Re: [Vo]:the same trend in LENR info. & about its sacred cows
Unless science understands how LENR produces heat inside planets, they will be faced with mounting numbers of unsolvable cosmological conundrums. Scientists shocked to find Mercury has liquid metal core and a magnetic field like Earth MAY 13, 2015 BY DAN TAYLOR Scientists shocked to find Mercury has liquid metal core and a magnetic field like Earth NASA's MESSENGER spacecraft smashed into the planet's surface on April 30 after four years in orbit, but not before sending back some amazing data. Scientists were floored recently after getting back data from NASA’s MESSENGER space probe that showed that Mercury has a core filled with sloshing liquid metal, much like Earth — and they’re scratching their heads as to how that’s possible. Mercury had been thought to be too small to have a liquid core, as scientists believed the metal would have cooled relatively quickly in its history, but the MESSENGER space probe sent back data before slamming into the planet on April 30 that indicated that yes, its core still contains molten metal, and that metal is creating a magnetic field similar to that of Earth, according to a Space.com report. It’s nowhere near as powerful — scientists estimate that it is 100 times weaker than Earth’s. But the findings still surprised scientists who thought they would find a solid rock core much like the other rocky planets in our solar system. The findings shed new light on the evolution of Mercury, the closest planet to the sun and the smallest planet in the solar system, and will force scientists to rethink how it developed. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 5:18 PM, Axil Axilwrote: > It has proven for the first time that the deepest part of the lunar mantle > is soft, based upon the agreement between observation results and the > theoretical calculations. > The research team also clarified that heat is efficiently generated by the > tides in the soft part, deepest in the mantle. > > In general, a part of the energy stored inside a celestial body by tidal > forces (caused by being pushed and pulled by its partner, in this case > Earth, as it orbits) is changed to heat. > The heat generation depends on the softness of the interior. > > Whereas previous research also suggests that some part of the energy > inside the moon due to the tidal forces is changed to heat, the present > research indicates that this type of energy conversion does not uniformly > occur in the entire moon, but only intensively in a soft layer. > The research team believes that the soft layer is now warming the core of > the moon as the core seems to be wrapped by the layer, which is located in > the deepest part of the mantle, and which efficiently generates heat. > > They also expect that a soft layer like this may efficiently have warmed > the core in the past as well. > > > Read more: > http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2719809/Is-moon-s-core-MOLTEN-Centre-satellite-wrapped-layer-soft-rock-claim-scientists.html#ixzz40SvO0v6m > > > The moon's core could well be heated by cold fusion. The assumptions made > about the moons molten core sound far fetched. A soft layer would not has > formed when the moon cooled. All less dense stuff would have risen upward > during the cooling process. > > Without cold fusion science does not make sense. > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Peter Gluck > wrote: > >> >> Good surprises are necessary. >> >> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/02/feb-17-2016-lenr-sacred-cow-candidates.html >> >> Best wishes, >> Peter >> -- >> Dr. Peter Gluck >> Cluj, Romania >> http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com >> > >
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent Robots
On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 12:26 AM, H LVwrote: > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Chris Zell wrote: > >> >> It’s too bad Startrek isn’t around anymore because it got people to think >> about these future challenges. >> >> >> > > > Star Trek "Money doesn't exist in the 24th Century" > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wqSDupcxY > > Harry > > The great transformation is underway now. It is not going to happen in the future. It is happening now. More Star Trek clips Star trek Economy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQQYbKT_rMg Samuel Clemens in the 24th century https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7mmjxkL5X0 Harry
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent Robots
On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:08 PM, Chris Zellwrote: > > It’s too bad Startrek isn’t around anymore because it got people to think > about these future challenges. > > > Star Trek "Money doesn't exist in the 24th Century" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2wqSDupcxY Harry
Re: [Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
Axil Axilwrote: > This paper describes how the performance of AI machines tends to improve > at the same pace that AI researchers get access to faster hardware. The > processing power and memory capacity necessary to match general > intellectual performance of the human brain are estimated. . . . > Ah, I see what comparison this is. This is roughly the number of brain synapses multiplied by processing speed. Yes, that has been far ahead of computers for a long time. The raw speed of some computations that do not require a large memory has been faster in computers since they were invented, but that is a different metric. There was a comparison some time ago of computing power versus the human brain, with an animated graphic showing how long it would take to full Lake Michigan if you double the amount of water you add each year. See: "Welcome, Robot Overlords. Please Don't Fire Us? Smart machines probably won't kill us all—but they'll definitely take our jobs, and sooner than you think." http://www.motherjones.com/media/2013/05/robots-artificial-intelligence-jobs-automation QUOTES: Suppose it's 1940 and Lake Michigan has (somehow) been emptied. Your job is to fill it up using the following rule: To start off, you can add one fluid ounce of water to the lake bed. Eighteen months later, you can add two. In another 18 months, you can add four ounces. And so on. Obviously this is going to take a while. By 1950, you have added around a gallon of water. But you keep soldiering on. By 1960, you have a bit more than 150 gallons. By 1970, you have 16,000 gallons, about as much as an average suburban swimming pool. . . . IF YOU HAVE ANY KIND OF BACKGROUND in computers, you've already figured out that I didn't pick these numbers out of a hat. I started in 1940 because that's about when the first programmable computer was invented. I chose a doubling time of 18 months because of a cornerstone of computer history called Moore's Law, which famously estimates that computing power doubles approximately every 18 months. And I chose Lake Michigan because its size, in fluid ounces, is roughly the same as the computing power of the human brain measured in calculations per second. . . . - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
more... http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-web-within-us-minds-and-machines-become-one There are many new technologies waiting in the wings that will allow this to happen. Nanotube circuits, for example, are capable of forming extremely dense three-dimensional arrays of computing elements. A 1 inch cube of nanotube circuitry would be at least a million times more powerful than the human brain. Other experimental technologies include three-dimensional chips, optical computing, crystalline computing, DNA, and quantum computing. *By 2019, a $1,000 computer will match the processing power of the human brain–about 20 million billion calculations per second. By 2029, your average PC will be equivalent to 1,000 human brains.* On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Axil Axilwrote: > http://www.jetpress.org/volume1/moravec.htm > > *ABSTRACT* > > This paper describes how the performance of AI machines tends to improve > at the same pace that AI researchers get access to faster hardware. The > processing power and memory capacity necessary to match general > intellectual performance of the human brain are estimated. Based on > extrapolation of past trends and on examination of technologies under > development, it is predicted that the required hardware will be available > in cheap machines in the 2020s. > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil > > > > *Between 1981 and 2002, the processing power, hard disk space and RAM in a > typical desktop computer increased dramatically because of Moore's Law. > Extrapolating out to the years 2021 and 2041 shows a startling increase in > computer power. The point where small, inexpensive computers have power > approaching that of the human brain is just a few decades away.* > > > http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Jed Rothwell > wrote: > >> Axil Axil wrote: >> >> By 2030, the PC will be 1000 times faster then the human brain. >>> >> >> In what sense? Computers have always been much faster than the human >> brain for some operations. The first computer, ENIAC, was much faster than >> the humans it replaced. >> >> Computers are now becoming faster at pattern recognition, which is >> remarkable. A few years ago they were still much slower. The human brain >> does that sort of thing with parallel processing, comparing an image to all >> images in the brain simultaneously. In the 1980s, this was done on >> computers with associative memory. Nowadays I assume it is done with >> parallel processing. >> >> >> >>> A PC chip will be planted in the brain that will provide health >>> monitoring, internet communications, added memory storage and computational >>> power. >>> >> >> I very much doubt that anyone will learn how to routinely and safely >> implant a PC chip anytime soon! There are experiments with implanted >> devices in paraplegic patients. They are promising but dangerous. The >> equipment is barely capable of sorting out signals, and it can only do a >> few signals, such as "raise arm." >> >> - Jed >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
http://www.jetpress.org/volume1/moravec.htm *ABSTRACT* This paper describes how the performance of AI machines tends to improve at the same pace that AI researchers get access to faster hardware. The processing power and memory capacity necessary to match general intellectual performance of the human brain are estimated. Based on extrapolation of past trends and on examination of technologies under development, it is predicted that the required hardware will be available in cheap machines in the 2020s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_made_by_Ray_Kurzweil *Between 1981 and 2002, the processing power, hard disk space and RAM in a typical desktop computer increased dramatically because of Moore's Law. Extrapolating out to the years 2021 and 2041 shows a startling increase in computer power. The point where small, inexpensive computers have power approaching that of the human brain is just a few decades away.* http://marshallbrain.com/robotic-nation.htm On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > Axil Axil wrote: > > By 2030, the PC will be 1000 times faster then the human brain. >> > > In what sense? Computers have always been much faster than the human brain > for some operations. The first computer, ENIAC, was much faster than the > humans it replaced. > > Computers are now becoming faster at pattern recognition, which is > remarkable. A few years ago they were still much slower. The human brain > does that sort of thing with parallel processing, comparing an image to all > images in the brain simultaneously. In the 1980s, this was done on > computers with associative memory. Nowadays I assume it is done with > parallel processing. > > > >> A PC chip will be planted in the brain that will provide health >> monitoring, internet communications, added memory storage and computational >> power. >> > > I very much doubt that anyone will learn how to routinely and safely > implant a PC chip anytime soon! There are experiments with implanted > devices in paraplegic patients. They are promising but dangerous. The > equipment is barely capable of sorting out signals, and it can only do a > few signals, such as "raise arm." > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
Axil Axilwrote: By 2030, the PC will be 1000 times faster then the human brain. > In what sense? Computers have always been much faster than the human brain for some operations. The first computer, ENIAC, was much faster than the humans it replaced. Computers are now becoming faster at pattern recognition, which is remarkable. A few years ago they were still much slower. The human brain does that sort of thing with parallel processing, comparing an image to all images in the brain simultaneously. In the 1980s, this was done on computers with associative memory. Nowadays I assume it is done with parallel processing. > A PC chip will be planted in the brain that will provide health > monitoring, internet communications, added memory storage and computational > power. > I very much doubt that anyone will learn how to routinely and safely implant a PC chip anytime soon! There are experiments with implanted devices in paraplegic patients. They are promising but dangerous. The equipment is barely capable of sorting out signals, and it can only do a few signals, such as "raise arm." - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
By 2030, the PC will be 1000 times faster then the human brain. A PC chip will be planted in the brain that will provide health monitoring, internet communications, added memory storage and computational power. It may be possible to see out of other people's or robot's eyes and hear what other people's or robot's hear. What sort of apps can be impliment using a direct brain/chip interface? Get jump on the app market, time is growing short. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:28 PM, Axil Axilwrote: > Here is another one > > http://internetmedicine.com/dermatology-apps/ > > there are a lot of them. > > There will be a time when your personal computing device will monitor your > body 24/7/365 and report any developing medical problems. > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Axil Axil wrote: > >> This may be the app >> >> http://www.lubax.com/ >> >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Axil Axil wrote: >> >>> I heard that there is an iphone app using photo comparison logic that >>> uses a database of skin cancer photos that generates a 20% better record >>> for correct skin cancer diag than can be produced by diag from a skin >>> doctor. >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Jed Rothwell >>> wrote: >>> Bob Cook wrote: Why does such a data base not already exist?—maybe radiologists are > afraid of being left out of the picture. > This database does exist. It is being constructed now. It will be a while before it can be used clinically. - Jed >>> >> >
[Vo]:LGE Antigravity Drone-with Camera-Non-Balloon!
Greetings Vortex, Not sure of the accuracy of the LGE Antigravity Drone. BUT specs IF true...3 pounds and 10 inches in diameternot a balloon: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/antigravity-drone-lge-first-in-the-world#/ Ron Kita, Chiralex
Re: [Vo]:the same trend in LENR info. & about its sacred cows
It has proven for the first time that the deepest part of the lunar mantle is soft, based upon the agreement between observation results and the theoretical calculations. The research team also clarified that heat is efficiently generated by the tides in the soft part, deepest in the mantle. In general, a part of the energy stored inside a celestial body by tidal forces (caused by being pushed and pulled by its partner, in this case Earth, as it orbits) is changed to heat. The heat generation depends on the softness of the interior. Whereas previous research also suggests that some part of the energy inside the moon due to the tidal forces is changed to heat, the present research indicates that this type of energy conversion does not uniformly occur in the entire moon, but only intensively in a soft layer. The research team believes that the soft layer is now warming the core of the moon as the core seems to be wrapped by the layer, which is located in the deepest part of the mantle, and which efficiently generates heat. They also expect that a soft layer like this may efficiently have warmed the core in the past as well. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2719809/Is-moon-s-core-MOLTEN-Centre-satellite-wrapped-layer-soft-rock-claim-scientists.html#ixzz40SvO0v6m The moon's core could well be heated by cold fusion. The assumptions made about the moons molten core sound far fetched. A soft layer would not has formed when the moon cooled. All less dense stuff would have risen upward during the cooling process. Without cold fusion science does not make sense. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 2:05 PM, Peter Gluckwrote: > > Good surprises are necessary. > > http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/02/feb-17-2016-lenr-sacred-cow-candidates.html > > Best wishes, > Peter > -- > Dr. Peter Gluck > Cluj, Romania > http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com >
Re: [Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
Here is another one http://internetmedicine.com/dermatology-apps/ there are a lot of them. There will be a time when your personal computing device will monitor your body 24/7/365 and report any developing medical problems. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:19 PM, Axil Axilwrote: > This may be the app > > http://www.lubax.com/ > > > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Axil Axil wrote: > >> I heard that there is an iphone app using photo comparison logic that >> uses a database of skin cancer photos that generates a 20% better record >> for correct skin cancer diag than can be produced by diag from a skin >> doctor. >> >> On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Jed Rothwell >> wrote: >> >>> Bob Cook wrote: >>> >>> Why does such a data base not already exist?—maybe radiologists are afraid of being left out of the picture. >>> >>> This database does exist. It is being constructed now. It will be a >>> while before it can be used clinically. >>> >>> - Jed >>> >>> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
This may be the app http://www.lubax.com/ On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Axil Axilwrote: > I heard that there is an iphone app using photo comparison logic that uses > a database of skin cancer photos that generates a 20% better record for > correct skin cancer diag than can be produced by diag from a skin doctor. > > On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Jed Rothwell > wrote: > >> Bob Cook wrote: >> >> Why does such a data base not already exist?—maybe radiologists are >>> afraid of being left out of the picture. >>> >> >> This database does exist. It is being constructed now. It will be a while >> before it can be used clinically. >> >> - Jed >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
I heard that there is an iphone app using photo comparison logic that uses a database of skin cancer photos that generates a 20% better record for correct skin cancer diag than can be produced by diag from a skin doctor. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 3:17 PM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > Bob Cook wrote: > > Why does such a data base not already exist?—maybe radiologists are afraid >> of being left out of the picture. >> > > This database does exist. It is being constructed now. It will be a while > before it can be used clinically. > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
Bob Cookwrote: Why does such a data base not already exist?—maybe radiologists are afraid > of being left out of the picture. > This database does exist. It is being constructed now. It will be a while before it can be used clinically. - Jed
Fwd: [Vo]:Intelligent robots make millions of jobs
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots make millions of jobs Technology is a double edge sword. It gives and it takes away. For the more savvy it can give employment. A few years ago, I could never publish books or sell software. Now with a click of a button my products are available world wide. They are available from Japan, across Europe, to US. I could not have dreamed of this a few years ago. My latest product Monitoring has just been released. It was made for the builder and inventors. The second release is out now. It has improved images and help text. Nicer orb. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text=%22znidarsic+science+books%22=n%3A133140011%2Ck%3A%22znidarsic+science+books%22 In case you are wondering where the orb came form it is here: http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/backups/monitoring/binockulars.jpg Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
Jed,”.. In the past, education helped because automation and robots usually replaced unskilled labor.” I agree it helped in the past, but currently a degree is mainly used by personnel departments as a measure of your conformity and is little more that what a high school diploma used to be.Technically illiterate, they are incapable of interviewing people to detect if they have real talent. You left out the important proviso, if there ARE jobs to fill.I’m not sure that replacing unskilled labor will be the front runner for long.That requires investing in expensive hardware.Highly paid professionals are a much juicier target and software spread over many thousands is relatively cheap.Already a lot of what you read in the media is written by AI.Many labor intensive parts of legal work has started to be done by AI.Someone mentioned auto scanning of X-Ray images.A TED talk by a lady doctor demonstrated how much better the results were for diagnosing breast cancer.Etc Etc. Although I know it to be true I have trouble accepting just how fast this change is and will occur.Kurzweil opened my eyes to what the future holds for nano machines and how things will change when they become self replicating.He talks about nanobots in the blood that can fix problems in your brain and attack cancer for example.The only thing I’m sure of is how difficult it is to forecast just what will happen and that our politicians won’t be ahead of the curve. I haven't thought much about the working week. Perhaps there is some compromise for two people sharing a job providing they are paid enough. The latter is the basic problem that remains unaddressed..
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
2016-02-17 16:35 GMT+01:00 Jed Rothwell: > In the past, education helped because automation and robots usually > replaced unskilled labor. I think for the next few decades they will > continue to replace unskilled labor more quickly than skilled or > intellectual labor. For example, self driving cars will replace taxi > drivers. Very interesting notice. with intelligent bots and AI replacing office workers what you don't need is not more educated people, because bots can be educated too . what we need is what I see glorified those days : entrepreneur spirit, pioneer spirit, disruptive ideas you cannot be smarter than a computer their way, but you can exploit them to work for you. future of "activity" maybe "invention of problems", assembling services, assembling or identifying demands and needs, ... note that if bots replace really all work, then why have money, since money is to buy work ? if machine can be build without money, why give a price to machine capital ? If design can be done by machine, why would it be expensive ? I don't beleive things will be free, but just cheaper like it happen for food, computers, energy, ... if really all we know today is automatised, even surgery, psychologist, except maybe few planet-scale experts in AI then : - what would the genious experts ask to the society tha bots will not propose ... name that NEW SERVICE, "NS". - then NS will be proposed by non robots who are not "experts"... they will thus be paid by experts who will be paid for their work, that they will obtaine from a tax on all goods. thus goods will have price. - people gaining money for NS, will use part of their money to pay for NS, and for goods... but most will be for NS. - ther will be more people offering NS to people fworking for NS - people not working for NS will need money , not muc, to provide NS if not toexperts but to first or second level of NS providers... OK I stop what I describe is just an economy... NS will be all human service that people value and that robots cannot provide. it is human interaction, if bots do all else. it may also be manual made goods, considered as luxury. it may be cultural goods, ethnic tradiction goods, and services (shox, art) it may be talking, sex, care, advices, even if bots can give you all of that for cheaper... don't forget that people were using most of their time and money just for food... now many have gadgets, and many use tourism of leisure services.
[Vo]:Intelligent Robots
It seems to me that, as a practical matter, some sort of socialism or communism must emerge by default. If human society is no longer directed by the dictates of a supposed personal Creator, then another basis for common morality must be found. I think that would be service to the many, humanity as a whole. In addition, a reverence for life for those mystically inclined. The ethical vacuum left by organized religion's decline will be filled somehow. This could even be precipitous if extraterrestrial life is discovered. The drift towards nihilism will not sustain our civilization for very long. It's too bad Startrek isn't around anymore because it got people to think about these future challenges.
[Vo]:the same trend in LENR info. & about its sacred cows
Good surprises are necessary. http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2016/02/feb-17-2016-lenr-sacred-cow-candidates.html Best wishes, Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
Hello Ludwik, No, communism was old already when introduced in Russia (even older in Poland). However, if we stay with that side of the communism that deals with distribution of basic needs it has it points. The problem is that it decides that one group has too little and that that has to be justified with all and any means. This is a different situation today and the argument has very little traction. I believe that one need to have a way to distribute basic needs not only within a country but globally. Otherwise there is no way of dealing with the future robot society. You cannot have people in a third world country working 70 / 80 hours per week and just get the basics if people three hours away can work 8 hours a week for the same reward. As the world has better communications the differences will decrease. I do not think that such borders will survive. I think Eric is righ;t robots will only be able/allowed to handle so much. There will be a need for change of attitudes and valued will be based differently. I know that people (in general), of working class 125 to 150 years ago had no ambitions to develop their personality or travel for educational reasons. They had their day cut out trying to survive. During this period since then we have already made great progress to offer everyone the basic needs in the west. This development is under way at a much higher speed in all other countries today. I predict one can live with similar security and promise of basic needs almost anywhere in the world within 25 years. It is possible that the direct connection between producing and reward will to some extent survive this period. However, if the requirement for being productive is very low, like 8 hours per week, then this direct relation will have to change. I hope to the better. Once again I agree with Eric that there is a big risk that the transition will be difficult. LENR would certainly help that transition. Disturbing to me is that even here in the west, we cannot focus on adopting the new technologies. We are still worried over that jobs are moving to China and India. That is instead of building new infrastructure that utilize the new possibilities. We still think that GM and similar giant organizations will be in the lead. We even save them when they fail because they have outlived there usefulness. We are afraid of the change! China and India will not stay long as the low cost labor resource. Robots and even less fortunate areas in the world will become the future cheap labor resource. Don't you think a Chinese will ask for the same privileges as a US or a German citizen? Of course they will. I could add something about, smaller and more flexible organizations all over the field, but . . . :) Best Regards , Lennart Thornros lenn...@thornros.com +1 916 436 1899 Whatever you vividly imagine, ardently desire, sincerely believe and enthusiastically act upon, must inevitably come to pass. (PJM) On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Eric Walkerwrote: > About education -- in a future in which the economic difficulties being > discussed are worked out to some extent, there will be a lot of free time. > Furthering one's education seems like a good way to spend some of this > time. I suspect that education will change significantly in the next 200 > years, which is not to suggest that it will be unrecognizable. But if there > is less pressure to get a job in order to survive and prosper, there may be > less pressure to obtain a bachelor's degree, in contrast to getting > specific certifications, which could potentially undercut the current > tuition inflation. > > About the replacement of jobs by robots -- this is obviously happening and > will increasingly happen. But I think the argument only goes so far. Not > all creative jobs carried out by people will be replaced by robotic labor > (I don't think anyone is arguing the extreme version of this). I doubt > there will ever be a time when robotic art, or music, or essays, political > analyses or high-end mandolins will ever rival the best work of humans. > This is not to say that many jobs that are currently somewhat creative will > not be replaced. > > To elaborate, consider that for the last 50-60 years people have been > infatuated with fast food, which has a consistent taste and presentation > wherever you buy it. There has been a similar uniformity in homes, > suburban neighborhoods, furniture and fruit and vegetables. But in recent > years there has been a general reassessment of these kinds of preferences, > and people have become more willing to pay more for the hand-made and > idiosyncratic stuff. I see this trend increasing over time. In addition, > there are areas that people may naturally gravitate towards, such as > gardening, which, although the work could be capably carried out by a > sufficiently intelligent set of robots, people might want to do > themselves. The main point, then, is that in an economy in
[Vo]:Re: Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
Why does such a data base not already exist?—maybe radiologists are afraid of being left out of the picture. Bob Cook From: Axil Axil Sent: Wednesday, February 17, 2016 9:13 AM To: vortex-l Subject: Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs One advancement is global data "accumulation and application". A demetoligent or radiologist automaton will accumulate a global data base which contains all the images of shin cancer or the x-rays associated with a given condition from all over the world over many decades. an AI will use that data (billions of cases) to make a diagnosis. The diagnosis will be far more accurate based on this data base than any experience that a human can provide by many orders of magnitude. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Jed Rothwellwrote: Ludwik Kowalski wrote: We believed that in the next economic system, Communism, people will be receiving goods "according to their needs, not according to their work. In the distant future, hundreds of years from now, it is certain that things will work out this way, because there will be no need for any human labor, and because the technology for things like robots will be in the public domain and available to everyone at no cost. I mean that patents will have expired, and the technology will be so cheap with automatic replication machines that there will be no way to charge anyone for it. Cold fusion may be the first technology to reduce a major world-scale expense to zero, but others will surely follow. People will eventually have all the food they want for free, or nearly for free, from small automated farms. See: http://www.freightfarms.com/ http://www.freightfarms.com/features/ These may even be built into houses. You see them in some Japanese restaurants already. When you order a salad, the waitress cut the lettuce from a glass automated greenhouse next to you. Two hundred years from now, trying to charge the customer for the use of cold fusion or for a new robot would be like trying to charge a person nowadays for gathering sticks and making a bonfire, or trying to charge a person for gathering rocks on his own property and making a stone wall in Pennsylvania. Fire and simple stone construction techniques are millions of years old. No one controls them. In Pennsylvania, a skilled person can charge a lot of money to gather rocks and build a stone retaining wall in a barn. This takes a great deal of skill, special tools, mortar and so on. The rocks may come from the property owner's own land a few meters away, but you can still charge for the labor. However, in the distant future, a large robot will download the skills needed to do this, and it will do the job for free. There may still be some incidental expenses for mortar, specialized tools, a building permit and so on. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
About education -- in a future in which the economic difficulties being discussed are worked out to some extent, there will be a lot of free time. Furthering one's education seems like a good way to spend some of this time. I suspect that education will change significantly in the next 200 years, which is not to suggest that it will be unrecognizable. But if there is less pressure to get a job in order to survive and prosper, there may be less pressure to obtain a bachelor's degree, in contrast to getting specific certifications, which could potentially undercut the current tuition inflation. About the replacement of jobs by robots -- this is obviously happening and will increasingly happen. But I think the argument only goes so far. Not all creative jobs carried out by people will be replaced by robotic labor (I don't think anyone is arguing the extreme version of this). I doubt there will ever be a time when robotic art, or music, or essays, political analyses or high-end mandolins will ever rival the best work of humans. This is not to say that many jobs that are currently somewhat creative will not be replaced. To elaborate, consider that for the last 50-60 years people have been infatuated with fast food, which has a consistent taste and presentation wherever you buy it. There has been a similar uniformity in homes, suburban neighborhoods, furniture and fruit and vegetables. But in recent years there has been a general reassessment of these kinds of preferences, and people have become more willing to pay more for the hand-made and idiosyncratic stuff. I see this trend increasing over time. In addition, there are areas that people may naturally gravitate towards, such as gardening, which, although the work could be capably carried out by a sufficiently intelligent set of robots, people might want to do themselves. The main point, then, is that in an economy in which scarcity is not a motivating factor, people will not be forced to do undignified work. All of that is very bright and rosy. I am pessimistic that the transition to such a future will be a smooth and pleasant one. Eric
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
One advancement is global data "accumulation and application". A demetoligent or radiologist automaton will accumulate a global data base which contains all the images of shin cancer or the x-rays associated with a given condition from all over the world over many decades. an AI will use that data (billions of cases) to make a diagnosis. The diagnosis will be far more accurate based on this data base than any experience that a human can provide by many orders of magnitude. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Jed Rothwellwrote: > Ludwik Kowalski wrote: > > >> We believed that in the next economic system, Communism, people will be >> receiving goods "according to their needs, not according to their work. >> > > In the distant future, hundreds of years from now, it is certain that > things will work out this way, because there will be no need for any human > labor, and because the technology for things like robots will be in the > public domain and available to everyone at no cost. I mean that patents > will have expired, and the technology will be so cheap with automatic > replication machines that there will be no way to charge anyone for it. > Cold fusion may be the first technology to reduce a major world-scale > expense to zero, but others will surely follow. > > People will eventually have all the food they want for free, or nearly for > free, from small automated farms. See: > > http://www.freightfarms.com/ > > http://www.freightfarms.com/features/ > > These may even be built into houses. You see them in some Japanese > restaurants already. When you order a salad, the waitress cut the lettuce > from a glass automated greenhouse next to you. > > Two hundred years from now, trying to charge the customer for the use of > cold fusion or for a new robot would be like trying to charge a person > nowadays for gathering sticks and making a bonfire, or trying to charge a > person for gathering rocks on his own property and making a stone wall in > Pennsylvania. Fire and simple stone construction techniques are millions of > years old. No one controls them. > > In Pennsylvania, a skilled person can charge a lot of money to gather > rocks and build a stone retaining wall in a barn. This takes a great deal > of skill, special tools, mortar and so on. The rocks may come from the > property owner's own land a few meters away, but you can still charge for > the labor. However, in the distant future, a large robot will download the > skills needed to do this, and it will do the job for free. There may still > be some incidental expenses for mortar, specialized tools, a building > permit and so on. > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots make millions of jobs
Technology is a double edge sward. It gives and it takes away. For the more savvy it can give employment. A few years ago, I could never publish books or sell software. Now with a click of a button my products are available world wide. They are available from Japan, across Europe, to US. I could not have dreamed of this a few years ago. My latest product Monitoring has just been released. It was made for the builder and inventors. I am issuing a second release now. It will have improved images and help text. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Ddigital-text=%22znidarsic+science+books%22=n%3A133140011%2Ck%3A%22znidarsic+science+books%22 In case you are wondering where the orb came form it is here: http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/backups/monitoring/binockulars.jpg Frank Znidarsic
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
Ludwik Kowalskiwrote: > We believed that in the next economic system, Communism, people will be > receiving goods "according to their needs, not according to their work. > In the distant future, hundreds of years from now, it is certain that things will work out this way, because there will be no need for any human labor, and because the technology for things like robots will be in the public domain and available to everyone at no cost. I mean that patents will have expired, and the technology will be so cheap with automatic replication machines that there will be no way to charge anyone for it. Cold fusion may be the first technology to reduce a major world-scale expense to zero, but others will surely follow. People will eventually have all the food they want for free, or nearly for free, from small automated farms. See: http://www.freightfarms.com/ http://www.freightfarms.com/features/ These may even be built into houses. You see them in some Japanese restaurants already. When you order a salad, the waitress cut the lettuce from a glass automated greenhouse next to you. Two hundred years from now, trying to charge the customer for the use of cold fusion or for a new robot would be like trying to charge a person nowadays for gathering sticks and making a bonfire, or trying to charge a person for gathering rocks on his own property and making a stone wall in Pennsylvania. Fire and simple stone construction techniques are millions of years old. No one controls them. In Pennsylvania, a skilled person can charge a lot of money to gather rocks and build a stone retaining wall in a barn. This takes a great deal of skill, special tools, mortar and so on. The rocks may come from the property owner's own land a few meters away, but you can still charge for the labor. However, in the distant future, a large robot will download the skills needed to do this, and it will do the job for free. There may still be some incidental expenses for mortar, specialized tools, a building permit and so on. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:How to test an ADGEX ELFE Flashlight.
From: Esa Ruoho Ø Hmm Jones, sounds interesting. How would you use an audio monitor to look for correlations with the lumen output? The Russians are claiming the power source is Schumann resonance, which is extremely low frequency (ELF) waves, mostly inaudible to humans, which can be EMF or vibrational. You can download a simple low frequency spectrum analyzer software to use with a bass microphone and your computer. Data-logging is another skill set which you may not want to take on. However, as a musician, this may be of special interest in one sense. Maybe you have already incorporated Schumann resonance into you music? Supposedly whales use it as a carrier wave on which their own call is based on octaves of the Schumann. Schumann resonance can be generated by lightning discharges in the cavity formed between the Earth's surface and the ionosphere and appears at 7.83 Hz (fundamental), 14.3, 20.8, 27.3 and 33.8 Hz. The Russian video claims an “antenna” is built into the flashlight – so maybe their secret is to have developed a super antenna for amplifying resonance based on a 7.83 Hz fundamental. This is an extremely long wavelength so skepticism is fully warranted. I hope there is something there but you will need to correlate the resonance with the light output – somehow – to prove this.
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
a.ashfieldwrote: Please explain why more education will help when there aren't enough jobs. > The estimates I see suggest there will only be one new job for every five > that are lost. > In the past, education helped because automation and robots usually replaced unskilled labor. I think for the next few decades they will continue to replace unskilled labor more quickly than skilled or intellectual labor. For example, self driving cars will replace taxi drivers. I do not think more education is an adequate response to the problem, but it may help. Up until the 1930s, in the U.S. we responded to automation by reducing the work week from around 60 hours to 40 hours. The 2 day weekend became common. It might help to reduce the work week to 4 days (32 hours), with a 3-day weekend, leaving salaries more or less where they are now. This would spread around the remaining labor. Beyond that, there would be no point to a 3-day work week. For most jobs, in order to stay proficient and stay on top of events you have to go at least 4 days a week. In a job such as programming, or piloting airplanes, you lose proficiency remarkably quickly. (So the pilots tell me.) Even a 3-day weekend might have an impact. Nowadays many working poor people hold 2 or 3 jobs, working more than 40 hours a week, because they are not paid a living wage. This increases unemployment. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Intelligent robots threaten millions of jobs
Please explain why more education will help when there aren't enough jobs. The estimates I see suggest there will only be one new job for every five that are lost. Yes, I agree and wrote about how robotics is moving up the ladder challenging more skilled jobs. For example a fully automated hospital pharmacy in CA fills 10,000 prescriptions a day without the need of a pharmacist. Until the educational system is reformed, it is very poor value for money and will likely just saddle the recipients with debt.
Re: [Vo]:How to test an ADGEX ELFE Flashlight.
Hmm Jones, sounds interesting. How would you use an audio monitor to look for correlations with the lumen output? I'm afraid I don't have RF meter, Oscilloscope or Radiation Monitor or Lux / Lumen Meter. On 16 February 2016 at 20:45, Jones Beenewrote: > *From:* Esa Ruoho > > > > Ø Ok, so, anyone have any ideas on how to test this "emits light using > free energy" flashlight designed by ADGEX ELFE? > > Yes. There are many relevant tests which can and should happen without > opening the device. Some sound superficial but they provide data points of > interest as a whole. Do not over-stress it initially and give it benefit of > doubt. There will always be time to do destructive testing later. Much > later. > > > > I will list the testing that come to mind which do not require opening the > device. A lumen meter is essential. > > > > 1) With a lumen meter, obtain light emission data over short on-off > time cycles in lumens, using recommended cycles (do not deplete the device > at the start and let it recharge overnight) > > 2) Compare the rate of lumen drop-off, minute by minute and day by > day for several weeks. Data log everything > > 3) Attach thermocouples and compare the case temperature vs lumen > output. This can be done at the same time as above. > > 4) Use an RF meter, oscilloscope, audio monitor and radiation > monitor to look for correlations with lumen output. > > 5) If anomalies turn up, try to correlate to astrological of local > events such as sunspots or earthquakes > > 6) Test the light output near wireless routers and other sources of > wave energy > > 7) Let the device recharge overnight near various sources of wave > energy to look for changes in light output the following day - based on > proximity to power sources during recharge > > 8) Do all of these tests in a city vs in a rural area and compare > results > > > > This should require a couple of months to do correctly – after which or > sooner, you may decide there is no anomaly at all – but if there is, you > will probably know the parameters which affect it. > > > > > > > -- --- http://twitter.com/esaruoho // http://lackluster.bandcamp.com // +358403703659 // skype:esajuhaniruoho // http://esaruoho.tumblr.com/ // iMessage: esaru...@gmail.com //