RE: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
I accidentally hit the send button before I was complexly finished composing the original post. Let me follow up my take on sam. As far as I can tell Sam presents no actual evidence in his post as to why he thinks BLP Mills is a scam operation. What he does state, and this is quite revealing, is that he is upset over the fact that three of his own science articles posted out to Wikipedia had been removed whereas Dr. Mills posts were not. IOW, Sam sounds like a crank extraordinaire to me, and a rather spiteful one at that. From Daniel: I guess Witch Doctor is right about BLP. ;) In regards to prior Witch Doctor commentary on BLP, I don't believe they have ever stated anything that implies Mills Co. is a scam operation. Far from it. As I understand it, in all prior critiques their main concern has always been that from their perspective BLP's CQM theory was inaccurate, and that when those inaccuracies presumably become more obvious to all involved it may cause a lot of internal turmoil. (This perspective has also been speculated within Vortex as well.) This combined with that fact that from the WD perspective the company has not made sufficient progress in capitalizing on the phenomenon they have detected, especially considering the number of years BLP has been working in the field. That does not in any way constitute statements that imply that BLP is a scam operation, nor that they haven't detected excess heat. I would suspect that BLP has most certainly detected excess heat. It's more a matter that they have yet to find a way to engineer a process that can commercialize on their findings. The implication I take from their commentary is that perhaps inaccuracies within the CQM theory itself may be directly/indirectly responsible in hampering commercial progress, but that is only speculation on my part. Disclaimer: All of WD commentary is unsubstantiated in traditional scientific terms. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson wrote: As far as I can tell Sam presents no actual evidence in his post as to why he thinks BLP Mills is a scam operation. What he does state, and this is quite revealing, is that he is upset over the fact that three of his own science articles posted out to Wikipedia had been removed whereas Dr. Mills posts were not. In that case, he should campaign against Wikipedia. Now _that_ would be a quixotic mission! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
I think with so much money invested and nothing delivered, no independent tests whatsoever, it is hard to think this is not a scam. They would easily have money to test all other theories of LENR and come with something useful.
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
From Daniel I think with so much money invested and nothing delivered, no independent tests whatsoever, it is hard to think this is not a scam. I disagree. There is also some disagreement on the aspect of how one determines an independent test. BLP would say yes independent tests have been performed. Skeptics, OTOH, would cry foul. IMO, BLP is an honorable company. They believe in their product. What remains to be seen is whether BLP can deliver on their vision. I would speculate that the BLP process, whatever that process might be, is largely defined by perceptions laid out in Randy's grandiose CQM theory. Personally, my perception of CQM is that it probably does reveal certain secrets (extraordinarily so) as to what's happening on the atomic scale. However, that does not necessarily mean that ALL the secrets as revealed in the CQM book are accurate. ... They would easily have money to test all other theories of LENR and come with something useful. It is not in BLP's invested interest to test other theories. As far as BLP is concerned CQM is the only way to go. From their perspective, why bother giving lip service to false prophets. Nevertheless, it remains to be seen who the false prophets are. Often, it's the prophets themselves who turn out to be the last to discover the falseness of their claims. In the end, BLP may still surprise us. They may still pull something interesting out of the hat. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
Do you really think the scarcity of experimental results justifies the investment of 60mil$? It is easier to think that they just bribed a few other researchers just to fake results. This amount of money is enough to come with a proff of concept for any form of fusion, even tokamak.
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
From Daniel Do you really think the scarcity of experimental results justifies the investment of 60mil$? It is easier to think that they just bribed a few other researchers just to fake results. This amount of money is enough to come with a proff of concept for any form of fusion, even tokamak. Well, you obviously seem to believe it would be easy for BLP to simply bribe a couple of people in order to fake results. Really? I beg to differ. Also, your claim that there exist a scarcity of experimental results does not strike me as an accurate statement either. Granted, experiments published so far may be open to interpretation, including as to who ran them, that does not mean there exist a scarcity. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Do you really think the scarcity of experimental results justifies the investment of 60mil$? You are not privy to the results, so you have no idea whether there is a scarcity or a plethora of results. You have not read the contract so you have no idea whether BLP ever promised experimental results, or an actual product delivery of some sort. You do no know, and you cannot judge. Yes, it might be a scam, but until one of the investors files suit, you have no way of knowing this. Many scientific research and RD projects cost large sums and come to nothing. Hundreds of millions are spent on cancer drugs that do not work. The Japanese NEDO cold fusion project, and the 60-year-long $100 billion plasma fusion program were abject failures and a waste of money. But not scams. (There is some evidence that the NEDO program actually produced positive results which they covered up. That would be a scam in the other direction. Assuming that is not true, it was not a scam.) It is easier to think that they just bribed a few other researchers just to fake results. This is out of the question. The people making the investments are highly knowledgeable experts in energy and research. They could spot fake results easily. This amount of money is enough to come with a proff of concept for any form of fusion, even tokamak. No. A tokamak costs billions, even for one that does not produce useful levels of energy. You can't buy one that produces useful energy at any price. Even the ITER will not do this. It is presently estimated to cost $12 billion, and who knows how much it will really cost. All tokamaks produce some excess energy. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.comwrote: All tokamaks produce some excess energy. As do skeptics. T
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
I talked about proof of concept, not a working device. Even FP fit in this description. But BLP didn't show anything that already worked. For example, look at this tokamak: http://www.toodlepip.com/tokamak/pictures/tm1.jpg And it was not even one of the first.
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
How can you justify 60mil? Even this: http://www.generalfusion.com/ Didn't require all those millions and it is a massive device.
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
In this new Mills patent, you can see where some of the investment capital went in the blacklight power venture: http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20110114075 It looks to me like Mills and associates must have gone through all possible hydride reactions with every possible transition metal. Mills must have spent a ton of money and a huge amount of time to experimentally verify the contents of this patent. The Rossi secret sauce hydride reaction must be somewhere included in this encyclopedic list of hydride reactions. It also looks to me that Mills has secured the intellectual property rights to the catalyst used in the Rossi reactor just by patenting every possible exothermic hydride catalyst combination. On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:24 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Do you really think the scarcity of experimental results justifies the investment of 60mil$? It is easier to think that they just bribed a few other researchers just to fake results. This amount of money is enough to come with a proff of concept for any form of fusion, even tokamak.
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
So, Mills is trying the same approach as farma companies do, massively parallel testing substances. But I don't think Rossi's catalyzer is about substance, but rather in how the lattice of the substance is arranged spatially.
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
Daniel Rocha wrote: So, Mills is trying the same approach as farma companies do, massively parallel testing substances. But I don't think Rossi's catalyzer is about substance, but rather in how the lattice of the substance is arranged spatially. These remarkable instruments described at ICCF16 can do a three-dimensional analysis of substances on the scale of an SEM. They can micro-section materials and produce both a SEM photo with a spacial analysis while also recording the elements in each location. I believe they can characterize a lattice as fcc, bcc and so on. As I said, I was astounded at the capabilities. Something like this would be a big help to reverse engineering a product. The SEM alone cannot do the whole job. Even if you know how the lattice is shaped and what elements and compounds it includes, you still may not know how to fabricate a similar arrangement. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
That's the Rossi's secret sauce! 2011/8/11 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com The SEM alone cannot do the whole job. Even if you know how the lattice is shaped and what elements and compounds it includes, you still may not know how to fabricate a similar arrangement. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
Daniel Rocha wrote: That's the Rossi's secret sauce! The SEM alone cannot do the whole job. Even if you know how the lattice is shaped and what elements and compounds it includes, you still may not know how to fabricate a similar arrangement. Right! If he has a secret sauce (a viable trade secret) it would be how he fabricates the material, not the content of the material. He might not have a viable trade secret. Perhaps expert in materials will look at the powder and quickly determine how it is made. They might even improve on it easily. In the past, when new discoveries were revealed to the public, they were often rendered obsolete quickly because experts not only saw how to replicate, they saw how to improve on the original. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
I am going from memory here, but Rossi said early on that the secret additive is absolutely required to get useful energy out of his core. Using the nickel powder alone does not produce heat. The Rossi process is the amalgamation of multiple mechanisms each of which when taken separately fail to produce meaningful results. Only when properly combined and taken together does the set of mechanisms produce results. On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Daniel Rocha wrote: That's the Rossi's secret sauce! The SEM alone cannot do the whole job. Even if you know how the lattice is shaped and what elements and compounds it includes, you still may not know how to fabricate a similar arrangement. Right! If he has a secret sauce (a viable trade secret) it would be how he fabricates the material, not the content of the material. He might not have a viable trade secret. Perhaps expert in materials will look at the powder and quickly determine how it is made. They might even improve on it easily. In the past, when new discoveries were revealed to the public, they were often rendered obsolete quickly because experts not only saw how to replicate, they saw how to improve on the original. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
From: OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson ... What tends to happen under these kinds of circumstances where someone appears to be on a self-righteous kamikaze mission to destroy the reputation of an individual and his company. Hmm... Funny thing this question came up as I had been reading the wisdom of Dilbert: Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
I guess Witch Doctor is right about BLP. ;)
Re: [Vo]:On a Quixotic mission
Is this the whole thing? Does Sam Michael present any evidence that Blacklight Power is a scam? As far as I can tell, Steven Johnson quoted the entire set of assertions: “Sam” claims: I take the risk of slander/libel here but must take a stand to protect investors and the general public about a HUGE scam that has been propagating for YEARS: Blacklight Power.” etc. I doubt Mills would bother to sue for libel because: 1. Lots of people say this about Blacklight power. 2. Sam makes no specific allegations, such as (for example): the name of a party who has been scammed, the contract promises not kept, technical claims not met, or what-have-you. If everyone involved in the transaction expresses satisfaction, and none of the parties involved files a lawsuit or complains in public, I do not see this could be construed as a scam. At worst, it would be a technical venture that failed. Most technical ventures fail. In other words, scamming is not a victim-less crime. If there are no dissatisfied parties, and no one comes forward and says Blacklight Power misled them or failed to produce something it was contractually obligated to produce, it is not a scam. It may be a stupid idea. It may be a physical impossibility. But it is not a scam. I suppose BLP's lawyers write those contracts carefully to avoid making promises they may not be able to keep. Sam is making a baseless accusation with no specifics and nothing legally actionable as far as I can see. He is expressing his own opinion. It is no different from saying BLP sounds like a scam to me or opening a cupcake store in Atlanta sounds like a losing proposition, since that fad is over. Sam would have to say Company X paid a sum of money to BLP under a contract that promised deliverable Y. Y was never delivered, and Company X is now suing. That is verifiable. If it is not true, Sam would be liable for libel. - Jed
