Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Timothy Miller]

Timothy Miller wrote:



My ISP has installed a spam filter called "Vanquish" that works, 
well... perfectly.



--snip--



Alex Tweedly replied:

I've never tried any of these schemes, so I may be misunderstanding 
the details, but ...


if you send a message which can't be delivered (e.g. you mistyped 
the address, or your friend's email box is full, or their ISP is 
going out of business, or .) then you would normally get a 
message sent to you to inform you of the non-delivery. These often 
come from some automated address which won't accept incoming email. 
It looks to me as though Vanquish will block them (ok, it will 
challenge them - but the automated sender address won't deliver mail 
to a real person), and so you'll not be informed.



I hadn't thought of that. It is possible to view all blocked mail on 
a web page. Wanted emails are easily released or added to the allow 
list. But that's laborious. The whole point of this scheme is to 
avoid viewing blocked mail. It's possible that Vanquish would 
recognize a bounced email I have sent. I really don't know. It's not 
a big concern for me, on the address Vanquish filters.




Similar issues should happen with problems on some mail lists, such 
as emzlm, which warn you of delivery problems (e.g. including 
attachments if not allowed, including html if not allowed, etc.) by 
sending an automated email which won't get through.



The user can allow an entire domain name, and it has special features 
for handling email lists. It's possible that some such mail would be 
blocked. This would concern some users more than others.




Do you happen to know how it handles mail list (such as this one) 
which show the individual senders in the "from" list (but I know I 
haven't been challenged to get a message to you); does that mean it 
allows you to whiltelist by "Reply-to" rather by "From" address ? 
And if so, isn't that a way for spam to get in, since a spammer can 
spoof reply-to addresses easily (assuming they have harvested email 
addresses from specific mail lists) ?


This topic is a bit too technical for me. I allow a few common domain 
names, and a few email lists are on the allow list. A few spams leak 
through, occasionally, because spammers have spoofed return 
addresses. The number is very small.




Even worse, if you are on an emzlm mail list, and for some reason 
you're ISP is bouncing messages temporarily, then you'll get a 
warning message - but it comes from the mail list administrator, not 
the mail list itself, and therefore may not get through.



I don't know what emzlm is.

When I began using it, I checked out the withheld mail, to identify 
addresses and domains I might want to add to the allow list. I spot 
check it occasionally. That seems to identify most problems.


Bonded senders get through, too. They guarantee payment of a cent or 
two per unwanted email. Spammers won't make that kind of commitment 
of course. I don't know if this arrangement is catching on. I'd bond 
my own email, but never quite figured out how.




(Or, in summary, I'm a bit skeptical about this overall approach :-)



Yeah, I see what you mean. I can live with the downside.

Come to think of it, I only use Vanquish with one email address. 
Vanquish solved a dire problem for me. I've had the address for 
years, but can't abandon it for another year or so, for reasons I 
won't bother you with. It gets up to 500 spams per day. But 
approximately zero spams per day sent to that address get past 
Vanquish. The important messages, including those from unknown 
senders I want to hear from get thru just fine.


I use other, newer email addresses for important business, all with 
my own domain name. I reserve one address for all but a few email 
lists. I don't filter those with Vanquish, though I have that option. 
I try to reserve different addresses for specialized purposes, so 
they can be abandoned more conveniently, if needed, and can be 
filtered with Vanquish conveniently, if needed. I get very little 
spam on the newer addresses, even though they are a couple of years 
old now. I've learned not to be annoyed by a few spams per day. That 
used to bug the heck out of me, before the number climbed into triple 
digits.


Now that I've given it more thought, thanks to your thoughtful 
comments, Vanquish seems one of several promising-but-imperfect 
anti-spam strategies; it will suit some users better than others.


I hope this is of general interest, even though OT.

Cheers,


Tim
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Scripting conference - text munging with log available

[J. Landman Gay]

The final scripting conference stack on Text Munging (with Regex) by 
Alex Tweedly is now available for download. This copy includes the 
online conference chat, which explained some concepts in more depth. 
This was our last conference in the series, so grab this one and have 
the whole set.




--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing

[Sivakatirswami]

Second that... I've been using Metacard and RunRev now for what...ten  
years? can't remember when I switched from Supercard... in that whole  
time  think I had 4 corrupt stacks. All the work of which (script  
wise) was easily recovered by simply opening the broken stack in  
BBEdit and copying out my scripts.


I think this qualifies as about as  "Rock Solid!" as you can get...  
and I use Rev intensively, every day... not for commercial apps, but  
Rev apps drive key in-house applications for Hinduism Today  
International Magazine and Himalayan Academy Publications.


Things you can do that still amaze me: like today in 2 hours I ripped  
through 1447 old web files, fixed links... re-wired them all, removed  
code, inserting new code and had the book up on the distribution  
server before lunch... You just don't get this kind of productivity  
with *anything* else I have ever used on a computer. And xTalk is the  
only language I know


vs: the Adobe environment we live in here where we experience  
literally dozens of file corruptions every quarter (IDCS is getting  
better though... so it's less these days)


Sivakatirswami
Himalayan Academy Publications
at Kauai's Hindu Monastery
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

www.HimalayanAcademy.com
www.HinduismToday.com
www.Hindu.org


On Nov 26, 2005, at 11:31 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Corruption is not impossible with any file format, but for the  
reasons described in those posts it's exremely rare with Rev,  
certainly orders of magnitude more frequent in any other xTalk or  
even FileMaker Pro.


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Re: Problem with correct cursor showing up

[Sarah Reichelt]

> Hope someone can help with the following problem.   I want to program a
> button so that the cursor changes to "hand" on MouseEnter and changes back to
> "Arrow" on mouseLeave.   I inserted the following script (using Macintosh OS X
> Panther):
>
> on MouseEnter
>   set the cursor to hand
>   set the lockcursor to true
> end MouseEnter
>
> on mouseLeave
>   set the cursor to arrow
> end mouseLeave
>
> While this works in the unbuilt program, once it is built the cursor show up
> as "Watch" rather than "Hand"   on both Macintosh and   Windows.   Anyone have
> a suggestion?   Thanks.

In the Standalone settings, you might be best to tell it you will set
the required inclusions and make sure "Cursors" is checked.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: Rev and User Accounts

[Richard Gaskin]

Andre Garzia wrote:


On Nov 28, 2005, at 2:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


J. Landman Gay wrote:
Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, so it may be  that 
OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.


Is there a benefit to having those apps use duplicate creator  codes, 
or should we Bugzilla that?


If they have different codes, would double clicking from the finder  
works? Don't macos use creator codes to tag the documents created by  
the app and to decide which app opens each file type?


Rather than leave it up to guesswork and prayer, there could be some 
intentionality behind the use of creator codes and file types:


The Rev IDE is used for development, and the Player is used for 
deployment. Each has a very distinct role, so why confuse the two?


.rev cold remain in common use for development, and .rvp for deployment 
with Rev Player.


The Distribution Builder (or any five-minute plugin) could take take of 
changing the creator code and file type as needed for deployment.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Rev and User Accounts

[Andre Garzia]

On Nov 28, 2005, at 2:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


J. Landman Gay wrote:
Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, so it may be  
that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.


Is there a benefit to having those apps use duplicate creator  
codes, or should we Bugzilla that?




If they have different codes, would double clicking from the finder  
works? Don't macos use creator codes to tag the documents created by  
the app and to decide which app opens each file type?


PS: ... I do remember that an app could register for more than one  
file type, but I don't recall how...


Andre



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Rev and User Accounts

[Richard Gaskin]

J. Landman Gay wrote:
Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, 
so it may be that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.


Is there a benefit to having those apps use duplicate creator codes, or 
should we Bugzilla that?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: DLL usage in RunRev

[Ken Ray]

On 11/27/05 5:12 AM, "Alessandro Manotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev?

Allesandro, we just went over this topic a few weeks back. It's detailed in
the tip at my site:

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/ext002.htm

Basically an DLL is either built exclusively for Revolution using the
headers/source provided in the Externals kit, or it is a third party DLL (a
"normal" DLL"). Revolution externals are loaded with the "set the externals
to " command (see "externals" in the Transcript
Dictionary), and third party DLLs *can* be used, but you have to provide an
intermediary to call them (see the tip).

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Rev and User Accounts

[Mark Wieder]

Tim-

Sunday, November 27, 2005, 7:32:53 PM, you wrote:

> I run my business on a bunch of integrated Rev stacks, formerly
> hyperCard stacks. The good news is, if it breaks, I can fix it. The 
> bad news is, if it breaks, I *must* fix it.

ROTFL

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Rev and User Accounts

[Andre Garzia]

On Nov 28, 2005, at 12:25 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

If that doesn't work, try removing or archiving the Player so it  
isn't on the disk any more. Both DC and Rev Player use the same  
creator code, so it may be that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.


If I remember correctly, MacOS will use the app with the latest  
modification date as the default app if there's more than one app for  
the same creator code. So first check the date for the player and for  
dreamcard, if the player is younger than rev, use touch command to  
change revolution date and try again, I do think rev will be the new  
default app for the creator code... (but it's 2:00 AM here, I might  
be inventing this on my memory...)


Cheers
andre
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Re: Rev and User Accounts

[Timothy Miller]

Timothy Miller wrote:



--snip--

My plan was to lock myself out of the obvious 
time-sponge-applications. I wouldn't be able to use this stuff on 
impulse. I'd have to log out and log back in as the administrator. 
The slight delay and inconvenience might be an effective 
psychological barrier.


Alex Tweedly Replied:



Sorry, Tim, I don't know enough about MacOS to help you.
But I do have one question 

IMHO, the biggest "time-sponge application" if all is RunRev. I can 
spend hours in there, happily tweaking things, trying out things, 
adding features to my apps, playing with Revs features, etc.



Hi Alex,


Yeah, I know what you mean. I do that too, except I can't really say 
I enjoy it. Well, sometimes it is intellectually stimulating, like a 
good puzzle, but it sure doesn't beat paddling a kayak in Hawaii. It 
seems like a sick compulsion sometimes. My favorite foible the 
"convenient" new feature will never save me as much time and trouble 
as it takes me to write and debug.



So why do you want to make it available to your "focused" login.



I run my business on a bunch of integrated Rev stacks, formerly 
hyperCard stacks. The good news is, if it breaks, I can fix it. The 
bad news is, if it breaks, I *must* fix it.


Thanks for asking,


Tim



--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005

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Re: Referencing a variable?

[Jim Ault]

You want to use one variable to hold the name of another variable.  You need
to think just a bit more correctly.  (Skip to the last 2 paragraphs if you
wish.)  First consider that xTalk thinks the following way.

put 123 into topDrawer
-- puts characters "123" into a variable named "topDrawer"
--from now on, using variable container 'topDrawer' is using "123"

add 1 to topDrawer 
-- add 1 (as a number) to topDrawer (as a number, if possible)
-- topDrawer is now  a string "124"
put char 3 of topDrawer into thirdChar
-- thirdChar is now a string "4"

---put "123" into "topDrawer" == error 'bad chunk destination'
put "123" into topDrawer -- ok, since topDrawer is not a reserved word
put 123 into topDrawer --again ok.  In xTalk these are the same

--but now to get the value of a variable named "jimsVarName"
--and use that value as the name of another variable:
--run these script lines, step thru Variable Watcher and observe
on testMe
  breakpoint
  put "topDrawer" into jimsVarName  --   the STRING "topDrawer"
  put 123 into topDrawer --   set the VALUE of variable topDrawer
  put ("add 1 "& "to " & jimsVarName) into commandStrToExecute
  --note what Variable Watcher is showing at this point
  do commandStrToExecute  --   as if it were an xTalk script line
  answer "the variable " & jimsVarName & " now has chars (" & topDrawer &
")"
end testMe
--end script lines

If you use an array to do this, it is like using aBunchOfCubbyHoles[] where
aBunchOfCubbyHoles[2] is the second slot.  The Post Office uses an array on
a wall to hold mail.  POBox[1145] holds mail accessible using key 1145.  The
label on the front of the box is the ³key² we refer to in arrays.  Thus, if
there were 4 apartment mail boxes labeled ³Smith, Jones, Adams, Birch², the
array ³keys² would be those names, apartmentBox[³Smith²],
apartmentBox[³Jones²], apartmentBox[³Adams²], apartmentBox[³Birch²]...
holding mostly bills and junk mail (physical spam).

Hope this helps you and others.  Variable Watcher is a very valuable tool !
Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 11/27/05 5:44 PM, "Ian Leigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Many thanks Alex for giving me this solution. I don't understand why
> it will only work with the do command. If you try exactly the same
> command normally it doesn't work, why is that?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> On 28 Nov 2005, at 01:19, Alex Tweedly wrote:
> 
>> Ian Leigh wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> I would like to do the following:
>>> 
>>> Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
>>> Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.
>>> 
>>> So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want
>>> to  put a value into the actual variable only by using the
>>> variable name  which is stored in the buffer.
>>> 
>>> Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :
>>> 
>>> put 123 into "buffer"
>>> 
>>> might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried
>>> various  adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to
>>> figure it  out. Any insight would be appreciated.
>> 
>> Here's *an* answer - I think it might be the answer to the question
>> you were asking :-)
>> 
>> put 123 into myVariable-- give it an initial value
>> put "myVariable" into otherVariable   -- put its name into another
>> variable
>> do "put 456 into " & otherVariable-- use that other variable to
>> access the original one
>> put myVariable & cr after msg-- and output it to check we
>> succeeded
>> 
>> this should put out 456, showing that the 3rd line did indeed do
>> what we wanted.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date:
>> 25/11/2005
>> 
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Re: visualize fields?

[Ken Ray]

On 11/27/05 7:51 PM, "Timothy Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> In hyperCard, choosing the field tool caused all fields to be faintly
> outlined.
> 
> As I recall, though I'm not certain, some key combination outlined
> even the invisible fields, and fields under other fields, when the
> field tool was chosen.
> 
> Anyway, just outlining fields was very helpful for working with
> fields that have no border and sometimes have no contents.
> 
> Is there a way to make Revolution do this, or something like it? If
> not, should there be?

There isn't AFAIK, but it wouldn't be hard to make a little utility that did
this whenever a key combination was pressed. Whether there *should* be is a
matter of opinion... personally I don't think so (seems like a neat utility
to me), but that's just me.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Referencing a variable?

[Ken Ray]

On 11/27/05 7:44 PM, "Ian Leigh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Many thanks Alex for giving me this solution. I don't understand why
> it will only work with the do command. If you try exactly the same
> command normally it doesn't work, why is that?

Well, because when you say:

  put 123 into "buffer"

Rev immediately sees "buffer" as a string, not a variable, and therefore
can't "put" anything into it, and so you can't compile the script.

And if you do:

  put 123 into value("buffer")

Rev can't compile this either because the value of the string "buffer" is
"buffer" and the script compiler doesn't understand that this is supposed to
be a variable.

HTH,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Problem with correct cursor showing up

[Stgoldberg]

Hope someone can help with the following problem.   I want to program a 
button so that the cursor changes to "hand" on MouseEnter and changes back to 
"Arrow" on mouseLeave.   I inserted the following script (using Macintosh OS X 
Panther):

on MouseEnter
  set the cursor to hand
  set the lockcursor to true
end MouseEnter

on mouseLeave
  set the cursor to arrow
end mouseLeave

While this works in the unbuilt program, once it is built the cursor show up 
as "Watch" rather than "Hand"   on both Macintosh and   Windows.   Anyone have 
a suggestion?   Thanks.
Steve Goldberg
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Re: Referencing a variable?

[Andre Garzia]

On Nov 27, 2005, at 11:49 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Turning the problem inside out, could it be stated that the goal is  
to be able to refer to a variable without knowing the variable's  
name in advance?


If so, you might consider using array notation:

  put "MyName" into x
  put "123" into tBuffer[x]


Two solutions to this problems were quoted on previous mails. One  
with array notation above this one, other with do command. The do  
command will execute the string passed to it, beware that depending  
on how you acquire/build this string can leave you with exploitable  
code. For example if the user enter a string with quotes, your whole  
string is now mixed, or worse enter transcript code, things will get  
executed. Use do only when no other option is available and always  
double check your routines so that no rogue string ever comes near  
the do statement...


Cheers
andre

PS: ... and yes, I am paranoid. :P
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Re: Small Print Problem

[J. Landman Gay]

Robert Presender wrote:

The first page prints fine. Using .88 as printScale, the textsize of 
ListField is
 between 9 and 10.  Subsequent pages,  containing  only the text of 
ListField,

use revPrintText but the printed text size is the initial size of 10.

Since I don't know how to emulate a printScale in revPrintText,  I 
change the
 textSize of ListField to 9.  This works fine but the text appearance is 
a little smaller
 than the first page. I would like subsequent pages  to be scaled like 
the first page.


I think the only way to make sure you really get a good size match is to 
use the same scale for all pages in the printout. Leave the field font 
size alone, and instead, scroll the field via script and print each page 
sequentially using the same settings. See the "pageHeights" property, 
which reports the scroll settings required to print each page of the 
field. That's what revPrintText uses, actually.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Mark Wieder]

Frank-

Sunday, November 27, 2005, 4:34:17 AM, you wrote:

> No, I wasn't thinking of MS.  It was Borland.  I Have Learning Editions of 
> theirs.

Interesting. They don't seem to be available from their website, and
Google searches don't come up with anything.

(I didn't really think you had MS in mind...)

So what sorts of limitations do the Learning Editions set up for you
that my full versions would let me do? I take it that you can still
compile and create apps that don't require the IDE to run? Are you
somehow prevented from distributing these apps? And how much did you
have to pay for these versions?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Rev and User Accounts

[J. Landman Gay]

Timothy Miller wrote:

The problem: Revolution Dreamcard doesn't show up in the list of 
applications I can allow or disallow -- under "Parental Controls". 
(Revolution Dreamcard Player does show up.) 


Possibly a permissions problem. Do a "Get Info" on Dreamcard Player and 
note the permissions in the "Details" section of the "Ownership and 
permissions" pane. Then look at the permissions on DreamCard and make 
sure they are the same.


If that doesn't work, try removing or archiving the Player so it isn't 
on the disk any more. Both DC and Rev Player use the same creator code, 
so it may be that OS X thinks they are duplicate apps.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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visualize fields?

[Timothy Miller]

In hyperCard, choosing the field tool caused all fields to be faintly outlined.

As I recall, though I'm not certain, some key combination outlined 
even the invisible fields, and fields under other fields, when the 
field tool was chosen.


Anyway, just outlining fields was very helpful for working with 
fields that have no border and sometimes have no contents.


Is there a way to make Revolution do this, or something like it? If 
not, should there be?



Cheers,


Tim
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Re: Referencing a variable?

[Richard Gaskin]

Ian Leigh wrote:
> I would like to do the following:
>
> Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
> Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.
>
> So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want  to
> put a value into the actual variable only by using the  variable
> name  which is stored in the buffer.

Turning the problem inside out, could it be stated that the goal is to 
be able to refer to a variable without knowing the variable's name in 
advance?


If so, you might consider using array notation:

  put "MyName" into x
  put "123" into tBuffer[x]

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
 Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com


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Re: Referencing a variable?

[Ian Leigh]

Many thanks Alex for giving me this solution. I don't understand why  
it will only work with the do command. If you try exactly the same  
command normally it doesn't work, why is that?


Cheers

Ian


On 28 Nov 2005, at 01:19, Alex Tweedly wrote:


Ian Leigh wrote:


Hello all,

I would like to do the following:

Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.

So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want  
to  put a value into the actual variable only by using the  
variable name  which is stored in the buffer.


Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :

put 123 into "buffer"

might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried  
various  adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to  
figure it  out. Any insight would be appreciated.


Here's *an* answer - I think it might be the answer to the question  
you were asking :-)


put 123 into myVariable-- give it an initial value
put "myVariable" into otherVariable   -- put its name into another  
variable
do "put 456 into " & otherVariable-- use that other variable to  
access the original one
put myVariable & cr after msg-- and output it to check we  
succeeded


this should put out 456, showing that the 3rd line did indeed do  
what we wanted.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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25/11/2005


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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Ken Norris]

Hi JB,


Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 23:47:37 +0100
From: jbv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

Ok that's fine... but still I'm wondering : what (if anything) makes
Transcript different from other languages (beside its "almost" plain
english syntax ?
Doesn't it feature variables, loops, if-then-else structures, arrays,
functions, etc. just like so many other languages ?

so what makes it so attractive and loveable ?


Maybe it's gran-pappy.HyperCard, i.e., its developers, and the 
community of people who gathered around its warming fire. Other people 
did programming, but HC scripters had FUN, more fun than anybody. We 
all just fell in love with it. With it we could, with reasonable ease, 
make our little computers do just about anything, make our non-Mac user 
friends salivate in jealousy, and formed a community of people who are 
still fast friends and co-workers today, and won the future of xTalks. 
Many of those people are right here, right now.


All the best,
Ken N.

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Re: Referencing a variable?

[Dan Shafer]

Not sure exactly what you're trying to do (or why) but check out the  
value function in the docs.


For a simple example:

put 42 into x
put "x" into buffer1
put value(buffer1)

produces 42 as a result.

Is that what you wanted to do?


On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:08 PM, Ian Leigh wrote:


Hello all,

I would like to do the following:

Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.

So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want to  
put a value into the actual variable only by using the variable  
name which is stored in the buffer.


Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :

put 123 into "buffer"

might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried various  
adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to figure it  
out. Any insight would be appreciated.


Cheers.
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~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Stgoldberg]

Different people learn in different ways.   In my own case, it is 
indispensable to read through entire manuals first in a systematic way.   
That's the way 
I learned Hypercard (Danny Goodman's and Dan Shafer's books), Supercard, 
mTropolis, Revolution (including Dan Shafer's book), Photoshop, Illustrator, 
Bryce, 
Vue,   and a whole host of other programs.   I agree that once having gone 
through a manual, practice, repetition, and experimenting are vital to mastery 
of a system.   Reading the manual first, though (at the very least an excellent 
Getting Started manual), gives the reader an idea of the sort of things that 
a program is capable of doing, which then allows the programmer to plan doable 
things.   Not reading the manual results in a lot of gaps in understanding 
what a program can and cannot do.   Thus, proper documentation is very 
important.   The problem is not that Revolution is a bad program.   To the 
contrary, it 
is a superb program, which is why I've   switched to Revolution as a 
replacement for the now-defunct mTropolis.   The problem is that it is very 
difficult 
for a novice, who has not already learned a related language (like HyperCard) 
to get into using Revolution without good documentation.   And even with a 
scripting background, Revolution still needs a better description of its basic 
features.   I've read the entire User manual.   Can someone tell me, for 
instance, where there is any basic organized documention as to   the key 
features of 
the Property Inspector, which is central to the development process?   In 
order to survive, Revolution will need to attract new users.   Proper 
documentation is very important to attracting new users.

Steve Goldberg 
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Re: Referencing a variable?

[Alex Tweedly]

Ian Leigh wrote:


Hello all,

I would like to do the following:

Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.

So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want to  
put a value into the actual variable only by using the variable name  
which is stored in the buffer.


Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :

put 123 into "buffer"

might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried various  
adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to figure it  
out. Any insight would be appreciated.


Here's *an* answer - I think it might be the answer to the question you 
were asking :-)


put 123 into myVariable-- give it an initial value
put "myVariable" into otherVariable   -- put its name into another variable
do "put 456 into " & otherVariable-- use that other variable to 
access the original one

put myVariable & cr after msg-- and output it to check we succeeded

this should put out 456, showing that the 3rd line did indeed do what we 
wanted.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
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Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005

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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Dan Shafer]

One man's "Aaarrgh!" is another man's "Ahhh."

On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:03 PM, Dennis Brown wrote:

Another thing that makes it different (part of the depth and  
complexity) is the type-less nature of containers.  You tell it  
what you want it to do generically, and it figures out how based on  
the kind of data you give it --even if you switched data types the  
next time through... Aaarrgh!




~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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Referencing a variable?

[Ian Leigh]

Hello all,

I would like to do the following:

Put a variable name into another buffer variable.
Reference the actual variable but using the buffer variable.

So I only have the name of the variable in the buffer but I want to  
put a value into the actual variable only by using the variable name  
which is stored in the buffer.


Does this make sense and can it be done? I thought simply :

put 123 into "buffer"

might work but it doesn't work that way. I have also tried various  
adds and used the value command too but I can't seem to figure it  
out. Any insight would be appreciated.


Cheers.
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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Dennis Brown]

Another thing that makes it different (part of the depth and  
complexity) is the type-less nature of containers.  You tell it what  
you want it to do generically, and it figures out how based on the  
kind of data you give it --even if you switched data types the next  
time through... Aaarrgh!


Dennis

On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:52 PM, Charles Hartman wrote:



On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:47 PM, jbv wrote:


Ok that's fine... but still I'm wondering : what (if anything) makes
Transcript different from other languages (beside its "almost" plain
english syntax ?
Doesn't it feature variables, loops, if-then-else structures, arrays,
functions, etc. just like so many other languages ?


Speaking as a beginner & ignoramus, but one who's used other  
languages for a variety of grow-your-own projects for many years,  
I'd say it really *is* different, and the superficial similarities  
(the kinds function calls and if-clauses any language, right down  
to ASM, needs) are misleading.


It's the message path that dominates everything, I think. When you  
keep it in mind you tend to make right decisions about design,  
large and small. When you forget about it, you don't just do  
inefficient work, you paint yourself into deeply bafflling corners.


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Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Alex Tweedly]

Timothy Miller wrote:



My ISP has installed a spam filter called "Vanquish" that works, 
well... perfectly.


Vanquish doesn't attempt to filter by content, subject line or IP. 
Instead,legitimate senders not on my "allow" list get directed to a 
website where they have to type some graphic characters into a field. 
They only have to do it once. After that, they go on the allow list, 
unless I remove them. At first, I worried that legitimate senders 
would be put off. I've not heard a single complaint. The only comment 
has been, "Hey, where can I get this?"


My outgoing email gets added to my allow list. Bonded senders are also 
allowed, unless I exclude them.


I've never tried any of these schemes, so I may be misunderstanding the 
details, but ...


if you send a message which can't be delivered (e.g. you mistyped the 
address, or your friend's email box is full, or their ISP is going out 
of business, or .) then you would normally get a message sent to you 
to inform you of the non-delivery. These often come from some automated 
address which won't accept incoming email. It looks to me as though 
Vanquish will block them (ok, it will challenge them - but the automated 
sender address won't deliver mail to a real person), and so you'll not 
be informed.


Similar issues should happen with problems on some mail lists, such as 
emzlm, which warn you of delivery problems (e.g. including attachments 
if not allowed, including html if not allowed, etc.) by sending an 
automated email which won't get through.


Do you happen to know how it handles mail list (such as this one) which 
show the individual senders in the "from" list (but I know I haven't 
been challenged to get a message to you); does that mean it allows you 
to whiltelist by "Reply-to" rather by "From" address ?   And if so, 
isn't that a way for spam to get in, since a spammer can spoof reply-to 
addresses easily (assuming they have harvested email addresses from 
specific mail lists) ?


Even worse, if you are on an emzlm mail list, and for some reason you're 
ISP is bouncing messages temporarily, then you'll get a warning message 
- but it comes from the mail list administrator, not the mail list 
itself, and therefore may not get through.


(Or, in summary, I'm a bit skeptical about this overall approach :-)

--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Timothy Miller]

scott,

one thing that has stemmed the tide for me is to start putting your 
email address on all your web posts as a java encoded text (there 
are several schemes out there to do this) instead of straight html. 
while this wont get rid of things immediately, it has slowed the 
tide a lot for me and many clients over the last couple of years 
since i started doing it. spam lists are constantly being generated 
by spiders all the time looking for emails in html, so it does help 
prevent you getting on new ones. im sure there are some spammers out 
there that are now using bots to run the java scripts to see if they 
get any email addresses back, but thats not as easy.


its never ending war... you might also try and forward your email 
over to a hosting account that has a spam filter on it.


My ISP has installed a spam filter called "Vanquish" that works, 
well... perfectly.


Vanquish doesn't attempt to filter by content, subject line or IP. 
Instead,legitimate senders not on my "allow" list get directed to a 
website where they have to type some graphic characters into a field. 
They only have to do it once. After that, they go on the allow list, 
unless I remove them. At first, I worried that legitimate senders 
would be put off. I've not heard a single complaint. The only comment 
has been, "Hey, where can I get this?"


My outgoing email gets added to my allow list. Bonded senders are 
also allowed, unless I exclude them.


Highly recommended.

Tim
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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Robert Brenstein]

Frank.

Can you give us an example or two of where this pricing is common 
among development tools? I see feature-crippled and time-limited 
evaluation licensing all the time, but I can't honestly think of a 
single development tool that has a free learning edition that you 
upgrade to so you can deploy apps.




Latest release of CodeWarrior has gone that route: their product is 
free for hobbysts and one buys it to distribute products. But I see 
this as their exit strategy.


Robert
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Re: Rev and User Accounts

[Alex Tweedly]

Timothy Miller wrote:


Hello,

In an attempt to keep myself on-task while working at my computer, I 
created a new user account, without administrative privileges. We're 
on Macintosh OS 10.4. The administrator can grant or deny other users 
access to applications. (This is done under the heading of "parental 
controls.")


My plan was to lock myself out of the obvious 
time-sponge-applications. I wouldn't be able to use this stuff on 
impulse. I'd have to log out and log back in as the administrator. The 
slight delay and inconvenience might be an effective psychological 
barrier.



Sorry, Tim, I don't know enough about MacOS to help you.
But I do have one question 

IMHO, the biggest "time-sponge application" if all is RunRev. I can 
spend hours in there, happily tweaking things, trying out things, adding 
features to my apps, playing with Revs features, etc.  So why do you 
want to make it available to your "focused" login.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Charles Hartman]

On Nov 27, 2005, at 5:47 PM, jbv wrote:


Ok that's fine... but still I'm wondering : what (if anything) makes
Transcript different from other languages (beside its "almost" plain
english syntax ?
Doesn't it feature variables, loops, if-then-else structures, arrays,
functions, etc. just like so many other languages ?


Speaking as a beginner & ignoramus, but one who's used other  
languages for a variety of grow-your-own projects for many years, I'd  
say it really *is* different, and the superficial similarities (the  
kinds function calls and if-clauses any language, right down to ASM,  
needs) are misleading.


It's the message path that dominates everything, I think. When you  
keep it in mind you tend to make right decisions about design, large  
and small. When you forget about it, you don't just do inefficient  
work, you paint yourself into deeply bafflling corners.


Charles Hartman

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Rev and User Accounts

[Timothy Miller]

Hello,

In an attempt to keep myself on-task while working at my computer, I 
created a new user account, without administrative privileges. We're 
on Macintosh OS 10.4. The administrator can grant or deny other users 
access to applications. (This is done under the heading of "parental 
controls.")


My plan was to lock myself out of the obvious 
time-sponge-applications. I wouldn't be able to use this stuff on 
impulse. I'd have to log out and log back in as the administrator. 
The slight delay and inconvenience might be an effective 
psychological barrier.


The problem: Revolution Dreamcard doesn't show up in the list of 
applications I can allow or disallow -- under "Parental Controls". 
(Revolution Dreamcard Player does show up.) I can try adding 
Revolution Dreamcard to the list of applications by using the 
"locate..." button. When I try to include Revolution that way, I get 
a dialog box that says, "Revolution Dreamcard doesn't work with the 
limitations you have selected." The attempt to put Revolution on the 
"allow" list is ignored.


I tried turning off all limitations on the "parental controls" 
screen. No help. I wondered if Rev needs access to certain helper 
applications. The only one I could think of was Quicktime Player. I 
added that one to the "allow" list, but I still can't add Revolution 
to the "allow" list.


If I turn off all parental controls, then Revolution works normally 
under the other account. But then the purpose of the other account is 
defeated.


Any suggestions?


Thanks in advance,


Tim
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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[jbv]

Dennis,

Ok that's fine... but still I'm wondering : what (if anything) makes
Transcript different from other languages (beside its "almost" plain
english syntax ?
Doesn't it feature variables, loops, if-then-else structures, arrays,
functions, etc. just like so many other languages ?

so what makes it so attractive and loveable ?

Best;
JB


--



_
Faith is a central nervous system disease, like Alzheimer or multiple sclerosis.


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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Michael J. Lew]

Without telling me how much each segment earns, it can only be 
misleading to tell me what fraction of the taxes they pay. What is 
the source of your information? Does it include the necessary detail 
of incomes? I'm guessing it doesn't.


At 10:46 PM -0600 26/11/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 > At the moment, in your country and mine, the very wealthy pay very 

 little tax.


The top 1% earners in the US pay 34% of the taxes.
The top 5% earners in the US pay 54% of the taxes.
The top 50% earners in the US pay 97% of the taxes.

If a wealthy person here is not paying much tax, it means they are 
likely going to not be wealthy much longer.


Dennis


--
Michael J. Lew

Senior Lecturer
Department of Pharmacology
The University of Melbourne
Parkville 3010
Victoria
Australia

Phone +613 8344 8304

**
New email address: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 27 nov. 05 à 19:56, Dan Shafer a écrit :


It's a proven fact that people who have more birthdays live longer.


Thanks Dan for this Good Luck methodology reminder..., something very  
closely binded with the points of view we are able to filter, the  
actions and responsabilities we are able to drive head, fine humour  
included :-)


--
Best Regards, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:  +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:  +33 1 64 45 05 33



WEB/VoD/ACID-DB services over IP
"Mutualiser les deltas de productivité"


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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Dennis Brown]

On Nov 27, 2005, at 4:17 PM, jbv wrote:


Transcript is different enough from other popular languages,


in what is it different (beside the fact that it's much closer to
natural english than any other language) ? just asking...

uses
different terms and metaphors,


same question as above... again, just asking...


and is so rich and complex in its
capabilities that it takes understanding beyond the deceptively
simple surface to get an idea of what one can really accomplish with
it.


IMHO this could be said also about C or PHP or...

so what makes Transcript so specific (beside the fact that it's used
only by happy few) ?


I usually need to approach a problem from the side instead of the  
bottom or top if I want the solution to be fast and elegant.  It is  
the more unusual parts of the language that have the true power.  It  
is obviously not different in concept than other xTalks, but xTalks  
are not the usual language of choice for developers.  Having keyed  
arrays opens up new approaches, but lack of fixed ones can make  
others painful.  Data structures need to be approached differently.   
Spending a year on this list has opened my eyes to approaches that  
are different than what I would have considered the straight forward  
way of doing things (for a computer).  The old hands seem to be  
frequently surprising each other with insights into how things work  
and how to approach simple problems in unusual ways that work  
better.  Of course once you spend a few years learning to think in  
Latin (oops, I mean Transcript), it all seems natural.


Dennis
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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[jbv]

Dennis Brown a *crit :

>
> Transcript is different enough from other popular languages,

in what is it different (beside the fact that it's much closer to
natural english than any other language) ? just asking...

> uses
> different terms and metaphors,

same question as above... again, just asking...

> and is so rich and complex in its
> capabilities that it takes understanding beyond the deceptively
> simple surface to get an idea of what one can really accomplish with
> it.

IMHO this could be said also about C or PHP or...

so what makes Transcript so specific (beside the fact that it's used
only by happy few) ?

Best,
JB (who fell in love with xTalk circa 1987)


--



_
Faith is a central nervous system disease, like Alzheimer or multiple sclerosis.


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Re: Graphic Design Tools

[Dennis Brown]

This did not install on OS X the way the docs say to do it.  Go to  
the forums to get the right way to install.  Beware it is still  
alphaware.


Dennis

On Nov 27, 2005, at 1:51 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Quoting Judy Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Do you have a URL for it? (my PC-using students, chagrined at
GraphicConverter's being Mac-only, are always asking me for a PC
alternative...)


save all the hastle and use a cross platform tool
Pixel32
http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/

even on SkyOS and BeOS WOW.

cheers
bob


Judy

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, MisterX wrote:

For PCs, I recommend ACDSee - ultrafast browser, powerful catalog  
and nice

editor. Photoshop still rules...


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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Frank R]

Ok, here's my two cents about the state of the docs:
   
  - The intro videos are well done.  Although, I also had a big give-me-a-break 
moment when I saw I had to pay $50 to finish watching the videos.  
   
  - The content of the docs is reasonable.
   
  - The lack of a complete  User's/Programming  guide, without having to buy 
some other books, is very poor.
   
  Yeah, reading reference-like material is do-able for many, but in my view, 
it's a very big black eye for an otherwise intriguing and powerful product.
   
  For all the dialog we all just had on the pricing of this product, I'd cite 
this as an even bigger problem - you Can't expect to grow this product's 
use/market without the existence of a single, complete  User's/Programming  
guide  included.  Lots of tire-kickers will quit early, thinking this thing has 
to be a nearly-unsupported *toy*  with the docs in their current form.   They'd 
be making a wrong conclusion, but I can see people making it after taking a 
quick tour of the docs.
   
   
   
   
  

Dan Shafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Your feeling is right. I am 60. I don't 
worry about age. It's a 
proven fact that people who have more birthdays live longer.

Besides, I always heard programming was a young man's game so I 
figure if I keep doing it maybe the Universe will forget my 
chronological age.

And for my feelings about the docs, go to http:// 
www.revolutionpros.com and click on "Views". That way I don't have to 
repeat them here endlessly!

On Nov 27, 2005, at 4:33 AM, Mathewson wrote:

> Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is
> older)



~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
>From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Jeffrey Reynolds]

scott,

one thing that has stemmed the tide for me is to start putting your 
email address on all your web posts as a java encoded text (there are 
several schemes out there to do this) instead of straight html. while 
this wont get rid of things immediately, it has slowed the tide a lot 
for me and many clients over the last couple of years since i started 
doing it. spam lists are constantly being generated by spiders all the 
time looking for emails in html, so it does help prevent you getting on 
new ones. im sure there are some spammers out there that are now using 
bots to run the java scripts to see if they get any email addresses 
back, but thats not as easy.


its never ending war... you might also try and forward your email over 
to a hosting account that has a spam filter on it. I use lunarpages for 
several clients and their spam filter has been great at catching stuff 
w/o any nailing any good emails as far as we can tell right now.


DO NOT rely on your ISP for filtering. Two clients just got burned by 
this big time. One had all the forwarded emails that came from his web 
domain to his private email at his isp (he wanted it all in one mail 
box) get bounced by his ISP when the isp changed their spam filter a 
few weeks ago w/o notice. it now thought that ll the forwarded emails 
were spams! He is now picking these up directly from the hosting 
account and the spam filter there is working brilliantly, whereas the 
isp's never did work well.


The other client used Yahoo as her primary client since she needed to 
access it from web browsers a lot and she preferred that web client 
over the hosting companies one. Well a couple of weeks Yahoo changed 
its spam filters and it started sending all sorts of her ISP 
(sbcglobal, in bed w/yahoo), yahoo and forwarded domain name emails 
into the spam. it was very strange what it was thinking was spam and 
what was not. some lists went in while others only had half of them go 
to spam. all paypal email went into the spam pile good or bad. It was 
awful and we didnt figure it out for a week since it was only a partial 
hit and a bit intermittent and she was very busy and not paying close 
attention. All this happened with no notification in both cases and 
really hurt their businesses.


The funniest (well sort of sad), though, was the early days of 
earthlink spam filtering. i was having some good emails all of a sudden 
go into the spam pile. i called tech support to see what was up and 
they said they had just changed the filtering and i should have 
received a notification about it (which i never received) and to watch 
to see if there was a problem. Wanna guess where the notification email 
was? in the spam pile!


oh yes and even clients cgi mailscripts are being hit by bots 
intermittently filling them up with garbage.


I just want to go downtown and scream at some of the reps here (i live 
in the dc area) for overriding the state spam laws that were coming on 
line with a worthless federal law. Virginia was about to institute a 
law that would have pretty much strung spammers they could get their 
hands on up by their thumbs! the official line was that the various 
state laws would be a restraint on interstate trade and hard to 
enforce! yeah right!


sorry [rant] off, i feel for ya scott, many megabytes of spam are 
circling my trash bin all the time...


Jeffrey Reynolds


On Nov 27, 2005, at 6:20 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:


[sigh] Even with filters and spam blockers and rules, these all 
address the

symptoms, not the source of the problem. Somebody somewhere needs to do
something about this.


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Re: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing

[Dennis Brown]

I don't recall ever seeing an effect without a cause.
Rest assured there is a cause, but unless it can be reproduced, it  
will only get fixed by accident!

If there is a next time, save the crime scene.
Might be about time now to get on with your life.

Dennis

On Nov 27, 2005, at 2:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I am glad to see that at least 2 people have not encountered this  
(because

it is absolutely no fun when it happens), but this does not nullify my
experience and the accounts recently posted on this list. There HAS  
TO BE

a cause for this random occurrence.


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RE: Graphic Design Tools

[Judy Perry]

Thanks for the suggestion!


On Sun, 27 Nov 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> save all the hastle and use a cross platform tool
> Pixel32
> http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/
>
> even on SkyOS and BeOS WOW.

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Re: This is what REALLY SUCKS about whingeing

[Roger . E . Eller]

> I agree Dan...
> 
> I have never had any of these issues come up for me.
> 
> Tom
> 
> On Nov 26, 2005, at 3:27 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
> 
>> Roger
>>
>> Interestingly, I have *never* encountered most of the anomalies
>> mentioned in this thread and I program in Rev exclusively on OS X.

I am glad to see that at least 2 people have not encountered this (because 
it is absolutely no fun when it happens), but this does not nullify my 
experience and the accounts recently posted on this list. There HAS TO BE 
a cause for this random occurrence.

Roger Eller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Stephen Barncard]

Yes, I have an OS9 version right here...
sqb

I regret that I didn't have a chance to ever work with LiveMotion (was
there a Mac version available??? I seem to recall seeing a box in the

Judy



--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Dan Shafer]

Your feeling is right. I am 60. I don't worry about age. It's a  
proven fact that people who have more birthdays live longer.


Besides, I always heard programming was a young man's game so I  
figure if I keep doing it maybe the Universe will forget my  
chronological age.


And for my feelings about the docs, go to http:// 
www.revolutionpros.com and click on "Views". That way I don't have to  
repeat them here endlessly!


On Nov 27, 2005, at 4:33 AM, Mathewson wrote:


Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is
older)




~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html


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RE: Graphic Design Tools

[rev]

Quoting Judy Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:


Do you have a URL for it? (my PC-using students, chagrined at
GraphicConverter's being Mac-only, are always asking me for a PC
alternative...)


save all the hastle and use a cross platform tool
Pixel32
http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/

even on SkyOS and BeOS WOW.

cheers
bob


Judy

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, MisterX wrote:


For PCs, I recommend ACDSee - ultrafast browser, powerful catalog and nice
editor. Photoshop still rules...


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Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Stephen Barncard]

Change your email address.
Then for a transition period hook up the old address to a 
auto-responder to direct people to a web page with a small cgi that 
can forward a small message. Like this:


http://barncard.com/contact/

 The people that really need to get to you can still do so, and you 
can send a mass email to close associates.


I know it's painful to change a cherished address, but it's really 
the best way. At some point, when the email address ends up on lists, 
one has no chance.




I've written about 2 dozen rules on my end (Entourage) to weed out the bogus
email but with a recent outbreak I've received almost 7,000 messages in just
the last week.  These bounced messages are clogging my server and I need to
stay on email duty daily to clear them out.

Any suggestions on how to combat this problem?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi


--
stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -
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Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Mathewson]

In BULGARIA, coffee cost anywhere between 10 - 30 cents a
cup:
however the average family income (i.e. Mum and Dad
working) come to about $100. The average family are unable
to save.

However, this is wandering seriously OT.

Capitalism (a loose-fitting sort of economic something that
Bulgarians, along with a lot of other East Europeans,
thought was a better bet than Communism) does not take
prisoners, nor does it hand out free candy. Therefore the
discussion about pricing of Runtime Revolution should not
take the price of coffee in Bulgaria into account.

For nations who have not got their act together - And
Bulgaria is a serious case in point of a nation of
asset-srippers who have wasted just about every chance that
was presented to them by the collapse of Communism - there
is the Free version of RR for Linux. I have already
introduced a few students at the technical University to
RR-Linux and flung Ubuntu disks at them.

It is perfectly possible to make standalones for all
supported platforms using the RR-Linux 2.2.1 underwritten
by Novell: I have no sympathy there.

Ultimately, however much RR decide to charge for their
product rest with them. At least, unlike many other RADs,
there is a FREE version.

What is more to the point should be a discussion as to how
to pursuade citizens of the nations that sponge, nations
that have dug their own holes, and so forth, to get into RR
and learn how to use it, and contribute via this list and
the other normal outlets. 

If a drug-dealer gets kids hooked on FREE narcotics then he
can charge what he likes: it is an unpleasant parallel -
but not entirely inaccurate.  Just at present I'm lurking
in dark alley-ways pushing Ubuntu disks - what are you
pushing?

sincerely, Richmond

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Re: Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Dennis Brown]

Richmond,

While I agree with your sentiment (I learned programming the same  
way, though a few years earlier), I don't see Transcript  
documentation as something to compare to other languages from the  
point of view of whose documentation is the worst.


I see what the documentation could be --as a competitive advantage to  
other languages by lowering the barrier to entry and mastery.   
Transcript is different enough from other popular languages, uses  
different terms and metaphors, and is so rich and complex in its  
capabilities that it takes understanding beyond the deceptively  
simple surface to get an idea of what one can really accomplish with  
it.  Spend a year monitoring this list and you start to get the sense  
of it.  However, as you pointed out, rather than just getting you  
feet wet, there is nothing like diving in and thrashing about a good  
while to figure it out.  I am of that school of thought also.


However, I also know how frustrating it can be when stuff does not  
work the way you thought, or you don't even know how to ask the  
questions about what you want to accomplish.  I continue to be amazed  
at the questions from newbies on this list.  Most of the time I can't  
even figure out what they are asking,  then along comes three answers  
from the ranks of experience that understand what the person was  
really asking in spite of what they said.


That was my dilemma about the documentation --how to provide an  
answer when the person does not even know how to ask the question.   
That is why I keep poking at the concept of documentation that can be  
indexed into by an outline from general to specific topics with more  
than one path to the specific information --and I am not talking  
about just the standard docs, but the wisdom of this list also.


Dennis


On Nov 27, 2005, at 7:33 AM, Mathewson wrote:


I learnt Hypercard without a book,
and I extended my knowledge, as RR extended xTalk, in the
same way:

by doing!

Ludwig Wittgenstein said that too many people Philosophise
and not enough DO PHILOSOPHY.

Now if we all DID Runtime Revolution:

i.e. got in there, got our feet wet, realised that (despite
a few itches) it really is just about the best
cross-platform RAD out there, and used the built-in
documentation as well as we are able to . . .

We would probably shut-up about the 'awful this and the
awful that'.

Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is
older) I started computer programming with FORTRAN 4 in
1975 - then BASIC, then PASCAL, ZILOG . . . those who moan
(I don't mean the odd 'twitch') and continue to moan about
RR's documentation and "lack-of-ease-of-use" ought to try
programming with one of those horrible Hollerith card
punchers:

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Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Kurt Kaufman]

2 cents:
In an era where, if I wanted to, I could easily spend $5 on a cup of  
coffee,  an IDE such as Dreamcard at $100 seems very reasonable.  If  
you like what it can do, then spend more for the Studio version, etc.
I've no problem with the pricing as it stands in US dollars.  I don't  
know if the same carries over into relative cost in other countries.


Kurt
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Re: Graphic Design Tools

[Alex Tweedly]

Judy Perry wrote:


Do you have a URL for it? (my PC-using students, chagrined at
GraphicConverter's being Mac-only, are always asking me for a PC
alternative...)

 


http://www.acdsystems.com/
$49.99 (or EUR39.99 depending where you are :-)

I first found ACDSee from a mention in the great Sports' Illustrated 
article at

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6453-6821


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.8/183 - Release Date: 25/11/2005

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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Charles Hartman]

On Nov 27, 2005, at 2:42 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:



But at the end of the day, Adobe couldn't find enough users who  
didn't prefer the more professionally-oriented Flash to justify  
keeping LiveMotion alive.




Products that have done well from the low end (which may mean, not  
that they're still around but that they've gained legendary status in  
memory -- you can take that to the bank, can't you? . . .) may not  
have done it by attracting people who already knew that they wanted  
to do what the product did (I must make a Flash thingie! but I'm  
stingy!). Attracting casuals off the street, instead. A lot of people  
tried programming for the first time because of Borland Pascal,  
DeSmet C, HyperCard . . . They weren't choosing between one product  
and another (e.g., a pro and a lite version). I imagine a certain  
number of the pros on this list began that way.


Charles Hartman

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Constant 'Nonsense' about RR documentation

[Mathewson]

I learnt Hypercard without a book,
and I extended my knowledge, as RR extended xTalk, in the
same way:

by doing!

Ludwig Wittgenstein said that too many people Philosophise
and not enough DO PHILOSOPHY.

Now if we all DID Runtime Revolution:

i.e. got in there, got our feet wet, realised that (despite
a few itches) it really is just about the best
cross-platform RAD out there, and used the built-in
documentation as well as we are able to . . .

We would probably shut-up about the 'awful this and the
awful that'.

Although I am a mere 43 (I have a feeling Dan Shafer is
older) I started computer programming with FORTRAN 4 in
1975 - then BASIC, then PASCAL, ZILOG . . . those who moan
(I don't mean the odd 'twitch') and continue to moan about
RR's documentation and "lack-of-ease-of-use" ought to try
programming with one of those horrible Hollerith card
punchers:

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/univac/cards.html

a stack of cards,

a Fortran Manual (remember all that stuff about
formatting?),

and the 2-3 week wait while your cards sat in a queue at
one of the few Universities that offered a public service.

"Spoilt, spoilt, spoilt . . "  says Richmond stumping off
puffing his pipe!
__
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http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Frank R]

No, I wasn't thinking of MS.  It was Borland.  I Have Learning Editions of 
theirs.

Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  Frank-

Saturday, November 26, 2005, 7:13:30 PM, you wrote:

> I wasn't referring to the free and old C++ available. Recently,
> they had Learning Editions of All their current development tools -
> Delphi, C++, Kylix, Java.

Well, let's see...

C++ Builder *30-day trial* version 6 is dated March 2002
The Kylix *trial* versions are dated from mid-2002 (version 3)
The JBuilder versions are current but only run for 30 days
Delphi Personal is not downloadable but is "available through select
publications", as is Borland C++ Builder Personal.

...or you can purchase Delphi starting at $1090 on up to $3490.
C++ Builder lists for $927 (pro) and $2117 (enterprise)
Entry level JBuilder is $499

Maybe you were thinking of Microsoft? They offered a "Learning
Edition" of VB at the student pricing of $50. Then end-of-lifed the
product.

Mind you, I like Borland's compilers. But the Turbo Pascal days, or
even the Turbo C days, are behind them now.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Martin Baxter]

Scott Rossi wrote:


[sigh] Even with filters and spam blockers and rules, these all address the
symptoms, not the source of the problem. Somebody somewhere needs to do
something about this.



Something that could help considerably would be if mail server admins, 
and service providers generally, banned or at least strongly discouraged 
use of the mail-bounce option, which spammers deliberately abuse.


Mailbox users who have control of this aspect of mailserver operation 
should be aware of the inadvisability of bouncing badly addressed mail, 
in that it can get you a rep as an open relay.


Martin

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RE: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[MisterX]

 
> From Sarah Reichelt

> And I can't resist this one from Xavier:
> 
> > And I thought mac users were not affected by window viruses ;)
> 
> Last week you took a virus warning to be an attack on Windows 
> users, now you seem to be trying to stir up the same debate 
> that you condemned then.

I did? Richmonds comments got me frisked by their complete ignorance. But
it's not for the "I took mistankenly a comment for another" or trying to
stir a debate. Im comdemning the ignorant rethoric about PCs on the list
sometimes.

Then when a PC user makes his pc tool available on the mac after long hours
of testing and scripting sessions only TWO mac users will say anything in 4
weeks time that all the patterns are wrong, the borders don't look good, the
buttons are wrong, the standard buttons are wrong, the hilites are not ok,
etc... 

This mac attitude of ignoring pc users is really not helping rev or its
community open their minds to the rest of the market available to them. How
can I tell? The number of times others repeat what I just said one way or
another. 

Kind of stuff that really makes me want unsubscribe sometimes...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 

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Graphic Design Tools

[Mathewson]

There is a Windows version of GIMP:

http://www.gimp.org/windows/

sincerely, Richmond
__
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RE: DLL usage in RunRev

[MisterX]

Hi Alessandro

There's lots of ink spilled in the mailist about those...

You can't interface directly to DLLs without an API call that you make via
shell or a custom external command.

Depends on what you need...
Tell us more... There's usually other ways in Rev ;)

Get the ActiveSearch Stack from the RevOnline files... fast Search engine
in the comfort of rev

or via the web


Whatch for line cuts in the url...

cheers
Xavier
http://monsieurx.com/taoo

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Alessandro Manotti
> Sent: Sunday, 27 November, 2005 12:13
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: DLL usage in RunRev
> 
> Hello,
> 
> can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev?
> 
> I cannot find the exact function to load a library and use 
> the functions contained inside.  :-(
> 
> Thank you!
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Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Dom]

Scott Rossi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion.  I don't own the server (it's a commercial ISP)
> and I don't initially see any option specifically for filtering returned
> mail

Try Mailfilter!
It's a *nix thing, but that works...
I tested it with a seldom used address for testing.
I have a cron to launch mailfilter every hour, just before fetching the
mail.

There is OS X font end, but I preferred to write a Rev stack to manage
the filters ;-)
And another Rev stack to study the log!

Unwanted messages are deleted directly on the server :-)

As of today, there is a build for OS X (somewhat lag behind the "pure"
*nix version)

MailfilterX (front end):
http://www.frank-blome.de/mailfilterx/news.php

Mailfilter home:
http://mailfilter.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Revolutionario

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DLL usage in RunRev

[Alessandro Manotti]

Hello,

can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev?

I cannot find the exact function to load a library and use the
functions contained inside.  :-(

Thank you!
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RE: Graphic Design Tools

[Judy Perry]

Do you have a URL for it? (my PC-using students, chagrined at
GraphicConverter's being Mac-only, are always asking me for a PC
alternative...)

Judy

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, MisterX wrote:

> For PCs, I recommend ACDSee - ultrafast browser, powerful catalog and nice
> editor. Photoshop still rules...

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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Judy Perry]

Perhaps the market was already saturated for this type of tool in that
given environment?

I regret that I didn't have a chance to ever work with LiveMotion (was
there a Mac version available??? I seem to recall seeing a box in the
department's SysAdmin's office, but when I inquired it was PC-only  and I
don't think even my PC-using colleage ever did anything with it, which,
of course, has n o bearing on the usefullness of it).

Judy

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> And yet while those inventive users suffer, there were never enough of
> them to keep Adobe LiveMotion alive.
>
> As Scott Rossi can attest and I'll toss in a hearty "Amen!", LiveMotion
> was truly "Flash for the rest of us."  Everyone who ever spent more than
> 20 minutes with both agreed that LiveMotion was far more accessible.
> Borrowing the best of After Effects' award-winning timeline, LiveMotion
> made simple and immediate sense out of so many things that were insanely
> arcane in Flash.  It didn't offer the full range of dynamic programming
> capabilities as Flash had, but LiveMotion made short work of animations
> and basic interactivity, certainly enough to handle much of what Flash
> is commonly used for.
>
> But at the end of the day, Adobe couldn't find enough users who didn't
> prefer the more professionally-oriented Flash to justify keeping
> LiveMotion alive.

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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Judy Perry]

But it's not necessarily 'casting pearls before swine' ... (or, is it???)

Judy

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Tarting it all over town for just $99 gives too much away.
>
> ;)

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Re: Graphic Design Tools

[Judy Perry]

Dan,

Really??  Cool..

To be fair, I only became acquainted with it when, upon being asked rather
suddenly to teach a course in multimedia, snorted around the software on
our server and found it (and precious little else!).

As you say, you really can do quite alot with it.

I'm a paid owner as well ;-)

I'll be hitting you up for that, whatever (don't do coffee, alas..
probably why I can't program worth a farthing), at RevConWest!

;-)

Judy

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Dan Shafer wrote:

> Judy
>
> Wow.
>
> Would you believe this?
>
> I've owned a GraphicConverter license for years and I never knew it
> could create or modify graphics. All I've ever used it for is
> converting from one format to another!
>
> ::Sound of open palm smiting forehead::
>
> I just opened it and I actually think I could learn to use it to do
> all the graphic stuff I've always said I didn't know how to do.
>
> I owe you a Latte (or other non-alcoholic drink of your choice) next
> time you're in Monterey (who knows when THAT might be, hmm?).
>
> ;-)

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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[Judy Perry]

Dan sez...

> I would have agreed until the last two revs. I am not personally
> acquainted with the situation, but several friends of mine who teach
> and study multimedia development at our local university have
> complained bitterly to me in the past year about how MM has made
> development in Flash all but inaccessible to folks who don't grok
> scripting. I'm not sure how they've managed to do this -- or if it's
> just a perception -- but it's hurt them in this university curriculum.

Chipp & Dan,

FWIW, I concur. IDT (Instructional Design & Technology) degree programs,
from what I know, have relied heavily on MM programs (first Director, then
increasingly Flash on presumption of Director's imploding doom).

>From what I have read and observed, many of these programs initially used
Hypercard but shifted to Director & Flash to accomodate PC-using students
(ultimately the clear majority).

Long before I obtained such a degree, I recall reading discussions
(largely from the HC list) and initiated some private ones on the subject,
and they all supported what you have said, namely, that when Hypercard
was the authoring software used, these individuals in the degree programs
were able to learn it suffficiently to continue using it beyond the
requirements of their degree program (that is to say, voluntarily).

However, I have yet to meet a single individual who has done likewise with
Director or Flash.  Not one.  Including me.  The learning curve for those
two products is markedly steeper: take a look at your 'average' _Director
for Dummies_ sort of book and you'll see how the 'inventive user' is
catastrophically-adrift in a sea of C-like dot syntax that goes on forever
and is incomprehensible (add to that the, until previously, foreign
concept of a timeline-based interface for this audience); Flash's
ActionScript (or whatever it's called these days) isn't a whole lot
different, being based, I think, heavily on JavaScript meant to look more
like a Java/C-lite than a 'real' x-Talk.

They are not inherently 'inventive user-friendly'.  And, hence, you end up
with the graduates of such degree programs who go on to teach it
themselves not being very good teachers of it.  And thus the cycle
continues.

> OTOH, that group is now investigating Rev, so all is not lost!

--I only wish CSUF were one of them... :-(

Judy


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RE: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[MisterX]

Isn't there a virus scanner proxy or plugin for your mail server?

what kind of server is it? Can you install software on it?

On the pc world, you have dozens of exchange, smpt gateway filtering proxies
and im sure there are for unix too... 

cheers
Xavier


> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Scott Rossi
> Sent: Sunday, 27 November, 2005 11:16
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
> 
> Recently,Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> 
> > While I haven't experienced this at your level (yet), I have 
> > encountered it. The key seems to be filtering on the 
> addressee. Emails 
> > to you are addressed to you specifically and presumably 
> others in your 
> > organisation are the same. In my experience, these returned spam 
> > emails are addresses to unknown people at your domain. If you have 
> > filters that trash or re-direct anything that isn't going 
> to a known 
> > email address, then you will probably catch most of these.
> 
> Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately, the emails use 
> legitimate addresses which makes them harder to filter.  Plus 
> I am subjected to the repeated "Your domain has been 
> blacklisted due to bla bla bla...", illustrating the 
> uselessness of commercial white/black lists -- eventually the 
> entire user base of the Internet will be banned.
> 
> [sigh] Even with filters and spam blockers and rules, these 
> all address the symptoms, not the source of the problem. 
> Somebody somewhere needs to do something about this.
> 
> Thanks & Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
> -
> E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
> 
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Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Scott Rossi]

Recently,Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> While I haven't experienced this at your level (yet), I have
> encountered it. The key seems to be filtering on the addressee. Emails
> to you are addressed to you specifically and presumably others in your
> organisation are the same. In my experience, these returned spam
> emails are addresses to unknown people at your domain. If you have
> filters that trash or re-direct anything that isn't going to a known
> email address, then you will probably catch most of these.

Thanks for your response.  Unfortunately, the emails use legitimate
addresses which makes them harder to filter.  Plus I am subjected to the
repeated "Your domain has been blacklisted due to bla bla bla...",
illustrating the uselessness of commercial white/black lists -- eventually
the entire user base of the Internet will be banned.

[sigh] Even with filters and spam blockers and rules, these all address the
symptoms, not the source of the problem. Somebody somewhere needs to do
something about this.

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Scott Rossi]

Recently,Jerry Muelver wrote:

>> Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
>> bounced virus email messages.  Of course I did not initiate any of the
>> original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts and server notices
>> as a result of virus propagation.
> 
>> Any suggestions on how to combat this problem?
> 
> Just set your filter to intercept any "returned" emails, and delete them
> from the server without downloading. If you aren't sending them out in the
> first place, why would you want to read the bogus bounce notices anyway?

Thanks for the suggestion.  I don't own the server (it's a commercial ISP)
and I don't initially see any option specifically for filtering returned
mail, but this is a good idea.  Unfortunately, I still need to deal with
general notices claiming "Mail could not be delivered because XYZ...".

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail

[Sarah Reichelt]

> Sorry to put this OT subject on the list but I'm hoping to solicit some of
> the more knowledgeable minds out there...
>
> Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
> bounced virus email messages.  Of course I did not initiate any of the
> original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts and server notices
> as a result of virus propagation.
>
> My ISP has spam filters and virus blocking which is fine for general
> incoming email, and I use client-side filters as well, but the problem is
> having to deal with messages that are being returned to me because viruses
> messages are spoofing my domain.
>
> I've written about 2 dozen rules on my end (Entourage) to weed out the bogus
> email but with a recent outbreak I've received almost 7,000 messages in just
> the last week.  These bounced messages are clogging my server and I need to
> stay on email duty daily to clear them out.
>

Hi Scott,

While I haven't experienced this at your level (yet), I have
encountered it. The key seems to be filtering on the addressee. Emails
to you are addressed to you specifically and presumably others in your
organisation are the same. In my experience, these returned spam
emails are addresses to unknown people at your domain. If you have
filters that trash or re-direct anything that isn't going to a known
email address, then you will probably catch most of these.

And I can't resist this one from Xavier:

> And I thought mac users were not affected by window viruses ;)

Last week you took a virus warning to be an attack on Windows users,
now you seem to be trying to stir up the same debate that you
condemned then.

To answer your question: yes, Mac users are immune to all current
viruses and worms. Their programming does not work on a Mac, so they
have not effect when they are received. However someone spoofing a
domain name is entirely different. Scott is not getting the virus, he
is getting the bounces from the virus or spam not being delivered when
it apparently came from his domain. And spam is unfortunately
cross-platform.

Sarah
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Re: Pricing / entry cost for this tool

[John Vokey]

I haven't commented previously on this issue, and, note, I haven't  
quoted anyone below.  But, I think this whole debate is a tempest in  
a teapot (or a rant in search of topic).  Just what is the issue here?


Dan Shafer, a hero to many X-Talkers, including me, is concerned that  
RR is spreading itself too thin, supporting both DreamCard (allegedly  
for ``Inventive users''---hobbyists by any other name) and Revolution  
(allegedly for ``Professional Developers'', ignoring the different  
pricing options).  He has argued that RR can't do both, citing the  
history of computing and the litany of failed software companies  
attempting to do what he claims RR is doing.  I don't question his  
facts, or even his argument; but I do question the alleged parallel  
of RR with that history.


As an aside, let it be known that I have the ``maxed-out'' license--- 
the equivalent of what I had with Metacard (yes, I have been with MC/ 
RR for quite some time), so if RR went the totally ``professional  
route'' I would be unaffected in that sense.


But that would be a big mistake.  Dreamcard *IS* the replacement for  
hypercard for all but a few (I am a huge Dreamcard supporter---see  
the RR website for my endorsement).  How many hypercard users ever  
produced stand-alones (``apps'' in the parlance)?  I know I never did  
(just as I never produce standalones---apps---in MC/RR).  Tiny stacks  
is what we produced, and still do.  Dreamcard is brilliant just  
because we can continue to do just that.  Better, those to whom we  
provide our stacks need not even have a copy of Dreamcard---they can  
just download the Dreamcard player to use our stacks.  It is the  
continuation of a dream (yes!) that was Steved at Apple, but now  
applies to virtually all operating systems.  THAT is utterly brilliant!


I know Dan appreciates this brilliance; he is just concerned that any  
resources devoted to Dreamcard are extracted from MC/RR as a  
professional development environment.  I would agree, except that I  
think he has mischaracterised the distinction between Dreamcard and  
MC/RR.  Dreamcard is not some lesser development environment from MC/ 
RR, just different.  Personally, I like producing full-blown apps in  
40K that I can send to colleagues to use.  These apps include  
psychology experiments, novel statistical analyses, neural nets, and  
so on.  For that purpose, there is no reason that Dreamcard should be  
different from MC/RR.  Indeed, as Dreamcard is, in effect, a free  
(for RR) spin-off from app-producing MC/RR, ANY Dreamcard sales are  
pure gravy.


My point?  Dreamcard users are not any less ``professional'' than  
those for whom compiled ``apps'' are the raison d'etre.  We need and  
use everything the alleged professionals also use.  So, there is no  
difference in support or resources.  RR should continue to develop  
Revolution as they have been doing, responding to every complaint the  
``professionals'' demand needs correction: but those professionals  
are as much in the Dreamcard contingent as they are in the ``I paid  
maximum dinero, I demand satisfaction'' contingent.  The difference  
is, completely and only, that Dreamcard programmers don't need  
compiled apps of their creations.  To the extent that such  
compilation concerns are at issue, RR should devote resources to  
addressing them.  If they are engine issues, we all benefit, so I am  
all for it!  Kevin et al. at RR (brilliant people all, obviously)  
have recognised this, and have done the brilliant thing.  In case you  
missed it: I can't emphasise enough just how brilliant for the  
computing community the Dreamcard move is: the dream of hypercard  
made available to virtually all, but based on an expensive engine for  
those of us that need it *for other purposes*.  Do I mind indirectly  
funding all those Dreamcard users?  Nope, as it is, as I noted, pure  
gravy for RR.


So, just to drive the point home: Dreamcard is brilliant!  Pass it  
around.  And, don't deprecate it by some false amateur vs.  
``professional'' distinction.


--
Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See 

-Dr. John R. Vokey



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"Tarting it all over town" - successfully

[Mathewson]

Arguably, APPLE have been "tarting it" quite successfully
with, until recently, a double system:

iMacs and iBooks for the "tartier" types

and

the big G4s and G5s for the "marrying" types

(I suppose we should not forget the eMac for those with
"kinky" tastes)

(I wonder how far I can stretch that imagery - Thanks
Richard)

Now, Apple have brought out the MINI, which looks like a
middle-way (at this point I can return to my metaphor of
living together).

MicroSoft (cough, cough) are, arguably so "tarty" that
their product is "diseased" - and something like 95% of
computer users seem prepared to take the risk.

Many programmers produce a "Lite" version and a "Pro" one
and seem to do tolerably well.

sincerely, Richmond
__
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http://members.maclaunch.com/richmond/default.html
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yet another Rev trick for Selections and Plugins

[MisterX]

Hi everyone

It's a white morning here in luxembourg - I overslept to 7h30
and glad I did! Motivated to work in the object garage...

I was working on a new cool stack (a new group of renaissance 
style stacks) and noticed I gave up something and didn't 
notice how the answer was already under my nose!

I switched stacks and I noticed something was missing in 
Rev... It's so simple, and while you learn to live with it in
rev really fast, it still is a sore in general productivity.

Bugzilla it? No, it's part of the job of the scripter to do
this or not... But in general, this selection trick is very 
handy to have. And available since the 80's guis!

When you select something in a field in window 1,
Go to another window look something up, go back to window 1
and your selection is gone. Or, copy something, go paste it
in another window and when you paste, your selection in window
1 is gone!

And how often doesn't it happen to you? 
The bigger the selection the more annoying too!

That's not the way selections work in any OS I remember... 
But Rev allows us to manage this!

So I added this to my library stack and it works great!
I'll share the basic mechanism because it's the start for
the rest of the logic behind plugins.

Showing you how to make it work, instead of making
the stack ready is imoho the same as the difference
between giving a man a meal or teaching him how to fish...

This tip is medium-level but really easy to implement...

You should know how to make libraries, that is stacksinuse,
front or backscripts, and how the resume[stack] and suspen[stack]
events work. 

The following script goes into the main stack script that 
manages your windows or a startupscript or your personal 
frontscript. Im sure it will be handy for other uses.

Note: If you paste it, make sure there isn't another 
suspendstack or resumestack script you may overide in that 
same script.

--

local xos -- use a global for more flex across libraries if needed

on SuspendStack 
  -- remember selection
  put the filename of the topstack into thisstack
  if the selectedchunk is not empty then
put the selectedchunk into xos[thisstack,lastselections]
  end if
  pass SuspendStack -- don't forget to pass the msg
end SuspendStack

on ResumeStack
  -- reselect
  put the filename of the topstack into thisstack
  get xos[thisstack,lastselections]
  if it is not empty then
try -- just in case it goes wrong
  do "select" && it
end try
  end if
  pass ResumeStack -- don't forget to pass the msg
end ResumeStack

-- 

Exercise: implement this for resume and suspend events, field
selection switch (going from one field to another (harder),
and what about the selobj(s)!

Did I mention theres lots more applications?

--

For those interested in more evolved libraries that also remember the
selobjs, the control's props (and history of), resume and suspend orders and
stats, and more... It's all available already across TAOO. 

cheers
Xavier

--
http://monsieurx.com/taoo 
The Art Of Objects

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