Re: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program
And what level of support do they include with that plan? And how much do they pay, to get someone to help it work reliably? (engineered external antennas and such). And how much do local ISP's pay, that want to share use of the WIFI network? What value can the local ISP add, that will justify the consumer to pay a higher cost, or does the partner get a discounted price and more or less a reseller (a sales agent / marketing team, that does not get taxes taken out of paycheck :-)? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program By Tara Seals Posted on: 06/29/2006 EarthLink Inc. launched a municipal Wi-Fi broadband network in Anaheim, Calif., and announced a wholesale Wi-Fi access strategy on Thursday. EarthLink has won bids in several cities to provide citywide wireless Internet access, including Philadelphia and San Francisco, but Anaheim is its first commercial launch. It’s also the first piece of a strategy to create a nationwide footprint of municipal Wi-Fi networks by tying together all EarthLink municipal markets under one service. Hand in hand with creating the footprint will be an open-access wholesale program. The ISP already has two national wholesale partners, announced today: PeoplePC Inc., EarthLink's wholly owned subsidiary, and DIRECTV. It also plans to partner with local ISPs that want to provide Wi-Fi service in their respective markets. The portable, wireless service will provide high-speed Internet access for residents, businesses, visitors and municipal employees. Anaheim’s 49-square-foot buildout is expected to be completed by the fourth quarter. Curt Pringle, the mayor of the city, officially unwired the city at a wire-cutting ceremony this morning. “The days when Anaheim residents, workers and visitors are tied to a desk to access an affordable broadband network are coming to an end,” said Garry Betty, president and CEO of EarthLink. “The launch of this network enables people to make a choice about how, and from where, they want to access the Internet securely.” For $21.95 a month, Anaheim subscribers receive eight mailboxes and protection tools such as a spam blocker and security, and will be able to access the Internet from across the municipality, whether sitting in a park, at a café or elsewhere. Customers also can purchase a Wi-Fi modem for at-home use. In addition, EarthLink has reached a nonbinding agreement with AOL LLC and is discussing ways to offer its AOL.com content and Web assets on the municipal footprint. The network also will serve city departments and businesses; EarthLink’s wireless network offers speeds comparable to existing T1 solutions, the company says. For occasional-use customers, EarthLink offers rates ranging from $3.95 for a one-hour pass to $15.95 for a three-day pass. Occasional-use customers will connect and access account information from the EarthLink portal page. Consumers can visit www.EarthLink.net/wifi and provide their phone numbers and addresses to see if the network has been built out in their area. If unavailable, they will be added to a waiting list and will be notified when the service is available. As for infrastructure, EarthLink has deployed Tropos Networks’ MetroMesh Wi-Fi routers on light poles throughout the city to form a wireless mesh that is operated and optimized using Tropos Control and Tropos Insight, a suite of end-to-end configuration, monitoring and maintenance tools. EarthLink also uses Motorola’s MOTOwi4 portfolio of products, including the Canopy high-speed backhaul and Wi-Fi mesh network equipment. EarthLink Inc. Wi-Fi www.earthlink.net/wifi Motorola Inc. www.motorola.com Tropos Networks www.tropos.com -- Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] War Driving Police
I have yet to understand how having open WiFi poses a threat to anyone. How do you figure? Identify theft! Consume your bandwidth! Conduit for terrorists to cause havoc without being able to be found! (possibly making end users liable for havoc). I believe a customer has just as much obligation and liabilty to to secure their networks as an ISP does. Or they are liable due to neglect. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: [WISPA] War Driving Police http://techdirt.com/articles/20060629/1843240.shtml from a comment: I have yet to understand how having open WiFi poses a threat to anyone. If anyone is going to be war driving I would think it would be the internet providers, since it's your agreement with them that is being broken by leaving your WiFi unsecured. -- Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] VOIP testing tools
In the next few weeks, I want to run comparison tests between various radio manufacturers that we use, on its abilty to pass number of possible quality small packet VOIP sessions. Any suggestions on FREE testing tools that may allow such testing, both for testing VOIP Quality and Generating the Call load? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: [WISPA] Frame size update (Matt,et al). VL nows supports 1600 bytes + Well Matt, thanks to your questions I pushed them through the Alvarion RD folks and wanted to inform y'all of what I learned. I discovered that BreezeACCESS VL as of version 4.0.23 supports jumbo packets of 1600 bytes + 4 bytes of CRC. If VLAN is used the length is the same 1600 + 4 bytes. It works both ways UL and DL. Engineering has apparently tested it with Smartbit card 7710 type. Same while inspecting the packets with Ethereal. So is that adequate for what you and others are doing, such as with MPLS? - Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Unlicensed channel options greater than 19Ghz
I have a number of links that are about 3 miles in length, and looking for the MOST COST EFFECTIVE solution to create high capacity throughput (45 mbps FDX or 100mbps HDX or higher), and conserve the precious unlicensed spectrum under 6Ghz used for PtMP last mile to end user (5.3 and 5.8 Ghz, etc). 60Ghz - Can't go the distance :-( (rumored comming down as low as 9 grand) 70 Ghz - Adequate. 4X distance of 60Ghz. But way to expensive. (40 grand - 1Gb). 92 Ghz - Adequate same distance or greater than 70Ghz. But way expensive. (40 grand- 1Gb, 22 grand -100mb Fdx) 38Ghz - Adequate range. Radios super cheap from surplus or Ebay. (as low as $1000). Must pay license fee to license holder (although as little as $50 a month). The advantage of the 90Ghz technowlegy is their pencil beam size, that makes interference near impossible. So for longevity possible worth its price. So my question is What other options are there? Are there any? I know there is 26Ghz unlicensed. Any of the options sub $10,000? So far, it looks to me that the lowest cost solution is to get some surplus 38Ghz gear. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: [WISPA] Frame size update (Matt,et al). VL nows supports 1600 bytes + Well Matt, thanks to your questions I pushed them through the Alvarion RD folks and wanted to inform y'all of what I learned. I discovered that BreezeACCESS VL as of version 4.0.23 supports jumbo packets of 1600 bytes + 4 bytes of CRC. If VLAN is used the length is the same 1600 + 4 bytes. It works both ways UL and DL. Engineering has apparently tested it with Smartbit card 7710 type. Same while inspecting the packets with Ethereal. So is that adequate for what you and others are doing, such as with MPLS? - Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Re: [WISP] Clearwire is coming to my area. (eek?)
On Mon, 3 Jul 2006, D. Ryan Spott wrote: And on the RUS loans deal, does anyone know who to complain to if I don't feel there was adequate legal notice to the RUS loan being applied for in my area? Did you file your form 477? Just wondering if the government may think that there is no coverage available in your area. If not, them you may think about doing that, but it may be to late to comply with the law... -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ Mikrotik Certified Consultant (http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html) -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program
The primary difference being that in the Canopy Fixed Wireless you are including end user CPE. The largest cost to detur take rate when WISPS make subs pay for it. Its likely that one can assume that many of the subscribers will need to install outdoor equipment (adding $100-$300 BUCKS), to reliably connect to the mesh. So you could easilly add $1.5 million to the mesh cost for CPE, or remove $1.5million from the Fix Wireless plan if you were going to compare apples to apples. What Mesh still has on its side is mobility. The question is what value should a WISP put on that. Mobility can be easilly be the reason to justify why a muni should support a oublic interest project. (cable and DSL go to the home but NOT mobile for teh community to share.). Mobilty also allow Muni type applications, such as to support travelling users (commerce), or Mobile government work force. Mesh also gives Muni bargining power in the deployment, as it uses an asset of value that the governement has to trade and offer (easements, light poles, and power from them). In a Fixed Wireless deployment it could easilly be argued that teh givernemnt has little assets of value to the provider. Its usually the independant property owners tht have the preferred assets for signal distribution. For example, in my county, I am allowed free access to city infrastructure as a requirement that allowed tower building restrictions to be passed years ago. But yet I chose to pay for broadcast sites, because teh Governement do not own the best sites that are advantageous to me. Part of my point is that its not jsut the radios costs that are relevant. I'm starting to think that the Tropos, use all verticle, use only one channel all across the network, design may not be to bad an ideas after all. If it solves the challenge to get mobility well, and does not work well for subs inside their homes, it still allows lots of spectrum for the high quality Fixed Wireless providers. Part of the arguement is that its possible that MESH may be the only way to get mobilty well. And maybe the answer is to deliver it with the least impact on everyone else. Of course Alvarion mobile products have shown otherwise for vehichle mobile solutions. So what would happen if more Fixed Wireless manufacturers made Mobile CPEs? Would it get rid of some of teh need of mesh? Sure mesh gives person/laptop mobility, but will any one really use it? There is a good arguement that if usage of hotspots is low in public areas (parks, cafes, etc) it would be even lower on the streets and such. There is still very little evidence that communities will get the MESH signal insidet heir home reliably without external CPE equipment. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program a whole 49 square feet, eh ? Real hard. :) Some interesting thoughts for Friday I forget the exact numbers, but Tropos recommends something like 20 APs / square mile to get 95% coverage at b/g rates 49 square miles = 49*20 ~ 960 Aps Part# MTR-52103000-500AA is a 500 pack of HotZone Aps on their price sheet that goes for about $1.5 million list So that's $3 million in Aps -- for simplicity -- lets assume that mounting hardware, power taps, etc is equal to the equivalent in discount Then we need to add in the additional infrastructure, like backhaul SMs, Routers, Servers, etc and the services required to install / implement the system... Experience from a similar type deployment (~40 square miles) pegs the entire project at about $5 million for E,FI Market Data: Census information puts Anaheim w/ a population of 328k people (97k households) Median income for a household is $47k According to the March 2006 PEW Internet report -- in 2006, 46% of the population that makes between $30-75k / year have broadband at home So the total addressable broadband market in Anaheim is 46k subscribers of which 99% today are probably using some sort of landline cable / dsl broadband solution that is bundled together w/ their TV/phone service With a 10% penetration rate (that's ~5k subscribers) -- total revenue comes out to about $110k / month Assuming ZERO marketing, provisioning, customer service, bandwidth, support, repair costs -- the breakeven point for this system is 5 years (ouch) Lets look at fixed wireless 49 square miles is basically equivalent to a 4 mile ring around a tower Remember Area = (Pie)(R)^2 A = 3.14*4^2 A Canopy SM (averaged b/n 900 5 Ghz) costs about $300 complete (w/ antenna, mounting hardware, power supply, etc) A Canopy AP costs about $2k complete (dividing up GPS sync, etc) 5k Canopy SMs would cost me about $1.5 million The associated install costs (@ $50 / install) costs about $250k At 50 SMs
RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program
Hi Tom, The WHOLE PURPOSE of a WiFi Mesh Network Strategy is to AVOID THE COST OF THE CPE TRUCK ROLL Now -- whether this theory works in practice is a whole nother issue -Charles P.S. FWIW - personally, I find the the concept (from an ROI perspective) of a service provider WiFi mesh to be a bit far-fetched, but then again, 10 years ago, I told the founder of half.com that you was bonkers, and proceded to get into the wireless biz =/ --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 3:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program The primary difference being that in the Canopy Fixed Wireless you are including end user CPE. The largest cost to detur take rate when WISPS make subs pay for it. Its likely that one can assume that many of the subscribers will need to install outdoor equipment (adding $100-$300 BUCKS), to reliably connect to the mesh. So you could easilly add $1.5 million to the mesh cost for CPE, or remove $1.5million from the Fix Wireless plan if you were going to compare apples to apples. What Mesh still has on its side is mobility. The question is what value should a WISP put on that. Mobility can be easilly be the reason to justify why a muni should support a oublic interest project. (cable and DSL go to the home but NOT mobile for teh community to share.). Mobilty also allow Muni type applications, such as to support travelling users (commerce), or Mobile government work force. Mesh also gives Muni bargining power in the deployment, as it uses an asset of value that the governement has to trade and offer (easements, light poles, and power from them). In a Fixed Wireless deployment it could easilly be argued that teh givernemnt has little assets of value to the provider. Its usually the independant property owners tht have the preferred assets for signal distribution. For example, in my county, I am allowed free access to city infrastructure as a requirement that allowed tower building restrictions to be passed years ago. But yet I chose to pay for broadcast sites, because teh Governement do not own the best sites that are advantageous to me. Part of my point is that its not jsut the radios costs that are relevant. I'm starting to think that the Tropos, use all verticle, use only one channel all across the network, design may not be to bad an ideas after all. If it solves the challenge to get mobility well, and does not work well for subs inside their homes, it still allows lots of spectrum for the high quality Fixed Wireless providers. Part of the arguement is that its possible that MESH may be the only way to get mobilty well. And maybe the answer is to deliver it with the least impact on everyone else. Of course Alvarion mobile products have shown otherwise for vehichle mobile solutions. So what would happen if more Fixed Wireless manufacturers made Mobile CPEs? Would it get rid of some of teh need of mesh? Sure mesh gives person/laptop mobility, but will any one really use it? There is a good arguement that if usage of hotspots is low in public areas (parks, cafes, etc) it would be even lower on the streets and such. There is still very little evidence that communities will get the MESH signal insidet heir home reliably without external CPE equipment. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program a whole 49 square feet, eh ? Real hard. :) Some interesting thoughts for Friday I forget the exact numbers, but Tropos recommends something like 20 APs / square mile to get 95% coverage at b/g rates 49 square miles = 49*20 ~ 960 Aps Part# MTR-52103000-500AA is a 500 pack of HotZone Aps on their price sheet that goes for about $1.5 million list So that's $3 million in Aps -- for simplicity -- lets assume that mounting hardware, power taps, etc is equal to the equivalent in discount Then we need to add in the additional infrastructure, like backhaul SMs, Routers, Servers, etc and the services required to install / implement the system... Experience from a similar type deployment (~40 square miles) pegs the entire project at about $5 million for E,FI Market Data: Census information puts Anaheim w/ a population of 328k people (97k households) Median income for a household is $47k According to the March 2006 PEW Internet report -- in 2006, 46% of the population that makes between $30-75k / year have broadband at home So the total addressable broadband market in Anaheim is 46k subscribers of which 99% today are probably using some sort of landline cable / dsl
Re: [WISPA] Unlicensed channel options greater than 19Ghz
Your good with FSO for up to about a mile. So FSO is not good for 3 mile links. (Atleast not if they are meant to be highly reliable backbone links, which is my application). Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Sam Tetherow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 4:26 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Unlicensed channel options greater than 19Ghz Not sure on the distance, but have you looked at free space optics? Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless Tom DeReggi wrote: I have a number of links that are about 3 miles in length, and looking for the MOST COST EFFECTIVE solution to create high capacity throughput (45 mbps FDX or 100mbps HDX or higher), and conserve the precious unlicensed spectrum under 6Ghz used for PtMP last mile to end user (5.3 and 5.8 Ghz, etc). 60Ghz - Can't go the distance :-( (rumored comming down as low as 9 grand) 70 Ghz - Adequate. 4X distance of 60Ghz. But way to expensive. (40 grand - 1Gb). 92 Ghz - Adequate same distance or greater than 70Ghz. But way expensive. (40 grand- 1Gb, 22 grand -100mb Fdx) 38Ghz - Adequate range. Radios super cheap from surplus or Ebay. (as low as $1000). Must pay license fee to license holder (although as little as $50 a month). The advantage of the 90Ghz technowlegy is their pencil beam size, that makes interference near impossible. So for longevity possible worth its price. So my question is What other options are there? Are there any? I know there is 26Ghz unlicensed. Any of the options sub $10,000? So far, it looks to me that the lowest cost solution is to get some surplus 38Ghz gear. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Patrick Leary [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:03 AM Subject: [WISPA] Frame size update (Matt,et al). VL nows supports 1600 bytes + Well Matt, thanks to your questions I pushed them through the Alvarion RD folks and wanted to inform y'all of what I learned. I discovered that BreezeACCESS VL as of version 4.0.23 supports jumbo packets of 1600 bytes + 4 bytes of CRC. If VLAN is used the length is the same 1600 + 4 bytes. It works both ways UL and DL. Engineering has apparently tested it with Smartbit card 7710 type. Same while inspecting the packets with Ethereal. So is that adequate for what you and others are doing, such as with MPLS? - Patrick -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Sam Tetherow Sandhills Wireless -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] War Driving Police
Tom's presenting very sound points. First, it's dangerous. Anyone can sit in a car in front of your house with a laptop, download nasty stuff, and put it into your shared folders...then inform on you. Or, they can otherwise use your Internet connection for undesirable activities. Or, just snoop and capture a lot of information about you. Also, the providers are losing business as you violate the Terms of Use for the service. Paying customers are lost. It's no different than theft-of-service by wiring an apartment through tree-and-branch Ethernet ...similar to wiring up video cable theft. Not last, but serious, most of those folks are technologically challenged and often lock their laptop onto neighbor's open Wi-Fi AP and then cause the provider a support problem. Again, not last; it's stupid. Such folks should be very grateful to have the situation explained. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 1:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] War Driving Police I have yet to understand how having open WiFi poses a threat to anyone. How do you figure? Identify theft! Consume your bandwidth! Conduit for terrorists to cause havoc without being able to be found! (possibly making end users liable for havoc). I believe a customer has just as much obligation and liabilty to to secure their networks as an ISP does. Or they are liable due to neglect. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Peter R. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:18 AM Subject: [WISPA] War Driving Police http://techdirt.com/articles/20060629/1843240.shtml from a comment: I have yet to understand how having open WiFi poses a threat to anyone. If anyone is going to be war driving I would think it would be the internet providers, since it's your agreement with them that is being broken by leaving your WiFi unsecured. -- Regards, Peter RAD-INFO, Inc. - NSP Strategist We Help ISPs Connect Communicate 813.963.5884 http://4isps.com/newsletter.htm -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Clearwire is coming to my area. (eek?)
Clearwire may be the party that is applying for all of the RUS loans in our rural areas. Well he won;t be getting RUS loans, if you are protesting as you should be, as RUS loans are for unserved areas, and you obviously are serving it already. Competing against Clearwire is no different than competing againt any other ISP or WISP. And on the RUS loans deal, does anyone know who to complain to if I don't feel there was adequate legal notice to the RUS loan being applied for in my area? Not to be a smart alec, but try calling RUS. Their contact info or links to them are plastered all over the FCC web page :-) The problem I see in your case is that they are deploying on the same tower as you. It sounds like you don;t have a loyal tower owner or not good enough clauses to protect your right to spectrum. For example is the Orthogon equipment using 5.8Ghz? Are you using 5.8Ghz? Execute that Non-Interference clause, if you can. Provided you bought the right to broadcast at 5.8Ghz first. The problem with them being on the same tower is, you are competing for the exact same clients. My advice is take advantage of any customer awareness that they generate for you. If you are there first, hopefully you know the market better. Time to vamp up your marketing, and running your signup promotions. The good news is that Clearwire's sectors most likely are not going to interfere with you (provided using 2.5Ghz or what ever it is). Just remember the DSL world, when there were 100 ISPs all selling DSL in the same town, and there was enough business to go around. Don't worry about Clearwire, worry about your business. What are you going to do to make custoemrs want to use you. Let Clearwire worry about why they think customers should chose them instead. Ask your self why customers would choose clearwire over you. My answer would be, no reason I could think of. So you have as much a chance at the client base as Clearwire. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: [WISPA] Clearwire is coming to my area. (eek?) I have a tower in rural Western Washington. Today I went in to find 5 of thier radios still in the box, 1 Orthogon systems PTP ethernet bridge, an APS rack etc So... does anyone else out there compete with Mr McCaw? How does his service stack up? I don't mean to be a the sky is falling or conspiracy theory kind of guy but not only is Clearwire suddenly up in this area, but I think Clearwire may be the party that is applying for all of the RUS loans in our rural areas. And on the RUS loans deal, does anyone know who to complain to if I don't feel there was adequate legal notice to the RUS loan being applied for in my area? ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program
I had a quick interesting conversation with Mobile Pro at WCA. And he brought up a good point about, why should we discourage investment in this industry. I say, if someone thinks they can make mesh work, good for them, I'll even help them if I can to find ways for it to work better, as long as its done on their dollar. Who am I to critisize that Earthlink or anyone can or can't make it work. If they make it work, horray for us all, we can all follow step and install mesh networks ourselves, after letting them pay for all the RD to prove it can work. But today... I bet my money on models that have proven to work. There is no evidence that Zero truck roll/ Zero CPE models will work reliably. MESH for mobility (or I should say portabilty) on the other hand is clearly possibly, even advantageous with MESH. So I do not care what the WHOLE PURPOSE is, all I care about is what is the WHOLE REALITY. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:49 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program Hi Tom, The WHOLE PURPOSE of a WiFi Mesh Network Strategy is to AVOID THE COST OF THE CPE TRUCK ROLL Now -- whether this theory works in practice is a whole nother issue -Charles P.S. FWIW - personally, I find the the concept (from an ROI perspective) of a service provider WiFi mesh to be a bit far-fetched, but then again, 10 years ago, I told the founder of half.com that you was bonkers, and proceded to get into the wireless biz =/ --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 3:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program The primary difference being that in the Canopy Fixed Wireless you are including end user CPE. The largest cost to detur take rate when WISPS make subs pay for it. Its likely that one can assume that many of the subscribers will need to install outdoor equipment (adding $100-$300 BUCKS), to reliably connect to the mesh. So you could easilly add $1.5 million to the mesh cost for CPE, or remove $1.5million from the Fix Wireless plan if you were going to compare apples to apples. What Mesh still has on its side is mobility. The question is what value should a WISP put on that. Mobility can be easilly be the reason to justify why a muni should support a oublic interest project. (cable and DSL go to the home but NOT mobile for teh community to share.). Mobilty also allow Muni type applications, such as to support travelling users (commerce), or Mobile government work force. Mesh also gives Muni bargining power in the deployment, as it uses an asset of value that the governement has to trade and offer (easements, light poles, and power from them). In a Fixed Wireless deployment it could easilly be argued that teh givernemnt has little assets of value to the provider. Its usually the independant property owners tht have the preferred assets for signal distribution. For example, in my county, I am allowed free access to city infrastructure as a requirement that allowed tower building restrictions to be passed years ago. But yet I chose to pay for broadcast sites, because teh Governement do not own the best sites that are advantageous to me. Part of my point is that its not jsut the radios costs that are relevant. I'm starting to think that the Tropos, use all verticle, use only one channel all across the network, design may not be to bad an ideas after all. If it solves the challenge to get mobility well, and does not work well for subs inside their homes, it still allows lots of spectrum for the high quality Fixed Wireless providers. Part of the arguement is that its possible that MESH may be the only way to get mobilty well. And maybe the answer is to deliver it with the least impact on everyone else. Of course Alvarion mobile products have shown otherwise for vehichle mobile solutions. So what would happen if more Fixed Wireless manufacturers made Mobile CPEs? Would it get rid of some of teh need of mesh? Sure mesh gives person/laptop mobility, but will any one really use it? There is a good arguement that if usage of hotspots is low in public areas (parks, cafes, etc) it would be even lower on the streets and such. There is still very little evidence that communities will get the MESH signal insidet heir home reliably without external CPE equipment. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 1:43 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces
Re: [WISPA] Clearwire is coming to my area. (eek?)
We have Clearwire in some of the area we serve. I think we have lost one customer to them, but we have gotten customers that could not use them. In the area where they serve (Modesto, Ceres, Turlock of Ca.) they are trying to get the populated areas, competing against DSL and Cable. They provide their customers with an indoor CPE and tell them how to connect it, and to move it around until they can get a good signal. Well 2.5 ghz still does not penetrate trees, brick, cement block or stucco homes. We have alot of all of these. Also their range seems to be approx 1 to 1.5 miles from their towers. Tim Kerns CV-Access, Inc. - Original Message - From: Tom DeReggi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Clearwire is coming to my area. (eek?) Clearwire may be the party that is applying for all of the RUS loans in our rural areas. Well he won;t be getting RUS loans, if you are protesting as you should be, as RUS loans are for unserved areas, and you obviously are serving it already. Competing against Clearwire is no different than competing againt any other ISP or WISP. And on the RUS loans deal, does anyone know who to complain to if I don't feel there was adequate legal notice to the RUS loan being applied for in my area? Not to be a smart alec, but try calling RUS. Their contact info or links to them are plastered all over the FCC web page :-) The problem I see in your case is that they are deploying on the same tower as you. It sounds like you don;t have a loyal tower owner or not good enough clauses to protect your right to spectrum. For example is the Orthogon equipment using 5.8Ghz? Are you using 5.8Ghz? Execute that Non-Interference clause, if you can. Provided you bought the right to broadcast at 5.8Ghz first. The problem with them being on the same tower is, you are competing for the exact same clients. My advice is take advantage of any customer awareness that they generate for you. If you are there first, hopefully you know the market better. Time to vamp up your marketing, and running your signup promotions. The good news is that Clearwire's sectors most likely are not going to interfere with you (provided using 2.5Ghz or what ever it is). Just remember the DSL world, when there were 100 ISPs all selling DSL in the same town, and there was enough business to go around. Don't worry about Clearwire, worry about your business. What are you going to do to make custoemrs want to use you. Let Clearwire worry about why they think customers should chose them instead. Ask your self why customers would choose clearwire over you. My answer would be, no reason I could think of. So you have as much a chance at the client base as Clearwire. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: D. Ryan Spott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: [WISPA] Clearwire is coming to my area. (eek?) I have a tower in rural Western Washington. Today I went in to find 5 of thier radios still in the box, 1 Orthogon systems PTP ethernet bridge, an APS rack etc So... does anyone else out there compete with Mr McCaw? How does his service stack up? I don't mean to be a the sky is falling or conspiracy theory kind of guy but not only is Clearwire suddenly up in this area, but I think Clearwire may be the party that is applying for all of the RUS loans in our rural areas. And on the RUS loans deal, does anyone know who to complain to if I don't feel there was adequate legal notice to the RUS loan being applied for in my area? ryan -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.5/376 - Release Date: 6/26/2006 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program
Some of the support-free, subscription-free, cost-free models may work that way in some sense. That is, if you want to avail yourself of the free cloud you need to get a savvy friend or employ a nerd-for-hire to get you hooked up. The provider simply inhales deeply, exhales the cloud, puts up advertising and expects a peripheral-industry to be support-for-hire...and, collects the ad revenue. . . . j o n a t h a n -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 6:25 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program I had a quick interesting conversation with Mobile Pro at WCA. And he brought up a good point about, why should we discourage investment in this industry. I say, if someone thinks they can make mesh work, good for them, I'll even help them if I can to find ways for it to work better, as long as its done on their dollar. Who am I to critisize that Earthlink or anyone can or can't make it work. If they make it work, horray for us all, we can all follow step and install mesh networks ourselves, after letting them pay for all the RD to prove it can work. But today... I bet my money on models that have proven to work. There is no evidence that Zero truck roll/ Zero CPE models will work reliably. MESH for mobility (or I should say portabilty) on the other hand is clearly possibly, even advantageous with MESH. So I do not care what the WHOLE PURPOSE is, all I care about is what is the WHOLE REALITY. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Charles Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 5:49 PM Subject: RE: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program Hi Tom, The WHOLE PURPOSE of a WiFi Mesh Network Strategy is to AVOID THE COST OF THE CPE TRUCK ROLL Now -- whether this theory works in practice is a whole nother issue -Charles P.S. FWIW - personally, I find the the concept (from an ROI perspective) of a service provider WiFi mesh to be a bit far-fetched, but then again, 10 years ago, I told the founder of half.com that you was bonkers, and proceded to get into the wireless biz =/ --- CWLab Technology Architects http://www.cwlab.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 3:03 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] EarthLink Unwires Anaheim, Announces Wholesale Program The primary difference being that in the Canopy Fixed Wireless you are including end user CPE. The largest cost to detur take rate when WISPS make subs pay for it. Its likely that one can assume that many of the subscribers will need to install outdoor equipment (adding $100-$300 BUCKS), to reliably connect to the mesh. So you could easilly add $1.5 million to the mesh cost for CPE, or remove $1.5million from the Fix Wireless plan if you were going to compare apples to apples. What Mesh still has on its side is mobility. The question is what value should a WISP put on that. Mobility can be easilly be the reason to justify why a muni should support a oublic interest project. (cable and DSL go to the home but NOT mobile for teh community to share.). Mobilty also allow Muni type applications, such as to support travelling users (commerce), or Mobile government work force. Mesh also gives Muni bargining power in the deployment, as it uses an asset of value that the governement has to trade and offer (easements, light poles, and power from them). In a Fixed Wireless deployment it could easilly be argued that teh givernemnt has little assets of value to the provider. Its usually the independant property owners tht have the preferred assets for signal distribution. For example, in my county, I am allowed free access to city infrastructure as a requirement that allowed tower building restrictions to be passed years ago. But yet I chose to pay for broadcast sites, because teh Governement do not own the best sites that are advantageous to me. Part of my point is that its not jsut the radios costs that are relevant. I'm starting to think that the Tropos, use all verticle, use only one channel all across the network, design may not be to bad an ideas after all. If it solves the challenge to get mobility well, and does not work well for subs inside their homes, it still allows lots of spectrum for the high quality Fixed Wireless providers. Part of the arguement is that its possible that MESH may be the only way to get mobilty well. And maybe the answer is to deliver it with the least impact on everyone else. Of course Alvarion mobile products have shown otherwise for vehichle mobile solutions. So what would happen if more Fixed Wireless manufacturers made Mobile CPEs? Would it get rid of some of teh
[WISPA] US MikroTik Certification training class St Louis, MO July 30-Aug 3rd.
*** This is a paid advertisement which has been approved by the WISPA Board of Directors.*** WISP-Training.com will be doing a 4-day training session covering Mikrotik's RouterOS software. This training session will be held in St. Louis, MO on Jul 31-Aug 3. Find out more at http://www.wisp-router.com/ This class will be an intense and detailed introduction to most of the functionality of RouterOS v2.9. It will offer extensive hands on training where you get a chance to really work what youre learning. By the end of the 4day session, students will have built a fully functional secure network. Students will have the opportunity to work with a variety of interface types (both wired and wireless). Included in the training is a TCP/IP primer, which will include such topics such as: How routers work Subnetting and how to subnet a network. Following the TCP/IP primer will be MikroTik 2.9 specific training including the following topics among others: Mikrotik installation Static Routing Wireless Interface and Networking (including WDS and NStream) Dynamic Routing (RIP, BGP and OSPF) Firewall Hotspot MikroTik Queues Peer to Peer queues PPPoE Server/Client VPN server/client And more!! Hands on labs include: Set up and configure multiple interfaces Configure the firewall to protect the router Configure the firewall to prevent the spread (and infection) of recent internet worms Configure NAT and DHCP Set up PPPoE/PPtP Set up a VPN Configure Peer to Peer Queues Set up queues for Bandwidth Management Configure Hotspot Set up an OSPF network Who Should Attend: This training is targeted toward network administrators, integrators, managers and others who wish to gain a better understanding of routing concepts in general and routing with MikroTik RouterOS specifically. Prerequisites: An understanding of networking concepts is require and have a basic understanding about TCP/IP and know what a IP, netmask and gateway is and how to configure a computer with this information. Course Length: 4days (Includes LOTS of hands on training) Where and When! The training will be held in St. Louis, MO on Jul 31-Aug 3 The training will be located at the Best Western Kirkwood Inn, Saint Louis. Don't miss this opportunity to attend this class. Seating is limited, so be sure to sign up now.No cancellations after July 24th will be refunded. MikroTik Certification! There will be a voluntary MikroTik certification test at the end of the training. Offers! Wisp-Router will be offering a 10% discount coupon per student for any purchase of equipment. Coupon is not valid with any other offer. Maximum savings of $200 per coupon, one coupon per order. Coupon good for one use only within3 months from date of issue. MikroTik offers a free level4 license key to every student. IMPORTANT! - If you are registering more than one person, or registering for someone other than yourself, please provide the attendee's name in the comments section of your order so that we may provide name tags and MikroTik certificates in the proper person's name! REGISTRATION DEADLINE IS MONDAY, July 24th. REGISTRATIONS RECEIVED AFTER July 24th WILL NOT BE GUARANTEED TRAINING MATERIALS or TRAINING MANUALS AND/OR REFRESHMENTS AT THE TRAINING SESSION. PAYMENT IN ADVANCE OF COURSE IS REQUIRED IN ORDER TO GUARANTEE COURSE PLACEMENT Sales WISP-Router, Inc. 620-231- x150 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] US MikroTik Certification training class St Louis, MO July 30-Aug 3rd
*** This is a paid advertisement which has been approved by the WISPA Board of Directors.*** WISP-Training.com will be doing a 4-day training session covering Mikrotik's RouterOS software. This training session will be held in St. Louis, MO on Jul 31-Aug 3. Find out more at http://www.wisp-router.com/ This class will be an intense and detailed introduction to most of the functionality of RouterOS v2.9. It will offer extensive hands on training where you get a chance to really work what youre learning. By the end of the 4day session, students will have built a fully functional secure network. Students will have the opportunity to work with a variety of interface types (both wired and wireless). Included in the training is a TCP/IP primer, which will include such topics such as: How routers work Subnetting and how to subnet a network. Following the TCP/IP primer will be MikroTik 2.9 specific training including the following topics among others: Mikrotik installation Static Routing Wireless Interface and Networking (including WDS and NStream) Dynamic Routing (RIP, BGP and OSPF) Firewall Hotspot MikroTik Queues Peer to Peer queues PPPoE Server/Client VPN server/client And more!! Hands on labs include: Set up and configure multiple interfaces Configure the firewall to protect the router Configure the firewall to prevent the spread (and infection) of recent internet worms Configure NAT and DHCP Set up PPPoE/PPtP Set up a VPN Configure Peer to Peer Queues Set up queues for Bandwidth Management Configure Hotspot Set up an OSPF network Who Should Attend: This training is targeted toward network administrators, integrators, managers and others who wish to gain a better understanding of routing concepts in general and routing with MikroTik RouterOS specifically. Prerequisites: An understanding of networking concepts is require and have a basic understanding about TCP/IP and know what a IP, netmask and gateway is and how to configure a computer with this information. Course Length: 4days (Includes LOTS of hands on training) Where and When! The training will be held in St. Louis, MO on Jul 31-Aug 3 The training will be located at the Best Western Kirkwood Inn, Saint Louis. Don't miss this opportunity to attend this class. Seating is limited, so be sure to sign up now.No cancellations after July 24th will be refunded. MikroTik Certification! There will be a voluntary MikroTik certification test at the end of the training. Offers! Wisp-Router will be offering a 10% discount coupon per student for any purchase of equipment. Coupon is not valid with any other offer. Maximum savings of $200 per coupon, one coupon per order. Coupon good for one use only within3 months from date of issue. MikroTik offers a free level4 license key to every student. IMPORTANT! - If you are registering more than one person, or registering for someone other than yourself, please provide the attendee's name in the comments section of your order so that we may provide name tags and MikroTik certificates in the proper person's name! REGISTRATION DEADLINE IS MONDAY, July 24th. REGISTRATIONS RECEIVED AFTER July 24th WILL NOT BE GUARANTEED TRAINING MATERIALS or TRAINING MANUALS AND/OR REFRESHMENTS AT THE TRAINING SESSION. PAYMENT IN ADVANCE OF COURSE IS REQUIRED IN ORDER TO GUARANTEE COURSE PLACEMENT Sales WISP-Router, Inc. 620-231- x150 -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Thanks to Butch Evans
I just wanted to send out my personal thanks to Butch Evans for taking the positive step of asking how to advertise on the WISPA lists and then actually following through and paying as he did. We have seen many attempts by distributors, vendors, etc. to use WISPA resources to their advantage in the past and few have asked how they can do so in such a way where their message reaches the hundreds of potential customers available via WISPA online resources while giving back to the WISP industry through paid advertisement. It is the right thing to do and I just wanted to say thank you to Butch for doing the right thing. If you are someone who sells to WISPs and you want to do the right thing then hit me offline at [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I will get you the information you need to help you reach the readers of the WISPA list servers and help us with our mission to help the WISP industry. All the best, Scriv PS. I am sorry for sending the ad out twice on this list. I made a mistake. begin:vcard fn:John Scrivner n:Scrivner;John org:Mt. Vernon. Net, Inc. adr;dom:PO Box 1582;;1 Dr Park Road Suite H1;Mt. Vernon;Il;62864 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:President tel;work:618-244-6868 url:http://www.mvn.net/ version:2.1 end:vcard -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
