Re: Lion and WO
roughly 20 million rows in a table with ~120 columns in the table. On Jul 27, 2011, at 1:14 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: Hi Andrew. What exactly was the scale/size of your MySQL database that caused it to fall over? Row count? (Row count x field count) max? Regards, Kieran. (Sent from my iPhone) On Jul 26, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Andrew Satori d...@druware.com wrote: To a degree, but if you have committed to the MySQL way to get past it's core weaknesses, you have also made transitioning to anything else very very hard. In the case of Facebook, they have hit the wall where the front end is still scaling, but the backend is not. It is so wedded to it's MySQL roots though, they are not in a position to replace the backend with something that scales well. OpenBase, FrontBase, and to a lesser degree, PostgreSQL limit how much of this trap by implementing a greater subset of 'common' functionality. That comes at the cost of some friendly behaviors towards web development though. On Jul 26, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Travis Britt wrote: FWIW, once you reach that level scaling on *anything* is hard. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 26, 2011, at 6:02 AM, d...@druware.com wrote: Well, the issue I have in general is that the market seems to have adopted a MySQL or commercial mindset. MySQL is, to put it mildly, a trap. Skipping over the license issues, and going straight to the real stuff, MySQL has been shown repeatedly to have very real and finite limits on growth and scalability. Google, twitter, facebook, etc have all built foundations on MySQL only to hit walls, and implement obscenely expensive workarounds. The problem is that the alternatives do not cater to the web dev platform, and they lose in the startup phases despite long term advantages. LAMP has become a liability. Too many people assume with knowing, and it is killing techs like WO. It gets worse when you mix in python and coredata/sqllite. Ever used apple's teams wiki server. Uggh, what a mess. It will come full circle. I still have a coup,e WO projects but most of my new work is objective c or c++ cgi implementation. It is fast, scalable, portable, and I do not have to deal with 10 layers of stack to make things work. I love WO, I hate the scripting environments, and .net is an equal disaster to LAMP. Basically, the web toolkits have gotten worse, not better. -- Sent from my HP TouchPad On Jul 25, 2011 11:51 PM, Chuck Hill ch...@global-village.net wrote: FrontBase is pretty quiet these days too, though the dev list does see some traffic and there are new releases. Marketing a proprietary SQL database these days is swimming upstream, you can't expect wide success. FrontBase fills a niche market, of which WO is probably less and less every year. As long as their goal is to target their niche (and they do so well), they will keep going. Neither FrontBase or OpenBase are ever going to replace MySQL. On 2011-07-25, at 8:45 PM, Tim Worman wrote: Now that right there IS funny. But if no one were on the list to see that and laugh, then I'd have to develop in something other than WO. :-) Tim Worman UCLA GSEIS On Jul 25, 2011, at 8:36 PM, John Huss wrote: I don't know what I would do if I was using some proprietary technology that hadn't been updated in years, with almost no communication from the company in charge of it! What is that like? ;-) On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:22 PM, Tim Worman li...@thetimmy.com wrote: Openbase has been a great product from day one. And integrating it with WO definitely is seamless. I'm a fan. But the developer list has fallen completely silent and it used to be vibrant. The product hasn't had any public updates since 2009 - I don't think it is because there is nothing to do. I'm in no hurry at all to move my server but I do have to develop against something and that can't be Openbase if I'm running Lion. The tweet indicating that a beta has been released is one of only two from the company since Feb 2010. Tim Worman UCLA GSEIS ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists%40thetimmy.com This email sent to li...@thetimmy.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net This email sent to ch...@global-village.net -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge
Re: Lion and WO
You asked, about rows and columns so I answered. I know what killed it. I know why. I know what I could have done to prevent it and work around it. The net result is that in order to get the performance I needed, I was going to have to alter things to be MySQL specific, rather than the standard syntax that works across multiple backends. Hardware was not the limit. The data in question was in how MySQL coped with a 5th normal structure and pulling in detail information associated with a master entry record. The problems stemmed from the join and a table scan caused my MySQL's inability properly user the index. The same request against the same data in every other platform of note executed better than 2x as fast as the MySQL implementation, in some cases on the same hardware, but most on inferior hardware. I understand your point, and yes, there are/were solutions. My point being, that MySQL has limitations. They can be overcome, but the further you push it, the more difficult and expensive they become. Unfortunately, I've been down this path a few times with several platforms. MySQL, OpenBase, MSSQL, Oracle, Informix, Sybase, DB/2, and PostgreSQL to name a few (I have only used FrontBase for prototyping so I have no deployment experience with it and do not include it for that reason). Everyone one of them has trade-offs and limits. Based upon that experience, for any project I start today, PosgreSQL would be my first choice, with Oracle and MSSQL being 2nd and 3rd. MySQL would be absolutely dead last. *if* it was a project that had Twitter size scaling issues, I would consider altering that to use DB/2 as the platform of choice, because of it's ability to cleanly scale to IBM's z series hardware, but even then I would have to weigh the benefits versus the limitations of DB/2. In case it hasn't been obvious from the beginning. I loathe MySQL, both technically ( it is still basically a SQL engine grafted to a text based data engine ala PICK, DB4, Progress or Paradox ) and philosophically ( GPL applied to the data access libraries rather than LGPL ). I do not argue that both can be worked around, but bluntly spoken, if it is a serious RDBMS and it wants to play with the big boys, then I should not have to. Yes, I am heavily biased against MySQL. I do not claim to be anything else. On Jul 27, 2011, at 2:01 PM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: I find it hard to believe that such a table would cause MySQL to fall over. Possibly your engine selection, /etc/my.cnf and/or hardware/memory allocations might not have been appropriate in the setup that failed to meet your expectations. I found this book helped a few years back when I got started with MySQL http://amzn.com/0596101716 - and, as I have said before, the default out of the box settings in MySQL are dismally constrained and probably designed for someone doing basic development on a small memory PC. Other than the lack of deferred constraints, and associated workarounds, I have found MySQL to be just fine in practice for tables in the 10 to 70 million range, albeit, in production I usually try to have enough memory (relatively inexpensive) to cover the entire DB. In any case, for the average WO developer, probably any one of the popular dbs such as Frontbase, MySQL or PostgreSQL would be just fine. If I was starting right now and had to spend the time becoming familiar with the detailed ins/outs/ and configuration of a new database platform, I would probably try PostgreSQL since it has deferred constraints and it is open source. Cheers, Kieran On Jul 27, 2011, at 9:48 AM, Andrew Satori wrote: roughly 20 million rows in a table with ~120 columns in the table. On Jul 27, 2011, at 1:14 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: Hi Andrew. What exactly was the scale/size of your MySQL database that caused it to fall over? Row count? (Row count x field count) max? Regards, Kieran. (Sent from my iPhone) On Jul 26, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Andrew Satori d...@druware.com wrote: To a degree, but if you have committed to the MySQL way to get past it's core weaknesses, you have also made transitioning to anything else very very hard. In the case of Facebook, they have hit the wall where the front end is still scaling, but the backend is not. It is so wedded to it's MySQL roots though, they are not in a position to replace the backend with something that scales well. OpenBase, FrontBase, and to a lesser degree, PostgreSQL limit how much of this trap by implementing a greater subset of 'common' functionality. That comes at the cost of some friendly behaviors towards web development though. On Jul 26, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Travis Britt wrote: FWIW, once you reach that level scaling on *anything* is hard. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 26, 2011, at 6:02 AM, d...@druware.com wrote: Well, the issue I have in general is that the market seems to have
Re: Lion and WO
for that matter neither can MSSQL, they both use select top ## * syntax instead of limit :D On Jul 27, 2011, at 2:44 PM, Ramsey Gurley wrote: On Jul 27, 2011, at 11:21 AM, Andrew Satori wrote: I've been down this path a few times with several platforms. MySQL, OpenBase, MSSQL, Oracle, Informix, Sybase, DB/2, and PostgreSQL to name a few (I have only used FrontBase for prototyping so I have no deployment experience with it and do not include it for that reason). Every one of them has trade-offs and limits. Except Sybase. It can't do LIMIT (^_^) *Ba-dump-cha*! Ramsey ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dru%40druware.com This email sent to d...@druware.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Lion and WO
To a degree, but if you have committed to the MySQL way to get past it's core weaknesses, you have also made transitioning to anything else very very hard. In the case of Facebook, they have hit the wall where the front end is still scaling, but the backend is not. It is so wedded to it's MySQL roots though, they are not in a position to replace the backend with something that scales well. OpenBase, FrontBase, and to a lesser degree, PostgreSQL limit how much of this trap by implementing a greater subset of 'common' functionality. That comes at the cost of some friendly behaviors towards web development though. On Jul 26, 2011, at 2:09 PM, Travis Britt wrote: FWIW, once you reach that level scaling on *anything* is hard. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 26, 2011, at 6:02 AM, d...@druware.com wrote: Well, the issue I have in general is that the market seems to have adopted a MySQL or commercial mindset. MySQL is, to put it mildly, a trap. Skipping over the license issues, and going straight to the real stuff, MySQL has been shown repeatedly to have very real and finite limits on growth and scalability. Google, twitter, facebook, etc have all built foundations on MySQL only to hit walls, and implement obscenely expensive workarounds. The problem is that the alternatives do not cater to the web dev platform, and they lose in the startup phases despite long term advantages. LAMP has become a liability. Too many people assume with knowing, and it is killing techs like WO. It gets worse when you mix in python and coredata/sqllite. Ever used apple's teams wiki server. Uggh, what a mess. It will come full circle. I still have a coup,e WO projects but most of my new work is objective c or c++ cgi implementation. It is fast, scalable, portable, and I do not have to deal with 10 layers of stack to make things work. I love WO, I hate the scripting environments, and .net is an equal disaster to LAMP. Basically, the web toolkits have gotten worse, not better. -- Sent from my HP TouchPad On Jul 25, 2011 11:51 PM, Chuck Hill ch...@global-village.net wrote: FrontBase is pretty quiet these days too, though the dev list does see some traffic and there are new releases. Marketing a proprietary SQL database these days is swimming upstream, you can't expect wide success. FrontBase fills a niche market, of which WO is probably less and less every year. As long as their goal is to target their niche (and they do so well), they will keep going. Neither FrontBase or OpenBase are ever going to replace MySQL. On 2011-07-25, at 8:45 PM, Tim Worman wrote: Now that right there IS funny. But if no one were on the list to see that and laugh, then I'd have to develop in something other than WO. :-) Tim Worman UCLA GSEIS On Jul 25, 2011, at 8:36 PM, John Huss wrote: I don't know what I would do if I was using some proprietary technology that hadn't been updated in years, with almost no communication from the company in charge of it! What is that like? ;-) On Mon, Jul 25, 2011 at 10:22 PM, Tim Worman li...@thetimmy.com wrote: Openbase has been a great product from day one. And integrating it with WO definitely is seamless. I'm a fan. But the developer list has fallen completely silent and it used to be vibrant. The product hasn't had any public updates since 2009 - I don't think it is because there is nothing to do. I'm in no hurry at all to move my server but I do have to develop against something and that can't be Openbase if I'm running Lion. The tweet indicating that a beta has been released is one of only two from the company since Feb 2010. Tim Worman UCLA GSEIS ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists%40thetimmy.com This email sent to li...@thetimmy.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40global-village.net This email sent to ch...@global-village.net -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
WOComponent Editor no longer displays wod?
Alright, having battled through getting WOLips working on the new machine, I am having a new issue :(. In the newer environment, I no longer see the WOD editor when editing the HTML, and I have to open the WOD editor in a seperate window. This can't be expected behavior. So suggestions on what I've done wrong ? ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: WOComponent Editor no longer displays wod?
Forget it, Eclipse has set it's height to 0. On May 29, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Andrew Satori wrote: Alright, having battled through getting WOLips working on the new machine, I am having a new issue :(. In the newer environment, I no longer see the WOD editor when editing the HTML, and I have to open the WOD editor in a seperate window. This can't be expected behavior. So suggestions on what I've done wrong ? ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dru %40druware.com This email sent to d...@druware.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Frustrated by WO / Eclipse / WOLips :(
Alright, so I am not an 'old school' WO dev. I have used it for a few years now for several projects and overall I really like the platform. That said, I am so frustrated by the tools right now, I am about to throw the whole platform in the trash bin. Up until about 3 weeks ago, I was managing, though not terribly thrilled with the WOLips/Eclipse toolchain. Then my old laptop lost a hard disk. So I replaced it with a new MacBook Pro (great machine btw). Installed Xcode and WO. Downloaded Eclipse, ran WOLips install (both the all in one and the get updates route), opened current projects, none of them will build. None of the WO Library jar's and frameworks can be found. 2 nights of Googling and poking and prodding, I finally have the projects building (yay!), but now, no debugging. It just doesn't work. It pretends it is going to work, but no, it just sits there waiting and then eventually comes back with: Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/webobjects/eocontrol/ EOEvent. So obviously, it can't find the application start up process. Seriously, we've got this great platform and tools that make VI and Makefile's look elegant at times. I cannot imagine how we gave seen this platform regress this badly in the last year. I look at the blog and see all the progress, but I'll be damed if I can find the information about how to make things actually work. I can't be the only one feeling these frustrations, or am I really that f'ing dumb? Dru ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Frustrated by WO / Eclipse / WOLips :(
On May 21, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 21, 2009, at 12:46 PM, Andrew Satori wrote: Alright, so I am not an 'old school' WO dev. I have used it for a few years now for several projects and overall I really like the platform. That said, I am so frustrated by the tools right now, I am about to throw the whole platform in the trash bin. Up until about 3 weeks ago, I was managing, though not terribly thrilled with the WOLips/Eclipse toolchain. Then my old laptop lost a hard disk. So I replaced it with a new MacBook Pro (great machine btw). Installed Xcode and WO. Downloaded Eclipse, ran WOLips install (both the all in one and the get updates route), opened current projects, none of them will build. None of the WO Library jar's and frameworks can be found. You could have asked then. This bug is well known and easy to address. Using a more current (e.g. Nightly) build of WOLips should also address this. 2 nights of Googling and poking and prodding, I finally have the projects building (yay!), but now, no debugging. It just doesn't work. It pretends it is going to work, but no, it just sits there waiting and then eventually comes back with: Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/webobjects/eocontrol/ EOEvent. You don't say what you did to fix this. Perhaps you made a small problem worse? I used a nightly build, and then manually added the WebObjects Library References to the project that were no longer there. So obviously, it can't find the application start up process. Seriously, we've got this great platform and tools that make VI and Makefile's look elegant at times. I cannot imagine how we gave seen this platform regress this badly in the last year. I look at the blog and see all the progress, but I'll be damed if I can find the information about how to make things actually work. I can't be the only one feeling these frustrations, or am I really that f'ing dumb? Chuck -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Come to WOWODC'09 in San Fran this June! http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc09/ ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Frustrated by WO / Eclipse / WOLips :(
On May 21, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 21, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Andrew Satori wrote: On May 21, 2009, at 4:00 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 21, 2009, at 12:46 PM, Andrew Satori wrote: Alright, so I am not an 'old school' WO dev. I have used it for a few years now for several projects and overall I really like the platform. That said, I am so frustrated by the tools right now, I am about to throw the whole platform in the trash bin. Up until about 3 weeks ago, I was managing, though not terribly thrilled with the WOLips/Eclipse toolchain. Then my old laptop lost a hard disk. So I replaced it with a new MacBook Pro (great machine btw). Installed Xcode and WO. Downloaded Eclipse, ran WOLips install (both the all in one and the get updates route), opened current projects, none of them will build. None of the WO Library jar's and frameworks can be found. You could have asked then. This bug is well known and easy to address. Using a more current (e.g. Nightly) build of WOLips should also address this. 2 nights of Googling and poking and prodding, I finally have the projects building (yay!), but now, no debugging. It just doesn't work. It pretends it is going to work, but no, it just sits there waiting and then eventually comes back with: Exception in thread main java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/webobjects/ eocontrol/EOEvent. You don't say what you did to fix this. Perhaps you made a small problem worse? I used a nightly build, and then manually added the WebObjects Library References to the project that were no longer there. The file that Joe Little sent is what was missing. Based upon my Googling, I had concluded the same thing. That's why I went to the nightly. It did build that file, and that at least allowed the References dialog to find the jar's in the WO Library. At that point, I can compile, and get a jar. I can move that Jar to a WO server, and it works. I cannot however debug locally. Chuck -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Come to WOWODC'09 in San Fran this June! http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc09/ ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Frustrated by WO / Eclipse / WOLips :(
On May 21, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On May 21, 2009, at 1:06 PM, Andrew Satori wrote: The file that Joe Little sent is what was missing. Chuck Adding to the frustration, having finally gotten a new WO app to build, and try to run, rather than come up in Safari, it attempts to load the 'Web Sevices Assistant'. This feels like the dark ages of setting up Slackware Linux from 30 some odd floppies disks in the early 90's. :( -- Chuck Hill Senior Consultant / VP Development Come to WOWODC'09 in San Fran this June! http://www.wocommunity.org/wowodc09/ ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: Apple's Support of WebObjects
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is this: The Java based WO Tools are dead (EOModeler, WOBuilder), but the Xcode based WO Tools will continue to exist and get enhancements as the pertain to Xcode in general (XCDataModeler, JAM/ANT based project support in Xcode). Based upon that I would think that EOModeler is dead, and that it's replacement is Eclipse/WOLipse. Oddly enough, though I use WO, my use of EOModeler is very limited as most of my business logic and data logic already exists in Java classes, and rather than make it confusing to support 3 years down the road, I add to that library rather than add the Modeler layer, and that XCDataModeler doesn't do Java, so it directly reading and and writing to the JDBC Data sources is probably toast. WOBuilder, well it's definately toast, but that's not a huge loss. In it's current form it has aged such that much of it's functionality is useful only for roughing in a page. The layout and hand coding of the HTML to get the JavaScript, CSS and art just right are going to be done in another tool, not WOBuilder. So yeah, it would be great to have a DreamWeaver that did WOBuilder functions, it's just not going to happen at this point, unless someone feels there is a market. At which point, someone might invest the year it would take to create a WOCoda (Coda like app for WO Pages). It's unlikely that someone is going to be Apple (though they did do Dashcode, which I would have categorically said they would not do as well). Andy On May 7, 2007, at 7:34 AM, Miguel Arroz wrote: Hi! I know people who are developing on Windows on 5.3. You just have to do something based on the FreeBSD and Linux installations description (on the WikiBook), replacing the libs, etc, and it works. With Eclipse and WOLips, of course. You are no different then on the Mac, because our tools are deprecated and will eventually stop working. So we are all in the same boat. The only diference is that you don't have a nice little installer, you have to do it by hand. Besides that, it works. Yours Miguel Arroz On 2007/05/07, at 07:36, Cheong Hee (Datasonic) wrote: I know that Apple had decided last year to deprecate/stop development of Web Objects. To add on, I would think that the support for MS Windows development and deployment is deprecated. For Windows/WO developer like me, who wish to use Windows as prime development platform, and build platform-independent applications, it is definitely not a good thing. Now we are forced to drop Windows development (Ok, not so critical) and also to drop any Windows deployment (that is quite bad indeed, from user perspective, maybe what Apple likes to see..). OK, we still have choices to deploy to other platform e.g. Linux, Solaris...; ) I really like WebObjects, it's design makes it the most powerful development package, as well as the Apple design tools allow for fast application design. The same reason why I still hook on to this tool after years (after all others have dropped and turn to others), even in a place where WO developer resource is so scarce...and distinct : ) ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/arroz% 40guiamac.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I felt like putting a bullet between the eyes of every Panda that wouldn't scr*w to save its species. -- Fight Club Miguel Arroz http://www.ipragma.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dru% 40druware.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Single sign on in multiple WOApps / passing parameters between apps
This is one of the nastier issues that faces web developers, not just WebObjects, but all of the toolkits. There are some common approaches, but in general they all have some sort of security ramifications. The issue is that no matter what method you employ, in order to maintain context across disparate applications (and in some case the same application across a stateless cluster) requires that the context information be stored on the client, meaning a Cookie. Recognizing that a Cookie is intrinsically insecure, that means you have to deal with those ramifications as a part of the design. Now, that said, you could use the webserver itself to provide security, so that a single server hosting several apps could do single point authentication (which the web browser handles and then stores locally in it's own state management). Windows only shops use this model quite a bit to use built-in security against an enterprise Active Directory tree and they can do so more or less for free. There are problem with it. Depending upon the configuration, this approach can lock out non-Windows browsers, and can also lock out Windows machines that are not members of the AD tree. You can accomplish the same thing with prudent configuration of OpenDirectory and Apache. I wouldn't recommend it though. It makes deployment a bit of a PITA among other issues. Alright, so we've covered what I would I wouldn't do. How would I solve the problem? I've done it several ways, each have 'quirks', but the solution I found that scaled and worked the best used the databse auth just like you have now. Though I did the implementation in C# and ASP.NET, the principal design would work in the WO world as well. First, I created a single private web service that was used to validate a client context to an authorized session. When the user arrived at any of the shared applications, the application performed a check for a context id in the browsers cookies for the domain. If it wasn't found, displayed the login display. If it was found, but there was no corresponding local session, it hit the web service to validate the context id, and reconstitute a local session from the web service (refreshing the session expiration in the process). If the local session does exist, there is no need to display the login, but there is still a hit to the webserver to refresh the session in order to prevent it from expiring in the shared database of sessions. The weakness is of course that context. I've seen alot of web developers dump user id's, login password combo's etc into the cookie. Every time I see this, I want to go crawl in a corner and cry. In the solution above, I stored a generated context id that was a server generated guid session id generated by the authentication web service. That guid would be commited the session database, with all of the relevant login information stored server side. The only thing stored at the browser/cookie level is an encrypted guid, that has a shelf life of the default session length (I elected to use 10 minute sessions, renewing them with each subsequent page view). A couple of notes though. For a reasonably low volume site, this is over engineered. Part of the reasons for the designs are that several of the applications in my case where load balanced across several servers and data centers. The reason I've continued to use this design is that it does scale relatively well, but retains a simple enough deployment model that new junior developers can easily integrate into it, knowing that with a couple of well documented calls to a common object, they get a fully constituted session with a well defined data set. I am just beginning to rebuild this in WO (or more specifically a single Java library) so that I can easily implement the same design in WO, only this time without the latency challenged web service and going direct to the DB from the Java library. Andy On Mar 6, 2007, at 2:30 PM, Pierre Bernard wrote: Hi! About a year ago I worked on a single sign-on system. Unfortunately, I didn't have the opportunity to complete it. I still have hopes to complete it. The basic principles are astonishingly simple: There is one application that handles authentication. When a user hits the entry page of another application, he gets a temporary redirection to the authentication application. An ID (e.g. base URL) of the originating application is passed in the URL. We also pass the ID of the freshly created WOSession. The user logs into the authentication application, creating an authenticated WO session. The user gets a standard cookie with the session's ID. Behind the scenes the authentication contacts the target application notifying the session of the user's credentials. This can be hack proofed by accepting such communications only from localhost.
Upgrading a Panther Server to WO 5.3
So what's the best method for doing this? I have an Xserve with Panther server on it, and want to bring it up to the latest WO, do I need to update to Tiger (I'd really rather hold off and move to Leopard when it ships). Andy ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO?
Actually, the voting helps. I know that there is someone looking at it already, but I'm considering it as well. I already have an XSL dev tool that we use in house that I might be able to modify as the base. What I'm most interested in is the interest, and to a lesser degree, the price people are interested at, since 'free' isn't going to do it (initially). If I tackle this, I'll probably do so in the same manner I did another project where it was a 'for a fee' project with a stated goal amount that when reached I open sourced the code. Andy On Jan 25, 2007, at 4:42 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: The question is, who is going to volunteer their time to write it? The answer is _not_ Apple however much we might like it to be. If you want to vote, vote with your coding skills. Chuck On Jan 25, 2007, at 1:34 PM, Ken Anderson wrote: Personally, I think it's silly to take votes - OF COURSE we want a replacement! :) On Jan 25, 2007, at 4:28 PM, James Cicenia wrote: +1 James Cicenia On Jan 25, 2007, at 3:12 PM, David Holt wrote: +1 David -- It's like driving a car at night. You never see further than your headlights, but you can make the whole trip that way. E. L. Doctorow from Sunbeams: http://www.thesunmagazine.org On 22 Jan 2007, at 4:05 PM, Georg Tuparev wrote: I personally believe, that life with WOBuilder is better then without, and I also thing that now it is the time to have the next generation WOBuilder replacement. Anyone counts the votes? ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/james% 40jimijon.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists% 40anderhome.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill% 40global-village.net This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Practical WebObjects - for developers who want to increase their overall knowledge of WebObjects or who are trying to solve specific problems. http://www.global-village.net/products/practical_webobjects ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dru% 40druware.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO?
I find this whole argument about Eclipse entertaining, but not productive :-). Eclipse doesn't address my original concer, and that was WOBuilder (or a successor). Arguing the merits of an editor is a no-win argument, think emacs versus vi (they both suck, they just suck in different ways, I would say the same thing about Xcode versus Eclipse). It's been done to death, and in truth, with WO moving to an Ant based build system, the choice of editors is going to become a moot point. There are people you'll never sell on Eclipse (I'm one of them, I spent many months with it and sick of fighting to make it work within my workflow and preferred work environment. Bear in mind, I spend 7-8 hours / day writing code for Windows using tools like VS.NET Borland's Delphi, and I've used at one point or another in my career most major IDE Toolchain and some that were anything but, like say Optima++ or VX-REXX, my Mac Cocoa and WO work is done in the evenings on my own time in the hopes that one day I can ditch my Windows job for a job on a platform I prefer to work in/on). What does remain relevant is the tools for working with the WO bits like the WOComponents and EOModels. I think it's been fairly well covered that WOBuilder is old and has been on life-support for some time, and the EOModeler has been largely supplanted by WOLips' Entity Modeler, OmniGraffle and to a large degree, Xcode's own Entity Modeler from Core Data (or vice versa I suppose). Earlier in this thread, I saw a couple of interesting comments, but not enough details about the implementation details that might make some of the WOBuilder comments irrelevant. Guido mention using complex xhtml components and pagewrappers, that's useful information. I know that in my case, most of my pages are made up of shared WOComponents that are just xhtml code using a few WO* classes, like WORepitions and WOStrings, and most of my layout work is done in BBEdit CSSEdit, while I use WOBuilder to wire the WO* classes into the basic page and get the 'implementation' part done there. Yes, I'd like to see a more complete WOBuilder, but I recognize that there is a soft market for it, hence my question, is there a market and at what price :-). As for PageWrappers, I'm not familiar with them in the WO context. It sounds alot like Master Pages in .NET 2. I know in .NET 2 they are compelling in some instances, but pretty much useless in a large percentage of uses, I'm curious about the implementation details, or a link to look more up if I could. I really didn't want to start an Eclipse/WOLips argument, being as that part of the equation has been made pretty clear from Apple. My concerns are entirely about the peripheral elements. Those are the bits and pieces that aren't as well mapped and, well to be blunt, I have to make a decision. Java JSP or Java WO or C# .NET for my own future. Java and WO is certainly the more Mac way, but if I have to hand code the .wo bundles, there is no advantage to using WO, and from a deployment standpoint, Java JSP is just as easy, though there are aspects about long term management that WO still has advantages. Then there is C# .NET, which frankly doesn't appeal because it's mostly a Windows technology (yes, Mono works on the Mac, yes, xsp mod_mono will host asp.net on the Mac, but performance sucks, there is no workable OS X debugger, the IDE situation is worse than that of WO and frankly performance is just horrendous on the Mac). It's certainly a spirited discussion though! On Jan 22, 2007, at 3:12 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: On Jan 22, 2007, at 12:00 PM, Miguel Arroz wrote: Hi! No offense, but if you are **permanently** working 50-60 hours a week, than there's something wrong with your job/company! Amen! When I read, When you're already working 50-60 hours a week just to meet current deadlines it makes you angry All I could think of was, Well, yes, yes it does indeed!. If I was working that much on a weekly basis, I'd be writing my Letter of Resignation not more code. The quality of my work drops rapidly after about 35 - 40 hours. I don't recall ever working with anyone that this was not true of, though I have worked with several who failed to recognize this... And by working I understand coding. Software engineering is an area where thins evolve fast, too fast sometimes. But that's a fact. The only way to keep up is by learning new things. And part of our work should be just that. I was a little surprised when saw messages in this mail-list from people that still had Obj-C apps running, and they were thinking about running them in Rosetta on the new intel machines. This is NOT the way to get things done. Things change, technology changes, everything changes. We must all be ready for that. WebObjects could even be terminated. Just like that. With luck it would be
WOBuilder in the future of WO?
Alright, so with the official 'Java-Bridge is dead' status for the future, what does this mean for WOBuilder and the graphical creation of WOComponents? As far as I can tell, that leaves editing the .wo bundles by hand. While not impossible, it is certainly a step backwards, so my question is, what is the rest of the community planning on using in place of WOBuilder? Andy ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: WOBuilder in the future of WO?
That's what I gathered, though from what I've heard/read, the real meat of the transition is from XCode /PB Jam build tools to Ant, so for editing / compiling, it looks like Xcode will continue to be a viable option, which is good, since I don't like Eclipse (yes, I know I'm definately in the minority here, but I much prefer platform native applications, and while Ecplipse is better than most, it is still not native, and has it's I'm a Java Application quirks that irritate me, it's the same reason I never felt comfortable with JBuilder on Windows. It's not that they are bad applications, far from it, they just irritate me. Editing and compiling the code is the easy part though. To me it seems like WO is the App server (and libraries), EOModeler and WOBuilder. Losing both EOModeler and WOBuilder, even in their current buggy form seems like a huge loss. That begs the question, is there a market for a replacement WOBuilder? and if so, what kind of price point could it sustain? With WebKit's editing support, it should be doable, but certainly not easy, since you'll have to be able to parse and two-way edit the .java files. I don't know, it just seems like a real loss to lose these apps... Andy On Jan 21, 2007, at 1:33 PM, Galen Rhodes wrote: From the looks of it we're supposed to use Eclipse+WOLips. I've played with it a little. Eclipse is VERY nice indeed but as far as WOLips goes I am still largely unimpressed. It definitely takes longer using the WOLips tools because they lack any form of WYSIWYG editing. Even the WOLips EOModel editor appears to lack a Diagram View which I find indispensable. Perhaps these things will come to WOLips but my last 15 years of experience with OpenSource does not leave me with much hope in this. OpenSource projects tend to reach a good enough point and then they stop progressing. -- Galen Rhodes [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. -- Robert Heinlein -- On Jan 21, 2007, at 1:21 PM, Andrew Satori wrote: Alright, so with the official 'Java-Bridge is dead' status for the future, what does this mean for WOBuilder and the graphical creation of WOComponents? As far as I can tell, that leaves editing the .wo bundles by hand. While not impossible, it is certainly a step backwards, so my question is, what is the rest of the community planning on using in place of WOBuilder? Andy ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/grhodes% 40thissmallworld.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Xcode and WO development?
I think I'm missing something, but doesn't the CoreData entity editor cope just fine with EOModels ? Andy On Dec 14, 2006, at 10:38 PM, Mike Nowak wrote: You know, in that message from Apple referenced earlier, it does say: Apple's strategy is to make WebObjects the best server-side runtime environment we can by: - Improving performance, manageability, and standards compliance - Making WO work well with ANT and the most popular IDEs, including Xcode and Eclipse - Opening and making public all standards and formats that WO depends upon So while WOBuilder and EOModeler may be problematic, Xcode is still part of the strategy, at least according to this. PS I still use EOModeler and WOBuilder myself and I guess I've just learned to work around any bugs. On Dec 11, 2006, at 4:02 PM, Clark Mueller wrote: A wise man once said, those of you who use Xcode - you're WRONG, but... I forget what came after the but. :-) Clark On 11 Dec 06, at 1:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: On Dec 11, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Calven Eggert wrote: I still use EOModeler b -- Mike Nowak Work: http://chcr.umich.edu/ Personal: http://snackdog.org/ What's today's tickle word? ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dru% 40druware.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: help for Objective C
Which is and I quote: Creates a two-tier Cocoa Java application that uses Enterprise Objects as a data access mechanism. It allows you to use Enterprise Objects within Interface Builder so that you can build nib files that display data from an application’s enterprise object instances. Andy On Mar 22, 2006, at 3:18 PM, Daniel Mejia wrote: In XCode 2.2 there is a cocoa EOF project in the New Project options. Saludos, Daniel. On Mar 22, 2006, at 2:05 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:39:23 -0600 From: Ricardo Strausz [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: help for Objective C To: WO Dev-Apple webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hola John, As Chuck said so, from version 5.0 on, WO had been compiled only for Java. However, it can be called from Cocoa's Objective-C (and therefore programmed) using the so called Java-Bridge ---I do it all the time. Even-though the technology in far from perfect, most of the work can be done with out the need to learn but the basics of Java. You can find some hints at: http://wodev.spearway.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WODev.woa/wa/Main? wikiPage=CocoaEOApplication BTW: can some one please confirm if Cocoa/EOF is still in WO for Xcode 2.1+ (I cannot see any WO in ADC any more, and I had not time to test Xc 2.1+ my self) Dino On Mar 21, 2006, at 2:07 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Message: 3 Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 11:12:40 -0800 (PST) From: john XUE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: help for Objective C To: webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Does any body know that if WebObjects 5.2 support Objective C? If so how to get Objective C project compiled and deployed with WebObjects 5.2. Any help will be very appreciated. Thanks, John J. Daniel Mejía Sánchez Evolution Technologies S.A. de C.V. Tel. (55) 5523-7503 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dru% 40druware.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
New (sorta) to WebObjects and looking for some insight.
OK, so I'm only sorta new to this, I've experimented and done many of the WO tutorials on WO a couple of times as I've flirted with WO a couple of times in the past 3 years, however this time I'm fairly seriously working to build a web application using WO. Now, for me, OpenBase isn't an option, my choices are PostgreSQL or MSSQL, with a strong preference to PostgreSQL, This isn't a soapbox thing, it's what I have invested in both knowledge and money, and switching to OpenBase means a cost that I can't afford right now. So I feel kinda handicapped right out of the gate. So I'm approaching this group hoping to gain some insight from people with more experience and knowledge than myself. I've worked with ASP, JSP and ASP.NET pretty heavily over the years, and as I sit down with WO today, what I see is an environment that implemented 'CodeBehind' logic years before ASP.NET, and deploys cleaner than a typical JSP war. Building upon just that makes WO a nice tool, I've already rebuilt my basic website with a blog style news announcements system that works, though it's using Java classes that I hand coded for a JSP implementation of another site a year or so ago, and not use EOF. Here's where I've hit a wall. I've got this WebApp, with a subpage, but I can't seem to generate a link to that subpage without first linking to it from the main page and generating a session, and I think I'm missing something that's probably incredibly obvious. For example, I want to be able to pass a link to the rss feed from the main page, something like http:// somesite/cgi-bin/WebObjects/myWebApp.woa?rss.wo or similar. This needs to be done in such a way that the it doesn't require that main link. I could obviously do this as a seperate WebApp, but that seems like wasted overhead in this instance. The second item deals directly with EOF. While I see the advantages from an intellectual standpoint, I've not had much luck in working with EOF and any DB engine other than OpenBase, usually getting syntax errors on the generated SQL. I've also tried the Project Wonder stuff, but since CVS has been impossible to get to, I can't build the EOPlugins to generate proper SQL. Which brings me to the other issue, reverse usage, using EOF with pre-existing schemas where the Primary Keys are identity (MSSQL) or serial (PostgreSQL) columns. While *read* seems to work with these models, update and insert do not. Again, I suspect User Error, probably along the lines of over complicating things based upon my background. I'm really just looking for some pointers or a gently nudge in the right direction. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to your thoughts and suggestions. Andy Satori smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: New (sorta) to WebObjects and looking for some insight.
Thanks for the quick reply
On Mar 20, 2006, at 2:53 PM, Chuck Hill wrote:
The question of PostgreSQL versus MSSQL is not really a question in
my opinion. Use PostgreSQL. In fact, I would prefer PostgreSQL
over OpenBase due to its SQL92 standard-ness. FrontBase is my
platform of choice, but it is not free for deployment. When free /
open is required, PostgreSQL is a fine solution.
I've looked at FrontBase before, but pricing has always been an
issue. I've got a large amount of money and knowledge invested in
MSSQL, where I have 30+ customers nationwide deployed on MSSQL, in
addition to my own business where I have several MSSQL and PostgreSQL
servers deployed. For me to move to FrontBase at this point would
cost me and my customers several hundreds of thousands of dollars
since we would all fall into the Small Business or larger licenses :-(.
I've worked with ASP, JSP and ASP.NET pretty heavily over the
years, and as I sit down with WO today, what I see is an
environment that implemented 'CodeBehind' logic years before
ASP.NET, and deploys cleaner than a typical JSP war. Building upon
just that makes WO a nice tool, I've already rebuilt my basic
website with a blog style news announcements system that works,
though it's using Java classes that I hand coded for a JSP
implementation of another site a year or so ago, and not use EOF.
Here's where I've hit a wall.
I've got this WebApp, with a subpage, but I can't seem to generate
a link to that subpage without first linking to it from the main
page and generating a session, and I think I'm missing something
that's probably incredibly obvious. For example, I want to be
able to pass a link to the rss feed from the main page, something
like http://somesite/cgi-bin/WebObjects/myWebApp.woa?rss.wo or
similar. This needs to be done in such a way that the it doesn't
require that main link. I could obviously do this as a seperate
WebApp, but that seems like wasted overhead in this instance.
Hell yes that is wasted overhead. What you want are called Direct
Actions. In a nutshell, a direct action associates a particular
URL with one method in a class. They allow for multiple entry
points into your application. In your particular example, the URL
would/could look like this:
http://somesite/cgi-bin/WebObjects/myWebApp.woa/wa/rssFeed
Note:
/wa/ indicates a Direct Action
/wo/ indicates a standard component action
rssFeed is the name of the direct action
Then in DirectAction.java add:
// Note the method name is the name of the direct action plus Action
public WOActionResults rssFeedAction() {
return pageWithName(RSSFeedPage);
}
Excellent, that kills two birds with one stone, it addresses the how
to link to sub pages from HTML as well as the action, most excellent,
works like a charm too.
The second item deals directly with EOF. While I see the
advantages from an intellectual standpoint, I've not had much luck
in working with EOF and any DB engine other than OpenBase, usually
getting syntax errors on the generated SQL. I've also tried the
Project Wonder stuff, but since CVS has been impossible to get to,
I can't build the EOPlugins to generate proper SQL.
You need those plugins. They are not optional. E-mail me off list
and I can send you a built version of the Postgres one and
instructions.
If I can just get the source, I'm pretty confident I can make it
work, and if I do, I'll probably build it unibin and get it into the
PostgreSQL binary installer that's on SourceForge to make both WO and
PG more approachable to others. I know I'm not the only one that's
hit this problem.
Which brings me to the other issue, reverse usage, using EOF with
pre-existing schemas where the Primary Keys are identity (MSSQL)
or serial (PostgreSQL) columns. While *read* seems to work with
these models, update and insert do not. Again, I suspect User
Error, probably along the lines of over complicating things based
upon my background. I'm really just looking for some pointers or
a gently nudge in the right direction.
You can't (easily, with software almost anything is possible given
enough effort) use identity and serial columns with WebObjects. WO
needs to know the PK at the time of save so that it can find the
object again)
I was afraid of that, though both implementation have methods of
getting the newly inserted key back, it means that I'll have to stick
to the hand-coded classes for the preexisting schema's. Knowing that
makes it alot easier to cope with though, It's easy to get frustrated
trying to make something work that won't :-).
Andy
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Re: New (sorta) to WebObjects and looking for some insight.
On Mar 20, 2006, at 3:50 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: Hi, On Mar 20, 2006, at 12:19 PM, Andrew Satori wrote: Thanks for the quick reply On Mar 20, 2006, at 2:53 PM, Chuck Hill wrote: The question of PostgreSQL versus MSSQL is not really a question in my opinion. Use PostgreSQL. In fact, I would prefer PostgreSQL over OpenBase due to its SQL92 standard-ness. FrontBase is my platform of choice, but it is not free for deployment. When free / open is required, PostgreSQL is a fine solution. I've looked at FrontBase before, but pricing has always been an issue. I've got a large amount of money and knowledge invested in MSSQL, where I have 30+ customers nationwide deployed on MSSQL, in addition to my own business where I have several MSSQL and PostgreSQL servers deployed. For me to move to FrontBase at this point would cost me and my customers several hundreds of thousands of dollars since we would all fall into the Small Business or larger licenses :-(. I'll blame it on Monday. I misread that the first time, thoughi it said MySQL not MSSQL. I've not used MSSQL, but it should be fine. LOL, I can see it. It's even funnier when you understand that I won't go near MySQL with a 10ft pole for religious reasons. I have serious issues with the database mafia and GPL'd (not LGPL, but GPL) libraries to actually use the data in the database, but that's a topic for another rant entirely :-). Andy Chuck smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
Re: Tales from the Dark Side
Considering that the CVS server availability has been iffy the past few days, that would be great, though I think some of us need intel bin's as well. Andy On Mar 17, 2006, at 11:04 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: Get the PostgreSQL plugin and the PostgreSQLPlugin.bundle from ProjectWonder. There is a nightly build server around (I don't have the url at hand, sorry). The PW build server is http://www.mdimension.com/~wonder , however, the PostreSQL Plugin Bundle is native code and the build server doesn't have a new enough Xcode on it to build it automatically at the moment. If people are particularly desiring this, I can just build it manually and put it up on the build server -- it doesn't appear to change all that often. ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/dru% 40druware.com This email sent to [EMAIL PROTECTED] smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to archive@mail-archive.com
