Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Mike Hammett]

I've been through the Lee, IL site now owned by Terry Michaels.  Nice place. 
I haven't been there in a few years, though.  He's got quite a write up on 
that one now.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2008 12:12 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF

> Lyons was one of the power feed stations.  Very cool
> place.  It is now in private ownership - a telephone
> collector owns it.
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>>I thought Lyons sounded familiar...  a coax route went from a facility 
>>near
>> here to that facility.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "jp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>> I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of
>>> AT&T Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for
>>> federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example
>>>
>>> http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html
>>>
>>> They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to
>>> be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to
>>> survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a
>>> little with a small community homeland security radio project, AT&T had
>>> the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking.
>>>
>>> If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards
>>> with fat contracts to a monopoly provider.
>>>
>>> I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal
>>> government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was
>>> working for that had this contract had bid against AT&T to get it. If
>>> the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost.
>>>
>>> Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary
>>> cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote:
 The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
 It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open
 wire
 pole lines by himself.
 He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve 
 his
 system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us 
 government.
 You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill 
 lower
 through money that flows from that program to the general fund.

 Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported
 by
 taxes?
 When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.

 How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there
 was
 a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the
 same
 city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to
 tax
 it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.


 - Original Message - 
 From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


 > Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
 > Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
 > utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that 
 > means
 > that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
 > than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
 > I really off base here?
 > -RickG
 >
 > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 > wrote:
 >> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
 >> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
 >> You do not have to participate.
 >> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
 >> That is not a tax.
 >>
 >> - Original Message -
 >> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 >> To: "WISPA General List" 
 >> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
 >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
 >>
 >>
 >>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
 >>>
 >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTEC

Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Blake Bowers]

Lyons was one of the power feed stations.  Very cool
place.  It is now in private ownership - a telephone
collector owns it.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


>I thought Lyons sounded familiar...  a coax route went from a facility near
> here to that facility.
>
>
> --
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "jp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>> I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of
>> AT&T Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for
>> federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example
>>
>> http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html
>>
>> They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to
>> be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to
>> survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a
>> little with a small community homeland security radio project, AT&T had
>> the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking.
>>
>> If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards
>> with fat contracts to a monopoly provider.
>>
>> I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal
>> government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was
>> working for that had this contract had bid against AT&T to get it. If
>> the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost.
>>
>> Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary
>> cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
>>> It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open
>>> wire
>>> pole lines by himself.
>>> He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his
>>> system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us government.
>>> You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower
>>> through money that flows from that program to the general fund.
>>>
>>> Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported 
>>> by
>>> taxes?
>>> When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.
>>>
>>> How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there
>>> was
>>> a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the 
>>> same
>>> city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to 
>>> tax
>>> it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>>
>>>
>>> > Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
>>> > Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
>>> > utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
>>> > that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
>>> > than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
>>> > I really off base here?
>>> > -RickG
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
>>> >> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
>>> >> You do not have to participate.
>>> >> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
>>> >> That is not a tax.
>>> >>
>>> >> - Original Message -
>>> >> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> >> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> >>> wrote:
>>>  The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between
>>>  school
>>>  districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and
>>>  provider
>>>  of
>>>  goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not
>>>  shown
>>>  any
>>>  telephone company to be misusing this money.
>>> 
>>>  And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this
>>>  money
>>>  is
>>>  from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is
>>>  revenue
>>>  pooling and re-distri

Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Mike Hammett]

I thought Lyons sounded familiar...  a coax route went from a facility near 
here to that facility.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "jp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF

> I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of
> AT&T Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for
> federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example
>
> http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html
>
> They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to
> be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to
> survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a
> little with a small community homeland security radio project, AT&T had
> the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking.
>
> If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards
> with fat contracts to a monopoly provider.
>
> I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal
> government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was
> working for that had this contract had bid against AT&T to get it. If
> the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost.
>
> Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary
> cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon.
>
> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
>> It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open 
>> wire
>> pole lines by himself.
>> He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his
>> system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us government.
>> You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower
>> through money that flows from that program to the general fund.
>>
>> Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by
>> taxes?
>> When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.
>>
>> How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there 
>> was
>> a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same
>> city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax
>> it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>> > Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
>> > Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
>> > utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
>> > that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
>> > than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
>> > I really off base here?
>> > -RickG
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> > wrote:
>> >> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
>> >> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
>> >> You do not have to participate.
>> >> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
>> >> That is not a tax.
>> >>
>> >> - Original Message -
>> >> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> >> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> >>> wrote:
>>  The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between 
>>  school
>>  districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and 
>>  provider
>>  of
>>  goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not
>>  shown
>>  any
>>  telephone company to be misusing this money.
>> 
>>  And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this 
>>  money
>>  is
>>  from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is
>>  revenue
>>  pooling and re-distribution.
>> 
>>  So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
>>  discussion.
>>  If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing 
>>  at
>>  the
>>  local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
>>  misuse.
>>  The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots
>>  service
>>  to
>>  rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a 
>>  business
>>  plan
>>  around tapping the USF for all it could get.

Re: [WISPA] layer 2 vs layer 3 wireless mesh networks

[charles]

Wow. I'm in a presentation on that right now. Haha 

Ill send a copy of the slides when I have them. 


--Original Message--
From: Rogelio
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WISPA General List
ReplyTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ReplyTo: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] layer 2 vs layer 3 wireless mesh networks
Sent: Oct 9, 2008 8:53 PM

I'm looking for info on differences between layer 2 and layer 3 mesh 
networks.  From what I can tell, it's something like the following:

layer 2: manageable via IP address, but you really only control the 
PHY/DATA link layer "stuff" (channels, 802.1Q VLAN tagging, 802.11e, etc)

layer 3: some other controller uses some sort of layer 3-ish protocol 
(e.g. LWAPP) to "talk" to the access points and manage the PHY/DATA link 
layer stuff.

Is this an accurate description?  Or am I missing something?

Also, which is "better"?  Is either categorically better?  Or do 
different environments lend themselves to one solution or the other?




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Charles Wyble
(818)280-7059



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[WISPA] layer 2 vs layer 3 wireless mesh networks

[Rogelio]

I'm looking for info on differences between layer 2 and layer 3 mesh 
networks.  From what I can tell, it's something like the following:

layer 2: manageable via IP address, but you really only control the 
PHY/DATA link layer "stuff" (channels, 802.1Q VLAN tagging, 802.11e, etc)

layer 3: some other controller uses some sort of layer 3-ish protocol 
(e.g. LWAPP) to "talk" to the access points and manage the PHY/DATA link 
layer stuff.

Is this an accurate description?  Or am I missing something?

Also, which is "better"?  Is either categorically better?  Or do 
different environments lend themselves to one solution or the other?




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[WISPA] ISPCON Coming Up soon

[Rick Harnish]

ISPCON   will be at San Jose on Nov. 11 and 12th.
The WISPA reception will be at 6:30 on Tuesday evening, Nov. 11th.  We would
like to get an idea how many WISPs and Vendors will be attending for
catering estimations and other logistical scheduling.  If you plan to go to
ISPCON, please speak up or email me offlist.

 

We are looking for WISPA members to volunteer to work in the WISPA booth of
2 hour shifts on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.  If you are willing to
volunteer some time, we would appreciate it.  It is a great way to meet a
lot of other WISPs and vendors in a comfortable manner.  RSVP if you are
willing to help.

 

Thank you,

 

Rick Harnish




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[WISPA] Any Optigold Experts Out there

[Charles Wu]

I know you're hiding somewhere...

Ping me offlist

-Charles


Charles Wu
President
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
cell: 773-457-0718 * office: 773-667-4585 x2500

16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 * tel: 773.667.4585 fax: 
773.326.4641



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John McDowell
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax world news?

Jeff,
Hit me offlist. I would like to continue our talk about the CC processing.

Thanks!

John

On Wed, Oct 8, 2008 at 2:52 PM, Jeff Ehman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> WiNOG did have the Wu Wu special
>
> 2 Parts Technical Jargon
> 1 Part Credit Card Processing ON DISCOUNT
>
> :)
>
> Some humor for a great Wednesday afternoon
>
> -Jeff
> General Manager
> CTI
> (773) 667-4585 x2509
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Ehman
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 2:42 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax world news?
>
> WiMAX World was a bunch of mobile pipedream stuff with an emphasis on in
> the clouds technology roadmaps, haha.
>
> What most people got out of WiNOG was the ability to speak with other
> operators ACTUALLY deploying 3.65 gear.  Can't really describe the good
> parts, except for getting Redline and Aperto's full attention for 2 days
> instead of being attacked by 300 vendors.
>
> I think everyone in our industry is aware of the benefit of 3.65 being open
> spectrum and the ability for high quality service due to WiMAX's QoS
> capabilities.  Only time will tell with which manufacturer will win your
> hearts but the mobile stuff that WiMAX World spoke about is not it at this
> point.
>
> -Jeff
> General Manager
> CTI
> (773) 667-4585 x2509
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Gino Villarini
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 5:29 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax world news?
>
> Well, lets hear it!  I was unable to attend, even tough I really wanted!
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> tel  787.273.4143   fax   787.273.4145
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Charles Wu
> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 11:27 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Wimax world news?
>
> Nothing terribly exciting at WiMAX World
>
> WiNOG, on the other hand...
>
> 
>
> -Charles
>
>
> Charles Wu
> President
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> cell: 773-457-0718 * office: 773-667-4585 x2500
>
> 16W235 83rd Street, Suite A, Burr Ridge, IL 60527 * tel: 773.667.4585
> fax: 773.326.4641
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Gino Villarini
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 3:43 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Wimax world news?
>
> Any interesting news?
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Adam Greene <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List 
> Subject: [WISPA] Radwin 2000
>
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone heard of or used products by Radwin (www.radwin.com)?
>
> I understand they are releasing the Radwin 2000 series of 5.x GHz
> point-to-point links in the US in November.
>
> The price is very attractive.
>
> My main concern is performance & reliability. We can test the
> performance within a short period of time, but not the reliability
> (would need to have the link up for a while to do that). We are
> considering these for a critical < 2 mi. link.
>
> Thanks,
> Adam
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
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>
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged,
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> agent responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient,
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> of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have recei

[WISPA] Vox makes Press Release

[Rick Harnish]

http://www.wispa.org/?p=284

 

Rick Harnish

General Manager - Midwest Region

Great American Broadband

260-827-2482

 




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Re: [WISPA] ISPs in US

[David E. Smith]

Tom DeReggi wrote:
> There had been numerous counts in excess of 7000, and some counts as high as 
> 10,000.
> That was before we were counting WISPs.  I have no idea where this is 
> recorded factually.

Heck, before you can even count ISPs you have to define ISP. Depending 
on how picky you want to get, folks using services like Speakeasy's 
Netshare (basically, you get service from Speakeasy, resell it, they do 
the billing, you do the tech support) might be considered as "people 
operating an ISP".

WISPs? Cable? DSL? Dial-up? It just gets more confusing from there.

>> Anybody have a ballpark number for the amount if ISP's in the United 
>> States?
>> Or a site I can go find this out?
>> Thanks.

What are you hoping to do with the information? If we can narrow the 
question down a bit, maybe we can find a better way to answer it.

David Smith
MVN.net



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Re: [WISPA] ISPs in US

[Tom DeReggi]

There had been numerous counts in excess of 7000, and some counts as high as 
10,000.
That was before we were counting WISPs.  I have no idea where this is 
recorded factually.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Mario Pommier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:13 PM
Subject: [WISPA] ISPs in US


> Anybody have a ballpark number for the amount if ISP's in the United 
> States?
> Or a site I can go find this out?
> Thanks.
>
> Mario
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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[WISPA] Testing radio cards

[Mark McElvy]

Is there a good way to test how a radio card is performing? I have
several mini-PCI radios, XR2, CM-9, etc, that I need to determine if
they are performing to specification. They are in the office on the
bench.

 

Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.






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Re: [WISPA] ISPs in US

[Rick Harnish]

Matt Larsen's WISP Directory
http://www.wispdirectory.com/


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mario Pommier
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 4:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] ISPs in US

Anybody have a ballpark number for the amount if ISP's in the United States?
Or a site I can go find this out?
Thanks.

Mario





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[WISPA] ISPs in US

[Mario Pommier]

Anybody have a ballpark number for the amount if ISP's in the United States?
Or a site I can go find this out?
Thanks.

Mario




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[WISPA] Done loving this thread

[Chuck McCown - 3]

True, AT&T and the department of defense were best buddies.  I remember HVAC 
systems in the TD-2 microwave systems that kept heaters and airconditioners 
running all year long so they could simply mix the air to get the temp they 
wanted.  Gold plated system.  But it was a good system.  Part of the 
justification for divestiture and deregulation was that the majority of 
America (using AT&T) had bought and paid for the system several times over 
so it really was a quazi public property. So they did a reverse 
privatization.  And now we all have the system we have.  I like it better 
than back in the old Ma Bell days.  If Western Electric didn't make it, you 
didn't need it.

So it got broke up and competition was supposed to flourish etc etc.  They 
are still experimenting.  Part of the problem is that the S in USF is still 
defined as POTS on copper.  Our company is personally sponsoring a bill in 
our legislature that expands that to broadband.

Look for an FCC ruling in November that may change the rules for all of us.

- Original Message - 
From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


>I am an avid AT&T long lines historian.
>
> AT&T made lots of federal money.  Cost plus.  Thats
> how most of it worked.  I own some of the big AT&T
> junctions that included fall out shelters, blast doors, etc,
> as well as many repeater sites.
>
> Those sites were built on tarrifs, that called for their
> construction in that manner.  Cost plus.  Where AT&T
> really made their money is buying lots of what went into
> those sites from their subsidiaries.  Cost plus.
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "jp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>>I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of
>> AT&T Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for
>> federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example
>>
>> http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html
>>
>> They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to
>> be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to
>> survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a
>> little with a small community homeland security radio project, AT&T had
>> the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking.
>>
>> If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards
>> with fat contracts to a monopoly provider.
>>
>> I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal
>> government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was
>> working for that had this contract had bid against AT&T to get it. If
>> the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost.
>>
>> Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary
>> cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote:
>>> The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
>>> It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open
>>> wire
>>> pole lines by himself.
>>> He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his
>>> system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us government.
>>> You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower
>>> through money that flows from that program to the general fund.
>>>
>>> Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported 
>>> by
>>> taxes?
>>> When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.
>>>
>>> How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there
>>> was
>>> a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the 
>>> same
>>> city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to 
>>> tax
>>> it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.
>>>
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>>
>>>
>>> > Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
>>> > Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
>>> > utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
>>> > that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
>>> > than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
>>> > I really off base here?
>>> > -RickG
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post o

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

[Gino Villarini]

Iirc alvarion vl are 55 vdc

Gino


-Original Message-
From: Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 3:42 PM
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

Yes, the first place to start is to determine the Alvarion specs. 1) Max 
power or amperage draw from the Alvarion VLs, and 2) min and max Voltage 
tolerance.  I don;t have that answer for you. But please share it, when you 
find out :-)

The general rule is, you can make a combine POE system to serve identical 
distances as standalone POE systems. But you still ahve to do the math for 
stnadalone POE system. For example, You can take a 48V POE up 500 feet 
easilly, to deliver JUST POWER.  But data will never go that high. If you 
had to serve height beyond Ethernet POE specs, you'd then need to do the 
Power extraction up in a NEMA box on the tower.

Again, we did not do it with Alvarion, but the way we did it was

We took standard standalone POE injectors (ones without integrated PS).
Valemount Injectors that are black, square, one led, and sell for about 
$5-$7.
This allowed us to have circuit board connecting both Ether jacks for 
reliability.
These models allowed a wiretie to fit between the PS jack and the CAT5 plug, 
so it could be asilly secured and easilly individually untied in the field. 
We put one extra one inline for hot spare.
Now, we were doing 24v, so You need to confirm the injectors that you 
selected allowed voltage level for Alvarion.
I know the little white half moons, can do 48V no problem.
If the standard 802.11 pin-out isn;t what Alvarion uses, then compensate 
with the pin-out of the Plug crimping on.
We then laid them side by side mounted flat to a plywood strip.
We actually just screwed the Strip to the rack, because we cut it to reach 
19" rack.
It could also be glued to a Nema Box back, with construction plywood roof 
glue.
We cut the height of the strip about 6 inches, so we had 2 inched on top and 
bottom to Staple patch cable in place, with it still having room to unplug. 
IN one case we used screw in eye hooks, and then just strapped the cable to 
the eye hook for strain relief.
We then took standard two strand wire and soldered the round plugs to them 
(the kind that the standard POE required).
We then took two of those standard screw down DC bus bars (can be ordered 
from any electrician or electronic store) with like 8-12 screws on thems, 
and labeled them - and +.  Then of course screwed down the wires to them.
(Just as easilly we could have soldered the eight wires togeather, so all 
the cables were like a 8 cable bundled single unit.)
We then Used a thicker guage wire, I think it was 16-18 guage and ran that 
from the Bud Bar to our dedicated power supply.
(Many power supply types available).

Whether it works is just doing the math of cable Voltage loss, and how much 
amperage the cable can take. See AWG chart attached.
Also see POE calculater at 
http://www.demarctech.com/techsupport/poecalculate.htm
Its importnat to remember that the Voltage loss is different based on the 
amperage that is occuring at the time, so you don;t want to over power 
voltage to compensate for the loss, to the extent that an inactive radio 
would be delviered voltage greater than the radio could accept.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Cameron Kilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount


> All of your questions Tom are important and have taken those into
> consideration.
>
> Right now, I just want to figure out if anybody has done it and how.
>
> We have made a POE system that puts out 48volt and it works on the bench
> with VL units, but when there is a significant cable run it stops
> working, I guess the important thing to find out is what is the minimum
> and maximum voltage that can be sent to a Alvarion VL or B radio?
>
> -Cameron
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Randy Cosby
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:07 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount
>
> I have got to put a plug in for the "SuperRMS".  We just installed our
> second unit.  Just a great box for doing DC power control (or AC if you
> want).  Pricey, but very flexibile and powerful.  Also has temperature,
> voltage measurent, alarm contact monitoring, USB port with camera
> drivers, alert and relay scripting, linux shell and on and on
>
> http://www.remotemonitoringsystems.ca/rms2/
>
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>> There are three questions that come up...
>>
>> 1) Redundancy
>> 2) minimizing impact of failure
>> 3) Ability to remote reboot.
>>
>> We had chosen to stay with individual AC Adapter POE systems, for the
> above
>> reasons.
>> The individual AC PS adapter plugged into the AC style Digital Logger
> reboot
>> device.
>> If a P

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

[George Rogato]

http://www.cablesandkits.com/cisco-3500-series-port-poe-switch-wsc3524pwrxlen-p-869.html

How about one of these puppies?
Someone on the star forums said they used a cisco 3500 poe switch and it 
fired up a 48v wp188 board.



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Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

[Tom DeReggi]

Yes, the first place to start is to determine the Alvarion specs. 1) Max 
power or amperage draw from the Alvarion VLs, and 2) min and max Voltage 
tolerance.  I don;t have that answer for you. But please share it, when you 
find out :-)


The general rule is, you can make a combine POE system to serve identical 
distances as standalone POE systems. But you still ahve to do the math for 
stnadalone POE system. For example, You can take a 48V POE up 500 feet 
easilly, to deliver JUST POWER.  But data will never go that high. If you 
had to serve height beyond Ethernet POE specs, you'd then need to do the 
Power extraction up in a NEMA box on the tower.


Again, we did not do it with Alvarion, but the way we did it was

We took standard standalone POE injectors (ones without integrated PS).
Valemount Injectors that are black, square, one led, and sell for about 
$5-$7.
This allowed us to have circuit board connecting both Ether jacks for 
reliability.
These models allowed a wiretie to fit between the PS jack and the CAT5 plug, 
so it could be asilly secured and easilly individually untied in the field. 
We put one extra one inline for hot spare.
Now, we were doing 24v, so You need to confirm the injectors that you 
selected allowed voltage level for Alvarion.

I know the little white half moons, can do 48V no problem.
If the standard 802.11 pin-out isn;t what Alvarion uses, then compensate 
with the pin-out of the Plug crimping on.

We then laid them side by side mounted flat to a plywood strip.
We actually just screwed the Strip to the rack, because we cut it to reach 
19" rack.
It could also be glued to a Nema Box back, with construction plywood roof 
glue.
We cut the height of the strip about 6 inches, so we had 2 inched on top and 
bottom to Staple patch cable in place, with it still having room to unplug. 
IN one case we used screw in eye hooks, and then just strapped the cable to 
the eye hook for strain relief.
We then took standard two strand wire and soldered the round plugs to them 
(the kind that the standard POE required).
We then took two of those standard screw down DC bus bars (can be ordered 
from any electrician or electronic store) with like 8-12 screws on thems, 
and labeled them - and +.  Then of course screwed down the wires to them.
(Just as easilly we could have soldered the eight wires togeather, so all 
the cables were like a 8 cable bundled single unit.)
We then Used a thicker guage wire, I think it was 16-18 guage and ran that 
from the Bud Bar to our dedicated power supply.

(Many power supply types available).

Whether it works is just doing the math of cable Voltage loss, and how much 
amperage the cable can take. See AWG chart attached.
Also see POE calculater at 
http://www.demarctech.com/techsupport/poecalculate.htm
Its importnat to remember that the Voltage loss is different based on the 
amperage that is occuring at the time, so you don;t want to over power 
voltage to compensate for the loss, to the extent that an inactive radio 
would be delviered voltage greater than the radio could accept.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Cameron Kilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount



All of your questions Tom are important and have taken those into
consideration.

Right now, I just want to figure out if anybody has done it and how.

We have made a POE system that puts out 48volt and it works on the bench
with VL units, but when there is a significant cable run it stops
working, I guess the important thing to find out is what is the minimum
and maximum voltage that can be sent to a Alvarion VL or B radio?

-Cameron

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

I have got to put a plug in for the "SuperRMS".  We just installed our
second unit.  Just a great box for doing DC power control (or AC if you
want).  Pricey, but very flexibile and powerful.  Also has temperature,
voltage measurent, alarm contact monitoring, USB port with camera
drivers, alert and relay scripting, linux shell and on and on

http://www.remotemonitoringsystems.ca/rms2/



Tom DeReggi wrote:

There are three questions that come up...

1) Redundancy
2) minimizing impact of failure
3) Ability to remote reboot.

We had chosen to stay with individual AC Adapter POE systems, for the

above

reasons.
The individual AC PS adapter plugged into the AC style Digital Logger

reboot

device.
If a PS fails, only one radio dies, and quick to replace the one PS

for $15.

And if a radio locks up, we can reboot the port via Digital logger.
Whether or not our device is located in the Closet, mid-way on tower,

or way

up the tower, its one standard method to remote access the devi

Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Blake Bowers]

I am an avid AT&T long lines historian.

AT&T made lots of federal money.  Cost plus.  Thats
how most of it worked.  I own some of the big AT&T
junctions that included fall out shelters, blast doors, etc,
as well as many repeater sites.

Those sites were built on tarrifs, that called for their
construction in that manner.  Cost plus.  Where AT&T
really made their money is buying lots of what went into
those sites from their subsidiaries.  Cost plus.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "jp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


>I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of
> AT&T Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for
> federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example
>
> http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html
>
> They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to
> be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to
> survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a
> little with a small community homeland security radio project, AT&T had
> the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking.
>
> If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards
> with fat contracts to a monopoly provider.
>
> I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal
> government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was
> working for that had this contract had bid against AT&T to get it. If
> the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost.
>
> Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary
> cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon.
>
> On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
>> It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open 
>> wire
>> pole lines by himself.
>> He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his
>> system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us government.
>> You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower
>> through money that flows from that program to the general fund.
>>
>> Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by
>> taxes?
>> When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.
>>
>> How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there 
>> was
>> a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same
>> city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax
>> it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>> > Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
>> > Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
>> > utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
>> > that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
>> > than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
>> > I really off base here?
>> > -RickG
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> > wrote:
>> >> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
>> >> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
>> >> You do not have to participate.
>> >> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
>> >> That is not a tax.
>> >>
>> >> - Original Message -
>> >> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> >> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>> >>> wrote:
>>  The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between 
>>  school
>>  districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and 
>>  provider
>>  of
>>  goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not
>>  shown
>>  any
>>  telephone company to be misusing this money.
>> 
>>  And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this 
>>  money
>>  is
>>  from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is
>>  revenue
>>  pooling and re-distribution.
>> 
>>  So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
>>  discussion.
>>  If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing

Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[jp]

I don't know about local stuff, but what I read about the history of 
AT&T Longlines is that it must have been heavily government funded for 
federal defense and communications interests. Here is one example

http://long-lines.net/places-routes/Lyons_NE/index.html

They must have been either richer than the feds or federally funded to 
be able to build their infrastructure to the high standards needed to 
survive nuclear war. If you think someone is milking the government a 
little with a small community homeland security radio project, AT&T had 
the whole milk processing plant metaphorically speaking. 

If the feds didn't build it, surely they rebuilt it to their standards 
with fat contracts to a monopoly provider. 

I have personally built and tested many analog phones for the federal 
government that sold for $1000 each in some cases; the company I was 
working for that had this contract had bid against AT&T to get it. If 
the phones cost that much, I can't imagine that the services cost.

Now RUS is financing Crossroads, a mostly redundant and unnecesary 
cellular network meant to benefit the ILECs who are not verizon. 

On Thu, Oct 09, 2008 at 10:11:27AM -0600, Chuck McCown wrote:
> The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
> It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire 
> pole lines by himself.
> He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his 
> system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us government.
> You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower 
> through money that flows from that program to the general fund.
> 
> Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by 
> taxes?
> When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.
> 
> How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there was 
> a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same 
> city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax 
> it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
> 
> 
> > Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
> > Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
> > utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
> > that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
> > than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
> > I really off base here?
> > -RickG
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
> >> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
> >> You do not have to participate.
> >> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
> >> That is not a tax.
> >>
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "WISPA General List" 
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
> >>
> >>
> >>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
>  districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider 
>  of
>  goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not 
>  shown
>  any
>  telephone company to be misusing this money.
> 
>  And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money 
>  is
>  from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is 
>  revenue
>  pooling and re-distribution.
> 
>  So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
>  discussion.
>  If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at
>  the
>  local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
>  misuse.
>  The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots 
>  service
>  to
>  rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business
>  plan
>  around tapping the USF for all it could get.
> 
> 
> 
>  
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>  http://signup.wispa.org/
>  
> 
>  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
>  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
>  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

[Cameron Kilton]

All of your questions Tom are important and have taken those into
consideration. 

Right now, I just want to figure out if anybody has done it and how. 

We have made a POE system that puts out 48volt and it works on the bench
with VL units, but when there is a significant cable run it stops
working, I guess the important thing to find out is what is the minimum
and maximum voltage that can be sent to a Alvarion VL or B radio? 

-Cameron

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Randy Cosby
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

I have got to put a plug in for the "SuperRMS".  We just installed our 
second unit.  Just a great box for doing DC power control (or AC if you 
want).  Pricey, but very flexibile and powerful.  Also has temperature, 
voltage measurent, alarm contact monitoring, USB port with camera 
drivers, alert and relay scripting, linux shell and on and on

http://www.remotemonitoringsystems.ca/rms2/



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> There are three questions that come up...
> 
> 1) Redundancy
> 2) minimizing impact of failure
> 3) Ability to remote reboot.
> 
> We had chosen to stay with individual AC Adapter POE systems, for the
above 
> reasons.
> The individual AC PS adapter plugged into the AC style Digital Logger
reboot 
> device.
> If a PS fails, only one radio dies, and quick to replace the one PS
for $15.
> And if a radio locks up, we can reboot the port via Digital logger.
> Whether or not our device is located in the Closet, mid-way on tower,
or way 
> up the tower, its one standard method to remote access the devices,
and 
> power them.
> 
> So to run one cetnral power supply to power all radios How will
you 
> remote reboot them? And what will you do if the main Power supply
fails? 
> I'd only recommend doing a shared power supply if it was redundant
with a 
> ready to go spare (two units onsite).  As well, you then need to
convert to 
> a DC based reboot device, and put the relays (or it) inline with the
power 
> to the POE.
> 
> Digital logger also makes a DC based model, with screw down panels.
This 
> device could be your method to combine the DC power.  However not
positive 
> but this model might be 24V.
> http://www.digital-loggers.com/din.html
> .
> I think Alvarions are 54-56V. Side note some of the old MEtrocom
installs 
> had used 54V powersupply power plants. You might be able to find them
used 
> cheap. I know we had picked up a few. (but didn;t have 54V gear)
> 
> 
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Cameron Kilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:29 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount
> 
> 
>> I have a bunch of Stand Alone 5.8 VL AU gear, I want to make a 12
port
>> rack mount power supply for it. Has anybody tried this?
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Cameron Kilton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>


>>
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>>
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> 
> 
> 
>


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-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

office: 435-773-6071





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[WISPA] OT: For the phone guys.

[Scottie Arnett]

We started out as a dial-up ISP and still have some dial-up customers. My 
question: is it right for a telco to charge termination fees on truck side 
channelized T1's? These are not PRI's. I have saw termination fees on data 
lines, but not on channelized. This one telco in particular charges me $212/mth 
just for termination fees. The telco in the next county over does not charge me 
this, nor do a couple of other telcos that I priced with that are surrounding 
this one telco. I have complained but it has not done any good. Just want to 
know if I am getting screwed or not, lol.

Scottie

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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Jory Privett]

My big problem with the USF fund is that it was designed to help 
recover the cost to serve rural communities.  If this is the case 
then why does my rural community not have the same services as the 
metro ones.

I live in an Embarq served area.  They offer Metro E types of service 
in most all of their metro areas  but it is not available in my rural 
area.  Now I know the first response is that requires fiber,  well my 
building has fiber in it for over 3 years  now.  It sits dark not 
being used.   They wont sell me any service that uses it without an 
enormous price tag.

Now if USF is subsidizing them  then every community,  regardless of 
size, should have access to the same types of service  for the same 
cost right?

Jory Privett


- Original Message - 
From: "Tom DeReggi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 1:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Personally, I feel you cant always have your cake and eat it to. 
> Some people
> move to the booneys for a reason.
> If those 30 people really choose to live that far out, do they 
> really need
> broadband?
> I can give an example of myself, where I owned a half mil property 
> where I
> had wanted to live, but it couldn't get broadband. So I lived 10 
> miles down
> the road in the city that had broadband, even though it meant 
> sweezing into
> a much smaller townhome, and duplicate costs. Did I ask the 
> government to
> write me a check for a half mil to get a government funded Fiber 
> line run to
> my little underserved town?  No, I invested a Half mil myself to 
> bring
> broadband to my little town, and now I live happily on my preferred 
> property
> with Broadband. (But it cost my life savings to do it). And was my 
> town of
> 300-1000 any less important than other towns of 30-50, that got a 
> free ride?
>
> My point is two fold
>
> 1) If its important enough, someone will find a way to pay for it
> themselves.
> 2) If its not important enough, someone will make due with their 
> other
> options.
>
> But at no time was there a possibility to waste money on something 
> that had
> a cost far greater than the value received for the services 
> rendered.  I do
> not believe that the needs of a few, is greater than the needs of 
> many, when
> someone can chose where they live.  There are many people that wish 
> they had
> the luxury to live in an isolated place miles away from the hussle 
> and
> bussle, but they make choices based on what is most important to 
> them.
>
> I believe there are both clear Pro and Cons on whether USF is good 
> or bad.
> But most of all, I think the economic development case benefit for 
> the
> situation has to be proven to justify the expendature, and should 
> not merely
> be a gift to a few needy. And I definately question it, when the 
> monies,
> makes it hard for new businesses to complete in areas where it has 
> been
> proven that the public is finanically secure enough that they are 
> capable to
> pay new private businesses for the service.
>
> The core underlying principle for USF is good, which is to help 
> subsidze an
> operation to have long term stabilty, but why is that same mentality 
> not
> shared with other companies that serve underserved clientel in less 
> rural
> areas?  Why is ones' Census population stat the criteria to define 
> who is
> worthy of subsidy, if they are also in need?
>
> The day the government recognizes the other potential markets for 
> needy
> Americans, which are not quite as stringenty defined as Rural, I 
> will be
> much more acceptive of USF subsidees.
>
> In the mean time, I can just say, the providers that qualify, you 
> were smart
> to seize the opportunity that was available to you.
> But that doesn't mean it was fair legislation that enabled it.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Its sort of like the grants I get for my Fire Department.
>>
>> I don't think it is the federal governments place to fund
>> the fire service BUT as long as those grant programs
>> are out there,  it would be a disservice to my patrons
>> for me NOT to take advantage of them.
>>
>> As long as the USF money is there, then the application
>> that Chuck mentioned is a damned good application.  I
>> agree with you also though, it is often misused.
>>
>> Brians statement,
>>
 If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are 
 not
 right in the head...
>>
>> was just misinformed babble.
>>
>> If the USF funds are there, or any such program, so that we can get
>> those 30 folks out there in the middle of nowhere reliable service, 
>> than I
>> feel like it would be a disservice not to pursue those funds, and 
>> to
>> provide
>> that service.
>>
>

Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Tom DeReggi]

It might not be a tax, but its worse than one. It is a program that forces 
consumers to pay more money if they want to use a telephone in 
suburban/urban America, to help fund monoply or ILEC status control in 
underserved markets, instead of foster competition.  The purpose of USF is 
that the underlying principle is ALL people deserve to have phones.  Its not 
a fair ultimatum for a person to have to agree not to have a phone, in order 
to NOT pay USF fees.  Currently, there is no way to "op-out" of paying USF, 
if one maintains their right to a phone.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:55 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
> You do not have to participate.
> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
> That is not a tax.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
>>> districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider 
>>> of
>>> goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not shown
>>> any
>>> telephone company to be misusing this money.
>>>
>>> And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money is
>>> from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is 
>>> revenue
>>> pooling and re-distribution.
>>>
>>> So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
>>> discussion.
>>> If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at
>>> the
>>> local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
>>> misuse.
>>> The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service
>>> to
>>> rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business
>>> plan
>>> around tapping the USF for all it could get.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Tom DeReggi]

Personally, I feel you cant always have your cake and eat it to. Some people 
move to the booneys for a reason.
If those 30 people really choose to live that far out, do they really need 
broadband?
I can give an example of myself, where I owned a half mil property where I 
had wanted to live, but it couldn't get broadband. So I lived 10 miles down 
the road in the city that had broadband, even though it meant sweezing into 
a much smaller townhome, and duplicate costs. Did I ask the government to 
write me a check for a half mil to get a government funded Fiber line run to 
my little underserved town?  No, I invested a Half mil myself to bring 
broadband to my little town, and now I live happily on my preferred property 
with Broadband. (But it cost my life savings to do it). And was my town of 
300-1000 any less important than other towns of 30-50, that got a free ride?

My point is two fold

1) If its important enough, someone will find a way to pay for it 
themselves.
2) If its not important enough, someone will make due with their other 
options.

But at no time was there a possibility to waste money on something that had 
a cost far greater than the value received for the services rendered.  I do 
not believe that the needs of a few, is greater than the needs of many, when 
someone can chose where they live.  There are many people that wish they had 
the luxury to live in an isolated place miles away from the hussle and 
bussle, but they make choices based on what is most important to them.

I believe there are both clear Pro and Cons on whether USF is good or bad. 
But most of all, I think the economic development case benefit for the 
situation has to be proven to justify the expendature, and should not merely 
be a gift to a few needy. And I definately question it, when the monies, 
makes it hard for new businesses to complete in areas where it has been 
proven that the public is finanically secure enough that they are capable to 
pay new private businesses for the service.

The core underlying principle for USF is good, which is to help subsidze an 
operation to have long term stabilty, but why is that same mentality not 
shared with other companies that serve underserved clientel in less rural 
areas?  Why is ones' Census population stat the criteria to define who is 
worthy of subsidy, if they are also in need?

The day the government recognizes the other potential markets for needy 
Americans, which are not quite as stringenty defined as Rural, I will be 
much more acceptive of USF subsidees.

In the mean time, I can just say, the providers that qualify, you were smart 
to seize the opportunity that was available to you.
But that doesn't mean it was fair legislation that enabled it.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Its sort of like the grants I get for my Fire Department.
>
> I don't think it is the federal governments place to fund
> the fire service BUT as long as those grant programs
> are out there,  it would be a disservice to my patrons
> for me NOT to take advantage of them.
>
> As long as the USF money is there, then the application
> that Chuck mentioned is a damned good application.  I
> agree with you also though, it is often misused.
>
> Brians statement,
>
>>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>>> right in the head...
>
> was just misinformed babble.
>
> If the USF funds are there, or any such program, so that we can get
> those 30 folks out there in the middle of nowhere reliable service, than I
> feel like it would be a disservice not to pursue those funds, and to 
> provide
> that service.
>
> If it weren't for programs like that, much of the rural world would
> still not have telephone service, or electric for that matter.
>
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good 
>> idea
>> :-).
>>
>> Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I
>> can't
>> fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>>
>> My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being
>> used
>> to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge
>> one
>> at that.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> Chucks business knowledge has prov

Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

That is a very good link.  I presume anyone that wanted to dip into the USF 
pot filed comments?
I know I did.

- Original Message - 
From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Universal Service Reform and Universal Broadband:
> http://www.benton.org/node/8969
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: Cliff LeBoeuf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:07:12 -0500
>
>>Chuck..."WE" may not cross subsidize, but I bet it would be hard convince
>>all of us that "others" don't.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 10/9/08 11:35 AM, "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> We are still forbidden to cross subsidize.
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:33 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>>
>>>
 The FCC had it right with the Computer Inquiries Acts several years 
 ago.
 The telco and ISP functions had to be seperate entities and their could 
 be
 no cross subsidization. Somewhere along the time that ISP's and 
 internet
 became big buisness, all that went to heck in a hand basket.

 Scottie

 -- Original Message --
 From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 Reply-To: WISPA General List 
 Date:  Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:57:59 -0700

> Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good 
> idea
> :-).
>
> Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I
> can't
> fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>
> My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is 
> being
> used
> to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A 
> huge
> one
> at that.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>> posted mindless babble
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are 
>>> not
>>> right in the head...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
>>> prove
>>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the 
>>> service.
>>> But
>>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in 
>>> a
>>> class
>>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> -
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> ---
>> -
>>
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>>
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>>
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>
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

I'll put it this way, at one telco I know, a disgruntled accountant called 
the State AG office and made a claim of cross subsidizes.  The financial 
crimes division threw the general manager up against the wall in front of 
his board of directors and hand cuffed him and hauled him away.  2 years 
later the investigation was done and nothing was amiss.  Do you think I want 
to risk doing the perp walk?

- Original Message - 
From: "Cliff LeBoeuf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Chuck..."WE" may not cross subsidize, but I bet it would be hard convince
> all of us that "others" don't.
>
>
>
>
> On 10/9/08 11:35 AM, "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> We are still forbidden to cross subsidize.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> The FCC had it right with the Computer Inquiries Acts several years ago.
>>> The telco and ISP functions had to be seperate entities and their could 
>>> be
>>> no cross subsidization. Somewhere along the time that ISP's and internet
>>> became big buisness, all that went to heck in a hand basket.
>>>
>>> Scottie
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>> Date:  Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:57:59 -0700
>>>
 Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good 
 idea
 :-).

 Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I
 can't
 fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.

 My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being
 used
 to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A 
 huge
 one
 at that.
 marlon

 - Original Message -
 From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
> posted mindless babble
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>> right in the head...
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
>> prove
>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the 
>> service.
>> But
>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in 
>> a
>> class
>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>
>
>
>
> ---
> -
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>
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>>>
>>> Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth.
>>> Check out www.info-ed.com for information.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Scottie Arnett]

Universal Service Reform and Universal Broadband:
http://www.benton.org/node/8969

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: Cliff LeBoeuf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:07:12 -0500

>Chuck..."WE" may not cross subsidize, but I bet it would be hard convince
>all of us that "others" don't.
>
>
>
>
>On 10/9/08 11:35 AM, "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> We are still forbidden to cross subsidize.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>> 
>> 
>>> The FCC had it right with the Computer Inquiries Acts several years ago.
>>> The telco and ISP functions had to be seperate entities and their could be
>>> no cross subsidization. Somewhere along the time that ISP's and internet
>>> became big buisness, all that went to heck in a hand basket.
>>> 
>>> Scottie
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>>> Date:  Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:57:59 -0700
>>> 
 Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea
 :-).
 
 Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I
 can't
 fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
 
 My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being
 used
 to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge
 one
 at that.
 marlon
 
 - Original Message -
 From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
 
 
> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
> posted mindless babble
> 
> 
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
> 
> 
>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>> right in the head...
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
>> prove
>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>> But
>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>> class
>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> -
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> ---
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> 
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> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 
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>>> 
>>> Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth.
>>> Check out www.info-ed.com for information.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> ---
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
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>>> 
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>>> 
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> --
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>> --
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>> 
>
>
>Cliff L

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

[Randy Cosby]

I have got to put a plug in for the "SuperRMS".  We just installed our 
second unit.  Just a great box for doing DC power control (or AC if you 
want).  Pricey, but very flexibile and powerful.  Also has temperature, 
voltage measurent, alarm contact monitoring, USB port with camera 
drivers, alert and relay scripting, linux shell and on and on

http://www.remotemonitoringsystems.ca/rms2/



Tom DeReggi wrote:
> There are three questions that come up...
> 
> 1) Redundancy
> 2) minimizing impact of failure
> 3) Ability to remote reboot.
> 
> We had chosen to stay with individual AC Adapter POE systems, for the above 
> reasons.
> The individual AC PS adapter plugged into the AC style Digital Logger reboot 
> device.
> If a PS fails, only one radio dies, and quick to replace the one PS for $15.
> And if a radio locks up, we can reboot the port via Digital logger.
> Whether or not our device is located in the Closet, mid-way on tower, or way 
> up the tower, its one standard method to remote access the devices, and 
> power them.
> 
> So to run one cetnral power supply to power all radios How will you 
> remote reboot them? And what will you do if the main Power supply fails? 
> I'd only recommend doing a shared power supply if it was redundant with a 
> ready to go spare (two units onsite).  As well, you then need to convert to 
> a DC based reboot device, and put the relays (or it) inline with the power 
> to the POE.
> 
> Digital logger also makes a DC based model, with screw down panels.  This 
> device could be your method to combine the DC power.  However not positive 
> but this model might be 24V.
> http://www.digital-loggers.com/din.html
> .
> I think Alvarions are 54-56V. Side note some of the old MEtrocom installs 
> had used 54V powersupply power plants. You might be able to find them used 
> cheap. I know we had picked up a few. (but didn;t have 54V gear)
> 
> 
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Cameron Kilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:29 AM
> Subject: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount
> 
> 
>> I have a bunch of Stand Alone 5.8 VL AU gear, I want to make a 12 port
>> rack mount power supply for it. Has anybody tried this?
>>
>> Thank You,
>> Cameron Kilton
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

office: 435-773-6071




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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Cliff LeBoeuf]

Chuck..."WE" may not cross subsidize, but I bet it would be hard convince
all of us that "others" don't.




On 10/9/08 11:35 AM, "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> We are still forbidden to cross subsidize.
> - Original Message -
> From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
> 
> 
>> The FCC had it right with the Computer Inquiries Acts several years ago.
>> The telco and ISP functions had to be seperate entities and their could be
>> no cross subsidization. Somewhere along the time that ISP's and internet
>> became big buisness, all that went to heck in a hand basket.
>> 
>> Scottie
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
>> Date:  Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:57:59 -0700
>> 
>>> Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea
>>> :-).
>>> 
>>> Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I
>>> can't
>>> fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>>> 
>>> My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being
>>> used
>>> to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge
>>> one
>>> at that.
>>> marlon
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>> 
>>> 
 Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
 I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
 posted mindless babble
 
 
 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
 
 - Original Message -
 From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
 
 
> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
> right in the head...
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
> prove
> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
> But
> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
> class
> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
> 
 
 
 
 ---
 -
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 ---
 -
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> 
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> 
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> ---
>>> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Dial-Up Internet service from Info-Ed, Inc. as low as $9.99/mth.
>> Check out www.info-ed.com for information.
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> ---
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> -
>> ---
>> 
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>> 
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> --
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> --
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> 


Cliff LeBoeuf
985-879-3219
www.cssla.com
www.triparish.net

This e-mail, including any attached files, may contain confidential and
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If you are not the intended recipient (or authorized to receive information
for the intended recipient), please contact the sender by reply e-mail an

Re: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

[Tom DeReggi]

There are three questions that come up...

1) Redundancy
2) minimizing impact of failure
3) Ability to remote reboot.

We had chosen to stay with individual AC Adapter POE systems, for the above 
reasons.
The individual AC PS adapter plugged into the AC style Digital Logger reboot 
device.
If a PS fails, only one radio dies, and quick to replace the one PS for $15.
And if a radio locks up, we can reboot the port via Digital logger.
Whether or not our device is located in the Closet, mid-way on tower, or way 
up the tower, its one standard method to remote access the devices, and 
power them.

So to run one cetnral power supply to power all radios How will you 
remote reboot them? And what will you do if the main Power supply fails? 
I'd only recommend doing a shared power supply if it was redundant with a 
ready to go spare (two units onsite).  As well, you then need to convert to 
a DC based reboot device, and put the relays (or it) inline with the power 
to the POE.

Digital logger also makes a DC based model, with screw down panels.  This 
device could be your method to combine the DC power.  However not positive 
but this model might be 24V.
http://www.digital-loggers.com/din.html
.
I think Alvarions are 54-56V. Side note some of the old MEtrocom installs 
had used 54V powersupply power plants. You might be able to find them used 
cheap. I know we had picked up a few. (but didn;t have 54V gear)



Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Cameron Kilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:29 AM
Subject: [WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount


>I have a bunch of Stand Alone 5.8 VL AU gear, I want to make a 12 port
> rack mount power supply for it. Has anybody tried this?
>
> Thank You,
> Cameron Kilton
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Cliff LeBoeuf]

The hell it ain't a tax! It is "taxing" on my buying power! :)

Also, wouldn't it fit in this definition?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax

A tax "is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution,
exacted pursuant to legislative authority" and is "any contribution imposed
by government [Š] whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel,
impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name."[1]






On 10/9/08 10:55 AM, "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
> You do not have to participate.
> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
> That is not a tax.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
> 
> 
>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
>>> districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of
>>> goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not shown
>>> any
>>> telephone company to be misusing this money.
>>> 
>>> And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money is
>>> from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is revenue
>>> pooling and re-distribution.
>>> 
>>> So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
>>> discussion.
>>> If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at
>>> the
>>> local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
>>> misuse.
>>> The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service
>>> to
>>> rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business
>>> plan
>>> around tapping the USF for all it could get.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
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> 
> 
> 
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Cliff LeBoeuf
985-879-3219
www.cssla.com
www.triparish.net

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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Cliff LeBoeuf]

The "government" doesn't pay for anything. "WE" do the citizens who pay
taxes...


On 10/9/08 10:29 AM, "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hold your horses there Marlon... the government pays... the government pays
> for USF???
> No, it is industry supported.  100% of the revenue comes from
> telecommunications companies and is returned to telecommunications
> companies.
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
> 
> 
>> Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea
>> :-).
>> 
>> Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I
>> can't
>> fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>> 
>> My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being
>> used
>> to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge
>> one
>> at that.
>> marlon
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>> 
>> 
>>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>>> posted mindless babble
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>> 
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>> 
>>> 
 If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
 right in the head...
 
 
 
 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
 It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
 prove
 that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
 But
 think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
 class
 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> 
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> 
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> ---
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> 
> 
> 
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Cliff LeBoeuf
985-879-3219
www.cssla.com
www.triparish.net

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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Randy Cosby]

Chuck McCown wrote:
> It is like sausage.
...
> It is private enterprise socialism administered by the federal govt.

As opposed to "what the market will bear" decisions we evil capitalists 
prefer ;)

Randy



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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Blake Bowers]

Reading the post makes all the difference.

I never NEVER said Marlon babbled.  NEVER.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> I'll stand up for Marlon here: He is a veteran WISP'er and I have
> never seen him post "babble" let alone "mindless". I worked for a
> phone company - it is a racket. -RickG
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Blake Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>> posted mindless babble
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>>> right in the head...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to 
>>> prove
>>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>>> But
>>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>>> class
>>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

It is like sausage.
(this a gross oversimplification, there are whole industries of cost 
consultants that specialize in doing the accounting for telephone companies)
We have 5 main categories of expense.
Interstate to interstate
Interstate to interLATA
interLATA to Interstate
InterLATA to interLATA
and Local.

Every nut bolt, washer, time sheet minute and paper cup is accounted for and 
allocated to those expense categories.
If you really want to see the whole chart of accounts go to :47 CFR 32

In the case of the state funds and auditors, they actually come out and do 
things like climb on the roof to see the new air conditioner and to decide 
if you bought one that is too expensive.

We track EVERYTHING.  Then the actual cost of providing each of those 
categories of service is divided by the number of minutes (in the case of 
toll calls) or the number of subscribers (in the case of local service) and 
a revenue requirement figure is generated.

For interstate, we are allowed to earn our revenue requirement plus 11.5% of 
our investment in toll facilities.  In the event that we don't make that 
much money, then the shortage is made up from USF and NECA high cost pools. 
It is private enterprise socialism administered by the federal govt.

- Original Message - 
From: "Randy Cosby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Chuck,
>
> Moving off the debate topic a little, I do have an honest question (not
> baiting, I promise) I was wondering if you could shed some light on.
> Maybe the answer is much longer than can be explained on the list.
>
> How is USF contribution calculated?  If I recall, it changes from time
> to time, and seems to be different from company to company.  Just
> curious who decides how much it is and what factors come into the
> calculation?
>
> thanks,
>
> Randy
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

We are still forbidden to cross subsidize.
- Original Message - 
From: "Scottie Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> The FCC had it right with the Computer Inquiries Acts several years ago. 
> The telco and ISP functions had to be seperate entities and their could be 
> no cross subsidization. Somewhere along the time that ISP's and internet 
> became big buisness, all that went to heck in a hand basket.
>
> Scottie
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: WISPA General List 
> Date:  Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:57:59 -0700
>
>>Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea
>>:-).
>>
>>Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I 
>>can't
>>fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>>
>>My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being 
>>used
>>to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge 
>>one
>>at that.
>>marlon
>>
>>- Original Message - 
>>From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: "WISPA General List" 
>>Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
>>Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>>> posted mindless babble
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>>
>>>
 If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
 right in the head...



 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
 It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
 prove
 that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
 But
 think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
 class
 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

No, AT&T and smaller independents made money.  They were profitable.  They 
used profits to grow their company, just like you did.
At some point AT&T was forced to share some of its profit with the smaller 
companies to help them be profitable as well.  Then the rural 
electrification administration was created as part of the New Deal and 
government loans were made available so that local power co-ops could be 
built.  They were profitable too and those loans were all repaid.  Later the 
program was expanded to the telephone companies to incent them to build 
where there was no service.

The government never returned any of the tax money to Ma Bell or the 
independents.  They bootstrapped with the assistance of loan programs.  The 
system was in no way built with tax dollars.  And that is still true today.


- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Chuck, I was speaking about more recent times, not the origination of
> the system and it's beginnings. What I am referring to is exactly what
> you said is - "Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly
> and to tax it". The current phone system was "built out" with much
> funding coming from tax dollars. With that said, the American tax
> payer has paid for the network and continues to pay, correct?
> -RickG
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
>> It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open 
>> wire
>> pole lines by himself.
>> He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his
>> system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us government.
>> You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower
>> through money that flows from that program to the general fund.
>>
>> Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by
>> taxes?
>> When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.
>>
>> How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there 
>> was
>> a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same
>> city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax
>> it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
>>> Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
>>> utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
>>> that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
>>> than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
>>> I really off base here?
>>> -RickG
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
 Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
 You do not have to participate.
 Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
 That is not a tax.

 - Original Message -
 From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: "WISPA General List" 
 Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
>> The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between 
>> school
>> districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and 
>> provider
>> of
>> goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not
>> shown
>> any
>> telephone company to be misusing this money.
>>
>> And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money
>> is
>> from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is
>> revenue
>> pooling and re-distribution.
>>
>> So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
>> discussion.
>> If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing 
>> at
>> the
>> local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
>> misuse.
>> The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots
>> service
>> to
>> rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a 
>> business
>> plan
>> around tapping the USF for all it could get.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Scottie Arnett]

The FCC had it right with the Computer Inquiries Acts several years ago. The 
telco and ISP functions had to be seperate entities and their could be no cross 
subsidization. Somewhere along the time that ISP's and internet became big 
buisness, all that went to heck in a hand basket.

Scottie

-- Original Message --
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: WISPA General List 
Date:  Thu, 9 Oct 2008 07:57:59 -0700

>Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea 
>:-).
>
>Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I can't 
>fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>
>My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used 
>to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge one 
>at that.
>marlon
>
>- Original Message - 
>From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "WISPA General List" 
>Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>> posted mindless babble
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>>> right in the head...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to 
>>> prove
>>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>>> But
>>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>>> class
>>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
>
>
>
>
>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>http://signup.wispa.org/
>
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>
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[RickG]

Chuck, I was speaking about more recent times, not the origination of
the system and it's beginnings. What I am referring to is exactly what
you said is - "Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly
and to tax it". The current phone system was "built out" with much
funding coming from tax dollars. With that said, the American tax
payer has paid for the network and continues to pay, correct?
-RickG

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:11 PM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
> It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire
> pole lines by himself.
> He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his
> system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us government.
> You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower
> through money that flows from that program to the general fund.
>
> Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by
> taxes?
> When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.
>
> How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there was
> a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same
> city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax
> it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
>> Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
>> utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
>> that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
>> than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
>> I really off base here?
>> -RickG
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
>>> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
>>> You do not have to participate.
>>> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
>>> That is not a tax.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>>
>>>
 Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG

 On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
> districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider
> of
> goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not
> shown
> any
> telephone company to be misusing this money.
>
> And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money
> is
> from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is
> revenue
> pooling and re-distribution.
>
> So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
> discussion.
> If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at
> the
> local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
> misuse.
> The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots
> service
> to
> rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business
> plan
> around tapping the USF for all it could get.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>


 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> Archive

Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Randy Cosby]

Chuck,

Moving off the debate topic a little, I do have an honest question (not 
baiting, I promise) I was wondering if you could shed some light on. 
Maybe the answer is much longer than can be explained on the list.

How is USF contribution calculated?  If I recall, it changes from time 
to time, and seems to be different from company to company.  Just 
curious who decides how much it is and what factors come into the 
calculation?

thanks,

Randy



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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

Sour Grapes

If you want USF go get some e rate or file to become a telephone company and 
serve places like Dangling Rope, Utah.
I see continual whining by WISPS about USF and RUS funds.  Folks, you can 
get those dollars if you want.
Just like doctors can get medicare dollars if they want to go to the effort.
(Now theres a racket, and you are forced into paying for that one).

WISPs are the johnny come lately gang to the telecom scene.  CLECs were all 
whining about the exact same things 15 years ago.  Then they figured out how 
to get RUS and USF or they died.  Most of them died.

Why not complain about all the mining claims on federal land?  You are not 
benefitting from those either.

Just because some people (or more likely their ancestors) filed for 
territory and became ILECs and you didn't doesn't make them and their 
funding program bad and doesn't oppress or shortchange you.


- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> I'll stand up for Marlon here: He is a veteran WISP'er and I have
> never seen him post "babble" let alone "mindless". I worked for a
> phone company - it is a racket. -RickG
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Blake Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>> posted mindless babble
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>>> right in the head...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to 
>>> prove
>>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>>> But
>>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>>> class
>>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

The phone system was not developed by tax dollars.
It was developed by guys like Art Brothers who hand built miles of open wire 
pole lines by himself.
He later got loans from the REA (later to become the RUS) to improve his 
system.  A program that serves as a profit center for the us government.
You all should be thanking the RUS for making your income tax bill lower 
through money that flows from that program to the general fund.

Do you really think Ma Bell was not profitable and had to be supported by 
taxes?
When I think of blue chip stock, I think of the old AT&T.

How was the phone system developed by tax dollars?  120 years ago there was 
a boom in telecommunications with in some cases multiple LECs in the same 
city.  Government regulation stepped in to create the monopoly and to tax 
it.  But they did not build the bell system or any of the independents.


- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
> Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
> utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
> that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
> than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
> I really off base here?
> -RickG
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
>> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
>> You do not have to participate.
>> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
>> That is not a tax.
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
 districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider 
 of
 goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not 
 shown
 any
 telephone company to be misusing this money.

 And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money 
 is
 from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is 
 revenue
 pooling and re-distribution.

 So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
 discussion.
 If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at
 the
 local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
 misuse.
 The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots 
 service
 to
 rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business
 plan
 around tapping the USF for all it could get.



 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[RickG]

Chuck, so your definition of a "tax" is if you are forced to pay?
Keeping in mind that the phone system was developed as a public
utility by tax dollars that we all were forced to pay. IMO, that means
that we should be able use it without being encumbered by fees other
than what are necessary to support the system is was designed for. Am
I really off base here?
-RickG

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
> Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
> You do not have to participate.
> Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
> That is not a tax.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
>>> districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of
>>> goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not shown
>>> any
>>> telephone company to be misusing this money.
>>>
>>> And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money is
>>> from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is revenue
>>> pooling and re-distribution.
>>>
>>> So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this
>>> discussion.
>>> If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at
>>> the
>>> local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the
>>> misuse.
>>> The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service
>>> to
>>> rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business
>>> plan
>>> around tapping the USF for all it could get.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

Use magic jack, ham radio, smoke signals, skype or the post office.
Your telephone bill comes from a commercial enterprise.
You do not have to participate.
Therefore you are not forced to pay into our charity program.
That is not a tax.

- Original Message - 
From: "RickG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
>> districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of
>> goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not shown 
>> any
>> telephone company to be misusing this money.
>>
>> And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money is
>> from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is revenue
>> pooling and re-distribution.
>>
>> So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this 
>> discussion.
>> If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at 
>> the
>> local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the 
>> misuse.
>> The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service 
>> to
>> rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business 
>> plan
>> around tapping the USF for all it could get.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[RickG]

I'll stand up for Marlon here: He is a veteran WISP'er and I have
never seen him post "babble" let alone "mindless". I worked for a
phone company - it is a racket. -RickG

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Blake Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
> posted mindless babble
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>> right in the head...
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to prove
>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>> But
>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>> class
>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Jeff Broadwick]

I think that's a distinction without a difference.  If the government
requires the collection of the funds, then it is a "tax" even if they don't
actually collect or hold the money.  The government controls the
distribution of the funds, either directly or through regulations.  It's a
government program one way or the other.

Please keep in mind, I'm not saying you shouldn't use it...I would if I were
in your shoes.

Jeff 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 11:29 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF

Hold your horses there Marlon... the government pays... the government pays
for USF???
No, it is industry supported.  100% of the revenue comes from
telecommunications companies and is returned to telecommunications
companies.

- Original Message -
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea
> :-).
>
> Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I 
> can't
> fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>
> My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being 
> used
> to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge 
> one
> at that.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>> posted mindless babble
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>>> right in the head...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
>>> prove
>>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>>> But
>>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>>> class
>>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>


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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[RickG]

Tacking a fee on my telephone bill is a form of taxation. -RickG

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 11:34 AM, Chuck McCown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school
> districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of
> goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not shown any
> telephone company to be misusing this money.
>
> And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money is
> from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is revenue
> pooling and re-distribution.
>
> So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this discussion.
> If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the
> local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the misuse.
> The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to
> rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business plan
> around tapping the USF for all it could get.
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Mike Hammett]

It is not supported by a government tax, but it is supported by a varying 
fee that a private company charges and the government requires you to pay. 
That's a tax wearing a mask.

I support the need for USF, but the situation Marlon describes is crap.  I 
can't get a landline here for $30 (70 miles from Chicago), but BFE can get 
landline and high speed Internet for $30 because of USF funds.  USF should 
absorb some of the cost, but not to a point where USF services are less 
expensive than non-USF services.  People in rural areas should pay somewhere 
between urban price and true cost, closer to urban.  I would fully expect to 
pay $50 for a landline in a remote area while the true cost was...  $1000 or 
$1.

I have a MAJOR beef with the fact that I am required to pay into USF as a 
VoIP provider (though I don't do enough revenue to be required to file), but 
I am not allowed to be funded by USF.  That is crap.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Chuck McCown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 10:28 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF

> The USF is solvent, it not supported by tax dollars and does its job in
> getting phone service to every last barn and sagebrush that needs it.
> I would say it works better than the mortgage banking industry, social
> security or the national budget...
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> In all honesty, it's turned into quite a scam hasn't it.  About is 
>> rampant
>> from what I see.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:15 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
>>> prove
>>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>>> But
>>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>>> class
>>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>>
>>> You are right, I do love USF!!!
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:29 PM
>>> Subject: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>>
>>>
 Just had a dilup customer quit.  She went to DSL.

 $14.95 for internet and $14.95 for phone line.  $29.90 for both!  This
 was
 NOT an introductory rate.  Good for life.  She called to double check
 that
 after we warned her.

 Depending on who you listen to Century Tel gets $60 to $109 per month 
 in
 subsidies out here.  Per phone line.

 Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USF supposed to be a cost
 recovery
 mechanism?  If the telco can drop their drawers that far down it
 seems
 to me that USF has been kicking in a bit too much of late.

 The older I get the more I hate my government and what it's doing to 
 us!
 marlon



 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

The current USF audits by USAC are turning up collusion between school 
districts (the principle is the brother of the local ISP) and provider of 
goods and services of E-rate funded projects.  The audits have not shown any 
telephone company to be misusing this money.

And I want to repeat, this is not taxpayer money.  Most of this money is 
from a charge tacked onto the bills of the RBOC customers.  It is revenue 
pooling and re-distribution.

So, lets back off the "misuse by telephone company" tone of this discussion. 
If we want to point fingers, you will find the fingers are pointing at the 
local networking and ISP companies.  That is the major source of the misuse. 
The second is cell phone companies claiming to be providing pots service to 
rural customers via tellular units.  Western Wireless built a business plan 
around tapping the USF for all it could get.




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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

Hold your horses there Marlon... the government pays... the government pays 
for USF???
No, it is industry supported.  100% of the revenue comes from 
telecommunications companies and is returned to telecommunications 
companies.

- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea
> :-).
>
> Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I 
> can't
> fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>
> My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being 
> used
> to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge 
> one
> at that.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>> posted mindless babble
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>>> right in the head...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
>>> prove
>>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>>> But
>>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>>> class
>>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Chuck McCown]

The USF is solvent, it not supported by tax dollars and does its job in 
getting phone service to every last barn and sagebrush that needs it.
I would say it works better than the mortgage banking industry, social 
security or the national budget...

- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> In all honesty, it's turned into quite a scam hasn't it.  About is rampant
> from what I see.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to 
>> prove
>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>> But
>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>> class
>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>
>> You are right, I do love USF!!!
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:29 PM
>> Subject: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> Just had a dilup customer quit.  She went to DSL.
>>>
>>> $14.95 for internet and $14.95 for phone line.  $29.90 for both!  This
>>> was
>>> NOT an introductory rate.  Good for life.  She called to double check
>>> that
>>> after we warned her.
>>>
>>> Depending on who you listen to Century Tel gets $60 to $109 per month in
>>> subsidies out here.  Per phone line.
>>>
>>> Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USF supposed to be a cost
>>> recovery
>>> mechanism?  If the telco can drop their drawers that far down it
>>> seems
>>> to me that USF has been kicking in a bit too much of late.
>>>
>>> The older I get the more I hate my government and what it's doing to us!
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
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>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Jeromie Reeves]

Also, as stated by my local telco when they did this, the cost was in
trenching, not in fiber. There was less then a 20% difference between
the copper and the fiber. The rest of the project, digging, trenching,
pulling, was the same no matter what they did.

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 3:17 PM, Blake Bowers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Its sort of like the grants I get for my Fire Department.
>
> I don't think it is the federal governments place to fund
> the fire service BUT as long as those grant programs
> are out there,  it would be a disservice to my patrons
> for me NOT to take advantage of them.
>
> As long as the USF money is there, then the application
> that Chuck mentioned is a damned good application.  I
> agree with you also though, it is often misused.
>
> Brians statement,
>
>>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>>> right in the head...
>
> was just misinformed babble.
>
> If the USF funds are there, or any such program, so that we can get
> those 30 folks out there in the middle of nowhere reliable service, than I
> feel like it would be a disservice not to pursue those funds, and to provide
> that service.
>
> If it weren't for programs like that, much of the rural world would
> still not have telephone service, or electric for that matter.
>
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:57 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea
>> :-).
>>
>> Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I
>> can't
>> fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>>
>> My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being
>> used
>> to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge
>> one
>> at that.
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>>> posted mindless babble
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>>
>>>
 If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
 right in the head...



 Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
 It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
 prove
 that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
 But
 think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
 class
 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Blake Bowers]

Its sort of like the grants I get for my Fire Department.

I don't think it is the federal governments place to fund
the fire service BUT as long as those grant programs
are out there,  it would be a disservice to my patrons
for me NOT to take advantage of them.

As long as the USF money is there, then the application
that Chuck mentioned is a damned good application.  I
agree with you also though, it is often misused.

Brians statement,

>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>> right in the head...

was just misinformed babble.

If the USF funds are there, or any such program, so that we can get
those 30 folks out there in the middle of nowhere reliable service, than I
feel like it would be a disservice not to pursue those funds, and to provide
that service.

If it weren't for programs like that, much of the rural world would
still not have telephone service, or electric for that matter.



Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea
> :-).
>
> Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I 
> can't
> fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.
>
> My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being 
> used
> to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge 
> one
> at that.
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
>> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
>> posted mindless babble
>>
>>
>> Don't take your organs to heaven,
>> heaven knows we need them down here!
>> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>>
>>
>>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>>> right in the head...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to
>>> prove
>>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>>> But
>>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>>> class
>>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Just because the government will pay for it in no way makes it a good idea 
:-).

Chuck is good at working the system as it exists for his industry.  I can't 
fault him (too much) for that.  I wish I were in a similar situation.

My frustration isn't that USF exists as much as it is that USF is being used 
to give my competitor a government backed competitive advantage.  A huge one 
at that.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Blake Bowers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
> I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
> posted mindless babble
>
>
> Don't take your organs to heaven,
> heaven knows we need them down here!
> Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
>> right in the head...
>>
>>
>>
>> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
>> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to 
>> prove
>> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.
>> But
>> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a
>> class
>> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Marlon K. Schafer]

In all honesty, it's turned into quite a scam hasn't it.  About is rampant 
from what I see.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck McCown - 3" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 9:15 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to prove
> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. 
> But
> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a 
> class
> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>
> You are right, I do love USF!!!
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:29 PM
> Subject: [WISPA] gotta love USF
>
>
>> Just had a dilup customer quit.  She went to DSL.
>>
>> $14.95 for internet and $14.95 for phone line.  $29.90 for both!  This 
>> was
>> NOT an introductory rate.  Good for life.  She called to double check 
>> that
>> after we warned her.
>>
>> Depending on who you listen to Century Tel gets $60 to $109 per month in
>> subsidies out here.  Per phone line.
>>
>> Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USF supposed to be a cost 
>> recovery
>> mechanism?  If the telco can drop their drawers that far down it 
>> seems
>> to me that USF has been kicking in a bit too much of late.
>>
>> The older I get the more I hate my government and what it's doing to us!
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Jerry Richardson]

Not if USF is covering the difference.
 
 
 
__ 
Jerry Richardson 
airCloud Communications
 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 7:24 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
right in the head...



Chuck McCown - 3 wrote: 

It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this
year to prove 
that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the
service.  But 
think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and
put in a class 
5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.

You are right, I do love USF!!!

- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 
To: "WISPA General List" 
 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: [WISPA] gotta love USF


  

Just had a dilup customer quit.  She went to DSL.

$14.95 for internet and $14.95 for phone line.  $29.90
for both!  This was
NOT an introductory rate.  Good for life.  She called to
double check that
after we warned her.

Depending on who you listen to Century Tel gets $60 to
$109 per month in
subsidies out here.  Per phone line.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USF supposed to
be a cost recovery
mechanism?  If the telco can drop their drawers that
far down it seems
to me that USF has been kicking in a bit too much of
late.

The older I get the more I hate my government and what
it's doing to us!
marlon






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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Blake Bowers]

Chucks business knowledge has proven to be right on so far,
I suspect you don't have a clue about the situation and therefore
posted mindless babble


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF


> If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not 
> right in the head...
>
>
>
> Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:
> It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to prove
> that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service. 
> But
> think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a 
> class
> 5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.
>




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Re: [WISPA] gotta love USF!!!!

[Brian Rohrbacher]

If you are running a hundred miles of fiber for 30 people you are not
right in the head...



Chuck McCown - 3 wrote:

  It is a cost recovery mechanism.  I got audited by USAC this year to prove 
that the USF we receive is to cover the costs of providing the service.  But 
think how expensive it is to run a hundred miles of fiber and put in a class 
5 switch to serve 30 or 50 customers.

You are right, I do love USF!!!

- Original Message - 
From: "Marlon K. Schafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:29 PM
Subject: [WISPA] gotta love USF


  
  
Just had a dilup customer quit.  She went to DSL.

$14.95 for internet and $14.95 for phone line.  $29.90 for both!  This was
NOT an introductory rate.  Good for life.  She called to double check that
after we warned her.

Depending on who you listen to Century Tel gets $60 to $109 per month in
subsidies out here.  Per phone line.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't USF supposed to be a cost recovery
mechanism?  If the telco can drop their drawers that far down it seems
to me that USF has been kicking in a bit too much of late.

The older I get the more I hate my government and what it's doing to us!
marlon




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[WISPA] Alvarion VL Rackmount

[Cameron Kilton]

I have a bunch of Stand Alone 5.8 VL AU gear, I want to make a 12 port
rack mount power supply for it. Has anybody tried this? 

Thank You,
Cameron Kilton





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Re: [WISPA] Rackmount PoE

[Mike Hammett]

I'm looking for something like this:

http://www.panduit.com/stellent/images/panduit/standard/N%23DPoE24U1X-lb.jpg

It was hard to see in that picture what was going on.


--
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 6:30 PM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rackmount PoE

> Something like the picture attached?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick Harnish
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Rogelio
> Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2008 7:05 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Rackmount PoE
>
> Mike Hammett wrote:
>> Does anyone have any recommendations for rackmounted PoE injectors?  I 
>> was
> looking at a Panduit PoE injecting 24 port patch panel, but I imagine
> that'll cost an arm and a leg.  I'm not sure how many I'll need, but I'm
> guessing around 30.
>
> Good question.  I'm looking for something along those lines, as well.
>
> Up to this point, I've just used loose ones that I've nailed to the
> wall.  Tacky, I know, but pretty much all I had to work with.
>
> (Mike, please let me know if you find anything that works for you)
>
>
> 
> 
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