correction

[Marielle Lange]

About my previous email, please, if possible, ignore it. This was  
stupid most stupid of me to write this on the list.


A wish I had expressed was to keep away from the lists and runrev  
business for 2 months as I needed to focus on other projects. As I  
was in an unstable state of mind and preferred to stay away from  
doing stupid things I would come to later regret, I had in fact  
voluntarily unsubscribed myself from the use-list a few days ago.


Some misunderstanding has taken place, leading to inappropriate and  
much unfortunate escalate. Bob's schismogenetic comment is right. I  
have to confess some clear responsibility in this escalate.


Best regards,
Marielle


Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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kicked out

[Marielle Lange]

I have been unsubscribed from the use-revolution list, the improve- 
list, and the education list (well, given the present context, I  
should add "to the best of my knowledge"). I have now received the  
email below. No further comments. Obviously, you won't see me around  
anymore.


Marielle

Begin forwarded message:


From: "Michael McLaughlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 23 March 2007 17:54:52 GMT
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Runtime Revolution

Dear Ms Lange,

We have been instructed by Runtime Revolution.   We understand that  
you have threatened to send to Runtime's clients an email making  
derogatory and untrue remarks about the company.   If you carry out  
this threat we have standing instuctions to instigate interdict and  
damages proceedings against you.  You should desist from making any  
contact with Runtime's clients immediately.


Without Prejudice

Yours faithfully

Biggart Baillie




--
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Widged   
http://widged.com/
Easy access to lexical databaseshttp:// 
lexicall.widged.com/
Supporting Education Technologists  http:// 
revolution.widged.com/wiki/






--
Marielle Lange (PhD),  Psycholinguist

Widged   
http://widged.com/
Easy access to lexical databaseshttp:// 
lexicall.widged.com/
Supporting Education Technologists  http:// 
revolution.widged.com/wiki/





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more info

[Marielle Lange]

Bill Marriott wrote:

That library should be at runrev.com, and actively maintained.


I guess this information is a useful one to give.

I had signed a community partner agreement with runrev about two  
months ago, with the view of helping things *LIKE THIS* to happen.


I tried. I asked what was possible or not with respect to stuff like  
this. I received no information. I was invited to share the  
information I had collected at BETT (British Education Trade Show,  
the biggest inthe UK). I did so. No interest was shown in the  
information or ideas I exposed. I was proposed to become a vendor,  
lobby a given school to persuade them to buy a few licenses and get  
my cut out of the deal.


I signaled I was not interested in this. I asked what else was  
possible. I didn't receive any clear answer. As it was too unclear to  
me what my role was supposed to be and what room for action I had in  
that role, I have come to choose to resign from it, a bit more than a  
week ago.


I am still keen on taking up a role with runrev which would allow me  
to do something positive for the education community but would  
refrain from doing so till things become clearer.


In particular, in my interactions with runrev it became clear to me  
that due to already great time pressure on staff, other priorities,  
or I don't know what, it wouldn't be possible to set up a structure  
where (1) things would be created and (2) things will be actively  
maintained.


A structure exists where things can be created and be actively  
maintained. This structure is called wikibooks.


Best,
Marielle

----
Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education



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Re: [OFF] Input/Info Requested

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Joe,

A few weeks back I broached that very issue. Or, maybe, even more  
ambitiously, about the total scope of available resources for RunRev.


Can you point me to this post... I am afraid, I don't find the time  
to read each single post on this list.


It had become pretty obvious to me that there are just tons and  
tons of materials, suggestions, approaches, et. out there, but the  
newbie to Rev has got to be bewildered.


I do my best to provide such a list at:






there is dmoz directory, where persons can add mention of their website

Richard has a similar list:


And oh, as pointed by mblackman on the forums:
"There is a good list of sites in the documentation but it doesn't  
pop out at you.
Go to documentation, click on the Search button at the right hand  
side, in the window that pops up click on 'web database' which pops  
up a menu, choose 'Go to' and presto there's a list. Maybe they  
should make this easier to find !"


Then the problem I experienced is that if a link gets outdated, they  
don't get changed. I signaled that the lexicall.org link was not  
valid a while ago (replaced by widged.com about a year ago). I was  
told that the change would take place in the next version. The next  
version comes. No change.


I don't mind the place where this information appears being  
revolution. What I do mind however is that this is a place where  
information can be kept up to date, with the responsibility for this  
being shared by various persons rather than it being a single person  
effort.


When I was working heavily with FutureBasic, I was pushing for the  
design of a few really good templates to be used by newbies of FB a  
starting point. We even did a few; and, except for its Mac only  
capabilities, FB is the best, fastest and easiest there is. Lots of  
it are in assembly language, and like this list, the FB lists are  
impressive, though not as "hurried".


You see, the big problem is that I am about to reply to this post on  
the forums 
"Help! I've built an application in Enterprise (2.7.1 build 236)  
booting up in OSX on an external drive - everything is fine,  
including the custom Image Library I created to hold about thirty  
icons used by my application's buttons. "


I have already replied to this type of question 3-5 times over the  
past 2 years. That's really a "classical one".


meaning that an evaluation of the available resource when pursuing  
a specific type of design, plus a heads up with respect to the  
potential gotchas, is probably a better approach. Break down the  
kinds of things that might be attempted by someone, and they  
outline an approach that they might use to achieve those ends. I  
don't think there is a lot of new ground that would have to be  
broken, just guidance as to where to look for an specific  
challenge; since you can spend a lifetime reading all the stuff  
that is available, but not really find the things that a person  
might need at the time. I'm just running off at the mouth, so  
excuse me. I know you understand, probably far better than I do.


That was expressed far better than I would have been able to ;-).

Various things I was thinking about :

-
1. Book formats
-

Wicked cool?

Demo chapter for Wicked java

Wicked cool shell scripts

Wicked cool perl scripts


Phrase Book?

PHP Phrasebook (Sample Chapters)


Hacks?

PHP Hacks (Sample Hacks)


-
2. Design Patterns
-

Design Patterns / Interface Design?

Ajax Design Patterns (Sample chapter, pdf)


Designing Interfaces


-
3. Benchmarking data
-

See this forum post by Richard,

as an excellent example.

I'm actually having to take an hiatus from my column on Revolution  
there; perhaps for as long as a couple of months.


That's the same for me. I can contribute time and effort. However, I  
cannot do that continuously over a year period. Hence the idea of  
going for a structure which allows for different persons to take  
responsibility for this.


With FB, I tried to recruit a team to work with me on the  
"template" approach, and got a few tak

Re: [OFF] Input/Info Requested

[Marielle Lange]

Devin,

In theory I approve. However (1) we have been asking for this for  
more than 3 years and this hasn't happened and (2) Revolution never  
shows himself keen on a structure where contributions can easily be  
made.


The scripting conference success was to a huge extent thanks to the  
work, time, dedication that Jacque did put into that.


Apart for Bill (the resident bug chaser) and Lynn (the principal  
revdeveloper editor), I don't see much evidence of this.


On the revdeveloper wiki, there is now a copy of the Revolution user  
guide.



There is also some text according to which : "The wiki version of the  
Revolution User’s Guide will differ from the printed documentation.  
The wiki will include additional headings and a Wiki Notes footer at  
the bottom of each page. This will include any important notes from  
the wiki editor. The wiki version may also contain user supplied  
notes, comments and addendums. These may be incorporated into the  
printed guide at some time in the future." [funny, in my latin  
classes, I learned that the plural of addendum was addenda... however  
  
proposes addendums as the form to adopt... though the addenda form  
obviously exists ]


But I have been discussing off list months ago, to ask and how things  
could be set to make it possible for members of the community to make  
contributions. Though I have been told that there was interest in  
this on runrev side, no progress whatsoever has been made.


As I said. That's 3 years that this request has been made. In terms  
of time available on runrev side, I don't see anybody who can take  
responsibility for this. Unless Bill comes up with a description of a  
structure that makes it realistic for things to start to happen, a  
wikibook seems the best way to go.


You may enjoy the reading of this excellent article
"How I Learned To Stop Worrying and Relinquish Control"

Control = nothing ever happens.

I don't mind it being on a runrev website, but provided that's in a  
zone where users have some ability to change and update the  
content... eventually via some edition process by which the changes  
are not shown to the public before the content has been approved by  
an editor in charge.


Best,
Marielle


On 16 Mar 2007, at 21:00, Devin Asay wrote:

You're right Bill. It ought to be shepherded by runrev and kept in  
a consistently-maintained repository at runrev.com. That's gonna be  
stop 1 for newbies looking for online help with Rev.


Devin



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Re: [OFF] Input/Info Requested

[Marielle Lange]

Marielle Lange wrote:
Any other material out there we may have the right to re-use if  
we  were to start a few pages on revolution programming there?


I'm not sure it's necessary to replicate content, but you're  
welcome to link to any of the fine articles community members have  
contributed to revJournal over the years:


<http://www.revjournal.com/>


Thanks for this, Richard. I am against replication as well... more  
trying to find a way to integrate all different resources into one  
good manual ;-).


Marielle


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Re: [OFF] Input/Info Requested

[Marielle Lange]

One thought bringing another.

Various persons have complained about the absence of good resources  
for newbies... well, all tools are there to create these resources.  
If on wikibooks, anybody has the opportunity to correct anything at  
anytime.


Joe, any way some of the material you wrote at:
<http://www.macinstruct.com/codemojo>

Or Devin, the excellent material at:
<http://revolution.byu.edu/chum281.001/schedule.html>
<http://revolution.byu.edu/chum381/schedule.php>

Could be used to create a revolution programming textbook on wikibooks:
<http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Ruby_Programming>
<http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Non-Programmer%27s_Tutorial_for_Python/ 
Hello%2C_World>


Any other material out there we may have the right to re-use if we  
were to start a few pages on revolution programming there?


Best regards,
Marielle

--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Windows Vista Free!

[Marielle Lange]

And Parallels for free for mac users :-D.

Marielle

On 14 Mar 2007, at 18:57, Mark Talluto wrote:

Rev is running a really amazing promo as most of you have probably  
seen.  Just thought I would point out that there is an option to  
get Windows Vista Free with a Revolution upgrade everyone needs to  
probably get anyways.  That is an incredible deal!  What are you  
waiting for?  Go get it!




Mark Talluto



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Re: Launching the Calculator

[Marielle Lange]

Hello Mark,

You will find runrev calculator stacks on the stacks gallery revolution.widged.com/stacks/index.php?category=widgets_ecards>,  
under calculator as well as on revOnline under IanMcK.


Best,
Marielle


On 14 Mar 2007, at 13:13, Mark Greenberg wrote:

An alternative would be for them to create their own calculator  
within the stack or as a substack.  They only have three weeks to  
finish this project, so I was hoping to avoid that rout.


Thanks in advance,

Mark Greenberg



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open stacks gallery updates

[Marielle Lange]

The open stacks gallery has been updated with nice stacks spotted on  
revOnline.

<http://revolution.widged.com/stacks/>

If you would like your work to be shown there, simply send me an  
email with information about your stack. Your stack don't need to be  
on revOnline for me to link to it. It can be on your own website or I  
happily host a local copy of it.


Best,
Marielle

PS. if at any point you would like me to stop linking to one of your  
stack, let me know as well.


----
Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Can Runrev 2.5.1 build website ??

[Marielle Lange]

Dear Supote,

A few tutorials on building CGI's with revolution have appeared in  
runrev's newsletters:


Part 1. 
Part 2. 
Part 3. 

Part 4. 
Part 5. 
Part 6. 


Best,
Marielle

On 14 Mar 2007, at 09:41, supote songthammawat wrote:


Hi everybody,

I want to know runrev v.2.5.1 can build website as PHP, Html.
Please tell or suggest me. And if can do how to build website by  
use runrev?


   Thank you.

Best Regard,
Supote



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[OT] Digital Outlook Report

[Marielle Lange]

Found on Guy Kawasaki's blog <http://blog.guykawasaki.com/>

"Avenue A Razorfish recently published the 2007 Digital Outlook  
Report (6230.6K). This report examines trends in the way consumers,  
publishers, and advertisers employ digital media to have a  
conversation with each other."


http://guykawasaki.typepad.com/DMOR_FINAL_reduced.pdf

Best,
Marielle

----
Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education


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Re: Naive as usual . . .

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Richmond,


Yes it is! Autres meurs, autres fois!


I am more familiar with the quote "autre mœurs, autre époque"

As you set to cultivate this list, let me follow your lead and let  
non french speakers get a chance to seize the meaning of this. ;-D


Moeurs is sometimes translated by morals. However, it has a more  
general meaning of customs, trends, ways of life that characterize a  
set period in history, good and bad ;-).  "c'est entré dans les  
moeurs" for instance, means "it has become the way of doing of the  
majority".


Epoque just means set period of time in history. "Belle époque" for  
instance "was a period in French history that began during the late  
19th Century and lasted until World War" 



For the license, best would be to clarify this with support.

Marielle
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Re: Naive as usual . . .

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Richmond,

This means that they consider you didn't have an active "Revolution  
maintenance plan". I agree, the wording is most ambiguous. They wrote  
"any version of Revolution" and the page at: "http://www.runrev.com/";  
has Revolution Media on one side and Revolution Studio on the other.  
However, when it comes to legal issues,  you always have to check up  
every single word. It says "free update". I assume they don't  
consider a revolution studio version to be an update for a revolution  
media license.


Marielle


"The most exciting news of all: Revolution 2.7.5 will
be a free update. If you had an active Revolution
maintenance plan as of February 1, 2006, or if you
purchased any version of Revolution 2.7, you will
receive Revolution 2.7.5 at no charge."



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Re: Moving a File

[Marielle Lange]

Dave,


Can't you see the sense in this?


The recommendations made to you to add an entry to the database are  
not because we believe your recommendations are any inappropriate.


If you take me, for instance, in complete contradiction with what I  
told you (the big and small stone), when recently Klaus signaled me a  
problem with a broken link on my webpage, I went on to fix it  
immediately. In fact, I even toke the opportunity to run a full check  
and correct all other errors on that page. Toke me 10 minutes.


It's not that you are not right. It's that other persons believe that  
an approach different than the one you recommend is a better fit to  
them.


What we tried to tell you is that if you want your comments to be  
taken into account, there is only one way... add an entry to the  
database. It's not guaranteed the change will be implemented any  
soon. What is guaranteed, however, is that problems that are signaled  
on this list won't be taken into account.


Marielle

On 12 Mar 2007, at 12:31, Dave wrote:

Well, be done with it then! No one forced you to take part in the  
discussion it was your choice. All I am saying that for these small  
changes that only affect the online docs, it would make much more  
sense to just do them, rather than add them to a list. The reason I  
say this is from recent experience:


A couple of months ago one of my customers contacted me about the  
content of one of the fields in an information dialog. The text was  
worded such that it was possible misunderstand what was being said  
and that could lead to records by being deleted by mistake from a  
database. I corrected it there and then and had a new version for  
them within an hour. I could do this since I knew it would not  
affect any other part of the system since it was just displayed  
text and contained no logic and was not referenced by any other  
part of the system. It was so like the case of the "rename" and  
"delete array item" documentation gliches that it sprang to mind  
immediately. The benefits of this approach are:


1.  There is no need to waste time adding it to a database.
2.  There is no need to waste time checking the database.
3.  The customer is impressed with the speedy response and this in  
turn generates a feeling of "being looked after" and customer loyalty.

4.   It is one less thing to worry about.

Of course I can understand the need to have a database to track  
problems that contain logic and implication else where in the  
system. But for simple things like the cases I mention is it a lot  
better to just do them.


Can't you see the sense in this?

All the Best
Dave

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Best regards,
Marielle

----
Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Word-Processor Icons

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Richmond,

Thanks for the contribution. Looks good.

A very nice collection, free of use (attribution license -- link back  
mentioned as a nice gesture) . Limited to small-sized icons, though.


Best,
Marielle

On 10 Mar 2007, at 18:04, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


It Must Be The Weather . . .

Having been 'suckered' to write somebody else's
software I prepared some images to use as icons in
Word-Processor ToolBars:

WP ICONS

at RevOnline



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Re: iGame3D Rev External

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Derek,

Ah, sorry. :)  BTW:  I did get the PC version to download, but  
Revolution throws up error messages every time I try to run it  
(even with the externals in the Revolution folder).


Note that it doesn't go in the externals folder but in the Revolution  
folder itself. For instance, it is in the folder "2.7.4-gm-1" itself  
on my computer.


For those who want to see before trying, check out the screencast:


Marielle

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users in Central Scotland?

[Marielle Lange]

Dear Scottish users,

At the first meeting in Edinburgh, a bit less than a month ago, users  
present had asked to have Runrev be kind enough to forward an email  
for us to users in Scotland. Well rather than do that they proposed a  
meeting of their own, with a fee and guest speaker... and well that  
meeting was due to happen yesterday. Well this didn't happen.


If there are users who live in Central Scotland and are interested in  
regular join up together, please take contact with me and I will try  
and organize something.


Best regards,
Marielle


Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education


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Re: image flipping problem -- bug entry?

[Marielle Lange]

Thanks Mark and Scott,

I have added the info you provided on the bug report.


Note that, as I had marked the bug as major, the bug was confirmed  
yesterday by Oliver.


Marielle

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image flipping problem -- bug entry?

[Marielle Lange]

The loss of quality of an image upon flipping has been reported as:
<http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=4512>

A visual illustration of the problem is provided at:
<http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/attachment.cgi?id=627>
or you can try it for yourself using the demonstration stack
go url "http://revolution.widged.com/bugs/image_flipping_pb.rev";

related bug: 4098. Rotation looses the quality+transparency of the  
image, which has been confirmed on 2.8 by runrev staff yesterday  
(hey, they go through the list of bugs ;-) ).


A work around for this problem is to first parse the alphadata to  
replace all values under 15 by a value of 0 and all values over 240  
by a value of 255. Some code for manipulating the alphadata of a  
picture was provided at:

<http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=418>

Best,
Marielle

----
Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education

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image flipping problem -- bug entry?

[Marielle Lange]

Somebody mentioned an issue with image flipping on the list but I  
cannot find a report in quality center. I have a little demo stack  
ready to upload there. A search on flip doesn't return any  
appropriate entry.


If there is one, let me know, otherwise, I will enter one.

The problem is: when flipping images that contain graded alpha values  
(typically a png image), the image is reduced to one with categorical  
alpha (either fully transparent either fully opaque). A second issue  
is that on first flipping, a small dashed border may appear. 2.8,  
build 360, MacOSX.


Best regards,
Marielle


Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Moving a File

[Marielle Lange]

Yes, but if you grind *huge* stones down into sand, you will get  
even more into the vase and it takes less time.


I like analogies too!


Things are not what they seem to be, nor are they otherwise... --  
Lankavatarasutra


:-D
Marielle

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Re: Moving a File

[Marielle Lange]

That would be great. Thanks :-)


No problem, but don't you really think this is silly?


Since I became involved in software development myself, I came to  
think that no, this isn't silly at all.


Take this little game:

<http://www.widged.com/portfolio/index.php?entry=Images/games/ 
kytoto_geometry.jpg>


This was done in a bit of a hurry to meet a deadline (they were  
announcing a competition and this stack was to help persons create a  
graphic for that competititon).


Somebody made me very valuable comments on how I can improve it.  
Implementing the comments wouldn't take me more than 1 hour of work.  
But implementing these changes won't bring me any direct benefit. So,  
it's not on the top of my priority list. If I was doing just that,  
rapidly react to some input I receive, I would never be finishing  
anything that is on top of my priority list. The comments have been  
written down in a log book and will stay there until I have time to  
dedicate to this project.


*Everything* is systematically written in my log book and/or some  
feature and bug tracking web-based software similar to Bugzilla. It  
takes a bit of discipline, but I find it a far more efficient way to  
go than act on the spur of the moment. Another advantage of keeping  
everything written down is that once or twice a year, I can run an  
analysis of the problems that have been reported (along with the time  
of notification and the time for fixing them). Reflect on them and  
rethink my strategy or my work habits.


In a book on successful work habits that point was made very nicely.  
It went something like this. If you take a vase and a bunch of  
stones, all of different sizes. If you try and put the small stones  
first, then at some point you won't be able to put the big ones in  
anymore. However, if you go the other way around, start with the big  
stones, you would be surprised at how many stones you can put in your  
vase.



then finally (if we are lucky) it *might* get fixed!


If you want a faster route, here is what I propose. I made available  
a library of file processing functions at: revolution.widged.com/libraries/lib_fileprocessing_v0.3.txt>. I  
recently fixed various problems with the documentation of each function.


As you can see, the "rename" function is marked as "TBD" (to be  
done). If you provide me with the function of your dreams as well as  
adequate documentation for this function, I will add it to that  
file :-).


And if you come up with suggestions on how to improve the function, I  
promise, I will write them down and take them into account... but  
probably not act on them immediately ;-).


Best regards,
Marielle


Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Rev 2.9 Beta Test Program?

[Marielle Lange]

Last email I received from runrev.com proper was from jo@ regarding  
the Edinburgh get together, received 23/2/07 15:59.


You live in Central Scotland?

Marielle

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Re: Moving a File

[Marielle Lange]

As expressed in my previous email, if you take the time to report  
of the problem in the quality center ,  
I will take the time to support your report :-D


Thanks, I will when I get home at the weekend unless I can get it  
to work from here.


That would be great. Thanks :-)

Marielle

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Re: Moving a File

[Marielle Lange]

Which is obviously dismissing the problem and making it sound like  
I am wasting my time by posting my suggestions and warnings on the  
list.


Right, that's exactly the message I tried to convey: You are wasting  
your time  ;-).


Indeed, it is good practice to check with the list that what others  
think of an issue. But once you get to the point where you are  
convinced that there is a problem that needs to be fixed, if you want  
your comments / criticisms / recommendations / suggestions /  
complaints to be heard and more importantly, to be acted upon, this  
is not the right place to voice them.


 it wouldn't be the best use of my time to clarify on this list  
what I think of that rename function


But you did in your last post.


This was to reassure you that I didn't dismiss the content of your  
comments, which I don't. ;-).


To be honest, on bad days, at times where stress is peaking, I can  
get infuriated at stuff like the ones you pointed at. But I don't  
feel in the mood to infuriate myself today ;-).


As expressed in my previous email, if you take the time to report of  
the problem in the quality center , I  
will take the time to support your report :-D


Marielle

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Re: Moving a File

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Dave,

Are you seriously telling us that you believe that the way that the  
"rename" works is a good way to implement a "rename" function in a  
high level programming environment aimed at novice programers?


I don't disagree with the criticisms being made. I fully agree that  
more consistent naming conventions should be adopted. I also agree  
that if a function is introduced that bears the same name as a  
function very familiar to users, then the same behavior should be  
implemented to avoid confusions.


However, what I know from my own life experience is that if you give  
as feedback to a person (or company in this context) that they are  
completely incompetent... do it again and again... and you will be  
confirmed in your belief.


They have set up a quality center as well as a Beta exercise that  
directly involves any user who wish to participate. Bill is putting a  
lot of his time and effort into this. What I heard from Revolution  
(Marcus, who I met at the last user group in Edinburgh) is that his  
work is highly valued and put to good use to try and kill bugs one by  
one.


Something that has been said from time to time is that an important  
problem they have is that the code as it is written for now hasn't  
been written in a way that allow for easy tracking and bashing of the  
bugs. Because of this, they have to go through important rewrite and  
reorganisation of the code, at engine level (well, you will have to  
ask somebody more knowledgeable than me for details). They have been  
working on this, in parallel to these partial bug fixes and XP  
release. Only a part of their team works on bug fixes while the other  
part of the team works on 2.9.


Many criticisms you made are valid. However, as far as I can tell,  
they are doing the right thing.


As I have evidence that they are doing the right thing and that the  
reports filled in the quality center are processed and acted upon, it  
wouldn't be the best use of my time to clarify on this list what I  
think of that rename function or the absence of warning in the doc on  
this list.  If you enter a report in the quality center and provide  
the link to it on this list, I will take the time to comment it... on  
the quality center. You may  have the happy surprise to discover that  
most users on this list in fact approve of the content of many of  
your comments.


Marielle



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Re: 2 standalone build-related questions (OS X)

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Mike,

Have any of you perhaps developed a nice "hand" cursor thats a  
full hand and not just one pointer finger as in the Rev default  
cursor?


You have nice collections of cursors at Gnome as well:
<http://www.gnome-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=36>
Beware, however, that most of the time, the licenses don't allow you  
to use them in commercial software. Always check the terms carefully.


You have full hands in most collections.
For instance:
<http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=27913>
<http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=31480>
<http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=28310>
<http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=52027>
<http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=32627>
<http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=38459>

Some of them come with a png version, others don't. On a mac, you can  
use graphicconverter to edit svg files.


Best,
Marielle

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Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Moving a File

[Marielle Lange]

I agree I wouldn't want a dialog box either, but it would be good  
if it either just refused to delete the file silently, returned an  
error code and/or threw an an exception that could be "caught".


if there is a file tTargetFile then
	throw "the file already exists" -- replace by a more appropriate  
error message

else
rename file tSourceFile to tTargetFile
end if

I expect you to tell me: If this is that simple, why didn't they code  
it like this? Because sometimes you want the ability to overwrite the  
file without an error to be thrown. The responsibility to check for  
file existence is therefore left to the programmer so to give him  
more flexibility.


Sure, a warning in the docs of the like "if the file exists, it will  
be overwitten" could be added.


Marielle

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Re: Rev 2.9 Beta Test Program?

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Luis,


From the RunRev front page:

'Revolution 2.9 Open Community Beta Test Program - Runtime  
Revolution is pleased to embark on a new community beta test  
program starting with Revolution 2.9. For more information read our  
newsletter article (http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/november/ 
issue13/newsletter1.php) or sign up today!'


The newsletter article refers to 2.7.5...


I believe they did refer to that article because it provides basic  
information on beta testing. For instance:



What You Can Do for Revolution

Now is the time to make the next version of Revolution the best it  
can be:


* Please go here to request that we send you the pre-release  
version of Revolution 2.7.5 today  [obviously, update with a more  
recent version]
* Visit http://support.runrev.com/bugdatabase and become familiar  
with BugZilla, the tracking mechanism we use for bug reports
* Join us at http://forums.runrev.com to see the new discussion  
boards we’ve set up exclusively for beta testers. This is the  
official venue for all communication about the beta.


If you’re not already a user of BugZilla or the forums, please  
register so that you can participate. Bill will be posting new  
information about the pre-release versions, testing tips, bug- 
reporting tips, and special testing requests throughout the beta test.


You depend on us for a great development platform, and we depend on  
you for feedback on how we’re doing. Please log in to the forums  
above and give us as much information about your system setup and  
as much detail as you can about the bugs you find. We need to hear  
from you! If you don’t report it we can’t fix it.


Bill is bringing his enormous experience to bear to make Revolution  
2.7.5 the best it can be. Will you?

More information at:

Welcome to the Revolution 2.7.5 Open Community Beta: forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=390>


Testing Tools and Tips: 


How to Report Bugs: 



The information published in the context of 2.7.5 are still relevant.

That the beta effort has survived 2.7.5 and has gone forward up to  
2.9 is rather an excellent news. This is in great part due to Bill's  
dedication (thanks Bill) and user taking these beta exercises seriously.


Best,
Marielle
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Re: Sorting text -- frequency count addition

[Marielle Lange]

Hi there,
As an addition to this does the sorting machinery allow frequency  
counts for words in a text field?



on mouseup
  put the text of field 1 into tText
  put replacetext(tText, "[^\w\s]", "") into tText
  put replacetext(tText, "\b\d+\b", "") into tText
  put replacetext(tText, "\s+", " ") into tText
  set the itemdel to " "
  sort items of tText by word 1 of each
  put tText
  put frequencyCount(tText, true) into message
end mouseup

function frequencyCount pText, pCaseSensitive
  if pText is empty then return empty
  
  if pCaseSensitive is true then
put tolower(pText) into pText
   end if
   
  set the itemdel to " "
  repeat with x = 1 to the number of items in pText
put item x of pText into tWord
if tWord is empty then next repeat
if aWordFreq[tWord] is empty then
  put 1 into aWordFreq[tWord]
else
  put aWordFreq[tWord] + 1 into aWordFreq[tWord]
   end if
end repeat
put the keys of aWordFreq into tKeys
put empty into tList
repeat for each line tKey in tKeys
  put tKey && "(" & aWordFreq[tKey] & ")" & cr after tList
end repeat
sort lines of tList by item 1 of each
   -- replace cr with "  " in tList
return tList
  end frequencyCount


Both the sorting and the frequency count functions were typed in 2  
minutes, you may have to tweak them a little to ensure a correct  
behavior.


Best,
Marielle


Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Simulated mouse messages

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Brent,

I'm working on simulating mouse messages and am hung up on how to  
simulate mouseDown, mouseStillDown, and mouseUp messages from  
script (specifically, network messages). Any thoughts?


Send is the obvious solution. Another one is "call". Another one is  
"click".


Send:  "All object references in the message are evaluated *relative  
to the target object*, not to the object whose script issued the send  
command. "
Call: "handler you call are treated *relative to the object whose  
script issued the call command*, not relative to the object you specify.
Click: "Use the click command to simulate the action of a click,  
instead of sending a mouseDown or mouseUp message--for example, to  
create a graphic or image with a handler."


A better way, however, is to write your script to work independent of  
the specific controls on the interface


on mouseup
doWhateverNeedsToBeDoneOnMouseup
end mouseup

on doWhateverNeedsToBeDoneOnMouseup
... processing ...
end doWhateverNeedsToBeDoneOnMouseup

and call "doWhateverNeedsToBeDoneOnMouseup" rather than "mouseup"

Best,
Marielle

Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Sorting text

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Greg,


1. Does anyone have a similar program


If you download SoSmartSoftware excellent revonline picker:
<http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/?r=revolution&l=en>
You can look for "user movable fields" or look for "Troutfoot" on  
revonline.


My plan was to shuffle a sentence and get him to click on words to  
paste the word into another text box in the correct order.


Feel free to contact me on list or privately if you need any help on  
this (send me a copy if you post on list as I don't always have the  
time to check out each post on the list).


That's an exercise I need to add to my exercist collection:
<http://projects.widged.com/exercist/drupal/?q=node/610>

To get a better idea of what you are after, in the collection at:   
<http://projects.widged.com/exercist/gallery/>
What is the closest to what you have in mind:  (1) Unscrambel (2)  
Unscramble the sentence  (3) Sentence Reconstruction (4) Mixed-up  
Sentence (5) Fridge Magnets... or something different?



2. Sorting. I am using the "sort" command to sort the words in a  
container from the text field, but they are not sorting. If I  use  
a few lines of text, then these get sorted, but I was under the  
impression that if the line "sort items of holder" (holder as a  
variable) is used, then the words in a container would be sorted.  
But it is not.



on mouseup
  put the text of field 1 into tText
  put replacetext(tText, "[^\w\s]", "") into tText
  put replacetext(tText, "\b\d+\b", "") into tText
  put replacetext(tText, "\s+", " ") into tText
  set the itemdel to " "
  sort items of tText by word 1 of each
  put tText
  put cr & "---" & cr & deleteDuplicates(tText, true) after message
  put cr & "---" & cr & deleteDuplicates(tText, false) after message
end mouseup

function deleteDuplicates pText, pCaseSensitive
  if pText is empty then return empty
  
  if pCaseSensitive is true then
set the casesensitive to true
  else
-- set the casesensitive to false
put tolower(pText) into pText
  end if
  
  set the itemdel to " "
  repeat with x = the number of items in pText down to 2
  if item x of pText = item (x-1) of pText then delete item x of  
pText

  end repeat
  return pText
end deleteDuplicates



The first replacetext will get rid of stuff like "?.:," (\w = word  
character, \s = spacing character; [^xy] = any character but x or y).  
You may want it or not, up to you to see. The second one will get rid  
of any number or sequence of digits on their own (\b = word boundary,  
\d = digit). The third one will replace any sequence of spaces, tabs  
or any other spacing characters with a single space.


You may have or not some use of the second function, to delete  
duplicates within the sorted text (useful to avoid mutiple instances  
of "the", "in", etc.)


Best,
Marielle


Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education


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Re: Moving a File

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Dave,

What about using the shell? Impossible to consider at all?

Marielle

The obstacle is the path.
--Zen Proverb

On 5 Mar 2007, at 14:47, Dave wrote:


Hi Marielle,

The files are in excess of 3 GB and some can be be as large as 200  
GB! I don't think that will work very well!!!


I need a native "move" command! Don't tell me there isn't one!?!?

All the Best
Dave


On 5 Mar 2007, at 14:44, Marielle Lange wrote:


Hi Dave,

Have a try with "revCopyFile"

Examples from the doc:
revCopyFile "/Disk/myfile","/Disk/Folder/"
revCopyFile "data/settings.txt","olddata"
revCopyFile the sourceFile of this card, it

Best,
Marielle


Hi,

How do I move a File from one folder to another? I found  
revMoveFolder, but no Move File command.



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Best regards,
Marielle


Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Moving a File

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Dave,

Have a try with "revCopyFile"

Examples from the doc:
revCopyFile "/Disk/myfile","/Disk/Folder/"
revCopyFile "data/settings.txt","olddata"
revCopyFile the sourceFile of this card, it

Best,
Marielle


Hi,

How do I move a File from one folder to another? I found  
revMoveFolder, but no Move File command.



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Re: Transcript Language Module for UltraEdit

[Marielle Lange]

http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/downloads/ 
stsMLXEditor.htm


And this is really a great plugin. I have come to completely depend  
on it ;-).


Maybe you could consider notetab, as well, on PC www.notetab.com/>. This was my favorite editor when I was mostly a PC  
user (well a few years back).


Marielle

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Re: File transferring

[Marielle Lange]

"put url to url"


In case this is not a typo, note that the correct syntax is
put URL ("file:" & tPath) into URL tURL
put URL tURL into URL ("file:" & tPath)

where tURL is  something like "http://my.domain.com/folder/file.ext";  
and tPath is something like "/Users/myname/folder/file.ext" (on a  
mac) or "c:/folder/file.ext" (on a pc -- well I leave pc users  
correct me on this)


Marielle


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callbacks

[Marielle Lange]

As there was a discussion involving callbacks recently. When browsing  
my notes, I was reminded of the existence of this article:


Creating Rich Media Applications with Callbacks by Elanor Buchanan
<http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/july/issue4/newsletter3.html>

Marielle

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Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: RSS Feeds (Really Simple Syndication)

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Klaus,

Thanks very much for this. Fixed.

Note that any delay about the hour + 1 minute is due to cron jobs.  
And, yes, the website is a bit too slow to my taste. I should move  
onto a dreamhost account, which offers better bandwidth than my  
current provider, but well, short of money for now.


Marielle

On 1 Mar 2007, at 18:06, Klaus Major wrote:


Hi Marielle,


Hi Joe,

This page is not linked to from anywhere:



I noticed that some of your pages, like the one above, take very  
long to load.


I saw in the "Activity" window of "Safari" that this URL "http:// 
lexicall.org/_admin/js/overlib_mini.js"
is causing the trouble and finally after the page has loaded I see  
in that window "Host not found" for this JS lib.


Could you take a look please?




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Re: RSS Feeds (Really Simple Syndication)

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Joe,

This page is not linked to from anywhere:
<http://revolution.widged.com/stacks/listing.php>

But it contains a RSS reader written with Revolution. Well, this was  
one of the very first stacks I wrote with revolution. Feel free to  
build upon it. There is also a blog updater one, to simply post some  
blog content to your blogger account. Then in that category too, some  
stack that lets you run a search for google images on your desktop  
(be made aware this was done as a scripting exercise, anybody who  
intends to runs frequent queries on google should purchase an api  
account). Man, this was *very* early coding.


The Awk Script runner is something similar to what Chipp described.  
It is for running awk (rather than Python) scripts over the shell.  
There is no callback mechanism and the code was written at a time I  
was most unexperienced ;-). There is a nice little code editor  
included, though, with a nifty solution for code coloring.


Marielle



On 1 Mar 2007, at 16:38, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:


Hi all,

If you don't know how to use "RSS" feeds, you need to read Matt  
Cone's tutorial that appears today at Macinstruct.com - click:


 <http://www.macinstruct.com/node/62> It'll be an eye-opener for  
you it is so "Really Simple" to use.


Joe Wilkins
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Best regards,
Marielle

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Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: like pass, but without ending the handler

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Jacque,

No. Only the messages listed in the docs can be flushed from the  
queue.  You can flush "all" messages, but other than that, choices  
are limited to the specific ones in the docs.


Thanks for making clear that though the events that can be flushed  
bear the same name as familiar messages, flushing events and locking  
messages are two very different things indeed. The text below that I  
pasted within the chat session is in fact from the doc. It makes that  
point clearly indeed.


Marielle: "Although some of the eventTypes have the same names as  
built-in Transcript messages, there is a distinction. For example,  
the mouseDown event type is the operating system's response to the  
user clicking the mouse button. When the operating system sends  
this event to the application, Revolution sends a mouseDown message  
to the target object. The expression flushEvents(mouseDown)  
prevents the application from responding to any mouseDown events it  
has received from the operating system, but has not yet  
processed." [revdocs, flushevents entry]


I discussed flushevents very brielfy with Marcus (van Houdt). The  
recommendation was to stay away from using flushevents unless having  
a very good reason to use it.


I am a psycholinguist, I am a lot more comfortable with regular  
expressions than with lockmessages or flushevents constructs ;-). I  
would be interested in hearing about some recipes. When to consider  
using them? What to be careful about? (like the increase in CPU that  
was mentioned when attempts of multithreading are made).


If I receive enough input on this, I will write a tutorial  
summarizing the contributions on some wiki page of mine. There is  
nothing better than trying to explain to others to try and understand  
something ;-)


Marielle



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Software Wars! Making Pirates Work for You

[Marielle Lange]

Software Wars! Making Pirates Work for You by Scott Kane

Very nice article. Thanks Scott.

Marielle

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Re: like pass, but without ending the handler

[Marielle Lange]

Jacque, could you please clarify this?  What's the difference between
happening and being acted on?  If Rev loses messages, I'd like to
understand, so I don't write code that's likely to fail and that  
cannot be

debugged.

-- Dick


Got a discussion on this with Mark on chatrev a fortnight ago... is  
this part of the dialogue any related to your question? (see the 2  
buttons situation below)



Marielle: I tried creating a stack. One button.
Marielle: Button script:
Marielle: on mouseup  lock messages ... answer "hi" ... end  
mouseup
Marielle: if I click over and over again on the button, I get to  
see the dialog box
Mark: of course, because lock messages doesn't stop the running  
handler
Mark: it only stops messages from being sent and thus prevents  
"new" handlers from being run
Marielle: not the current one. But if I am supposed to put xtalk in  
a "I don't listen" mode, then this wouldn't work the second time.
Mark: no, because messages are unlocked as soon as all handlers  
have finished running
Mark: d.w.z. all handlers that are called by the currently running  
handler

Marielle: okay
Marielle: so that's just temporary.
Marielle: okay, two buttons. First one, on mouseup ... answer  
"hi"... end mouseup
Marielle: second one, on mouseup  set the lockmessages to  
true ... send mouseup to button 1 ... end mouseup

Marielle: I still see the dialog box
Mark: do you mean, you see the dialog box twice?
Mark: oh, two buttons
Mark: ok
Marielle: but if I send "click at the loc of button 1" then I don't  
see it.
Mark: so, that's normal, because you are calling a handler from an  
already running handler

Mark: right, because "click" makes the engine send the message
Mark: and lock messages prevents the engine from sending these  
messages

Marielle: okay, I start to understand better
Marielle: lock messages prevent messages triggered by onscreen  
events from being listened to (forwarded is probably more exact)
Marielle: flush events gets these messages created...accumulate  
them then trash them.
Mark: more exact would be to say that lock messages prevents the  
engine from sending the messages, while you can still "send" them  
yourself

Marielle: yes, that's what I mean by "onscreen" events
Marielle: (messages that are the results of user actions)
Mark: flush events doesn't accumulate any messages, it just trashes  
messages if they are waiting at that particular moment

Mark: "waiting" meaning that they are in the queue
Marielle: so messages get processed as they arrive. If messages  
haven't been processed yet, they get trashed?

Mark: sorry, in what kind of situation?
Marielle: generic case (abstract level) let's try to come up  
with a situation.
Marielle: I have a button. On click triggers a process that takes a  
few computer cycles.
Marielle: I have a user with problems who just decided to bang his  
head on the keyboard. That slow process is triggered again and again.

Marielle: the engine will do its best to process all request.
Marielle: but a flushevents will just tell it "forget about it",  
ignore all other requests in the queue?

Marielle: is it something like this?



I paste below the rest the dialog, relevant to these issues, below  
this reveals my abysmal lack of mastery of any advanced concept.


I would be keen as well to have a good explanation on messages, when  
they can be skipped or left in the queue or discarded. flushevents vs  
lockmessages, when to use them, how to use them, etc.



Marielle: related question. Lock messages... what is it for exactly?
[...]
Mark: lock messages just stops all messages from being sent
Mark: all of them
Mark: but the handler that is running keeps running of course
Marielle: it's just that calls to any other handlers are not made  
anymore?

Mark: no
Mark: I didn't say calls
Mark: I said messages that are being sent
Mark: you can still call handlers from another handler
Marielle: so, what are messages exactly. UI events?
Marielle: what's the difference between a user clicking on the  
screen and doing "send mouseup" from within a script?

Marielle: (I mean if lockmessages is set to true)
Mark: the difference is that if the user clicks on the screen, it  
is the engine that sends a new message

Marielle: but lockmessages will have the same effect on both?
Marielle: That engine part, newbies like me never had a chance to  
understand how this works.
Mark: I believe that the messages invoked by "send" will run  
immediately

Mark: that's just another way to call a handler
Marielle: so, though you use the word "message", it will be "sent"  
despite the fact lockmessages is set to true?

Mark: yes, and yes it is logical ;-)
Marielle: sure! Logical.
Marielle: so if lockmessages doesn't prevent messages from being  
sent, what does it do?

Marielle: What is a "message", by the way?
Mark: a message is what makes handlers run
Mark: but they can be sent from another handler or by the engine
Marielle: what triggers them?
Mark: and loc

Re: like pass, but without ending the handler

[Marielle Lange]

Thanks for asking the question, Dick and for keeping the flow going,  
Chipp, that was an highly informative thread. "wait [time] with  
messages" was a priceless find.



So, for posterity's sake here's the final.


And for posterity... I have resumed a good habit and archived this  
thread at:


code nicely colored, etc. etc.

Cheers,
Marielle


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Re: Groovy Graphic Demos

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Barry,

Yes, I had the same problems. I was asked to write such a small arts  
software for a client (to do what would have then have been a very  
nifty whiteboard application). Well, this got me embarrassed when I  
had to explain I could do nothing about it.


Is there a bug in quality center on this? A related one I did enter is:
<http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=4094>
But there, the problem was in part due to a problem in my own code  
because I didn't read the doc carefully enough (well, we all err).


It may be worth adding a request for enhancement specially on this  
loss of quality when flipping and image. Then another one for the  
filling report. If you can provide a demo stack to speed up  
confirmation, all the better.


Marielle

On 28 Feb 2007, at 07:48, barryb@@libero..it wrote:

Having already viewed or downloaded all these graphical marvels,  
can any one tell me why I cannot import a simple transparent  b/w  
outline image, in png or gif format, to a stack (Media & Studio)and  
then floodfill a color or flip-it without it deteriating into  
something that looks like it has been dragged through a hedge  
backwards? The stack I am trying to develop only has to do these  
two operations; something I find any kid's art application can do  
nicely.
My 5yo grandson would be very grateful if someone can solve this  
for me!

Cheers Barry


--
Passa a Infostrada. ADSL e Telefono senza limiti e senza canone  
Telecom

http://click.libero.it/infostrada28eb07


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Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Beep not working in 2.7.x and 2.8.x ????

[Marielle Lange]

I've heard Vista's computers first ask to 'allow or deny' the beep.


You mean like this:


(sorry, couldn't resist)

Marielle

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Re: Groovy Graphical Demos

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Ben,

Good collection at tactile media
<http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/>

Or the plugins or tutorials collection at sosmartsoftware:
<http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/?r=revolution&l=en>
<http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/?r=revolution_didacticiels&l=en>

Some other stacks you can download, from various members of the  
community, at:

<http://revolution.widged.com/stacks/>

Professional ones at:
<http://revolution.widged.com/stacks/case_studies.php>
(no direct download, you have to click on the info icon to go to the  
main websites were sometimes you find something to download).


Case studies on the runrev website:
<http://www.runrev.com/section/case_studies/>

Marielle

On 26 Feb 2007, at 15:09, Ben Rubinstein wrote:


Hi all,

I'm doing a bit of evangelism for Revolution (in the immediate case  
as the platform for a project that's otherwise likely to be in  
Flash, though this is an ongoing conversation with a particular  
group).  I can speak knowledgeably (or at least convincingly) about  
the programming capabilities, and can demonstrate projects that do  
cool things.


But I'm a programmer, with little visual sense or talent, and my  
projects look like trash.  Are there any groovy graphic stacks/apps  
I can demo to show what production values can be achieved in  
Revolution by those who know what they're doing?


If there's anything that's posted in RevOnline, or freely  
downloadable from a website, please let me know.


Many thanks,

- Ben

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Re: Something that Drives me *CRAZY*

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Dave,

Why not use time rather than distance? If the move was done within  
200 milliseconds (or whatever is suitable), debounce. That way, you  
can keep the changes even when 1 pixel away but the mouse left down  
long enough.


Alternatively, you could have the rule that this debouncing only  
applies to mouse movements. If I use the arrowkeys to move the  
selectedobject by one pixel, then no debouncing takes place.


Marielle

On 26 Feb 2007, at 12:27, Dave wrote:


Hi,

No, not yet. I'm not sure what the best method of "de-bouncing"  
would be in this case. If anyone would care to make some  
suggestions then we can talk about the various merits, decide which  
is the best and I'd be happy to put in a enhancement request.


All the Best
Dave



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Re: Complementary RGB Color Pairs

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Eric,

Thanks ... this is more specifically under palettes_plugins  
(collpasible toolbar and color wheel):
<http://revolution.widged.com/stacks/index.php? 
category=palettes_plugins>


You will find some links about color conversion formula and color  
schemers at:
<http://revolution.widged.com/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=DesignVisualPreferences>


For instance:
<http://meddle.dzygn.com/tests/colors/>
A very easy, elegant, visual tool that returns six complementary  
colors. The  first link is the original gem, the second one provides  
RGB values and  precise color entry.


Best,
Marielle

On 25 Feb 2007, at 10:09, Eric Chatonet wrote:


Hi Stephen and Jim,

Seeing this thread when waking up.
Yes, Monte lib is invaluable for converting colors from/to RGB,  
HEX, HTML, CMYK and even Pantone :-)
'Harmonized Colors' is not on my website but on RevOnLine (User: So  
Smart Software)
I think also that Marielle has done  nice stacks in this field: see  
http://revolution.widged.com/stacks/index.php?lastadded=added%20any% 
20time


Best Regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet

Le 25 févr. 07 à 08:05, Jim Ault a écrit :

On 2/24/07 10:47 PM, "Stephen Barncard"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

wrote:

I know there's a simple formula for this, but my brain hurts  
tonight.


I would like to calculate the complementary color from an  
inputted color trio.


For instance I know that these two sets of two colors are  
complementary.


This is not a direct answer to your question, but some examples of
outstanding color tools you might be able to use.


--Monte Goulding
http://www.sweattechnologies.com/rev/
libColor.rev

--Eric Chatonet  -- using libColor
HSL ColorsHarmonized.rev

--card script --
on MakeColor pPos
  local tNum
  lock screen
  put 0 into tNum
  repeat with i = 1 to 18
set the backColor of fld i to libColor_Convert(tNum & comma &  
pPos &

",100","RGB","HSV")
add 20 to tNum
  end repeat
  unlock screen
end MakeColor


--the stack script is an impressive library of conversions, etc.

I can send you a copy of Eric's stack or you can get it from  
SoSmartSoftware


Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 2/24/07 10:47 PM, "Stephen Barncard"  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

wrote:

I know there's a simple formula for this, but my brain hurts  
tonight.


I would like to calculate the complementary color from an  
inputted color trio.


For instance I know that these two sets of two colors are  
complementary.


0,128,128
128,0,0

255,0,0
0,255,255

represented in binary, they look like this


,1000,1000
1000,,

,,
,,


YELLOW and GREEN look like this

255,255,0
0,0,255

,, yellow
,, green


some of these look like simple inversion but I don't think it's  
quite

that simple.

I'm sure someone has worked this out...
thanks

sqb


-- 


http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/


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Re: A Public Note to Mark Wieder and the Rev list:

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Trevor,

This is an excellent suggestion. However, in practice, everything has  
already been archived in Google, Nabble, etc. The best we can do is  
stay away from keeping this thread going. If you have suggestions,  
simply email them to the person managing the list ([EMAIL PROTECTED])  
rather than the list.


Marielle


On 25 Feb 2007, at 07:29, Trevor Hopkins wrote:

How about the list administrator just removes the post(s) in  
question and Josh can just forget about the unfair and  
inappropriately placed bad publicity? That would seem to be an  
amicable solution for all.


Just my two pence.




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Any ChipWits fan out there?

[Marielle Lange]

Funny I just got the guys from ChipWits to contact me for doing beta  
testing for them.
I have to get more technical details but it sounds like there may be  
ways to plugin some RR language there. Worth following up. Anybody  
interested should just go to their websites.


Marielle

Begin forwarded message:


Marielle,

I am tracking down ChipWits fans and came across your project at  
Revolution in Education.


Mike Johnston and I are reviving ChipWits and would love you to  
join us in beta-testing it.


We want to build an online game community around ChipWits. We  
intend to open it up – allowing people to roll their own operators  
in IBOL and even to plug in different languages – graphical or  
textual.


Drop by chipwits.com and my blog – doctordroog.wordpress.com .

Gamely,

Doug Sharp


Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: A Public Note to Mark Wieder and the Rev list:

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Richmond,


Wow, can I join in? Especially as Marielle Lange and I
are experts at slinging mud at each other :)


Richmond, I am sorry to hear that I gave you the impression to spend  
my time slinging mud at you. Please receive my apologizes for doing so.


Marielle

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Re: A Public Note to Mark Wieder and the Rev list:

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Brian, Stephen,


If someone did something like this to me - I'd be REALLY pissed.
Josh, perhaps you really should consider legal action if your loss  
is a big as you say.


I have been victim of libel and defamatory comments myself, with  
effects a lot more damaging than the ones Josh complained about.


No, you don't get pissed of. Yes, of course, anger will kick in.  
However, it is *very* important to never allow yourself to react out  
of anger. This is the best way to kill your business. The first thing  
to do is to take in the information that the other person felt  
cheated and seriously consider wether the problem couldn't be  
resolved by taking the initiative to be the first one apologizing  
rather than expect the other one to do so.


What you do, before taking the person to court is look for mediation  
and try to solve the problem amicably.  Yes, off-list.


And *if* the problem cannot be solved that way, what you do is take  
legal actions and get everything taken care of off list. Making your  
problems public is the best way to damage your business. Guilty or  
innocent, you always appear guilty.


That's it. End of comments.

Marielle

IF

IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:

If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!



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Re: Rev and version control systems

[Marielle Lange]

On 21 Feb 2007, at 19:35, Ben Rubinstein wrote:

Has anyone got experience of using Revolution with general version  
control systems (eg CVS, Subversion)?


Obviously stacks can be submitted as binary files, but I was  
wondering whether anyone has gone beyond this.


Hi Ben,

What I do is store all my scripts within groups rather than at card  
or stack level. Because of this, I can easily create a system for  
managing my libraries, by which the "library group" is created on the  
fly, using a text file stored locally. I have version control on the  
text versions of the files.


If you wonder what I mean by "library", have a look at:




I have more than 60 of them ;-).


Best,
Marielle

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Re: [ANN] Son 2.0

[Marielle Lange]

Malte,

He, he, congrats! That's a very nice baby and cute kid you have there.

Best wishes,
Marielle

On 21 Feb 2007, at 20:17, Malte Brill wrote:


Hi all,

just wanted to let you know that my second kid arrived today.

Mattis Johan Pfaff
Length 55 cm
Weight 4280 gramm

http://www.derbrill.de/linusundmattis.jpg

All the best,

Malte
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Re: Old bug still in Rev 2.8 OSX Chapter 4

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Bill,

I didn't know of Joe's problem at the time. On the forum, Mark kindly  
pointed to <http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=3816 >


Well, I have tried to post a comment on the quality center but  
couldn't because I got this message: "You tried to change the  
Hardware field from Macintosh to All , but only the assignee or  
reporter of the report, or a sufficiently empowered user may change  
that field." and was unable to post. Using reply rather than comment  
gets the same result. ". So I couldn't post on the quality center.


The comment was:

"As the report is still marked as unconfirmed, let's signal I  
observed the same here.


On a mac OSX, intel, rev 2.7.4, when I drag and drop a stack file on  
the Rev application icon, which will open up revolution and then open  
up the stack, everything that takes place within the openstack  
handler doesn't execute. Tried writing to the message box, writing to  
a log file, etc.


Everything works fine when revolution is already open and I open the  
stack file via drag and drop or the menu. But commands within the  
openstack handler are not fired when the stack is being open within a  
launching revApp."


This is 100% systematic, both when I drag the file onto the  
application icon and when I double click on the file icon.


Can it be related to the speed of the computer?

Marielle




As others have explained previously, the "startup" message is designed
specifically for standalones and is not sent to stacks running  
under the IDE
no matter how they are launched. This is behaving exactly as  
documented.


I have made a sample stack to test your assertion:

http://wjm.org/linked/messagetester.rev

It properly triggers the preOpenStack, openStack, preOpenCard and  
openCard
handlers whether opened from within Rev or double-clicking the  
stack from

the Mac OS X Finder.

MacBook Core2Duo 2GHz, Mac OS X 10.4.8, Revolution 2.8 Build 350.

- Bill



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Re: Parsing A File Path

[Marielle Lange]

I don't need someone to do this for me, just point me to where I  
need to go look it up.


itemdelimiter
split
(itemdel is the fastest)

Best regards,
Marielle

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Re: MACHINE

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Richmond,

On a Mac, you can get all these machines info via a call on the shell.
<http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=455&highlight=shell>

Fold older mac version, use Ken's code:
<http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/env001.htm>

For newest OS, the call on the shell is:
system_profiler SPNetworkDataType|grep -e "MAC Address:"|awk '{print  
$0}'


(replace "MAC Address" with the information you are after... see:  
<http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/System_Profiler> for  
possible tag names).


Best wishes,
marielle

On 21 Feb 2007, at 12:47, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


My main machine is as follows:

 Machine Name:  Power Mac G4
  Machine Model:PowerMac3,6
  CPU Type: PowerPC G4  (3.3)
  Number Of CPUs:   2
  CPU Speed:1.25 GHz
  L2 Cache (per CPU):   256 KB
  L3 Cache (per CPU):   2 MB
  Memory:   1 GB
  Bus Speed:167 MHz
  Boot ROM Version: 4.4.8f2

so wonder why when I use "put the machine" into
the RR message box

I get "unknown" . . . ?

in my earlier posting about new ideas from Supercard I
was
impressed by SC 4.6.2's ability to return all sorts of
parameters about a host machine!!!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



Save the last dance for me, and don't slip in the dogs mess on
the way over to take my hand.




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[OT] CVS repository

[Marielle Lange]

Dear all,

Anybody with a CVS repository they could give me access to? That  
would be for a month, to support the beta testing of some work I did  
for Revolution. Please contact me off list about this.


Marielle

Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: let me know of nice professional stack you have produced

[Marielle Lange]

[was something along the line of "get your professional stacks  
mentioned on the case studies gallery <http://revolution.widged.com/ 
stacks/case_studies.php>]


Got 913 visitors on my widged server yesterday and 989 today, the  
counter is still ticking (it's 4pm in the UK and most of my traffic  
comes after 4pm).


Anybody keen on free advertisement of their revolution-related  
professional work is invited to  send me a screenshot of their stack  
as well as some 2-3 paragraphs description of what the stack is  
about. :-D


I will then publish this information here:
<http://revolution.widged.com/stacks/case_studies.php>

Marielle

--------
Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Multiple undo and redo

[Marielle Lange]

Richard,

Thanks for all these details. The state approach is something I am  
keen on investigating as well. I know that Andre in a previous  
discussion had discussed the idea of storing and restoring states.  
Was this solution implemented or were there only ideas being discussed?


Malte, what did you do for drops, where you have 5 undos?

Anybody else on the list with programming undos? What are the  
different approaches possible. What are the pros and cons of each  
approach (works well for data / works for ui content)?


Marielle

Most HI guidelines define an undoable action as one that affects  
data, but operations which change selection do not affect the queue.


But Rev operates differently:  If you move a button, then click  
anywhere on the card or do anything else which changes the object  
selection, executing an Undo command will not return the button to  
its pre-move location.  In fact, the mere click off of the object  
purges the Undo queue altogether (okay, maybe "queue" isn't the  
right word for a single-item Undo, but I'm optimistic about the  
future ).


And not only is the undo queue purged, but when it changes as a  
result of a selection change the undoChanged message isn't sent as  
one would expect.




When I think of good Undo architectures, I tend to think of good  
frameworks.

[...]

For example, being able to save object states would be great, esp.  
if those objects can be containers like cards and even stacks.   
Being able to store a container into a variable and restore it from  
that variable would make the rest of managing Undo queues much  
simpler.



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Re: Multiple undo and redo

[Marielle Lange]

Ben Fisher wrote:

In the Script Editor as well as in the form designer (for lack of a
better term).
In fact, while designing forms, even basic Undo itself does not seem
to work. I'm using beta 2.8. Create a new stack. Create two buttons.
Delete one of the buttons. Go Edit->Undo, and nothing happens.  
Imagine

if this button had all the scripts for your application. This is a
problem.


Have you ever implemented Undo for a scripted application?


Let's avoid the old mode of answer. Agreed, implementing redo and  
undo efficiently is not an easy task. However, Ben's comment was  
adequate. This happened to me several times. Not because I  
intentionally pressed delete. Because I was within the property  
palette and press delete to erase some text... and it rather erased  
the control.


That's one of the reason I systematically use STS/MLX excellent  
editor. 
That way, my script gets preserved even if I accidentally delete a  
control on screen (provided I was editing it, of course). And I can  
have a huge number of undo/redo under textmate (I am on a mac).


Marielle

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Re: UI design article

[Marielle Lange]

Mark,

Thanks for the link. I had posted something relevant to this on the  
forums a while ago:




To avoid the discomfort of having to switch to the forums, I paste  
the transcription below.


Best,
Marielle



Flow in Application Design


This is a technique that is presented as useful for designing web  
2.0 applications.


Well, the fuss about web 2.0 is that it allows you to design highly  
responsive web applications, with some elements within a page that  
can be refreshed independently from the other elements within the  
page.


The thing is that these features have always characterized the type  
of applications you can produce with desktop development  
environments like Revolution, RealBasic, etc.


So, any technique that is presented as improving the quality of web  
2.0 application has the potential to improve the design and quality  
of revolution applications.


Flow Diagramming is one of them.

What is it? This is about encouraging you to think in terms of  
flow: How the information changes, how responsive it is, how  
feedback is given to the user about the changes that are taking place


A good resource on this is:

Flow In Web Design (short explanation with links to other resources)




Flow in Web Design (pdf, 37 pages)



The difficulty then is about finding ways to represent how the  
information within the application changes as a consequence of user  
actions or script running.


For this purpose, the visual vocabulary proposed by Jesse Garrett  
(yep, the guy who published the paper that made Ajax popular)


A visual vocabulary for describing information architecture and  
interaction design, , along with a  
Quick Reference 


With practical examples of how this vocabulary can be used to  
represent the internal flow within an application:


Slate 


Yahoo email (for some unknown reason doesn't render well in my  
browser when I doubled checked the link)







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Re: Rev Resources

[Marielle Lange]

Marielle has been trying to the compilation for quite awhile, but  
some of
the issues are that it takes a lot of work to get things  
collected, edited
for clarity and instruction purposes, then indexed so new users  
can find

them.


Thanks for the mention, Jim. Various things.


Maybe you should give building a compilation a shot from a new user
perspective?


(1) That's what I tried to do in my first approach to compiling  
useful resources. I put a list of all the resources i know about here:
<http://revolution.widged.com/wiki/tiki-index.php? 
page=RevolutionWebsites>


In particular, to answer Jo's question, a list of tutorials of  
particular relevance to beginner users:

<http://revolution.widged.com/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=TutorialsExample>

I pasted some more links useful to the beginner scripter on the forum  
"Getting Started with Revolution Studio or Enterprise":

<http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=540>

 One issue is that advanced work is complicated and requires  
experience, but
what constitutes advanced work/concepts  that new users are not  
ready for?


(2) This is a question difficult to answer. I gave it a try with my  
second approach. I created a collection of snippet and codes that I  
tried to tag for different categories. One of these categories was "1  
novice coder 2 beginner coder 3 intermediate coder 4 advanced coder 5  
expert coder". However I find it difficult to apply these tags and  
not all snippets are tagged for that category.

<http://codes.widged.com/>

The problem with the codes CMS is that it takes an awful lot of time  
to cut and paste snippets from the list to the CMS.


(3) The new approach is to create a system by which I can run  
linguistic analyses of the content of all mailing lists and forums  
and then tag each node for critical words contained into that email  
as well as additional nodes like the categories above. I got a first  
draft of this work which gave me satisfaction. But I will need up to  
two weeks of work to get something members of the community can use.  
There is then problem that I am a freelance. Giving to the community  
has to come after earning a living. I do that when at periods between  
freelance work. I didn't have much of these for the last months. I  
can't tell you when I will have time to finish this.


Marielle

Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education



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Re: SoCal RUG: Thanks

[Marielle Lange]

Richard,

Glad to hear this was a far better success than the one here in  
Edinburgh.


Any chance any of these presentations can be seen online?

Marielle

On 16 Feb 2007, at 20:16, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Many thanks to all who attended the SoCal Rev User Group meeting we  
had Monday night, and a special thank you to those who presented here.


We wound up having three presentations:

- Josh Mellicker showed his Green Bongo distributed project  
management system, using Rev as a front-end for a remote MySQL DB


- Bill Vlahos gave us a sneak preview of a new U3 app he's working on

- Richard Herz showed us the latest edition of his wonderful  
ReactorLab, a distributed courseware system


Many folks stayed late, some as late as 1:30AM. Good Rev times. :)

Although Richard Herz drove all the way up from San Diego to be  
there, the Longest Drive to the Meeting Award this time went to Jim  
Ault, who was in town from Las Vegas.  Thanks for coming to the  
meeting, Jim.


If you're in Southern California and would like to join us, feel  
free to sign up at the SoCal RUG Yahoo Group:

<http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/socalrev/>

I'm not sure when the next meeting will be, but we'll keep ya' posted.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: let me know of nice professional stack you have produced

[Marielle Lange]

Btw, I just checked out your website. There is some nice stuff there.
I like this one in particular:


If you were kind enough to write a short description (no more than  
3 paragraphs) for each one of your application developed with  
revolution/metacard, I will then add it to the gallery of  
professional apps at:




This goes for other users as well. If you have done some nice work  
with runrev, write a short description send me the description and  
a screenshot, and I will add it there. But be warned this won't  
make it to this page before next week.


Really, please do this (not just Klaus, others as well).

My website was recently mentioned in the free software magazine:

Which means that I get a lot of traffic these days.

And there is more stuff coming that may get to give even more  
visibility to my websites in the not too far future. So if you want  
to help and give a good image of revolution, please forward  
information about the good stuff you do.


Best,
Marielle

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Re: Marielle and Richmond

[Marielle Lange]

But I personally do still think this is (at least a bit) personal,  
since I do not fully understand the whole story.


And there is no point explaining ;-).

Btw, I just checked out your website. There is some nice stuff there.
I like this one in particular:


If you were kind enough to write a short description (no more than 3  
paragraphs) for each one of your application developed with  
revolution/metacard, I will then add it to the gallery of  
professional apps at:




This goes for other users as well. If you have done some nice work  
with runrev, write a short description send me the description and a  
screenshot, and I will add it there. But be warned this won't make it  
to this page before next week.


Best,
Marielle



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Re: Marielle and Richmond

[Marielle Lange]

Could you please discuss your personal problems OFF-list?
I personally find this extremely embarrassing!


This is nothing personal. The promises that Richmond was speaking  
about have nothing to do with person to person promises. The red  
herrings etc. are about things that I got him to believe could be  
possible but didn't happen.


The reason Richmond mentioned these things were not to make a  
personal attack. The reason he mentioned them because he is thinking.  
He is trying to understand what the situation is. So, he gets into  
some old memories to try and find some answers. His trust has been  
broken. I know this.


This is not between Richmond and me. Richmond expressed things that I  
understand are in the mind of many other users, especially from the  
education group. Well, at the very least, I know this for myself. My  
trust had been badly broken as well. To the point that almost a year  
ago, I had decided to turn my back from revolution, never use it  
again, and simply spent 6 months in a strictly web-based project.  
Then things changed. Then I got persuaded to give my trust again.


I do believe that it is important to be aware of this, of the hidden  
reasons Richmond made reference to something quite old. The problem  
then is that Richmond said things that implied I was in the habit of  
making promises I wouldn't honor. Yes, I got Richmond believe in a  
vision or a  dream that didn't happen. I am very much culprit of  
this. I plead guilty to this. But I am not aware to have been culprit  
of making explicit promises I didn't honor... and if I did so, then  
my claim was honest, I would like to know and correct this. I had to  
address this. The reason I had to address this is because I may come  
to make promises in the near future. I don't explicitly make  
promises, then that means that I can't guarantee I can stick to them.  
However, if I explicitly make promises, that will be that I very much  
intend to stick to them.


As you can see, I am walking on eggs (as we say in French). It is so  
easy to embarrass yourself when walking on eggs ;-).


Marielle

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Re: Richmond's Yahoo-Groups and related guff.

[Marielle Lange]

I was, at that time, exploring a number of other
possibilities, and was promised all sorts of 'super'
things, all of which either failed to manifest
themselves, or turned out to be red-herrings.


Richmond,

Can you make me a service? Keep away from false accusations. I am not  
in the habit of making promises I have no intention to honor. When I  
make promises, I am stupid enough to honor my part of the deal  
however badly the other person decides to cheat me or screw me up. If  
I make a promise that depends on a third party keeping his part of  
the deal, I am stupid enough to honor my promises even if that third  
party let me down. I am not aware I made you promises I didn't honor.  
If it is the case, please, let me know what they are, I will do my  
best to correct this.


I react to this not in the context of Richmond, but in the context of  
my recent email on the education list.


A lot of work is being done. Mostly off-list. The approach I take is  
to be ready to waste my own time on a bet but to avoid to involve  
other users or encourage them to participate when I fear that there  
will be a high chance to get them waste their time.


The reason you don't hear of it is for the reason Richmond mention.  
There is no point getting persons to expect too much if this is not  
to be followed by anything concrete.


There is something very concrete in the coming. This has been delayed  
by a week because I have spent far too much time last week on a wrong  
bet and at the same time, I had some health issues I needed to take  
care of. It should be announced hopefully by the end of this week.


Marielle

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Re: Revolution yahoo groups

[Marielle Lange]

As we are at it:

revInterop
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revInterop/?yguid=226621683

Revolution_ipc (Inter-Program Communication in Runtime Revolution)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revolution_ipc/?yguid=153807841

revDocs
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/?yguid=254464095

freeGui
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freeGUI/?yguid=153807841

cxTalk
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cxtalk/?yguid=254464095

RevolutionFR (French speaking group)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/revolutionfr/?yguid=254464095

Some of these groups are not much active anymore. However new users  
may be interested to browse the archives.


Best regards,
Marielle

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Re: Richmond's Yahoo-Groups and related guff.

[Marielle Lange]

due to a series of unfortunate incidents outwith my control


I gave you a chance, three times. Two or three years ago, you were  
banned from the list. Everybody applauded. I was the one to intercede  
for you off list and get you back in. You were flooding the list with  
rants on the fact that Revolution should be free. I paid you a  
license to stop you from doing that. I hosted your files for free on  
my webserver.


Things happened that were perfectly under you control. I would be  
more than happy to offer you another chance. But you have to be aware  
that you are the one with complete control on how well we get along.  
If you have the deliberate choice to write things that have a high  
chance to rub me the wrong way, well, accept that I don't feel like  
hugging you.


Look, I have nothing against you. I read your master thesis. I liked  
it. Plenty of good stuff in it. I commented positively on it. I gave  
visibility to your work both on my wiki and in the stack gallery. You  
have a neat creative talent. You can do good stuff. But for some  
reason, you tend to prefer to screw nice opportunities given to you.  
I regret that. I regret it because I believe you have a lot to give  
to any community (and I already expressed that to you).


You have to work on trying to avoid to trigger the negative and try  
to cause the positive. Nobody can help you do this. You have to take  
the decision to do that yourself.


Marielle

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Re: blend level question

[Marielle Lange]

Just wondering... any chance this could be done programmatically by  
adding a gray rectangle behind the picture and playing with the ink  
values? If you put two rectangles in a group, a bright colored one, a  
gray shaded one. You set the blend level of the group to 50.Then you  
take one of two rectangles and you play with the ink values.  
blendHardLight seems to give some results in that direction.


A *very cheap* alternative is rather than blend the stack, is add a  
black rectangle right behind the image (which is then moved onto the  
top layer) and change the blend of that rectangle. You won't get  
exactly the same effect of a pure blend in the sense that you won't  
see what is behind your interface in a semi transparent rendering.  
However, this solution may be closer to what you want to achieve  
(nice semitransparent effects like you find in drops).



But I see two ways:
1. Work your image in PhotoShop to increase hue and saturation and  
decrease luminosity (modifying HSL values):
Grope your way along with these settings and you will be able to  
make your image appear almost 'normal' :-)




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Re: Special Valentine's Offer for Valentina - Beat the Price Increase!

[Marielle Lange]

SPECIAL: We are including a free deployment of Valentina Embedded  
Server
Unlimited that you can keep for yourself, or ship to a customer - a  
$400

value and a "sweet" for Valentine's Day!


A Valentine's special. How touching. Let me guess, bundled with love?

Marielle
---
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Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Richmond's Yahoo-Groups and related guff.

[Marielle Lange]

At least one person has stated that they find it a
"bit of a bother" to subscribe to Yahoo Groups to
download my RR files.


Note that you could use services like. This let  you publish a link  
to a file. The file is held temporarily on a server and up to 100  
users can go and download it.



Marielle

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Re: Richmond's Yahoo-Groups and related guff.

[Marielle Lange]

a server that would store them, and not suddenly change
or vanish without warning.


Similar warning as Mark Wieder gave, here.  Well, I was the one  
hosting these files. Obviously, my different websites and presence on  
forums suggest that I am keen to help members of the community.


To avoid to polute the list, I am posting more details  on the RR  
graphix list. Well, that may take up to an hour as I am waiting for  
an unbounce email from yahoo... the university email I used for the  
RR graphix was canceled almost two years ago. Yep, two years, and  
Richmond hasn't forgiven me yet for the fact that my providers  
blocked my account without any justification and forced me into an  
emergency change. Emails were sent to Richmond to warn him but all of  
them bounced back.


If you are after a break and you want to use this pretense to write a  
few flaming emails, please do so on the RR graphics list. I am with  
Richard. Lest keep this list controversy free.


Marielle

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Re: RUNREV down?

[Marielle Lange]

We had snow indeed in Edinburgh... this started yesterday evening.  
Nice white mantle this morning but it's all gone now :-D


Marielle

On 8 Feb 2007, at 13:12, Klaus Major wrote:


Hi friends,

earthquake or snowstrom in the highlands?

Cannot access the RUNREV website or QAzilla for
the last couple of hours... Any hints?


Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de

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Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
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Re: game-based learning

[Marielle Lange]

Joe,

Thanks very much for sharing this. I am very keen to have your  
feedback on some work I have done which uh, may drastically cut down  
your development time ;-). I am just waiting to receive the green  
light share information on this. I will get back to you before the  
end of next week.


Do you have any more information on this project or related ones?

Marielle



On 2 Feb 2007, at 18:57, Joe Lewis Wilkins wrote:


Richard,

I'm a little reluctant to expose this thinking to public scrutiny  
at this time, but almost ten years ago I was prepared to launch a  
major endeavor that was combination electronic book and game;  
however, I got distracted - big time, and never really got back to  
it. One of the reasons was that I really didn't have the  
programming capabilities to do it without major funding from some  
source and I was unwilling to sell the idea to anyone else who  
might eventually distort my goals. Please disregard all the  
references to financing, and a few others  with respect to  
anticipated goals and a phone number that is no longer is service.  
The basic tenants are still sound and desirable. Perhaps, with  
Revolution's cross platform capabilities and multimedia  
aspirations, I may eventually be able to start work in ernest on  
the project.


visit:  

Some will call it a pipe dream; others may go even farther with  
"who in the hell does he think he is?" You can make your own decision.


TIA,

Joe Wilkins



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Re: A hard challenge anyone?

[Marielle Lange]

The hard bit is to be able to match the function call - and extract  
whatever
is between the brackets - then I can recurse the bit between the  
brackets if

it in turn contains a (user defined) function call.


My guess is that this is something that a regexp could deal with or  
do I
have to go back to the techique of counting opening and closing  
brackets?


Hi David,

To solve a problem of this type, what matters is to be able to  
unambiguously know the status of the "unit" your regular expression  
or whatever has identified. If you go from left to right,  you can't  
because you never know if a "(" parenthesis will be followed by more  
"(" or not.


The minimal unit, that is the unit that you know not to contain any  
further function itself is the ([^)]*) group, which corresponds to  
function(...) where what is enclosed within the parentheses is not  
allowed to contain any parenthesis.


What you may want to try, therefore, is to recurse with a regular  
expression, that looks somehow like this (I let you get the correct  
one):


[^\b()]*(   [^)]*   )

(I put tabs for increased legibility; \b means any character that is  
a word boundary... check the doc to be sure this correspond to what  
you want).


The alternative is to look for a ")" character... then look from  
right to left for the first "(" character. You unambiguously know  
this forms a minimal unit. Another alternative, if you insist to go  
from left to right is to look for a pattern of this type "(...)[^)].  
Again, you know you have unambiguously come across a minimal unit  
that doesn't enclose any further unit.


You don't try to find out what functions are enclosed within the big  
ones. You rather try to identify the parent of each function. Once  
you have a table with


nodeparent
bfctafct
cfctbfct

you can sort it and read it any way you want.

You may want to run a google search on 'linked list data structure'  
for some additional insights 




Marielle


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Re: user groups : educators

[Marielle Lange]

On cross posting, receive the usual apologizes.

I copied the last email on the use-list because the education list  
has been largely inactive over the last year. I will now stick to the  
education list for education discussion. If you are interested in  
following this up, you can subscribe to the revolution-education list  
at:




I will also duplicate the information on the forums and education  
list, at least in the form of link pointing from one to another  
(though I do prefer to publish on the forums where I can reedit my  
post and correct the various spelling mistakes I leave in my text...  
I am a non-native speaker of English).


Marielle

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Re: user groups : educators

[Marielle Lange]

Nice to hear there is good interest there. Came across some new names  
as well, which is always nice. I have started encoding the names and  
email addresses of the ones who were interested in this.


I guess something I should tell as I don't like to have any hidden  
agenda. I signed a document which says that I accept to become a  
Revolution Community Partner. There is information about this on the  
forums:



The original post, by Lynn Fredricks, on July 24 stated that:

If you want to set up a Revolution User’s Group or a special  
interest group in your local computer group, Runtime Revolution  
wants to hear from you about becoming a Revolution Community Partner.


Revolution Community Partners are local liaisons who are interested  
in influencing and expanding the use of Runtime Revolution and  
willing to present Revolution at their local user groups or even  
participate in local conferences, conventions and industry shows!


Runtime is looking for Community Partners who have good  
presentation skills, know their Revolution and are reliable.


And what do you get out of it? How about:

1. Coolness Factor. In our references lists (consultants and third  
party vendors), Community Partners who are listed will get a  
special designation. We are establishing the frequency but this  
will mean a special designation for X amount of time after  
participating in an event.


2. Exposure. Since we are doing this for both local events and also  
trade shows, its an opportunity to meet and greet some Runtime  
partners whom are very influential in the software industry.


3. $$$. We have a compensation model based on sales that result  
from your efforts. You will get assigned a special code with each  
event, then receive compensation based on sales that result from  
your efforts.


If you are interested in becoming a Revolution Community Partner,  
please contact me directly to work out participation.


You can ask questions here but compensation in general is handled  
directly with Runtime.


The exact form of my involvement is being discussed. Nothing official  
or formal as for now.


I can just say that there is a big stand in a local bookstore.  
"Change the world". Plenty of books like "Meaning Inc.: The Rise of  
the 21st Century Company" , Happiness 9 to 5, etc. etc.


Well, going for a meaningful life, at home and at work, seems to be  
the trend of the moment ;-).


What follows is not really part of these activities (as anyway there  
is nothing official yet anyway), more a personal initiative.


For any new member, you may be interested in checking out this  
discussion we had some discussion between users on revolution's  
possible contribution to education. This was in May-July 2005, right  
after they created the revolution-education list. This discussion can  
be found in the revolution-education list archive





It can also be found on this wiki, with the posts reorganized by  
theme/argument being made.



I wouldn't invite everybody to start a big discussion right now on  
this list. But what I am interested is thoughts about how to organize  
ourselves to avoid the problem we faced 1-2 years ago where  
discussion and enthusiasm was not transformed into concrete results.


Then, possibly not discuss this at full length before we have set up  
some efficient enough way to organize ourselves, however, let's start  
thinking about this. To minimize a possible dissipation of energy, I  
would suggest to keep a notepad at hand with you over the week or two  
to come and jot down some ideas and reflections.


Let's keep the "what Revolution Ltd (the company) should do for us  
educators" out of the picture for now. This has to come into the  
picture, of course. However if from the start we take the attitude  
that we just expect to sit there and wait for somebody else to enable  
everything, well, we will simply get the same results as 1-2 years ago.


Let's rather think of what we, as education users, want to do/achieve  
and what we believe to be our personal/social responsibility in  
helping this to happen. How can we organize ourselves and collaborate  
so to maximise any return on the time we may be able to put in to  
help for each one of us?


The truth is that we always tend to think that our life will be  
easier if *others* were to change the way they treated us. In any  
situation like that, two persons are in control of what happens next.  
That other person and yourself. As users, each one of us has some  
degree of control and power on the

Re: game-based learning

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for your comments and the tip on Brenda Laurel, didn't know  
that one. Funny, I found mention of her on  a website "game girl  
advance" <http://www.gamegirladvance.com/>. I like the pun!


Other games that are said to be highly successful with girls are:  
Alexandra Ledermann 6 : L'école des Champions www.gamekult.com/tout/jeux/fiches/J73976.html> (French only) and  
Kitchen Conundrum by Open University <http://www.greencathedral.com/ 
ougame/>


Note that in the UK, there is now a new initiative, computer club for  
girls <http://www.cc4g.net/>. Girls and computing/gaming is an  
interesting emerging market ;-).


Marielle

On 2 Feb 2007, at 18:32, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Great stuff, Marielle.  I was especially interested in the comments  
about girl gaming.


I saw Brenda Laurel give the closing keynote at CHI-98, where she  
talked about her experience doing usability research to found her  
company Purple Moon (since killed by the Mattel juggernaut).


Reinforcing the observations you noted, one of the most interesting  
things she noted about girl gamers is their attraction to  
complexity. According to Laurel's research spanning a 10-year  
period, the reason girls don't play a lot of boy-oriented games is  
not because they're too difficult, but just the opposite, that the  
game play is often too simplistic.


With Purple Moon, Laurel tried to create games that appealed to  
girls' appreciation for complex relationships.  Much of the game  
play involved ethical questions in social simulation scenarios  
(e.g., do I go to the birthday party for the unpopular girl or  
accept the invitation for the party by the most popular girl for  
the same day?), and the complexity of the issues involved certainly  
carried greater variance in play than "shoot the zombie".


One of the key aspects Laurel touched on was the self-fulfilling  
prophesy of game designers:  having delivered games aimed at boys,  
game designers look to low sales among girls as a false  
reinforcement of the notion that "girls aren't into gaming".


That was one of the things I loved most about Myst when it  
premiered.  I don't play a lot of games, but Myst appealed to a  
much broader market than games had previously addressed.  It was in  
many respects the first truly literate game, and its focus on  
environmental immersion and long, complex puzzles was a radically  
meditative departure from the shoot-em-up twitchers that continue  
to dominate the market.


A thousand Myst-like games have been created since (including the  
great Alida <http://www.runrev.com/spotlight_on/alida1.php>), and  
while they've been fun I keep wondering if there's an entirely new  
type of game waiting to be created, something as different from  
everything else we've seen as Myst was for its time.


Somewhere out there is a game waiting to be created, something that  
will open up the world of entertainment software to a whole new  
audience that isn't currently into games.


Or as I once put it at a game developer meeting:  Where is the  
"Catcher  in the Rye" of games, the thing that will appeal to  
people who like rich, provocative entertainment but aren't  
attracted to current game play models?


Maybe it'll be made by one of the readers of this list

--
 Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: game-based learning

[Marielle Lange]

Of course, *I* am always interested ;-)


I attended a seminar today on the theme of serious gaming.
 -- this article is in  
French only.


Presenters were Olivier Rampnoux, Julien Alvarez, Jean-Pierre Jessel.  
All members of the European Center of children products.


Very nice talk. Covered
1) Why using video games
2) Classification
3) What kind of objectives
4) Girl Gaming

Some information that came across.

1) Why be interested in games?
- Commercial domain. Market study show that nowadays kids spend more  
time in front of a console or computer connected to the web than in  
front of a television. Apparently they spend 3 hours in front of a  
screen. That's good news for advertising as this means that they have  
a chance to target a large public at a lower price (TV advertising is  
really pricey) and with less resistance (TV advertising is not that  
successful). The concept to check out there is the one of advergaming  
, 


- Education domain. Studies show that students need more  
interactivity. The good old system whereby they sit and listen to a  
lecturer doesn't work well with them anymore. They get bored and they  
don't take much information in. Then the 1 hour format doesn't work  
well either are their attention span tends to be shorter. In  
contrast, studies show that positive emotions, like the ones you get  
when playing help with more efficient memory encoding. Hence the  
notion of Education Arcade, introduced by the MIT. www.educationarcade.org/>


2,3) Classification. They have done some *very* nice work there. They  
created a database to store information about up to 1000 games. They  
then analysed them to try to understand the different dimensions that  
characterise a game. What they mentioned during the talk was their  
analysis of objectives and goals within the game. They came up with  
10 major rules, where rules are defined by what you have to do to be  
allowed to move to the next level. These rules are Answer | Manage |  
Have luck | shoot | create | block (maintain) | destroy (collect)  |  
position | avoid | move | time | score. Then using these low level  
rules, they define bigger bricks of metarules. A game that would mix  
move and avoid as objects would make up a DRIVER game. A game that  
would mix shoot and destroy would make a KILLER game, one that would  
mix manage and create would make a GOD game. Of course, games can  
count more than one brick. If you take the good old invader, then you  
have both the driver and killer component included.


4) Girl Gaming. The big problem, you see is that games then to be  
written by boys and be most successful with boys. All good when you  
try to sell to a leisure market. Problem is when you try to do  
advergaming, failing to engage 50% of your customers is not so good.  
Then in education, having a product that works only with 50% of the  
class is not great.


There was a bit of discussion on this topic. Apparently, girls and  
boys don't use a game in the same way. I go for cliche description  
now. Girls tend to do as told and carefully, and with a lot of  
attention, engage in the game. They read every single box of text  
that appear and they have at heart to do well. They play once. They  
get a quite high score. Boys just want to have fun. They rush  
through. Then they discover that they have a score lower than their  
neighbour, so they get back to the game and try to increase their score.


Girls seem to prefer to play games where they have to think about  
games. They want to be involved with the game. They also expect to  
get something out of the game, to be taught something, to acquire  
some knowledge. They expect content. Boys are more after some direct  
and simple stimulation. That's more about having fun and then get a  
score that let you know how well you did.


Another reason of the lack of success of traditional games with girls  
is the complex devices and set of key combinations being used. Games  
where controls are a lot simpler (like the last wii console) and  
where dexterity is not that important seem to have a better success  
with girls. Some also say to prefer black and white graphics over  
these new 3D all fancy graphics.


I will be meeting various persons involved in game-based learning or  
game-making software next week. If you want to be kept within the  
information loop, let me know.


Marielle

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chat application in a classroom context

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Ryno,

>A chat application PLUS a window in which, to start with, the various
> members of the chat can draw in black line and type in text, in
> turn or simultaneously

In case this is any helpful, check out:
<http://bjoernke.com/chatrev/>
"ChatRev is a chat client entirely written in Runtime Revolution. It  
consist of a Client and a Server."


Marielle

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Re: user groups : educators

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Roger,

Yes, I had that in mind as well, some revolution bar in Second life.  
Indeed many companies organize training or support within the second  
life environment.


What is your character name in second life? Mine is Sydney Scapin
(but I don't connect that often... I find it a bit slow)

Marielle

Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education

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Re: user groups : educators

[Marielle Lange]

I get all tense and impatient during chat, waiting for people to
type, and wishing I hadn't joined the chat. One can't really do
anything else during a chat session.

A whiteboard or video image during chat adds a lot of value to a chat
session. Otherwise, I don't see the point.


Good to see you are optimistic and expect to have a lot of persons to  
join ;-). I kind of agree. Once there are more than 3 persons text  
chats can be cumbersome. Voice chats are faster. Still, voice chats  
with more than 5 are a bit unpractical.


The chore idea, however, is to have a regular meeting. That is an  
arranged time where we expect to meet others and discuss. The fact  
there is a meeting planned often force to think of content for that  
meeting. Which generates more discussion than if persons are free to  
post whenever they want.


What you describe, video image... a teacher friend of mine told me  
about such a software (PC only unfortunately). I forgot the  
details... I will have to get back to her.


Let's start with an easy question. Let's forget about technology for  
now.


Would teachers/educators/academics on this list be interested in  
regular meetings? Is there some need to have subgroups like primary/ 
secondary/higher education. Are there persons interested in special  
areas like special needs, ICT & learning to program, science, history/ 
geography, etc?


What about organizing at least a first meeting (chat or any other  
means) where educators can introduce themselves to one another so we  
know names and interests?


What are the views of other users on this?

Marielle

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Bite-size Applications for Education

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Re: whiteboards

[Marielle Lange]

Agreed, Stephen.

At the show, I couldn't even find any information about mac  
compatibility. That's very weird. Many schools have invested in macs  
as they have the reputation to encourage more creative activities.  
But all whiteboard applications were run on PCs. As if they expect  
the teacher to be fluent with both platforms.


That's quite interesting. All stands with plenty of pupils around or  
taking parts in various activities like creating podcasts on the  
show, or on the stand with the two kids I spoke with, they were all  
filled with Macs.


Then all these whiteboard applications where that's about a student  
listening and sometimes pressing on the key of a multibutton keypad,  
they were running on PCs.


Sure, these whiteboard applications are a lot more interactive than  
before. Sure, they allow students to better visualise some problems  
(there was a nice mathematical problem of transporting 50 pupils from  
one point to another in a tractor who could only hold 4 at a time,  
where you could put pupils in the tractor, get the tractor moving,  
drop down the pupils at the end and start again).


But it is possible to do *a lot* better than this. The idea of chat  
is good. Pity the absence of way to easily input text is a bit of a  
hurdle. But there are other teaching situations that you can imagine  
where students would collaboratively solve a problem, by manipulating  
objects on the screen. Revolution would be such a nice software to  
develop such applications.


Then there is something else that should be done with revolution. But  
this thing, I was told that if I was to do it, I would become  
millionaire. Who wants to share a million? What is your guess?


Marielle





One thing that ticks me off about software merchants that often in
their ignorance or arrogance, they NEVER mention WHAT PLATFORM their
software will run on, as if Windoze was the only game in town. Then
if one is possibly interested in the utility or app, one has to
laboriously plow through the advertising, web sites and pdfs to find
out.

It turns out that both of these links lead to products that have some
level of mac compatibility, but it took a bit of time to find out. At
Promethean, the only clue was an icon for Mac OS 9 (smiling mac)
which would indicate system 9. No MAC OS X logo was seen. For both
there was absolutely no Macintosh version information. You see what I
mean?

For such companies that seem to do this, I tend to want to go  
somewhere else.





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user groups : educators

[Marielle Lange]

Hiya,

Any educator out there who would be interested in a weekly, biweekly  
or monthly chat session over skype or AIM? This would be about  
exchanging information on current projects, funding opportunities,  
interesting articles or news, eventual organisation of the  
development of a shared set of resources, etc.


Marielle


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game based learning

[Marielle Lange]

Any Educator or user on the list interested in game-based learning?

I would be interested in having them beta test and give feedback on  
an application. I would also be interested in creating some common  
space with relevant information.


I already put a lot of links at <http://revolution.widged.com/wiki/ 
tiki-index.php?page=EtivitiesGames>. But I would be interested in  
creating better organized pages with text and guidelines.


Marielle

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whiteboards

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Ryno,

>A chat application PLUS a window in which, to start with, the various
> members of the chat can draw in black line and type in text, in
> turn or simultaneously

For this, you would probably better go for a standard lab situation.  
Whiteboards are really not practical for writing on them. You can pop  
a keyboard view on the screen, but this means typing a word letter by  
letter. Quite cumbersome.
If all kids are in the classroom, they you would get more  
interactivity by podcasting them and organizing mini-interviews.


They do this very nicely in this school :
<http://www.castlemanor.suffolk.sch.uk/stars/latest.php>

Two of the pupils were on the stand "Tomorrow's Learners Today". I  
discussed with them for an hour. What they do in this school is  
apparently very cool.


Given what you describe, you may want to check out these products:
<http://www.facetwoface.co.uk/> and <http://www.boxnewmedia.co.uk/ 
face2face/face2face_fact_sheet.pdf>
<http://rafi.ki/> -- Rafi.ki is a funky new online learning community  
with a difference:

it's just for secondary schools*, it's safe and it's a lot of fun!
<http://www.j2e.com/> -- create share learn
<http://www.pebblelearning.co.uk/> -- peeblepad. portfolio for life
<http://www.horizonwimba.com/> -- Horizon Wimba develops web-based  
collaboration software designed for online education, language  
learning and live interactive communications.


Then if you are into engaging teaching, you may want to also check  
out this.

<http://www.filmstreet.co.uk/default.aspa?flash=tt> Film street
<http://www.magicstudio.co.uk/> -- Access hundreds of digital  
resources and create personalised, interactive learning activities  
without the need for specialist ICT skills.

<http://www.createascape.org.uk/>



Marielle


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Re: Whiteboard

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Ryno,


Has anybody here developed a whiteboard application


I have, for a client. And I went to BETT as well. I came back with  
loads of demo CD, information, and contacts of distributors of  
whiteboard software interested in having freelance developers  
contributing software for them.


In fact, a whiteboard application is very simply put a normal  
application. The only difference is that mouse movements don't work.  
Well, you use a pen and only mousedown and mouseup movements get  
detected. You can't detect the movement when the pen is, well, not in  
contact with the whiteboard. You also have to have zones of detection  
that are larger than in normal applications (I can give you the  
precise information, but something that corresponds to about 5cm on  
the whiteboard).


For the rest, you don't really have to take care of the annotation,  
draw shaping, etc. This is taken care of by the software sold with  
the whiteboard. What this software does is make a toolbar available  
to the end user, that appears comes on top of the application you write.


Two popular products in the UK are :
Promethean <http://www.prometheanworld.com/uk/>
Smart Board <http://smarttech.com/>

What I was told at BETT is that in the UK, 50% of the schools now  
have whiteboards. 25% in each single class. 25% in some classes.  
Often, they mix the two products above. To "project" on the  
whiteboard, teachers use a laptop (PC) connected in permanence to the  
web. Web connectivity in schools is now said to be highly reliable in  
schools.


Do list members know about the situation in other countries?

Marielle

Has anybody here developed a whiteboard application? Is anybody  
keen to

do so? Or willing to guide me through the process? I can get
schoolchildren involved.

What I am thinking of is something like this:

A chat application PLUS a window in which, to start with, the various
members of the chat can draw in black line and type in text, in  
turn or

simultaneously.

(If simultaneously a split-screen window would be an option, "click
here to save this board").

It would be wonderful for collaborative work, such as building a
whiteboard application: )

Ryno.


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Re: Rev_rant

[Marielle Lange]

On 8 Nov 2006, at 02:35, Kay C Lan wrote:


[...] as a recipient of the UserList Medal of Dishonour;-)


On 7 Nov 2006, at 18:27, Heather Nagey wrote:
The rules of participation in this list include courtesy and  
tolerance of each other. It is not a venue to make personal attacks  
of any kind, and any inadvertent offence that may be caused should  
be promptly and sincerely atoned for.


Please, do the right thing.

Marielle

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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Marielle Lange]

I certainly do not intone Luis to be "the most decadent newbie,"  
only perhaps an ill-informed one.


Exact, Chipp, your answer didn't include any attack against Luis...  
and I thank you for that.


But the guy had apologized (let's not discuss whether this was a  
convincing one or not)... and still he continued to be told off,  
being accused of more than his words had implied.



Your attitude is out of order.


I wouldn't call Luis a saint It is not just his attitude that has  
been out of order.


Marielle

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Re: Open Letter to Rev: Quality Is Job #1

[Marielle Lange]

Luis wrote in response to Jacque:
And, when elaborating a point for which you have no control is an  
especially telling consequence of an inability to be forthcoming  
with the facts. Just a thought.

The above is a weak and wordy way of calling Jacque a liar.


Can you please stop this!?

My own understanding is that you put in Luis' mouth words he never had.

Take the facts: I had *exactly* the same problems as Luis. I sent 3  
emails to support, spaced by a week, I only got an answer only on the  
third email.


Take his perspective. He is a new guy, he tries to send emails to  
support, they don't get answered what is he supposed to think?


Take mine. My experience of support is that I generally get a prompt  
and helpful reply. When I recently failed to get a reply, I was  
surprised. But then, the next day, when I tried to connect to their  
forums, I saw that the website was temporarily down. This got me  
conclude that they are doing some major changes to their  
infrastructures. I toke it for a rather positive sign. I waited for a  
week or so ... and sent another email.


There is no question that Jacque is a very earnest and dedicated  
person and that she promptly  replies to each email she receives,  
trying to offer as much support as she can. However, as high as  
Jacque's or Heather dedications unquestionably are ... this doen't  
make Luis' comment in any way invalid. Luis didn't comment on  
Jacque's dedication. He commented on the fact that if some emails  
never got processed (got lost is some alternative cue), then this  
would make support rather inefficient.


But I don't see any benefit to push any discussion of this any  
further...


At the period I had problems, another user reported a similar  
experience on the forum, so that was most probably some very  
temporary problem due to the change over to the new system... or  
problems caused by the fact that I replied to an old email back from  
support with a new request (rather than always make sure we use a  
brand new subject line).


Conclusion:
Don't reply to an old ticket if you want to be sure that your request  
is treated promptly


That's all. No need to treat Luis to be the most decadent newbie we  
have every seen on this list just because he made that error and got  
very frustrated as a result.


Marielle

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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Marielle Lange]

The forum frontend (http://forums.runrev.com/) is available for any  
passerby to see, and it is a very quiet place... Hence the 'sadest  
Forum I've seen' comment.


Many have used these forums to make the same comments :-).

I'm evaluating several development options, some of which track  
differently because the nature of some projects doesn't require  
full blown coding which is easily covered by other apps. Other  
projects do have that requirement, and I'm looking at least cost  
(both in software and development time) and then plough through  
with whatever options I have chosen.


Then your "fishing" for information/causing reaction behaviour makes  
sense. The different areas you poked are indeed important ones to  
consider when evaluating a technology to use in future projects (to  
depend on for possibly years to come).


As you are probably well aware of, the tricky question to answer with  
revolution is to guess where the product would be in 3-5 years time.  
Sure it is relatively easy to learn and rapid to program... but it  
also tend to isolate you, getting you loose your flexibility. Reduced  
costs now and possibly huge cost if you need to change your approach  
later on. Similarly, without a good components approach, you could  
get stuff out rapidly... but the cost of getting something out will  
remain about the same over the years. With a components approach, you  
pay a higher cost early on... but the cost progressively decreases.


There will come a point, if that environment has not evolved into  
what I reckon it should (call this bug fixes, features, take your  
pick) I will drop it. This is my personal opinion, no better or  
worse than anyone else's.


Six months ago, I expressed my concerns...

The old direction (heads, top guys) replied to these concerns in a  
way that got me to think that revolution will stay for the next 5  
years at about at the same place it has been for the last 10 years  
(including the various precursors) and despite having had a huge head  
start being taken over by other technologies.


The new direction avoided promises and asked me to wait. Not used  
revolution for 6 months Learned other technologies, other  
frameworks. I am now in the process of evaluating it again.


Nothing wrong with the questions you try to answer The problem is  
that I cannot answer your questions today... I have some elements but  
that I sworn to keep private. There are other answers I simply don't  
have. That's the same for most persons on this list.


If you have some serious business project in mind and a few features  
are essential to your projects, why not contact revolution's  
management directly and ask them whether there is any chance to have  
these features implemented within 1-5 years?


Marielle


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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Marielle Lange]

And that Forum... That's got to be the sadest Forum I've ever seen.  
Any newbie hitting that would surely be put off.

[...]

Didn't see that one. And I can't, not a member of the forum...


Uh? What is your first comment based on if you never had a chance to  
see these forums?


Based on what you said over the last days, I wonder if you would not  
find processing better suiting your needs than revolution processing.org/>


1. Open source
2. You code one and can generate an application or run within a browser
3. Now, you can also, with the same code, generate a version that  
runs on mobile devices 
4. You have various libraries that let you manipulate 3D objects  
(openGL) - 


Marielle




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Re: How Else to Interact with Browser (was Re:RevolutionWebBrowserPlugin)

[Marielle Lange]

Hi Luis,

No really, if it needed this level of forum debate, they had not  
been listening before.


We had that discussion 6 months ago, making many of the points you  
make in this email. Discussing them at full length. Over the last 6  
months, various changes have taken place, with among other thing, a  
wiki. .


For now, it looks like they use it as another webpage, not as a space  
where community members can contribute. Though they mention  
"[developers] can contribute to the Revolution wiki to share  
information, tutorials, tips and projects, and log in to the forum  
for friendly help and advice."... I couldn't figure out what I needed  
to do to contribute. No register button, no "how to join" information.



we can help the revolution experience and attract new users to the  
revolution, then, I am sure RunRev will make more money and be  
able to afford more people and then have more resources to add the  
features you want and fix bugs.


Then I want to be paid for Marketing. :)


Believe it or not but they seem interested in doing just that:

Become a Revolution Community Partner

$$$. We have a compensation model based on sales that result from  
your efforts. You will get assigned a special code with each event,  
then receive compensation based on sales that result from your efforts.


Marielle

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Re: [OT] PHP speed question

[Marielle Lange]

I'm not trying to change this list into a PHP forum, but I have a
question regarding speed optimization in PHP, especially about data  
accumulation
into strings... I need to accumulate a large number of pixel values  
into a string before


Excuses excuses... that's just because you know that here you will  
get a rapid answer ;-). We should avoid this, however.


First thing, try by changing to one of these:

(1) "$myValue1 $myValue1 $myValue1\t" ;
(2) $myValue1 . ' ' . $myValue1 . ' ' . $myValue1 . "\t" ; 
(and $s0 = '';)


(2) should a priori be the fasted (except that \t has to be in  
quotes). Content in "" is interpreted (if you put a variable , then  
it is replaced by its value). Content in '' is not.


Otherwise, if you want to explore arrays:
array_push --  Push one or more elements onto the end of array
<http://uk.php.net/function.array-push>
implode -- Join array elements with a string
<http://uk.php.net/manual/en/function.implode.php>

For the rest:
PHP Optimization Tricks
<http://ilia.ws/archives/12-PHP-Optimization-Tricks.html>


 $s0 = "" ;
 $s = "" ;

 for($y = 0; $y < $h; $y++) {

$s0 = '' ;

for($x = 0; $x < $w; $x++) {

$s0 .= $myValue1 . " " . $myValue1 . " " . $myValue1 . "\t" ;

}

  $s .= $s0 . "\n" ;
 }


Thanks,
JB

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Marielle Lange (PhD),  http://widged.com
Bite-size Applications for Education





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Re: Are there any arrow buttons?

[Marielle Lange]

I just copy-paste the same button containing the same
script and the same icon reference to wherever I want
it to appear.


A word of caution here.

Though the use backgroundbehavior is a much safer option, the  
technique given here works perfectly fine for the use being described  
here, to copy and paste *buttons* on other cards.


Given what the  good old metacard arrows look like, I suspect that  
one day or another you will want to replace them with better looking  
options. Note however that if you use this technique for buttons that  
are in fact images that you have designed with photoshop (or  
whatever)...  you may be up to very bad surprises. When I wrote my  
first application, I got everything fine on my own computer... then  
when I shared it with others I rapidly got to learn that they  
couldn't get to see the nice looking buttons I had lovingly designed.  
In fact not that rapidly. It was only a few weeks later than I got a  
kind user let me know that he couldn't see any button on the screen  
(the other users simply gave up there was no way for them to know  
they couldn't see buttons as they were none on the screen).


To copy and paste *images* is dangerous a good strategy with  
image is the one that Eric posted on this list recently. Put all  
images in a "pix" (for picture) card or substack. Create a  
transparent button. Set the icon id of the button to the id of the  
image. Then you can safely cut and paste images wherever you want.


Best,
Marielle


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Re: Activating a Function in a Different Stack

[Marielle Lange]

Note that the post has now been archived on the code website:

... with code coloring.

Enjoy,
Marielle

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Re: Activating a Function in a Different Stack

[Marielle Lange]

Never mind.  It is in parameters where that does not work.


You are right. This works:

  on mouseup
put "1" into aTest[1]
put "2" into aTest[2]
get return_array(aTest)
put the result into aResult
combine aResult using cr
answer aResult
  end mouseup

  function return_array pArray
return pArray
  end return_array


But this doesn't (didn't really expect so)

Stack A
-
  on mouseup
put "1" into aTest[1]
put "2" into aTest[2]
get return_array(aTest)
send doSomething to button 1 of stack "stackB"
  end mouseup


Stack B
-
  on doSomething
put the result into aResult
combine aResult using cr
answer "--" & aResult
  end doSomething

 



What is exactly the scope of this "the result"?
According to the doc: "The result function is set to empty when the  
current handler finishes executing."

This doesn't work either:

on mouseup
  put "1" into aTest[1]
  put "2" into aTest[2]
  get return_array(aTest)
  test_result
end mouseup
...
on test_result
  put the result into aResult
  combine aResult using cr
  answer "--" & aResult
end test_result

 



And about passing arrays as parameters, it looks like a challenge  
indeed.


This works:

Stack A
--
  put "one" into aTest
  send "doSomething aTest" to button 1 of stack "stackB"

This doesn't
Stack A
-
  put "1" into aTest[1]
  put "2" into aTest[2]
  send "doSomething aTest" to button 1 of stack "stackB"

 



Unsurprisingly, this doesn't work:
  set the array_data of button 1 of stack "stackB" to aTest

 



But this works:

Stack A
-
on mouseup
  put "1" into aTest[1]
  put "2" into aTest[2]
  set the customproperties of button 1 of stack "stackB" to aTest
  send "doSomething" to button 1 of stack "stackB"
end mouseup

Stack B
-
on doSomething
  put the customproperties of me into tArray
  .
end doSomething

Tadam ...
1
2

But I would stay away from this option... too dangerous to use!

 



Of interest... this works as well

Stack A
-
on mouseup
  put "1" into aTest[1]
  put "2" into aTest[2]
  set the customproperties["test"] of button 1 of stack "stackB" to  
aTest

  send "doSomething" to button 1 of stack "stackB"
end mouseup

Stack B
-
on doSomething
  put the customproperties["test"] of me into tArray
  ...
end doSomething


Multidimensional arrays can be used:
(simply because the array indexes are converted into a string)
  put "1" into aTest[1,2,3]
  put "2" into aTest[2,2,3]
 ...
  combine aResult using cr and tab

Thanks for the brainstorming and the ideas!
Marielle

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