Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
I think theres lots(Eelco usually being the friendliest), however considering the subject of this thread. I think most will be inclined to be not so friendly. - Kick a guy in his ass and then asking to borrow a coin won't get you any.. regards Nino A_flj_ wrote: Thanks, I'm just downloading the examples, hopefully I'll get what I need from them. Is there any friendlier poster here than Eelco? A_flj_ - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Hi all, I have been on holiday for a while... and I am very much surprised to see this thread still going! Eelco Hillenius wrote: previous post. After all, as far as I could notice, he's the only one who didn't make fun of this thread's initiator in his first response. You know how it is with programmers... always passionate about their stuff :) I didn't think Florian deserved such a strong reaction, as I think it's good he let us know on what grounds some people don't choose Wicket (though such posts come dangerously close to flame baits), and maybe we can learn from that. That said, I agreed with the reasoning of most other reactions. It was far from being my intention to start any kind of flame-war. On the contrary I was just sad that my team had not decided to go with wicket , and as Eelco said I thought it was good to let the wicket community know what had happened... feedback is always better then none. I did not take any of the comments posted back badly. I have nothing but respect for Wicket and it's community. Further-more I am looking at how I can use Wicket on some other personal projects to keep on discovering all of it's features. Anyway... let this be the last post in this thread. Please. florian - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Al Maw wrote: I'm guessing you didn't try typing wicket treetable into Google and clicking the I'm feeling lucky button? Right, I pushed the google search button instead. Silly me. I got to sites where the examples were on display. But I could not find any place where a downloadable archive with the examples was available. I was expecting to find such a downloadable archive, instead of having only svn access to the source code. What somebody could help with, however, is how to convert what I get out of SVN into a proper Eclipse project. Until now, all I got are maven errors - listing at end of post. What I do: - checkout the directory wicket-examples - chdir to the checked out directory (where the pom.xml is) - run mvn eclipse:eclipse like Elco suggested. I'm no maven expert, neither am I a svn expert - I'm just getting my feet wet. I looked at the error message, I looked into pom.xml, and it seems I didn't check out what I should have (as far as I can understand the pom.xml, it references some parent directory). What should I get from the repository? Or is it something else that I didn't do right? Al Maw wrote: Sometimes, I wonder how people like Eelco have the patience... :o) Me too! (But where would ppl like me ask for help if there weren't ppl like Elco?) flj --- Listing of what maven says: d:\workfj\myEclipseWork\wicket-examples\wicket-examplesmvn eclipse:eclipse [INFO] Scanning for projects... [INFO] [ERROR] FATAL ERROR [INFO] [INFO] Error building POM (may not be this project's POM). Project ID: org.apache.wicket:wicket-jdk15:pom:null Reason: Cannot find parent: org.apache.wicket:wicket-parent for project: org.apa che.wicket:wicket-jdk15:pom:null [INFO] [INFO] Trace org.apache.maven.reactor.MavenExecutionException: Cannot find parent: org.apache .wicket:wicket-parent for project: org.apache.wicket:wicket-jdk15:pom:null at org.apache.maven.DefaultMaven.getProjects(DefaultMaven.java:378) at org.apache.maven.DefaultMaven.doExecute(DefaultMaven.java:290) at org.apache.maven.DefaultMaven.execute(DefaultMaven.java:125) at org.apache.maven.cli.MavenCli.main(MavenCli.java:272) at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Native Method) at sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source) at sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Unknown Source) at java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Unknown Source) at org.codehaus.classworlds.Launcher.launchEnhanced(Launcher.java:315) at org.codehaus.classworlds.Launcher.launch(Launcher.java:255) at org.codehaus.classworlds.Launcher.mainWithExitCode(Launcher.java:430) at org.codehaus.classworlds.Launcher.main(Launcher.java:375) Caused by: org.apache.maven.project.ProjectBuildingException: Cannot find parent : org.apache.wicket:wicket-parent for project: org.apache.wicket:wicket-jdk15:po m:null at org.apache.maven.project.DefaultMavenProjectBuilder.assembleLineage(D efaultMavenProjectBuilder.java:1264) at org.apache.maven.project.DefaultMavenProjectBuilder.assembleLineage(D efaultMavenProjectBuilder.java:1281) at org.apache.maven.project.DefaultMavenProjectBuilder.buildInternal(Def aultMavenProjectBuilder.java:749) at org.apache.maven.project.DefaultMavenProjectBuilder.buildFromSourceFi leInternal(DefaultMavenProjectBuilder.java:479) at org.apache.maven.project.DefaultMavenProjectBuilder.build(DefaultMave nProjectBuilder.java:200) at org.apache.maven.DefaultMaven.getProject(DefaultMaven.java:537) at org.apache.maven.DefaultMaven.collectProjects(DefaultMaven.java:467) at org.apache.maven.DefaultMaven.getProjects(DefaultMaven.java:364) ... 11 more Caused by: org.apache.maven.project.ProjectBuildingException: POM 'org.apache.wi cket:wicket-parent' not found in repository: Unable to download the artifact fro m any repository org.apache.wicket:wicket-parent:pom:1.3.0-incubating-SNAPSHOT from the specified remote repositories: central (http://repo1.maven.org/maven2) at org.apache.maven.project.DefaultMavenProjectBuilder.findModelFromRepo sitory(DefaultMavenProjectBuilder.java:573) at org.apache.maven.project.DefaultMavenProjectBuilder.assembleLineage(D efaultMavenProjectBuilder.java:1260) ... 18 more Caused by: org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver.ArtifactNotFoundException: Unable to download the artifact from any repository org.apache.wicket:wicket-parent:pom:1.3.0-incubating-SNAPSHOT from the specified remote repositories: central (http://repo1.maven.org/maven2) at org.apache.maven.artifact.resolver.DefaultArtifactResolver.resolve(De faultArtifactResolver.java:197) at
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
hi, What I do: - checkout the directory wicket-examples try checking out not only wicket-examples but the whole trunk. then you should have all dependencies. regards, --- jan. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
A_flj_ wrote: Bad bad bad bad thing that the examples for the wicket-extensions are either hard to find or not documented very well. I'm trying for half a day now to find an example markup for inserting a treetable, but could not find anything. I'm guessing you didn't try typing wicket treetable into Google and clicking the I'm feeling lucky button? Sometimes, I wonder how people like Eelco have the patience... Al - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Thanks, I'm just downloading the examples, hopefully I'll get what I need from them. Is there any friendlier poster here than Eelco? A_flj_ -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a11023996 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Is there any friendlier poster here than Eelco? yes he is called igor johan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Hello. It seems some people didn't understand my previous post, and consider it offensive (private post). To all ppl who potentially had the same understanding of my post I appologize. It wasn't meant to be offensive. I really mean Elco is a friendly responder, and that's what I meant in my previous post. After all, as far as I could notice, he's the only one who didn't make fun of this thread's initiator in his first response. You know how it is with programmers... always passionate about their stuff :) I didn't think Florian deserved such a strong reaction, as I think it's good he let us know on what grounds some people don't choose Wicket (though such posts come dangerously close to flame baits), and maybe we can learn from that. That said, I agreed with the reasoning of most other reactions. Cheers, Eelco - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Hello. It seems some people didn't understand my previous post, and consider it offensive (private post). To all ppl who potentially had the same understanding of my post I appologize. It wasn't meant to be offensive. I really mean Elco is a friendly responder, and that's what I meant in my previous post. After all, as far as I could notice, he's the only one who didn't make fun of this thread's initiator in his first response. br, A_flj_ -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a11029366 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
On 6/7/07, Upayavira [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've often heard it said that us human beings are strange - we often prefer the familiar to the pleasant. And it is confirmed in this article [1]: Explaining Cognitive Lock-In: The Role of Skill-Based Habits of Use in Consumer Choice KYLE B. MURRAY GERALD HÄUBL We introduce and test a theory of how the choices consumers make are influenced by skill-based habits of use—goal-activated automated behaviors that develop through the repeated consumption or use of a particular product. Such habits can explain how consumers become locked in to an incumbent product. The proposed theory characterizes how the amount of experience with the incumbent product, the occurrence of usage errors while learning to use that product, and the goal that is activated at the time a choice is made interrelate to influence consumer preference. The results of three experiments support the theory's predictions. [1] http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/JCR/journal/issues/v34n1/340108/brief/340108.abstract.html?erFrom=5590199003513691096Guest -- Join the wicket community at irc.freenode.net: ##wicket Wicket 1.2.6 contains a very important fix. Download Wicket now! http://wicketframework.org - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Bad bad bad bad thing that the examples for the wicket-extensions are either hard to find or not documented very well. I'm trying for half a day now to find an example markup for inserting a treetable, but could not find anything. IMO it would be _very_ useful to make wars/jars/zips with Eclipse projects available for download for all wicket-extensions examples. And also easy to do, right? IMO programming with something new is very much like cooking: you never get it perfectly right before you see somebody else doing it properly. If you (experienced wicket users/wicket developers) just give us (beginners) readymade food for tasting, we'll never start cooking your receipes, no matter how much we like the taste. We have to see you cooking. Juergen Donnerstag wrote: This is not very difficult to implement. The displaytag example in wicket-examples used to have it and it was based on ListView. But I think we removed it since Repeater/DataView etc from wicket-extension is more flexible and elegant and our preferred approach for most table type implementation. I have no doubts that a customized component can be developed which uses Labels as a default for each cell still giving you the option to use any other component if the default (Label) should ot be used. Juergen. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a11006625 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
I too would be sad to announce this outcome, especially after investing the time necessary to research and evaluate the options and having looked into some of the ways wicket improves the whole development experience for web apps and, the quality of the end product. I have only been working with wicket for a short time but can already confirm, coming from a very OO background, that it is a pleasure to develop with. The philosophy and design of the framework just make sense; they have clearly been well thought out - the design and user experience (ie the developers' experience) is second to no other competing framework that I have come across. I agree that it takes a bit of learning, especially if an OO solution for the web-tier is not critical and the team is already familiar with Model-2, but, in my experience, there is no point dwelling on your team's decision if it has already been made. At the end of the day, most of these frameworks do work and are proven too, it's just that some are more interesting, powerful and enjoyable to work with, especially on larger applications. If during a future evaluation you were to come to this forum looking for pointers and answers about how to do stuff in wicket (and I do think that the documentation/examples can be improved in due course, hopefully once the incubation dust has settled) before your decision is reached, I am sure that forum members here with a much greater feel for wicket than myself, would be pleased to offer guidance/suggestions/feedback (and quickly, as you can see from the high-quality, unbiased responses you have already received on this thread) on some of the points your team concluded were wicket's relative merits or otherwise. Good luck with your project. Florian Hehlen-2 wrote: HI all, I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. Is there any plan or push or hidden feature that allows for a bean to be directly mapped to a template without having to declare new Label(...) for each field in the ListView. I think this would be a great win for Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. thanks, Florian. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a11015607 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
In our company we are using Wicket since last year and I am working on the second project with it. For the first project, client insisted on using wicket and this was an opportunity to learn. For the second project (fully ajaxified application), we had to choose between GWT and Wicket, and we gave the preference to Wicket and I must say that I do not regret a second :). I like the wicket for it's flexibility, simplicity and for many other things and hope to use it for as many as possible projects in the future :). Alex. Jon Laidler wrote: Sorry to hear that. I would be interested to hear how many companies are usng Wicket, and how many of those companies switched to Wicket from other frameworks. Personally, I think Wicket is the best framework I have come across. True separation of concerns is the mantra we should use when asked why Wicket. Let web designers do their magic with web site design, and leave Java coders handle the components. Florian Hehlen-2 wrote: HI all, I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. Is there any plan or push or hidden feature that allows for a bean to be directly mapped to a template without having to declare new Label(...) for each field in the ListView. I think this would be a great win for Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. thanks, Florian. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a10983742 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
hope to use it for as many as possible projects in the future :). Good to hear. I hope you and others will continue being part of the community, making Wicket the best framework we can. Cheers, Eelco - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Jon Laidler wrote: True separation of concerns is the mantra we should use when asked why Wicket. Let web designers do their magic with web site design, and leave Java coders handle the components. I think Wicket sells itself short if it emphasises only the designer-developer separation as its main use case. This is indeed an extremely strong core feature, and the best selling point for the use case in question (labour divided between designers developers). However, I suspect I'm not alone in working for a company where that division of labour does not exist - we have only developers, no designers as such. Does this mean Wicket loses much of its power, or is not an ideal fit? Far from it, as we can follow a slightly different path, which is no less powerful for our use case. We never open the templates in any kind of designer app (or even in a browser for a quick look). Instead we make heavy use of panels, borders, component inheritance and markup inheritance, to achieve a very tight and maintainable codebase. All fully covered by junit tests using WicketTester, with Spring beans mocked via EasyMock. This maintainability is extremely important to us, moreso than the designer-developer split. Anytime I'm selling wicket, I emphasise both use cases (and yes, I realise they're not necessarily mutually exclusive)... -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a10984022 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
big snip / You know all technology aside... It should be clear even to a lay person the value of the wicket community is tremendous.. Outside of a few well deserved smart-a** comments you can always get help and or someone to even go the extra mile to teach.. So thank you... ./C - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 09:40:33PM -0700, JonLaidler wrote: I would be interested to hear how many companies are usng Wicket, and how many of those companies switched to Wicket from other frameworks. Here's my Wicket story. Our team is a small internal development group inside a large bank. We decided to look for alternatives to Struts 1 earlier this year. Initially we looked at Spring MVC and Struts 2 but felt that these were only incremental improvements on Struts 1. We had a quick look at Wicket, based on the buzz we'd noticed in various forums, and were very impressed. After a more thorough review, we selected Wicket and are now developing two fairly complex Wicket-based apps. Amongst Wicket's many advantages, the following stand out for me: - The ability to encapsulate UI components, including all required markup, CSS, Javascript, and localization files, into shared JARs on the classpath. Having a shared component library is key to our team, since we tend to develop many small Web apps. - The ability to aggregate smaller components into larger and more complex ones. This allows us to create much richer pages, since we can think at an appropriate level of abstraction: I can just throw our standard page banner component on a page without thinking about the fact that it contains a logo, the app title, and a list of global navigation links. (In fact, it's even simpler than that. The banner is added by the base page that each app page extends.) - The fact that the same principles of a component tree and markup inheritance work from the smallest components right up to the entire page. This is very different from most Model2 frameworks, where you need something like SiteMesh or Tiles to add common banners and navbars to pages, and from JSF, where the internal structure of components is very different that the way they are composed into pages. Unfortunately, these are subtle points that can be difficult to sell, especially since evaluations tend to involve toy examples. jk - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Hi John, John Krasnay wrote: Amongst Wicket's many advantages, the following stand out for me: - The ability to encapsulate UI components, including all required markup, CSS, Javascript, and localization files, into shared JARs on the classpath. Having a shared component library is key to our team, since we tend to develop many small Web apps. - The ability to aggregate smaller components into larger and more complex ones. This allows us to create much richer pages, since we can think at an appropriate level of abstraction: I can just throw our standard page banner component on a page without thinking about the fact that it contains a logo, the app title, and a list of global navigation links. (In fact, it's even simpler than that. The banner is added by the base page that each app page extends.) - The fact that the same principles of a component tree and markup inheritance work from the smallest components right up to the entire page. This is very different from most Model2 frameworks, where you need something like SiteMesh or Tiles to add common banners and navbars to pages, and from JSF, where the internal structure of components is very different that the way they are composed into pages. I agree with you that these are some of the strongest benefits of Wicket. In my experience these facts were seen as a disadvantage... and I am still trying to figure out why? My group is a very strong OOP group yet the fully contained component advantage of Wicket was not appealing. The only reason I can find for these irrational conclusion is that the Model 2 frameworks out there have defined themselves as THE proper web implementation of MVC. Furthermore, our need for web-apps are peripheral to our main business. We typically need to put together many small support web-applications. so, Having a re-usabble set of components which require zero-config would have been a great advantage. florian - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
I think that forms and tables seem awfully verbose when you first
start Wicket. A wiki page or two taking an example of such through a
reasonable evolution to some short, tight code would be nice. I have
an old e-mail thread where Igor does exactly that, helping me. I'll
put it together into such a page. Where would y'all like it?
On a second point, Wicket's behaviors are insanely useful but
under-advertised. We let customers buy a variety of products and then
we generate a form where the customer fills in the name of the person
picking up the show tickets, the club passes, checking into the hotel,
etc. The first last names are often the same and I was _easily_
able to create a behavior that I add to all of the first name fields
that propagates the model from one first name to all of the other
first names (and of course another for the last name). I can't
imagine creating new, reusable functionality that easily in any other
framework.
(Don't confuse the enum method name() with the name property of the behavior...)
package com.vegas.ui.wicket.behaviors;
import wicket.Component;
import wicket.Component.IVisitor;
import wicket.ajax.AjaxRequestTarget;
import wicket.ajax.form.AjaxFormComponentUpdatingBehavior;
import wicket.markup.html.form.FormComponent;
public class ModelPropagationBehavior extends AjaxFormComponentUpdatingBehavior
{
private static final long serialVersionUID = -451063727688504933L;
public enum PREBUILT
{
FIRST_NAME, LAST_NAME;
public ModelPropagationBehavior getBehavior()
{
return new ModelPropagationBehavior(name());
}
}
private final String name;
public ModelPropagationBehavior(String n)
{
super(onblur);
this.name = n;
}
private String getName()
{
return name;
}
private boolean hasMatchingBehavior(Component component)
{
for (Object behavior : component.getBehaviors())
{
if (behavior instanceof ModelPropagationBehavior
((ModelPropagationBehavior)
behavior).getName().equals(this.name))
return true;
}
return false;
}
@Override
protected void onUpdate(final AjaxRequestTarget target)
{
final FormComponent thisComponent = getFormComponent();
thisComponent.getForm().visitChildren(new IVisitor()
{
public Object component(Component otherComponent)
{
if (otherComponent.equals(thisComponent))
return
CONTINUE_TRAVERSAL_BUT_DONT_GO_DEEPER;
if (hasMatchingBehavior(otherComponent)
otherComponent.getModelObjectAsString().isEmpty())
{
otherComponent.setModelObject(thisComponent.getModelObject());
target.addComponent(otherComponent);
return
CONTINUE_TRAVERSAL_BUT_DONT_GO_DEEPER;
}
return CONTINUE_TRAVERSAL;
}
});
}
}
On 6/6/07, Peter Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think I will echo Eelco in wishing you all the best with Struts2.
Only thing I could summarize from this mail chain is that, maybe Wicket
needs that one extra out-of-the-box extension of ListView that you can do
say addColumn(String) and will use a Label by default?
Otherwise as I said earlier, it is a waste of time trying to reverse
pre-conceived notions about which is *THE* UI framework to use. Or if you
can point out anything obvious that the docs or examples are missing, I
guess that can be looked into as well.
Thanks,
Peter.
On 6/6/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi John,
John Krasnay wrote:
Amongst Wicket's many advantages, the following stand out for me:
- The ability to encapsulate UI components, including all required
markup, CSS, Javascript, and localization files, into shared JARs on
the classpath. Having a shared component library is key to our team,
since we tend to develop many small Web apps.
- The ability to aggregate smaller components into larger and more
complex ones. This allows us to create much richer pages, since we can
think at an appropriate level of abstraction: I can just throw our
standard page banner component on a page without thinking about the
fact that it contains a logo, the app title, and a list of global
navigation links. (In fact, it's even simpler than
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Nice work :). This would make a good contribution to wicket-minis.
After that, if you could whip up one with autocomplete instead of
refresh, that would be great too :)
best,
jim
On 6/6/07, Scott Swank [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think that forms and tables seem awfully verbose when you first
start Wicket. A wiki page or two taking an example of such through a
reasonable evolution to some short, tight code would be nice. I have
an old e-mail thread where Igor does exactly that, helping me. I'll
put it together into such a page. Where would y'all like it?
On a second point, Wicket's behaviors are insanely useful but
under-advertised. We let customers buy a variety of products and then
we generate a form where the customer fills in the name of the person
picking up the show tickets, the club passes, checking into the hotel,
etc. The first last names are often the same and I was _easily_
able to create a behavior that I add to all of the first name fields
that propagates the model from one first name to all of the other
first names (and of course another for the last name). I can't
imagine creating new, reusable functionality that easily in any other
framework.
(Don't confuse the enum method name() with the name property of the
behavior...)
package com.vegas.ui.wicket.behaviors;
import wicket.Component;
import wicket.Component.IVisitor;
import wicket.ajax.AjaxRequestTarget;
import wicket.ajax.form.AjaxFormComponentUpdatingBehavior;
import wicket.markup.html.form.FormComponent;
public class ModelPropagationBehavior extends
AjaxFormComponentUpdatingBehavior
{
private static final long serialVersionUID = -451063727688504933L;
public enum PREBUILT
{
FIRST_NAME, LAST_NAME;
public ModelPropagationBehavior getBehavior()
{
return new ModelPropagationBehavior(name());
}
}
private final String name;
public ModelPropagationBehavior(String n)
{
super(onblur);
this.name = n;
}
private String getName()
{
return name;
}
private boolean hasMatchingBehavior(Component component)
{
for (Object behavior : component.getBehaviors())
{
if (behavior instanceof ModelPropagationBehavior
((ModelPropagationBehavior)
behavior).getName().equals(this.name))
return true;
}
return false;
}
@Override
protected void onUpdate(final AjaxRequestTarget target)
{
final FormComponent thisComponent = getFormComponent();
thisComponent.getForm().visitChildren(new IVisitor()
{
public Object component(Component otherComponent)
{
if (otherComponent.equals(thisComponent))
return
CONTINUE_TRAVERSAL_BUT_DONT_GO_DEEPER;
if (hasMatchingBehavior(otherComponent)
otherComponent.getModelObjectAsString().isEmpty())
{
otherComponent.setModelObject(thisComponent.getModelObject());
target.addComponent(otherComponent);
return
CONTINUE_TRAVERSAL_BUT_DONT_GO_DEEPER;
}
return CONTINUE_TRAVERSAL;
}
});
}
}
On 6/6/07, Peter Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think I will echo Eelco in wishing you all the best with Struts2.
Only thing I could summarize from this mail chain is that, maybe Wicket
needs that one extra out-of-the-box extension of ListView that you can do
say addColumn(String) and will use a Label by default?
Otherwise as I said earlier, it is a waste of time trying to reverse
pre-conceived notions about which is *THE* UI framework to use. Or if you
can point out anything obvious that the docs or examples are missing, I
guess that can be looked into as well.
Thanks,
Peter.
On 6/6/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi John,
John Krasnay wrote:
Amongst Wicket's many advantages, the following stand out for me:
- The ability to encapsulate UI components, including all required
markup, CSS, Javascript, and localization files, into shared JARs on
the classpath. Having a shared component library is key to our team,
since we tend to develop many small Web apps.
- The ability to aggregate smaller components into larger and more
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
This was almost exactly my own reaction to the original assertion that this team has very strong OOP skills. The criticism cited sounded a lot more to me like reflex than any kind of thinking. James McLaughlin-3 wrote: Hi Florian, To be honest, you should have titled this post My team did not make the grade. There are many developers in the world whose skill and ambition rise little above cut and paste robot, and many burned out managers who have decided employees will never be capable of much else. Struts is a perfect framework choice where such conditions coincide. If you are in such a place right now, then for the love of all things holy, move on before your soul, and skills, languish. On the other hand, if you work for a place where the power of OOP is understood, and developer creativity is required and appreciated, Wicket will be the most natural choice. jim On 6/5/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The comparison was a bit skewed where I showed the richness of such components as a DataView(sortable and pageable) in wicket and that was compared with a simple static table on Struts 2. Johan Compagner wrote: Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. and where is then the binding specified? What kind of data should be displayed where? Well how about simply binding a DataView to a the Model and assume that for all wicket:id in the html template I should find a getter method in the bean? regards, Florian PS: I agree wiith all you guys that this is not a big issue... that it's more a question of style/philospophy and possibly fashion. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a11000335 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Florian Hehlen-2 wrote: -It will be easier to hire someone with Struts knowledge on top of the fact that we have some in-house knowledge with it. translation: we don't want to think -Struts is the de-facto standard with a lot of community/vendor/documentation support translation: we don't want to think -Struts seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with struts translation: we don't want to think -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a11000374 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
On 6/7/07, Jonathan Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Florian Hehlen-2 wrote: -It will be easier to hire someone with Struts knowledge on top of the fact that we have some in-house knowledge with it. translation: we don't want to think -Struts is the de-facto standard with a lot of community/vendor/documentation support translation: we don't want to think -Struts seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with struts translation: we don't want to think translation: we're too lazy. But that is how the world is. Technology is here for those who don't want to think. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
[Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
HI all, I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. Is there any plan or push or hidden feature that allows for a bean to be directly mapped to a template without having to declare new Label(...) for each field in the ListView. I think this would be a great win for Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. thanks, Florian. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( it are 2 different worlds.. can you give me an example then with a page with 2 listviews on it that are sortable for example on both struts and wicket ... (ofcourse if i sort one then the other must be stable) But what is then the difference in the number of things you have? in wicket you have just the java and the html what lines of what kind of code do you then not have with struts 2 (keeping the same behavior) One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. a lot of? a simple ListView you just have to implement one method: populateItem() How is that a lot? Is there any plan or push or hidden feature that allows for a bean to be directly mapped to a template without having to declare new Label(...) for each field in the ListView. I think this would be a great win for Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. and where is then the binding specified? What kind of data should be displayed where? johan - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
This is not very difficult to implement. The displaytag example in wicket-examples used to have it and it was based on ListView. But I think we removed it since Repeater/DataView etc from wicket-extension is more flexible and elegant and our preferred approach for most table type implementation. I have no doubts that a customized component can be developed which uses Labels as a default for each cell still giving you the option to use any other component if the default (Label) should ot be used. Juergen. On 6/5/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HI all, I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. Is there any plan or push or hidden feature that allows for a bean to be directly mapped to a template without having to declare new Label(...) for each field in the ListView. I think this would be a great win for Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. thanks, Florian. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Florian Hehlen wrote:
HI all,
I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after
comparison with struts 2. :-(
One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that
there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for
such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as
out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did.
Is there any plan or push or hidden feature that allows for a bean to be
directly mapped to a template without having to declare new Label(...)
for each field in the ListView. I think this would be a great win for
Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one
wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc.
You evidently haven't researched enough, or you'd have realised that
it's trivially easy to create a set of components completely tailored to
your project/company's specific needs, that you can just reuse it across
your project(s) with a few lines of code.
In anything other than a trivially small project, if you're still
thinking in terms of wiring in Labels manually for most listing jobs,
you've completely missed the point.
It's really easy (less than a day, less than an hour if you're good) to
create something that works like this, for example:
DaoDataTable table = new DaoDataTable(myDao, myCriteria);
table.addColumn(name);
table.addColumn(description);
table.addColumn(new IconLinkColumn(ResourceReference icon, String
altTitleMessageKey) {
public void onClick(Object bean) {
// Do foo.
}
});
public class EditColumn extends IconLinkColumn {
public EditColumn() {
super(Icons.EDIT, getString(edit));
}
}
etc., etc.
Nest a ListView columns inside another ListView rows. Put your
dataset in the rows model, and your columns added above in the
columns model. Inside the columns populateItem(), add a Label if you
have a TextColumn, and a Link for the edit stuff. For icons, you can
embed a tiny fragment with an image nested inside a link.
You can then trivially build a higher-level component that embeds the
table along with a paging navigator and a search field or whatever you
like (provided your criteria and/or DAO implement some kind of common
interface to let you do that).
It's useless me just giving you the code for this, as you'd need to
structure your DAOs and Criteria stuff the same way as us. And /that/ is
the reason we don't provide a base component like this in the core
library - everyone wants to do things in slightly different ways.
For CRUD apps, there isn't a one-size-fits-all, as witnessed by how
utterly useless Ruby on Rails' scaffolding is for real production code.
However, the above code is only a couple of hundred lines, and is
reusable across our whole organisation, provided everyone structures
their DAOs in the same way. If they didn't, we could come up with a
slightly less one-size-fits-all way of doing things, but that'd be more
code each time to tie the data layer in appropriately.
If you wanted to, you could even apply annotations to your beans, which
this code could use. So you could have @Editable on the class, and
@ViewInList on the methods you wish to automatically add.
Maybe we should include something like this in wicket-examples. People
just don't seem to appreciate how easy it is to write this stuff.
Al
--
Alastair Maw
Wicket-biased blog at http://herebebeasties.com
-
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Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. All I'll say is that I'm personally sure this is not about technology - this has to be politics, and these colleagues must have already learnt Struts2 and want to protect their investment or have the misconception that Struts2 == Struts1. Or maybe they were swayed by some presentation that used job search statistics to compare web ui frameworks... Sometimes it is a waste of time to try and convince people. Been there done that. Just move on. Regards, Peter. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Hi, The 3 key arguments against wicket were: -It will be easier to hire someone with Struts knowledge on top of the fact that we have some in-house knowledge with it. -Struts is the de-facto standard with a lot of community/vendor/documentation support -Struts seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with struts I agree that it was not a pure technology issue in the end and that the comparison was not purely on technical capabilities. The ability to build clean self-contained components as wicket allows was not at all appreciated. They did not see the potential for us to build our own custom components on top. Oddly enough that was seen as an improper separation of concern because then java is used for presentation aspects like layout. Frankly I think this is an idea that has been manufactured by other frameworks to sell their scattered technology/markup/syntax framework approaches. I have dabbled with other frameworks and thought that for default behavior it would be nice not to have a line of code per label in a table. There was a comment that there is different handling in a DataView. But is that true? I have used them and I had to add new Label(...) in the populateItem() method. anyways... what can you do... I still think wicket is a pretty dam good framework. thanks, florian Peter Thomas wrote: I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. All I'll say is that I'm personally sure this is not about technology - this has to be politics, and these colleagues must have already learnt Struts2 and want to protect their investment or have the misconception that Struts2 == Struts1. Or maybe they were swayed by some presentation that used job search statistics to compare web ui frameworks... Sometimes it is a waste of time to try and convince people. Been there done that. Just move on. Regards, Peter. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
But you've decided to use struts2. Struts 2 is a complete rewrite, it's different than struts 1. -Matej On 6/5/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The 3 key arguments against wicket were: -It will be easier to hire someone with Struts knowledge on top of the fact that we have some in-house knowledge with it. -Struts is the de-facto standard with a lot of community/vendor/documentation support -Struts seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with struts I agree that it was not a pure technology issue in the end and that the comparison was not purely on technical capabilities. The ability to build clean self-contained components as wicket allows was not at all appreciated. They did not see the potential for us to build our own custom components on top. Oddly enough that was seen as an improper separation of concern because then java is used for presentation aspects like layout. Frankly I think this is an idea that has been manufactured by other frameworks to sell their scattered technology/markup/syntax framework approaches. I have dabbled with other frameworks and thought that for default behavior it would be nice not to have a line of code per label in a table. There was a comment that there is different handling in a DataView. But is that true? I have used them and I had to add new Label(...) in the populateItem() method. anyways... what can you do... I still think wicket is a pretty dam good framework. thanks, florian Peter Thomas wrote: I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. All I'll say is that I'm personally sure this is not about technology - this has to be politics, and these colleagues must have already learnt Struts2 and want to protect their investment or have the misconception that Struts2 == Struts1. Or maybe they were swayed by some presentation that used job search statistics to compare web ui frameworks... Sometimes it is a waste of time to try and convince people. Been there done that. Just move on. Regards, Peter. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
hi, oops! first a correction: Struts seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with Struts should have read Wicket seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with Struts2 Struts 2 is a complete re-wite... yes and no. It's nothing like struts 1.x . But it's pretty much a re-branded version of WebWorks. In other words the Struts team marketing strategy worked: Use a well known name and put something else behind it. regards, florian Matej Knopp wrote: But you've decided to use struts2. Struts 2 is a complete rewrite, it's different than struts 1. -Matej On 6/5/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The 3 key arguments against wicket were: -It will be easier to hire someone with Struts knowledge on top of the fact that we have some in-house knowledge with it. -Struts is the de-facto standard with a lot of community/vendor/documentation support -Struts seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with struts I agree that it was not a pure technology issue in the end and that the comparison was not purely on technical capabilities. The ability to build clean self-contained components as wicket allows was not at all appreciated. They did not see the potential for us to build our own custom components on top. Oddly enough that was seen as an improper separation of concern because then java is used for presentation aspects like layout. Frankly I think this is an idea that has been manufactured by other frameworks to sell their scattered technology/markup/syntax framework approaches. I have dabbled with other frameworks and thought that for default behavior it would be nice not to have a line of code per label in a table. There was a comment that there is different handling in a DataView. But is that true? I have used them and I had to add new Label(...) in the populateItem() method. anyways... what can you do... I still think wicket is a pretty dam good framework. thanks, florian Peter Thomas wrote: I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. All I'll say is that I'm personally sure this is not about technology - this has to be politics, and these colleagues must have already learnt Struts2 and want to protect their investment or have the misconception that Struts2 == Struts1. Or maybe they were swayed by some presentation that used job search statistics to compare web ui frameworks... Sometimes it is a waste of time to try and convince people. Been there done that. Just move on. Regards, Peter. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Hi, The comparison was a bit skewed where I showed the richness of such components as a DataView(sortable and pageable) in wicket and that was compared with a simple static table on Struts 2. Johan Compagner wrote: Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. and where is then the binding specified? What kind of data should be displayed where? Well how about simply binding a DataView to a the Model and assume that for all wicket:id in the html template I should find a getter method in the bean? regards, Florian PS: I agree wiith all you guys that this is not a big issue... that it's more a question of style/philospophy and possibly fashion. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Sorry to hear that Florian. But I hope you'll have a good ride with Struts 2 all the same (and that it does solve some of the problems that Struts 1 has). Eelco - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Sorry to barge in, but... I what I really don't get is: Is these science or fiction? Because if those are the kind of arguments... Then I must agree with Peter, its a waste of time, and just say that. They don't see Struts-2 for what it is, they don't see Wicket for what it is. What is the point indeed of trying? f(t) On 6/5/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hi, oops! first a correction: Struts seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with Struts should have read Wicket seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with Struts2 Struts 2 is a complete re-wite... yes and no. It's nothing like struts 1.x. But it's pretty much a re-branded version of WebWorks. In other words the Struts team marketing strategy worked: Use a well known name and put something else behind it. regards, florian Matej Knopp wrote: But you've decided to use struts2. Struts 2 is a complete rewrite, it's different than struts 1. -Matej On 6/5/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The 3 key arguments against wicket were: -It will be easier to hire someone with Struts knowledge on top of the fact that we have some in-house knowledge with it. -Struts is the de-facto standard with a lot of community/vendor/documentation support -Struts seems heavy on the java-code required for things that are pretty simple with struts I agree that it was not a pure technology issue in the end and that the comparison was not purely on technical capabilities. The ability to build clean self-contained components as wicket allows was not at all appreciated. They did not see the potential for us to build our own custom components on top. Oddly enough that was seen as an improper separation of concern because then java is used for presentation aspects like layout. Frankly I think this is an idea that has been manufactured by other frameworks to sell their scattered technology/markup/syntax framework approaches. I have dabbled with other frameworks and thought that for default behavior it would be nice not to have a line of code per label in a table. There was a comment that there is different handling in a DataView. But is that true? I have used them and I had to add new Label(...) in the populateItem() method. anyways... what can you do... I still think wicket is a pretty dam good framework. thanks, florian Peter Thomas wrote: I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. All I'll say is that I'm personally sure this is not about technology - this has to be politics, and these colleagues must have already learnt Struts2 and want to protect their investment or have the misconception that Struts2 == Struts1. Or maybe they were swayed by some presentation that used job search statistics to compare web ui frameworks... Sometimes it is a waste of time to try and convince people. Been there done that. Just move on. Regards, Peter. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Hi Florian, To be honest, you should have titled this post My team did not make the grade. There are many developers in the world whose skill and ambition rise little above cut and paste robot, and many burned out managers who have decided employees will never be capable of much else. Struts is a perfect framework choice where such conditions coincide. If you are in such a place right now, then for the love of all things holy, move on before your soul, and skills, languish. On the other hand, if you work for a place where the power of OOP is understood, and developer creativity is required and appreciated, Wicket will be the most natural choice. jim On 6/5/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The comparison was a bit skewed where I showed the richness of such components as a DataView(sortable and pageable) in wicket and that was compared with a simple static table on Struts 2. Johan Compagner wrote: Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. and where is then the binding specified? What kind of data should be displayed where? Well how about simply binding a DataView to a the Model and assume that for all wicket:id in the html template I should find a getter method in the bean? regards, Florian PS: I agree wiith all you guys that this is not a big issue... that it's more a question of style/philospophy and possibly fashion. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Is it possible to agree more with this post? f(t) On 6/5/07, James McLaughlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Florian, To be honest, you should have titled this post My team did not make the grade. There are many developers in the world whose skill and ambition rise little above cut and paste robot, and many burned out managers who have decided employees will never be capable of much else. Struts is a perfect framework choice where such conditions coincide. If you are in such a place right now, then for the love of all things holy, move on before your soul, and skills, languish. On the other hand, if you work for a place where the power of OOP is understood, and developer creativity is required and appreciated, Wicket will be the most natural choice. jim On 6/5/07, Florian Hehlen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, The comparison was a bit skewed where I showed the richness of such components as a DataView(sortable and pageable) in wicket and that was compared with a simple static table on Struts 2. Johan Compagner wrote: Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. and where is then the binding specified? What kind of data should be displayed where? Well how about simply binding a DataView to a the Model and assume that for all wicket:id in the html template I should find a getter method in the bean? regards, Florian PS: I agree wiith all you guys that this is not a big issue... that it's more a question of style/philospophy and possibly fashion. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Al Maw wrote: Maybe we should include something like this in wicket-examples. People just don't seem to appreciate how easy it is to write this stuff. Absolutely you should do this. Two big reasons I was able to persuade my current client to go with Wicket were the excellent examples and the great forum support. You can never have too much sample code. Julian -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a10972399 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Hear, hear...well said, Jim! jk On Tue, Jun 05, 2007 at 10:42:16AM -0500, James McLaughlin wrote: Hi Florian, To be honest, you should have titled this post My team did not make the grade. There are many developers in the world whose skill and ambition rise little above cut and paste robot, and many burned out managers who have decided employees will never be capable of much else. Struts is a perfect framework choice where such conditions coincide. If you are in such a place right now, then for the love of all things holy, move on before your soul, and skills, languish. On the other hand, if you work for a place where the power of OOP is understood, and developer creativity is required and appreciated, Wicket will be the most natural choice. jim - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
On Tue, 05 Jun 2007, Florian Hehlen wrote: Well how about simply binding a DataView to a the Model and assume that for all wicket:id in the html template I should find a getter method in the bean? This sounds like a CompoundPropertyModel in use http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/more-on-models.html then you can have something like add(new Label(firstName)); add(new Label(lastName)); But if this is too much, I suppose you cannot do with a lot less in wicket. Except maybe by reading the property names with reflection from the bean :) I for one find the 1:1 mapping between wicket:ids in HTML and java code a good thing. - Timo -- Timo Rantalaiho Reaktor Innovations OyURL: http://www.ri.fi/ - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] wicket did not make the grade.
Sorry to hear that. I would be interested to hear how many companies are usng Wicket, and how many of those companies switched to Wicket from other frameworks. Personally, I think Wicket is the best framework I have come across. True separation of concerns is the mantra we should use when asked why Wicket. Let web designers do their magic with web site design, and leave Java coders handle the components. Florian Hehlen-2 wrote: HI all, I am sad to announce that my company did not choose to use wicket after comparison with struts 2. :-( One criticism that came out as we were looking at Wicket code was that there seems to be a need to write a lot of Java code in a ListView for such things as displaying a table. Although I did not see this issue as out-weighing all the benefits, many of my colleagues did. Is there any plan or push or hidden feature that allows for a bean to be directly mapped to a template without having to declare new Label(...) for each field in the ListView. I think this would be a great win for Wicket if adding those low-level components was only necessary when one wants to add special handling, formating, validation, etc. thanks, Florian. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/wicket-did-not-make-the-grade.-tf386.html#a10982276 Sent from the Wicket - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - This SF.net email is sponsored by DB2 Express Download DB2 Express C - the FREE version of DB2 express and take control of your XML. No limits. Just data. Click to get it now. http://sourceforge.net/powerbar/db2/ ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
