Re: [Wikidata-l] Items in WikiData and not in Wikipedia

[Harold Hidalgo]

Hey,

Also, there is no need for a interwiki link as long as the item will be/is
being used as a property value. For example, some persons and subjects are
not considered notable at some wikis, but creating an item on those
subjects might have a great value at Wikidata.

Cheers.


2013/8/21 Markus Krötzsch 

> On 21/08/13 14:25, Hady elsahar wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> i was wondering if there's a wikiData item that hasn't links
>> towikipedia.org    and instead for wikivoyage or
>> any other wiki
>>
>>
>> for example this triple wouldn't be available for any xx language and LL
>> label :
>>
>> > <
>> http://schema.org/about> 
>> >
>> .
>>
>> also if it's not only wikipedia what are the main sources that wikidata
>> depended on when created their Items ?
>>
>
> Maybe not what you meant, but there are some items that are needed as
> property values without having any project pages anywhere. For example
>
> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/**Q6581097
>
> Markus
>
>
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Re: [Wikidata-l] claims Datatypes inconsistency suspicion

[Byrial Jensen]

Den 21-08-2013 21:09, Hady elsahar skrev:

Hello Jeroen ,

can i get from your words that this page :
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:ListDatatypes
is not up to date ?if so how can i get all the datatypes in Wikidata ?


Pages in the virtual Special namespace are generated by MediaWiki on 
demand, and are therefore always (in principle - there can be caching in 
some cases) up to date.



string could be anything ( so time could be a string) , but there's a
defined lower level representation of common media files . so is it
wrong to represent it as string ,


Time cannot be a string, as there are several components in a time value 
(time, timezone, precision, calendar model, before and after precisions).


I see nothing wrong in storing commonsMedia values as string values. You 
will know from the property's datatype that the string is a CommonsMedia 
string.


Regards,
- Byrial


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Re: [Wikidata-l] claims Datatypes inconsistency suspicion

[Byrial Jensen]

Den 21-08-2013 21:38, Hady elsahar skrev:

Hello Byrial ,

by taking a look to low level datatypes list :
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:ListDatatypes
does representing common media files in strings considered to be an in
consistency that will be fixed in the next releases ? or just it will
stay as this forever ?


I am not a Wikidata developer, so I cannot say. But I see no problem 
needing fixing, and would therefore not expect this to be changed.



another question:

if i wanted to get all the datatypes and map them to the parallel xsd
types , how can i get an updated list with all wikiData properties and
their datatypes not the low level.


You started this thread by telling that you are looking at a Wikidata 
database dump. You can find all properties in the dump. You can probably 
also query the server to get the properties.


Regards,
- Byrial


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Re: [Wikidata-l] claims Datatypes inconsistency suspicion

[Hady elsahar]

Hello Byrial ,

by taking a look to low level datatypes list :
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:ListDatatypes
does representing common media files in strings considered to be an in
consistency that will be fixed in the next releases ? or just it will stay
as this forever ?

another question:

if i wanted to get all the datatypes and map them to the parallel xsd types
, how can i get an updated list with all wikiData properties and their
datatypes not the low level.


thanks
Regards



On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Byrial Jensen wrote:

> Den 21-08-2013 19:45, Hady elsahar skrev:
>
>> Hello All ,
>>
>> i was looking at WikiData dump , specifically this one :
>> wikidatawiki-20130818-pages-**meta-hist-incr.xml.bz2
>>
>> then i came to this statement
>>
>> the property P158 which is the seal flag image .
>> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/**Property:P158
>> and it's DataType should be  "Commons media file"  ? not "string" ?
>> i'm not sure if it's always the same way and i don't get it , or the
>> statement data is not consistent with property datatypes?
>>
>
> The values for properties of type commonsMedia are always stored as
> strings. That's why there is no row for commonsMedia in my table at
> http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/**User:Byrial/Statement_**
> statistics#Properties_after_**their_value_type
>
>
>  another Question : should i usually rely on the datatypes written in the
>> json dumps or should i build and index of wkidata properties and their
>> datatypes to avoid such situation ?
>>
>
> You need both the datatype of the property (to distinguish ordinary string
> values from commonsMedia strings) and the datatype for each stored value
> (to know if it is an ordinary value or novalue or somevalue).
>
> Regards,
> - Byrial
>
>
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>



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Re: [Wikidata-l] claims Datatypes inconsistency suspicion

[Hady elsahar]

Hello Jeroen ,

can i get from your words that this page :
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:ListDatatypes
is not up to date ?if so how can i get all the datatypes in Wikidata ?

but what i can get is list of datatypes available , these has to be the way
of representation of data (like the lower level ) not the semantic datatype
of the thing .

so it's either an item or string or common media file or time or
geolocation

string could be anything ( so time could be a string) , but there's a
defined lower level representation of common media files . so is it wrong
to represent it as string ,


thanks
Regards




On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Jeroen De Dauw wrote:

> Hey,
>
> > and it's DataType should be  "Commons media file"  ? not "string" ?
>
> The DataType is not specified in the JSON segment you pasted. It is not
> stored in entity pages. The "string" indicates the type of DataValue, which
> is a more low level concept. We have a limited set of these DataValue
> types, and a potentially much bigger set of DataTypes build on top of that.
> For instance the DataTypes "integer", "positive integer", "percentage" and
> "probability" would presumably all use the "number" DataValue.
>
> > another Question : should i usually rely on the datatypes written in the
> json dumps or should i build and index of wkidata properties and their
> datatypes to avoid such situation ?
>
> If you need the actual DataType, you will indeed need to build an index
> with the properties.
>
> Cheers
>
> --
> Jeroen De Dauw
> http://www.bn2vs.com
> Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3
> --
>
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>


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Re: [Wikidata-l] claims Datatypes inconsistency suspicion

[Jeroen De Dauw]

Hey,

> and it's DataType should be  "Commons media file"  ? not "string" ?

The DataType is not specified in the JSON segment you pasted. It is not
stored in entity pages. The "string" indicates the type of DataValue, which
is a more low level concept. We have a limited set of these DataValue
types, and a potentially much bigger set of DataTypes build on top of that.
For instance the DataTypes "integer", "positive integer", "percentage" and
"probability" would presumably all use the "number" DataValue.

> another Question : should i usually rely on the datatypes written in the
json dumps or should i build and index of wkidata properties and their
datatypes to avoid such situation ?

If you need the actual DataType, you will indeed need to build an index
with the properties.

Cheers

--
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http://www.bn2vs.com
Don't panic. Don't be evil. ~=[,,_,,]:3
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Re: [Wikidata-l] claims Datatypes inconsistency suspicion

[Byrial Jensen]

Den 21-08-2013 19:45, Hady elsahar skrev:

Hello All ,

i was looking at WikiData dump , specifically this one :
wikidatawiki-20130818-pages-meta-hist-incr.xml.bz2

then i came to this statement

the property P158 which is the seal flag image .
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P158
and it's DataType should be  "Commons media file"  ? not "string" ?
i'm not sure if it's always the same way and i don't get it , or the
statement data is not consistent with property datatypes?


The values for properties of type commonsMedia are always stored as 
strings. That's why there is no row for commonsMedia in my table at 
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Byrial/Statement_statistics#Properties_after_their_value_type



another Question : should i usually rely on the datatypes written in the
json dumps or should i build and index of wkidata properties and their
datatypes to avoid such situation ?


You need both the datatype of the property (to distinguish ordinary 
string values from commonsMedia strings) and the datatype for each 
stored value (to know if it is an ordinary value or novalue or somevalue).


Regards,
- Byrial


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[Wikidata-l] claims Datatypes inconsistency suspicion

[Hady elsahar]

Hello All ,

i was looking at WikiData dump , specifically this one :
wikidatawiki-20130818-pages-meta-hist-incr.xml.bz2

then i came to this statement


   1.  {
   2.  "m":[
   3. "value",
   4. 158,
   5. "string",
   6. "Great Seal of the United States (obverse).svg"
   7.  ],
   8.  "q":[
   9.
   10.  ],
   11.  "g":"q30$D680D948-C2C1-493F-88AC-E4E2FB3764D2",
   12.  "rank":1,
   13.  "refs":[
   14.
   15.  ]
   16.   },



the property P158 which is the seal flag image .
http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P158
and it's DataType should be  "Commons media file"  ? not "string" ?
i'm not sure if it's always the same way and i don't get it , or the
statement data is not consistent with property datatypes?

another Question : should i usually rely on the datatypes written in the
json dumps or should i build and index of wkidata properties and their
datatypes to avoid such situation ?


thanks
Regards
-
Hady El-Sahar
Research Assistant
Center of Informatics Sciences | Nile University
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Re: [Wikidata-l] Items in WikiData and not in Wikipedia

[Markus Krötzsch]

On 21/08/13 14:25, Hady elsahar wrote:

Hello All,

i was wondering if there's a wikiData item that hasn't links towikipedia.org  
  and instead for wikivoyage or any other wiki

for example this triple wouldn't be available for any xx language and LL label :

  
 .

also if it's not only wikipedia what are the main sources that wikidata
depended on when created their Items ?


Maybe not what you meant, but there are some items that are needed as 
property values without having any project pages anywhere. For example


https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6581097

Markus


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[Wikidata-l] Items in WikiData and not in Wikipedia

[Hady elsahar]

Hello All,

i was wondering if there's a wikiData item that hasn't links to
wikipedia.org and instead for wikivoyage or any other wiki

for example this triple wouldn't be available for any xx language and LL label :

 
 .

also if it's not only wikipedia what are the main sources that wikidata
depended on when created their Items ?


thanks
Regards
-
Hady El-Sahar
Research Assistant
Center of Informatics Sciences | Nile University
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Re: [Wikidata-l] question about 2 different json formats

[Denny Vrandečić]

Actually, yes. We do take votes into account (but they do not decide the
priority).


2013/8/21 Dimitris Kontokostas 

> Just saw that Daniel already submitted this at bugzilla.
> I think that voting on the bugs can speed things up, right? ;)
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52801
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52802
>
> Cheers,
> Dimitris
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Daniel Kinzler <
> daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 10.08.2013 22:42, schrieb Jiang BIAN:
>>
>>  So is there a spec about the stable external format?
>>>
>>> If you could include a version number of the format used by the data, it
>>> will be much easier to write compatible code and/or notice the changes
>>> immediately.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think there's a formal spec, though we really should have one.
>> And the version number is a good idea. Put it on bugzilla, please :)
>>
>>
>> -- daniel
>>
>>
>> __**_
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
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> Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig
> Research Group: http://aksw.org
> Homepage:http://aksw.org/DimitrisKontokostas
>
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Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Phase #3 deadline

[Jeroen De Dauw]

Hey,

> By the way, we mostly dropped the idea of phases to speak about
development goals as it doesn't really fit the current development plan,
but that's just a naming issue.

In other words, we are now in "phase 3" indefinitely. Joining MediaWikis
own example :) We should rename Wikibase.git to phase3.git, and see how
much confusion it causes.

Cheers

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Re: [Wikidata-l] Phase #3 deadline

[Denny Vrandečić]

Hi Jan,

we currently assume that we will have a first querying capability available
this fall. The implementation has progressed very well in the last few
months and weeks, including special pages to access it, API modules, etc.

Indeed querying will be available later than originally anticipated since
we had reprioritized it, and because of that we had much less people
working on this functionality (for a while, it was only one person working
on this), and other tasks were moved to higher prio, such as more data
types, better history support, allowing arbitrary access to items in the
clients, support for other sister projects, etc.

By the way, we mostly dropped the idea of phases to speak about development
goals as it doesn't really fit the current development plan, but that's
just a naming issue.

So expect some simple querying capability (give me all items with a
specific value on this property) to be deployed within the next month or
three, but don't be mad if we slip by a few weeks due to some unexpected
deployment issue.

Cheers,
Denny




2013/8/21 Jan Kučera 

> Hi there,
>
> how is the development of phase #3 (lists) going? Is it due to soon?
>
> Sub-question: I guess sorting feature in lists will be implemented in
> default as list without sorting would be a bad idea?
>
> Thx for answer.
>
> Cheers,
> Kozuch
>
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>


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Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de

Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
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Re: [Wikidata-l] question about 2 different json formats

[Dimitris Kontokostas]

Just saw that Daniel already submitted this at bugzilla.
I think that voting on the bugs can speed things up, right? ;)

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52801
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52802

Cheers,
Dimitris


On Sun, Aug 11, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Daniel Kinzler <
daniel.kinz...@wikimedia.de> wrote:

> Am 10.08.2013 22:42, schrieb Jiang BIAN:
>
>  So is there a spec about the stable external format?
>>
>> If you could include a version number of the format used by the data, it
>> will be much easier to write compatible code and/or notice the changes
>> immediately.
>>
>
> I don't think there's a formal spec, though we really should have one. And
> the version number is a good idea. Put it on bugzilla, please :)
>
>
> -- daniel
>
>
> __**_
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> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
>



-- 
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Department of Computer Science, University of Leipzig
Research Group: http://aksw.org
Homepage:http://aksw.org/DimitrisKontokostas
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[Wikidata-l] Phase #3 deadline

[Jan Kučera]

Hi there,

how is the development of phase #3 (lists) going? Is it due to soon?

Sub-question: I guess sorting feature in lists will be implemented in
default as list without sorting would be a bad idea?

Thx for answer.

Cheers,
Kozuch
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