date:20130131

Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:

People will argue that consumers cannot afford the additional hit to their
pocket books. I think this misses the point, since they're already bearing
the price in other, less obvious ways, including monetarily.

Exactly. We often end up paying more than we would if the price was built
in to the product, because we waste resources.

When WWII came along, and there was a huge industrial mobilization
underway for the war effort, it placed a great burden on the US federal
budget. But I believe that all of that expenditure, which was no doubt
wildly inefficient and directed towards all kinds of silly things, ended up
serving as a massive stimulus, and the US did quite well economically after
that.

There was a lot of wasted money. Some of the goods produced, such as
battleships, had little value as scrap after the war. There are two
revealing quotes from the people planning war production. I don't recall
who said them --

In response to a Senator asking whether the U.S. was producing too many
tanks a general said, It is better to make a thousand too many than one
not enough. I have read that toward the end of the war, the U.S. had more
destroyers in the Pacific than the Japanese had airplanes. That was
maniacal overproduction, I think.

Another person writing years after the war said something like: We did not
worry about how much it was costing. We figured the American people were
more concerned about getting their sons and husbands back home alive than
they were about saving money. That was a sensible attitude. If I had been
a millionaire in 1942, I would far rather have lost every penny of my
fortune than lose my son.

The war did cause tax rates to go up to 90% for the richest people, a rate
that continued to 1964:

http://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates

People did pay the dollar cost of the war. The national debt did not
actually decline in absolute dollars, but as a percent of the GDP it fell
considerably. That is the only meaningful measurement. It fell during the
Great Depression, which surprises me. See:

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/charts/policy/debt-to-gdp.html?federal-debt-gdp-ratio.gif

Here is the debt in inflation adjusted dollars, showing that it never
actually declined:

http://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/charts/policy/debt-to-gdp.html?federal-debt-tax-brackets.gif

Large, direct financial costs of WWII were still being paid from 1940 to
1964, with things like the Marshal plan, not to mention the Cold War and
nuclear weapons production, so it is no surprise the debt did not decline.

- Jed

[Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

See:

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2013/01/pg-e-approved-to-buy-power-from-solarreserve-csp-project-with-molten-salt-storage

The molten salt gives this 10 hours of production without sunlight.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

So does a gas turbine :)


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 See:


 http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2013/01/pg-e-approved-to-buy-power-from-solarreserve-csp-project-with-molten-salt-storage

 The molten salt gives this 10 hours of production without sunlight.

 - Jed

RE: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

Isn't the academic view just amazing?  When confronted with malaise about 
Bangladesh treading water in decades to come,  they go all 'chapter and verse' 
with specifics - yet, when asked about paying the bills, they drift off into 
magic and mysticism.  Somehow it will get paid for.  Thank you, Paul Krugman.

War costs for oil? What costs?  Saddam and Qaddafi were entirely willing to 
sell oil freely to anyone who could pay for it.
These aren't 'wars for oil' , they are greedy wars for Empire, triggered by 
NeoCon Crooks and helpful Zionists ( who want the Middle East chopped up into 
manageable pieces).

Major investment houses are saying (BusinessInsider) that alternative energy is 
a disaster as parity with newly found fossil fuels never comes. Jim Chanos ( 
famous short seller) is hitting on such companies.

It is reported that thousands of wind turbines in the US are idle or broken - 
and the cost of fossil fuel backup generation doesn't get counted.

Over at ZeroHedge, you can read the headline that a quarter of US jobs now pay 
BELOW the Federal poverty line.  You think those folks are worried about the 
Florida coastline?

Oh, and trillions of dollars worth of oil/gas may have just been discovered in 
Australia this week.  BP expressed public doubt over Peak Oil predictions.

We need entirely new technology.

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:


 It is reported that thousands of wind turbines in the US are idle or
 broken . . .


Where is this reported? Wind turbines cost $1.3 to $2 million each. I think
it is highly unlikely the power companies leave billions of dollars of
resources idle for lack of maintenance.


- and the cost of fossil fuel backup generation doesn't get counted.


Of course it is counted! The power companies publish their profit and loss
statements. What is that supposed to mean?

It works both ways. Wind turbines cover lost production from coal and
nuclear plants when they are down for maintenance. With today's weather
forecasting, power companies know days in advance when the wind farms will
be at full power, and they schedule fossil fuel plant maintenance
accordingly.



 Over at ZeroHedge, you can read the headline that a quarter of US jobs now
 pay BELOW the Federal poverty line.  You think those folks are worried
 about the Florida coastline?


People would make more money if we were doing something to prevent global
warming. More, not less.

Capital is sitting around unused, and people are unemployed.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

You are right, Chris, mankind is being confronted by a growing list of  
basic problems. Deciding which one is the most important is hard. All  
of them have the potential to cause massive pain and suffering.  What  
is worse, the nature of the problem is too technical and complex for  
most people to understand.  This suggests still another problem. Has  
modern life become too complex for mankind to control?  Are we nearing  
the end when the consequences of technology will overwhelm man's  
ability to respond properly?  Or is this too pessimistic?  I'm not  
suggesting a solution - just something else to worry about.


Ed

On Jan 31, 2013, at 7:58 AM, Chris Zell wrote:

Isn't the academic view just amazing?  When confronted with malaise  
about Bangladesh treading water in decades to come,  they go all  
'chapter and verse' with specifics - yet, when asked about paying  
the bills, they drift off into magic and mysticism.  Somehow it  
will get paid for.  Thank you, Paul Krugman.


War costs for oil? What costs?  Saddam and Qaddafi were entirely  
willing to sell oil freely to anyone who could pay for it.
These aren't 'wars for oil' , they are greedy wars for Empire,  
triggered by NeoCon Crooks and helpful Zionists ( who want the  
Middle East chopped up into manageable pieces).


Major investment houses are saying (BusinessInsider) that  
alternative energy is a disaster as parity with newly found fossil  
fuels never comes. Jim Chanos ( famous short seller) is hitting on  
such companies.


It is reported that thousands of wind turbines in the US are idle or  
broken - and the cost of fossil fuel backup generation doesn't get  
counted.


Over at ZeroHedge, you can read the headline that a quarter of US  
jobs now pay BELOW the Federal poverty line.  You think those folks  
are worried about the Florida coastline?


Oh, and trillions of dollars worth of oil/gas may have just been  
discovered in Australia this week.  BP expressed public doubt over  
Peak Oil predictions.


We need entirely new technology.

[Vo]:Online Cosmic Rays Moscow Neutron Monitor

2013-01-31 Thread MJ



Huh?

http://helios.izmiran.rssi.ru/cosray/main.htm

Mark Jordan

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

I wrote:


 It works both ways. Wind turbines cover lost production from coal and
 nuclear plants when they are down for maintenance.


Also, wind is sometimes more reliable and slower to vary than fossil fuel.
See:

http://www.awea.org/learnabout/utility/Wind-Integration-and-Reliability.cfm

QUOTES:

. . . In contrast to the large, abrupt, and often unpredictable changes in
electricity demand and in conventional generator output, wind output
changes tend to be gradual and predictable. When wind turbines are spread
over large areas, it typically takes an hour or more for a significant
change in wind output to occur . . .

. . . Just over a month ago, wind vividly demonstrated its important
contribution to grid reliability by keeping the lights on for millions of
Texans while over 50 coal and natural gas plants experienced unexpected
outages due to unusually cold weather.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:


 What is worse, the nature of the problem is too technical and complex for
 most people to understand.


In the past, all problems were too complex for anyone to understand. In
1700 people did not even know that oxygen exists, and yet they ran giant
cities, iron mills and so on.

The trend is toward better understanding. We are learning more and more
about our problems, and we have Big Data to account for things. (Big Data
meaning more bytes of data than there grains of sand on all the beaches of
Earth.)



  This suggests still another problem. Has modern life become too complex
 for mankind to control?


In many important ways, modern life is simpler than life used to be, and
more comprehensible. Many things that were completely beyond our control
are now well understood and controlled. Many things that were unpredictable
are now predicted. Such as the weather. In 1938 a giant storm destroyed
Long Island and killed 600 of people because no one knew it was coming.
Last year's storm killed very few people because everyone could see it was
coming.



 Are we nearing the end when the consequences of technology will overwhelm
 man's ability to respond properly?  Or is this too pessimistic?


Much too pessimistic, and totally at odds with the trends of history.

The last 400 years of technological and scientific progress have given us
God-like knowledge and control over nature. There is no reason to think
this trend will not continue. Our ability to respond has increased beyond
all imagination. There is not a single technical reason why we cannot:

* Eliminate fossil fuels and CO2 production, in a generation.

* Reduce other pollution by a factor of 10.

* Recycle most solid waste, with robot labor.

* Transfer agriculture to indoor factories, freeing up land. We could
produce ALL of the plant food consumed by people and domestic animals in
North America in an area the size of greater New York City. By the time we
got 10% toward that goal, the cost of food would be cheaper than it is from
today's outdoor agriculture.

The technological solutions already exist, even without cold fusion. We
lack only the will and the imagination to use them. All of the
environmental problems we face -- and all poverty and lack of education --
are caused by human failings. By foolish greed, fear, politics and lack of
imagination. Science and engineering have not failed us. We have failed to
use the fruits of our imagination. We have failed to use people's talents
and skills.

Since we managed to solve countless problems in the past, I am certain we
can solve these problems now. I am not sure we *will* solve them, but I am
sure that we can.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100



On Jan 31, 2013, at 8:57 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:


Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

What is worse, the nature of the problem is too technical and  
complex for most people to understand.


In the past, all problems were too complex for anyone to understand.  
In 1700 people did not even know that oxygen exists, and yet they  
ran giant cities, iron mills and so on.


That is true Jed, but the people making the decisions then were not  
the ordinary people. The decision makers were generally educated and  
were the most informed of the population. Now the ordinary person with  
their limited education elects people of equal ignorance to make  
decisions, at least in the US.


The trend is toward better understanding. We are learning more and  
more about our problems, and we have Big Data to account for things.  
(Big Data meaning more bytes of data than there grains of sand on  
all the beaches of Earth.)


Yes, a lot more information is available. Unfortunately, it is too  
much for most people to acquire. Even in the CF field, most people  
have no awareness about all that is known. When the time comes to make  
basic decisions about how this phenomenon is developed, you can be  
sure most of the understanding will be ignored, as is presently the  
case.



 This suggests still another problem. Has modern life become too  
complex for mankind to control?


In many important ways, modern life is simpler than life used to be,  
and more comprehensible.


For you maybe. I once could take a car apart and reassemble it. Now I  
have no idea how a car functions and cannot even make minor repairs.   
Have you ever tried to repair a computer? Life is simpler only because  
automatic controls keep the house at constant temperature, I can buy  
fresh food in all seasons, and I do not have to leave the house to be  
entertained.  However, if the power goes off, I'm totally lost. If I  
lived in a high-rise apartment in a city, I would be trapped.  The  
storm Sandy showed just how essential this one energy is to modern  
civilization.  We are putting an increasing number of eggs in one  
basket, which makes life simpler as long is it functions as expected.


Many things that were completely beyond our control are now well  
understood and controlled. Many things that were unpredictable are  
now predicted.


Yes, many things can be predicted. The problem is getting people to  
respond to the predictions.


Such as the weather. In 1938 a giant storm destroyed Long Island and  
killed 600 of people because no one knew it was coming. Last year's  
storm killed very few people because everyone could see it was coming.


Being able to see the weather from space has made a big difference.  
Fewer people die, which is good. Nevertheless, people build homes  
where they will be flooded or blown away even when this fate is certain.



Are we nearing the end when the consequences of technology will  
overwhelm man's ability to respond properly?  Or is this too  
pessimistic?


Much too pessimistic, and totally at odds with the trends of history.


Which trends?  Yes, mankind in local areas has advanced and in other  
areas has regressed. It all depends on where you live.


The last 400 years of technological and scientific progress have  
given us God-like knowledge and control over nature.


That is true. But as they say, power creates arrogant, God-like power  
creates God-like arrogance.


There is no reason to think this trend will not continue. Our  
ability to respond has increased beyond all imagination. There is  
not a single technical reason why we cannot:


The technical reason is in the human brain and its limitations. We  
have amazing tools and understanding. Our brain applies these tools  
and understanding. I'm observing that most brains do not have the  
ability to do this without causing problems.  Take the mortgage melt  
down in 2008 and following, do you think any intelligence was used by  
the financial industry. Yet these people almost collapsed the  
financial system of the West, which has led to the present financial  
situation.  Stupid people now have the power to stop civilization in  
its tracks.


* Eliminate fossil fuels and CO2 production, in a generation.


You are assuming that CF is accepted and it actually works as expected.


* Reduce other pollution by a factor of 10.


Yes, reduced pollution is possible in some areas but not in all.  As  
long as oil is extracted and transported, it will produce local  
pollution. As long as fission power is used, it will create local  
pollution. These are obvious predictions you ignore.


* Recycle most solid waste, with robot labor.


I agree, this is being done increasingly.


* Transfer agriculture to indoor factories, freeing up land. We  
could produce ALL of the plant food consumed by people and domestic  
animals in North America in an area the size of greater New York  
City. By the time we got 10% toward that goal, the cost of

RE: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

Current headline at BusinessInsider : 80% of French Think Their Country Is 
Bankrupt.

Clearly, these suffering people would benefit from more global warming 
solutions.  Likewise the growing number of Spanish people now living on the 
street. Or the British people who are burning second hand books to keep warm.

Utililies will use whatever source is cheapest.  Alternative energy types are 
demanding demotion bonds be posted so that the embarrasment of dead windmills 
can be stopped. Nat gas supplies are killing hopes of alternative energy parity 
and Wall Street knows it.

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:

So does a gas turbine :)


Yes, but it costs $225 per hour in natural gas. I think. ($1.50/MHW?)

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Online Cosmic Rays Moscow Neutron Monitor

2013-01-31 Thread Arnaud Kodeck

What has happened in Moscow?

I don't understand the percentage. What does this mean?

It has never been so high for the last 2 years, but other spikes occurred,
even higher. 

Arnaud
 -Original Message-
 From: MJ [mailto:feli...@gmail.com]
 Sent: jeudi 31 janvier 2013 16:30
 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Subject: [Vo]:Online Cosmic Rays Moscow Neutron Monitor
 
 
  Huh?
 
  http://helios.izmiran.rssi.ru/cosray/main.htm
 
  Mark Jordan

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

Yes,

But it also costs approx. 1/5 capital for a gas turbine of Same MW.  We
will also wait to see how long 375,000 mirrors/motors last in the wind/dust
swept desert

You forgot the fuel cost for cleaning mirrors with farm tractors and
squeegies and pumping mirror wash water from...where? I estimate about 50
farm tractors running all month long.  By the time they get all the mirrors
washed it will be time to wash again :)

I am also anxious to see how a utility scale boiler likes to cycle up/down
with the weather/sunlight and thermal cycling will have on its lifetime.
 Of course I am an engineer and I have to think about these realties.

Otherwise, Jed, I agree with you.

Stewart






On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 12:47 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote:

 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:

 So does a gas turbine :)


 Yes, but it costs $225 per hour in natural gas. I think. ($1.50/MHW?)

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:


 Clearly, these suffering people would benefit from more global warming
 solutions.  Likewise the growing number of Spanish people now living on the
 street. Or the British people who are burning second hand books to keep
 warm.


I doubt they are burning books, but in any case these problems are caused
by lack of work and bad government policy, not by lack of money or
resources. If the UK were to invest more in alternative energy it would
help employ more people and it would lessen this problem, not make it worse.



 Nat gas supplies are killing hopes of alternative energy parity and Wall
 Street knows it.


I do not think much of Wall Street's wisdom, given the 2008 crash and the
fact that not a single industrial corporation has invested in cold fusion.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:


 That is true Jed, but the people making the decisions then were not the
 ordinary people. The decision makers were generally educated and were the
 most informed of the population.


That is true now, as well. Furthermore, people in the past often made
dreadful mistakes. See, for example, the book British Butchers and
Bunglers of World War One.



 Now the ordinary person with their limited education elects people of
 equal ignorance to make decisions, at least in the US.


That has not changed since Colonial times.



 Which trends?  Yes, mankind in local areas has advanced and in other areas
 has regressed. It all depends on where you live.


Life has improved just about everywhere compared to 100 years ago, or 200
years ago. The long term trends are good.



 That is true. But as they say, power creates arrogant, God-like power
 creates God-like arrogance.


Mankind has never lacked arrogance. If anything, I believe it correlates
with ignorance.



 Stupid people now have the power to stop civilization in its tracks.


They have always had this power, and they often did stop it in its tracks.
See the book I mentioned, British Butchers . . . Here is a list of
recent accidents caused by stupid people who made simple mistakes that
might easily have been prevented:

Destruction of the Three Mile Island reactor (1979)
Challenger explosion (1986)
Hubble telescope mirror shaped wrong (1990)
Destruction of the Connecticut Yankee reactor (1997)
Intelligence estimates that there were WMD in Iraq (2003)
Costa Concordia shipwreck (2011)



 * Eliminate fossil fuels and CO2 production, in a generation.


 You are assuming that CF is accepted and it actually works as expected.


No, fossil fuels could be eliminated even without cold fusion. If we had
begun serious efforts in 1980 they would be gone now.



 * Reduce other pollution by a factor of 10.


 Yes, reduced pollution is possible in some areas but not in all.  As long
 as oil is extracted and transported, it will produce local pollution. As
 long as fission power is used, it will create local pollution. These are
 obvious predictions you ignore.


I do not ignore them. I said that we can eliminate oil. For transportation
we can replace it with synthetic liquid fuel, or hydrogen, which causes
little pollution.



 However, a lot of food is used for industrial purposes to make plastic
 and industrial chemicals. Ethanol is one obvious example.


Ethanol is an energy sink. It takes more fossil fuel to make it than you
get out of it. It is a gift to OPEC.

The technological solutions already exist, even without cold fusion. We
 lack only the will and the imagination to use them.


 Yes, that is EXACTLY my point. The problem is in the human brain.


The human brain has not changed. If we could overcome problems in the past,
it stands to reason we can overcome them now.



 The problem is not limitations of technology - we are seeing the
 limitations of the brain.


Those limitations have not changed. They were overcome in the past and they
can be overcome now. People are no better or worse than they ever were.
They are not smarter or stupider. Human nature does not change. People are
domesticated primates, capable of an unthinkably broad range of behavior.
We are noble in reason; infinite in faculty; in apprehension like a god.
The paragon of animals!



 We have failed to use the fruits of our imagination. We have failed to use
 people's talents and skills.


 Yes, and how can this problem be solved?


By the same methods we solved it in the past. By demonstrating technology,
publishing, and persuasion. And by luck.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:

But it also costs approx. 1/5 capital for a gas turbine of Same MW.


That is true! But the cost is falling rapidly, and it would fall a lot more
with greater economy of scale.



  We will also wait to see how long 375,000 mirrors/motors last in the
 wind/dust swept desert


They have been building these things for 40 years in the U.S., Israel,
Spain and elsewhere. They know how the mirrors perform in harsh
environments.



 You forgot the fuel cost for cleaning mirrors with farm tractors and
 squeegies and pumping mirror wash water from...where? I estimate about 50
 farm tractors running all month long.


They use robots. It takes only a tiny fraction of the output power, far
less than equivalent overhead at a fossil fuel or nuclear plant. It takes
very little water. I did not forget this, and neither did the people who
design and run these plants.

I believe there are ~1.5 GW of CSP installed worldwide. That is only a
small contribution to total energy production, but it means that engineers
have many years of hands-on experience with large scale installations.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

That's right, I forgot about those robots.  Jed do you have the company
address I can order those through?  I need a couple around my yard and one
to perform my wife's honey do list.

I am a Chemical Engineer, I spent 2 1/2 years of my life helping design the
largest operating industrial solar thermal plant in the World.

Last time I checked, the mirror washing robots looked like the photo on the
linked page.  Let me know if you have a photo of the newer model.  I grew
up on a farm so I recognize that model robot.

http://www.getreallist.com/solar-heavy-oil-recovery.html

Love You Man

Stewart
Darkmattersalot.com





On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:00 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:

 But it also costs approx. 1/5 capital for a gas turbine of Same MW.


 That is true! But the cost is falling rapidly, and it would fall a lot
 more with greater economy of scale.



  We will also wait to see how long 375,000 mirrors/motors last in the
 wind/dust swept desert


 They have been building these things for 40 years in the U.S., Israel,
 Spain and elsewhere. They know how the mirrors perform in harsh
 environments.



 You forgot the fuel cost for cleaning mirrors with farm tractors and
 squeegies and pumping mirror wash water from...where? I estimate about 50
 farm tractors running all month long.


 They use robots. It takes only a tiny fraction of the output power, far
 less than equivalent overhead at a fossil fuel or nuclear plant. It takes
 very little water. I did not forget this, and neither did the people who
 design and run these plants.

 I believe there are ~1.5 GW of CSP installed worldwide. That is only a
 small contribution to total energy production, but it means that engineers
 have many years of hands-on experience with large scale installations.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:


 I am a Chemical Engineer, I spent 2 1/2 years of my life helping design
 the largest operating industrial solar thermal plant in the World.


Then surely you know that modern ones do not call for people driving around
on tractors washing the mirrors.

Here is an article about a mobile CSP cleaning robot:

http://social.csptoday.com/technology/hector-meet-future-solar-field-mirror-washing

Look up HECTOR.pdf

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

Jed,

Very Cool Glossy Picture and CSP Greenie Weenie Magazine.

I will be very interested to see that thing wash 375,000 heliostats in the
Mohave Desert since there are no tracks for it to run on and they are
unevenly placed.  How big is that water tank?  Does another robot supply
the water?

Anyway, I still want one for my backyard and I do like the RD




On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:

 ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote:


 I am a Chemical Engineer, I spent 2 1/2 years of my life helping design
 the largest operating industrial solar thermal plant in the World.


 Then surely you know that modern ones do not call for people driving
 around on tractors washing the mirrors.

 Here is an article about a mobile CSP cleaning robot:


 http://social.csptoday.com/technology/hector-meet-future-solar-field-mirror-washing

 Look up HECTOR.pdf

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

A little more info here:

http://www.sener-aerospace.com/AEROESPACIAL/ProjectsD/hector-cleaning-robot-system-for-heliostats/en

There is a .pdf file out there with a bigger image but I can't find it.

- Jed

RE: [Vo]:Online Cosmic Rays Moscow Neutron Monitor

2013-01-31 Thread Jones Beene

Hmm ... was there comment from an official source on this spike? There is
not much info that I can find online.

Where are higher neutron spikes shown in the data? I do not see any spikes
which are higher, but they might not show up on the monthly chart.

http://helios.izmiran.rssi.ru/cosray/months.htm

The main reason that I was interested in this - some nuclear relics would be
expected IF there was an actual explosion at the Iranian enrichment
facility (following an earthquake and this now appears unlikely). one might
expect to see spikes in radiation monitors downwind of any explosion in
those countries which do this type of monitoring.

Many things argue against this spike having any remote relationship to Iran.
Firstly, Moscow is about 1500 miles away from Tehran, and in a direction not
favored by prevailing winds. Second the spike is to large and the timing is
slightly off, even if the winds did blow that way. However the radiation
from Chernobyl turned up in surprising places.

Also one would expect the results to show up with heavy elements, not
neutrons, so this spike is probably what it purports to be which is related
to a cosmic ray burst - but it would be nice to see expert commentary.


-Original Message-
From: Arnaud Kodeck 

What has happened in Moscow?

I don't understand the percentage. What does this mean?

It has never been so high for the last 2 years, but other spikes occurred,
even higher. 

Arnaud

RE: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

metro.co.uk Jan 5, 2013,  Pensioners burn books to stay warm.

So, the investment in alternative energy would create more jobs?  Like 
polishing mirrors?  Or do your robots do that after the coal miners/ railroad 
workers/utility boiler feeders go on the dole?

Dismissing Wall Street opinion on alternative energy investment leaves me a bit 
speechless - as the very manifestation of the mindset condemned in others at 
the start of this thread.  Goes full circle, I guess.

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:


 Dismissing Wall Street opinion on alternative energy investment leaves me
 a bit speechless - as the very manifestation of the mindset condemned in
 others at the start of this thread.  Goes full circle, I guess.


Business investment is not an exact science. It is not really a science at
all. It is more like professional gambling such as poker. You cannot
compare it to people finding fossilized coral.

Running a business does take expertise. You would think that with all the
people out there knowledgeable about business, someone would invest in cold
fusion. But history shows that business people often miss opportunities.
For many years no one in California would invest in the transcontinental
railroad project, or help push Washington to fund it. Even after Lincoln
got on board they had trouble finding investors. That turned out to be the
most lucrative investment in history.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

2013-01-31 Thread Eric Walker

On Jan 31, 2013, at 8:54, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

 Take the mortgage melt down in 2008 and following, do you think any 
 intelligence was used by the financial industry. Yet these people almost 
 collapsed the financial system of the West, which has led to the present 
 financial situation.  Stupid people now have the power to stop civilization 
 in its tracks. 

Some of the world's smartest minds worked together to produce the financial 
collapse. They had an implicit faith in the assurances of free-market ideology 
and laissez-faire, which they had unquestioningly imbibed since childhood, and 
they based their rent-seeking behavior on those assurances with religious zeal.

What they lacked was simple common sense and concrete incentives to avoid 
actions that are harmful to society.

Eric

RE: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

I have played the Market ( profitably).  I never gamble or play poker.  Even 
Malkiel in his Random Walk thesis considered that there could be exceptions 
(closed end funds, for example).

Cold Fusion is an effect that needs to be a practical product and large 
companies might hate the idea, anyway. I wanted to spend my retirement with my 
own lab derived from ebay but now, I'm screwed - as many others are.  Work 'til 
you call in dead is the new regime.

Buena Suerte, Mr Rossi.

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote:


 Some of the world's smartest minds worked together to produce the
 financial collapse. They had an implicit faith in the assurances of
 free-market ideology and laissez-faire . . .


 What they lacked was simple common sense and concrete incentives to avoid
 actions that are harmful to society.


I agree! That is also how I would describe the political and military
leaders who started World War I.

See also Tuchman's book, The March of Folly.

I have high regard for capitalism and the free market. But, as I said, like
all things human these institutions have weaknesses. They can fail,
sometimes disastrously.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100



On Jan 31, 2013, at 1:50 PM, Eric Walker wrote:


On Jan 31, 2013, at 8:54, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

Take the mortgage melt down in 2008 and following, do you think  
any intelligence was used by the financial industry. Yet these  
people almost collapsed the financial system of the West, which  
has led to the present financial situation.  Stupid people now  
have the power to stop civilization in its tracks.


Some of the world's smartest minds worked together to produce the  
financial collapse. They had an implicit faith in the assurances of  
free-market ideology and laissez-faire, which they had  
unquestioningly imbibed since childhood, and they based their rent- 
seeking behavior on those assurances with religious zeal.


What they lacked was simple common sense and concrete incentives to  
avoid actions that are harmful to society.


Does what you describe not represent stupid behavior? People can be  
self-serving, greedy, and without moral compass, but when they do  
something that shoots themselves in the foot, I call this stupid.


Ed


Eric

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

Is that a John Deere?

On Thursday, January 31, 2013, Jed Rothwell wrote:

 A little more info here:


 http://www.sener-aerospace.com/AEROESPACIAL/ProjectsD/hector-cleaning-robot-system-for-heliostats/en

 There is a .pdf file out there with a bigger image but I can't find it.

 - Jed

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:


 Some of the world's smartest minds worked together to produce the
 financial collapse. . . .



 Does what you describe not represent stupid behavior?


Yes! It is both smart and stupid, at the same time. Most wars are like that.

People who are brilliant in some ways, in some situations, can be stupid in
others. Huizenga is a good example. Intelligence is not unified entity. It
does not apply equally to all subjects.

- Jed

[Vo]:Margin Call tells it like it was

2013-01-31 Thread Jones Beene

-Original Message-

From: Eric Walker 

 Take the mortgage melt down in 2008 and following, do you think any
intelligence was used by the financial industry. Yet these people almost
collapsed the financial system of the West, which has led to the present
financial situation.  Stupid people now have the power to stop civilization
in its tracks. 

Some of the world's smartest minds worked together to produce the financial
collapse. They had an implicit faith in the assurances of free-market
ideology and laissez-faire, which they had unquestioningly imbibed since
childhood, and they based their rent-seeking behavior on those assurances
with religious zeal.

What they lacked was simple common sense and concrete incentives to avoid
actions that are harmful to society.



Well not exactly, Eric - the problem is that those same incentives are
usually going to be in direct conflict under Capitalism with harm to the
company (via foregoing a competitive timing advantage). 

Common sense Capitalism says to avoid actions that are harmful to the
company, even if they are harmful to society. Socialism, says: if you do not
avoid actions which are harmful to society then you will forfeit gains and
pay penalties. Which one makes more sense?

It would be more accurate to say that prior to the meltdown - there were a
few bright people who were trying to profit via exceedingly high leverage
(leverage on top of leverage) ... but oversold an artificial financial
product which should never have been allowed to be offered - and even the
inventors of the product misjudged the risk. 

Then - a few smarter people (two geeks, to be exact) were able to spot the
problem 24 hours in advance, but the greed of one firm in getting out
first essentially took the entire market down - and very nearly the whole
economy. IF they had not acted quickly, however, they would have suffered as
much as everyone else, and their stockholders would not have given them
incredibly generous bonuses.

A great film on this subject, only partly fiction is Margin Call. Many of
the participants of the melt-down praise its accuracy - while never
mentioning the main culprit by name. 

IOW - in Hollywood - the names have been changed to protect the guilty ...
since they too operate on borrowed capital and do not want to alienate the
biggest of the big.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_Call_%28film%29

Although the film does not depict any real Wall Street firm, or similar
corporate action during the 2008 financial crisis, Goldman Sachs similarly
moved early to hedge and reduce its position in mortgage-backed securities,
at the urging of two employees.

Actually - It is not inaccurate, in retrospect - to lay most of the blame
and most of the avoidable losses (shifted to others) on Goldman alone. They
should have been severely punished. 

That they were not punished is a disgrace.

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

I make a distinction between intelligence and stupidly.  The human  
mind has many features that can exist at the same time, as you note.  
For example, a person can be insane yet brilliant. A person can be  
stupid yet a savant. Society has no ability to make a distinction.  As  
a result, stupid, insane people are given power because they are  
intelligent.  For years, being a banker was considered honest, but  
sometimes heartless. Now the banker is seen as both heartless and  
dishonest. How did this happen? How does society change this way?


Ed

On Jan 31, 2013, at 2:24 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:


Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

Some of the world's smartest minds worked together to produce the  
financial collapse. . . .


Does what you describe not represent stupid behavior?

Yes! It is both smart and stupid, at the same time. Most wars are  
like that.


People who are brilliant in some ways, in some situations, can be  
stupid in others. Huizenga is a good example. Intelligence is not  
unified entity. It does not apply equally to all subjects.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

2013-01-31 Thread Harry Veeder

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
 A little more info here:

 http://www.sener-aerospace.com/AEROESPACIAL/ProjectsD/hector-cleaning-robot-system-for-heliostats/en

 There is a .pdf file out there with a bigger image but I can't find it.

 - Jed


is this it?

shortened url:
http://tinyurl.com/asqjdbx

full url:
http://www.google.ca/url?sa=trct=jq=esrc=sfrm=1source=webcd=1ved=0CDIQFjAAurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.worldfutureenergysummit.com%2FPortal%2Fassets%2Fdownload%2Ffedf43ce%2FHECTOR.pdf.aspxei=XeUKUZCcIYrgyQHvp4HoDgusg=AFQjCNEeZDriZ2JUWDUhDz2Pqc8GWk-GUw

Harry

Harry

Re: [Vo]:PGE buying output from 150 MW solar thermal plant with molten salts

Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:


 is this it?

 shortened url:
 http://tinyurl.com/asqjdbx


Yeah. Still not a good image, is it? Maybe they don't want to release a hi
res version.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:NHK: ocean levels may rise 9 m by 2100

2013-01-31 Thread Craig

It wasn't the free market that failed with the mortgage meltdown. It was
the federal reserve and the federal government which together created a
moral hazard. Peter Schiff had it right, back in 2006. Artificially low
interest rates promote consumption and distract from savings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

Craig



On 01/31/2013 03:50 PM, Eric Walker wrote:
 On Jan 31, 2013, at 8:54, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote:

 Take the mortgage melt down in 2008 and following, do you think any 
 intelligence was used by the financial industry. Yet these people almost 
 collapsed the financial system of the West, which has led to the present 
 financial situation.  Stupid people now have the power to stop civilization 
 in its tracks. 
 Some of the world's smartest minds worked together to produce the financial 
 collapse. They had an implicit faith in the assurances of free-market 
 ideology and laissez-faire, which they had unquestioningly imbibed since 
 childhood, and they based their rent-seeking behavior on those assurances 
 with religious zeal.

 What they lacked was simple common sense and concrete incentives to avoid 
 actions that are harmful to society.

 Eric

RE: [Vo]:Margin Call tells it like it was

Let's not forget outright fraud and theft while government regulators did 
nothing to touch the scofflaw 1%.

There was a whole body of state and local legal tradition in regard to the 
transfer of mortgages that was ignored by the banksters.  They ran document 
fraud factories in which people laughingly put down fake names ( CBS '60 
Minutes'). And nobody went to jail.

Re: [Vo]:Margin Call tells it like it was

Chris Zell chrisz...@wetmtv.com wrote:


 They ran document fraud factories in which people laughingly put down fake
 names ( CBS '60 Minutes'). And nobody went to jail.


I saw that! It is appalling. I cannot understand why no one has been
jailed. Especially with Obama in office. Very disappointing.

People have argued that that the banks were at fault, or the regulators, or
the changes in the law, Fannie May and so on. I cannot judge but I suppose
there is plenty of blame to go around. A pox on all their houses!

I thought the movie Too Big To Fail was good. I read the book too, but it
is too involved with so many people I couldn't keep track.

- Jed

[Vo]:Nanor

Does anyone know what the status is of the Nanor device at MIT? Has it been
kept running? Has anyone duplicated the device and successfully run it?

Thanks in advance.

[mg]

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

Swartz has been very secretive.  His web site:

http://world.std.com/~mica/jettech.html

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 9:00 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:
 Does anyone know what the status is of the Nanor device at MIT? Has it been
 kept running? Has anyone duplicated the device and successfully run it?

 Thanks in advance.

 [mg]

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Swartz has been very secretive.  His web site:

 http://world.std.com/~mica/jettech.html

Probably the most info publicly available:

http://coldfusionnow.org/jet-energy-nanor-device-at-mit-continuing-to-operate-months-later/

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Swartz has been very secretive.  His web site:
 
  http://world.std.com/~mica/jettech.html


Yep, that's a lot of ... er, stuff.


 Probably the most info publicly available:


 http://coldfusionnow.org/jet-energy-nanor-device-at-mit-continuing-to-operate-months-later/

 And the video is AWOL. Sigh.

[m]

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 And the video is AWOL. Sigh.

 Damn.  Well the .pdf is there:

 http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/HagelsteinPdemonstra.pdf

Hagelstein's series of vids are still there.  Number 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoPe4TzdJsA

Sorry, I don't know which of the series talks about NANOR.

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:46 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

 And the video is AWOL. Sigh.

 Damn.  Well the .pdf is there:

 http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/HagelsteinPdemonstra.pdf

 Hagelstein's series of vids are still there.  Number 1:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoPe4TzdJsA

 Sorry, I don't know which of the series talks about NANOR.

Looks like the second one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_IoIfL-rTs

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

I  read that ... which is to say I scanned it but I can't draw any
conclusions from it. Anyone willing to apply their huge brain to that
document and summarize it? Thanks in advance.

[m]


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:28 PM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

  And the video is AWOL. Sigh.

 Damn.  Well the .pdf is there:


 http://coldfusionnow.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/HagelsteinPdemonstra.pdf

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

2013-01-31 Thread Ruby



There was no other video of the NANOR publicly available other than 
Barry Simon's (that I know).


Mitchell Swartz's two summary of the course posted on Cold Fusion Times 
was re-posted by me here:

http://coldfusionnow.org/2nd-week-summary-of-cold-fusion-101/

Hagelstein's video is of theoretical issues, and speaks of NANOR here 
and there for support, but there is no NANOR video included (I didn't 
get through it to the end though!)


From the release on his website, it seems that there may be some video 
from the Swartz portion of the course soon.




On 1/31/13 7:28 PM, Mark Gibbs wrote:
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com 
mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Terry Blanton
hohlr...@gmail.com mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Swartz has been very secretive.  His web site:

 http://world.std.com/~mica/jettech.html
http://world.std.com/%7Emica/jettech.html


Yep, that's a lot of ... er, stuff.


Probably the most info publicly available:


http://coldfusionnow.org/jet-energy-nanor-device-at-mit-continuing-to-operate-months-later/

And the video is AWOL. Sigh.

[m]




--
Ruby Carat
r...@coldfusionnow.org mailto:r...@coldfusionnow.org
United States 1-707-616-4894
Skype ruby-carat
www.coldfusionnow.org http://www.coldfusionnow.org

[Vo]:in the last decade. The world went from connected to hyperconnected, so Woodrow C. Monte methanol-formaldehyde paradigm, being true, is spreading and evolving exponentially: Thomas L. Friedma

2013-01-31 Thread Rich Murray

in the last decade. The world went from connected to hyperconnected,
so Woodrow C. Monte methanol-formaldehyde paradigm, being true, is
spreading and evolving exponentially: Thomas L. Friedman: Dan Novak:
Rich Murray 2013.01.31
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2013/01/in-last-decade-world-went-from.html


so this post illustrates and is this benign collaborative exponential
creativity...


comrade Dan Novak,

thanks for resonating so well with what I wanted to alert family and
friends about -- maybe a new global economy has to always guarantee
free all basic needs, including all education and information
collaboration access, while inviting all kinds of people and their
networks to compete constructively at anything that serves themselves
and others -- the work-play-service itself is its own daily reward --
what I am doing re methanol-formaldehyde toxicity, being a good
example -- I just started posting free conscientious reviews 14 years
ago about aspartame research, anticipating exponential world change
via the Net -- attracting the probable history since fall 2007 where I
am collaborating closely with Woodrow C. Monte, whose breakthrough
methanol-formaldehyde paradigm expands the game from aspartame to all
methanol sources and dozens of major diseases, from Alzheimer's to
autism, which will generate trillions of dollars of benefit as the
paradigm expands and evolves exponentially -- suddenly, the evolving
biological measurement technology makes the scientific confirmation a
trivial, rapid one-expert action -- in this case the process of
applying the paradigm is remarkably simple, cheap, safe, effective for
treatment and prevention -- just avoid all methanol...

within the fellowship of service,  Rich


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:18 AM  PST, Dan Novakwrote:

 -Original Message-
 From: URI General Discussion List
[mailto:theforu...@listserv.uri.edu]
On Behalf Of Dan Novak
 Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 12:36 PM
 To: theforu...@listserv.uri.edu
 Subject: lotta Q's!

 Good Morning! -- DN

 January 29, 2013, The New York Times

 It’s P.Q. and C.Q. as Much as I.Q.

 By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

President Obama’s first term was absorbed by dealing with the Great
Recession. I hope that in his second term he’ll be able to devote more
attention to the Great Inflection.

Dealing with the Great Recession was largely about “Yes We Can” — about
government, about what we can and must do “together” to shore up the safety
nets and institutions that undergird our society and economy. Obama’s
Inaugural Address was a full-throated defense of that “public” side of the
unique public-private partnership that makes America great. But, if we’re to
sustain the kind of public institutions and safety nets that we’re used to,
it will require a lot more growth by the private side (not just more taxes),
a lot more entrepreneurship, a lot more start-ups and a lot more individual
risk-taking — things the president rarely speaks about. And it will all have
to happen in the context of the Great Inflection.

What do I mean by the Great Inflection? I mean something very big happened
in the last decade. The world went from connected to hyperconnected in a way
that is impacting every job, industry and school, but was largely disguised
by post-9/11 and the Great Recession. In 2004, I wrote a book, called “The
World Is Flat,” about how the world was getting digitally connected so more
people could compete, connect and collaborate from anywhere. When I wrote
that book, Facebook, Twitter, cloud computing, LinkedIn, 4G wireless,
ultra-high-speed bandwidth, big data, Skype, system-on-a-chip (SOC)
circuits, iPhones, iPods, iPads and cellphone apps didn’t exist, or were in
their infancy.

Today, not only do all these things exist, but, in combination, they’ve
taken us from connected to hyperconnected. Now, notes Craig Mundie, one of
Microsoft’s top technologists, not just elites, but virtually everyone
everywhere has, or will have soon, access to a hand-held computer/cellphone,
which can be activated by voice or touch, connected via the cloud to
infinite applications and storage, so they can work, invent, entertain,
collaborate and learn for less money than ever before. Alas, though, every
boss now also has cheaper, easier, faster access to more above-average
software, automation, robotics, cheap labor and cheap genius than ever
before. That means the old average is over. Everyone who wants a job now
must demonstrate how they can add value better than the new alternatives.

When the world gets this hyperconnected, adds Mundie, the speed with which
every job and industry changes also goes into hypermode. “In the old days,”
he said, “it was assumed that your educational foundation would last your
whole lifetime. That is no longer true.” Because of the way every industry —
from health care to manufacturing to education — is now being transformed by
cheap, fast, connected computing power, the skill required for every decent
job is rising as is

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

2013-01-31 Thread Peter Gluck

technologists are waiting for KILOR and MEGAR
Peter

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Ruby r...@hush.com wrote:


 There was no other video of the NANOR publicly available other than Barry
 Simon's (that I know).

 Mitchell Swartz's two summary of the course posted on Cold Fusion Times
 was re-posted by me here:
 http://coldfusionnow.org/2nd-week-summary-of-cold-fusion-101/

 Hagelstein's video is of theoretical issues, and speaks of NANOR here and
 there for support, but there is no NANOR video included (I didn't get
 through it to the end though!)

 From the release on his website, it seems that there may be some video
 from the Swartz portion of the course soon.




 On 1/31/13 7:28 PM, Mark Gibbs wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Swartz has been very secretive.  His web site:
 
  http://world.std.com/~mica/jettech.html


  Yep, that's a lot of ... er, stuff.


  Probably the most info publicly available:


 http://coldfusionnow.org/jet-energy-nanor-device-at-mit-continuing-to-operate-months-later/

  And the video is AWOL. Sigh.

  [m]



 --
 Ruby Carat
 r...@coldfusionnow.org
 United States 1-707-616-4894
 Skype ruby-carat
 www.coldfusionnow.org




-- 
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

I must be behind the curve ... and what might KILOR and MEGAR be?

[m]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:29 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:

technologists are waiting for KILOR and MEGAR
Peter

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Ruby r...@hush.com wrote:

There was no other video of the NANOR publicly available other than Barry
Simon's (that I know).

Mitchell Swartz's two summary of the course posted on Cold Fusion Times
was re-posted by me here:
http://coldfusionnow.org/2nd-week-summary-of-cold-fusion-101/

Hagelstein's video is of theoretical issues, and speaks of NANOR here and
there for support, but there is no NANOR video included (I didn't get
through it to the end though!)

From the release on his website, it seems that there may be some video
from the Swartz portion of the course soon.

On 1/31/13 7:28 PM, Mark Gibbs wrote:

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.comwrote:

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com
wrote:
Swartz has been very secretive. His web site:

http://world.std.com/~mica/jettech.html

Yep, that's a lot of ... er, stuff.

Probably the most info publicly available:

http://coldfusionnow.org/jet-energy-nanor-device-at-mit-continuing-to-operate-months-later/

And the video is AWOL. Sigh.

[m]

--
Ruby Carat
r...@coldfusionnow.org
United States 1-707-616-4894
Skype ruby-carat
www.coldfusionnow.org

--
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Nanor

2013-01-31 Thread Peter Gluck

Easy to answer: something GREAT(ER) - much greater, useful and efficient.
Generating intense heat, usable as a practical energy source.
Science is magnificent, technology works for us.
Peter

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 8:38 AM, Mark Gibbs mgi...@gibbs.com wrote:

I must be behind the curve ... and what might KILOR and MEGAR be?

[m]

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:29 PM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote:

technologists are waiting for KILOR and MEGAR
Peter

On Fri, Feb 1, 2013 at 6:26 AM, Ruby r...@hush.com wrote:

There was no other video of the NANOR publicly available other than
Barry Simon's (that I know).

Mitchell Swartz's two summary of the course posted on Cold Fusion Times
was re-posted by me here:
http://coldfusionnow.org/2nd-week-summary-of-cold-fusion-101/

Hagelstein's video is of theoretical issues, and speaks of NANOR here
and there for support, but there is no NANOR video included (I didn't get
through it to the end though!)

From the release on his website, it seems that there may be some video
from the Swartz portion of the course soon.

On 1/31/13 7:28 PM, Mark Gibbs wrote:

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.comwrote:

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:07 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com
wrote:
Swartz has been very secretive. His web site:

http://world.std.com/~mica/jettech.html

Yep, that's a lot of ... er, stuff.

Probably the most info publicly available:

http://coldfusionnow.org/jet-energy-nanor-device-at-mit-continuing-to-operate-months-later/

And the video is AWOL. Sigh.

[m]

--
Ruby Carat
r...@coldfusionnow.org
United States 1-707-616-4894
Skype ruby-carat
www.coldfusionnow.org

--
Dr. Peter Gluck
Cluj, Romania
http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com

Re: [Vo]:Nanor