Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 26 oct. 2010 à 20:13, Richmond a écrit :

> On 10/26/2010 06:56 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:
>> Here here!
>> 
>> Bob
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:46 AM, Kay C Lan wrote:
>> 
>>> Ah, been extremely busy of late and have a brief moment to visit the List to
>>> discover nothing has changed, the old OS wars continues lightly disguised as
>>> Steve is Satan discussion.
>> 
> 
> Let's try to imagine something a bit more intelligent than a bipolar Christian
> "all-or-nothing" situation with Heaven and Hell; for starters, how about a
> multiplicity of hells with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates as shameless devils, and,
> dare I say it, Mark Shuttleworth as a sort of sneaky, covered devil; probably
> we could cast "ole Squeaky" (err . . .Richard Stallman) as that horrible 
> crocodile
> god in Egyptian religion who munched hearts.
> 
> I don't honestly know why we have to bother about light disguises.
> 
> This of course leads to the inevitable question: if all computer people 
> eventually grow
> horns where does that leave Kevin Miller, You and Me

:D

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond asked:

This of course leads to the inevitable question: if all computer people
eventually grow
horns where does that leave Kevin Miller, You and Me


Imps.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Jim Sims]

On Oct 26, 2010, at 8:13 PM, Richmond wrote:

> where does that leave Kevin Miller, You and Me

Don't know about you or Kevin. I'm thinking Russian Riveria at Jumala, then 
Riga to S.Pb by train - Moscow -  trans-Sierian RR.  Yurts & horses.

Off the grid and onto the tracks.

Ciao ciao! 

sims





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/26/2010 06:56 PM, Bob Sneidar wrote:

Here here!

Bob


On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:46 AM, Kay C Lan wrote:


Ah, been extremely busy of late and have a brief moment to visit the List to
discover nothing has changed, the old OS wars continues lightly disguised as
Steve is Satan discussion.




Let's try to imagine something a bit more intelligent than a bipolar 
Christian

"all-or-nothing" situation with Heaven and Hell; for starters, how about a
multiplicity of hells with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates as shameless 
devils, and,
dare I say it, Mark Shuttleworth as a sort of sneaky, covered devil; 
probably
we could cast "ole Squeaky" (err . . .Richard Stallman) as that horrible 
crocodile

god in Egyptian religion who munched hearts.

I don't honestly know why we have to bother about light disguises.

This of course leads to the inevitable question: if all computer people 
eventually grow

horns where does that leave Kevin Miller, You and Me
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bob Sneidar]

Here here! 

Bob


On Oct 23, 2010, at 2:46 AM, Kay C Lan wrote:

> Ah, been extremely busy of late and have a brief moment to visit the List to
> discover nothing has changed, the old OS wars continues lightly disguised as
> Steve is Satan discussion.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

Helpful synthese post, Kevin

Thanks,

Kind regards from southern Europ

Pierre


Le 26 oct. 2010 à 14:14, Kevin Miller a écrit :

> Hi folks,
> 
> I've blogged with my take on the Mac App store here:
> 
> http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> LiveCode - Realize fast, compile-free coding
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Kevin Miller]

Hi folks,

I've blogged with my take on the Mac App store here:

http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
LiveCode - Realize fast, compile-free coding


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Terry Judd]

On 26/10/10 3:47 PM, "Pierre Sahores"  wrote:

> The way successfully used by the french Credit Agricole bank to make it's
> fortune in using a slipknot credit policy to make its cattle's breeders
> customers as dependent as possible from the bank. Apple will probably be
> successful too in granting its ability to have the test-market risks and job
> done by others before killing them by Apple labeled cloned apps when the
> original solutions become too profitable to let them in independent and naive
> hands. Is Apple on the road to become one of the most important cloner all
> over the world after China ? Perhaps not...

The major supermarket chains operate in exactly the same way.

Terry...

--
Dr Terry Judd | Senior Lecturer in Medical Education
Medical Education Unit
Melbourne Medical School
The University of Melbourne


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 26 oct. 2010 à 01:33, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :

> The devil suggests Richard's installer
> warning, new APIs only available store partners, and interactively modifying
> requirements and restrictions whenever there's a new vertical market Apple
> can profitably exploit (after proven by third parties of course). The devil
> is 100% in the camp of shareholder value, so I think there's something to be
> worried about.

The way successfully used by the french Credit Agricole bank to make it's 
fortune in using a slipknot credit policy to make its cattle's breeders 
customers as dependent as possible from the bank. Apple will probably be 
successful too in granting its ability to have the test-market risks and job 
done by others before killing them by Apple labeled cloned apps when the 
original solutions become too profitable to let them in independent and naive 
hands. Is Apple on the road to become one of the most important cloner all over 
the world after China ? Perhaps not...

It will just become part of our job not to depend from Apple in any way at all. 
Our chance : SJ don't care - for yet - about enterprise vertical markets nor 
cloud and saas ones.

Best,

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

This famous study on the impact WalMart has had on small town businesses
certainly debunks your notion both can thrive-- your comments regarding 30%
and other non sequiturs notwithstanding. You may wish to '*take the time to
examine*' it.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.econ.iastate.edu/faculty/stone/1995_IA_WM_study.pdf

On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

> This analogy would hold true, if WalMart charged 30% of the profit margin
> of everything sold in it's store, required a registration process before you
> could even sell anything through them, but had such awesome security that
> all but eliminated shoplifting and employee theft. In an environment such as
> that, it would not at all be inconceivable that other business models could
> thrive.
>
> You know, people really play fast and loose with analogies these days,
> because they can say, "Well it's like..." and few people will take the time
> to examine the argument critically to see if indeed the analogy holds up.
> This especially is true when people want the argument supposedly supported
> by the analogy to be valid.
>
> my 2¢, Bob
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Alex Tweedly]

 Hi Sarah - very interesting perspective on the App Store. I was 
particularly struck by one point.


On 25/10/2010 01:36, Sarah Reichelt wrote:


The other iOS phenomenon I would expect to see on the Mac, is greater
numbers of small, cheap, single-use apps. LiveCode is ideally suited
to this market, provided we can get the native controls etc, that the
App store will require.

I am building a small app (primarily, if not entirely) for my own use. 
It does two related, but kind of different, things, which need slightly 
different user input. And I've been struggling with how to handle that


Should I
 - display all controls
 - have modes, and disable those controls that don't currently apply
 - hide those that don't apply
 - use modal / wizard style for the more complicated one 

Oh, so many choices. And your point above gave me the right answer for 
this case - make it two separate apps. Make each one totally focused, no 
complications arise over what controls to show or what to display.


Sometimes the answer is too simple :-)

Thanks,
-- Alex.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

Hi Chipp, Bob,

> http://gizmodo.com/5670812/big-brother-apple-and-the-death-of-the-prog
> > ram?skyline=true&s=i
> > 
> > One of the more interesting comments is so appropriately true:
> > 
> >> The argument that the app store doesn't bar outside 
> installations is bogus. It's like making the "free market" 
> argument for walmart. Having a walmart in the center of your 
> town and expecting "competition" to thrive is not a very smart bet. 

I think this is a close analogy, except that Walmart is loved only for one
thing - its prices. There's no value add otherwise from Walmart. With Apple,
there is the *perceived* value add of Apple products (I don't want to debate
actual value, but those who buy Apple products very often have a very high
perceived value for what they are getting), that is unlike any other
platform.

When Microsoft coupled Internet Explorer to its OS or its own MSN on its
desktop, I don't think many people assumed those things where there
specifically because they were best of breed; but the presence of both was
deemed to be anti-competitive. Being pre-installed means something (and
something to consider now that Apple is no longer pre-installing Flash).

The problem with the Mac App Store is that it makes a lot of sense, but its
fraught with moral ambiguities. I see a little SJ angel and a little SJ
devil on Steve's shoulders. The angel is piping on about how Apple isn't
closing down any other ways to purchase Mac apps or making it appear bad to
purchase them through other venues. The devil suggests Richard's installer
warning, new APIs only available store partners, and interactively modifying
requirements and restrictions whenever there's a new vertical market Apple
can profitably exploit (after proven by third parties of course). The devil
is 100% in the camp of shareholder value, so I think there's something to be
worried about.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bob Sneidar]

This analogy would hold true, if WalMart charged 30% of the profit margin of 
everything sold in it's store, required a registration process before you could 
even sell anything through them, but had such awesome security that all but 
eliminated shoplifting and employee theft. In an environment such as that, it 
would not at all be inconceivable that other business models could thrive. 

You know, people really play fast and loose with analogies these days, because 
they can say, "Well it's like..." and few people will take the time to examine 
the argument critically to see if indeed the analogy holds up. This especially 
is true when people want the argument supposedly supported by the analogy to be 
valid. 

my 2¢, Bob


On Oct 22, 2010, at 5:27 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Hi Lynn, 
> 
> Saw an interesting post over at Gizmodo today.
> http://gizmodo.com/5670812/big-brother-apple-and-the-death-of-the-program?skyline=true&s=i
> 
> One of the more interesting comments is so appropriately true:
> 
>> The argument that the app store doesn't bar outside installations is bogus. 
>> It's like making the "free market" argument for walmart. Having a walmart in 
>> the center of your town and expecting "competition" to thrive is not a very 
>> smart bet. 
>> It's like saying that "It would be a shame if you lost those kneecaps" is a 
>> compassionate statement. 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Sarah Reichelt]

Thanks Chipp. This thread has got so long that I couldn't find the post.


Sent from my iPad

On 25/10/2010, at 12:16 PM, Chipp Walters  wrote:

> That someone is probably me. Here's my research. Both of these reputable
> websites claim iPad apps sell for only about a buck more than iPhone apps.
> Not the best of news for developers who make a living selling apps.
> 
> http://www.tuaw.com/2010/05/04/average-ipad-app-price-is-1-more-than-iphone-apps/
> 
> and
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/05/ipad-pushing-average-apps-prices-higher-but-not-by-much.ars
> 
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Sarah Reichelt 
> wrote:
> 
>> Someone mentioned that the iOS App Store was not displaying the
>> expected increase in price from iPhone to iPad apps. My searches seem
>> to indicate that the average iPhone app costs $0.99 while the average
>> iPad app costs $4.99 i.e. 5 times the price.
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

That someone is probably me. Here's my research. Both of these reputable
websites claim iPad apps sell for only about a buck more than iPhone apps.
Not the best of news for developers who make a living selling apps.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/05/04/average-ipad-app-price-is-1-more-than-iphone-apps/

and
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/05/ipad-pushing-average-apps-prices-higher-but-not-by-much.ars

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Sarah Reichelt wrote:

> Someone mentioned that the iOS App Store was not displaying the
> expected increase in price from iPhone to iPad apps. My searches seem
> to indicate that the average iPhone app costs $0.99 while the average
> iPad app costs $4.99 i.e. 5 times the price.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, I wrote:

>> I am quite a novice in the whole iApp arena, but barring any methods of
>> cracking I haven't heard about yet, apps are more or less tied to a device
>> -- you cannot arbitrarily move apps from one device to another, and you
>> cannot distribute apps outside the app store (aside from testing and limited
>> distribution apps).  So "presumably", the someone wanting help legitimately
>> obtained your app.

Recently, Sarah Reichelt responded:

> Not quite true Scott.
> 
> App purchases are tied to an Apple ID which may have more than one device.
> I have apps on both my iPhone & iPad and I have only bought them once.
> If I buy on my iPhone, then try to buy again on my iPad, I get a
> message saying "You have already bought this app. Click here to
> download it again for free." (or something like that).
> So while the developer can be sure I bought the app, I can still use
> it on more than on device.

You're right Sarah, but my point was more that you can't take one of your
apps and arbitrarily hand it off to someone else.  It won't operate because
it's tied to a device ID (development or ad hoc), or your Apple ID (app
store).

I'm losing opacity in my old age...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Sarah Reichelt]

 Is there anyone here with apps in the current iOS App Store who can
 answer that?
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, no, they only offer tools/Web pages that display
>>> statistical data of your sales.
>>
>> How would it be possible for a developer to know if someone who calls is
>> actually eligible for technical support?
>
> I am quite a novice in the whole iApp arena, but barring any methods of
> cracking I haven't heard about yet, apps are more or less tied to a device
> -- you cannot arbitrarily move apps from one device to another, and you
> cannot distribute apps outside the app store (aside from testing and limited
> distribution apps).  So "presumably", the someone wanting help legitimately
> obtained your app.

Not quite true Scott.

App purchases are tied to an Apple ID which may have more than one device.
I have apps on both my iPhone & iPad and I have only bought them once.
If I buy on my iPhone, then try to buy again on my iPad, I get a
message saying "You have already bought this app. Click here to
download it again for free." (or something like that).
So while the developer can be sure I bought the app, I can still use
it on more than on device.

With regards to the Mac App Store, I am a dedicated Mac person, but my
kids use PCs for playing games.
And where do my kids get their games? From Valve, via their Steam app store :-)
This allows online purchases, updates are automatic, downloads are
guaranteed virus-free. It's great.

Of course there are other games developers out there who are not part
of the Steam network, but as consumers, my children prefer the Steam
store. They don't have to persuade me to drive to the local store,
which most likely won't have the latest game. They get new releases at
the same time as the rest of the world (not usual here in Australia),
and the apps are much cheaper than they would be at the store.

Most of my development is in-house stuff or contract work, neither of
which would be suited to the App Store, but I release the occasional
bit of shareware. As I am not interested in spending my time on
elaborate protection schemes, I just rely on the small percentage of
users who will actually pay, but with the Mac App store, even if I
reduced the prices dramatically, I would still expect to make more.

Someone mentioned that the iOS App Store was not displaying the
expected increase in price from iPhone to iPad apps. My searches seem
to indicate that the average iPhone app costs $0.99 while the average
iPad app costs $4.99 i.e. 5 times the price. I would not be surprised
if Mac software followed the same curve and went for about $25.

The other iOS phenomenon I would expect to see on the Mac, is greater
numbers of small, cheap, single-use apps. LiveCode is ideally suited
to this market, provided we can get the native controls etc, that the
App store will require.

Finally (sorry for this rambling reply), I thing RunRev would be doing
themselves a great disservice if they did not make sure the LiveCode
itself was available through the Mac App Store. And with the new
single bundle installation, I think they have taken a big step towards
making that possible.

Cheers,
Sarah
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

Lynn,

An issue which may be interesting, especially considering Apple's recent foray 
into the Mac AppStore.



It appears Apple is being sued because of an iPhone app contained illegal 
images. I always wondered about implied liability: If it's Apple's store, 
Apple's license, Apple's DRM, and Apple's customer, then who is liable when 
something like this happens?

We all know any decent programmer could create an app with a trojan that pops 
up a "VOTE FOR MY CANDIDATE" window this November-- which could never be 
detected by the AppStore geniuses. So, who's legally at fault?

I guess this upcoming lawsuit may provide a hint, except I'm sure Apple will 
settle it out of court with terms not to be disclosed.  
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Phil Davis]

On 10/21/10 11:34 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Is there anyone here with apps in the current iOS App Store who can
answer that?

As far as I can tell, no, they only offer tools/Web pages that display
statistical data of your sales.

How would it be possible for a developer to know if someone who calls is
actually eligible for technical support?

I am quite a novice in the whole iApp arena, but barring any methods of
cracking I haven't heard about yet, apps are more or less tied to a device
-- you cannot arbitrarily move apps from one device to another,


FWIW - Recently I got an iPod Touch and restored by iPhone onto it, making it a 
mirror image of my phone app-wise except for the ability to call.


Phil Davis



and you
cannot distribute apps outside the app store (aside from testing and limited
distribution apps).  So "presumably", the someone wanting help legitimately
obtained your app.

Your question does raise another question: what about folks who deliver paid
apps with no restrictions on the devices they can run on?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



--
Phil Davis

PDS Labs
Professional Software Development
http://pdslabs.net

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> But anything they've done in Smartphones or other 'consumer 
> like' products like set top boxes (remember WebTV?), they 
> haven't done as well. The single exception in XBox360-- and 
> to this day I still don't understand how that one succeeded.

Xbox / Xbox 360 have been much easier to develop for (in terms of both the
actual development and the business side) than Nintendo or PlayStation. XNA
lets you pretty much develop your PC and Xbox games using the same source
code. My understanding is that the same code is portable to Zune (and I
believe Windows 7 Phone). Xbox Live is also an easy to use system for
downloading games, playing multi-player games, etc.

Historically, when Sony shipped the Playstation it was easier to develop for
than Nintendo and Segas offerings, but Xbox development is pretty much like
developing for Windows.

Xbox has done really well in the Americas and Europe, but its had a very
rough time in Asia.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Proactive International, LLC

- Because it is about who you know.(tm)
http://www.proactive-intl.com 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

Exactly. Sharepoint, .NET, SQLServer and other enterprise offerings are all
fine products, offering fine value for corporate America and are
well-supported.

IMO, MS stubbed their toe on WindowsME and Vista. The others were actually
pretty good. In fact, I really like Win7. The same version of altBrowser
that ran on the first versions of Win2000 still ran years later on Windows
7. Certainly the same can't be said for OSX.

But anything they've done in Smartphones or other 'consumer like' products
like set top boxes (remember WebTV?), they haven't done as well. The single
exception in XBox360-- and to this day I still don't understand how that one
succeeded.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Lynn Fredricks <
lfredri...@proactive-intl.com> wrote:

>
> For all its mistakes, MS has done a good job consistently supporting the
> corporate world.
>
>
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> > release the new KIM- a social network phone. It  sells-- what-- 500 
> > units it's first month? Can anyone seriously even think Apple could 
> > eFF that up as bad? Heck, Apple can rebrand a steaming pile of you 
> > know what and sell more than 500 units in a month.
> >
> 
> Umm . . . really; I thought that Microsoft were very good at 
> that . . . 
> take Windows for instance.

Everything exists on a timeline.

If you recall, Windows started as basically a shell on top of (a) DOS, and
the transition to Windows 95 was around the time that Apple was still in OS
7.x. MS and DOS (and later Windows) catered to business in a big way, and
they had some good friends too that helped them, whereas it was less of a
priority with Apple (and far more of a priority in the education market).
For all its mistakes, MS has done a good job consistently supporting the
corporate world.

All companies have their share of blunders, some are just more fun to talk
about than others.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Proactive International, LLC

- Because it is about who you know.(tm)
http://www.proactive-intl.com 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/24/2010 12:14 AM, Chipp Walters wrote:

One more thing. This isn't about OS wars. At least not from the perspective
I believe you may be talking about.

While I certainly don't agree with Steve on many issues, and one may infer
he may be Satan, he's a much smarter Satan than anyone else-- by far.

Just look at how weak the competition is in consumer computing. Couple of
years ago Microsoft acquired Danger and the Sidekick platform. They work
embellishing it for two years, then admist moderate hoopla, they release the
new KIM- a social network phone. It  sells-- what-- 500 units it's first
month? Can anyone seriously even think Apple could eFF that up as bad? Heck,
Apple can rebrand a steaming pile of you know what and sell more than 500
units in a month.



Umm . . . really; I thought that Microsoft were very good at that . . . 
take Windows for instance.



No, as long a Balmer's at the helm, MS will NEVER be able to compete in the
consumer arena outside of Windows and Office. Period. Peter will be angry
because soon it will be called the "Balmer principle."

And Google is like your idiot uncle who just happened to strike oil while
planting a Mary Jane garden out back. Uncle Google is so very rich and
throws money at anything and everything (except when it comes to paying
taxes.<
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html

).

Google's not interested in charging consumers for anything, because if it's
free, they don't have to support it. They've changed Google DOCS, actually
REMOVING features so it's no longer compatible with earlier vesions without
so much as a single focus group. And speaking of Google Docs, you still
can't edit them on an Android, which has been out for THREE YEARS. I guess
working on web apps does take longer. And the Android platform is another
'stellar' product "not yet ready for tablets" by their own admission. I
guess Apple snuck up on Google with the iPad. Maybe Google should get their
own RSS feed of Engadget, or Gizmodo.

The thought of a Google store scares Shcmidt probably about as much as the
tax man does right about now.  They haven't had a significant upgrade to
Gmail, or SketchUp or any of their products in so long (other than the
downgrade on GDocs), it's scary.

Nope, Google is a bunch of rich kids playing with toys, trying to invent
crap *like Wave* and hoping it catches on so they can sell more ads. HP and
others are starting to finally understand, Google won't help them compete
against the careful and well thought strategies from Stevie and Apple.

Steve's presentation last week was a marvel to behold. Each time he reveals
only a bit more of the master plan to control the universe, which is looking
more and more like it can't fail. Especially with the willing fans Apple
has. The single flaw in the strategy is Steve's own mortality.

Furthermore, does anyone really see a threat of a MS AppStore or a Google
AppStore? Heck no-- because we all KNOW neither could ever pull it off. But
Apple-- that's different.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Kay C Lan  wrote:


Ah, been extremely busy of late and have a brief moment to visit the List
to
discover nothing has changed, the old OS wars continues lightly disguised
as
Steve is Satan discussion.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

One more thing. This isn't about OS wars. At least not from the perspective
I believe you may be talking about.

While I certainly don't agree with Steve on many issues, and one may infer
he may be Satan, he's a much smarter Satan than anyone else-- by far.

Just look at how weak the competition is in consumer computing. Couple of
years ago Microsoft acquired Danger and the Sidekick platform. They work
embellishing it for two years, then admist moderate hoopla, they release the
new KIM- a social network phone. It  sells-- what-- 500 units it's first
month? Can anyone seriously even think Apple could eFF that up as bad? Heck,
Apple can rebrand a steaming pile of you know what and sell more than 500
units in a month.

No, as long a Balmer's at the helm, MS will NEVER be able to compete in the
consumer arena outside of Windows and Office. Period. Peter will be angry
because soon it will be called the "Balmer principle."

And Google is like your idiot uncle who just happened to strike oil while
planting a Mary Jane garden out back. Uncle Google is so very rich and
throws money at anything and everything (except when it comes to paying
taxes. <
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-21/google-2-4-rate-shows-how-60-billion-u-s-revenue-lost-to-tax-loopholes.html
>).

Google's not interested in charging consumers for anything, because if it's
free, they don't have to support it. They've changed Google DOCS, actually
REMOVING features so it's no longer compatible with earlier vesions without
so much as a single focus group. And speaking of Google Docs, you still
can't edit them on an Android, which has been out for THREE YEARS. I guess
working on web apps does take longer. And the Android platform is another
'stellar' product "not yet ready for tablets" by their own admission. I
guess Apple snuck up on Google with the iPad. Maybe Google should get their
own RSS feed of Engadget, or Gizmodo.

The thought of a Google store scares Shcmidt probably about as much as the
tax man does right about now.  They haven't had a significant upgrade to
Gmail, or SketchUp or any of their products in so long (other than the
downgrade on GDocs), it's scary.

Nope, Google is a bunch of rich kids playing with toys, trying to invent
crap *like Wave* and hoping it catches on so they can sell more ads. HP and
others are starting to finally understand, Google won't help them compete
against the careful and well thought strategies from Stevie and Apple.

Steve's presentation last week was a marvel to behold. Each time he reveals
only a bit more of the master plan to control the universe, which is looking
more and more like it can't fail. Especially with the willing fans Apple
has. The single flaw in the strategy is Steve's own mortality.

Furthermore, does anyone really see a threat of a MS AppStore or a Google
AppStore? Heck no-- because we all KNOW neither could ever pull it off. But
Apple-- that's different.

On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Kay C Lan  wrote:

> Ah, been extremely busy of late and have a brief moment to visit the List
> to
> discover nothing has changed, the old OS wars continues lightly disguised
> as
> Steve is Satan discussion.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

Kay,

I get it you're a big Apple fan. Good for you. I'm curious, do you
make a living writing and selling Mac software, or just investing in
Apple stock and watching it rise? Perhaps it might help looking at
things from a developer's point of view. Do you think it fair Apple
exchanges a 70% royalty check for taking your customers-- forcing you
to use THEIR license and copy protection scheme? What if someone hacks
the DRM (and you know they will)-- how fast do you think Apple will
act then?

What if you release something which is not right, and you want to
instantly update it, but you can't because Apple requires update
submissions to go through a grueling submission process which takes
days, instead of seconds like we are used to? Furthermore, what if
Apple could, on a whim,  kill your whole AppStore business down the
road because they didn't like your new interface? Then, you have to
"ghetto-market" your new product without even knowing who your
previous customers were. I suspect my own product, ButtonGadget would
be banned from the store because it has a non standard interface.

And you would surely reply with a grin, "nothing keeps you from
marketing it yourself." Tell that to the thousands of family run
storefronts obliterated when a WalMart moves into a small town. There
is no way a small developer can compete, except in the ghetto.

I guarantee one thing. There will be huge downward price pressure on
apps. Apple has even said how they will take longer to evaluate a
submission the more expensive it is. I remember when people said apps
for iPad would be significantly more expensive than for iPhone. They
were wrong, too. Most still wince at paying over 4 bucks an app.

While many of you really believe this is better for the customer, I
believe it is worse. There are a number of beta and not yet finished
apps which will be banned as well. And lots of small developers,
including yours truly, will just abandon the Mac altogether, because
the threshold for putting up with Apple is just too high. And once
developers figure out how few Macs are actually out there (not like
the number of iPhones), and how little money they make at 70% of a
buck ninety-nine, they will be forced to look at other platforms to
develop for.

I'm tired of Steve making decisions in the best interest of me. I
still wish I could run flash video on my iPad, and I seriously
wouldn't mind the occasional crash. Heck, the browser I use crashes
every 15 minutes anyway.



On Saturday, October 23, 2010, Kay C Lan  wrote:
> Ah, been extremely busy of late and have a brief moment to visit the List to
> discover nothing has changed, the old OS wars continues lightly disguised as
> Steve is Satan discussion.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> > I believe Steve's last 'will spell the end of Apple' 
> decision was made 
> > about 30 April when Apple stock was around $261.09.
> 
> Apple's stock price <> third-party developer revenue.
> 
> As a shareholder, I think moving 30% of the Mac world's 
> software revenue into their own pocket is one of the most 
> brilliant business moves in the company's history.
> 
> For Apple.
> 
> For developers it's a bit different.

I think as a quarter-by-quarter plan, it is brilliant. But my limited
experience tells me that there is a tendency in our industry for new or old
parties to come up with game changers that shift the balance of power (or
balance of market share).

I am certain that the gnomes of Apple have mapped out every possible revenue
stream that is associated with Apple related products or spheres of
influence, and after moving to own the ones that are critical to
quarter-to-quarter share value, they have moved, step by step, to own and
control the others. That's what Thoughts on Flash was all about.

As Apple gains control of these areas, third parties either reconfigure or
abandon the platform. The borders expand as previous partners either are
absorbed or give way to an Apple offering.

But then, when one of those game changers comes along, Apple is at both its
strongest and weakest. I am not discounting their consumer focus, which is
brilliant. The success in those markets was achieved through making
compeling products AND taking ownership of the customer relationship by
opening Apple Stores, launching the online Apple store that matches any
source in terms of price. For Apple, ownership of the customer relationship
is of critical importance - but if you play in the Mac App Store, that's
exactly what you are giving up to them.

Begin theme music from "The Lord of the Rings" :-)

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/23/2010 07:19 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Kay C Lan wrote:

I believe Steve's last 'will spell the end of Apple' decision was 
made about

30 April when Apple stock was around $261.09.


Apple's stock price <> third-party developer revenue.

As a shareholder, I think moving 30% of the Mac world's software 
revenue into their own pocket is one of the most brilliant business 
moves in the company's history.


For Apple.

For developers it's a bit different.

Take a good look long at OS X 10.7's Launch Pad and consider the 
implications.


Once independent web distribution means a 30% loss to Apple, it would 
be a slap in the face to their shareholders if Apple didn't do 
everything possible to communicate to their audience that App Store 
apps are the only cool ones, the only convenient ones, the only safe 
ones; ultimately, the only desirable ones.


While it may seem comical today, this dialog box may not be completely 
unimaginable a year or two from now:



As a developer that's frightening, but as a shareholder I would expect 
nothing less.




Your reasoning is clear; if Computers and Software are regarded as 
Business one thing,


if they are regarded as Educational Tools another thing.

But, all rather difficult to have both as they do seem to be becoming, 
increasingly, mutually exclusive.




I am just in the process of moving my EFL school from 1 room to 3 bigger 
ones; 2 classrooms and a
"free space" where kids can hang around and do their homework, eat their 
sandwiches, talk about
the price of fish, or whatever, between their English classes and when 
they go down the road to their

regular school.

As a business friend remarked; "That's bad business; you could have 
another classroom there with another teacher." To which my reply was; 
"Sorry, I'm not made like that."

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Colin Holgate]

A few times in the past I've bought these discounted bundles, where you get 
perhaps a dozen applications for less than the price of the most expensive of 
them. It's generally a good deal, especially if there's just one of them that 
you were already thinking about buying at full price. Those economics may seems 
crazy, the software developers must be getting 1/10th the amount they normally 
would. But then they are probably selling to more than ten times as many people 
as normal, so overall they have earned more in the same period that usual.

It doesn't matter anyway, because where they go on to make more money is in 
upgrades. I have several bits of software that I keep up on the upgrades. The 
developers may well have made five times the original amount from me. So, in 
the Mac App Store there will be lots of winners. All the current publishers 
could sell a lot more copies of their apps by lowering the price as much as is 
viable, and later they will make money off those buyers when the upgrades come 
out (I don't think upgrades will be expected to be free like they are with iOS 
apps). Then there is all of us, people who might not be able to convince a 
publisher to carry such a niche application. We'll be able to submit 
applications, and some of those might be as big a hit as Plexxr, for example.

If I took a guess, I'd say that Mac Apps will be typically $9.95. That's not 
quite as impulse purchase encouraging as $0.99 or $1.99 is, but it's still is a 
reasonable figure. I dare say there will be tie-ins too, where you create a 
desktop app that works along with a mobile part. Then you make $10 for one and 
$2 for the other.

 
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/23/2010 05:40 PM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:

To most people, this has never had anything to do with OS choice or with
Apple's stock price.  It has to do with corporate conduct.  It has to do
with the following:-

1)  Do you want a society in which your access to applications and thus
increasingly to media is in the control of a few corporations who make the
platforms?  Or do you want a world in which you buy the platform, install
what you want from where you want, buy, read and watch and listen to what
you want from wherever you want?  Its the CD model versus the iTunes model.

2)  Do you as developer want to have one route to market, an App store run
by the device manufacturer, and have him able to eject your stuff instantly
on a whim?  And then let it back in again on a whim, who knows for how long?

The reason the debate now comes up with OSX has nothing to do with that OS
in particular, it is that people think, reasonably enough based on the track
record, that Apple is starting to move OSX to the iPod and iPad model.  They
don't trust it.  And they think it has serious societal implications.  Once
again, reasonably enough, given the track record.  These are the guys who
ban apps based on what you can, but do not have to, use them to download,
when the material you allegedly might download is perfectly legal in your
jurisdiction, but for some reason, the guys at Apple do not approve of it.
They banned Matlab, for Heaven's sake!  A version of Ulysses!

Corporate control of what you can do with your computer or your ebook reader
or your tablet is a threat, probably in the West now emerging as the main
threat, to intellectual freedom.  This is not OS wars.  This is corporate
conduct wars.  The same or very similar points can be made about Amazon and
its ebook format and sales methods.

It is perfectly possible that being on the wrong side of that debate may be
very profitable for Apple and lead to rising share prices. I doubt it, I
think the probable effect of these efforts at control will be to promote
hacking and piracy.


The other day, one of the kids who worked with RunRev with me over the 
summer
asked me where he could get a copy of RevMedia for Windows as his system 
had been

hosed by a virus and he hadn't got a backup copy.

I was severely tempted . . . but didn't.



  But even were it a good route to rising profits and
stock prices, doesn't make it any righter.  And the problem is, Apple always
has been evil in this way, but it used not to matter because it was too
small for its example to matter.  Now it is getting bigger, its a real force
in society.  So you can no longer say, you don't like it don't buy it.  You
buy it or not, its influence is profound.


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richard Gaskin]

Kay C Lan wrote:


I believe Steve's last 'will spell the end of Apple' decision was made about
30 April when Apple stock was around $261.09.


Apple's stock price <> third-party developer revenue.

As a shareholder, I think moving 30% of the Mac world's software revenue 
into their own pocket is one of the most brilliant business moves in the 
company's history.


For Apple.

For developers it's a bit different.

Take a good look long at OS X 10.7's Launch Pad and consider the 
implications.


Once independent web distribution means a 30% loss to Apple, it would be 
a slap in the face to their shareholders if Apple didn't do everything 
possible to communicate to their audience that App Store apps are the 
only cool ones, the only convenient ones, the only safe ones; 
ultimately, the only desirable ones.


While it may seem comical today, this dialog box may not be completely 
unimaginable a year or two from now:



As a developer that's frightening, but as a shareholder I would expect 
nothing less.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Peter Alcibiades]

To most people, this has never had anything to do with OS choice or with
Apple's stock price.  It has to do with corporate conduct.  It has to do
with the following:-

1)  Do you want a society in which your access to applications and thus
increasingly to media is in the control of a few corporations who make the
platforms?  Or do you want a world in which you buy the platform, install
what you want from where you want, buy, read and watch and listen to what
you want from wherever you want?  Its the CD model versus the iTunes model.

2)  Do you as developer want to have one route to market, an App store run
by the device manufacturer, and have him able to eject your stuff instantly
on a whim?  And then let it back in again on a whim, who knows for how long?

The reason the debate now comes up with OSX has nothing to do with that OS
in particular, it is that people think, reasonably enough based on the track
record, that Apple is starting to move OSX to the iPod and iPad model.  They
don't trust it.  And they think it has serious societal implications.  Once
again, reasonably enough, given the track record.  These are the guys who
ban apps based on what you can, but do not have to, use them to download,
when the material you allegedly might download is perfectly legal in your
jurisdiction, but for some reason, the guys at Apple do not approve of it. 
They banned Matlab, for Heaven's sake!  A version of Ulysses!

Corporate control of what you can do with your computer or your ebook reader
or your tablet is a threat, probably in the West now emerging as the main
threat, to intellectual freedom.  This is not OS wars.  This is corporate
conduct wars.  The same or very similar points can be made about Amazon and
its ebook format and sales methods.

It is perfectly possible that being on the wrong side of that debate may be
very profitable for Apple and lead to rising share prices. I doubt it, I
think the probable effect of these efforts at control will be to promote
hacking and piracy.  But even were it a good route to rising profits and
stock prices, doesn't make it any righter.  And the problem is, Apple always
has been evil in this way, but it used not to matter because it was too
small for its example to matter.  Now it is getting bigger, its a real force
in society.  So you can no longer say, you don't like it don't buy it.  You
buy it or not, its influence is profound.
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Mac-App-Store-tp3004425p3008464.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Kay C Lan]

Ah, been extremely busy of late and have a brief moment to visit the List to
discover nothing has changed, the old OS wars continues lightly disguised as
Steve is Satan discussion.

I'm a little surprised we are still alive after the previous apocalyptic
prophesies made about the previous draconian decree forced upon us by Steve.

As usual I'll vote with my wallet, and lets just see what the wallet has to
say about Steve's suicidal business decisions:

I believe Steve's last 'will spell the end of Apple' decision was made about
30 April when Apple stock was around $261.09. Of course, unlike an
individual of integrity, who'd stand by their statements and stick with them
now matter how foolish they are - a bit like the decorated military
commanders we revere who just keep sending the troops to their deaths no
matter the toll, because they said they'd get that job done - Steve had to
eat humble pie and go back on his word, which I think occurred around Sep
10th - Apple stock had subsequently languished selling at a measly $263.41.
Today the Stock is suffering at $309.52 and guess given the List's 'the end
is nigh' assessment of his latest announcement, will continue to suffer
badly as Apple dwindles into oblivion.

Some of course might find it interesting that on 30th April Microsoft was
listed at $30:54, having not made any silly decisions on 10th Sep it was
listed at $23:85, and today at $25:38! Outside of the Tech industry Walmart
was listed at $53:64 30th April, and again didn't make any silly decisions,
so on 10th Sep were listed at $51:97, and today at $54:06.

Yep, some people on this List, if they had a spare 10 grand would go out and
'eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die'. Me, between Apple and any
other company represented by any individual on this List, I'd invest that 10
grand in Apple - there's still a whole heap more money to be made up until
the time Steve dies, then it's SELL SELL SELL!

It's strange how some people think that the real reason people buy Korean
cars is because they are more reliable, cheaper and do the same job, if not
better, than the more expensive European offering. The truth is, apart from
a very few select individuals, Warren Buffett is the only one that comes to
mind, the vast majority of consumers, if they won $133 million on the New
York Mega Million Lottery, would go out and buy the Ferrari. Deep down
everyone knows what they really want, but it's common sense that prevails
and forces as to justify our more sensible spending. It's the marketing
man's job to push that common sense boundary as high up the price ladder as
he can.

Steve is Satan, he's been pushing Apple from the very beginning ;-)
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

Bill,

That article is at mac observer-- so I'm thinking it could be a bit biased?
But, you are correct on a couple points. Netbooks are typically up to 1/8
the cost of the new MacBooks, and they have more USB and other external
ports.

Even so, my original point was you really can't believe anything Stevie
says. For instance, he has previously confirmed there would not be a Mac
AppStore-- now there is one.


On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Bill Vlahos  wrote:

> I think this article says it really well.
>
> http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/what_the_pundits_are_getting_wrong_about_the_new_macbook_air/
>
> "The MacBook Air is indeed Apple’s answer to the netbook. (One of them,
> anyway — more on that later.) But the answer they’ve given is “you’re doing
> it wrong.” Those who think Apple simply released their version of the
> product they’ve been deriding just aren’t paying attention."
>
> The entire article is pretty good and a better interpretation.
>
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bill Vlahos]

I think this article says it really well.
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/ 
what_the_pundits_are_getting_wrong_about_the_new_macbook_air/


"The MacBook Air is indeed Apple’s answer to the netbook. (One of  
them, anyway — more on that later.) But the answer they’ve given is  
“you’re doing it wrong.” Those who think Apple simply released their  
version of the product they’ve been deriding just aren’t paying  
attention."


The entire article is pretty good and a better interpretation.

Bill Vlahos

On Oct 21, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

Consider it was mere months ago when Steve told us all, "Netbooks  
aren't better than anything, they're just cheap laptops" and  
yesterday he announces Apple's first netbook.


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

Hi Lynn, 

Saw an interesting post over at Gizmodo today.
http://gizmodo.com/5670812/big-brother-apple-and-the-death-of-the-program?skyline=true&s=i

One of the more interesting comments is so appropriately true:

> The argument that the app store doesn't bar outside installations is bogus. 
> It's like making the "free market" argument for walmart. Having a walmart in 
> the center of your town and expecting "competition" to thrive is not a very 
> smart bet. 
> It's like saying that "It would be a shame if you lost those kneecaps" is a 
> compassionate statement. 
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Nice article, Lynn.

Thanks Chipp!

> Heck, I first purchased TechSmith's SnagIt years ago, then 
> Camtasia soon after it launched. I now get an email every so 
> often with an upgrade discount offer I can't resist. They 
> receive 100% of the revenue, all for the cost of a single 
> email. This won't happen anymore with the new AppStore.

Absolutely - and this is under the guise of the new venue being more
trusted. That's a card that brokerages play often (as we both know from
elsewhere ;-)).

> I don't suspect any of these developers will be happy UNLESS 
> they can continue selling their products through traditional 
> channels AS WELL as the Mac AppStore-- AND receive the 
> customer registration information from the AppStore when a 
> sale is made. I'll be surprised if Apple allows for both of 
> these things to happen.

Right! I don't think at any point they will give you access to user
registration data, and simply claim it's a matter of their privacy policy.
It is the same with several publishers out there Ive worked with.


> I believe Apple is trying an end run stategy to bypass the 
> Internet, and become the new Kingmaker of software, much like 
> they've been able to do with the music industry. I suspect if 
> you could turn back the clocks, many music execs would've 
> acted much different before it all started to go Apple's way.

No matter what claims come from Apple as to intent, this is exactly the
strategy to take if tht is their intent. Admitting it would certainly cause
great harm to Apple, so we will never know until it either happens or not.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Thomas McGrath III]

Scott,

Congratulations on making to the new and noteworthy pane on the AppStore!!! 
Just a few reviews and there you are. I can not imagine any other way to get 
that kind of exposure that quickly. And to think this could happen for desktop 
apps still seems a good thing to me. It levels the playing field for some.

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
http://lazyriver.on-rev.com
3mcgr...@comcast.net

I Can Speak - Communication for the rest of us...
http://mypad.lazyriver.on-rev.com

I Can Speak on the iPad Store
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/i-can-speak/id364733279?mt=8

On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:03 PM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> For myself, I'm not sure enough details are available to really know whether
> this is a good thing or not.  I would agree that first impression seems kind
> of questionable.  Apple controlling everything seems undesirable.
> 
> On the other hand, my little iPad game is currently being featured under the
> New and Noteworthy section of the Games section in the App Store.
> 
> I'm torn: do I cheer Apple on or throw tomatoes at them? :-)
> 
> (Thanks again to everyone for their support -- very much appreciated.)
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

Yep. Thanks François

Pierre

Le 21 oct. 2010 à 23:15, François Chaplais a écrit :

> A very interesting blog post about the Oracle v.s. Google lawsuit (hint: it 
> revolves around Java ownership and its impact on android)
> http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/08/14/how-oracle-might-kill-googles-android-and-software-patents-all-at-once/
> A word of warning: the author is an Apple fanboy and does not like google. 
> However, his perspective is intellectually stimulating (well, at least for me)
> Best
>   François
> Le 21 oct. 2010 à 23:05, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :
> 
>>> This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be 
>>> maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future 
>>> versions of Mac OS X. The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 
>>> 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue 
>>> to be supported and maintained through the standard support 
>>> cycles of those products.
>> 
>> I suspect this is another tremor caused in part by a change in ownership of
>> Java.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Lynn Fredricks
>> President
>> Proactive International, LLC
>> 
>> - Because it is about who you know.(tm)
>> http://www.proactive-intl.com 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

Sems me that this will stay the way to go as long as the "password protected 
stack's library" support will not be added to the LiveCode cgi-based 
application's server engine :-/

Would be great to get this feature added to the server engine as soon as 
possible. A timeline info would greatly help me as i'm just thinking to convert 
an important project from ".rev" to the old CGI way to become able to publish 
the app without having to let anyone access to the .irev libs contents.

Kind Regards,

Pierre

Le 22 oct. 2010 à 12:48, Jim Sims a écrit :

> I'm currently working on a project and now thinking of using the old CGI rev 
> engine, not the plugin. 
> 
> You can do a lot with the CGI engine - even more if you throw a connecting 
> standalone into the mix.
> 
> I was going to use a different setup but all seems clearer now.
> 
> sims
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Richmond wrote:
> 
>> On 10/22/2010 12:58 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>>> It will certainly become the most agnostic way to provide win-win next step 
>>> solutions to agnostic customers ...
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Pierre
>>> 
>>> Le 22 oct. 2010 à 08:53, Jim Sims a écrit :
>>> 
 The thought occurs to me that  Web Apps are looking far more attractive.
 
 sims
 
 
>> 
>> It certainly would be the solution for programmers who are not prepared to 
>> "jump"
>> from Mac and Win to 'the dark side' of Linux - and why people seem so 
>> frightened
>> escapes me; but it does seem to be the case.
>> 
>> So; the next question we have to start asking is about the web-plugin, how 
>> functional
>> it is on
>> 
>> what platforms
>> 
>> and in
>> 
>> which browsers.
>> 
>> And . . . for real 'agnosticism' the plugin might have to cease being 
>> PC-based and
>> delivered in some other way . . .
>> 
>> i.e.: all browsers on all operating systems.
>> 
>> it certainly isn't 'agnostic' enough for DOS, RISC OS, MorphOS or Haiku . . 
>> .  :(
>> ___
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> 
> 
> sims
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 22 oct. 2010 à 01:10, Chipp Walters a écrit :

> Nice article, Lynn.
> 
> One thing it made me think of, is the incredible role the Internet has played 
> in software business development models. Previous to the Internet, the 
> software "Kingmakers" consisted primarily of the MacWorlds, MacUsers, etc. 
> and companies with deep enough pockets to advertise with them, and they 
> together controlled the public perception of what software was "good to buy."
> 
> Then the Internet came and almost immediately allowed for the small, 
> single-man developer to access thousands of independent minded customers by 
> simply putting a page on the web. Once they sold a few copies, they were able 
> to build a bit larger company and start to focus directly on new features and 
> products through customer feedback. This same channel became their target 
> market, and it succeeded mostly due to the immediate nature of direct 
> marketing. 
> 
> Heck, I first purchased TechSmith's SnagIt years ago, then Camtasia soon 
> after it launched. I now get an email every so often with an upgrade discount 
> offer I can't resist. They receive 100% of the revenue, all for the cost of a 
> single email. This won't happen anymore with the new AppStore.
> 
> I don't suspect any of these developers will be happy UNLESS they can 
> continue selling their products through traditional channels AS WELL as the 
> Mac AppStore-- AND receive the customer registration information from the 
> AppStore when a sale is made. I'll be surprised if Apple allows for both of 
> these things to happen.
> 
> I believe Apple is trying an end run stategy to bypass the Internet, and 
> become the new Kingmaker of software, much like they've been able to do with 
> the music industry. I suspect if you could turn back the clocks, many music 
> execs would've acted much different before it all started to go Apple's way.

So, if you suspect that Apple won't be successful in this way, i just agree. 
Thanks to the forecoming Cloud way to go ;-)
> 
> If you want a laugh, check out Richard's recent blog post over at 
> LiveCodeJournal.com:
> http://livecodejournal.com/blog.irv  
> 
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
> 
> On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:50 PM, "Lynn Fredricks"  
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> The Mac App Store is a dangerous unknown. Apple doesn't have to rush
>> eliminate other alternatives, but instead let the weight of presence in the
>> OS and the direction of user opinion (like we saw with the Thoughts on Flash
>> debaucle) move it step by step to an exclusive model and ownership of your
>> customer relations. Maybe that's not the goal, but the Mac App Store is just
>> the sort of tool you could use to accomplish that.
>> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 22 oct. 2010 à 00:06, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :

>> A very interesting blog post about the Oracle v.s. Google 
>> lawsuit (hint: it revolves around Java ownership and its 
>> impact on android) 
>> http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/08/14/how-oracle-might-kill
>> -googles-android-and-software-patents-all-at-once/
>> A word of warning: the author is an Apple fanboy and does not 
>> like google. However, his perspective is intellectually 
>> stimulating (well, at least for me) Best
>>  François
> 
> Yes, very interesting. At Paradigma, this is often a topic of conversation
> because Sun's business is a trio of technologies: 
> 
> - Solaris

Just a slow Unix

> - Java

Just a slow and low-suited tech paradigm

> - MySQL

Just an non ACID-Complient RDBMS system
> 
> My understanding is that Oracle has made very serious investments in Java
> based tools and Linux. They definitely do have some plans for Solaris - even
> as they've shut down any work on Open Solaris - but I think both that and
> MySQL are not the reason why Oracle purchased Sun. Oracle has a real enemy
> in IBM, and IBM was also making offers on Sun. If IBM got ahold of Java,
> they could make Oracle really suffer.

Seems a realistic tough ;-)
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lynn Fredricks
> President
> Paradigma Software
> http://www.paradigmasoft.com
> 
> Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


Best regards,

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Jim Sims]

I'm currently working on a project and now thinking of using the old CGI rev 
engine, not the plugin. 

You can do a lot with the CGI engine - even more if you throw a connecting 
standalone into the mix.

I was going to use a different setup but all seems clearer now.

sims



On Oct 22, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Richmond wrote:

> On 10/22/2010 12:58 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:
>> It will certainly become the most agnostic way to provide win-win next step 
>> solutions to agnostic customers ...
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Pierre
>> 
>> Le 22 oct. 2010 à 08:53, Jim Sims a écrit :
>> 
>>> The thought occurs to me that  Web Apps are looking far more attractive.
>>> 
>>> sims
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> It certainly would be the solution for programmers who are not prepared to 
> "jump"
> from Mac and Win to 'the dark side' of Linux - and why people seem so 
> frightened
> escapes me; but it does seem to be the case.
> 
> So; the next question we have to start asking is about the web-plugin, how 
> functional
> it is on
> 
> what platforms
> 
> and in
> 
> which browsers.
> 
> And . . . for real 'agnosticism' the plugin might have to cease being 
> PC-based and
> delivered in some other way . . .
> 
> i.e.: all browsers on all operating systems.
> 
> it certainly isn't 'agnostic' enough for DOS, RISC OS, MorphOS or Haiku . . . 
>  :(
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



sims





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/22/2010 12:58 PM, Pierre Sahores wrote:

It will certainly become the most agnostic way to provide win-win next step 
solutions to agnostic customers ...

Best,

Pierre

Le 22 oct. 2010 à 08:53, Jim Sims a écrit :


The thought occurs to me that  Web Apps are looking far more attractive.

sims




It certainly would be the solution for programmers who are not prepared 
to "jump"
from Mac and Win to 'the dark side' of Linux - and why people seem so 
frightened

escapes me; but it does seem to be the case.

So; the next question we have to start asking is about the web-plugin, 
how functional

it is on

what platforms

and in

which browsers.

And . . . for real 'agnosticism' the plugin might have to cease being 
PC-based and

delivered in some other way . . .

i.e.: all browsers on all operating systems.

it certainly isn't 'agnostic' enough for DOS, RISC OS, MorphOS or Haiku 
. . .  :(

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

It will certainly become the most agnostic way to provide win-win next step 
solutions to agnostic customers ...

Best,

Pierre

Le 22 oct. 2010 à 08:53, Jim Sims a écrit :

> The thought occurs to me that  Web Apps are looking far more attractive.
> 
> sims
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Peter Alcibiades]

Yes, Richard's post is spot on.  They have a track record, and this is how it
will start.

Peter
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Mac-App-Store-tp3004425p3006723.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Jim Sims]

The thought occurs to me that  Web Apps are looking far more attractive.

sims



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Scott Rossi]

For myself, I'm not sure enough details are available to really know whether
this is a good thing or not.  I would agree that first impression seems kind
of questionable.  Apple controlling everything seems undesirable.

On the other hand, my little iPad game is currently being featured under the
New and Noteworthy section of the Games section in the App Store.

I'm torn: do I cheer Apple on or throw tomatoes at them? :-)

(Thanks again to everyone for their support -- very much appreciated.)

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

Nothing to add :-/

Best,

Pierre

Le 21 oct. 2010 à 23:27, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

> Is the the future of what our customers will see at our software sites?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
> LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 21 oct. 2010 à 23:58, Andre Garzia a écrit :

> It is the Year Of Penguins in the Neo-Chinese calendar, the year we'll set
> our computers free from the bad quality of windows and the ungrokkable mood
> swings of Steve Jobs of Sith... now, let me install ubuntu again after
> buying my iphone 4...
> 
> 
> Jokes aside, I believe they would not be so drastic since this would
> probably trigger an anti-competitive investigation or anti-trust stuff but
> this does not matter because in the mind of the consumer, the app store will
> be the place to be.
> 
> I am quite afraid of the future... :-/

You are not alone in this case...

Best,

Pierre

> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

Nice article, Lynn.

One thing it made me think of, is the incredible role the Internet has played 
in software business development models. Previous to the Internet, the software 
"Kingmakers" consisted primarily of the MacWorlds, MacUsers, etc. and companies 
with deep enough pockets to advertise with them, and they together controlled 
the public perception of what software was "good to buy."

Then the Internet came and almost immediately allowed for the small, single-man 
developer to access thousands of independent minded customers by simply putting 
a page on the web. Once they sold a few copies, they were able to build a bit 
larger company and start to focus directly on new features and products through 
customer feedback. This same channel became their target market, and it 
succeeded mostly due to the immediate nature of direct marketing. 

Heck, I first purchased TechSmith's SnagIt years ago, then Camtasia soon after 
it launched. I now get an email every so often with an upgrade discount offer I 
can't resist. They receive 100% of the revenue, all for the cost of a single 
email. This won't happen anymore with the new AppStore.

I don't suspect any of these developers will be happy UNLESS they can continue 
selling their products through traditional channels AS WELL as the Mac 
AppStore-- AND receive the customer registration information from the AppStore 
when a sale is made. I'll be surprised if Apple allows for both of these things 
to happen.

I believe Apple is trying an end run stategy to bypass the Internet, and become 
the new Kingmaker of software, much like they've been able to do with the music 
industry. I suspect if you could turn back the clocks, many music execs 
would've acted much different before it all started to go Apple's way.

If you want a laugh, check out Richard's recent blog post over at 
LiveCodeJournal.com:
http://livecodejournal.com/blog.irv  

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:50 PM, "Lynn Fredricks"  
wrote:

> 
> The Mac App Store is a dangerous unknown. Apple doesn't have to rush
> eliminate other alternatives, but instead let the weight of presence in the
> OS and the direction of user opinion (like we saw with the Thoughts on Flash
> debaucle) move it step by step to an exclusive model and ownership of your
> customer relations. Maybe that's not the goal, but the Mac App Store is just
> the sort of tool you could use to accomplish that.
> 
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bob Sneidar]

Not to carry on this post forever, but the model of the present iTunes app 
store is small apps that do one thing well that anyone (if approved) can use 
for free, or else pay a fee for commercial use. Enterprise app developers are 
simply not going to go with the model that Apple is presenting, or if they do 
it will be a vastly scaled down model of their software, with the ability to 
upgrade to the full "professional" versions. 

Now Microsoft just announced their own "cloud" based version of Office, but 
it's not going to go through Apple or anyone else. I think a LOT of developers 
would LIKE to move to a cloud based distribution model, for at least one reason 
that by itself is overwhelmingly appealing: No Piracy! So while devs may not go 
with APPLE'S model for reasons already discussed, they might very well go for 
another model. 

The real question is who's cloud are the devs going to pluck their harps on? I 
think we are seeing the beginning of what some predicted a long time ago, that 
is cloud based computing, and I don't like it one bit. I do NOT want to 
"license" software for use and pay a fee each year to support the 
infrastructure because all developers decided this was the model that benefited 
THEM most. I want to pay my money, and then be done with the developer. That is 
clearly NOT what developers want though. Presently, it's a storm wave model, 
lots of flow out the gate, and then they get washed up on the sand unless they 
can catch another wave. What they want is a deep flowing river model, only the 
river is not flowing with water but cash. 

This is a very bad trend (for consumers), which I think Apple saw coming too 
and decided to get out in front of. Don't focus on Apple, this is much bigger 
than one corporation. I think fostering consumer awareness about what 
developers intend is the strategy to combat this sort of thing. If people think 
they are going to have to pay a regular fee to continue to use their computers, 
they will revolt. And it has to happen soon, because once a lot of developers 
get into the cloud, they are not coming back out of it for ANYTHING. 

Bob


On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:18 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
> >> Is the the future of what our customers will see at our
> >> software sites?
> >>
> >> 
> >
> > Oh heck, no one is gonna put up with that!
> 
> Hard to say.
> 
> After all, it's just looking out for the user, providing as much "security" 
> and "safety" as they can.
> 
> Remember that iPhone users report that they like having that sort of 
> "stewardship", and many believe that being able to choose their own software 
> from their own download sites is completely undesirable.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
> LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

>> Is the the future of what our customers will see at our
>> software sites?
>>
>> 
>
> Oh heck, no one is gonna put up with that!

Hard to say.

After all, it's just looking out for the user, providing as much 
"security" and "safety" as they can.


Remember that iPhone users report that they like having that sort of 
"stewardship", and many believe that being able to choose their own 
software from their own download sites is completely undesirable.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> A very interesting blog post about the Oracle v.s. Google 
> lawsuit (hint: it revolves around Java ownership and its 
> impact on android) 
> http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/08/14/how-oracle-might-kill
> -googles-android-and-software-patents-all-at-once/
> A word of warning: the author is an Apple fanboy and does not 
> like google. However, his perspective is intellectually 
> stimulating (well, at least for me) Best
>   François

Yes, very interesting. At Paradigma, this is often a topic of conversation
because Sun's business is a trio of technologies: 

- Solaris
- Java
- MySQL

My understanding is that Oracle has made very serious investments in Java
based tools and Linux. They definitely do have some plans for Solaris - even
as they've shut down any work on Open Solaris - but I think both that and
MySQL are not the reason why Oracle purchased Sun. Oracle has a real enemy
in IBM, and IBM was also making offers on Sun. If IBM got ahold of Java,
they could make Oracle really suffer.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Andre Garzia]

It is the Year Of Penguins in the Neo-Chinese calendar, the year we'll set
our computers free from the bad quality of windows and the ungrokkable mood
swings of Steve Jobs of Sith... now, let me install ubuntu again after
buying my iphone 4...


Jokes aside, I believe they would not be so drastic since this would
probably trigger an anti-competitive investigation or anti-trust stuff but
this does not matter because in the mind of the consumer, the app store will
be the place to be.

I am quite afraid of the future... :-/
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Oh heck, no one is gonna put up with that!

The lack of porn? ;-)

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Proactive International, LLC

- Because it is about who you know.(tm)
http://www.proactive-intl.com 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bob Sneidar]

Oh heck, no one is gonna put up with that!

Bob


On Oct 21, 2010, at 2:50 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:

>> Is the the future of what our customers will see at our 
>> software sites?
>> 
>> 
> 
> Hilarious, Richard :-)
> 
> But you forgot one thing.
> 
> "...not containing viruses or porn."
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lynn Fredricks
> President
> Proactive International, LLC
> 
> - Because it is about who you know.(tm)
> http://www.proactive-intl.com 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Is the the future of what our customers will see at our 
> software sites?
> 
> 

Hilarious, Richard :-)

But you forgot one thing.

"...not containing viruses or porn."

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Proactive International, LLC

- Because it is about who you know.(tm)
http://www.proactive-intl.com 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Andre Garzia]

I am going to create my own software store and will lock steve out of it!

On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 7:27 PM, Richard Gaskin
wrote:

> Is the the future of what our customers will see at our software sites?
>
> 
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
>  LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richard Gaskin]

Is the the future of what our customers will see at our software sites?



--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[François Chaplais]

A very interesting blog post about the Oracle v.s. Google lawsuit (hint: it 
revolves around Java ownership and its impact on android)
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2010/08/14/how-oracle-might-kill-googles-android-and-software-patents-all-at-once/
A word of warning: the author is an Apple fanboy and does not like google. 
However, his perspective is intellectually stimulating (well, at least for me)
Best
François
Le 21 oct. 2010 à 23:05, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :

>> This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be 
>> maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future 
>> versions of Mac OS X. The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 
>> 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue 
>> to be supported and maintained through the standard support 
>> cycles of those products.
> 
> I suspect this is another tremor caused in part by a change in ownership of
> Java.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lynn Fredricks
> President
> Proactive International, LLC
> 
> - Because it is about who you know.(tm)
> http://www.proactive-intl.com 
> 



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[François Chaplais]

For your interest, the TUAW blog post some early reactions from developers to 
the coming of the Mac App store:
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/21/developer-reactions-to-the-mac-app-store/
Much shorter, and authored by a pioneer of iPhone jailbreaking (that is, before 
there was an SDK and an App store), TUAW's own Erica Sadun:
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/10/20/why-the-mac-app-store-rocks-for-developers/
The comparison  of numbers is staggering.
Best,
François
Le 21 oct. 2010 à 22:49, Chipp Walters a écrit :

> Apocalyptic? Not sure that's the right word, unless one's world revolves 
> around Apple and what they will do.
> 
> Consider it was mere months ago when Steve told us all, "Netbooks aren't 
> better than anything, they're just cheap laptops" and yesterday he announces 
> Apple's first netbook. 
> 
> Also from a popular Gadget blog: 
> 
> "The same happened with video iPods and smartphones and tablets too. One day 
> he trashes something... And the next day, that something is the best thing 
> ever. That something being THEIR thing." 
> 
> Seriously, is it too far a stretch to picture Jobs on the stage in the not 
> too distant future saying,
> 
> "Our customers tell us what a great and safe experience it is purchasing 
> their software from the Mac AppStore. And now with over 1 million apps there, 
> we think it's a great idea for everyone to use the AppStore to manage their 
> software collections. Of course, if you really want to, you can install your 
> own unapproved apps, but you should know it now voids our warranty as we 
> cannot be responsible anymore for the safety of the Operating System or the 
> hardware. Besides, you should always know that in our AppStore, 'There's an 
> App for That!' Thanks for all the fantastic support on this and see you in 
> the AppStore!"
> 
> Maybe Apocalyptic is the right word describing the experience-- for the 
> developers. Especially the ones who depend on their direct customer relations 
> to continue to promote their wares.
> 
> 
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
> 
> On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
>> Forgive me, but this view of the future seems apocalyptic.  alternatives 
>> will just fade away.
>>> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be 
> maintained at the same level, and may be removed from future 
> versions of Mac OS X. The Java runtime shipping in Mac OS X 
> 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will continue 
> to be supported and maintained through the standard support 
> cycles of those products.

I suspect this is another tremor caused in part by a change in ownership of
Java.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Proactive International, LLC

- Because it is about who you know.(tm)
http://www.proactive-intl.com 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bob Sneidar]

Your analogy would work only if Apple had announced that if you bought another 
netbook other than an Apple netbook, it would void your iPad warranty. Hmmm... 
seems a little overstated, don't you think? Apple is of course, looking out for 
their own interests. Shafting the vast majority of app developers for the Mac 
is NOT in their best interests. There is no scenario I can envision, by which 
Apple would try to force development for their high end products into a closed 
system that only they had access to. It would be corporate suicide, and Steve, 
whatever else you think of him, is simply not that stupid. 

Bob


On Oct 21, 2010, at 1:49 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Apocalyptic? Not sure that's the right word, unless one's world revolves 
> around Apple and what they will do.
> 
> Consider it was mere months ago when Steve told us all, "Netbooks aren't 
> better than anything, they're just cheap laptops" and yesterday he announces 
> Apple's first netbook. 
> 
> Also from a popular Gadget blog: 
> 
> "The same happened with video iPods and smartphones and tablets too. One day 
> he trashes something... And the next day, that something is the best thing 
> ever. That something being THEIR thing." 
> 
> Seriously, is it too far a stretch to picture Jobs on the stage in the not 
> too distant future saying,
> 
> "Our customers tell us what a great and safe experience it is purchasing 
> their software from the Mac AppStore. And now with over 1 million apps there, 
> we think it's a great idea for everyone to use the AppStore to manage their 
> software collections. Of course, if you really want to, you can install your 
> own unapproved apps, but you should know it now voids our warranty as we 
> cannot be responsible anymore for the safety of the Operating System or the 
> hardware. Besides, you should always know that in our AppStore, 'There's an 
> App for That!' Thanks for all the fantastic support on this and see you in 
> the AppStore!"
> 
> Maybe Apocalyptic is the right word describing the experience-- for the 
> developers. Especially the ones who depend on their direct customer relations 
> to continue to promote their wares.
> 
> 
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
> 
> On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:
> 
>> Forgive me, but this view of the future seems apocalyptic.  alternatives 
>> will just fade away.
>>> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> > As far as I can tell, no, they only offer tools/Web pages 
> that display 
> > statistical data of your sales.
> 
> How would it be possible for a developer to know if someone 
> who calls is actually eligible for technical support?

Most software developers I work with have this to think about, plus the
entire upgrade / upsell chain which requires that you know who your
customers are - the exact data that Apple relies on for its own business.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Proactive International, LLC

- Because it is about who you know.(tm)
http://www.proactive-intl.com 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

Apocalyptic? Not sure that's the right word, unless one's world revolves around 
Apple and what they will do.

Consider it was mere months ago when Steve told us all, "Netbooks aren't better 
than anything, they're just cheap laptops" and yesterday he announces Apple's 
first netbook. 

Also from a popular Gadget blog: 

"The same happened with video iPods and smartphones and tablets too. One day he 
trashes something... And the next day, that something is the best thing ever. 
That something being THEIR thing." 

Seriously, is it too far a stretch to picture Jobs on the stage in the not too 
distant future saying,

"Our customers tell us what a great and safe experience it is purchasing their 
software from the Mac AppStore. And now with over 1 million apps there, we 
think it's a great idea for everyone to use the AppStore to manage their 
software collections. Of course, if you really want to, you can install your 
own unapproved apps, but you should know it now voids our warranty as we cannot 
be responsible anymore for the safety of the Operating System or the hardware. 
Besides, you should always know that in our AppStore, 'There's an App for 
That!' Thanks for all the fantastic support on this and see you in the 
AppStore!"

Maybe Apocalyptic is the right word describing the experience-- for the 
developers. Especially the ones who depend on their direct customer relations 
to continue to promote their wares.


Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:24 PM, Bob Sneidar  wrote:

> Forgive me, but this view of the future seems apocalyptic.  alternatives will 
> just fade away.
>> 
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Maybe I have missed something, but is anyone saying that this 
> will be the ONLY WAY to get apps for Mac? How are they going 
> to pull that off?? They would have to abolish all I/O ports 
> for drives, usb devices and cd/dvd drives. Is this really 
> where we think Apple is going to go? 
> 
> I rather see this as a way that developers will be able to 
> deliver apps made for devices like the iPad to the desktop 
> too. Not a way for Apple to try to force everyone to sell 
> apps through the iStore, which of course everyone can see 
> would kill Apple development of enterprise apps. 

I don't want to polute people with more than they want to read, but Ive
posted my initial feelings here:

http://www.lynnfredricks.com/2010/10/21/mac-app-store-as-an-dangerous-unknow
n/

The Mac App Store is a dangerous unknown. Apple doesn't have to rush
eliminate other alternatives, but instead let the weight of presence in the
OS and the direction of user opinion (like we saw with the Thoughts on Flash
debaucle) move it step by step to an exclusive model and ownership of your
customer relations. Maybe that's not the goal, but the Mac App Store is just
the sort of tool you could use to accomplish that.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Proactive International, LLC

- Because it is about who you know.(tm)
http://www.proactive-intl.com 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Malte Brill]

Hi Francois:

From the releasenotes to said update:

> Java Deprecation
> 
> As of the release of Java for Mac OS X 10.6 Update 3, the version of Java 
> that is ported by Apple, and that ships with Mac OS X, is deprecated.
> 
> This means that the Apple-produced runtime will not be maintained at the same 
> level, and may be removed from future versions of Mac OS X. The Java runtime 
> shipping in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, and Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, will 
> continue to be supported and maintained through the standard support cycles 
> of those products.
> 
Cheers,

Malte

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bob Sneidar]

Forgive me, but this view of the future seems apocalyptic. I never read any of 
this in the book of Revelation. (WHOOPS! Reference to religion!!!) heh heh j/k

"You might be right, but it all hinges on whether or not I presently agree with 
you." 
Quote from the book of Me

Bob


On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:41 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
> > Maybe I have missed something, but is anyone saying that this will
> > be the ONLY WAY to get apps for Mac?
> 
> Not currently.  In fact, Mr. Jobs went out of his way to note that it won't 
> be the only way to get apps.
> 
> But once traction gets hold and the marketing machine ramps up, it'll be 
> clearly known as the only SAFE place to get apps, the only APPROVED place to 
> get apps, the only DESIRABLE place to get apps.
> 
> After that meme takes hold, it won't need to be mandatory.  Other 
> alternatives will just fade away.
> 
> Buying apps from a web site, which has been just fine as the conduit between 
> loyal Mac users and loyal Max developers for more than a decade, will be seen 
> as some sort of ghetto experience.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
> LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[François Chaplais]

Not really; there was an update to Java for mac OS 10.6 that was released today 
or yesterday
the link to the french page is here: 
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL972?viewlocale=fr_FR
Not that I am a java expert, I have never used it to my knowledge. But, well, I 
do the updating...
Best,
François
Le 21 oct. 2010 à 22:04, Malte Brill a écrit :

>> I read somewhere that Java apps would NOT be allowed. Not sure that bodes 
>> well
>> for rev. 
> 
> I think that might be because Java for Mac is deprecated now. As far as I 
> read, Apple will no longer deliver the VM with Mac OsX (Desktop edition) but 
> only with OsX Server.
> 
> http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#/apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-DontLinkElementID_2
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Malte Brill]

> I read somewhere that Java apps would NOT be allowed. Not sure that bodes well
> for rev. 

I think that might be because Java for Mac is deprecated now. As far as I read, 
Apple will no longer deliver the VM with Mac OsX (Desktop edition) but only 
with OsX Server.

http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#releasenotes/Java/JavaSnowLeopardUpdate3LeopardUpdate8RN/NewandNoteworthy/NewandNoteworthy.html#/apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40010380-CH4-DontLinkElementID_2



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[stephen barncard]

I think Java "apps" are not self-contained and require a separate runtime on
the machine.

On 21 October 2010 11:44, Chipp Walters  wrote:

> I read somewhere that Java apps would NOT be allowed. Not sure that bodes
> well for Rev.
>
>
> On Oct 21, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Colin Holgate  wrote:
>
> >  I think that LiveCode standalones ought to come under that ok.
> >
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 



Stephen Barncard
San Francisco Ca. USA

more about sqb  
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> Maybe I have missed something, but is anyone saying that this will
> be the ONLY WAY to get apps for Mac?

Not currently.  In fact, Mr. Jobs went out of his way to note that it 
won't be the only way to get apps.


But once traction gets hold and the marketing machine ramps up, it'll be 
clearly known as the only SAFE place to get apps, the only APPROVED 
place to get apps, the only DESIRABLE place to get apps.


After that meme takes hold, it won't need to be mandatory.  Other 
alternatives will just fade away.


Buying apps from a web site, which has been just fine as the conduit 
between loyal Mac users and loyal Max developers for more than a decade, 
will be seen as some sort of ghetto experience.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Mark Talluto]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 11:23 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Scott Rossi wrote:
> 
>> Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> 
 Do I get to own or have access to the registration data for users of my
 product?
>>> 
>>> Is there anyone here with apps in the current iOS App Store who can
>>> answer that?
>> 
>> As far as I can tell, no, they only offer tools/Web pages that display
>> statistical data of your sales.
> 
> How would it be possible for a developer to know if someone who calls is 
> actually eligible for technical support?


You could request the user to fill out registration info and have the program 
email or ftp the data to you.  This may be required for free tech support.


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Colin Holgate]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> I read somewhere that Java apps would NOT be allowed. Not sure that bodes 
> well for Rev. 

Rev is in Java?



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

I read somewhere that Java apps would NOT be allowed. Not sure that bodes well 
for Rev. 


On Oct 21, 2010, at 1:09 PM, Colin Holgate  wrote:

>  I think that LiveCode standalones ought to come under that ok.
> 
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>>> Is there anyone here with apps in the current iOS App Store who can
>>> answer that?
>> 
>> As far as I can tell, no, they only offer tools/Web pages that display
>> statistical data of your sales.
> 
> How would it be possible for a developer to know if someone who calls is
> actually eligible for technical support?

I am quite a novice in the whole iApp arena, but barring any methods of
cracking I haven't heard about yet, apps are more or less tied to a device
-- you cannot arbitrarily move apps from one device to another, and you
cannot distribute apps outside the app store (aside from testing and limited
distribution apps).  So "presumably", the someone wanting help legitimately
obtained your app.

Your question does raise another question: what about folks who deliver paid
apps with no restrictions on the devices they can run on?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richard Gaskin]

Scott Rossi wrote:


Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Do I get to own or have access to the registration data for users of my
product?


Is there anyone here with apps in the current iOS App Store who can
answer that?


As far as I can tell, no, they only offer tools/Web pages that display
statistical data of your sales.


How would it be possible for a developer to know if someone who calls is 
actually eligible for technical support?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/21/2010 09:15 PM, Jim Sims wrote:

On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:04 PM, Richmond wrote:


market it your way

Sure, that's real easy to do.  f]pfff.

Good luck in that - getting lots of people to see your product is not easy.

At least when VersionTracker and MacUpdate


MacUpdate is still functioning perfectly OK:

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/33042/devawriter


were around you had a couple of central places where users would look for apps. 
You could also play the Mac web sites and blogs to get awareness and exposure 
every time you released a new version.

I have a hard time believing that lots of people are drooling at their chances 
of building a competitor store to go against  the AppStore.

sims




Facebook . . . other "social" networking sites . . . ?

Yahoo groups . . .

Specialist academic Blogs and Lists (e.g. I have plugged my Devawriter 
on the Linguist List)


Mail-bombing (e.g. I have written to the head of about 50 Sanskrit 
departments)


YouTube (nothing like a quick movie of your thing strutting its funky stuff)

Twitter

-

The days of being depndent on only 1 or 2 channels of information are 
long gone.


sincerely, Richmond.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Martin Koob]

Andre Garzia  writes:

> 
> Folks,
> 
> check out: http://www.apple.com/mac/app-store/
> 
> Will our LiveCode apps be featured
> there? So far we do not know since the thing was announced 10 minutes ago,
> but one can only hope!
> 
> Andre
> 

I agree with other comments here that there is a risk that  LiveCode
 Applications may be excluded from the Mac App Store either explicitly 
by a future requirement that only applications developed with XCode 
be included or implicitly by the requirement that a third party 
application's interface elements or behaviours be identical to 
those created by XCode.   

To prevent the second scenario from excluding an application a 
response would be for RunRev to ensure that LiveCode's interface 
elements for Mac OS standalones have feature parity with Mac OS controls. 

This does not prevent the first scenario though.   I wonder if the 
response to a possible requirement for Xcode developed applications 
should be to  establishing a LiveCode App store where Livecode 
Developers could showcase and sell their applications.  This would 
leave you free to use the registration and licencing system,  third 
party installers that you want but still have the advantages offered 
by a congregated application store that would help you market your work.   

Martin Koob


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Jim Sims]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 8:04 PM, Richmond wrote:

> market it your way

Sure, that's real easy to do.  f]pfff.

Good luck in that - getting lots of people to see your product is not easy.

At least when VersionTracker and MacUpdate were around you had a couple of 
central places where users would look for apps. You could also play the Mac web 
sites and blogs to get awareness and exposure every time you released a new 
version.

I have a hard time believing that lots of people are drooling at their chances 
of building a competitor store to go against  the AppStore.

sims





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/21/2010 09:00 PM, Peter Brigham MD wrote:

On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Richmond wrote:


On 10/21/2010 05:39 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Richmond wrote:


On 10/21/2010 10:27 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:
So the problem society has with Apple is not whether it will close 
down OSX,

I think Chipp is right, it will just as soon as it thinks it can.


I think they will end up shooting themselves in the bottom if they 
do this;

sooner or later end-users will work out that a PC for half the price,
running some sort of easily installable desktop Linux (Mint?) at no 
price
at all looks better than an OS tied to hardware tied to dictatorial 
control

about what you can and cannot do with the thing!


Maybe.   The research of Nils Bejerot, Stanley Milgram, and others 
portray a complexity in human nature that may be too 
multidimensional for such rational optimism.


;)

Aah . . . Stanley Milgram; what a guy! I did a year's basic 
Psychology at university too;
several of my firends thought it would be fun to wire the Prof. up to 
a Milgram device

and do things for real . . .  :)


A little-known factoid, even further off-topic: one of Milgram's 
youngest and most vulnerable undergraduate research subjects was 
extremely damaged by Milgram's emotionally abusive experiments. He 
grew up to become...


... the Unibomber.

Karma.

-- Peter




One wonders quite why Stanley Milgram was able to get away with that 
sort of experiment in the

first place?

And just to make things more awkward; one of the topics I had to think 
about as an Undergraduate Philosophy student at Durham in 1983 was 
whether it was ethical to use the published findings of
Dr Mengele's experiments in the Nazi death-camps for future work. What 
is interesting is that
certain biologists and medics did use his findings; their argument being 
that as those results would,
obviously, be unobtainable in today's ethical (??) environment, 
it was acceptable to use them

if they could be used to prevent further human suffering.

Being a "naughty chap" I wrote to a friend of my history teacher, a 
woman who had had experiments
performed on her by Mengele when she was a child (and, unusually, she 
survived) to find out her
opinion. She stated that they should be used as in some tiny way this 
made up for all the suffering

those poor people had to go through.

--

I wonder how Steve Jobs would like to run his focus groups . . .  :)
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Colin Holgate]

The thing about the Ambrosia apps is that they all need to patch the system in 
order to work. It ought to still be possible to make the apps work in a way 
that on first launch they then do the patch, and maybe require a restart. But 
in general I thing the app store would be geared towards apps that are entirely 
standalone. I think that LiveCode standalones ought to come under that ok.



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bob Sneidar]

Wait just a daggum minute. I thought that Apple was building advertising into 
the app model. So how are advertisers going to get the information? Are we 
thinking that ads in the iDevices will not be able to link to a website? How 
about a splash screen on your app asking users to register with their email 
address? There has to be ways to get around this. 

Bob


On Oct 21, 2010, at 10:57 AM, Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>>> Do I get to own or have access to the registration data for users of my
>>> product?
>> 
>> Is there anyone here with apps in the current iOS App Store who can
>> answer that?
> 
> As far as I can tell, no, they only offer tools/Web pages that display
> statistical data of your sales.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi
> Creative Director
> Tactile Media, UX Design
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/21/2010 08:51 PM, Jim Sims wrote:

On Oct 21, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Ambrosia Software president Andrew Welch voiced similar concerns.

   "Ambrosia is certainly interested in the idea of a centralized
   Mac application store,"

With VersionTracker gone, folded into download.com, download.com is abysmal as 
far as I am concerned, there isn't much left.

Apple is stepping in at the right time - for them.

What concerns me most (in addition to not getting customer information!), is 
the consumer of apps/software will probably be expecting iPhone/iPad prices.

When I read a comment that "$1.99 is way too much" for something some guy 
worked really hard at, I shake my head.

This sort of expectation might be carried over - after all, to the consumer it's just 
like the iTunes store - to the "App Store".  You have to sell an awful lot of 
$1.99 apps to make rent money every month.

sims



Well; $1.99 might be all an "also ran" app is worth; if one does a 
cursory search on MacUpdate one finds
all awful lot of "also rans" and an awful lot of apps that do pretty 
much the same thing; therefore if
everybody charges $1.99 you are in a tight corner if your rent money 
depends on that.


I would suppose that the 'trick' (which is no trick at all) is make an 
app that is unique and fills a niche,

and the charge more than $1.99 for it.

Now if some swack lot, such as Apple, are telling you that you can only 
charge $1.99, they are
skimming the cream off that, and they get their sweaty paws on details 
of all who buy your
'thang' it is time to tell them to "boil their heads" and market it your 
way.


AND, should that mean that, opwing to some sort of "berlin Wall' erected 
by Jobs & Co., you
are unable to push your product for Macintosh; dump Macintosh (only 
about 10-15% of the
market) and push at Windows (a big, big chunk of the market, like it or 
not) and at Linux

(getting bigger, especially if Apple turns into North Korea number 2).

---

Of course, "Loony Richmond" is still whispering 'RISC OS' at the 
non-receptive ears of
RunRev; think about it; RISC OS is, no; IS, about 75% of all embedded 
systems!!!


---

While I'm on a roll: anybody out there with an Iyonix, RISC Station or 
even late-model Archimedes

they will send me for the postage . . . Please ?
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Peter Brigham MD]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Richmond wrote:


On 10/21/2010 05:39 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Richmond wrote:


On 10/21/2010 10:27 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:
So the problem society has with Apple is not whether it will  
close down OSX,

I think Chipp is right, it will just as soon as it thinks it can.


I think they will end up shooting themselves in the bottom if they  
do this;
sooner or later end-users will work out that a PC for half the  
price,
running some sort of easily installable desktop Linux (Mint?) at  
no price
at all looks better than an OS tied to hardware tied to  
dictatorial control

about what you can and cannot do with the thing!


Maybe.   The research of Nils Bejerot, Stanley Milgram, and others  
portray a complexity in human nature that may be too  
multidimensional for such rational optimism.


;)

Aah . . . Stanley Milgram; what a guy! I did a year's basic  
Psychology at university too;
several of my firends thought it would be fun to wire the Prof. up  
to a Milgram device

and do things for real . . .  :)


A little-known factoid, even further off-topic: one of Milgram's  
youngest and most vulnerable undergraduate research subjects was  
extremely damaged by Milgram's emotionally abusive experiments. He  
grew up to become...


... the Unibomber.

Karma.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
ppbrig...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bob Sneidar]

Maybe I have missed something, but is anyone saying that this will be the ONLY 
WAY to get apps for Mac? How are they going to pull that off?? They would have 
to abolish all I/O ports for drives, usb devices and cd/dvd drives. Is this 
really where we think Apple is going to go? 

I rather see this as a way that developers will be able to deliver apps made 
for devices like the iPad to the desktop too. Not a way for Apple to try to 
force everyone to sell apps through the iStore, which of course everyone can 
see would kill Apple development of enterprise apps. 

Bob


On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:01 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Lynn Fredricks wrote:
> 
>>> I went to find out, and they provide a link, but apparently
>>> the Mac Dev Program now requires a fee like the iOS program,
>>> so you need to give them money in order to find out if it's
>>> worth giving them money.
>>> 
>>> I gotta say that fills me with a certain envy:  I wish I had
>>> what it takes to get people to pay me before they're able to
>>> find out whether they want to pay me. ;)
>> 
>> Yes, indeed!
>> 
>> Some rumor has been going around that apps cant support auto updating or
>> serial key type licensing.
> 
> Can't say.  In order to download the document you have to agree to an NDA.  I 
> could tell you, but then I'd have to kill myself.
> 
> I imagine Gruber will get a free pass on discussing this as he has with other 
> NDA'd things in the past, and apparently TUAW has risked posting some tidbits 
> (thanks Scott) like this prohibition:
> 
>   - It require license keys or implements its own copy protection
> 
> In that one line the cost of making apps for the App Store goes up for all 
> multi-platform developers.  Most of us have reg schemes that currently work 
> on all platforms, but with the App Store, we'll need to have two different 
> methods of product security: one just for Apple and another for the entire 
> rest of the world.
> 
> 
> This prohibition is just weird:
> 
>  - It has metadata that mentions the name of any other computer
>platform
> 
> Are they that scared of Ubuntu? ("Dear Steve:  It's almost Halloween; 
> U-Booh!-ntu!")  :)
> 
> Or are we not allowed to let our customers know that our app being 
> cross-platform is a valuable feature for use in their workplace?
> 
> What exactly constitutes "metadata" in that context?
> 
> 
> This one may require RunRev to step up their game on a few details (author's 
> own comment included):
> 
>  -  It changes the native user interface elements or behaviors of
> Mac OS X (Well, that just wiped out 90% of the best Mac apps
> in a single, flaming fist punch.)
> 
> Yep.
> 
> Looks like staying in the Mac game is about to get more expensive for 
> everyone, from tool makers to developers and to some degree consumers as that 
> 30% tax starts to get spread around.
> 
> I feel bad for game developers; it's going to be hard for them to survive 
> outside of the App Store once the momentum takes hold.
> 
> Fortunately most of my clients are in markets too vertical for the App Store 
> to make much of a difference,  and our revenues tend to reflect general 
> market share percentages anyway (m...@5.7%) so they can afford to put off 
> those expenses for a while.
> 
> 
>> Is is possible with iOS apps to require registration? I would hate to think
>> that Apple should have my customer information but not be allowed to know
>> who my customers are, or not.
> 
> How does that work with iOS?
> 
> It's hard to imagine they could be so Draconian.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
> LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> Do I get to own or have access to the registration data for users of my
>> product?
> 
> Is there anyone here with apps in the current iOS App Store who can
> answer that?

As far as I can tell, no, they only offer tools/Web pages that display
statistical data of your sales.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Jim Sims]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 7:36 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Ambrosia Software president Andrew Welch voiced similar concerns.
> 
>   "Ambrosia is certainly interested in the idea of a centralized
>   Mac application store,"

With VersionTracker gone, folded into download.com, download.com is abysmal as 
far as I am concerned, there isn't much left.

Apple is stepping in at the right time - for them.

What concerns me most (in addition to not getting customer information!), is 
the consumer of apps/software will probably be expecting iPhone/iPad prices. 

When I read a comment that "$1.99 is way too much" for something some guy 
worked really hard at, I shake my head.

This sort of expectation might be carried over - after all, to the consumer 
it's just like the iTunes store - to the "App Store".  You have to sell an 
awful lot of $1.99 apps to make rent money every month.

sims





___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richard Gaskin]

Lynn Fredricks wrote:


I think there is a simple question to ask -

Do I get to own or have access to the registration data for users of my
product?


Is there anyone here with apps in the current iOS App Store who can 
answer that?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richard Gaskin]

Developers chime in on the implications of the Mac App Store:

   Paul Kafasis, CEO of Rogue Amoeba, a developer of Mac audio
   software, expressed some reservations about the terms.
   "Thirty percent isn't particularly reasonable, but it's not
   unexpected either," he said in an e-mail. "For access to
   almost 50 million Mac users, with just a couple clicks,
   it's at least in the ballpark. That said, with direct
   downloads, most developers pay 3-10% in credit card fees
   and processing. 30% is quite a bit more, and for what
   exactly?"

   At the moment, Rogue Amoeba is waiting to see how the Mac App
   Store is received. "It's certainly something we're looking at,
   but the restrictions and guidelines they've published are
   onerous at best," said Kafasis.

   Ambrosia Software president Andrew Welch voiced similar concerns.

   "Ambrosia is certainly interested in the idea of a centralized
   Mac application store," he said in an e-mail. "However the
   restrictions imposed by Apple on the applications may make it
   impossible for a number of our applications to be submitted."




--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/21/2010 07:16 PM, Lynn Fredricks wrote:

Is is possible with iOS apps to require registration? I

would hate to

think that Apple should have my customer information but not be
allowed to know who my customers are, or not.

How does that work with iOS?

It's hard to imagine they could be so Draconian.

We are just finalizing our iValentina for iPhone, which is going to be
released for free. Our approach to iPhone has simply to be to give away a
bit of software that doesn't directly touch on our profitability model but
rather encourage users towards buying what we do sell.

I think there is a simple question to ask -

Do I get to own or have access to the registration data for users of my
product?

If the answer is Apple does, but you don't, it is 100% contrary to where
we've been going with software sales since the floppy days.



yes; this is monkey business; if I have worked my bottom off on a piece 
of software

I am hardly keen to allow somebody else either access to or ownership of my
user database; as, certainly, they will be using that information for 
their own ends

rather than mine.

When my Devawriter Pro is, finally, released, you will have to come to 
me to get it, and I
will keep your details close to my chest so that I can "fool" you into 
buying more of my
stuff rather than letting Apple, Snapple or Frapple peddle their stuff 
to you.

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/21/2010 05:39 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Richmond wrote:


On 10/21/2010 10:27 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:
So the problem society has with Apple is not whether it will close 
down OSX,

I think Chipp is right, it will just as soon as it thinks it can.


I think they will end up shooting themselves in the bottom if they do 
this;

sooner or later end-users will work out that a PC for half the price,
running some sort of easily installable desktop Linux (Mint?) at no 
price
at all looks better than an OS tied to hardware tied to dictatorial 
control

about what you can and cannot do with the thing!


Maybe.   The research of Nils Bejerot, Stanley Milgram, and others 
portray a complexity in human nature that may be too multidimensional 
for such rational optimism.


;)

 Aah . . . Stanley Milgram; what a guy! I did a year's basic Psychology 
at university too;
several of my firends thought it would be fun to wire the Prof. up to a 
Milgram device

and do things for real . . .  :)
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Lynn Fredricks]

> > Is is possible with iOS apps to require registration? I 
> would hate to 
> > think that Apple should have my customer information but not be 
> > allowed to know who my customers are, or not.
> 
> How does that work with iOS?
> 
> It's hard to imagine they could be so Draconian.

We are just finalizing our iValentina for iPhone, which is going to be
released for free. Our approach to iPhone has simply to be to give away a
bit of software that doesn't directly touch on our profitability model but
rather encourage users towards buying what we do sell.

I think there is a simple question to ask -

Do I get to own or have access to the registration data for users of my
product?

If the answer is Apple does, but you don't, it is 100% contrary to where
we've been going with software sales since the floppy days.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

RE: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond wrote:


On 10/21/2010 10:27 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:

So the problem society has with Apple is not whether it will close down OSX,
I think Chipp is right, it will just as soon as it thinks it can.


I think they will end up shooting themselves in the bottom if they do this;
sooner or later end-users will work out that a PC for half the price,
running some sort of easily installable desktop Linux (Mint?) at no price
at all looks better than an OS tied to hardware tied to dictatorial control
about what you can and cannot do with the thing!


Maybe.   The research of Nils Bejerot, Stanley Milgram, and others 
portray a complexity in human nature that may be too multidimensional 
for such rational optimism.


;)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 LiveCode Journal blog: http://LiveCodejournal.com/blog.irv
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Richmond]

On 10/21/2010 10:27 AM, Peter Alcibiades wrote:


Chipp Walters wrote:


Jeez, how long before you have to JAILBREAK your Mac in order to put
your
own programs on it? I believe it's just around the corner..haven't been
wrong yet.


We all have to decide, its both a personal thing and a society thing.  The
personal thing
is do we want to do what we want with the devices we have bought, or do we
want
the people who sold them to us to tell us what we can do.

The social thing is, the PC/Smartphone/tabet is moving to becoming the main
vehicle
by which people get access to content - books, press, etc.  The borders
between
what is an app and what is content are blurring, and increasingly control of
the
app is a way of controlling the content that app gets for the user.  We have
to decide
whether we want this access to be controlled by corporations, or if we want
it to be open.

So the problem society has with Apple is not whether it will close down OSX,
I think
Chipp is right, it will just as soon as it thinks it can.


I think they will end up shooting themselves in the bottom if they do this;
sooner or later end-users will work out that a PC for half the price, 
running some sort
of easily installable desktop Linux (Mint?) at no price at all looks 
better than an
OS tied to hardware tied to dictatorial control about what you can and 
cannot do with

the thing!

I am inclined to belive that Jobs, while, possibly, suffering from some 
sort of

megalomania, cannot believe that he has a sufficient brainwashed following
to allow him to dictate terms to people who pay him.

When it comes down to things, one has to keep the customer happy, unless,
of course the "cult of Macintosh" is far more cult-like than we all 
realised.


However, if you think I'm going to start peddling flowers in airports 
for Steve
Jobs you have another thing coming: done that once, and once bitten, 
twice shy!



   Its what the
effect on society will be if that
model is generally adopted.  By, for instance, the main on-line bookseller,
in an era
when e-books are the only way to get lots of titles.


Well; as an ex-moonie once remarked to me; out in the "real world" there 
are plays to
go to, films to watch, books to read, flowers to smell that don't 
require the imprimatur
of "Hoo Flung Dung". And, who, without being brainwashed is going to opt 
for a

restricted view of things?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticket_To_Heaven

Out in the Open Source Software world the likes of Steve Jobs and Bill 
Gates can go

and "boil their heads".

So; if I want to read an e-book I am, obviously (unless I am 
hypnotised), going to make sure
I have some sort of machine to read the thing, and by 'thing', I mean 
ANY e-book I want
to read, not only those Jobsy or Gatesy have decided is suitable for my 
tiny mind.


[ Just the other day I found an illegal copy of 'Dr Zhivago' (in 
Russian) that had been smuggled
out of the Soviet Union in 1978 by my late Father-in-law; he risked 
prison and beatings for that! ]


Down the line . . .

   . . . This does mean that the RunRev / LiveCode people will have to 
stop looking at their Linux
variant as "the odd one out" and start treating it equally to the Mac 
and Win variants; and, mayhap,

in due course, put it in pole-position.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Chipp Walters]

From a posting on my company blog. Some points made with help and ideas from 
this list. Thanks to you all.

---

Apple really is a remarkable company. Without a doubt, they provide flagship 
innovation and thought leadership for the rest of the industry and the world 
(Google, are you listening?). This was again demonstrated yesterday in their 
very cogent and finely tuned presentation of their new best of breed MacBooks.

Lost among the hoopla of the new sleek laptops, and preview of new Apple apps 
and OSX Lion are a couple announcements which maybe larger issues than first 
they seem.

The more obvious of the two is the announcement of the new Mac AppStore, where 
customers will be able to purchase Mac desktop apps directly from Apple. I 
actually predicted this earlier this year on a forum, which when you stop and 
think, it's no big deal as this is pretty much a no-brainer marketing decision 
by Apple. 

On first look, this would seem a natural extension to the iOS AppStore which 
has been hugely successful-- specifically for Apple. On closer examination, 
many customers are non-plussed regarding the iPhone app store, with it's lack 
of features, focussing only on the top selling few apps-- even though Apple 
claims hundreds and hundreds of thousands of apps available. One problem, just 
try finding a specific app. There's no keyword indexing in the AppStore, so 
unless you know the name of the app you want to buy, you're sadly out of luck. 
The proverbial needle app in the haystore.

The Mac AppStore and it's inevitable downward price pressure along with Apple's 
30% split spells problems for developers, especially considering Apple has only 
20% marketshare in the US, even less in the world. This is certainly not like 
the iPhone, where Apple is the big gorilla and there is a captive audience. 
Furthermore, developers like myself are used to creating apps which can be 
updated quickly and on OUR schedule, not Apple's. Not to mention Mac AppStore 
developers will have to use Apple's licensing and copy protection schemes. Ugh. 
Oh, and did I mention you also have to pay Apple a developer fee? So, they can 
sell YOUR software? Sheesh.

Also of issue is the simple fact Apple has a history of changing once, then 
twice, then anytime they like, their own licensing and submission policies. So, 
a developer may find an app they have been working on and updating for years is 
no longer allowed, because it conflicts with some new licensing policy just 
announced. Or even worse, you're declined for conflicting with a not yet 
announced Apple software product, or not using the right compiler, or you have 
the wrong politics. Sadly, it all HAS happened before.

Also I've read Apple will provide the terms under which you can talk about the 
features of your application, only just don't mention it will run on other 
OS'es. And speaking of talking about the Mac AppStore, if you're a developer 
you can't. The NDA prohibits talking to anyone about it. Draconian? You decide.

Of course the counterpoint to all of this is you don't have to sell through the 
Mac AppStore. At least not for now. But, I would ask how long before you'll 
have to jailbreak your own Mac to run "third party apps?" Don't laugh. No one 
was laughing when in one fell swoop this past summer Apple wiped out thousands 
of developers and their chosen tools with a single paragraph change in their 
license. The Mac AppStore is Step One. Just like hardware and software, the 
policies are migrating from Mac to iPhone to iPad and now back to Mac. Steve 
actually drew it up just that way during the presentation. The theme was "Back 
to the Mac."

And now for the second issue, the lack of a FaceTime app for PC's. So, in case 
you don't know, Apple created this very cool futuristic Dick Tracy application 
called FaceTime, and it allows those with an iPhone 4 to be able to video chat 
with each other, as long as they are on a WiFi network. This is cool.

Earlier today, Apple announced FaceTime for Mac. But not for PC. I'm wondering 
about the implied message here? My take is Apple is creating a strong case Mac 
users should buy iPhones and video chat with them, but if you're a PC user, 
your options are limited. Perhaps people will start to associate iPhones only 
for Mac users, which surely is detrimental to Apple and leaves the door wide 
open for Android and others. Of course this assumes Google could one day get 
their act enough together to actually compete technology-wise with Apple. 
Perhaps a pipe dream. Just like an Android iPad killer, I'll believe it when I 
see it.

Congrats to Apple on another superbly crafted and slick presentation. Lots of 
cools stuff. Thankfully I'm not wearing my Gruber Googles.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Peter Alcibiades]

Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
> 
> Jeez, how long before you have to JAILBREAK your Mac in order to put
> your
> own programs on it? I believe it's just around the corner..haven't been
> wrong yet.
> 

We all have to decide, its both a personal thing and a society thing.  The
personal thing
is do we want to do what we want with the devices we have bought, or do we
want
the people who sold them to us to tell us what we can do.

The social thing is, the PC/Smartphone/tabet is moving to becoming the main
vehicle
by which people get access to content - books, press, etc.  The borders
between
what is an app and what is content are blurring, and increasingly control of
the
app is a way of controlling the content that app gets for the user.  We have
to decide
whether we want this access to be controlled by corporations, or if we want
it to be open.

So the problem society has with Apple is not whether it will close down OSX,
I think 
Chipp is right, it will just as soon as it thinks it can.  Its what the
effect on society will be if that
model is generally adopted.  By, for instance, the main on-line bookseller,
in an era
when e-books are the only way to get lots of titles.

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/OT-Mac-App-Store-tp3004425p3005128.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Jim Sims]

On Oct 21, 2010, at 3:01 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Looks like staying in the Mac game is about to get more expensive for 
> everyone, from tool makers to developers and to some degree consumers as that 
> 30% tax starts to get spread around.

If this ends up like iPhone/iPad apps then prices drop to 99¢  for that app you 
spent months building. Then Uncle Steve takes his 30% - You get about 70¢ when 
you sell one. A few days go by and your app is buried under ten thousand other 
apps.

This does not sound like it's worth the effort.

sims



___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Bill Vlahos]

I also thought this was going to happen and agree that it makes a lot of sense.

However, I don't see Apple ever locking out other applications. This is just a 
great way to get them.

Bill Vlahos
_
InfoWallet (http://www.infowallet.com) is about keeping your important life 
information with you, accessible, and secure.

On Oct 20, 2010, at 6:43 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Wow, even though many scoffed, I predicted this would happen on the
> improve-list only a few months ago. That's a big camel's nose peeking in
> under the tent.
> 
> Jeez, how long before you have to JAILBREAK your Mac in order to put your
> own programs on it? I believe it's just around the corner..haven't been
> wrong yet.
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

Re: [OT] Mac App Store

[Andre Garzia]

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Monte Goulding <
mo...@sweattechnologies.com> wrote:

> > Wow, even though many scoffed, I predicted this would happen on the
> > improve-list only a few months ago. That's a big camel's nose peeking in
> > under the tent.
> >
> > Jeez, how long before you have to JAILBREAK your Mac in order to put your
> > own programs on it? I believe it's just around the corner..haven't been
> > wrong yet.
>
> I certainly hope your wrong there Chipp. I'm sure it would be a disaster
> for everyone including Apple.
>
> I wonder when they are planning to change the name of iTunes to something
> that represents what it does? The other thing I'm wondering is given iTunes
> runs on Windows is if they have realised they could sell Windows apps
> through this thing?
>

Folks,

I will probably be sued for this but I am going to break my NDA right now
and tell that they are going to change the name of iTunes on Mac OS X Lion
to iLock

:-P



>
> Cheers
>
> Monte___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
___
use-revolution mailing list
use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
preferences:
http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution