Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[George N. White III]

On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 23:55, Tim via users 
wrote:

> On Thu, 2020-11-12 at 13:42 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > There's an Android app call Droidcam (non-free) which has a Linux
> > download. Might be worth checking out.
>
> I never got anywhere trying that out.  Dunno if it simply doesn't work,
> or secure boot made it impossible to load the module.
>

I was able to use droidcam with a MOK (machine-owner key).   See:
https://www.rodsbooks.com/efi-bootloaders/secureboot.html#initial_shim

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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Tim via users]

Tim (re droidcam):
>> I never got anywhere trying that out.  Dunno if it simply doesn't
>> work, or secure boot made it impossible to load the module.

Samuel Sieb:
> You would either have to disable secure boot

I tried that.

> or add the signing key to the system store.

I couldn't figure out how to do that.

In the end, I gave up.  And can't think of a reason to try again.

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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Samuel Sieb]

On 11/12/20 7:52 PM, Tim via users wrote:

On Thu, 2020-11-12 at 13:42 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

There's an Android app call Droidcam (non-free) which has a Linux
download. Might be worth checking out.


I never got anywhere trying that out.  Dunno if it simply doesn't work,
or secure boot made it impossible to load the module.


You would either have to disable secure boot or add the signing key to 
the system store.

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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Tim via users]

On Thu, 2020-11-12 at 13:42 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> There's an Android app call Droidcam (non-free) which has a Linux
> download. Might be worth checking out.

I never got anywhere trying that out.  Dunno if it simply doesn't work,
or secure boot made it impossible to load the module.
 
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2020-11-12 at 14:27 +0100, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> On 2020-11-12 13:42, George N. White III wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 07:58, Patrick O'Callaghan  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I've seen several articles about using your smartphone as a webcam.
> > Some of them even mention Linux.
> > 
> > 
> > I run Zoom on an old Nexus smartphone (no SIM).  The phone has a decent
> > camera and mike, and gives more flexibility for the location than my desktop
> > but has to be plugged in to the charger.
> But that is unfeasible if you have to share your screen or do a presentation.

OK. I haven't looked at it closely.

poc
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Thu, 2020-11-12 at 08:42 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 07:58, Patrick O'Callaghan 
> wrote:
> 
> > I've seen several articles about using your smartphone as a webcam.
> > Some of them even mention Linux.
> > 
> 
> I run Zoom on an old Nexus smartphone (no SIM).  The phone has a decent
> camera and mike, and gives more flexibility for the location than my
> desktop
> but has to be plugged in to the charger.
> 
> Using smartphones as webcams on Fedora requires building and installing
> a driver (which is why I have experience with MOK's for secure boot).  I
> got it
> working, but never bothered trying it with Zoom.

There's an Android app call Droidcam (non-free) which has a Linux
download. Might be worth checking out.

poc
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Roberto Ragusa]

On 2020-11-12 13:42, George N. White III wrote:

On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 07:58, Patrick O'Callaghan mailto:pocallag...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I've seen several articles about using your smartphone as a webcam.
Some of them even mention Linux.


I run Zoom on an old Nexus smartphone (no SIM).  The phone has a decent
camera and mike, and gives more flexibility for the location than my desktop
but has to be plugged in to the charger.

But that is unfeasible if you have to share your screen or do a presentation.

Best regards.

--
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[George N. White III]

On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 at 07:58, Patrick O'Callaghan 
wrote:

> I've seen several articles about using your smartphone as a webcam.
> Some of them even mention Linux.
>

I run Zoom on an old Nexus smartphone (no SIM).  The phone has a decent
camera and mike, and gives more flexibility for the location than my
desktop
but has to be plugged in to the charger.

Using smartphones as webcams on Fedora requires building and installing
a driver (which is why I have experience with MOK's for secure boot).  I
got it
working, but never bothered trying it with Zoom.

-- 
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 23:18 +0100, Roberto Ragusa wrote:
> On 2020-11-10 18:49, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > I occasionally participate in Zoom calls using my Android tablet, and
> > everything Just Works(tm). I'd like to do the same on my desktop with
> > Fedora, but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big issue
> > is always with the sound. I can hear the other people perfectly, and
> > the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy and nearly
> > impossible to understand. I've tried with and without headphones in
> > case it's a feedback issue (though not using the headphone mic). It
> > doesn't make any difference. Surely not all the webcam mics can be so
> > bad? How would anyone ever use them?
> Sound quality may be bad for many reasons. I see you have already done
> some investigation but let me list some trivial and not trivial hints:
> 
> - microphones are bad, especially laptop ones, often taking a lot of fan noise
> (a bit better if they are positioned on top of the screen, worse if they are
> near the keyboard)
> - check your sound level, it may be too low (noise) or too high and clipping
> (distorsion), use pavucontrol to see the vumeter; distorted voice is badly
> mangled by voice compression codecs
> - do not create feedback (use earphones), the software echo cancellation
> may mess everything up
> - if you use bluetooth, the earphone+mic mode (HSP/HFP) may sound quite
> bad, because of poor codecs (this may be related to "non free world"
> software choices, but it should affect playback more than recording)
> - if it happens on a specific software, it may be related to its codec choice
> 
> for some of these causes you can do tests by recording yourself and listening
> back.
> After a lot of experimentation I've bought a quite good external USB mic and
> of course my voice is a lot better than with the laptop (stereo!) mic.
> 
> Next (off) topic: how to send a good video.
> Webcams are generally very bad (mostly very noisy 720p).
> Smartphones have hugely better cameras (even on front), as soon as I'll
> find a bit of time I'm going to experiment on how to use an old
> smartphone as a webcam, there is a SmartCam kernel module
> that creates a v4l device that gets data from a phone.

Thanks. As I need something for a conference Right Now I've connected
two webcams. One has decent video, the other has not-terrible audio.
It's ridiculous but it works for the moment. When I have time I'll
explore other options.

I've seen several articles about using your smartphone as a webcam.
Some of them even mention Linux.

poc
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 10:17 -0600, SternData wrote:
> On 11/11/20 7:05 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Tue, 2020-11-10 at 13:20 -0800, Clifford Snow wrote:
> > > I'm running Fedora 32 with a cheap webcam with Zoom. I actually haven't
> > > tried the webcam speakers instead use a usb headset. Never had a problem.
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 11:48 AM SternData 
> > > 
> > > wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Zoom works great with my webcam and its dual mics.  Logitech C920,
> > > > around $100.
> > 
> > A headset might be the answer I'm looking for.
> > 
> > poc
> > ___
> 
> 
> Do you have bluetooth on your system? You could use whatever earbuds you 
> might have for your phone.  My airpods work well.

I have Cambridge Audio Melomania earbuds but could never get the mic to
work properly when I tried this a while back. It may be time to revisit
the idea.

poc
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Roberto Ragusa]

On 2020-11-10 18:49, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

I occasionally participate in Zoom calls using my Android tablet, and
everything Just Works(tm). I'd like to do the same on my desktop with
Fedora, but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big issue
is always with the sound. I can hear the other people perfectly, and
the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy and nearly
impossible to understand. I've tried with and without headphones in
case it's a feedback issue (though not using the headphone mic). It
doesn't make any difference. Surely not all the webcam mics can be so
bad? How would anyone ever use them?

Sound quality may be bad for many reasons. I see you have already done
some investigation but let me list some trivial and not trivial hints:

- microphones are bad, especially laptop ones, often taking a lot of fan noise
(a bit better if they are positioned on top of the screen, worse if they are
near the keyboard)
- check your sound level, it may be too low (noise) or too high and clipping
(distorsion), use pavucontrol to see the vumeter; distorted voice is badly
mangled by voice compression codecs
- do not create feedback (use earphones), the software echo cancellation
may mess everything up
- if you use bluetooth, the earphone+mic mode (HSP/HFP) may sound quite
bad, because of poor codecs (this may be related to "non free world"
software choices, but it should affect playback more than recording)
- if it happens on a specific software, it may be related to its codec choice

for some of these causes you can do tests by recording yourself and listening
back.
After a lot of experimentation I've bought a quite good external USB mic and
of course my voice is a lot better than with the laptop (stereo!) mic.

Next (off) topic: how to send a good video.
Webcams are generally very bad (mostly very noisy 720p).
Smartphones have hugely better cameras (even on front), as soon as I'll
find a bit of time I'm going to experiment on how to use an old
smartphone as a webcam, there is a SmartCam kernel module
that creates a v4l device that gets data from a phone.

Regards.

--
   Roberto Ragusamail at robertoragusa.it
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-11-11 12:33, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 11/11/20 11:44 AM, Tim via users wrote:

I'm in the same boat - tinnitus and can't hear anything above 15kHz,
beyond the squeal of the horizontal output stages of old CRT TV sets.


Me too, except that I have an artillery notch in my hearing caused by 
too much "outbound" on the Gun Line back in '72.  Slept in the forward 
berthing compartment, one deck down and about 40 feet back from the gun 
mount.  Woke up one morning to find out I'd slept through a forty round 
bombardment from the ship's 5"/54.  Around 2004 or so, I found out about 
the hearing loss and tinnitus; the notch isn't bad enough for 
compensation, just free hearing aids but the tinnitus is 10%, the 
highest allowed for that.


A quick and dirty hearing test:

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/


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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Joe Zeff]

On 11/11/20 11:44 AM, Tim via users wrote:

I'm in the same boat - tinnitus and can't hear anything above 15kHz,
beyond the squeal of the horizontal output stages of old CRT TV sets.


Me too, except that I have an artillery notch in my hearing caused by 
too much "outbound" on the Gun Line back in '72.  Slept in the forward 
berthing compartment, one deck down and about 40 feet back from the gun 
mount.  Woke up one morning to find out I'd slept through a forty round 
bombardment from the ship's 5"/54.  Around 2004 or so, I found out about 
the hearing loss and tinnitus; the notch isn't bad enough for 
compensation, just free hearing aids but the tinnitus is 10%, the 
highest allowed for that.

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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-11-11 10:44, Tim via users wrote:

On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 08:58 -0800, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

I have lost a lot of my high frequency hearing and
have tinnitus.  Consequently, I have trouble
understand folks on the phone when there is a lot
of white or other background noise.  Machine shops
are hell on me.  Crappy cell phone audio does not
help either.

I was thinking of using a dual ear headset on
my office phone.  Two headphones would help block
out background noise. And I have used single ear
Panasonic headset before and liked their audio
quality.  But I am not sure Panasonic has a
dual though.


I'm in the same boat - tinnitus and can't hear anything above 15kHz,
beyond the squeal of the horizontal output stages of old CRT TV sets.
Ironically, the top audio frequencies transmittable on analogue TV and
radio are the same (15kHz).  Even those without tinnitus usually have
some hearing loss of high frequencies with age, worse if they've worked
in noisy environments.

Headphones that cover both ears can significantly help in understanding
speech.  It helps with hearing problems, it helps block out background
racket, and both sides of the brain are used independently in
understanding speech with independent processing from each ear, so
hearing things with both ears really helps, too.  And using a
speakerphone can be useful for anyone who finds it easier to understand
speech when both ears can hear what's being said.

By the by, even before my hearing started to degrade, I always found it
easier to understand what people said through my left ear than my right
ear, when using a telephone that could only be heard in one ear at a
time.

Connecting headsets and headphones to telephones can be difficult, at
least with traditional landlines.  They often have no socket for it,
and require specific impedances, and types of microphones.  But when it
comes to mobile phones, it's easier.  Many gaming headsets can be used
directly (bluetooth or plugged in), and while some may be bass-boosted
for more gaming excitement, many of them are optimised for speech
clarity.  I found the Sennheiser GameOne headsets good for comms,
though they aren't cheap.

If you're lucky, you could have an office phone with a general purpose
headset connector.  Otherwise, you can unplug the handset, and plug it
into a buffer amplifier between the phone and a headset.

In my field, most comms headsets have a dynamic mike, and they
definitely need a buffer amplifier to be able to used with telephone
systems (which invariably use a DC powered electret condenser mike).

Getting yourself one of the expensive mobile phones can help a lot with
audio quality, but of course that won't help when the other side of the
call is using a lousy phone.  A friend bought one of the $100 Nokia
phones a couple of years back, and that had terrible sound.  Whenever
he rang me it was very hard to hear what he said, and it used sound
level muting to try and cut out background noise.  It only transmitted
loud audio, so if he spoke quietly, or moved too far away from the
mike, it was extremely muted.  I got really sick of continually telling
him to get closer to the phone throughout every phone call.
  




Mine cuts out at about 2500 hz in the left ear and 2200 hz
in the right.  At about 2100 Hz, the two ears hear
different pitches.

I have had a bit of help with the ringing with various things.
If you eMail me directly off line, I will give you my run down.
Got is down about 60%.  My hearing recovery though.  No one
wants to hear about vitamins on this list.





--
~~
Computers are like air conditioners.
They malfunction when you open windows
~~
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Tim via users]

On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 08:58 -0800, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:
> I have lost a lot of my high frequency hearing and
> have tinnitus.  Consequently, I have trouble
> understand folks on the phone when there is a lot
> of white or other background noise.  Machine shops
> are hell on me.  Crappy cell phone audio does not
> help either.
> 
> I was thinking of using a dual ear headset on
> my office phone.  Two headphones would help block
> out background noise. And I have used single ear
> Panasonic headset before and liked their audio
> quality.  But I am not sure Panasonic has a
> dual though.

I'm in the same boat - tinnitus and can't hear anything above 15kHz,
beyond the squeal of the horizontal output stages of old CRT TV sets.
Ironically, the top audio frequencies transmittable on analogue TV and
radio are the same (15kHz).  Even those without tinnitus usually have
some hearing loss of high frequencies with age, worse if they've worked
in noisy environments.

Headphones that cover both ears can significantly help in understanding
speech.  It helps with hearing problems, it helps block out background
racket, and both sides of the brain are used independently in
understanding speech with independent processing from each ear, so
hearing things with both ears really helps, too.  And using a
speakerphone can be useful for anyone who finds it easier to understand
speech when both ears can hear what's being said.

By the by, even before my hearing started to degrade, I always found it
easier to understand what people said through my left ear than my right
ear, when using a telephone that could only be heard in one ear at a
time.

Connecting headsets and headphones to telephones can be difficult, at
least with traditional landlines.  They often have no socket for it,
and require specific impedances, and types of microphones.  But when it
comes to mobile phones, it's easier.  Many gaming headsets can be used
directly (bluetooth or plugged in), and while some may be bass-boosted
for more gaming excitement, many of them are optimised for speech
clarity.  I found the Sennheiser GameOne headsets good for comms,
though they aren't cheap.

If you're lucky, you could have an office phone with a general purpose
headset connector.  Otherwise, you can unplug the handset, and plug it
into a buffer amplifier between the phone and a headset.

In my field, most comms headsets have a dynamic mike, and they
definitely need a buffer amplifier to be able to used with telephone
systems (which invariably use a DC powered electret condenser mike).

Getting yourself one of the expensive mobile phones can help a lot with
audio quality, but of course that won't help when the other side of the
call is using a lousy phone.  A friend bought one of the $100 Nokia
phones a couple of years back, and that had terrible sound.  Whenever
he rang me it was very hard to hear what he said, and it used sound
level muting to try and cut out background noise.  It only transmitted
loud audio, so if he spoke quietly, or moved too far away from the
mike, it was extremely muted.  I got really sick of continually telling
him to get closer to the phone throughout every phone call.
 
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Tim via users]

On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 13:09 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> What I don't really understand is how my cheap Lenovo tablet works
> acceptably well and my big Fedora desktop doesn't. I'm sure the
> camera and mic in the tablet can't be especially high quality.

Luck of the draw, perhaps.  Some mobile phones have surprisingly good
microphones (usually the expensive ones).  I had one with good noise
reduction systems using two microphones in combination, and handled
loud environments quite well, too.  They're probably used in tablets,
too.
 
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-11-10 20:25, Tim via users wrote:

As someone who works in video production,




Hi Tim,

Off list:

I have lost a lot of my high frequency hearing and
have tinnitus.  Consequently, I have trouble
understand folks on the phone when there is a lot
of white or other background noise.  Machine shops
are hell on me.  Crappy cell phone audio does not
help either.

I was thinking of using a dual ear headset on
my office phone.  Two headphones would help block
out background noise. And I have used single ear
Panasonic headset before and liked their audio
quality.  But I am not sure Panasonic has a
dual though.

Do you have a better idea?  Know a good model?

Many thanks,
-T
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[SternData]

On 11/11/20 7:05 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

On Tue, 2020-11-10 at 13:20 -0800, Clifford Snow wrote:

I'm running Fedora 32 with a cheap webcam with Zoom. I actually haven't
tried the webcam speakers instead use a usb headset. Never had a problem.

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 11:48 AM SternData 
wrote:


Zoom works great with my webcam and its dual mics.  Logitech C920,
around $100.


A headset might be the answer I'm looking for.

poc
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Do you have bluetooth on your system? You could use whatever earbuds you 
might have for your phone.  My airpods work well.

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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 14:55 +1030, Tim via users wrote:
> As a general rule, it's next to impossible to filter bad audio to make
> it good.  There are some things can be done to sweeten audio that's not
> so great (such as reducing the bass when you're in a boomy room), but
> that's only polishing the edges of things, not fixing the impossible.
>  

Thanks for insights Tim. I take that all on board. What I don't really
understand is how my cheap Lenovo tablet works acceptably well and my
big Fedora desktop doesn't. I'm sure the camera and mic in the tablet
can't be especially high quality.

poc
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2020-11-10 at 15:09 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> On 11/10/20 9:49 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > I occasionally participate in Zoom calls using my Android tablet, and
> > everything Just Works(tm). I'd like to do the same on my desktop with
> > Fedora, but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big issue
> > is always with the sound. I can hear the other people perfectly, and
> > the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy and nearly
> > impossible to understand. I've tried with and without headphones in
> > case it's a feedback issue (though not using the headphone mic). It
> > doesn't make any difference. Surely not all the webcam mics can be so
> > bad? How would anyone ever use them?
> 
> I've use Zoom and Teams on my Fedora laptop.  Using the builtin webcam 
> and laptop microphone, I haven't had any complaints about the audio. 
> More recently, I've been using a headset and that's been fine too.  I 
> would definitely recommend a headset over the webcam mic.  I didn't 
> realize that external webcams generally even had microphones.
> 
> A good test would be to use audacity to record some audio and then you 
> can see for yourself what it sounds like.

Already did that (using Cheese and Zoom).

poc
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2020-11-10 at 13:20 -0800, Clifford Snow wrote:
> I'm running Fedora 32 with a cheap webcam with Zoom. I actually haven't
> tried the webcam speakers instead use a usb headset. Never had a problem.
> 
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 11:48 AM SternData 
> wrote:
> 
> > Zoom works great with my webcam and its dual mics.  Logitech C920,
> > around $100.

A headset might be the answer I'm looking for.

poc
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Tue, 2020-11-10 at 12:55 -0600, Richard Shaw wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 11:49 AM Patrick O'Callaghan 
> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Is there some Pulse filter I can use to improve the audio quality? What
> > are people doing in this situation?
> > 
> 
> It's not cheap, but I have the older 410 USB only version of this and get
> nothing but good reports on audio in Windows or Linux.
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00AQUO5RI/ref=twister_B08KZ5LYQG


Thanks. I wasn't intending to spend so much. This is only for casual
use. I just want something that works acceptably.

poc
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Patrick O'Callaghan]

On Wed, 2020-11-11 at 02:17 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> On 11/11/2020 01:49, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > I occasionally participate in Zoom calls using my Android tablet, and
> > everything Just Works(tm). I'd like to do the same on my desktop with
> > Fedora, but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big issue
> > is always with the sound. I can hear the other people perfectly, and
> > the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy and nearly
> > impossible to understand. I've tried with and without headphones in
> > case it's a feedback issue (though not using the headphone mic). It
> > doesn't make any difference. Surely not all the webcam mics can be so
> > bad? How would anyone ever use them?
> > 
> > Is there some Pulse filter I can use to improve the audio quality? What
> > are people doing in this situation?
> 
> I do not use zoom and I don't have a webcam.  But in the past I have used 
> skype on
> Linux with a Logitech Bluetooth headset and the audio in both directions was 
> crystal
> clear.
> 
> You've recorded audio with another program?  How did it sound?
> 
> Have you tried remote audio with something like skype?

I've done test recordings with Zoom and with Cheese. They both sound
terrible.

poc
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Tim via users]

On Tue, 2020-11-10 at 17:49 +, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big
> issue is always with the sound. I can hear the other people
> perfectly, and the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy
> and nearly impossible to understand.

Yes, it's quite possible that all the webcams have terrible
microphones, audio circuitry, and audio encoding.  Even expensive
webcams.  And the audio and data compression used for comms tends to
need good audio to not turn it into an awful mess.

They're miniaturised, the microphone has a tiny air hole, and they tend
to be omnidirectional (no matter how they describe themselves).  To be
directional, you need more than one air inlet, and/or more than one
mike element.

The ones that say they have some kind of noise cancelling rarely ever
do have a noise-cancelling mike (one that puts room ambience in anti-
phase with the mike facing you), they usually just use a terrible
software-based signal level threshold mute (muting the mike when the
level drops somewhat).

Generally, to get good sound, especially with party-line chats, you
want a decent mike right next to your mouth.  That can be a gooseneck
mike, headset, or a clip-on mike.

As someone who works in video production, and has designed intercom
systems to suit our needs (because the others did not), if you don't
want to wear headsets (mike and headphone combinations), the better
option (for audio quality and convenience) has been a desk mike on a
long gooseneck, and a small loudspeaker that's a further away than most
people would expect (to minimise feedback or echoes).  You're not tied
to cables, that way.

> Is there some Pulse filter I can use to improve the audio quality? 

As a general rule, it's next to impossible to filter bad audio to make
it good.  There are some things can be done to sweeten audio that's not
so great (such as reducing the bass when you're in a boomy room), but
that's only polishing the edges of things, not fixing the impossible.
 
-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1127.19.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Aug 25 17:23:54 UTC 2020 x86_64
 
Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Mike Flannigan]

Just 4 weeks ago I bought an Aluratek 4K HD webcam for
$130, so not a cheap one.  The sound is the weakest point,
but very satisfactory.  Here is a 10 MB test file if you
want to see an example:
http://www.mflan.com/temp/webcam_test.mkv

I am very happy with this device.

Of course a dedicated, high quality microphone would be
much better.


Mike


On 11/10/20 12:56 PM, users-requ...@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:

I occasionally participate in Zoom calls using my Android tablet, and
everything Just Works(tm). I'd like to do the same on my desktop with
Fedora, but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big issue
is always with the sound. I can hear the other people perfectly, and
the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy and nearly
impossible to understand. I've tried with and without headphones in
case it's a feedback issue (though not using the headphone mic). It
doesn't make any difference. Surely not all the webcam mics can be so
bad? How would anyone ever use them?

Is there some Pulse filter I can use to improve the audio quality? What
are people doing in this situation?

poc


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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Samuel Sieb]

On 11/10/20 9:49 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

I occasionally participate in Zoom calls using my Android tablet, and
everything Just Works(tm). I'd like to do the same on my desktop with
Fedora, but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big issue
is always with the sound. I can hear the other people perfectly, and
the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy and nearly
impossible to understand. I've tried with and without headphones in
case it's a feedback issue (though not using the headphone mic). It
doesn't make any difference. Surely not all the webcam mics can be so
bad? How would anyone ever use them?


I've use Zoom and Teams on my Fedora laptop.  Using the builtin webcam 
and laptop microphone, I haven't had any complaints about the audio. 
More recently, I've been using a headset and that's been fine too.  I 
would definitely recommend a headset over the webcam mic.  I didn't 
realize that external webcams generally even had microphones.


A good test would be to use audacity to record some audio and then you 
can see for yourself what it sounds like.

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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Clifford Snow]

I'm running Fedora 32 with a cheap webcam with Zoom. I actually haven't
tried the webcam speakers instead use a usb headset. Never had a problem.

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 11:48 AM SternData 
wrote:

> Zoom works great with my webcam and its dual mics.  Logitech C920,
> around $100.
>
>
>
> On 11/10/20 11:49 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > I occasionally participate in Zoom calls using my Android tablet, and
> > everything Just Works(tm). I'd like to do the same on my desktop with
> > Fedora, but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big issue
> > is always with the sound. I can hear the other people perfectly, and
> > the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy and nearly
> > impossible to understand. I've tried with and without headphones in
> > case it's a feedback issue (though not using the headphone mic). It
> > doesn't make any difference. Surely not all the webcam mics can be so
> > bad? How would anyone ever use them?
> >
> > Is there some Pulse filter I can use to improve the audio quality? What
> > are people doing in this situation?
> >
> > poc
> > ___
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[SternData]

Zoom works great with my webcam and its dual mics.  Logitech C920, 
around $100.




On 11/10/20 11:49 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

I occasionally participate in Zoom calls using my Android tablet, and
everything Just Works(tm). I'd like to do the same on my desktop with
Fedora, but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big issue
is always with the sound. I can hear the other people perfectly, and
the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy and nearly
impossible to understand. I've tried with and without headphones in
case it's a feedback issue (though not using the headphone mic). It
doesn't make any difference. Surely not all the webcam mics can be so
bad? How would anyone ever use them?

Is there some Pulse filter I can use to improve the audio quality? What
are people doing in this situation?

poc
___

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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Richard Shaw]

On Tue, Nov 10, 2020 at 11:49 AM Patrick O'Callaghan 
wrote:

>
> Is there some Pulse filter I can use to improve the audio quality? What
> are people doing in this situation?
>

It's not cheap, but I have the older 410 USB only version of this and get
nothing but good reports on audio in Windows or Linux.

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00AQUO5RI/ref=twister_B08KZ5LYQG

Thanks,
Richard
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[PGNet Dev]

Is there some Pulse filter I can use to improve the audio quality? What
are people doing in this situation?


simply 'my' consistent experience(s), with absolutely *specific* "why" yet ...

Zoom (free/commercial) used with my 'fully loaded' f32+KDE desktop, Firefox + 
extensions/protections, etc etc -- video works, any/all audio is spotty.

Google Meet, video's ok -- audio is completely a non-starter.  I mute the 
audio, and do a direct Cell call -- completely avoiding Google.

Jitsi, as much as I'd prefer to be using it, simply can't get both ends of 
audio/video working at the same time.  That's with peer-to-peer, not with/thru 
my own servers.

I gave up trying to have any chats @ upstream/otherwise re: "it don't work" ... just gets lost in 
the usual "works for me", "must be your setup", etc etc uselessness.

All that^ said ... the 'stable', preferred solution here is to create a 
VirtualBox instance of minimal -- NOT workstation/desktop -- f32, build it up 
to a *nominal* install of XFCE + Firefox -- with minimal extensions.

THAT setup works with Zoom (free/commercial) with any/every mic+cam combo I've 
tried.  Each & every time.  Every once in awhile get a video freeze, but 
suspect that's network ...

Google meet works better too, but during calls will randomly degrade video &/or 
audio into an unintelligible mess.
Jitsi still refuses to work with Firefox.  And I refuse to use Chrome.

YMMV.
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Re: Recommendations for video-conferencing setup

[Ed Greshko]

On 11/11/2020 01:49, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

I occasionally participate in Zoom calls using my Android tablet, and
everything Just Works(tm). I'd like to do the same on my desktop with
Fedora, but despite testing three different cheap webcams the big issue
is always with the sound. I can hear the other people perfectly, and
the video is fine, but the audio from my side is muddy and nearly
impossible to understand. I've tried with and without headphones in
case it's a feedback issue (though not using the headphone mic). It
doesn't make any difference. Surely not all the webcam mics can be so
bad? How would anyone ever use them?

Is there some Pulse filter I can use to improve the audio quality? What
are people doing in this situation?


I do not use zoom and I don't have a webcam.  But in the past I have used skype 
on
Linux with a Logitech Bluetooth headset and the audio in both directions was 
crystal
clear.

You've recorded audio with another program?  How did it sound?

Have you tried remote audio with something like skype?

---
The key to getting good answers is to ask good questions.

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