
or to have 
the real "know-how" to partially fill his shoes. Regardless of any
"politics" 
involved, it doesn't make sense at the bottom-line.
 
If I were John, I would feel a bit insulted by the Board of Directors.
 
Where is their business savvy? Were is their loyalty? 
 
Oh..I forgot..where is their statement again?  
 
S
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 7:45 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
 
In a message dated 5/23/2007 11:18:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
does anyone know how/where/when this official statement will 
be made public?
The UCReview did carry it in the article. It was one paragraph near the
end.
 
And Tony is correct in that UCD wasn't obligated in any specific way to
release this statement, nor are they obligated to disclose what they're
doing to investigate the incident, etc.
 
But what they're "obligated" to do is one thing. Something entirely
different is what an organization should do if it's trying to press an
initiative that will take taxpayers' money under force of law, and have
a quasi-governmental authority over the neighborhood and its evolution.
Especially in view of the concern expressed by many in this community
about lack of transparency, programs that do not reflect the vision of
the vast majority of stakeholders, the secretive way in which the
"steering committee" was selected &c &c &c.
 
What Wendell Lewis and the $74,000 flackette are doing is proving the
point made by the opponents of the NID, that the proposed organization
will not operate in the open. 
 
Al Krigman
Left of Alexander the Great and Bucephalis (didn't want to bring in the
guy who rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, Michael)



  _  

See what's free at AOL.com
<http://www.aol.com?ncid=AOLAOF0002000503> . 

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Kyle Cassidy]

The DP article seems to present it as "politician dupes local good-guy into 
helping out disguised political ralley"

the malcom x park web page says that a church group was indeed having an event 
in the park that day and had reserved the gazebo. though i also have problems 
with UCD helping out a church group. perhaps jannie thought "i'll just pump up 
the church event with some free BBQ, and then i'll go over to the church picnic 
and campaign. how clever!"

>From the DP article:

"Blackwell admitted to asking John Fenton, who was supervising the community 
service effort, to bring 
some workers to the rally, but maintained that the event was not intended to 
represent any one political bent."

"no one political bent" just her and tom knox. that's two political bents.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
does anyone know how/where/when this official statement will
be made public?

The UCReview did carry it in the article. It was one paragraph near the end.



yes, I saw that, but do we know if that was the whole 
statement? the uc review mentions the statement, and then 
says: 'in it, Wendell states that..."




What Wendell Lewis and the $74,000 flackette are doing is proving the 
point made by the opponents of the NID, that the proposed organization 
will not operate in the open.


this incident is certainly showing us something about what 
ucd's responsibilities are, what our responsibilites are.


it seems that everyone involved in this incident has had an 
opportunity to speak publicly -- wendell, the students 
walker and doto, blackwell, knox -- everyone except john fenton.




..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
the uc review also says that, according to the student luke 
walker, ucd employees were also used to help set up the 
event, not just the 2 penn students. it was one of the 
students who broke the story to the daily news last week.
























































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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Anthony West]

They could, I suppose. But since they gave the statement to the Review, and 
the Review published it, and the Review is online, you can read it at 
www.weeklypress.com.


-- Tony West

- Original Message - 
From: "S. Sharrieff Ali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



It should be on their web-site, why should we
search around for it.




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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

It should be on their web-site, why should we 
search around for it.

S

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:17 PM
To: University City List
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Add this to the story in today's University City Review in which
Wendel  
> Lewis "said that all media contacts have to go through UCD's
spokesperson, Lori  
> Klein Brennan [aka the $74,000 flackette]... Brennan declined to go
into detail 
> but instead sent over a copy of UCD's official statement."



does anyone know how/where/when this official statement will 
be made public?


..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeamR]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
waiting to see how the dp reports this...




















































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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 5/23/2007 11:18:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

does  anyone know how/where/when this official statement will 
be made  public?


The UCReview did carry it in the article. It was one paragraph near the  end.
 
And Tony is correct in that UCD wasn't obligated in any specific  way to 
release this statement, nor are they obligated to disclose what  they're doing 
to 
investigate the incident, etc.
 
But what they're "obligated" to do is one thing. Something entirely  
different is what an organization should do if it's trying to  press an 
initiative 
that will take taxpayers' money under force of  law, and have a 
quasi-governmental authority over the neighborhood and its  evolution. 
Especially in view of 
the concern expressed by many in this community  about lack of transparency, 
programs that do not reflect the vision of the vast  majority of stakeholders, 
the secretive way in which the "steering committee"  was selected &c &c &c.
 
What Wendell Lewis and the $74,000 flackette are doing is proving the point  
made by the opponents of the NID, that the proposed organization will not  
operate in the open.  

Al  Krigman
Left of Alexander the Great and Bucephalis (didn't want to bring in  the guy 
who rode into Jerusalem on a donkey,  Michael)




** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Anthony West]

The quoted text states it was made public by UCD, as it released the 
document to the West Philadelphia Review. UCD doesn't have to do anything 
more than that. I suppose it is obligated to release it to you eventually if 
you ask for it, but I doubt there's any swift timeline requirement for their 
response. (Among other things, this small agency is now seriously 
understaffed.) Try asking nicely first and see if that helps.


The Review doesn't have to do anything with this document, legally. It might 
like to reprint the entire text to amaze UC-list with, but it can only be 
ordered to do so by a party that purchases space for that information as an 
ad. No news outlet is compelled to publish news merely because it would 
interest a reader. A lot of things would interest a reader. There is enough 
fascinating and subtle stuff going on in University City to fill a 32-page 
newspaper, but University Citoyens are notorious cheapskates, so they're 
lucky they can support a 20-pager.


-- Tony West

Add this to the story in today's University City Review in which Wendel 
Lewis "said that all media contacts have to go through UCD's 
spokesperson, Lori  Klein Brennan [aka the $74,000 flackette]... Brennan 
declined to go into detail but instead sent over a copy of UCD's official 
statement."


does anyone know how/where/when this official statement will be made 
public?




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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Amara Rockar]

both students mentioned are engineering CIT grad students so i imagine the
cow was in DRL...

On 5/23/07, Ross Bender <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




On 5/23/07, Elliot M. Stern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> At Outline of the Charter of the Student Disciplinary System, 
(http://www.upenn.edu/osc/outline.htm
> ), click on H. Imposing Sanctions on a Student 
(http://www.upenn.edu/osc/Charter.htm#label1o
> ), then scroll down to 2. Or just read 2 my cut and paste below.
> Elliot
>
>   H. Imposing Sanctions on a Student  *
> 
>
Well, Section I.B.5 says "The Student Disciplinary System does not handle
alleged violations of the University's parking regulations. "

So presumably that wasn't the offense. Wonder if the guy actually did
infiltrate a live cow into the Library, per Tony's suggestion.


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Add this to the story in today's University City Review in which Wendel  
Lewis "said that all media contacts have to go through UCD's spokesperson, Lori  
Klein Brennan [aka the $74,000 flackette]... Brennan declined to go into detail 
but instead sent over a copy of UCD's official statement."




does anyone know how/where/when this official statement will 
be made public?



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
waiting to see how the dp reports this...




















































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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[SKnight]

Absolutely ditto.  Hope he enjoys the paid vacay.
sk
  - Original Message - 
  From: Bill Sanderson<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: UnivCity@list.purple.com<mailto:UnivCity@list.purple.com> 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:53 PM
  Subject: RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


  Ditto

  I hope that the current suspension with pay is the end of it.

  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  On Behalf Of Karen Heenan
  Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:06 AM
  To: UnivCity@list.purple.com<mailto:UnivCity@list.purple.com>
  Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


  Enough already.  After everything he's done, who wouldn't give John Fenton 
  the benefit of the doubt?

  That's my .02 (and then ducking for cover like a deer in Woodland Cemetery).


  
  You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
  list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
  <http://www.purple.com/list.html<http://www.purple.com/list.html>>.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Ross Bender]

On 5/23/07, Elliot M. Stern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


At Outline of the Charter of the Student Disciplinary System, (
http://www.upenn.edu/osc/outline.htm), click on H. Imposing Sanctions on a
Student (http://www.upenn.edu/osc/Charter.htm#label1o), then scroll down
to 2. Or just read 2 my cut and paste below.
Elliot

  H. Imposing Sanctions on a Student *


Well, Section I.B.5 says "The Student Disciplinary System does not handle
alleged violations of the University's parking regulations. "

So presumably that wasn't the offense. Wonder if the guy actually did
infiltrate a live cow into the Library, per Tony's suggestion.


--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Elliot M. Stern]

r fails to take account of the outcome of the disciplinary  
proceeding, the student may appeal the grade through the existing  
academic grievance procedure for the evaluation of academic work  
established by each School and academic department.




On 23 May  2007, at 7:35 PM, Wilma de Soto wrote:


Of course, some “chanchuyo polítical”

I have never heard of internal disciplinary system that warranted  
community service of some sort.  What they did must have affected  
the community outside of as well as the Penn campus.


Still, because I’ve not heard of it doesn’t mean there has not been  
an internal disciplinary system of which I could have not known.


Different people get different consequences, both in University and  
out.



On 5/23/07 6:04 PM, "Anthony West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Probably Penn, like most schools, has some internal disciplinary  
system for students who pass out in the President's flowerbed or  
infiltrate a live cow into the library.


-- Tony West


- Original Message -

From:  Frank <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: UnivCity@list.purple.com

Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 4:20  PM

Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC  News


I realize the the Penn Police are a real police department, but   
do they have the authority to find someone guilty and sentence  
them, even to  community service?? It seems to me that they would  
be handed over to the  Philadelphia Police/court system for that.  
At least that's what happened when  I was arrested by them many  
years ago.



Frank





On May 23, 2007, at 03:38 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote:






This  wording makes clear what I suspected:  the “community  
service” was not  court-mandated, but part of some internal  
student related process at  Penn.



This takes  a lot of the issues out—the only remaining one would  
be participation by a  501c3 in partisan political work—and that  
can be debated—as Janney is  doing!







From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  On Behalf Of  Ross  Bender

Sent:  Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:00 PM
To:  UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Cc:  University City List
Subject: Re:  [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


UC Review's version is  much, much funnier:

"Reporting to the  University City District, where Penn sends  
students to atone for minor  misdeeds, Walker and his fellow   
cleaning crewmates began sweeping Powelton  Avenue."

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Wilma de Soto]

Of course, some ³chanchuyo polítical²

I have never heard of internal disciplinary system that warranted community
service of some sort.  What they did must have affected the community
outside of as well as the Penn campus.

Still, because I¹ve not heard of it doesn¹t mean there has not been an
internal disciplinary system of which I could have not known.

Different people get different consequences, both in University and out.


On 5/23/07 6:04 PM, "Anthony West" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Probably Penn, like most schools, has some internal disciplinary system for
> students who pass out in the President's flowerbed or infiltrate a live cow
> into the library.
>  
> -- Tony West
>>  
>> - Original Message -
>>  
>> From:  Frank <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>  
>> To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
>>  
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 4:20  PM
>>  
>> Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC  News
>>  
>> 
>> I realize the the Penn Police are a real police department, but  do they have
>> the authority to find someone guilty and sentence them, even to  community
>> service?? It seems to me that they would be handed over to the  Philadelphia
>> Police/court system for that. At least that's what happened when  I was
>> arrested by them many years ago.
>> 
>>  
>> Frank 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> On May 23, 2007, at 03:38 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote:
>> 
>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> This  wording makes clear what I suspected:  the ³community service² was not
>>> court-mandated, but part of some internal student related process at  Penn.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> This takes  a lot of the issues out‹the only remaining one would be
>>> participation by a  501c3 in partisan political work‹and that can be
>>> debated‹as Janney is  doing!
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]  On Behalf Of  Ross  Bender
>>> Sent:  Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:00 PM
>>> To:  UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
>>> Cc:  University City List
>>> Subject: Re:  [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
>>>  
>>>  
>>> UC Review's version is  much, much funnier:
>>> 
>>> "Reporting to the  University City District, where Penn sends students to
>>> atone for minor  misdeeds, Walker and his fellow  cleaning crewmates began
>>> sweeping Powelton  Avenue."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

That could well be true. Still, I find it hard to believe that  
today's students, especially at Penn, would put up with *any* kind of  
discipline that didn't involve a court. If a student at Roger  
Williams won't watch "An Inconvenient Truth" in class, what Penn  
student is going to sweep the street?


I know the guy who's in charge of sorority/fraternity relations. This  
doesn't involve him but he probably knows. I'll ask him.


Frank

On May 23, 2007, at 06:04 PM, Anthony West wrote:

Probably Penn, like most schools, has some internal disciplinary  
system for students who pass out in the President's flowerbed or  
infiltrate a live cow into the library.


-- Tony West
- Original Message -
From: Frank
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

I realize the the Penn Police are a real police department, but do  
they have the authority to find someone guilty and sentence them,  
even to community service?? It seems to me that they would be  
handed over to the Philadelphia Police/court system for that. At  
least that's what happened when I was arrested by them many years ago.


Frank


On May 23, 2007, at 03:38 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote:

This wording makes clear what I suspected:  the “community  
service” was not court-mandated, but part of some internal student  
related process at Penn.



This takes a lot of the issues out—the only remaining one would be  
participation by a 501c3 in partisan political work—and that can  
be debated—as Janney is doing!



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Bender

Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:00 PM
To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Cc: University City List
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


UC Review's version is much, much funnier:

"Reporting to the University City District, where Penn sends  
students to atone for minor misdeeds, Walker and his fellow  
cleaning crewmates began sweeping Powelton Avenue."

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Anthony West]

Probably Penn, like most schools, has some internal disciplinary system for 
students who pass out in the President's flowerbed or infiltrate a live cow 
into the library.

-- Tony West
  - Original Message - 
  From: Frank 
  To: UnivCity@list.purple.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 4:20 PM
  Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


  I realize the the Penn Police are a real police department, but do they have 
the authority to find someone guilty and sentence them, even to community 
service?? It seems to me that they would be handed over to the Philadelphia 
Police/court system for that. At least that's what happened when I was arrested 
by them many years ago.


  Frank




  On May 23, 2007, at 03:38 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote:


This wording makes clear what I suspected:  the “community service” was not 
court-mandated, but part of some internal student related process at Penn.



This takes a lot of the issues out—the only remaining one would be 
participation by a 501c3 in partisan political work—and that can be debated—as 
Janney is doing!






From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Bender
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:00 PM
To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Cc: University City List
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



UC Review's version is much, much funnier:

"Reporting to the University City District, where Penn sends students to 
atone for minor misdeeds, Walker and his fellow cleaning crewmates began 
sweeping Powelton Avenue." 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

I realize the the Penn Police are a real police department, but do  
they have the authority to find someone guilty and sentence them,  
even to community service?? It seems to me that they would be handed  
over to the Philadelphia Police/court system for that. At least  
that's what happened when I was arrested by them many years ago.


Frank


On May 23, 2007, at 03:38 PM, Bill Sanderson wrote:

This wording makes clear what I suspected:  the “community service”  
was not court-mandated, but part of some internal student related  
process at Penn.




This takes a lot of the issues out—the only remaining one would be  
participation by a 501c3 in partisan political work—and that can be  
debated—as Janney is doing!




From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ross Bender

Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:00 PM
To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Cc: University City List
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



UC Review's version is much, much funnier:

"Reporting to the University City District, where Penn sends  
students to atone for minor misdeeds, Walker and his fellow  
cleaning crewmates began sweeping Powelton Avenue."

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Bill Sanderson]

This wording makes clear what I suspected:  the "community service" was not
court-mandated, but part of some internal student related process at Penn.

 

This takes a lot of the issues out-the only remaining one would be
participation by a 501c3 in partisan political work-and that can be
debated-as Janney is doing!

 

  _  

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Ross Bender
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:00 PM
To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
Cc: University City List
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

 

UC Review's version is much, much funnier:

"Reporting to the University City District, where Penn sends students to
atone for minor misdeeds, Walker and his fellow cleaning crewmates began
sweeping Powelton Avenue." 

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Ross Bender]

UC Review's version is much, much funnier:

"Reporting to the University City District, where Penn sends students to
atone for minor misdeeds, Walker and his fellow cleaning crewmates began
sweeping Powelton Avenue."

Makes UCD sound some like special purgatorio where Amy sends those
misbehavin' grad students.

Also:

"Since the Daily News broke the story last Wednesday, May 16, Walker has
received several phone calls from the University of Pennsylvania's Office of
Public Safety, as well as the University City District, apologizing
profusely for what happened."

Sure would like to have the tapes of those phone calls.

Also, according to Walker, Wendell Lewis said "he didn't know anything about
it".  Also, local crank Matt Wolfe is credited with the statement about
"supporting politicians might jeopardize their nonprofit status."

Just gets juicier and juicier. The "internal investigation" sounds like one
of those Pentagon, or Justice Department jobs. Does this story have legs, or
wings, or what?

--
Ross Bender
http://rossbender.org/gentrification.html

On 5/23/07, UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
> In the end, I think everyone just wants to see that John will be ok
> and be able to continue to provide the best community support we can
> recall.
>
> Isn't that the call he answered?


did the folks on powelton avenue ever get their sweeping
done that weekend?


> Luke Walker is a grad student at Penn recently directed
> to perform 20 hours of community service for a minor
> infraction.
>
> He dutifully appeared at the University City District on
> Friday. After orientation, he was handed a broom to sweep
> Powelton Avenue. After an hour and a half, things got
> interesting.
>
> "The supervisor, John something, told us, 'We've got
> something else for you,' " Walker recalled. "They put us
> on a truck and drove north to a garage. It wasn't even in
> University City."

   cont'd  http://tinyurl.com/37djea

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Bill Sanderson]

Ditto

I hope that the current suspension with pay is the end of it.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Karen Heenan
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:06 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


Enough already.  After everything he's done, who wouldn't give John Fenton 
the benefit of the doubt?

That's my .02 (and then ducking for cover like a deer in Woodland Cemetery).



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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Hannah Draper]

It doesn't matter who likes him or not. It's like Opie & Anthony who are on
suspension from XM. A stage 2 slap on the wrist waiting to see if the
controversy dies down. If not then maybe firing. XM needs the FCC to approve
their merger with Sirius.

John does what Penn wants him to do and the community, in that overlap. A
fine job too. It's a scratch-my-back-I'll-scratch-yours system and how do
you think he was so effective at getting things done?

Maybe it's illegal. Not to mention it might have offended the mayor-elect
and a few others Penn would like to make nice to, now that the election is
done. With an article in a daily paper and now on TV, everyone pretending to
look away makes it look like business as usual. So a two-week suspension
with pay AKA a vacation but probably not deducted from his regular vacation
time. The show must go on.

HD

On May 23, 2007, at 10:48 AM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:


Karen, I don't know of ANYONE who doesn't like JOHN FENTON.

I believe our community overwhelmingly supports John in everyway. We are

not talking about him stealing money or drug dealing, some very blurry lines
were crossed and feathers ruffled. Not sure what lines, not sure who's
feathers.


My problem is, I simply don't have enough information. Particularly since

UCD hasn't said "Boo!".


What I do know, the investigation is "internal" and being supervised by

Lewis Wendell, what he is investigating, I don't know. I assume Lewis
Wendell needs to report to the Board of Directors.


I am not sure if one of the students who performed the community service

filed a complaint against UCD, or if they were contacted by a state agency
or the courts, or is this just a BIG news story for news media because it
involved Jannie Blackwell and Tom Katz?


Based on the statement in the news articles, UCD's community service

"privileges have been suspended", by whom? ..the court system?


There are lots of legal issues here, I wish our resident lawyers would

weigh in and shed some light.


In the end, I think everyone just wants to see that John will be ok and be

able to continue to provide the best community support we can recall.


Isn't that the call he answered?

S

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
In the end, I think everyone just wants to see that John will be ok 
and be able to continue to provide the best community support we can 
recall.


Isn't that the call he answered?



did the folks on powelton avenue ever get their sweeping 
done that weekend?




Luke Walker is a grad student at Penn recently directed
to perform 20 hours of community service for a minor
infraction.

He dutifully appeared at the University City District on
Friday. After orientation, he was handed a broom to sweep
Powelton Avenue. After an hour and a half, things got
interesting.

"The supervisor, John something, told us, 'We've got
something else for you,' " Walker recalled. "They put us
on a truck and drove north to a garage. It wasn't even in
University City."


  cont'd  http://tinyurl.com/37djea


..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.














































































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RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Mike V.]

At least you're consistent.
 
- Mike V.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 8:08 AM
To: univcity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News



...
 
Al Krigman (if this is being a jackass, Michael, I'm proud of it)
 
 



 

RE: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

Karen, I don't know of ANYONE who doesn't like JOHN FENTON.

I believe our community overwhelmingly supports John
in everyway. We are not talking about him stealing money 
or drug dealing, some very blurry lines were crossed
and feathers ruffled. Not sure what lines, not sure who's
feathers.

My problem is, I simply don't have enough information.
Particularly since UCD hasn't said "Boo!".

What I do know, the investigation is "internal" and
being supervised by Lewis Wendell, what he is investigating, 
I don't know. I assume Lewis Wendell needs to report to the 
Board of Directors.

I am not sure if one of the students who performed the community 
service filed a complaint against UCD, or if they were contacted 
by a state agency or the courts, or is this just a BIG news story 
for news media because it involved Jannie Blackwell and Tom Katz?

Based on the statement in the news articles, UCD's community
service "privileges have been suspended", by whom? ..the court
system?

There are lots of legal issues here, I wish our resident lawyers
would weigh in and shed some light.

In the end, I think everyone just wants to see that John will be ok 
and be able to continue to provide the best community support we can 
recall.

Isn't that the call he answered?


S

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Karen Heenan
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:06 AM
To: UnivCity@list.purple.com
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News


Enough already.  After everything he's done, who wouldn't give John
Fenton 
the benefit of the doubt?

That's my .02 (and then ducking for cover like a deer in Woodland
Cemetery).

Note to Channel 6:  if you want to try to make a mountain out of a
molehill, 
at least get the names right.  Anyone else notice that the candidate's
name 
was "Tom Katz"?

Karen Heenan

>From: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: University City List 
>Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
>Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 01:54:45 -0400
>
>Frank wrote:
>
>>Best part:
>>
>>"This was not a Knox rally. This was a community rally. I asked
nobody to 
>>do anything for a Knox rally. I asked them to do it for a  community
fair 
>>in the park where we had a church rally," said Blackwell.
>>
>>and then:
>>
>>"I'm telling the head of the UCD Board and anybody concerned, if you
have 
>>a problem with my politics, come to me. I make my decisions  about who
I 
>>endorse," said Blackwell.
>>
>>Wow. Contradictory as well as arrogant.
>>
>>Community service workers shouldn't be working for a church either,
as 
>>far as I'm concerned.
>>
>>
>>
>>S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:
>>>
>>>John Fenton is now Tom Fenton and Lewis Wendell we all know is
>>>now Wendell Lewis according to Al.
>>>
>>>The story was broadcast on Action News Channel 6 tonight at 11PM.
>>>
>>>The Community Service Program in the University City District has
been 
>>>suspended,
>>>and one of the top administrators placed on administrative leave
pending 
>>>an internal
>>>investigation.
>>>
>>>A spokesman for the Knox campaign says they had no knowledge that  
>>>students doing
>>>community service were allegedly used to set up for the appearance.
>>>The spokesman added they would have been totally against it if they
had 
>>>known.
>>>
>>>http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=politics&id=5328900
>
>
>
>is malcolm x park within the ucd district boundaries?
>
>
>
>..
>UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
>[aka laserbeamR]
>[aka ray]
>SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
>list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
><http://www.purple.com/list.html>.



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Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Karen Heenan]

Enough already.  After everything he's done, who wouldn't give John Fenton 
the benefit of the doubt?


That's my .02 (and then ducking for cover like a deer in Woodland Cemetery).

Note to Channel 6:  if you want to try to make a mountain out of a molehill, 
at least get the names right.  Anyone else notice that the candidate's name 
was "Tom Katz"?


Karen Heenan


From: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: University City List 
Subject: Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News
Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 01:54:45 -0400

Frank wrote:


Best part:

"This was not a Knox rally. This was a community rally. I asked  nobody to 
do anything for a Knox rally. I asked them to do it for a  community fair 
in the park where we had a church rally," said Blackwell.


and then:

"I'm telling the head of the UCD Board and anybody concerned, if you  have 
a problem with my politics, come to me. I make my decisions  about who I 
endorse," said Blackwell.


Wow. Contradictory as well as arrogant.

Community service workers shouldn't be working for a church either,  as 
far as I'm concerned.




S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:


John Fenton is now Tom Fenton and Lewis Wendell we all know is
now Wendell Lewis according to Al.

The story was broadcast on Action News Channel 6 tonight at 11PM.

The Community Service Program in the University City District has  been 
suspended,
and one of the top administrators placed on administrative leave  pending 
an internal

investigation.

A spokesman for the Knox campaign says they had no knowledge that  
students doing

community service were allegedly used to set up for the appearance.
The spokesman added they would have been totally against it if they  had 
known.


http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=politics&id=5328900




is malcolm x park within the ucd district boundaries?



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.






















You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.




You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
<http://www.purple.com/list.html>.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Krfapt]

 
In a message dated 5/22/2007 11:59:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

The story was broadcast on  Action News Channel 6 tonight at 11PM.


Wow!
 
Add this to the story in today's University City Review in which Wendel  
Lewis "said that all media contacts have to go through UCD's spokesperson, Lori 
 
Klein Brennan [aka the $74,000 flackette]... Brennan declined to go into detail 
 but instead sent over a copy of UCD's official statement." A statement  
undoubtedly vetted by the most expensive lawyers Penn's money could buy. (She's 
 
apparently too busy gringing out the puffery to deal with a situation  that 
could bring down the house of cards. Anybody remember Nero?)
 
I guess they don't know much about the value of transparency in a  
neighborhood where I'm not the only curmudgeonly nit-picker. And this only  
confirms 
that they're not bright enough to know how damning it can be to  stonewall. 
Apparently, they haven't read their Kipling or learned enough  from him to keep 
their heads in when a crisis breaks.
 
At any rate, the news reports ought to make even Melani wonder whether UCD  
is qualified to take our tax money to implement its own vision of the  
neighborhood. Not the incident itself, but the stonewalling and lack of  
transparency 
being exhibited in covering their little (or big, as the case may  be) toosies.
 
Al Krigman (if this is being a jackass, Michael, I'm proud of it)
 
 
IF, by Rudyard  Kipling

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
 If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
 If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
 Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
 
 If you can dream-and not make dreams your master;
If you can think-and not make thoughts your aim;
 If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
 If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
 Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

 If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
 And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
 If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
 And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"
 
 If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings-nor lose the common touch,
 If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
 If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
 Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And-which is more-you'll be a Man, my son!





** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN]

Frank wrote:


Best part:

"This was not a Knox rally. This was a community rally. I asked  nobody 
to do anything for a Knox rally. I asked them to do it for a  community 
fair in the park where we had a church rally," said Blackwell.


and then:

"I'm telling the head of the UCD Board and anybody concerned, if you  
have a problem with my politics, come to me. I make my decisions  about 
who I endorse," said Blackwell.


Wow. Contradictory as well as arrogant.

Community service workers shouldn't be working for a church either,  as 
far as I'm concerned.




S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:


John Fenton is now Tom Fenton and Lewis Wendell we all know is
now Wendell Lewis according to Al.

The story was broadcast on Action News Channel 6 tonight at 11PM.

The Community Service Program in the University City District has  
been suspended,
and one of the top administrators placed on administrative leave  
pending an internal

investigation.

A spokesman for the Knox campaign says they had no knowledge that  
students doing

community service were allegedly used to set up for the appearance.
The spokesman added they would have been totally against it if they  
had known.


http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=politics&id=5328900




is malcolm x park within the ucd district boundaries?



..
UNIVERSITY*CITOYEN
[aka laserbeam®]
[aka ray]
SERIAL LIAR. CALL FOR RATES.






















You are receiving this because you are subscribed to the
list named "UnivCity." To unsubscribe or for archive information, see
.

Re: [UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[Frank]

Best part:

"This was not a Knox rally. This was a community rally. I asked  
nobody to do anything for a Knox rally. I asked them to do it for a  
community fair in the park where we had a church rally," said Blackwell.


and then:

"I'm telling the head of the UCD Board and anybody concerned, if you  
have a problem with my politics, come to me. I make my decisions  
about who I endorse," said Blackwell.


Wow. Contradictory as well as arrogant.

Community service workers shouldn't be working for a church either,  
as far as I'm concerned.


Frank

On May 22, 2007, at 11:57 PM, S. Sharrieff Ali wrote:




John Fenton is now Tom Fenton and Lewis Wendell we all know is

now Wendell Lewis according to Al.



The story was broadcast on Action News Channel 6 tonight at 11PM.



The Community Service Program in the University City District has  
been suspended,


and one of the top administrators placed on administrative leave  
pending an internal


investigation.



A spokesman for the Knox campaign says they had no knowledge that  
students doing


community service were allegedly used to set up for the appearance.

The spokesman added they would have been totally against it if they  
had known.






http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=politics&id=5328900





S

[UC] Tom Fenton on ABC News

[S. Sharrieff Ali]

 
John Fenton is now Tom Fenton and Lewis Wendell we all know is
now Wendell Lewis according to Al.
 
The story was broadcast on Action News Channel 6 tonight at 11PM.
 
The Community Service Program in the University City District has been
suspended, 
and one of the top administrators placed on administrative leave pending
an internal 
investigation.
 
A spokesman for the Knox campaign says they had no knowledge that
students doing 
community service were allegedly used to set up for the appearance. 
The spokesman added they would have been totally against it if they had
known. 
 
 
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=politics

&id=5328900
 
 
S