Re: Benefits of Semantic web
t;>> adriandwal...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Baran, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> You wrote: >>>>>> *This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a >>>>>> special >>>>>> application field.* >>>>>> Here's a simplified kernel that arguably covers wider version of >>>>>> application semantics than the usual "semantic web" tools. >>>>>> >>>>>> Here's a summary slide: >>>>>> >>>>>> www.executable-english.com/internet_business_logic_in_a_nuts >>>>>> hell.pdf >>>>>> >>>>>> The system that supports this is live, online at >>>>>> www.executable-english.com. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Shared use is free, and there are no advertisements. Nothing to >>>>>> download, >>>>>> just point a browser to the site. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for comments,-- Adrian >>>>>> >>>>>> Adrian Walker >>>>>> Reengineering LLC >>>>>> San Jose, CA, USA >>>>>> 860 830 2085 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:33 AM, wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:02:46 +0100, David Jordan < >>>>>>> jdavidjorda...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of >>>>>>> us >>>>>>> >>>>>>> have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our >>>>>>> organizations >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient >>>>>>>> justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value >>>>>>>> provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much >>>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>>> than simple support questions about a particular API interface. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this >>>>>>> thread >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> an open minded way... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But i also want to describe something for the future: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily >>>>>>> understandable >>>>>>> and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic >>>>>>> Web' >>>>>>> defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> today. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The >>>>>>> most >>>>>>> exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' >>>>>>> >>>>>>> First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This >>>>>>> means >>>>>>> downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special >>>>>>> application >>>>>>> field... Better late than never... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so >>>>>>> many >>>>>>> years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but >>>>>>> my >>>>>>> posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is >>>>>>> allowed... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> thanks, baran. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not >>>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> real advantages of semantic web. >>>>>>>>>> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same >>>>>>>>>> system >>>>>>>>>> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the >>>>>>>>>> advantage >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> the latter application? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> >>> > > -- > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
c Web is not what we can imagine to do with it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special application field... Better late than never... This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so many years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but my posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is allowed... thanks, baran. On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the real advantages of semantic web. When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of the latter application? -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
gt; >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this >>>>> thread >>>>> in >>>>> an open minded way... >>>>> >>>>> But i also want to describe something for the future: >>>>> >>>>> I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily >>>>> understandable >>>>> and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing >>>>> 'Semantic Web' >>>>> defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual >>>>> apps of >>>>> today. >>>>> >>>>> This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): >>>>> 'The most >>>>> exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to >>>>> do with >>>>> it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' >>>>> >>>>> First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This >>>>> means >>>>> downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special >>>>> application >>>>> field... Better late than never... >>>>> >>>>> This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after >>>>> so many >>>>> years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, >>>>> but my >>>>> posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is >>>>> allowed... >>>>> >>>>> thanks, baran. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not >>>>>>>> sure >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> real advantages of semantic web. >>>>>>>> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same >>>>>>>> system >>>>>>>> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the >>>>>>>> advantage >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the latter application? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> > > -- Lorenz Bühmann AKSW group, University of Leipzig Group: http://aksw.org - semantic web research center
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
gt;>>>>> justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value >>>>>> provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much >>>>>> more >>>>>> valuable >>>>>> than simple support questions about a particular API interface. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this thread >>>>> in >>>>> an open minded way... >>>>> >>>>> But i also want to describe something for the future: >>>>> >>>>> I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily >>>>> understandable >>>>> and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic >>>>> Web' >>>>> defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps of >>>>> today. >>>>> >>>>> This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The >>>>> most >>>>> exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do >>>>> with >>>>> it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' >>>>> >>>>> First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This means >>>>> downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special >>>>> application >>>>> field... Better late than never... >>>>> >>>>> This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so >>>>> many >>>>> years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but my >>>>> posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is allowed... >>>>> >>>>> thanks, baran. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used >>>>>>> >>>>>>> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> real advantages of semantic web. >>>>>>>> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same >>>>>>>> system >>>>>>>> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the >>>>>>>> advantage >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> the latter application? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> -- >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> >>> > > -- > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Hello, I still need some explanation. What is the advantage of using ontology in our semantic web application. Its just that we can share it? Second, what is the advantage of Jena rules? A task completed with an RDF API and same task with Jena rules, why people prefer rules? i think, kumar's both questions together make sense. Ontologies + Rules make the whole thing really very complex. My question: Is it a possible scenario to think a Semantic Web environment controlled only by rules? thanks, baran ** Thanks. On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, wrote: Adrian, i think this is a rather old and not yet fully developed application with a UI needing a bit freshing up for smoothly working, databases are (I tried with commodities1/2) also old and rather small. Is gold no commodity? if i put a question with an agent the effect is only reordering the list of general questions. My suggestion is: Let at first as input for an agent not only questions but also the option of a single item and then give a list of possible questions the agent can answer exactly for this item. May be i couldn't get everything so how it is meant... But the idea as whole has some original aspects, that was really what i meant: Trying away from heavy classical view of SPARQL databases connected to certain ontologies with a lot of small surprising error effects in developement, so that people ask: Why dont you make a simple SQL database, you talk then about Semantic Web, Linked Data basing on triples and URI's and of course about public endpoints. Then comes the question: 'public' endpoints with this performance where SPARQL only an adapted SQL for triples is? etc... I think you could next fresh up your concept if you have time for it, the other question is how it would react under heavy usage... This is my comment after 20 minutes, sorry that i had not much more time... ** On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 07:05:54 +0100, Adrian Walker wrote: Baran, You wrote: *This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special application field.* Here's a simplified kernel that arguably covers wider version of application semantics than the usual "semantic web" tools. Here's a summary slide: www.executable-english.com/internet_business_logic_in_a_nutshell.pdf The system that supports this is live, online at www.executable-english.com. Shared use is free, and there are no advertisements. Nothing to download, just point a browser to the site. Thanks for comments,-- Adrian Adrian Walker Reengineering LLC San Jose, CA, USA 860 830 2085 On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:33 AM, wrote: Hello, On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:02:46 +0100, David Jordan < jdavidjorda...@gmail.com> wrote: I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more valuable than simple support questions about a particular API interface. yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this thread in an open minded way... But i also want to describe something for the future: I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily understandable and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic Web' defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps of today. This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The most exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do with it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special application field... Better late than never... This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so many years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but my posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is allowed... thanks, baran. ******** On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the real advantages of semantic web. When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of the latter application? -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
> provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much >> more >>>>>>> valuable >>>>>>> than simple support questions about a particular API interface. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this >> thread >>>>>> in >>>>>> an open minded way... >>>>>> >>>>>> But i also want to describe something for the future: >>>>>> >>>>>> I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily >> understandable >>>>>> and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic >> Web' >>>>>> defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps of >>>>>> today. >>>>>> >>>>>> This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The >> most >>>>>> exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do >> with >>>>>> it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' >>>>>> >>>>>> First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This >> means >>>>>> downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special >>>>>> application >>>>>> field... Better late than never... >>>>>> >>>>>> This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so >> many >>>>>> years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but my >>>>>> posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is allowed... >>>>>> >>>>>> thanks, baran. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not >> sure >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> real advantages of semantic web. >>>>>>>>> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same >>>>>>>>> system >>>>>>>>> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the >>>>>>>>> advantage >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> the latter application? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>>> >> -- >> Lorenz Bühmann >> AKSW group, University of Leipzig >> Group: http://aksw.org - semantic web research center >> >> -- Lorenz Bühmann AKSW group, University of Leipzig Group: http://aksw.org - semantic web research center
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
so want to describe something for the future: > >>>> > >>>> I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily > understandable > >>>> and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic > Web' > >>>> defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps of > >>>> today. > >>>> > >>>> This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The > most > >>>> exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do > with > >>>> it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' > >>>> > >>>> First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This > means > >>>> downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special > >>>> application > >>>> field... Better late than never... > >>>> > >>>> This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so > many > >>>> years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but my > >>>> posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is allowed... > >>>> > >>>> thanks, baran. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: > >>>> > >>>>>> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not > sure > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> real advantages of semantic web. > >>>>>>> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same > >>>>>>> system > >>>>>>> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the > >>>>>>> advantage > >>>>>>> of > >>>>>>> the latter application? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > >>>> > >>>> > >> -- > >> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > >> > -- > Lorenz Bühmann > AKSW group, University of Leipzig > Group: http://aksw.org - semantic web research center > >
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Do you understand the different between rules used for inference and RDF which contains asserted data? > Thanks all for explanation. > > I still need some explanation. What is the advantage of using ontology in > our semantic web application. Its just that we can share it? > > Second, what is the advantage of Jena rules? A task completed with an RDF > API and same task with Jena rules, why people prefer rules? > > Thanks. > > On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, wrote: > >> Adrian, i think this is a rather old and not yet fully developed >> application with a UI needing a bit freshing up for smoothly working, >> databases are (I tried with commodities1/2) also old and rather small. Is >> gold no commodity? if i put a question with an agent the effect is only >> reordering the list of general questions. My suggestion is: Let at first as >> input for an agent not only questions but also the option of a single item >> and then give a list of possible questions the agent can answer exactly for >> this item. May be i couldn't get everything so how it is meant... >> >> But the idea as whole has some original aspects, that was really what i >> meant: Trying away from heavy classical view of SPARQL databases connected >> to certain ontologies with a lot of small surprising error effects in >> developement, so that people ask: Why dont you make a simple SQL database, >> you talk then about Semantic Web, Linked Data basing on triples and URI's >> and of course about public endpoints. Then comes the question: 'public' >> endpoints with this performance where SPARQL only an adapted SQL for >> triples is? etc... >> >> I think you could next fresh up your concept if you have time for it, the >> other question is how it would react under heavy usage... This is my >> comment after 20 minutes, sorry that i had not much more time... >> >> ** >> >> >> On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 07:05:54 +0100, Adrian Walker >> wrote: >> >> Baran, >>> You wrote: >>> *This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a >>> special >>> application field.* >>> Here's a simplified kernel that arguably covers wider version of >>> application semantics than the usual "semantic web" tools. >>> >>> Here's a summary slide: >>> >>> www.executable-english.com/internet_business_logic_in_a_nutshell.pdf >>> >>> The system that supports this is live, online at >>> www.executable-english.com. >>> >>> >>> Shared use is free, and there are no advertisements. Nothing to download, >>> just point a browser to the site. >>> >>> Thanks for comments,-- Adrian >>> >>> Adrian Walker >>> Reengineering LLC >>> San Jose, CA, USA >>> 860 830 2085 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:33 AM, wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:02:46 +0100, David Jordan < >>>> jdavidjorda...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us >>>> >>>>> have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations >>>>> and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient >>>>> justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value >>>>> provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more >>>>> valuable >>>>> than simple support questions about a particular API interface. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this thread >>>> in >>>> an open minded way... >>>> >>>> But i also want to describe something for the future: >>>> >>>> I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily understandable >>>> and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic Web' >>>> defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps of >>>> today. >>>> >>>> This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The most >>>> exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do with >>>> it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' >>>> >>>> First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This means >>>>
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Thanks all for explanation. I still need some explanation. What is the advantage of using ontology in our semantic web application. Its just that we can share it? Second, what is the advantage of Jena rules? A task completed with an RDF API and same task with Jena rules, why people prefer rules? Thanks. On Sun, Feb 12, 2017 at 11:28 AM, wrote: > > Adrian, i think this is a rather old and not yet fully developed > application with a UI needing a bit freshing up for smoothly working, > databases are (I tried with commodities1/2) also old and rather small. Is > gold no commodity? if i put a question with an agent the effect is only > reordering the list of general questions. My suggestion is: Let at first as > input for an agent not only questions but also the option of a single item > and then give a list of possible questions the agent can answer exactly for > this item. May be i couldn't get everything so how it is meant... > > But the idea as whole has some original aspects, that was really what i > meant: Trying away from heavy classical view of SPARQL databases connected > to certain ontologies with a lot of small surprising error effects in > developement, so that people ask: Why dont you make a simple SQL database, > you talk then about Semantic Web, Linked Data basing on triples and URI's > and of course about public endpoints. Then comes the question: 'public' > endpoints with this performance where SPARQL only an adapted SQL for > triples is? etc... > > I think you could next fresh up your concept if you have time for it, the > other question is how it would react under heavy usage... This is my > comment after 20 minutes, sorry that i had not much more time... > > ** > > > On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 07:05:54 +0100, Adrian Walker > wrote: > > Baran, >> >> You wrote: >> *This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a >> special >> application field.* >> Here's a simplified kernel that arguably covers wider version of >> application semantics than the usual "semantic web" tools. >> >> Here's a summary slide: >> >> www.executable-english.com/internet_business_logic_in_a_nutshell.pdf >> >> The system that supports this is live, online at >> www.executable-english.com. >> >> >> Shared use is free, and there are no advertisements. Nothing to download, >> just point a browser to the site. >> >> Thanks for comments,-- Adrian >> >> Adrian Walker >> Reengineering LLC >> San Jose, CA, USA >> 860 830 2085 >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:33 AM, wrote: >> >> Hello, >>> >>> On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:02:46 +0100, David Jordan < >>> jdavidjorda...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us >>> >>>> have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations >>>> and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient >>>> justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value >>>> provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more >>>> valuable >>>> than simple support questions about a particular API interface. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this thread >>> in >>> an open minded way... >>> >>> But i also want to describe something for the future: >>> >>> I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily understandable >>> and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic Web' >>> defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps of >>> today. >>> >>> This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The most >>> exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do with >>> it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' >>> >>> First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This means >>> downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special >>> application >>> field... Better late than never... >>> >>> This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so many >>> years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but my >>> posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is allowed... >>> >>> thanks, baran. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: >>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used >>>>> >>>>>> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure >>>>>> the >>>>>> real advantages of semantic web. >>>>>> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same >>>>>> system >>>>>> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the >>>>>> advantage >>>>>> of >>>>>> the latter application? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> -- >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >>> >>> > > -- > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Adrian, i think this is a rather old and not yet fully developed application with a UI needing a bit freshing up for smoothly working, databases are (I tried with commodities1/2) also old and rather small. Is gold no commodity? if i put a question with an agent the effect is only reordering the list of general questions. My suggestion is: Let at first as input for an agent not only questions but also the option of a single item and then give a list of possible questions the agent can answer exactly for this item. May be i couldn't get everything so how it is meant... But the idea as whole has some original aspects, that was really what i meant: Trying away from heavy classical view of SPARQL databases connected to certain ontologies with a lot of small surprising error effects in developement, so that people ask: Why dont you make a simple SQL database, you talk then about Semantic Web, Linked Data basing on triples and URI's and of course about public endpoints. Then comes the question: 'public' endpoints with this performance where SPARQL only an adapted SQL for triples is? etc... I think you could next fresh up your concept if you have time for it, the other question is how it would react under heavy usage... This is my comment after 20 minutes, sorry that i had not much more time... ** On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 07:05:54 +0100, Adrian Walker wrote: Baran, You wrote: *This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special application field.* Here's a simplified kernel that arguably covers wider version of application semantics than the usual "semantic web" tools. Here's a summary slide: www.executable-english.com/internet_business_logic_in_a_nutshell.pdf The system that supports this is live, online at www.executable-english.com. Shared use is free, and there are no advertisements. Nothing to download, just point a browser to the site. Thanks for comments,-- Adrian Adrian Walker Reengineering LLC San Jose, CA, USA 860 830 2085 On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:33 AM, wrote: Hello, On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:02:46 +0100, David Jordan wrote: I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more valuable than simple support questions about a particular API interface. yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this thread in an open minded way... But i also want to describe something for the future: I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily understandable and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic Web' defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps of today. This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The most exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do with it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special application field... Better late than never... This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so many years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but my posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is allowed... thanks, baran. ******** On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the real advantages of semantic web. When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of the latter application? -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Baran, You wrote: *This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special application field.* Here's a simplified kernel that arguably covers wider version of application semantics than the usual "semantic web" tools. Here's a summary slide: www.executable-english.com/internet_business_logic_in_a_nutshell.pdf The system that supports this is live, online at www.executable-english.com. Shared use is free, and there are no advertisements. Nothing to download, just point a browser to the site. Thanks for comments,-- Adrian Adrian Walker Reengineering LLC San Jose, CA, USA 860 830 2085 On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 4:33 AM, wrote: > Hello, > > On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:02:46 +0100, David Jordan > wrote: > > I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us >> have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations >> and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient >> justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value >> provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more >> valuable >> than simple support questions about a particular API interface. >> > > > yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this thread in > an open minded way... > > But i also want to describe something for the future: > > I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily understandable > and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic Web' > defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps of > today. > > This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The most > exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do with > it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' > > First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This means > downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special application > field... Better late than never... > > This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so many > years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but my > posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is allowed... > > thanks, baran. > > > > > > On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: >>> >>> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used >>>> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the >>>> real advantages of semantic web. >>>> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same >>>> system >>>> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage >>>> of >>>> the latter application? >>>> >>>> >>>> > > -- > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ >
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Hello, On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:02:46 +0100, David Jordan wrote: I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more valuable than simple support questions about a particular API interface. yes, i thing similar things, also like others responding to this thread in an open minded way... But i also want to describe something for the future: I imagine, a cheekily developer constructs a small, easily understandable and effectively implementable 'subset' of the whole thing 'Semantic Web' defining a new playing field or making great progress in usual apps of today. This cold be the realisation of TBL cit. (about 20 years ago?): 'The most exciting things about Semantic Web is not what we can imagine to do with it, but we can't yet imagine it will do.' First step is always a very simple and comprehensible idea.. This means downsizing the whole thing to a simplified kernel for a special application field... Better late than never... This is really what i instinctively think about this stuff after so many years. I know, such things are totally off topic for Jena team, but my posting is for 2 or 3 users who can be interested, if it is allowed... thanks, baran. On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the real advantages of semantic web. When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of the latter application? -- Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Hello Claude, ok, as far as I understood, those mailing lists are tool specific. More appropriate would be the Semantic Web mailing list on which this question was also asked several times. And also here use-cases of Jena have been asked as far as I remember. And to be honest, there are so many articles out there, that discuss those question and also highlight use-cases. But fair enough, feel free to discuss with him :D Cheers, Lorenz > Lorenz, > > Why is this off topic? Seems to me a discussion of semantic web > technologies and how to apply Jena to solve problems in that space is > appropriate for this mailing list. Granted it is not a "How do I make Jena > do 'X'" question but a discussion of why (and when) to use Jena is just as > important and in my mind on topic as how. > > just my 2-cents. > > Claude > > > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Lorenz B. < > buehm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de> wrote: > >> Sorry, but this is totally off-topic for this mailing list! >> >>> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used >>> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the >>> real advantages of semantic web. >>> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system >>> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage >> of >>> the latter application? >>> >> -- >> Lorenz Bühmann >> AKSW group, University of Leipzig >> Group: http://aksw.org - semantic web research center >> >> > -- Lorenz Bühmann AKSW group, University of Leipzig Group: http://aksw.org - semantic web research center
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
You might find this related discussion interesting: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/ontolog-forum/AUzkFVhGrok Regards, --Paul > On Feb 10, 2017, at 11:02, David Jordan wrote: > > I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us > have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient > justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value provided > that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more valuable > than simple support questions about a particular API interface. > > >> On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Andy Seaborne wrote: >> >> kumar, >> >> Have you done some investigation by searching on the web? >> >> You will find many articles, blogs and papers from a wide range of >> perspectives. >> >> Andy >> >> >>> On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: >>> >>> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used >>> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the >>> real advantages of semantic web. >>> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system >>> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of >>> the latter application? >>> >>>
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Regarding SQL SPARQL comparison, I wrote a page ( in french but translation possible via Google) http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://sourceforge.net/p/eulergui/code/HEAD/tree//trunk/eulergui/html/fr/comparaison-semweb-sql.html?format=raw Le 10 févr. 2017 7:12 PM, "David Jordan" a écrit : > I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us > have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient > justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value provided > that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more valuable > than simple support questions about a particular API interface. > > > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Andy Seaborne wrote: > > > kumar, > > > > Have you done some investigation by searching on the web? > > > > You will find many articles, blogs and papers from a wide range of > > perspectives. > > > > Andy > > > > > > On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: > > > >> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used > >> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the > >> real advantages of semantic web. > >> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same > system > >> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage > of > >> the latter application? > >> > >> >
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
My 2 cents: I've been working with semantic web technologies for the past 3 years. >From this experience, I can see 3 good candidates to justify using semantic web technologies, and each one is based on a different aspect of the semantic web: 1) Graphs - Semantic Web is essentially about graphs. The RDF framework and triplestores are designed to model and store graphs, and they (mostly RDF) are the fundamental technologies of the semantic web. Graphs are better and way more flexible to describe complex relationships among things. You can see the benefits even when not working with semantic web, like when using properties graphs. Here it's mostly related to the NoSQL nature of Semantic Web. 2) Interoperability - Semantic Web is also about sharing vocabularies, and this is a pretty nice 'feature' when it comes to system/softwares interoperability. Suppose consuming a service API. When your system receives data, it must know how to handle it. If the data structure is known, or if your system knows the vocabulary, it's much easier. A good example are the federated sparql queries. Depending on the vocabularies adopted, a single query can find data in different repositories. 3) Reasoning - Semantic Web is a small part of the IA world. Like with the other aspects, maybe there's still challenges, but tools like Jena already allows the use of reasoners. Maybe this is the most powerful and yet the most difficult candidate to assimilate. One could apply reasoning over it's own data or to combined / integrated data to discover new data, and the possibilities here are very wide. The downside, however, is the crucial aspect that semantic web (and the use of semantic web technologies) is much harder than the "traditional way", but, once I've took a summer course with researcher in the field of formal ontology who said something like: "Ontologies are difficult because the world is difficult". And this sums up the fact that, although it brings benefits, semantic web was conceived to solve very complex scenarios, like the one described by Tim Berners-Lee <https://www-sop.inria.fr/acacia/cours/essi2006/Scientific%20American_%20Feature%20Article_%20The%20Semantic%20Web_%20May%202001.pdf>. In a business world, if you don't imediatly see such complex scenario, it's really hard to adopt semantic web (that's what I've been seeing around). Most of this can be debated, but it's most about my opinions over my own (maybe short) experience. Rodrigo C. Antonialli == Rio Claro - SP - Brasil LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rcantonialli Contato: rcantonia...@gmail.com Skype: rc_antonialli On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 3:02 PM, David Jordan wrote: > I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us > have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations and > have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient > justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value provided > that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more valuable > than simple support questions about a particular API interface. > > > On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Andy Seaborne wrote: > > > kumar, > > > > Have you done some investigation by searching on the web? > > > > You will find many articles, blogs and papers from a wide range of > > perspectives. > > > > Andy > > > > > > On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: > > > >> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used > >> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the > >> real advantages of semantic web. > >> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same > system > >> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage > of > >> the latter application? > >> > >> >
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
I agree that have some discussion about this is very useful. Many of us have tried to evangelize semantic web technologies in our organizations and have struggled and failed because we cannot provide sufficient justification for using the technology. Hearing the specific value provided that can convince the skeptics is extremely valuable, much more valuable than simple support questions about a particular API interface. On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Andy Seaborne wrote: > kumar, > > Have you done some investigation by searching on the web? > > You will find many articles, blogs and papers from a wide range of > perspectives. > > Andy > > > On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: > >> Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used >> semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the >> real advantages of semantic web. >> When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system >> we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of >> the latter application? >> >>
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
kumar, Have you done some investigation by searching on the web? You will find many articles, blogs and papers from a wide range of perspectives. Andy On 10/02/17 12:22, kumar rohit wrote: Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the real advantages of semantic web. When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of the latter application?
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Lorenz, Why is this off topic? Seems to me a discussion of semantic web technologies and how to apply Jena to solve problems in that space is appropriate for this mailing list. Granted it is not a "How do I make Jena do 'X'" question but a discussion of why (and when) to use Jena is just as important and in my mind on topic as how. just my 2-cents. Claude On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 12:54 PM, Lorenz B. < buehm...@informatik.uni-leipzig.de> wrote: > Sorry, but this is totally off-topic for this mailing list! > > > Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used > > semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the > > real advantages of semantic web. > > When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system > > we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage > of > > the latter application? > > > -- > Lorenz Bühmann > AKSW group, University of Leipzig > Group: http://aksw.org - semantic web research center > > -- I like: Like Like - The likeliest place on the web <http://like-like.xenei.com> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/claudewarren
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
Sorry, but this is totally off-topic for this mailing list! > Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used > semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the > real advantages of semantic web. > When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system > we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of > the latter application? > -- Lorenz Bühmann AKSW group, University of Leipzig Group: http://aksw.org - semantic web research center
Re: Benefits of Semantic web
I will give you my perspective after about 3 years of deploying semantic web technologies, but remember as in most things, your mileage may vary, The starting challenge we face is constraining vocabularies in transactional systems so that data can be integrated across systems. What we desire is to have the client systems issue a query and have the server return a list which typically is used for drop down menus in the transactionmal systems. At first blush this need can be addressed with simple vocabulary lists in perhaps a relational data base system. for small number of systems which have a similar view of the vocabulary and where the vocabulary has consistent behaviors, this would be a reasonable decision. However, if we have: - large number of systems - many of which are not controlled by a single organizaton - for complex vocabularies where the terms may have very different additional qualifiers or associated terms - where the client systems have need to access the vocabularies in many different ways we have then found the following challenges with relational database systems: o since the terms can have very different associated data, the relational database structure becomes sparse and inefficient: the triple store model is a much more effective data store approach o when the vocabulary is viewed differently by different systems, simple structured lists become challenging to represent the differing ways of understanding the vocabulary: a simplified model of the language space (an ontology) allows one to access the data in a much more flexible manner, particularly if the data structures are sparse. A semantic web approach is not without its challenges, perhaps the biggest being the shortage of staff knowledgeable in these aproaches who understand that this is a language model for use by computers, not by people. But we do have this in production over an increasing number of systems with reasonable success. On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 7:22 AM, kumar rohit wrote: > Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used > semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the > real advantages of semantic web. > When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system > we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of > the latter application? > -- 73, AB1PH Don Rolph
Benefits of Semantic web
Hi, what are the benefits of semantic web technologies? I have used semantic web technologies from one year but, in theory I am not sure the real advantages of semantic web. When we develop a system using traditional RDBMS and Java and same system we develop using Java/Jena Protege SPARQL etc, so what is the advantage of the latter application?
