Re: GUI IDE need.

[QA]

There is also this MXML editor project using the same library that runs 
in the browser, https://github.com/velara3/MXML-Azzurro.


And https://www.radii8.com/mxml/

On 4/5/20 5:49 PM, QA wrote:

Hi Ram,

You can find the project here, https://github.com/velara3/Radii8. I 
haven't worked on it in a while. It should run as is but you might 
need the modified resize handle swc. I don't know if I included that 
in repo bc it was not originally my code (however all the code is 
cleared). If not there let me know.


Once you get that running you can look at the exporter classes such as 
the MXML exporter, HTML exporter, etc. You can then work on a Royale 
Exporter. There is also internal browser if you wanted to do what Alex 
suggested with live editing.


Note: The internal browser is very old and doesn't render SVG or 
support some HTML features. There are companies who have updated the 
browser with a new WebView or may update the internal browser (Harman).


The entire project was built from scratch. So you'll see after a while 
that some sections of the project need refactoring or rewritten. Then, 
once you get familiar with it you can see if it can be plugged into 
moonshine or moonshine can be plugged into to it.


FWIW I researched the moonshine project when I started but it had been 
abandoned already for a few years and I wanted to have a design view 
on the web as well as desktop and moonshine at the time relied 
entirely on desktop APIs.


There is some documentation in the repo on how to get it setup, how to 
create new tools and so on. I have limited availability to work on 
anything new but I can answer any questions and you can contact me 
directly if you like.


BTW I'm currently working on a plugin for Adobe XD that exports to 
HTML. I've been looking into exporting to MXML and other languages but 
haven't started yet and would welcome help on that but based on your 
discussion I don't know if that will fit your needs.


The original goal of the project was to create a design view for Flex 
projects after Adobe removed the design view from Flash Builder.


Jude

PS Apache Flex has an official license and source donation for it's 
use (see discussion list from years ago)


On 3/14/20 3:54 PM, Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek wrote:
I would disagree with that because a while ago I went deep into the 
source code for the TLF framework in Flash and there was 
implementation of various HTML element which could be displayed 
directly in the Flash DisplayList.


There is also another project I saw which has a designer view written 
all in Flex... this could be taken and then injected inside Moonshine 
in a Loader with whom we could communicate back and forth if we want 
to export the structure to HTML or other framework.


We could ask the author of it to check how could we implement it.

https://pasteboard.co/IZ6B7EL.png

Best regards

P.S. If you would like to have a reverse engineered images of all the 
diagrams I did in the past for the TLF please le me know I draw so 
many pages just for the sake of understanding.





14.03.2020, 19:48, "Alex Harui" :
I never looked too closely at the SWF portion of FB DV. It was a SWF 
app. But IIRC, the main work in DV was in the communications between 
the SWF and the FB Java code in Eclipse that displayed properties 
and managed alignment and alignment-guides and whatever else DV 
offered. IOW, it isn't that much SWF code to handle a request to set 
or return properties on an object with a particular ID in the DOM.


What I do remember is that the SWF portion was an exception to the 
rule that the DOM would not have an Application as a child of an 
Application without a SWFLoader between them. I would strongly 
prefer we not tackle those exceptions in Royale.


One thing about Royale that is a bit different from Flex and SWFs is 
that (hopefully) the Royale Applications do not presume they are 
essentially the top level node in the DOM. Maybe Basic Application 
could assume that it is top-level for simplicity, but other 
Application tag do not need to presume that and shouldn't. That's 
because you don't really know where in the DOM the Royale 
Application will end up. In Flex, you could wrap the SWF Object 
inside any amount of HTML and the SWF Object was a black box and the 
Flex app ran at the root of the SWF Object. In Royale, we probably 
can't and don't want to do that.


What that means is that it should be easier to wrap a Royale 
Application in other DOM widgets and thus it should be far easier to 
create property display boxes, alignment guides, selection, and 
other UI a DV needs in the browser instead of in the IDE. And the 
advantage of that is that the browser is doing the rendering so it 
is truly WYSIWYG. Any attempt to emulate an HTML renderer in AIR or 
Java/Eclipse or other IDE platforms would be concerning to me. I 
think you would get better fidelity if the IDE would run a browser 
in a window of the IDE and talk to it, and potentially do most 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[QA]

Hi Ram,

You can find the project here, https://github.com/velara3/Radii8. I 
haven't worked on it in a while. It should run as is but you might need 
the modified resize handle swc. I don't know if I included that in repo 
bc it was not originally my code (however all the code is cleared). If 
not there let me know.


Once you get that running you can look at the exporter classes such as 
the MXML exporter, HTML exporter, etc. You can then work on a Royale 
Exporter. There is also internal browser if you wanted to do what Alex 
suggested with live editing.


Note: The internal browser is very old and doesn't render SVG or support 
some HTML features. There are companies who have updated the browser 
with a new WebView or may update the internal browser (Harman).


The entire project was built from scratch. So you'll see after a while 
that some sections of the project need refactoring or rewritten. Then, 
once you get familiar with it you can see if it can be plugged into 
moonshine or moonshine can be plugged into to it.


FWIW I researched the moonshine project when I started but it had been 
abandoned already for a few years and I wanted to have a design view on 
the web as well as desktop and moonshine at the time relied entirely on 
desktop APIs.


There is some documentation in the repo on how to get it setup, how to 
create new tools and so on. I have limited availability to work on 
anything new but I can answer any questions and you can contact me 
directly if you like.


BTW I'm currently working on a plugin for Adobe XD that exports to HTML. 
I've been looking into exporting to MXML and other languages but haven't 
started yet and would welcome help on that but based on your discussion 
I don't know if that will fit your needs.


The original goal of the project was to create a design view for Flex 
projects after Adobe removed the design view from Flash Builder.


Jude

PS Apache Flex has an official license and source donation for it's use 
(see discussion list from years ago)


On 3/14/20 3:54 PM, Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek wrote:

I would disagree with that because a while ago I went deep into the source code 
for the TLF framework in Flash and there was implementation of various HTML 
element which could be displayed directly in the Flash DisplayList.

There is also another project I saw which has a designer view written all in 
Flex... this could be taken and then injected inside Moonshine in a Loader with 
whom we could communicate back and forth if we want to export the structure to 
HTML or other framework.

We could ask the author of it to check how could we implement it.

https://pasteboard.co/IZ6B7EL.png

Best regards

P.S. If you would like to have a reverse engineered images of all the diagrams 
I did in the past for the TLF please le me know I draw so many pages just for 
the sake of understanding.




14.03.2020, 19:48, "Alex Harui" :

I never looked too closely at the SWF portion of FB DV. It was a SWF app. But 
IIRC, the main work in DV was in the communications between the SWF and the FB 
Java code in Eclipse that displayed properties and managed alignment and 
alignment-guides and whatever else DV offered. IOW, it isn't that much SWF code 
to handle a request to set or return properties on an object with a particular 
ID in the DOM.

What I do remember is that the SWF portion was an exception to the rule that 
the DOM would not have an Application as a child of an Application without a 
SWFLoader between them. I would strongly prefer we not tackle those exceptions 
in Royale.

One thing about Royale that is a bit different from Flex and SWFs is that 
(hopefully) the Royale Applications do not presume they are essentially the top 
level node in the DOM. Maybe Basic Application could assume that it is 
top-level for simplicity, but other Application tag do not need to presume that 
and shouldn't. That's because you don't really know where in the DOM the Royale 
Application will end up. In Flex, you could wrap the SWF Object inside any 
amount of HTML and the SWF Object was a black box and the Flex app ran at the 
root of the SWF Object. In Royale, we probably can't and don't want to do that.

What that means is that it should be easier to wrap a Royale Application in 
other DOM widgets and thus it should be far easier to create property display 
boxes, alignment guides, selection, and other UI a DV needs in the browser 
instead of in the IDE. And the advantage of that is that the browser is doing 
the rendering so it is truly WYSIWYG. Any attempt to emulate an HTML renderer 
in AIR or Java/Eclipse or other IDE platforms would be concerning to me. I 
think you would get better fidelity if the IDE would run a browser in a window 
of the IDE and talk to it, and potentially do most of the UI in that browser 
window.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

On 3/14/20, 11:26 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  wrote:

 This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Carlos Rovira]

Yes, as Alex said Flex was before, and was really the opposite. JavaFX was
inspired in the success of Flex

thanks

El mar., 31 mar. 2020 a las 9:19, Alex Harui ()
escribió:

> I don't know anything about SceneBuilder.  You are welcome to try it
> yourself or recruit others to do it.  I'm still a fan of live-editing.
>
> FWIW, I didn't think Flex was inspired from JavaFX.  Flex shipped before
> JavaFX, IIRC.
>
> -Alex
>
> On 3/30/20, 11:36 PM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" 
> wrote:
>
> I found this project which is for JavaFX and FXML. Since Flex was
> inspired from JavaFx and that
> almost all the components in JavaFx are also available in Flex how
> about we use the SceneBuilder
> for UI Design and then make a transpilation to MXML source code. Does
> this sound viable or not?
>
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgluonhq.com%2Fproducts%2Fscene-builder%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898302214sdata=y1DbmF0eaE3wQgQIZ%2BIAiYjy8ADTYGG%2BZa8D4Fy3pXM%3Dreserved=0
>
>
> 16.03.2020, 18:16, "Alex Harui" :
> > Hi Ramazan,
> >
> > It would be awesome if you actually tested these technologies you
> linked to in order to verify their compliance and separate fact from
> fiction. In a quick look, some of these projects seem to not be current.
> IMO, it would be a better use of time to integrate an existing browser into
> an IDE than to try to integrate, update and maintain these other libraries.
> But I'm probably not going to be doing the work. So thanks for pointing out
> these other libraries and maybe someone or you will validate them.
> >
> > Thanks
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 3/16/20, 6:10 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" 
> wrote:
> >
> > I also found out that there is a possibility to "It should be
> possible to manually parse HTML and convert it into valid FTE content, or
> perhaps an alternative choice would be to build the FTE content directly."
> >
> > based on what Josh Tynjala shared on
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starling-framework.org%2Fd%2F10408-textblockrenderer-html-support%2F4data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=YWPTZXuCVMAP5SCFpyLRE2clFxeyLHGzl7b19gvxV2Y%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > 16.03.2020, 13:54, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  >:
> > > Thank you Alex for your feedback.
> > >
> > > Concerning HTML/CSS implementation in Actionscript I found out
> that it is not totally true.
> > > Searching led me to this discoveries:
> > >
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.as3gamegears.com%2Fmisc%2Fhtmlwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=YoR%2BhFsjh92wz2e%2BiY3kPECvYO%2FPND4UPPstdYPAYsk%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110308200521%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojectsdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=MsD0NHLOycgZ1bDDhGLTTYJ6zzt6CL8zywsm%2FTpW1CQ%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110201053313%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojects%2Fminihtml%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=MQMtXJJIzRHBzk5Sb89blX4TmWNMI4pGUi1Dci%2BZXLE%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Ftalltyler%2FHTMLWrapperdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=oAml2Ifg%2BuyoZYlBtDf6q%2FMvCC1kt3mulIaZuAF9jao%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20100203073533%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=mjrVXEJsHqOOYufCskdUwuBvqxubKoGxdnachpmMIoQ%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrawk.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F01%2F11%2Fas3-flash-to-html-conversion-library-htmlwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=4EJHkxiw11yNmgx0kLdyS26NjlDAwl0jZco1kxh19Sc%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Alex Harui]

I don't know anything about SceneBuilder.  You are welcome to try it yourself 
or recruit others to do it.  I'm still a fan of live-editing.

FWIW, I didn't think Flex was inspired from JavaFX.  Flex shipped before 
JavaFX, IIRC.

-Alex

On 3/30/20, 11:36 PM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  wrote:

I found this project which is for JavaFX and FXML. Since Flex was inspired 
from JavaFx and that
almost all the components in JavaFx are also available in Flex how about we 
use the SceneBuilder
for UI Design and then make a transpilation to MXML source code. Does this 
sound viable or not?


https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgluonhq.com%2Fproducts%2Fscene-builder%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898302214sdata=y1DbmF0eaE3wQgQIZ%2BIAiYjy8ADTYGG%2BZa8D4Fy3pXM%3Dreserved=0


16.03.2020, 18:16, "Alex Harui" :
> Hi Ramazan,
>
> It would be awesome if you actually tested these technologies you linked 
to in order to verify their compliance and separate fact from fiction. In a 
quick look, some of these projects seem to not be current. IMO, it would be a 
better use of time to integrate an existing browser into an IDE than to try to 
integrate, update and maintain these other libraries. But I'm probably not 
going to be doing the work. So thanks for pointing out these other libraries 
and maybe someone or you will validate them.
>
> Thanks
> -Alex
>
> On 3/16/20, 6:10 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  wrote:
>
> I also found out that there is a possibility to "It should be 
possible to manually parse HTML and convert it into valid FTE content, or 
perhaps an alternative choice would be to build the FTE content directly."
>
> based on what Josh Tynjala shared on 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starling-framework.org%2Fd%2F10408-textblockrenderer-html-support%2F4data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=YWPTZXuCVMAP5SCFpyLRE2clFxeyLHGzl7b19gvxV2Y%3Dreserved=0
>
> 16.03.2020, 13:54, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" :
> > Thank you Alex for your feedback.
> >
> > Concerning HTML/CSS implementation in Actionscript I found out that 
it is not totally true.
> > Searching led me to this discoveries:
> >
> > 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.as3gamegears.com%2Fmisc%2Fhtmlwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=YoR%2BhFsjh92wz2e%2BiY3kPECvYO%2FPND4UPPstdYPAYsk%3Dreserved=0
> > 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110308200521%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojectsdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=MsD0NHLOycgZ1bDDhGLTTYJ6zzt6CL8zywsm%2FTpW1CQ%3Dreserved=0
> > 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110201053313%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojects%2Fminihtml%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=MQMtXJJIzRHBzk5Sb89blX4TmWNMI4pGUi1Dci%2BZXLE%3Dreserved=0
> > 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Ftalltyler%2FHTMLWrapperdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=oAml2Ifg%2BuyoZYlBtDf6q%2FMvCC1kt3mulIaZuAF9jao%3Dreserved=0
> > 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20100203073533%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=mjrVXEJsHqOOYufCskdUwuBvqxubKoGxdnachpmMIoQ%3Dreserved=0
> > 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrawk.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F01%2F11%2Fas3-flash-to-html-conversion-library-htmlwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=4EJHkxiw11yNmgx0kLdyS26NjlDAwl0jZco1kxh19Sc%3Dreserved=0
> > 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110310120049%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojects%2Fhtmlwrapperdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3476b592ba6641be8afe08d7d53dd7bb%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637212333898312209sdata=GCnzDtAoN3TiMPQbhktdTCimZuWki8lPQfr2z9N9FXY%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > I 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek]

I found this project which is for JavaFX and FXML. Since Flex was inspired from 
JavaFx and that
almost all the components in JavaFx are also available in Flex how about we use 
the SceneBuilder
for UI Design and then make a transpilation to MXML source code. Does this 
sound viable or not?

https://gluonhq.com/products/scene-builder/


16.03.2020, 18:16, "Alex Harui" :
> Hi Ramazan,
>
> It would be awesome if you actually tested these technologies you linked to 
> in order to verify their compliance and separate fact from fiction. In a 
> quick look, some of these projects seem to not be current. IMO, it would be a 
> better use of time to integrate an existing browser into an IDE than to try 
> to integrate, update and maintain these other libraries. But I'm probably not 
> going to be doing the work. So thanks for pointing out these other libraries 
> and maybe someone or you will validate them.
>
> Thanks
> -Alex
>
> On 3/16/20, 6:10 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  wrote:
>
> I also found out that there is a possibility to "It should be possible to 
> manually parse HTML and convert it into valid FTE content, or perhaps an 
> alternative choice would be to build the FTE content directly."
>
> based on what Josh Tynjala shared on 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starling-framework.org%2Fd%2F10408-textblockrenderer-html-support%2F4data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420131693sdata=92APRTysURIcIQyUbVee4UgzGQxqAdAmUwTpaUyNzbI%3Dreserved=0
>
> 16.03.2020, 13:54, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" :
> > Thank you Alex for your feedback.
> >
> > Concerning HTML/CSS implementation in Actionscript I found out that it 
> is not totally true.
> > Searching led me to this discoveries:
> >
> > 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.as3gamegears.com%2Fmisc%2Fhtmlwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=f7KpzYFT49TPK6OI31L98vScvcu56QXCaW1LRu7tFF4%3Dreserved=0
> > 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110308200521%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojectsdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=BlBgFuaJ67YsOtpnPNAMdBUkCp3%2BmeGcHpUaMpiSyS8%3Dreserved=0
> > 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110201053313%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojects%2Fminihtml%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=hPdMDBBWkl8YalWCl19pQ0Whl8hA9xcOaXeWFWU%2BjVY%3Dreserved=0
> > 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Ftalltyler%2FHTMLWrapperdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=ZFcAq%2FGOjv8oeOQdDE8yzabT6qEhpqNqUr%2BwSrlyz30%3Dreserved=0
> > 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20100203073533%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=6KSbSHN3jyGbTWLSOPLF%2BWBPp8tpCiGLLlOiolBF7rg%3Dreserved=0
> > 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrawk.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F01%2F11%2Fas3-flash-to-html-conversion-library-htmlwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=eNklfMZG%2FCWhn21Cg4A5664UecK4bgzUUUEWraOJz1I%3Dreserved=0
> > 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110310120049%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojects%2Fhtmlwrapperdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=7WC1%2FPlQ73g3mZPnhEncJRFdLR4wYZaH5SnlwvYMyzE%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > I hope that this can help to clear out and help us to make the 
> difference what is fact from what is fiction.
> >
> > Best Regards

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Alex Harui]

Hi Ramazan,

It would be awesome if you actually tested these technologies you linked to in 
order to verify their compliance and separate fact from fiction.  In a quick 
look, some of these projects seem to not be current.  IMO, it would be a better 
use of time to integrate an existing browser into an IDE than to try to 
integrate, update and maintain these other libraries.  But I'm probably not 
going to be doing the work.  So thanks for pointing out these other libraries 
and maybe someone or you will validate them.

Thanks
-Alex

On 3/16/20, 6:10 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  wrote:

I also found out that there is a possibility to "It should be possible to 
manually parse HTML and convert it into valid FTE content, or perhaps an 
alternative choice would be to build the FTE content directly."

based on what Josh Tynjala shared on 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fforum.starling-framework.org%2Fd%2F10408-textblockrenderer-html-support%2F4data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420131693sdata=92APRTysURIcIQyUbVee4UgzGQxqAdAmUwTpaUyNzbI%3Dreserved=0

16.03.2020, 13:54, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" :
> Thank you Alex for your feedback.
>
> Concerning HTML/CSS implementation in Actionscript I found out that it is 
not totally true.
> Searching led me to this discoveries:
>
> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.as3gamegears.com%2Fmisc%2Fhtmlwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=f7KpzYFT49TPK6OI31L98vScvcu56QXCaW1LRu7tFF4%3Dreserved=0
> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110308200521%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojectsdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=BlBgFuaJ67YsOtpnPNAMdBUkCp3%2BmeGcHpUaMpiSyS8%3Dreserved=0
> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110201053313%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojects%2Fminihtml%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=hPdMDBBWkl8YalWCl19pQ0Whl8hA9xcOaXeWFWU%2BjVY%3Dreserved=0
> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Ftalltyler%2FHTMLWrapperdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=ZFcAq%2FGOjv8oeOQdDE8yzabT6qEhpqNqUr%2BwSrlyz30%3Dreserved=0
> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20100203073533%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=6KSbSHN3jyGbTWLSOPLF%2BWBPp8tpCiGLLlOiolBF7rg%3Dreserved=0
> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdrawk.wordpress.com%2F2008%2F01%2F11%2Fas3-flash-to-html-conversion-library-htmlwrapper%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=eNklfMZG%2FCWhn21Cg4A5664UecK4bgzUUUEWraOJz1I%3Dreserved=0
> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20110310120049%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fmotionandcolor.com%2Fprojects%2Fhtmlwrapperdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C6af59ebca87b462808ee08d7c9ab6d48%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637199610420141688sdata=7WC1%2FPlQ73g3mZPnhEncJRFdLR4wYZaH5SnlwvYMyzE%3Dreserved=0
>
> I hope that this can help to clear out and help us to make the difference 
what is fact from what is fiction.
>
> Best Regards

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek]

I also found out that there is a possibility to "It should be possible to 
manually parse HTML and convert it into valid FTE content, or perhaps an 
alternative choice would be to build the FTE content directly."

based on what Josh Tynjala shared on 
https://forum.starling-framework.org/d/10408-textblockrenderer-html-support/4

16.03.2020, 13:54, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" :
> Thank you Alex for your feedback.
>
> Concerning HTML/CSS implementation in Actionscript I found out that it is not 
> totally true.
> Searching led me to this discoveries:
>
> https://www.as3gamegears.com/misc/htmlwrapper/
> https://web.archive.org/web/20110308200521/http://motionandcolor.com/projects
> https://web.archive.org/web/20110201053313/http://motionandcolor.com/projects/minihtml/
> https://github.com/talltyler/HTMLWrapper
> https://web.archive.org/web/20100203073533/http://motionandcolor.com/wrapper/
> https://drawk.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/as3-flash-to-html-conversion-library-htmlwrapper/
> https://web.archive.org/web/20110310120049/http://motionandcolor.com/projects/htmlwrapper
>
> I hope that this can help to clear out and help us to make the difference 
> what is fact from what is fiction.
>
> Best Regards

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek]

Thank you Alex for your feedback.

Concerning HTML/CSS implementation in Actionscript I found out that it is not 
totally true.
Searching led me to this discoveries:

https://www.as3gamegears.com/misc/htmlwrapper/
https://web.archive.org/web/20110308200521/http://motionandcolor.com/projects
https://web.archive.org/web/20110201053313/http://motionandcolor.com/projects/minihtml/
https://github.com/talltyler/HTMLWrapper
https://web.archive.org/web/20100203073533/http://motionandcolor.com/wrapper/
https://drawk.wordpress.com/2008/01/11/as3-flash-to-html-conversion-library-htmlwrapper/
https://web.archive.org/web/20110310120049/http://motionandcolor.com/projects/htmlwrapper

I hope that this can help to clear out and help us to make the difference what 
is fact from what is fiction.

Best Regards

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Alex Harui]

On 3/14/20, 1:54 PM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  wrote:

I would disagree with that because a while ago I went deep into the source 
code for the TLF framework in Flash and there was implementation of various 
HTML element which could be displayed directly in the Flash DisplayList.

IIRC, there is no guarantee that TLF would display anything similar to how a 
browser would do it, but it would render the same across Flash in all browsers. 
  There was no compliant CSS implementation, for example, and no support for 
HTML5.   That's why I'm saying it is easier/safer to just let the browser 
render.

There is also another project I saw which has a designer view written all 
in Flex... this could be taken and then injected inside Moonshine in a Loader 
with whom we could communicate back and forth if we want to export the 
structure to HTML or other framework.

We could ask the author of it to check how could we implement it.

The link below is for Radia8.  Judah, the author has already chimed in one of 
these recent GUI threads.


https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpasteboard.co%2FIZ6B7EL.pngdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cfebd2b0afef14db516f408d7c859dc55%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198160621955893sdata=kzI5wLZ9Pd2C1F3al0psZDbMjs%2FXNET1R9rvrQ3akZU%3Dreserved=0

Best regards

P.S. If you would like to have a reverse engineered images of all the 
diagrams I did in the past for the TLF please le me know I draw so many pages 
just for the sake of understanding.




14.03.2020, 19:48, "Alex Harui" :
> I never looked too closely at the SWF portion of FB DV. It was a SWF app. 
But IIRC, the main work in DV was in the communications between the SWF and the 
FB Java code in Eclipse that displayed properties and managed alignment and 
alignment-guides and whatever else DV offered. IOW, it isn't that much SWF code 
to handle a request to set or return properties on an object with a particular 
ID in the DOM.
>
> What I do remember is that the SWF portion was an exception to the rule 
that the DOM would not have an Application as a child of an Application without 
a SWFLoader between them. I would strongly prefer we not tackle those 
exceptions in Royale.
>
> One thing about Royale that is a bit different from Flex and SWFs is that 
(hopefully) the Royale Applications do not presume they are essentially the top 
level node in the DOM. Maybe Basic Application could assume that it is 
top-level for simplicity, but other Application tag do not need to presume that 
and shouldn't. That's because you don't really know where in the DOM the Royale 
Application will end up. In Flex, you could wrap the SWF Object inside any 
amount of HTML and the SWF Object was a black box and the Flex app ran at the 
root of the SWF Object. In Royale, we probably can't and don't want to do that.
>
> What that means is that it should be easier to wrap a Royale Application 
in other DOM widgets and thus it should be far easier to create property 
display boxes, alignment guides, selection, and other UI a DV needs in the 
browser instead of in the IDE. And the advantage of that is that the browser is 
doing the rendering so it is truly WYSIWYG. Any attempt to emulate an HTML 
renderer in AIR or Java/Eclipse or other IDE platforms would be concerning to 
me. I think you would get better fidelity if the IDE would run a browser in a 
window of the IDE and talk to it, and potentially do most of the UI in that 
browser window.
>
> Of course, I could be wrong...
> -Alex
>
> On 3/14/20, 11:26 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  
wrote:
>
> This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was 
built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what 
if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?
>
> Does this make any sense?
>
> 11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" :
> > This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was 
built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what 
if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?
> >
> > 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" :
> >> Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've
> >> planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on 
the
> >> backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a 
plugin
> >> for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it 
supports
> >> exporting markup to HTML and CSS.
> >>
> >> XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used 
for
> >> prototyping.
> >>
> >> To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would 
be
> >> much less work to add in support than write your 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek]

I would disagree with that because a while ago I went deep into the source code 
for the TLF framework in Flash and there was implementation of various HTML 
element which could be displayed directly in the Flash DisplayList.

There is also another project I saw which has a designer view written all in 
Flex... this could be taken and then injected inside Moonshine in a Loader with 
whom we could communicate back and forth if we want to export the structure to 
HTML or other framework.

We could ask the author of it to check how could we implement it.

https://pasteboard.co/IZ6B7EL.png

Best regards

P.S. If you would like to have a reverse engineered images of all the diagrams 
I did in the past for the TLF please le me know I draw so many pages just for 
the sake of understanding.




14.03.2020, 19:48, "Alex Harui" :
> I never looked too closely at the SWF portion of FB DV. It was a SWF app. But 
> IIRC, the main work in DV was in the communications between the SWF and the 
> FB Java code in Eclipse that displayed properties and managed alignment and 
> alignment-guides and whatever else DV offered. IOW, it isn't that much SWF 
> code to handle a request to set or return properties on an object with a 
> particular ID in the DOM.
>
> What I do remember is that the SWF portion was an exception to the rule that 
> the DOM would not have an Application as a child of an Application without a 
> SWFLoader between them. I would strongly prefer we not tackle those 
> exceptions in Royale.
>
> One thing about Royale that is a bit different from Flex and SWFs is that 
> (hopefully) the Royale Applications do not presume they are essentially the 
> top level node in the DOM. Maybe Basic Application could assume that it is 
> top-level for simplicity, but other Application tag do not need to presume 
> that and shouldn't. That's because you don't really know where in the DOM the 
> Royale Application will end up. In Flex, you could wrap the SWF Object inside 
> any amount of HTML and the SWF Object was a black box and the Flex app ran at 
> the root of the SWF Object. In Royale, we probably can't and don't want to do 
> that.
>
> What that means is that it should be easier to wrap a Royale Application in 
> other DOM widgets and thus it should be far easier to create property display 
> boxes, alignment guides, selection, and other UI a DV needs in the browser 
> instead of in the IDE. And the advantage of that is that the browser is doing 
> the rendering so it is truly WYSIWYG. Any attempt to emulate an HTML renderer 
> in AIR or Java/Eclipse or other IDE platforms would be concerning to me. I 
> think you would get better fidelity if the IDE would run a browser in a 
> window of the IDE and talk to it, and potentially do most of the UI in that 
> browser window.
>
> Of course, I could be wrong...
> -Alex
>
> On 3/14/20, 11:26 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  wrote:
>
> This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built 
> as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if 
> we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?
>
> Does this make any sense?
>
> 11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" :
> > This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built 
> as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if 
> we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?
> >
> > 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" :
> >> Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've
> >> planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the
> >> backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin
> >> for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports
> >> exporting markup to HTML and CSS.
> >>
> >> XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for
> >> prototyping.
> >>
> >> To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be
> >> much less work to add in support than write your own design view.
> >>
> >> YouTube playlist
> >> 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fplaylist%3Flist%3DPLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pXdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259sdata=oth%2FP5pVUEGwBJ9yKUy8HWBgbVjXeYBQzlnrtyo1700%3Dreserved=0
> >>
> >> Documentation
> >> 
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvelara-3.gitbook.io%2Fweb-export%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259sdata=BWPsL5I5cdOapzep8mu%2FwdNvatQaEvjA4gVV8WeTkIw%3Dreserved=0
> >>
> >> More comments inline...
> >>
> >> On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
> >>> While it may be that someone offers 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Alex Harui]

I never looked too closely at the SWF portion of FB DV.  It was a SWF app.  But 
IIRC, the main work in DV was in the communications between the SWF and the FB 
Java code in Eclipse that displayed properties and managed alignment and 
alignment-guides and whatever else DV offered.  IOW, it isn't that much SWF 
code to handle a request to set or return properties on an object with a 
particular ID in the DOM.

What I do remember is that the SWF portion was an exception to the rule that 
the DOM would not have an Application as a child of an Application without a 
SWFLoader between them.  I would strongly prefer we not tackle those exceptions 
in Royale.

One thing about Royale that is a bit different from Flex and SWFs is that 
(hopefully) the Royale Applications do not presume they are essentially the top 
level node in the DOM.  Maybe Basic Application could assume that it is 
top-level for simplicity, but other Application tag do not need to presume that 
and shouldn't.  That's because you don't really know where in the DOM the 
Royale Application will end up.  In Flex, you could wrap the SWF Object inside 
any amount of HTML and the SWF Object was a black box and the Flex app ran at 
the root of the SWF Object.  In Royale, we probably can't and don't want to do 
that.

What that means is that it should be easier to wrap a Royale Application in 
other DOM widgets and thus it should be far easier to create property display 
boxes, alignment guides, selection, and other UI a DV needs in the browser 
instead of in the IDE.  And the advantage of that is that the browser is doing 
the rendering so it is truly WYSIWYG.  Any attempt to emulate an HTML renderer 
in AIR or Java/Eclipse or other IDE platforms would be concerning to me.  I 
think you would get better fidelity if the IDE would run a browser in a window 
of the IDE and talk to it, and potentially do most of the UI in that browser 
window.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex


On 3/14/20, 11:26 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek"  wrote:

This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as 
an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we 
decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? 

Does this make any sense? 

11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" :
> This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built 
as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we 
decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?
>
> 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" :
>>  Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've
>>  planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the
>>  backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin
>>  for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports
>>  exporting markup to HTML and CSS.
>>
>>  XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for
>>  prototyping.
>>
>>  To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be
>>  much less work to add in support than write your own design view.
>>
>>  YouTube playlist
>>  
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fplaylist%3Flist%3DPLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pXdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259sdata=oth%2FP5pVUEGwBJ9yKUy8HWBgbVjXeYBQzlnrtyo1700%3Dreserved=0
>>
>>  Documentation
>>  
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvelara-3.gitbook.io%2Fweb-export%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259sdata=BWPsL5I5cdOapzep8mu%2FwdNvatQaEvjA4gVV8WeTkIw%3Dreserved=0
>>
>>  More comments inline...
>>
>>  On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>>>   While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, 
there is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that 
wasn't possible with Flash Player.
>>>
>>>   IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to 
edit the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the 
browser.
>>
>>  Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it
>>  updates live in the browser (for HTML).
>>
>>  
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DkfQQkxi8eG4%26list%3DPLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX%26index%3D10%26t%3D0sdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757789220sdata=w1NpFDdP7OuzvfwDdpFpMfeIGNP%2BfikpoJulUM%2Fh1J0%3Dreserved=0
>>
>>  You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek]

This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an 
SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we 
decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? 

Does this make any sense? 

11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" :
> This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an 
> SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we 
> decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor?
>
> 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" :
>>  Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've
>>  planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the
>>  backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin
>>  for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports
>>  exporting markup to HTML and CSS.
>>
>>  XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for
>>  prototyping.
>>
>>  To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be
>>  much less work to add in support than write your own design view.
>>
>>  YouTube playlist
>>  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX
>>
>>  Documentation
>>  https://velara-3.gitbook.io/web-export/
>>
>>  More comments inline...
>>
>>  On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>>>   While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there 
>>> is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that 
>>> wasn't possible with Flash Player.
>>>
>>>   IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit 
>>> the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the 
>>> browser.
>>
>>  Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it
>>  updates live in the browser (for HTML).
>>
>>  
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfQQkxi8eG4=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX=10=0s
>>
>>  You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the
>>  MXML document each time it changes.
>>
>>>   The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the 
>>> browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some 
>>> button that will then update the MXML.
>>>
>>>   There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are 
>>> available at this time. The main one is that use of view states greatly 
>>> complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well). So one 
>>> question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
>>
>>  XD supports states in a way. What I've seen from users is they have
>>  different pages and manually switch between them. I think the way XD
>>  creates it's live prototypes is listing all property changes. That
>>  information can be stored in State markup.
>>
>>  If you (or other Flex devs) want to join me on adding Royale support to
>>  Web Export I can add you to the github project and you'll be about one
>>  year further along towards a GUI.
>>
>>  Jude

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek]

This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an 
SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we 
decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? 


11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" :
> Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've
> planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the
> backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin
> for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports
> exporting markup to HTML and CSS.
>
> XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for
> prototyping.
>
> To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be
> much less work to add in support than write your own design view.
>
> YouTube playlist
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX
>
> Documentation
> https://velara-3.gitbook.io/web-export/
>
> More comments inline...
>
> On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>>  While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is 
>> are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't 
>> possible with Flash Player.
>>
>>  IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the 
>> x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.
>
> Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it
> updates live in the browser (for HTML).
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfQQkxi8eG4=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX=10=0s
>
> You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the
> MXML document each time it changes.
>
>>  The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the 
>> browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some 
>> button that will then update the MXML.
>>
>>  There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are 
>> available at this time. The main one is that use of view states greatly 
>> complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well). So one 
>> question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
>
> XD supports states in a way. What I've seen from users is they have
> different pages and manually switch between them. I think the way XD
> creates it's live prototypes is listing all property changes. That
> information can be stored in State markup.
>
> If you (or other Flex devs) want to join me on adding Royale support to
> Web Export I can add you to the github project and you'll be about one
> year further along towards a GUI.
>
> Jude

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Paul Stearns]

Alex:

Having not written a GUI IDE, I am a Monday morning quarterback in this regard, 
but it seems to me;

If Royale's intention is to start as its base most/all of Flex's language then 
FB would be conceptually a great place to start. However this would only be 
true were one to use Eclipse as the underlying architecture for the IDE.

Obviously all of the compiling/transpiling & connections to the browser would 
need to be rewritten. But the GUI and the intellisense stuff would all be done.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui 
Sent: 3/11/20 2:00 PM
To: "users@flex.apache.org" , "pa...@compuace.com" 

Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
FB DV is Flash Builder Design View. I don't think there is much FB code that is 
useful to the current teams building a Royale IDE. I don't know what the future 
of FB is, but I don't think there will be future releases.

But some of the principles behind FB's DV, could be applied to live-editing in 
Royale and I think it would be better than having it in an IDE.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

On 3/11/20, 10:04 AM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:

Alex:

Not to sound too ignorant, what is "FB DV?"

What is Adobe doing with FlashBuilder? If they are deprecating Flash, what use 
do they have for FlashBuilder? That might be a good code base for a Royale GUI 
IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui
Sent: 3/11/20 11:56 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org" , "pa...@compuace.com"
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
I hear what you are saying, but I am hopeful that we can build that into your 
app sort of like an automated testing plugin. Royale will eventually need to 
support other automated testing libraries and other code that "disappears at 
production". One of the reasons for having "beads" underneath the components is 
so that we can more easily add/remove helpful pieces of code to enhance 
productivity.

IIRC, the FB DV was essentially running your app loaded into a DV Flex app. I 
am hopeful that Royale is set up so that you can essentially plug in DV 
functionality into your app (instead of wrapping it, which caused occasional 
issues in FB).

-Alex

On 3/11/20, 8:48 AM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:

I think we will have to disagree on this.

Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a 
GUI;

I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select 
multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 
20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate 
display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code 
may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.

I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with 
their relative positions intact.

Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the 
selected items.

Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step 
back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in 
near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI 
IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588

------------
From: Alex Harui
Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org"
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any 
IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have 
fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than 
hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

Re: GUI IDE need.

[QA]

Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've 
planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the 
backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin 
for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports 
exporting markup to HTML and CSS.


XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for 
prototyping.


To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be 
much less work to add in support than write your own design view.


YouTube playlist
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX

Documentation
https://velara-3.gitbook.io/web-export/

More comments inline...

On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote:

While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are 
some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't 
possible with Flash Player.

IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the 
x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.


Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it 
updates live in the browser (for HTML).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfQQkxi8eG4=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX=10=0s

You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the 
MXML document each time it changes.



The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the browser 
so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some button that will 
then update the MXML.

There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are available 
at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly complicates 
these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one question for you, 
are you using view states (mx:State)?


XD supports states in a way. What I've seen from users is they have 
different pages and manually switch between them. I think the way XD 
creates it's live prototypes is listing all property changes. That 
information can be stored in State markup.


If you (or other Flex devs) want to join me on adding Royale support to 
Web Export I can add you to the github project and you'll be about one 
year further along towards a GUI.


Jude

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Alex Harui]

FB DV is Flash Builder Design View.  I don't think there is much FB code that 
is useful to the current teams building a Royale IDE.  I don't know what the 
future of FB is, but I don't think there will be future releases.

But some of the principles behind FB's DV, could be applied to live-editing in 
Royale and I think it would be better than having it in an IDE.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

On 3/11/20, 10:04 AM, "Paul Stearns"  wrote:

Alex:

Not to sound too ignorant, what is "FB DV?"

What is Adobe doing with FlashBuilder? If they are deprecating Flash, what 
use do they have for FlashBuilder? That might be a good code base for a Royale 
GUI IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui 
Sent: 3/11/20 11:56 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org" , "pa...@compuace.com" 

Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
I hear what you are saying, but I am hopeful that we can build that into 
your app sort of like an automated testing plugin. Royale will eventually need 
to support other automated testing libraries and other code that "disappears at 
production". One of the reasons for having "beads" underneath the components is 
so that we can more easily add/remove helpful pieces of code to enhance 
productivity.

IIRC, the FB DV was essentially running your app loaded into a DV Flex app. 
I am hopeful that Royale is set up so that you can essentially plug in DV 
functionality into your app (instead of wrapping it, which caused occasional 
issues in FB).

-Alex

On 3/11/20, 8:48 AM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:

I think we will have to disagree on this.

Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult 
without a GUI;

I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select 
multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 
20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate 
display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code 
may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.

I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with 
their relative positions intact.

Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the 
selected items.

Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a 
step back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes 
in near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good 
GUI IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui
    Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org"
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, 
Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to 
have fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than 
hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Paul Stearns]

Alex:

Not to sound too ignorant, what is "FB DV?"

What is Adobe doing with FlashBuilder? If they are deprecating Flash, what use 
do they have for FlashBuilder? That might be a good code base for a Royale GUI 
IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui 
Sent: 3/11/20 11:56 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org" , "pa...@compuace.com" 

Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
I hear what you are saying, but I am hopeful that we can build that into your 
app sort of like an automated testing plugin. Royale will eventually need to 
support other automated testing libraries and other code that "disappears at 
production". One of the reasons for having "beads" underneath the components is 
so that we can more easily add/remove helpful pieces of code to enhance 
productivity.

IIRC, the FB DV was essentially running your app loaded into a DV Flex app. I 
am hopeful that Royale is set up so that you can essentially plug in DV 
functionality into your app (instead of wrapping it, which caused occasional 
issues in FB).

-Alex

On 3/11/20, 8:48 AM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:

I think we will have to disagree on this.

Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a 
GUI;

I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select 
multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 
20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate 
display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code 
may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.

I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with 
their relative positions intact.

Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the 
selected items.

Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step 
back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in 
near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI 
IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui
Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org"
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any 
IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have 
fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than 
hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Hans Nuecke]

One little remark/experience from my side as kind of argument against 
pure live-editing and hot-reload:
There is high risk you get in a "try and error mode"; without spending 
sufficient time on thinking!


Several times it happened to me that I ran in a "change-test-change" 
loop for about an hour, always thinking "now I got it".
But after a walk to the restrooms, or even better: a night of sleep, and 
digesting things and spending some time on thinking... The solution was 
there within minutes.


At the end: Nothing is black and white ;-)
Regards

Hans


Am 11.03.2020 um 16:47 schrieb Paul Stearns:

I think we will have to disagree on this.

Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a 
GUI;

I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select 
multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 
20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate 
display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code may 
not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.

I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with 
their relative positions intact.

Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the 
selected items.

Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step 
back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in 
near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI 
IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui 
Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org" 
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:

Hi Paul,


If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed

to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any 
IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have 
fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than 
hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Alex Harui]

I hear what you are saying, but I am hopeful that we can build that into your 
app sort of like an automated testing plugin.  Royale will eventually need to 
support other automated testing libraries and other code that "disappears at 
production".  One of the reasons for having "beads" underneath the components 
is so that we can more easily add/remove helpful pieces of code to enhance 
productivity.

IIRC, the FB DV was essentially running your app loaded into a DV Flex app.  I 
am hopeful that Royale is set up so that you can essentially plug in DV 
functionality into your app (instead of wrapping it, which caused occasional 
issues in FB).

-Alex

On 3/11/20, 8:48 AM, "Paul Stearns"  wrote:

I think we will have to disagree on this.

Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult 
without a GUI;

I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select 
multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 
20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate 
display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code 
may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.

I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with 
their relative positions intact. 

Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the 
selected items.

Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a 
step back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes 
in near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good 
GUI IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui 
Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org" 
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, 
Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to 
have fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than 
hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Paul Stearns]

I think we will have to disagree on this.

Three things (that I can think of quickly), which would be difficult without a 
GUI;

I use quite regularly the alignment capabilities of the IDE, where I select 
multiple items and align right, left, bottom, middle , top & center. If I have 
20 fields on a form I want to align I can't do it visually using the immediate 
display technique. Additionally when I am initially designing my form, the code 
may not be complete enough to be displayed in a browser.

I will also often grab multiple items and move them around the screen, with 
their relative positions intact.

Selecting multiple items and then modifying multiple properties for the 
selected items.

Doing all of this manually is a waste of valuable developers time, and a step 
back into the dark ages. Yes having something that displays your changes in 
near real-time is better than nothing, but hardly a replacement for a good GUI 
IDE.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui 
Sent: 3/11/20 11:19 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org" 
Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger" wrote:

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work. IMO, Any 
IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to have 
fidelity issues. Live-editing has the potential to be even better than 
hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Alex Harui]

On 3/11/20, 4:43 AM, "Olaf Krueger"  wrote:

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.

Hence my hope that someone will make live-editing of Royale MXML work.  IMO, 
Any IDE DesignView equivalent that doesn't use a browser to render is going to 
have fidelity issues.  Live-editing has the potential to be even better than 
hot-reload for some scenarios.

Of course, I could be wrong...
-Alex

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Olaf Krueger]

Hi Paul,

>If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be
productive.

Not agree.
Modern JS frameworks are supporting "hot reload" (Royale not yet) which
means the browser view is refreshing automatically after any code
change/compilation... and depending on the framework and project, this just
takes seconds or milliseconds. So, you see the results in near realtime
instead of waiting for the compiler and restarting your app all the time.


>If you are designing traditional web applications where everything is
stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do that without a GUI
IDE.

I think these days it is is more a design/UX decison if you go with a "one
page scroll" approach.
Nobody stops you from implementing complex UIs using HTML/CSS/JS.

JS frameworks (including Royale) are "component driven" like Flex.
So, breaking down complex apps into reusable components has become the
standard in web development.


>My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found
here...

As Carlos mentioned, I guess you should be able to implement this by using
Royale/Jewel or any other JS framework out there.
But with Flex, we were used to had anything (or most of the things) we need
within the SDK.
With JS development (including Royale) you might want to use 3rd party (UI)
libaries in order to increase quality and productivity.


Just my 2 cents,
Olaf























--
Sent from: http://apache-flex-users.246.n4.nabble.com/

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Piotr Zarzycki]

Hi Alex,

We have different plan. We have currently Visual Editor which as part of
Moonshine IDE output Flex and PrimeFaces code, so it would be continuation
of that idea - the difference would be that we output Jewel Royale mxml
code.

wt., 10 mar 2020 o 16:39 Alex Harui  napisał(a):

> Sounds exciting.  Hopefully the GUI editor will use a browser as the
> renderer and be more like live-editing than trying to emulate the browser
> DOM.
>
> Of course, I could be wrong...
>
> -Alex
>
> On 3/10/20, 4:39 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki"  wrote:
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> We have plan to add simple GUI IDE to Moonshine which outputs Royale
> Jewel
> type of applications. Be patience and observer Moonshine IDE on
> GitHub. ;)
>
> Thanks,
> Piotr
>
> wt., 10 mar 2020 o 11:05 Carlos Rovira 
> napisał(a):
>
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
> > development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation
> components.
> > You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> >
> > El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui
> ()
> > escribió:
> >
> > > While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale,
> there
> > > is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and
> one that
> > > wasn't possible with Flash Player.
> > >
> > > IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to
> edit
> > > the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results
> in the
> > > browser.
> > >
> > > The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML
> from the
> > > browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit
> some
> > > button that will then update the MXML.
> > >
> > > There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none
> are
> > > available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states
> greatly
> > > complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).
> So one
> > > question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
> > >
> > > -Alex
> > >
> > > On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger
> modules
> > has
> > > 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29
> enterable
> > > "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
> > >
> > > Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the
> type of
> > > data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best
> without
> > > using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web
> applications
> > where
> > > everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you
> can do
> > that
> > > without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable
> business
> > > applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase)
> you need
> > > GUI tools to be productive.
> > >
> > > My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can
> be found
> > > here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as
> > expected,
> > > let me know, no data is stored)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909967487sdata=9FwboMWcAlwGX7FtsA8q6%2B1Fb1L1obsoI7VS8ONISCA%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> > > Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with
> x/y
> > > placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
> > >
> > > Paul R. Stearns
> > > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> > >
> > > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > > Suite 250
> > > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> > >
> > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > > Fax: (305)623-4588
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Carlos Rovira 
> > > Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
> > > To: users@flex.apache.org, Paul Stearns 
> > > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that
> reason I
> > > started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash
> and AMF
> > in
> > > early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC
> (someone
> > > remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just
> needed. That
> > > was
> > > very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that
> time.
> > >
> > > Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode
> in
> > Flash
> > 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Alex Harui]

Sounds exciting.  Hopefully the GUI editor will use a browser as the renderer 
and be more like live-editing than trying to emulate the browser DOM.

Of course, I could be wrong...

-Alex

On 3/10/20, 4:39 AM, "Piotr Zarzycki"  wrote:

Hi Guys,

We have plan to add simple GUI IDE to Moonshine which outputs Royale Jewel
type of applications. Be patience and observer Moonshine IDE on GitHub. ;)

Thanks,
Piotr

wt., 10 mar 2020 o 11:05 Carlos Rovira  napisał(a):

> Hi Paul,
>
> the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
> development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation components.
> You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).
>
> Best
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui ()
> escribió:
>
> > While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there
> > is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that
> > wasn't possible with Flash Player.
> >
> > IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit
> > the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the
> > browser.
> >
> > The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the
> > browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some
> > button that will then update the MXML.
> >
> > There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are
> > available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly
> > complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one
> > question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns"  wrote:
> >
> > Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules
> has
> > 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable
> > "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
> >
> > Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type 
of
> > data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without
> > using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications
> where
> > everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do
> that
> > without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business
> > applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you 
need
> > GUI tools to be productive.
> >
> > My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be 
found
> > here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as
> expected,
> > let me know, no data is stored)
> >
> >
> >
> 
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C3973fca8e91b4f4cd67808d7c4e7bd62%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637194371909967487sdata=9FwboMWcAlwGX7FtsA8q6%2B1Fb1L1obsoI7VS8ONISCA%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y
> > placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
> >
> > Paul R. Stearns
> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >
> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > Suite 250
> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >
> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > Fax: (305)623-4588
> >
> > 
> > From: Carlos Rovira 
> > Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
> > To: users@flex.apache.org, Paul Stearns 
> > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason 
I
> > started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF
> in
> > early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC 
(someone
> > remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That
> > was
> > very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.
> >
> > Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in
> Flash
> > and
> > Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go
> > very
> > "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). 
But
> > Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that 
route.
> > and
> > just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
> > that...and I think we're already got it. :)
> >
> > About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have
> > something
> > like that, I 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Paul Stearns]

I believe we use view states a few modules which we wrote very early on.

Once we started writing for production, we didn't see the utility in view 
states. Granular control was better handled in other ways.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Alex Harui 
Sent: 3/10/20 12:28 AM
To: "users@flex.apache.org" , "pa...@compuace.com" 

Subject: Re: GUI IDE need.
While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are 
some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't 
possible with Flash Player.

IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the 
x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.

The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the browser 
so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some button that will 
then update the MXML.

There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are available 
at this time. The main one is that use of view states greatly complicates these 
approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well). So one question for you, are you 
using view states (mx:State)?

-Alex

On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" wrote:

Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules has 1,390 
lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable "fields" 
another tab has over 50 enterable fields.

Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of data 
entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without using a GUI 
editor. If you are designing traditional web applications where everything is 
stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do that without a GUI 
IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed 
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be productive.

My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found here, be 
sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as expected, let me know, 
no data is stored)

https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3D=0

Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y placement of 
items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Carlos Rovira
Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
To: users@flex.apache.org, Paul Stearns
Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
Hi Paul,

many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF in
early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That was
very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.

Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in Flash and
Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go very
"low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route. and
just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
that...and I think we're already got it. :)

About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have something
like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in the
future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure, but
for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more needed.
Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the current
Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like Tour De
Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn from it
a lot of good practices.

El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
escribió:

> What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
> environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and their
> multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every other week a
> new version of a browser would break something.
>
> For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI IDE, a
> defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which provides
> consistent results across platforms are the most important features. At
> this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Carlos Rovira]

That sounds very cool Piotr! :)

El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 12:39, Piotr Zarzycki (<
piotrzarzyck...@gmail.com>) escribió:

> Hi Guys,
>
> We have plan to add simple GUI IDE to Moonshine which outputs Royale Jewel
> type of applications. Be patience and observer Moonshine IDE on GitHub. ;)
>
> Thanks,
> Piotr
>
> wt., 10 mar 2020 o 11:05 Carlos Rovira 
> napisał(a):
>
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
> > development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation
> components.
> > You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Carlos
> >
> >
> >
> > El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui ( >)
> > escribió:
> >
> > > While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale,
> there
> > > is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one
> that
> > > wasn't possible with Flash Player.
> > >
> > > IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit
> > > the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in
> the
> > > browser.
> > >
> > > The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the
> > > browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some
> > > button that will then update the MXML.
> > >
> > > There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are
> > > available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states
> greatly
> > > complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So
> one
> > > question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
> > >
> > > -Alex
> > >
> > > On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns" 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules
> > has
> > > 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29
> enterable
> > > "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
> > >
> > > Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type
> of
> > > data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best
> without
> > > using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications
> > where
> > > everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do
> > that
> > > without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business
> > > applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you
> need
> > > GUI tools to be productive.
> > >
> > > My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be
> found
> > > here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as
> > expected,
> > > let me know, no data is stored)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790sdata=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3Dreserved=0
> > >
> > > Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y
> > > placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
> > >
> > > Paul R. Stearns
> > > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> > >
> > > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > > Suite 250
> > > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> > >
> > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > > Fax: (305)623-4588
> > >
> > > 
> > > From: Carlos Rovira 
> > > Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
> > > To: users@flex.apache.org, Paul Stearns 
> > > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > > Hi Paul,
> > >
> > > many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that
> reason I
> > > started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and
> AMF
> > in
> > > early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC
> (someone
> > > remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed.
> That
> > > was
> > > very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.
> > >
> > > Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in
> > Flash
> > > and
> > > Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go
> > > very
> > > "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good).
> But
> > > Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that
> route.
> > > and
> > > just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
> > > that...and I think we're already got it. :)
> > >
> > > About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have
> > > something
> > > like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in
> > the
> > > future I could be working in something like that, just for
> pleasure,
> > > but
> > > for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more
> > needed.
> > > Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Piotr Zarzycki]

Hi Guys,

We have plan to add simple GUI IDE to Moonshine which outputs Royale Jewel
type of applications. Be patience and observer Moonshine IDE on GitHub. ;)

Thanks,
Piotr

wt., 10 mar 2020 o 11:05 Carlos Rovira  napisał(a):

> Hi Paul,
>
> the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
> development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation components.
> You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).
>
> Best
>
> Carlos
>
>
>
> El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui ()
> escribió:
>
> > While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there
> > is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that
> > wasn't possible with Flash Player.
> >
> > IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit
> > the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the
> > browser.
> >
> > The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the
> > browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some
> > button that will then update the MXML.
> >
> > There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are
> > available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly
> > complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one
> > question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
> >
> > -Alex
> >
> > On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns"  wrote:
> >
> > Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules
> has
> > 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable
> > "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
> >
> > Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of
> > data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without
> > using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications
> where
> > everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do
> that
> > without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business
> > applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need
> > GUI tools to be productive.
> >
> > My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found
> > here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as
> expected,
> > let me know, no data is stored)
> >
> >
> >
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790sdata=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3Dreserved=0
> >
> > Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y
> > placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
> >
> > Paul R. Stearns
> > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
> >
> > 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> > Suite 250
> > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
> >
> > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> > Fax: (305)623-4588
> >
> > 
> > From: Carlos Rovira 
> > Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
> > To: users@flex.apache.org, Paul Stearns 
> > Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> > Hi Paul,
> >
> > many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
> > started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF
> in
> > early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
> > remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That
> > was
> > very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.
> >
> > Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in
> Flash
> > and
> > Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go
> > very
> > "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
> > Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route.
> > and
> > just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
> > that...and I think we're already got it. :)
> >
> > About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have
> > something
> > like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in
> the
> > future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure,
> > but
> > for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more
> needed.
> > Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the
> current
> > Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like
> > Tour De
> > Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn
> > from it
> > a lot of good practices.
> >
> > El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
> > escribió:
> >
> > > What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
> > > 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Carlos Rovira]

Hi Paul,

the example you posted is easy to do nowadays with current Royale in
development branch. You can take a try with Jewel or emulation components.
You'll be surprised of how far Royale is this days :).

Best

Carlos



El mar., 10 mar. 2020 a las 5:28, Alex Harui ()
escribió:

> While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there
> is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that
> wasn't possible with Flash Player.
>
> IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit
> the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the
> browser.
>
> The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the
> browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some
> button that will then update the MXML.
>
> There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are
> available at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly
> complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one
> question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)?
>
> -Alex
>
> On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns"  wrote:
>
> Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules has
> 1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable
> "fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.
>
> Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of
> data entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without
> using a GUI editor. If you are designing traditional web applications where
> everything is stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do that
> without a GUI IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business
> applications deployed to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need
> GUI tools to be productive.
>
> My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found
> here, be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as expected,
> let me know, no data is stored)
>
>
> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790sdata=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3Dreserved=0
>
> Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y
> placement of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.
>
> Paul R. Stearns
> Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.
>
> 15280 NW 79th Ct.
> Suite 250
> Miami Lakes, Fl 33016
>
> Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
> Fax: (305)623-4588
>
> 
> From: Carlos Rovira 
> Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
> To: users@flex.apache.org, Paul Stearns 
> Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
> Hi Paul,
>
> many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
> started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF in
> early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
> remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That
> was
> very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.
>
> Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in Flash
> and
> Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go
> very
> "low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
> Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route.
> and
> just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
> that...and I think we're already got it. :)
>
> About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have
> something
> like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in the
> future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure,
> but
> for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more needed.
> Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the current
> Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like
> Tour De
> Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn
> from it
> a lot of good practices.
>
> El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
> escribió:
>
> > What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
> > environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and their
> > multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every other
> week a
> > new version of a browser would break something.
> >
> > For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI IDE, a
> > defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which provides
> > consistent results across platforms are the most important features.
> At
> > this 

Re: GUI IDE need.

[Alex Harui]

While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are 
some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't 
possible with Flash Player.

IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the 
x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser.

The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the browser 
so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some button that will 
then update the MXML.

There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are available 
at this time.  The main one is that use of view states greatly complicates 
these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well).  So one question for you, 
are you using view states (mx:State)?

-Alex

On 3/9/20, 8:26 PM, "Paul Stearns"  wrote:

Regarding a GUI IDE, in one application, one of the larger modules has 
1,390 lines of mxml code. One of 10 tabs in that module has 29 enterable 
"fields" another tab has over 50 enterable fields.

Attempting to create complex screens which are usable for the type of data 
entry these systems are used for would be difficult at best without using a GUI 
editor. If you are designing traditional web applications where everything is 
stacked and the user scrolls forever then yes you can do that without a GUI 
IDE. If however you want to design highly usable business applications deployed 
to thin clients (to use an ancient phrase) you need GUI tools to be productive.

My initial test application (very simplistic) for Royale can be found here, 
be sure to click everything; (If something doesn't work as expected, let me 
know, no data is stored)


https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fflex.yozyo.net%2FTestModule%2Fbin-release%2FMain.html%3Ftest%3D123data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7C2d118f114b934f5c2b7f08d7c4a2d308%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C1%7C637194075912239790sdata=iA9Av%2FhjDmDmMqdRVgsb2wb33Eqq8G7VVpbQ1cQDJ%2Bg%3Dreserved=0
 

Some of the The features I am looking for include canvas with x/y placement 
of items, multiple panels up simultaneously, etc.

Paul R. Stearns
Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc.

15280 NW 79th Ct.
Suite 250
Miami Lakes, Fl 33016

Voice: (305)623-0360 x107
Fax: (305)623-4588


From: Carlos Rovira 
Sent: 3/9/20 6:14 PM
To: users@flex.apache.org, Paul Stearns 
Subject: Re: [Spam] :Re: Flex 4.16.1 broken for AIR33.1?
Hi Paul,

many years ago I must say that was completely true, for that reason I
started trying to introduce in my clients and projects Flash and AMF in
early 2000, first with Flash authoring tool, then with MTASC (someone
remember it? ;)), and then Flex was really what we just needed. That was
very disruptive compared with the html/js/css stack at that time.

Currently that's not true. Near 2020, js is like the bytecode in Flash and
Royale is the current Flex. So it's clear that you don't need to go very
"low level", but if you needed, you can do it! (and that's good). But
Royale should allow you to develop without the need to go that route. and
just use good proven patterns like Flex did. We're working towards
that...and I think we're already got it. :)

About GUI IDE, although I think is something very cool to have something
like that, I abandoned that kind of tools many years ago. Maybe in the
future I could be working in something like that, just for pleasure, but
for now there's still many work to do in Royale in things more needed.
Maybe others could drive that effort... But I really think the current
Royale coding is very straight forward to do. As well examples like Tour De
Jewel has a lot of code to see how things should be used and learn from it
a lot of good practices.

El lun., 9 mar. 2020 a las 22:48, Paul Stearns ()
escribió:

> What attracted me to Flex initially was that it ran in its own
> environment, completely separate from the html, web browser and their
> multitude of DOMs. I used to write apps in ASP/HTML, and every other week 
a
> new version of a browser would break something.
>
> For the type of applications I write & support, having a GUI IDE, a
> defined language (like as3 & mxml) and an engine which which provides
> consistent results across platforms are the most important features. At
> this point the weakness I see in Royale is there isn't a GUI IDE, and 
since
> it doesn't have its own engine, it relies on the vicissitudes of 
javascript
> and how the particular browser it is running in implements its DOM.
>
> This is why I shied away from .NET, and PHP in the past except for more
> traditional websites with a bit of user interaction. Javascript frameworks
>