[VIHUELA] London visit

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to let you know I’m visiting London next month and plan to attend 
the 11 May Lute Society meeting. I’ve been in touch with several of you for 
many years, especially Monica, and if you’ll be there too I’ll finally get a 
chance to meet you. I’m looking forward to the meeting very much and hope to 
see some of you there!

Best wishes,
Jocelyn


Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
506 School of Music
East Carolina University
252-328-1255 Office
252-328-6258 Fax
nels...@ecu.edu





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

I agree with Rob, Monica, thank you for your work. Here in North Carolina it 
was a wonderful thing to see first thing in the morning. I enjoyed exploring a 
bit of it before getting into the daily grind.
Regards,
Jocelyn

-- 
Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
ECU School of Music Writing Liaison
Chancellor’s Leadership Academy Alum 
310 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu 
On 4/3/18, 8:38 AM, "lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of 
mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu"  wrote:

Thank you for your kind words.
Hope you are having a pleasant Easter break.
Monica

Original Message
From: robmackil...@gmail.com
Date: 03/04/2018 12:26 
To: "mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk"
Cc: "VihuelaList"
Subj: Re: [VIHUELA] Corbetta

Wow. Well done, Monica, and thanks for sharing. The amount of work you 
give
to the baroque-guitar community - and for no money - is incredible, and 
you
should be loudly thanked for it!

Rob MacKillop

On 3 April 2018 at 12:19, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu  wrote:

> If anyone is interested I have now added to my web pages a rather 
basic
> tablature edition of the pieces attributed to Corbetta in the Gallot
> ms. GB-Ob Ms.Mus.Sch.C94.
>
> www.monicahall.co.uk/corbetta . It is second from the bottom of the
> list of contents.
>
> Regards
> Monica
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   PS: I was able to learn MuseScore very quickly after 15 years of not
   using a notation software, and it works well. Very happy Ralf suggested
   it, and John Griffiths has noticed the same thing for himself. I am
   really interested in some of the other programs recommended to me on
   this list, like Fandango, but the open source nature of MuseScore is a
   great plus that makes me want to mention this to my music students who
   are of course on a tight budget. My music school's labs use Sibelius.

   JN
 __

   From: Nelson, Jocelyn
   Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2017 7:49 AM
   To: Ralf Mattes; Martyn Hodgson
   Cc: Vihuelalist
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations

   ​Hi Martyn,

   This is a great question! Short answer: I say somewhat quicker through
   software, and much quicker if you don't count the initial learning
   curve journey with software new to you, and the occasional bumps in the
   road (how do I delineate these voices? or beam this particular way?
   etc.). It's indispensable if you want to publish, and a bit easier on
   your ensemble mates. But for oneself, not necessarily worth it if you
   don't have those printing and ensemble needs, or if your score looks
   really good by hand.

   The initial setup can be an exercise in patience. Years ago, well I was
   getting my degree, I had to use Finale. It took me a while (several
   hours) to train myself using the manual, but once I did, input was
   definitely quicker than by hand. (This was more than 15 years ago, so
   don't take that as a judgment Finale now.)

   Since then, I have managed to get by without using notation software,
   because I spend most of my time here at ECU teaching music history and
   music appreciation classes. Like you, I've just been doing arrangements
   by hand for my performances. I did an album with the soprano in 2010,
   and we both read from the original tablature and vocal score (nice of
   Le Roy and Morlaye to include both) for every single number, except the
   last, which was my arrangement of "Tant que vivray," which I wrote out
   by hand; very simple.

   But I wanted notation software for this project because of some
   confusing transposition issues, and the fact that Fuenllana does
   not include a vocal score; the voice is the red font in the tab
   numbers. I'm only doing 2 songs, so I'm not investing in a midi
   keyboard the way Ralf recommends, but if I do a bigger project someday
   I would do that, because I remember with Finale how fast input can be
   with a keyboard. You're literally playing the music and it notates.

   Hope this helps,

   Jocelyn

   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   Lute Society of America Board Member
   506 School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252-328-1255 Office
   252-328-6258 Fax
   nels...@ecu.edu
 __

   From: Martyn Hodgson 
   Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 2:34 AM
   To: Nelson, Jocelyn; Ralf Mattes
   Cc: Vihuelalist
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations

   Dear Jocelyn,
   One of the difficulties I personally find with these typesetting
   softwares is the length of time it takes to actually input the music
   (either staff notation or tablature), and I generally simply write out
   (staff notation) parts for the ensemble - often full/short scores or
   individual parts where necessary.
   So, as a relative newcomer to these, I'd be grateful for your personal
   feedback on how you find the time compares between inputting (via
   PC/laptop keyboard) and writing out the part(s) by hand?
   regards
   MH
 __________

   From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" 
   To: Ralf Mattes 
   Cc: Vihuelalist 
   Sent: Wednesday, 26 July 2017, 1:57
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations
   Thanks again, Ralf!
   I hope you don't mind if I forwarded your tablature tuning answer to
   John Griffiths, who is also working on the same sort of project with a
   singer. He downloaded MuseScore and had the same question. I think he
   is also happy to find out about this software.
   Jocelyn
   
   From: Ralf Mattes <[1]r...@mh-freiburg.de>
   Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:36 PM
   To: Nelson, Jocelyn
   Cc: Vihuelalist
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Re:?=_[VIHUELA]?=_Re:?=
   _Re=3A?=_=5BVIHUELA=5D?=?= Notation software  recommendations=3F?=?=
   Am Dienstag, 25. Juli 2017 17:04 CEST, "Nelson, Jocelyn"
   <[2]nels...@ecu.edu> schrieb:
   > Thanks so much, Ralf. I tried your advice and the tablature is just
   the way I want it now.
   > I'm sticking with this program because it's free and relat

[VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   ​Hi Martyn,

   This is a great question! Short answer: I say somewhat quicker through
   software, and much quicker if you don't count the initial learning
   curve journey with software new to you, and the occasional bumps in the
   road (how do I delineate these voices? or beam this particular way?
   etc.). It's indispensable if you want to publish, and a bit easier on
   your ensemble mates. But for oneself, not necessarily worth it if you
   don't have those printing and ensemble needs, or if your score looks
   really good by hand.

   The initial setup can be an exercise in patience. Years ago, well I was
   getting my degree, I had to use Finale. It took me a while (several
   hours) to train myself using the manual, but once I did, input was
   definitely quicker than by hand. (This was more than 15 years ago, so
   don't take that as a judgment Finale now.)

   Since then, I have managed to get by without using notation software,
   because I spend most of my time here at ECU teaching music history and
   music appreciation classes. Like you, I've just been doing arrangements
   by hand for my performances. I did an album with the soprano in 2010,
   and we both read from the original tablature and vocal score (nice of
   Le Roy and Morlaye to include both) for every single number, except the
   last, which was my arrangement of "Tant que vivray," which I wrote out
   by hand; very simple.

   But I wanted notation software for this project because of some
   confusing transposition issues, and the fact that Fuenllana does
   not include a vocal score; the voice is the red font in the tab
   numbers. I'm only doing 2 songs, so I'm not investing in a midi
   keyboard the way Ralf recommends, but if I do a bigger project someday
   I would do that, because I remember with Finale how fast input can be
   with a keyboard. You're literally playing the music and it notates.

   Hope this helps,

   Jocelyn

   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   Lute Society of America Board Member
   506 School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252-328-1255 Office
   252-328-6258 Fax
   nels...@ecu.edu
 __

   From: Martyn Hodgson 
   Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2017 2:34 AM
   To: Nelson, Jocelyn; Ralf Mattes
   Cc: Vihuelalist
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations

   Dear Jocelyn,
   One of the difficulties I personally find with these typesetting
   softwares is the length of time it takes to actually input the music
   (either staff notation or tablature), and I generally simply write out
   (staff notation) parts for the ensemble - often full/short scores or
   individual parts where necessary.
   So, as a relative newcomer to these, I'd be grateful for your personal
   feedback on how you find the time compares between inputting (via
   PC/laptop keyboard) and writing out the part(s) by hand?
   regards
   MH
 __________

   From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" 
   To: Ralf Mattes 
   Cc: Vihuelalist 
   Sent: Wednesday, 26 July 2017, 1:57
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations
   Thanks again, Ralf!
   I hope you don't mind if I forwarded your tablature tuning answer to
   John Griffiths, who is also working on the same sort of project with a
   singer. He downloaded MuseScore and had the same question. I think he
   is also happy to find out about this software.
   Jocelyn
   
   From: Ralf Mattes <[1]r...@mh-freiburg.de>
   Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:36 PM
   To: Nelson, Jocelyn
   Cc: Vihuelalist
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Re:?=_[VIHUELA]?=_Re:?=
   _Re=3A?=_=5BVIHUELA=5D?=?= Notation software  recommendations=3F?=?=
   Am Dienstag, 25. Juli 2017 17:04 CEST, "Nelson, Jocelyn"
   <[2]nels...@ecu.edu> schrieb:
   > Thanks so much, Ralf. I tried your advice and the tablature is just
   the way I want it now.
   > I'm sticking with this program because it's free and relatively easy;
   And it's actually Oen Source and Free Software. Even better.
   > at least I've figured it out and I'm almost done transcribing the
   first song. I just ordered a numeric
   > keypad for my laptop to make the tab entry faster.
   Depending on how your brain is wired, you might not even need the
   numeric keypad - even with italian tab
   MuseScore accepts letters to enter tab.
   Another secret speed entry trick of mine: get a cheap midi keyboard,
   preferably with a few buttons (often
   called "drum pads") and assign note value selection to those buttons.
   Together with a cheap (~ 15$) food pedal
   attached to the midi keyboard (I use this to advance to the next chord
   in "manual real time input mode") th

[VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks again, Ralf! 

I hope you don't mind if I forwarded your tablature tuning answer to John 
Griffiths, who is also working on the same sort of project with a singer. He 
downloaded MuseScore and had the same question. I think he is also happy to 
find out about this software.

Jocelyn


From: Ralf Mattes 
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:36 PM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Re=3A?=_=5BVIHUELA=5D?=_Re=3A?= 
_Re=3D3A=3F=3D=5F=3D5BVIHUELA=3D5D=3F=3D?= Notation software  
recommendations=3D3F=3F=3D?=

Am Dienstag, 25. Juli 2017 17:04 CEST, "Nelson, Jocelyn"  
schrieb:

> Thanks so much, Ralf. I tried your advice and the tablature is just the way I 
> want it now.
> I'm sticking with this program because it's free and relatively easy;

And it's actually Oen Source and Free Software. Even better.

> at least I've figured it out and I'm almost done transcribing the first song. 
> I just ordered a numeric
> keypad for my laptop to make the tab entry faster.

Depending on how your brain is wired, you might not even need the numeric 
keypad - even with italian tab
MuseScore accepts letters to enter tab.
Another secret speed entry trick of mine: get a cheap midi keyboard, preferably 
with a few buttons (often
called "drum pads") and assign note value selection to those buttons. Together 
with a cheap (~ 15$) food pedal
attached to the midi keyboard (I use this to advance to the next chord in 
"manual real time input mode") this
makes for super-fast tab writing. Just one hint: the note->tab postition 
algorythm seems to work best when you
enter the notes of a chord from top to bottom (that's something I had to get 
usesd to).

It's also a good idea to read the printed manual "Mastering MuseScore", it's 
writen by one of the main
developers and that way you can support further develop,ment. Or even better: 
get your library to by
copy. Even so a lot of the Tab features are newer than the printed book (the 
curse of fast open source
development) there are a lot of great time savers to be found.

> Your many details below are greatly appreciated.

You're wellcome.

> And many thanks to everyone else on this list. Some of these recommended 
> programs are beautiful and I would like to explore them in the future.
>
> Best wishes and happy transcribing to all,
> Jocelyn

Thanks, same to you,

 Ralf Mattes




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Re=3A?=_=5BVIHUELA=5D?=_Re=3A?= _Re=3D3A=3F=3D=5F=3D5BVIHUELA=3D5D=3F=3D?= Notation software recommendations=3D3F=3F=3D?=

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks so much, Ralf. I tried your advice and the tablature is just the way I 
want it now. I'm sticking with this program because it's free and relatively 
easy; at least I've figured it out and I'm almost done transcribing the first 
song. I just ordered a numeric keypad for my laptop to make the tab entry 
faster. Your many details below are greatly appreciated. 

And many thanks to everyone else on this list. Some of these recommended 
programs are beautiful and I would like to explore them in the future.

Best wishes and happy transcribing to all,
Jocelyn



From: Ralf Mattes 
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 12:58 PM
To: Ralf Mattes
Cc: Nelson, Jocelyn; Vihuelalist
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re=3A?=_=5BVIHUELA=5D?=_Re=3A?= 
_Re=3D3A=3F=3D=5F=3D5BVIHUELA=3D5D=3F=3D?= Notation software  
recommendations=3D3F=3F=3D?=

Silly me, I forgot to answer your question. To change the string tuning, go to 
the 'Staff Properties' dialog,
all the way at the bottom you'll find 'Number of strings' and next to that a 
button labled 'Edit string data'.
Once you click that you find a dialog where you can remove strings and change 
their pitch (admittedly not
the most intuitive dialog).
I pays off if you do this once and use that file as a template.

Cheers, RalfD

Am Montag, 24. Juli 2017 18:48 CEST, "Ralf Mattes"  
schrieb:

>
> Am Montag, 24. Juli 2017 16:49 CEST, "Nelson, Jocelyn"  
> schrieb:
>
> > Thanks so much for this, Ralf! I went ahead and downloaded it and have been 
> > trying it out. I like it so far.
> >
> > One question: Do the tablatures (I'm using the uke tab for my renaissance 
> > 4-course) have a feature to change the tuning? The uke tab is actually 
> > perfect, except it's upside down for Fuenllana's tablature.
> >
>
> This is why I'd rather use one of the lute tabs as a starting point (you need 
> to select 'Early music'  from the
> drop-down menu in the 'Instruments' dialog (Instruments >> Early music  >> 
> Plucked Strings).
> Then, after adding  a lute staff but still on that dialog, select 'Tab. 
> 6-str. Italian' from the drop down menu all the
> way on the right side (under 'Staff type).
>
> Next, in the score, right-click on the staff. From the popup menu, select 
> 'Staff Properties ...'. In that dialog you can
> change the number of staff lines (all the way at the top under Tablature 
> 'Lines'). Next, select 'Advanced Style Properties'
> (button under the staff line color box).  This will open another dialog where 
> you can customize the tab style.
> For Fuenllana you woud select: Fret marks - 'Upside down', the 'MuseScore Tab 
> Renaiss', 'On lines', 'Numbers'.
> On the 'Note Values' tab, select 'MuseScore Font Italian' . That should give 
> you a pretty good starting point.
>
> HTH, Ralf Mattes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Re=3A?=_=5BVIHUELA=5D?= Notation software recommendations=3F?=

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks so much for this, Ralf! I went ahead and downloaded it and have been 
trying it out. I like it so far. 

One question: Do the tablatures (I'm using the uke tab for my renaissance 
4-course) have a feature to change the tuning? The uke tab is actually perfect, 
except it's upside down for Fuenllana's tablature.

Thanks again,
Jocelyn

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf of Ralf 
Mattes 
Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 7:39 AM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re=3A?=_=5BVIHUELA=5D?= Notation software  
recommendations=3F?=

Am Donnerstag, 20. Juli 2017 18:27 CEST, "Nelson, Jocelyn"  
schrieb:

>Hi Everyone,
>
>Does anyone on the list recommend any particular brand of notation
>software for our early guitar purposes? I'm transcribing the Fuenllana
>guitar songs for myself (on 4-course) and a singer to perform in
>September. So far I'm looking at Guitar
>Pro: [1]https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home​ because it
>converts tab into standard notation and I'm not sure whether Sibelius
>does that. I'd like my score to have both tablature and standard
>notation.
>
>What notation software brands have worked best for you?

Sorry for joining the discussion so late. I'd suggest you have a look at
MuseScore (https://musescore.org), a free and open source notation software
that recently got some pretty nice support for early plucked instruments (so
make shure to download Version 2.1). It runs native on Linux, MacOS X and 
windows,
and can import GuitarPro files, as well as MusicXML (unfortunately the de facto
standard to exchange Music between different applications). It's figured bass 
support
makes it my first choice when it comes to editing early music and it's perfect 
for
teaching environments.
If you are into 16th century music, have a look at  
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/early-music-features
as well as https://musescore.org/en/handbook/figured-bass
Musescore has a feature called 'linked staff' which lets you link a tab staff 
with an ordinary staff.
Entering music in one will add the corresponding note/number/letter to the 
linked staff (kind of
scarry that it works both ways), but don't expect too much. If your tab is 
polyphonic you really want
to be able to create seperate voices (up to four per staff). Also, afaik there 
is no way to link to
a 'Piano Style' staff.
If you need help setting up a template document, send me a note.

HTH, Ralf Mattes

>Many thanks and happy summer,
>
>Jocelyn
>
>Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
>Teaching Assistant Professor
>Early Guitar, Music History
>Lute Society of America Board Member
>506 School of Music
>East Carolina University
>252-328-1255 Office
>252-328-6258 Fax
>nels...@ecu.edu
>
>--
>
> References
>
>1. https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks, Rocky! Finale was my notation software, like a million years ago. I 
liked it, and it's nice to know it uses tab in case the early music ones don't 
work out with my university.
J


From: Mjos & Larson 
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 3:38 PM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn
Cc: DANIEL SHOSKES; Vihuelalist
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Notation software recommendations?

If you are already a Finale user, you might try that program’s tab options.

All my tab scores are done on a Mac using Finale (see one of my Ning pages). 
David van Ooijen also uses Finale.

It’s not particularly well set up to handle early music tablature, but I’m 
happy with the results and with the help of some customized fonts Finale 
handles most of my needs. There is a lot of control over appearance available 
if one digs in to the detailed settings.

I can select and drag a system of tablature onto a regular staff system and it 
will convert it to notation, though if there are more than one note per “event” 
they convert to chards rather than separate voices.

Finale can also convert notes on a staff to tab by selecting and dragging the 
notes from a staff system onto a tab system.

— Rocky


On Jul 20, 2017, at 12:29 PM, Nelson, Jocelyn  wrote:

> Thanks, Danny!
>
>
> 
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf of 
> DANIEL SHOSKES 
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:25 PM
> To: Nelson, Jocelyn
> Cc: Vihuelalist
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?
>
> I run Fronimo and Django on a Mac using VMware Fusion and it also is a good 
> solution.
>
>> On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Nelson, Jocelyn  wrote:
>>
>>  Thanks; I also see that the Fuenllana solos are there, which is great,
>>  but not the songs.
>>
>>  Again, this is another designed for PC or Windows. Does anyone find
>>  success using it with supported systems as they show on the Fandango
>>  site? [1]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/pages/fandango​
>>
>>  Since I'm using my university's computer (and my dept will pay for it),
>>  I'm checking in with my IT folks about Parallels, which Rob
>>  suggested, to make sure it's approved.
>>
>>  I really appreciate all this quick help, thanks!
>>
>>  Jocelyn
>>__
>>
>>  From: Azalais 
>>  Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:09 PM
>>  To: Nelson, Jocelyn
>>  Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?
>>
>>  ps.  I just checked the Fandango library and the Fuenllana pieces are
>>  not there...  yet.  sorry.
>>  On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Azalais <[2]azal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Fandango (Formerly known as Django)  Is excellent and also gives you
>>  access to an extensive library of pieces.
>>  It also allows you to import midi files,  and allows for tweaking the
>>  string tuning, staves, and instrument configuration to suit your
>>  tablature preferences. (There are also interesting fonts and glyphs for
>>  making the sheets look very much like the original facsimiles, or
>>  standard notation (or both).  The author and many members of this group
>>  use it, so help is always available too.  [In fact, I would guess that
>>  the Fuenllana pieces are already in the library for immediate download!
>>  [3]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/
>>
>>  On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Nelson, Jocelyn <[4]nels...@ecu.edu>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>Does Fronimo work on mac? I used it some years ago on a PC, but I'm
>>using a mac now.
>>J
>>
>>From: Rob MacKillop <[5]robmackil...@gmail.com>
>>Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 12:47 PM
>>To: Nelson, Jocelyn
>>Cc: Vihuelalist
>>Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Notation software recommendations?
>>Hi Jocelyn,
>>Sibelius can't automatically show minims (half notes) or longer. To
>>do so requires a lot of palaver, and even then never looks good. In
>>short, it's a pain.
>>Why not try Fronimo? It's cheapish, has a support forum populated by
>>lute and baroque guitar players, and does automatic conversion to
>>standard notation. Lots of nice fonts too, and has
>>four-five-six-course tab staves to choose from.
>>Rob MacKillop
>>> On 20 Jul 2017, at 17:27, Nelson, Jocelyn <[6]nels...@ecu.edu>
>>wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> Does anyone on the list recommend any particular brand of
>>notation
>>

[VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks, Danny!



From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf of DANIEL 
SHOSKES 
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:25 PM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?

I run Fronimo and Django on a Mac using VMware Fusion and it also is a good 
solution.

> On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:21 PM, Nelson, Jocelyn  wrote:
>
>   Thanks; I also see that the Fuenllana solos are there, which is great,
>   but not the songs.
>
>   Again, this is another designed for PC or Windows. Does anyone find
>   success using it with supported systems as they show on the Fandango
>   site? [1]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/pages/fandango​
>
>   Since I'm using my university's computer (and my dept will pay for it),
>   I'm checking in with my IT folks about Parallels, which Rob
>   suggested, to make sure it's approved.
>
>   I really appreciate all this quick help, thanks!
>
>   Jocelyn
> __
>
>   From: Azalais 
>   Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:09 PM
>   To: Nelson, Jocelyn
>   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?
>
>   ps.  I just checked the Fandango library and the Fuenllana pieces are
>   not there...  yet.  sorry.
>   On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Azalais <[2]azal...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   Fandango (Formerly known as Django)  Is excellent and also gives you
>   access to an extensive library of pieces.
>   It also allows you to import midi files,  and allows for tweaking the
>   string tuning, staves, and instrument configuration to suit your
>   tablature preferences. (There are also interesting fonts and glyphs for
>   making the sheets look very much like the original facsimiles, or
>   standard notation (or both).  The author and many members of this group
>   use it, so help is always available too.  [In fact, I would guess that
>   the Fuenllana pieces are already in the library for immediate download!
>   [3]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/
>
>   On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Nelson, Jocelyn <[4]nels...@ecu.edu>
>   wrote:
>
> Does Fronimo work on mac? I used it some years ago on a PC, but I'm
> using a mac now.
>     J
> 
> From: Rob MacKillop <[5]robmackil...@gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 12:47 PM
> To: Nelson, Jocelyn
> Cc: Vihuelalist
> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Notation software recommendations?
> Hi Jocelyn,
> Sibelius can't automatically show minims (half notes) or longer. To
> do so requires a lot of palaver, and even then never looks good. In
> short, it's a pain.
> Why not try Fronimo? It's cheapish, has a support forum populated by
> lute and baroque guitar players, and does automatic conversion to
> standard notation. Lots of nice fonts too, and has
> four-five-six-course tab staves to choose from.
> Rob MacKillop
>> On 20 Jul 2017, at 17:27, Nelson, Jocelyn <[6]nels...@ecu.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>>  Hi Everyone,
>>
>>  Does anyone on the list recommend any particular brand of
> notation
>>  software for our early guitar purposes? I'm transcribing the
> Fuenllana
>>  guitar songs for myself (on 4-course) and a singer to perform in
>>  September. So far I'm looking at Guitar
>>  Pro: [1][7]https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home​
> because it
>
>>  converts tab into standard notation and I'm not sure whether
>   Sibelius
>>  does that. I'd like my score to have both tablature and standard
>>  notation.
>>
>>  What notation software brands have worked best for you?
>>
>>  Many thanks and happy summer,
>>
>>  Jocelyn
>>
>>  Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
>>  Teaching Assistant Professor
>>  Early Guitar, Music History
>>  Lute Society of America Board Member
>>  506 School of Music
>>  East Carolina University
>>  [8]252-328-1255 Office
>>  [9]252-328-6258 Fax
>>  [10]nels...@ecu.edu
>>
>>  --
>>
>> References
>>
>>  1. [11]https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>   --
>
> References
>
>   1. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/pages/fandango
>   2. mailto:azal...@gmail.com
>   3. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/
>   4. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
>   5. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
>   6. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
>   7. https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
>   8. tel:252-328-1255
>   9. tel:252-328-6258
>  10. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
>  11. https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
>  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Thanks; I also see that the Fuenllana solos are there, which is great,
   but not the songs.

   Again, this is another designed for PC or Windows. Does anyone find
   success using it with supported systems as they show on the Fandango
   site? [1]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/pages/fandango​

   Since I'm using my university's computer (and my dept will pay for it),
   I'm checking in with my IT folks about Parallels, which Rob
   suggested, to make sure it's approved.

   I really appreciate all this quick help, thanks!

   Jocelyn
 __

   From: Azalais 
   Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 1:09 PM
   To: Nelson, Jocelyn
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?

   ps.  I just checked the Fandango library and the Fuenllana pieces are
   not there...  yet.  sorry.
   On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 1:02 PM, Azalais <[2]azal...@gmail.com> wrote:

   Fandango (Formerly known as Django)  Is excellent and also gives you
   access to an extensive library of pieces.
   It also allows you to import midi files,  and allows for tweaking the
   string tuning, staves, and instrument configuration to suit your
   tablature preferences. (There are also interesting fonts and glyphs for
   making the sheets look very much like the original facsimiles, or
   standard notation (or both).  The author and many members of this group
   use it, so help is always available too.  [In fact, I would guess that
   the Fuenllana pieces are already in the library for immediate download!
   [3]http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/

   On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 12:51 PM, Nelson, Jocelyn <[4]nels...@ecu.edu>
   wrote:

 Does Fronimo work on mac? I used it some years ago on a PC, but I'm
 using a mac now.
 J
 
 From: Rob MacKillop <[5]robmackil...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 12:47 PM
 To: Nelson, Jocelyn
 Cc: Vihuelalist
 Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Notation software recommendations?
 Hi Jocelyn,
 Sibelius can't automatically show minims (half notes) or longer. To
 do so requires a lot of palaver, and even then never looks good. In
 short, it's a pain.
 Why not try Fronimo? It's cheapish, has a support forum populated by
 lute and baroque guitar players, and does automatic conversion to
 standard notation. Lots of nice fonts too, and has
 four-five-six-course tab staves to choose from.
     Rob MacKillop
 > On 20 Jul 2017, at 17:27, Nelson, Jocelyn <[6]nels...@ecu.edu>
 wrote:
 >
 >   Hi Everyone,
 >
 >   Does anyone on the list recommend any particular brand of
 notation
 >   software for our early guitar purposes? I'm transcribing the
 Fuenllana
 >   guitar songs for myself (on 4-course) and a singer to perform in
 >   September. So far I'm looking at Guitar
 >   Pro: [1][7]https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home​
 because it

   >   converts tab into standard notation and I'm not sure whether
   Sibelius
   >   does that. I'd like my score to have both tablature and standard
   >   notation.
   >
   >   What notation software brands have worked best for you?
   >
   >   Many thanks and happy summer,
   >
   >   Jocelyn
   >
   >   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   >   Teaching Assistant Professor
   >   Early Guitar, Music History
   >   Lute Society of America Board Member
   >   506 School of Music
   >   East Carolina University
   >   [8]252-328-1255 Office
   >   [9]252-328-6258 Fax
   >   [10]nels...@ecu.edu
   >
   >   --
   >
   > References
   >
   >   1. [11]https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/pages/fandango
   2. mailto:azal...@gmail.com
   3. http://fandango.musickshandmade.com/
   4. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
   5. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
   6. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
   7. https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
   8. tel:252-328-1255
   9. tel:252-328-6258
  10. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
  11. https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
  12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Notation software recommendations?

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Does Fronimo work on mac? I used it some years ago on a PC, but I'm using a mac 
now.
J


From: Rob MacKillop 
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 12:47 PM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Notation software recommendations?

Hi Jocelyn,

Sibelius can't automatically show minims (half notes) or longer. To do so 
requires a lot of palaver, and even then never looks good. In short, it's a 
pain.

Why not try Fronimo? It's cheapish, has a support forum populated by lute and 
baroque guitar players, and does automatic conversion to standard notation. 
Lots of nice fonts too, and has four-five-six-course tab staves to choose from.

Rob MacKillop


> On 20 Jul 2017, at 17:27, Nelson, Jocelyn  wrote:
>
>   Hi Everyone,
>
>   Does anyone on the list recommend any particular brand of notation
>   software for our early guitar purposes? I'm transcribing the Fuenllana
>   guitar songs for myself (on 4-course) and a singer to perform in
>   September. So far I'm looking at Guitar
>   Pro: [1]https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home​ because it
>   converts tab into standard notation and I'm not sure whether Sibelius
>   does that. I'd like my score to have both tablature and standard
>   notation.
>
>   What notation software brands have worked best for you?
>
>   Many thanks and happy summer,
>
>   Jocelyn
>
>   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
>   Teaching Assistant Professor
>   Early Guitar, Music History
>   Lute Society of America Board Member
>   506 School of Music
>   East Carolina University
>   252-328-1255 Office
>   252-328-6258 Fax
>   nels...@ecu.edu
>
>   --
>
> References
>
>   1. https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Notation software recommendations?

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Everyone,

   Does anyone on the list recommend any particular brand of notation
   software for our early guitar purposes? I'm transcribing the Fuenllana
   guitar songs for myself (on 4-course) and a singer to perform in
   September. So far I'm looking at Guitar
   Pro: [1]https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home​ because it
   converts tab into standard notation and I'm not sure whether Sibelius
   does that. I'd like my score to have both tablature and standard
   notation.

   What notation software brands have worked best for you?

   Many thanks and happy summer,

   Jocelyn

   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   Lute Society of America Board Member
   506 School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252-328-1255 Office
   252-328-6258 Fax
   nels...@ecu.edu

   --

References

   1. https://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php?pg=home


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: R. Turovsky : folk song variations for seven-string guitar in G

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Hi Stuart,

I enjoyed the music and also what you did with the painting. Can you tell
me anything about the painting?

Thanks for posting,
Jocelyn
--
Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
Lute Society of America, board member
310 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu







On 2/20/17, 8:50 AM, "lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of WALSH STUART"
 wrote:

>Marusya or Marussia - or one of several tunes with that name
>
>Variations by RT. Seventh string to C.
>
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVCzBkYIsUE
>
>
>
>Stuart
>
>
>---
>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: short piece by A. Sychra for seven-string guitar

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks, Stuart.



From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf of WALSH 
STUART 
Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 4:39 AM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: short piece by A. Sychra for seven-string guitar

On 1/7/2017 9:02 PM, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
> Another delightful video from youŠ a great break for me in a day filled
> with work. Thank you for posting, Stuart!
>
> Are you actually playing a 7-course guitar?
>
> Best,
> Jocelyn

Thanks Jocelyn. It's a seven-string guitar: DGBDGBD, Russian, patched up
and restored from the 1850s.


Stuart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 1/6/17, 11:51 AM, "lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of WALSH STUART"
>  wrote:
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0HlldzwW9k
>>
>> Showing the score in the video can show off  the player's limitations!
>>
>> Marusya can mean Mary or bitter...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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[VIHUELA] Re: short piece by A. Sychra for seven-string guitar

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Another delightful video from youŠ a great break for me in a day filled
with work. Thank you for posting, Stuart!

Are you actually playing a 7-course guitar?

Best,
Jocelyn








On 1/6/17, 11:51 AM, "lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of WALSH STUART"
 wrote:

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0HlldzwW9k
>
>Showing the score in the video can show off  the player's limitations!
>
>Marusya can mean Mary or bitter...
>
>
>
>
>Stuart
>
>
>---
>This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: a tiny dance for two machetes

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

How sweet. Unless she really was a tourist board plant :  D
Thanks for posting this music


From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2016 2:26 PM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn; Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: a tiny dance for two machetes

On 06/03/2016 19:03, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
> This was so delightful I had to replay it again right away, Stuart :  )
>
> What is the story about the pictures?
>
> Jocelyn


Thanks Jocelyn!


It's in a main street in Funchal, Madeira. I don't know if the nun is a
well-known local character - or someone employed by the Madeira tourist
board! - but she came along, listened to the guitarist playing outside a
cafe, and started dancing along to his playing. All the tourists
(including me) took photos of her.


Stuart
> 
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of 
> WALSH STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
> Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 11:14 AM
> To: Vihuelalist
> Subject: [VIHUELA] a tiny dance for two machetes
>
> Dança da Levada, arranged for two machetes by M.J.M. Cabral (1840s)
>
> played on a cavaquinho with nylgut strings
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsLwQxM0Eiw
>
>
>
> Stuart
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[VIHUELA] Re: a tiny dance for two machetes

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

This was so delightful I had to replay it again right away, Stuart :  )

What is the story about the pictures?

Jocelyn

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2016 11:14 AM
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] a tiny dance for two machetes

Dança da Levada, arranged for two machetes by M.J.M. Cabral (1840s)

played on a cavaquinho with nylgut strings


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsLwQxM0Eiw



Stuart

---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus



To get on or off this list see list information at
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[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta's dissonance

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thank you, Monica. 

Happy New Year to you, too :  )

Jocelyn

Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
Lute Society of America Board Member, Clerk
506 School of Music
East Carolina University
252-328-1255 Office
252-328-6258 Fax
nels...@ecu.edu

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of M Hall 
[mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 6:16 AM
To: Vihuela List
Subject: [VIHUELA] Corbetta's dissonance

   If anyone is interested I have now put a revised and slightly enlarged
   version of my article "Dissonance in the guitar music of Francesco
   Corbetta" which was included in Lute vol. 47 (2007) on my web page
   [1]www.monicahall.co.uk .  It is Section IV on the page devoted to
   Corbetta.

   A happy and prosperous New Year to you all.

   Monica

   --

References

   1. http://www.monicahall.co.uk/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: a little dance for machete (1840s Madeira)

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thank you, Stuart!
J



From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2015 7:02 AM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn; Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: a little dance for machete (1840s Madeira)

> Lovely: very sweet, sparkling tone!
>
> Who is Mrs. Christopher?
>
> Best,
> Jocelyn

Thanks Jocelyn.

If you scroll down this page:

http://machetista.blogspot.pt/

to the entry for August 2012, there is a section on the machete and two
photos of the MS belonging to Mrs Christopher: the cover and one page.

The MS now belongs to Manuel Morais and he has put some photos from the
MS on ning Early Guitar and Vihuela.

Many or all the the pieces in the MS, transcriptions not scans, are here:

http://www.recursosonline.org/

I don't know who Mrs Christopher is. Perhaps a British woman who was
studying the machete with a Madeiran teacher in the 1840s.

(there are some machete MSS in the Horniman Museum, London belonging to
a James Duff Gordon also from the 1840s - as are the Vasconcelos pieces)


Stuart
>
> 
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of 
> WALSH STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 12:46 PM
> To: Vihuelalist
> Subject: [VIHUELA] a little dance for machete (1840s Madeira)
>
> A 'Dança' for machete from the MS belonging to Mrs Christopher:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyKkn--uxNE
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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[VIHUELA] Re: a little dance for machete (1840s Madeira)

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Lovely: very sweet, sparkling tone!

Who is Mrs. Christopher?

Best,
Jocelyn


From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2015 12:46 PM
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] a little dance for machete (1840s Madeira)

A 'Dança' for machete from the MS belonging to Mrs Christopher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyKkn--uxNE


Stuart


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[VIHUELA] Re: My Web Site

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Bravo, Monica!!
Best,
Jocelyn


From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Monica 
Hall [mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2015 8:40 AM
To: Rob MacKillop
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: My Web Site

Yes - I find that www.monicahall.co.uk works as well.
- Original Message -
From: "Rob MacKillop" 
To: "Monica Hall" 
Cc: "Vihuelalist" 
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2015 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] My Web Site


> The web address Monica gave works well, but so does this more memorable
> one:
>
> http://monicahall.co.uk
>
> Rob
>
> www.robmackillop.net
>
>> On 4 Jul 2015, at 11:29, Monica Hall  wrote:
>>
>>   For those of you who are interested...
>>   My web site - [1]www.monicahall2.wordpress.com now has on it an
>>   extended study
>>   of Corbetta - the "best of all" in the words of Sanz and in my
>>   estimation
>>   too.
>>   The highlights of this are
>>   1.  An extended biography - I have collected together all the
>>   information
>>   currently known about his life and added a few snippets which I myself
>>   have discovered in the process and tried to set it out in coherant
>>   chronological order.
>>   2. A parellel translation of the Italian and French prefaces from "La
>>   guitarre royale" (1671) with his tablature example set out in a way
>>   which
>>   should make it possible to compare the two.
>>   It also includes translations of the instructions to the player from
>>   his
>>   four other books with examples and commentary.
>>   You will find it by clicking on the heading Corbetta on the home page
>>   preceding the edition of his manuscript pieces.
>>   It is all free!   Not sure that Ron would approve of that after reading
>>   his
>>   last post but not belonging to the musical establishment or being part
>>   of
>>   anyone's business model this is the only way I can make my efforts
>>   available - not to mention expose them to public scrutiny.
>>   Feel free to comment - but I am not likely to update this monumental
>>   work
>>   any time soon.
>>   But a monumental vote of Thanks to Rob who has made it all possible.
>>   Regards to all
>>   Monica
>>   [2]www.monicahall2.wordpress.com
>>
>>   --
>>
>> References
>>
>>   1. http://www.monicahall2.wordpress.com/
>>   2. http://www.monicahall2.wordpress.com/
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: little waltz from 1846 for machete and guitar

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks. It sounds very sweet and very danceable. Did you play both the guitar 
accompaniment and the machete part, recording on two tracks?
Jocelyn

_
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2015 8:57 AM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn; Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: little waltz from 1846 for machete and guitar

> I enjoyed this too, and the picture almost as much as the music; keep them 
> coming, Stuart! Is Cabral the composer or the player of the accompaniment, or 
> both?

Thank you  Jocelyn.

Cândido Drumond de Vasconcelos is the composer (or, just possibly, the 
arranger) of these pieces for machete from 1846 and Cabral composed the simple 
guitar accompaniments. Machete and guitar accompaniments are on opposite pages 
in the MS.


Stuart

>
> BTW, I neglected to thank you for your detailed answer to my question some 
> weeks ago. It was my huge busy time, end of the semester, and swamped with 
> student emails. I did read your answer and greatly appreciated it.
>
> Best,
> Jocelyn
>
> 
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of 
> WALSH STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 9:14 AM
> To: Vihuelalist
> Subject: [VIHUELA] little waltz from 1846 for machete and guitar
>
> a little waltz by Cândido Drumond de Vasconcelos for machete (with
> guitar accompaniment by M.J.M. Cabral) from  1846
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuf3AOOdl7s
>
>
> Stuart
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>


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[VIHUELA] Re: little waltz from 1846 for machete and guitar

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

I enjoyed this too, and the picture almost as much as the music; keep them 
coming, Stuart! Is Cabral the composer or the player of the accompaniment, or 
both?

BTW, I neglected to thank you for your detailed answer to my question some 
weeks ago. It was my huge busy time, end of the semester, and swamped with 
student emails. I did read your answer and greatly appreciated it.

Best,
Jocelyn


From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2015 9:14 AM
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] little waltz from 1846 for machete and guitar

a little waltz by Cândido Drumond de Vasconcelos for machete (with
guitar accompaniment by M.J.M. Cabral) from  1846

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuf3AOOdl7s


Stuart

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[VIHUELA] Re: Stefano Pesori ('realised' by Martyn Hodgson) Suplice Penitente (and 'sua passagio') from Lo Scrigno Armonico (1640)

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

I enjoyed listening to this; very nice!



From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2015 4:24 AM
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Stefano Pesori ('realised' by Martyn Hodgson) Suplice 
Penitente (and 'sua passagio') from Lo Scrigno Armonico (1640)

Martyn Hodgson has made 'realisations' of some of the pieces in Pesori's
Lo Scrigno Armonico. The tablature is very corrupt and some kind of
realisation has to be made to produce something actually playable.

Yet Pesori's work was re-printed and presumably players at the time were
playing from it.

Here is an Arietta: Suplice Penitente with its associated 'sua passaggio':


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGx8bpvHAds


Stuart

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[VIHUELA] Re: guitarists in 17th century Funchal (Madeira)

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks, Stuart!


From: WALSH STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 1:37 PM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn; Vihuelalist
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] guitarists in 17th century Funchal (Madeira)

On 09/04/2015 16:29, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
> Thank you, Stuart. Where you there and took these yourself? If so, any 
> eye-witness thoughts on whether these are 5-course guitars? I counted 4 pegs 
> on a side of 2 of these pics, and 5 on one.
>
> Best.
> Jocelyn

Yes. I was there a couple of weeks ago. But the guitarists were high on
a (17th century)  chapel wall as it meets the ceiling and I didn't have
a tripod. It was impossible to see any details other than in the photos.
The convent guide had never noticed these images. It did seem strange to
have representations of guitar players in a chapel where nuns would pray
and meditate.

The four-string machete, well-documented in 19th century Madeira,
presumably had its roots in Portuguese guitar culture.



Stuart
>
> Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
> Teaching Assistant Professor
> Early Guitar, Music History
> Lute Society of America Board Member, Clerk
> 506 School of Music
> East Carolina University
> 252-328-1255 Office
> 252-328-6258 Fax
> nels...@ecu.edu
> 
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of 
> WALSH STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 8:56 AM
> To: Vihuelalist
> Subject: [VIHUELA] guitarists in 17th century Funchal (Madeira)
>
> Representations of guitar players in a private chapel (17th century) in
> a convent in Funchal, Madeira.
>
> http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/StClara1.jpg
> http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/StClara2.jpg
> http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/StClara3.jpg
>
>
> Stuart
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> .
>


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[VIHUELA] Re: guitarists in 17th century Funchal (Madeira)

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thank you, Stuart. Where you there and took these yourself? If so, any 
eye-witness thoughts on whether these are 5-course guitars? I counted 4 pegs on 
a side of 2 of these pics, and 5 on one.

Best.
Jocelyn

Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
Lute Society of America Board Member, Clerk
506 School of Music
East Carolina University
252-328-1255 Office
252-328-6258 Fax
nels...@ecu.edu

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 8:56 AM
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] guitarists in 17th century Funchal (Madeira)

Representations of guitar players in a private chapel (17th century) in
a convent in Funchal, Madeira.

http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/StClara1.jpg
http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/StClara2.jpg
http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/StClara3.jpg


Stuart


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[VIHUELA] Re: Derosier

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thank you, Monica! Interesting enough for me to grab my copy of the Tyler & 
Sparks and a pencil and include your information :  )

Best,
Jocelyn


From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Monica 
Hall [mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 9:23 AM
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Derosier

I will answer my own question in case any one is interested.  It is in the
Bibliotheque nationale de France.
Monica


- Original Message -
From: "Monica Hall" 
To: "Vihuelalist" 
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2015 2:01 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Derosier


> Does anyone know where there is a copy of the second edition of Nicolas
> Derosiers' little book i.e. "Nouveaux principes de la guitarre" printed in
> Paris in 1699?
> It's mentioned in Tyler's book but he doesn't give a location.
> Monica
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA] Dança da Floreiras, for two machetes (Madeira, 1840s)

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

I enjoyed this, too, Stuart! What a sweet tune, and the balance was on the 
mark. Did you create the animation of the plucked string players?

Best,
Jocelyn

Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
Lute Society of America Board Member, Clerk
506 School of Music
East Carolina University
252-328-1255 Office
252-328-6258 Fax
nels...@ecu.edu

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 3:12 PM
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Dança da Floreiras, for two machetes (Madeira, 1840s)

Google translate, translates 'Dança da Floreiras' as Dance of the
Planters which doesn't sound very good. Dance of the Florists is
probably  inaccurate as well as also lacking in something or other.
Anyway, at least 35 little duos survive for  19th century Madeiran machetes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skYN4msQXjw


Stuart

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[VIHUELA] Re: a little piece for machete from 1840s

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thank you for posting, Stuart! I enjoyed both the music (sweet tone!) and the 
lovely drawings.
Best wishes,
Jocelyn


Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
Lute Society of America Board Member, Clerk
506 School of Music
East Carolina University
252-328-1255 Office
252-328-6258 Fax
nels...@ecu.edu

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of WALSH 
STUART [s.wa...@ntlworld.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2015 5:09 PM
To: vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] a little piece for machete from 1840s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_d8zBSFeBo


Stuart

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[VIHUELA] Re: another little piece for the little machete ( mdi 19th C Madeira)

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks for posting, Stuart. I love the sound of the strums.
Best,
Jocelyn
-- 

Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
310 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu





On 9/1/14, 1:41 PM, "WALSH STUART"  wrote:

>Danca Camponeza by M.J.M Cabral from Estudos  para Machete but played on
>a a cavaquinho (slightly dodgy intonation on top note!)
>
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHkNwnjHMUs
>
>
>Stuart
>
>---
>This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>protection is active.
>http://www.avast.com
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Hi Monica,

I'm not familiar with the Guitar Summit list. Perhaps I'm on it if I got your 
message?

Best,
J


Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
506 School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of 
Matthew Daillie [dail...@club-internet.fr]
Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 10:40 AM
To: Monica Hall
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar Summit

Dear Monica,

I appear to be on the list but can't recall having received any messages either 
so I suppose it's just rather low key!

best

Matthew


On 23 juin 2014, at 16:30, Monica Hall  wrote:

>   I just wondered whether anyone else on this list is on the Guitar
>   Summit list and if so whether they ever get any messages.   I haven't
>   had any for months and was wondering whether it is defunct or whether I
>   have been struck off!
>
>
>
>   Thanks to all
>
>
>
>   Monica
>
>   --
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Santiago de Murcia

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Monica,


   I took a few master classes with Michael Lorimer in the late 1970s, and
   at the end of at least one of them he brought out an ornate baroque
   guitar and thrilled us all with a few dance pieces. I believe he played
   Roncalli--at least that's the name that sticks in my mind after all
   these years, but Murcia might have been in there, too. I'm so sorry I
   can't give you anything more tangible...not even an album: Michael was
   against recording on principle.


   This is a great project, Monica. I look forward to seeing what you find
   out.

   Best wishes,

   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu

   From: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Monday, May 12, 2014 9:03 AM
   To: Vihuelalist <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Santiago de Murcia

   I am trying to trace printed editions and recordings of S de Murcia's
   music
   in any format which pre-date 1987 - the year in which the Saldivar
   Codex
   came to light or at least was recognized as being a source of his
   music.
   People like Pujol, Graciano Tarrago, Jose Azpiazu and Alexander Bellow
   published arrangements of music by Sanz, Ruiz de Ribayaz and Guerau in
   the
   1950/60s but they don't seem to have been aware of Murcia's music at
   all.
   The earliest recording which I have devoted to his music is one made by
   Gerard Arriaga in 1987.   Does anyone know of recordings which include
   pieces by Murcia earlier than this - played on any kind of guitar - or
   anything else for that matter..
   Also (for good measure) the earliest article about him that I have a
   copy
   of  - included in the English peiodical "Guitar News" in 1967  - is a
   short
   one by D.E. McConnell.  It's about "Passacalles y obras" (which
   McConnell
   thought was the same as "Resumen de Acompanar") and this information
   was
   copied by Harvey Turnbull.  Does anyone have any references to
   him  ante
   dating this article?
   In a nutshell I am trying to ascertain how widely known Murcia was
   before
   the discovery of the Saldivar Codex.
   Any comments would be helpful.
   Best wishes to all
   Monica
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Zachary Taylor Chitarrino

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Edward,


   I didn't know about this at all. It looks beautiful; thanks for posting
   the link.


   Best,

   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu

   From: Edward Chrysogonus Yong <[2]edward.y...@gmail.com>
   Date: Friday, August 9, 2013 2:25 AM
   To: Vihuelalist <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Zachary Taylor Chitarrino

   Hi!
   I just realised Zachary Taylor now has a made-in-Vietnam Renaissance
   Guitar out:
   [4]http://www.mid-east.com/Strings/Guitar/Lourebach-Renaissance-Guitari
   no-Zachary-Taylor
   Granted that it's based on the 1646 Giovanni Smit, has a flat back and
   metal frets (tied frets available as special), and a scale length of
   42.5cm, but it seems quite beautifully made, and certainly far more
   elaborate than his Pakistan-made baroque guitar.
   Has anyone tried out one of these things?
   Edward Chrysogonus Yong
   [5]edward.y...@gmail.com
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   2. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. 
http://www.mid-east.com/Strings/Guitar/Lourebach-Renaissance-Guitarino-Zachary-Taylor
   5. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Three Playford tunes from Princess Anne's "lute" book

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Stuart and Monica,
   Thanks to both of you for this. I enjoyed listening--and watching--this
   evening, before having to go back to work after a holiday weekend
   (Labor Day over here).
   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --

   From: Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Sunday, September 2, 2012 3:07 PM
   To: WALSH STUART <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Three Playford tunes from Princess Anne's "lute"
   book

   Well - Please note that it is not a Dutch manuscript although it is now
   in a
   Dutch Library - the Nederlands Muziekinstituut in the Hague, and the
   call
   mark is NL:DHnmi Kluis D 1.  The manuscript belonged to our  English
   Queen
   Anne and was
   copied and bound before she came to the throne in 1702.  She was the
   younger
   daughter of James II and was taught the guitar by Corbetta. The
   manuscript
   includes
   arrangements of a number of Purcell pieces which date from the 1690s so
   can
   be dated fairly precisely to between 1695-1700.
   It is not known who copied the manuscript or arranged the pieces but I
   agree - they
   aren't particularly idiomatic.
   Still - you have made a reasonably good jub of the ones you have
   recorded...
   There'll always be an England where there's a country lane.Where
   did you
   take the photos?
   Monica
   Monica
   - Original Message -
   From: "WALSH STUART" <[4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   To: "vl" <[5]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 11:54 PM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Three Playford tunes from Princess Anne's "lute"
   book

  I uploaded these three tunes, well known from Playford,  a while
   ago.

  Monica Hall edited them from a more or less contemporary Dutch MS.
   The

  tunes are:Siege of Limerick, Spanish Jig and May Hill.

  [1][6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xFdDoAYmCE

  I think they are really rather difficult. Modern plectrum players on

  guitars, mandolins etc can just play the melody line as in Playford
   but

  these contemporary guitar arrangements are very different. They have

  lots of not-so-easy strummed chords  and lots of ornaments.

  Mr. Isaacs Maggot = Maguet, p.68, which I haven't attempted here,
   seems

  especially difficult, especially around bar 15.

  Stuart

  --

   References

  1. [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xFdDoAYmCE

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   5. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xFdDoAYmCE
   7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xFdDoAYmCE
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: early music in the 19th century

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Well, this just shows how "portable" good music is.
   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --

   From: David van Ooijen <[1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
   Date: Thursday, May 10, 2012 3:22 PM
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: early music in the 19th century

   On 8 May 2012 21:47, Nelson, Jocelyn <[3]nels...@ecu.edu> wrote:

   Did you notice any rhythmic

   or harmonic differences from the original in Coste's arrangements? It
   seems

   appropriate that you are not using inegale in a 19th century
   arrangement,

   To me, it feels like 19th century music. I didn't check with De Visee,
   as Coste is enough for me here. ;-)
   David
   --
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
   4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: early music in the 19th century

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi David,

   I finally got a chance to listen to your Coste arrangements of de
   Visee. Very beautiful guitar, and beautifully played! Did you notice
   any rhythmic or harmonic differences from the original in Coste's
   arrangements? It seems appropriate that you are not using inegale in a
   19^th century arrangement, for instance, and it works especially
   because you play it so well, but it's definitely a different style.
   Thanks for posting.


   Best,

   Jocelyn
   --

   From: David van Ooijen <[1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
   Date: Thursday, May 3, 2012 4:47 PM
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: early music in the 19th century

   On 3 May 2012 22:44, Stuart Walsh <[3]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

   Even better! What is the mic plugged into? Straight into the computer?

   Mixer (Mackie) that I use as pre-am only (no tweaking with equaliser,
   only setting the gain), then into a solid state recorder (Marantz).
   David
   --
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Your site is wonderful, Monica; thank you for all the valuable work
   you've made available to everyone.  I signed up to "follow" your site
   (the first time this old-fashioned guitarist has ever done such a
   thing).


   Shall we make an announcement in the next LSA Quarterly? I'm not sure
   we've mentioned your site since the complete Foscarini's been up.


   Best,

   Jocelyn

   PS: I looked up the exotic "simnel cake." It sounds intriguing, but I
   think I'll stick with dark chocolate. Have a delicious Easter and a
   great rest!
   --

   From: Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 21:58:11 +0100
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage

   I'm overwhelmed with all your good wishes.  Thank you.
   Actually I prefer simnel cake (if non-English members know what that
   is) to
   chocolate bunnies and I have laid in a goodly supply to eat on Easter
   Sunday.Only 36 hours to go now before I can tuck in.
   Monica
   - Original Message -
   From: "Rockford Mjos" <[3]rm...@comcast.net>
   To: "Monica Hall" <[4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[5]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 4:08 PM
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage

   Hello Monica.

   Thank you (again!) for your great and valued contributions!

   You deserve an extra big chocolate bunny this Easter!

   -- R

   On Apr 5, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Monica Hall wrote:

   Thank-you Rob.   I expect everyone is on their Easter Holidays.

   Monica

   - Original Message -

   From: [1]Rob MacKillop

   To: [2]Monica Hall

   Cc: [3]Vihuelalist

   Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:45 AM

   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Monica's Webpage

 No responses to this? I think Monica deserves all our praise  for

   the

 incredible amount of work she has put in, and for which we  have

   free

 access to. Thank You, Monica!

   Rob

   On 3 April 2012 21:26, Monica Hall
   <[4][6]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>  wrote:

 I am pleased to announce that thanks to Rob's good offices my

 webpage has been re-done and improved.   It is now at

 [5][7]http://monicahall.co.uk/  although the
   [6]www.monicahall.co.uk

 version still works.

 In particular I have completely revised and updated my paper on

 baroque guitar stringing.  Originally this was published by  the

   Lute

 Society as a booklet in their series of booklets on various lute

 related topics.  When Rob offered me some space on his own
   web  page

 I did a much abridged version of it with just the texts from the

 original sources with brief comments.

 However the booklet is something that people have to order
   and  pay

 for and I get the impression that nobody bothers to do that.
   They

 just refer to the online version.

 So the new version is much longer and more detailed.
   It  includes

   a

 lot more illustrations from the original sources and the tuning

 examples are in staff notation rather than Helmholz  notation.
   It

 also includes the tables and list of sources from the booklet

 (updated).   I have also been able to add a few more
   sources  which

   I

 have got hold of in the meantime.

 It is now I think the most detailed survey of information  about

   this

 topic.

 Comments and suggestions are always welcome.  In theory I
   can  make

 changes myself although I haven't risked doing that yet.

 Best wishes for Easter, the Spring Festival or whatever you  may
   be

 minded to celebrate at the present time.   It isn't actually

   snowing

 here but sleet is threatened.

 Monica

 To get on or off this list see list information at

 [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

   References

   1. [9]mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com

   2. [10]mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk

   3. [11]mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu

   4. [12]mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk

   5. [13]http://monicahall.co.uk/

   6. [14]http://www.monicahall.co.uk/

   7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:rm...@comcast.net
   4. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   5. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   7. http://monicahall.co.uk/
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com
  10. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
  11. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  12. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
  13. http://monicahall.co.uk/
  14. http://www.monicahall.co.uk/
  15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Mazurka by A. Sychra for seven-course guitar (1820s)

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Thank you for posting; I really enjoyed your performance of this,
   Stuart!
   (Don't mind Monica; it's great to hear the variety of yet another kind
   of guitar, another time, another milieu, etc.  :   )
   Best,
   Jocelyn

   From: Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:13:12 +
   To: Stuart Walsh <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Mazurka by A. Sychra for seven-course guitar
   (1820s)

   Subject: [VIHUELA] Mazurka by A. Sychra for seven-course guitar (1820s)

   Here is an attempt at a mazurka by A. Sychra (who is supposed to have

   invented the instrument - i.e. the seven strings and the G tuning).

   Alexander Batov has kindly translated the title for me: "You'd rather
   be

   ready to dance and merry" and found the original text/lyrics. It's
   about a

   kozak (cossack) returning form the Battle of Poltava. And he's calling

   Marusya to meet him.

   I'm not strong on British history let alone the history of this neck of

   the woods. An extremely cursory glance at Internet sources suggests the

   Russians won, the Swedes lost and teh Ukrainians lost hope hope of

   independence.

   [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLCDyfhJVyc

   Stuart

   You really do play very nicely.  A pity you seem to have abandonned my
   beloved baroque guitar.  When can we have some more Foscarini?
   Monica

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLCDyfhJVyc
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   I really enjoyed these, Stuart. I'm listening to it for the 3rd time
   now; can't help but smile with this music.
   Thanks for posting.
   Best,
   Jocelyn

   From: Stuart Walsh <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2012 00:06:26 +
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] 3 short pieces from the Ulm MS for mandore

   The Scottish, Skene mandore MS is more well known but the Ulm MS of
   French mandore music (of the same time) is very good too. And the
   pieces
   are much more carefully notated.
   Here are a couple of courantes and a gavotte - played on a very small
   guitar with a string length of 37 cms. Perhaps there were at least two
   sizes of mandore: the really tiny (c. 30cm string length), four-course
   mandore (some Ulm stuff, Chancy) , played with a plectrum and a
   slightly
   larger, five course instrument ((Skene, Ulm, Gallot)
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU
   Stuart
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnC0b9w8QyU
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   The only one I was able to access was number four. It sounded
   delicious.
   Jocelyn

   From: Azalais <[1]azal...@gmail.com>
   Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 12:54:37 -0500
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]

   (Apologies in advance if this is too far off topic!)
  Ah yes, one of my favorite instruments!
  The double-sided, wire strung chitarra di pasta  (tuned with a key,
   and
  played with a  primitive form of solid bow):

   [1][3]http://thefrontburner.us/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Chitarra
   -64
  0x468-0040_274.jpg

   [2][4]http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1177004089/gallery_14010_2363_5
   246
  0.jpg
  In performance:
  [3][5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=v7FRfI0kpXo
  and for the luthiers among us:

   [4][6]http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1177004089/gallery_14010_2363_5
   246
  0.jpg
  > But I have never heard about
  > "chitarrina", but of course that does not exclude its existence...
  ;-)
Then you missed something - yummy italian pasta!! [1]
And not even totally off-topic here since the name probably refers
to
the production process: pressing some pasta dough through a wired
frame
(somehow like an oversized egg-cutter) that might remind one of a
harp (->chitarra) :-)
Cheers, Ralf Mattes
[1]

   [5][7]http://www.dececco.it/EN/Egg-Pasta/Specialities/chitarrina-abruzz
ese-all-uovo-399/?Prodotto=159
  To get on or off this list see list information at
[6][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
   References
  1.
   [9]http://thefrontburner.us/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Chitarra-64
   0x468-0040_274.jpg
  2.
   [10]http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1177004089/gallery_14010_2363_524
   60.jpg
  3. [11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=v7FRfI0kpXo
  4.
   [12]http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1177004089/gallery_14010_2363_524
   60.jpg
  5.
   [13]http://www.dececco.it/EN/Egg-Pasta/Specialities/chitarrina-abruzzes
   e-all-uovo-399/?Prodotto=159
  6. [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:azal...@gmail.com
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://thefrontburner.us/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Chitarra-64
   4. http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1177004089/gallery_14010_2363_5246
   5. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=v7FRfI0kpXo
   6. http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1177004089/gallery_14010_2363_5246
   7. http://www.dececco.it/EN/Egg-Pasta/Specialities/chitarrina-abruzz
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   9. 
http://thefrontburner.us/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Chitarra-640x468-0040_274.jpg
  10. http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1177004089/gallery_14010_2363_52460.jpg
  11. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=v7FRfI0kpXo
  12. http://forums.egullet.org/uploads/1177004089/gallery_14010_2363_52460.jpg
  13. 
http://www.dececco.it/EN/Egg-Pasta/Specialities/chitarrina-abruzzese-all-uovo-399/?Prodotto=159
  14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Ralf makes a great case that we can't assume "chitarrino" means
   "guitar" (I must try that pasta sometime), but maybe there's a bit of
   evidence here in what Lex says that shows the 4-course guitar was still
   active in the 17^th century, even in printed music.

   Jocelyn

   Well, Oliver Strunk writes "chitarrino". As far as I know,

   chitarrino, 4 course "renaissance guitar", was not at all unknown in

   Italy in times of Agazzari...

   Hmm, as if there where a fixed terminology at that time ... Thank's to
   those silly humanists writers, from the end of the 15. century on
   writers started to use 'chitarra' for all sorts of stinged instuments
   (plucked). So we have chitarra for 'lute' (Tincoris), harp (Glarean),
   (renaissance) guitar etc. Not to forget chitarrone (literally: huge
   chitarra). It might even be that Sgn. Agazzari wants to make a
   distinction between the chitarrone and smaller (treble) lutes here. To
   limit the translation of 'citarrin[a/o]' to "renaissance guitar" seems
   bold.

   But I have never heard about

   "chitarrina", but of course that does not exclude its existence... ;-)

   Then you missed something - yummy italian pasta!! [1]
   And not even totally off-topic here since the name probably refers to
   the production process: pressing some pasta dough through a wired frame
   (somehow like an oversized egg-cutter) that might remind one of a
   harp (->chitarra) :-)
   Cheers, Ralf Mattes

   From: Lex Eisenhardt <[1]eisenha...@planet.nl>
   Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 17:54:32 +0100
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]

   In the anonymous collection Conserto vago (published in Rome in 1645)
   there
   is a part for a chitarrino a quatro corde alla napolitana, here
   probably
   used for lute type, in plucked textures. Its tuning, with a fifth
   between
   the third and fourth courses, is essentially different from that of the
   chitarra spagnuola. On the other hand, in Pietro Millioni's Corona del
   primo, secondo e terzo libro d'intavolatura di chitarra spagnola (1631)
   a
   four-course guitar is mentioned, the chitarrino, overo chitarra
   italiana,
   tuned like the first four courses of the common chitarra spagnuola. To
   be
   able to play the chords of alfabeto (from the tablature examples at the
   alfabeto chart) on this four-course instrument, one has to leave out
   the
   figures of the fifth course.
   By its tuning, the chitarrino napolitana from Conserto vago does not
   link up
   with the alfabeto tradition, as does Millioni's chitarrino Italiana. If
   Agazzari had a chitarrino napolitana in mind--hand plucked or played
   with a
   plectrum, then there is more reason to suppose that melodic
   improvisations
   were played on it, as they were on the violin and pandora, which are
   mentioned in the same breath.
   best wishes, Lex
   - Original Message -
   From: "wikla" <[3]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>
   To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[4]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
   Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[5]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "Lex Eisenhardt"
   <[6]eisenha...@planet.nl>
   Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2011 4:03 PM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Agazzari guitar [was Re: Capona?]

   Well, Oliver Strunk writes "chitarrino". As far as I know, chitarrino,
   4

   course "renaissance guitar", was not at all unknown in Italy in times
   of

   Agazzari... But I have never heard about "chitarrina", but of course
   that

   does not exclude its existence... ;-)

   best regards,

   Arto

   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:eisenha...@planet.nl
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
   4. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   5. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. mailto:eisenha...@planet.nl
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Santiago de Murcia

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Monica,

   You're not getting old, you're getting wise :  )

   Yes, I think some performers exploit the "popular" idea because it
   sells so well. It's challenging for both performer and listener to be
   more thoughtful about what the performance context really might have
   been. It's such a temptation to make up something especially attractive
   to 20^th, 21^st century audiences.

   But are we sure Santiago de Murcia never went to the New World?

   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu

   From: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 15:58:36 +
   To: Joceyln Nelson <[3]nels...@ecu.edu>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[4]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?

   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?

  I think the sarabanda and ciacona garnered comments from some
   shocked

  Europeans in the 17th century or earlier. Maybe some performers are

  making the most (too much?) of it now to sell CDs, but the dances

  really did seem to scandalize Europeans back in the day. Perhaps
   more

  than choreography bothered them (with the Spanish/New World dances):

  rhythms, instrumentation, topics, maybe even the cultural group the

  music originated from?

   That may be true but I don't think it justifies playing the music of
   Santiago de Murcia or Sanz in elaborate arrangements with massed
   percussion.
   Neither of them ever went to the New World anyway.
   But it goes much further than that.   The idea that because the
   ciaccona was
   originally a popular doesn't mean that anything based on it to be
   performed
   in a popular manner.   Kapsberger's villanelle may have been popular
   songs
   but that doesn't seem to me to justify adding percussion to them as
   well as
   batteries of strummed instruments.   It seems to be fashionable to sing
   everything in a very coarse in your face manner and interpret the words
   in
   the most salacious way.   An example of this is on a CD by the group
   L'Arpeggiata which includes a Ciaccona di Paradiso e dell'Inferno
   performed
   in a way that someone very aptly described to me as "wink wink nudge
   nudge
   style".   It's meant to be a serious dialogue about heaven and hell.
   I don't think groups these recordings really have any insight into the
   sensibilities of 17th century players.
   I must be getting old.
   Monica
   Yesteryear's hip hop?

  Jocelyn

  From: Monica Hall <[1][5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>

  Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 21:42:03 +

  To: Stuart Walsh <[2][6]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>

  Cc: Vihuelalist <[3][7]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>

  Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?

  - Original Message -

  From: "Stuart Walsh" <[4][8]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>

  To: "Monica Hall" <[5][9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>

  Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[6][10]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>

  Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:11 PM

  Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?

  Exactly!   I think this present day obsession with the idea that the

  dances

  were obscene and that being banned gives them some sort of
   instrinsic

  merit

  is a bit wide of the mark.

  Monica, who is obsessed with obscenity and  early dance!?

  You should get out more and read more of the liner notes to CDs made
   by

  groups like Les Otros!

  When I read, a

  while ago, that the early 'sarabanda' had been banned for lewdness
   in

  some

  places, I thought that that was just extraordinary.  And now the
   capona

  too, good grief! I think it would be fascinating to know what they
   were

  on

  about.

  I think they waved their arms about a bit and wiggled their hips.
   If

  you

  have Lute 2007 you will see the illustration on the front cover.
   It's

  on

  my Facebook site too.

  (I've got a book tucked away somewhere which says the same thing
   about

  the

  19th century waltz)

  Sounds familiar.

  Monica

 (I just went to see ENO's production of Castor

  and Pollux in which the artists spent a lot of taking their knickers

  off -

  unthinkable in Rameau's time.   They were actually quite prudish.

  But I

 can see now why Guerau in his Poema Harmonica says something to
   the

 effect that studying his complicated and difficult variations on
   the

 dance pieces will keep you out of trouble.

  Well he actaully says "Use it to banish idleness and raise your
   heart

  to

  God".   But that's the sort of thing that they say in these
   prefaces.

  They

  were very high minded.   How many players on this list raise their

  hearts

  to

  God when playi

[VIHUELA] Re: Radio

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Roman,
   I've been listening for a while now and just wanted to say how much I
   enjoy your music. Thanks for the download opportunity.
   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --

   From: Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@verizon.net>
   Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 12:03:04 -0500
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Radio

   For those have missed my radio program aired in Amsterdam on Monday,
   the audio archive is now available -
   [3]http://www.concertzender.nl/swfplayer2.php?mode=rod&provider=cz&prog
   ram=rod&date=20111205&hour=23&pid=52618
   stream,
   [4]http://streams.greenhost.nl/cz/cz/rod/20111205-2300.mp3 - download
   Enjoy,
   RT
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:r.turov...@verizon.net
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. 
http://www.concertzender.nl/swfplayer2.php?mode=rod&provider=cz&program=rod&date=20111205&hour=23&pid=52618
   4. http://streams.greenhost.nl/cz/cz/rod/20111205-2300.mp3
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Capona?

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Well, the waltz was nasty because people held each other closely while
   dancing. There's even a funny quote from 1799 in Grove about people
   waltzing in the "dark corner" of the room.
   I think the sarabanda and ciacona garnered comments from some shocked
   Europeans in the 17th century or earlier. Maybe some performers are
   making the most (too much?) of it now to sell CDs, but the dances
   really did seem to scandalize Europeans back in the day. Perhaps more
   than choreography bothered them (with the Spanish/New World dances):
   rhythms, instrumentation, topics, maybe even the cultural group the
   music originated from?
   Yesteryear's hip hop?
   Jocelyn

   From: Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Fri, 9 Dec 2011 21:42:03 +
   To: Stuart Walsh <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?

   - Original Message -
   From: "Stuart Walsh" <[4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   To: "Monica Hall" <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:11 PM
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Capona?

   Exactly!   I think this present day obsession with the idea that the

   dances

   were obscene and that being banned gives them some sort of instrinsic

   merit

   is a bit wide of the mark.

   Monica, who is obsessed with obscenity and  early dance!?

   You should get out more and read more of the liner notes to CDs made by
   groups like Les Otros!
   When I read, a

   while ago, that the early 'sarabanda' had been banned for lewdness in
   some

   places, I thought that that was just extraordinary.  And now the capona

   too, good grief! I think it would be fascinating to know what they were
   on

   about.

   I think they waved their arms about a bit and wiggled their hips.   If
   you
   have Lute 2007 you will see the illustration on the front cover.   It's
   on
   my Facebook site too.

   (I've got a book tucked away somewhere which says the same thing about
   the

   19th century waltz)

   Sounds familiar.
   Monica

  (I just went to see ENO's production of Castor

   and Pollux in which the artists spent a lot of taking their knickers

   off -

   unthinkable in Rameau's time.   They were actually quite prudish.

   But I

  can see now why Guerau in his Poema Harmonica says something to the

  effect that studying his complicated and difficult variations on the

  dance pieces will keep you out of trouble.

   Well he actaully says "Use it to banish idleness and raise your heart
   to

   God".   But that's the sort of thing that they say in these prefaces.

   They

   were very high minded.   How many players on this list raise their
   hearts

   to

   God when playing?

   Monica

-- R

On Dec 8, 2011, at 5:58 PM, Eloy Cruz wrote:

Dear Stuart, list

This is from Cotarelo y Mori's "Coleccion":

p. CCXXXVII. Capona (La) (Baile). Dicc. de Autoridades: ^3Son o

baile a modo

de la Mariona; pero mas rapido y bullicioso, con el cual y a cuyo

tanido se

cantan varias coplillas^2.

A very bad English translation could be:

Music and  dance in the way of a Mariona, but faster and noisier;
   to

which

music they use to sing several small coplas.

In a 17th cent. Spanish play, one of the characters says he won't

dance to

that music, because it is "of very bad circumstances", because the

word

capon is used to refer to a man who has been emasculated.

Best wishes

eloy

El [FECHA], "[NOMBRE]" <[DIRECCION]> escribio:

   Hi Stuart,

   I don't know what capona means, and I don't have the music
   handy,

but I

   enjoyed this. I like your tempo.

   Best,

   Jocelyn

   From: Stuart Walsh [1]<[1][7]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>

   Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 20:14:31 +

   To: Vihuelalist [2]<[2][8]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>

   Subject: [VIHUELA] Capona?

   Timo Peedu has edited some Carbonchi pieces (to be found on his

ning

   early guitar page). Included are two short and simple but
   unusual

   pieces

   with the title 'Capona'.

   There are a couple of versions of a very fancy Capona by

Kapsberger

   (including one by Rob Mackillop).

   Any ideas what Capona means?

   Here is a go at the simple ones by Carbonchi. If I have

misunderstood

   the timing or the way it should be played, I'd like to know

(preferably

   in a polite way!)

   [3][3][9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I

   Stuart

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [4][4][10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm
   l

 

[VIHUELA] Re: Capona?

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Stuart,

   I don't know what capona means, and I don't have the music handy, but I
   enjoyed this. I like your tempo.

   Best,

   Jocelyn

   From: Stuart Walsh <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 20:14:31 +
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Capona?

   Timo Peedu has edited some Carbonchi pieces (to be found on his ning
   early guitar page). Included are two short and simple but unusual
   pieces
   with the title 'Capona'.
   There are a couple of versions of a very fancy Capona by Kapsberger
   (including one by Rob Mackillop).
   Any ideas what Capona means?
   Here is a go at the simple ones by Carbonchi. If I have misunderstood
   the timing or the way it should be played, I'd like to know (preferably
   in a polite way!)
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
   Stuart
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUfrieijW5I
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar bridges

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Monica and Rocky,


   My 5-course, made by James Bump in the 1970s and supposed to be "after"
   a Voboam, has holes for the strings, not slots, in the bridge. There's
   not much more I can tell you other than to pass along Dan Larson's
   email address if you'd like. I've never been able to track down Bump. I
   don't even have my guitar with me at the moment, because I have a
   student practicing on it for a December recital.


   Best,

   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu

   From: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 22:14:40 +
   To: Vihuelalist <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar bridges

   Thank you very much for that information - most helpful.   I think my
   slots
   are rather like  yours as far as I can tell.   They go right down to
   the
   table in front but  not at the back.
   I was given to understand with a slotted bridge  the surface area of
   the
   bridge in contact with table was much less than with a modern guitar
   and
   presumably a lute and that this favoured treble strings at expense of
   the
   bass ones.   I was wondering whether this kind of bridge is definitely
   a
   characteristic of baroque guitars or whether it is just a matter of
   personal
   preference.
   How do we tell whether the bridges of surviving guitars are the
   originals?
   It raises quite a few questions for me anyway.
   Monica

   - Original Message -

   From: "Rockford Mjos" <[4]rm...@comcast.net>

   To: "Monica Hall" <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>

   Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>

   Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 9:14 PM

   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar bridges

   My Strad model guitar has triangular cut-outs for strings, with the

   points going down to the soundboard. I understand that the museum

   original has this style bridge, though it is not thought to be the

   original bridge.

   Personally, I have not been very keen on this style -- I would
   prefer  a

   solid bridge which I could re-drill to change spacing if I wanted!

   By "slot" I assume you mean a rectangular-shaped cutout
   running  between

   the strings of a course and continuing to the face of the  guitar.

   Batov's Voboam models have this style which can be seen here:

   [7]http://www.vihuelademano.com/guitars/Voboam/pages2/Voboam-model-

   baroque-guitar.htm

   [8]http://www.vihuelademano.com/guitars/Voboam/pages1/A.Voboam1676-

   guitar.htm

   Some (at least) of the Barber & Harris guitars may have this type of

 slot -- but the web images do not clearly show bridge details.

   The Chambure vihuelas by Dan Larson have the slot-style bridge,
   too.  But

   I do not remember how his baroque guitars are set up.

   -- R

   On Nov 27, 2011, at 1:29 PM, Monica Hall wrote:

   This is just a quick query to everyone who plays the baroque

 guitar -

   about bridges.

   Mine has slots rather than holes which the strings pass
   through  when

   they are tied to the bridge.

   Is this usual on baroque guitars.   Is there any standard

   arrangement.

   Monica

   --

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:rm...@comcast.net
   5. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   6. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   7. http://www.vihuelademano.com/guitars/Voboam/pages2/Voboam-model-
   8. http://www.vihuelademano.com/guitars/Voboam/pages1/A.Voboam1676-
   9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia recording and videos

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   I enjoyed these performances; thanks, Rocky!
   Jocelyn

   From: Rockford Mjos <[1]rm...@comcast.net>
   Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 23:53:36 -0600
   To: <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Murcia recording and videos

   Magnatune now has the Figueroa and Ohlsen recording "Cifras selectas
   de guitarra" (with music by Murcia) in their library.
   [3]http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/figueroaohlsen-cifraselect/
   The duo also has a few nice videos on YouTube:
   Cumbees:  [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?
   v{aAu8SZJgM&feature=player_embedded#!
   Marcha de los Carabineros: [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?
   v=V0IA8IfFBQs&feature=related
   Giga por la C (with theorbo): [6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?
   v=PjdKojawvW4&feature=related
   Enjoy!
   -- R
   --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:rm...@comcast.net
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/figueroaohlsen-cifraselect/
   4. http://www.youtube.com/watch
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch
   6. http://www.youtube.com/watch
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: strumming along with Gervaise

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Stuart,
   I'm interested to see this, but the link doesn't work.
   Not seeing the music, I would think any strumming would be of chords
   made up of the notes of the original chansons, if that's what these
   are. The rules of 4-part harmony as we know them today weren't in
   practice yet in the 16th century, even though there are some
   similarities.
   If the tempo and phrasing makes a strum on every single beat awkward
   and even unmusical, it makes more sense to pluck the melody or bass
   notes of some of the beats (especially the unaccented beats) instead;
   which would make it much more enjoyable and musical, anyway.
   I hope this helps even though I didn't see the music.
   Best,
   Jocelyn

   From: Stuart Walsh <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2011 23:29:27 +
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] strumming along with Gervaise

   How would a strummer strum chords to these tunes composed (arranged?)
   by
   Gervaise in the 1550s?
   [3]http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Gervaise/
   They are strong melodies (Poulenc arranged some Gervaise dances for
   piano - but not these particular tunes). Maybe you just strum a chord
   according to the bass line. It's easy enough to work out what each
   chord
   would be. But playing at speed it would be formidably difficult to
   actually play them unless you were a Freddy Green-type professional.
   These Gervaise arrangements are in four parts and, as it stands, the
   bass is very easy to play as a single note. But really not so easy at
   all when the chords are changing very quickly.
   But it's often said that strummers strummed in these, and even earlier,
   times. And, if so, surely they would have strummed to accompany tunes
   like this. Would they have strummed a chord for each note as dictated
   by
   the rules of four part harmony? Or something simpler - but potentially
   more rhythmic?
   Stuart
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Gervaise/
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Montesardo, London

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Monica,


   I don't have this; I might like to find a copy of this myself. World
   Cat says only Friborg and Riponne in Switzerland own it, if this is the
   same book. No mention of whether pages are missing.


   Are you in London? If so I hope you're safe. That goes for any other
   Londoners on the list. The news makes it look pretty dire.


   Best,

   Jocelyn

   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   nels...@ecu.edu

   On 8/7/2011 1:03 PM, "Monica Hall" <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

   Dear List

   Does anyone on this list have a copy of Montesardo's I lieti giorni di

   Napoli?  I have just discovered that my copy lacks pages 24-25 which I
   think

   includes the song 'O fortunati giorni'.

   If anyone has it would they be so kind as to scan the page for me?

   Many thanks

   Monica

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: alfabeto

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

I was able to get it; thanks for passing this along, Monica.
My French is poor, but this might help inspire me.
Jocelyn





On 7/3/2011 11:07 AM, "Monica Hall"  wrote:

>   Well - it took me several attempts to download as it is very big.   It
>   about mostly alfabeto - and is very technical.   Not an easy read - and
>   I have only skimmed through it so far.   Some interesting pictures in
>   one of the appendices.
>
>
>
>   Keep trying.
>
>
>
>   Monica
>
>   - Original Message -
>
>   From: [1]Martyn Hodgson
>
>   To: [2]Monica Hall
>
>   Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 3:20 PM
>
>   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: alfabeto
>
>   Thanks Monica,
>
>   I tried to open it - got to the page - clicked the link and - nothing!
>   I'll try again later.
>
>   I'll be interested to see if she restricts herself to alfabeto or
>   includes other systems for notating chordal song accompaniment (eg
>   Moulinie's written out tablature)...
>
>   rgds
>
>   Martyn
>   --- On Sat, 2/7/11, Monica Hall <[3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> From: Monica Hall 
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: alfabeto
> To: "Vihuelalist" 
> Date: Saturday, 2 July, 2011, 17:04
>
>   I recieved this information from Aidan O'Donnell about his dissertation
>   on alfabeto songs if anyone is interested.   Haven't read myself
>   yet.   It is in French.
>   Regards
>   Monica
>   Just a quick email to say that my alfabeto PhD is online at
>   >
>   > [4]http://athirdfloorproduction.com/alfabeto/
>   >
>   > It's in French, but there's a good deal on concordances and quite a
>   > few sources in images.
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>   --
>
>References
>
>   1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
>   2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
>   3. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
>   4. http://athirdfloorproduction.com/alfabeto/
>   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[VIHUELA] Re: Pictures

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thank you, Monica!
JN





On 4/20/2011 1:04 PM, "Monica Hall"  wrote:

>   Just as a matter of interest I have uploaded a couple of other pictures
>   of guitars with other instruments.
>
>
>
>   [1]www.earlyguitar.ning.com
>
>
>
>   One is of the Spanish Gonzales Coques family showing guitar with
>   violone and what appears to be a small chamber organ.   Of course they
>   may not be playing together.   I don't know the date.
>
>
>
>   The other is a Portuguese ceramic tile.   Could be pseudo - I don't
>   have any details.   If it is genuine perhaps 18th century.
>
>
>
>   There are pictures if you keep looking.   Whether they are significant
>   or not is another matter.
>
>
>
>   Monica
>
>   --
>
>References
>
>   1. http://www.earlyguitar.ning.com/
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Early guitar image

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Dear List

   Thank you all very much for your replies. Yes, I agree that the image
   is kind of problematic and romantic. This is just for a course-pack,
   but still I will try for the Vermeer; that's always been my favorite.


   Best wishes,

   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu

   From: Waling Tiersma <[2]waling.tier...@gmail.com>
   Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 04:17:30 -0400
   To: Vihuelalist <[3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Cc: Joceyln Nelson <[4]nels...@ecu.edu>
   Subject: Re: Early guitar image

   Hi Jocelyn,



   One of the picture of paintings with a 5-course guitar that springs to
   my mind is

   [5]http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vermeer/i/guitar-player.jpg fro
   m

   [6]http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vermeer/



   I assume - being part of iBiblio - this image is in the public domain.



   Waling

     --- On Sun, 17/4/11, Nelson, Jocelyn <[7]nels...@ecu.edu> wrote:
   From: Nelson, Jocelyn <[8]nels...@ecu.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Early guitar image
   To: "Vihuelalist" <[9]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Date: Sunday, 17 April, 2011, 18:01
 Dear List,
 Does this look like a 5-course baroque guitar to you? I'm wondering
 whether to use this as an illustration of an "early guitar" and
   perhaps
 be even more specific (5-course?), but I wanted to see what list
 members think.
 I need to use a public domain image.
 Here's the link:
 [1][10]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-7536315-love.php
 Many thanks,
 Jocelyn

   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   2. mailto:waling.tier...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
   5. http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vermeer/i/guitar-player.jpg
   6. http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/vermeer/
   7. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
   8. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
   9. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  10. http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-7536315-love.php


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Early guitar image

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Dear List,

Does this look like a 5-course baroque guitar to you? I’m wondering whether to 
use this as an illustration of an “early guitar” and perhaps be even more 
specific (5-course?), but I wanted to see what list members think. 

I need to use a public domain image.

Here’s the link:
http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-7536315-love.php

Many thanks,
Jocelyn






To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: With/Without Bordones

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Thanks for posting, Chris! I'm tending to prefer the re-entrant tuning,
   but I like the bourdons--at least in some passages--more than I thought
   I would. Most importantly, it's fun to listen and notice the
   differences.


   Best wishes,

   Jocelyn

   On 4/16/2011 11:56 AM, "Chris Despopoulos"
   <[1]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

  I've recorded a few pieces now with a bordon on the D course --
   Suite

  by Roncalli, Paracumbe, and Folias by Sanz.  These are compared to

  similar recordings I did without the bordon.  Oddly enough, the
   earth

  did not crack open and swallow my guitar, flaming toads did not fall

  from the sky, and gravity as we know it still holds sway.

  I'm inclined to view the results along the lines of speaking a
   language

  with an accent...  Perhaps the emPHAsis is placed on differENT

  syllABles, but the import is generally the same, and the ability to

  move the listener rests entirely with the speaker regardless of his
   or

  her accent.  I've found that the bordon reveals some aspects of a
   piece

  I may not have noticed otherwise, but nothing earth-shattering.  I
   may

  try to record a few other pieces with a bordon just to be thorough.

  (And I suppose I should try this exercise with bordones on two

  courses...)  For my own pleasure I want to get back to fully
   re-entrant

  tuning, but that's just a personal and possibly temporal preference.

  If you're interested, you can hear the results at:

  [1][2]http://cudspan.net/baroque/

  Cheerscud

  --

   References

  1. [3]http://cudspan.net/baroque/

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
   2. http://cudspan.net/baroque/
   3. http://cudspan.net/baroque/
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Granata

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Michael,


   I'm looking forward to your Baroque guitar chamber music project; this
   is very exciting.


   I would like to chime in my vote to include the continuo figures. Even
   if the figures have inconsistencies (which can mean quite a bit of work
   for you as editor, I know) these are valuable for performers to know
   about, especially if they are performing an ensemble with a(nother)
   foundation instrument, or if they arecomparing this music with other
   editions or even works by other composers.


   One other point is that scholars and performers are often the same
   people in early music (especially true of many on this very list).
   You're right to separate these two audiences for editions in regard to
   some issues such as performance layout and maybe binding, but the
   people who take the trouble to learn earlier instruments tend to be
   especially aware of--and curious about--historical details, especially
   about notation and performance practices.


   Whatever you decide, Michael, knowing your work I'm sure this will be
   an excellent edition on an important topic.


   Best wishes,

   Jocelyn

   On 4/16/2011 4:21 AM, "Martyn Hodgson" <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
   wrote:

  Thank you Michael,

  To give you my views on yr questions (in no particular order!):

  1. I used chamber organ when last playing these pieces - I recall
   the

  organist just used the 8 foot stop.  A harpsichord or theorbo (or
   even

  another guitar be it 5 course or atiorbatto) do not, in my view,

  provide or allow sufficient differentiation between the solo guitar
   and

  the BC. Organo and plucked tiorba  seems to have been a pretty
   common

  mid-17th century pairing in Italy. Incidentally, in this context, I

  think the more likely identification of 'viola concertati' is a

  small bass violin rather than a bass viol/gamba.

  2. BC lines of the time are rarely fully figured and it's part of
   the

  joy and challenge of continuo playing being able to realise an

  unfigured bass. However we should always seek to use any given

  figuring unless there's very clearly something wrong. Thus I do
   implore

  you to insert the few figures there are into your edition. I do not
   see

  what you gain by excluding them and can see much you will loose.

  Incidentally, it really is not only 'scholars' who ask for accuracy
   in

  such things: practical performing continuo players like to see them

  too!

  3.I wouldn't say G's harmonies are especially strange for this
   period

  and place. I'm also not at all convinced when you suggest he didn't

  think harmonically but more contrapuntally - being a guitarist
   brought

  up on alfabeto would, I'd have thought, automatically given him a

  strong harmonic sense.

  Further, just because Rameau's treatise was not published until 1722

  does not mean that composers did not compose tonally well before
   then.

  Indeed, it has been suggested that the emergence of guitar alfabeto
   at

  the beginning of the 17th century was a factor in encouraging a
   drift

  towards tonality. By mid century surely much music was very clearly

  tonal.

  4. Your responses to my questions about some mismatches between the

  guitar and BC part on page 21 are, I'm afraid, incorrect.

  ME - Bar 10 beat 4: first inversion of A major chord ie with C# 6 in

  the bass

  not shown in tablature;

  YOU: *6 Comes on the third beat, though it is really a 6/4.

  ME again: Do you really think it's a F#min chord (2nd invert) here

  rather than a simple A major chord (1st invert) which resolves onto
   the

  D of the next bar?

  ME - Bar 11 beat 4: 43 on a D not shown in the tablature;

  YOU: *Looks like the figures are in error, since the upper part(s)
   move

  5-4, not

  4-3.

   ME again: not an error as you think  - merely incomplete guitar

  harmony but with no practical problem in performance - especially if
   a

  continuo player is realising the BC. It is quite common to find
   these

  two lines occuring simultaneously in cadences of the period - the
   5-4

  is not a harmonic formula but simply the 5th (against a 4-3) with
   the

  root of the next chord anticipated just before the beat.
   Contemporary

  music is full of this.

  ME - Bar 15 beat 4: 65 on an A not shown in the tablature (ditto bar

  17)

  YOU *6-5 are the melody notes (violin and guitar); the full 6/5
   chord

  is not

  represented.

  ME again - the point I was making is that the root of the chord (the
   A)

  is not in the guitar tablature.

  --- On Sat, 16/4/11, [2]michael.f...@notesinc.com

  <[3]michael.f...@notesinc.com> wrote:

From: [4]michael.f...@notesinc.com <[5]michael.f...@notesinc.com>

Su

[VIHUELA] Re: Granata

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Martyn and List,

   Martyn said:

   "I think it would have been usual to employ a small chamber organ if
   any

  realisation was thought necessary rather than the bowed bass trying
   to

  realise the harmonies."


   Remember, though, that the early (17th and early 18th c?) cello played
   chords; it was built differently enough to make chords accessible and
   was considered a foundation instrument for a time. I don't recall
   offhand when this changed, though, and I don't know whether this
   pertains to this music in particular.

   Best,

   Jocelyn

   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   nels...@ecu.edu

   On 4/12/2011 2:54 PM, "Monica Hall" <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:

  Belatedly I got around to listening to Stuart's Granata piece.   It

  works very nicely like this - I love the combination of guitar with

  lute.

  But I thought it might be interesting to mention that the guitar
   part

  only of this piece and several of the others with violin and bass
   parts

  were copied by Castillion into his earlier manuscript B:Lc Ms. 245
   and

  he has attributed them to F.C. i.e. Francesco Corbetta.

  According to my theory these are pieces which Corbetta says he
   included

  in the (missing) book dedicated to the Duke of Brunswick Luneberg in

  order to pay Granata back for his including some of Corbetta's
   pieces

  in one of his books - probably that of 1659.

  A bit complicated.  Perhaps the point is that they can be played in

  different ways.

  Monica

  --

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: a little Granata experiment

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Hi Stuart,

I don't have anything enlightening to say about the publication, but I
wanted to thank you for posting this; I enjoyed the music!

Best,
Jocelyn





On 4/7/2011 3:36 PM, "Stuart Walsh"  wrote:

>Granata's Novi Capricci Armonici Musicali in vari toni per la chitarra
>spagnola, violino and viola concertati et altra sonate per chitarra sola
>1674 has pieces for solo guitar and, at the beginning, 12 pieces with a
>guitar part on the left hand side and then in staff notation (treble and
>lightly figured bass) on the right.
>
>This publication has been discussed before but , as usual, I can't
>remember the details and don't want to plumb the archives. Gary Boyes
>
>http://www.library.appstate.edu/music/guitar/1674granata.html
>
>says that these pieces are for violin, guitar and continuo. I think last
>time the work was discussed somebody said that it might be like some
>lute trios where there is a lot of doubling (e.g. Hinterleithner and
>later in the 18th century, Martino and others).
>
>But I think it was Monica who thought that these pieces are(or might be)
>for violin and continuo, and alternatively playable as guitar solos.
>Anyway, I always thought it would be interesting to hear the guitar part
>with the bass line. So I've had a shot at one of the pieces, the
>Alemanda in E minor on page 20 which is quite attractive as a solo. I'm
>not sure how fast this piece is to go and I'm taking it fairly slowly.
>That leaves bar 8, the concluding bar of the first section, with one
>chord for the duration of the whole bar (or almost). That's a lot of
>space/time with nothing happening. Often in Allemandas, there are some
>arpeggio twiddles for the first two beats and then a strummed chord.
>(Most, but not all, of the later solo alemandas in this publication are
>treated in this way.)
>
>http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/Granata.mp3
>
>So this is for guitar and a lute playing the bass line. I didn't try and
>do continuo because I don't know enough about it and, anyway, the guitar
>is covering the main harmony. The bass does double the guitar quite a
>bit (but there is often a lot of doubling in the Baroque guitar duets
>I've seen). I think it's quite a strange sound. The second bar of the
>second section sounds weird. The clash in the repeat of the second
>section, towards the end is just my mistake.
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: a bit OT: George Rush Sonata for 'Guittar with an accompanyment'

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Stuart,


   I see. Thanks for posting the title pages; that's very informative and
   fascinating, too.


   Best,

   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   nels...@ecu.edu

   On 3/7/2011 5:27 PM, "Stuart Walsh" <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

   On 06/03/2011 23:21, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:

   Hi Stuart,

   I enjoyed this (what I could; my internet's a little slow tonight);
   thanks

   for posting.

   Grove online has Rush as a "guitarist" and listed in the works section
   are

   several works for "gui" which I take to mean as an abbreviation for

   guitar. Also "Elegant Extracts for Guitar." Ronald R. Kidd wrote the

   article.

   Did they mistake the guittar for the guitar? (Pretty understandable, I

   would say). Perhaps Rush himself spelled it as "guitar"?

   Ages ago I put up some title pages of 'English guitar' publications:

   [2]http://www.tuningsinthirds.com/EG/

 Rush used the spelling 'guittar' but others used 'guitar'.  'Cetra',

   'citra', 'chitarra' (and others too , were also used).

   Today, people often use the spelling 'guittar' to refer to the

   pear-shaped, wire-strung, chordally-tuned 18th century cittern. It's

   useful today , but doesn't in any way represent general practice in the

   18th century.

   Stuart

   I hadn't known of Rush before this. And thanks also for acquainting me

   with this meaning of "folly." :  )

   It's a beautiful scene.

   Best,

   Jocelyn

   --

References

   1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. http://www.tuningsinthirds.com/EG/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: a bit OT: George Rush Sonata for 'Guittar with an accompanyment'

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Hi Stuart,

I enjoyed this (what I could; my internet's a little slow tonight); thanks
for posting.

Grove online has Rush as a "guitarist" and listed in the works section are
several works for "gui" which I take to mean as an abbreviation for
guitar. Also "Elegant Extracts for Guitar." Ronald R. Kidd wrote the
article. 

Did they mistake the guittar for the guitar? (Pretty understandable, I
would say). Perhaps Rush himself spelled it as "guitar"?

I hadn't known of Rush before this. And thanks also for acquainting me
with this meaning of "folly." :  )
It's a beautiful scene.

Best,
Jocelyn
-- 
Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
336 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu




On 3/6/2011 2:25 PM, "Stuart Walsh"  wrote:

>The cittern list seems to have withered... Here's a little sonata for
>the  wire-strung  guitar/guittar from c.1765. It's for the guittar but
>to be accompanied by another guittar or violin. Guittars and violins
>don't have a lot in common but guittar pieces (usually sonatas) with an
>accompaniment for either guittar or violin were quite common in Britain
>(and France).
>
>George Rush wrote some operas and other music as well as music for the
>guittar. His Three Sonatas is c.1765. This is the second:
>
>
>Largo
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVUrD8ojxf4
>Allegro
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENss39j-TW8
>Presto
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PL19jxZCE0g
>
>
>The building is known as Cowper's Alcove, an 18th century folly where
>the poet William Cowper and his wife would visit. A wind farm was
>probably not part of the scenic view in those days.
>
>
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Renaissance Guitar Podcast

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Dear Stuart,


   Thanks for your kind words about my podcast.


   And thanks also for your thought-provoking comments. I do think that
   before the mid-16^th century publishing spree the guitar was--and has
   been continuously ever since--a popular instrument that was mostly
   played as an accompaniment to song and dance, rather than as a vehicle
   for the more composed, notated, art music genres that were common on
   lute.


   Strumming is, generally speaking, universally idiomatic in guitar
   playing, and it's especially effective in accompaniment; in fact,
   that's the only way it can be heard in many accompaniment situations.
   And it does more than let the guitar be heard: it emphasizes the metric
   accents for singers and dancers, whereas exclusively plucking doesn't
   usually have the sonic power to do this. I think this is good evidence
   for strumming as a performance practice in past centuries. Plucking is
   also idiomatic; I hope you don't take this to mean that I think
   plucking didn't happen, or that popular guitar styles have all
   strumming and no plucking. Ijust think strumming was strong in popular
   styles because it's so successful for popular functions.


   As for what they strummed in the 16^th century or before, be careful
   not to read "major and minor chords" into my suggestion that they
   strummed; I agree that would be anachronistic. They must have played
   whatever worked best for the songs anddances. Sequences such as early
   versions of the chaconne or saraband are probably not that far off the
   mark, though, since those sequences came from the New World via the
   guitar, according to Esses, Hudson, and others, and they showed up as
   popular guitar sequences at the very beginning of the
   5-courseliterature.


   But I see that you bring up "major and minor" chords in relation to
   these sequences in your following posts. This is really tricky because
   on the one hand common practice tonality wasn't conventional until the
   18^th century. On the other hand, guitarists--and some of these
   sequences--were pushing those boundaries much earlier (they were on the
   cutting edge!). In other words, when you say "major and minor chords,"
   well, yes, there were many triads and with just those intervals, but
   the modal framework was different from common practice, yet in some
   cases similar enough to modern theoretical paradigms to really confuse
   us.


   You wondered what dispositions of notes earlier guitarists would have
   strummed, if not sequences. Secular songs such as chansons and
   madrigals would give guidance for that issue, because those textures
   were often played by some combination of instruments and voice: often
   by one solo instrument or by one instrument with voice (such as the
   last song on my CD and also on the podcast, Tant que vivray, which I
   based on the notes from the original chanson; the added notes are
   ornamental. And I strum sometimes!).


   I don't know anything about guitars before the 16^th century, by the
   way. I'm not saying there weren't any; I just haven't seen anything
   about them. Maybe others on this list have good ideas about that.


   Although I see Martyn has come up with some good evidence for strumming
   in the published guitar literature, I'm glad we have a skeptic on the
   list to remind us that explicit evidence is rather slim.


   Best wishes,

   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   nels...@ecu.edu

   On 3/3/2011 1:50 PM, "Stuart Walsh" <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

   On 02/03/2011 19:06, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:

   Dear Early Guitar List,

   If you click the link below, you^1re on your way to my 16 minute
   podcast,

   which includes commentary and music from my recent CD, Ma Guiterre je
   te

   chante. A transcript of my commentary is available on the site, as
   well.

   This was produced by ECU^1s School of Music. If you have time to
   listen, I

   hope you enjoy it.

   [2]http://www.ecu.edu/cs-admin/mktg/treasured_tunes_jocelyn_nelson_podc
   ast.cfm

   Best wishes,

   Jocelyn

   I enjoyed listening to your podcast (and I do have your CD) and I hope

   you will do more podcasts.

   There is something I'd be very interested to follow up in your role of

   four-course guitar player _and_  teacher of music history! You say that

   the four-course guitar was a popular strumming instrument and I think

   you imply it was a popular strumming instrument before the guitar fad
   of

   the 16th century. This is something that intrigues me and I have raised

   it in the past.

   Monica and Rob and others have suggested that strumming is very old -

   older t

[VIHUELA] Re: Renaissance Guitar Podcast

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks so much, Monica!
Best,
Jocelyn





On 3/3/2011 10:56 AM, "Monica Hall"  wrote:

>Finally managed to listen.  Very interesting and enjoyable.   Hope there
>will be some more.
>
>Monica
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" 
>To: "Vihuelalist" 
>Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 7:06 PM
>Subject: [VIHUELA] Renaissance Guitar Podcast
>
>
>> Dear Early Guitar List,
>>
>> If you click the link below, you¹re on your way to my 16 minute podcast,
>> which includes commentary and music from my recent CD, Ma Guiterre je te
>> chante. A transcript of my commentary is available on the site, as well.
>> This was produced by ECU¹s School of Music. If you have time to listen,
>>I
>> hope you enjoy it.
>>
>> 
>>http://www.ecu.edu/cs-admin/mktg/treasured_tunes_jocelyn_nelson_podcast.c
>>fm
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Jocelyn
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
>> Teaching Assistant Professor
>> Early Guitar, Music History
>> 336 Fletcher Music Center
>> School of Music
>> East Carolina University
>> 252.328.1255 office
>> 252.328.6258 fax
>> nels...@ecu.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[VIHUELA] Renaissance Guitar Podcast

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Dear Early Guitar List,
 
If you click the link below, you¹re on your way to my 16 minute podcast,
which includes commentary and music from my recent CD, Ma Guiterre je te
chante. A transcript of my commentary is available on the site, as well.
This was produced by ECU¹s School of Music. If you have time to listen, I
hope you enjoy it.
 
http://www.ecu.edu/cs-admin/mktg/treasured_tunes_jocelyn_nelson_podcast.cfm
 
Best wishes,
Jocelyn


-- 
Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
336 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Virgil, Vergil, & the usefulness of etymology or bourdon details

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Chris,
   Not parasitic at all, Chris; your posts are really interesting and
   collegial. One of my favorite things about this list is that it's the
   sense of discovery--rather than a college degree--that matters most.
   Best wishes,
   Jocelyn

   From: Chris Despopoulos <[1]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>
   Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 01:51:28 -0500
   To: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>, Joceyln Nelson
   <[3]nels...@ecu.edu>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[4]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Virgil, Vergil, & the usefulness of
   etymology or bourdon details

   I'd like to add my vote for the usefulness of these discussions.  I
   don't have the benefit of a career studying the field, yet I gain the
   benefit of your scholarship.  Parasitic on my part, but it
   significantly helps to inform my approach to the instrument.
   cud
 __

   From: Monica Hall <[5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[6]nels...@ecu.edu>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[7]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Fri, February 11, 2011 2:28:39 PM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Virgil, Vergil, & the usefulness of etymology or
   bourdon details
   That's an interesting summary and very generous of you to say that you
   find
   Lex's and my discussion important as I often feel I am wasting
   everyone's
   time and getting very cross in the process.  The etymology of the term
   "motet" is a fascinating topic in its own right.  But we had better not
   start a discussion on that.
   Best
   Monica
   - Original Message -
   From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[8]nels...@ecu.edu>
   To: "Vihuelalist" <[9]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 6:48 PM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Virgil, Vergil, & the usefulness of etymology or
   bourdon
   details
   >  Dear List,
   >
   >
   >  I listened to an entertaining talk yesterday afternoon on how
   research
   >  worked in the renaissance (it seems research didn't work so well,
   >  according to the speaker, who gave us some good laughs during his
   >  talk). The poet and scholar Poliziano (1454-1494) made a strong case
   >  for the correct spelling of the Roman poet's name, "Vergil
   >  (Vergilius)." His evidence, which was better than the evidence on
   the
   >  opposing side according to the professor giving the talk (such as
   the
   >  poet's spelling preference for his own name), has been ignored ever
   >  since--most of us know the poet as "Virgil." The talk centered on
   why
   >  the truth was ignored and the difference between truth and
   influence:
   >  we consistently sacrifice truth forusefulness and custom, which is
   more
   >  influential. Some classicists in the room did bring up Virgil's word
   >  plays on his own name, and some other Latin and Italian spelling
   >  issues, but people generally appreciated his basic premise: that
   this
   >  sacrifice--usefulness over truth--is eventually to our detriment,
   even
   >  when the truth in the short run seems like it doesn't matter.
   >
   >
   >  Which brings me back to our conversation about etymology. I was
   >  surprised to read Ralf eschew the importance of the original meaning
   of
   >  a style, genre, or technique in musicbecause I happen to come to
   that
   >  particular question from the opposite direction: why wouldn't a
   >  performer or scholar in the field of early music want to understand
   a
   >  term's origins?
   >
   >
   >  "Etymology might be interesting in itself and
   >
   >  important in the study of language, but is of no use in a
   >
   >  terminological discurse. In what way is the fact that the top voice
   of
   >
   >  a polyphonic piece once was considered a texted version of an
   untexted
   >
   >  clausula (and hence named 'motetus' - with words) relevant to the
   >
   >  study of, say, Motets by Marc-Antoine Charpentier?"
   >
   >
   >  We could argue the relevance of understanding the origins of the
   motet
   >  to an understanding of Charpentier's motets, and we could each make
   >  good points (perhaps while entirely convinced the other is wrong).
   >
   >
   >  But I'm more interested in how we decide to explore early musical
   >  techniques and performance practices. If we're brazen enough to
   perform
   >  music of the distant past, every detail and item of evidence we can
   >  find is vital to an understanding of any certain genre or
   performance
   >  practice, even when the final answer doesn't always seem to include
   >  many of the details. That's why

[VIHUELA] Virgil, Vergil, & the usefulness of etymology or bourdon details

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Dear List,


   I listened to an entertaining talk yesterday afternoon on how research
   worked in the renaissance (it seems research didn't work so well,
   according to the speaker, who gave us some good laughs during his
   talk). The poet and scholar Poliziano (1454-1494) made a strong case
   for the correct spelling of the Roman poet's name, "Vergil
   (Vergilius)." His evidence, which was better than the evidence on the
   opposing side according to the professor giving the talk (such as the
   poet's spelling preference for his own name), has been ignored ever
   since--most of us know the poet as "Virgil." The talk centered on why
   the truth was ignored and the difference between truth and influence:
   we consistently sacrifice truth forusefulness and custom, which is more
   influential. Some classicists in the room did bring up Virgil's word
   plays on his own name, and some other Latin and Italian spelling
   issues, but people generally appreciated his basic premise: that this
   sacrifice--usefulness over truth--is eventually to our detriment, even
   when the truth in the short run seems like it doesn't matter.


   Which brings me back to our conversation about etymology. I was
   surprised to read Ralf eschew the importance of the original meaning of
   a style, genre, or technique in musicbecause I happen to come to that
   particular question from the opposite direction: why wouldn't a
   performer or scholar in the field of early music want to understand a
   term's origins?


   "Etymology might be interesting in itself and

   important in the study of language, but is of no use in a

   terminological discurse. In what way is the fact that the top voice of

   a polyphonic piece once was considered a texted version of an untexted

   clausula (and hence named 'motetus' - with words) relevant to the

   study of, say, Motets by Marc-Antoine Charpentier?"


   We could argue the relevance of understanding the origins of the motet
   to an understanding of Charpentier's motets, and we could each make
   good points (perhaps while entirely convinced the other is wrong).


   But I'm more interested in how we decide to explore early musical
   techniques and performance practices. If we're brazen enough to perform
   music of the distant past, every detail and item of evidence we can
   find is vital to an understanding of any certain genre or performance
   practice, even when the final answer doesn't always seem to include
   many of the details. That's why I wouldn't want to teach the 17^th
   century French motet literature to students who haven't been through
   the earlier lectures on the substitute clausulae; in fact, the earlier
   course is officially a prerequisite for the later course at my school
   for just that reason.


   And that's why I find the evidentiary details in the discussion on
   bourdons between Monica and Lex and others on this list important. I'm
   grateful to them for taking the trouble to defend their viewpoints with
   specifics.


   Best wishes,

   Jocelyn

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Polyphony and counterpoint

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Dear Roman, Stewart, Ralf, and List,

   After slaving away at teaching music history students and working in
   tandem with my theory/composition colleagues for around a decade, I'd
   like to say that all the texts and articles I've used in English (I'm
   currently using the Burkholder/Grout/Palisca text published by Norton)
   convey:


   Polyphony is the more general term referring to musical texture with
   more than one independent musical line occurring simultaneously.


   Counterpoint is one type of polyphony, as Stewart says. Counterpoint is
   puncta contra puncta, or note against note, and it describes
   compositional technique in polyphonic texture. What those techniques
   are like do change across time and culture, but this general
   definition, which is based on the origins of the word, holds very well.
   Composition studies would discuss the technique, and not necessarily
   the general term for the texture.


   Etymology is indeed very important; even though meanings evolve, an
   understanding of these terms' origins is indispensible when we're
   discussing historical music.


   There are certainly some different ways to use each of these words
   according to context, but until today on this list I've never seen
   controversy about these general meanings.


   Bestwishes,

   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   nels...@ecu.edu

   On 2/9/2011 3:20 PM, "R. Mattes" <[1]r...@mh-freiburg.de> wrote:

   On Wed, 9 Feb 2011 19:33:21 -, Stewart McCoy wrote

   Dear Lex,

   It is true that some people may use the words "polyphony" and

   "counterpoint" interchangeably, but if there has to be a distinction

   between the two words, one should consider their etymology.

   Why?  How can the etymology of a term help to distinguish two words?
   Words

   constantly change their meaning. Or would you accept it if your local
   bar tender

   served you a bowl of fine pouder the next time you ask for something
   'alcoholic'?

   "Polyphony" means many sounds or many voices, and is generally used for

   music where singers (or instruments playing a single line) have their

   own independent part. It is usually used in connection with early music

   from before 1600 (pre-baroque) - the Age of Polyphony.

   But that's only one use of this term - and it manifests an approach to
   music

   history (epochs and 'greatest composer of ...') that most of us try to
   leave

   behind.

   Even in the small domain of musicology this term has several uses, i.e.

   * Number of voices: monophonic song repertoir vs. polyphonic

   * Individuality of voices: homphonic vs. polyphonic

   * Capability of instruments: polyphonic instruments (would you call

 a lute a 'contrapunctual instrument'?)



   "Counterpoint" means points going against each other.

   No, this is a way too literal translation. In the context of music

   theory 'contrapunctus' needs to be translated as 'note against note' -

   and 'punctus contra punctum' and 'nota contra notam' are both used in

   early sources.

   A point is a

   short, distinctive piece of melody, which passes from one voice to

   another, like the opening theme of a fugue.

   Sorry, but where did you get this from? I've read and studied quite

   some counterpoint treaties (from the 14th centry to Fux) but I never

   encountered such a definition.

   The key word here is

   imitation. If you have two or more voices taking turns to share the
   same

   melodic material, you have counterpoint.

   According to this (your?) definition

   all 'species counterpoint' treaties wouldn't teach counterpoint.

   Polyphony could involve

   counterpoint, but it doesn't have to.

   Yes, but wouldn't that mean that Lex used the appropriate term? ;-)

   Cheers, Ralf Mattes

   Best wishes,

   Stewart.

   --

   R. Mattes -- Systemeinheitsstreichler

   Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg

   [2]r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de

   To get on or off this list see list information at

   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:r...@mh-freiburg.de
   2. mailto:r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Me too.
J





On 1/17/2011 12:10 PM, "Chris Despopoulos" 
wrote:

>   Yes, but I was also getting at the logic of his composition.  He takes
>   your right hand and moves it around in ways that you would never
>   expect.  And he breaks the voices up in ways that do really hide the
>   polyphony... but reveal it at the same time.  It's sort of like a
>   painting that suggest the form more than explicitly outlines it.  If
>   you look at it in a certain way, you see it like a photograph.  A
>   different way of seeing reduces it to loosely connected
>   calligraphy. It's truly amazing stuff, and I can't pretend I understand
>   it.  But I like it!
>   cud
> __________
>
>   From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" 
>   To: Chris Despopoulos ; Stuart Walsh
>   
>   Cc: Vihuelalist 
>   Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 11:43:16 AM
>   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
> Hi Chris,
> I think you're too modest about the clarity of texture you achieve,
>   but
> I agree that
> tablature can be an excellent type of notation; much more useful than
> we
> moderns expect.
> Best,
> Jocelyn
> On 1/16/2011 4:09 AM, "Chris Despopoulos"
> <[1][1]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the encouragement.  I'll say that if you can hear
> distinct
> voices in the mandore, blame the composer.  The logic of his
> compositions, and the way he implies continuity in the voices
>   when
> the
> plectrum can't carry it explicitly is pure genius.  The tablature
> indicates everything -- up and down strokes are particularly
> important.  You could almost imagine an elaborate wind-up machine
> controlled by the instructions and successfully playing this
>   stuff,
> it's that logical.
> Cheerscud
>
>   __
> From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[2][2]nels...@ecu.edu>
> To: Chris Despopoulos <[3][3]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>;
>   Stuart
> Walsh
> <[4][4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
> Cc: Vihuelalist <[5][5]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 7:26:28 PM
> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
> I enjoyed this, Chris. The voices in the Chancy pieces are clear
>   and
> distinct from each other, and it's kind of amazing you were able
>   to
> this with a plectrum. So I think you do show the depth in these
> little
> pieces. Chancy's an interesting composer.
> And I like your strums in the Sanz! Thanks for posting and
>   sending
> the
> link.
> Best,
> Jocelyn
> 
> From: Chris Despopoulos [[1][6][6]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:39 PM
> To: Stuart Walsh; Nelson, Jocelyn
> Cc: Vihuelalist
> Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
> Always one to toot my own horn (or pluck my own strings, as it
> were), I
> have posted some recordings on my personal site at:
> [2][7][7]http://cudspan.net/baroque/
> Two tracks are some old recordings I did on the mandore, and
>   three
> others are on the baroque guitar...  I keep meaning to do better,
> but
> where's the time?
> Anyway, the mandore recordings are of Chancy's Suite #5, and 3 of
> his
> series of 6 branles.  The tablatures are for a 4-string
>   instrument,
> and
> as I understand it, to be played with a plectrum.  At least
>   that's
> what
> I was taught by Didier Le Roux and other members of l'Ensemble
> Gabriel
> Leone (I was *very* fortunate to attend a class that reviewed the
> mandolin.  I never made it past the mandore.)
> In spite of being played with a plectrum, the Chancy music is
>   full
> of
> hidden polyphony.  For the miniature qualities it has on the
> surface, I
> believe the music is vast in scope...  if only I could reveal a
> fraction of its depth and breadth I'd be happy.
> Anyway, for your enjoyment...  Vive le mandore!
> cheers  cud
>     
> From: Stuart Walsh <[3][8][8]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
> To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[4][9][9]nel

[VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Chris,

   I think you're too modest about the clarity of texture you achieve, but
   I agree that
   tablature can be an excellent type of notation; much more useful than
   we
   moderns expect.

   Best,
   Jocelyn

   On 1/16/2011 4:09 AM, "Chris Despopoulos"
   <[1]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

  Thanks for the encouragement.  I'll say that if you can hear
   distinct

  voices in the mandore, blame the composer.  The logic of his

  compositions, and the way he implies continuity in the voices when
   the

  plectrum can't carry it explicitly is pure genius.  The tablature

  indicates everything -- up and down strokes are particularly

  important.  You could almost imagine an elaborate wind-up machine

  controlled by the instructions and successfully playing this stuff,

  it's that logical.

  Cheers cud

__________

  From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[2]nels...@ecu.edu>

  To: Chris Despopoulos <[3]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>; Stuart
   Walsh

  <[4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>

  Cc: Vihuelalist <[5]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>

  Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 7:26:28 PM

  Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

  I enjoyed this, Chris. The voices in the Chancy pieces are clear and

  distinct from each other, and it's kind of amazing you were able to

  this with a plectrum. So I think you do show the depth in these
   little

  pieces. Chancy's an interesting composer.

  And I like your strums in the Sanz! Thanks for posting and sending
   the

  link.

  Best,

  Jocelyn

  

  From: Chris Despopoulos [[1][6]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com]

  Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:39 PM

  To: Stuart Walsh; Nelson, Jocelyn

  Cc: Vihuelalist

  Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

  Always one to toot my own horn (or pluck my own strings, as it
   were), I

  have posted some recordings on my personal site at:

  [2][7]http://cudspan.net/baroque/

  Two tracks are some old recordings I did on the mandore, and three

  others are on the baroque guitar...  I keep meaning to do better,
   but

  where's the time?

  Anyway, the mandore recordings are of Chancy's Suite #5, and 3 of
   his

  series of 6 branles.  The tablatures are for a 4-string instrument,
   and

  as I understand it, to be played with a plectrum.  At least that's
   what

  I was taught by Didier Le Roux and other members of l'Ensemble
   Gabriel

  Leone (I was *very* fortunate to attend a class that reviewed the

  mandolin.  I never made it past the mandore.)

  In spite of being played with a plectrum, the Chancy music is full
   of

  hidden polyphony.  For the miniature qualities it has on the
   surface, I

  believe the music is vast in scope...  if only I could reveal a

  fraction of its depth and breadth I'd be happy.

  Anyway, for your enjoyment...  Vive le mandore!

  cheers  cud

  ________

  From: Stuart Walsh <[3][8]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>

  To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[4][9]nels...@ecu.edu>

  Cc: Vihuelalist <[5][10]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Chris Despopoulos

  <[6][11]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>

  Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 11:52:10 AM

  Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

  On 12/01/2011 16:35, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:

  > Certainly nothing wrong with dances and ballad tunes, as you

  demonstrate.

  >

  > Is the tuning similar to the 4-course?

  >

  > I'm not familiar with mandore literature, and now I'm looking
   forward

  to

  > learning more about it.

  >

  > JN

  >

  >

  >

  Jean-Marie Poirier has a site devoted to the instrument.

  [7][12]http://le.luth.free.fr/mandore/index.html

  It's French, of course but  there is a pdf of an article by the late

  James Tyler from Early Music. Donald Gill and James Tyler have both

  tried to promote the mandore (and the mandolino) and have both
   written

  about them.

  Supposing a tuning with top d (it might be g - or something else)
   then

  a

  four-course tuning would be g-d-g-d (or g-d-g'-d' or maybe I mean
   d'',

  but you get the point!). And a five course instrument would be

  d-g-d-g-d. But on both four and five-course instruments the top
   course

  could be lowered to c, b flat etc. Also the Skene MS has a section
   of

  pieces in lute tuning.

  Stuart

  >

  > On 1/11/2011 2:34 PM, "S

[VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

I enjoyed this, Chris. The voices in the Chancy pieces are clear and distinct 
from each other, and it’s kind of amazing you were able to this with a 
plectrum. So I think you do show the depth in these little pieces. Chancy’s an 
interesting composer.

And I like your strums in the Sanz! Thanks for posting and sending the link.

Best,
Jocelyn



From: Chris Despopoulos [despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:39 PM
To: Stuart Walsh; Nelson, Jocelyn
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

Always one to toot my own horn (or pluck my own strings, as it were), I have 
posted some recordings on my personal site at:
http://cudspan.net/baroque/

Two tracks are some old recordings I did on the mandore, and three others are 
on the baroque guitar...  I keep meaning to do better, but where's the time?

Anyway, the mandore recordings are of Chancy's Suite #5, and 3 of his series of 
6 branles.  The tablatures are for a 4-string instrument, and as I understand 
it, to be played with a plectrum.  At least that's what I was taught by Didier 
Le Roux and other members of l'Ensemble Gabriel Leone (I was *very* fortunate 
to attend a class that reviewed the mandolin.  I never made it past the 
mandore.)

In spite of being played with a plectrum, the Chancy music is full of hidden 
polyphony.  For the miniature qualities it has on the surface, I believe the 
music is vast in scope...  if only I could reveal a fraction of its depth and 
breadth I'd be happy.

Anyway, for your enjoyment...  Vive le mandore!

cheers  cud



From: Stuart Walsh 
To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" 
Cc: Vihuelalist ; Chris Despopoulos 

Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 11:52:10 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

On 12/01/2011 16:35, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
> Certainly nothing wrong with dances and ballad tunes, as you demonstrate.
>
> Is the tuning similar to the 4-course?
>
> I'm not familiar with mandore literature, and now I'm looking forward to
> learning more about it.
>
> JN
>
>
>
Jean-Marie Poirier has a site devoted to the instrument.

http://le.luth.free.fr/mandore/index.html

It's French, of course but  there is a pdf of an article by the late
James Tyler from Early Music. Donald Gill and James Tyler have both
tried to promote the mandore (and the mandolino) and have both written
about them.

Supposing a tuning with top d (it might be g - or something else) then a
four-course tuning would be g-d-g-d (or g-d-g'-d' or maybe I mean d'',
but you get the point!). And a five course instrument would be
d-g-d-g-d. But on both four and five-course instruments the top course
could be lowered to c, b flat etc. Also the Skene MS has a section of
pieces in lute tuning.


Stuart
>
> On 1/11/2011 2:34 PM, "Stuart 
> Walsh"mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com>>  wrote:
>
>> On 11/01/2011 01:48, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
>>> I really enjoyed this, Stuart. Thanks for posting!
>>> Best,
>>> Jocelyn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> I have only one section of the Ulm collection and in that there are 123
>> pieces for five-course mandore (fingerstyle or mixed plectrum and
>> fingers) and a small number for four-course mandore (probably plectrum).
>> So the Skene and the Ulm collections make up several hundred pieces -
>> approaching the size of the repertoire for the four-course guitar. And
>> then there are the Chancy pieces and some other things.
>>
>> Of course the four-course guitar's repertoire is more varied: songs,
>> abstract pieces, chanson settings as well as dances etc and the mandore
>> repertoire seems to be mainly  dances and ballad tunes. Very nice though.
>>
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 1/10/2011 7:04 AM, "Chris 
>>> Despopoulos"mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Thanks...  My instrument is 30 cm, and actually 5-course, single
>>>>strung.  I presume it's made according to historical
>>>> understanding...
>>>>I believe Carlos Gonzales is a historian as well as builder -- he's
>>>>planning a workshop on building ancient Egyptian/Coptic lutes this
>>>>April, for example.  I prefer to use the thin quill of a feather as
>>>> a
>>>>plectrum, as I saw done on the R. lute once.  For as thin and short
>>>> as
>>>>the strings are, it helps to have something equally tiny to set the
>>>>string in motion.  And of course, the Chancy MS is to be done with a
>>>>plectrum 

[VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Certainly nothing wrong with dances and ballad tunes, as you demonstrate.

Is the tuning similar to the 4-course?

I'm not familiar with mandore literature, and now I'm looking forward to
learning more about it.

JN






On 1/11/2011 2:34 PM, "Stuart Walsh"  wrote:

>On 11/01/2011 01:48, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
>> I really enjoyed this, Stuart. Thanks for posting!
>> Best,
>> Jocelyn
>>
>>
>>
>Thanks!
>
>I have only one section of the Ulm collection and in that there are 123
>pieces for five-course mandore (fingerstyle or mixed plectrum and
>fingers) and a small number for four-course mandore (probably plectrum).
>So the Skene and the Ulm collections make up several hundred pieces -
>approaching the size of the repertoire for the four-course guitar. And
>then there are the Chancy pieces and some other things.
>
>Of course the four-course guitar's repertoire is more varied: songs,
>abstract pieces, chanson settings as well as dances etc and the mandore
>repertoire seems to be mainly  dances and ballad tunes. Very nice though.
>
>
>Stuart
>
>
>
>>
>> On 1/10/2011 7:04 AM, "Chris Despopoulos"
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Thanks...  My instrument is 30 cm, and actually 5-course, single
>>>strung.  I presume it's made according to historical
>>>understanding...
>>>I believe Carlos Gonzales is a historian as well as builder -- he's
>>>planning a workshop on building ancient Egyptian/Coptic lutes this
>>>April, for example.  I prefer to use the thin quill of a feather as
>>>a
>>>plectrum, as I saw done on the R. lute once.  For as thin and short
>>>as
>>>the strings are, it helps to have something equally tiny to set the
>>>string in motion.  And of course, the Chancy MS is to be done with a
>>>plectrum as far as I know.
>>>But I have to say, your playing had me fooled...  It sounds like a
>>>mandore to me!  And they are lovely tunes.
>>>cud
>>>  __
>>>
>>>From: Stuart Walsh
>>>To: Vihuelalist
>>>Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 6:19:40 AM
>>>Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
>>>Thanks Chris
>>>I should have said I'm not playing these pieces on a mandore, but
>>>on a
>>>small, single-strung instrument, tuned like a mandore. My instrument
>>>has a string length of 37cms and so is larger (and, no doubt,
>>>easier to
>>>play) than a typical four-course, four-string mandore. On the other
>>>hand, maybe there was a difference in size between the four-course
>>>(four-string) plectrum-played mandore and the five-course,
>>>fingerstyle
>>>(or plectrum+fingers style) instrument.
>>>I knew about the Ulm tablatures from Donald Gill and James Tyler
>>>but it
>>>was Jean-Marie Poirier who pointed me in the direction of the
>>>Cornetto
>>>catalogue.
>>>[1]http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
>>>I think there are three separate tabaltures in the Ulm collection
>>>and
>>>the Cornetto facsimiles are quite expensive. At Jean-Marie's
>>>suggestion
>>>I got Cornetto catalogue, 0073 which turned out to be two
>>>nicely-produced facsimiles.  The main 'book' (there's probably a
>>>technical name for a publication roughly 8 inches by 6 inches) has
>>>music for a five course instrument and uses a couple of tunings but
>>>mainly one (in fourths and fifths, without lowering the first
>>>course).
>>>Like the Skene MS, it has to be fingerstyle or plectrum plus
>>>fingers.
>>>The supplementary 'book' has only a few pieces, all or mainly from
>>>the
>>>larger collection, but now set for a four-course instrument,
>>>presumably
>>>to be played with a plectrum.
>>>Stuart
>>>To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>>1. http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
>>>2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

[VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

I really enjoyed this, Stuart. Thanks for posting!
Best,
Jocelyn





On 1/10/2011 7:04 AM, "Chris Despopoulos" 
wrote:

>   Thanks...  My instrument is 30 cm, and actually 5-course, single
>   strung.  I presume it's made according to historical understanding...
>   I believe Carlos Gonzales is a historian as well as builder -- he's
>   planning a workshop on building ancient Egyptian/Coptic lutes this
>   April, for example.  I prefer to use the thin quill of a feather as a
>   plectrum, as I saw done on the R. lute once.  For as thin and short as
>   the strings are, it helps to have something equally tiny to set the
>   string in motion.  And of course, the Chancy MS is to be done with a
>   plectrum as far as I know.
>   But I have to say, your playing had me fooled...  It sounds like a
>   mandore to me!  And they are lovely tunes.
>   cud
> __
>
>   From: Stuart Walsh 
>   To: Vihuelalist 
>   Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 6:19:40 AM
>   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
>   Thanks Chris
>   I should have said I'm not playing these pieces on a mandore, but on a
>   small, single-strung instrument, tuned like a mandore. My instrument
>   has a string length of 37cms and so is larger (and, no doubt, easier to
>   play) than a typical four-course, four-string mandore. On the other
>   hand, maybe there was a difference in size between the four-course
>   (four-string) plectrum-played mandore and the five-course, fingerstyle
>   (or plectrum+fingers style) instrument.
>   I knew about the Ulm tablatures from Donald Gill and James Tyler but it
>   was Jean-Marie Poirier who pointed me in the direction of the Cornetto
>   catalogue.
>   [1]http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
>   I think there are three separate tabaltures in the Ulm collection and
>   the Cornetto facsimiles are quite expensive. At Jean-Marie's suggestion
>   I got Cornetto catalogue, 0073 which turned out to be two
>   nicely-produced facsimiles.  The main 'book' (there's probably a
>   technical name for a publication roughly 8 inches by 6 inches) has
>   music for a five course instrument and uses a couple of tunings but
>   mainly one (in fourths and fifths, without lowering the first course).
>   Like the Skene MS, it has to be fingerstyle or plectrum plus fingers.
>   The supplementary 'book' has only a few pieces, all or mainly from the
>   larger collection, but now set for a four-course instrument, presumably
>   to be played with a plectrum.
>   Stuart
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>   --
>
>References
>
>   1. http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
>   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[VIHUELA] Tyler¹s Retrospective in LSA Q: call for contributions

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Dear Early Guitar list,
 
I would like to announce our upcoming James Tyler Retrospective in the
next issue of
the Lute Society of America Quarterly. This is a call for contributions
from
all who would like to send reminiscences, pictures, and music.
 
Many of you, like myself, are deeply grateful for the enrichment Jim gave
us through
his life works in performance and scholarship, whether we¹ve known him
personally, only corresponded with him,
or only known him through his works. I welcome material from everyone:
friends, colleagues, and admirers.
 
Due to limited space we might not have room for all contributions, but I
hope that all
who have any desire to express themselves about their memories of Jim will
contact me at nel...@ecu.edu with your
ideas. 
 
We are accepting submissions through the first week of January 2011.
 
With all best wishes,
 
JocelynNelson
nel...@ecu.edu

-- 
Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
336 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu




>




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Wolzien early guitar anthology

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Dear Early Guitar List,
 
I would like to announce the following online
early guitar anthology compiled by Chuck Wolzien, who was my professor
when I studied at
CU Boulder:
 
Early Guitar Anthology I:  The Renaissance c. 1540-1580
by Charles Wolzien and Frank Bliven
Early Guitar Anthology I:  The Renaissance c.1540-1580  is the first in a
series of five online volumes dedicated to guitar music from the
Renaissance,
Baroque, and Classical periods.  A free sample of this 193-page volume, as
well as a download of the entire book (for 10 US$ via PayPal), is
available at www.EarlyGuitarAnthology.com:  it
will be joined soon at this site by subsequent volumes as they are
finished.
 
Written by Charles Wolzien and edited by Frank Bliven, these books
are being compiled and revised from the class handouts, lecture notes,
analytical studies, and tablature transcriptions that were created by the
author in over three decades of college teaching.  Designed for both
college level history classes and private studio teachers, each volume is
prefaced by a short ŒGeneral Background¹ section that:  outlines the
instrument(s) that were played; cites the sources that were used for the
transcriptions or editions; discusses the notational conventions of the
time;
and offers a quick look at the various approaches that might have been
used in performing
this music.  The musical examples in these volumes include compositions
written by the best guitar composers of each period, encompassing all of
the
important genres of the time.
 
Best
wishes,
Jocelyn


-- 
Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
Early Guitar, Music History
336 Fletcher Music Center
School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu


>




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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Sad news

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Dear Early Guitar List,

I’m very sad to report that James Tyler has passed away. I don’t know any 
details; I have recently corresponded with him, and yesterday morning I 
received this heartbreaking email from Joyce Tyler, sent from his own email 
address: “It is with deepest regret that I inform you of the passing of my 
beloved Jim.” I replied with condolences and an offer to help, and haven’t 
heard back from her yet so I don’t know any more than this. 

He wrote the standard reference for early guitar studies, "The Guitar and its 
Music from the Renaissance to the Classical Era" with co-author Paul Sparks, 
and Tyler also wrote the entries on four-course and five-course guitar in The 
New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians and Grove Online. His distinguished 
career as both an international performer and a musicologist, in fact, merits 
its own entry in Grove and other encyclopedias. This is a tragic loss for the 
early guitar and lute community, and the early music world.

I know that you will want to join me in extending our deepest sympathies to 
Jim’s family, and that you will keep them in your thoughts during this 
difficult time.

Jocelyn


Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
506 School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: guitar publications with harmonics

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Thanks very much, Stuart and Roman.
Jocelyn



From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Roman 
Turovsky [r.turov...@verizon.net]
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Nelson, Jocelyn; Stuart Walsh
Cc: Monica Hall; Martyn Hodgson; Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: guitar publications with harmonics

By not much, as you cannot do them on double strings.
RT

From: "Stuart Walsh" 
On 20/11/2010 22:07, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
> Hello early guitarists,
>
> I just received a query: “Do you know the earliest publications for lute
> and/or guitar in which harmonics were used?”
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Jocelyn
>
>
>

According to Oleg Timofeyev:

[Semion Aksionov] "apparently invented the special effect in guitar
playing known today as artificial harmonics" which is explained in a
guitar method in 1819.

But natural harmonics must have predated this.



Stuart




> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[VIHUELA] Re: guitar publications with harmonics

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Hello early guitarists,

I just received a query: “Do you know the earliest publications for lute and/or 
guitar in which harmonics were used?”

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Jocelyn




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: James' video

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Oh my gosh! I didn't know this side of James. Monica, thank you for
   sending the link, and thanks to Peter for further recollections.

   Such a coincidence: this semester I happened to include Still's
   "Afro-American Symphony" third movement (with banjo), Gottschalk's "The
   Banjo" (for solo piano), 19th century American minstrelsy, and some
   comments on the origin of banjo to my music appreciation classes.

   It must be banjo season.

   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu
 ___

   From: Peter Forrester <[2]peterforres...@waitrose.com>
   Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 05:53:41 -0400
   To: <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] James' video
   Many thanks for this, Monica.  Just right for a damp Sunday morning!
   Somewhere in the 1970s I heard James playing banjo with what must have
   been members of the London EMG.  I seem to remember George Weigand but
   am not sure of the others.  This was at the King's Lynn Festival and
   it rather surprised both the usual slightly staid Festival audience,
   and the Jazz fans who weren't expecting James' quite lengthy
   introductions!
   Peter
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/peterforres...@waitrose.com
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: 50 Standards

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Dear List,

I’d like to follow up on this to say that this is a wonderful book; my students 
and I are thrilled with it. Monica is one of the translators, so of course the 
extensive commentary is a great asset.

Jocelyn



Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
506 School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Monica 
Hall [mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 11:18 AM
To: Vihuelalist
Subject: [VIHUELA] 50 Standards

   Dear List



   Gerard Rebours produced this useful book - 50 standards which is a
   resource book for improvising on various popular 16th and 17th century
   grounds.   There is an English as well as a French version.   But some
   people have had a problem ordering the English version.



   This is the link if anyone wants to try.

   [1]http://www.editions-classique.com/ProduitClassique.php?&o=2&r=3&c=4&;
   id=1284

   or

   [2]To contact us

   Monica

   --

References

   Visible links
   1. 
http://www.editions-classique.com/ProduitClassique.php?&o=2&r=3&c=4&id=1284
   2. 
http://www.editions-classique.com/ProduitClassique.php?&o=2&r=3&c=4&id=1284

   Hidden links:
   3. 
http://www.editions-classique.com/ProduitClassique.php?&o=2&r=3&c=4&id=1284


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: frost

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Bill,

   Love it. Thanks for setting this nice poem, which I didn't know about
   before.
   Best,
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: bill kilpatrick <[1]kilpatrickb...@yahoo.co.uk>
   Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 19:48:34 -0400
   To: <[2]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] frost
   i flubbed the last verse a bit and it's a guitalele but ... semper
   5:
  [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOz5W5XOLWs
  [4]http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=billkilpatrick
  --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/kilpatrickb...@yahoo.co.uk
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOz5W5XOLWs
   4. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=billkilpatrick
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Domingo Prat's Diccionario de Guitarristas

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Thank you, Stuart. I think this is the edition my librarian saw, since
   he quoted the same price.

   That link you provided includes "He covered the ground from the
   earliest times, through the Renaissance and Baroque to the classical
   era up to and including the present." which made me curious, but I
   would imagine its value lies in what it says about 19th century as you
   say, and what it shows about perceptions in the 1930s Spain & Latin
   America of guitar history.

   Best,
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Stuart Walsh <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:03:57 -0400
   To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[2]nels...@ecu.edu>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Domingo Prat's Diccionario de Guitarristas
 On 16/09/2010 21:54, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
   > Hi Everyone,
   > My music librarian is pondering whether to buy this, after
   receiving a
   > gift copy of the index. I haven't worked with this, but it looks
   like
   > it would be a good resource.
   > Do others on this list have an opinion?
   > Many thanks,
   > Jocelyn
   > --
   Ophee does a reprint of it for a mere $300!
   [4]http://www.editionsorphee.com/books/diccionario.html
   As I remember, it's a really important source for the history of the
   guitar, but it's from 1934 and I think it's more useful for 19th
   century
   guitar, than  earlier.
   Stuart
   > Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   > Teaching Assistant Professor
   > Early Guitar, Music History
   > 336 Fletcher Music Center
   > School of Music
   > East Carolina University
   > 252.328.1255 office
   > 252.328.6258 fax
   > [1][5]nels...@ecu.edu
   >
   ___
   >
   > --
   >
   > References
   >
   > 1. [6]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.editionsorphee.com/books/diccionario.html
   5. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   6. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Domingo Prat's Diccionario de Guitarristas

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Everyone,
   My music librarian is pondering whether to buy this, after receiving a
   gift copy of the index. I haven't worked with this, but it looks like
   it would be a good resource.
   Do others on this list have an opinion?
   Many thanks,
   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu
 ___

   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: pink

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Thank you for such kind compliments, Bill. I'm very glad you are
   enjoying this music; the repertoire is indeed wonderful music and we
   loved working on it. I will forward this to Amy Bartram.

   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu
 ___

   From: bill kilpatrick <[2]kilpatrickb...@yahoo.co.uk>
   Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 14:35:13 -0400
   To: <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] pink
   jocelyn's beautiful, DEG*pink*!, "ma guiterre je te chante" cd
   arrived
  this afternoon and it's an absolute treat - wish i had an lp of
   same.
  beautiful singing, beautiful playing - great music.
  her renaissance guitar is a surprise to me too - it sounds so simple
  and so complete - makes me think anything more is too much.  mega
  complimenti ... thank you.
  [4]http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=billkilpatrick
  --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/kilpatrickb...@yahoo.co.uk
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=billkilpatrick
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Four c. guitar

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Dear List,

   Thank you for the kind words and encouragement for my CD and videos!

   Yes, I agree improvised embellishment has to do with the genre and
   function of the music, and only makes sense in historically
   well-informed contexts.

   For instance, I wouldn't feel comfortable embellishing most fantasies,
   other than an occasional cadential emphasis or strummed flourish.

   But in regard to those scalar diminutions in many of Le Roy's dances
   that we discussed on this list some months back: I hear those as
   suggested embellishments; the player has many options in those
   passages.

   As for accompaniment: I arranged much of my accompaniment to the songs
   on my CD. I did most of them both as written and also arranged, in
   different verses. In fact, I was still arranging when we recorded, in
   short 10-minute breaks for instance with my pencil and tab, and
   sometimes I even tried new things as we recorded. (Very exciting when
   your singer only has a few hours to record with you before her flight
   home.)

   The written 4-course guitar parts in the songbooks published in
   mid-16th century France have been the subject of some discussion: were
   they meant to be played as written with the singer even though the
   guitar parts have the entire melody? Or was the guitar part only for
   guitar solo and if the singer takes the melody, should the guitarist
   let the singer have it and do something else? I discuss this in my CD
   notes.

   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu
 ___

   From: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:50:48 -0400
   To: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[3]brai...@osu.edu>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[4]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Four c. guitar
   I think you have hit the nail on the head.   The problem with the
   baroque
   guitar is that everyone seems to treat it as fair game for anything
   ethnic/new agey.
   I am inclined to think this is a mistake!
   Monica
- Original Message -
   From: "Eugene C. Braig IV" <[5]brai...@osu.edu>
   To: "'List LUTELIST'" <[6]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; "'Vihuelalist'"
   <[7]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 5:26 PM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Four c. guitar
   > Yes, I agree with all, especially regarding elaborating on brief
   dance
   > melodies or chord progressions.  It's hard to guess what
   improvisation on
   > guitar might have sounded like in the renaissance or baroque era.
   It's
   > when
   > there is an abrupt change of style leaning heavily on
   new-agey-sounding
   > suspensions, etc. that such improvisations can be distracting.
   >
   > Best,
   > Eugene
   >
   >
   >> -Original Message-
   >> From: [8]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [[9]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
   >> Behalf Of Chris Despopoulos
   >> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 12:23 PM
   >> To: Eugene C. Braig IV; List LUTELIST; Vihuelalist
   >> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Four c. guitar
   >>
   >>Having just attended classes on the Baroque Guitar at La Semana
   de
   >>Musica Antigua in Gijon, Spain...
   >>Eduardo Eguez pointed out that the Sanz manuscript is a book of
   >>ensenyanza...  that is, you're learning the pieces.  Most
   certainly,
   >>any player above the beginner level would have taken these as
   >>suggestions, and would have improvised on these themes.  That was
   how
   >> I
   >>took Eduardo's message on that front, anyway.  Yes, there's music
   that
   >>is composed to the fullest extent, but Sanz (at least) seems to
   have
   >>made illustrations more so than compositions, per se.  It may be
   that
   >>most of the existing guitar works are intended to be taken with a
   >>similar grain of salt?  (Still thinking about that...)
   >>I have noticed a relatively recent movement in terms of Baroque
   guitar
   >>performance that tends toward improvisation.  Xavier Diaz Latorre
   does
   >>this wonderfully, I think.
   >>In the same festival I attended a series of classes on
   disminuacion
   >> and
   >>ornamentacion.  Again, the idea was that melodic lines were meant
   to
   >>include the addition of passing phrases from one note to another,
   >>and/or ornamentation -- all at the discretion of the performer.
   In a
   >>word, improvisation.  And again, I notice that players are
   achieving
   >>this today.  Interestingly, we had another set of classes that
   covered
   >>a flame war between Monteverdi and Artusi, where Artusi
   complained
   >> that
   >>Monteverti's dissonances would be fine in the context of
   >> improvisation,
   >>but a serious compos

[VIHUELA] Re: 4-course guitar videos

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Dear Eugene and Bill,

Thanks so much for your kind words. 

I’ll pass these comments along to Amy Bartram, the featured soprano on the CD. 
I’ve told her myself that I think the highlight of the CD is the verse in Mes 
pas where she sings unaccompanied.

Best,
Jocelyn 


Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
Teaching Assistant Professor
506 School of Music
East Carolina University
252.328.1255 office
252.328.6258 fax
nels...@ecu.edu

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of bill 
kilpatrick [kilpatrickb...@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 12:28 PM
To: 'Vihuelalist'
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: 4-course guitar videos

si! ... sampling those samples was too much - couldn't resist - bought
   a copy too.  hope you get rich, jocelyn - m'wha-hahaha.  solo
   instrument and voice is the perfect format for this music -
   intelligent, accessible - just right.  choral arrangements are pleasant
   enough but can sound awfully sweet - lyrics are difficult to hear and
   string accompaniment usually sounds like an afterthought: "oh yeah ...
   (plinkity-plunk) ... and lute."
   great!
   http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=billkilpatrick
   --- On Wed, 21/7/10, Eugene C. Braig IV  wrote:

 From: Eugene C. Braig IV 
 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: 4-course guitar videos
 To: "'Vihuelalist'" 
 Date: Wednesday, 21 July, 2010, 16:57

   The CD is nice too, a tasteful compilation of solo and song:
   [1]http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/nelsonbartram
   As a fan of La Folia, I'm particularly fond of LeRoy's "Mes pas semez."
   Best,
   Eugene
   > -Original Message-
   > From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On
   > Behalf Of Monica Hall
   > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 4:31 PM
   > To: Nelson, Jocelyn
   > Cc: Vihuelalist
   > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: 4-course guitar videos
   >
   > Hi Jocelyn
   >
   > All beautifully played.I'm looking forward to hearing a whole CDs
   > worth.
   >
   > Best
   >
   > Monica
   >
   >
   > - Original Message -
   > From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[4]nels...@ecu.edu>
   > To: "Vihuelalist" <[5]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   > Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 5:23 PM
   > Subject: [VIHUELA] 4-course guitar videos
   >
   >
   > >   Dear list,
   > >
   > >   My university recently posted a series of videos on You Tube. If
   you
   > >   follow this link, you'll see that I have three up there with
   4-course
   > >   renaissance guitar, including "La seraphine."
   > >
   > >   [1][6]http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
   > >   I'm glad to finally post something list members might enjoy,
   because
   > >   I've enjoyed so many videos others on this list have posted.
   > >
   > >   Best,
   > >   Jocelyn
   > >   --
   > >   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   > >   Teaching Assistant Professor
   > >   Early Guitar, Music History
   > >   336 Fletcher Music Center
   > >   School of Music
   > >   East Carolina University
   > >   252.328.1255 office
   > >   252.328.6258 fax
   > >   [2][7]nels...@ecu.edu
   > >   --
   > >
   > > References
   > >
   > >   1. [8]http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
   > >   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/[9]nels...@ecu.edu
   > >
   > >
   > > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > > [10]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/nelsonbartram
   2. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=nels...@ecu.edu
   5. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
   7. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=nels...@ecu.edu
   8. http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
   9. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=nels...@ecu.edu
  10. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: 4-course guitar videos

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Thanks very much, Bill.
   My ECU administrators are the culprits for disabling the comments.
   Looks kind of non-sportsmanlike, doesn't it?

   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu
 ___

   From: bill kilpatrick <[2]kilpatrickb...@yahoo.co.uk>
   Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 13:55:30 -0400
   To: Vihuelalist <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>, "Nelson, Jocelyn"
   <[4]nels...@ecu.edu>
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: 4-course guitar videos
   been a "favorite" for about two weeks now - brava!  wish you hadn't
   "disabled" the comments, however - all set to gush on your behalf. -
   bill
   [5]http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=billkilpatrick
   --- On Tue, 20/7/10, wikla <[6]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi> wrote:

 From: wikla <[7]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>
 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: 4-course guitar videos
 To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[8]nels...@ecu.edu>
 Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[9]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Date: Tuesday, 20 July, 2010, 18:41
 Thanks Jocelyn!
 Very beautiful and so relaxed: "La Seraphine" by Guillaume Morlaye
 is a
 gem!
 All the best,
 Arto
 On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:23:19 -0400, "Nelson, Jocelyn"
 <[10]nels...@ecu.edu <[11]/mc/compose?to=nels...@ecu.edu> >
 wrote:
 > Dear list,
 >
 >My university recently posted a series of videos on You Tube.
 If you
 >follow this link, you'll see that I have three up there with
 4-course
 >renaissance guitar, including "La seraphine."
 >
 >[1][12]http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
 >I'm glad to finally post something list members might enjoy,
 because
 >I've enjoyed so many videos others on this list have posted.
 >
 >Best,
 >Jocelyn
 >--
 >Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
 >Teaching Assistant Professor
 >Early Guitar, Music History
 >336 Fletcher Music Center
 >School of Music
 >East Carolina University
 >252.328.1255 office
 >252.328.6258 fax
 >[2][13]nels...@ecu.edu <[14]/mc/compose?to=nels...@ecu.edu>
 >--
 >
 > References
 >
 >1. [15]http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
 >2. [16]file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
 <[17]/mc/compose?to=nels...@ecu.edu>
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 > [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 <[19]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html>

   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/kilpatrickb...@yahoo.co.uk
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   5. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=billkilpatrick
   6. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
   7. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
   8. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   9. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  10. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
  11. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=nels...@ecu.edu
  12. http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
  13. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
  14. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=nels...@ecu.edu
  15. http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
  16. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
  17. file://localhost/mc/compose?to=nels...@ecu.edu
  18. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  19. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] 4-course guitar videos

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Dear list,

   My university recently posted a series of videos on You Tube. If you
   follow this link, you'll see that I have three up there with 4-course
   renaissance guitar, including "La seraphine."

   [1]http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
   I'm glad to finally post something list members might enjoy, because
   I've enjoyed so many videos others on this list have posted.

   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [2]nels...@ecu.edu
   --

References

   1. http://www.youtube.com/user/ECU#g/c/69CB3D225AB4DC20
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   : )  That is a scary looking picture, but I enjoyed the little bit of
   samples that I heard.
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Stuart Walsh <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Date: Sun, 30 May 2010 12:15:44 -0400
   To: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Corbetta
   Monica Hall wrote:
   >Don't know whether the rest of you have already noticed this but
   Carpe
   >Diem have recently released a beautiful recording of music from
   >Corbetta's 1671 Guitarre royale played by Rosario Conte - the best
   >recording available now Antonio Ligios recording is no longer
   >available.
   >
   >
   >
   >Monica
   >
   >--
   >
   >
   I just looked on Amazon UK. Is it called "Une larme" with a rather
   fierce-looking chap on the CD cover who looks like he's going to bash
   you over the head with his Baroque guitar?
   Stuart
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   >
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: de Visee with basses

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Arto,
   I don't know offhand, but I think Rebours has done a concordance of de
   Visee's works, and perhaps Dunn has written something as well.
   These are beautiful pieces. Thanks for posting!
   Best,
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: wikla <[1]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>
   Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 16:40:00 -0400
   To: <[2]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] de Visee with basses
   Dear flat back lutenists, especially baroque guitarists,
   I've done some de Visee tubings by "Theorbe de pieces" that perhaps
   might
   interest also baroque guitarists?
   In any case de Visee made (or had made?) his guitar pieces to theorbo
   and
   his theorbo pieces to guitar.
   So the following theorbo pieces perhaps have also guitar versions
   (without
   the basses, of course ;-) (and probably also exluding the prelude?):
   Prelude: [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65CI-xbiCSs
   ([4]http://vimeo.com/11928077)
   Allemande: [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpU1ooPd5Pc
   ([6]http://vimeo.com/11989271)
   Courante: [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTRLX5vBSE
   ([8]http://vimeo.com/12080243)
   Menuet en rondeau: [9]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsY-W43XzsA
   ([10]http://vimeo.com/12115778)
   So are there baroque guitar versions of these? Perhaps someone has
   played
   those also to the tubes? Let me know!
   All the best,
   Arto
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/wi...@cs.helsinki.fi
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65CI-xbiCSs
   4. http://vimeo.com/11928077
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpU1ooPd5Pc
   6. http://vimeo.com/11989271
   7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FTRLX5vBSE
   8. http://vimeo.com/12080243
   9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsY-W43XzsA
  10. http://vimeo.com/12115778
  11. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Monica's website

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Monica and List,

   Here's a belated public kudos, Monica, to your "Baroque Guitar Made
   Simple!" on your website. Your commentaries as well as your
   translations of the earlier alfabeto literature are so valuable.

   The point you make in Montesardo (p.3) about the first alfabeto chords
   (A, B, and C corresponds to a I IV V progression) is especially
   interesting to me because of how forward-looking that tonal paradigm
   was in 1606. Do you feel, as I, that the guitarists were way ahead of
   most other musicians in this?

   My two Baroque guitar students and I especially loved the detailed
   passages on technique during our class. They had my 5-course and their
   modern classical guitars while I had my 4-course, so we were able to
   try these out with "the whole family" and see how perfect these
   techniques are for the 5-course.

   For those that don't know, I had two "Baroque guitar as an instrumental
   minor" students the past two semesters once we managed to get it
   approved. Since I've been focusing on my 4-course over the past couple
   of years, I was very happy to hear both my baroque guitar students play
   Corbetta on my baroque guitar as part of their senior recitals. The
   last two semesters teaching them has been fun, and I'm proud of how
   well these busy classical guitar students learned to play the 5-course
   and use such different notations over the past year.

   Thanks to Monica's help and to the whole list for your infectious
   enthusiasm, I never found myself at a loss for exciting issues to bring
   up during class.

   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu
 ___

   From: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 18:27:09 -0400
   To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[3]nels...@ecu.edu>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[4]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Web pages
   Hi Jocelyn
   Any feedback will be welcome.
   Monica
   - Original Message -
   From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[5]nels...@ecu.edu>
   To: "Monica Hall" <[6]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>; "Vihuelalist"
   <[7]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 9:40 PM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Web pages
   >   Monica,
   >   This is so very valuable, thank you for all your great work. I've
   >   already forwarded it to my little Baroque guitar class and the
   three of
   >   us will explore it tomorrow morning together.
   >   Best,
   >   Jocelyn
   >   --
   >   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   >   Teaching Assistant Professor
   >   Early Guitar, Music History
   >   336 Fletcher Music Center
   >   School of Music
   >   East Carolina University
   >   252.328.1255 office
   >   252.328.6258 fax
   >   [1][8]nels...@ecu.edu
   >
   ___
   >
   >   From: Monica Hall <[2][9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   >   Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:03:32 -0400
   >   To: Vihuelalist <[3][10]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >   Subject: [VIHUELA] Web pages
   >  I have now added a big chunk of new stuff on my web page -
   >  [1]www.monicahall.co.uk
   >  It all forms part of my project with the title "The baroque
   guitar
   >   made
   >  simple" and it consists of translations of the instructions to
   the
   >  player from the  guitar books of Montesardo, Colonna,
   Sanseverino
   >   and
   >  Millioni with comments and musical examples and a separate
   section
   >   on
   >  alfabeto songs.
   >  There is a general introduction and then the pages about
   Foscarini
   >   and
   >  Bartolotti follow on.
   >  Any comments and corrections will be gratefully received.
   >  I hope someone will find it as interesting as I do.  The books
   do
   >   throw
   >  up quite a lot of interesting background details.  For example
   >   Colonna
   >  and Sanseverino both dedicated books to the Milanese nobleman
   Conde
   >  Iulio Borromeo  who was related to Saint Charles Borromeo and
   >   Colonna
   >  says he was living in Iulio Cesare's household when he composed
   his
   >  pieces.
   >  There is more to these books than meets the eye.
   >  cheers
   >  Monica
   >  --
   >   References
   >  1. [4][11]http://www.monicahall.co.uk/
   >   To get on or off this list see list information at
   >   [5][12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index

[VIHUELA] Nelson 4c guitar CD

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Dear Friends,
   I'd like to announce my new CD of renaissance guitar music, featuring
   soprano Amy Bartram. It's now available through me as well as at CD
   Baby: [1]http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/nelsonbartram, and will be available
   soon at Amazon, iTunes, and the Lute Society of America. See an excerpt
   from the press release, below.

   Best,
   Jocelyn
   Ma Guiterre je te chante
   16th Century Guitar Solos and Chansons
   Jocelyn Nelson, Renaissance Guitar
   Amy Bartram, Soprano
   Renaissance guitarist Jocelyn Nelson presents a CD of guitar solos from
   16th-century France. Also featured on 9 French songs is soprano Amy
   Bartram, singled out by the New York Times for her "vivid, and
   irresistible, expression."

   Ma Guiterre je te chante: 16th century guitar solos and chansons is a
   recording entirely devoted to sixteenth-century published French guitar
   repertoire including guitar solos as well as rarely heard Renaissance
   arrangements of chansons for soprano with guitar accompaniment,
   performed on the type of guitar that sixteenth-century musicians would
   have used, now known as the four-course Renaissance guitar.
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [2]nels...@ecu.edu
   --

References

   1. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/nelsonbartram
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA]

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   I've got mine and I'm enjoying it, too!
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Stuart Walsh <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 08:19:54 -0400
   To: Lex Eisenhardt <[2]eisenha...@planet.nl>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: [VIHUELA]
   > 'The Lute' 47 (2007) has just appeared, devoted to the five course
   > guitar. Articles on tuning/stringing and notational matters, by
   Monica
   > Hall and by yours truly. It will be available from the Lute Society
   > webshop.
   >
   > rgds, Lex
   >
   >
   Fascinating reading. I'm enjoying all articles.
   Stuart
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/eisenha...@planet.nl
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: lyrics to Guardama las Vacas and Conde Claros

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi David,
   I recommend "Study of an oral romance tradition, the Conde claros de
   montalvan" by Judith Leland Seeger (1982 thesis & 1990 Garland). I
   enjoyed dipping into this book about the conde claros story and its
   variations among different cultures around the Mediterranean and even
   in Latin America, if I'm not mistaken.
   Best,
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: David van Ooijen <[1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
   Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 03:31:15 -0400
   To: "[2]michael.f...@notesinc.com" <[3]michael.f...@notesinc.com>
   Cc: lutelist Net <[4]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>, Vihuelalist
   <[5]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: lyrics to Guardama las Vacas and Conde Claros
   Thank you so much!
   David
   On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 1:49 AM, [6]michael.f...@notesinc.com
   <[7]michael.f...@notesinc.com> wrote:
   > Ah, at last I can make a contribution! Here is a bit of my
   introduction to
   > "Vacas for Vihuela", a collection of vihuela variations:
   >
   > Among Spanish villancico texts of the 15th-16th centuries, probably
   the best
   > known is Guardame las vacas. To a poem attributed to Crtistobal de
   > Castillejo (1494-1550), this boy-girl song began:
   >
   > Guardame las vacas,
   > carillo, y besarte he;
   > si no, besame tu a mi,
   > que yo te las guardare.1
   >
   > Since pastoral love poetry was tremendously popular in the
   Renaissance and
   > beyond, it is no wonder that the text found its way into an English
   > collection of 1600, translated:
   >
   > "I prithee keep my kine for me,
   > "Carillo, wilt thou? Tell."
   > "First let me have a kiss of thee,
   > And I will keep them well."2
   > 
   > 1. Antologia poetica Crtistobal de Castillejo, ed. de Rogelio Reyes
   Cano
   > (Madrid: Catedra, 2004), p. 157.
   > 2. England's Helicon (1600), ascribed to John Bodenham. Modern
   edition:
   > England's Helicon: A Collection of Lyrical and Pastoral Poems:
   published in
   > 1600, ed. by Arthur H. Bullen (Freeport, NY: Books for Libraries
   Press,
   > 1970(?).
   >
   > The translation is, of course, not exact, but you get the idea: a
   classic
   > boy-girl song. There are more verses, but I don't have them handy.
   You can
   > probably find them in the references mentioned above.
   >
   > The romance Conde Claros is considerably longer. I can't give you
   anything
   > truly authoritative, but I did find the Spanish in Wikipedia:
   >
   >
   [8]http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Romance_del_conde_Claros_de_Montalv%C3
   %A1n
   >
   > If you have the Google toolbar (free download), you could get a rough
   > translation.
   >
   > Hope this helps,
   >
   > Mike
   > 
   >
   > Michael Fink, PhD
   > [9]michael.f...@notesinc.com
   > 
   >
   > -Original Message-
   > From: [10]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   [[11]mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
   > Of David van Ooijen
   > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 2:44 PM
   > To: lutelist Net; Vihuelalist
   > Subject: [VIHUELA] lyrics to Guardama las Vacas and Conde Claros
   >
   > I know it's a recurring question, with recurring answers, but please
   > forgive my inability to work with the archives. And, actually, posing
   > the question anew usually brings forth a plethora of additional
   > information. So, can some kind soul send me the lyrics (in Spanish,
   > and preferably with English translation) of the two songs above found
   > as instrumental pieces with de Narvaez?
   >
   > David - grateful as ever
   >
   > --
   > ***
   > David van Ooijen
   > [12]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   > www.davidvanooijen.nl
   > ***
   >
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   >
   >
   >
   --
   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [14]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com
   4. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com
   7. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com
   8. http://es.wikisource.org/wiki/Romance_del_conde_Claros_de_Montalv%C3%A1n
   9. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/michael.f...@notesinc.com
  10. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  11. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  12. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/davidvanooi...@gmail.com
  13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.htm

[VIHUELA] Web pages

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

Ha!  :  )

Jocelyn


I'll certainly be reading it all. When you say "baroque guitar made
simple", do you mean 'the tangled world of Baroque guitar issues' made
simple rather than playing the thing?


Stuart



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Web pages

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Monica,
   This is so very valuable, thank you for all your great work. I've
   already forwarded it to my little Baroque guitar class and the three of
   us will explore it tomorrow morning together.
   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu
 ___

   From: Monica Hall <[2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:03:32 -0400
   To: Vihuelalist <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Web pages
  I have now added a big chunk of new stuff on my web page -
  [1]www.monicahall.co.uk
  It all forms part of my project with the title "The baroque guitar
   made
  simple" and it consists of translations of the instructions to the
  player from the  guitar books of Montesardo, Colonna, Sanseverino
   and
  Millioni with comments and musical examples and a separate  section
   on
  alfabeto songs.
  There is a general introduction and then the pages about Foscarini
   and
  Bartolotti follow on.
  Any comments and corrections will be gratefully received.
  I hope someone will find it as interesting as I do.  The books do
   throw
  up quite a lot of interesting background details.  For example
   Colonna
  and Sanseverino both dedicated books to the Milanese nobleman Conde
  Iulio Borromeo  who was related to Saint Charles Borromeo and
   Colonna
  says he was living in Iulio Cesare's household when he composed his
  pieces.
  There is more to these books than meets the eye.
  cheers
  Monica
  --
   References
  1. [4]http://www.monicahall.co.uk/
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.monicahall.co.uk/
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: charango barroco

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Bill,
   I loved this music, and what a beautiful instrument. Thanks for
   posting.
   Best,
   Jocelyn
   --
   Jocelyn Nelson, DMA
   Teaching Assistant Professor
   Early Guitar, Music History
   336 Fletcher Music Center
   School of Music
   East Carolina University
   252.328.1255 office
   252.328.6258 fax
   [1]nels...@ecu.edu
 ___

   From: bill kilpatrick <[2]kilpatrickb...@yahoo.co.uk>
   Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 10:54:26 -0500
   To: <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] charango barroco
   maestro federico tarazona has built himself a bea-ut-i-ful vihuela:
  [4]http://www.federico-tarazona.com/galeria.html
  ... scroll down mid-page, 5th item.
  you can hear what it sounds like here:
  [5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ5FXk5BFCU&feature=player_embedde
   d#
  as every tip-less waiter or waitress i've ever met says, "enjoy" -
   bill
  [6]http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=billkilpatrick
  --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/kilpatrickb...@yahoo.co.uk
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.federico-tarazona.com/galeria.html
   5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZ5FXk5BFCU&feature=player_embedded
   6. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=billkilpatrick
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini Passacaglio

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Monica,
   You have the seed here of a good paper! (unless it's already been
   done?)
   Best,
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 07:39:05 -0500
   To: Stuart Walsh <[2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini Passacaglio
   A few more thoughts on the passacaglia.
   I spent a bit more time looking at Foscos passacaglie and of course he
   does
   make a distinction between the passacaglia which is in a minor key and
   ciaccona which is in a major key.   The same distinction is made by
   Corbetta
   in his 1643 book although it is not so clear as the pieces aren't
   individually titled.   Gallot - who copied most of them does rather
   inconsistently label them either passacaglie or ciaccona.  Bartolotti
   just
   refers to all his as Passacaglie on p.1 apart from the Ciaccona on p.
   49.
   Not sure what that proves but it seemed interesting.
   Cheers
   Monica
   - Original Message -
   From: "Stuart Walsh" <[4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   To: "Vihuelalist" <[5]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 11:02 AM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Foscarini Passacaglio
   > On the ning site Monica wrote: 'Passacalles literally means "pass
   through
   > the streets".' Interesting. And so you could be passing through the
   > streets purposefully or perhaps just meandering about.At the
   beginning of
   > his book (his collected works, as it were) Foscarini gives the
   'Passacalli
   > sopra tutti le lettere' which seem to be just four bars with four
   chords
   > (not starting on first beat of bar). And, more or less, that's how
   most
   > passacalles I've ever seen are structured: a four bar scheme
   endlessly
   > repeated. (Some in the Gallot MS don't always fit, though)
   >
   > But Foscarini's own examples of the passacalles don't fit this at
   all.
   > They really do seem to just meander about, always hinting at a
   typical
   > passaccalles but never quite being it. Monica has had a go at an
   edited
   > reconstruction of one in E minor. *[6]http://tinyurl.com/y8mvxfd
   (page
   > 17) -Passacaglio Variato sopra l'+*
   > //
   > There is no (easily discernible) repeated four bar structure and no
   > (easily discernible) direction to the music. And it's in two parts!
   After
   > 57 bars the first part ends and second part sort of carries on in
   more or
   > less the same way for another 64 bars. And it's as if Foscarini
   really
   > liked the sound and feel of certain chord changes - especially E
   minor at
   > second position to B minor with a g in the melody on top.
   >
   > I've had a go at the first part. Technically it is not difficult
   piece but
   > I always manage to make a pig's ear of one bit or another and my
   guitar
   > runs out of tone in bars 16-19; it's like squeezing an orange with no
   > juice left. But I suspect a good player could make something of the
   piece
   > and the Part 2 would go yet deeper into the strange little world.
   Maybe
   > the use of repicco and trillo would spice it up a bit?
   >
   > [7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XiJS0GVT5A
   >
   >
   > Stuart
   >
   >
   >
   > To get on or off this list see list information at
   > [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   5. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   6. http://tinyurl.com/y8mvxfd
   7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XiJS0GVT5A
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini Passacaglio

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Thanks, Ed.
   I find Richard Hudson to be another important source on these grounds.
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Edward Martin <[1...@gamutstrings.com>
   Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 19:03:38 -0500
   To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[2]nels...@ecu.edu>, Stuart Walsh
   <[3]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>, Vihuelalist <[4]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini Passacaglio
   Hello Stuart and Jocelyn,
   The Webster Dictionary gives this translation:
   Pas sa ca glia:  noun [modif. of Sp. passacalle, Fr. pasar = to pass
   + calle=street, Fr. callis path
   1.  a:  an old Italian or Spanish dance tune
b:  an instrumental musical composition consisting of
   variations on a ground bass in moderately slow triple time
   2.  : an old dance performed to a passacaglia
   The Harvard Dictionary of Music:
   Passacaglia [It.] or passacaille [Fr.] :  See chaconne and passacaglia:
   Chaconne and passacaglia:
   "Two closely related forms of baroque music, each a kind of
   continuous variation in moderately slow triple meter and with a slow
   harmonic rhythm, changing generally with the measure.  There have
   been many futile attempts to change the derivation and original
   meaning of these terms, and just as many attempts, equally futile, to
   make a clear distinction between them.  Actually baroque composers
   used the terms indiscriminately.  This does not mean that they could
   not be put into more apt use today, but unfortunately modern writers
   have not succeeded in deciding on acceptable definitions and the
   literature is full of contradictory and frequently arbitrary
   statements about how the difference between a chaconne and a
   passacaglia."
   It goes on to say, "There is reason to believe that the chaconne
   originally was a wild and sensual Mexican dance that was imported
   into Spain in the 16th century. The passacaglia was also
   originally a dance or a march.A primitive stage of development is
   probably represented by passacaglia and chaconne in early 17th
   century books for the Spanish guitar, which consists of a series of
   four-measure phrases."
   As well, the Harvard entry goes on to try to distinguish the
   difference between the chaconne and passacaglia, noting that the
   passacaglia is a variation based on a clearly distinguishable
   ostinato where the line can be either in the bass or an upper
   voice;  the chaconne, on the other hand, is a continuous variation in
   which the "theme" is a scheme of harmonies, where the first and last
   chords are fixed whereas the intervening ones can be replaced by
   substitutes.
   ed
   .At 08:17 AM 1/3/2010, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
   >I remember a conversation with Pat O'Brien on the passacalle where
   he
   >suggested that the term is more analogous to our (at least in US
   >English) "around the block" as in a circuit, or loop. He didn't
   claim
   >that was the literal translation, but this would be his idea of
   the
   >connotation.
   Edward Martin
   2817 East 2nd Street
   Duluth, Minnesota  55812
   e-mail:  [5...@gamutstrings.com
   voice:  (218) 728-1202
   [6]http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
   [7]http://www.myspace.com/edslute
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/e...@gamutstrings.com
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/nels...@ecu.edu
   3. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   4. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   5. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/e...@gamutstrings.com
   6. http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
   7. http://www.myspace.com/edslute
   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini Passacaglio

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Hi Stuart,
   Thanks for posting this performance; your effort with this challenging
   music sounds good.

   I remember a conversation with Pat O'Brien on the passacalle where he
   suggested that the term is more analogous to our (at least in US
   English) "around the block" as in a circuit, or loop. He didn't claim
   that was the literal translation, but this would be his idea of the
   connotation.

   I didn't analyze this harmonically, but it does sound like a repeating
   loop to me, albeit with some variation and modulation.

   I also noticed that the passage you mentioned where your guitar runs
   out of tone is in the spot Monica says needed some "recomposing" in her
   notes.
   Monica, beautiful edition!
   Best,
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Stuart Walsh <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 06:02:35 -0500
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Foscarini Passacaglio
   On the ning site Monica wrote: 'Passacalles literally means "pass
   through the streets".' Interesting. And so you could be passing through
   the streets purposefully or perhaps just meandering about.At the
   beginning of his book (his collected works, as it were) Foscarini gives
   the 'Passacalli sopra tutti le lettere' which seem to be just four bars
   with four chords (not starting on first beat of bar). And, more or
   less,
   that's how most passacalles I've ever seen are structured: a four bar
   scheme endlessly repeated. (Some in the Gallot MS don't always fit,
   though)
   But Foscarini's own examples of the passacalles don't fit this at all.
   They really do seem to just meander about, always hinting at a typical
   passaccalles but never quite being it. Monica has had a go at an edited
   reconstruction of one in E minor. *[3]http://tinyurl.com/y8mvxfd
   (page
   17) -Passacaglio Variato sopra l'+*
   //
   There is no (easily discernible) repeated four bar structure and no
   (easily discernible) direction to the music. And it's in two parts!
   After 57 bars the first part ends and second part sort of carries on in
   more or less the same way for another 64 bars. And it's as if Foscarini
   really liked the sound and feel of certain chord changes - especially E
   minor at second position to B minor with a g in the melody on top.
I've had a go at the first part. Technically it is not difficult piece
   but I always manage to make a pig's ear of one bit or another and my
   guitar runs out of tone in bars 16-19; it's like squeezing an orange
   with no juice left. But I suspect a good player could make something of
   the piece and the Part 2 would go yet deeper into the strange little
   world. Maybe the use of repicco and trillo would spice it up a bit?
   [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XiJS0GVT5A
   Stuart
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://tinyurl.com/y8mvxfd
   4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XiJS0GVT5A
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: guitar arrangement

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   This was good music to wake up to; thanks for posting, Stuart. I think
   strumming is perfect for music like this.
   Does anyone know what the folk song is about?
   Best,
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Stuart Walsh <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 04:03:49 -0500
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] guitar arrangement
   RT has been railing against the guitar on the lute list, yet one of his
   latest lute arrangements seems to need a bit of chord brushing. So
   yesterday I re-arranged his lute  arrangement for re-entrant guitar
   with
   a bit of battute and  camapanella. The wise thing to do now would be to
   put it to one side, then review it, then practice it fully. And the
   rash
   thing to do is just bung it on the Internet (rhythmic goofs and all).
   So
   here it is:
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fad6h1cMak
   And here's Roman's original arrangement:
   [4]http://www.torban.org/sarmaticae/images/sarmatica112.pdf
   Stuart
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fad6h1cMak
   4. http://www.torban.org/sarmaticae/images/sarmatica112.pdf
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini (Taste Grata, Alemanda and Cicona)

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   I really enjoyed this. Thanks, Stuart for playing posting this, and
   thanks to Monica, too, for working with this beautiful music.
   Best,
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Stuart Walsh <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
   Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:12:01 -0500
   To: Vihuelalist <[2]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Foscarini (Taste Grata, Alemanda and Cicona)
   Here's an attempt at some of Monica's editions/reconstructions of the
   great man!
   [3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlsqq9FVCc
   Stuart
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   --

References

   1. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/s.wa...@ntlworld.com
   2. file://localhost/net/people/lute-arc/vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGlsqq9FVCc
   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[VIHUELA] Re: Chord I

[Nelson, Jocelyn]

   Monica, you are a gold mine of information even when you're asking a
   question :  D
   I did run across that N alfabeto chord in Sanz recently. Ouch!
   By the way, the chord shape we were talking about (I alfabeto, A
   sounding chord on 5 course and modern guitars, and D on the 4 course)
   is very easy to play as below on my little 4-course as:
   a___
   _2__c___
   _1__c___
   _1__c___
   And then I'm free to ornament and move on from there afterward. I think
   I might prefer the 1-2-3 on a modern classical guitar (which I rarely
   play anymore), though, because of the difference in size and the
   difference in the music.
   Best,
   Jocelyn
 ___

   From: Monica Hall <[1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 09:42:57 -0400
   To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[2]nels...@ecu.edu>
   Cc: Vihuelalist <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Chord I
   Now we are getting even more abstruse!
   The equivalent of chord I in Castilian notation is represented by the
   letter
   P and known as Patilla!  Ribayaz calls it that and both Sanz and Guerau
   have a Passacalles por Patilla but I can't remember whether Murcia
   mentions
   the term.  It is called that because of the shape the notes/fingers
   make on
   the fingerboard.   I think it means "a little plate".
   In the "Arte de la guitarra" of Joseph Guerrero the equivalent of
   Alfabeto
   Chord A (G major) is called "dedillo".  Nobody is quite sure why but
   this is
   probably because the first course is stopped with the little finger.
The
   4-part version of this chord found in Millioni for example has the
   second,
   third and fourth courses unstopped.
In both Sanz and Murcia's tables there is a minor form of chord N
   which
   involves a 4th finger half barre...
   Montesardo certainly does say you should make a trill whenever the 4th
   finger is free - which is interesting in such an early alfabeto source.
   Regards
   Monica
   - Original Message -
   From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[4]nels...@ecu.edu>
   To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[5]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>; "Stewart McCoy"
   <[6]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>; "Monica Hall" <[7]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk>
   Cc: "Vihuela List" <[8]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 12:04 PM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Chord I
   >   Wasn't this the "pedilla" ("little foot") fingering mentioned in
   one of
   >   the books? Sorry I can't find it now.
   >   But just as Stewart says, below, Montesardo says something in
   general
   >   about leaving the left hand little finger free for trills or other
   >   ornaments (I'm going by Boye's translation).
   >   Jocelyn
   >
   ___
   >
   >   From: Martyn Hodgson <[1][9]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>
   >   Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 03:34:56 -0400
   >   To: Vihuela List <[2][10]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>, Stewart McCoy
   >   <[3][11]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>
   >   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Chord I
   >   All, of course, helped by these chords being in a lower position
   with
   >   the thicker frets.
   >   M
   >   --- On Sun, 11/10/09, Stewart McCoy <[4][12]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>
   wrote:
   >   > From: Stewart McCoy <[5][13]lu...@tiscali.co.uk>
   >   > Subject: [VIHUELA] Chord I
   >   > To: "Vihuela List" <[6][14]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   >   > Date: Sunday, 11 October, 2009, 9:13 PM
   >   > Dear Monica,
   >   >
   >   > Thank you for confirming what I had thought was the case,
   >   > that this is
   >   > the standard fingering for the A major chord in
   >   > 17th-century guitar
   >   > books:
   >   >
   >   > a___
   >   > _2__c___
   >   > _1__c___
   >   > _1__c___
   >   > a___
   >   >
   >   > That is the fingering I try to use now. The great advantage
   >   > is that you
   >   > can trill on the 2nd course using your 4th finger at the
   >   > 3rd fret. You
   >   > get plenty of leverage trilling between the 2nd and 4th
   >   > fingers, more
   >   > than you would trilling with the 3rd and 4th fingers.
   >   >
   >   > There are many ways of fingering that A major chord. The
   >   > commonest seen
   >   > in modern guitar tutors is
   >   >
   >   > a___
   >   > _3__c___
   >   > _2__c___
   >   > _1__c___
   >   > a___
   >   > 
   >   >
   >   > That's OK if you have thin fingers, but there is always the