Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports

[Blair Davis]

But, can it be repaired cost effectively?  

I have blown RouterBoard 532's, 230's, 112's, 133's as well as soekris
and pc engines SBC's, and lucent/orinoco gear.

How about the diversity switch on the UBNT sr2 and sr5 cards?

Butch Evans wrote:

  On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 22:24 -0400, Scott Carullo wrote:
  
  
Man I thrown a bunch of these out. Have to dig through my trash now lol

  
  
I posted a message SEVERAL days ago about these repairs.  We can repair
ANY routerboard, UBNT devices (Nanostations, bullets, power stations,
etc.), Canopy...  

  
  
I'm curious if I were to use say an RB433 would it be 
any more resilient to close lightning strikes? 

  
  
Not really.  The problem is due to poor grounding (the board design, not
necessarily your work).  Either way, nearly ANY board can be repaired.
It doesn't matter if it powers up or not.  

  







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Patrick Shoemaker]

Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will 
be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues. 
However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency 
power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict 
requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and 
fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer, 
you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power 
from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of 
their tenants for phone systems, etc.

Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and 
place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery 
capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the 
rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.


Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Tom DeReggi wrote:
> While on the topic of generators.
> 
> Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial 
> Multi-tenant buildings.
> 
> Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed on 
> roofs, for fire safety reasons.
> Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain generators.
> 
> What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get installed 
> in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof?
> 
> If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get 
> re-fueled easilly?
> Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new tanks 
> swapped (like a gas grill).?
> Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level?
> Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground level, and run AC 
> wire up to the roof level?
> Do propain gas trucks have long enough hoses to reach rooms inside parking 
> garages? Not likely will fit driving into parking garage?
> 
> Do property owners worry about propain blowing up, and have limits to where 
> the tanks can be placed?
> 
> I'm sure some of this is in local building code.  And I can probably best 
> guess some of the answers for above.
> 
> But what re other people doing, to both install and maintain at the lowest 
> dollar cost.?
> 
> I saw those Generac propain models before, and they are very affordable. 
> Just wondering if feasible to install them on roofs/penthouses.
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
> 
> 
>> Thank you,
>> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a UPS.
>>
>> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less and be 
>> far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the batteries @ 
>> 24VDC.
>>
>> Thanks again
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Gary Garrett
>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>
>> Small generators do not auto start very reliably.
>> When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat and
>> burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines,
>> propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can be
>> REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing
>> conditions.
>> Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase. (1955
>> Model)
>> The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times. Everything is
>> adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the
>> Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a
>> huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended.
>>
>> You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not
>> starting and get it fixed.
>>
>> Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it does 
>>> not start reliably.
>>>
>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need to 
>>> power a CMMmicro - ~100watts.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __
>>> Jerry Richardson
>>> airCloud Communications
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>> 
>> 

Re: [WISPA] Tower standoff or not question

[lakeland]

A good reason to mount your antennas on standoffs is so guys like me don't have 
to climb around them.

:-)

-B-
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: "Tom DeReggi" 

Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 23:34:13 
To: ; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Tower standoff  or not question


My understanding was that an electrical field of about 10" wide from the 
tower leg, was likely to flow down it, if ever hit.
One purpose of offsetting the antenna greater than 1ft out was to solve 
that.  As well as purposes to increase seperation between antennas at same 
horizontal plain, as well as avoid tower leg if an Omni.

Although, we have mounted almost all our antennas to the tower legs just 
fine, with no problems.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Carullo" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:10 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Tower standoff or not question


>
> New commercial tower we will be setting up gear on, about 325ft up on a
> 400ft tower.
>
>>From a lightning perspective does it matter whether you install on the
> tower legs themselves or on say 2-3ft standoffs?
>
> We were asked to reduce weight and just install on the legs (the gear can
> attach no problem).  I'd just like to know if there are any unforeseen
> electrical consequences.  Thanks.
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] Redline AN80i latest firmware

[Eric Muehleisen]

If you have the latest please send offlist with documentation if you 
have it.

Thanks,
-Eric



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Marlon K. Schafer]

They'll charge a car.  Those have some load on them when just sitting

I'd say that those questions would be best asked of the manufacturer you 
plan to use.

marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Carullo" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 5:05 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator


> Can you use a battery charger to essentially run your load from?
>
> Also will that load cause a smart charger to act not so smart because
> of the load on it?
>
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> (321) 205-1100 x102
>
> On Aug 2, 2009, at 4:30 PM, "Marlon K. Schafer" 
> wrote:
>
>> How long do you need to power it for?
>>
>> I'd suggest that this may be a great case for a couple of big
>> batteries and
>> an inverter.  Just run the system off of the inverter all of the time,
>> install a smart battery charger to keep the batteries properly
>> charged.
>>
>> Cheaper than a generator, NO switch time.  Ever.
>>
>> laters,
>> marlon
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Jerry Richardson" 
>> To: "Motorola Canopy User Group" ; "WISPA
>> General List"
>> 
>> Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:34 AM
>> Subject: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>
>>
>>> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it
>>> does
>>> not start reliably.
>>>
>>> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need
>>> to power
>>> a CMMmicro - ~100watts.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __
>>> Jerry Richardson
>>> airCloud Communications
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> --- 
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[jp]

The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a pain.

On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which  
> includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic transfer  
> switch. Add the batteries and you're done.
> 
> Greg
> 
> On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
> 
> > Thank you,
> > That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a  
> > UPS.
> >
> > A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less  
> > and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the  
> > batteries @ 24VDC.
> >
> > Thanks again
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
> > On Behalf Of Gary Garrett
> > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
> >
> > Small generators do not auto start very reliably.
> > When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat  
> > and
> > burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines,
> > propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can  
> > be
> > REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing
> > conditions.
> > Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase.  
> > (1955
> > Model)
> > The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times.  
> > Everything is
> > adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the
> > Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a
> > huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended.
> >
> > You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not
> > starting and get it fixed.
> >
> > Jerry Richardson wrote:
> >> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it  
> >> does not start reliably.
> >>
> >> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need  
> >> to power a CMMmicro - ~100watts.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> __
> >> Jerry Richardson
> >> airCloud Communications
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
/*
Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
*/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports

[RickG]

Another issue: when cards are blown, does it weaken the other
componets thereby creating a possible issue shortly after it is put
back into service?
-RickG

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:25 AM, Blair Davis wrote:
> But, can it be repaired cost effectively?
>
> I have blown RouterBoard 532's, 230's, 112's, 133's as well as soekris and
> pc engines SBC's, and lucent/orinoco gear.
>
> How about the diversity switch on the UBNT sr2 and sr5 cards?
>
> Butch Evans wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2009-07-31 at 22:24 -0400, Scott Carullo wrote:
>
>
> Man I thrown a bunch of these out. Have to dig through my trash now lol
>
>
> I posted a message SEVERAL days ago about these repairs.  We can repair
> ANY routerboard, UBNT devices (Nanostations, bullets, power stations,
> etc.), Canopy...
>
>
>
> I'm curious if I were to use say an RB433 would it be
> any more resilient to close lightning strikes?
>
>
> Not really.  The problem is due to poor grounding (the board design, not
> necessarily your work).  Either way, nearly ANY board can be repaired.
> It doesn't matter if it powers up or not.
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports

[jp]

I would stop using something if I had that many failures a month, even 
for that many subscribers. You'll have replaced your whole subscriber 
base in three years at that rate, even if the customer didn't need the 
upgrade. Or half of them in 18 months. The 433 is is probably less 
expensive than a service call + rb411. I've not bought a single 411 
because I've heard of this problem. I do buy lots of 433ah's though.

I've got some radios out in the field that close to 10 years old now. I 
do expect 5-6 years out of a radio on average, even if I pay for it in 
1-3. Our guys can only handle so many service calls and miles of travel 
a day. We use mostly Trango and Alvarion radios, and 100ish MT routers. 
We dispose of a couple of each type of radio, and maybe 1 RB a month for 
about twice as many subs.


On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 10:26:28AM -0400, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> The chip on the 411 is different than the one on the 433, the 433 has a
> switch chip built in.  We could probably repair the 433/450 as well, but
> the chip to repair/replace is significantly more expensive.  I have not
> seen as many issues with the 433's blowing, but we seem to blow about
> 10-20 411's a month out of 700 or so subs using them.
> 
> Regards,
> Chuck Hogg
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com
> http://www.shelbybb.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Scott Carullo
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:24 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports
> 
> Man I thrown a bunch of these out. Have to dig through my trash now lol
> 
> I assume its the same deal with eth ports on RB450G and others?
> 
> Question - Its funny your subject listed the RB411.  I have had LOTS of 
> RB411 eth ports blown.  Obviously I'm not the only one or this thread
> would 
> not have started.  Do you all see the same problems on other
> routerboards 
> or just the RB411?  I'm curious if I were to use say an RB433 would it
> be 
> any more resilient to close lightning strikes?  I'd gladly start using
> them 
> or whatever else might work.  I do have lots of 532's and 133's and they
> do 
> not seem to have this problem, but I have more RB411's so it could be
> just 
> statistics...
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
> 
>  Original Message 
> > From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:07 PM
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Subject: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports
> > 
> > If you have any RB/411's that boot up, but have blown Ethernet ports,
> I
> > will buy them from you.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > $5/board if you don't want it back
> > 
> > $20/board if you would like it repaired and sent back to you.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Some boards that we have been receiving cannot be repaired due to a
> > direct lightning strike.  They must be bootable, but without link.
> > Please contact me off-list for further details.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Chuck Hogg
> > 
> > Shelby Broadband
> > 502-722-9292
> > ch...@shelbybb.com
> > 
> > http://www.shelbybb.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> >  
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > 
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > 
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

-- 
/*
Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
*/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Un

[WISPA] Mounting a dish on a Rohn 9N

[Mike]

I need to mount a 2' dish close to the top of a Rohn 9N tower.  The 
tower steel is not very large in diameter that high, and I already 
have another dish mounted on the pipe coming out the top of the 
taper.  So, I need to mount it to the side.

The mounts for the dish and radome will accommodate 1 1/2 at the smallest.

What are you guys using as a pipe mount in such a situation?  Is 
there something I could use I could buy locally?

Thanks,

Mike





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports

[Chuck Hogg]

While I don't disagree, we are in the process of switching CPE's to Moto
SM's.  I've too got MT boards out there since I installed them over 3
years ago, and I have 411 boards that are in service since they first
came out.  The problem is that they are much more sensitive to
lightning/ESD.

Really, in the summer/spring months with more electricity is when it's
10-20 a month.  I over-exaggerated it over the course of a year.  June
we had 5 and July we had 23.  Only good news is that I can repair them
relatively cheaply, but the service call/aggravation is lost $$. I just
can't afford 700 SM's and 3 months of downtime getting them installed
with my small crew.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of jp
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 1:58 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports

I would stop using something if I had that many failures a month, even 
for that many subscribers. You'll have replaced your whole subscriber 
base in three years at that rate, even if the customer didn't need the 
upgrade. Or half of them in 18 months. The 433 is is probably less 
expensive than a service call + rb411. I've not bought a single 411 
because I've heard of this problem. I do buy lots of 433ah's though.

I've got some radios out in the field that close to 10 years old now. I 
do expect 5-6 years out of a radio on average, even if I pay for it in 
1-3. Our guys can only handle so many service calls and miles of travel 
a day. We use mostly Trango and Alvarion radios, and 100ish MT routers. 
We dispose of a couple of each type of radio, and maybe 1 RB a month for

about twice as many subs.


On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 10:26:28AM -0400, Chuck Hogg wrote:
> The chip on the 411 is different than the one on the 433, the 433 has
a
> switch chip built in.  We could probably repair the 433/450 as well,
but
> the chip to repair/replace is significantly more expensive.  I have
not
> seen as many issues with the 433's blowing, but we seem to blow about
> 10-20 411's a month out of 700 or so subs using them.
> 
> Regards,
> Chuck Hogg
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com
> http://www.shelbybb.com
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
> Behalf Of Scott Carullo
> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:24 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports
> 
> Man I thrown a bunch of these out. Have to dig through my trash now
lol
> 
> I assume its the same deal with eth ports on RB450G and others?
> 
> Question - Its funny your subject listed the RB411.  I have had LOTS
of 
> RB411 eth ports blown.  Obviously I'm not the only one or this thread
> would 
> not have started.  Do you all see the same problems on other
> routerboards 
> or just the RB411?  I'm curious if I were to use say an RB433 would it
> be 
> any more resilient to close lightning strikes?  I'd gladly start using
> them 
> or whatever else might work.  I do have lots of 532's and 133's and
they
> do 
> not seem to have this problem, but I have more RB411's so it could be
> just 
> statistics...
> 
> Opinions?
> 
> Scott Carullo
> Brevard Wireless
> 321-205-1100 x102
> 
>  Original Message 
> > From: "Chuck Hogg" 
> > Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 5:07 PM
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Subject: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports
> > 
> > If you have any RB/411's that boot up, but have blown Ethernet
ports,
> I
> > will buy them from you.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > $5/board if you don't want it back
> > 
> > $20/board if you would like it repaired and sent back to you.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Some boards that we have been receiving cannot be repaired due to a
> > direct lightning strike.  They must be bootable, but without link.
> > Please contact me off-list for further details.
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Chuck Hogg
> > 
> > Shelby Broadband
> > 502-722-9292
> > ch...@shelbybb.com
> > 
> > http://www.shelbybb.com
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
>

> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
>

> 
> 
> >  
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > 
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > 
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>

> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://

Re: [WISPA] Mounting a dish on a Rohn 9N

[lakeland]

Pipe to pipe mount

This will allow you to mount to the leg and add a larger pipe to mount the dish.
www.sitepro1.com
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Mike 

Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 13:06:26 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Mounting a dish on a Rohn 9N


I need to mount a 2' dish close to the top of a Rohn 9N tower.  The 
tower steel is not very large in diameter that high, and I already 
have another dish mounted on the pipe coming out the top of the 
taper.  So, I need to mount it to the side.

The mounts for the dish and radome will accommodate 1 1/2 at the smallest.

What are you guys using as a pipe mount in such a situation?  Is 
there something I could use I could buy locally?

Thanks,

Mike





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Oris itgettingbetter?

[Mike Hammett]

I have a connection to another WISP.  Cost?  $0.  When my main upstream goes 
down, MT automatically routes everything through the backup.  In exchange, I 
provide labor to the other WISP when he encounters things he personally doesn't 
want to do.  I think it's a great relationship.  It'd cost each of us more to 
get our half of the equation elsewhere.  Everything is completely diverse.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




From: Brian Rohrbacher 
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:38 AM
To: WISPA General List 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Oris itgettingbetter?


Don't be afraid to get creative with your backup connection.  Mine is a $60 a 
month 6 meg down and 768k up DSL line.  Sure we average 12 meg on the bandwidth 
graph, but it's better than being off.  When I have to use the backup I limit 
all connections to 56k up and 100k down.

Brian

Tom DeReggi wrote: 
Actually, I disagree with your example.

You let your customer down, not Qwest.
Did you route them out your secondary transit? If you didn;t have one, thats 
not the customer's faught.
Did you let him know that you are trying to contact Quest yourself to get 
more information on an ETA, and influence a work around?
Did he feel you were in control of the situation? Or did you leave him to 
fend for himself, even though you were the expert on the technology?

Sending the message, "oh well, its down, not my problem, let all my own 
customers suffer, so what" is not taking care of your clients.
If you had communicated with your client making him feel like you were 
working towards defending his interests, he never would have took action 
into his own hands and called Qwest directly to investigate further, and get 
false answers.

So yes, Customers can be irrational, often unfair and unforgiving, but if 
you want to keep your clients its up to you to deal with it and take care of 
them.
Who's faught it is, is irrelevent. Customer Service is about taking care of 
the customer.

I just lost a customer 2 weeks ago. Power went out AGAIN! It keeps blowing 
breakers on electrical panels not under my controll or access.  I can put 
UPSes there all day, but that does no good if breakers turn off upstream of 
my electrical Demarc.  But DSL, CABLE, and Cellular EVDO didn't go out every 
time the property had power failures.  It was my faught that I designed a 
business install to be behind an electric  breaker that was outside my 
control to manage.  If I did my job and took care of the client, I would 
have called the power company or property management and redesign an 
alternate solution, after the first couple of times the power went out.  But 
I didn't.  Yes, I lost the client, and yes, it was my fault.  Blaiming it on 
the Power Company didn't work for long.

Just keeping it real.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Ryan Ghering" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Or is 
itgettingbetter?


  Yesterday, we had a long term upstream outage. Someone in Qwest killed our
ATM upstream and somehow we were getting crosstalk to another ATM PVC.
(Don't ask nobody can tell me how this was done).

In the mean time customers are calling us screaming that they need their
net. Our staff politely informs them all day long that this isn't a issue
with us, its upstream. Some customers accept that and move on for the day.

However the kicker!! One of our customers which is a dedicated 3 meg calls
up and asks, "Are you down" I say yes at this time the internet is down 
due
to a problem with qwest in Denver. The customer says "ok, do you have an
ETA?" I tell him no not at this time the problem is with qwest not with 
us.
Customer says "ok thanks" and hangs up.

Not 20 minutes later I get a phone call from the customer, he's mad as 
hell
and spitting nails. I only caught about 1/2 of what he had said. But it
sounded like. "Your a damn lier, I call qwest, they have NO issues 
anywhere.
I want my ** Net or you can kiss my account goodbye a**hole.."

Then he hangs up. ( mind you this is a business customer )

I call him back about an hour later and he says he's canceled. And will 
get
service from somewhere else.

How can this be? How was this my fault?

Customers are irrational and stupid..  Agreed. lol


Ryan

On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 1:58 AM, Marlon K. Schafer 
wrote:

roflol

Rick this is a GOOD thing  Your customers call you for all problems
because YOU WILL ANSWER THE PHONE!!

Sometimes great service levels suck.  lol
marlon

- Original Message -
From: "Rick Kunze" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 5:40 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Or is it
gettingbetter?


  Customer calls just now.  They ask if the Internet is "having trouble",
I reply that there are no out

[WISPA] WISP for sale question

[Patrick D. Nix, Jr]

Besides this list (I realize it is inappropriate to advertise for sale
here) are there any other lists or forums that discuss acquisitions or
listings specifically for ISP businesses for sale with a specific
reference to Wireless ISPs?

 

Thanks,

 

Patrick Nix, Jr.,
Computer Network Solutions
CSWEB.NET Internet Services
IT Manager

http://www.cnetworksolutions.com
http://www.csweb.net

(918) 235-0414

 



Attention: This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and
destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a
person other than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be
illegal.

 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Tom DeReggi]

Patrick,

In general, sounds like good advice.

To clarify our intent, in posting.

>From yr 2000-2008, our model was to

1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator, 
in longer lasting Emergencies.
(We have a couple hot spare generators)

Why are we changing our view point?

1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are 
still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka 
Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the 
batteries, based on watt load at the sites.

2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the 
challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get 
to multiple locations at once with generators.
Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end 
of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the 
time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.

3)  Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)

We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not 
necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still 
keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle 
than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me 
quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when 
needed.

We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to, 
so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would 
have for this type stuff.  For example, whether they would be concerned 
about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.

I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical 
connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would 
require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking 
maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the 
tank after use?

I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on 
ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.

Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features 
for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the 
requirements of code and property managers.

For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator


> Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
> be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
> However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
> power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
> requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
> fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
> you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
> from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
> their tenants for phone systems, etc.
>
> Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
> place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
> capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
> rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.
>
>
> Patrick Shoemaker
> Vector Data Systems LLC
> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>> While on the topic of generators.
>>
>> Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial
>> Multi-tenant buildings.
>>
>> Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed 
>> on
>> roofs, for fire safety reasons.
>> Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain 
>> generators.
>>
>> What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get 
>> installed
>> in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof?
>>
>> If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get
>> re-fueled easilly?
>> Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new 
>> tanks
>> swapped (like a gas grill).?
>> Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level?
>> Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground level, and run AC
>> wire up to the roof level?
>> Do propain gas trucks have long enough hoses to reach rooms inside 
>> parking
>> garages? Not likely will fit driving into parking garage?
>>
>> Do property owners worry about propain blowing up, and have limits to 
>> where
>> the tanks can be pla

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Christopher Erickson]

The right type of batteries could give you 15 to 20 years of service.

And adding a pair of solar panels and an MPPT solar charge controller could
increase your backup battery run time from a couple of days to a couple
of weeks.  And no volatile fuel issues to deal with either.  And their PMI
interval is a godsend too.  And cheaper than a genny.

Add another panel or two and you might even be able to drop your grid
connection.

Remember to eliminate as many power conversions as possible from your
telecom power design.

-Christopher Erickson
Network Design Engineer
5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529
Anchorage, AK 99508
N61?11.710' W149?46.723'


> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]on
> Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:49 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>
>
> Patrick,
>
> In general, sounds like good advice.
>
> To clarify our intent, in posting.
>
> >From yr 2000-2008, our model was to
>
> 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
> 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered
> generator,
> in longer lasting Emergencies.
> (We have a couple hot spare generators)
>
> Why are we changing our view point?
>
> 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are
> still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in
> price (aka
> Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the
> batteries, based on watt load at the sites.
>
> 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the
> challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and
> harder to get
> to multiple locations at once with generators.
> Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when
> towards the end
> of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the
> time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.
>
> 3)  Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)
>
> We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase
> uptime, and not
> necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of
> course still
> keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be
> more hassle
> than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me
> quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when
> needed.
>
> We are already connected to building generators, where we were
> allowed to,
> so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
> I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property
> management would
> have for this type stuff.  For example, whether they would be concerned
> about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.
>
> I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical
> connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would
> require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
> There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking
> maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the
> tank after use?
>
> I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want
> to mount on
> ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.
>
> Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features
> for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features
> to meet the
> requirements of code and property managers.
>
> For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>
>
> > Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
> > be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
> > However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
> > power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
> > requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
> > fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
> > you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
> > from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
> > their tenants for phone systems, etc.
> >
> > Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
> > place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
> > capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
> > rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.
> >
> >
> > Patrick Shoemaker
> > Vector Data Systems LLC
> > shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> > office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> > http://www.vectordatasystems.com
> >
> >
> > Tom DeReggi wrote:
> >> While on the top

Re: [WISPA] Mounting a dish on a Rohn 9N

[Mike]

When I search there for pipe to pipe, I only get hits for ice bridge hardware.


At 01:30 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>Pipe to pipe mount
>
>This will allow you to mount to the leg and add a larger pipe to 
>mount the dish.
>www.sitepro1.com



>...





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] mikrotik how to check something other than def gw for link up

[Alan Long]

I am going to setup a mt 493ah for load balancing, and I see where to setup
check for def gw for internet up. How can I set it for checking something
other than def gw, something past the def gw? I posted on mt forum, but no
response yet..Thanks for any help..

 

Alan

 





  

 

 



Alan Long
Director of Network Operations 

Aerowire
 
 687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830 


  alan.l...@aerowire.net 


tel: 
mobile: 

 
 3342759998
 
 336092 

 



 
 Always have my latest info

  Want a
signature like this?

 

<>


WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mikrotik how to check something other than def gw for link up

[Nick Olsen]

There are scripts on the mikrotik wiki, it will be a script. That will ping 
a device, and if it goes down, you can have it switch default routes, or 
disable a interface, you name it. Check the wiki.

Nick Olsen

Brevard Wireless

(321) 205-1100 x106


From: "Alan Long" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:23 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] mikrotik how to check something other than def gw for link 
up 

I am going to setup a mt 493ah for load balancing, and I see where to 
setup
check for def gw for internet up. How can I set it for checking something
other than def gw, something past the def gw? I posted on mt forum, but no
response yet..Thanks for any help..

Alan

Alan Long
Director of Network Operations 

Aerowire

rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
Auburn, AL 36830 

  alan.l...@aerowire.net 

tel: 
mobile: 

mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998

mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092 

nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info

  Want a
signature like this?



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] mikrotik how to check something other than def gw for link up

[Josh Luthman]

Make a sys script that pings...4.2.2.2

Now make a route that sets the gateway for the primary interface when
the destination is 4.2.2.2

Normally it is best to pick a few hops away in that ISP.

On 8/3/09, Alan Long  wrote:
> I am going to setup a mt 493ah for load balancing, and I see where to setup
> check for def gw for internet up. How can I set it for checking something
> other than def gw, something past the def gw? I posted on mt forum, but no
> response yet..Thanks for any help..
>
>
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Alan Long
> Director of Network Operations
>
> Aerowire
>
>  rn%2C+AL+36830&country=us> 687 North Dean Road
> Auburn, AL 36830
>
>
>   alan.l...@aerowire.net
>
>
> tel:
> mobile:
>
>
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 3342759998
>
>  mail=along5...@yahoo.com> 336092
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  nvite=1<=en> Always have my latest info
>
>   Want a
> signature like this?
>
>
>
>


-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 04:25 -0400, Blair Davis wrote:
> But, can it be repaired cost effectively?  

All repairs are $30 for qty over 20.  We charge $35 per board for under
20 per order.  For a 411, that is probably NOT cost effective.  For most
other boards, it is.  There is very little that we cannot replace on
these SBC.  I am in the process of gathering the required chips, but I
have the ethernet chips for nearly all the routerboards and I have the
power controllers and supporting electronics as well.  With a few
exceptions, I either have in stock, or on the way, everything that is
needed to repair about 90%+ of any problem they would have.

> How about the diversity switch on the UBNT sr2 and sr5 cards?

I have not checked on the cost for that part.  I would imagine that we
would be able to replace this part, but I have not tried working on
these cards, yet.  The problem with the radio cards, is the rf shield.
Getting it off is not a problem, but getting it back into place without
changing the rf properties is a bit more challenging and I do not have
the proper equipment to guarantee that we have not changed the
properties of the card (and therefore the FCC certification).

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 12:17 -0400, RickG wrote:
> Another issue: when cards are blown, does it weaken the other
> componets thereby creating a possible issue shortly after it is put
> back into service?

While this is certainly possible, it is very unlikely.  It would be more
likely that the discrete components would be "weakened" than the ICs,
but even that is an unlikely event.  We do extensive tests on these
prior to shipping them back, so we would be likely to catch this sort of
problem.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless?Oris itgettingbetter?

[Tom DeReggi]

What we found was that

If ISP1 has 100mb, and ISP2 has a 100mb, and ISP1 goes down and routes 
backup to ISP2, ISP2's customers now get performance degregation and network 
congestions, at the expense of ISP1.
ISP2 looses customers and gains bad will far more expensive than just the 
backup bandwidth savings.  And then of course there was a cost to connect 
one WISP to the other, where sometimes the transport is more expensive than 
the transit (even if wireless).

I think there are three other options that help make a bandwdith sharing 
relationship work with another WISP.

1) Have 3 circuits total, and Share costs on the third backup connection. 
Each WISPA has their own primary connection, and then either can fail over 
to the shared backup connection.  It being rare that both providers would 
fail at the same time with full traffic load.

2) ISP2 Upgrades to faster speeds, where there is a cost savings per MB, 
because there was a higher commit. Now ISP2 has excess capacity. ISP1 helps 
cover a percentage of the cost of ISP2's increased cost bandwidth. Everyone 
wins because there is bandwidth to spare, and lower cost per mb is acheived 
for being better positioned to compete.

3) ISP1 uses provider A, ISP2 uses provider B, both ISPs buy more bandwdith 
than they need so there is excess capacity, then two WISPs become backup for 
each other. Again, also increases value of carrier diversity, possibly 
allowing better pricing for increased volume.

My point here is it is awesome when WISPs work togeather for mutual benefit, 
what ever the deal ends up being. I'm just pointing out excess capacity 
isn't free, and need to plan for the capacity that is really needed during 
the failover situation. The thing to realize is that maximum benefit is not 
always realized in a one to one relationship.  A 3 WISP partnership has 
greater savings than a 2 WISP partnership, etc.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Mike Hammett" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless?Oris 
itgettingbetter?


>I have a connection to another WISP.  Cost?  $0.  When my main upstream 
>goes down, MT automatically routes everything through the backup.  In 
>exchange, I provide labor to the other WISP when he encounters things he 
>personally doesn't want to do.  I think it's a great relationship.  It'd 
>cost each of us more to get our half of the equation elsewhere.  Everything 
>is completely diverse.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
>
> From: Brian Rohrbacher
> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:38 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Oris 
> itgettingbetter?
>
>
> Don't be afraid to get creative with your backup connection.  Mine is a 
> $60 a month 6 meg down and 768k up DSL line.  Sure we average 12 meg on 
> the bandwidth graph, but it's better than being off.  When I have to use 
> the backup I limit all connections to 56k up and 100k down.
>
> Brian
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Actually, I disagree with your example.
>
> You let your customer down, not Qwest.
> Did you route them out your secondary transit? If you didn;t have one, 
> thats
> not the customer's faught.
> Did you let him know that you are trying to contact Quest yourself to get
> more information on an ETA, and influence a work around?
> Did he feel you were in control of the situation? Or did you leave him to
> fend for himself, even though you were the expert on the technology?
>
> Sending the message, "oh well, its down, not my problem, let all my own
> customers suffer, so what" is not taking care of your clients.
> If you had communicated with your client making him feel like you were
> working towards defending his interests, he never would have took action
> into his own hands and called Qwest directly to investigate further, and 
> get
> false answers.
>
> So yes, Customers can be irrational, often unfair and unforgiving, but if
> you want to keep your clients its up to you to deal with it and take care 
> of
> them.
> Who's faught it is, is irrelevent. Customer Service is about taking care 
> of
> the customer.
>
> I just lost a customer 2 weeks ago. Power went out AGAIN! It keeps blowing
> breakers on electrical panels not under my controll or access.  I can put
> UPSes there all day, but that does no good if breakers turn off upstream 
> of
> my electrical Demarc.  But DSL, CABLE, and Cellular EVDO didn't go out 
> every
> time the property had power failures.  It was my faught that I designed a
> business install to be behind an electric  breaker that was outside my
> control to manage.  If I did my job and took care of the client, I would
> have called the power company or property management and redesign an
> alternate solution, after the first couple of times the power went out. 
> Bu

Re: [WISPA] Mounting a dish on a Rohn 9N

[Scott Reed]

try nelloinc.com
Hutton
Tessco

Mike wrote:
> When I search there for pipe to pipe, I only get hits for ice bridge hardware.
>
>
> At 01:30 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>   
>> Pipe to pipe mount
>>
>> This will allow you to mount to the leg and add a larger pipe to 
>> mount the dish.
>> www.sitepro1.com
>> 
>
>
>
>   
>> ...
>> 
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>   
> 
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 
> 05:57:00
>
>   

-- 
Scott Reed
Sr. Systems Engineer
GAB Midwest
1-800-363-1544 x4000
Cell: 260-273-7239




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Mounting a dish on a Rohn 9N

[Randy Cosby]

Try on sitepro1.com under "Hardware" then "Clamp Sets"

Good stuff, decent pricing.

Randy


Scott Reed wrote:
> try nelloinc.com
> Hutton
> Tessco
>
> Mike wrote:
>   
>> When I search there for pipe to pipe, I only get hits for ice bridge 
>> hardware.
>>
>>
>> At 01:30 PM 8/3/2009, you wrote:
>>   
>> 
>>> Pipe to pipe mount
>>>
>>> This will allow you to mount to the leg and add a larger pipe to 
>>> mount the dish.
>>> www.sitepro1.com
>>> 
>>>   
>>
>>   
>> 
>>> ...
>>> 
>>>   
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>   
>> 
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
>> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.42/2279 - Release Date: 08/03/09 
>> 05:57:00
>>
>>   
>> 
>
>   

-- 
Randy Cosby
Vice President
InfoWest, Inc

work: 435-773-6071
email: rco...@infowest.com

http://www.linkedin.com/in/randycosby




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Tom DeReggi]

We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. Actually, 
we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because we 
inherited them from Teligent days :-)
But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and decent 
run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters.  (The Triplites worked 
really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We 
matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice versa.)  So 
our thought was Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and load, 
and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power 
conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when batteries 
short out.  Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have 
duplicate need of devices to power.  Some are AC devices like PC routers. 
Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on 48V. 
Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and DC 
backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many new 
radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We really 
dont know in advance.  There is a lot of power waste going from AC to DC to 
AC to DC.

The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine 
generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with lower 
cost lower run-time batteries.  We'd still need to account for max watts 
growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements for both 
subsystems.

Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with batteries 
:-)

Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. Although, I bet my 
ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo fee for 
them :-(
I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather shields :-)

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "jp" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator


> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a pain.
>
> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which
>> includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic transfer
>> switch. Add the batteries and you're done.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>
>> > Thank you,
>> > That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a
>> > UPS.
>> >
>> > A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less
>> > and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the
>> > batteries @ 24VDC.
>> >
>> > Thanks again
>> > Jerry
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
>> > On Behalf Of Gary Garrett
>> > Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM
>> > To: WISPA General List
>> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>> >
>> > Small generators do not auto start very reliably.
>> > When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat
>> > and
>> > burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines,
>> > propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can
>> > be
>> > REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can not adapt to changing
>> > conditions.
>> > Our best generator is a Propane Ford inline 6 cyl. 25 KW 3 phase.
>> > (1955
>> > Model)
>> > The monitor cranks for 1 min then rests and tries 3 times.
>> > Everything is
>> > adjustable. It knows to stop cranking when it sees AC voltage from the
>> > Gen. so the motor over runs the starter for just a few seconds. Only a
>> > huge starter motor can take this abuse and last unattended.
>> >
>> > You may be money ahead to find out why the existing generator is not
>> > starting and get it fixed.
>> >
>> > Jerry Richardson wrote:
>> >> We rent on a tower that is suspposed to have gen-set backup but it
>> >> does not start reliably.
>> >>
>> >> Any recommendations on a small auto-start generator? We only need
>> >> to power a CMMmicro - ~100watts.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> __
>> >> Jerry Richardson
>> >> airCloud Communications
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> 
>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >>
>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >>
>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://sig

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Patrick Shoemaker]

I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on a 
commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum using 
even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing 
company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting surface 
for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting 
management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could be an 
issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas 
supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. Then 
the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC.

I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: 
$1500 including shipping.

A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All generators 
break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled models 
don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a 
battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, you 
won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power goes 
out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) have 
contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to your 
site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC.


Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Tom DeReggi wrote:
> We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. Actually, 
> we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because we 
> inherited them from Teligent days :-)
> But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and decent 
> run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters.  (The Triplites worked 
> really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We 
> matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice versa.)  So 
> our thought was Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and load, 
> and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power 
> conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when batteries 
> short out.  Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have 
> duplicate need of devices to power.  Some are AC devices like PC routers. 
> Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on 48V. 
> Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and DC 
> backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many new 
> radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We really 
> dont know in advance.  There is a lot of power waste going from AC to DC to 
> AC to DC.
> 
> The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine 
> generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with lower 
> cost lower run-time batteries.  We'd still need to account for max watts 
> growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements for both 
> subsystems.
> 
> Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with batteries 
> :-)
> 
> Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. Although, I bet my 
> ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo fee for 
> them :-(
> I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather shields :-)
> 
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "jp" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
> 
> 
>> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a pain.
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which
>>> includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic transfer
>>> switch. Add the batteries and you're done.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:
>>>
 Thank you,
 That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a
 UPS.

 A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less
 and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the
 batteries @ 24VDC.

 Thanks again
 Jerry


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On Behalf Of Gary Garrett
 Sent: Sunday, August 02, 2009 11:59 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

 Small generators do not auto start very reliably.
 When cold or dampness causes hard starting the starter can overheat
 and
 burn out. Generally you need an electric choke to start gas engines,
 propane can "flood" and need to rest before trying again, diesel can
 be
 REAL hard to start when cold. Auto starters can no

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Brian Rohrbacher]

Put the word GREEN in that grant app and you might just have a shot! 
Not too bad of an idea with those solar panels.

Brian

Christopher Erickson wrote:

  The right type of batteries could give you 15 to 20 years of service.

And adding a pair of solar panels and an MPPT solar charge controller could
increase your backup battery run time from a couple of days to a couple
of weeks.  And no volatile fuel issues to deal with either.  And their PMI
interval is a godsend too.  And cheaper than a genny.

Add another panel or two and you might even be able to drop your grid
connection.

Remember to eliminate as many power conversions as possible from your
telecom power design.

-Christopher Erickson
Network Design Engineer
5432 E. Northern Lights Blvd., Suite 529
Anchorage, AK 99508
N61?11.710' W149?46.723'


  
  
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator


Patrick,

In general, sounds like good advice.

To clarify our intent, in posting.

>From yr 2000-2008, our model was to

1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered
generator,
in longer lasting Emergencies.
(We have a couple hot spare generators)

Why are we changing our view point?

1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are
still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in
price (aka
Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the
batteries, based on watt load at the sites.

2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the
challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and
harder to get
to multiple locations at once with generators.
Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when
towards the end
of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the
time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.

3)  Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)

We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase
uptime, and not
necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of
course still
keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be
more hassle
than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me
quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when
needed.

We are already connected to building generators, where we were
allowed to,
so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property
management would
have for this type stuff.  For example, whether they would be concerned
about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.

I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical
connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would
require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking
maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the
tank after use?

I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want
to mount on
ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.

Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features
for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features
to meet the
requirements of code and property managers.

For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator




  Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
their tenants for phone systems, etc.

Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.


Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Tom DeReggi wrote:
  
  
While on the topic of generators.

Anyone have advice on

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Tom DeReggi]

Patrick,

All excellent points, and reality checks. Thanks for the feedback!


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator


>I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on a
> commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum using
> even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing
> company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting surface
> for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting
> management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could be an
> issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas
> supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. Then
> the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC.
>
> I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site:
> $1500 including shipping.
>
> A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All generators
> break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled models
> don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a
> battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, you
> won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power goes
> out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) have
> contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to your
> site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC.
>
>
> Patrick Shoemaker
> Vector Data Systems LLC
> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>> We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. 
>> Actually,
>> we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because we
>> inherited them from Teligent days :-)
>> But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and 
>> decent
>> run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters.  (The Triplites 
>> worked
>> really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We
>> matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice versa.) 
>> So
>> our thought was Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and 
>> load,
>> and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power
>> conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when batteries
>> short out.  Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have
>> duplicate need of devices to power.  Some are AC devices like PC routers.
>> Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on 
>> 48V.
>> Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and DC
>> backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many new
>> radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We really
>> dont know in advance.  There is a lot of power waste going from AC to DC 
>> to
>> AC to DC.
>>
>> The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine
>> generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with 
>> lower
>> cost lower run-time batteries.  We'd still need to account for max watts
>> growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements for 
>> both
>> subsystems.
>>
>> Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with 
>> batteries
>> :-)
>>
>> Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. Although, I bet 
>> my
>> ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo fee for
>> them :-(
>> I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather shields 
>> :-)
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "jp" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>
>>
>>> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a pain.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
 You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which
 includes a DC to AC inverter, battery charger, and automatic transfer
 switch. Add the batteries and you're done.

 Greg

 On Aug 2, 2009, at 2:38 PM, Jerry Richardson wrote:

> Thank you,
> That is very good advice. After some research, I'm leaning toward a
> UPS.
>
> A pair of good AGM batteries and charge controller will cost less
> and be far less maintainence. Then I'd just run the CMM off the
> batteries @ 24VDC.
>
> Thanks again
> Jerry
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On Behalf Of Gary Garrett
> Sent: Sunday, August 

[WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Forbes Mercy]

Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box
lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on
18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an
interface we could use.

We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.

My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and
wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the old
133 board.  Any others having these problems?

Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Josh Luthman]

I had 2 433ah that were fine for a year until lightning got them.  I'm
pretty sure I used more of them elsewhere (no problems with anything else
though).

I would never use a 133 board.  I strongly dislike them.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Forbes Mercy
wrote:

> Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box
> lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on
> 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an
> interface we could use.
>
> We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
> unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
> hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
>
> My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
> radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and
> wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the old
> 133 board.  Any others having these problems?
>
> Forbes Mercy
> President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Dennis Burgess]

Sure these are not overclocked?

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box
lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on
18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an
interface we could use.

We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.

My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and
wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the old
133 board.  Any others having these problems?

Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Dennis Burgess]

Why they don't make them anymore! Lol  ..  They were good, just NO cpu
behind them, simple as that! Lol.  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 7:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

I had 2 433ah that were fine for a year until lightning got them.  I'm
pretty sure I used more of them elsewhere (no problems with anything
else
though).

I would never use a 133 board.  I strongly dislike them.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Forbes Mercy
wrote:

> Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box
> lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only
on
> 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to
an
> interface we could use.
>
> We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
> unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
> hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
>
> My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
> radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly
and
> wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the old
> 133 board.  Any others having these problems?
>
> Forbes Mercy
> President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>


>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Dennis Burgess]

Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor?
And/or like I suggested overclocked.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box
lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on
18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an
interface we could use.

We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.

My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and
wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the old
133 board.  Any others having these problems?

Forbes Mercy
President - Washington Broadband, Inc. 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Josh Luthman]

Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning,
whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced,
necessarily, by a newer board.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess wrote:

> Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor?
> And/or like I suggested overclocked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
>
> Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box
> lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on
> 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an
> interface we could use.
>
> We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
> unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
> hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
>
> My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
> radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and
> wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the old
> 133 board.  Any others having these problems?
>
> Forbes Mercy
> President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Brian Webster]

And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries
when they are no longer functional. Telephone companies have an
extensive HAZMAT documentation and chain of custody requirement for
their switch batteries. Don't think this industry will get away with
not having some requirement like that for long :-)









Thank You,



Thank You,
Brian Webster





Tom DeReggi wrote:

  Patrick,

In general, sounds like good advice.

To clarify our intent, in posting.

>From yr 2000-2008, our model was to

1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered generator, 
in longer lasting Emergencies.
(We have a couple hot spare generators)

Why are we changing our view point?

1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are 
still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka 
Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the 
batteries, based on watt load at the sites.

2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the 
challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to get 
to multiple locations at once with generators.
Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end 
of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the 
time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.

3)  Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)

We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and not 
necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course still 
keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle 
than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me 
quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when 
needed.

We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to, 
so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management would 
have for this type stuff.  For example, whether they would be concerned 
about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.

I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical 
connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would 
require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking 
maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the 
tank after use?

I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount on 
ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.

Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features 
for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet the 
requirements of code and property managers.

For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator


  
  
Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
their tenants for phone systems, etc.

Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.


Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Tom DeReggi wrote:


  While on the topic of generators.

Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial
Multi-tenant buildings.

Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed 
on
roofs, for fire safety reasons.
Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain 
generators.

What type propain generators would likely gain permission to get 
installed
in a rooftop penthouse? or Roof?

If a propain generator was used on a top floor, how would Propain get
re-fueled easilly?
Is is standard proceedure to have removable tanks, and just have new 
tanks
swapped (like a gas grill).?
Or is is customary to have tanks on the ground level?
Or is it always standard to put the generator at ground

Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Small auto start generator

[Josh Luthman]

Uhm...exchange them for 15 bucks off a new one...

On 8/3/09, Brian Webster  wrote:
> And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer
> functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and
> chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this
> industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long
> :-)
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
>
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>
>> Patrick,
>>
>> In general, sounds like good advice.
>>
>> To clarify our intent, in posting.
>>
>> >From yr 2000-2008, our model was to
>>
>> 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
>> 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered
>> generator,
>> in longer lasting Emergencies.
>> (We have a couple hot spare generators)
>>
>> Why are we changing our view point?
>>
>> 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are
>> still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka
>>
>> Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the
>> batteries, based on watt load at the sites.
>>
>> 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the
>> challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to
>> get
>> to multiple locations at once with generators.
>> Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end
>>
>> of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the
>> time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.
>>
>> 3)  Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)
>>
>> We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and
>> not
>> necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course
>> still
>> keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle
>>
>> than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me
>> quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when
>> needed.
>>
>> We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to,
>>
>> so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
>> I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management
>> would
>> have for this type stuff.  For example, whether they would be concerned
>> about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.
>>
>> I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical
>> connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would
>> require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
>> There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking
>> maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the
>> tank after use?
>>
>> I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount
>> on
>> ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.
>>
>> Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features
>> for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet
>> the
>> requirements of code and property managers.
>>
>> For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.
>>
>> Tom DeReggi
>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" 
>> To: "WISPA General List" 
>> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
>>> be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
>>> However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
>>> power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
>>> requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
>>> fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
>>> you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
>>> from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
>>> their tenants for phone systems, etc.
>>>
>>> Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
>>> place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
>>> capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
>>> rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.
>>>
>>>
>>> Patrick Shoemaker
>>> Vector Data Systems LLC
>>> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
>>> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
>>> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>>>

 While on the topic of generators.

 Anyone have advice on how to accommodate generators in Commercial
 Multi-tenant buildings.

 Several things come to mind... Gas generators are definately not allowed

 on
 roofs, for fire safety reasons.
 Adequate ventilation is likely needed for either gas or Propain
 generators.

Re: [WISPA] [Motorola II] Small auto start generator

[Brian Webster]

Title: Thank You,




I'm just saying that if the telephone companies have
a big requirement for tracking batteries, expect that this industry
will get that level of attention soon. With all the stimulus money I
would not be surprised if those requirements aren't already part of the
grant compliance. Sure a small guy can exchange car or deep cycle
batteries now at the parts store, I just would not expect that
simplicity to last forever. Just pointing out that large battery
systems will at some point have an additional liability to consider in
the total cost of operation and ownership.













Thank
You,
Brian Webster

 




Josh Luthman wrote:

  Uhm...exchange them for 15 bucks off a new one...

On 8/3/09, Brian Webster  wrote:
  
  
And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer
functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and
chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this
industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long
:-)


Thank You,
Brian Webster



Tom DeReggi wrote:


  Patrick,

In general, sounds like good advice.

To clarify our intent, in posting.

>From yr 2000-2008, our model was to

1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered
generator,
in longer lasting Emergencies.
(We have a couple hot spare generators)

Why are we changing our view point?

1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are
still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka

Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the
batteries, based on watt load at the sites.

2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the
challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to
get
to multiple locations at once with generators.
Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end

of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the
time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.

3)  Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)

We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and
not
necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course
still
keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle

than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me
quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when
needed.

We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to,

so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management
would
have for this type stuff.  For example, whether they would be concerned
about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.

I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical
connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would
require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking
maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the
tank after use?

I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount
on
ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.

Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features
for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet
the
requirements of code and property managers.

For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message -
From: "Patrick Shoemaker" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator



  
  
Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
their tenants for phone systems, etc.

Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
rare outage that lasts longer than the batteries.


Patrick Shoemaker
Vector Data Systems LLC
shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
office: (301) 358-1690 x36
http://www.vectordatasystems.com


Tom DeReggi wrote:


   

Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasinglyclueless?Oris itgettingbetter?

[Mike Hammett]

Agreed


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Tom DeReggi" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:38 PM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasinglyclueless?Orisitgettingbetter?> 
What we found was that
>
> If ISP1 has 100mb, and ISP2 has a 100mb, and ISP1 goes down and routes
> backup to ISP2, ISP2's customers now get performance degregation and 
> network
> congestions, at the expense of ISP1.
> ISP2 looses customers and gains bad will far more expensive than just the
> backup bandwidth savings.  And then of course there was a cost to connect
> one WISP to the other, where sometimes the transport is more expensive 
> than
> the transit (even if wireless).
>
> I think there are three other options that help make a bandwdith sharing
> relationship work with another WISP.
>
> 1) Have 3 circuits total, and Share costs on the third backup connection.
> Each WISPA has their own primary connection, and then either can fail over
> to the shared backup connection.  It being rare that both providers would
> fail at the same time with full traffic load.
>
> 2) ISP2 Upgrades to faster speeds, where there is a cost savings per MB,
> because there was a higher commit. Now ISP2 has excess capacity. ISP1 
> helps
> cover a percentage of the cost of ISP2's increased cost bandwidth. 
> Everyone
> wins because there is bandwidth to spare, and lower cost per mb is 
> acheived
> for being better positioned to compete.
>
> 3) ISP1 uses provider A, ISP2 uses provider B, both ISPs buy more 
> bandwdith
> than they need so there is excess capacity, then two WISPs become backup 
> for
> each other. Again, also increases value of carrier diversity, possibly
> allowing better pricing for increased volume.
>
> My point here is it is awesome when WISPs work togeather for mutual 
> benefit,
> what ever the deal ends up being. I'm just pointing out excess capacity
> isn't free, and need to plan for the capacity that is really needed during
> the failover situation. The thing to realize is that maximum benefit is 
> not
> always realized in a one to one relationship.  A 3 WISP partnership has
> greater savings than a 2 WISP partnership, etc.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Mike Hammett" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 3:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless?Oris
> itgettingbetter?
>
>
>>I have a connection to another WISP.  Cost?  $0.  When my main upstream
>>goes down, MT automatically routes everything through the backup.  In
>>exchange, I provide labor to the other WISP when he encounters things he
>>personally doesn't want to do.  I think it's a great relationship.  It'd
>>cost each of us more to get our half of the equation elsewhere. 
>>Everything
>>is completely diverse.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Brian Rohrbacher
>> Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 8:38 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Are customers increasingly clueless? Oris
>> itgettingbetter?
>>
>>
>> Don't be afraid to get creative with your backup connection.  Mine is a
>> $60 a month 6 meg down and 768k up DSL line.  Sure we average 12 meg on
>> the bandwidth graph, but it's better than being off.  When I have to use
>> the backup I limit all connections to 56k up and 100k down.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> Tom DeReggi wrote:
>> Actually, I disagree with your example.
>>
>> You let your customer down, not Qwest.
>> Did you route them out your secondary transit? If you didn;t have one,
>> thats
>> not the customer's faught.
>> Did you let him know that you are trying to contact Quest yourself to get
>> more information on an ETA, and influence a work around?
>> Did he feel you were in control of the situation? Or did you leave him to
>> fend for himself, even though you were the expert on the technology?
>>
>> Sending the message, "oh well, its down, not my problem, let all my own
>> customers suffer, so what" is not taking care of your clients.
>> If you had communicated with your client making him feel like you were
>> working towards defending his interests, he never would have took action
>> into his own hands and called Qwest directly to investigate further, and
>> get
>> false answers.
>>
>> So yes, Customers can be irrational, often unfair and unforgiving, but if
>> you want to keep your clients its up to you to deal with it and take care
>> of
>> them.
>> Who's faught it is, is irrelevent. Customer Service is about taking care
>> of
>> the customer.
>>
>> I just lost a customer 2 weeks ago. Power went out AGAIN! It keeps 
>> blowing
>> breakers on electrical panels not under my controll or access.  I can put
>> UPSes there all day, but that does no good if breakers turn off upstream
>> of
>> my electr

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Jayson Baker]

Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the
country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded
cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded PacWireless POE
injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related
service call.
We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of truck
rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning,
> whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced,
> necessarily, by a newer board.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess  >wrote:
>
> > Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor?
> > And/or like I suggested overclocked.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
> >
> > Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box
> > lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on
> > 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an
> > interface we could use.
> >
> > We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
> > unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
> > hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
> >
> > My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
> > radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and
> > wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the old
> > 133 board.  Any others having these problems?
> >
> > Forbes Mercy
> > President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Josh Luthman]

I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few
weeks ago.

On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
> We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the
> country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded
> cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
> installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded PacWireless POE
> injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning related
> service call.
> We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of truck
> rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:
>
>> Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA, lightning,
>> whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced,
>> necessarily, by a newer board.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess > >wrote:
>>
>> > Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your vendor?
>> > And/or like I suggested overclocked.
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
>> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
>> > To: WISPA General List
>> > Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
>> >
>> > Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box
>> > lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only on
>> > 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to an
>> > interface we could use.
>> >
>> > We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
>> > unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
>> > hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
>> >
>> > My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
>> > radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly and
>> > wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the old
>> > 133 board.  Any others having these problems?
>> >
>> > Forbes Mercy
>> > President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
>> >
>> >
>> > 
>> > 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> > 
>> > 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>


-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Jayson Baker]

We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after
we crimp it on.
Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few
> weeks ago.
>
> On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> > Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
> > We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the
> > country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded
> > cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
> > installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded PacWireless
> POE
> > injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning
> related
> > service call.
> > We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of truck
> > rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA,
> lightning,
> >> whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced,
> >> necessarily, by a newer board.
> >>
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> >> improbable, must be the truth."
> >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess  >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your
> vendor?
> >> > And/or like I suggested overclocked.
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> >> > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
> >> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
> >> > To: WISPA General List
> >> > Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
> >> >
> >> > Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the box
> >> > lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only
> on
> >> > 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to
> an
> >> > interface we could use.
> >> >
> >> > We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
> >> > unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
> >> > hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
> >> >
> >> > My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
> >> > radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly
> and
> >> > wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the old
> >> > 133 board.  Any others having these problems?
> >> >
> >> > Forbes Mercy
> >> > President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> 
> >> > 
> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> >
> 
> >> > 
> >> >
> >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >> >
> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >> >
> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> 
> >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> 
> >> >
> >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >> >
> >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >> >
> >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
> --
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
>
> --

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Josh Luthman]

You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker wrote:

> We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after
> we crimp it on.
> Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman  >wrote:
>
> > I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few
> > weeks ago.
> >
> > On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> > > Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
> > > We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the
> > > country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded
> > > cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
> > > installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded PacWireless
> > POE
> > > injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning
> > related
> > > service call.
> > > We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of
> truck
> > > rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA,
> > lightning,
> > >> whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced,
> > >> necessarily, by a newer board.
> > >>
> > >> Josh Luthman
> > >> Office: 937-552-2340
> > >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> > >> 1100 Wayne St
> > >> Suite 1337
> > >> Troy, OH 45373
> > >>
> > >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> > >> improbable, must be the truth."
> > >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess <
> dmburg...@linktechs.net
> > >> >wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your
> > vendor?
> > >> > And/or like I suggested overclocked.
> > >> >
> > >> > -Original Message-
> > >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> ]
> > On
> > >> > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
> > >> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
> > >> > To: WISPA General List
> > >> > Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
> > >> >
> > >> > Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the
> box
> > >> > lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once only
> > on
> > >> > 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got to
> > an
> > >> > interface we could use.
> > >> >
> > >> > We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors and
> > >> > unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every few
> > >> > hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
> > >> >
> > >> > My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on the
> > >> > radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting costly
> > and
> > >> > wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the
> old
> > >> > 133 board.  Any others having these problems?
> > >> >
> > >> > Forbes Mercy
> > >> > President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > 
> > >> > 
> > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >> >
> > 
> > >> > 
> > >> >
> > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >> >
> > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >> >
> > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >> >
> > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >> >
> > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >> >
> > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> -

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Jayson Baker]

Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100' long
lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board.

Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good
grounded POE injector == no problems for many years

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker  >wrote:
>
> > We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector
> after
> > we crimp it on.
> > Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few
> > > weeks ago.
> > >
> > > On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> > > > Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
> > > > We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in the
> > > > country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded
> > > > cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
> > > > installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded
> PacWireless
> > > POE
> > > > injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning
> > > related
> > > > service call.
> > > > We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of
> > truck
> > > > rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA,
> > > lightning,
> > > >> whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were replaced,
> > > >> necessarily, by a newer board.
> > > >>
> > > >> Josh Luthman
> > > >> Office: 937-552-2340
> > > >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > >> 1100 Wayne St
> > > >> Suite 1337
> > > >> Troy, OH 45373
> > > >>
> > > >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
> however
> > > >> improbable, must be the truth."
> > > >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess <
> > dmburg...@linktechs.net
> > > >> >wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your
> > > vendor?
> > > >> > And/or like I suggested overclocked.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -Original Message-
> > > >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:
> wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> > ]
> > > On
> > > >> > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
> > > >> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
> > > >> > To: WISPA General List
> > > >> > Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of the
> > box
> > > >> > lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once
> only
> > > on
> > > >> > 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or got
> to
> > > an
> > > >> > interface we could use.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors
> and
> > > >> > unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every
> few
> > > >> > hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on
> the
> > > >> > radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting
> costly
> > > and
> > > >> > wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall the
> > old
> > > >> > 133 board.  Any others having these problems?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Forbes Mercy
> > > >> > President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > >
> 
> > > >> > 
> > > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >> >
> > >
> 
> > > >> > 
> > > >> >
> > > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> 
> > > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> 
> > > >> >
> > > >> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> > http://lists.wis

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Josh Luthman]

*Face plant*

Never heard of those before...

I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire?  It doesn't
drain water, but is conductive - is this right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker wrote:

> Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
> Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100'
> long
> lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board.
>
> Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good
> grounded POE injector == no problems for many years
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman  >wrote:
>
> > You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> >
> > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> > improbable, must be the truth."
> > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker  > >wrote:
> >
> > > We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector
> > after
> > > we crimp it on.
> > > Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman <
> > j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few
> > > > weeks ago.
> > > >
> > > > On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> > > > > Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
> > > > > We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in
> the
> > > > > country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded
> > > > > cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
> > > > > installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded
> > PacWireless
> > > > POE
> > > > > injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning
> > > > related
> > > > > service call.
> > > > > We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of
> > > truck
> > > > > rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA,
> > > > lightning,
> > > > >> whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were
> replaced,
> > > > >> necessarily, by a newer board.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Josh Luthman
> > > > >> Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > >> 1100 Wayne St
> > > > >> Suite 1337
> > > > >> Troy, OH 45373
> > > > >>
> > > > >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
> > however
> > > > >> improbable, must be the truth."
> > > > >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess <
> > > dmburg...@linktechs.net
> > > > >> >wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your
> > > > vendor?
> > > > >> > And/or like I suggested overclocked.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > -Original Message-
> > > > >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:
> > wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> > > ]
> > > > On
> > > > >> > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
> > > > >> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
> > > > >> > To: WISPA General List
> > > > >> > Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of
> the
> > > box
> > > > >> > lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once
> > only
> > > > on
> > > > >> > 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped twice or
> got
> > to
> > > > an
> > > > >> > interface we could use.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > We just installed another one and it now is giving kernel errors
> > and
> > > > >> > unless authenticate all is on everyone loses registration every
> > few
> > > > >> > hours.  We updated the firmware but with no positive result.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > My costs for tower climbers and anger from the 150 customers on
> > the
> > > > >> > radio that went bad the day after we installed it is getting
> > costly
> > > > and
> > > > >> > wearing on my staff.  We're going back right now to reinstall
> the
> > > old
> > > > >> > 133 board.  Any others having these problems?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Forbes Mercy
> > > > >> > President - Washington Broadband, Inc.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > >
> > 
> > > > >> > 
> > > > >> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > >> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > > >> >
> > > >
> > 

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[Blake Bowers]

Its really not onerous requirements.   Basically you need
to dispose of them with a true battery recylcer - often times
the scrap dealer down the road.

As long as they provide documenation that you took them to
someone reputable in the chain, you are fine.

A typical flooded CO battery weighs in at around 400 lbs, the
last ones we removed got .15 cents a lb, with paper trail to Doe
Run MO.

The site had over 48 of them.

You need a special sling to move them...  If anyone has to
I can give details.


Don't take your organs to heaven,
heaven knows we need them down here!
Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.

- Original Message - 
From: "Brian Webster" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator


> And don't forget the disposal costs of batteries when they are no longer 
> functional. Telephone companies have an extensive HAZMAT documentation and 
> chain of custody requirement for their switch batteries. Don't think this 
> industry will get away with not having some requirement like that for long 
> :-)
>
>
>
> Thank You,
> Brian Webster
> 
>
>
>
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
> Patrick,
>
> In general, sounds like good advice.
>
> To clarify our intent, in posting.
>
>>From yr 2000-2008, our model was to
>
> 1) Have minimum 12 hour run-time of battery for core cell sites.
> 2) Have contingency plan for hooking up a mobile gasoline powered 
> generator,
> in longer lasting Emergencies.
>(We have a couple hot spare generators)
>
> Why are we changing our view point?
>
> 1) Many of the batteries have now died, and need replaced. Batteries are
> still very expensive. Propaine Generators have come way down in price (aka
> Generac) In most case, the generator will be less expensive than the
> batteries, based on watt load at the sites.
>
> 2) Our network has grown, but our staff size has shrunk. We realize the
> challenge that more than one site can loose power at once, and harder to 
> get
> to multiple locations at once with generators.
>Its hard to know when batteries will hold or not, when towards the end
> of their life, so its always a rush with the genrators. 9/10 cases by the
> time we get generators onsite, the power gets restored within minutes.
>
> 3)  Its easy to throw a generator on a Grant Application :-)
>
> We believe permanent onsite generators would likely increase uptime, and 
> not
> necessarilly be more expensive, for some of our sites. (We'd of course 
> still
> keep some patteries inline) The question is whether it will be more hassle
> than we realize to re-fill them and inspect them. Some people told me
> quarterly inspections are needed, or sometimes they do not start when
> needed.
>
> We are already connected to building generators, where we were allowed to,
> so we are looking at sites where our only option was to put in our own.
> I'm still uncertain what objections or preferences property management 
> would
> have for this type stuff.  For example, whether they would be concerned
> about it blowing up if a gas leak occured.
>
> I actually have one building in mind wher egetting a new electrical
> connector from the roof to the ground would be really a big pain. Would
> require Xray and drilling every floor of 20.
> There I'd like to put a roof mounted propaine generator. I was thinking
> maybe the best option is to just have a small external tank, and swap the
> tank after use?
>
> I would think where there is pre-existing riser space, I'd want to mount 
> on
> ground level, and run thick gauge AC wire up.
>
> Mostly I was wondering if management companies look for specific features
> for the device, or if Generac would offer all standard features to meet 
> the
> requirements of code and property managers.
>
> For our smaller watt sites, we'd of course stick with batteries.
>
> Tom DeReggi
> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
>
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Patrick Shoemaker" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
>
>
>  Yes, it's possible to get a generator installed on a roof, but it will
> be an expensive project in our area due to the code compliance issues.
> However, most commercial buildings will have a preexisting emergency
> power system for critical loads installed already. There are strict
> requirements such as sub 10 second startup times, routine testing, and
> fuel availability requirements. If you talk to the building engineer,
> you might be able to convince them to allow you a small amount of power
> from an emergency circuit. The buildings I am in do this for most of
> their tenants for phone systems, etc.
>
> Failing that, have an electrician run conduit to the parking lot and
> place a power inlet down there. Be sure to have 24 hours of battery
> capacity, and use a trailer-mounted generator in the parking lot for the
> rare outage that lasts long

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Travis Johnson]

It does no good to run shielded cable if you aren't using shielded
RJ-45 ends as well. ;)

Travis
Microserv

Josh Luthman wrote:

  You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker wrote:

  
  
We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector after
we crimp it on.
Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman 

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Travis Johnson]

Yes, but in most shielded cable we get, the drain wire is just a bare,
silver wire inside the cover like that one.

If you aren't grounding that, you aren't really doing anything but
wasting money on cable... :(

Travis


Josh Luthman wrote:

  *Face plant*

Never heard of those before...

I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire?  It doesn't
drain water, but is conductive - is this right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth."
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker wrote:

  
  
Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100'
long
lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board.

Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good
grounded POE injector == no problems for many years

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman 

Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports

[Blair Davis]

The switch is outside the shield, and if I cold find them, I could do
it myself.  but, if someone else is going to do them, I'll be a client
.

Butch Evans wrote:

  On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 04:25 -0400, Blair Davis wrote:
  
  
But, can it be repaired cost effectively?  

  
  
All repairs are $30 for qty over 20.  We charge $35 per board for under
20 per order.  For a 411, that is probably NOT cost effective.  For most
other boards, it is.  There is very little that we cannot replace on
these SBC.  I am in the process of gathering the required chips, but I
have the ethernet chips for nearly all the routerboards and I have the
power controllers and supporting electronics as well.  With a few
exceptions, I either have in stock, or on the way, everything that is
needed to repair about 90%+ of any problem they would have.

  
  
How about the diversity switch on the UBNT sr2 and sr5 cards?

  
  
I have not checked on the cost for that part.  I would imagine that we
would be able to replace this part, but I have not tried working on
these cards, yet.  The problem with the radio cards, is the rf shield.
Getting it off is not a problem, but getting it back into place without
changing the rf properties is a bit more challenging and I do not have
the proper equipment to guarantee that we have not changed the
properties of the card (and therefore the FCC certification).

  







WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Josh Luthman]

Mmm so the recommended cable for PTP600, the superior essex bbdge or
something, doesn't have this wire but is shielded.  What's the purpose
of the drain wire if the shielding and connectors are what's
grounding?

On 8/3/09, Travis Johnson  wrote:
> Yes, but in most shielded cable we get, the drain wire is just a bare,
> silver wire inside the cover like that one.
>
> If you aren't grounding that, you aren't really doing anything but wasting
> money on cable... :(
>
> Travis
>
>
> Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>> *Face plant*
>>
>> Never heard of those before...
>>
>> I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire?  It doesn't
>> drain water, but is conductive - is this right?
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> improbable, must be the truth."
>> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
>>> Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100'
>>> long
>>> lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board.
>>>
>>> Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good
>>> grounded POE injector == no problems for many years
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman >>

 wrote:


 You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth."
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


 On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker >>>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector
>

 after

>
> we crimp it on.
> Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman <
>

 j...@imaginenetworksllc.com

>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a few
>> weeks ago.
>>
>> On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
>>> We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in
>>>
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>
>>> country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded
>>> cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
>>> installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded
>>>

 PacWireless

>>
>> POE
>>
>>>
>>> injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning
>>>
>>
>> related
>>
>>>
>>> service call.
>>> We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of
>>>
>
> truck
>
>>>
>>> rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>

 Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA,

>>
>> lightning,
>>

 whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were

>>>
>>> replaced,
>>>

 necessarily, by a newer board.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,


 however


 improbable, must be the truth."
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


 On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess <

>
> dmburg...@linktechs.net
>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your
>
>>
>> vendor?
>>
>
> And/or like I suggested overclocked.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:
>

 wireless-boun...@wispa.org

>
> ]
>
>>
>> On
>>
>
> Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
> Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
>
> Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of
>
>>>
>>> the
>>>
>
> box
>
>
> lately?  We purchased four this year so far and one beeped once
>

 only

>>
>> on
>>
>
> 18v not higher or loser voltages but it never beeped tw

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Jayson Baker]

Yea... I don't think it's black, just how the picture was taken.  It's
usually a silver or gold wire, seperate from the others and not insulated.
Sometimes it's stranded as opposed to being solid.  You don't necessarily
have to solder it - but make sure it's got a good electrical connection to
the shielded RJ45 connector.  And that the shield of the RJ45 connector has
a good electrical connection to the boards plug.  And the antenna to the
board.  And the RJ45 to the POE, and POE to ground.

You get the idea.

Like I said, we have thousands of these in service in Colorado--all that use
shielded cable have no problems at all.  Those that don't are guaranteed
problems sooner or later.
Our Costa Rica operation doesn't use shielded cable (supposedly it's too
costly to import), so everytime there's a storm dozens of boards are thrown
away.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> *Face plant*
>
> Never heard of those before...
>
> I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire?  It doesn't
> drain water, but is conductive - is this right?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker  >wrote:
>
> > Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
> > Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100'
> > long
> > lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board.
> >
> > Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a good
> > grounded POE injector == no problems for many years
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> > > improbable, must be the truth."
> > > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker  > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector
> > > after
> > > > we crimp it on.
> > > > Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman <
> > > j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a
> few
> > > > > weeks ago.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> > > > > > Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
> > > > > > We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in
> > the
> > > > > > country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without
> shielded
> > > > > > cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
> > > > > > installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded
> > > PacWireless
> > > > > POE
> > > > > > injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a
> lightning
> > > > > related
> > > > > > service call.
> > > > > > We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost
> of
> > > > truck
> > > > > > rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA,
> > > > > lightning,
> > > > > >> whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were
> > replaced,
> > > > > >> necessarily, by a newer board.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Josh Luthman
> > > > > >> Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > > >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > > >> 1100 Wayne St
> > > > > >> Suite 1337
> > > > > >> Troy, OH 45373
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
> > > however
> > > > > >> improbable, must be the truth."
> > > > > >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess <
> > > > dmburg...@linktechs.net
> > > > > >> >wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by
> your
> > > > > vendor?
> > > > > >> > And/or like I suggested overclocked.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > -Original Message-
> > > > > >> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:
> > > wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> > > > ]
> > > > > On
> > > > > >> > Behalf Of Forbes Mercy
> > > > > >> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 6:53 PM
> > > > > >> > To: WISPA General List
> > > > > >> > Subject: [WISPA] Defective Microtik
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Is anybody having problems with R433AH's Microtik cards out of
> > the
> > > > box
> > > > > >> > lately?  We purchased four

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Jayson Baker]

The shield does just that - shield, i.e. from interference.
The drain wire does just that - drains errant static buildup, etc.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

> Mmm so the recommended cable for PTP600, the superior essex bbdge or
> something, doesn't have this wire but is shielded.  What's the purpose
> of the drain wire if the shielding and connectors are what's
> grounding?
>
> On 8/3/09, Travis Johnson  wrote:
> > Yes, but in most shielded cable we get, the drain wire is just a bare,
> > silver wire inside the cover like that one.
> >
> > If you aren't grounding that, you aren't really doing anything but
> wasting
> > money on cable... :(
> >
> > Travis
> >
> >
> > Josh Luthman wrote:
> >>
> >> *Face plant*
> >>
> >> Never heard of those before...
> >>
> >> I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire?  It
> doesn't
> >> drain water, but is conductive - is this right?
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg
> >>
> >> Josh Luthman
> >> Office: 937-552-2340
> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> >> 1100 Wayne St
> >> Suite 1337
> >> Troy, OH 45373
> >>
> >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> >> improbable, must be the truth."
> >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
> >>> Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a 100'
> >>> long
> >>> lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board.
> >>>
> >>> Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a
> good
> >>> grounded POE injector == no problems for many years
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
> >>>
> 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>  You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?
> 
>  Josh Luthman
>  Office: 937-552-2340
>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>  1100 Wayne St
>  Suite 1337
>  Troy, OH 45373
> 
>  "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>  improbable, must be the truth."
>  --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
>  On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker  
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector
> >
> 
>  after
> 
> >
> > we crimp it on.
> > Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman <
> >
> 
>  j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
> 
> >>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a
> few
> >> weeks ago.
> >>
> >> On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
> >>> We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without shielded
> >>> cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
> >>> installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded
> >>>
> 
>  PacWireless
> 
> >>
> >> POE
> >>
> >>>
> >>> injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a lightning
> >>>
> >>
> >> related
> >>
> >>>
> >>> service call.
> >>> We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of
> >>>
> >
> > truck
> >
> >>>
> >>> rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> 
>  Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA,
> 
> >>
> >> lightning,
> >>
> 
>  whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were
> 
> >>>
> >>> replaced,
> >>>
> 
>  necessarily, by a newer board.
> 
>  Josh Luthman
>  Office: 937-552-2340
>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>  1100 Wayne St
>  Suite 1337
>  Troy, OH 45373
> 
>  "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
> 
> 
>  however
> 
> 
>  improbable, must be the truth."
>  --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> 
> 
>  On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess <
> 
> >
> > dmburg...@linktechs.net
> >
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged by your
> >
> >>
> >> vendor?
> >>
> >
> > And/or like I suggested overclocked.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:
> >
>

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Chuck Hogg]

Yea, we solder and heat shrink the ends on all our tower gear.  Less
problems, but still doesn't stop direct strikes, lol.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jayson Baker
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:09 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

Yea... I don't think it's black, just how the picture was taken.  It's
usually a silver or gold wire, seperate from the others and not
insulated.
Sometimes it's stranded as opposed to being solid.  You don't
necessarily
have to solder it - but make sure it's got a good electrical connection
to
the shielded RJ45 connector.  And that the shield of the RJ45 connector
has
a good electrical connection to the boards plug.  And the antenna to the
board.  And the RJ45 to the POE, and POE to ground.

You get the idea.

Like I said, we have thousands of these in service in Colorado--all that
use
shielded cable have no problems at all.  Those that don't are guaranteed
problems sooner or later.
Our Costa Rica operation doesn't use shielded cable (supposedly it's too
costly to import), so everytime there's a storm dozens of boards are
thrown
away.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:46 PM, Josh Luthman
wrote:

> *Face plant*
>
> Never heard of those before...
>
> I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire?  It
doesn't
> drain water, but is conductive - is this right?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
> improbable, must be the truth."
> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker  >wrote:
>
> > Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
> > Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a
100'
> > long
> > lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board.
> >
> > Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a
good
> > grounded POE injector == no problems for many years
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?
> > >
> > > Josh Luthman
> > > Office: 937-552-2340
> > > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > 1100 Wayne St
> > > Suite 1337
> > > Troy, OH 45373
> > >
> > > "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
however
> > > improbable, must be the truth."
> > > --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker
 > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45
connector
> > > after
> > > > we crimp it on.
> > > > Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman <
> > > j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs
here a
> few
> > > > > weeks ago.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> > > > > > Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
> > > > > > We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst
lightning in
> > the
> > > > > > country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without
> shielded
> > > > > > cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
> > > > > > installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded
> > > PacWireless
> > > > > POE
> > > > > > injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a
> lightning
> > > > > related
> > > > > > service call.
> > > > > > We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the
cost
> of
> > > > truck
> > > > > > rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware,
DOA,
> > > > > lightning,
> > > > > >> whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were
> > replaced,
> > > > > >> necessarily, by a newer board.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Josh Luthman
> > > > > >> Office: 937-552-2340
> > > > > >> Direct: 937-552-2343
> > > > > >> 1100 Wayne St
> > > > > >> Suite 1337
> > > > > >> Troy, OH 45373
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which
remains,
> > > however
> > > > > >> improbable, must be the truth."
> > > > > >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess <
> > > > dmburg...@linktechs.net
> > > > > >> >wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> > Nothing that I have seen.  Sure they were not repackaged
by
> your
> > > > > vendor?
> > > > > >> > And/or like I suggested overclocked.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > -Original Message-
> >

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[jp]

On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 05:58:11PM -0400, Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
> 
> I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: 
> $1500 including shipping.
> 
> Patrick Shoemaker
> Vector Data Systems LLC
> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
> 

Mind sharing where to get AGM batts like that for that price?

-- 
/*
Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
*/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Josh Luthman]

So the superior essex cabling with no drain wire is no good?

On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> The shield does just that - shield, i.e. from interference.
> The drain wire does just that - drains errant static buildup, etc.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:
>
>> Mmm so the recommended cable for PTP600, the superior essex bbdge or
>> something, doesn't have this wire but is shielded.  What's the purpose
>> of the drain wire if the shielding and connectors are what's
>> grounding?
>>
>> On 8/3/09, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>> > Yes, but in most shielded cable we get, the drain wire is just a bare,
>> > silver wire inside the cover like that one.
>> >
>> > If you aren't grounding that, you aren't really doing anything but
>> wasting
>> > money on cable... :(
>> >
>> > Travis
>> >
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman wrote:
>> >>
>> >> *Face plant*
>> >>
>> >> Never heard of those before...
>> >>
>> >> I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire?  It
>> doesn't
>> >> drain water, but is conductive - is this right?
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg
>> >>
>> >> Josh Luthman
>> >> Office: 937-552-2340
>> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >> 1100 Wayne St
>> >> Suite 1337
>> >> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> >> improbable, must be the truth."
>> >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
>> >>> Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a
>> >>> 100'
>> >>> long
>> >>> lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board.
>> >>>
>> >>> Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a
>> good
>> >>> grounded POE injector == no problems for many years
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>> >>>
>> 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?
>> 
>>  Josh Luthman
>>  Office: 937-552-2340
>>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>>  1100 Wayne St
>>  Suite 1337
>>  Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>  "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>>  improbable, must be the truth."
>>  --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>> 
>> 
>>  On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker > 
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45 connector
>> >
>> 
>>  after
>> 
>> >
>> > we crimp it on.
>> > Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> >
>> 
>>  j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>> 
>> >>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a
>> few
>> >> weeks ago.
>> >>
>> >> On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
>> >>> We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> the
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without
>> >>> shielded
>> >>> cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
>> >>> installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded
>> >>>
>> 
>>  PacWireless
>> 
>> >>
>> >> POE
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a
>> >>> lightning
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> related
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> service call.
>> >>> We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost of
>> >>>
>> >
>> > truck
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> 
>>  Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA,
>> 
>> >>
>> >> lightning,
>> >>
>> 
>>  whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> replaced,
>> >>>
>> 
>>  necessarily, by a newer board.
>> 
>>  Josh Luthman
>>  Office: 937-552-2340
>>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>>  1100 Wayne St
>>  Suite 1337
>>  Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>  "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
>> 
>> 
>>  however
>> 
>> 
>>  improbable, must be the truth."
>>  --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>> 
>> 
>>  On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Dennis Burgess <
>> 
>> >
>> > dmburg...@linktechs.net
>> >
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >

Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator

[jp]

On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 05:58:11PM -0400, Patrick Shoemaker wrote:
> I think you'll find that to get a propane/NG generator installed on a 
> commercial building rooftop, you'll be looking at $10k minimum using 
> even the cheapest Generac air-cooled units. You'll need a roofing 
> company to come out and modify the roof to provide a mounting surface 
> for the generator, that will probably be the biggest cost. Getting 
> management comfortable with modifying a $300k roof membrane could be an 
> issue as well. Then getting gas to the unit from the building's gas 
> supply will require a plumbing contractor, permits, inspections. Then 
> the electrical hookup- more permits and inspections and a licensed EC.

Also add a $1-3k for a good auto transfer switch.

Maintenance such as oil changes and testing can also run a couple 
hundred a year in labor and materials, so that adds up over the life of 
the backup power solution. 

We've also seen propane delivery companies forget to keep the tanks full 
due to the unpredictable propane usage. And we've had weather so bad, 
propane trucks couldn't refill till spring if they wanted to.

I am a big fan of whole building generators though. It's warm and fuzzy 
to keep a building going like normal when nobody else has power.

I certainly understand the need for planning power consumption to scale 
with needs and growth. We consider power consumption in almost every 
equipment purchase or upgrade. Many upgrades decrease power consumption, 
like newer managed switches or newer PC hardware, making site runtime 
better.

> I just got a quote for qty 8 110AH 12v AGM batteries for a new site: 
> $1500 including shipping.
> 
> A note on the Generac air-cooled generators. They break. All generators 
> break. The key is routine testing and PM. The generac air-cooled models 
> don't have any provision for automatic alarm reporting. So when a 
> battery dies or gas valve sticks or spark plug fouls or whatever, you 
> won't know about it until a manual site inspection or the power goes 
> out. The better generators (and the Generac liquid cooled models) have 
> contact closures or RS232 interfaces to report these conditions to your 
> site monitoring system, in turn notifying you back at the NOC.
> 
> 
> Patrick Shoemaker
> Vector Data Systems LLC
> shoemak...@vectordatasystems.com
> office: (301) 358-1690 x36
> http://www.vectordatasystems.com
> 
> 
> Tom DeReggi wrote:
> > We also use the triplite APS inverters with good quality Gel cell. 
> > Actually, 
> > we got a good 15 years out of the existing C&D batteries, because we 
> > inherited them from Teligent days :-)
> > But new, qty 4- 12V 150AH batteries in series for about 3500watt and decent 
> > run-time is $1400. + $800 for replacement inverters.  (The Triplites worked 
> > really well, but about half of them died by the end of eight years. We 
> > matched good inverters with good pre-existing batteries and vice versa.)  
> > So 
> > our thought was Why not buy a $2000 generator for the run-time and 
> > load, 
> > and then several smaller UPSes for infront to cover the surges, power 
> > conditioning, and monitoring? Ones that keep running even when batteries 
> > short out.  Part of the reason we are investigating is that we now have 
> > duplicate need of devices to power.  Some are AC devices like PC routers. 
> > Some are 20-24VDC w/AC adapters. Some are new licensed gear running on 48V. 
> > Cost is increased having long battery run time on both seperate AC and DC 
> > backup power subsystems. And how do we plan for load growth? How many new 
> > radios installed will be AC or DC? Unlicensed versus Licensed? We really 
> > dont know in advance.  There is a lot of power waste going from AC to DC to 
> > AC to DC.
> > 
> > The thought was... If long run time was accomplished by the propaine 
> > generator, both DC and AC battery subsystems could be installed with lower 
> > cost lower run-time batteries.  We'd still need to account for max watts 
> > growth for each subsystem, but we could way reduce AH requirements for both 
> > subsystems.
> > 
> > Or am I making this to complicated, and better just sticking with batteries 
> > :-)
> > 
> > Chris Erikson's idea on solar panels sounded interesting. Although, I bet 
> > my 
> > ruthless roof rights people will try to charge me a monthly colo fee for 
> > them :-(
> > I wonder if I can make the solar panels look like rain/weather shields :-)
> > 
> > Tom DeReggi
> > RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
> > IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
> > 
> > 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "jp" 
> > To: "WISPA General List" 
> > Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 12:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Small auto start generator
> > 
> > 
> >> The tripplite APS is what we use for this. Small generators are a pain.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 02:57:23PM -0430, os10ru...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> You might want something like an inverter (Xantrex for example) which
> >>> includes a

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Eje Gustafsson]

It's a alu shield on it solder it to the connector or strip of some of the
plastic and put a nice clamp with a ground wire to electrical ground. On one
tower install that is what we did used coax 400 size ground kits. Shielded
connectors as well. Not lost a single Ethernet port there for h 5 years.
Kansas is up there in statistics of lightning strikes each year but nothing
like Florida. 

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

So the superior essex cabling with no drain wire is no good?

On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> The shield does just that - shield, i.e. from interference.
> The drain wire does just that - drains errant static buildup, etc.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:
>
>> Mmm so the recommended cable for PTP600, the superior essex bbdge or
>> something, doesn't have this wire but is shielded.  What's the purpose
>> of the drain wire if the shielding and connectors are what's
>> grounding?
>>
>> On 8/3/09, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>> > Yes, but in most shielded cable we get, the drain wire is just a bare,
>> > silver wire inside the cover like that one.
>> >
>> > If you aren't grounding that, you aren't really doing anything but
>> wasting
>> > money on cable... :(
>> >
>> > Travis
>> >
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman wrote:
>> >>
>> >> *Face plant*
>> >>
>> >> Never heard of those before...
>> >>
>> >> I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire?  It
>> doesn't
>> >> drain water, but is conductive - is this right?
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg
>> >>
>> >> Josh Luthman
>> >> Office: 937-552-2340
>> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >> 1100 Wayne St
>> >> Suite 1337
>> >> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
>> >> improbable, must be the truth."
>> >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
>> >>> Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having a
>> >>> 100'
>> >>> long
>> >>> lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your board.
>> >>>
>> >>> Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into a
>> good
>> >>> grounded POE injector == no problems for many years
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>> >>>
>> 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?
>> 
>>  Josh Luthman
>>  Office: 937-552-2340
>>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>>  1100 Wayne St
>>  Suite 1337
>>  Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>  "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
however
>>  improbable, must be the truth."
>>  --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>> 
>> 
>>  On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker
> 
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45
connector
>> >
>> 
>>  after
>> 
>> >
>> > we crimp it on.
>> > Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> >
>> 
>>  j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>> 
>> >>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs here a
>> few
>> >> weeks ago.
>> >>
>> >> On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
>> >>> We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning in
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> the
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without
>> >>> shielded
>> >>> cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
>> >>> installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded
>> >>>
>> 
>>  PacWireless
>> 
>> >>
>> >> POE
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a
>> >>> lightning
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> related
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> service call.
>> >>> We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the cost
of
>> >>>
>> >
>> > truck
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 6:10 PM, Josh Luthman
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> 
>>  Every 133 I used had a problem.  Be it software, hardware, DOA,
>> 
>> >>
>> >> lightning,
>> >>
>> 
>>  whatever.  Out of dozens out there none survived and were
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> replaced,
>> >>>
>> 
>>  n

Re: [WISPA] WTB: MikroTik RB/411 with blown ethernet ports

[Butch Evans]

On Mon, 2009-08-03 at 23:03 -0400, Blair Davis wrote:
> The switch is outside the shield, and if I cold find them, I could do
> it myself.  but, if someone else is going to do them, I'll be a client

I will look for it.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * WISPA Board Member   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * Wired or Wireless Networks   *





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

[Dennis Burgess]

Same here, installation is key!  We have 532s up for at least 4 years on
one tower.  Its 300 foot from a AM 1000watt hotstick.  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Eje Gustafsson
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:31 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

It's a alu shield on it solder it to the connector or strip of some of
the
plastic and put a nice clamp with a ground wire to electrical ground. On
one
tower install that is what we did used coax 400 size ground kits.
Shielded
connectors as well. Not lost a single Ethernet port there for h 5
years.
Kansas is up there in statistics of lightning strikes each year but
nothing
like Florida. 

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Defective Microtik

So the superior essex cabling with no drain wire is no good?

On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
> The shield does just that - shield, i.e. from interference.
> The drain wire does just that - drains errant static buildup, etc.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 9:08 PM, Josh Luthman
> wrote:
>
>> Mmm so the recommended cable for PTP600, the superior essex bbdge or
>> something, doesn't have this wire but is shielded.  What's the
purpose
>> of the drain wire if the shielding and connectors are what's
>> grounding?
>>
>> On 8/3/09, Travis Johnson  wrote:
>> > Yes, but in most shielded cable we get, the drain wire is just a
bare,
>> > silver wire inside the cover like that one.
>> >
>> > If you aren't grounding that, you aren't really doing anything but
>> wasting
>> > money on cable... :(
>> >
>> > Travis
>> >
>> >
>> > Josh Luthman wrote:
>> >>
>> >> *Face plant*
>> >>
>> >> Never heard of those before...
>> >>
>> >> I'm assuming the black wire in this picture is the drain wire?  It
>> doesn't
>> >> drain water, but is conductive - is this right?
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FTP_cable3.jpg
>> >>
>> >> Josh Luthman
>> >> Office: 937-552-2340
>> >> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> >> 1100 Wayne St
>> >> Suite 1337
>> >> Troy, OH 45373
>> >>
>> >> "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
however
>> >> improbable, must be the truth."
>> >> --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:39 PM, Jayson Baker
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Uhm, if you use shielded cable, you must use shielded connectors.
>> >>> Using unshielded connectors, with shielded cable, is like having
a
>> >>> 100'
>> >>> long
>> >>> lightning/static pickup cable that will drain right into your
board.
>> >>>
>> >>> Shielded connectors, shielded cable, drain wire soldered on, into
a
>> good
>> >>> grounded POE injector == no problems for many years
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:36 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>> >>>
>> 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>  You lost me - drain wire?  Soldered onto a plastic rj45?
>> 
>>  Josh Luthman
>>  Office: 937-552-2340
>>  Direct: 937-552-2343
>>  1100 Wayne St
>>  Suite 1337
>>  Troy, OH 45373
>> 
>>  "When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains,
however
>>  improbable, must be the truth."
>>  --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>> 
>> 
>>  On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 10:27 PM, Jayson Baker
> 
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > We also solder the drain wire from the cable onto the RJ45
connector
>> >
>> 
>>  after
>> 
>> >
>> > we crimp it on.
>> > Key is to ensure you have a good ground from A to Z.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Josh Luthman <
>> >
>> 
>>  j...@imaginenetworksllc.com
>> 
>> >>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I am using shielded cable and Pac POEs andd lost all 3 APs
here a
>> few
>> >> weeks ago.
>> >>
>> >> On 8/3/09, Jayson Baker  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Try using shielded cable, and you won't have a problem.
>> >>> We're installed thousands in Colorado (second worst lightning
in
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> the
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> country, next to Florida) and everytime we install without
>> >>> shielded
>> >>> cable-it's junk after a storm.  We use shielded cable on ALL
>> >>> installs-customer installs as well.  And the good grounded
>> >>>
>> 
>>  PacWireless
>> 
>> >>
>> >> POE
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> injectors.  With thousands in service, it's rare we get a
>> >>> lightning
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> related
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> service call.
>> >>> We justify the extra couple dollars in cable by saving the
cost
of
>> >>>
>> >
>> > truck
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> rolls, replacement equipment, and unhappy customers.
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 20

[WISPA] Throttle

[sales]

Question: Which is better? Throttle the cpe at the cpe or at the router?

Currently we have a router setup at each tower site and do bandwidth limiting 
on it with simple queues and the users ip. But we want to setup our billing 
system so the office help can change packages and we just have it login to the 
ip in billing and automatically run a script to set the bandwidth throttle.

But is the a disadvantage to limiting at the cpe vs. the tower?

Thanks,
John Buwa
Michiana Wireless



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/