Re: Reorder Lines in a List Field

[Romain Lafourcade]

Salut, I have 2 amateurish but effective scripts allowing to move a list
item up or down when clicking on the appropriate button.

Are you interested ?

Romain

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No postings since 6 June

[Signe Marie Sanne]

Title: No postings since 6 June


Will you please check to see if you have
cut me off both from the Revolution and the MetaCard discussion lists.
Thanks in advance.

Regards
Signe Marie Sanne
-- 


1. amanuensis Signe Marie Sanne  e-mail:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Romansk
Institutt    tel:  +47 55 58 21
27
Oysteins gt.
1   
5007
Bergen 
http://www.hf.uib.no/hfolk/mlab/hjem/default.html
Norway

Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 06:30 PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

As Richard points out, the number of keyword tokens that have meaning 
for the engine behind Revolution is quite phenomenal, and the 
documentation is really quite exhaustive.
I agree.  The task is huge and creating a way to address a huge amount 
of highly interrelated details is a challenge.  I think Jeanne has done 
a good job.

Dar Scott

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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/12/03 9:44 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 07:08  PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:



I've been programming for 20 years, and learnt many different 
languages and environments.  I have not found anything that comes 
close to Rev...


If this list had a "post of the month", I'd vote for this one. 
Somebody ought to frame it.




I've been programming for 20 years, and learnt many different 
languages and environments.  I have not found anything that comes 
close to Rev...


Wow. It even matches my wallpaper.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Mark Brownell]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 07:08  PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


I've been programming for 20 years, and learnt many different languages and environments.  I have not found anything that comes close to Rev...


If this list had a "post of the month", I'd vote for this one. Somebody ought to frame it.



I've been programming for 20 years, and learnt many different languages and environments.  I have not found anything that comes close to Rev...

Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/12/03 7:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


I've been programming for 20 years, and learnt many different languages 
and environments.  I have not found anything that comes close to Rev...


If this list had a "post of the month", I'd vote for this one. Somebody 
ought to frame it.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Using keyboard to control a player

[Scott Slaugh]

Hi Scott,

It appears that it is a feature.  I took out my script, and it worked fine.  
Thanks for your help!

Scott Slaugh

i think this is a "feature" of QT.

You can start/stop a movie in QT-Player with the spacebar...

Just omit that handler and see what happens when you hit the
space-key...
(Just click on the movie if nothing happens an hit space agin...)

I had to change some scripts in my last project, where i did not
get a similar script to work...
So i check for QT and have no space-bar script and if
Video for Windows is used i do...
Took me some desparate hours to find out... ;-)

Try it, it may work for you, too.

Hope that helps.



Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
_
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http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[revolution]

I agree with Richard 100%.  I think it is very far-sighted of him to see that the 
needless railing against the Rev docs can affect other users' perceptions of the 
quality of the docs and the quality of Rev.  As Richard points out, the number of 
keyword tokens that have meaning for the engine behind Revolution is quite phenomenal, 
and the documentation is really quite exhaustive.  

I've been programming for 20 years, and learnt many different languages and 
environments.  I have not found anything that comes close to Rev, and I wish Runrev 
and Metacard tremendous success.  Before I decided that Rev was one of the three or 
four technologies I needed for ANY possible application development, I looked around 
at many of the competitors.  Frankly, I think that Rev (and Metacard) are peerless in 
what they do.  Indeed, the vast power of the engine can be hidden by the simplicity 
and beauty of the language.  As Richard points out, even Javascript is more difficult 
to use than Rev.  The difference is that languages like Javascript have more 
readily-available sources of external documentation/information.  That there is not 
masses of _third party_ documentation available for Rev is not the fault of Runrev.  

We users have to make the best use of what _is_ available.  There are many places on 
the internet where if you ask for help, and what you are asking is in the manual, you 
will be told: 'RTFM'.  When I first started to use Rev, before I would post any 
questions to the list I would search the docs, search the books I had bought on 
Hypercard and Hypertalk (subsequent to buying my license for Rev), and search the 
archives for both Rev and Metacard.  Most of the time, I found the answer this way, 
and if I did not find the answer I would post my question.  I was embarrassed if it 
turned out that the answer was in one of these places but I had missed it.  I could 
not see why I should spend my time writing a clear email expressing my problem when I 
could spend the time searching for the answer, nor why I should expect someone more 
knowledgeable than myself to spend thetime explaining to me what was already publicly 
available.  Now that the docs are fully-searchable, I think there is e!
ven less reason why I should miss the answer.

I am no Transcript expert, but I found that on returning to Rev after several months 
of not using it, it took me no more than an hour to prototype an idea for a 
multi-platform, freely-distributable web server that would serve up encrypted data to 
users via a browser.  To find out the necessary information I did a Google search of 
the list, and searched the documentation, and the prototype took me 1 hour to produce.

Some of the perceived problem with the docs may be the frame of mind in which one 
approaches Rev.  At the beginning I did not fully appreciate the fact that since there 
is a 20 year history of evolution from Hypertalk to Transcript it is more likely that 
any perceived lacking in the language/environment is _probably_ a mistake on the part 
of the user (yes, we users can make mistakes), and anything that seems not to work 
_probably_ does work (it might take a little digging to get the syntax right or to 
change the way in which one thinks it _should_ work).  People, 20 years is a very long 
time in computers

My perception is that Revolution enables many people who wish to program to begin 
doing so, when the intracacies or startup requirements/costs of other environments are 
prohibitive.  Maybe it is because Rev is positioning itself as an 'easy' way into 
programming that there are users who expect it to be so simple to use that they should 
not need to look for information. But I'm quite sure that if they tried many of the 
alternatives that offer _some_ of the benefits of Rev (e.g. iShell, VB, Python, Rebol, 
Java) they would have given up already because of technical difficulties and/or price. 
 And if they did opt for one of these other programming environments, I do not think 
they would find better a better environment than Rev, or better documentation than 
that provided by Jeanne, or a more helpful support group than this. RTFM is not an 
injunction one sees often on this list.

I say all this even though I may well _perceive_ there to be _minor_ omissions in the 
documentation for Rev 2.0x, and maybe I preferred the GUI of Rev 1.1.1 .. These 
are minor or personal, and it is a 2.0 release.  Having downloaded several different 
faulty or inadequate Java IDEs in the past week, I keep on appreciating what Runrev 
does.  Of course there will be bugs in the IDE, and there may well be inconsistencies 
in the language, and there will always be features that are missing for some sub-set 
of Rev users.  But in my opinion it is a peerless tool, and Runrev are doing a great 
job.

Regards,

Bernard

>>
As a documentation professional, surely you recognize the dynamic that
occurs once the meme of "the docs are inadequate" grows legs: an elem

Re: External SDK

[Yennie]

Starting with OS X on MacOS you need to set the "externals" property, just as on Windows/Linux/UNIX systems.

For example:

on mouseUp
    answer folder "Please select your external bundle"
    set the externals of this stack to it
end mouseUp

Note that you can use relative paths also, just as with images and movies.
Also, the "externals" property can contains multiple paths, one per line.

HTH

Brian

Now, I want to use Rev 2 on OS X.
I have built the external bundle, but then what do I do with it ?
How to make it work with the stack or a standalone in Rev 2.0 ? I can't
find any tutorial for OS X.






--
Brian Yennie
Chief Technology Officer
QLD Learning, LLC
www.QLDLearning.com

PH: (904)-997-0212
EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
---

Re: External SDK

[Alex Rice]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 02:40  PM, Thierry Arbellot wrote:

I'm developing a stack with external, in Rev 1.1.1.
It does work fine on MacOS using CODE resource.
Now, I want to use Rev 2 on OS X.
I have built the external bundle, but then what do I do with it ?
How to make it work with the stack or a standalone in Rev 2.0 ? I 
can't find any tutorial for OS X.
AFAIK just treat it the same way you treat your external on Mac OS, but 
ignore the fact that it's a folder (a bundle). I believe you add it to 
your externals property, but leave off the .bundle extension.

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Rev Docs

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/12/03 4:10 PM, Dan Friedman wrote:

There's been some talk lately on this list about making a book on RR.  I say
we already have one.  And it's getting better with each release!
I have to agree. The addition of the search plug-in does it for me. That 
was the only thing that I used to wish we had, and now we do. Thanks for 
a great job, Jeanne. I know how much work you put into this, and it shows.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: External SDK

[Alex Rice]

On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 07:17  AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

I just went to http://www.metacard.com/get.html and downloaded the 
external samples from there.
I have been looking around the Metacard site and all I have found is 
the external.tgz package which consists of one example, the GameOfLife 
external. This is the same one which was the "External SDK" in Rev 
1.1.1.

Where are more examples, especially ones with comments in the C code. 
Can anyone point me in the right direction? Particularly the xgetvar, 
xsetvar, xgetarray, xsetarray functions are kind of opaque to me. I'm 
no C expert!

Jeanne, I know you said it's in the works, but it's hardly an "SDK" if 
there are very few code comments and the API is not documented anywhere!

Alex Rice, Software Developer
Architectural Research Consultants, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Consonants (was How to open Richmond's bits of fluff....)

[Emmanuel Companys]

Dear Richmond ,

Thank you for your advices. I'll probably will have to ask you when I'll begin doiing the job.

As for my friend I am not sure I will be able to contact him before the fall. I was planning just to send him your stacks, for him to play with. I thought he could be interested in using theml; but late I realized that they are more english than general phonetics.
If he, or somebody else in Toulouse would like to use tem I'll let you know first.

Добра вечер

[  By the way, do you receive my Unicode "bulgarian":words? I am taking a paent for them! ]

Rev Docs

[Dan Friedman]

Dear RR and fellow Revolutionaries,

I just wanted to take a moment to say "Thank You" to Jeanne and the entire
RR crew for your continued work on the RR Documentation.  97 out of 100
times, I can find the answer to my questions from the documentation.  Unlike
many programs you get today, the RR docs are well thought out, well written,
and easy to find what your looking for.

I'm sorry I don't post more questions to this list.  But, frankly, I find
most of my answers in the docs!  My wife calls me a "Manual Nazi", because
usually I read the manual cover to cover before I crack the seal of the
installer.  As a man who relies heavily on good documentation, I thank you.

There's been some talk lately on this list about making a book on RR.  I say
we already have one.  And it's getting better with each release!

Keep up the great work!

-Dan

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Re: Repeat request: Can anyone help with the 'printable area' problem

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 09:43 AM, Graham wrote:

Well, maybe so... until other listers speak up, I won't be able to 
prove otherwise! Doesn't anyone have any aspirations to do any form of 
precise page layout using RunRev?
I wish you the best in solving your problems, but this seems unfair.  
There might be classes of precise page layout that always use large 
margins or don't mind large margins in reduced preview pages.  An 
example might be an Id badge system.

Maybe there is a way to take this problem and turn it into a solution.  
Are these previews of pages?  One thing that I don't like is the 
unrealistic black outline of previews.

If printer properties are eventually available, what others would be 
needed?  resolution?

Dar Scott

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re: indirect variable reference

[Howard Bornstein]

>Is there a way to reference a variable through another variable in 
>Transcript?

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. The "do" construct was what I was 
looking for (although it sure would be nice to simply have an indirect 
function like value that works in both directions).

Regards,

Howard Bornstein

D E S I G N  E Q
www.designeq.com

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Re: External SDK

[Thierry Arbellot]

I'm developing a stack with external, in Rev 1.1.1.
It does work fine on MacOS using CODE resource.
Now, I want to use Rev 2 on OS X.
I have built the external bundle, but then what do I do with it ?
How to make it work with the stack or a standalone in Rev 2.0 ? I can't 
find any tutorial for OS X.

Thanks.

Thierry Arbellot.

On Thursday, Jun 5, 2003, at 17:31 Europe/Paris, Trevor DeVore wrote:

On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 11:19 AM, Alex Rice wrote:

On Thursday, June 5, 2003, at 07:17  AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

I just went to http://www.metacard.com/get.html and downloaded the 
external samples from there.  I also downloaded metacard to test the 
sample external with and everything worked fine except on OS X you 
need to change the name of the compiled bundle to "external" rather 
than "external.bundle" for it to work with the sample metacard 
stack.  Creating externals with these samples has worked in Rev 2.0 
as well.
Also remember that on Mac, the binary format used by metacard has 
changed from CFM to Mach-O. The programming interface for externals 
is the same, I guess, but they will need to be recompiled to work on 
Rev 2.0.

I remember reading Jeanne is working on some SDK tutorials and such. 
How is it coming? :-)
The externals available from the MetaCard website have been updated to 
work with the latest engine on OS X.  There is a Project Builder 
project that you can use.

Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
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Re: Reorder Lines in a List Field

[François Cuneo]

> --- Fran?ois Cuneo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi everybody!
>> Is it possible to reorder lines in a ListField by
>> drag and drop?
>> And if the answer is yes, my second question is How?
>> Thank you
>> Fran?ois
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Fran?ois Cuneo
>> 
> 
> Bonjour Fran?ois,
> 
> Unfortunately the drag'n'drop functionality for RunRev
> 2 doesn't work for ListFields. However, I have made a
> stack available that accomplishes this.
> Direct link for download :
> http://www.geocities.com/janschenkel/downloads/dragdroplist.zip
> 
> Hope this helped,
> 
> Jan Schenkel.
> 
> =
> "As we grow older, we grow both wiser and more foolish at the same time."  (La
> Rochefoucauld)
> 
> __
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> 
Thank you Jan!
I'll try it!
François

-- 
François Cuneo
Site Web dédié au Macintosh http://www.cuk.ch
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Using keyboard to control a player

[Klaus Major]

Hi Scott,

...
I know that the message is getting sent, becauase if I put an answer 
command right above the start player command, the answer box comes up 
when I hit space.  The problem is that my movie doesn't start.  I did 
discover that if I set the alwaysBuffer of the movie to true, it does 
play when I hit space.  The problem with this is that the movie, while 
playing, doesn't show itself playing-it just goes to the end, and then 
shows the very last frame.  The thing that confuses me is why the 
start player command will start the player if I put it in a button, 
but not in the script to catch space bar.

Scott Slaugh
i think this is a "feature" of QT.

You can start/stop a movie in QT-Player with the spacebar...

Just omit that handler and see what happens when you hit the
space-key...
(Just click on the movie if nothing happens an hit space agin...)

I had to change some scripts in my last project, where i did not
get a similar script to work...
So i check for QT and have no space-bar script and if
Video for Windows is used i do...
Took me some desparate hours to find out... ;-)

Try it, it may work for you, too.

Hope that helps.



Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Microsoft Active Accessibility

[sims]

I am trying to find a way for a Rev app to make use of a windows screen reader,
Window Eyes, for the sight impaired. Evidently this requires 
Microsoft Active Accessibility
to be implemented for the screen reader to function.

Does Rev make use of Microsoft Active Accessibility  in any way?

tia

sims
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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Richard Gaskin]

Victor Eijkhout wrote:

>> I should have made the connection
> 
> Any time you say that, it really indicates a deficiency in the
> manual. As a manual writer myself, I don't approve of the "you can't
> say it wasn't there" style of technical writing.

Fortunately that doesn't seem to be the style Jeanne employs in documenting
Rev.

"Any time" may be a difficult position to support given the variety of posts
here about the more-extensive-than-Macromedia's documentation, some
evidencing a greater earnestness in trying than others.

As a documentation professional, surely you recognize the dynamic that
occurs once the meme of "the docs are inadequate" grows legs: an element of
"learned helplesness" creeps into the community, in which newcomers read
posts slamming the docs and begin to assume they needn't even try looking.

While specific constructive suggestions sent to Jeanne are invaluable in
providing guidance for further expansion, posts making broad negative
generalizations about the docs can be a disservice to the readers here,
misleading them to believe that finding the answers they need may be harder
than is actually the case.

This latest issue of password-protecting stacks is a good case in point. If
something seems obvious enough to get alarmed over, it may be obvious to the
RunRev team as well, and might well have already been addressed.  The same
amount of effort as required to post an alarming note to the list is all
that's required to recognize that in this case such a post isn't necessary:
Step 3 of 3 in the Distribution Builder has a field clearly labeled "Encrypt
with password" in the middle of the card.

And in the last several weeks a lot of posts have been searching for
language features in which what was being sought is the actual keyword they
were looking for; submitting the same term to the Transcript Dictionary as
was submitted to the list would have yielded immediate gratification.
Sometimes the problem is believing things can be as easy as they are. ;)

>From time to time we all overlook the obvious and lord knows how many times
I've done so myself, as I did just last week with the diskspace function.
There is no shame in that, it's just part of being human; we just get the
answer and move on, and it probably helps other readers along the way.  No
big deal.

But to extrapolate that overlooking something obvious always means that
there's something critically wrong with the UI or its documentation is not
likely to hold up in some cases, and in such cases slows the learning
process for others unnecessarily.

We're not talking about cooking, which my failed attempts suggest is hard
enough to learn (for at least this bachelor).  Developing software is an
inherently complex task, and while Rev is arguably among the easiest ways to
accomplish as much as it lets you do, there's only so much it can do to
simplify the process.  A 1000+ token interpreter like Rev's is a complex
system, integrating with even more complex systems like QT, database
engines, and 12 different operating systems.  While imperfect, Rev makes the
software process orders of magnitude more efficient and easier than
traditional methods like C++ or even Pascal (in some cases yielding superior
results), and is far simpler to learn than the world's most popular
scripting language, JavaScript.  And at version 2.0 it's still quite young,
with many areas in which it can learn and grow to make that process ever
simpler.

There are areas where Rev could better exploit the principle of progressive
disclosure (a long rant about the evils of Photoshop's UI on the evolution
of software design is growing increasingly hard to resist), but as a whole
it's not bad and specific suggestions for improvement seem to be heard.

A post on general tips for learning Rev is in the works, but I have a
problem with brevity (or more specifically a lack thereof ), so I'll
leave that out of this post and just close with this sincere question:

As with any software package in earnest development, continual improvement
seems a well demonstrated goal of Jeanne and the rest of the team, as with
the inclusion of the universal Help search plug-in added in v2.0.1 by
popular request.  Given your experience, what specific remedies would you
recommend? 

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge 2.2: Publish any database on any site
 ___
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Re: Using keyboard to control a player

[Scott Slaugh]

rawKeyDown (or up) doesn't report the ASCII code for the key pressed, it 
reports some other code. You have worked out that the code for space is 
62593. You just need to test for any keys you need to trap so you can find 
their codes.

I know that the message is getting sent, becauase if I put an answer command 
right above the start player command, the answer box comes up when I hit 
space.  The problem is that my movie doesn't start.  I did discover that if 
I set the alwaysBuffer of the movie to true, it does play when I hit space.  
The problem with this is that the movie, while playing, doesn't show itself 
playing-it just goes to the end, and then shows the very last frame.  The 
thing that confuses me is why the start player command will start the player 
if I put it in a button, but not in the script to catch space bar.

Scott Slaugh

Cheers,
Sarah
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.troz.net/Rev/
On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 01:17  pm, Scott Slaugh wrote:

Here's a problem I've been running into.  I create a new stack, and put on 
a player with a QuickTime movie.  I then open the card script, and enter 
this:
on rawKeyDown key
if key=32 then
start player 1
else
pass rawKeyDown
end if
Problem is, this doesn't start the player when I hit the space bar.  
However, if I change the 32 to 62593, which is the return key, the script 
works fine.  Why doesn't space bar work?

Scott Slaugh
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Applications for WWDC

[Heather Williams]

Dear listees,

I'm doing the whip round for applications made in Revolution to feature at
WWDC. If anyone has a shipping program they're proud of, that isn't already
on the Made with Rev pages, firstly, why not? Get over there and upload it!
and secondly, email me a description off list for consideration and we'll
pick the best to feature at WWDC.

The made with Rev pages are at:

http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/madewithrev.html

Warm regards to all,

Heather

P.S. Don't forget, I'm counting the votes tomorrow for listee of the
year...if you haven't voted yet, send your nomination to me,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], with the name of your nominee in the subject line.
-- 
Heather Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Runtime Revolution Ltd.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 7184333 Fax: +44 (0)1639 830707
Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought

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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 09:41 AM, Victor Eijkhout wrote:

 I should have made the connection
Any time you say that, it really indicates a deficiency in the manual. 
As a manual writer myself, I don't approve of the "you can't say it 
wasn't there" style of technical writing.
I agree, but even with the best of styles, the lack of such 
deficiencies is a high standard.  We press toward it, but a falling 
short may not be indicative of a poor style or strategy.

As for my own writing...  Well, the connection is perfectly clear to 
me!  That's why my customers hire people like you.

Dar Scott

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using database query builder

[rand valentine]

  I have several questions about working with Rev and databases (I'm using
Valentina xcmd for now on a mac running os 10.2.6).

1. When I open my main working stack, I have a Database Query Builder
(hereafter DBQB) connection that connects to a Valentina database that
presently has two tables, BasicLexicon and Keys. I have two queries, one for
the table BasicLexicon and one for the table Keys. When I run

revopendatabases()

  I get the answer: 4

  Why not 1, 2, or 3? Why 4 for the database ID? It doesn't matter if I quit
Runrev, turn off my computer, etc. I always get 4.

2. In DBQB, I set a certain field as the primary field for a given query.
But whenever I recheck the query, the primary field is listed as "None"
until I click the "refresh query" button. Why would this be?

3. Previously I reported that I was able to use revDataFromQuery to get the
results of a join, that is, request data from two distinct tables and have
it stitched together. But now this no longer works -- when I execute the
revDataFromQuery using the command that worked before, I get:

revdberr,

and that's all. Any ideas on what's going on? Also, if I can't do a join in
this way, how _do_ I do one?

Thanks so much.

rand valentine

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RE: Fw: Soap Documentation (other than samples)

[Edwin Gore]

I do have the 2.01 version, so I've got the latest stacks. I think a lot of the 
problem I am running into is that Amazon and RunRev seem to use different terminology 
for the same thing, and since I am just beginning to fool around with SOAP it's 
confusing.

As far as Amazon goes, I think I am probably just going to switch over to using their 
XML version of their web services, sicne they are super easy to understand,a nd do 
everything that the soap version does - I was able to get my catalog building software 
for Amazon affiliates to work within abvout two hours...

Thanks!


>> At 2:10 pm -0700 11/6/03, Edwin Gore wrote:
>> >I'm starting to play around with Amazon's Web
>Services stuff, and I
>> >noticed that none of the 2.0 commands for using
>Soap seem to have
>> >made it into the Docs. I know about the sample
>files, and it looks
>> >like that has everything I am going to need to
>start fooling around,
>> >just wanted to make Jeanne et. al. aware that
>none of it made it
>> >into the docs, so it might be hard for some
>people to find.
>> 
>> I can't speak for Jeanne or Kevin, but I think it
>was probably a good 
>> idea not to include the SOAP stuff in the docs.
>When the revSOAP 
>> toolbox was put together (I'll take the blame),
>there had been some 
>> requests for SOAP support but nothing specific
>about what kind of 
>> support was wanted. At the same time, various
>standards in the web 
>> services world were in a state of flux, and new
>standards seemed to 
>> be coming into play every other week. So the
>toolbox was basically a 
>> guide to how you might put together SOAP
>requests.
>> 
>> If more people need to use SOAP, then I'm hoping
>more specific 
>> requests might come in about the form this may
>take, appropriate 
>> syntax, etc. (Requests to RunRev, please, not
>me.) If something more 
>> concrete were to emerge from that, then that
>might be the time to 
>> include it in the docs.
>> 
>> Please let us know about your experiences with
>Amazon.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Dave
>> 
>> PS Do you have the SOAP toolbox that shipped with
>the final release 
>> of 2.0? In some of the earlier beta releases,
>there was a less 
>> complete "examples" stack only.
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Re: How to 'Get' Richmond's phonetic programs

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 07:09 AM, Mathewson wrote:

Download the stack files and build standalones for the
platform of your choice.
Dead easy!
I think I missed something or I'm being very dense this week.

What is the URL?

Dar Scott

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Re: Repeat request: Can anyone help with the 'printable area' problem

[Graham]

Thanks to Alex, Scott and Richard for replying.

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:21:23 -0600 Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I agree it is much needed!  Until it is available maybe allow the user
to adjust margins until there is no clipping?
However, I'm guessing it's a difficult feature to implement. Maybe not
all printers offer up this information?
Well, I can give examples which seem universal: in Windows, according to a 
very experienced Visual Basic developer I asked this week, this info is 
easily available and is assumed to be provided by all printer drivers. On 
the Mac, the well-known shareware program GraphicConverter offers "use 
printer's maximum" as an option in its margin-setting dialog, and I've 
never know it to fail. Can't speak for Unix.

Scott Raney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> also wrote:

Probably more like a good half, or more.  More importantly, only a
good 1% or so of those that do print care about the printable paper
size.  In my 25 years of computer experience *I* have never cared
about this, and that includes 10 years as an academic doing posters
and such with drawing packages that split documents across multiple
pages.  Since you've always got to cut and paste in these cases
anyway, what do I care if I've got to trim off 1/2 an inch or whether
the printer only requires I trim off 1/8 of an inch?  Now if there
were actually printers that print to the edge of the paper, it might
be nice to know this so that you can save the user the trouble of
assuming they'll have to cut and paste to make a big page out of a
bunch of small ones.  But AFAIK there aren't any such printers...
Yes there are - Epson for example make them (check out the Stylus Photo 
2100 for example).


I've added this to the engine feature request list,
Sincere thanks!

but note that this
is only the first request for this I've seen in 11 years of engine
development, so I'm thinking your expectations in this area may need
some adjustment because it seems you really may be the only person who
cares about this ;-)
Well, maybe so... until other listers speak up, I won't be able to prove 
otherwise! Doesn't anyone have any aspirations to do any form of precise 
page layout using RunRev?


PS: note that the printMargins don't apply when using "print..into
rect", which is what all non-trivial apps are going to use anyway.
According to the TD (and also noted by Richard Gaskin in another post):

 The card is scaled to fit the specified pageRect.

This therefore means if I'm printing anything that is supposed to have an 
exact measurement on paper then I need to know that my printing is not 
going to be enlarged or reduced except under my control. (A ruler is an 
obvious example, but I have plenty of others - my current application 
involves printing a paper model on lots of bits of paper for kids to stick 
together afterwards: clearly all the bits must be printed to the same 
scale, and as far as possible each complete part should be on a single bit 
of paper).

So changing the behavior of printMargins wouldn't solve your problem
anyway.  A new property would be required instead.
Well, I would gladly accept any way to get the information.

Meanwhile I will tell the teachers to find the maximum paper size by 
experiment.

Thanks for listening.

Graham

---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  

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Re: Hilited Text in a button

[Graham]

On Wed, 11 Jun 2003 13:13:49 -0400 Howard Bornstein 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote (and thanks for the reply):

I'm checking it on a Mac but I assume it's the same. There's a cool
feature in the Property Inspector that, if you hold the cursor over the
button for a moment, you'll see the property (as a tool tip) that the
button will change. In this case it's "hilitecolor".
OK, so the labelling is wrong - very minor bug in the Dev Environment.


From the TD:

"¬ The hiliteColor of a button is used for the background of the button
when it is highlighted. If the button is a menu, the hiliteColor is used
to highlight the button, but not the active menu choice. The hiliteColor
has no effect if the button is a tabbed button. The hiliteColor has no
effect until the button is highlighted."
>In fact I can't work out how to change the button's
>hilited text color from the PI at all.
Not sure what you mean by "hilited" text color, but to change the text
color of the button, use the Text button.
No, I want the color of the text to change while the mouse is down and 
change back when the mouse comes back up. I thought this was part of button 
behaviour, but if it's not then fair enough, I'll do it by script when I 
need to.


>BTW, there's a property with no explanatory text below this in the same PI
>which on my machine can be cleared but not set. Wonder what this is.
The tooltip reveals this to be the Border color/pattern. I'm not sure why
this option is disabled (yes, it's disabled here also).
Another v. minor bug, IMHO.

Graham

---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  

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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Victor Eijkhout]

 I should have made the connection
Any time you say that, it really indicates a deficiency in the 
manual. As a manual writer myself, I don't approve of the "you can't 
say it wasn't there" style of technical writing.
--
Victor Eijkhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 329 Claxton, Comp Sci, UT, 
Knoxville TN 37996.
tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F)
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/
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Re: Consonants (was How to open Richmond's bits of fluff....)

[Victor Eijkhout]

a guy like me who has negative language aptitude for language.
QED

:-)

--
Victor Eijkhout <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 329 Claxton, Comp Sci, UT, 
Knoxville TN 37996.
tel: 865 974 9308 (W), 865 673 6998 (H), 865 974 8296 (F)
http://www.cs.utk.edu/~eijkhout/
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Re: I'm having a terrible time

[JOHN FABIANI]

Thanks for the reply I was just about to give up on RR.  I am using
KDE.  I will see if that makes a difference. However, I can't change
window managers.  I'll post the results.
John
On Thu, 2003-06-12 at 01:03, Martin Baxter wrote:
> John,
> 
> I recall a similar post a few weeks ago. Scott Raney advised the poster to
> change window managers, and that apparently cleared the problem. You should
> be able find the thread in the archives. As I recall the poster was using
> kde and switching to gnome cured it.
> 
> martin baxter
> 
> >JOHN FABIANI wrote
> >Hi,
> >I'm having a terrible time getting the program to run correctly. I'm
> >using SuSE 8.2 on dual AMD 1700 system. When I run the program it opens
> >and many screens appear to work.  However, when I attempt to open the
> >script editor I only get a flash.  I can see that a window gets opened
> >but it closes immediately.  Also I have to open the inspector window
> >before I attempt to do anything else or it does the flash routine too.
> >At first I thought this had to do with the SMP kernal but the program
> >acts the same way on a single CPU system (also running SuSE 8.2).  Both
> >systems are using 2.4.20.  Does anyone know what may be the cause of the
> >trouble.  The system looks promising and I don't really want to give
> >up.  If it's not going to work at this time please just let me know.
> >
> >TIA
> >John
> 
> 
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How to 'Get' Richmond's phonetic programs

[Mathewson]

Download the stack files and build standalones for the
platform of your choice.

Dead easy!

Love, Richmond Mathewson
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Re: standalone has plainly readable transcript

[Dar Scott]

On Wednesday, June 11, 2003, at 10:03 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

What checkbox?  I think I must be blind.
Or you're using a different distribution builder :-) It's on the 
Stacks tab.
I see it!

Does the Distribution Builder just make up the password for this?
It has a field for you to type a password.
Are the original stacks encrypted or only the copy put into 
distribution?
Is there a way to decrypt stacks put into the application?
If there is no need to do so, can this password be nonsense I 
immediately forget?

I know, Alex, you only a few steps ahead of me, but someone might know.

Dar

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Re: Consonants (was How to open Richmond's bits of fluff....)

[Dar Scott]

On Thursday, June 12, 2003, at 01:34 AM, Mathewson wrote:

Yes!  'Consonants' and 'Vowels' are the basis of 2
standalones that I use for teaching phonetics at the
University of St Andrews.  I developed them at home, in my
own time: i.e. the copyright rests with me !!!
Cool.  How do I get them?

If you want to use them for teaching phonetics I should be
grateful if you would do the following:
1.  Make sure that any standalones you spin off give credit
to me "John Richmond Mathewson", you include my e-mail
address.
2.  I suggest $10 to your local Cancer charity per copy ???

3.  Try not to alter them unduly other than this.
I would be pleased to give you that courtesy.

We homeschool at our home and emphasize both linguistics and language 
arts approaches to language.  I downloaded the IPA sounds and have CDs 
that came with some books, but I think this might be an easier 
approach.  Especially for a guy like me who has negative language 
aptitude for language.

Uh, does homeschooling (we teach two of our own kids at home) count as 
teaching phonetics?

Dar Scott

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Re: Soap Documentation (other than samples)

[Dave Cragg]

At 2:10 pm -0700 11/6/03, Edwin Gore wrote:
I'm starting to play around with Amazon's Web Services stuff, and I
noticed that none of the 2.0 commands for using Soap seem to have
made it into the Docs. I know about the sample files, and it looks
like that has everything I am going to need to start fooling around,
just wanted to make Jeanne et. al. aware that none of it made it
into the docs, so it might be hard for some people to find.
I can't speak for Jeanne or Kevin, but I think it was probably a good 
idea not to include the SOAP stuff in the docs. When the revSOAP 
toolbox was put together (I'll take the blame), there had been some 
requests for SOAP support but nothing specific about what kind of 
support was wanted. At the same time, various standards in the web 
services world were in a state of flux, and new standards seemed to 
be coming into play every other week. So the toolbox was basically a 
guide to how you might put together SOAP requests.

If more people need to use SOAP, then I'm hoping more specific 
requests might come in about the form this may take, appropriate 
syntax, etc. (Requests to RunRev, please, not me.) If something more 
concrete were to emerge from that, then that might be the time to 
include it in the docs.

Please let us know about your experiences with Amazon.

Cheers
Dave
PS Do you have the SOAP toolbox that shipped with the final release 
of 2.0? In some of the earlier beta releases, there was a less 
complete "examples" stack only.
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Compressing and decompressing a file -- sorry a folder

[Matt Denton]

Hello all,

Just a quick caveat: in OSX remember that some files can be a bundle 
and actually a folder.  If you try to compress then decompress this 
file, it won't work.   (I think Rev has some notes tucked away 
somewhere about this, not sure where, maybe in Dev Guide folder notes?)

Anyway one quick way to check if an Application is a bundle (ie 
actually a folder in disguise) is to control-click on it from the 
Finder.  If you see a 'Show Package Contents' then it is a bundle (are 
all Mac OSX apps bundles or just Cocoa apps?  Not sure here).

So don't get trapped as I did: I thought I'd hit a miracle when a 10Mb 
application compressed down to 10K, now that would be nice.

Might be good for dictionary inclusion and/or Development Guide recipe 
Rev team?

M@

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Re Menu Builder

[muaadh salih]

Thanks  for all colleagues who helped but it is not yet working.
I noticed that only after saving the stack that this error is 
produced i.e. message is called prior to saving.
Suspecting that I might be still under the "free" trail I put a 
button with 15 line of scripts  ( like : put number & return  after a 
field) this worked fine .  I am still baffled
--

All the best

---
M.  Salih
N.M.E. Dept.
SOAS
University of London
Thornhaugh Street
London WCIH OXG
Tel. (UK) 020  7898 4354 Direct
  020  7898 4320 Dept.
eMail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Consonants (was How to open Richmond's bits of fluff....)

[Mathewson]

Dear Emmanuel Companys,
  Please bear the following points in mind:

1.  If the phonetics programs are going to de delivered
from a CD-ROM or over a NETWORK onto Macintosh computers
all the JPEG files have to be converted into internal
bitmap files:

Open the paint tools in RR and use the ersaer to click each
image, then, immediately click undo: this converts all
images into internal bitmap format.

However this means that the files grow to about twice their
original size.

For Windows this problem should not arise

If the standalones are going to be installed onto actual
Macintosh computers you do not need to convert the
graphics.  If you are running Mac OS 8.6-9.2.2 it seems
best to make Mac OS X standalones and then make sure that
your machines have Carbon Library 1.6 installed.

2.  Please ask your friend to let me know how many copies
are being used and where: this is merely for my curriculum
vitae.

Regards, Richmond Mathewson
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Re: Consonants (was How to open Richmond's bits of fluff....)

[Emmanuel Companys]

Le jeudi, 12 juin 2003, à 09:34 Europe/Paris, Mathewson a écrit :

If you want to use them for teaching phonetics
I have been retired since August 1996, but I' like to communicate it to 
a friend who is now teachinggeneral phonetics and phonology in Toulouse.

1.  Make sure that any standalones you spin off give credit
to me "John Richmond Mathewson", you include my e-mail
address.
2.  I suggest $10 to your local Cancer charity per copy ???

3.  Try not to alter them unduly other than this.

Of course

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Graphic Apps for the impoverished (was something and thensomething else)

[Mathewson]

At home I use GIMP (MacGimp) but at work my employers are
wary of my installing any Unix apps.  GIMP is FREE and
after the initial hiccups a super program.

Richmond Mathewson
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Consonants (was How to open Richmond's bits of fluff....)

[Mathewson]

Yes!  'Consonants' and 'Vowels' are the basis of 2
standalones that I use for teaching phonetics at the
University of St Andrews.  I developed them at home, in my
own time: i.e. the copyright rests with me !!!

If you want to use them for teaching phonetics I should be
grateful if you would do the following:

1.  Make sure that any standalones you spin off give credit
to me "John Richmond Mathewson", you include my e-mail
address.

2.  I suggest $10 to your local Cancer charity per copy ???

3.  Try not to alter them unduly other than this.

Love, Richmond Mathewson
---
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Re: I'm having a terrible time

[Martin Baxter]

John,

I recall a similar post a few weeks ago. Scott Raney advised the poster to
change window managers, and that apparently cleared the problem. You should
be able find the thread in the archives. As I recall the poster was using
kde and switching to gnome cured it.

martin baxter

>JOHN FABIANI wrote
>Hi,
>I'm having a terrible time getting the program to run correctly. I'm
>using SuSE 8.2 on dual AMD 1700 system. When I run the program it opens
>and many screens appear to work.  However, when I attempt to open the
>script editor I only get a flash.  I can see that a window gets opened
>but it closes immediately.  Also I have to open the inspector window
>before I attempt to do anything else or it does the flash routine too.
>At first I thought this had to do with the SMP kernal but the program
>acts the same way on a single CPU system (also running SuSE 8.2).  Both
>systems are using 2.4.20.  Does anyone know what may be the cause of the
>trouble.  The system looks promising and I don't really want to give
>up.  If it's not going to work at this time please just let me know.
>
>TIA
>John


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Re: Custom Cursors

[Ken Norris]

***
> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 07:56:52 -0700
> Subject: Re: Custom Cursors
> From: Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
>> The cursor works but is inverted here... Big fun...
>> 
>> - SO ? just make sure the image you import is an inverted
>> version of what you want to end up with 
> 
> I had a problem in which some cursor images made in slightly non-standard
> GIF tools would show well on one platform but not another.   But I also
> learned that using images made with the engine work well across all
> platforms.  Rather than give up the drawing conveniences of other tools, I
> imported the GIFs but then in Rev I changed one pixel and then changed it
> back again, which prompts the engine to rewrite the image data in the proper
> color order.
--
Well, that's an interesting trick. Did you discover it by accident, or did
you know. If you knew, can you explain please?

TIA,
Ken N.

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