Re: OT: What the hell is "catch-22" [was Re: howto: request committer status]
That was the title of a famous book by Joseph Heller. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684833395/002-0109254-6032057?v=glance Alex On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 08:50, John Casey wrote: > :) sorry. > > Catch-22 is when no possible action can have a good result...sort of > "damned if you do, damned if you don't" to use another cliche. > > HTH, > john > > On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 08:36, Martin Skopp wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 23:27, John Casey wrote: > > > Catch-22 alleviated. > > > > Could please someone explain a non-native speaker like me that > > mysterious "catch-22" term. Thanks folks, - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: What the hell is "catch-22" [was Re: howto: request committer status]
Lovely, it's one of my favorite books ... :-) -Original Message- From: Peter Bright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Donnerstag, 01. Juli 2004 14:49 To: 'Maven Users List' Subject: RE: What the hell is "catch-22" [was Re: howto: request committer status] It's a literary reference to Joseph Heller's frankly fantastic book, "Catch-22", first published in 1961. It tells the story of an air force pilot, Yossarian, who would rather not be a pilot because he doesn't want to die. The ways of avoiding flying are limited; one way to avoid service is to be crazy. Anyone willing to fly more missions would be crazy, so all a pilot would have to do to avoid flying more missions would have to tell the doctor that they're crazy. But doing that demonstrates that they have concern for their own safety, and if you have concern for your own safety, you can't be crazy. If you flew then you were crazy and didn't have to; but if you didn't want to you were sane and had to. That's Catch-22. It's the best catch there is. > -Original Message- > From: Martin Skopp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 01 July 2004 13:36 > To: Maven Users List > Subject: OT: What the hell is "catch-22" [was Re: howto: request > committer status] > > > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 23:27, John Casey wrote: > > Catch-22 alleviated. > > Could please someone explain a non-native speaker like me that > mysterious "catch-22" term. Thanks folks, > -- > Martin Skopp > Riege Software International GmbH > Support: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Information: http://www.riege.com > > This email is intended to be viewed with a nonproportional font. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: What the hell is "catch-22" [was Re: howto: request committer status]
It's a literary reference to Joseph Heller's frankly fantastic book, "Catch-22", first published in 1961. It tells the story of an air force pilot, Yossarian, who would rather not be a pilot because he doesn't want to die. The ways of avoiding flying are limited; one way to avoid service is to be crazy. Anyone willing to fly more missions would be crazy, so all a pilot would have to do to avoid flying more missions would have to tell the doctor that they're crazy. But doing that demonstrates that they have concern for their own safety, and if you have concern for your own safety, you can't be crazy. If you flew then you were crazy and didn't have to; but if you didn't want to you were sane and had to. That's Catch-22. It's the best catch there is. > -Original Message- > From: Martin Skopp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 01 July 2004 13:36 > To: Maven Users List > Subject: OT: What the hell is "catch-22" [was Re: howto: request > committer status] > > > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 23:27, John Casey wrote: > > Catch-22 alleviated. > > Could please someone explain a non-native speaker like me that > mysterious "catch-22" term. Thanks folks, > -- > Martin Skopp > Riege Software International GmbH > Support: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Information: http://www.riege.com > > This email is intended to be viewed with a nonproportional font. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: OT: What the hell is "catch-22" [was Re: howto: request committer status]
:) sorry. Catch-22 is when no possible action can have a good result...sort of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" to use another cliche. HTH, john On Thu, 2004-07-01 at 08:36, Martin Skopp wrote: > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 23:27, John Casey wrote: > > Catch-22 alleviated. > > Could please someone explain a non-native speaker like me that > mysterious "catch-22" term. Thanks folks, -- John Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] CommonJava Open Components Project http://www.commonjava.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
OT: What the hell is "catch-22" [was Re: howto: request committer status]
On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 23:27, John Casey wrote: > Catch-22 alleviated. Could please someone explain a non-native speaker like me that mysterious "catch-22" term. Thanks folks, -- Martin Skopp Riege Software International GmbH Support: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], Information: http://www.riege.com This email is intended to be viewed with a nonproportional font. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sorry for the confusion Was: howto: request committer status
On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:18:04 -0400, Brill Pappin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [snip] > Am I talking out my rear here or does anyone at all understand what I'm > talking about? Brill, since the war plugin already compiles java code (indirectly by running the tests), it would seem a reasonable alternative to either allow the compiled code to be placed in WEB-INF/classes (as it is at the moment), or jar'ed up and placed in WEB-INF/lib as if it was an ordinary jar. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sorry for the confusion Was: howto: request committer status
No, sorry Brett for the confusion, there is no patch and I wasn't trying to "get anything through" at least not yet... it was nothing you did. The thread is born out of pure frustration on my part for trying to not have the RFE dismissed out of hand because someone can't be bothered to RTFM. What I was asking for was a simple property switch so that when a war was built, I could have the project classes bundled into a jar and added to the WEB-INF/lib dir instead of unpacked in the WEB-INF/classes dir. I'm doing this because I'm using the package versioning spec, see: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/guide/versioning/index.html Now, this thread has grown because I keep getting some kind of garbage about war files and the servlet spec, witch has nothing to do with what I'm talking about and from my perspective the antagonist in question can't be bother to understand how 1) a servlet container works. 2) how the package versioning spec. works. Now, I appear to not be eloquent enough for some people around here. Maybe this can all be put to rest if someone can explain the difference between a war and a jar and that the servlet spec and the versioning spec. have little to do with one another. Am I talking out my rear here or does anyone at all understand what I'm talking about? - Brill Pappin Brett Porter wrote: No idea what patch, but it was probably me that rejected it. Sorry if it caused an offence, but I always try to give a reason that something is not suitable. If I didn't, or you don't think it's correct, you're welcome to continue to debate it in the relevant JIRA issue, or take it up on the -dev list if you want the opinion of other committers. The user list is the wrong place for this discussion. Let's keep it to the user's questions. But if after all that the -dev list has also not supported the patch or there have been no additional response, you might have to accept that we've been doing this longer and probably know better :) It's not a unique situation - even when I commit stuff I get rebuked for it sometimes because other developers don't agree - and when they've been doing it longer than I have I accept that they probably know better :) Cheers, Brett - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: howto: request committer status
> I think you're the first person who has ever asked for commit status, so > the answer is you don't request committer status, it will be offered > when someone feels you've earned it. I think you and the others were a little hard on him. I got the impression that he doesn't know how it works and that he thought he needed committer status just to read the code. He did not ask for it as you claim in the quote above. he asked how to get it and that means he wants to know how the process works. I think the correct answer is "you contribute to the project with patches and if you become a major contributer you might be offered commit status". -- This E-mail is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or use any part of it. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and all copies from your system and notify the sender immediately by return E-mail. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be timely, secure, error or virus-free. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: howto: request committer status
Hello Jason, I appreciate the work you and several of your compatriots have done. From my perspective it's moving in the right direction and I've seen you around in several places for several years (I think your the same person anyway). I do know the etiquette for the apache group, though I don't subscribe to it for projects I have originated. I was trying to make the point that I was losing faith in the experience and competence of some developers who do have commit status, essentially saying "if someone with the the responsibility wont take responsibility, then let me take it". - Brill Pappin Jason van Zyl wrote: On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 16:43, Brill Pappin wrote: How do I go about requesting commit status for this project? It is bad etiquette to request committer status in OSS projects and generally looked dimly upon. The normal course of action is you contribute for a period of time and one of the existing committers will nominate you for commit status. The last two core committers inducted were John and Trygve. These only happened recently and John has been contributing pretty much from the very start, he has contributed a great deal wrt user help and code. Trygve has also contributed for some time, understands maven2 from top-to-bottom, and contributed large chunks of non-trivial code for maven2. I think you're the first person who has ever asked for commit status, so the answer is you don't request committer status, it will be offered when someone feels you've earned it. -- "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology." - Arthur C Anticlarke - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: howto: request committer status
Sounds like you just need read only access, you don't need commit for that. Commit is to commit changes to CVS. People usually start out by submitting patches. But if you're just doing a review, read only will work. Everyone has read only, see the project info page of the maven website. > -Message d'origine- > De : Brill Pappin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Envoye : mardi 29 juin 2004 22:43 > A : Maven Users List > Objet : howto: request committer status > > > How do I go about requesting commit status for this project? > I would like to be able to research ideas that users have, in order to > make the tool better and give each idea a fair review. > > Thanks for the attention, > - Brill Pappin > > -- This E-mail is confidential. It may also be legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you may not copy, forward, disclose or use any part of it. If you have received this message in error, please delete it and all copies from your system and notify the sender immediately by return E-mail. Internet communications cannot be guaranteed to be timely, secure, error or virus-free. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: howto: request committer status
Brett, AFAIK this is still purely hypothetical. Not to worry. -j On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 19:14, Brett Porter wrote: > No idea what patch, but it was probably me that rejected it. Sorry if > it caused an offence, but I always try to give a reason that something > is not suitable. If I didn't, or you don't think it's correct, you're > welcome to continue to debate it in the relevant JIRA issue, or take > it up on the -dev list if you want the opinion of other committers. > > The user list is the wrong place for this discussion. Let's keep it to > the user's questions. > > But if after all that the -dev list has also not supported the patch > or there have been no additional response, you might have to accept > that we've been doing this longer and probably know better :) > > It's not a unique situation - even when I commit stuff I get rebuked > for it sometimes because other developers don't agree - and when > they've been doing it longer than I have I accept that they probably > know better :) > > Cheers, > Brett > > On 29 Jun 2004 18:48:30 -0400, Jason van Zyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 18:16, Craig S. Cottingham wrote: > > > On Jun 29, 2004, at 17:10, Jason van Zyl wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 16:43, Brill Pappin wrote: > > > >> How do I go about requesting commit status for this project? > > > > > > > > It is bad etiquette to request committer status in OSS projects and > > > > generally looked dimly upon. The normal course of action is you > > > > contribute for a period of time and one of the existing committers will > > > > nominate you for commit status. > > > > > > Sounds like a catch-22. > > > > It's not a catch-22, ask John and Trygve how many patches I rejected > > and yet they still became committers. > > > > > IIRC, Brill has been told that even if he > > > produces a patch to do what he wants, it won't be applied. > > > > Happens all time. We are not obliged to commit every patch floated our > > way. I don't know what patch you're talking about specifically but lots > > of patches aren't accepted. I would venture to say most of them are not. > > > > The onus is on the submitter of a patch to convince the folks > > maintaining the code in question to accept it. If the maintainers don't > > like it, it's not accepted. It's pretty simple. Debate is reserved for > > committers and to become a committer you have to find existing > > committers you work well with. Simple case in point is Carlos who worked > > with Vincent on the AspectJ plugin and now is the lead on that plugin. > > Another case in point is Arnaud who contributed so much to the PDF > > plugin that he now takes care of that. These are the models to follow if > > you wish to be a committer. > > > > > -- > > > Craig S. Cottingham > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > OpenPGP key available from: > > > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C > > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > -- > > jvz. > > > > Jason van Zyl > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://maven.apache.org > > > > happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will > > elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come > > and sit softly on your shoulder ... > > > > -- Thoreau > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- John Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] CommonJava Open Components Project http://www.commonjava.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: howto: request committer status
Without getting into the merits of his patch, it's a little bit ridiculous to expect to gain committer status immediately and with no effort on the project. If he can't get the patch through, then he still has the option to fork the war plugin. Catch-22 alleviated. -john On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 18:16, Craig S.Cottingham wrote: > On Jun 29, 2004, at 17:10, Jason van Zyl wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 16:43, Brill Pappin wrote: > >> How do I go about requesting commit status for this project? > > > > It is bad etiquette to request committer status in OSS projects and > > generally looked dimly upon. The normal course of action is you > > contribute for a period of time and one of the existing committers will > > nominate you for commit status. > > Sounds like a catch-22. IIRC, Brill has been told that even if he > produces a patch to do what he wants, it won't be applied. > > -- > Craig S. Cottingham > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > OpenPGP key available from: > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- John Casey [EMAIL PROTECTED] CommonJava Open Components Project http://www.commonjava.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: howto: request committer status
No idea what patch, but it was probably me that rejected it. Sorry if it caused an offence, but I always try to give a reason that something is not suitable. If I didn't, or you don't think it's correct, you're welcome to continue to debate it in the relevant JIRA issue, or take it up on the -dev list if you want the opinion of other committers. The user list is the wrong place for this discussion. Let's keep it to the user's questions. But if after all that the -dev list has also not supported the patch or there have been no additional response, you might have to accept that we've been doing this longer and probably know better :) It's not a unique situation - even when I commit stuff I get rebuked for it sometimes because other developers don't agree - and when they've been doing it longer than I have I accept that they probably know better :) Cheers, Brett On 29 Jun 2004 18:48:30 -0400, Jason van Zyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 18:16, Craig S. Cottingham wrote: > > On Jun 29, 2004, at 17:10, Jason van Zyl wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 16:43, Brill Pappin wrote: > > >> How do I go about requesting commit status for this project? > > > > > > It is bad etiquette to request committer status in OSS projects and > > > generally looked dimly upon. The normal course of action is you > > > contribute for a period of time and one of the existing committers will > > > nominate you for commit status. > > > > Sounds like a catch-22. > > It's not a catch-22, ask John and Trygve how many patches I rejected > and yet they still became committers. > > > IIRC, Brill has been told that even if he > > produces a patch to do what he wants, it won't be applied. > > Happens all time. We are not obliged to commit every patch floated our > way. I don't know what patch you're talking about specifically but lots > of patches aren't accepted. I would venture to say most of them are not. > > The onus is on the submitter of a patch to convince the folks > maintaining the code in question to accept it. If the maintainers don't > like it, it's not accepted. It's pretty simple. Debate is reserved for > committers and to become a committer you have to find existing > committers you work well with. Simple case in point is Carlos who worked > with Vincent on the AspectJ plugin and now is the lead on that plugin. > Another case in point is Arnaud who contributed so much to the PDF > plugin that he now takes care of that. These are the models to follow if > you wish to be a committer. > > > -- > > Craig S. Cottingham > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > OpenPGP key available from: > > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > -- > jvz. > > Jason van Zyl > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://maven.apache.org > > happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will > elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come > and sit softly on your shoulder ... > > -- Thoreau > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: howto: request committer status
On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 18:16, Craig S. Cottingham wrote: > On Jun 29, 2004, at 17:10, Jason van Zyl wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 16:43, Brill Pappin wrote: > >> How do I go about requesting commit status for this project? > > > > It is bad etiquette to request committer status in OSS projects and > > generally looked dimly upon. The normal course of action is you > > contribute for a period of time and one of the existing committers will > > nominate you for commit status. > > Sounds like a catch-22. It's not a catch-22, ask John and Trygve how many patches I rejected and yet they still became committers. > IIRC, Brill has been told that even if he > produces a patch to do what he wants, it won't be applied. Happens all time. We are not obliged to commit every patch floated our way. I don't know what patch you're talking about specifically but lots of patches aren't accepted. I would venture to say most of them are not. The onus is on the submitter of a patch to convince the folks maintaining the code in question to accept it. If the maintainers don't like it, it's not accepted. It's pretty simple. Debate is reserved for committers and to become a committer you have to find existing committers you work well with. Simple case in point is Carlos who worked with Vincent on the AspectJ plugin and now is the lead on that plugin. Another case in point is Arnaud who contributed so much to the PDF plugin that he now takes care of that. These are the models to follow if you wish to be a committer. > -- > Craig S. Cottingham > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > OpenPGP key available from: > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maven.apache.org happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder ... -- Thoreau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: howto: request committer status
On Jun 29, 2004, at 17:10, Jason van Zyl wrote: On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 16:43, Brill Pappin wrote: How do I go about requesting commit status for this project? It is bad etiquette to request committer status in OSS projects and generally looked dimly upon. The normal course of action is you contribute for a period of time and one of the existing committers will nominate you for commit status. Sounds like a catch-22. IIRC, Brill has been told that even if he produces a patch to do what he wants, it won't be applied. -- Craig S. Cottingham [EMAIL PROTECTED] OpenPGP key available from: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x7977F79C - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: howto: request committer status
On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 16:43, Brill Pappin wrote: > How do I go about requesting commit status for this project? It is bad etiquette to request committer status in OSS projects and generally looked dimly upon. The normal course of action is you contribute for a period of time and one of the existing committers will nominate you for commit status. The last two core committers inducted were John and Trygve. These only happened recently and John has been contributing pretty much from the very start, he has contributed a great deal wrt user help and code. Trygve has also contributed for some time, understands maven2 from top-to-bottom, and contributed large chunks of non-trivial code for maven2. I think you're the first person who has ever asked for commit status, so the answer is you don't request committer status, it will be offered when someone feels you've earned it. -- jvz. Jason van Zyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://maven.apache.org happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it will elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will come and sit softly on your shoulder ... -- Thoreau - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
howto: request committer status
How do I go about requesting commit status for this project? I would like to be able to research ideas that users have, in order to make the tool better and give each idea a fair review. Thanks for the attention, - Brill Pappin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
