[Wikidata-l] Conflict of Interest policy for Wikidata
I found out the other day that there's an item about myself, and I wanted to edit it, and got a weird feeling about it. So I raised the question on the project chat https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#COI_and_editing and got told that an RFC would be a good idea. So I tried one. I don't think it has caused problems yet, though - but it might be easier to discuss these things before they cause problems. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Conflict_of_Interest Input is highly appreciated. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] subclass-of vs. instance-of
ja...@j1w.xyz, 30/12/2014 22:04: Are there processes in place to manage the integrity of these structural components of Wikidata? Yes. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Database_reports/Constraint_violations Nemo ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
[Wikidata-l] subclass-of vs. instance-of
Having followed Freebase and the announcement about migrating to Wikidata, I'm trying to get up to speed on the structure of Wikidata. I read on the site that relationships such as subclass-of and instance-of are managed by everyone. Looking at automobile (Q1420) I see that it is both subclass-of and instance-of motor road vehicle, which I imagine is not correct. Are there processes in place to manage the integrity of these structural components of Wikidata? Thanks, James Weaver ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] WikiData for Research Project Idea: Structured History
Hoi, The Wikipedia article on the subject has probably most if not all relevant details.. Thanks, GerardM On 30 December 2014 at 16:39, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > The most important people, as far as Wikidata is concerned, are the > Wikidata developers. As long as they indicate that the software conforms to > the standard we are good. > > There is no problem in them having the standard and publishing what is > expected of the use of timestamps and time diffs/ > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 29 December 2014 at 18:00, Paul Houle wrote: > >> Gerard, tell me about it. >> >> It's hard to find anyone who has even seen "ISO 8601" so there is not >> general compatibility between tools that accept "ISO 8601 (date)?(times?)"; >> the xsd:datetime (defined mainly as a restriction of ISO 8601) is closer >> to an open standard, but people aren't so sure about extra digits in the >> date fields, but maybe we will need them to deal with the year 1 >> problem. >> >> IEEE 744 is a similar scandal since it hasn't been read by most >> developers, particularly systems developers, so it is unlikely that FP >> operations in your favorite language are completely conformant. >> >> Now IEEE does have the Get802 program which lets you get slightly aged >> documents for networking standards and ISO does release the occasional >> standard for free such as ISO 20222 but there is a big difference between >> those two and the other organizations like the OMG, W3C, IETF, and FIPS >> that publish standards for free and manage to somehow pay the bills. >> >> On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 6:31 AM, Gerard Meijssen < >> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hoi. >>> The fact that ISO has its standards behind a paywall is its shame. >>> However, it does not necessarily imply anything about the use of the >>> standard. >>> Thanks, >>> Gerard >>> >>> NB a paywall seriously hampers acceptance of standards >>> >>> On 29 December 2014 at 12:20, Jeff Thompson wrote: >>> The ISO standard for CIDOC CRM is behind a pay wall with a patent notice. Can it be used in an open knowledge system? On 2014-12-29 9:49, Dov Winer wrote: Hi Sam, CIDOC/CRM is the ontology of choice for Structured History as it is anchored on modelling events. An excellent project based on it is the ResearchSpace from the British Museum. See: http://www.researchspace.org/ http://www.researchspace.org/home/rsandcrm http://cidoc-crm.org/ Enjoy, Dov ___ Wikidata-l mailing listWikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >>> ___ >>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Paul Houle >> Expert on Freebase, DBpedia, Hadoop and RDF >> (607) 539 6254paul.houle on Skype ontolo...@gmail.com >> http://legalentityidentifier.info/lei/lookup >> >> ___ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> >> > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] WikiData for Research Project Idea: Structured History
Hoi, The most important people, as far as Wikidata is concerned, are the Wikidata developers. As long as they indicate that the software conforms to the standard we are good. There is no problem in them having the standard and publishing what is expected of the use of timestamps and time diffs/ Thanks, GerardM On 29 December 2014 at 18:00, Paul Houle wrote: > Gerard, tell me about it. > > It's hard to find anyone who has even seen "ISO 8601" so there is not > general compatibility between tools that accept "ISO 8601 (date)?(times?)"; > the xsd:datetime (defined mainly as a restriction of ISO 8601) is closer > to an open standard, but people aren't so sure about extra digits in the > date fields, but maybe we will need them to deal with the year 1 > problem. > > IEEE 744 is a similar scandal since it hasn't been read by most > developers, particularly systems developers, so it is unlikely that FP > operations in your favorite language are completely conformant. > > Now IEEE does have the Get802 program which lets you get slightly aged > documents for networking standards and ISO does release the occasional > standard for free such as ISO 20222 but there is a big difference between > those two and the other organizations like the OMG, W3C, IETF, and FIPS > that publish standards for free and manage to somehow pay the bills. > > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 6:31 AM, Gerard Meijssen < > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hoi. >> The fact that ISO has its standards behind a paywall is its shame. >> However, it does not necessarily imply anything about the use of the >> standard. >> Thanks, >> Gerard >> >> NB a paywall seriously hampers acceptance of standards >> >> On 29 December 2014 at 12:20, Jeff Thompson wrote: >> >>> The ISO standard for CIDOC CRM is behind a pay wall with a patent >>> notice. Can it be used in an open knowledge system? >>> >>> >>> On 2014-12-29 9:49, Dov Winer wrote: >>> >>> Hi Sam, >>> >>> CIDOC/CRM is the ontology of choice for Structured History >>> as it is anchored on modelling events. >>> >>> An excellent project based on it is the ResearchSpace from >>> the British Museum. >>> See: >>> http://www.researchspace.org/ >>> http://www.researchspace.org/home/rsandcrm >>> http://cidoc-crm.org/ >>> >>> Enjoy, >>> Dov >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Wikidata-l mailing >>> listWikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.orghttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> >> > > > -- > Paul Houle > Expert on Freebase, DBpedia, Hadoop and RDF > (607) 539 6254paul.houle on Skype ontolo...@gmail.com > http://legalentityidentifier.info/lei/lookup > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
At this step queries are planned https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Development_plan I guess placeholder articles are lower in Lydia's list, this seems only a preliminar steps. So it's not stupid to assume they will be ready. I read your blog a long time, including your posts about reasonator. I'm on this project for as long as you, I hope you know that. I just don't see your point, nor a clear answer. And I don't want to guess. 2014-12-30 15:59 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : > Hoi, > Until Wikidata provides query functionality, any arguments about it are > without much merit. Until that time WDQ provides functionality. That > functionality can be implemented in new functionality when it arrives. > > As to the question if I know Reasonator ... Read my blog ... [1] > Thanks, > GerardM > > [1] http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com > > On 30 December 2014 at 14:08, Thomas Douillard > wrote: > >> > Do you speak for the community ?? >> >> Nope, I speak for myself. Nether told anything else. >> >> > Do you really know what Reasonator is about ? >> >> I don't really appreciate the tone, I think reasonator is really cool and >> I'm probably one of the people who pushed its use the most in Wikidata. Do >> you have a useful answer to your own question ? >> >> One point is that Reasonator uses Wikidata query, who, last time I >> checked, was not planned to be integrated into Wikibase. Wikibase will have >> its own query engine. It would be a giant software architecture mess if the >> core mediawiki/wikibase depends on external query engine. >> >> >> 2014-12-30 13:48 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : >> >>> Hoi, >>> One of the requisites as mentioned on the page by Lydia is that it is >>> usable on any and all projects. Relying on local only technoloy like >>> templates do not make sense. >>> >>> Reasonator DOES provide functionality that is similar to what can be >>> achieved with templating. When a person has relatives, for instance it will >>> show. When something is in a particular location, it will show the >>> hierarchy. when there is a geo coordinate, it shows a map, >>> >>> Now citing "political reasons" begs the question since when our >>> community decides NOT to implement things that are so manifestly in line >>> what our mission. >>> >>> When you consider in build queries... That is what Reasonator offers for >>> a long long time. >>> >>> Do you really know what Reasonator is about ? Do you speak for the >>> community ?? >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 30 December 2014 at 13:30, Thomas Douillard < >>> thomas.douill...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Hi Gerard, I like Reasonator a lot, but there is several advantages to an integrated solution : * We can reuse technologies of the mediawiki ecosystem, like for example a very important one : templates, that are already used an that a lot of wikimedians knows. It can be used to build template articles. I don't know if reasonator atm had a lot of contributions. It needs a github or something account and Javascript knowledge. * community is reluctant to use not in wiki tools for such needs, it's politically hard to push Reasonator integration into Wikidata fundamental templates, I can tell. * A solution based on prebuilt queries to select the appropriate template seems not so hard to implement only with Wikibase concepts, and deeply integrated to the mediawiki ecosystem, integrate Reasonator will probably eventually not result into such result. And yes, Reasonator is usable right now. So it's cool that this feature is not implemented right now :) And reasonator can follow its own path. 2014-12-30 12:28 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : > Hoi, > You also forget that it HAS been in use on several Wikipedias in the > past. So when that was no problem why is it a problem that can not be > overcome now and for now? > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 30 December 2014 at 12:15, Gerard Meijssen < > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hoi, >> They are mostly excuses. The software has been in use for a LONG >> time. It is known for its relevance for the same long time.. So the value >> of this need is diminished by the lack of attention in the past. >> >> The point is that these excuses are very much in the way of us >> achieving our goal.. sharing in the sum of all knowledge. The knowledge >> in >> Wikidata is available knowledge to us so we do not have a valid excuse. >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> On 30 December 2014 at 11:38, Michał Łazowik wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> > Wiadomość napisana przez Gerard Meijssen < >>> gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> w dniu 30 gru 2014, o godz. 10:24: >>> > >>> > Reasonator works now. >>> >>> Yes, but the thing is that putting anything on production is not >>> just including it there. >>> The whole code need
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
Hoi, Until Wikidata provides query functionality, any arguments about it are without much merit. Until that time WDQ provides functionality. That functionality can be implemented in new functionality when it arrives. As to the question if I know Reasonator ... Read my blog ... [1] Thanks, GerardM [1] http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com On 30 December 2014 at 14:08, Thomas Douillard wrote: > > Do you speak for the community ?? > > Nope, I speak for myself. Nether told anything else. > > > Do you really know what Reasonator is about ? > > I don't really appreciate the tone, I think reasonator is really cool and > I'm probably one of the people who pushed its use the most in Wikidata. Do > you have a useful answer to your own question ? > > One point is that Reasonator uses Wikidata query, who, last time I > checked, was not planned to be integrated into Wikibase. Wikibase will have > its own query engine. It would be a giant software architecture mess if the > core mediawiki/wikibase depends on external query engine. > > > 2014-12-30 13:48 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : > >> Hoi, >> One of the requisites as mentioned on the page by Lydia is that it is >> usable on any and all projects. Relying on local only technoloy like >> templates do not make sense. >> >> Reasonator DOES provide functionality that is similar to what can be >> achieved with templating. When a person has relatives, for instance it will >> show. When something is in a particular location, it will show the >> hierarchy. when there is a geo coordinate, it shows a map, >> >> Now citing "political reasons" begs the question since when our community >> decides NOT to implement things that are so manifestly in line what our >> mission. >> >> When you consider in build queries... That is what Reasonator offers for >> a long long time. >> >> Do you really know what Reasonator is about ? Do you speak for the >> community ?? >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> On 30 December 2014 at 13:30, Thomas Douillard < >> thomas.douill...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Gerard, I like Reasonator a lot, but there is several advantages to >>> an integrated solution : >>> * We can reuse technologies of the mediawiki ecosystem, like for example >>> a very important one : templates, that are already used an that a lot of >>> wikimedians knows. It can be used to build template articles. I don't know >>> if reasonator atm had a lot of contributions. It needs a github or >>> something account and Javascript knowledge. >>> * community is reluctant to use not in wiki tools for such needs, it's >>> politically hard to push Reasonator integration into Wikidata fundamental >>> templates, I can tell. >>> * A solution based on prebuilt queries to select the appropriate >>> template seems not so hard to implement only with Wikibase concepts, and >>> deeply integrated to the mediawiki ecosystem, integrate Reasonator will >>> probably eventually not result into such result. >>> >>> And yes, Reasonator is usable right now. So it's cool that this feature >>> is not implemented right now :) And reasonator can follow its own path. >>> >>> >>> 2014-12-30 12:28 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : >>> Hoi, You also forget that it HAS been in use on several Wikipedias in the past. So when that was no problem why is it a problem that can not be overcome now and for now? Thanks, GerardM On 30 December 2014 at 12:15, Gerard Meijssen < gerard.meijs...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hoi, > They are mostly excuses. The software has been in use for a LONG time. > It is known for its relevance for the same long time.. So the value of > this > need is diminished by the lack of attention in the past. > > The point is that these excuses are very much in the way of us > achieving our goal.. sharing in the sum of all knowledge. The knowledge in > Wikidata is available knowledge to us so we do not have a valid excuse. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 30 December 2014 at 11:38, Michał Łazowik wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> > Wiadomość napisana przez Gerard Meijssen >> w dniu 30 gru 2014, o godz. 10:24: >> > >> > Reasonator works now. >> >> Yes, but the thing is that putting anything on production is not just >> including it there. >> The whole code needs to be reviewed and there are some limitations, >> especially >> with 3rd party libraries. Bootstrap is a no-go. There are code >> conventions, performance >> and compatibility issues (mediawiki has to support IE 8) and >> internationalisation. And >> tests. >> >> Maybe some of these things are already there, but still the review >> would have to be >> done. >> >> Michał >> ___ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> > >
Re: [Wikidata-l] Queries related question : relationship beetween queries
I would suggest you are thinking from the wrong perspective. Think specific, and work your way from there. On the English Wikipedia, there are tons of lists which each have their own set of rules for list items. This makes a specific query much easier, tied to the list item on Wikidata. For example, take a look at this list which uses a motley crew of references to keep redlinks from being deleted: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Flemish_painters Wikidata has well filled items for most of those redlinks, for which articles could be created using the PrepBio tool: http://tools.wmflabs.org/magnustools/prepbio.php On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Thomas Douillard < thomas.douill...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, I got an open question about Wikidata concepts, partly related to the > idea of selecting a templates wrt. a query for placeholder articles. > > One question about this idea is : what to do when several templates are > possible for an item, for example the item with no article is in the result > set of several queries associated with article stubs templates, say: > * the query "anything", that could be associated with a totally generic > templates that shows a Wikibase page like article templates that shows all > the claims about this item > * a more specific query "living organism" > * another even more specific query like "animal" > * ... > > In this example each more specific query results is obviously a subset of > each more generic one. In such cases it could be useful to choose the > template of the most specific one. > > In the same spirit of the "subclass of" property we can create (or reuse > it) for the queries. But as no property has in Wikibase itself a meaning, > this means the choice of the template would not be possible using raw > Wikibase concepts, which partly breaks the interests of the idea. > > Any thoughts about this problem ? > > Cheers, TomT0m > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
> Do you speak for the community ?? Nope, I speak for myself. Nether told anything else. > Do you really know what Reasonator is about ? I don't really appreciate the tone, I think reasonator is really cool and I'm probably one of the people who pushed its use the most in Wikidata. Do you have a useful answer to your own question ? One point is that Reasonator uses Wikidata query, who, last time I checked, was not planned to be integrated into Wikibase. Wikibase will have its own query engine. It would be a giant software architecture mess if the core mediawiki/wikibase depends on external query engine. 2014-12-30 13:48 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : > Hoi, > One of the requisites as mentioned on the page by Lydia is that it is > usable on any and all projects. Relying on local only technoloy like > templates do not make sense. > > Reasonator DOES provide functionality that is similar to what can be > achieved with templating. When a person has relatives, for instance it will > show. When something is in a particular location, it will show the > hierarchy. when there is a geo coordinate, it shows a map, > > Now citing "political reasons" begs the question since when our community > decides NOT to implement things that are so manifestly in line what our > mission. > > When you consider in build queries... That is what Reasonator offers for a > long long time. > > Do you really know what Reasonator is about ? Do you speak for the > community ?? > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 30 December 2014 at 13:30, Thomas Douillard > wrote: > >> Hi Gerard, I like Reasonator a lot, but there is several advantages to an >> integrated solution : >> * We can reuse technologies of the mediawiki ecosystem, like for example >> a very important one : templates, that are already used an that a lot of >> wikimedians knows. It can be used to build template articles. I don't know >> if reasonator atm had a lot of contributions. It needs a github or >> something account and Javascript knowledge. >> * community is reluctant to use not in wiki tools for such needs, it's >> politically hard to push Reasonator integration into Wikidata fundamental >> templates, I can tell. >> * A solution based on prebuilt queries to select the appropriate template >> seems not so hard to implement only with Wikibase concepts, and deeply >> integrated to the mediawiki ecosystem, integrate Reasonator will probably >> eventually not result into such result. >> >> And yes, Reasonator is usable right now. So it's cool that this feature >> is not implemented right now :) And reasonator can follow its own path. >> >> >> 2014-12-30 12:28 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : >> >>> Hoi, >>> You also forget that it HAS been in use on several Wikipedias in the >>> past. So when that was no problem why is it a problem that can not be >>> overcome now and for now? >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 30 December 2014 at 12:15, Gerard Meijssen >> > wrote: >>> Hoi, They are mostly excuses. The software has been in use for a LONG time. It is known for its relevance for the same long time.. So the value of this need is diminished by the lack of attention in the past. The point is that these excuses are very much in the way of us achieving our goal.. sharing in the sum of all knowledge. The knowledge in Wikidata is available knowledge to us so we do not have a valid excuse. Thanks, GerardM On 30 December 2014 at 11:38, Michał Łazowik wrote: > Hi, > > > Wiadomość napisana przez Gerard Meijssen > w dniu 30 gru 2014, o godz. 10:24: > > > > Reasonator works now. > > Yes, but the thing is that putting anything on production is not just > including it there. > The whole code needs to be reviewed and there are some limitations, > especially > with 3rd party libraries. Bootstrap is a no-go. There are code > conventions, performance > and compatibility issues (mediawiki has to support IE 8) and > internationalisation. And > tests. > > Maybe some of these things are already there, but still the review > would have to be > done. > > Michał > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > >>> >>> ___ >>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> >> > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > ___ Wikidata-l mai
[Wikidata-l] Queries related question : relationship beetween queries
Hi, I got an open question about Wikidata concepts, partly related to the idea of selecting a templates wrt. a query for placeholder articles. One question about this idea is : what to do when several templates are possible for an item, for example the item with no article is in the result set of several queries associated with article stubs templates, say: * the query "anything", that could be associated with a totally generic templates that shows a Wikibase page like article templates that shows all the claims about this item * a more specific query "living organism" * another even more specific query like "animal" * ... In this example each more specific query results is obviously a subset of each more generic one. In such cases it could be useful to choose the template of the most specific one. In the same spirit of the "subclass of" property we can create (or reuse it) for the queries. But as no property has in Wikibase itself a meaning, this means the choice of the template would not be possible using raw Wikibase concepts, which partly breaks the interests of the idea. Any thoughts about this problem ? Cheers, TomT0m ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
Hoi, One of the requisites as mentioned on the page by Lydia is that it is usable on any and all projects. Relying on local only technoloy like templates do not make sense. Reasonator DOES provide functionality that is similar to what can be achieved with templating. When a person has relatives, for instance it will show. When something is in a particular location, it will show the hierarchy. when there is a geo coordinate, it shows a map, Now citing "political reasons" begs the question since when our community decides NOT to implement things that are so manifestly in line what our mission. When you consider in build queries... That is what Reasonator offers for a long long time. Do you really know what Reasonator is about ? Do you speak for the community ?? Thanks, GerardM On 30 December 2014 at 13:30, Thomas Douillard wrote: > Hi Gerard, I like Reasonator a lot, but there is several advantages to an > integrated solution : > * We can reuse technologies of the mediawiki ecosystem, like for example a > very important one : templates, that are already used an that a lot of > wikimedians knows. It can be used to build template articles. I don't know > if reasonator atm had a lot of contributions. It needs a github or > something account and Javascript knowledge. > * community is reluctant to use not in wiki tools for such needs, it's > politically hard to push Reasonator integration into Wikidata fundamental > templates, I can tell. > * A solution based on prebuilt queries to select the appropriate template > seems not so hard to implement only with Wikibase concepts, and deeply > integrated to the mediawiki ecosystem, integrate Reasonator will probably > eventually not result into such result. > > And yes, Reasonator is usable right now. So it's cool that this feature is > not implemented right now :) And reasonator can follow its own path. > > > 2014-12-30 12:28 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : > >> Hoi, >> You also forget that it HAS been in use on several Wikipedias in the >> past. So when that was no problem why is it a problem that can not be >> overcome now and for now? >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> On 30 December 2014 at 12:15, Gerard Meijssen >> wrote: >> >>> Hoi, >>> They are mostly excuses. The software has been in use for a LONG time. >>> It is known for its relevance for the same long time.. So the value of this >>> need is diminished by the lack of attention in the past. >>> >>> The point is that these excuses are very much in the way of us achieving >>> our goal.. sharing in the sum of all knowledge. The knowledge in Wikidata >>> is available knowledge to us so we do not have a valid excuse. >>> Thanks, >>> GerardM >>> >>> On 30 December 2014 at 11:38, Michał Łazowik wrote: >>> Hi, > Wiadomość napisana przez Gerard Meijssen w dniu 30 gru 2014, o godz. 10:24: > > Reasonator works now. Yes, but the thing is that putting anything on production is not just including it there. The whole code needs to be reviewed and there are some limitations, especially with 3rd party libraries. Bootstrap is a no-go. There are code conventions, performance and compatibility issues (mediawiki has to support IE 8) and internationalisation. And tests. Maybe some of these things are already there, but still the review would have to be done. Michał ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> >> > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
Hi Gerard, I like Reasonator a lot, but there is several advantages to an integrated solution : * We can reuse technologies of the mediawiki ecosystem, like for example a very important one : templates, that are already used an that a lot of wikimedians knows. It can be used to build template articles. I don't know if reasonator atm had a lot of contributions. It needs a github or something account and Javascript knowledge. * community is reluctant to use not in wiki tools for such needs, it's politically hard to push Reasonator integration into Wikidata fundamental templates, I can tell. * A solution based on prebuilt queries to select the appropriate template seems not so hard to implement only with Wikibase concepts, and deeply integrated to the mediawiki ecosystem, integrate Reasonator will probably eventually not result into such result. And yes, Reasonator is usable right now. So it's cool that this feature is not implemented right now :) And reasonator can follow its own path. 2014-12-30 12:28 GMT+01:00 Gerard Meijssen : > Hoi, > You also forget that it HAS been in use on several Wikipedias in the past. > So when that was no problem why is it a problem that can not be overcome > now and for now? > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 30 December 2014 at 12:15, Gerard Meijssen > wrote: > >> Hoi, >> They are mostly excuses. The software has been in use for a LONG time. It >> is known for its relevance for the same long time.. So the value of this >> need is diminished by the lack of attention in the past. >> >> The point is that these excuses are very much in the way of us achieving >> our goal.. sharing in the sum of all knowledge. The knowledge in Wikidata >> is available knowledge to us so we do not have a valid excuse. >> Thanks, >> GerardM >> >> On 30 December 2014 at 11:38, Michał Łazowik wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> > Wiadomość napisana przez Gerard Meijssen >>> w dniu 30 gru 2014, o godz. 10:24: >>> > >>> > Reasonator works now. >>> >>> Yes, but the thing is that putting anything on production is not just >>> including it there. >>> The whole code needs to be reviewed and there are some limitations, >>> especially >>> with 3rd party libraries. Bootstrap is a no-go. There are code >>> conventions, performance >>> and compatibility issues (mediawiki has to support IE 8) and >>> internationalisation. And >>> tests. >>> >>> Maybe some of these things are already there, but still the review would >>> have to be >>> done. >>> >>> Michał >>> ___ >>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >> >> > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
Hoi, You also forget that it HAS been in use on several Wikipedias in the past. So when that was no problem why is it a problem that can not be overcome now and for now? Thanks, GerardM On 30 December 2014 at 12:15, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > They are mostly excuses. The software has been in use for a LONG time. It > is known for its relevance for the same long time.. So the value of this > need is diminished by the lack of attention in the past. > > The point is that these excuses are very much in the way of us achieving > our goal.. sharing in the sum of all knowledge. The knowledge in Wikidata > is available knowledge to us so we do not have a valid excuse. > Thanks, > GerardM > > On 30 December 2014 at 11:38, Michał Łazowik wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> > Wiadomość napisana przez Gerard Meijssen w >> dniu 30 gru 2014, o godz. 10:24: >> > >> > Reasonator works now. >> >> Yes, but the thing is that putting anything on production is not just >> including it there. >> The whole code needs to be reviewed and there are some limitations, >> especially >> with 3rd party libraries. Bootstrap is a no-go. There are code >> conventions, performance >> and compatibility issues (mediawiki has to support IE 8) and >> internationalisation. And >> tests. >> >> Maybe some of these things are already there, but still the review would >> have to be >> done. >> >> Michał >> ___ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> > > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
Hoi, They are mostly excuses. The software has been in use for a LONG time. It is known for its relevance for the same long time.. So the value of this need is diminished by the lack of attention in the past. The point is that these excuses are very much in the way of us achieving our goal.. sharing in the sum of all knowledge. The knowledge in Wikidata is available knowledge to us so we do not have a valid excuse. Thanks, GerardM On 30 December 2014 at 11:38, Michał Łazowik wrote: > Hi, > > > Wiadomość napisana przez Gerard Meijssen w > dniu 30 gru 2014, o godz. 10:24: > > > > Reasonator works now. > > Yes, but the thing is that putting anything on production is not just > including it there. > The whole code needs to be reviewed and there are some limitations, > especially > with 3rd party libraries. Bootstrap is a no-go. There are code > conventions, performance > and compatibility issues (mediawiki has to support IE 8) and > internationalisation. And > tests. > > Maybe some of these things are already there, but still the review would > have to be > done. > > Michał > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
Hi, > Wiadomość napisana przez Gerard Meijssen w dniu > 30 gru 2014, o godz. 10:24: > > Reasonator works now. Yes, but the thing is that putting anything on production is not just including it there. The whole code needs to be reviewed and there are some limitations, especially with 3rd party libraries. Bootstrap is a no-go. There are code conventions, performance and compatibility issues (mediawiki has to support IE 8) and internationalisation. And tests. Maybe some of these things are already there, but still the review would have to be done. Michał ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
Hoi, Our aim is to "share in the sum of all knowledge". While building on top of what Reasonator offers makes sense, Reasonator works now. So yes, do have a look at what it is missing and what could be improved but do not let that notion prevent us from sharing in the sum of all knowledge that is already available to us. Reasonator works now and anything else will take a LONG time before it can be used. Thanks, GerardM On 30 December 2014 at 10:16, Lydia Pintscher wrote: > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Gerard Meijssen > wrote: > > Hoi, > > With all due respect. We have something that works already in > Reasonator. It > > covers most if not all requirements that we can possibly think of. We > have > > gained a lot of experience in that way.. Why not implement it and > improve on > > it conform any potential additional requirements ? > > Reasonator is awesome and obviously one of the things to look at. But > I'd like us to be open about if this is what we want and then build on > top of. Maybe people want something completely different - maybe not. > In either case it'll be more work than just taking what is there and > putting it in production ;-) > > > Cheers > Lydia > > -- > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher > Product Manager for Wikidata > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. > Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 > 10963 Berlin > www.wikimedia.de > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: > Hoi, > With all due respect. We have something that works already in Reasonator. It > covers most if not all requirements that we can possibly think of. We have > gained a lot of experience in that way.. Why not implement it and improve on > it conform any potential additional requirements ? Reasonator is awesome and obviously one of the things to look at. But I'd like us to be open about if this is what we want and then build on top of. Maybe people want something completely different - maybe not. In either case it'll be more work than just taking what is there and putting it in production ;-) Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 11:39 PM, Daniel Kinzler wrote: > The problem is that we don't really know what topic the user is looking for, > we > just know a term (the search string or page title). The easiest thin to do > would > be to show an automatic disambiguation page, listing items that have a > matching > label or alias. That page would show the description for each such item, and a > link to the corresponding page on the local wiki, if there is one. Yeah we need some kind of disambiguation. But even then we want to show the user more about each of those topics. We're talking mostly about small wikis that have no article coverage for a lot of topics. I'll add the disambiguation point to the wiki page. Let's keep discussion there if possible. > This sidesteps the question of how we might show a "summary" of some sort of a > specific data item. If we want that, picking the appropriate infobox template > would be nice, but I'm not sure how that could be done. Well there could be a very generic infobox template for example. On a small Wikipedia that would already be a win. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Product Manager for Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
Re: [Wikidata-l] input for article placeholder
Hoi, With all due respect. We have something that works already in Reasonator. It covers most if not all requirements that we can possibly think of. We have gained a lot of experience in that way.. Why not implement it and improve on it conform any potential additional requirements ? Thanks, GerardM On 29 December 2014 at 19:11, Lydia Pintscher wrote: > Hey folks :) > > People have been bugging me for a while now about this so I started a > page to gather input. > > If you are searching for a topic on a Wikipedia for example but it > doesn't have an article about it then we can look at Wikidata and see > if there is a matching item for that topic. If we have data about it > on Wikidata then we can show some kind of placeholder. But how should > this look like and work? I'd love your input at > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Article_placeholder_input > Please keep in mind the important points at the beginning of that > page. > > Also: If someone comes up with a better name for this that'd be awesome. > > <3 > > > Cheers > Lydia > > -- > Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher > Product Manager for Wikidata > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. > Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 > 10963 Berlin > www.wikimedia.de > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg > unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das > Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. > > ___ > Wikidata-l mailing list > Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > ___ Wikidata-l mailing list Wikidata-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l
