[users] Microsoft and ODF

[rob clement]

I am posting here, rather than discuss as the original posts about Microsoft
and ODF have been posted here.

Question

Is Microsoft's new "support"of ODF 1.1 an attempt to cause problems for
OpenOffice 3.0 in September as that will support ODF 1.2?

Conspiracy theory it maybe or simply at attempt to slow down the take-up of
OOo 3.0?

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Thanks

Rob

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www.silkroadconsultants.com
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www.ghostwritersinternational.com

Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[Jason Cipriani]

On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:22 PM, rob clement <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is Microsoft's new "support"of ODF 1.1 an attempt to cause problems for
> OpenOffice 3.0 in September as that will support ODF 1.2?
>
> Conspiracy theory it maybe or simply at attempt to slow down the take-up of
> OOo 3.0?

In my little circle it's the other way around. The longer MSOffice
goes without supporting ODF, the longer I can tell people "here is an
ODF document, you'll have to go grab OpenOffice to edit it, it's
really easy to set up"... I think they're just realizing "hey --
OpenOffice -and- GoogleDocs both support this, *maybe* it's time to
get up to speed here". I can't imagine any harm that could come to
anything except MSOffice if they didn't start supporting ODF like
everybody else so... that doesn't really seem like the makings of any
conspiracy theory to me!

Jason

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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[mike scott]

On 21 May 2008 at 22:32, Jason Cipriani wrote:

> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:22 PM, rob clement <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is Microsoft's new "support"of ODF 1.1 an attempt to cause problems for
> > OpenOffice 3.0 in September as that will support ODF 1.2?
> >
> > Conspiracy theory it maybe or simply at attempt to slow down the take-up of
> > OOo 3.0?
> 
> In my little circle it's the other way around. The longer MSOffice
> goes without supporting ODF, the longer I can tell people "here is an
> ODF document, you'll have to go grab OpenOffice to edit it, it's
> really easy to set up"... I think they're just realizing "hey --
> OpenOffice -and- GoogleDocs both support this, *maybe* it's time to
> get up to speed here". I can't imagine any harm that could come to

Unless their version starts acquiring incompatible extensions.

Isn't this what happened with java? (Or maybe I remember wrongly.)

> anything except MSOffice if they didn't start supporting ODF like
> everybody else so... that doesn't really seem like the makings of any
> conspiracy theory to me!
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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[Michael Adams]

On Thu, 22 May 2008 08:20:02 +0100
mike scott wrote:

> 
> Unless their version starts acquiring incompatible extensions.
> 
> Isn't this what happened with java? (Or maybe I remember wrongly.)
> 

Are you thinking JScript, Microsofts answer to Netscapes Javascript?

-- 
Michael

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be well

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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[Drew Jensen]

Michael Adams wrote:

On Thu, 22 May 2008 08:20:02 +0100
mike scott wrote:

  

Unless their version starts acquiring incompatible extensions.

Isn't this what happened with java? (Or maybe I remember wrongly.)




Are you thinking JScript, Microsofts answer to Netscapes Javascript?

  

I think he is referring to -

Microsoft started made some changes to to the java language's 
implementation for Windows platforms

 primarily to address performance issues as I recall

SUN threatened to sue

They stopped.

The outcome of that little exchange between the two companies was the 
birth of a totally new language - C#


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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[mike scott]

On 22 May 2008 at 3:39, Drew Jensen wrote:

> Michael Adams wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 May 2008 08:20:02 +0100
> > mike scott wrote:
> >
> >   
> >> Unless their version starts acquiring incompatible extensions.
> >>
> >> Isn't this what happened with java? (Or maybe I remember wrongly.)
> >>
> >> 
> >
> > Are you thinking JScript, Microsofts answer to Netscapes Javascript?
> >
> >   
> I think he is referring to -
> 
> Microsoft started made some changes to to the java language's 
> implementation for Windows platforms
>  primarily to address performance issues as I recall
> 
> SUN threatened to sue
> 
> They stopped.
> 
> The outcome of that little exchange between the two companies was the 
> birth of a totally new language - C#

That's probably it. Although my rather vague recollection is that 
there were some compatibility issues which went against Sun's 
licensing conditions.

It just seemed that MS, after taking ODF on board, would be in an ace 
position to wreck its compatibility across systems, blame others, 
then push their own as the One True Standard. Maybe I'm just too 
cynical :-)

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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[James Knott]

rob clement wrote:

I am posting here, rather than discuss as the original posts about Microsoft
and ODF have been posted here.

Question

Is Microsoft's new "support"of ODF 1.1 an attempt to cause problems for
OpenOffice 3.0 in September as that will support ODF 1.2?

Conspiracy theory it maybe or simply at attempt to slow down the take-up of
OOo 3.0?

  

A few reasons come to mind, though I can't rule out the above.

1) Pressure from the EU commission
2) ISO finally choked on OOXML
3) MS realizes they stand to lose a lot of customers, by continuing with 
the old course

4) None of the above
5) All of the above



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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[Drew Jensen]

mike scott wrote:

SUN threatened to sue

They stopped.

The outcome of that little exchange between the two companies was the 
birth of a totally new language - C#



That's probably it. Although my rather vague recollection is that 
there were some compatibility issues which went against Sun's 
licensing conditions.
  


Oh yes there most certainly where..and SUN was well within their rights 
to force them to stop.




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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[M Henri Day]

2008/5/22 Jason Cipriani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 10:22 PM, rob clement <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is Microsoft's new "support"of ODF 1.1 an attempt to cause problems for
> > OpenOffice 3.0 in September as that will support ODF 1.2?
> >
> > Conspiracy theory it maybe or simply at attempt to slow down the take-up
> of
> > OOo 3.0?
>
> In my little circle it's the other way around. The longer MSOffice
> goes without supporting ODF, the longer I can tell people "here is an
> ODF document, you'll have to go grab OpenOffice to edit it, it's
> really easy to set up"... I think they're just realizing "hey --
> OpenOffice -and- GoogleDocs both support this, *maybe* it's time to
> get up to speed here". I can't imagine any harm that could come to
> anything except MSOffice if they didn't start supporting ODF like
> everybody else so... that doesn't really seem like the makings of any
> conspiracy theory to me!
>
> Jason
>

To my mind, the really fascinating thing about this Microsoft announcement -
aside from the fact that it comes, as I have mentioned earlier, just after
MS decided to appeal an EC fine and that, as Jason points out above, it
doesn't refer to ODF 1.2 - is that the proposed update to MS Office 2007
will not support Microsoft's own OOXML «standard» - the one that the firm
bribed, cajoled, and coerced into acceptance by ISO (
http://tinyurl.com/6xdk4d) ! The deviousness of these chaps takes deception
to unprecedented levels

Henri

Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[Fred A. Miller]

mike scott wrote:
> On 22 May 2008 at 3:39, Drew Jensen wrote:
> 
>> Michael Adams wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 08:20:02 +0100
>>> mike scott wrote:
>>>
>>>   
 Unless their version starts acquiring incompatible extensions.

 Isn't this what happened with java? (Or maybe I remember wrongly.)

 
>>> Are you thinking JScript, Microsofts answer to Netscapes Javascript?
>>>
>>>   
>> I think he is referring to -
>>
>> Microsoft started made some changes to to the java language's 
>> implementation for Windows platforms
>>  primarily to address performance issues as I recall
>>
>> SUN threatened to sue
>>
>> They stopped.
>>
>> The outcome of that little exchange between the two companies was the 
>> birth of a totally new language - C#
> 
> That's probably it. Although my rather vague recollection is that 
> there were some compatibility issues which went against Sun's 
> licensing conditions.
> 
> It just seemed that MS, after taking ODF on board, would be in an ace 
> position to wreck its compatibility across systems, blame others, 
> then push their own as the One True Standard. Maybe I'm just too 
> cynical :-)

NO you're not! 'Ballmer has as much ethics and morals as a rabid grizzly.

Fred

-- 
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and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal
sharing of misery." - Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[James Knott]

Fred A. Miller wrote:

NO you're not! 'Ballmer has as much ethics and morals as a rabid grizzly.

Fred

  


Hi Fred.

You might want to check your computer clock.  It appears to be off by 
several hours.


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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[Fred A. Miller]

James Knott wrote:
> Fred A. Miller wrote:
>> NO you're not! 'Ballmer has as much ethics and morals as a rabid grizzly.
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>   
> 
> Hi Fred.
> 
> You might want to check your computer clock.  It appears to be off by
> several hours.

Thanks, James! I've be messing with openSUSE Betta 3 and now am back to
10.3. 'Guess I missed setting the clock correctly. :(

Fred

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and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal
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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[James Knott]

Fred A. Miller wrote:

James Knott wrote:
  

Fred A. Miller wrote:


NO you're not! 'Ballmer has as much ethics and morals as a rabid grizzly.

Fred

  
  

Hi Fred.

You might want to check your computer clock.  It appears to be off by
several hours.



Thanks, James! I've be messing with openSUSE Betta 3 and now am back to
10.3. 'Guess I missed setting the clock correctly. :(

Fred

  

You apparently replied to my note almost 12 hours before I sent it!  ;-)

Have you considered using an NTP clock?  There are lots of them around 
the world and they'll keep your clock accurate.  I use one to 
synchronize my computer clock and when I compare it with a clock that's 
synchronized  with WWVB, they're right on the same time, within a 
fraction of a second.




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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[Fred A. Miller]

James Knott wrote:
> Fred A. Miller wrote:
>> James Knott wrote:
>>  
>>> Fred A. Miller wrote:
>>>
 NO you're not! 'Ballmer has as much ethics and morals as a rabid
 grizzly.

 Fred

 
>>> Hi Fred.
>>>
>>> You might want to check your computer clock.  It appears to be off by
>>> several hours.
>>> 
>>
>> Thanks, James! I've be messing with openSUSE Betta 3 and now am back to
>> 10.3. 'Guess I missed setting the clock correctly. :(
>>
>> Fred
>>
>>   
> You apparently replied to my note almost 12 hours before I sent it!  ;-)
> 
> Have you considered using an NTP clock?  There are lots of them around
> the world and they'll keep your clock accurate.  I use one to
> synchronize my computer clock and when I compare it with a clock that's
> synchronized  with WWVB, they're right on the same time, within a
> fraction of a second.

I ALWAYS use NTP clock.just forgot to set it up. ;) Note the correct
time?

Fred

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and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal
sharing of misery." - Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[web at work]

http://government.zdnet.com/?p=3832


Here is another article.  I say this one first.  It talked
like PC World scooped MS's anouncement.

I had loaded FireFox with all of the MS/ODF articles
listed on this list and will be reading them.


MS is planning something.  That is the only reason for
them to say they will support ODF, since they have
pushed their format so hard as the only real choice
for a ISO standard.

Something is up.  Maybe they figured out a way to
make ODF look bad in some way, like other have said.

I think they have a plan for their next office suite
that would cause trouble.  Maybe make a big show
of trying to comply with ODF but publically state
that they cannot get it to work correctly, or somehow
start talking about how the "old" version of the ISO
ODF is not keeping up with the newest things 
on the market and technology needs to offer.


I am just thinking out loud, but MS must have 
something in mind that would profit them and 
to make other look bad.   That is the only reason

they would spend the money on this project.



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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[Jason Cipriani]

On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 8:51 PM, web at work <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> MS is planning something.  That is the only reason for
> them to say they will support ODF, since they have
> pushed their format so hard as the only real choice
> for a ISO standard.

I dunno; I mean the article does say:

"On a phone call yesterday, Doug Mahugh, senior product manager for
Office, said Microsoft will also offer an API that will provide the
hooks for developers to plug support for other formats right into
Office."

Don't forget that "drama" like this will continue forever, as long as
everybody "working group" and their brother continues coming up with
their own personal way of making things portable ;-)

I don't think there's anything odd about it at all. And in 4 years
when  develops an entirely new
format rather than improving on existing ones, well, we can do it all
again. In the mean time, I say scrap *all* of this, go back, and come
up with some new extensions to RTF or something.

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Re: [users] Microsoft and ODF

[James Knott]

web at work wrote:




http://government.zdnet.com/?p=3832


Here is another article.  I say this one first.  It talked
like PC World scooped MS's anouncement.

I had loaded FireFox with all of the MS/ODF articles
listed on this list and will be reading them.


MS is planning something.  That is the only reason for
them to say they will support ODF, since they have
pushed their format so hard as the only real choice
for a ISO standard.

Something is up.  Maybe they figured out a way to
make ODF look bad in some way, like other have said.

I think they have a plan for their next office suite
that would cause trouble.  Maybe make a big show
of trying to comply with ODF but publically state
that they cannot get it to work correctly, or somehow
start talking about how the "old" version of the ISO
ODF is not keeping up with the newest things on the market and 
technology needs to offer.


I am just thinking out loud, but MS must have something in mind that 
would profit them and to make other look bad.   That is the only reason

they would spend the money on this project.



Or, hopefully, they've realized that with the EU commision breathing 
down their neck, the problems caused by forcing OOXML through ISO and 
customer pressure have forced them to support it "or else".



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