Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
(Sorry, I posted this in the wrong thread a few minutes ago.) On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Yusuke Matsubara whym at whym.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l wrote: ** On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Amir E. Aharoni *** amir.aharoni at mail.huji.ac.il https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l wrote: ** I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for ** it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't ** look well enough. ** A bit different, but there is an extension that enables ** supplementing additional non-modifiable edit summaries: ** https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RevisionCommentSupplement https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RevisionCommentSupplement ** It was contributed (without a Bugzilla request) by Burthsceh, a ** volunteer at Japanese Wikipedia, prompted by the necessity to fix ** attributions made in edit summaries (for reused texts). [1] I don't ** think it has been extensively reviewed, though. ** With that approach, you could effectively modify an edit summary by ** appending a modified one and rev-deleting the original one. ** [1] https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%95%E6%88%B8%E7%AB%AF/subj/%E5%B1%A5%E6%AD%B4%E3%83%9A%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%81%AE%E5%80%8B%E3%80%85%E3%81%AE%E7%89%88%E3%81%AB%E5%AF%BE%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E8%BF%BD%E5%8A%A0%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88%E3%82%92%E8%A1%A8%E7%A4%BA%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E6%96%B9%E6%B3%95%E3%81%AE%E5%B0%8E%E5%85%A5%E3%81%AE%E6%8F%90%E6%A1%88 https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%95%E6%88%B8%E7%AB%AF/subj/%E5%B1%A5%E6%AD%B4%E3%83%9A%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%81%AE%E5%80%8B%E3%80%85%E3%81%AE%E7%89%88%E3%81%AB%E5%AF%BE%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E8%BF%BD%E5%8A%A0%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88%E3%82%92%E8%A1%A8%E7%A4%BA%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E6%96%B9%E6%B3%95%E3%81%AE%E5%B0%8E%E5%85%A5%E3%81%AE%E6%8F%90%E6%A1%88 * On Wed Nov 12 01:05:26 UTC 2014 I asked this list if the technical team could help the patrollers of recent changes to Wikipedia's medical articles “...tag the log entry of revisions ... as having been reviewed for policy/guideline compliance by a trusted editor.” [1] I am quite technically illiterate and may have misunderstood, but judging by Yusuke Matsubara's description, the extension he mentions above seems like it might fit our needs. Will it enable patrollers to add a comment to the edit summary? Does anyone know if it works on en.Wikipedia? 1.https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-November/079418.html Anthony Cole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Anthonyhcole ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
- I think this ML top-posts. Not sure. - Suspect that the Flow extension would allow for more flexibility, including attaching multiple discussion threads to a specific edit or paragraph. -- svetlana On Sun, 23 Nov 2014, at 19:25, Anthony Cole wrote: (Sorry, I posted this in the wrong thread a few minutes ago.) On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Yusuke Matsubara whym at whym.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l wrote: ** On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Amir E. Aharoni *** amir.aharoni at mail.huji.ac.il https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l wrote: ** I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for ** it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't ** look well enough. ** A bit different, but there is an extension that enables ** supplementing additional non-modifiable edit summaries: ** https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RevisionCommentSupplement https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RevisionCommentSupplement ** It was contributed (without a Bugzilla request) by Burthsceh, a ** volunteer at Japanese Wikipedia, prompted by the necessity to fix ** attributions made in edit summaries (for reused texts). [1] I don't ** think it has been extensively reviewed, though. ** With that approach, you could effectively modify an edit summary by ** appending a modified one and rev-deleting the original one. ** [1] https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%95%E6%88%B8%E7%AB%AF/subj/%E5%B1%A5%E6%AD%B4%E3%83%9A%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%81%AE%E5%80%8B%E3%80%85%E3%81%AE%E7%89%88%E3%81%AB%E5%AF%BE%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E8%BF%BD%E5%8A%A0%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88%E3%82%92%E8%A1%A8%E7%A4%BA%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E6%96%B9%E6%B3%95%E3%81%AE%E5%B0%8E%E5%85%A5%E3%81%AE%E6%8F%90%E6%A1%88 https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%95%E6%88%B8%E7%AB%AF/subj/%E5%B1%A5%E6%AD%B4%E3%83%9A%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%81%AE%E5%80%8B%E3%80%85%E3%81%AE%E7%89%88%E3%81%AB%E5%AF%BE%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E8%BF%BD%E5%8A%A0%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88%E3%82%92%E8%A1%A8%E7%A4%BA%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E6%96%B9%E6%B3%95%E3%81%AE%E5%B0%8E%E5%85%A5%E3%81%AE%E6%8F%90%E6%A1%88 * On Wed Nov 12 01:05:26 UTC 2014 I asked this list if the technical team could help the patrollers of recent changes to Wikipedia's medical articles “...tag the log entry of revisions ... as having been reviewed for policy/guideline compliance by a trusted editor.” [1] I am quite technically illiterate and may have misunderstood, but judging by Yusuke Matsubara's description, the extension he mentions above seems like it might fit our needs. Will it enable patrollers to add a comment to the edit summary? Does anyone know if it works on en.Wikipedia? 1.https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-November/079418.html Anthony Cole http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Anthonyhcole ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 12:40 AM, John Mark Vandenberg jay...@gmail.com wrote: ... This is a very good idea, in itself, to help fix problems with attribution, especially wrt 'print' editions (PDF export). It might also be used to avoid undesirable attribution notices in the article body, where the text is a copy of a GFDL/CC external webpage, to be used for once-off imports (e.g. bio page on personal website), rather than large scale import/reuse like FOLDOC/EB1911/etc. See also: * Customizable summary of page editors/authors: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27629 * Collection extension needs some way to credit original authors of a work: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=28064 Helder ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. So is there any reason not to do it? -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Its the same reason you cannot go back and modify changes to a revision. Subsequent changes create new revisions, because edit summaries are not versioned its not possible to change them and maintain the chain On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 7:15 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. So is there any reason not to do it? -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
I disagree. There is no chain made of summaries. They are just a text in a table that can be altered. It's just that there is no feature which would allow that. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:27 PM, John phoenixoverr...@gmail.com wrote: Its the same reason you cannot go back and modify changes to a revision. Subsequent changes create new revisions, because edit summaries are not versioned its not possible to change them and maintain the chain On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 7:15 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. So is there any reason not to do it? -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
The lack of historical changes in an edit summary is a critical issue if we are going to enable modification of them. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 7:30 AM, Petr Bena benap...@gmail.com wrote: I disagree. There is no chain made of summaries. They are just a text in a table that can be altered. It's just that there is no feature which would allow that. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:27 PM, John phoenixoverr...@gmail.com wrote: Its the same reason you cannot go back and modify changes to a revision. Subsequent changes create new revisions, because edit summaries are not versioned its not possible to change them and maintain the chain On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 7:15 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. So is there any reason not to do it? -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On 13 November 2014 13:40, John phoenixoverr...@gmail.com wrote: The lack of historical changes in an edit summary is a critical issue if we are going to enable modification of them. Just to be very clear, there is no way we'd allow history-less editing of edit summaries in MediaWiki; it's fundamentally against the ethos of the software. This conversation is getting seriously ahead of itself. J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, Editing Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. A bit different, but there is an extension that enables supplementing additional non-modifiable edit summaries: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RevisionCommentSupplement It was contributed (without a Bugzilla request) by Burthsceh, a volunteer at Japanese Wikipedia, prompted by the necessity to fix attributions made in edit summaries (for reused texts). [1] I don't think it has been extensively reviewed, though. With that approach, you could effectively modify an edit summary by appending a modified one and rev-deleting the original one. [1] https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%95%E6%88%B8%E7%AB%AF/subj/%E5%B1%A5%E6%AD%B4%E3%83%9A%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%81%AE%E5%80%8B%E3%80%85%E3%81%AE%E7%89%88%E3%81%AB%E5%AF%BE%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E8%BF%BD%E5%8A%A0%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88%E3%82%92%E8%A1%A8%E7%A4%BA%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E6%96%B9%E6%B3%95%E3%81%AE%E5%B0%8E%E5%85%A5%E3%81%AE%E6%8F%90%E6%A1%88 Best, Yusuke On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. So is there any reason not to do it? -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Le 13/11/2014 13:15, Amir E. Aharoni a écrit : In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. So is there any reason not to do it? I am not sure there is any point in adding a summary history for each revision. That sounds like a useless overhead for a corner case usage. -- Antoine hashar Musso ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
2014-11-13 17:16 GMT+02:00 Antoine Musso hashar+...@free.fr: Le 13/11/2014 13:15, Amir E. Aharoni a écrit : In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. So is there any reason not to do it? I am not sure there is any point in adding a summary history for each revision. That sounds like a useless overhead for a corner case usage. Indeed - I am somewhat surprised by James's firm opposition. Is it about tracking and preventing vandalism, or is it something deeper? Vandalism would be a big deal if everybody could edit everybody's summaries, but if a user can only edit one's own summaries, this shouldn't be a problem. (And maybe sysops could edit everybody's summaries.) This little change in the ethos doesn't seem like a serious price to pay for giving a good-faith user an opportunity to fix a spelling error that she noticed a moment after pushing Save. Don't Wikipedians love fixing spelling errors, especially their own? :) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Typos in edit summary are fixed by releasing an errata corrige in a subsequent dummy edit. Nemo ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Indeed - I am somewhat surprised by James's firm opposition. I tend to agree with James on this one in that if the edit summaries are to be modified then they need a revision history. Typos in edit summary are fixed by releasing an errata corrige in a subsequent dummy edit. I question whether or not the ability to change edit summaries is really a needed feature though. I would prefer the approach that Nemo recommend of making a dummy edit. For me it's less about vandalism et al. and more about the principle of revision tracking and audit trails. When you make an edit that revision is fixed and should not be able to be modified. This is one of the core principles that makes wikis work. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. I found these: WONTFIX: Allow editing of edit summaries after the fact https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10105 NEW: Correcting edit summaries (if own, last, recent) https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13937 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. Now we have links to the bugs above: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=633672398 Best regards, Helder ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: Indeed - I am somewhat surprised by James's firm opposition. I tend to agree with James on this one in that if the edit summaries are to be modified then they need a revision history. Typos in edit summary are fixed by releasing an errata corrige in a subsequent dummy edit. I question whether or not the ability to change edit summaries is really a needed feature though. I would prefer the approach that Nemo recommend of making a dummy edit. This would work a little better if we had the feature requested on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33943 (Grouping edit history). But I don't see a reason against https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13937 (Correcting edit summaries (if own, last, recent)) Helder ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
As a longtime administrator of a MediaWiki site, I do not endorse this in any way. There is absolutely no legitimate need to change edit summaries, and the potential for this to be used for vandalism and trolling is extensive. This is why users are encouraged to preview their edits, and I see no reason to make provisions for people who refuse to do so. Justin Folvarcik On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Helder . helder.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: Indeed - I am somewhat surprised by James's firm opposition. I tend to agree with James on this one in that if the edit summaries are to be modified then they need a revision history. Typos in edit summary are fixed by releasing an errata corrige in a subsequent dummy edit. I question whether or not the ability to change edit summaries is really a needed feature though. I would prefer the approach that Nemo recommend of making a dummy edit. This would work a little better if we had the feature requested on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33943 (Grouping edit history). But I don't see a reason against https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13937 (Correcting edit summaries (if own, last, recent)) Helder ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Nov 13, 2014 11:43 AM, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: Indeed - I am somewhat surprised by James's firm opposition. I tend to agree with James on this one in that if the edit summaries are to be modified then they need a revision history. Typos in edit summary are fixed by releasing an errata corrige in a subsequent dummy edit. I question whether or not the ability to change edit summaries is really a needed feature though. I would prefer the approach that Nemo recommend of making a dummy edit. For me it's less about vandalism et al. and more about the principle of revision tracking and audit trails. When you make an edit that revision is fixed and should not be able to be modified. This is one of the core principles that makes wikis work. Thank you, Derric Atzrott +1. An edit summary represents something at a specific point in time. Its important to know the context of an edit at that time. Editing edit summaries allows someone to revise the context. For comparision, how many revision control systems allow editing commit messages. --bawolff ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Derric Atzrott schreef op 2014/11/13 8:42: Indeed - I am somewhat surprised by James's firm opposition. I tend to agree with James on this one in that if the edit summaries are to be modified then they need a revision history. I don't know if they need an edit history per se. A log of changes would be sufficient. KWW ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Thu Nov 13 2014 at 8:27:08 AM Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote: On Nov 13, 2014 11:43 AM, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: Indeed - I am somewhat surprised by James's firm opposition. I tend to agree with James on this one in that if the edit summaries are to be modified then they need a revision history. Typos in edit summary are fixed by releasing an errata corrige in a subsequent dummy edit. I question whether or not the ability to change edit summaries is really a needed feature though. I would prefer the approach that Nemo recommend of making a dummy edit. For me it's less about vandalism et al. and more about the principle of revision tracking and audit trails. When you make an edit that revision is fixed and should not be able to be modified. This is one of the core principles that makes wikis work. Thank you, Derric Atzrott +1. An edit summary represents something at a specific point in time. Its important to know the context of an edit at that time. Editing edit summaries allows someone to revise the context. For comparision, how many revision control systems allow editing commit messages. Git does. Of course it comes with all kinds of warning messages about how if you're working with others this is a terrible thing to do :) -Chad ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
bawolff wrote: For comparision, how many revision control systems allow editing commit messages. Perforce does. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
I can see it being useful in two circumstances: 1) As part of the oversight right, in order to edit an edit summary without hiding the entire revision 2) A right of a user to edit their own edit summaries, if the edit summary is blank Since it's possible and at least some people are interested in it, I don't see the downside of making it available in MediaWiki even if most Wikimedia projects might not use it. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On 13 November 2014 16:03, Helder . helder.w...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: Indeed - I am somewhat surprised by James's firm opposition. I tend to agree with James on this one in that if the edit summaries are to be modified then they need a revision history. Indeed; that's the core tenet of how MediaWiki is designed. All changes are open. All changes are logged. Al(most al)l logs are visible. Changes can't be redacted, except by super-power-users (sysops) who understand what they're doing. Changes can't be removed from the records, except by super-ultra-mega-power users (developers) who have database access and have a really good reason. Typos in edit summary are fixed by releasing an errata corrige in a subsequent dummy edit. I question whether or not the ability to change edit summaries is really a needed feature though. I would prefer the approach that Nemo recommend of making a dummy edit. This would work a little better if we had the feature requested on https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=33943 (Grouping edit history). But I don't see a reason against https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13937 (Correcting edit summaries (if own, last, recent)) Thanks for those links. However, for a change like this, I would expect (at a minimum) a MediaWiki.org RfC. A bug isn't sufficient discussion, really. J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, Editing Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Nov 13, 2014 12:45 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I can see it being useful in two circumstances: 1) As part of the oversight right, in order to edit an edit summary without hiding the entire revision 2) A right of a user to edit their own edit summaries, if the edit summary is blank Since it's possible and at least some people are interested in it, I don't see the downside of making it available in MediaWiki even if most Wikimedia projects might not use it. That sounds more like a good argument for making it an extension, rather than a core feature. --bawolff ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
I think this is a great idea and has always baffled me that you can't. I'm also a little confused by James comment. Maintaining an edit history of edit summaries seems overkill. As I understand it edit summaries are for aiding other editors. If we are worried about losing important information, maybe only the original editor and trusted editors with certain privileges should be able to edit them. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote: On Nov 13, 2014 12:45 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I can see it being useful in two circumstances: 1) As part of the oversight right, in order to edit an edit summary without hiding the entire revision 2) A right of a user to edit their own edit summaries, if the edit summary is blank Since it's possible and at least some people are interested in it, I don't see the downside of making it available in MediaWiki even if most Wikimedia projects might not use it. That sounds more like a good argument for making it an extension, rather than a core feature. --bawolff ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Jon Robson schreef op 2014/11/13 10:59: I think this is a great idea and has always baffled me that you can't. I'm also a little confused by James comment. Maintaining an edit history of edit summaries seems overkill. As I understand it edit summaries are for aiding other editors. If we are worried about losing important information, maybe only the original editor and trusted editors with certain privileges should be able to edit them. As rarely as I side with James, I would be up in arms if people tried to introduce the ability to edit edit summaries without even a log. Using an edit summary laced with obscenities and invectives is an unfortunately common form of attack. To make it possible to do so, leave it up until your victim sees it, and then erase all traces of the attack would be an administrative nightmare. KWW ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Issues arise in the fact that malicious editors can abuse it after the initial review has been done. Or you can run into cases where offensive material is added attacking another editor, so editor B reports the issue and before anyone has a chance to review it editor A changes it back to something innocent. (rinse repeat for a while before A finally gets blocked, but meanwhile B is taking the brunt of abuse until an admin catches on) and there is no way of proving what an edit was at any given time. The biggest thing that you need to realize is that regardless of the intent of something, it will be abused, how and to what degree can be controlled. Given that just about everything in mediawiki has a paper trail, (mediawiki keeps logs for all actions, some are just not visible without specific rights) introducing a feature that doesnt is not a good idea. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Jon Robson jdlrob...@gmail.com wrote: I think this is a great idea and has always baffled me that you can't. I'm also a little confused by James comment. Maintaining an edit history of edit summaries seems overkill. As I understand it edit summaries are for aiding other editors. If we are worried about losing important information, maybe only the original editor and trusted editors with certain privileges should be able to edit them. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote: On Nov 13, 2014 12:45 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I can see it being useful in two circumstances: 1) As part of the oversight right, in order to edit an edit summary without hiding the entire revision 2) A right of a user to edit their own edit summaries, if the edit summary is blank Since it's possible and at least some people are interested in it, I don't see the downside of making it available in MediaWiki even if most Wikimedia projects might not use it. That sounds more like a good argument for making it an extension, rather than a core feature. --bawolff ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Jon Robson * http://jonrobson.me.uk * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson * @rakugojon ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Nov 13, 2014 7:09 PM, John phoenixoverr...@gmail.com wrote: Issues arise in the fact that malicious editors can abuse it after the initial review has been done. Or you can run into cases where offensive material is added attacking another editor, so editor B reports the issue and before anyone has a chance to review it editor A changes it back to something innocent. (rinse repeat for a while before A finally gets blocked, but meanwhile B is taking the brunt of abuse until an admin catches on) and there is no way of proving what an edit was at any given time. The biggest thing that you need to realize is that regardless of the intent of something, it will be abused, how and to what degree can be controlled. Given that just about everything in mediawiki has a paper trail, (mediawiki keeps logs for all actions, some are just not visible without specific rights) introducing a feature that doesnt is not a good idea. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Jon Robson jdlrob...@gmail.com wrote: I think this is a great idea and has always baffled me that you can't. I'm also a little confused by James comment. Maintaining an edit history of edit summaries seems overkill. As I understand it edit summaries are for aiding other editors. If we are worried about losing important information, maybe only the original editor and trusted editors with certain privileges should be able to edit them. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:07 AM, Brian Wolff bawo...@gmail.com wrote: On Nov 13, 2014 12:45 PM, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: I can see it being useful in two circumstances: 1) As part of the oversight right, in order to edit an edit summary without hiding the entire revision 2) A right of a user to edit their own edit summaries, if the edit summary is blank Since it's possible and at least some people are interested in it, I don't see the downside of making it available in MediaWiki even if most Wikimedia projects might not use it. That sounds more like a good argument for making it an extension, rather than a core feature. --bawolff Wow, that escalated quickly. How did we go from hey, what's the deal with this? To YOURE BURNING THE WIKI in a few posts? ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:09 PM, John phoenixoverr...@gmail.com wrote: Issues arise in the fact that malicious editors can abuse it after the initial review has been done. Or you can run into cases where offensive material is added attacking another editor, so editor B reports the issue and before anyone has a chance to review it editor A changes it back to something innocent. (rinse repeat for a while before A finally gets blocked, but meanwhile B is taking the brunt of abuse until an admin catches on) and there is no way of proving what an edit was at any given time. The biggest thing that you need to realize is that regardless of the intent of something, it will be abused, how and to what degree can be controlled. Given that just about everything in mediawiki has a paper trail, (mediawiki keeps logs for all actions, some are just not visible without specific rights) introducing a feature that doesnt is not a good idea. I don't think anyone is unaware of the potential for abuse, but that is not a strong argument against allowing any form of editing edit summaries. A simple limit would take care of most forms of abuse - either limit it to trusted users (e.g. oversight), or permit it only on blank edit summaries and only by the original user. You can even restrict it to a single change, and then the use case would be: Oops, I forgot to include an edit summary, rather than adding a new revision or leaving it blank I'll just go add it now. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Thu Nov 13 2014 at 4:16:21 AM Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. So is there any reason not to do it? If I could edit my edit summaries then I'd have even less excuse for omitting edit summaries :( -Chad ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On 13 November 2014 18:18, Nathan nawr...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 1:09 PM, John phoenixoverr...@gmail.com wrote: Issues arise in the fact that malicious editors can abuse it after the initial review has been done. Or you can run into cases where offensive material is added attacking another editor, so editor B reports the issue and before anyone has a chance to review it editor A changes it back to something innocent. (rinse repeat for a while before A finally gets blocked, but meanwhile B is taking the brunt of abuse until an admin catches on) and there is no way of proving what an edit was at any given time. The biggest thing that you need to realize is that regardless of the intent of something, it will be abused, how and to what degree can be controlled. Given that just about everything in mediawiki has a paper trail, (mediawiki keeps logs for all actions, some are just not visible without specific rights) introducing a feature that doesnt is not a good idea. I don't think anyone is unaware of the potential for abuse, but that is not a strong argument against allowing any form of editing edit summaries. A simple limit would take care of most forms of abuse - either limit it to trusted users (e.g. oversight), or permit it only on blank edit summaries and only by the original user. You can even restrict it to a single change, and then the use case would be: Oops, I forgot to include an edit summary, rather than adding a new revision or leaving it blank I'll just go add it now. Sure, and I think a restriction system would make sense, but **even so**, there should be at the very least a full log, and ideally a complete history. Trust but verify and all that. Also, if you have an issue with users too often failing to give an edit summary, there's a preference that nags them to fix it before saving. J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, Editing Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Martijn Hoekstra wrote: Wow, that escalated quickly. How did we go from hey, what's the deal with this? To YOURE BURNING THE WIKI in a few posts? Easy: because it's a hard question, with excellent arguments on both sides. Clearly, people are going to make typos in edit summaries from time to time, and clearly, making a null edit to correct the summary is a stupid kludge, so clearly, editing of edit summaries should be allowed. But clearly, allowing editing of edit summaries would introduce all new kinds of abuse, so clearly, I cannot choose the goblet in front of you, I mean, editing of edit summaries must remain impossible. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Am I missing something? I just tried making a null edit and it didn't change the edit summary. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2014-11-13 20:48 GMT+02:00 Steve Summit s...@eskimo.com: Martijn Hoekstra wrote: Wow, that escalated quickly. How did we go from hey, what's the deal with this? To YOURE BURNING THE WIKI in a few posts? Easy: because it's a hard question, with excellent arguments on both sides. Clearly, people are going to make typos in edit summaries from time to time, and clearly, making a null edit to correct the summary is a stupid kludge, so clearly, editing of edit summaries should be allowed. But clearly, allowing editing of edit summaries would introduce all new kinds of abuse, so clearly, I cannot choose the goblet in front of you, I mean, editing of edit summaries must remain impossible. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Am I missing something? I just tried making a null edit and it didn't change the edit summary. It doesn't change the edit summary; it was suggested you make a null edit, but leave an edit summary for that null edit. This way you can make an edit that only serves the purpose of saying Hey the previous edit had a wrong edit summary, this is what I really did. Thank you, Derric Atzrott ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On 13 November 2014 19:04, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: Am I missing something? I just tried making a null edit and it didn't change the edit summary. It doesn't change the edit summary; it was suggested you make a null edit, but leave an edit summary for that null edit. This way you can make an edit that only serves the purpose of saying Hey the previous edit had a wrong edit summary, this is what I really did. A null edit doesn't save; you probably mean an inconsequential / trivial edit, instead? J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, Editing Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Mmm... the fact that something as odd as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Dummy_edit even exists says something about the need for such a feature. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2014-11-13 21:06 GMT+02:00 James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org: On 13 November 2014 19:04, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: Am I missing something? I just tried making a null edit and it didn't change the edit summary. It doesn't change the edit summary; it was suggested you make a null edit, but leave an edit summary for that null edit. This way you can make an edit that only serves the purpose of saying Hey the previous edit had a wrong edit summary, this is what I really did. A null edit doesn't save; you probably mean an inconsequential / trivial edit, instead? J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, Editing Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
I think allowing post-facto modification of edit summaries in the very limited case where the edit was done by the current user, the edit summary is currently blank, and the new summary is non-blank could be allowed with only small amounts wiki-burning. Review tools would have to be updated so that janitors can patrol the newly-added edit summaries, since that might happen long after the actual content of the edit was patrolled. And for a full log of actions performed we'd need to record the timestamp of the summary edit in a field separate from the timestamp of the revision itself. But that's a decent amount of work (and UI) to implement what is now a very limited use case. Editing commit summaries works in git (and in gerrit) because there is a clear boundary between private work and published (merged) work. I can rebase/edit the summary up until my work is published/merged. I think the wiki would be benefited by the adoption of more of these git-inspired workflows... but that's a whole 'nuther discussion. --scott On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Mmm... the fact that something as odd as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Dummy_edit even exists says something about the need for such a feature. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2014-11-13 21:06 GMT+02:00 James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org: On 13 November 2014 19:04, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: Am I missing something? I just tried making a null edit and it didn't change the edit summary. It doesn't change the edit summary; it was suggested you make a null edit, but leave an edit summary for that null edit. This way you can make an edit that only serves the purpose of saying Hey the previous edit had a wrong edit summary, this is what I really did. A null edit doesn't save; you probably mean an inconsequential / trivial edit, instead? J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, Editing Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- (http://cscott.net) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Im not saying that it shouldnt be allowed, what I am saying is if we are going to brainstorm on the topic, these issues are the most obvious and critical problems. I saw scotts last email and think that given those limited constraints its possible without too much fuss. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 2:41 PM, C. Scott Ananian canan...@wikimedia.org wrote: I think allowing post-facto modification of edit summaries in the very limited case where the edit was done by the current user, the edit summary is currently blank, and the new summary is non-blank could be allowed with only small amounts wiki-burning. Review tools would have to be updated so that janitors can patrol the newly-added edit summaries, since that might happen long after the actual content of the edit was patrolled. And for a full log of actions performed we'd need to record the timestamp of the summary edit in a field separate from the timestamp of the revision itself. But that's a decent amount of work (and UI) to implement what is now a very limited use case. Editing commit summaries works in git (and in gerrit) because there is a clear boundary between private work and published (merged) work. I can rebase/edit the summary up until my work is published/merged. I think the wiki would be benefited by the adoption of more of these git-inspired workflows... but that's a whole 'nuther discussion. --scott On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: Mmm... the fact that something as odd as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Dummy_edit even exists says something about the need for such a feature. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore 2014-11-13 21:06 GMT+02:00 James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org: On 13 November 2014 19:04, Derric Atzrott datzr...@alizeepathology.com wrote: Am I missing something? I just tried making a null edit and it didn't change the edit summary. It doesn't change the edit summary; it was suggested you make a null edit, but leave an edit summary for that null edit. This way you can make an edit that only serves the purpose of saying Hey the previous edit had a wrong edit summary, this is what I really did. A null edit doesn't save; you probably mean an inconsequential / trivial edit, instead? J. -- James D. Forrester Product Manager, Editing Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- (http://cscott.net) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Le 13/11/2014 18:05, Brian Wolff a écrit : Id make the argument that modifying edit summaries in git is somewhat akin to taking a database dump of a mediawiki install, editing the dump, and re-importing it ;) --bawolff Changing all the ids in the process :-D -- Antoine hashar Musso ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Depends on how its done On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Antoine Musso hashar+...@free.fr wrote: Le 13/11/2014 18:05, Brian Wolff a écrit : Id make the argument that modifying edit summaries in git is somewhat akin to taking a database dump of a mediawiki install, editing the dump, and re-importing it ;) --bawolff Changing all the ids in the process :-D -- Antoine hashar Musso ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Thu, 13 Nov 2014, at 23:15, Amir E. Aharoni wrote: In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? It is a very rare case compared to, say, how the diff viewer screws up on simple edits (which defers me from contributing to reviewing pending changes - I abandoned that entirely although I have a passion for that), and how edit conflicts are merged (I usually just gave up editing in half of the cases during the first few years). If we really want to do what you're asking I would implement it as merge edits button - really useful where the edits are consecutive and I just accidentally forgot to add something. That is a more frequent use-case than just editing an edit summary. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Le 13/11/2014 16:16, Antoine Musso a écrit : Le 13/11/2014 13:15, Amir E. Aharoni a écrit : In Facebook it's possible to edit posts and comments after posting after a lot of users asked for it. Why isn't it possible to change MediaWiki edit summaries after posting? I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Edit_summary just says that they can't be changed, but doesn't link to a discussion. So is there any reason not to do it? I am not sure there is any point in adding a summary history for each revision. That sounds like a useless overhead for a corner case usage. Talking with my wife about it, she suggested that people could review the history of articles and amend the summary to better reflect the change that has been made in the past. Often people forget to fill the summary, and browsing the history leave you with little clue has to what the edit was for and thus force you to review the diff :-D So yeah, that could be seen as a way to better describe every edits. But that is a huge burden that distracts folks from actually writing content! -- Antoine hashar Musso ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
Steve Summit wrote: Martijn Hoekstra wrote: Wow, that escalated quickly. How did we go from hey, what's the deal with this? To YOURE BURNING THE WIKI in a few posts? Easy: because it's a hard question, with excellent arguments on both sides. Clearly, people are going to make typos in edit summaries from time to time, and clearly, making a null edit to correct the summary is a stupid kludge, so clearly, editing of edit summaries should be allowed. But clearly, allowing editing of edit summaries would introduce all new kinds of abuse, so clearly, I cannot choose the goblet in front of you, I mean, editing of edit summaries must remain impossible. Yep. As Helder notes in this thread, anyone interested in edit summaries issues broadly should focus on concrete (realistic) proposals that address discrete issues. https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13937 is a good example, in my opinion. And it bears repeating that yes, spam and other abuse prevention mechanisms are hard-required from the start of a project like this to be deployed to Wikimedia wikis. Edit summaries already see abuse and mis-use. MZMcBride ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] changing edit summaries
On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Yusuke Matsubara w...@whym.org wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:15 PM, Amir E. Aharoni amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il wrote: I tried looking for it in Bugzilla; I expected to find a two-digit bug for it, but I couldn't find any at all. Of course it's possible that I didn't look well enough. A bit different, but there is an extension that enables supplementing additional non-modifiable edit summaries: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RevisionCommentSupplement It was contributed (without a Bugzilla request) by Burthsceh, a volunteer at Japanese Wikipedia, prompted by the necessity to fix attributions made in edit summaries (for reused texts). [1] I don't think it has been extensively reviewed, though. With that approach, you could effectively modify an edit summary by appending a modified one and rev-deleting the original one. [1] https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E4%BA%95%E6%88%B8%E7%AB%AF/subj/%E5%B1%A5%E6%AD%B4%E3%83%9A%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B8%E3%81%AE%E5%80%8B%E3%80%85%E3%81%AE%E7%89%88%E3%81%AB%E5%AF%BE%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E8%BF%BD%E5%8A%A0%E3%81%AE%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A1%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88%E3%82%92%E8%A1%A8%E7%A4%BA%E3%81%99%E3%82%8B%E6%96%B9%E6%B3%95%E3%81%AE%E5%B0%8E%E5%85%A5%E3%81%AE%E6%8F%90%E6%A1%88 This is a very good idea, in itself, to help fix problems with attribution, especially wrt 'print' editions (PDF export). It might also be used to avoid undesirable attribution notices in the article body, where the text is a copy of a GFDL/CC external webpage, to be used for once-off imports (e.g. bio page on personal website), rather than large scale import/reuse like FOLDOC/EB1911/etc. -- John Vandenberg ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
