Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
Matt, I understand how open source works, but I appreciate your comments, too. I wish I were a part of a larger group of developers so there was more time to "give back" to the community. My largest frustration lies in finding out answers to issues I come up with. It seems I spend an inordinate amount of time on that. So, I'm always looking for ideas about better ways to find information and answers. Thanks to you, and all the others, who have responded with helpful comments. TR Matt Bathje wrote: I think Ted Husted (one of the gurus who occasionally reads this list for those who don't know) has stated it best - it all depends on what itches need scratching. None of the "core" struts or validator developers have a need for multi-level indexed validation, so it isn't done. None of the "core" struts or validator developers have a need for javascript validation of indexed properties, so it isn't done. If a bugzilla enhancement request is put in, and enough people vote on it, and one of the core developers has the time to devote to the problem, one or both of these might get done. On the other hand, if somebody who DOES have the itch gets it done and gives it back to the community, then everybody wins. Unfortunatley in the real world this doesn't always happen. I know in my case it usually comes down to "well it will take less time to do this hacky workaround, but I'll go back and do the right thing later" Its just a matter of finding the time to do the right thing. I have a list of 4-5 things that I would like to do for struts that would make my applications much better and make things easier, it is just a matter of finding the time to do them. Indexed javascript validation happens to be one of them...but if somebody beats me to it I won't complain :) I think corporations aren't going to be able to benefit from open source, or even consider it "legitimate" until they understand that by USING open source, they BECOME "part of the open source community" and devote some time/money/energy to it. Matt Terry Roe wrote: Michael, I think we're all here trying to help each other. Comments of dissatisfaction or frustration should be used as an impetus to improve things. Waving the "open source" flag because something isn't done as well as it might be doesn't seem very constructive. There's a big push to legitimize open source in the business marketplace. Many people are trying to use open source projects to do real work and aren't able to dedicate their lives to becoming entrenched in the open source "culture." Many people have work to do and need to complete it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Feedback and input from this particular crowd should spur the open source community to continuously improve their wares and methods. TR Michael McGrady wrote: Terry Roe wrote: Geeta, I, too, am disappointed that none of the mailing list searches for The Apache Software Foundation appear to work. Given the fact that one "should not" post a question until one has attempted a thorough search for an answer, it seems utterly ridiculous that you can't do a search through the mailing list. I've seen many other people complain about this issue, but I have not been able to find a good explanation as to why it isn't enabled. You can try www.mail-arhcive.com to search first for Struts mailing lists and then search within the mailing list of your choice for messages. I have yet to find a really excellent way to search through Apache mailing lists, but I'd sure appreciate it if someone could make some good suggestions. TR No problems at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/ . I agree that somehow the address of this should be more readily available, but, Geesch, this is open source. Some of htis is getting to sound pretty whiny. Michael McGrady - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
I think Ted Husted (one of the gurus who occasionally reads this list for those who don't know) has stated it best - it all depends on what itches need scratching. None of the "core" struts or validator developers have a need for multi-level indexed validation, so it isn't done. None of the "core" struts or validator developers have a need for javascript validation of indexed properties, so it isn't done. If a bugzilla enhancement request is put in, and enough people vote on it, and one of the core developers has the time to devote to the problem, one or both of these might get done. On the other hand, if somebody who DOES have the itch gets it done and gives it back to the community, then everybody wins. Unfortunatley in the real world this doesn't always happen. I know in my case it usually comes down to "well it will take less time to do this hacky workaround, but I'll go back and do the right thing later" Its just a matter of finding the time to do the right thing. I have a list of 4-5 things that I would like to do for struts that would make my applications much better and make things easier, it is just a matter of finding the time to do them. Indexed javascript validation happens to be one of them...but if somebody beats me to it I won't complain :) I think corporations aren't going to be able to benefit from open source, or even consider it "legitimate" until they understand that by USING open source, they BECOME "part of the open source community" and devote some time/money/energy to it. Matt Terry Roe wrote: Michael, I think we're all here trying to help each other. Comments of dissatisfaction or frustration should be used as an impetus to improve things. Waving the "open source" flag because something isn't done as well as it might be doesn't seem very constructive. There's a big push to legitimize open source in the business marketplace. Many people are trying to use open source projects to do real work and aren't able to dedicate their lives to becoming entrenched in the open source "culture." Many people have work to do and need to complete it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Feedback and input from this particular crowd should spur the open source community to continuously improve their wares and methods. TR Michael McGrady wrote: Terry Roe wrote: Geeta, I, too, am disappointed that none of the mailing list searches for The Apache Software Foundation appear to work. Given the fact that one "should not" post a question until one has attempted a thorough search for an answer, it seems utterly ridiculous that you can't do a search through the mailing list. I've seen many other people complain about this issue, but I have not been able to find a good explanation as to why it isn't enabled. You can try www.mail-arhcive.com to search first for Struts mailing lists and then search within the mailing list of your choice for messages. I have yet to find a really excellent way to search through Apache mailing lists, but I'd sure appreciate it if someone could make some good suggestions. TR No problems at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/ . I agree that somehow the address of this should be more readily available, but, Geesch, this is open source. Some of htis is getting to sound pretty whiny. Michael McGrady - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
Terry Roe wrote: Michael, I think we're all here trying to help each other. Comments of dissatisfaction or frustration should be used as an impetus to improve things. Waving the "open source" flag because something isn't done as well as it might be doesn't seem very constructive. There's a big push to legitimize open source in the business marketplace. Many people are trying to use open source projects to do real work and aren't able to dedicate their lives to becoming entrenched in the open source "culture." Many people have work to do and need to complete it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Feedback and input from this particular crowd should spur the open source community to continuously improve their wares and methods. TR I think, TR, you missed my point. I said it was a good question and something might need to be changed. I was talking about the TONE. I have to say, however, that really don't care what the "big push" is. I guess for you "real work" is work in the "business marketplace". Housewives, monks, etc. be forewarned! LOL ;-) I am deadly serious, but I don't want to be "spurred". Michael McGrady - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
Michael, I think we're all here trying to help each other. Comments of dissatisfaction or frustration should be used as an impetus to improve things. Waving the "open source" flag because something isn't done as well as it might be doesn't seem very constructive. There's a big push to legitimize open source in the business marketplace. Many people are trying to use open source projects to do real work and aren't able to dedicate their lives to becoming entrenched in the open source "culture." Many people have work to do and need to complete it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Feedback and input from this particular crowd should spur the open source community to continuously improve their wares and methods. TR Michael McGrady wrote: Terry Roe wrote: Geeta, I, too, am disappointed that none of the mailing list searches for The Apache Software Foundation appear to work. Given the fact that one "should not" post a question until one has attempted a thorough search for an answer, it seems utterly ridiculous that you can't do a search through the mailing list. I've seen many other people complain about this issue, but I have not been able to find a good explanation as to why it isn't enabled. You can try www.mail-arhcive.com to search first for Struts mailing lists and then search within the mailing list of your choice for messages. I have yet to find a really excellent way to search through Apache mailing lists, but I'd sure appreciate it if someone could make some good suggestions. TR No problems at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/ . I agree that somehow the address of this should be more readily available, but, Geesch, this is open source. Some of htis is getting to sound pretty whiny. Michael McGrady - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
Terry Roe wrote: Geeta, I, too, am disappointed that none of the mailing list searches for The Apache Software Foundation appear to work. Given the fact that one "should not" post a question until one has attempted a thorough search for an answer, it seems utterly ridiculous that you can't do a search through the mailing list. I've seen many other people complain about this issue, but I have not been able to find a good explanation as to why it isn't enabled. You can try www.mail-arhcive.com to search first for Struts mailing lists and then search within the mailing list of your choice for messages. I have yet to find a really excellent way to search through Apache mailing lists, but I'd sure appreciate it if someone could make some good suggestions. TR No problems at http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/ . I agree that somehow the address of this should be more readily available, but, Geesch, this is open source. Some of htis is getting to sound pretty whiny. Michael McGrady - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
H (blush) - just realised that it's a little out of date. Still a
little useful though...?!
- Forwarded by David Hay/Lex/Lexmark on 09/14/2004 04:09 PM -
|-+>
| | David Hay|
| ||
| | 09/14/2004 04:09 |
| | PM |
| ||
|-+>
>|
|
|
| To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|
| cc:
|
| Subject: Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers(Document link: David
Hay)|
>|
Have you tried: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Works fine for me!
cheers,
David
|-+>
| | Terry Roe|
| | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]|
| | om> |
| ||
| | 09/14/2004 03:58 |
| | PM |
| | Please respond to|
| | "Struts Users|
| | Mailing List"|
| ||
|-+>
>|
|
|
| To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|
| cc:
|
| Subject: Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
|
>|
Geeta,
I, too, am disappointed that none of the mailing list searches for The
Apache Software Foundation appear to work. Given the fact that one
"should not" post a question until one has attempted a thorough search
for an answer, it seems utterly ridiculous that you can't do a search
through the mailing list. I've seen many other people complain about
this issue, but I have not been able to find a good explanation as to
why it isn't enabled. You can try www.mail-arhcive.com to search first
for Struts mailing lists and then search within the mailing list of your
choice for messages. I have yet to find a really excellent way to
search through Apache mailing lists, but I'd sure appreciate it if
someone could make some good suggestions.
TR
Geeta Ramani wrote:
> Hi Nick/all:
>
> This may be relevant to this topic, but the "Search" feature for the
> Struts archives seems to be broken..? I just get a "Text search not
> available for this list" regardless of what I do/how I search. I used
> this link:
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> s.apache.org
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Geeta
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Nick Heudecker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:04 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
>
> Terry:
>
> I agree with you that struts-user is mostly noise, although you
> phrased it much better than I did. I know it's frustrating to have
> your question go unanswered, but I really don't think it's
> intentional. There is so much cruft on this list, with the same
> questions asked repeatedly, that your question probably just fell
> through the cracks.
>
> The vast majority of the questions here should be posted on the JDC
> forums. If people would do that, and make even the most basic attempt
> to check the archives and/or Google, the number of off-topic posts
> would fall.
>
> I guess I'll wait to see how many angry responses I get. :)
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
Have you tried: http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Works fine for me!
cheers,
David
|-+>
| | Terry Roe|
| | <[EMAIL PROTECTED]|
| | om> |
| ||
| | 09/14/2004 03:58 |
| | PM |
| | Please respond to|
| | "Struts Users|
| | Mailing List"|
| ||
|-+>
>|
|
|
| To: Struts Users Mailing List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
|
| cc:
|
| Subject: Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
|
>|
Geeta,
I, too, am disappointed that none of the mailing list searches for The
Apache Software Foundation appear to work. Given the fact that one
"should not" post a question until one has attempted a thorough search
for an answer, it seems utterly ridiculous that you can't do a search
through the mailing list. I've seen many other people complain about
this issue, but I have not been able to find a good explanation as to
why it isn't enabled. You can try www.mail-arhcive.com to search first
for Struts mailing lists and then search within the mailing list of your
choice for messages. I have yet to find a really excellent way to
search through Apache mailing lists, but I'd sure appreciate it if
someone could make some good suggestions.
TR
Geeta Ramani wrote:
> Hi Nick/all:
>
> This may be relevant to this topic, but the "Search" feature for the
> Struts archives seems to be broken..? I just get a "Text search not
> available for this list" regardless of what I do/how I search. I used
> this link:
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> s.apache.org
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Geeta
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Nick Heudecker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:04 PM
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
>
> Terry:
>
> I agree with you that struts-user is mostly noise, although you
> phrased it much better than I did. I know it's frustrating to have
> your question go unanswered, but I really don't think it's
> intentional. There is so much cruft on this list, with the same
> questions asked repeatedly, that your question probably just fell
> through the cracks.
>
> The vast majority of the questions here should be posted on the JDC
> forums. If people would do that, and make even the most basic attempt
> to check the archives and/or Google, the number of off-topic posts
> would fall.
>
> I guess I'll wait to see how many angry responses I get. :)
>
>
>
>
> -
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
I usually use http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=struts-user as the main archive of struts-user that I search. It seems to work best out of the available options. Matt Terry Roe wrote: Geeta, I, too, am disappointed that none of the mailing list searches for The Apache Software Foundation appear to work. Given the fact that one "should not" post a question until one has attempted a thorough search for an answer, it seems utterly ridiculous that you can't do a search through the mailing list. I've seen many other people complain about this issue, but I have not been able to find a good explanation as to why it isn't enabled. You can try www.mail-arhcive.com to search first for Struts mailing lists and then search within the mailing list of your choice for messages. I have yet to find a really excellent way to search through Apache mailing lists, but I'd sure appreciate it if someone could make some good suggestions. TR Geeta Ramani wrote: Hi Nick/all: This may be relevant to this topic, but the "Search" feature for the Struts archives seems to be broken..? I just get a "Text search not available for this list" regardless of what I do/how I search. I used this link: http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.apache.org Thanks and regards, Geeta -Original Message- From: Nick Heudecker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:04 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers Terry: I agree with you that struts-user is mostly noise, although you phrased it much better than I did. I know it's frustrating to have your question go unanswered, but I really don't think it's intentional. There is so much cruft on this list, with the same questions asked repeatedly, that your question probably just fell through the cracks. The vast majority of the questions here should be posted on the JDC forums. If people would do that, and make even the most basic attempt to check the archives and/or Google, the number of off-topic posts would fall. I guess I'll wait to see how many angry responses I get. :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
Geeta, I, too, am disappointed that none of the mailing list searches for The Apache Software Foundation appear to work. Given the fact that one "should not" post a question until one has attempted a thorough search for an answer, it seems utterly ridiculous that you can't do a search through the mailing list. I've seen many other people complain about this issue, but I have not been able to find a good explanation as to why it isn't enabled. You can try www.mail-arhcive.com to search first for Struts mailing lists and then search within the mailing list of your choice for messages. I have yet to find a really excellent way to search through Apache mailing lists, but I'd sure appreciate it if someone could make some good suggestions. TR Geeta Ramani wrote: Hi Nick/all: This may be relevant to this topic, but the "Search" feature for the Struts archives seems to be broken..? I just get a "Text search not available for this list" regardless of what I do/how I search. I used this link: http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.apache.org Thanks and regards, Geeta -Original Message- From: Nick Heudecker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:04 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers Terry: I agree with you that struts-user is mostly noise, although you phrased it much better than I did. I know it's frustrating to have your question go unanswered, but I really don't think it's intentional. There is so much cruft on this list, with the same questions asked repeatedly, that your question probably just fell through the cracks. The vast majority of the questions here should be posted on the JDC forums. If people would do that, and make even the most basic attempt to check the archives and/or Google, the number of off-topic posts would fall. I guess I'll wait to see how many angry responses I get. :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
Hi Nick/all: This may be relevant to this topic, but the "Search" feature for the Struts archives seems to be broken..? I just get a "Text search not available for this list" regardless of what I do/how I search. I used this link: http://mail-archives.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.apache.org Thanks and regards, Geeta -Original Message- From: Nick Heudecker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 2:04 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers Terry: I agree with you that struts-user is mostly noise, although you phrased it much better than I did. I know it's frustrating to have your question go unanswered, but I really don't think it's intentional. There is so much cruft on this list, with the same questions asked repeatedly, that your question probably just fell through the cracks. The vast majority of the questions here should be posted on the JDC forums. If people would do that, and make even the most basic attempt to check the archives and/or Google, the number of off-topic posts would fall. I guess I'll wait to see how many angry responses I get. :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
Nick Heudecker wrote: Terry: I agree with you that struts-user is mostly noise, although you phrased it much better than I did. I know it's frustrating to have your question go unanswered, but I really don't think it's intentional. There is so much cruft on this list, with the same questions asked repeatedly, that your question probably just fell through the cracks. The vast majority of the questions here should be posted on the JDC forums. If people would do that, and make even the most basic attempt to check the archives and/or Google, the number of off-topic posts would fall. I guess I'll wait to see how many angry responses I get. :) I think that on the whole the list pretty much works well. There are the difficulties like that experienced here. The reason in this case, I suspect, is that the validator code is not well thought out and that has led to a lot of questions that are very uninteresting. Consquently, at least in my case, I rarely even look at a validator question. I guess I should be a bit more careful and at least peek. But, boy there are a lot of validator questions. This is useful, I think, because it says: FIX VALIDATOR. LOL. Don't tell me to do it. I am too crusty to have that bother me. Lovin' and Laughin' in the good State of Washington, Michael McGrady - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Off Topic Post Air Time vs. Struts Answers
Terry: I agree with you that struts-user is mostly noise, although you phrased it much better than I did. I know it's frustrating to have your question go unanswered, but I really don't think it's intentional. There is so much cruft on this list, with the same questions asked repeatedly, that your question probably just fell through the cracks. The vast majority of the questions here should be posted on the JDC forums. If people would do that, and make even the most basic attempt to check the archives and/or Google, the number of off-topic posts would fall. I guess I'll wait to see how many angry responses I get. :) On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:28:51 -0600, Terry Roe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Greetings, > > I find it interesting that most of the recent activity on this mailing > list has to do with items such as .NET, AOP, Flash, Crystal Reports, and > even Notepad! I don't mind the off topic posts, as they are usually at > least tangentially related to the topic of this list and are interesting > in themselves. However, I have posted a couple of Struts questions > dealing with production code I am trying to develop and are directly > related to Struts usage. I received a confirmation that one item wasn't > currently supported in Struts (indexed property validation with > JavaScript), but no suggestions on how I might work around it, and > another on which I received no help, described below. > > I'd think there'd be at least one or two gurus watching this list that > could at least say "you can't do that" or" here's what you might try." > I've seen the big guns respond to "easier" issues, but no one addresses > "tough" ones like the one below. Maybe it's too much effort, or maybe > I've breached protocol somehow in the way I've asked for help. It would > be nice to at least get a response to an issue that is directly related > to the topic of this mailing list. > > I don't mean to be rude, and I hope I'm not coming across that way. But > I've searched and searched for information on the issue below and have > come up empty. I came to the one place that I thought would be of some > help and have received no response. Could someone please tell me where > to go (and, yes, you may say GTH if that is the correct answer) to find > answers to questions on Struts functionality and usage? > > Thanks, > > TR > > Terry Roe wrote: > Re: Validation for Two Levels of Indexed Properties > > > Can Struts validate more than one level of indexed properties? First > > level works great. Love it. I've tried the following (phaseList and > > procedureList are two indexed properties) to get more than one level to > > work without success: > > > > > indexedListProperty="plan.phaseList.procedureList" > > depends="required,intRange"> > > > > > indexedListProperty="plan.phaseList[].procedureList" > > depends="required,intRange"> > > > > > indexedListProperty="plan.phaseList" depends="required,intRange"> > > > > > indexedListProperty="plan.phaseList" depends="required,intRange"> > > > > Is multi-level, indexed property validation supported? If so, can > > someone relate the syntax to use? If not, can someone confirm than only > > one level of indexed property validation is supported? > > > > TR > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
