RE: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Keith Gable]

IE 8 is very old. If you're on an operating system where IE 8 is the newest IE 
available, you're going to be out of support in April unless you throw money at 
Microsoft. IE 9 should work.

Sent from my Windows Phone

From: Jason Winshell<mailto:ja...@jasonwinshell.com>
Sent: ‎2/‎18/‎2014 12:12
To: user@couchdb.apache.org<mailto:user@couchdb.apache.org>
Subject: Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

Thanks.

The bug is in futon.js in the page source, line 269: "Object doesn't support 
this property or method"


} else if (userCtx.roles.indexOf("_admin") != -1) {  // bug is here for IE
$("#userCtx .adminparty").show();
$(".serverAdmin").removeAttr('disabled');
} else {
$("#userCtx .loggedout").show();
};

IE does not support indexOf on array objects. The code need to special case for 
IE.

I suspect this is the page code the creates the login/sign in link. Now that 
I've found the problem, what do I do? Report it where? And of course, how can I 
get a fix into a new build. I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand how a 
bug like this could go undetected in an official release.

It's essential that Futon work with IE. Corporate and government installations 
dictate the what software is installed on machines. A user would not be allowed 
to install a Couch compatible browser.

Thanks

Jason

On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Garren Smith  wrote:

> Jason, could you also have a look at the IE developer console and report any 
> errors it shows. You might have to enable the developer console and then 
> reload the page for any errors to show.
>
>
> On 18 Feb 2014, at 10:45 AM, Nick North  wrote:
>
>> CouchDb is fully tested only against Firefox, and there are no guarantees
>> with other browsers. That said, most things work in IE and I can see the
>> link with IE10 on Windows 7, with that same version of CouchDb. It also
>> works fine with Windows 8 and IE11 so I suspect it's specific to earlier IE
>> versions, or else there is something unusual with your setup. Are you able
>> to try it with a later version of IE? That might tell us something.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>>
>> On 17 February 2014 22:47, Jason Winshell  wrote:
>>
>>> I am running CouchDB 1.5 Windows (x86) Erlang/OTP R16B01. After creating
>>> an admin user in local.ini, the login/signup link does not appear on the
>>> Futon Overview page when using Internet Explorer 8 (perhaps other
>>> versions). It works fine with Firefox on Windows. Without the link, logging
>>> in is not possible. I can create as many users as I want with Firefox. I
>>> never see a login link on the Overview page with IE. I suspect some
>>> Javascript compatibility weirdness. What's the story?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>
>

RE: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Keith Gable]

> From: ziggythehams...@outlook.com
> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8
> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 20:26:51 -0600
>
> This ought to be a simple fix if Futon otherwise works. Somebody surely has 
> written an indexOf polyfill.

And it was. See this pull: https://github.com/apache/couchdb/pull/153

:)

RE: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Keith Gable]

> From: jas...@bearriver.com
> Subject: Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8
> Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 18:16:33 -0800
> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
>
> Windows 7. IE 8.
> ..
>

Ouch. Well, you certainly _can_ use IE9 on that platform, and I tell my 
enterprise customers to upgrade to the latest IE for our software and they have 
no qualms with that. But, obviously, some enterprises have old crappy ActiveX 
intranet apps they have to support, and those don't work well in IE9+.

This ought to be a simple fix if Futon otherwise works. Somebody surely has 
written an indexOf polyfill.  

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Jason Winshell]

Windows 7. IE 8.
..


On Feb 18, 2014, at 6:09 PM, Keith Gable  wrote:

> IE8 is the most recently supported IE on Windows XP. If you’re developing 
> software for Windows XP, you should know that Microsoft is stopping all 
> support (unless you have loads of cash) in April.
> 
> 
> If you’re on Vista or newer, you can run IE9, which does work fine.
> 
> 
> That said, it sounds like a simple patch to make.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Jason Winshell
> Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎February‎ ‎18‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎12‎ ‎PM
> To: CouchDB User Mailing List
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jens,
> 
> Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the low-bandwidth 
> situation of the folks who generously contribute their time. Nonetheless, IE 
> is the browser used by government and many corporations. This is not a matter 
> of what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of life. I as a 
> contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those environments. IT 
> staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use curl 
> (assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a 
> database. CouchDB has to have browser admin UI that is compatible with IE, 
> Chrome and Firefox. IE being the most important even if is not the choice of 
> developers. I'm presented with such frustrating realities every day in my 
> work for big companies and government. I'm sure there are plenty of folks on 
> the user and developer list who deal with that.
> 
> I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases. What 
> is the test regression process? I got hung up by a serious bug (which I 
> didn't know was a bug) last week in the Mac OS 1.5 build that I got off the 
> web site. I found that modest size attachments (e.g. 3MB) took 20-25 seconds 
> to upload, regardless of the technique. I ran the same test on Windows and 
> found no problems, under a second, barely measurable. One the contributors, 
> who respond to my post on the user forum, said the bug been identified and 
> fixed in a branch, but not yet posted as a 1.5 patch build. The Mac is not my 
> production platform, but I develop all my code on it. Do you know when/how 
> the bug fix (by the way, what is the bug) will be posted to an official build?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Jens Alfke  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 10:11 AM, Jason Winshell  wrote:
>> 
>>> I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand how a bug like this could go 
>>> undetected in an official release.
>> 
>> Because the CouchDB contributors don't have the bandwidth to test the admin 
>> UI (which is obviously lower priority than the core database) on every 
>> version of every browser?
>> 
>> (Also, I'll bet there's a low correlation between people who work on or use 
>> CouchDB and people who use MSIE, so this kind of bug wouldn't get noticed 
>> very often.)
>> 
>> The thing I find odd is that the one browser CouchDB is officially tested 
>> with is Firefox, not Chrome, when Chrome has about twice the market share of 
>> Firefox or MSIE[1] and is based on {something still very close to} WebKit, 
>> which has about 80% of mobile market share[2].
>> 
>> I'm guessing the choice of which browser to support/test with was made early 
>> on, maybe 5 years ago, when Firefox was more dominant and MSIE was still in 
>> terrible shape.
>> 
>>> It's essential that Futon work with IE. Corporate and government 
>>> installations dictate the what software is installed on machines. A user 
>>> would not be allowed to install a Couch compatible browser.
>> 
>> Futon's not an essential part of CouchDB. It doesn't do anything you can't 
>> do through the REST API. As long as users are allowed to install 'curl' 
>> they'll be OK ;-)
>> 
>> —Jens
>> 
>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Summary_table
>> [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/mobile-browser-share-2013-11

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Keith Gable]

IE8 is the most recently supported IE on Windows XP. If you’re developing 
software for Windows XP, you should know that Microsoft is stopping all support 
(unless you have loads of cash) in April.


If you’re on Vista or newer, you can run IE9, which does work fine.


That said, it sounds like a simple patch to make.






From: Jason Winshell
Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎February‎ ‎18‎, ‎2014 ‎2‎:‎12‎ ‎PM
To: CouchDB User Mailing List





Jens,

Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the low-bandwidth 
situation of the folks who generously contribute their time. Nonetheless, IE is 
the browser used by government and many corporations. This is not a matter of 
what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of life. I as a 
contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those environments. IT 
staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use curl 
(assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a database. 
CouchDB has to have browser admin UI that is compatible with IE, Chrome and 
Firefox. IE being the most important even if is not the choice of developers. 
I'm presented with such frustrating realities every day in my work for big 
companies and government. I'm sure there are plenty of folks on the user and 
developer list who deal with that.

I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases. What is 
the test regression process? I got hung up by a serious bug (which I didn't 
know was a bug) last week in the Mac OS 1.5 build that I got off the web site. 
I found that modest size attachments (e.g. 3MB) took 20-25 seconds to upload, 
regardless of the technique. I ran the same test on Windows and found no 
problems, under a second, barely measurable. One the contributors, who respond 
to my post on the user forum, said the bug been identified and fixed in a 
branch, but not yet posted as a 1.5 patch build. The Mac is not my production 
platform, but I develop all my code on it. Do you know when/how the bug fix (by 
the way, what is the bug) will be posted to an official build?

Thanks

Jason


On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Jens Alfke  wrote:

> 
> On Feb 18, 2014, at 10:11 AM, Jason Winshell  wrote:
> 
>> I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand how a bug like this could go 
>> undetected in an official release.
> 
> Because the CouchDB contributors don't have the bandwidth to test the admin 
> UI (which is obviously lower priority than the core database) on every 
> version of every browser?
> 
> (Also, I'll bet there's a low correlation between people who work on or use 
> CouchDB and people who use MSIE, so this kind of bug wouldn't get noticed 
> very often.)
> 
> The thing I find odd is that the one browser CouchDB is officially tested 
> with is Firefox, not Chrome, when Chrome has about twice the market share of 
> Firefox or MSIE[1] and is based on {something still very close to} WebKit, 
> which has about 80% of mobile market share[2].
> 
> I'm guessing the choice of which browser to support/test with was made early 
> on, maybe 5 years ago, when Firefox was more dominant and MSIE was still in 
> terrible shape.
> 
>> It's essential that Futon work with IE. Corporate and government 
>> installations dictate the what software is installed on machines. A user 
>> would not be allowed to install a Couch compatible browser.
> 
> Futon's not an essential part of CouchDB. It doesn't do anything you can't do 
> through the REST API. As long as users are allowed to install 'curl' they'll 
> be OK ;-)
> 
> —Jens
> 
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Summary_table
> [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/mobile-browser-share-2013-11

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Robert Samuel Newson]

I’d rather focus on what Fauxton is missing, since the plan is to remove Futon 
as soon as we can.

I agree that we should be responsive to users unless supporting IE 8 is a 
significant burden (I’ve no idea tbh, I’m aware there’s an epoch that IE 
reached where supporting it wasn’t as onerous as usual, is that 8?) but it’s 
still true that this a volunteer project with very few Windows users (accessing 
the admin UI from Windows is much less controversial than running our database 
on Windows, at least!). I don’t think the OP was *demanding* IE 8 support as 
strongly as it could be read, and I think it’s clear from follow up comments 
that we all know that demands are neither appropriate or effective.

B.

On 18 Feb 2014, at 22:08, Nick North  wrote:

> I'm glad there is a work-around. It's not great, but it's better than
> nothing.
> 
> While Matt is right that we don't *have* to do anything, if CouchDb is to
> thrive we should take notice of user requirements. I honestly don't think
> there has been any call for IE8 support before: the Windows CouchDb
> community is not large and those of us who use it in corporate environments
> must be doing it in companies that have moved to later versions or have
> other browsers available.
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> On 18 February 2014 21:03, Jason Winshell  wrote:
> 
>> Nick,
>> 
>> Fauxton works. I can then switch to Futon to change passwords and create
>> new users. It looks like the problem is limited to showing a login/signup
>> link on the Futon landing page. Going to Fauxton first is a viable approach
>> for our users.
>> 
>> Thanks so much.
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Nick North  wrote:
>> 
>>> Have you tried the Fauxton interface? That's experimental but might be
>>> worth a try. Go to .../_utils/fauxton/index.html and you should have an
>>> icon of a person at the bottom left of the browser which you can click on
>>> to log in. This works for me in IE11, but I don't have an IE8
>> installation
>>> to test on.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 18 February 2014 20:42, matt j. sorenson 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Jason Winshell  wrote:
 
> Jens,
> 
> Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the
>> low-bandwidth
> situation of the folks who generously contribute their time.
>> Nonetheless,
> IE is the browser used by government and many corporations. This is
>> not a
> matter of what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of
>> life.
 I
> as a contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those
 environments.
> IT staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use
 curl
> (assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a
> database. CouchDB has to have
> 
 
 Got to cut you off there... open source projects don't *have* to do
 anything the project's community doesn't elect to do, they don't even
>> have
 to continue existing. If making bizarre urgent demands of technology is
 how government contracting has conditioned you to cope with problems,
>> there
 are plenty of commercial database alternatives who'd no doubt appreciate
 your dollars.
 
 
> I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases.
> What is the test regression process?
> 
 
 Here's where you can help - earlier in the thread I alluded to just one
>> of
 many possible ways that QA could be improved to alleviate cross-browser
 woes, but it doesn't automagically happen. If you want to see
>> improvements,
 stop waxing pathetic about /gub'ment this/ and /draconian IT that/...
>> and
 instead resolve to contribute.
 
 
 
 
 DISCLAIMER: All positions and opinions expressed here-in are Matt's and
 Matt's alone, and may not represent the CouchDB project, it's
>> committers,
 or it's sponsors.
 
 --matt
 
>> 
>> 

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Nick North]

I'm glad there is a work-around. It's not great, but it's better than
nothing.

While Matt is right that we don't *have* to do anything, if CouchDb is to
thrive we should take notice of user requirements. I honestly don't think
there has been any call for IE8 support before: the Windows CouchDb
community is not large and those of us who use it in corporate environments
must be doing it in companies that have moved to later versions or have
other browsers available.

Nick


On 18 February 2014 21:03, Jason Winshell  wrote:

> Nick,
>
> Fauxton works. I can then switch to Futon to change passwords and create
> new users. It looks like the problem is limited to showing a login/signup
> link on the Futon landing page. Going to Fauxton first is a viable approach
> for our users.
>
> Thanks so much.
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Nick North  wrote:
>
> > Have you tried the Fauxton interface? That's experimental but might be
> > worth a try. Go to .../_utils/fauxton/index.html and you should have an
> > icon of a person at the bottom left of the browser which you can click on
> > to log in. This works for me in IE11, but I don't have an IE8
> installation
> > to test on.
> >
> >
> > On 18 February 2014 20:42, matt j. sorenson 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Jason Winshell  >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Jens,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the
> low-bandwidth
> >>> situation of the folks who generously contribute their time.
> Nonetheless,
> >>> IE is the browser used by government and many corporations. This is
> not a
> >>> matter of what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of
> life.
> >> I
> >>> as a contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those
> >> environments.
> >>> IT staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use
> >> curl
> >>> (assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a
> >>> database. CouchDB has to have
> >>>
> >>
> >> Got to cut you off there... open source projects don't *have* to do
> >> anything the project's community doesn't elect to do, they don't even
> have
> >> to continue existing. If making bizarre urgent demands of technology is
> >> how government contracting has conditioned you to cope with problems,
> there
> >> are plenty of commercial database alternatives who'd no doubt appreciate
> >> your dollars.
> >>
> >>
> >>> I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases.
> >>> What is the test regression process?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Here's where you can help - earlier in the thread I alluded to just one
> of
> >> many possible ways that QA could be improved to alleviate cross-browser
> >> woes, but it doesn't automagically happen. If you want to see
> improvements,
> >> stop waxing pathetic about /gub'ment this/ and /draconian IT that/...
> and
> >> instead resolve to contribute.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> DISCLAIMER: All positions and opinions expressed here-in are Matt's and
> >> Matt's alone, and may not represent the CouchDB project, it's
> committers,
> >> or it's sponsors.
> >>
> >> --matt
> >>
>
>

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Jason Winshell]

Nick,

Fauxton works. I can then switch to Futon to change passwords and create new 
users. It looks like the problem is limited to showing a login/signup link on 
the Futon landing page. Going to Fauxton first is a viable approach for our 
users.

Thanks so much.

Jason


On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Nick North  wrote:

> Have you tried the Fauxton interface? That's experimental but might be
> worth a try. Go to .../_utils/fauxton/index.html and you should have an
> icon of a person at the bottom left of the browser which you can click on
> to log in. This works for me in IE11, but I don't have an IE8 installation
> to test on.
> 
> 
> On 18 February 2014 20:42, matt j. sorenson  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Jason Winshell >> wrote:
>> 
>>> Jens,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the low-bandwidth
>>> situation of the folks who generously contribute their time. Nonetheless,
>>> IE is the browser used by government and many corporations. This is not a
>>> matter of what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of life.
>> I
>>> as a contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those
>> environments.
>>> IT staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use
>> curl
>>> (assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a
>>> database. CouchDB has to have
>>> 
>> 
>> Got to cut you off there... open source projects don't *have* to do
>> anything the project's community doesn't elect to do, they don't even have
>> to continue existing. If making bizarre urgent demands of technology is
>> how government contracting has conditioned you to cope with problems, there
>> are plenty of commercial database alternatives who'd no doubt appreciate
>> your dollars.
>> 
>> 
>>> I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases.
>>> What is the test regression process?
>>> 
>> 
>> Here's where you can help - earlier in the thread I alluded to just one of
>> many possible ways that QA could be improved to alleviate cross-browser
>> woes, but it doesn't automagically happen. If you want to see improvements,
>> stop waxing pathetic about /gub'ment this/ and /draconian IT that/... and
>> instead resolve to contribute.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> DISCLAIMER: All positions and opinions expressed here-in are Matt's and
>> Matt's alone, and may not represent the CouchDB project, it's committers,
>> or it's sponsors.
>> 
>> --matt
>> 

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Andy Wenk]

On 18 February 2014 21:55, Nick North  wrote:

> Have you tried the Fauxton interface? That's experimental but might be
> worth a try. Go to .../_utils/fauxton/index.html and you should have an
> icon of a person at the bottom left of the browser which you can click on
> to log in. This works for me in IE11, but I don't have an IE8 installation
> to test on.


just because it comes to my mind. here are free available windows VM's with
the different Windows versions and IE's

http://www.modern.ie/en-us/virtualization-tools



>
> On 18 February 2014 20:42, matt j. sorenson  wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Jason Winshell  > >wrote:
> >
> > > Jens,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the
> low-bandwidth
> > > situation of the folks who generously contribute their time.
> Nonetheless,
> > > IE is the browser used by government and many corporations. This is
> not a
> > > matter of what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of
> life.
> > I
> > > as a contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those
> > environments.
> > > IT staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use
> > curl
> > > (assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a
> > > database. CouchDB has to have
> > >
> >
> > Got to cut you off there... open source projects don't *have* to do
> > anything the project's community doesn't elect to do, they don't even
> have
> > to continue existing. If making bizarre urgent demands of technology is
> > how government contracting has conditioned you to cope with problems,
> there
> > are plenty of commercial database alternatives who'd no doubt appreciate
> > your dollars.
> >
> >
> > > I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases.
> > > What is the test regression process?
> > >
> >
> > Here's where you can help - earlier in the thread I alluded to just one
> of
> > many possible ways that QA could be improved to alleviate cross-browser
> > woes, but it doesn't automagically happen. If you want to see
> improvements,
> > stop waxing pathetic about /gub'ment this/ and /draconian IT that/... and
> > instead resolve to contribute.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > DISCLAIMER: All positions and opinions expressed here-in are Matt's and
> > Matt's alone, and may not represent the CouchDB project, it's committers,
> > or it's sponsors.
> >
> > --matt
> >
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

http://www.couchdb-buch.de
http://www.pg-praxisbuch.de

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Andy Wenk]

On 18 February 2014 21:11, Jason Winshell  wrote:

> Jens,
>
> Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the low-bandwidth
> situation of the folks who generously contribute their time. Nonetheless,
> IE is the browser used by government and many corporations. This is not a
> matter of what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of life. I
> as a contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those environments.
> IT staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use curl
> (assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a
> database. CouchDB has to have browser admin UI that is compatible with IE,
> Chrome and Firefox. IE being the most important even if is not the choice
> of developers. I'm presented with such frustrating realities every day in
> my work for big companies and government. I'm sure there are plenty of
> folks on the user and developer list who deal with that.
>

I can understand your point of view. Please file a ticket here and please
be a little patient until someone picks it up to solve the problem:

https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB

I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases.
> What is the test regression process? I got hung up by a serious bug (which
> I didn't know was a bug) last week in the Mac OS 1.5 build that I got off
> the web site. I found that modest size attachments (e.g. 3MB) took 20-25
> seconds to upload, regardless of the technique. I ran the same test on
> Windows and found no problems, under a second, barely measurable. One the
> contributors, who respond to my post on the user forum, said the bug been
> identified and fixed in a branch, but not yet posted as a 1.5 patch build.
> The Mac is not my production platform, but I develop all my code on it. Do
> you know when/how the bug fix (by the way, what is the bug) will be posted
> to an official build?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jason
>

Dirkjan is the one who is creating release candidates. The whole CoucHDB
community is the asked to test the candidate and vote for the release. This
time CouchDB 1.6 is still hold back because of bug which is hard to fix and
the lack of time.



> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Jens Alfke  wrote:
>
> >
> > On Feb 18, 2014, at 10:11 AM, Jason Winshell 
> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand how a bug like this could
> go undetected in an official release.
> >
> > Because the CouchDB contributors don't have the bandwidth to test the
> admin UI (which is obviously lower priority than the core database) on
> every version of every browser?
> >
> > (Also, I'll bet there's a low correlation between people who work on or
> use CouchDB and people who use MSIE, so this kind of bug wouldn't get
> noticed very often.)
> >
> > The thing I find odd is that the one browser CouchDB is officially
> tested with is Firefox, not Chrome, when Chrome has about twice the market
> share of Firefox or MSIE[1] and is based on {something still very close to}
> WebKit, which has about 80% of mobile market share[2].
> >
> > I'm guessing the choice of which browser to support/test with was made
> early on, maybe 5 years ago, when Firefox was more dominant and MSIE was
> still in terrible shape.
> >
> >> It's essential that Futon work with IE. Corporate and government
> installations dictate the what software is installed on machines. A user
> would not be allowed to install a Couch compatible browser.
> >
> > Futon's not an essential part of CouchDB. It doesn't do anything you
> can't do through the REST API. As long as users are allowed to install
> 'curl' they'll be OK ;-)
> >
> > —Jens
> >
> > [1]
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Summary_table
> > [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/mobile-browser-share-2013-11
>
>
Cheers

Andy

-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

http://www.couchdb-buch.de
http://www.pg-praxisbuch.de

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Nick North]

Have you tried the Fauxton interface? That's experimental but might be
worth a try. Go to .../_utils/fauxton/index.html and you should have an
icon of a person at the bottom left of the browser which you can click on
to log in. This works for me in IE11, but I don't have an IE8 installation
to test on.


On 18 February 2014 20:42, matt j. sorenson  wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Jason Winshell  >wrote:
>
> > Jens,
> >
> > Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the low-bandwidth
> > situation of the folks who generously contribute their time. Nonetheless,
> > IE is the browser used by government and many corporations. This is not a
> > matter of what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of life.
> I
> > as a contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those
> environments.
> > IT staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use
> curl
> > (assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a
> > database. CouchDB has to have
> >
>
> Got to cut you off there... open source projects don't *have* to do
> anything the project's community doesn't elect to do, they don't even have
> to continue existing. If making bizarre urgent demands of technology is
> how government contracting has conditioned you to cope with problems, there
> are plenty of commercial database alternatives who'd no doubt appreciate
> your dollars.
>
>
> > I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases.
> > What is the test regression process?
> >
>
> Here's where you can help - earlier in the thread I alluded to just one of
> many possible ways that QA could be improved to alleviate cross-browser
> woes, but it doesn't automagically happen. If you want to see improvements,
> stop waxing pathetic about /gub'ment this/ and /draconian IT that/... and
> instead resolve to contribute.
>
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER: All positions and opinions expressed here-in are Matt's and
> Matt's alone, and may not represent the CouchDB project, it's committers,
> or it's sponsors.
>
> --matt
>

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Jason Winshell]

Matt,

I appreciate your response as well and understand where you are coming from. I 
have to make these inquiries as part of carrying out my job. I need gauge the 
risks in depending an open source solution, whether it's Couch or MongoDB. I 
have great respect for all the developers that contribute to open source 
endeavors.

Best regards,

Jason

On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:42 PM, matt j. sorenson  wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Jason Winshell wrote:
> 
>> Jens,
>> 
>> Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the low-bandwidth
>> situation of the folks who generously contribute their time. Nonetheless,
>> IE is the browser used by government and many corporations. This is not a
>> matter of what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of life. I
>> as a contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those environments.
>> IT staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use curl
>> (assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a
>> database. CouchDB has to have
>> 
> 
> Got to cut you off there... open source projects don't *have* to do
> anything the project's community doesn't elect to do, they don't even have
> to continue existing. If making bizarre urgent demands of technology is
> how government contracting has conditioned you to cope with problems, there
> are plenty of commercial database alternatives who'd no doubt appreciate
> your dollars.
> 
> 
>> I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases.
>> What is the test regression process?
>> 
> 
> Here's where you can help - earlier in the thread I alluded to just one of
> many possible ways that QA could be improved to alleviate cross-browser
> woes, but it doesn't automagically happen. If you want to see improvements,
> stop waxing pathetic about /gub'ment this/ and /draconian IT that/... and
> instead resolve to contribute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DISCLAIMER: All positions and opinions expressed here-in are Matt's and
> Matt's alone, and may not represent the CouchDB project, it's committers,
> or it's sponsors.
> 
> --matt

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[matt j. sorenson]

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 2:11 PM, Jason Winshell wrote:

> Jens,
>
> Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the low-bandwidth
> situation of the folks who generously contribute their time. Nonetheless,
> IE is the browser used by government and many corporations. This is not a
> matter of what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of life. I
> as a contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those environments.
> IT staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use curl
> (assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a
> database. CouchDB has to have
>

Got to cut you off there... open source projects don't *have* to do
anything the project's community doesn't elect to do, they don't even have
to continue existing. If making bizarre urgent demands of technology is
how government contracting has conditioned you to cope with problems, there
are plenty of commercial database alternatives who'd no doubt appreciate
your dollars.


> I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases.
> What is the test regression process?
>

Here's where you can help - earlier in the thread I alluded to just one of
many possible ways that QA could be improved to alleviate cross-browser
woes, but it doesn't automagically happen. If you want to see improvements,
stop waxing pathetic about /gub'ment this/ and /draconian IT that/... and
instead resolve to contribute.




DISCLAIMER: All positions and opinions expressed here-in are Matt's and
Matt's alone, and may not represent the CouchDB project, it's committers,
or it's sponsors.

--matt

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Jason Winshell]

Jens,

Thanks for the speedy response. I certainly appreciate the low-bandwidth 
situation of the folks who generously contribute their time. Nonetheless, IE is 
the browser used by government and many corporations. This is not a matter of 
what browser is better than another. It's just a fact of life. I as a 
contractor, don't get to dictate the tools used in those environments. IT 
staff, like database administrators are absolutely not going to use curl 
(assuming it's even allowed to be installed on machines) to manage a database. 
CouchDB has to have browser admin UI that is compatible with IE, Chrome and 
Firefox. IE being the most important even if is not the choice of developers. 
I'm presented with such frustrating realities every day in my work for big 
companies and government. I'm sure there are plenty of folks on the user and 
developer list who deal with that.

I'm curious as to what the QA process is for posting official releases. What is 
the test regression process? I got hung up by a serious bug (which I didn't 
know was a bug) last week in the Mac OS 1.5 build that I got off the web site. 
I found that modest size attachments (e.g. 3MB) took 20-25 seconds to upload, 
regardless of the technique. I ran the same test on Windows and found no 
problems, under a second, barely measurable. One the contributors, who respond 
to my post on the user forum, said the bug been identified and fixed in a 
branch, but not yet posted as a 1.5 patch build. The Mac is not my production 
platform, but I develop all my code on it. Do you know when/how the bug fix (by 
the way, what is the bug) will be posted to an official build?

Thanks

Jason


On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:04 AM, Jens Alfke  wrote:

> 
> On Feb 18, 2014, at 10:11 AM, Jason Winshell  wrote:
> 
>> I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand how a bug like this could go 
>> undetected in an official release.
> 
> Because the CouchDB contributors don't have the bandwidth to test the admin 
> UI (which is obviously lower priority than the core database) on every 
> version of every browser?
> 
> (Also, I'll bet there's a low correlation between people who work on or use 
> CouchDB and people who use MSIE, so this kind of bug wouldn't get noticed 
> very often.)
> 
> The thing I find odd is that the one browser CouchDB is officially tested 
> with is Firefox, not Chrome, when Chrome has about twice the market share of 
> Firefox or MSIE[1] and is based on {something still very close to} WebKit, 
> which has about 80% of mobile market share[2].
> 
> I'm guessing the choice of which browser to support/test with was made early 
> on, maybe 5 years ago, when Firefox was more dominant and MSIE was still in 
> terrible shape.
> 
>> It's essential that Futon work with IE. Corporate and government 
>> installations dictate the what software is installed on machines. A user 
>> would not be allowed to install a Couch compatible browser.
> 
> Futon's not an essential part of CouchDB. It doesn't do anything you can't do 
> through the REST API. As long as users are allowed to install 'curl' they'll 
> be OK ;-)
> 
> —Jens
> 
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Summary_table
> [2] http://www.businessinsider.com/mobile-browser-share-2013-11

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Andy Wenk]

On 18 February 2014 20:38, matt j. sorenson  wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Jens Alfke  wrote:
>
> >
> > On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Robert Samuel Newson 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Patches welcome.
> >
> > More specifically, to help the OP get started if he's having trouble
> > finding resources, the CouchDB home page  has
> > direct links to
> > the Jira bug tracker: http://s.apache.org/Bni
> > the GitHub repository: https://github.com/apache/couchdb
> > and the Contributor Guide:
> > http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/ContributorWorkflow
> >
> > --Jens
>
> If I'm not mistaken, browserstack and sauce labs both provide free testing
> services to open source projects. Of course, test rigs don't set themselves
> up :/
>
> --Matt
>

Matt this is a info with great value! It would be awesome if someone would
take the opportunity to dive a little deeper into this:

https://saucelabs.com/opensauce

Cheers

Andy

-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

http://www.couchdb-buch.de
http://www.pg-praxisbuch.de

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[matt j. sorenson]

On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Jens Alfke  wrote:

>
> On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Robert Samuel Newson 
> wrote:
>
> > Patches welcome.
>
> More specifically, to help the OP get started if he's having trouble
> finding resources, the CouchDB home page  has
> direct links to
> the Jira bug tracker: http://s.apache.org/Bni
> the GitHub repository: https://github.com/apache/couchdb
> and the Contributor Guide:
> http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/ContributorWorkflow
>
> --Jens



If I'm not mistaken, browserstack and sauce labs both provide free testing
services to open source projects. Of course, test rigs don't set themselves
up :/

--Matt

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Jens Alfke]

On Feb 18, 2014, at 11:09 AM, Robert Samuel Newson  wrote:

> Patches welcome.

More specifically, to help the OP get started if he's having trouble finding 
resources, the CouchDB home page  has direct links to
the Jira bug tracker: http://s.apache.org/Bni
the GitHub repository: https://github.com/apache/couchdb
and the Contributor Guide: 
http://wiki.apache.org/couchdb/ContributorWorkflow

—Jens

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Robert Samuel Newson]

Patches welcome.

On 18 Feb 2014, at 18:11, Jason Winshell  wrote:

> Thanks. 
> 
> The bug is in futon.js in the page source, line 269: "Object doesn't support 
> this property or method"
> 
> 
> } else if (userCtx.roles.indexOf("_admin") != -1) {  // bug is here for IE
>   $("#userCtx .adminparty").show();
>   $(".serverAdmin").removeAttr('disabled');
> } else {
>   $("#userCtx .loggedout").show();
> };
> 
> IE does not support indexOf on array objects. The code need to special case 
> for IE.
> 
> I suspect this is the page code the creates the login/sign in link. Now that 
> I've found the problem, what do I do? Report it where? And of course, how can 
> I get a fix into a new build. I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand how 
> a bug like this could go undetected in an official release.
> 
> It's essential that Futon work with IE. Corporate and government 
> installations dictate the what software is installed on machines. A user 
> would not be allowed to install a Couch compatible browser.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jason
> 
> On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Garren Smith  wrote:
> 
>> Jason, could you also have a look at the IE developer console and report any 
>> errors it shows. You might have to enable the developer console and then 
>> reload the page for any errors to show.
>> 
>> 
>> On 18 Feb 2014, at 10:45 AM, Nick North  wrote:
>> 
>>> CouchDb is fully tested only against Firefox, and there are no guarantees
>>> with other browsers. That said, most things work in IE and I can see the
>>> link with IE10 on Windows 7, with that same version of CouchDb. It also
>>> works fine with Windows 8 and IE11 so I suspect it's specific to earlier IE
>>> versions, or else there is something unusual with your setup. Are you able
>>> to try it with a later version of IE? That might tell us something.
>>> 
>>> Nick
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 17 February 2014 22:47, Jason Winshell  wrote:
>>> 
 I am running CouchDB 1.5 Windows (x86) Erlang/OTP R16B01. After creating
 an admin user in local.ini, the login/signup link does not appear on the
 Futon Overview page when using Internet Explorer 8 (perhaps other
 versions). It works fine with Firefox on Windows. Without the link, logging
 in is not possible. I can create as many users as I want with Firefox. I
 never see a login link on the Overview page with IE. I suspect some
 Javascript compatibility weirdness. What's the story?
 
 Thanks.
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Jens Alfke]

On Feb 18, 2014, at 10:11 AM, Jason Winshell  wrote:

> I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand how a bug like this could go 
> undetected in an official release.

Because the CouchDB contributors don't have the bandwidth to test the admin UI 
(which is obviously lower priority than the core database) on every version of 
every browser?

(Also, I'll bet there's a low correlation between people who work on or use 
CouchDB and people who use MSIE, so this kind of bug wouldn't get noticed very 
often.)

The thing I find odd is that the one browser CouchDB is officially tested with 
is Firefox, not Chrome, when Chrome has about twice the market share of Firefox 
or MSIE[1] and is based on {something still very close to} WebKit, which has 
about 80% of mobile market share[2].

I'm guessing the choice of which browser to support/test with was made early 
on, maybe 5 years ago, when Firefox was more dominant and MSIE was still in 
terrible shape.

> It's essential that Futon work with IE. Corporate and government 
> installations dictate the what software is installed on machines. A user 
> would not be allowed to install a Couch compatible browser.

Futon's not an essential part of CouchDB. It doesn't do anything you can't do 
through the REST API. As long as users are allowed to install 'curl' they'll be 
OK ;-)

—Jens

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers#Summary_table
[2] http://www.businessinsider.com/mobile-browser-share-2013-11

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Jason Winshell]

Thanks. 

The bug is in futon.js in the page source, line 269: "Object doesn't support 
this property or method"


} else if (userCtx.roles.indexOf("_admin") != -1) {  // bug is here for IE
$("#userCtx .adminparty").show();
$(".serverAdmin").removeAttr('disabled');
} else {
$("#userCtx .loggedout").show();
};

IE does not support indexOf on array objects. The code need to special case for 
IE.

I suspect this is the page code the creates the login/sign in link. Now that 
I've found the problem, what do I do? Report it where? And of course, how can I 
get a fix into a new build. I'm at a bit of a loss trying to understand how a 
bug like this could go undetected in an official release.

It's essential that Futon work with IE. Corporate and government installations 
dictate the what software is installed on machines. A user would not be allowed 
to install a Couch compatible browser.

Thanks

Jason

On Feb 18, 2014, at 12:49 AM, Garren Smith  wrote:

> Jason, could you also have a look at the IE developer console and report any 
> errors it shows. You might have to enable the developer console and then 
> reload the page for any errors to show.
> 
> 
> On 18 Feb 2014, at 10:45 AM, Nick North  wrote:
> 
>> CouchDb is fully tested only against Firefox, and there are no guarantees
>> with other browsers. That said, most things work in IE and I can see the
>> link with IE10 on Windows 7, with that same version of CouchDb. It also
>> works fine with Windows 8 and IE11 so I suspect it's specific to earlier IE
>> versions, or else there is something unusual with your setup. Are you able
>> to try it with a later version of IE? That might tell us something.
>> 
>> Nick
>> 
>> 
>> On 17 February 2014 22:47, Jason Winshell  wrote:
>> 
>>> I am running CouchDB 1.5 Windows (x86) Erlang/OTP R16B01. After creating
>>> an admin user in local.ini, the login/signup link does not appear on the
>>> Futon Overview page when using Internet Explorer 8 (perhaps other
>>> versions). It works fine with Firefox on Windows. Without the link, logging
>>> in is not possible. I can create as many users as I want with Firefox. I
>>> never see a login link on the Overview page with IE. I suspect some
>>> Javascript compatibility weirdness. What's the story?
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
> 
> 

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Garren Smith]

Jason, could you also have a look at the IE developer console and report any 
errors it shows. You might have to enable the developer console and then reload 
the page for any errors to show.


On 18 Feb 2014, at 10:45 AM, Nick North  wrote:

> CouchDb is fully tested only against Firefox, and there are no guarantees
> with other browsers. That said, most things work in IE and I can see the
> link with IE10 on Windows 7, with that same version of CouchDb. It also
> works fine with Windows 8 and IE11 so I suspect it's specific to earlier IE
> versions, or else there is something unusual with your setup. Are you able
> to try it with a later version of IE? That might tell us something.
> 
> Nick
> 
> 
> On 17 February 2014 22:47, Jason Winshell  wrote:
> 
>> I am running CouchDB 1.5 Windows (x86) Erlang/OTP R16B01. After creating
>> an admin user in local.ini, the login/signup link does not appear on the
>> Futon Overview page when using Internet Explorer 8 (perhaps other
>> versions). It works fine with Firefox on Windows. Without the link, logging
>> in is not possible. I can create as many users as I want with Firefox. I
>> never see a login link on the Overview page with IE. I suspect some
>> Javascript compatibility weirdness. What's the story?
>> 
>> Thanks.

Re: Login link missing in 1.5 with Window IE 8

[Nick North]

CouchDb is fully tested only against Firefox, and there are no guarantees
with other browsers. That said, most things work in IE and I can see the
link with IE10 on Windows 7, with that same version of CouchDb. It also
works fine with Windows 8 and IE11 so I suspect it's specific to earlier IE
versions, or else there is something unusual with your setup. Are you able
to try it with a later version of IE? That might tell us something.

Nick


On 17 February 2014 22:47, Jason Winshell  wrote:

> I am running CouchDB 1.5 Windows (x86) Erlang/OTP R16B01. After creating
> an admin user in local.ini, the login/signup link does not appear on the
> Futon Overview page when using Internet Explorer 8 (perhaps other
> versions). It works fine with Firefox on Windows. Without the link, logging
> in is not possible. I can create as many users as I want with Firefox. I
> never see a login link on the Overview page with IE. I suspect some
> Javascript compatibility weirdness. What's the story?
>
> Thanks.