Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
I just tried this jdk: http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/java/jdk/eclipse/ This is J9 from IBM which is java5 jdk as far as i can see. And what that jdk can do is method additions! In my first simple test i could rename a method in a class and re factor all the calls to it. And the next time i just jumped into that method. johan On 11/22/06, Johan Compagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DevLoader doesn't do that work. DevLoader is there for you to be able to have a Web application of your project that has libs and references to other projects and see those if they where in the WEB-INF/lib dir.. We replace the classloader of tomcat to be able to load jars from other places. about the original question: Why can tapestry do this and wicket doesn't? thats easy. The component structure of tapestry is not stored in the session. So when that happens you can make a classloader per component or per page. And when a request comes in for that page. (getting it back from the pool) you first check and reload the classes for that page. And then give it back to request that then stores the state back in. This can't be done by wicket. Because wicket stores it in the session. and at the moment you do that you can never do that because everything that is in the session should be loaded by the application servers webapp classloader. If not everything failes (clustering/fail over you name it) We also can't improve the DevLoader (that is the webapp classloader in development in tomcat) because when you reload the classes you have to make sure that all instances of that class are also first unloaded (serialized and then reloaded back in with the new classloader/classes) But this is again not really possible in wicket because the components can be everywhere. No we have to wait for improved hotswap code of hotspot. Which is in my eyes LONG overdue! http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=572396messageID=4153535 johan On 11/22/06, Alexei Sokolov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, There is a sysdeo tomcat plugin for eclipse which can be configured with a special 'devloader' classloader. With this config you'll see changes right after you saved your java source. But it won't help with nice urls ;) Alex On 11/21/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is one big answer: Tapestry is a managed framework, whereas Wicket is not. Tapestry owns component creation and 'state handling' (you have to declare any state as something that needs to be managed for Tapestry). I think Tapestry intercept in the class loading mechanism too, but I haven't looked deeply into it. As Wicket is just Java, we probably have to wait for the improvements in the JDK (which are coming). Eelco On 11/21/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
On Tue, 2006-11-21 at 15:10 -0800, Eelco Hillenius wrote: On 11/21/06, Alexei Sokolov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, There is a sysdeo tomcat plugin for eclipse which can be configured with a special 'devloader' classloader. With this config you'll see changes right after you saved your java source. But it won't help with nice urls ;) That's actually a Java feature. Works out of the box with eclipse and probably other IDEs, so if you run with Jetty (see the runner in the wicket-examples project), that'll work. BUT... only for method implementations, no structural changes. There is a feature request that is in the top 10 of requested features, and that SUN is working on: http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4910812 Just downloaded OpenJDK and it seems that better hotswap is already implemented. Take a look at src/share/vm/prims/jvmtiRedefineClasses.cpp and method 'redefine_single_class'. Unfortunately I couldn't get it work, but lets hope this will be fixed soon. Joni - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
DevLoader doesn't do that work. DevLoader is there for you to be able to have a Web application of your project that has libs and references to other projects and see those if they where in the WEB-INF/lib dir.. We replace the classloader of tomcat to be able to load jars from other places. about the original question: Why can tapestry do this and wicket doesn't? thats easy. The component structure of tapestry is not stored in the session. So when that happens you can make a classloader per component or per page. And when a request comes in for that page. (getting it back from the pool) you first check and reload the classes for that page. And then give it back to request that then stores the state back in. This can't be done by wicket. Because wicket stores it in the session. and at the moment you do that you can never do that because everything that is in the session should be loaded by the application servers webapp classloader. If not everything failes (clustering/fail over you name it) We also can't improve the DevLoader (that is the webapp classloader in development in tomcat) because when you reload the classes you have to make sure that all instances of that class are also first unloaded (serialized and then reloaded back in with the new classloader/classes) But this is again not really possible in wicket because the components can be everywhere. No we have to wait for improved hotswap code of hotspot. Which is in my eyes LONG overdue! http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?threadID=572396messageID=4153535 johan On 11/22/06, Alexei Sokolov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, There is a sysdeo tomcat plugin for eclipse which can be configured with a special 'devloader' classloader. With this config you'll see changes right after you saved your java source. But it won't help with nice urls ;) Alex On 11/21/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is one big answer: Tapestry is a managed framework, whereas Wicket is not. Tapestry owns component creation and 'state handling' (you have to declare any state as something that needs to be managed for Tapestry). I think Tapestry intercept in the class loading mechanism too, but I haven't looked deeply into it. As Wicket is just Java, we probably have to wait for the improvements in the JDK (which are coming). Eelco On 11/21/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
also what does this feature have to do with URLS? On 11/21/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Don't underestimate the power of viral marketing for the Wicket framework... having Wicket being part of every URL on the planet would generate major mindshare. Martijn On 11/22/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- a href=http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/vote_for/wicket;Vote/a for a href=http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/stuff/wicket;Wicket/a at the a href=http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/;Best Stuff in the World!/a - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Especially if it was appended to www.google.com :P Frank On 11/22/06, Martijn Dashorst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't underestimate the power of viral marketing for the Wicket framework... having Wicket being part of every URL on the planet would generate major mindshare. Martijn On 11/22/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- a href=http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/vote_for/wicket;Vote/a for a href=http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/stuff/wicket Wicket/a at the a href=http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/;Best Stuff in the World!/a - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
when do you choose an url? urls only have to be nice when they are exported like links you click on in external resources, mails for example internally it doesn't matter to much for the webapplications you make with wicket. johan On 11/22/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
But www.google.com/wicket/Start.html by default would be the best of all worlds :-) I put a question yesterday on how to use mounted urls repeatedly without breaking page session. I think it's important to make that possible. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Martijn Dashorst [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:42:00 To:wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads Don't underestimate the power of viral marketing for the Wicket framework... having Wicket being part of every URL on the planet would generate major mindshare. Martijn On 11/22/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- a href=http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/vote_for/wicket;Vote/a for a href=http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/stuff/wicket;Wicket/a at the a href=http://www.thebeststuffintheworld.com/;Best Stuff in the World!/a - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Frank Bille wrote: Especially if it was appended to www.google.com http://www.google.com :P Having just been to an 'open source jam' at Google's office last week (where I met Al), they would barely state what languages they used, let alone disclose what frameworks they use. So, in Google's case, having Wicket in the URL would rule Wicket out entirely. Unfortunately, (and perhaps more importantly) I suspect that could also be the case for other large corporations. Upayavira - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Make /wicket the default mapping, and most people will never change it :-) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Upayavira [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 14:29:06 To:wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads Frank Bille wrote: Especially if it was appended to www.google.com http://www.google.com :P Having just been to an 'open source jam' at Google's office last week (where I met Al), they would barely state what languages they used, let alone disclose what frameworks they use. So, in Google's case, having Wicket in the URL would rule Wicket out entirely. Unfortunately, (and perhaps more importantly) I suspect that could also be the case for other large corporations. Upayavira - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? Or don't your users do that? The additional information in url is not there for fun. There is a good reason for that. And give us some time, after the refactor planed for 2.0 it should be possible to get rid of the wicket thing from url. -Matej cowwoc wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? thats the wrong question! - the question would be: what behaviour would the enduser expect when he uses 2 browserwindows/tabs for 1 website? I found out that most enduser just do this, to keep a site as a way to note or remind things - if they do this and e.g. put sth. in a cart they expect to have both carts (in the browsers) identical... meaning the bahavior the big ones (amazon co) have. Ragards - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
you can already get rid of the wicket prefix if you want. copy paste this class: change the static final namespace variable. johan On 11/22/06, Matej Knopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? Or don't your users do that? The additional information in url is not there for fun. There is a good reason for that. And give us some time, after the refactor planed for 2.0 it should be possible to get rid of the wicket thing from url. -Matej cowwoc wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
hmmm forgot to copy paste myself :) the class in question is WebRequestCodingStrategy On 11/22/06, Johan Compagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you can already get rid of the wicket prefix if you want. copy paste this class: change the static final namespace variable. johan On 11/22/06, Matej Knopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? Or don't your users do that? The additional information in url is not there for fun. There is a good reason for that. And give us some time, after the refactor planed for 2.0 it should be possible to get rid of the wicket thing from url. -Matej cowwoc wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net 's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
I think you're missing a very important use-case. I created a Wicket webapp at work, what happens on a weekly basis is that someone sees something he wants to discuss so he copy/pastes the URL from his browser into an email. Non-nice URLs shouldn't even be visible for people to mistakenly export. Sometimes someone just wants to give someone else a link to my webapp (not expecting it to display anything in particular) and it just so happens their browser has it open with a non-nice URL. Again, they will copy/paste that and the receiver will get an ugly URL and Page Expired. Gili Johan Compagner wrote: when do you choose an url? urls only have to be nice when they are exported like links you click on in external resources, mails for example internally it doesn't matter to much for the webapplications you make with wicket. johan On 11/22/06, *cowwoc* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
if you want to support that always redirect to a Bookmarkable page class setResponsePage(MyPage.class) setRedirect(true) johan On 11/22/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you're missing a very important use-case. I created a Wicket webapp at work, what happens on a weekly basis is that someone sees something he wants to discuss so he copy/pastes the URL from his browser into an email. Non-nice URLs shouldn't even be visible for people to mistakenly export. Sometimes someone just wants to give someone else a link to my webapp (not expecting it to display anything in particular) and it just so happens their browser has it open with a non-nice URL. Again, they will copy/paste that and the receiver will get an ugly URL and Page Expired. Gili Johan Compagner wrote: when do you choose an url? urls only have to be nice when they are exported like links you click on in external resources, mails for example internally it doesn't matter to much for the webapplications you make with wicket. johan On 11/22/06, *cowwoc* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys -
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
But this is something completely different. Cart is shared between pages, usually stored in session. Cart is not specific for every pages. But if you have a tabbed panel in a page, you want to have one tab opened in one window and another tab opened in second window. That's what users require. At least my users do require that. And that's also what I expect from a web application. If you want to have singleton pages, go ahead, nothing prevents you from that. Just do your own PageFactory class that pools pages (session relative) and then always redirect to bookmarkable/mounted URL. You'll get the same behavior tapestry seems to have. -Matej Korbinian Bachl wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? thats the wrong question! - the question would be: what behaviour would the enduser expect when he uses 2 browserwindows/tabs for 1 website? I found out that most enduser just do this, to keep a site as a way to note or remind things - if they do this and e.g. put sth. in a cart they expect to have both carts (in the browsers) identical... meaning the bahavior the big ones (amazon co) have. Ragards - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
If you can't copy/paste that additional information anyway (because you'll get a Page Expired) then it shouldn't be visible at all so people don't even make the mistake of including it. I agree with you that Wicket somehow has to know that window1 has a different state than window2 and if this isn't reflected somehow in the URL then where is it stored? But I am also saying that Tapestry seems to do that *somehow* and if we can do the same then we should do so. Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? Or don't your users do that? The additional information in url is not there for fun. There is a good reason for that. And give us some time, after the refactor planed for 2.0 it should be possible to get rid of the wicket thing from url. -Matej cowwoc wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Are you even sure tapestry is doing that? -Matej cowwoc wrote: If you can't copy/paste that additional information anyway (because you'll get a Page Expired) then it shouldn't be visible at all so people don't even make the mistake of including it. I agree with you that Wicket somehow has to know that window1 has a different state than window2 and if this isn't reflected somehow in the URL then where is it stored? But I am also saying that Tapestry seems to do that *somehow* and if we can do the same then we should do so. Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? Or don't your users do that? The additional information in url is not there for fun. There is a good reason for that. And give us some time, after the refactor planed for 2.0 it should be possible to get rid of the wicket thing from url. -Matej cowwoc wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
I was just thinking about that now... And suddenly i have a question: Why do we have the new window/tab check again in the page? I couldn't care less anymore about a page being in 2 browsers (and in the same pagemap) Just be sure that versioning works so if the page is changed in one window it can be reverted in the other window when a user clicks. And with the second level pagemap all pages and every version of the page can be get back.. johan On 11/22/06, Matej Knopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But this is something completely different. Cart is shared between pages, usually stored in session. Cart is not specific for every pages. But if you have a tabbed panel in a page, you want to have one tab opened in one window and another tab opened in second window. That's what users require. At least my users do require that. And that's also what I expect from a web application. If you want to have singleton pages, go ahead, nothing prevents you from that. Just do your own PageFactory class that pools pages (session relative) and then always redirect to bookmarkable/mounted URL. You'll get the same behavior tapestry seems to have. -Matej Korbinian Bachl wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? thats the wrong question! - the question would be: what behaviour would the enduser expect when he uses 2 browserwindows/tabs for 1 website? I found out that most enduser just do this, to keep a site as a way to note or remind things - if they do this and e.g. put sth. in a cart they expect to have both carts (in the browsers) identical... meaning the bahavior the big ones (amazon co) have. Ragards - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
But if you have a tabbed panel in a page, you want to have one tab opened in one window and another tab opened in second window. That's what users require. At least my users do require that. And that's also what I expect from a web application. this is the point i mean - ive never seen people using 2 browserwindows/ tabs at same time... they just open and forgot it or come back later to it... If you want to have singleton pages, go ahead, nothing prevents you from that. Just do your own PageFactory class that pools pages (session relative) and then always redirect to bookmarkable/mounted URL. You'll get the same behavior tapestry seems to have. oh, im satisfied wiht the wicket mode in 95% :) I mean it usually doenst depend on the developer but on the customer what the behavior will be... Regards -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Matej Knopp Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. November 2006 16:36 An: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Betreff: Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads But this is something completely different. Cart is shared between pages, usually stored in session. Cart is not specific for every pages. But if you have a tabbed panel in a page, you want to have one tab opened in one window and another tab opened in second window. That's what users require. At least my users do require that. And that's also what I expect from a web application. If you want to have singleton pages, go ahead, nothing prevents you from that. Just do your own PageFactory class that pools pages (session relative) and then always redirect to bookmarkable/mounted URL. You'll get the same behavior tapestry seems to have. -Matej Korbinian Bachl wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? thats the wrong question! - the question would be: what behaviour would the enduser expect when he uses 2 browserwindows/tabs for 1 website? I found out that most enduser just do this, to keep a site as a way to note or remind things - if they do this and e.g. put sth. in a cart they expect to have both carts (in the browsers) identical... meaning the bahavior the big ones (amazon co) have. Ragards -- --- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEV DEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- --- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforge CID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
I don't know about the check. IMHO it should be disabled by default. Now that we have second level session store there's not need for that script and multiple pagemap. No need at all. -Matej Johan Compagner wrote: I was just thinking about that now... And suddenly i have a question: Why do we have the new window/tab check again in the page? I couldn't care less anymore about a page being in 2 browsers (and in the same pagemap) Just be sure that versioning works so if the page is changed in one window it can be reverted in the other window when a user clicks. And with the second level pagemap all pages and every version of the page can be get back.. johan On 11/22/06, *Matej Knopp* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But this is something completely different. Cart is shared between pages, usually stored in session. Cart is not specific for every pages. But if you have a tabbed panel in a page, you want to have one tab opened in one window and another tab opened in second window. That's what users require. At least my users do require that. And that's also what I expect from a web application. If you want to have singleton pages, go ahead, nothing prevents you from that. Just do your own PageFactory class that pools pages (session relative) and then always redirect to bookmarkable/mounted URL. You'll get the same behavior tapestry seems to have. -Matej Korbinian Bachl wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? thats the wrong question! - the question would be: what behaviour would the enduser expect when he uses 2 browserwindows/tabs for 1 website? I found out that most enduser just do this, to keep a site as a way to note or remind things - if they do this and e.g. put sth. in a cart they expect to have both carts (in the browsers) identical... meaning the bahavior the big ones (amazon co) have. Ragards - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net 's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
i could do that.. Just make a form post of every link then store state in a special field (see 2.0 that has partial implementation already) If you refresh the browsers url then we have to have the static mounts (that we talked about) and the page for that class is found and rendered (or not found then created) johan On 11/22/06, Matej Knopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you even sure tapestry is doing that? -Matej cowwoc wrote: If you can't copy/paste that additional information anyway (because you'll get a Page Expired) then it shouldn't be visible at all so people don't even make the mistake of including it. I agree with you that Wicket somehow has to know that window1 has a different state than window2 and if this isn't reflected somehow in the URL then where is it stored? But I am also saying that Tapestry seems to do that *somehow* and if we can do the same then we should do so. Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? Or don't your users do that? The additional information in url is not there for fun. There is a good reason for that. And give us some time, after the refactor planed for 2.0 it should be possible to get rid of the wicket thing from url. -Matej cowwoc wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
This is just ugly. And I'm not even sure it would work while preserving current no-double-posts policy. Imagine you're doing a form post now. After the post processed, wicket makes redirects. But if you want to send the page id as post information, you can't redirect! So you have two options. Don't redirect (do nothing), but then you're risking double posts, or instead of redirect write a empty page with a javascript that makes the post (slow and ugly as hell). Or is there a option I'm missing? -Matej Johan Compagner wrote: i could do that.. Just make a form post of every link then store state in a special field (see 2.0 that has partial implementation already) If you refresh the browsers url then we have to have the static mounts (that we talked about) and the page for that class is found and rendered (or not found then created) johan On 11/22/06, *Matej Knopp* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you even sure tapestry is doing that? -Matej cowwoc wrote: If you can't copy/paste that additional information anyway (because you'll get a Page Expired) then it shouldn't be visible at all so people don't even make the mistake of including it. I agree with you that Wicket somehow has to know that window1 has a different state than window2 and if this isn't reflected somehow in the URL then where is it stored? But I am also saying that Tapestry seems to do that *somehow* and if we can do the same then we should do so. Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? Or don't your users do that? The additional information in url is not there for fun. There is a good reason for that. And give us some time, after the refactor planed for 2.0 it should be possible to get rid of the wicket thing from url. -Matej cowwoc wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
yeah? and what happens when your component property is not a primitive? are you then happy with http://www.google.com/Start.html?param1=A98AS98AA8947A8947A8947A89478A97A94879A847A9879A8479A8479A847A9847A9487A4987A4987A498A749A8749A8479A84789A7498A7498A7498A47A9847A984789A7498A4 which would be the base64 encoded string of that non primitive? or would you like to make everything into a post and have client pages get huge? or do you only restrict component properties to primitives? -igor On 11/22/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
emm - thats what i wrote... you dont use them equally, but use one and come back then... the current way allows to change the browser windows or even use them equally - but thats nothing a human does, as he usually uses it as a bokmark, note, info or sth. like that _ Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Igor Vaynberg Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. November 2006 17:22 An: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Betreff: Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads i do it all the time. i am at some point in a webapp, i rightclick on a link do open in a new window and work in the new window. then when im done i close the new window and continue working in the new one. so for me opening a new tab is like keeping a bookmark in the app. -igor On 11/22/06, Korbinian Bachl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But if you have a tabbed panel in a page, you want to have one tab opened in one window and another tab opened in second window. That's what users require. At least my users do require that. And that's also what I expect from a web application. this is the point i mean - ive never seen people using 2 browserwindows/ tabs at same time... they just open and forgot it or come back later to it... If you want to have singleton pages, go ahead, nothing prevents you from that. Just do your own PageFactory class that pools pages (session relative) and then always redirect to bookmarkable/mounted URL. You'll get the same behavior tapestry seems to have. oh, im satisfied wiht the wicket mode in 95% :) I mean it usually doenst depend on the developer but on the customer what the behavior will be... Regards -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ] Im Auftrag von Matej Knopp Gesendet: Mittwoch, 22. November 2006 16:36 An: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Betreff: Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads But this is something completely different. Cart is shared between pages, usually stored in session. Cart is not specific for every pages. But if you have a tabbed panel in a page, you want to have one tab opened in one window and another tab opened in second window. That's what users require. At least my users do require that. And that's also what I expect from a web application. If you want to have singleton pages, go ahead, nothing prevents you from that. Just do your own PageFactory class that pools pages (session relative) and then always redirect to bookmarkable/mounted URL. You'll get the same behavior tapestry seems to have. -Matej Korbinian Bachl wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? thats the wrong question! - the question would be: what behaviour would the enduser expect when he uses 2 browserwindows/tabs for 1 website? I found out that most enduser just do this, to keep a site as a way to note or remind things - if they do this and e.g. put sth. in a cart they expect to have both carts (in the browsers) identical... meaning the bahavior the big ones (amazon co) have. Ragards -- --- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEV p=sourceforgeCID=DEV DEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user -- --- Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforge p=sourceforge CID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.php http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV p=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
the classloader will still barf after certain situations i think. when you add a new property for example and refresh a page, what happens? a new instance of that component/page is created, but the property's value is not in the url which might lead to some weird invalid state scenarios. -igor On 11/21/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Really, what is the hangup on URLs anyway. Do you ever get stressed out by seeing an URL like http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/102-2078604-2484922?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooksfield-keywords=donkeyGo.x=0Go.y=0Go=Go ? Eelco On 11/22/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
I think you're missing a very important use-case. I created a Wicket webapp at work, what happens on a weekly basis is that someone sees something he wants to discuss so he copy/pastes the URL from his browser into an email. Non-nice URLs shouldn't even be visible for people to mistakenly export. Sometimes someone just wants to give someone else a link to my webapp (not expecting it to display anything in particular) and it just so happens their browser has it open with a non-nice URL. Again, they will copy/paste that and the receiver will get an ugly URL and Page Expired. So PLAN for that then. If you want a URL to be bookmarkable implement that! What about step X of wizard Y? The checkout part of an online store? Stuff like that... did you ever try to send an email with a link like that and expect it to work? Eelco - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
No. ONE part of the story is back button support. IN CASE you are using the second level session store thing that is default for 1.3 and 2.0 now, we don't need that multi-window support. If you don't use that, but e.g instead use the older page maps, you DO need it, as you don't want one window to be the reason another window expires. But the SECOND part of the story is the fact that we can recognize we're in separate windows in the first place. That's useful stuff to know at times! You can debate whether that should be turned on by default (I think it should, in order to support case one completely), but the functionality is useful without doubt imo. The API is still kind of awkward, but it is possible to e.g. use the page map to store information about the current user so that you can have separate users in separate windows, while still maintaining a nice programming model (alternatively, you could pass the current user around everywhere, but that would really suck). Eelco On 11/22/06, Johan Compagner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i could do that.. Just make a form post of every link then store state in a special field (see 2.0 that has partial implementation already) If you refresh the browsers url then we have to have the static mounts (that we talked about) and the page for that class is found and rendered (or not found then created) johan On 11/22/06, Matej Knopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are you even sure tapestry is doing that? -Matej cowwoc wrote: If you can't copy/paste that additional information anyway (because you'll get a Page Expired) then it shouldn't be visible at all so people don't even make the mistake of including it. I agree with you that Wicket somehow has to know that window1 has a different state than window2 and if this isn't reflected somehow in the URL then where is it stored? But I am also saying that Tapestry seems to do that *somehow* and if we can do the same then we should do so. Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Again and again. What would do if you open the start.html page in two browsers windows? Or don't your users do that? The additional information in url is not there for fun. There is a good reason for that. And give us some time, after the refactor planed for 2.0 it should be possible to get rid of the wicket thing from url. -Matej cowwoc wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Look, this discussion every time again is getting old. It has been stated many times before: the difference between Wicket and many other frameworks is that Wicket's URL are 'safe' *by default*; if you want them to be public (bookmarkable), you have to be explicit about it. With other frameworks, you have to do something extra to make the URL's secure. Imo, and certainly for the desktop-like apps I'm building, the safe by default option is better. For public facing, open apps, this might be inconvenient. But it is not much work to make pages bookmarkable, and we're still working (Matej had some cool ideas) to improve URLs so that even non-bookmarkable pages are recoverable to some extend. However, Wicket will be a safe by default framework in future too. If that's something that is problematic for you, you can always consider using another framework. But you'll find there is always something *not* to like about a framework. Eelco On 11/22/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you're missing a very important use-case. I created a Wicket webapp at work, what happens on a weekly basis is that someone sees something he wants to discuss so he copy/pastes the URL from his browser into an email. Non-nice URLs shouldn't even be visible for people to mistakenly export. Sometimes someone just wants to give someone else a link to my webapp (not expecting it to display anything in particular) and it just so happens their browser has it open with a non-nice URL. Again, they will copy/paste that and the receiver will get an ugly URL and Page Expired. So PLAN for that then. If you want a URL to be bookmarkable implement that! What about step X of wizard Y? The checkout part of an online store? Stuff like that... did you ever try to send an email with a link like that and expect it to work? Eelco - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Again, I refer you to Tapestry. Obviously I wouldn't want the kind of URL you pasted but if you look at Tapestry's screencast they don't add *anything* to the URL. Now, it could very well be that this is something specific to small examples and does not work for bigger ones but it could also very well be that Tapestry is handling this in some way we're not familiar with. Gili Igor Vaynberg wrote: yeah? and what happens when your component property is not a primitive? are you then happy with http://www.google.com/Start.html?param1=A98AS98AA8947A8947A8947A89478A97A94879A847A9879A8479A8479A847A9847A9487A4987A4987A498A749A8749A8479A84789A7498A7498A7498A47A9847A984789A7498A4 which would be the base64 encoded string of that non primitive? or would you like to make everything into a post and have client pages get huge? or do you only restrict component properties to primitives? -igor On 11/22/06, *cowwoc* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
you dont see the ugly because the screencast is a freaking helloworld app and the properties used are primitives. its so typical, someone puts out a screencast of helloworld with zero complexity because it is a helloworld and everyone jumps up and down screaming: oh how cool is that? i want to see a dynamic wizard example, or an example where navigation is stack-like/breadcrumbs where you can go back to where you came from and have the state of the previous page preserved. i want to use a framework where i dont have to leak the index property of loop's component into the page scope. if you like tapestry so much then please go use tapestry. -igor On 11/22/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I refer you to Tapestry. Obviously I wouldn't want the kind of URL you pasted but if you look at Tapestry's screencast they don't add *anything* to the URL. Now, it could very well be that this is something specific to small examples and does not work for bigger ones but it could also very well be that Tapestry is handling this in some way we're not familiar with. Gili Igor Vaynberg wrote: yeah? and what happens when your component property is not a primitive? are you then happy with http://www.google.com/Start.html?param1=A98AS98AA8947A8947A8947A89478A97A94879A847A9879A8479A8479A847A9847A9487A4987A4987A498A749A8749A8479A84789A7498A7498A7498A47A9847A984789A7498A4 which would be the base64 encoded string of that non primitive? or would you like to make everything into a post and have client pages get huge? or do you only restrict component properties to primitives? -igor On 11/22/06, *cowwoc* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
When Wicket 2.0 is released and I can use bookmarkable forms I will quite gladly use it. I am simply pointing out the problems with the current design. BTW, Wicket 2.0 does completely solve this, right? Gili Eelco Hillenius wrote: I think you're missing a very important use-case. I created a Wicket webapp at work, what happens on a weekly basis is that someone sees something he wants to discuss so he copy/pastes the URL from his browser into an email. Non-nice URLs shouldn't even be visible for people to mistakenly export. Sometimes someone just wants to give someone else a link to my webapp (not expecting it to display anything in particular) and it just so happens their browser has it open with a non-nice URL. Again, they will copy/paste that and the receiver will get an ugly URL and Page Expired. So PLAN for that then. If you want a URL to be bookmarkable implement that! What about step X of wizard Y? The checkout part of an online store? Stuff like that... did you ever try to send an email with a link like that and expect it to work? Eelco - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
if they dont add anything to the url then the url might look pretty but two people coming to it will see different things because all the info is stored in session. so it makes what you want even worse. at least with wicket you get a page expired page, with tapestry you get a page but you see something totally different then the person who emailed you the url. -igor On 11/22/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I refer you to Tapestry. Obviously I wouldn't want the kind of URL you pasted but if you look at Tapestry's screencast they don't add *anything* to the URL. Now, it could very well be that this is something specific to small examples and does not work for bigger ones but it could also very well be that Tapestry is handling this in some way we're not familiar with. Gili Igor Vaynberg wrote: yeah? and what happens when your component property is not a primitive? are you then happy with http://www.google.com/Start.html?param1=A98AS98AA8947A8947A8947A89478A97A94879A847A9879A8479A8479A847A9847A9487A4987A4987A498A749A8749A8479A84789A7498A7498A7498A47A9847A984789A7498A4 which would be the base64 encoded string of that non primitive? or would you like to make everything into a post and have client pages get huge? or do you only restrict component properties to primitives? -igor On 11/22/06, *cowwoc* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: heh, if I had to choose between: http://www.google.com/Start.html and http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: I'd choose the first time time and time again. There is the interface part which I'd love to hide from users (they shouldn't ever be explicitly pasting that anyway because you'll end up with Page Expired) and there is also the fact that they don't seem to require some sort of base context path or there is some sort of magic going on to hide it. Either way it looks better than Wicket :) Gili Matej Knopp wrote: Nice URLS? Well.. I don't know, to me it doesn't look that great. I mean it seem to miss an information. What happens if you open the page in multiple browser windows? If the URL is same, how will tapestry reconstruct the data? And also, does the Tapestry 5 finally supports dynamically changing components hierarchy? Or nested components? Or is it still the [1]page [0..n]Components approach? In Wicket the URLs will look much better in 2.0 than they look now - as we will persist the mount path after requests, but it will take some time to implement. -Matej cowwoc wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net mailto:Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Eelco, one of the points I tried making (and seemed to have gotten lost in the loop) is this: 1) User is viewing a non-bookmarkable page http://www.google.com/Main/Start?wicket:interface=:0:: but wicket displays http://www.google.com/Start in his URL bar instead (not sure if this is technically possible, but assume it is this for a moment) 2) If the user then tries copy/pasting the URL into someone else's browser it'll display the original bookmarkable page which led to the non-bookmarkable page. The benefit there is that the user will never get a Page Expired page and instead get behavior we already see on other commercial websites which is basically that users understand that Amazon stores some some personal information in your browser cookie and *some* URLs you cannot simply copy/pasted to your friend and if you do it'll take you to some alternate page instead. For example, if you go to Amazon, add some book to your cart do checkout and copy/paste that the URL into someone else's browser it'll recover gracefully by redirecting you to some page displaying something related to cart (maybe it displays your cart as empty) or some page displaying a list of products. The point is that it handles this gracefully instead of displaying any sort of oops you screwed up page. I am suggesting you might consider making this behavior default in Wicket production mode. Even if you can't hide the non-bookmarkable URLs in step 1, consider making it such that if a user pastes it into a browser it redirects him to the original bookmarkable instead of the Page Expired page (or you could make this behavior further configurable by adding some hooks). Just food for thought. It might be a good idea or not. Gili Eelco Hillenius wrote: Look, this discussion every time again is getting old. It has been stated many times before: the difference between Wicket and many other frameworks is that Wicket's URL are 'safe' *by default*; if you want them to be public (bookmarkable), you have to be explicit about it. With other frameworks, you have to do something extra to make the URL's secure. Imo, and certainly for the desktop-like apps I'm building, the safe by default option is better. For public facing, open apps, this might be inconvenient. But it is not much work to make pages bookmarkable, and we're still working (Matej had some cool ideas) to improve URLs so that even non-bookmarkable pages are recoverable to some extend. However, Wicket will be a safe by default framework in future too. If that's something that is problematic for you, you can always consider using another framework. But you'll find there is always something *not* to like about a framework. Eelco On 11/22/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you're missing a very important use-case. I created a Wicket webapp at work, what happens on a weekly basis is that someone sees something he wants to discuss so he copy/pastes the URL from his browser into an email. Non-nice URLs shouldn't even be visible for people to mistakenly export. Sometimes someone just wants to give someone else a link to my webapp (not expecting it to display anything in particular) and it just so happens their browser has it open with a non-nice URL. Again, they will copy/paste that and the receiver will get an ugly URL and Page Expired. So PLAN for that then. If you want a URL to be bookmarkable implement that! What about step X of wizard Y? The checkout part of an online store? Stuff like that... did you ever try to send an email with a link like that and expect it to work? Eelco - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
For example, if you go to Amazon, add some book to your cart do checkout and copy/paste that the URL into someone else's browser it'll recover gracefully by redirecting you to some page displaying something related to cart (maybe it displays your cart as empty) or some page displaying a list of products. The point is that it handles this gracefully instead of displaying any sort of oops you screwed up page. Yes, that is planned. See Matej's RFE. Eelco - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Thank you :) So assuming bookmarkable forms are 100% solved in Wicket 2.0 I think this covers all bases. Gili Eelco Hillenius wrote: For example, if you go to Amazon, add some book to your cart do checkout and copy/paste that the URL into someone else's browser it'll recover gracefully by redirecting you to some page displaying something related to cart (maybe it displays your cart as empty) or some page displaying a list of products. The point is that it handles this gracefully instead of displaying any sort of oops you screwed up page. Yes, that is planned. See Matej's RFE. Eelco - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
On 11/21/06, Alexei Sokolov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, There is a sysdeo tomcat plugin for eclipse which can be configured with a special 'devloader' classloader. With this config you'll see changes right after you saved your java source. But it won't help with nice urls ;) That's actually a Java feature. Works out of the box with eclipse and probably other IDEs, so if you run with Jetty (see the runner in the wicket-examples project), that'll work. BUT... only for method implementations, no structural changes. There is a feature request that is in the top 10 of requested features, and that SUN is working on: http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=4910812 Eelco - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
Actually, There is a sysdeo tomcat plugin for eclipse which can be configured with a special 'devloader' classloader. With this config you'll see changes right after you saved your java source. But it won't help with nice urls ;) Alex On 11/21/06, Eelco Hillenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is one big answer: Tapestry is a managed framework, whereas Wicket is not. Tapestry owns component creation and 'state handling' (you have to declare any state as something that needs to be managed for Tapestry). I think Tapestry intercept in the class loading mechanism too, but I haven't looked deeply into it. As Wicket is just Java, we probably have to wait for the improvements in the JDK (which are coming). Eelco On 11/21/06, cowwoc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
Re: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads
well, you should ask howard lewis-ship about the first one, the 2nd one lies in the way it works - tapestry manages everything while wicket doesnt the downside is more work to make a component compared to wicket, the upside are goodies like easier URLs... and even in tapestry a real-nice URL is some work to do - not as hasrd as to implement your own URL strategy in wicket but its not for free either... regards -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von cowwoc Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. November 2006 22:59 An: wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net Betreff: [Wicket-user] Tapestry 5 instantaneous reloads Two questions about: http://howardlewisship.com/blog/2006/10/tapestry-5-screencast-2.html 1) How did they get instantaneous page reloads working? 2) How did they get their URLs to remain nice even though the underlying state is changing? and what is the implications for Wicket? I suspect you guys have seen this before. Can you please comment on why Wicket does not do something similar? Is it something to do with the amount of client-side state they use? Thanks, Gili - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys - and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Wicket-user mailing list Wicket-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wicket-user
