Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Greetings all, I kind of like Mike¹s idea, and probably there is room for a couple alternatives. By default for classroom or enterprise deployment, I would think that Kieran¹s template for /Application, /Developer, /Developer/Hudson, and /Library/Tomcat makes perfectly good sense.For user space install, the option to use user space with ~ on the front makes perfectly good sense. I thought Package Manager allowed on to do those kind of things, but I could be mistaken. For example, I would probably have a script that is checking out the WOInstaller or the 10.5 WO Installer and Project Wonder and installs Hudson with a restriction for localhost except through Apache under SSL.The second option would be to have said script run, and just include the directories in the package installer. Any ideas? Daniel Beatty Computer Scientist, Detonation Sciences Branch Code 474300D 2401 E. Pilot Plant Rd. M/S 1109 China Lake, CA 93555 daniel.bea...@navy.mil (760)939-7097 On 10/6/10 4:57 PM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: So it sounds like the majority is ~/something ... I think ~/Applications is a reasonable choice. ms On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:53 PM, Q wrote: I install eclipse in ~/Developer/Applications/ On 07/10/2010, at 7:00 AM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? Last thread made me feel like we're leaning towards /Applications... /Applications /Developer other? Thanks, jeremy On Oct 6, 2010, at 3:43 PM, John Huss wrote: And the mod_WebObjects adaptor compiled for snow leopard. John On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Pascal Robert prob...@macti.ca wrote: Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed in the past (some components optional) 1) Eclipse (whatever) 2) WOLips (stable) 3) EOGenerator Templates (I believe these are no longer needed by anyone???) 4) Launchd scripts for wotaskd and womonitor 5) Wonder Frameworks (latest stable) 6) Wonder Framework Jars (latest stable) 7) Wonder API Docs 8) Wonder RuleModeler 9) Frontbase (current + mgt apps) If FrontBase was only for the WOWODC demos, I would remove it. I would add Wonder versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor, and that the launch scripts start those versions instead of the Apple one. Anything we should add/remove? What should be optional (Wonder?) vs preselected (Eclipse, WOLips, etc)? Preselected : Eclipse, WOLips, wotaskd, Wonder frameworks and JavaDoc, and the launch script for wotaskd. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.co m This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/qdolan%40gmail.com This email sent to qdo...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com This email sent to msch...@pobox.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/daniel.beatty%40navy.mil This email sent to daniel.bea...@navy.mil ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Ok - I convinced this company to get a mac. That gave us a three year old macbook running snow leopard. so... where is the all-in-one installer located for snow leopard? Thanks James On Oct 10, 2010, at 4:08 AM, ISHIMOTO Ken wrote: My installation is in my MacBook Pro is: Harddisk 1 : System and default Application that comes with OS X Harddisk 2 : My User Folder with ~/Application (All Application with Eclipse) 1. That makes it more easy to switch to a new machine 2. Make clones from System Data int different Storage, faster Backup and easy restore the System only if something going wrong. 3. Update to a new System like Leo to Snow Leo was very fast, because no touch to my User folders That's my Setup Thank you K's ROOM (ISHIMOTO Ken) [E-Mail] k...@ksroom.com [iChat:] ibase_...@mac.com [HP] http://www.ksroom.com/ _ This e-mail has not been scanned for viruses because it was written on an Mac, and there are NO Viruses on an Apple Computer. For further information visit http://www.apple.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/james%40jimijon.com This email sent to ja...@jimijon.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
My installation is in my MacBook Pro is: Harddisk 1 : System and default Application that comes with OS X Harddisk 2 : My User Folder with ~/Application (All Application with Eclipse) 1. That makes it more easy to switch to a new machine 2. Make clones from System Data int different Storage, faster Backup and easy restore the System only if something going wrong. 3. Update to a new System like Leo to Snow Leo was very fast, because no touch to my User folders That's my Setup Thank you K's ROOM (ISHIMOTO Ken) [E-Mail] k...@ksroom.com [iChat:] ibase_...@mac.com [HP] http://www.ksroom.com/ _ This e-mail has not been scanned for viruses because it was written on an Mac, and there are NO Viruses on an Apple Computer. For further information visit http://www.apple.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I think Lachlan's point about permissions is the reason to do this ... If you put it in /Applications, you WILL run into problems, because the natural permissions are to be o-w. Because Eclipse has no concept of privilege escalation, it would then be impossible for you to install new plugins without actually logging in as your admin user and running eclipse, which is really counterintuitive. The only thing you can reasonably do here is give the installing user write permission to the app, which means that it should probably then be off the ~ hierarchy. Regardless, I think this is REALLY minor decision and it's gotten way more column inches than it deserves. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com This email sent to msch...@pobox.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I agree with Dave on this one. Timo Am 07.10.2010 um 13:54 schrieb David Avendasora: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal / Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/ Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I have not shared MY development machine(s) with other people for as long as I can remember, so I've installed Eclipse in /Applications. Not that I'm advocating for this... Do you guys actually share your machines with other developers? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Timo Hoepfner wrote: I agree with Dave on this one. Timo Am 07.10.2010 um 13:54 schrieb David Avendasora: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
On a complete tangent: Mike's wo setup script is AWESOME. http://gist.github.com/610081 Anyone want a double-clickable wrapper built around this? On 2010-10-07, at 9:54 AM, Paul D Yu wrote: I have not shared MY development machine(s) with other people for as long as I can remember, so I've installed Eclipse in /Applications. Not that I'm advocating for this... Do you guys actually share your machines with other developers? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Timo Hoepfner wrote: I agree with Dave on this one. Timo Am 07.10.2010 um 13:54 schrieb David Avendasora: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing' site: http://codeferous.com blog: http://davidleber.net profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber twitter:http://twitter.com/rebeld -- Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group: http://tacow.org ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I don't share my machine (and I kind of doubt anyone does), but it does feel dirty to have an installer that puts a writable application into /Applications. We really only have two choices here: 1) /Applications/Eclipse.app and world(ish) writable 2) ~/Applications/Eclipse.app and slightly untypical (though it actually is supported by OS X as a legitimate Applications folder) I lean towards option 2 at this point because it does seem like a writable /Applications entry is wrong and unsafe. That we dropped it in ~/Applications is just such a small obstacle to overcome -- open the folder at the end of the install process, or mention it in the dialog at the end. For that matter, people probably use spotlight to launch apps anyway. I don't even know where some of my apps are installed because of that. I'd say just let Jeremy make the call when he makes the installer. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 9:54 AM, Paul D Yu wrote: I have not shared MY development machine(s) with other people for as long as I can remember, so I've installed Eclipse in /Applications. Not that I'm advocating for this... Do you guys actually share your machines with other developers? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Timo Hoepfner wrote: I agree with Dave on this one. Timo Am 07.10.2010 um 13:54 schrieb David Avendasora: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
it's in the not pretty but gets the job done category ... ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:00 AM, David LeBer wrote: On a complete tangent: Mike's wo setup script is AWESOME. http://gist.github.com/610081 Anyone want a double-clickable wrapper built around this? On 2010-10-07, at 9:54 AM, Paul D Yu wrote: I have not shared MY development machine(s) with other people for as long as I can remember, so I've installed Eclipse in /Applications. Not that I'm advocating for this... Do you guys actually share your machines with other developers? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Timo Hoepfner wrote: I agree with Dave on this one. Timo Am 07.10.2010 um 13:54 schrieb David Avendasora: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing' site: http://codeferous.com blog: http://davidleber.net profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber twitter: http://twitter.com/rebeld -- Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group: http://tacow.org ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
btw -- a little pro-tip ... download the eclipse tar.gz yourself and drop it in ~/Sites, then change the script to point to http://localhost/~you/eclipsetar.gz. then you can spit out new eclipse folders really quickly -- you just take the hit to download plugins (which isn't too bad). ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:00 AM, David LeBer wrote: On a complete tangent: Mike's wo setup script is AWESOME. http://gist.github.com/610081 Anyone want a double-clickable wrapper built around this? On 2010-10-07, at 9:54 AM, Paul D Yu wrote: I have not shared MY development machine(s) with other people for as long as I can remember, so I've installed Eclipse in /Applications. Not that I'm advocating for this... Do you guys actually share your machines with other developers? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Timo Hoepfner wrote: I agree with Dave on this one. Timo Am 07.10.2010 um 13:54 schrieb David Avendasora: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing' site: http://codeferous.com blog: http://davidleber.net profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber twitter: http://twitter.com/rebeld -- Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group: http://tacow.org ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
How many of you who gave an opinion actually USE the all-in-one installer? Probably not many? Who is the target audience for this? Where would they expect to find it? John ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Le 2010-10-07 à 10:24, John Huss a écrit : How many of you who gave an opinion actually USE the all-in-one installer? Probably not many? I don't. Who is the target audience for this? People new to WebObjects. Where would they expect to find it? From wocommunity.org and the wiki. I looked at the answers from the individual survey for people who have 3 years or less of experience with WebObjects, and they said that the main problems they had while learning WO was the lack of good documentation for the current toolset, and some said they struggled to install everything correctly, so if people come out with better ways to help new people, that's good. -- Pascal Robert prob...@macti.ca AIM/iChat : MacTICanada LinkedIn : http://www.linkedin.com/in/macti Twitter : pascal_robert ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Yep, same here ... keeping everything (Eclipse, WO Roots with different versions, framework install locations, etc.) means painless migrations to new machines, which for speed-thirsty devs can mean once per year usually. On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:55 PM, Q wrote: On 07/10/2010, at 10:38 AM, Stephen R. Smith wrote: FWIW - I'm also a /Developer/Applications fan. I'm the only user on my machines, so I don't use ~/Applications at all. Office and Photoshop aren't really dev apps, so they logically belong in /Applications. Conversely, Xcode and Eclipse aren't really general purpose apps, so they go in /Developer/Applications. My WO53, WO54 environments are in /Developer/WebObjects/ I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. -- Seeya...Q Quinton Dolan - qdo...@gmail.com Gold Coast, QLD, Australia (GMT+10) ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I think a double-clickable wrapper is a rocking idea. On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:00 AM, David LeBer wrote: On a complete tangent: Mike's wo setup script is AWESOME. http://gist.github.com/610081 Anyone want a double-clickable wrapper built around this? On 2010-10-07, at 9:54 AM, Paul D Yu wrote: I have not shared MY development machine(s) with other people for as long as I can remember, so I've installed Eclipse in /Applications. Not that I'm advocating for this... Do you guys actually share your machines with other developers? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 8:36 AM, Timo Hoepfner wrote: I agree with Dave on this one. Timo Am 07.10.2010 um 13:54 schrieb David Avendasora: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing' site: http://codeferous.com blog: http://davidleber.net profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber twitter: http://twitter.com/rebeld -- Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group: http://tacow.org ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I don't Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:24 AM, John Huss johnth...@gmail.com wrote: How many of you who gave an opinion actually USE the all-in-one installer? Probably not many? Probably zero. Who is the target audience for this? New users. Where would they expect to find it? Find the eclipse install? In /Applications, unless they specified elsewhere during the install. The installer itself? On the front page of the WOCommunity website, on the front page of the wiki, and as the very first item on the How to install WO wiki page. Dave ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I agree with John. I understand that there could -possibly- be issues with permissions in /Applications, but I've never run into them, and I don't recall anyone posting to the list with those types of problems. I can write to my Eclipse directory just fine in /Applications. Installing plugins has never required me to authenticate or adjust the permissions. I just don't see the justification for the installer to behave differently than how every other installer (other than Xcode) behaves; present the user with an install location that is defaulted to /Applications, but allows them to choose a different location. Dave Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss johnth...@gmail.com wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I agree with John. I understand that there could -possibly- be issues with permissions in /Applications, but I've never run into them, and I don't recall anyone posting to the list with those types of problems. I can write to my Eclipse directory just fine in /Applications. Installing plugins has never required me to authenticate or adjust the permissions. I just don't see the justification for the installer to behave differently than how every other installer (other than Xcode) behaves; present the user with an install location that is defaulted to /Applications, but allows them to choose a different location. It has to behave differently because eclipse sucks. You've never had permissions issues because your permissions are wrong because they HAVE to be wrong for eclipse to work properly. It's not that there's possibly a permissions problem, it's that there just IS a permissions problem. Apps that install with defaults that are unsafe are kind of uncool. We should default to safety even if that means it's slightly off. I like to think that our new users aren't retarded and can cope with having our app in a different folder initially. If THEY want to move and figure out what that means, that's up to them, but we shouldn't put them in a compromised situation out-of-the-box. ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
On 2010-10-07, at 11:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? I vote for Jeremy to not put it in /Applications because I like kittens... a lot. I also vote for someone to put an alias on the desktop 'cause I really want to see Mike punch EVERYONE in the face. Loading up on popcorn and getting comfy, this should be good. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing' site: http://codeferous.com blog: http://davidleber.net profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber twitter:http://twitter.com/rebeld -- Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group: http://tacow.org ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
my 2 cents about /Applications I manage a network with mostly Managed Mobil Users. These are people working in Quark, Indesign. I had to make the /Applications/Quarkxpress world writable or it wouldn't work correctly. I don't know that this is so 'bad'. Ted --- On Thu, 10/7/10, David LeBer dleber_wo...@codeferous.com wrote: From: David LeBer dleber_wo...@codeferous.com Subject: Re: TurnKey Installer Components To: woproject-...@objectstyle.org Cc: WebObjects-Dev Mailing List List webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com Date: Thursday, October 7, 2010, 11:21 AM On 2010-10-07, at 11:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? I vote for Jeremy to not put it in /Applications because I like kittens... a lot. I also vote for someone to put an alias on the desktop 'cause I really want to see Mike punch EVERYONE in the face. Loading up on popcorn and getting comfy, this should be good. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing' site: http://codeferous.com blog: http://davidleber.net profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber twitter: http://twitter.com/rebeld -- Toronto Area Cocoa / WebObjects developers group: http://tacow.org ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. Mike's commandments: 1) Thou shalt not write to /Applications 2) Thou shalt not put an alias on the desktop 3) Thou shalt not run as an admin user If thou shouldst break these commandments, then thy kitten shall die. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Well, quite frankly I don't care for kittens. Allergic, in fact. :) On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Just for my education, now. So when I setup my clean machine from Apple, I should not use the default user and be create a separate user? not not give the new user admin rights? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:50 AM, John Huss wrote: 3) Thou shalt not run as an admin user ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
what are the other seven? On 2010-10-07, at 11:50 AM, John Huss wrote: On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. Mike's commandments: 1) Thou shalt not write to /Applications 2) Thou shalt not put an alias on the desktop 3) Thou shalt not run as an admin user If thou shouldst break these commandments, then thy kitten shall die. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/andre%40geometria.net This email sent to an...@geometria.net ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
That's the more secure way... So...I've managed a few macs in my day, and created custom imageslots of IT work. Generally speaking, you don't let business users run as admins. Not that they CANT do admin things (with an admin account ID and password), just that they're not an admin off the bat. More secure. Slightly more work. For SOHO's or individualswell, different story. Some of those folks don't understand why there is a need for a second accountor what this mysterious thing called root is...so its less stress just to tell them to be careful and not do silly things (which sometimes works). -j On Oct 7, 2010, at 12:03 PM, Paul D Yu wrote: Just for my education, now. So when I setup my clean machine from Apple, I should not use the default user and be create a separate user? not not give the new user admin rights? Paul On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:50 AM, John Huss wrote: 3) Thou shalt not run as an admin user smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Just for my education, now. So when I setup my clean machine from Apple, I should not use the default user and be create a separate user? not not give the new user admin rights? yep -- the user i setup when i create a machine is Administrator, then I make a regular user who does not have administrator privileges. ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Taking system administration guidelines from Quark probably goes in the bad-life-decision bucket. An application that writes into its own application folder is fundamentally flawed. Eclipse SHOULD have a base install that is read-only and then write any custom things into ~/Library/Application Support/Eclipse. I'll grant that in the scheme of things, it might not be that big of a deal, but that doesn't make it right. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:44 AM, Theodore Petrosky wrote: my 2 cents about /Applications I manage a network with mostly Managed Mobil Users. These are people working in Quark, Indesign. I had to make the /Applications/Quarkxpress world writable or it wouldn't work correctly. I don't know that this is so 'bad'. Ted --- On Thu, 10/7/10, David LeBer dleber_wo...@codeferous.com wrote: From: David LeBer dleber_wo...@codeferous.com Subject: Re: TurnKey Installer Components To: woproject-...@objectstyle.org Cc: WebObjects-Dev Mailing List List webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com Date: Thursday, October 7, 2010, 11:21 AM On 2010-10-07, at 11:18 AM, Mike Schrag wrote: Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? I vote for Jeremy to not put it in /Applications because I like kittens... a lot. I also vote for someone to put an alias on the desktop 'cause I really want to see Mike punch EVERYONE in the face. Loading up on popcorn and getting comfy, this should be good. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ;david -- David LeBer Codeferous Software 'co-def-er-ous' adj. Literally 'code-bearing' site: http://codeferous.com blog: http://davidleber.net profile:http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidleber twitter:http://twitter.com/rebeld
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
what are the other seven? They are less relevant to this conversation, but I think they are something like: 4) Thou shalt not use Maven 5) Thou shalt not use Jar frameworks 6) Thou shalt not develop on Windows 7) Thou shalt not use WO 5.4... oops, nevermind Someone else will have to help with the rest. :-) ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
How about making it a preference in the installer, something like: a) for All Users (put it in /Applications), b) for this User only (put it in ~/Applications) ? This way the user should be in control, so everybody is happy and kittens will be spared. -ck On Oct 7, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
If someone wants it somewhere else, then maybe they can just drag it from ~/Applications to wherever they want to put it in. :-) On Oct 7, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Christos Konidaris wrote: How about making it a preference in the installer, something like: a) for All Users (put it in /Applications), b) for this User only (put it in ~/Applications) ? This way the user should be in control, so everybody is happy and kittens will be spared. -ck On Oct 7, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/rparada%40mac.com This email sent to rpar...@mac.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
YOU CAN DO THAT??? ;-) On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Ricardo J. Parada rpar...@mac.com wrote: If someone wants it somewhere else, then maybe they can just drag it from ~/Applications to wherever they want to put it in. :-) On Oct 7, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Christos Konidaris wrote: How about making it a preference in the installer, something like: a) for All Users (put it in /Applications), b) for this User only (put it in ~/Applications) ? This way the user should be in control, so everybody is happy and kittens will be spared. -ck On Oct 7, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list ( Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.comjohnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.comwebobje...@avendasora.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/rparada%40mac.com This email sent to rpar...@mac.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
My thought exactly. The new user would not be sure if it will break something by moving things around. -ck On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:45 PM, John Huss wrote: YOU CAN DO THAT??? ;-) On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Ricardo J. Parada rpar...@mac.com wrote: If someone wants it somewhere else, then maybe they can just drag it from ~/Applications to wherever they want to put it in. :-) On Oct 7, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Christos Konidaris wrote: How about making it a preference in the installer, something like: a) for All Users (put it in /Applications), b) for this User only (put it in ~/Applications) ? This way the user should be in control, so everybody is happy and kittens will be spared. -ck On Oct 7, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/rparada%40mac.com This email sent to rpar...@mac.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
If he wants to move it somewhere else then he's probably an advanced user. When I install Eclipse it ends up in my ~/Downloads folder. Then I drag it to where I want it to reside in /Developer/Applications. I have write permissions to that folder. I've seen the Finder ask the user to authenticate when copying things into /Applications where the user doing the copy does not have enough permissions to do it. On Oct 7, 2010, at 12:54 PM, Christos Konidaris wrote: My thought exactly. The new user would not be sure if it will break something by moving things around. -ck On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:45 PM, John Huss wrote: YOU CAN DO THAT??? ;-) On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Ricardo J. Parada rpar...@mac.com wrote: If someone wants it somewhere else, then maybe they can just drag it from ~/Applications to wherever they want to put it in. :-) On Oct 7, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Christos Konidaris wrote: How about making it a preference in the installer, something like: a) for All Users (put it in /Applications), b) for this User only (put it in ~/Applications) ? This way the user should be in control, so everybody is happy and kittens will be spared. -ck On Oct 7, 2010, at 6:18 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: Doesn't mean we need to be complicit in their terrible life decisions. And, I would wager that developers would be tend to be more discerning with respect to permissions. I think this is officially a religious argument at this point. I nominate that Jeremy just does whatever makes him feel good with the knowledge that I'll kill a kitten if he puts it in /Applications. Should we switch over to debating optimal code formatter preferences and curly brace placement? ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:12 AM, David Avendasora wrote: How do 99% of all Mac users run? I'm guessing as admin users (there's a little evil in all of us). Sent from my iPad On Oct 7, 2010, at 11:03 AM, Mike Schrag msch...@pobox.com wrote: That's because you either made it world-writable or you run as an admin user, either of which is kind of evil. ms On Oct 7, 2010, at 10:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/rparada%40mac.com This email sent to rpar...@mac.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
On 7/Oct/2010, at 9:37 AM, Christos Konidaris wrote: a) for All Users (put it in /Applications), b) for this User only (put it in ~/Applications) ? Um, option a) is asking for troubles because of the previous mentioned permissions problems when multiple users attempt to install/update plugins. YMMV, M. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Le 2010-10-07 à 12:21, John Huss a écrit : what are the other seven? They are less relevant to this conversation, but I think they are something like: 4) Thou shalt not use Maven 5) Thou shalt not use Jar frameworks 6) Thou shalt not develop on Windows 7) Thou shalt not use WO 5.4... oops, nevermind 8) Thou shalt not use MacRoman or ISO-Latin-1 Someone else will have to help with the rest. :-) ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca This email sent to prob...@macti.ca ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Emacs! ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
When I was first trying out eclipse, I was on a multi user machine with eclipse in /Applications. I couldn't work out why sometimes a user could install plugins and sometimes a user couldn't. As a Mac user I never expected it to be important which user had installed the original application in /Applications. I thought eclipse was just flakey and so I stayed with XCode which didn't have these problems. Later I worked out the problem, installed eclipse in ~/Applications and haven't had a problem since. Tim On 08/10/2010, at 12:53 AM, John Huss wrote: I have put eclipse into /Applications forever and I've never had a single problem with permissions. I think that is a non-issue. John On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Kieran Kelleher kelleh...@gmail.com wrote: David, I disagree with you and Timo, and I agree with Mike and others. ;-) In summary 2 good reasons for installing in ~/Applications, considering that novice/intermediate users are the ones we are trying to make life easy for. 1) Writeable Eclipse dir ... keep writeable in user dir. Prevent permission issues that 'stump' newbies into giving up too early. 2) Painless migrations to new machines -Kieran On Oct 7, 2010, at 7:54 AM, David Avendasora wrote: I'm pretty against ~/Applications. Nothing installs there by default. Why would we make an installer that's targeted at getting new users up and running install in a place other than the normal /Applications? Sure ~/Applications is _better_ but it's not _normal_. If they're advanced enough to want it in ~/Applications then they can move it. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 9:49 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/tim%40triptera.com.au This email sent to t...@triptera.com.au ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed in the past (some components optional) 1) Eclipse (whatever) 2) WOLips (stable) 3) EOGenerator Templates (I believe these are no longer needed by anyone???) 4) Launchd scripts for wotaskd and womonitor 5) Wonder Frameworks (latest stable) 6) Wonder Framework Jars (latest stable) 7) Wonder API Docs 8) Wonder RuleModeler 9) Frontbase (current + mgt apps) If FrontBase was only for the WOWODC demos, I would remove it. I would add Wonder versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor, and that the launch scripts start those versions instead of the Apple one. Anything we should add/remove? What should be optional (Wonder?) vs preselected (Eclipse, WOLips, etc)? Preselected : Eclipse, WOLips, wotaskd, Wonder frameworks and JavaDoc, and the launch script for wotaskd. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
And the mod_WebObjects adaptor compiled for snow leopard. John On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Pascal Robert prob...@macti.ca wrote: Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed in the past (some components optional) 1) Eclipse (whatever) 2) WOLips (stable) 3) EOGenerator Templates (I believe these are no longer needed by anyone???) 4) Launchd scripts for wotaskd and womonitor 5) Wonder Frameworks (latest stable) 6) Wonder Framework Jars (latest stable) 7) Wonder API Docs 8) Wonder RuleModeler 9) Frontbase (current + mgt apps) If FrontBase was only for the WOWODC demos, I would remove it. I would add Wonder versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor, and that the launch scripts start those versions instead of the Apple one. Anything we should add/remove? What should be optional (Wonder?) vs preselected (Eclipse, WOLips, etc)? Preselected : Eclipse, WOLips, wotaskd, Wonder frameworks and JavaDoc, and the launch script for wotaskd. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? Last thread made me feel like we're leaning towards /Applications... /Applications /Developer other? Thanks, jeremy On Oct 6, 2010, at 3:43 PM, John Huss wrote: And the mod_WebObjects adaptor compiled for snow leopard. John On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Pascal Robert prob...@macti.ca wrote: Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed in the past (some components optional) 1) Eclipse (whatever) 2) WOLips (stable) 3) EOGenerator Templates (I believe these are no longer needed by anyone???) 4) Launchd scripts for wotaskd and womonitor 5) Wonder Frameworks (latest stable) 6) Wonder Framework Jars (latest stable) 7) Wonder API Docs 8) Wonder RuleModeler 9) Frontbase (current + mgt apps) If FrontBase was only for the WOWODC demos, I would remove it. I would add Wonder versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor, and that the launch scripts start those versions instead of the Apple one. Anything we should add/remove? What should be optional (Wonder?) vs preselected (Eclipse, WOLips, etc)? Preselected : Eclipse, WOLips, wotaskd, Wonder frameworks and JavaDoc, and the launch script for wotaskd. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
On 6/Oct/2010, at 2:06 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I'm a /Developer/Applications fan, personally ... I also like shuffling the config around so I only have an Eclipse.app and the plugins and configuration folders are inside the bundle. Ick, clearly NOT someone who erases and installs every new Xcode build... ;-) I put Eclipse in /Additions/Applications myself so it's clear that I've made an addition to the machine. In a newbie case, I'd default to /Applications VMMV! ;-) M! ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
On 07/10/2010, at 8:48 AM, Mark Ritchie wrote: On 6/Oct/2010, at 2:06 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I'm a /Developer/Applications fan, personally ... I also like shuffling the config around so I only have an Eclipse.app and the plugins and configuration folders are inside the bundle. Ick, clearly NOT someone who erases and installs every new Xcode build... ;-) I put Eclipse in /Additions/Applications myself so it's clear that I've made an addition to the machine. In a newbie case, I'd default to /Applications VMMV! ;-) Personally I install in ~/Applications. That way you can just back up your home directory and should a re-install be needed it's simple. No worries re permissions either. with regards, -- Lachlan Deck ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Thinking like a complete noob, I'd put it in Applications. Dave On Oct 6, 2010, at 5:06 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I'm a /Developer/Applications fan, personally ... I also like shuffling the config around so I only have an Eclipse.app and the plugins and configuration folders are inside the bundle. On Oct 6, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? Last thread made me feel like we're leaning towards /Applications... /Applications /Developer other? Thanks, jeremy On Oct 6, 2010, at 3:43 PM, John Huss wrote: And the mod_WebObjects adaptor compiled for snow leopard. John On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Pascal Robert prob...@macti.ca wrote: Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed in the past (some components optional) 1) Eclipse (whatever) 2) WOLips (stable) 3) EOGenerator Templates (I believe these are no longer needed by anyone???) 4) Launchd scripts for wotaskd and womonitor 5) Wonder Frameworks (latest stable) 6) Wonder Framework Jars (latest stable) 7) Wonder API Docs 8) Wonder RuleModeler 9) Frontbase (current + mgt apps) If FrontBase was only for the WOWODC demos, I would remove it. I would add Wonder versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor, and that the launch scripts start those versions instead of the Apple one. Anything we should add/remove? What should be optional (Wonder?) vs preselected (Eclipse, WOLips, etc)? Preselected : Eclipse, WOLips, wotaskd, Wonder frameworks and JavaDoc, and the launch script for wotaskd. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com This email sent to msch...@pobox.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/webobjects%40avendasora.com This email sent to webobje...@avendasora.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
Like Lachlan, I install eclipse in ~/Applications. If you have more than one user on your Mac using eclipse, but only one installation of eclipse, you have all sorts of permissions problems when each one is installing their own plugins. Tim On 07/10/2010, at 7:55 AM, Lachlan Deck wrote: On 07/10/2010, at 8:48 AM, Mark Ritchie wrote: On 6/Oct/2010, at 2:06 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I'm a /Developer/Applications fan, personally ... I also like shuffling the config around so I only have an Eclipse.app and the plugins and configuration folders are inside the bundle. Ick, clearly NOT someone who erases and installs every new Xcode build... ;-) I put Eclipse in /Additions/Applications myself so it's clear that I've made an addition to the machine. In a newbie case, I'd default to /Applications VMMV! ;-) Personally I install in ~/Applications. That way you can just back up your home directory and should a re-install be needed it's simple. No worries re permissions either. with regards, -- Lachlan Deck ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/tim%40triptera.com.au This email sent to t...@triptera.com.au ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I put dev apps in ~/Applications and everything to do with development in ~/Developer Regards, Kieran On Oct 6, 2010, at 5:00 PM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? Last thread made me feel like we're leaning towards /Applications... /Applications /Developer other? Thanks, jeremy On Oct 6, 2010, at 3:43 PM, John Huss wrote: And the mod_WebObjects adaptor compiled for snow leopard. John On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Pascal Robert prob...@macti.ca wrote: Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed in the past (some components optional) 1) Eclipse (whatever) 2) WOLips (stable) 3) EOGenerator Templates (I believe these are no longer needed by anyone???) 4) Launchd scripts for wotaskd and womonitor 5) Wonder Frameworks (latest stable) 6) Wonder Framework Jars (latest stable) 7) Wonder API Docs 8) Wonder RuleModeler 9) Frontbase (current + mgt apps) If FrontBase was only for the WOWODC demos, I would remove it. I would add Wonder versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor, and that the launch scripts start those versions instead of the Apple one. Anything we should add/remove? What should be optional (Wonder?) vs preselected (Eclipse, WOLips, etc)? Preselected : Eclipse, WOLips, wotaskd, Wonder frameworks and JavaDoc, and the launch script for wotaskd. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I install eclipse in ~/Developer/Applications/ On 07/10/2010, at 7:00 AM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? Last thread made me feel like we're leaning towards /Applications... /Applications /Developer other? Thanks, jeremy On Oct 6, 2010, at 3:43 PM, John Huss wrote: And the mod_WebObjects adaptor compiled for snow leopard. John On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Pascal Robert prob...@macti.ca wrote: Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed in the past (some components optional) 1) Eclipse (whatever) 2) WOLips (stable) 3) EOGenerator Templates (I believe these are no longer needed by anyone???) 4) Launchd scripts for wotaskd and womonitor 5) Wonder Frameworks (latest stable) 6) Wonder Framework Jars (latest stable) 7) Wonder API Docs 8) Wonder RuleModeler 9) Frontbase (current + mgt apps) If FrontBase was only for the WOWODC demos, I would remove it. I would add Wonder versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor, and that the launch scripts start those versions instead of the Apple one. Anything we should add/remove? What should be optional (Wonder?) vs preselected (Eclipse, WOLips, etc)? Preselected : Eclipse, WOLips, wotaskd, Wonder frameworks and JavaDoc, and the launch script for wotaskd. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/qdolan%40gmail.com This email sent to qdo...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
So it sounds like the majority is ~/something ... I think ~/Applications is a reasonable choice. ms On Oct 6, 2010, at 7:53 PM, Q wrote: I install eclipse in ~/Developer/Applications/ On 07/10/2010, at 7:00 AM, Jeremy Matthews wrote: And what is the consensus on the location for Eclipse? Last thread made me feel like we're leaning towards /Applications... /Applications /Developer other? Thanks, jeremy On Oct 6, 2010, at 3:43 PM, John Huss wrote: And the mod_WebObjects adaptor compiled for snow leopard. John On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Pascal Robert prob...@macti.ca wrote: Le 2010-10-06 à 15:17, Jeremy Matthews a écrit : So...from the old installer fileshere is a list of what was installed in the past (some components optional) 1) Eclipse (whatever) 2) WOLips (stable) 3) EOGenerator Templates (I believe these are no longer needed by anyone???) 4) Launchd scripts for wotaskd and womonitor 5) Wonder Frameworks (latest stable) 6) Wonder Framework Jars (latest stable) 7) Wonder API Docs 8) Wonder RuleModeler 9) Frontbase (current + mgt apps) If FrontBase was only for the WOWODC demos, I would remove it. I would add Wonder versions of wotaskd and JavaMonitor, and that the launch scripts start those versions instead of the Apple one. Anything we should add/remove? What should be optional (Wonder?) vs preselected (Eclipse, WOLips, etc)? Preselected : Eclipse, WOLips, wotaskd, Wonder frameworks and JavaDoc, and the launch script for wotaskd. ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/johnthuss%40gmail.com This email sent to johnth...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/qdolan%40gmail.com This email sent to qdo...@gmail.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/mschrag%40pobox.com This email sent to msch...@pobox.com ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
On 07/10/2010, at 10:38 AM, Stephen R. Smith wrote: FWIW - I'm also a /Developer/Applications fan. I'm the only user on my machines, so I don't use ~/Applications at all. Office and Photoshop aren't really dev apps, so they logically belong in /Applications. Conversely, Xcode and Eclipse aren't really general purpose apps, so they go in /Developer/Applications. My WO53, WO54 environments are in /Developer/WebObjects/ I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. -- Seeya...Q Quinton Dolan - qdo...@gmail.com Gold Coast, QLD, Australia (GMT+10) ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
I had no idea what I was getting myself intoheh. This is for newbies...generally speaking, so we'll do ~/Applications...maybe offer a choice...dunno yet. -j On Oct 6, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Mike Schrag wrote: I was the same until recently when I switched to a new machine and forgot to copy over eclipse for the umteen'th time. So I moved it to my home directory instead. If eclipse kept it's plugins and other global config in my home directory I would have no reason to keep it there also. welcome to one of the longest-standing debates in eclipse history ms smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
Re: TurnKey Installer Components
On 07/10/2010, at 11:38 AM, Stephen R. Smith wrote: FWIW - I'm also a /Developer/Applications fan. I'm the only user on my machines, so I don't use ~/Applications at all. Office and Photoshop aren't really dev apps, so they logically belong in /Applications. Conversely, Xcode and Eclipse aren't really general purpose apps, so they go in /Developer/Applications. My WO53, WO54 environments are in /Developer/WebObjects/ Anything /Developer is usually fair game for Xcode installs. i.e., considered like /System, an Apple reserved space. It's your system of course but no need to make things harder :) with regards, -- Lachlan Deck ___ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
