Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 15/05/2010 19:07, stephen barncard wrote:

In North America, the words *Bung* and *Bang* have very different meanings.
It's like seeing 'bloody' all over the place to a UK'er.   It bugs me every
time. I get bad visual images.

Our "Bung" is your "Bloody", buddy.

Just thought I'd remind you.



You are not reminding me; you a teaching me, because I did not
know that.

Notwithstanding; Thank you for reminding me - I shall avoid that
word in future . . .  :)

As a person who believes the 'UK' to be an illegal entity created
after our legal monarch (James VII) was expelled from the
British Isles; I jalouse at the term "UK'er". I am either a Scot,
an Anglo-Scot, or at worst British.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[stephen barncard]

In North America, the words *Bung* and *Bang* have very different meanings.
It's like seeing 'bloody' all over the place to a UK'er.   It bugs me every
time. I get bad visual images.

Our "Bung" is your "Bloody", buddy.

Just thought I'd remind you.



On 15 May 2010 02:38, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

>
>>>
> I have been banging on about sound export for years:
>
>
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 15/05/2010 12:32, René Micout wrote:

I agree !
+ music (Midi ?) functions

Le 14 mai 2010 à 00:16, Robert Mann a écrit :


I would prefer that a minimal audio/video library be made, like the datagrid
enhancement of last year (simple fade in and out, cross fademix, minimal
reverb, tone correction and normalization) and possibility to ouput a
compressed quicktime format. It is important to be able to produce good
quality audio/video by program too since runrev claims to be a media
platform.


I have been banging on about sound export for years:

http://forums.runrev.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5164
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

I agree !
+ music (Midi ?) functions

Le 14 mai 2010 à 00:16, Robert Mann a écrit :

> I would prefer that a minimal audio/video library be made, like the datagrid
> enhancement of last year (simple fade in and out, cross fademix, minimal
> reverb, tone correction and normalization) and possibility to ouput a
> compressed quicktime format. It is important to be able to produce good
> quality audio/video by program too since runrev claims to be a media
> platform.

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[J. Landman Gay]

Robert Mann wrote:

Jacqueline, let me take a precise example.. i'took a license for sygodact.
It's an "old" CGI stack. So I had to install an "old" runrev engine in the
CGI folder. It would be simpler if the new on-rev engine accepted stacks
like the old one : 


Thanks, I understand what you mean now. The good news is that today's 
newsletter says that what you want to do with iRev is planned. :) 
Eventually iRev server will work with stacks.


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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Robert Mann]

Jacqueline, let me take a precise example.. i'took a license for sygodact.
It's an "old" CGI stack. So I had to install an "old" runrev engine in the
CGI folder. It would be simpler if the new on-rev engine accepted stacks
like the old one : 

- It would make it easier for you to promote Zygodact. It would allow
revIgniter to sell his what seems (not yet digged into it enough) great
framework. And Andre Garzia to promote a nice tutorial about the basic of
CMS. And thus creating a kind of market because others might like/want to
produce nice tools... that would in the end make it easier for the whole lot
to produce more things. I do beleive that sharing things here and there and
"selling" libraries at a reasonnable "friendly" price is a great benefit for
all of us potentially.

- Lastly, if I go and see a potential client, and promote the on-rev server
technology offering to build their site. I'd rather leave on their server my
work as a protected stack rather than a bunch of .irev files, with which I'm
happy on my personnal on-rev sand box server.

Until then on-rev will only be useful for developpers themselves or their
hosted clients sites. It smells a little bit "closed shop". I personnaly
would hesitate as a client to be locked in 100%.

Unless you present it no more as site building and hosting but as a
"communication on the web service" like Rodéo.. !

But I beleive that there is a nice intermediate niche of CMS sites to be
really adapted to users but more efficiently with on-rev xtalk. And for that
having irev-cgi stacks running on on-rev servers would be, for me, the
starter sign!




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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[David Bovill]

Pretty much agree with everything you say here Robert - especially about
revWeb - community provided JavaScript integration libraries are what we
need.

On 13 May 2010 23:16, Robert Mann  wrote:

>
> The recent change in iphone policy and runrev plans have shaken my
> strategic
> tree over here in France.
>
> So i decided not to wait any longer for the ipad dream, and to launch my
> first app as mac and windows desktop !! I also decided to dig javascript as
> it has become so central nowadays; being at the heart of webBrowsers.
> Wanted
> to share views on that :
>
> I identified SproutCore framework and wondered if Jerry is working with
> that
> kind of framework!?
>
> It seems there is now 3 approaches to javascript-webapps :
> - "thin" client (all done on server side, eg that standard dynamic CMS
> sites
> on-rev excells at)
> - "fat" client (static HTML5 CSS with lots of Javascript all around that
> can
> directly interact with data servers, like SproutCore)
> - and.. a "sportive" approach.. which I thought off with on-rev, which is a
> dynamic CMS using .irev scripts the most and as little javascript as
> possible, and possibly jQuery scripts to keep cross-browser
> compatibility...
>
>  .. and that is where RevIgniter, which I found so impressive seem to go! :
>
> "This version includes a new library,
> which lets you write jQuery code for event handling,
> animation and Ajax interactions using revTalk."
>
> Now sproutCOre has a touch librairy and an IDE just out of the oven... and
> with phoneGap still being ok with apple new strategy.. it seems like an
> interesting doable route for mainstream information orientated iphone apps.
> [and we'll soon see what rodeo brings in that arena too!]
>
> I'll be testing those 2 frameworks shortly and let know.. and of course any
> views, maybe on a separate thread?
>
>
> --
> as far as the main subject of this thread was... Kevin's annoucement,
>
> to make it short : I'm ok not to have any money back from the mobile
> program
> (to be crude about it...) BUT I would like A) to get ANDROID mobile instead
> of iPhone (seems fair! eventhough i'll ditch my dream regarding iPad).
>
> If we get maemo, window mobile and android : we'll be kings! and thankfull
> to runrev!! Because if ever one wants to cover the whole lot of mobiles,
> javascript and HTML open up : iPhone, webOs, and Blackberry.. another good
> reason to consider javascript as language n°2 as a complement to xTalk!
>
> and B) Also just ONE MORE STEP for the on-rev : the possibility to have
> closed STACKS instead of opened .irev so that a market can develop there
> (this is a year long awaited request!)
>
> To my view the revWeb plugin is kind of useless road which I would not
> pursue at great expense, since javascript seems to provide the fuel for
> webapps now (demos at SproutCore). I must was enthousiastic at first but
> just cannot make it to rely on that one.
>
> I would prefer that a minimal audio/video library be made, like the
> datagrid
> enhancement of last year (simple fade in and out, cross fademix, minimal
> reverb, tone correction and normalization) and possibility to ouput a
> compressed quicktime format. It is important to be able to produce good
> quality audio/video by program too since runrev claims to be a media
> platform.
>
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Thoughts-on-Kevin-s-announcement-tp2172675p2215870.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[J. Landman Gay]

Robert Mann wrote:

I would like A) to get ANDROID mobile instead of iPhone


Yes, that's the plan. Attention is now going to Android and you will see 
that next.



and B) Also just ONE MORE STEP for the on-rev : the possibility to have
closed STACKS instead of opened .irev


I'm not sure what you mean. No one else can see your irev scripts on the 
server. Can you explain?


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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

Robert,

We are looking at all of the frameworks. We started exploring SproutCore a few 
weeks ago.

With respect to Rodeo, we want to keep our app pages as lean as possible, so 
use of frameworks will by necessity have to be discrete.

Sarah and I have been tuning the Roadmap to bring the release date closer. 
Having fun with this.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 13, 2010, at 5:16 PM, Robert Mann  wrote:

> 
> The recent change in iphone policy and runrev plans have shaken my strategic
> tree over here in France.
> 
> So i decided not to wait any longer for the ipad dream, and to launch my
> first app as mac and windows desktop !! I also decided to dig javascript as
> it has become so central nowadays; being at the heart of webBrowsers. Wanted
> to share views on that :
> 
> I identified SproutCore framework and wondered if Jerry is working with that
> kind of framework!?
> 
> It seems there is now 3 approaches to javascript-webapps :
> - "thin" client (all done on server side, eg that standard dynamic CMS sites
> on-rev excells at)
> - "fat" client (static HTML5 CSS with lots of Javascript all around that can
> directly interact with data servers, like SproutCore)
> - and.. a "sportive" approach.. which I thought off with on-rev, which is a
> dynamic CMS using .irev scripts the most and as little javascript as
> possible, and possibly jQuery scripts to keep cross-browser compatibility...
> 
> .. and that is where RevIgniter, which I found so impressive seem to go! :
> 
> "This version includes a new library, 
> which lets you write jQuery code for event handling, 
> animation and Ajax interactions using revTalk."
> 
> Now sproutCOre has a touch librairy and an IDE just out of the oven... and
> with phoneGap still being ok with apple new strategy.. it seems like an
> interesting doable route for mainstream information orientated iphone apps.
> [and we'll soon see what rodeo brings in that arena too!]
> 
> I'll be testing those 2 frameworks shortly and let know.. and of course any
> views, maybe on a separate thread?
> 
> --
> as far as the main subject of this thread was... Kevin's annoucement, 
> 
> to make it short : I'm ok not to have any money back from the mobile program
> (to be crude about it...) BUT I would like A) to get ANDROID mobile instead
> of iPhone (seems fair! eventhough i'll ditch my dream regarding iPad).
> 
> If we get maemo, window mobile and android : we'll be kings! and thankfull
> to runrev!! Because if ever one wants to cover the whole lot of mobiles,
> javascript and HTML open up : iPhone, webOs, and Blackberry.. another good
> reason to consider javascript as language n°2 as a complement to xTalk!
> 
> and B) Also just ONE MORE STEP for the on-rev : the possibility to have
> closed STACKS instead of opened .irev so that a market can develop there
> (this is a year long awaited request!)
> 
> To my view the revWeb plugin is kind of useless road which I would not
> pursue at great expense, since javascript seems to provide the fuel for
> webapps now (demos at SproutCore). I must was enthousiastic at first but
> just cannot make it to rely on that one.
> 
> I would prefer that a minimal audio/video library be made, like the datagrid
> enhancement of last year (simple fade in and out, cross fademix, minimal
> reverb, tone correction and normalization) and possibility to ouput a
> compressed quicktime format. It is important to be able to produce good
> quality audio/video by program too since runrev claims to be a media
> platform.
> 
> 
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Thoughts-on-Kevin-s-announcement-tp2172675p2215870.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Robert Mann]

The recent change in iphone policy and runrev plans have shaken my strategic
tree over here in France.

So i decided not to wait any longer for the ipad dream, and to launch my
first app as mac and windows desktop !! I also decided to dig javascript as
it has become so central nowadays; being at the heart of webBrowsers. Wanted
to share views on that :

I identified SproutCore framework and wondered if Jerry is working with that
kind of framework!?

It seems there is now 3 approaches to javascript-webapps :
- "thin" client (all done on server side, eg that standard dynamic CMS sites
on-rev excells at)
- "fat" client (static HTML5 CSS with lots of Javascript all around that can
directly interact with data servers, like SproutCore)
- and.. a "sportive" approach.. which I thought off with on-rev, which is a
dynamic CMS using .irev scripts the most and as little javascript as
possible, and possibly jQuery scripts to keep cross-browser compatibility...

 .. and that is where RevIgniter, which I found so impressive seem to go! :

"This version includes a new library, 
which lets you write jQuery code for event handling, 
animation and Ajax interactions using revTalk."

Now sproutCOre has a touch librairy and an IDE just out of the oven... and
with phoneGap still being ok with apple new strategy.. it seems like an
interesting doable route for mainstream information orientated iphone apps.
[and we'll soon see what rodeo brings in that arena too!]

I'll be testing those 2 frameworks shortly and let know.. and of course any
views, maybe on a separate thread?

--
as far as the main subject of this thread was... Kevin's annoucement, 

to make it short : I'm ok not to have any money back from the mobile program
(to be crude about it...) BUT I would like A) to get ANDROID mobile instead
of iPhone (seems fair! eventhough i'll ditch my dream regarding iPad).

If we get maemo, window mobile and android : we'll be kings! and thankfull
to runrev!! Because if ever one wants to cover the whole lot of mobiles,
javascript and HTML open up : iPhone, webOs, and Blackberry.. another good
reason to consider javascript as language n°2 as a complement to xTalk!

and B) Also just ONE MORE STEP for the on-rev : the possibility to have
closed STACKS instead of opened .irev so that a market can develop there
(this is a year long awaited request!)

To my view the revWeb plugin is kind of useless road which I would not
pursue at great expense, since javascript seems to provide the fuel for
webapps now (demos at SproutCore). I must was enthousiastic at first but
just cannot make it to rely on that one.

I would prefer that a minimal audio/video library be made, like the datagrid
enhancement of last year (simple fade in and out, cross fademix, minimal
reverb, tone correction and normalization) and possibility to ouput a
compressed quicktime format. It is important to be able to produce good
quality audio/video by program too since runrev claims to be a media
platform.


-- 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

Ian,

Well said and accurate. 

As regards the Rodeo server load and saving...

Saving Rodeo code from either the Rodeo desktop or iPad IDE will result in 
sending it to the server where it will be rendered into viewable web app pages. 
The On-Rev server is surprising fast.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 13, 2010, at 5:13 AM, Ian Wood  wrote:

> Presumably Jerry is asleep at the moment but from what I've read and 
> watched...
> 
> Rodeo is written in Rev and creates *online* HTML webapps, hosted on On-Rev. 
> Xcode is not involved in the end-user's workflow at all*. The 'originally 
> written in' clause is irrelevant because all that ends up being accessed by 
> someone using a Rodeo-created webapp is HTML/CSS/JS.
> 
> Basically, using Rev's strengths in text/file manipulation to generate all 
> the relevant web files from a Rev-like syntax. What I'm not sure of is 
> whether the Rodeo service is set up to generate the web files on-the-fly or 
> to compile them when you finish editing an app. Presumably the second option, 
> or the server load would get a bit heavy.
> 
> Ian
> 
> * Jerry has spoken about a future possibility of advising authors on 
> PhoneGap-style wrapping of webapps for submission to Apple, but again all the 
> code is processed within Webkit and therefore bypasses the restrictive parts 
> of the SDK agreement.
> 
> 
> On 13 May 2010, at 10:55, David Bovill wrote:
> 
>> I'm sort of assuming that Rodeo is an app written in Cocoa Touch/Objective
>> C/Xcode which reads and writes structured data to the web server. You
>> therefore have an authoring app and a web service. The web service is able
>> to customize an Xcode project, and therefore create an app from this data
>> for you, which you then aim to submit to the App store.
>> 
>> Questions:
>> 
>>  - Is this right?
>>  - Is this not simply using web services to do the same thing as any other
>>  framework that automatically generates Objective C for Xcode - and therfore
>>  "could" fall foul of the "originally written" clause on the new license?
> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Ian Wood]

Presumably Jerry is asleep at the moment but from what I've read and  
watched...


Rodeo is written in Rev and creates *online* HTML webapps, hosted on  
On-Rev. Xcode is not involved in the end-user's workflow at all*. The  
'originally written in' clause is irrelevant because all that ends up  
being accessed by someone using a Rodeo-created webapp is HTML/CSS/JS.


Basically, using Rev's strengths in text/file manipulation to generate  
all the relevant web files from a Rev-like syntax. What I'm not sure  
of is whether the Rodeo service is set up to generate the web files on- 
the-fly or to compile them when you finish editing an app. Presumably  
the second option, or the server load would get a bit heavy.


Ian

* Jerry has spoken about a future possibility of advising authors on  
PhoneGap-style wrapping of webapps for submission to Apple, but again  
all the code is processed within Webkit and therefore bypasses the  
restrictive parts of the SDK agreement.



On 13 May 2010, at 10:55, David Bovill wrote:

I'm sort of assuming that Rodeo is an app written in Cocoa Touch/ 
Objective

C/Xcode which reads and writes structured data to the web server. You
therefore have an authoring app and a web service. The web service  
is able
to customize an Xcode project, and therefore create an app from this  
data

for you, which you then aim to submit to the App store.

Questions:

  - Is this right?
  - Is this not simply using web services to do the same thing as  
any other
  framework that automatically generates Objective C for Xcode - and  
therfore
  "could" fall foul of the "originally written" clause on the new  
license?


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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[David Bovill]

Jerry - it would be good to outline a little more clearly how Rodeo works /
fits into the picture of how to develop apps on iPhone for Rev developers.
I'm not clear - so I guess perhaps others are not.

At present you have to make iPhone apps using either:

   1. Cocoa Touch  and
Objective Cusing Xcode and
the the iPhone
   SDK 
   2. Use open web standards and Xcode with or without open source
   frameworks such as
PhoneGap
   3. Other?

You could also just create iPhone tailored web sites (with or without
JavaScript frameworks to help out):

   - http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10295121-37.html
   -
   
http://www.mobiletopsoft.com/board/7600/google-voice-web-app-now-available-to-iphone-and-webos.html

I'm sort of assuming that Rodeo is an app written in Cocoa Touch/Objective
C/Xcode which reads and writes structured data to the web server. You
therefore have an authoring app and a web service. The web service is able
to customize an Xcode project, and therefore create an app from this data
for you, which you then aim to submit to the App store.

Questions:

   - Is this right?
   - Is this not simply using web services to do the same thing as any other
   framework that automatically generates Objective C for Xcode - and therfore
   "could" fall foul of the "originally written" clause on the new license?

I am trying to choose between the web app approach, the PhoneGap approach
and Rodeo - thanks
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[Mark Wieder]

Jacque-

Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 3:00:13 PM, you wrote:

> Hard to top those, but...I just got a new phone line and the caller ID
> info is showing up as "Gay Jacqueline". I think I need to change that.

...toujours gai, archy...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[Richmond Mathewson]

 "Die fröhliche Wissenschaft":

"The Gay Science" was about poetry
and the idea of power.

It has also been translated as "The Joyous
Wisdom" (which avoids any latter-day
ambiguity).

Personally I would go for an entirely
literal translation of 'fröhliche';

"frolicsome"

nothing either wrong or ambig. about
that!

Bon Nuit,  ???, Slaap lekker!

Richmond.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[J. Landman Gay]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

At my school there was a chap called 'Shufflebotham' (pronounced in 
'that' way) who was an extremely good country runner;
although he was often beaten by the chaplain's son; 'Alcock'. I kid you 
not!


Sooner rather than later our good wag, J. Landman G. will "quip one off".


Hard to top those, but...I just got a new phone line and the caller ID 
info is showing up as "Gay Jacqueline". I think I need to change that.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[René Micout]

Name ! Name ! Des noms ! Des noms ! ;-)

Le 12 mai 2010 à 23:25, Dave Cragg a écrit :

> Bringing things back on topic (well sort of)...
> 
> Nietzsche also wrote something called (in English) The Gay Science. This is 
> something of which a certain person on this list is sure to endorse, and 
> illustrates Nietzsche's great foresight or aforementioned person's 
> retrospective hindsight with which we are all familiar, relatively speaking.
> 
> Thus spoke Dave
> 
> 
> 
> On 12 May 2010, at 21:57, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> René Micout wrote:
>> 
>>> This argument is used by the enemies of Nietzsche's thought.
>>> All these stupid things taken from "La volonté de puissance"
>>> book that Nietzsche ever wrote, but was built by his sister who
>>> was anti-Semitic (and fan of Hitler) (with whom she strongly
>>> disagreed) after the death of his brother. It is true that this
>>> philosopher is dangerous because it is misunderstood (Chamberlain)
>>> that can lead to aberrations. Nietzsche condemned anti-Semitism
>>> very strongly in his writings. Recent studies of the philosopher
>>> (in particular by Gilles Deleuze and Patrick Wotling) shows the
>>> depth of his concepts of the 19th century sheds light on issues
>>> pertinent to the 21st century ...
>> 
>> I don't mind an OT post when I learn something. :)
>> 
>> Thanks, René.  Good info.  Sheds good light on the man, and helps explain 
>> why my own somewhat limited readings of Nietzsche's works didn't strike me 
>> the same way others describe him.
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World
>> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[René Micout]

If Hitler had read Nietzsche I do not think it is claimed. It is very violent 
with anti-Semitic, also the violence. I think he read the wrong book concocted 
by his sister in which sentences are truncated and modified to suggest to 
Hitler that his brother shared his ideas. 
read about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Will_to_Power_ (manuscript), I 
know the French version 
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Volonté_de_puissance 
I do not know if the English version is the same (five times shorter). 
I understand (I hope I am not wrong) that you worked on Sanskrit. 
Nietzsche in particular raised the figure of Dionysus, the Greek equivalent of 
Shiva (Cernunos in Celtic) 
A few days ago on French television, Michel Onfray, a French philosopher 
strongly anchored to the left (politics) said: "The discovery of Nietzsche has 
changed my life." I doubt a man of the left claims (especially in France) of a 
philosopher professing the ideals of the far right. 
But it is late Mister ("Mais il est tard, Monsieur)" (in the words of Jacques 
Brel), almost midnight and it is time to go to bed. 
It is not easy and it takes time but this writer is very important if there is 
only one book to read about Nietzsche Nietzsche I advise Patrick Wotling (I do 
not know if has been translated into English), but that of Deleuze has been 
(but it is very difficult).
Good Night Richmond !
René

Le 12 mai 2010 à 23:19, Richmond Mathewson a écrit :

> On 12/05/2010 23:53, René Micout wrote:
>> This argument is used by the enemies of Nietzsche's thought. All these 
>> stupid things taken from "La volonté de puissance" book that Nietzsche ever 
>> wrote, but was built by his sister who was anti-Semitic (and fan of Hitler) 
>> (with whom she strongly disagreed) after the death of his brother. It is 
>> true that this philosopher is dangerous because it is misunderstood 
>> (Chamberlain) that can lead to aberrations. Nietzsche condemned 
>> anti-Semitism very strongly in his writings. Recent studies of the 
>> philosopher (in particular by Gilles Deleuze and Patrick Wotling) shows the 
>> depth of his concepts of the 19th century sheds light on issues pertinent to 
>> the 21st century ...
>> As for Wittgenstein, I recommend "L'abécédaire de Gilles Deleuze" which 
>> defines his thought as "the degree zero of the philosophy" ...
>> Désaccord total... but ;-)
>> Bonne nuit
>> René
>> 
> 
> Well it is a good thing that Thee and Me, at least, are grown ups, so we can 
> disagree violently yet still carry on a civilised
> correspondence.
> 
> This is, of course, quite unlike somebody else . . .  :)
> 
> I think that the reason many people discard Wittgenstein is that they think 
> because he did not write in some sort of
> metaphysical jargon, but plain, simple words and sentences, he wrote crap. In 
> fact, if one takes one's time to work
> one's way through his work there is a lot of good there.
> 
> I, also, wouldn't doubt that there is a lot of good in some of Nietzsche's 
> work; it has been, however, overshadowed by
> historical developments; whether as a result of misinterpretation (and that 
> has to be a subjective judgement) of what
> he wrote, distortion by his sister, distortion by Chamberlain, or what he 
> actually did write.
> 
> What constitutes one man's misinterpretation may be another man's verité; ne 
> c'est pas?  And as Nietzsche is dead
> we are quite unable to find out what the man actually intended to say.
> 
> It is also extremely difficult to read any writer whose work has had an 
> historical effect without one's interpretation
> being coloured by a knowledge of that historical effect; reading in vacuo is 
> not an option..
> 
> While Wittgenstein has had an effect on late 20 century thought, he has not 
> precipitated (even if unwittingly) what
> happened in central Europe between 1933 and 1945, and whose echoes are still 
> being felt.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 13/05/2010 00:25, Dave Cragg wrote:

Bringing things back on topic (well sort of)...

Nietzsche also wrote something called (in English)


To come out of the closet, or to stay shut in; that is the question.


The Gay Science.


Oh dear! Polysemanticism and the perils of translation.

There is a chap called 'Randy' over here the other day, and my first 
name is 'John' . . . the whole thing can be carried too far.


At my school there was a chap called 'Shufflebotham' (pronounced in 
'that' way) who was an extremely good country runner;

although he was often beaten by the chaplain's son; 'Alcock'. I kid you not!

Sooner rather than later our good wag, J. Landman G. will "quip one off".


This is something of which a certain person on this list is sure to endorse, 
and illustrates Nietzsche's great foresight or aforementioned person's 
retrospective hindsight with which we are all familiar, relatively speaking.

Thus spoke Dave


Try a Google search for "Revolution" . . .  :)

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[Dave Cragg]

Bringing things back on topic (well sort of)...

Nietzsche also wrote something called (in English) The Gay Science. This is 
something of which a certain person on this list is sure to endorse, and 
illustrates Nietzsche's great foresight or aforementioned person's 
retrospective hindsight with which we are all familiar, relatively speaking.

Thus spoke Dave



On 12 May 2010, at 21:57, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> René Micout wrote:
> 
> > This argument is used by the enemies of Nietzsche's thought.
> > All these stupid things taken from "La volonté de puissance"
> > book that Nietzsche ever wrote, but was built by his sister who
> > was anti-Semitic (and fan of Hitler) (with whom she strongly
> > disagreed) after the death of his brother. It is true that this
> > philosopher is dangerous because it is misunderstood (Chamberlain)
> > that can lead to aberrations. Nietzsche condemned anti-Semitism
> > very strongly in his writings. Recent studies of the philosopher
> > (in particular by Gilles Deleuze and Patrick Wotling) shows the
> > depth of his concepts of the 19th century sheds light on issues
> > pertinent to the 21st century ...
> 
> I don't mind an OT post when I learn something. :)
> 
> Thanks, René.  Good info.  Sheds good light on the man, and helps explain why 
> my own somewhat limited readings of Nietzsche's works didn't strike me the 
> same way others describe him.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 13/05/2010 00:10, René Micout wrote:

I am so sorry to drift on our computer's subjects, it's my fault, I made a 
citation about which I do not think there would be these returns back.
I also know from experience that the name of Nietzsche can be controversial. It 
is a paradox because it is a philosopher of life who fights nihilism and when 
someone is nihilistic we assimilate his remarks to those of Nietzsche ... 
Strange that this man is so little understood. We must recognize that his books 
are not easily accessible.



C'est sure, mon ami ; et Immanuel Kant, Nicolas Malebranche et al aussi 
. . .  :)

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 12/05/2010 23:53, René Micout wrote:

This argument is used by the enemies of Nietzsche's thought. All these stupid things 
taken from "La volonté de puissance" book that Nietzsche ever wrote, but was 
built by his sister who was anti-Semitic (and fan of Hitler) (with whom she strongly 
disagreed) after the death of his brother. It is true that this philosopher is dangerous 
because it is misunderstood (Chamberlain) that can lead to aberrations. Nietzsche 
condemned anti-Semitism very strongly in his writings. Recent studies of the philosopher 
(in particular by Gilles Deleuze and Patrick Wotling) shows the depth of his concepts of 
the 19th century sheds light on issues pertinent to the 21st century ...
As for Wittgenstein, I recommend "L'abécédaire de Gilles Deleuze" which defines his 
thought as "the degree zero of the philosophy" ...
Désaccord total... but ;-)
Bonne nuit
René



Well it is a good thing that Thee and Me, at least, are grown ups, so we 
can disagree violently yet still carry on a civilised

correspondence.

This is, of course, quite unlike somebody else . . .  :)

I think that the reason many people discard Wittgenstein is that they 
think because he did not write in some sort of
metaphysical jargon, but plain, simple words and sentences, he wrote 
crap. In fact, if one takes one's time to work

one's way through his work there is a lot of good there.

I, also, wouldn't doubt that there is a lot of good in some of 
Nietzsche's work; it has been, however, overshadowed by
historical developments; whether as a result of misinterpretation (and 
that has to be a subjective judgement) of what
he wrote, distortion by his sister, distortion by Chamberlain, or what 
he actually did write.


What constitutes one man's misinterpretation may be another man's 
verité; ne c'est pas?  And as Nietzsche is dead

we are quite unable to find out what the man actually intended to say.

It is also extremely difficult to read any writer whose work has had an 
historical effect without one's interpretation
being coloured by a knowledge of that historical effect; reading in 
vacuo is not an option..


While Wittgenstein has had an effect on late 20 century thought, he has 
not precipitated (even if unwittingly) what
happened in central Europe between 1933 and 1945, and whose echoes are 
still being felt.

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[René Micout]

I am so sorry to drift on our computer's subjects, it's my fault, I made a 
citation about which I do not think there would be these returns back.
I also know from experience that the name of Nietzsche can be controversial. It 
is a paradox because it is a philosopher of life who fights nihilism and when 
someone is nihilistic we assimilate his remarks to those of Nietzsche ... 
Strange that this man is so little understood. We must recognize that his books 
are not easily accessible.

Le 12 mai 2010 à 22:57, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

> René Micout wrote:
> 
> > This argument is used by the enemies of Nietzsche's thought.
> > All these stupid things taken from "La volonté de puissance"
> > book that Nietzsche ever wrote, but was built by his sister who
> > was anti-Semitic (and fan of Hitler) (with whom she strongly
> > disagreed) after the death of his brother. It is true that this
> > philosopher is dangerous because it is misunderstood (Chamberlain)
> > that can lead to aberrations. Nietzsche condemned anti-Semitism
> > very strongly in his writings. Recent studies of the philosopher
> > (in particular by Gilles Deleuze and Patrick Wotling) shows the
> > depth of his concepts of the 19th century sheds light on issues
> > pertinent to the 21st century ...
> 
> I don't mind an OT post when I learn something. :)
> 
> Thanks, René.  Good info.  Sheds good light on the man, and helps explain why 
> my own somewhat limited readings of Nietzsche's works didn't strike me the 
> same way others describe him.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
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> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[Richard Gaskin]

René Micout wrote:

> This argument is used by the enemies of Nietzsche's thought.
> All these stupid things taken from "La volonté de puissance"
> book that Nietzsche ever wrote, but was built by his sister who
> was anti-Semitic (and fan of Hitler) (with whom she strongly
> disagreed) after the death of his brother. It is true that this
> philosopher is dangerous because it is misunderstood (Chamberlain)
> that can lead to aberrations. Nietzsche condemned anti-Semitism
> very strongly in his writings. Recent studies of the philosopher
> (in particular by Gilles Deleuze and Patrick Wotling) shows the
> depth of his concepts of the 19th century sheds light on issues
> pertinent to the 21st century ...

I don't mind an OT post when I learn something. :)

Thanks, René.  Good info.  Sheds good light on the man, and helps 
explain why my own somewhat limited readings of Nietzsche's works didn't 
strike me the same way others describe him.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[René Micout]

This argument is used by the enemies of Nietzsche's thought. All these stupid 
things taken from "La volonté de puissance" book that Nietzsche ever wrote, but 
was built by his sister who was anti-Semitic (and fan of Hitler) (with whom she 
strongly disagreed) after the death of his brother. It is true that this 
philosopher is dangerous because it is misunderstood (Chamberlain) that can 
lead to aberrations. Nietzsche condemned anti-Semitism very strongly in his 
writings. Recent studies of the philosopher (in particular by Gilles Deleuze 
and Patrick Wotling) shows the depth of his concepts of the 19th century sheds 
light on issues pertinent to the 21st century ...
As for Wittgenstein, I recommend "L'abécédaire de Gilles Deleuze" which defines 
his thought as "the degree zero of the philosophy" ...
Désaccord total... but ;-)
Bonne nuit
René

Le 12 mai 2010 à 22:35, Richmond Mathewson a écrit :

> MOT: Ministry of Transport / Miles of Topic / Mad, 'Orrible & Twisted; your 
> choice.
> 
> On 12/05/2010 23:16, Andre Garzia wrote:
>> Believe me, I can't understand Nietzsche even in Portuguese... and I had
>> classes about him at the university...
>> 
> 
> My son had a Nietzsche "patch" about a year ago, and all our meals were spoilt
> by all sorts of pronouncements about how people who didn't contribute to
> society should be shot, and more awful stuff. Luckily my son is 17 and has now
> recovered from his "Nietzchean aberration" and is now taking out his 
> adolescent
> frustrations on the piano and his parents . . .  :(
> 
> Perhaps I should also point out that the inventor of Nazism (who was English, 
> oddly
> enough), Houston Chamberlain (married Wagner's daughter), drew on a lot of 
> Nietzsche's
> stuff for . . .  well we all know where that went: millions and millions of 
> people being gassed:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Chamberlain
> 
> So, frankly, I don't think I want to understand Nietzsche.
> 
> ---
> 
> Now; as a holder of a degree in Philosophy, if you really want to read some 
> philosophy
> that doesn't lead one down the garden path to racism, fascism and so forth 
> why not
> try a spot of Wittgenstein:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittgenstein
> 
> I have been trying spots of Wittgenstein for years, and after about 25, feel 
> I am just
> beginning to understand what he really wanted to say (and I am probably quite
> wrong).
> 
> --
> 
> Oh; before I forget:
> 
> 1. Unicode fonts don't work properly with RunRev and Windows Vista.
> 
> 2. Fonts and RunRev are enormously problematic with Linux.
> 
> 3. Nietzsche never played football for Arbroath.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement [MOT]

[Richmond Mathewson]

 MOT: Ministry of Transport / Miles of Topic / Mad, 'Orrible & 
Twisted; your choice.


On 12/05/2010 23:16, Andre Garzia wrote:

Believe me, I can't understand Nietzsche even in Portuguese... and I had
classes about him at the university...



My son had a Nietzsche "patch" about a year ago, and all our meals were 
spoilt

by all sorts of pronouncements about how people who didn't contribute to
society should be shot, and more awful stuff. Luckily my son is 17 and 
has now
recovered from his "Nietzchean aberration" and is now taking out his 
adolescent

frustrations on the piano and his parents . . .  :(

Perhaps I should also point out that the inventor of Nazism (who was 
English, oddly
enough), Houston Chamberlain (married Wagner's daughter), drew on a lot 
of Nietzsche's
stuff for . . .  well we all know where that went: millions and millions 
of people being gassed:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston_Chamberlain

So, frankly, I don't think I want to understand Nietzsche.

---

Now; as a holder of a degree in Philosophy, if you really want to read 
some philosophy
that doesn't lead one down the garden path to racism, fascism and so 
forth why not

try a spot of Wittgenstein:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittgenstein

I have been trying spots of Wittgenstein for years, and after about 25, 
feel I am just
beginning to understand what he really wanted to say (and I am probably 
quite

wrong).

--

Oh; before I forget:

1. Unicode fonts don't work properly with RunRev and Windows Vista.

2. Fonts and RunRev are enormously problematic with Linux.

3. Nietzsche never played football for Arbroath.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

A philosopher very difficult to access that requires a gradual initiation. I 
have read many books on Nietzsche before reading his books ... (Patrick 
Wotling, Gilles Deleuze, Michel Onfray, etc.)

Le 12 mai 2010 à 22:16, Andre Garzia a écrit :

> Believe me, I can't understand Nietzsche even in Portuguese... and I had
> classes about him at the university...
> 
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout 
> wrote:
> 
>> Sorry Francis but I think that is the word "resentment" I wanted to
>> express.
>> The real word is "ressentiment", a french word for a Nietzsche's
>> philosophical concept.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment
>> Bonne nuit
>> René
>> 
>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 21:45, Francis Nugent Dixon a écrit :
>> 
>>> Hi from Beautiful Brittanny,
>>> 
>>> Richard Gaskin wrote :
>>> 
> Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making business decisions for
> the future based on previous experience.
 
>>> wrote Sorry Richard,
>>> 
 René Micout wrote:
 
> Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :
> 
>> I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related products
>> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense --no pun
>> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the future.
> 
> "Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment" — Nietzsche
 
>>> 
>>> "Ressentiment"  in French means "feeling" or "understanding" or
>> "comprehension"
>>> 
>>> Best Regards
>>> 
>>> -Francis
>>> 
>>> "Nothing should ever be done for the first time !"
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Bob Sneidar]

Does it still hurt?

Bob


On May 12, 2010, at 1:16 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Believe me, I can't understand Nietzsche even in Portuguese... and I had
> classes about him at the university...

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Andre Garzia]

Believe me, I can't understand Nietzsche even in Portuguese... and I had
classes about him at the university...

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout wrote:

> Sorry Francis but I think that is the word "resentment" I wanted to
> express.
> The real word is "ressentiment", a french word for a Nietzsche's
> philosophical concept.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment
> Bonne nuit
> René
>
> Le 12 mai 2010 à 21:45, Francis Nugent Dixon a écrit :
>
> > Hi from Beautiful Brittanny,
> >
> > Richard Gaskin wrote :
> >
> >>> Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making business decisions for
> >>> the future based on previous experience.
> >>
> > wrote Sorry Richard,
> >
> >> René Micout wrote:
> >>
> >>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :
> >>>
>  I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related products
>  that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense --no pun
>  intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the future.
> >>>
> >>> "Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment" — Nietzsche
> >>
> >
> > "Ressentiment"  in French means "feeling" or "understanding" or
> "comprehension"
> >
> > Best Regards
> >
> > -Francis
> >
> > "Nothing should ever be done for the first time !"
> >
> > ___
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> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Sorry Francis but I think that is the word "resentment" I wanted to express.
The real word is "ressentiment", a french word for a Nietzsche's philosophical 
concept.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ressentiment
Bonne nuit
René

Le 12 mai 2010 à 21:45, Francis Nugent Dixon a écrit :

> Hi from Beautiful Brittanny,
> 
> Richard Gaskin wrote :
> 
>>> Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making business decisions for
>>> the future based on previous experience.
>> 
> wrote Sorry Richard,
> 
>> René Micout wrote:
>> 
>>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :
>>> 
 I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related products
 that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense --no pun
 intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the future.
>>> 
>>> "Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment" — Nietzsche
>> 
> 
> "Ressentiment"  in French means "feeling" or "understanding" or 
> "comprehension"
> 
> Best Regards
> 
> -Francis
> 
> "Nothing should ever be done for the first time !"
> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Francis Nugent Dixon]

Hi from Beautiful Brittanny,

Richard Gaskin wrote :

Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making business decisions  
for

the future based on previous experience.



wrote Sorry Richard,


René Micout wrote:


Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :


I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related products
that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense --no pun
intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the future.


"Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment" — Nietzsche




"Ressentiment"  in French means "feeling" or "understanding" or  
"comprehension"


Best Regards

-Francis

"Nothing should ever be done for the first time !"

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Andre Garzia]

I can understand you quite well, now, about understanding me, I understand
is quite a challenge!

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jerry Daniels  wrote:

> French translation? I was thinking I needed English subtitles so the people
> outside of Texas could understand me, too.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
> http://rodeoapps.com
>
> On May 12, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Michael Kann  wrote:
>
> > Rene,
> >
> > Seriously, perhaps you should cut a deal with Jerry. Translate his Rodeo
> material into French for him.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --- On Wed, 5/12/10, René Micout  wrote:
> >
> >> From: René Micout 
> >> Subject: Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement
> >> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> >> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 11:58 AM
> >> Than you Richard :-) but it is not my
> >> impress. It is not matter after all :-)
> >> I'm trying to read and translate into good French your
> >> article "Beyond the browser ". Does it have any interest to
> >> have a French version of this article ?. If you want I can
> >> send ( when it is completed) a PDF to you ...
> >>
> >> Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:46, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
> >>
> >>> René Micout wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>>> I try to be supportive to all of you offering
> >> Rev related products
> >>>>> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not
> >> at the expense --no pun
> >>>>> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple
> >> hardware in the future.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment"
> >> — Nietzsche
> >>>
> >>> Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making
> >> business decisions for the future based on previous
> >> experience.
> >>>
> >>> Like Mark Twain said:
> >>>
> >>> "Good judgment comes from experience.
> >>> Experience comes from bad judgment."
> >>>
> >>> :)
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Richard Gaskin
> >>> Fourth World
> >>> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> >>> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> >>> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> >>> ___
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and
> >> manage your subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> >> your subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Bob Sneidar]

What?? ;-)

Bob


On May 12, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> I can understand you quite well, now, about understanding me, I understand
> is quite a challenge!
> 
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jerry Daniels  wrote:
> 
>> French translation? I was thinking I needed English subtitles so the people
>> outside of Texas could understand me, too.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Jerry Daniels

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Andre Garzia]

I can understand you quite well, now, about understanding me, I understand
is quite a challenge!

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 2:44 PM, Jerry Daniels  wrote:

> French translation? I was thinking I needed English subtitles so the people
> outside of Texas could understand me, too.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
> http://rodeoapps.com
>
> On May 12, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Michael Kann  wrote:
>
> > Rene,
> >
> > Seriously, perhaps you should cut a deal with Jerry. Translate his Rodeo
> material into French for him.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > --- On Wed, 5/12/10, René Micout  wrote:
> >
> >> From: René Micout 
> >> Subject: Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement
> >> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> >> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 11:58 AM
> >> Than you Richard :-) but it is not my
> >> impress. It is not matter after all :-)
> >> I'm trying to read and translate into good French your
> >> article "Beyond the browser ". Does it have any interest to
> >> have a French version of this article ?. If you want I can
> >> send ( when it is completed) a PDF to you ...
> >>
> >> Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:46, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
> >>
> >>> René Micout wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>>> I try to be supportive to all of you offering
> >> Rev related products
> >>>>> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not
> >> at the expense --no pun
> >>>>> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple
> >> hardware in the future.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment"
> >> — Nietzsche
> >>>
> >>> Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making
> >> business decisions for the future based on previous
> >> experience.
> >>>
> >>> Like Mark Twain said:
> >>>
> >>> "Good judgment comes from experience.
> >>> Experience comes from bad judgment."
> >>>
> >>> :)
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Richard Gaskin
> >>> Fourth World
> >>> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> >>> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> >>> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> >>> ___
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and
> >> manage your subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> >> your subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

French translation? I was thinking I needed English subtitles so the people 
outside of Texas could understand me, too.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 12, 2010, at 12:02 PM, Michael Kann  wrote:

> Rene, 
> 
> Seriously, perhaps you should cut a deal with Jerry. Translate his Rodeo 
> material into French for him.
> 
> Mike
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/12/10, René Micout  wrote:
> 
>> From: René Micout 
>> Subject: Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement
>> To: "How to use Revolution" 
>> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 11:58 AM
>> Than you Richard :-) but it is not my
>> impress. It is not matter after all :-)
>> I'm trying to read and translate into good French your
>> article "Beyond the browser ". Does it have any interest to
>> have a French version of this article ?. If you want I can
>> send ( when it is completed) a PDF to you ...
>> 
>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:46, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
>> 
>>> René Micout wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :
>>>> 
>>>>> I try to be supportive to all of you offering
>> Rev related products
>>>>> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not
>> at the expense --no pun
>>>>> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple
>> hardware in the future.
>>>> 
>>>> "Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment"
>> — Nietzsche
>>> 
>>> Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making
>> business decisions for the future based on previous
>> experience.
>>> 
>>> Like Mark Twain said:
>>> 
>>> "Good judgment comes from experience.
>>> Experience comes from bad judgment."
>>> 
>>> :)
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World
>>> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>>> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>>> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
>>> ___
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and
>> manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
>> ___
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Richard Gaskin]

René Micout wrote:

> I'm trying to read and translate into good French your article
> "Beyond the browser ". Does it have any interest to have a
> French version of this article ?. If you want I can send
> ( when it is completed) a PDF to you ...

That's a very generous offer.  Yes! I would be very glad to post that 
PDF - many of our site visitors would appreciate it, and it might help 
me with my very slow learning of French as well. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Great idea Mike !
As I can have "Rodeo" in preview...
;-)
Bon souvenir de Paris
René

Le 12 mai 2010 à 19:02, Michael Kann a écrit :

> Rene, 
> 
> Seriously, perhaps you should cut a deal with Jerry. Translate his Rodeo 
> material into French for him.
> 
> Mike

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Michael Kann]

Rene, 

Seriously, perhaps you should cut a deal with Jerry. Translate his Rodeo 
material into French for him.

Mike

--- On Wed, 5/12/10, René Micout  wrote:

> From: René Micout 
> Subject: Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 11:58 AM
> Than you Richard :-) but it is not my
> impress. It is not matter after all :-)
> I'm trying to read and translate into good French your
> article "Beyond the browser ". Does it have any interest to
> have a French version of this article ?. If you want I can
> send ( when it is completed) a PDF to you ...
> 
> Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:46, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
> 
> > René Micout wrote:
> > 
> > > Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :
> > >
> > >> I try to be supportive to all of you offering
> Rev related products
> > >> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not
> at the expense --no pun
> > >> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple
> hardware in the future.
> > >
> >> "Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment"
> — Nietzsche
> > 
> > Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making
> business decisions for the future based on previous
> experience.
> > 
> > Like Mark Twain said:
> > 
> > "Good judgment comes from experience.
> > Experience comes from bad judgment."
> > 
> > :)
> > 
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World
> > Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> > Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> > revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> > ___
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and
> manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 



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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Than you Richard :-) but it is not my impress. It is not matter after all :-)
I'm trying to read and translate into good French your article "Beyond the 
browser ". Does it have any interest to have a French version of this article 
?. If you want I can send ( when it is completed) a PDF to you ...

Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:46, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

> René Micout wrote:
> 
> > Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :
> >
> >> I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related products
> >> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense --no pun
> >> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the future.
> >
>> "Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment" — Nietzsche
> 
> Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making business decisions for the 
> future based on previous experience.
> 
> Like Mark Twain said:
> 
> "Good judgment comes from experience.
> Experience comes from bad judgment."
> 
> :)
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
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> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Richard Gaskin]

René Micout wrote:

> Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :
>
>> I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related products
>> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense --no pun
>> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the future.
>

"Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment" — Nietzsche


Doesn't sound like resentment to me, just making business decisions for 
the future based on previous experience.


Like Mark Twain said:

"Good judgment comes from experience.
 Experience comes from bad judgment."

:)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

C'est formidable !!! I want it !!!

Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:38, Jerry Daniels a écrit :

> Yes, that's a big part of Rodeo's appeal: iPad coding on a Mac or on the 
> iPad. The UI builder for iPad will come along after the Mac IDE, but you'll 
> be able to edit your code on the iPad right away.

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

Oui!

Yes, that's a big part of Rodeo's appeal: iPad coding on a Mac or on the iPad. 
The UI builder for iPad will come along after the Mac IDE, but you'll be able 
to edit your code on the iPad right away.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 12, 2010, at 11:35 AM, René Micout  wrote:

> 
> Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:30, Jerry Daniels a écrit :
> 
>> We are targeting the iPad first because of it's at the beginning of a steep 
>> growth curve and because it has a large enough screen to house an IDE!
> 
> If I have well understand (stood ?) Rodeo allows programming FOR iPad but 
> also ON iPad !?___
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:30, Jerry Daniels a écrit :

> We are targeting the iPad first because of it's at the beginning of a steep 
> growth curve and because it has a large enough screen to house an IDE!

If I have well understand (stood ?) Rodeo allows programming FOR iPad but also 
ON iPad !?___
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Yes I understand...

Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:28, Jerry Daniels a écrit :

> Rene,
> 
> I will be doing another posting on Rodeo with answers to your questions. This 
> will happen either Friday or early the next week. 
> 
> We will not be peppering the list here with this sort of thing, but I will 
> give quick answers and direct discussion to the Rodeo site where it belongs.
> 
> I don't want to wear out my welcome here.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jerry Daniels
> 
> Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
> http://rodeoapps.com
> 
> On May 12, 2010, at 11:15 AM, René Micout  wrote:
> 
>> After that, I'll have to use a quality which fortunately is acquired with 
>> age : patience ! Because I am looking forward from now !!
>> I tested tRev since last weekend, but I saw nothing about "Kickstart 
>> program".
>> This could help me pass the time while waiting "Rodeo".
>> Can you tell me when is scheduled the first release of Rodeo?
>> Thank you for helping us :-)
>> René
>> 
>> 
>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:01, Jerry Daniels a écrit :
>> 
>>> Answer: Yes, Rodeo will support access to the iPad APIs that make playing 
>>> music, etc. possible in a web app. We are constrained by what Apple will 
>>> allow, but thus far it appears to be a wide-open playing field.
>>> 
>>> That said, Rodeo is being developed and will be released in stages with 
>>> incremental improvements much as tRev has. Not everything will be available 
>>> from day one, but because of this, day one will come quickly.
>>> 
>>> Our Kickstart program and sales of tRev are starting to create a 
>>> development budget for us. The more of that we can do, the better. Also, we 
>>> have been approached about contract work where we build Rodeo apps for 
>>> others.
>>> 
>>> Many thanks to the Kickstarters, tRev buyers and iPad clients. May they 
>>> multiply! We may need to create some Rodeo developers quickly so they can 
>>> help us with our contracting!
>> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

Michael,

We are targeting the iPad first because of it's at the beginning of a steep 
growth curve and because it has a large enough screen to house an IDE!

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 12, 2010, at 11:20 AM, Michael Kann  wrote:

> David and Jerry, 
> 
> The customer could avoid having to buy any Mac hardware if they could design 
> their app on the Rodeo website itself. The website could act as a development 
> IDE and a simulator both. When you are done designing your app then anyone 
> could download the app from the Rodeo website. This would be very good 
> advertizing for Rodeo because people could see all the apps made with it.
> 
> One question for Jerry:
> 
> Why are you targeting the iPad and not the iPhone. I know you like to stay 
> ahead of the curve, but it seems like there are a lot more potential 
> customers for iPhone.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> --- On Wed, 5/12/10, David C.  wrote:
> 
>> From: David C. 
>> Subject: Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement
>> To: "How to use Revolution" 
>> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 10:55 AM
>> This is more of an editorial comment
>> rather than adding anything much
>> of real value to the discussion, but here goes...
>> 
>> RunRev offers some awesome products and this list community
>> is just
>> about as good as it gets anywhere. With that said, I can
>> add that
>> although I sincerely admire what you folks have planned for
>> Rodeo, it
>> is highly unlikely that I'll ever become a customer or
>> user.
>> 
>>> You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile
>> or even Revolution
>>> IDE to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online
>> storage for you web
>>> apps as that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.
>> 
>> What it *does* require though, is the purchase or ownership
>> of Apple
>> hardware (the iPad for sure and/or a Mac computer should
>> the Windows
>> version not come about) and I have no intentions of ever
>> "going there"
>> again.
>> 
>> Apple's restrictive and unwarranted policies have cost them
>> (and
>> Rodeo) at least one customer for the future. As much as I
>> enjoy the
>> functionality, ownership of the iPhone even feels a bit
>> "dirty" to me
>> now. An Android phone will most likely be in my future.
>> 
>> I've become a customer to many of you here that offer Rev
>> related
>> products... just purchased the conference dvd's, should
>> have a
>> RevServer account by the end of the week and have plans to
>> upgrade to
>> the Enterprise edition and/or add RevMobile sometime in the
>> near
>> future.
>> 
>> I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related
>> products
>> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense
>> --no pun
>> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the
>> future.
>> 
>> A sad state of affairs, huh?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> David C.
>> ___
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

Rene,

I will be doing another posting on Rodeo with answers to your questions. This 
will happen either Friday or early the next week. 

We will not be peppering the list here with this sort of thing, but I will give 
quick answers and direct discussion to the Rodeo site where it belongs.

I don't want to wear out my welcome here.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 12, 2010, at 11:15 AM, René Micout  wrote:

> After that, I'll have to use a quality which fortunately is acquired with age 
> : patience ! Because I am looking forward from now !!
> I tested tRev since last weekend, but I saw nothing about "Kickstart program".
> This could help me pass the time while waiting "Rodeo".
> Can you tell me when is scheduled the first release of Rodeo?
> Thank you for helping us :-)
> René
> 
> 
> Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:01, Jerry Daniels a écrit :
> 
>> Answer: Yes, Rodeo will support access to the iPad APIs that make playing 
>> music, etc. possible in a web app. We are constrained by what Apple will 
>> allow, but thus far it appears to be a wide-open playing field.
>> 
>> That said, Rodeo is being developed and will be released in stages with 
>> incremental improvements much as tRev has. Not everything will be available 
>> from day one, but because of this, day one will come quickly.
>> 
>> Our Kickstart program and sales of tRev are starting to create a development 
>> budget for us. The more of that we can do, the better. Also, we have been 
>> approached about contract work where we build Rodeo apps for others.
>> 
>> Many thanks to the Kickstarters, tRev buyers and iPad clients. May they 
>> multiply! We may need to create some Rodeo developers quickly so they can 
>> help us with our contracting!
> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jim Ault]

On May 12, 2010, at 7:02 AM, Michael Kann wrote:

As usual, Jim has provided us with a great explanation of how it all  
fits together. My first question: Why don't you gather up all your  
posts and put out a book?


I just want to add one small addition. All the popular javascript  
libraries, jQuery et. al., are popular because they have built-in  
browser sniffing. Instead of heading to quirksmode.org directly, a  
person could either use or deconstruct those libraries to find out  
how to do it.


Mike


I, too, like the JQuery libraries, but the real catch is that  
development of apps usually requires that the programmer handle  
specific needs/inconsistencies much sooner than library updates (eg.  
JQuery) become available.  Also, running large libraries when your app  
only needs a small subset can lead to headaches when conflicts arise.   
One example of headaches can be seen with WordPress themes and plugins  
that use PHP libraries written by a variety of authors.


One factor when designing a project is to anticipate all the  
innovations that mobile/browser implementations will incorporate in  
the future.  This will be a shifting landscape for many years to  
come.  An example will be the Google Android updates.  Another example  
is legacy browsers that do not interpret HTML5.




As far as any book, highly unlikely.  My specialty is internet  
marketing and my two client campaigns consume all of my available  
time, and will do for the next couple years.  The On-Rev server, cgi,  
php, irev will be integral and essential components of my marketing  
operation.   I am sure I will have multiple accounts and numerous  
libraries.


Jim Ault
Las Vegas



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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

David,

If you're totally opposed to using any Apple products, for whatever reasons, 
then, of course, you won't be using Rodeo for the iPad. As we address other 
devices (and if we do), give us another look!

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 12, 2010, at 10:55 AM, "David C."  wrote:

> This is more of an editorial comment rather than adding anything much
> of real value to the discussion, but here goes...
> 
> RunRev offers some awesome products and this list community is just
> about as good as it gets anywhere. With that said, I can add that
> although I sincerely admire what you folks have planned for Rodeo, it
> is highly unlikely that I'll ever become a customer or user.
> 
>> You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile or even Revolution
>> IDE to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online storage for you web
>> apps as that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.
> 
> What it *does* require though, is the purchase or ownership of Apple
> hardware (the iPad for sure and/or a Mac computer should the Windows
> version not come about) and I have no intentions of ever "going there"
> again.
> 
> Apple's restrictive and unwarranted policies have cost them (and
> Rodeo) at least one customer for the future. As much as I enjoy the
> functionality, ownership of the iPhone even feels a bit "dirty" to me
> now. An Android phone will most likely be in my future.
> 
> I've become a customer to many of you here that offer Rev related
> products... just purchased the conference dvd's, should have a
> RevServer account by the end of the week and have plans to upgrade to
> the Enterprise edition and/or add RevMobile sometime in the near
> future.
> 
> I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related products
> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense --no pun
> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the future.
> 
> A sad state of affairs, huh?
> 
> Best regards,
> David C.
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Michael Kann]

David and Jerry, 

The customer could avoid having to buy any Mac hardware if they could design 
their app on the Rodeo website itself. The website could act as a development 
IDE and a simulator both. When you are done designing your app then anyone 
could download the app from the Rodeo website. This would be very good 
advertizing for Rodeo because people could see all the apps made with it.

One question for Jerry:

Why are you targeting the iPad and not the iPhone. I know you like to stay 
ahead of the curve, but it seems like there are a lot more potential customers 
for iPhone.

Mike


--- On Wed, 5/12/10, David C.  wrote:

> From: David C. 
> Subject: Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 10:55 AM
> This is more of an editorial comment
> rather than adding anything much
> of real value to the discussion, but here goes...
> 
> RunRev offers some awesome products and this list community
> is just
> about as good as it gets anywhere. With that said, I can
> add that
> although I sincerely admire what you folks have planned for
> Rodeo, it
> is highly unlikely that I'll ever become a customer or
> user.
> 
> > You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile
> or even Revolution
> > IDE to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online
> storage for you web
> > apps as that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.
> 
> What it *does* require though, is the purchase or ownership
> of Apple
> hardware (the iPad for sure and/or a Mac computer should
> the Windows
> version not come about) and I have no intentions of ever
> "going there"
> again.
> 
> Apple's restrictive and unwarranted policies have cost them
> (and
> Rodeo) at least one customer for the future. As much as I
> enjoy the
> functionality, ownership of the iPhone even feels a bit
> "dirty" to me
> now. An Android phone will most likely be in my future.
> 
> I've become a customer to many of you here that offer Rev
> related
> products... just purchased the conference dvd's, should
> have a
> RevServer account by the end of the week and have plans to
> upgrade to
> the Enterprise edition and/or add RevMobile sometime in the
> near
> future.
> 
> I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related
> products
> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense
> --no pun
> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the
> future.
> 
> A sad state of affairs, huh?
> 
> Best regards,
> David C.
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 


  
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

"Ne bâtissons pas l'avenir sur le ressentiment" — Nietzsche

Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:55, David C. a écrit :

> This is more of an editorial comment rather than adding anything much
> of real value to the discussion, but here goes...
> 
> RunRev offers some awesome products and this list community is just
> about as good as it gets anywhere. With that said, I can add that
> although I sincerely admire what you folks have planned for Rodeo, it
> is highly unlikely that I'll ever become a customer or user.
> 
>> You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile or even Revolution
>> IDE to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online storage for you web
>> apps as that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.
> 
> What it *does* require though, is the purchase or ownership of Apple
> hardware (the iPad for sure and/or a Mac computer should the Windows
> version not come about) and I have no intentions of ever "going there"
> again.
> 
> Apple's restrictive and unwarranted policies have cost them (and
> Rodeo) at least one customer for the future. As much as I enjoy the
> functionality, ownership of the iPhone even feels a bit "dirty" to me
> now. An Android phone will most likely be in my future.
> 
> I've become a customer to many of you here that offer Rev related
> products... just purchased the conference dvd's, should have a
> RevServer account by the end of the week and have plans to upgrade to
> the Enterprise edition and/or add RevMobile sometime in the near
> future.
> 
> I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related products
> that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense --no pun
> intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the future.
> 
> A sad state of affairs, huh?
> 
> Best regards,
> David C.
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

After that, I'll have to use a quality which fortunately is acquired with age : 
patience ! Because I am looking forward from now !!
I tested tRev since last weekend, but I saw nothing about "Kickstart program".
This could help me pass the time while waiting "Rodeo".
Can you tell me when is scheduled the first release of Rodeo?
Thank you for helping us :-)
René


Le 12 mai 2010 à 18:01, Jerry Daniels a écrit :

> Answer: Yes, Rodeo will support access to the iPad APIs that make playing 
> music, etc. possible in a web app. We are constrained by what Apple will 
> allow, but thus far it appears to be a wide-open playing field.
> 
> That said, Rodeo is being developed and will be released in stages with 
> incremental improvements much as tRev has. Not everything will be available 
> from day one, but because of this, day one will come quickly.
> 
> Our Kickstart program and sales of tRev are starting to create a development 
> budget for us. The more of that we can do, the better. Also, we have been 
> approached about contract work where we build Rodeo apps for others.
> 
> Many thanks to the Kickstarters, tRev buyers and iPad clients. May they 
> multiply! We may need to create some Rodeo developers quickly so they can 
> help us with our contracting!

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

René,

Answer: Yes, Rodeo will support access to the iPad APIs that make playing 
music, etc. possible in a web app. We are constrained by what Apple will allow, 
but thus far it appears to be a wide-open playing field.

That said, Rodeo is being developed and will be released in stages with 
incremental improvements much as tRev has. Not everything will be available 
from day one, but because of this, day one will come quickly.

Our Kickstart program and sales of tRev are starting to create a development 
budget for us. The more of that we can do, the better. Also, we have been 
approached about contract work where we build Rodeo apps for others.

Many thanks to the Kickstarters, tRev buyers and iPad clients. May they 
multiply! We may need to create some Rodeo developers quickly so they can help 
us with our contracting!

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Create iPad web apps with Rodeo:
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 12, 2010, at 10:30 AM, René Micout  wrote:

> And for my first question ?
> ;-)
> 
> Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:12, Jerry Daniels a écrit :
> 
>> Rene,
>> 
>> You ask an excellent question: 
>> 
>> If the approach Rodeo takes can let you use the iPad features using a single 
>> HyperTalk-like language, then why doesn't Runtime Revolution do this?
>> 
>> The simple answer is: it's not in their corporate DNA, but it is most 
>> certainly in ours. RunRev is all about the binary engine...creating it, 
>> making it happen. We're all about text...parsing it, letting an engine 
>> render it. 
>> 
>> Kevin and I talked before I announced, of course. We have worked together 
>> over the years and know each other pretty well. It was obvious to us both 
>> the directions each of us would go in response to the Apple lock-down. 
>> Different, but very complementary.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Jerry Daniels
>> 
>> Use Revolution technology to create iPad apps:
>> http://rodeoapps.com
>> 
>> On May 12, 2010, at 9:52 AM, René Micout  wrote:
>> 
>>> Jerry,
>>> Your explanation are, for me, easier to understand than your blog 
>>> explanation (because I can read and I am not obliged to follow your 
>>> explanations spoken...).
>>> If I have well understand Rodeo is that I need !
>>> Question 1 : is 100% iPad features available ? > music by example...
>>> Question 2 : why it is not the way taken by RunRev ?
>>> René
>>> 
>>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 16:38, Jerry Daniels a écrit :
>>> 
 Since you brought it up, I believe Rodeo is the most straight forward 
 approach to developing web apps for the iPad. Of course, I'm biased 
 because Sarah, Rob, Mary Jane and I are creating Rodeo! 
 
 You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile or even Revolution 
 IDE to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online storage for you web 
 apps as that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.
 
 Rodeo will be like HyperCard for the iPad. Simple and easy. Whatever skill 
 you possess in revTalk, HyperTalk, stack/card architecture can be reused 
 as a Rodeo developer.
 
 Rodeo is being built using revServer, On-Rev and Revolution IDE by our 
 development team. RunRev, the company, will profit from our endeavor as 
 our technology of choice. We would not be able to get to market so quickly 
 without our use of Revolution technology.
 
 With Rodeo Desktop IDE you write your code in a single HyperTalk-like 
 language and build your interface with an integrated Hypercard-like UI 
 builder. On the iPad itself you will be able to edit the code for your 
 Rodeo-built web app if you have edit permissions, which as the author of 
 the app you would have.
 
 Rodeo is well suited for personal app development, education, consultants, 
 and custom app developers whose clients don't want to pay $75,000+ or deal 
 with Apple's app store as is the case with an Objective-C app for the iPad
 
 As the weeks tick by, we plan to add support for iPhone and other mobile 
 platforms if there is a demand. We are seriously considering an option to 
 help our customers roll their web apps into native iPad apps that can be 
 submitted to the app store. This service will also be demand-driven.
 
 This is a simple product with attractive pricing made with the small 
 developer and inventive user  in mind. I hope this explanation helps you 
 sort through your options.
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> ___
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
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> 
> _

Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[David C.]

This is more of an editorial comment rather than adding anything much
of real value to the discussion, but here goes...

RunRev offers some awesome products and this list community is just
about as good as it gets anywhere. With that said, I can add that
although I sincerely admire what you folks have planned for Rodeo, it
is highly unlikely that I'll ever become a customer or user.

> You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile or even Revolution
> IDE to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online storage for you web
> apps as that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.

What it *does* require though, is the purchase or ownership of Apple
hardware (the iPad for sure and/or a Mac computer should the Windows
version not come about) and I have no intentions of ever "going there"
again.

Apple's restrictive and unwarranted policies have cost them (and
Rodeo) at least one customer for the future. As much as I enjoy the
functionality, ownership of the iPhone even feels a bit "dirty" to me
now. An Android phone will most likely be in my future.

I've become a customer to many of you here that offer Rev related
products... just purchased the conference dvd's, should have a
RevServer account by the end of the week and have plans to upgrade to
the Enterprise edition and/or add RevMobile sometime in the near
future.

I try to be supportive to all of you offering Rev related products
that I need or can use (like Rodeo), but not at the expense --no pun
intended-- of owning or purchasing Apple hardware in the future.

A sad state of affairs, huh?

Best regards,
David C.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

And for my first question ?
;-)

Le 12 mai 2010 à 17:12, Jerry Daniels a écrit :

> Rene,
> 
> You ask an excellent question: 
> 
> If the approach Rodeo takes can let you use the iPad features using a single 
> HyperTalk-like language, then why doesn't Runtime Revolution do this?
> 
> The simple answer is: it's not in their corporate DNA, but it is most 
> certainly in ours. RunRev is all about the binary engine...creating it, 
> making it happen. We're all about text...parsing it, letting an engine render 
> it. 
> 
> Kevin and I talked before I announced, of course. We have worked together 
> over the years and know each other pretty well. It was obvious to us both the 
> directions each of us would go in response to the Apple lock-down. Different, 
> but very complementary.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jerry Daniels
> 
> Use Revolution technology to create iPad apps:
> http://rodeoapps.com
> 
> On May 12, 2010, at 9:52 AM, René Micout  wrote:
> 
>> Jerry,
>> Your explanation are, for me, easier to understand than your blog 
>> explanation (because I can read and I am not obliged to follow your 
>> explanations spoken...).
>> If I have well understand Rodeo is that I need !
>> Question 1 : is 100% iPad features available ? > music by example...
>> Question 2 : why it is not the way taken by RunRev ?
>> René
>> 
>> Le 12 mai 2010 à 16:38, Jerry Daniels a écrit :
>> 
>>> Since you brought it up, I believe Rodeo is the most straight forward 
>>> approach to developing web apps for the iPad. Of course, I'm biased because 
>>> Sarah, Rob, Mary Jane and I are creating Rodeo! 
>>> 
>>> You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile or even Revolution 
>>> IDE to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online storage for you web 
>>> apps as that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.
>>> 
>>> Rodeo will be like HyperCard for the iPad. Simple and easy. Whatever skill 
>>> you possess in revTalk, HyperTalk, stack/card architecture can be reused as 
>>> a Rodeo developer.
>>> 
>>> Rodeo is being built using revServer, On-Rev and Revolution IDE by our 
>>> development team. RunRev, the company, will profit from our endeavor as our 
>>> technology of choice. We would not be able to get to market so quickly 
>>> without our use of Revolution technology.
>>> 
>>> With Rodeo Desktop IDE you write your code in a single HyperTalk-like 
>>> language and build your interface with an integrated Hypercard-like UI 
>>> builder. On the iPad itself you will be able to edit the code for your 
>>> Rodeo-built web app if you have edit permissions, which as the author of 
>>> the app you would have.
>>> 
>>> Rodeo is well suited for personal app development, education, consultants, 
>>> and custom app developers whose clients don't want to pay $75,000+ or deal 
>>> with Apple's app store as is the case with an Objective-C app for the iPad
>>> 
>>> As the weeks tick by, we plan to add support for iPhone and other mobile 
>>> platforms if there is a demand. We are seriously considering an option to 
>>> help our customers roll their web apps into native iPad apps that can be 
>>> submitted to the app store. This service will also be demand-driven.
>>> 
>>> This is a simple product with attractive pricing made with the small 
>>> developer and inventive user  in mind. I hope this explanation helps you 
>>> sort through your options.
>> 
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>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

Rene,

You ask an excellent question: 

If the approach Rodeo takes can let you use the iPad features using a single 
HyperTalk-like language, then why doesn't Runtime Revolution do this?

The simple answer is: it's not in their corporate DNA, but it is most certainly 
in ours. RunRev is all about the binary engine...creating it, making it happen. 
We're all about text...parsing it, letting an engine render it. 

Kevin and I talked before I announced, of course. We have worked together over 
the years and know each other pretty well. It was obvious to us both the 
directions each of us would go in response to the Apple lock-down. Different, 
but very complementary.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Use Revolution technology to create iPad apps:
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 12, 2010, at 9:52 AM, René Micout  wrote:

> Jerry,
> Your explanation are, for me, easier to understand than your blog explanation 
> (because I can read and I am not obliged to follow your explanations 
> spoken...).
> If I have well understand Rodeo is that I need !
> Question 1 : is 100% iPad features available ? > music by example...
> Question 2 : why it is not the way taken by RunRev ?
> René
> 
> Le 12 mai 2010 à 16:38, Jerry Daniels a écrit :
> 
>> Since you brought it up, I believe Rodeo is the most straight forward 
>> approach to developing web apps for the iPad. Of course, I'm biased because 
>> Sarah, Rob, Mary Jane and I are creating Rodeo! 
>> 
>> You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile or even Revolution 
>> IDE to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online storage for you web apps 
>> as that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.
>> 
>> Rodeo will be like HyperCard for the iPad. Simple and easy. Whatever skill 
>> you possess in revTalk, HyperTalk, stack/card architecture can be reused as 
>> a Rodeo developer.
>> 
>> Rodeo is being built using revServer, On-Rev and Revolution IDE by our 
>> development team. RunRev, the company, will profit from our endeavor as our 
>> technology of choice. We would not be able to get to market so quickly 
>> without our use of Revolution technology.
>> 
>> With Rodeo Desktop IDE you write your code in a single HyperTalk-like 
>> language and build your interface with an integrated Hypercard-like UI 
>> builder. On the iPad itself you will be able to edit the code for your 
>> Rodeo-built web app if you have edit permissions, which as the author of the 
>> app you would have.
>> 
>> Rodeo is well suited for personal app development, education, consultants, 
>> and custom app developers whose clients don't want to pay $75,000+ or deal 
>> with Apple's app store as is the case with an Objective-C app for the iPad
>> 
>> As the weeks tick by, we plan to add support for iPhone and other mobile 
>> platforms if there is a demand. We are seriously considering an option to 
>> help our customers roll their web apps into native iPad apps that can be 
>> submitted to the app store. This service will also be demand-driven.
>> 
>> This is a simple product with attractive pricing made with the small 
>> developer and inventive user  in mind. I hope this explanation helps you 
>> sort through your options.
> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Jerry,
Your explanation are, for me, easier to understand than your blog explanation 
(because I can read and I am not obliged to follow your explanations spoken...).
If I have well understand Rodeo is that I need !
Question 1 : is 100% iPad features available ? > music by example...
Question 2 : why it is not the way taken by RunRev ?
René

Le 12 mai 2010 à 16:38, Jerry Daniels a écrit :

> Since you brought it up, I believe Rodeo is the most straight forward 
> approach to developing web apps for the iPad. Of course, I'm biased because 
> Sarah, Rob, Mary Jane and I are creating Rodeo! 
> 
> You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile or even Revolution IDE 
> to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online storage for you web apps as 
> that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.
> 
> Rodeo will be like HyperCard for the iPad. Simple and easy. Whatever skill 
> you possess in revTalk, HyperTalk, stack/card architecture can be reused as a 
> Rodeo developer.
> 
> Rodeo is being built using revServer, On-Rev and Revolution IDE by our 
> development team. RunRev, the company, will profit from our endeavor as our 
> technology of choice. We would not be able to get to market so quickly 
> without our use of Revolution technology.
> 
> With Rodeo Desktop IDE you write your code in a single HyperTalk-like 
> language and build your interface with an integrated Hypercard-like UI 
> builder. On the iPad itself you will be able to edit the code for your 
> Rodeo-built web app if you have edit permissions, which as the author of the 
> app you would have.
> 
> Rodeo is well suited for personal app development, education, consultants, 
> and custom app developers whose clients don't want to pay $75,000+ or deal 
> with Apple's app store as is the case with an Objective-C app for the iPad
> 
> As the weeks tick by, we plan to add support for iPhone and other mobile 
> platforms if there is a demand. We are seriously considering an option to 
> help our customers roll their web apps into native iPad apps that can be 
> submitted to the app store. This service will also be demand-driven.
> 
> This is a simple product with attractive pricing made with the small 
> developer and inventive user  in mind. I hope this explanation helps you sort 
> through your options.

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jerry Daniels]

Rene,

Since you brought it up, I believe Rodeo is the most straight forward approach 
to developing web apps for the iPad. Of course, I'm biased because Sarah, Rob, 
Mary Jane and I are creating Rodeo! 

You don't need revServer, On-Rev, revPlugin, revMobile or even Revolution IDE 
to use Rodeo. You don't even need to get online storage for you web apps as 
that's included in Rodeo's small monthly fee.

Rodeo will be like HyperCard for the iPad. Simple and easy. Whatever skill you 
possess in revTalk, HyperTalk, stack/card architecture can be reused as a Rodeo 
developer.

Rodeo is being built using revServer, On-Rev and Revolution IDE by our 
development team. RunRev, the company, will profit from our endeavor as our 
technology of choice. We would not be able to get to market so quickly without 
our use of Revolution technology.

With Rodeo Desktop IDE you write your code in a single HyperTalk-like language 
and build your interface with an integrated Hypercard-like UI builder. On the 
iPad itself you will be able to edit the code for your Rodeo-built web app if 
you have edit permissions, which as the author of the app you would have.

Rodeo is well suited for personal app development, education, consultants, and 
custom app developers whose clients don't want to pay $75,000+ or deal with 
Apple's app store as is the case with an Objective-C app for the iPad

As the weeks tick by, we plan to add support for iPhone and other mobile 
platforms if there is a demand. We are seriously considering an option to help 
our customers roll their web apps into native iPad apps that can be submitted 
to the app store. This service will also be demand-driven.

This is a simple product with attractive pricing made with the small developer 
and inventive user  in mind. I hope this explanation helps you sort through 
your options.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Create iPad web apps with Rodeo
http://rodeoapps.com

On May 12, 2010, at 8:00 AM, René Micout  wrote:

> Tom,
> Is the same "thing" that my point "6" > Rodeo ? //  On-Rev ? // Rev server ? 
> //
> I am completely lost with all this !!
> René
> 
> Le 12 mai 2010 à 14:55, Thomas McGrath III a écrit :
> 
>> René,
>> 
>> You could of course start developing with RunRev for revServer and then you 
>> would get to target all mobile and web devices, as well as Linux.
>> 
>> A revServer option would allow for both native and browser based 
>> applications. Which, before this past year, was were all of the talk was 
>> centered around. Web Apps are still very relevant and will work in a native 
>> browser wrapper on most mobile phones directly.
>> 
>> What we need is a community wide collection of revServer 'objects' 'scripts' 
>> for each of the desired targets and target features.
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> On May 12, 2010, at 6:09 AM, René Micout wrote:
>> 
>>> I read ALL the posts about RevMobile iPad published before and after the 
>>> Kevin's announcement (difficult because I understand directly approximately 
>>> 50% of what I read).
>>> As a non-professional developper not interested by AppStore, at this time 6 
>>> (+2?) solutions are available to me :
>>> 1.  Expect a change in strategy from Apple > I don't believe it, especially 
>>> since I agree with, roughly, the arguments of Steve
>>> Jobs (I am not a fanatic cross-plateform).
>>> 2.  Begin to explore Objective-C with the help of my daughter who decided 
>>> to join it (she's an ActionScripter...) > I find it
>>> hard to believe considering my age and my abilities
>>> 3.  Expect Hypercard for iPad suitable to Mr. Jobs... > good wills ?
>>> 4.  Expect a multitouch Wacom Wifi tablet (like Cintiq but multitouch and 
>>> Wifi) > in this case it would multitouch functions in
>>> RunRev
>>> 5.  Use RevMobile for iPad in his unfinished version > Full features ? What 
>>> price ? Compiler ? and Kevin said : "We can no
>>> longer create the native interface objects layer, but rather invite our 
>>> community to develop a set of emulated object".
>>> This last point does not bother me too much, it is a form of very 
>>> interesting challenge and it is a bit what I am doing now
>>> with RunRev (the Macintosh interface unsatisfactory) ...
>>> 6.  Watch the side of Rodeo > it feel interesting but it feel complicated 
>>> (perhaps I am wrong...)
>>> If some of you are interested in the point "5", I would be glad to talk 
>>> with them...
>>> 
>>> -- After that line, that's humor! ;-)
>>> I thought also two other solutions :
>>> 7.  Start a hunger strike > impossible, I'm french and in France the food 
>>> is sacred!
>>> 8.  Immolate by the fire surrounded by all my Macintoshes (128K, SE30, 
>>> IIfx, MacPorts, PowerBook 170, PB5040, PB G3
>>> Series, PB Titanium PB G4 12 "iMac G7 27", sorry I have no iPhone and 
>>> not yet iPad [28th May]) under the Eiffel
>>> Tower > It's the Steve Jobs's favorite monument !
>>> 
>>> Bon souvenir de Paris
>>> René
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _

Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Michael Kann]

As usual, Jim has provided us with a great explanation of how it all fits 
together. My first question: Why don't you gather up all your posts and put out 
a book? 

I just want to add one small addition. All the popular javascript libraries, 
jQuery et. al., are popular because they have built-in browser sniffing. 
Instead of heading to quirksmode.org directly, a person could either use or 
deconstruct those libraries to find out how to do it.

Mike

--- On Wed, 5/12/10, Jim Ault  wrote:

> From: Jim Ault 
> Subject: Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 8:46 AM
> On May 12, 2010, at 6:03 AM, Richard
> Gaskin wrote:
> > 
> > RevServer, and even the existing Rev CGI engine, are
> great solutions on the back end.
> > But what goes in the browser?
> > It's still HTML, and for interactivity it means
> learning JavaScript.
> > That said, JavaScript is fun language, and as the only
> language natively handled in every browser it's well worth
> learning.
> 
> An essential element to using browsers successfully is very
> good power scripting for accurate browser detection. 
> The best resource online that I have found is QuirksMode.org
> to modify the HTML for the best result in the various
> browsers.
> 
> Also high on the list to study is the Adobe Flash detection
> scripts that show the array of detection logic paths
> required for a developer to deliver the best possible user
> experience in a browser.  Of course, you would not use
> Flash, but their detection algorithms are very complete.
> 
> The Rev community incarnation would be a library of
> routines that could be built by collaboration and updated as
> new versions of browsers hit the market.
> 
> There are huge advantages to using your RevServer account
> to host the functions you would require for your
> 'apps'.  One advantage is that variations in javascript
> between browser versions would have far less effect. 
> In this case you could use basic javascript code to trigger
> functions (eg. formatText.irev, parseArray.irev,
> errorCheckForm.irev) based on user interactions.  Now
> you need not learn everything about javascript and do the
> tricky stuff in irev/rev stacks/cgi
> 
> Some on the list may not realize that you can build a stack
> of many cards, then launch it on the RevServer using Rev
> cgi/irev so that its stack script is available
> momentarily.  Just add the stack to the cgi
> environment, build the scripts, launch it without using any
> User Interface (UI) objects, then access the fields,
> navigate the cards just as you would on your desktop. 
> After the cgi call is completed, the stack disappears from
> memory, but the idea is that its stack script functions
> returned a result that is sent back to the users browser to
> be displayed.
> 
> Theoretically, you could have one Rev stack for each web
> page you would own or support.  Or you could have a Rev
> stack containing all of the browser detection scripts, and
> this stack would be called/used for each ping from the web
> page.  The result is highly accurate HTML for each
> browser.
> 
> By sharing this development, those who know javascript
> could show how to build simple 'hooks' so that most of the
> heavy lifting would be in RevTalk
> 
> Of course, if you wanted to use zero javascript, your web
> solutions would be less powerful and more difficult to
> create.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Jim Ault
> Las Vegas
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 12/05/2010 16:48, René Micout wrote:

Le 12 mai 2010 à 15:38, Richmond Mathewson a écrit :


so "sucks to Apple" and move
on

Richmond,
I like (love ?) RunRev but I like (love) also Apple computers (hardware and 
software)...
I love RevTalk>  no JavaScript (while...)
I love Apple>  no Linux, no Windows
:-)___


I have been married for very nearly 20 years; the path of 'true love' is 
rarely, if ever, smooth.


I love my PPC G3 and G4 Macs; should I suddenly become a bit richer than 
I am at the moment
I would probably rush out a buy a maxxed-out MacPro,a big, juicy laptop 
and so on.


I have 3 children who come to my school with iPhones; I have played 
around with all of them
extensively; they, frankly, leave me cold: when I want a mobile 
telephone I want a mobile
telephone; when I want a computer I want a computer; when I want a 
record player, camera,
personal psychiatrist . . . blah, blah, blah.  And, last but not least; 
curling up with an iPad for a read

seems a pretty poor second to a real book.

I don't have much time for dictatorial types who tell me what I can or 
cannot do with something
I, supposedly, own; or stop me from helping other people do what they 
want with things they

supposedly own.

I also love the fact that, thanks to Linux, my hardware overheads in my 
school are about ten percent

of my children's annual pocket-money requirements.

I don't like Windows; but, like it or not; most of the people who use my 
software outwith my school

use Windows - so I have to test my stuff on Windows.

---

I love Runtime Revolution "to distraction", and have repeatedly tried to 
'stretch the envelope'
with it. I love it so much that I would like it to be available to all 
and everybody, as so with
standalones generated from it; hence my hammering on and on about the 
Linux version.


---

I know that Kevin and Co. are in an awkward position. However, I did 
state a while back

that I wondered whether they were not over-extending themselves a bit.

I do hope that both RunRev and RunRev (i.e. the company and the IDE) can 
survive this
particular storm - which, in all probability, will look rather 
insignificant with the

wisdom of hindsight in a couple of years time.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Richard Gaskin]

René Micout wrote:


Richard,
Why learning JavaScript ? I want use RevTalk !!


To deploy to a desktop browser, you can use RevTalk with the RevWeb 
browser plugin.


In a mobile device, you can wait for RevMobile's Android or Maemo versions.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Le 12 mai 2010 à 15:46, Jim Ault a écrit :

> Of course, if you wanted to use zero javascript, your web solutions would be 
> less powerful and more difficult to create.

What I want to do is create multitouch musical instruments for my own use 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Le 12 mai 2010 à 15:38, Richmond Mathewson a écrit :

> so "sucks to Apple" and move
> on

Richmond,
I like (love ?) RunRev but I like (love) also Apple computers (hardware and 
software)...
I love RevTalk > no JavaScript (while...)
I love Apple > no Linux, no Windows
:-)___
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Jim Ault]

On May 12, 2010, at 6:03 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


RevServer, and even the existing Rev CGI engine, are great solutions  
on the back end.

But what goes in the browser?
It's still HTML, and for interactivity it means learning JavaScript.
That said, JavaScript is fun language, and as the only language  
natively handled in every browser it's well worth learning.


An essential element to using browsers successfully is very good power  
scripting for accurate browser detection.  The best resource online  
that I have found is QuirksMode.org to modify the HTML for the best  
result in the various browsers.


Also high on the list to study is the Adobe Flash detection scripts  
that show the array of detection logic paths required for a developer  
to deliver the best possible user experience in a browser.  Of course,  
you would not use Flash, but their detection algorithms are very  
complete.


The Rev community incarnation would be a library of routines that  
could be built by collaboration and updated as new versions of  
browsers hit the market.


There are huge advantages to using your RevServer account to host the  
functions you would require for your 'apps'.  One advantage is that  
variations in javascript between browser versions would have far less  
effect.  In this case you could use basic javascript code to trigger  
functions (eg. formatText.irev, parseArray.irev, errorCheckForm.irev)  
based on user interactions.  Now you need not learn everything about  
javascript and do the tricky stuff in irev/rev stacks/cgi


Some on the list may not realize that you can build a stack of many  
cards, then launch it on the RevServer using Rev cgi/irev so that its  
stack script is available momentarily.  Just add the stack to the cgi  
environment, build the scripts, launch it without using any User  
Interface (UI) objects, then access the fields, navigate the cards  
just as you would on your desktop.  After the cgi call is completed,  
the stack disappears from memory, but the idea is that its stack  
script functions returned a result that is sent back to the users  
browser to be displayed.


Theoretically, you could have one Rev stack for each web page you  
would own or support.  Or you could have a Rev stack containing all of  
the browser detection scripts, and this stack would be called/used for  
each ping from the web page.  The result is highly accurate HTML for  
each browser.


By sharing this development, those who know javascript could show how  
to build simple 'hooks' so that most of the heavy lifting would be in  
RevTalk


Of course, if you wanted to use zero javascript, your web solutions  
would be less powerful and more difficult to create.


Hope this helps.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas



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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 12/05/2010 16:18, René Micout wrote:

Richard,
Why learning JavaScript ? I want use RevTalk !!



Yes! Having spent the better part of 9 years getting
reasonably good at RevTalk I have neither the time,
energy or inclination to start learning something as
"un-xTalk" as JavaScript.

I am pondering whether to learn the HyperNext language
but have yet to see what benefits will accrue from that;
the developer says he should (nice modal verb there)
be popping out a Linux version in September-ish.

--

Apple have closed the door for Rev developers as far as
the iPhone and iPad are concerned; at least for the
meantime; so any further discussion in that direction is
a waste of time.

However; outside the cow-byre of Apple there are lovely
green fields full of flowers just longing for programs made
with RunRev and revMobile; so "sucks to Apple" and move
on . . .  :)

--

From my point of view, RunRev's failure to bring the Linux
version up to par with the Windows and Mac versions is
not much better than Apple saying "boo". There is a vast
area of computing (i.e. Linux deployment) that is being
excluded from RunRev developers just as surely as
Apple is excluding RunRev developers from the expensive
toys.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Thomas McGrath III]

René,

Check out http://www.on-rev.com/revolution/overview/ for information about what 
how revServer works and search the lists for how Rev CGI works.


Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
http://lazyriver.on-rev.com
3mcgr...@comcast.net

I Can Speak - Communication for the rest of us...
http://mypad.lazyriver.on-rev.com

I Can Speak on the iPad Store
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/i-can-speak/id364733279?mt=8

On May 12, 2010, at 9:28 AM, René Micout wrote:

> Thank you Tom (and Richard...)
> I will read the Richard's article... and if necessary I come back...
> 
> Le 12 mai 2010 à 15:22, Thomas McGrath III a écrit :
> 
>> I love this article by Richard: 
>> http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html
> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Thank you Tom (and Richard...)
I will read the Richard's article... and if necessary I come back...

Le 12 mai 2010 à 15:22, Thomas McGrath III a écrit :

> I love this article by Richard: 
> http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Thomas McGrath III]

Richard,
I don't know that it would require a complete 100% 'learning' of javascript, 
exactly, but rather a sharing of javascript resources that are directly tied to 
irev scripts and UI objects. This is what has been happening already. I need to 
know how to tie in something I want to do with irev on my site and I go to 
Sarah's site to see how she tied it into JS (as an example.) This kind of 
shared resources can lead to a very nice collection of objects and scripts for 
RunRev users.

René,

I love this article by Richard: 
http://www.fourthworld.com/embassy/articles/netapps.html

I can't speak for Rodeo (You will have to ask Jerry or Sarah) but as far as I 
know, Rodeo is just for iPhone/iPad but revServer(iRev and revCGI) is for 'all' 
platforms that have a browser and internet connection.

revServer uses revolution in a browser window with out the need for downloading 
plugins but requires a RunRev engine on the server.

It works right now without any violations of any licenses out of the box on all 
web/browser enabled mobile devices.

Check it out on the RunRev site.

HTHs 

Tom

On May 12, 2010, at 9:03 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
> That said, JavaScript is fun language, and as the only language natively 
> handled in every browser it's well worth learning.
> 
> 
> > What we need is a community wide collection of revServer 'objects'
> > 'scripts' for each of the desired targets and target features.
> 
> Agreed - and for the browser as well:
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Richard,
Why learning JavaScript ? I want use RevTalk !!

Le 12 mai 2010 à 15:03, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

> Thomas McGrath wrote:
> 
> > You could of course start developing with RunRev for revServer
> > and then you would get to target all mobile and web devices, as
> > well as Linux.
> >
> > A revServer option would allow for both native and browser based
> > applications. Which, before this past year, was were all of the
> > talk was centered around. Web Apps are still very relevant and
> > will work in a native browser wrapper on most mobile phones directly.
> 
> RevServer, and even the existing Rev CGI engine, are great solutions on the 
> back end.
> 
> But what goes in the browser?
> 
> It's still HTML, and for interactivity it means learning JavaScript.
> 
> That said, JavaScript is fun language, and as the only language natively 
> handled in every browser it's well worth learning.
> 
> 
> > What we need is a community wide collection of revServer 'objects'
> > 'scripts' for each of the desired targets and target features.
> 
> Agreed - and for the browser as well:
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Richard Gaskin]

Thomas McGrath wrote:

> You could of course start developing with RunRev for revServer
> and then you would get to target all mobile and web devices, as
> well as Linux.
>
> A revServer option would allow for both native and browser based
> applications. Which, before this past year, was were all of the
> talk was centered around. Web Apps are still very relevant and
> will work in a native browser wrapper on most mobile phones directly.

RevServer, and even the existing Rev CGI engine, are great solutions on 
the back end.


But what goes in the browser?

It's still HTML, and for interactivity it means learning JavaScript.

That said, JavaScript is fun language, and as the only language natively 
handled in every browser it's well worth learning.



> What we need is a community wide collection of revServer 'objects'
> 'scripts' for each of the desired targets and target features.

Agreed - and for the browser as well:


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

Tom,
Is the same "thing" that my point "6" > Rodeo ? //  On-Rev ? // Rev server ? //
I am completely lost with all this !!
René

Le 12 mai 2010 à 14:55, Thomas McGrath III a écrit :

> René,
> 
> You could of course start developing with RunRev for revServer and then you 
> would get to target all mobile and web devices, as well as Linux.
> 
> A revServer option would allow for both native and browser based 
> applications. Which, before this past year, was were all of the talk was 
> centered around. Web Apps are still very relevant and will work in a native 
> browser wrapper on most mobile phones directly.
> 
> What we need is a community wide collection of revServer 'objects' 'scripts' 
> for each of the desired targets and target features.
> 
> Tom
> 
> On May 12, 2010, at 6:09 AM, René Micout wrote:
> 
>> I read ALL the posts about RevMobile iPad published before and after the 
>> Kevin's announcement (difficult because I understand directly approximately 
>> 50% of what I read).
>> As a non-professional developper not interested by AppStore, at this time 6 
>> (+2?) solutions are available to me :
>> 1.   Expect a change in strategy from Apple > I don't believe it, especially 
>> since I agree with, roughly, the arguments of Steve
>>  Jobs (I am not a fanatic cross-plateform).
>> 2.   Begin to explore Objective-C with the help of my daughter who decided 
>> to join it (she's an ActionScripter...) > I find it
>>  hard to believe considering my age and my abilities
>> 3.   Expect Hypercard for iPad suitable to Mr. Jobs... > good wills ?
>> 4.   Expect a multitouch Wacom Wifi tablet (like Cintiq but multitouch and 
>> Wifi) > in this case it would multitouch functions in
>>  RunRev
>> 5.   Use RevMobile for iPad in his unfinished version > Full features ? What 
>> price ? Compiler ? and Kevin said : "We can no
>>  longer create the native interface objects layer, but rather invite our 
>> community to develop a set of emulated object".
>>  This last point does not bother me too much, it is a form of very 
>> interesting challenge and it is a bit what I am doing now
>>  with RunRev (the Macintosh interface unsatisfactory) ...
>> 6.   Watch the side of Rodeo > it feel interesting but it feel complicated 
>> (perhaps I am wrong...)
>> If some of you are interested in the point "5", I would be glad to talk with 
>> them...
>> 
>> -- After that line, that's humor! ;-)
>> I thought also two other solutions :
>> 7.   Start a hunger strike > impossible, I'm french and in France the food 
>> is sacred!
>> 8.   Immolate by the fire surrounded by all my Macintoshes (128K, SE30, 
>> IIfx, MacPorts, PowerBook 170, PB5040, PB G3
>>  Series, PB Titanium PB G4 12 "iMac G7 27", sorry I have no iPhone and 
>> not yet iPad [28th May]) under the Eiffel
>>  Tower > It's the Steve Jobs's favorite monument !
>> 
>> Bon souvenir de Paris
>> René
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Thomas McGrath III]

René,

You could of course start developing with RunRev for revServer and then you 
would get to target all mobile and web devices, as well as Linux.

A revServer option would allow for both native and browser based applications. 
Which, before this past year, was were all of the talk was centered around. Web 
Apps are still very relevant and will work in a native browser wrapper on most 
mobile phones directly.

What we need is a community wide collection of revServer 'objects' 'scripts' 
for each of the desired targets and target features.

Tom

On May 12, 2010, at 6:09 AM, René Micout wrote:

> I read ALL the posts about RevMobile iPad published before and after the 
> Kevin's announcement (difficult because I understand directly approximately 
> 50% of what I read).
> As a non-professional developper not interested by AppStore, at this time 6 
> (+2?) solutions are available to me :
> 1.Expect a change in strategy from Apple > I don't believe it, especially 
> since I agree with, roughly, the arguments of Steve
>   Jobs (I am not a fanatic cross-plateform).
> 2.Begin to explore Objective-C with the help of my daughter who decided 
> to join it (she's an ActionScripter...) > I find it
>   hard to believe considering my age and my abilities
> 3.Expect Hypercard for iPad suitable to Mr. Jobs... > good wills ?
> 4.Expect a multitouch Wacom Wifi tablet (like Cintiq but multitouch and 
> Wifi) > in this case it would multitouch functions in
>   RunRev
> 5.Use RevMobile for iPad in his unfinished version > Full features ? What 
> price ? Compiler ? and Kevin said : "We can no
>   longer create the native interface objects layer, but rather invite our 
> community to develop a set of emulated object".
>   This last point does not bother me too much, it is a form of very 
> interesting challenge and it is a bit what I am doing now
>   with RunRev (the Macintosh interface unsatisfactory) ...
> 6.Watch the side of Rodeo > it feel interesting but it feel complicated 
> (perhaps I am wrong...)
> If some of you are interested in the point "5", I would be glad to talk with 
> them...
> 
> -- After that line, that's humor! ;-)
> I thought also two other solutions :
> 7.Start a hunger strike > impossible, I'm french and in France the food 
> is sacred!
> 8.Immolate by the fire surrounded by all my Macintoshes (128K, SE30, 
> IIfx, MacPorts, PowerBook 170, PB5040, PB G3
>   Series, PB Titanium PB G4 12 "iMac G7 27", sorry I have no iPhone and 
> not yet iPad [28th May]) under the Eiffel
>   Tower > It's the Steve Jobs's favorite monument !
> 
> Bon souvenir de Paris
> René
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[René Micout]

I read ALL the posts about RevMobile iPad published before and after the 
Kevin's announcement (difficult because I understand directly approximately 50% 
of what I read).
As a non-professional developper not interested by AppStore, at this time 6 
(+2?) solutions are available to me :
1.  Expect a change in strategy from Apple > I don't believe it, especially 
since I agree with, roughly, the arguments of Steve
Jobs (I am not a fanatic cross-plateform).
2.  Begin to explore Objective-C with the help of my daughter who decided 
to join it (she's an ActionScripter...) > I find it
hard to believe considering my age and my abilities
3.  Expect Hypercard for iPad suitable to Mr. Jobs... > good wills ?
4.  Expect a multitouch Wacom Wifi tablet (like Cintiq but multitouch and 
Wifi) > in this case it would multitouch functions in
RunRev
5.  Use RevMobile for iPad in his unfinished version > Full features ? What 
price ? Compiler ? and Kevin said : "We can no
longer create the native interface objects layer, but rather invite our 
community to develop a set of emulated object".
This last point does not bother me too much, it is a form of very 
interesting challenge and it is a bit what I am doing now
with RunRev (the Macintosh interface unsatisfactory) ...
6.  Watch the side of Rodeo > it feel interesting but it feel complicated 
(perhaps I am wrong...)
If some of you are interested in the point "5", I would be glad to talk with 
them...

-- After that line, that's humor! ;-)
I thought also two other solutions :
7.  Start a hunger strike > impossible, I'm french and in France the food 
is sacred!
8.  Immolate by the fire surrounded by all my Macintoshes (128K, SE30, 
IIfx, MacPorts, PowerBook 170, PB5040, PB G3
Series, PB Titanium PB G4 12 "iMac G7 27", sorry I have no iPhone and 
not yet iPad [28th May]) under the Eiffel
Tower > It's the Steve Jobs's favorite monument !

Bon souvenir de Paris
René






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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Bernard Devlin]

Absolutely.  I'd decided long ago against having anything to do with
Apple and the iPhone, because I thought the direction Apple was going
in was extremely retrograde.  I wish my fears over Apple had been
wrong.

But I'd be delighted to see RunRev focus on it's core tools.  I can
only hope that good things for the Linux version of Rev would come out
of a focus on Android.  FWIW, I've been happily running a HTC phone
(Windows Mobile) for over 2 years. I've been very happy with what it
provides me with (many of things required jail-breaking on the iPhone,
and even required hoop-jumping on an Android phone).  But HTC seem to
make damn fine phones.  This thing is so superior to all the
top-of-the range Nokia phones I've had in the past, and I bought it on
the recommendation of a gadget freak who rated it very highly.  I've
no doubt my next phone will be a HTC Android.

Let's be glad that Apple pulled the rug at this point, instead of in
12 months time.

Bernard

On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 4:06 AM, Josh Mellicker  wrote:
> With all sympathies to those who are understandably deeply disappointed, 
> there is a silver lining to this news:
>
>
> On May 10, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:
>
>> ...we are ...focusing on developing significant and exciting enhancements to 
>> the Rev platform. We have many exciting projects in the pipeline including 
>> an overhaul to our Unicode support, enhanced text display...
>
> If this pipeline also includes improving core functionality of the desktop 
> IDE, from things like the player object to widgets to fixing bugs, as well as 
> more focus on feature parity for Linux, it could end up being great for all 
> of us.
>
> For a small company, focusing on core competencies is a really good thing, 
> and the one thing RunRev unquestionably does better than anyone else in the 
> world is a best-in-class cross-platform desktop software dev environment.
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Josh Mellicker]

With all sympathies to those who are understandably deeply disappointed, there 
is a silver lining to this news:


On May 10, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:

> ...we are ...focusing on developing significant and exciting enhancements to 
> the Rev platform. We have many exciting projects in the pipeline including an 
> overhaul to our Unicode support, enhanced text display...

If this pipeline also includes improving core functionality of the desktop IDE, 
from things like the player object to widgets to fixing bugs, as well as more 
focus on feature parity for Linux, it could end up being great for all of us.

For a small company, focusing on core competencies is a really good thing, and 
the one thing RunRev unquestionably does better than anyone else in the world 
is a best-in-class cross-platform desktop software dev environment.




On May 10, 2010, at 10:46 AM, Jerry Daniels wrote:

> We've broken haggis together.


Then you've gone further than I ever would :-)


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Android over iPad (was RE: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement)

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Kevin and team have shown their resilience and brilliance in 
> the transformation department with their announcement today. 
> They've adjusted their roadmap and their offering to keep us 
> all in the game.  
> They have my thanks, trust, and admiration. And my business 
> going forward.

I completely agree, Jerry.

The iPhone family of products represent a very attractive consumer platform.
We cannot expect iPad users to understand the issues around Steve Jobs war
on cross platform tools - just talk with your non computer industry friends
who also happen to use an iPhone about it (guess what I did on Mother's
Day). The iPad today is still the product it was yesterday - except now we
know our Rev projects won't be on it.

Just as Steve Jobs has his business reasons for making his decisions, so do
you as software vendors.

I don't think you should go out and burn your iPhone and iPad.  But just
like Steve Jobs, you should also consider your business as well. Support
RevMobile on Android. Plan for it. Help make it happen. Make the words
"HyperCard" and "Runrev" and "Android" appear often in your blogs, twitter
posts and facebook updates. 

I don't suggest this for reasons other than business reasons. Supporting a
platform where you can deploy your applications, which makes it possible for
more copies of your applications to be sold.

Ive already made a blog update to this effect, it isnt much more than you
already know:
http://www.lynnfredricks.com/2010/05/10/no-hypercard-for-the-ipad-watch-for-
hypercard-on-android/



Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Mirye Software Publishing
http://www.mirye.com

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RE: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Randall Lee Reetz]

I would have loved to have instead heard apple's reaction to the prospect that 
runrev would output clean well formed objective C source that would be compiled 
in apples blessed and native IDE. Of course apple would want to developed its 
own xtalk environment for the ipad.  They own the domain!  They invented it!  
What did you think they would say?  Nuts!

-Original Message-
From: Jerry Daniels 
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 10:46 AM
To: How to Use Revolution ; Improvements to 
Revolution 
Subject: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

As we all know, the very definition of a personal computer has changed  
radically over the last year. Personal computing devices are becoming  
more personal and more mobile. This transformation has accelerated  
dramatically in the last month.

Every technology company on our little planet is changing the way they  
do business to accommodate this transformation. And so is Revolution.  
Shareholders chase growth, and everyone of us who have bought a  
license to Revolution desktop, On-Rev, or revMobile are, in effect  
shareholders. We don't want to be left behind.

Kevin and team have shown their resilience and brilliance in the  
transformation department with their announcement today. They've  
adjusted their roadmap and their offering to keep us all in the game.  
They have my thanks, trust, and admiration. And my business going  
forward.

I have done business with Kevin over the last decade as his  
contractor, vendor, customer and friend. I spent a few days with him  
and Mark in Edinburgh working on a project. We've broken bread, curry  
and haggis together. I known these guys. I like doing business with  
them and I like where they're going.

I bought the great revMobile pre-alpha along with the conference, the  
DVDs, the works. I do not want or expect a refund just because a part  
it will not be delivered as hoped. Even if I had bought within the  
last 30 days I would not want anything. I'm getting a good product and  
value for my money. I have no concerns. I know I'll get preferential  
treatment with any new mobility platforms Kevin an Mark do.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Using Revolution technology to create iPad web apps:
http://rodeoapps.com
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Matthias Rebbe]

I couldn´t have said it better.

Matthias

Am 10.05.2010 um 19:46 schrieb Jerry Daniels:

> As we all know, the very definition of a personal computer has changed 
> radically over the last year. Personal computing devices are becoming more 
> personal and more mobile. This transformation has accelerated dramatically in 
> the last month.
> 
> Every technology company on our little planet is changing the way they do 
> business to accommodate this transformation. And so is Revolution. 
> Shareholders chase growth, and everyone of us who have bought a license to 
> Revolution desktop, On-Rev, or revMobile are, in effect shareholders. We 
> don't want to be left behind.
> 
> Kevin and team have shown their resilience and brilliance in the 
> transformation department with their announcement today. They've adjusted 
> their roadmap and their offering to keep us all in the game. They have my 
> thanks, trust, and admiration. And my business going forward.
> 
> I have done business with Kevin over the last decade as his contractor, 
> vendor, customer and friend. I spent a few days with him and Mark in 
> Edinburgh working on a project. We've broken bread, curry and haggis 
> together. I known these guys. I like doing business with them and I like 
> where they're going.
> 
> I bought the great revMobile pre-alpha along with the conference, the DVDs, 
> the works. I do not want or expect a refund just because a part it will not 
> be delivered as hoped. Even if I had bought within the last 30 days I would 
> not want anything. I'm getting a good product and value for my money. I have 
> no concerns. I know I'll get preferential treatment with any new mobility 
> platforms Kevin an Mark do.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jerry Daniels
> 
> Using Revolution technology to create iPad web apps:
> http://rodeoapps.com
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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[Thomas McGrath III]

This is good for you Jerry. I hope you keep getting preferential treatment. I, 
however, do not. 

I do expect a rebate or discount for my loss.

Tom McGrath

On May 10, 2010, at 1:46 PM, Jerry Daniels wrote:
> I bought the great revMobile pre-alpha along with the conference, the DVDs, 
> the works. I do not want or expect a refund just because a part it will not 
> be delivered as hoped. Even if I had bought within the last 30 days I would 
> not want anything. I'm getting a good product and value for my money. I have 
> no concerns. I know I'll get preferential treatment with any new mobility 
> platforms Kevin an Mark do.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jerry Daniels
> 
> Using Revolution technology to create iPad web apps:
> http://rodeoapps.com

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Re: Thoughts on Kevin's announcement

[David C.]

> Kevin and team have shown their resilience and brilliance in the
> transformation department with their announcement today. They've adjusted
> their roadmap and their offering to keep us all in the game. They have my
> thanks, trust, and admiration. And my business going forward.

Well said and I am in complete agreement.

iPhone & iPad's loss is just Androids gain.

...I now know what my next phone/mobile device will be powered by. ;-)

Best regards,
David C.
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