date:20090915

That's the only way you can get it.  It must be built by a MT
distributor, along with the FCC stickers put on it etc and sold as a
completed FCC Certified System.  Can't build it yourself. 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:00 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Pretty broad statement: MT is FCC Certified :)  
Yes, I believe the wireless cards themselves might be- but even if they
are,
that does not an FCC certified system make.
Please give me some FCC registration numbers of certified systems.
Something
like the RB/card/enclosure combination.
Maybe someone built a system and had it tested and received a number for
*that system*.

Thanks

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

MT is FCC Certified :) 

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of Learn RouterOS

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Marlon-
You asked, and you probably already know what I will say

Airaya and others: FCC Certified
Mikrotik- Not so much
It all depends on if you want to be legal or not.

If you want 802.11, then look at the Ubiquiti Powerstation. Seems to
work
fine for us, just don't mount it outside.

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:19 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Hi All,

I have to upgrade a couple of backhaul systems and I'm wondering what
others

are using.

I've got Airaya gear in place.  I've LOVED it.  That's been some of the
most

reliable gear that I've ever used.

I also like my Mikrotik hardware so far.  We've put quite a bit of it in

over the last year or so.

Both of the links I'm going to replace are indoor units with coax to the

outdoor antennas.  So no fancy weather issues to deal with.

It would be nice to go with Airaya again.  But the MT hardware to do the

same job is about 20% of the cost last time I checked.  I hate to go too

cheap, but I hate to spend too much for no gain.  What are you guys 
using these days?  Again, the antennas and such are already in place,
all I 
need to replace is the indoor ratios.

Why would you install what you put in?

laters,
marlon

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

2009-09-15 Thread Chuck Hogg

While it holds true that you may not be able to get the stickers, this
statement is not true.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

That's the only way you can get it.  It must be built by a MT
distributor, along with the FCC stickers put on it etc and sold as a
completed FCC Certified System.  Can't build it yourself. 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:00 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Pretty broad statement: MT is FCC Certified :)  
Yes, I believe the wireless cards themselves might be- but even if they
are,
that does not an FCC certified system make.
Please give me some FCC registration numbers of certified systems.
Something
like the RB/card/enclosure combination.
Maybe someone built a system and had it tested and received a number for
*that system*.

Thanks

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

MT is FCC Certified :) 

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Marlon-
You asked, and you probably already know what I will say

Airaya and others: FCC Certified
Mikrotik- Not so much
It all depends on if you want to be legal or not.


If you want 802.11, then look at the Ubiquiti Powerstation. Seems to
work
fine for us, just don't mount it outside.

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:19 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Hi All,

I have to upgrade a couple of backhaul systems and I'm wondering what
others

are using.

I've got Airaya gear in place.  I've LOVED it.  That's been some of the
most

reliable gear that I've ever used.

I also like my Mikrotik hardware so far.  We've put quite a bit of it in

over the last year or so.

Both of the links I'm going to replace are indoor units with coax to the

outdoor antennas.  So no fancy weather issues to deal with.

It would be nice to go with Airaya again.  But the MT hardware to do the

same job is about 20% of the cost last time I checked.  I hate to go too

cheap, but I hate to spend too much for no gain.  What are you guys 
using these days?  Again, the antennas and such are already in place,
all I 
need to replace is the indoor ratios.

Why would you install what you put in?

laters,
marlon






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

Yeah, it amazes me how much greed was in the applcation. Some large 
applicants, the wealthiest identified the top number and molded an 
applcation to go for that dollar amount.
For example, Satelite providers approaching 1/2 billion dollars.  Or a State 
asking for 1/50th or more of funds, wanting it all, over their share if each 
state got only 1 grant, to depleat total available funds. Or companies 
like Fiber tower with large total dollar of grants, that caters to Cell 
Phone companies.  Why does a mobile RBOC need to submit, and have their 
income potential restricted, when their wholesale carrier will do it for 
them?
Or Companies like TowerStream, in the top 5 most financed fixed wireless 
companies, and proven unprofitable business models because they overspend, 
applying for Urban markets, that clearly ONLY target HIGH ARPU subs, and 
never in a million years regardless of what their application might say, 
would EVER serve vulnerable LOW ARPU population, in my opinion.

Dont misunderstand me, they are all very fine companies, and I dont blaim 
them for trying to apply. I just dont see how their company profiles would 
match the intent of the programs, or the requirement without grant would 
never be able to cost justify the deployment, or unable to find investment 
to do it criterias.

But with 800+ applicants, there are quite a few for NTIA/RUS to choose from. 
Just because someone applies doesn't mean they'll be selected. I just hope 
NTIA/RUS can see the truth behind the applicants' goals, and make the best 
decissions.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; motorola Canopy User Group 
motor...@wispa.org
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 8:41 PM
Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects


 Here is a link to maps of the projects:

 http://bit.ly/3p2be3

 I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money
 to expand their existing phone networks.   What a crock!

 Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers
 wanting money to upgrade their satellite network.   Since when does that
 actually improve broadband availability?   I guess it is sort of like
 broadband-lite.

 Ack!

 Matt Larsen
 vistabeam.com




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

Realistically, you can't block the application if you can reach less  
than 50% of the households in an area. Plus they are probably applying  
for funds to cover an area larger than (or at least not completely  
coincident with) yours, which would likely make a successful challenge  
improbable at best.

However, BTOP requires that they offer interconnection, and strongly  
encouages them to offer a real wholesale arrangement. It might be  
worth your time to approach them about it.

Chuck
Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 15, 2009, at 8:49 AM, L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org wrote:


 On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county
 that I service, the whole county.
 Questions:
 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my
 standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I
 cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as
 Underserved.  Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked?

 Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but...

 Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow?
 Is blocking even possible?

 I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no?


 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census
 blocks in the county.  ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and
 Cable.  How can that be labeled as Underserved.  If we get one Block
 rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area?

 ---
 there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday)

 (üäö)



 --- 
 --- 
 --- 
 --- 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 --- 
 --- 
 --- 
 --- 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Fatality today

Thanks for the link We just had a nice safety meeting prior to
sending everyone out!

Marco

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:36 AM, RickG rgunder...@gmail.com wrote:
 Actual link is 
 http://www.wirelessestimator.com/t_content.cfm?pagename=Breaking%20News
 Be safe and careful out there guys! -RickG

 On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Blake Bowers bbow...@mozarks.com wrote:
 Justin Stamps, 26 years old, from Wagoner OK
 is the person who lost his life today in Rover MO.

 Audio of the 911 dispatch and response will be available
 at www.wirelessestimator.com later this evening.

 Don't take your organs to heaven,
 heaven knows we need them down here!
 Be an organ donor, sign your donor card today.



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] test ping

test

-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] Hotspot controller

I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik hotspots
and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about 30
locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to integrate
in with Active Directory.

Andy Trimmell
Precision Data Solutions, LLC
PDSWireless
Quick and Simple Internet



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] test ping

pong

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com wrote:

 test

 --
 Marco C. Coelho
 Argon Technologies Inc.
 POB 875
 Greenville, TX 75403-0875
 903-455-5036



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Gatespot or WirelessOrbit

Not sure about your AD requirement though...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
 for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik hotspots
 and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about 30
 locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to integrate
 in with Active Directory.

 Andy Trimmell
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 PDSWireless
 Quick and Simple Internet



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

2009-09-15 Thread Jason Hensley

Can't the Mikrotik do LDAP auth?  Haven't done it myself but seems like I
remember seeing that it can.  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Gatespot or WirelessOrbit

Not sure about your AD requirement though...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
 for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik hotspots
 and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about 30
 locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to integrate
 in with Active Directory.

 Andy Trimmell
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 PDSWireless
 Quick and Simple Internet

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

What many think is the holy grail of the Broadband Wireless Internet
Business is reaching the 100,000 subscriber point then selling out.
There are a few companies taking the buy-out approach to reaching this
goal.  They are offering between $100 to $1200 per subscriber to the
owners that have built these businesses up through their hard work.
They seem to be concentrating on the companies with between 500 and
2000 subscribers.

Most of the time, the management of the purchased companies is not
held on for long after the acquisition, and the quality of the service
and support for the end user is greatly degraded (a great opportunity
for us).

We are offering a different path:

What we propose is to band a large group of companies under our
corporate umbrella.  This will be done with very specific limitations
(for both sides) to ensure all parties are treated equitably.  This is
a no-risk, all-gain proposition!

1. The companies being added will be subsidiaries of Argon
Technologies Inc.  They will operate substantially autonomously still
under their respective company structures and management.
2. Subsidiaries will be financially autonomous from the corporate
company.  All profits or losses will remain the responsibility of that
owner-operator.
3. Subsidiaries will benefit from the substantial buying power our
larger entity can offer.  We will offer significant discounts for CPE,
Bandwidth (various providers), VOIP services, PBX services, 24x7
Support, Towers, and Tower Access.
4. Subsidiaries will be guaranteed a minimum premium for the customers
they bring to the Corporation.  Should we not be able to reach this
minimum for any reason within the contractual time period, they may
opt out of the organization at that time.
5. Subsidiaries will be encouraged to sell services on each others
networks.  This will greatly increase the efficiency of our marketing
dollars.  If you cannot reach a potential customer with your network,
and you can on your neighbors, you both profit!  How many times have
your crews been on a new customers roof and only seen the competitors
access points?  Problem solved!

Once our we reach our target subscriber base we will have to decide
between two different options:

1. Sell out to a larger corporation.
2. Initial Public Offering in the Stock Market.

In either of these two situations, your return on your hard work will
be multiplied greatly verses a simple sell out to a larger ISP.

Sound intriguing?  Let’s talk.


-- 
Marco C. Coelho
Argon Technologies Inc.
POB 875
Greenville, TX 75403-0875
903-455-5036



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

As in AD will be the radius server? Or you need two radius server?

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:21 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik hotspots
and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about 30
locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to integrate
in with Active Directory.

Andy Trimmell
Precision Data Solutions, LLC
PDSWireless
Quick and Simple Internet




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

AD is active directory.  Active directory is Microsoft's bastardization of
LDAP.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:42 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote:

 As in AD will be the radius server? Or you need two radius server?

 ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member
 Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
 LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
 Author of Learn RouterOS


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:21 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
 for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik hotspots
 and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about 30
 locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to integrate
 in with Active Directory.

 Andy Trimmell
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 PDSWireless
 Quick and Simple Internet


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

AD doesn't have the ability to create usernames and passwords on its
own. We have a radius server that checks in with AD for current
customers. We want to be able to give current customers access through
all of our hotspots but people that aren't the ability to purchase time
when they're within hotspot range. We're looking for a complete billing
and account creation solution. Very little interaction by us so they
people can just hit a hotspot, pay for time, surf, go home.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:42 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

As in AD will be the radius server? Or you need two radius server?

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of Learn RouterOS


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:21 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik hotspots
and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about 30
locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to integrate
in with Active Directory.

Andy Trimmell
Precision Data Solutions, LLC
PDSWireless
Quick and Simple Internet




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Anyone know the % Wirelessorbit takes in revenue per customer or is it a
monthly cost flat rate for their service?

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Gatespot or WirelessOrbit

Not sure about your AD requirement though...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
 for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik
hotspots
 and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about
30
 locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to
integrate
 in with Active Directory.

 Andy Trimmell
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 PDSWireless
 Quick and Simple Internet

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Correct me if I'm wrong but if your radius server already checks AD then
just have the MT look at your radius server.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 AD doesn't have the ability to create usernames and passwords on its
 own. We have a radius server that checks in with AD for current
 customers. We want to be able to give current customers access through
 all of our hotspots but people that aren't the ability to purchase time
 when they're within hotspot range. We're looking for a complete billing
 and account creation solution. Very little interaction by us so they
 people can just hit a hotspot, pay for time, surf, go home.

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 As in AD will be the radius server? Or you need two radius server?

 ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member
 Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
 LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
 Author of Learn RouterOS


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:21 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
 for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik hotspots
 and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about 30
 locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to integrate
 in with Active Directory.

 Andy Trimmell
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 PDSWireless
 Quick and Simple Internet


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

That is true but there still isn't any account creation or billing
solutions but yes pointing the Mikrotiks would work if we were giving
away free wifi somewhere.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Correct me if I'm wrong but if your radius server already checks AD then
just have the MT look at your radius server.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 AD doesn't have the ability to create usernames and passwords on its
 own. We have a radius server that checks in with AD for current
 customers. We want to be able to give current customers access through
 all of our hotspots but people that aren't the ability to purchase
time
 when they're within hotspot range. We're looking for a complete
billing
 and account creation solution. Very little interaction by us so they
 people can just hit a hotspot, pay for time, surf, go home.

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 As in AD will be the radius server? Or you need two radius server?

 ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member
 Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
 LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
 Author of Learn RouterOS

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:21 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
 for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik
hotspots
 and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about
30
 locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to
integrate
 in with Active Directory.

 Andy Trimmell
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 PDSWireless
 Quick and Simple Internet

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

I wonder how they make any money giving it away for free. Maybe I need
to give them a call.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Andy -

If it hasn't changed they have 2 options

1) Free.  WirelessOrbit sticks a logo on the portal page

2) Monthly cost based on concurrent users (that is users in the
database,
not how many are online at a time)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 Anyone know the % Wirelessorbit takes in revenue per customer or is it
a
 monthly cost flat rate for their service?

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 Gatespot or WirelessOrbit

 Not sure about your AD requirement though...

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

 On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Andy Trimmell
 atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

  I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your
suggestions
  for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik
 hotspots
  and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about
 30
  locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to
 integrate
  in with Active Directory.

  Andy Trimmell
  Precision Data Solutions, LLC
  PDSWireless
  Quick and Simple Internet

  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/

  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Turn on the MT hotspot and have it use radius authentication.  The users
that work for the hotspot are in the ip hotspot users db and radius.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:52 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 That is true but there still isn't any account creation or billing
 solutions but yes pointing the Mikrotiks would work if we were giving
 away free wifi somewhere.

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:49 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 Correct me if I'm wrong but if your radius server already checks AD then
 just have the MT look at your radius server.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


 On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Andy Trimmell
 atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

  AD doesn't have the ability to create usernames and passwords on its
  own. We have a radius server that checks in with AD for current
  customers. We want to be able to give current customers access through
  all of our hotspots but people that aren't the ability to purchase
 time
  when they're within hotspot range. We're looking for a complete
 billing
  and account creation solution. Very little interaction by us so they
  people can just hit a hotspot, pay for time, surf, go home.
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
  Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
  Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:42 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller
 
  As in AD will be the radius server? Or you need two radius server?
 
  ---
  Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
  WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
  Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
  WISPA Vendor Member
  Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
  LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
  Author of Learn RouterOS
 
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
  Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
  Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:21 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot controller
 
  I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
  for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik
 hotspots
  and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about
 30
  locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to
 integrate
  in with Active Directory.
 
  Andy Trimmell
  Precision Data Solutions, LLC
  PDSWireless
  Quick and Simple Internet
 
 
 
 
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
  
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
  
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

It's like the free version of Dropbox.  Works 100% just has a limitation
here or there to guilt you into paying them.  Costs them little for every
subscriber.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 I wonder how they make any money giving it away for free. Maybe I need
 to give them a call.

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:49 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 Andy -

 If it hasn't changed they have 2 options

 1) Free.  WirelessOrbit sticks a logo on the portal page

 2) Monthly cost based on concurrent users (that is users in the
 database,
 not how many are online at a time)

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


 On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Andy Trimmell
 atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

  Anyone know the % Wirelessorbit takes in revenue per customer or is it
 a
  monthly cost flat rate for their service?
 
  -Original Message-
  From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
 On
  Behalf Of Josh Luthman
  Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:28 AM
  To: WISPA General List
  Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller
 
  Gatespot or WirelessOrbit
 
  Not sure about your AD requirement though...
 
  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373
 
  When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
  improbable, must be the truth.
  --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
 
 
  On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Andy Trimmell
  atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:
 
   I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your
 suggestions
   for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik
  hotspots
   and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about
  30
   locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to
  integrate
   in with Active Directory.
  
   Andy Trimmell
   Precision Data Solutions, LLC
   PDSWireless
   Quick and Simple Internet
  
  
  
  
 
 
  
   WISPA Wants You! Join today!
   http://signup.wispa.org/
  
  
 
 
  
  
   WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
  
   Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
   http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
  
   Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
  
 
 
 
 
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
  
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives:

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

2009-09-15 Thread Mark McElvy

Are you saying you have a RADIUS server that can read AD's users or are
you using Microsoft's IAS as a RADIUS server? You could have Freeside
setup to do your new hotspot users, accounts setup automatically via the
Mikrotik interface. 

Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

AD doesn't have the ability to create usernames and passwords on its
own. We have a radius server that checks in with AD for current
customers. We want to be able to give current customers access through
all of our hotspots but people that aren't the ability to purchase time
when they're within hotspot range. We're looking for a complete billing
and account creation solution. Very little interaction by us so they
people can just hit a hotspot, pay for time, surf, go home.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

2009-09-15 Thread Jason Hensley

It's really not that hard to code a web page that will allow someone to sign
up, get their CC info and process it, and then stick their username /
password into either your RADIUS server database or even create an AD user.
Mikrotik can host the page or I think you can have the 'tik forward out to
an external page. 



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:53 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

That is true but there still isn't any account creation or billing
solutions but yes pointing the Mikrotiks would work if we were giving
away free wifi somewhere.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Correct me if I'm wrong but if your radius server already checks AD then
just have the MT look at your radius server.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 AD doesn't have the ability to create usernames and passwords on its
 own. We have a radius server that checks in with AD for current
 customers. We want to be able to give current customers access through
 all of our hotspots but people that aren't the ability to purchase
time
 when they're within hotspot range. We're looking for a complete
billing
 and account creation solution. Very little interaction by us so they
 people can just hit a hotspot, pay for time, surf, go home.

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:42 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 As in AD will be the radius server? Or you need two radius server?

 ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member
 Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
 LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
 Author of Learn RouterOS


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:21 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
 for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik
hotspots
 and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about
30
 locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to
integrate
 in with Active Directory.

 Andy Trimmell
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 PDSWireless
 Quick and Simple Internet




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/





 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

MS IAS.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mark McElvy
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:57 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Are you saying you have a RADIUS server that can read AD's users or are
you using Microsoft's IAS as a RADIUS server? You could have Freeside
setup to do your new hotspot users, accounts setup automatically via the
Mikrotik interface. 

Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:46 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

AD doesn't have the ability to create usernames and passwords on its
own. We have a radius server that checks in with AD for current
customers. We want to be able to give current customers access through
all of our hotspots but people that aren't the ability to purchase time
when they're within hotspot range. We're looking for a complete billing
and account creation solution. Very little interaction by us so they
people can just hit a hotspot, pay for time, surf, go home.

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

2009-09-15 Thread ralph

No % at all.
It is fixed and is not much. They tell about it at
http://www.wirelessorbit.com/

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Andy Trimmell
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:48 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Anyone know the % Wirelessorbit takes in revenue per customer or is it a
monthly cost flat rate for their service?

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Gatespot or WirelessOrbit

Not sure about your AD requirement though...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
 for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik
hotspots
 and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about
30
 locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to
integrate
 in with Active Directory.

 Andy Trimmell
 Precision Data Solutions, LLC
 PDSWireless
 Quick and Simple Internet






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/





 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

2009-09-15 Thread ralph

2. is not actually correct.

They have a couple of levels of pay service, depending on number of actual
hotspot gateways (routers) you have. The monthly cost is very low.
Their service is great- we have used them since they began and I have
visited their office twice.

They process payments for you through Paypal or Authorize.net (we use this)
and Wireless Orbit does not take a cut of any of your money like all the
others do.

If you want to see what a Mikrotik login portal through Wireless Orbit looks
like, go to one of ours.  Feel free to sign up and buy some Internet if you
want grin 
https://portal.wirelessorbit.com/portal/index.php?portal_id=rewsMlS6KeHyVWVl
pKW-HA,,

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Andy -

If it hasn't changed they have 2 options

1) Free.  WirelessOrbit sticks a logo on the portal page

2) Monthly cost based on concurrent users (that is users in the database,
not how many are online at a time)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 Anyone know the % Wirelessorbit takes in revenue per customer or is it a
 monthly cost flat rate for their service?

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 Gatespot or WirelessOrbit

 Not sure about your AD requirement though...

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


 On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Andy Trimmell
 atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

  I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your suggestions
  for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik
 hotspots
  and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about
 30
  locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to
 integrate
  in with Active Directory.
 
  Andy Trimmell
  Precision Data Solutions, LLC
  PDSWireless
  Quick and Simple Internet
 
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 
 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/





 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

We use user manager without issues with Auth.net.

---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of Learn RouterOS

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of ralph
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:10 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

2. is not actually correct.

They have a couple of levels of pay service, depending on number of
actual
hotspot gateways (routers) you have. The monthly cost is very low.
Their service is great- we have used them since they began and I have
visited their office twice.

They process payments for you through Paypal or Authorize.net (we use
this)
and Wireless Orbit does not take a cut of any of your money like all the
others do.

If you want to see what a Mikrotik login portal through Wireless Orbit
looks
like, go to one of ours.  Feel free to sign up and buy some Internet if
you
want grin 
https://portal.wirelessorbit.com/portal/index.php?portal_id=rewsMlS6KeHy
VWVl
pKW-HA,,

Ralph

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:49 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

Andy -

If it hasn't changed they have 2 options

1) Free.  WirelessOrbit sticks a logo on the portal page

2) Monthly cost based on concurrent users (that is users in the
database,
not how many are online at a time)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Andy Trimmell
atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

 Anyone know the % Wirelessorbit takes in revenue per customer or is it
a
 monthly cost flat rate for their service?

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
 Behalf Of Josh Luthman
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:28 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Hotspot controller

 Gatespot or WirelessOrbit

 Not sure about your AD requirement though...

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373

 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
 improbable, must be the truth.
 --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


 On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Andy Trimmell
 atrimm...@precisionds.comwrote:

  I'm sure this has been asked before but what are all your
suggestions
  for hotspot controllers? We will be running primarily Mikrotik
 hotspots
  and we already have a RADIUS server in place. We'll be running about
 30
  locations from one central RADIUS server. It will also need to
 integrate
  in with Active Directory.
 
  Andy Trimmell
  Precision Data Solutions, LLC
  PDSWireless
  Quick and Simple Internet
 
 
 
 


 
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 


 
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/







 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/






 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad applications.
The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or in 
conflict of interest if we dont tell them.
Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of interest 
without telling them.

I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous area. 
The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to look down 
to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and aren't 
underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that are 
attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas, with the 
hope no one will protest it.

There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT creating 
competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over any 
other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti-American,and 
anti-fair-competition in my mind.

To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no funds, 
is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business, and to 
risk throwing away the much investment made by those original entreprenures.

What I recommend is that people diligently protest, but with fact, and 
suggested resolution. The goal should NOT to prevent the party from gaining 
a grant to serve truely underserved/unserved areas, but to instead incourage 
NTIA/RUS to force the applicant to revise its applicant to remedy the 
conflict of Interest.  Also note that once an area gets a grant, it very 
possible that NTIA/RUS may never give another grant to that same area.  When 
this is done at the Census Block level it is no problem, because applicants 
can narrow down to each area that they serve and dont serve. But when 
someone lists an ENTIRE County, it risks that future legitimate application 
for needy census blocks will be denied because of the area being recorded as 
already served by a grant applicant.  Is it right for an Entire county to be 
given to a new provider? Remember applicants are required to serve ALL 
customer in an area.  That means they will be getting grant money to put you 
out of business.

I also think there is a misconception that the protestor must prove the data 
that shows its not underserved. I do not believe that is 100% true. I think 
ther eis a clear valid arguement that if an applicant cant afford to gather 
the mapping data to file for their own grant, they surely should not be 
required to spent lots of money to map the errors in other people's 
application.
I believe aprotestor should only have to protest to the level that creates a 
reasonable amount of doubt about the applicant.  The burden to prove 
coverage is on the applicant's original submission. So if you protest an 
applicant by saying it is a served area by cable and fios, the applicant's 
original data should have to prove it FIOS and Cable does not overlap it, 
not you.
If they submitted incomplete documetnation, that is there problem, and 
should lead to the disqualification of their application.

You being a provider in the area with a small market share, will not likely 
be enough to protest an application on its own, but it should still be 
possible to build a case.
For example, lets say there are three applicants, and two were careful not 
tto overlap your coverage, but one applicant did overlap you. Simple state 
that the applicant that overlapped you clearly did not do his homework to 
isolate which areas are served or not, and that you support the other two 
applicants that properly identified and avoided conflciting areas.

The idea is to develop support for the applications that won't harm you. And 
give the NTIA/RUS an option to award grants that will create possitive press 
and not negative press.
I beleive the overnment wants this program to besuccessful, and nobody wants 
an aftermath press stating things like grant money puts local businesses 
out of business.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects



On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:

 Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county
 that I service, the whole county.
 Questions:
 1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my
 standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I
 cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as
 Underserved.  Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked?

Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but...

Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow?
Is blocking even possible?

I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no?


 2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census
 blocks in the county.  ALL the cities have My

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. The 
NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer money 
optimally wisely and benefit the public, and
adhere to the NOFA rules.  If you think you can do a better plan, but didn;t 
have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get approved 
if its less good?
And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA what we 
think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the public that 
has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects.

I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that targeted 
truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider 
infrastructure. I plan to support those projects.
For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that would 
directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets.  I plan to 
protest that 20%.  Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre-existing 
providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them into the 
proposal to gain their support.  If they didn't do that, they deserve to 
have their applications protested, in my opinion.

As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on applying 
for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and advising that 
the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to projects 
without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny the 
conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe fairly 
considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and isn't 
underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the areas.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects


 

 Seriously?  You would categorize government-subsidized broadband
 expansion
 as capitalistic competition?


 I should have said - receiving some funds and thus increasing the
 speed of biz expansion.
 I see nothing un-capitalistic per se about receiving funds in order to
 revive the economy.

 The real question however is, will *only* the big boys get something
 thus driving the smaller boys out of biz!
 (maybe that is the case in the original posting and I just did not
 know it).


 *If* the stimulus package would be needed in the first place however,
 is of course a completely different topic.

 But seems like I just put my fingers into a wound. Sorry about that.
 Not intended.


 ---
 there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday)



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

2009-09-15 Thread Tim Sylvester

I found this page on the USDA web site with a database of Broadband projects 
funded by the USDA. It looks like this will also be the site that ISPs can use 
to find proposed BIP/BTOP projects in their area and file a challenge. 

You can sign up to receive e-mail when a new Public Notice of Filing (PNF) is 
posted that lists new proposed projects at:

http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/Subscription/Initiate.aspx?action=create

You can search for existing projects at:

http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/SearchTabs.aspx

or look at them on a map at:

http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/AllStatesMap.aspx

You can look up the PNFs and file a response at:

http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/LegalNoticeFiling/List.Aspx

This is a response form which shows you the type of information required to 
file a response/challenge:

http://www.usda.gov/rus/telecom/broadband/pdf/legal-notice-response-form-kk.pdf

USDA uses an online mapping tool to create maps that show service areas. The 
tool requires an account with the USDA eAuthentication system. It may take a 
couple of days to have your account approved, so apply sooner than later. You 
can sign up for an account at: 
https://eauth.sc.egov.usda.gov/eAuth/selfRegistration/selfRegLevel1Step1.jsp

Again, this is what I have found searching the USDA web site. The site has 
language about BIP  BTOP but there has not been an official announcement that 
this is the site that will be used.

Tim


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
 Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:43 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
 
 Realistically, you can't block the application if you can reach less
 than 50% of the households in an area. Plus they are probably applying
 for funds to cover an area larger than (or at least not completely
 coincident with) yours, which would likely make a successful challenge
 improbable at best.
 
 However, BTOP requires that they offer interconnection, and strongly
 encouages them to offer a real wholesale arrangement. It might be
 worth your time to approach them about it.
 
 Chuck
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Sep 15, 2009, at 8:49 AM, L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org
 wrote:
 
 
  On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:20 PM, Steve Barnes wrote:
 
  Digital Bridge has asked for money for Underserved for the county
  that I service, the whole county.
  Questions:
  1. Since I am the only WISP in the Rural areas of my county and my
  standard is 1024/256 with 2.4 and there is 50% of the clients that I
  cant get due to trees. I assume that that will be seen as
  Underserved.  Is there anything that I can do to get this blocked?
 
  Just a quit though - correct me if I am wrong, but...
 
  Isnt blocking competition very un-American somehow?
  Is blocking even possible?
 
  I hope you also applied for getting thru the trees, no?
 
 
  2. Now it appears that they asked for money for all the Census
  blocks in the county.  ALL the cities have My service, DSL, and
  Cable.  How can that be labeled as Underserved.  If we get one Block
  rejected does that stop the one request which would be all my area?
 
  ---
  there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday)
 
  (üäö)
 
 
 
  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---
  
  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
  http://signup.wispa.org/
  ---
  ---
  ---
  ---
  
 
  WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
  Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
  http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
  Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 
 
 
 
 ---
 -
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 ---
 -
 
 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 
 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 
 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you*  
have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to  
justify it at the census block level.

And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to  
challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even  
50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his  
area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the  
other households...they just care that you don't.

If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than  
his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut  
out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do  
cover it. They went out of their way to encourage gerrymandering in  
the applications, which included the ability to include covered  
territory as long as the total number of already covered households  
was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us).

Chuck

On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad  
 applications.
 The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or  
 in
 conflict of interest if we dont tell them.
 Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of  
 interest
 without telling them.

 I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous  
 area.
 The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to  
 look down
 to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and  
 aren't
 underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that  
 are
 attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas,  
 with the
 hope no one will protest it.

 There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT  
 creating
 competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over  
 any
 other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti-American,and
 anti-fair-competition in my mind.

 To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no  
 funds,
 is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business,  
 and to
 risk throwing away the much investment made by those original  
 entreprenures.

 What I recommend is that people diligently protest, but with fact, and
 suggested resolution. The goal should NOT to prevent the party from  
 gaining
 a grant to serve truely underserved/unserved areas, but to instead  
 incourage
 NTIA/RUS to force the applicant to revise its applicant to remedy the
 conflict of Interest.  Also note that once an area gets a grant, it  
 very
 possible that NTIA/RUS may never give another grant to that same  
 area.  When
 this is done at the Census Block level it is no problem, because  
 applicants
 can narrow down to each area that they serve and dont serve. But when
 someone lists an ENTIRE County, it risks that future legitimate  
 application
 for needy census blocks will be denied because of the area being  
 recorded as
 already served by a grant applicant.  Is it right for an Entire  
 county to be
 given to a new provider? Remember applicants are required to serve ALL
 customer in an area.  That means they will be getting grant money to  
 put you
 out of business.

 I also think there is a misconception that the protestor must prove  
 the data
 that shows its not underserved. I do not believe that is 100% true.  
 I think
 ther eis a clear valid arguement that if an applicant cant afford to  
 gather
 the mapping data to file for their own grant, they surely should not  
 be
 required to spent lots of money to map the errors in other people's
 application.
 I believe aprotestor should only have to protest to the level that  
 creates a
 reasonable amount of doubt about the applicant.  The burden to prove
 coverage is on the applicant's original submission. So if you  
 protest an
 applicant by saying it is a served area by cable and fios, the  
 applicant's
 original data should have to prove it FIOS and Cable does not  
 overlap it,
 not you.
 If they submitted incomplete documetnation, that is there problem, and
 should lead to the disqualification of their application.

 You being a provider in the area with a small market share, will not  
 likely
 be enough to protest an application on its own, but it should still be
 possible to build a case.
 For example, lets say there are three applicants, and two were  
 careful not
 tto overlap your coverage, but one applicant did overlap you. Simple  
 state
 that the applicant that overlapped you clearly did not do his  
 homework to
 isolate which areas are served or not, and that you support the  
 other two
 applicants that properly identified and avoided conflciting areas.

 The idea is to develop support for the applications that won't harm  
 you. And
 give the NTIA/RUS an option to award grants that will create  
 possitive press
 and not negative press.
 I beleive the

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't  
think it's a good plan.

In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly  
disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about  
individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over  
anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage  
area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you  
can find it on line.

The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed  
to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this.

Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms  
about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any  
form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's.

It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out  
what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're  
suggesting as I understood the circular.

Chuck

On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan.  
 The
 NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer  
 money
 optimally wisely and benefit the public, and
 adhere to the NOFA rules.  If you think you can do a better plan,  
 but didn;t
 have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get  
 approved
 if its less good?
 And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA  
 what we
 think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the  
 public that
 has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects.

 I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that  
 targeted
 truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider
 infrastructure. I plan to support those projects.
 For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that  
 would
 directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets.  I  
 plan to
 protest that 20%.  Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- 
 existing
 providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them  
 into the
 proposal to gain their support.  If they didn't do that, they  
 deserve to
 have their applications protested, in my opinion.

 As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on  
 applying
 for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and  
 advising that
 the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to  
 projects
 without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny the
 conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe  
 fairly
 considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and  
 isn't
 underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the  
 areas.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:19 AM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects




 Seriously?  You would categorize government-subsidized broadband
 expansion
 as capitalistic competition?


 I should have said - receiving some funds and thus increasing the
 speed of biz expansion.
 I see nothing un-capitalistic per se about receiving funds in order  
 to
 revive the economy.

 The real question however is, will *only* the big boys get something
 thus driving the smaller boys out of biz!
 (maybe that is the case in the original posting and I just did not
 know it).


 *If* the stimulus package would be needed in the first place however,
 is of course a completely different topic.

 But seems like I just put my fingers into a wound. Sorry about that.
 Not intended.


 ---
 there's no place like 127.0.0.1, except maybe ::1 (someday)



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

--
Chuck Bartosch
Clarity Connect, Inc.
200 Pleasant Grove Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
(607) 257-8268

When the stars threw down their spears,
and water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile, His work to see?
Did He who made the Lamb make thee?

 From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects


On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:55 PM, Chuck Bartosch wrote:
 50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his

Sorry, that sounded kind of snotty-didn't mean it that way. I meant  
just that, I'm going by what he explicitly said and not making further  
assumptions or guesses. The I'll remind you was out of place and  
didn't say what I was trying to say sigh.

Chuck


--
Chuck Bartosch
Clarity Connect, Inc.
200 Pleasant Grove Road
Ithaca, NY 14850
(607) 257-8268

When the stars threw down their spears,
and water'd heaven with their tears,
Did He smile, His work to see?
Did He who made the Lamb make thee?

 From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger!






WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] Willigear

Any comments good bad or indifferent?

Looks like I can put together a dual band Mesh radio for about 250.00 plus 
antennas.



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

Chuck,

and you will NOT be able to have a section cut
out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do
cover it.

I agree that its not possible to protest it simply based on the protestor 
covering part of it. Agreed, gerrymandering was incouraged, and I actually 
agree it should be.

But... I disagree that it wont be an option to carve out a piece of the 
applciation. NTIA/RUS reserved the right to do what ever they want to do. If 
the protestor can conveince NTIA/RUS that it is in the best interest to all, 
to simply cut out the conflicting area, its feasible it could occur.

I do not believe protesting a GOOD Strong plan will have any effect or 
value. NObody is going to not fund a good plan because of a wining 
protestor. But I'm making the statemnet based on the fact that many 
applicants may have very poor plans.

The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you*
have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to
justify it at the census block level

I agree that the protestor has to protest at teh block level for the whole 
area, to protest the claim of  underserved for the defined area, and that 
would be hard for a protestor.
But I disagree, that is always required. Because... You are assuming that 
the reason one is protesting  based on qualification of underserved. And you 
are assuming that the protestors proof must be complete. If the applicant 
did a poor job, and their data is incomplete, the protestor's data may only 
have to be as complete as the applicant's data + 1.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:55 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects


The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you*
have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to
justify it at the census block level.

And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to
challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even
50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his
area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the
other households...they just care that you don't.

If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than
his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut
out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do
cover it. They went out of their way to encourage gerrymandering in
the applications, which included the ability to include covered
territory as long as the total number of already covered households
was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us).

Chuck

On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad
 applications.
 The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or
 in
 conflict of interest if we dont tell them.
 Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of
 interest
 without telling them.

 I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous
 area.
 The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to
 look down
 to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and
 aren't
 underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that
 are
 attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas,
 with the
 hope no one will protest it.

 There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT
 creating
 competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over
 any
 other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti-American,and
 anti-fair-competition in my mind.

 To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no
 funds,
 is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business,
 and to
 risk throwing away the much investment made by those original
 entreprenures.

 What I recommend is that people diligently protest, but with fact, and
 suggested resolution. The goal should NOT to prevent the party from
 gaining
 a grant to serve truely underserved/unserved areas, but to instead
 incourage
 NTIA/RUS to force the applicant to revise its applicant to remedy the
 conflict of Interest.  Also note that once an area gets a grant, it
 very
 possible that NTIA/RUS may never give another grant to that same
 area.  When
 this is done at the Census Block level it is no problem, because
 applicants
 can narrow down to each area that they serve and dont serve. But when
 someone lists an ENTIRE County, it risks that future legitimate
 application
 for needy census blocks will be denied because of the area being
 recorded as
 already served by a grant applicant.  Is it right for an Entire
 county to be
 given to a new provider? Remember applicants are required to serve

Re: [WISPA] Willigear

I was in contact with a WISP in Destin, Florida that really liked them
in a condo/hotel environment. He praised them. Hope this helps.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:35 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] Willigear

Any comments good bad or indifferent?

Looks like I can put together a dual band Mesh radio for about 250.00
plus antennas.

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

2009-09-15 Thread Vickie Edwards

 They went out of their way to encourage gerrymandering in
the applications, which included the ability to include covered
territory as long as the total number of already covered households
was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us).

Or that there's a less than 40% subscribership rate - a lot of people seem to 
be forgetting that. That's the only way that a lot of applications will be able 
to remain in consideration for underserved status, given how difficult it is in 
most areas to find anywhere with less than 50% availability.


InLine
vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist
InLine Solutions Through Technology
600 Lakeshore Pkwy
Birmingham AL, 35209
205-278-8106 [p]
205-941-1934[f]
vedwa...@inline.com
www.InLine.com
All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and any 
attached files may contain confidential information and are intended solely for 
the message recipient. If you are not the message recipient you are notified 
that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in reliance on the 
contents of this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot 
be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, 
corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The 
sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the 
contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If 
verification is required please request a hard-copy version.

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:56 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you*
have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to
justify it at the census block level.

And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to
challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even
50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his
area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the
other households...they just care that you don't.

If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than
his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut
out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do
cover it. They went out of their way to encourage gerrymandering in
the applications, which included the ability to include covered
territory as long as the total number of already covered households
was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us).

Chuck

On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad
 applications.
 The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or
 in
 conflict of interest if we dont tell them.
 Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of
 interest
 without telling them.

 I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous
 area.
 The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to
 look down
 to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and
 aren't
 underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that
 are
 attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas,
 with the
 hope no one will protest it.

 There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT
 creating
 competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over
 any
 other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti-American,and
 anti-fair-competition in my mind.

 To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no
 funds,
 is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business,
 and to
 risk throwing away the much investment made by those original
 entreprenures.

 What I recommend is that people diligently protest, but with fact, and
 suggested resolution. The goal should NOT to prevent the party from
 gaining
 a grant to serve truely underserved/unserved areas, but to instead
 incourage
 NTIA/RUS to force the applicant to revise its applicant to remedy the
 conflict of Interest.  Also note that once an area gets a grant, it
 very
 possible that NTIA/RUS may never give another grant to that same
 area.  When
 this is done at the Census Block level it is no problem, because
 applicants
 can narrow down to each area that they serve and dont serve. But when
 someone lists an ENTIRE County, it risks that future legitimate
 application
 for needy census blocks will be denied because of the area being
 recorded as
 already served by a grant applicant.  Is it right for an Entire
 county to be
 given to a new provider? Remember applicants are required to serve ALL
 customer in an area.  That means they will be getting grant money to
 put you
 out of business.

 I also

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects


On Sep 15, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Chuck,

 and you will NOT be able to have a section cut
 out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do
 cover it.

 I agree that its not possible to protest it simply based on the  
 protestor
 covering part of it. Agreed, gerrymandering was incouraged, and I  
 actually
 agree it should be.

 But... I disagree that it wont be an option to carve out a piece of  
 the
 applciation. NTIA/RUS reserved the right to do what ever they want  
 to do. If
 the protestor can conveince NTIA/RUS that it is in the best interest  
 to all,
 to simply cut out the conflicting area, its feasible it could occur.

Okay, but I don't see how you can convince them of this. You're  
limited to documenting your coverage; you're not otherwise allowed to  
comment. That's to prevent people from swaying their judgement  
inappropriately and in a non-public way.

 I do not believe protesting a GOOD Strong plan will have any effect or
 value. NObody is going to not fund a good plan because of a wining
 protestor. But I'm making the statemnet based on the fact that many
 applicants may have very poor plans.

Right, I do understand where you're coming from. But because they are  
legally limited by the OMB as to what they can consider, I don't see  
the mechanism here. All we can do is hope they can see that an  
application is poor.

 The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you*
 have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to
 justify it at the census block level

 I agree that the protestor has to protest at teh block level for the  
 whole
 area, to protest the claim of  underserved for the defined area,  
 and that
 would be hard for a protestor.
 But I disagree, that is always required. Because... You are assuming  
 that
 the reason one is protesting  based on qualification of underserved.  
 And you
 are assuming that the protestors proof must be complete. If the  
 applicant
 did a poor job, and their data is incomplete, the protestor's data  
 may only
 have to be as complete as the applicant's data + 1.

nod I think as long as your data is at least the quality of the  
applicant's, they should consider it, but if you're saying you cover  
less than 50% in the first place, they are going to have to reject you  
out of hand no matter how bad the applicant's data is. They may well  
say this is poor documentation but you're not going to be able to  
influence that determination except by providing better documentation  
that proves they don't qualify.

In other words, you can't win this just but showing the applicant had  
poor documentation, you ALSO have to show they don't qualify.

Chuck



 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 12:55 PM
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects


 The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you*
 have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to
 justify it at the census block level.

 And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to
 challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even
 50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his
 area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the
 other households...they just care that you don't.

 If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than
 his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut
 out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do
 cover it. They went out of their way to encourage gerrymandering in
 the applications, which included the ability to include covered
 territory as long as the total number of already covered households
 was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us).

 Chuck

 On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad
 applications.
 The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or
 in
 conflict of interest if we dont tell them.
 Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of
 interest
 without telling them.

 I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous
 area.
 The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to
 look down
 to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and
 aren't
 underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that
 are
 attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas,
 with the
 hope no one will protest it.

 There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT
 creating
 competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over
 any
 other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

Chuck,

I'm reading from bottom up, and realize in this Email you made some good 
points here that may adequately counter my thought from my last post.

This is all good information, to understand what is and isn't approrpiate 
ways to protest, and when appropriate.

I agree that NTIA/RUS is bound by law, specifically to not allow one 
applicant to inappropriately sway the judgement for another's application 
consideration.
The purpose in these laws is to prevent preferencial treatment, and allow 
for a fair evaluation process.

But NTIA/RUS did in fact give the public a method to make comments. Even the 
MAPs have a comment button, for early stage comments to be able to 
immediately be made.
We cant forget that NTIA grants are subjective, and do not have a clear 
evaluation standard to measure applications like RUS applications do. 
Decission makers will make decissions based on what they perceive, which 
will be based on input they are exposed to, whether they intentially mean to 
consider it or not. And it will be very hard to prove when a decission maker 
used outside influence to sway their judgement. There will also be several 
stages of different decission makers, that might be influenced.

I also think its possible to submit a defense regarding underserved, with 
incomplete information, without the basis being one's own coverage or 
application.

For example, it could be stated...  The application covers an area where 
there are X number of providers, and from our experience have found very few 
people unserved, did the applicant submit data referencing the coverage and 
subscription data of companies A,B,C,D,E? If they did not, they would likely 
have incomplete and inaccurate information. .

What this boils down to is  Does a protestor need to prove 100% 
conclusively its case, or just enough information to create a reasonable 
amount of doubt, if the applicant did not have a strong case themselves? 
Regardless, the applicant was required to prove that their area is 
underserved, if teh applicant did not conclusivel do that, I believe they 
are just as much at risk that the protestor will get consideration.

I believe NTIA/RUS WILL reach out to applicants, to avoid conflicts, even 
though they dont have to.  For example, if a protestor makes a good case, 
and suggests a good resolution, why wouldn't the NTIA/RUS consider it, and 
bring it up to the applicant? If I were the applicant, I'd immediately 
revise the app, and sacrifice a small amount so I could win the large big 
picture amount.  I recognize that NTIA/RUS has been given power to make 
decissions without talking to applicant, and that decission must be based on 
teh information the applicant provided, but NTIA/RUS reserved the right to 
work it out as they deem appropriate.

In my opinion, at the end of the day, if there are multiple applications for 
the same reason, I belive they'll want to approve the application that will 
gain the most public approval.
Its very possible that an application that serves 100% underserved areas may 
be looked at as more preferencial than one that serves both served and 
unserved areas.

 In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly
 disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about
 individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over
 anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage
 area.

I guess that will be a very relevent document, and something I need to read, 
as well as anyone else intending to protest an application.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects


 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't
 think it's a good plan.

 In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly
 disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about
 individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over
 anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage
 area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you
 can find it on line.

 The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed
 to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this.

 Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms
 about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any
 form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's.

 It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out
 what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're
 suggesting as I understood the circular.

 Chuck

 On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

I'm including the 40% in the gerrymandering statement. In another  
response I pointed out that you have to win on every argument the  
applicant makes, not just on the arguments you want to make.

Chuck

On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Vickie Edwards wrote:

  They went out of their way to encourage gerrymandering in
 the applications, which included the ability to include covered
 territory as long as the total number of already covered households
 was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to  
 us).

 Or that there's a less than 40% subscribership rate - a lot of  
 people seem to be forgetting that. That's the only way that a lot of  
 applications will be able to remain in consideration for underserved  
 status, given how difficult it is in most areas to find anywhere  
 with less than 50% availability.


 InLine
 vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist
 InLine Solutions Through Technology
 600 Lakeshore Pkwy
 Birmingham AL, 35209
 205-278-8106 [p]
 205-941-1934[f]
 vedwa...@inline.com
 www.InLine.com
 All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and  
 any attached files may contain confidential information and are  
 intended solely for the message recipient. If you are not the  
 message recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,  
 distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of  
 this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot  
 be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be  
 intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete,  
 or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability  
 for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which  
 arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is  
 required please request a hard-copy version.

 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:56 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

 The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you*
 have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to
 justify it at the census block level.

 And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to
 challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even
 50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his
 area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the
 other households...they just care that you don't.

 If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than
 his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut
 out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do
 cover it. They went out of their way to encourage gerrymandering in
 the applications, which included the ability to include covered
 territory as long as the total number of already covered households
 was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us).

 Chuck

 On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad
 applications.
 The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or
 in
 conflict of interest if we dont tell them.
 Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of
 interest
 without telling them.

 I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous
 area.
 The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to
 look down
 to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and
 aren't
 underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that
 are
 attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas,
 with the
 hope no one will protest it.

 There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT
 creating
 competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over
 any
 other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti- 
 American,and
 anti-fair-competition in my mind.

 To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no
 funds,
 is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business,
 and to
 risk throwing away the much investment made by those original
 entreprenures.

 What I recommend is that people diligently protest, but with fact,  
 and
 suggested resolution. The goal should NOT to prevent the party from
 gaining
 a grant to serve truely underserved/unserved areas, but to instead
 incourage
 NTIA/RUS to force the applicant to revise its applicant to remedy the
 conflict of Interest.  Also note that once an area gets a grant, it
 very
 possible that NTIA/RUS may never give another grant to that same
 area.  When
 this is done at the Census Block level it is no problem, because
 applicants
 can narrow down to each area that they serve and dont serve. But when
 someone lists an ENTIRE County, it risks that future legitimate
 application

Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

2009-09-15 Thread Mike Hammett

I've never been a fan of selling out, no matter the terms  ever for any 
amount of money.  That's probably because I'm young and hope to own an 
evolution of my company 50 years from now.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:34 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; 
isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com; isp-inves...@isp-investor.com; 
wisp-busin...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

 Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

 What many think is the holy grail of the Broadband Wireless Internet
 Business is reaching the 100,000 subscriber point then selling out.
 There are a few companies taking the buy-out approach to reaching this
 goal.  They are offering between $100 to $1200 per subscriber to the
 owners that have built these businesses up through their hard work.
 They seem to be concentrating on the companies with between 500 and
 2000 subscribers.

 Most of the time, the management of the purchased companies is not
 held on for long after the acquisition, and the quality of the service
 and support for the end user is greatly degraded (a great opportunity
 for us).

 We are offering a different path:

 What we propose is to band a large group of companies under our
 corporate umbrella.  This will be done with very specific limitations
 (for both sides) to ensure all parties are treated equitably.  This is
 a no-risk, all-gain proposition!

 1. The companies being added will be subsidiaries of Argon
 Technologies Inc.  They will operate substantially autonomously still
 under their respective company structures and management.
 2. Subsidiaries will be financially autonomous from the corporate
 company.  All profits or losses will remain the responsibility of that
 owner-operator.
 3. Subsidiaries will benefit from the substantial buying power our
 larger entity can offer.  We will offer significant discounts for CPE,
 Bandwidth (various providers), VOIP services, PBX services, 24x7
 Support, Towers, and Tower Access.
 4. Subsidiaries will be guaranteed a minimum premium for the customers
 they bring to the Corporation.  Should we not be able to reach this
 minimum for any reason within the contractual time period, they may
 opt out of the organization at that time.
 5. Subsidiaries will be encouraged to sell services on each others
 networks.  This will greatly increase the efficiency of our marketing
 dollars.  If you cannot reach a potential customer with your network,
 and you can on your neighbors, you both profit!  How many times have
 your crews been on a new customers roof and only seen the competitors
 access points?  Problem solved!

 Once our we reach our target subscriber base we will have to decide
 between two different options:

 1. Sell out to a larger corporation.
 2. Initial Public Offering in the Stock Market.

 In either of these two situations, your return on your hard work will
 be multiplied greatly verses a simple sell out to a larger ISP.

 Sound intriguing?  Let’s talk.


 -- 
 Marco C. Coelho
 Argon Technologies Inc.
 POB 875
 Greenville, TX 75403-0875
 903-455-5036


 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

2009-09-15 Thread Mike Hammett

That link doesn't work for me.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Matt Larsen - Lists li...@manageisp.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 7:41 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org; motorola Canopy User Group 
motor...@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

 Here is a link to maps of the projects:

 http://bit.ly/3p2be3

 I count four cell phone companies in my areas looking for stimulus money
 to expand their existing phone networks.   What a crock!

 Also, a big chunk of the country is covered by the Satellite providers
 wanting money to upgrade their satellite network.   Since when does that
 actually improve broadband availability?   I guess it is sort of like
 broadband-lite.

 Ack!

 Matt Larsen
 vistabeam.com




 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

2009-09-15 Thread Ryan Spott

When I search these websites for my county (Snohomish County, WA), I
come up with SEVERAL listings for CTURN Corporation out of Oregon
http://broadbandsearch.sc.egov.usda.gov/SearchResult_Company.aspx?CompanyId=1f78822b-3a4c-43a7-af4a-461b44b65a51.
They appear to have over 130 applications showing approved back in
2006.

Several of these apps are in areas that I service and have intimate
knowledge of. I have not seen ANYTHING toward broadband or this
company. So what gives? Who do I call? CTURN has since been bought by
http://www.icoacorp.com/.

Is this a company that was funded by RUS and then RUS got nothing out
of it or am I mistaken?

ryan

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 11:20 AM, Chuck Bartosch
ch...@clarityconnect.com wrote:
I'm including the 40% in the gerrymandering statement. In another
response I pointed out that you have to win on every argument the
applicant makes, not just on the arguments you want to make.

Chuck

On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:16 PM, Vickie Edwards wrote:

They went out of their way to encourage gerrymandering in
the applications, which included the ability to include covered
territory as long as the total number of already covered households
was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to
us).

Or that there's a less than 40% subscribership rate - a lot of
people seem to be forgetting that. That's the only way that a lot of
applications will be able to remain in consideration for underserved
status, given how difficult it is in most areas to find anywhere
with less than 50% availability.

InLine
vickie edwards, MPA | Grant Specialist
InLine Solutions Through Technology
600 Lakeshore Pkwy
Birmingham AL, 35209
205-278-8106 [p]
205-941-1934[f]
vedwa...@inline.com
www.InLine.com
All Quotes from InLine are only valid for 30 days. This message and
any attached files may contain confidential information and are
intended solely for the message recipient. If you are not the
message recipient you are notified that disclosing, copying,
distributing or taking any action in reliance on the contents of
this information is strictly prohibited. E-mail transmission cannot
be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be
intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete,
or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability
for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which
arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is
required please request a hard-copy version.

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 11:56 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects

The problem is, it's a fair amount of effort to challenge since *you*
have to challenge it at the census block level, just as they had to
justify it at the census block level.

And if the area is as the poster describes, it's impossible to
challenge. He might have a very good reason why he can't reach even
50% of the residents (that's what he said, I'll remind you) in his
area. But, it is irrelevant. They don't care *why* you can't reach the
other households...they just care that you don't.

If this is a big application then it's going to cover far more than
his territory anyway, and you will NOT be able to have a section cut
out of an otherwise qualifying target census set just because you do
cover it. They went out of their way to encourage gerrymandering in
the applications, which included the ability to include covered
territory as long as the total number of already covered households
was under 50% (which it is in this case as it's been explained to us).

Chuck

On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:16 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

Yes, It definateately IS appropriate to attempt to BLOCK bad
applications.
The NTIA/RUS has no way to know if an applcation is innapproriate or
in
conflict of interest if we dont tell them.
Quite honestly, the applicant may not know it is in conflict of
interest
without telling them.

I specifically hate applacation that just selected 1 HUGE contiguous
area.
The reason is, they did't take the time that they should ahve to
look down
to the census block level to determine what blocks really are and
aren't
underserved areas. If anything it is the LARGE AREA applicants that
are
attempting to scam the system, to get grant money for served areas,
with the
hope no one will protest it.

There is nothing wrong with competition. But this grant is NOT
creating
competition. It is giving the applicant a SUPER HUGE advantage over
any
other pre-existing provider in the area, and that is anti-
American,and
anti-fair-competition in my mind.

To give a new provider a free network, and the existing provider no
funds,
is a disaster plan to put pre-existing businesses out of business,
and to
risk throwing away the much investment made by those original

Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects


On Sep 15, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote:

 Chuck,

 I'm reading from bottom up, and realize in this Email you made some  
 good
 points here that may adequately counter my thought from my last post.

 This is all good information, to understand what is and isn't  
 approrpiate
 ways to protest, and when appropriate.

 I agree that NTIA/RUS is bound by law, specifically to not allow one
 applicant to inappropriately sway the judgement for another's  
 application
 consideration.
 The purpose in these laws is to prevent preferencial treatment, and  
 allow
 for a fair evaluation process.

 But NTIA/RUS did in fact give the public a method to make comments.  
 Even the
 MAPs have a comment button, for early stage comments to be able to
 immediately be made.

Right, but the OMB circular I'm referring to takes effect the moment  
an application is accepted for submission. The rules are completely  
different once that happened.

 We cant forget that NTIA grants are subjective, and do not have a  
 clear
 evaluation standard to measure applications like RUS applications do.
 Decission makers will make decissions based on what they perceive,  
 which
 will be based on input they are exposed to, whether they intentially  
 mean to
 consider it or not. And it will be very hard to prove when a  
 decission maker
 used outside influence to sway their judgement. There will also be  
 several
 stages of different decission makers, that might be influenced.

Taking your statement here more broadly than I know you mean it to be,  
keep in mind that there are legal penalties for trying to influence an  
evaluator, not just legal restrictions on NTIA and RUS-and ignorance  
of the law doesn't protect you. I know you're not meaning this in that  
sense, but you don't want to cross the line either.

 I also think its possible to submit a defense regarding underserved,  
 with
 incomplete information, without the basis being one's own coverage or
 application.

 For example, it could be stated...  The application covers an area  
 where
 there are X number of providers, and from our experience have found  
 very few
 people unserved, did the applicant submit data referencing the  
 coverage and
 subscription data of companies A,B,C,D,E? If they did not, they  
 would likely
 have incomplete and inaccurate information. .

 What this boils down to is  Does a protestor need to prove 100%
 conclusively its case, or just enough information to create a  
 reasonable
 amount of doubt, if the applicant did not have a strong case  
 themselves?
 Regardless, the applicant was required to prove that their area is
 underserved, if teh applicant did not conclusivel do that, I believe  
 they
 are just as much at risk that the protestor will get consideration.

 I believe NTIA/RUS WILL reach out to applicants, to avoid conflicts,  
 even
 though they dont have to.  For example, if a protestor makes a good  
 case,
 and suggests a good resolution, why wouldn't the NTIA/RUS consider  
 it, and
 bring it up to the applicant?

Basic logic supports that approach, but I'm not sure their procedures  
allow for it. But I agree, if I were designing the system, that's how  
I'd approach it, even though it does raise some collusion issues  
perhaps.

 If I were the applicant, I'd immediately
 revise the app, and sacrifice a small amount so I could win the  
 large big
 picture amount.

Me too.

  I recognize that NTIA/RUS has been given power to make
 decissions without talking to applicant, and that decission must be  
 based on
 teh information the applicant provided, but NTIA/RUS reserved the  
 right to
 work it out as they deem appropriate.

 In my opinion, at the end of the day, if there are multiple  
 applications for
 the same reason, I belive they'll want to approve the application  
 that will
 gain the most public approval.
 Its very possible that an application that serves 100% underserved  
 areas may
 be looked at as more preferencial than one that serves both served and
 unserved areas.

Except that a subsidiary goal going into the development of the NOFA  
was to increase competition, not just provide service to unserved  
residents. Hence the concept of underserved-which ended up with a  
fairly odd definition in the NOTA, when you think about it.

Chuck


 In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that  
 explicitly
 disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over  
 about
 individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over
 anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage
 area.

 I guess that will be a very relevent document, and something I need  
 to read,
 as well as anyone else intending to protest an application.

 Tom DeReggi
 RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
 IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


 - Original Message -
 From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 1:06

Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

They are offering between $100 to $1200 per subscriber to the
owners that have built these businesses up through their hard work.
They seem to be concentrating on the companies with between 500 and
2000 subscribers.

Seems about even if you only look at today's dollar value - what about the
next 6 months the company is open?  If the company is about to go under they
wouldn't pay $100/sub...

I believe in tit for tat.  If someone wanted to buy my company, what I have
worked for, I expect to be compensated for it and more plus what could be
that I would no longer have.  There is only one who can judge what that
effort is worth and I won't do it without a whole lot of zeros.

I can't say I have ever seen a competitor's AP.  Or any competitor's service
outside of satellite for my customer base.  If they have something already,
like the cable company, they often only call us looking for a replacement.
Our problem is getting the people with no service the news about us.  In the
past it has been kind of like a wildfire (tell one person and they tell
their neighbors who tell their neighbors, etc).

I am one that disagrees with the government and big entities (corporations,
society, etc) most of the time.  I can not call myself a rebel.  In my life
time I have seen the US Government take such a great country into a
direction most will agree is not good.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle


On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.netwrote:

 I've never been a fan of selling out, no matter the terms  ever for any
 amount of money.  That's probably because I'm young and hope to own an
 evolution of my company 50 years from now.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:34 AM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org;
 isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com; isp-inves...@isp-investor.com;
 wisp-busin...@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

  Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering
 
  What many think is the holy grail of the Broadband Wireless Internet
  Business is reaching the 100,000 subscriber point then selling out.
  There are a few companies taking the buy-out approach to reaching this
  goal.  They are offering between $100 to $1200 per subscriber to the
  owners that have built these businesses up through their hard work.
  They seem to be concentrating on the companies with between 500 and
  2000 subscribers.
 
  Most of the time, the management of the purchased companies is not
  held on for long after the acquisition, and the quality of the service
  and support for the end user is greatly degraded (a great opportunity
  for us).
 
  We are offering a different path:
 
  What we propose is to band a large group of companies under our
  corporate umbrella.  This will be done with very specific limitations
  (for both sides) to ensure all parties are treated equitably.  This is
  a no-risk, all-gain proposition!
 
  1. The companies being added will be subsidiaries of Argon
  Technologies Inc.  They will operate substantially autonomously still
  under their respective company structures and management.
  2. Subsidiaries will be financially autonomous from the corporate
  company.  All profits or losses will remain the responsibility of that
  owner-operator.
  3. Subsidiaries will benefit from the substantial buying power our
  larger entity can offer.  We will offer significant discounts for CPE,
  Bandwidth (various providers), VOIP services, PBX services, 24x7
  Support, Towers, and Tower Access.
  4. Subsidiaries will be guaranteed a minimum premium for the customers
  they bring to the Corporation.  Should we not be able to reach this
  minimum for any reason within the contractual time period, they may
  opt out of the organization at that time.
  5. Subsidiaries will be encouraged to sell services on each others
  networks.  This will greatly increase the efficiency of our marketing
  dollars.  If you cannot reach a potential customer with your network,
  and you can on your neighbors, you both profit!  How many times have
  your crews been on a new customers roof and only seen the competitors
  access points?  Problem solved!
 
  Once our we reach our target subscriber base we will have to decide
  between two different options:
 
  1. Sell out to a larger corporation.
  2. Initial Public Offering in the Stock Market.
 
  In either of these two situations, your return on your hard work will
  be multiplied greatly verses a simple sell out to a larger ISP.
 
  Sound intriguing?  Let’s talk.
 
 
  --
  Marco C. Coelho
  Argon Technologies Inc.
  POB 875
  Greenville, TX

Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

I'm also not in favor of any deal, that forces a participant into a destiny 
they don't untimately ahve control of, or where they lose control of how 
they evaluate their local value when they reach the exit stage. For example, 
one subsidiary may easilly justify a return with a 1x sale, but another may 
easilly be able to justify a 3x sale. When all areas are lunped in as one, 
the sale price of teh one has to get averaged out, and those that have more 
value will get underpaid for their value. And when that doesn;t occur, there 
is always in-fighting because everyone thinks there own network is more 
value than the next guy's.

As well, I'm never in favor of a plan that is not very clear on what the 
poteital subsidiary gains for joining. Volume discounts rarely translates to 
value anywhere near the value of lossing independant control of one's 
company. And we all know, a subsidiary is controlless, unless the deal 
allows the subsidiary majority control of its portion, and able to opt out 
at anytime proportional to a pre-defined arangement.
.
For a deal to be worthy, they master Company/Buyer must commit what they are 
going to give. For example, most historical deals that ahve failed are made 
simlar to...
If you make these revenue goals or subscriber counts in X time, we'll 
invest this amoutn of money or pay you this amount. This still firces the 
aquired entity to assume all teh risk.

For the deal to be good it should be  We commit to investing this 
amount of cash, and that dollar amount is given in trade for X number of 
shares, and that dollar amount is equivellent to the amount of cash small 
WISP already invested or greater, and then we all split the upside at X 
rate, and small WISP maintains all control until such time that the master 
corp makes a contribution greater than the small WISP, and WISP may opt to 
accept or deny further investment from Master Corp.

I can do volume buying in coops without compromising my company ownership.
I can opt into a group aquisition anytime I an ready to sell my company.

But I just hate the deals that are based on Give me your compnay, and Do 
this for me, and in return we'll give this back. It makes no sense. It need 
to be... Give me what I need that I dont have, and risk it, and in return 
I'll give you this back.

From what I've found Investors always expect to get back much more than can 
reasonably be acheived. So the small WISP never meets the goals. And 
thesmall WISP never gets their return.

When both parties the buyer and seller, both assume adequate risk and 
adeqaute contribution, and adequate percent of upside, there becomes a very 
good basis for a deal.
But 90% of all deals fail that basic criteria, and usually end up being the 
reason the effort fails.

I usually find the buyer's goals are so much grander than the return the 
small WISP was willing to operate his business for.

Deals also tend to work when it merges companies of equivellent size and 
value, but its near impossible to protect a joining entity, if they are not 
of equal scale. Their rights just get lost in the wash.

The biggest flaw in deals is there is not a compelling enough reason to make 
one large company, other than to plan for an exit strategy sale. And most 
WISPs benefit more by staying in the business and living off it for a long 
number of years.  The money is easy money once the company has reached the 
size of profitabilty, why does someone want to sell cheap and start over?
What agregator would pay top dollar, when their goal is to resale and mark 
it up?

The bottom line is, until finance companies leigimately are willing to take 
risk and invest in the companies themselves, at the stage before the company 
has reached scale and needs the cash, they really offer no value.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering


I've never been a fan of selling out, no matter the terms  ever for any
amount of money.  That's probably because I'm young and hope to own an
evolution of my company 50 years from now.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 10:34 AM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org;
isp-wirel...@isp-wireless.com; isp-inves...@isp-investor.com;
wisp-busin...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

 Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

 What many think is the holy grail of the Broadband Wireless Internet
 Business is reaching the 100,000 subscriber point then selling out.
 There are a few companies taking the buy-out approach to reaching this
 goal.  They are offering

Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

Please see within your mail:

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote:
 I'm also not in favor of any deal, that forces a participant into a destiny
 they don't untimately ahve control of, or where they lose control of how
 they evaluate their local value when they reach the exit stage. For example,
 one subsidiary may easilly justify a return with a 1x sale, but another may
 easilly be able to justify a 3x sale. When all areas are lunped in as one,
 the sale price of teh one has to get averaged out, and those that have more
 value will get underpaid for their value. And when that doesn;t occur, there
 is always in-fighting because everyone thinks there own network is more
 value than the next guy's.

The way each ISP is being evaluated is based on a formula that take
subscriber numbers, income, and gross costs into account.  This
flattens out the playing field between all players whether they bring
in 500 customers or 10K.

No control is lost other than agreeing to be in the group and agreeing
that if the agreed to price is met they are willing to transition to
the next organization structure.

Each ISP retains a portion of the new greater organization based
loosely on the formula above divided by the overall number of subs the
new entity has at critical mass.  This makes for a proportionate
ownership of the public company if that is the route taken.  Note to
mention some real money.

As we know, in whatever final structure the company takes form as,
each area will require basically the same individuals to manage, grow,
and support that area.  So continued employment should be a non-issue.
 If you still want to work... That's another question.  I would.


 As well, I'm never in favor of a plan that is not very clear on what the
 poteital subsidiary gains for joining. Volume discounts rarely translates to
 value anywhere near the value of lossing independant control of one's
 company. And we all know, a subsidiary is controlless, unless the deal
 allows the subsidiary majority control of its portion, and able to opt out
 at anytime proportional to a pre-defined arangement.

Volume discounts are just a free benefit.  In tier 3 areas, we pay
between $50 to $12 / meg for bandwidth,  6-8 for Tier 1, depending on
the amount purchased.  We also have been successful at getting $0
fiber build outs to our nocs.

 .
 For a deal to be worthy, they master Company/Buyer must commit what they are
 going to give. For example, most historical deals that ahve failed are made
 simlar to...
 If you make these revenue goals or subscriber counts in X time, we'll
 invest this amoutn of money or pay you this amount. This still firces the
 aquired entity to assume all teh risk.

As I've stated.  Each subsidiary remains substantially independent.
What we are providing is a path to real financial reward for your
efforts.


 For the deal to be good it should be  We commit to investing this
 amount of cash, and that dollar amount is given in trade for X number of
 shares, and that dollar amount is equivellent to the amount of cash small
 WISP already invested or greater, and then we all split the upside at X
 rate, and small WISP maintains all control until such time that the master
 corp makes a contribution greater than the small WISP, and WISP may opt to
 accept or deny further investment from Master Corp.

 I can do volume buying in coops without compromising my company ownership.
 I can opt into a group aquisition anytime I an ready to sell my company.

 But I just hate the deals that are based on Give me your compnay, and Do
 this for me, and in return we'll give this back. It makes no sense. It need
 to be... Give me what I need that I dont have, and risk it, and in return
 I'll give you this back.

We don't want your company It's yours and what you built up.  We
want to build a common path the more wealth for our efforts.


 From what I've found Investors always expect to get back much more than can
 reasonably be acheived. So the small WISP never meets the goals. And
 thesmall WISP never gets their return.


This works to everybody's benefit.

 When both parties the buyer and seller, both assume adequate risk and
 adeqaute contribution, and adequate percent of upside, there becomes a very
 good basis for a deal.
 But 90% of all deals fail that basic criteria, and usually end up being the
 reason the effort fails.

 I usually find the buyer's goals are so much grander than the return the
 small WISP was willing to operate his business for.

 Deals also tend to work when it merges companies of equivellent size and
 value, but its near impossible to protect a joining entity, if they are not
 of equal scale. Their rights just get lost in the wash.

That's what contracts are for.  If you don't agree with the plan and
the terms, no harm no foul.


 The biggest flaw in deals is there is not a compelling enough reason to make
 one large company, other than to plan for an exit strategy

Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

2009-09-15 Thread Mike Hammett

I also don't understand why people aggregate networks that aren't 
contiguous.  You lose a lot of the benefits vs. one you build from 
contiguous networks.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:20 PM
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

 Please see within your mail:

 On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net 
 wrote:
 I'm also not in favor of any deal, that forces a participant into a 
 destiny
 they don't untimately ahve control of, or where they lose control of how
 they evaluate their local value when they reach the exit stage. For 
 example,
 one subsidiary may easilly justify a return with a 1x sale, but another 
 may
 easilly be able to justify a 3x sale. When all areas are lunped in as 
 one,
 the sale price of teh one has to get averaged out, and those that have 
 more
 value will get underpaid for their value. And when that doesn;t occur, 
 there
 is always in-fighting because everyone thinks there own network is more
 value than the next guy's.

 The way each ISP is being evaluated is based on a formula that take
 subscriber numbers, income, and gross costs into account.  This
 flattens out the playing field between all players whether they bring
 in 500 customers or 10K.

 No control is lost other than agreeing to be in the group and agreeing
 that if the agreed to price is met they are willing to transition to
 the next organization structure.

 Each ISP retains a portion of the new greater organization based
 loosely on the formula above divided by the overall number of subs the
 new entity has at critical mass.  This makes for a proportionate
 ownership of the public company if that is the route taken.  Note to
 mention some real money.

 As we know, in whatever final structure the company takes form as,
 each area will require basically the same individuals to manage, grow,
 and support that area.  So continued employment should be a non-issue.
 If you still want to work... That's another question.  I would.


 As well, I'm never in favor of a plan that is not very clear on what the
 poteital subsidiary gains for joining. Volume discounts rarely translates 
 to
 value anywhere near the value of lossing independant control of one's
 company. And we all know, a subsidiary is controlless, unless the deal
 allows the subsidiary majority control of its portion, and able to opt 
 out
 at anytime proportional to a pre-defined arangement.

 Volume discounts are just a free benefit.  In tier 3 areas, we pay
 between $50 to $12 / meg for bandwidth,  6-8 for Tier 1, depending on
 the amount purchased.  We also have been successful at getting $0
 fiber build outs to our nocs.

 .
 For a deal to be worthy, they master Company/Buyer must commit what they 
 are
 going to give. For example, most historical deals that ahve failed are 
 made
 simlar to...
 If you make these revenue goals or subscriber counts in X time, we'll
 invest this amoutn of money or pay you this amount. This still firces 
 the
 aquired entity to assume all teh risk.

 As I've stated.  Each subsidiary remains substantially independent.
 What we are providing is a path to real financial reward for your
 efforts.


 For the deal to be good it should be  We commit to investing this
 amount of cash, and that dollar amount is given in trade for X number of
 shares, and that dollar amount is equivellent to the amount of cash small
 WISP already invested or greater, and then we all split the upside at X
 rate, and small WISP maintains all control until such time that the 
 master
 corp makes a contribution greater than the small WISP, and WISP may opt 
 to
 accept or deny further investment from Master Corp.

 I can do volume buying in coops without compromising my company 
 ownership.
 I can opt into a group aquisition anytime I an ready to sell my company.

 But I just hate the deals that are based on Give me your compnay, and 
 Do
 this for me, and in return we'll give this back. It makes no sense. It 
 need
 to be... Give me what I need that I dont have, and risk it, and in return
 I'll give you this back.

 We don't want your company It's yours and what you built up.  We
 want to build a common path the more wealth for our efforts.


 From what I've found Investors always expect to get back much more than 
 can
 reasonably be acheived. So the small WISP never meets the goals. And
 thesmall WISP never gets their return.


 This works to everybody's benefit.

 When both parties the buyer and seller, both assume adequate risk and
 adeqaute contribution, and adequate percent of upside, there becomes a 
 very
 good basis for a deal.
 But 90% of all deals fail that basic criteria, and usually end up being 
 the
 reason the effort fails.

 I usually find the buyer's

Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

If you bundle enough networks together you get a very good coverage
map.  The more you have, the closer they get to each other thereby
allowing you to add fiber here, licensed backhaul to there.

mc



On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net wrote:
 I also don't understand why people aggregate networks that aren't
 contiguous.  You lose a lot of the benefits vs. one you build from
 contiguous networks.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

 Please see within your mail:

 On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net
 wrote:
 I'm also not in favor of any deal, that forces a participant into a
 destiny
 they don't untimately ahve control of, or where they lose control of how
 they evaluate their local value when they reach the exit stage. For
 example,
 one subsidiary may easilly justify a return with a 1x sale, but another
 may
 easilly be able to justify a 3x sale. When all areas are lunped in as
 one,
 the sale price of teh one has to get averaged out, and those that have
 more
 value will get underpaid for their value. And when that doesn;t occur,
 there
 is always in-fighting because everyone thinks there own network is more
 value than the next guy's.

 The way each ISP is being evaluated is based on a formula that take
 subscriber numbers, income, and gross costs into account.  This
 flattens out the playing field between all players whether they bring
 in 500 customers or 10K.

 No control is lost other than agreeing to be in the group and agreeing
 that if the agreed to price is met they are willing to transition to
 the next organization structure.

 Each ISP retains a portion of the new greater organization based
 loosely on the formula above divided by the overall number of subs the
 new entity has at critical mass.  This makes for a proportionate
 ownership of the public company if that is the route taken.  Note to
 mention some real money.

 As we know, in whatever final structure the company takes form as,
 each area will require basically the same individuals to manage, grow,
 and support that area.  So continued employment should be a non-issue.
 If you still want to work... That's another question.  I would.


 As well, I'm never in favor of a plan that is not very clear on what the
 poteital subsidiary gains for joining. Volume discounts rarely translates
 to
 value anywhere near the value of lossing independant control of one's
 company. And we all know, a subsidiary is controlless, unless the deal
 allows the subsidiary majority control of its portion, and able to opt
 out
 at anytime proportional to a pre-defined arangement.

 Volume discounts are just a free benefit.  In tier 3 areas, we pay
 between $50 to $12 / meg for bandwidth,  6-8 for Tier 1, depending on
 the amount purchased.  We also have been successful at getting $0
 fiber build outs to our nocs.

 .
 For a deal to be worthy, they master Company/Buyer must commit what they
 are
 going to give. For example, most historical deals that ahve failed are
 made
 simlar to...
 If you make these revenue goals or subscriber counts in X time, we'll
 invest this amoutn of money or pay you this amount. This still firces
 the
 aquired entity to assume all teh risk.

 As I've stated.  Each subsidiary remains substantially independent.
 What we are providing is a path to real financial reward for your
 efforts.


 For the deal to be good it should be  We commit to investing this
 amount of cash, and that dollar amount is given in trade for X number of
 shares, and that dollar amount is equivellent to the amount of cash small
 WISP already invested or greater, and then we all split the upside at X
 rate, and small WISP maintains all control until such time that the
 master
 corp makes a contribution greater than the small WISP, and WISP may opt
 to
 accept or deny further investment from Master Corp.

 I can do volume buying in coops without compromising my company
 ownership.
 I can opt into a group aquisition anytime I an ready to sell my company.

 But I just hate the deals that are based on Give me your compnay, and
 Do
 this for me, and in return we'll give this back. It makes no sense. It
 need
 to be... Give me what I need that I dont have, and risk it, and in return
 I'll give you this back.

 We don't want your company It's yours and what you built up.  We
 want to build a common path the more wealth for our efforts.


 From what I've found Investors always expect to get back much more than
 can
 reasonably be acheived. So the small WISP never meets the goals. And
 thesmall WISP never gets their return.


 This works to everybody's benefit.

 When both parties the buyer and

Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

Although steps in the right direction, a couple points

The way each ISP is being evaluated is based on a formula that take
subscriber numbers, income, and gross costs into account.  This
flattens out the playing field between all players whether they bring
in 500 customers or 10K.

I guess it boils down to the formula.
The problem is that potential isn't easilly put into that formula.
If all entities dont have the same cash/finance options as others, potential 
for each participant may not be reached at the same time.
The formulas only work if each has reached equal potential.
People with less finance generally just have longer ROI strategies, but 
potential may be just as high.
This problem could make it difficult for potential participants to be 
willing to commit to accepting the formulas.

The only way I see it working is if 1) all particpants are at simplar 
stages, or 2) teh agreegator has the financial resources and willing to use 
them to help all particpants reach their potential by target deadline. 
Otherwise, prospective participants can easilyl predict they will get 
screwed.

As we know, in whatever final structure the company takes form as,
each area will require basically the same individuals to manage, grow,
and support that area.  So continued employment should be a non-issue.
 If you still want to work... That's another question.  I would.

We all know that is never able to be guaranteed.
They keep working hard or they get booted. The upgame for WISPs is that they 
eventually will make money but not have to work hard to keep receiving the 
reoccuring revenue.
Continiueing to work at market rate street price salary isn't really a 
benefit, in exchange for just stock.

Most buyers will never pay in cash what a WISP is worth to the WISP itself. 
The WISP is willing to take RISKs the buyer isn't.

Volume discounts are just a free benefit.  In tier 3 areas, we pay
between $50 to $12 / meg for bandwidth,  6-8 for Tier 1, depending on
the amount purchased.  We also have been successful at getting $0
fiber build outs to our nocs.

This kind of proves my point... Benefits are never as good as the offerer 
thinks they are.
I'm a tiny little company and have gained better pricing. I've paid as 
little as $2 /mb in URban, and $10-$15 in rural.

As I've stated.  Each subsidiary remains substantially independent.
What we are providing is a path to real financial reward for your
efforts.

There is no risk in pledging support to join should a deal come to play at 
an agreeable pre-defined rate, and all agree to what that would be.
The hard part is agreeing on what is reward for efforts and actually 
finding the buyer willing to pay that number.

The reality is... WISPs are in a business not typically attractive to 
investors. There are no patents or intellectual property, there is no 
certainty on competition, who can compete, or unique abilties above the next 
guy. Success is all about experience and people willing to work in it.  Its 
a market with uncertainty. Its a high risk venture for a buyer to pay cash.
The flaw I see with these type deals is they are shooting for the deal that 
will never happen. Someone has a much better chance applying for a BTOP/RUS 
grant, with intent to keep their company for 15 years.

We don't want your company It's yours and what you built up.  We
want to build a common path the more wealth for our efforts.

Again, a flawed path. If you dont want the participants' companies, then 
they are not successful enough yet to attract buyers. Without investment, 
how will they grow to be attractive to buyers?
Profitabilty is not based on increasing national numbers, its about 
increasing volume locally,to make each local subsidee sustainable for a 
likely long future. What you really mean is that you do not have the 
resources to profitable run the local companies without the local company's 
sweat equity and local staff. What you mean is that you want a peice of 
their profit, when they sell, in trade for what you give them to help them 
be more successful. What will you give them to guarantee they will be more 
successful, so they should share their potential with you?

Its possible to organize a group, and simply track subscribers and revenue, 
and then when the revenues reach a target goal large enough to attract 
investors, start negotiating deals.
But the small entities will never get top ROI with someone else negotiating 
the terms of their deal. It just doesn;t work that way, we all know it.

That's what contracts are for.  If you don't agree with the plan and
 the terms, no harm no foul.

Its really tough to negotiate a contract that adequately protects the party 
getting merged in. And even harder to inforce it. And even harder to do it 
better than a buyer or agregator that has attorneys who have specialized in 
it for many years, and has money to spend on it.

Why must a deal be of a large enough size to be attractive to buyers? 
BECAUSE THE LEGAL FEES AND

Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

Yes, but the largest cost benefit is reducing duplicate processes and 
resources.
Integrating one tech support, one billing, one transit, one colo, etc, etc. 
These require committed combining of companies, where there is no return 
after words.
The companies that combine like that will see much better ratios higher 
valuing their companies. They will get much better evaluation than a bunch 
of independant comapnies duplicating costs, and just aggregating.

Thats why anyone looking to sell would really want to take advantage of full 
mergers to make their comapnies have a higher value before sale time. If the 
buyer is responsible for the savings at merge time, the buyer will get 
credit for it financially.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL  Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


- Original Message - 
From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com
To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:07 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering


If you bundle enough networks together you get a very good coverage
map.  The more you have, the closer they get to each other thereby
allowing you to add fiber here, licensed backhaul to there.

mc



On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Mike Hammett wispawirel...@ics-il.net 
wrote:
 I also don't understand why people aggregate networks that aren't
 contiguous. You lose a lot of the benefits vs. one you build from
 contiguous networks.


 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions
 http://www.ics-il.com



 --
 From: Marco Coelho coelh...@gmail.com
 Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:20 PM
 To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] Aggregate Growth strategy for a public offering

 Please see within your mail:

 On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net
 wrote:
 I'm also not in favor of any deal, that forces a participant into a
 destiny
 they don't untimately ahve control of, or where they lose control of how
 they evaluate their local value when they reach the exit stage. For
 example,
 one subsidiary may easilly justify a return with a 1x sale, but another
 may
 easilly be able to justify a 3x sale. When all areas are lunped in as
 one,
 the sale price of teh one has to get averaged out, and those that have
 more
 value will get underpaid for their value. And when that doesn;t occur,
 there
 is always in-fighting because everyone thinks there own network is more
 value than the next guy's.

 The way each ISP is being evaluated is based on a formula that take
 subscriber numbers, income, and gross costs into account. This
 flattens out the playing field between all players whether they bring
 in 500 customers or 10K.

 No control is lost other than agreeing to be in the group and agreeing
 that if the agreed to price is met they are willing to transition to
 the next organization structure.

 Each ISP retains a portion of the new greater organization based
 loosely on the formula above divided by the overall number of subs the
 new entity has at critical mass. This makes for a proportionate
 ownership of the public company if that is the route taken. Note to
 mention some real money.

 As we know, in whatever final structure the company takes form as,
 each area will require basically the same individuals to manage, grow,
 and support that area. So continued employment should be a non-issue.
 If you still want to work... That's another question. I would.


 As well, I'm never in favor of a plan that is not very clear on what the
 poteital subsidiary gains for joining. Volume discounts rarely 
 translates
 to
 value anywhere near the value of lossing independant control of one's
 company. And we all know, a subsidiary is controlless, unless the deal
 allows the subsidiary majority control of its portion, and able to opt
 out
 at anytime proportional to a pre-defined arangement.

 Volume discounts are just a free benefit. In tier 3 areas, we pay
 between $50 to $12 / meg for bandwidth, 6-8 for Tier 1, depending on
 the amount purchased. We also have been successful at getting $0
 fiber build outs to our nocs.

 .
 For a deal to be worthy, they master Company/Buyer must commit what they
 are
 going to give. For example, most historical deals that ahve failed are
 made
 simlar to...
 If you make these revenue goals or subscriber counts in X time, we'll
 invest this amoutn of money or pay you this amount. This still firces
 the
 aquired entity to assume all teh risk.

 As I've stated. Each subsidiary remains substantially independent.
 What we are providing is a path to real financial reward for your
 efforts.


 For the deal to be good it should be  We commit to investing this
 amount of cash, and that dollar amount is given in trade for X number of
 shares, and that dollar amount is equivellent to the amount of cash 
 small
 WISP already invested or greater, and then we all split the upside at X
 rate,

[WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.

2009-09-15 Thread Michael Baird

What grid type/vendors are most using here. Our installers are having 
some issues with our Grid deployments. We've tried a few types of 
Pac-Wireless's, some of them have had wildly fluctuating signal levels 
they bounce 20db. Our Andrew grids seem to work fine, but we are looking 
for a less costly alternative, any ideas? We are using Ubiquity 
Bullet2-HP's as the client radios on these things. I'm just wondering 
what causes this, we can take a different radio/antenna and get a rock 
solid connection on the same pole, so we've discounted some kind of 
interference issue.

Regards
Michael Baird



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

2009-09-15 Thread os10rules

Excuse my ignorance but since the card is the only thing that  
transmits why does the board and especially why does the enclosure  
need to be certified? If one puts a two way radio in a car the radio  
needs to be certified, not the whole car.

Greg
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:30 PM, ralph wrote:

 Pretty broad statement: MT is FCC Certified :)
 Yes, I believe the wireless cards themselves might be- but even if  
 they are,
 that does not an FCC certified system make.
 Please give me some FCC registration numbers of certified systems.  
 Something
 like the RB/card/enclosure combination.
 Maybe someone built a system and had it tested and received a number  
 for
 *that system*.

 Thanks

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:00 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 MT is FCC Certified :)

 ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member
 Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
 LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
 Author of Learn RouterOS


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of ralph
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 Marlon-
 You asked, and you probably already know what I will say

 Airaya and others: FCC Certified
 Mikrotik- Not so much
 It all depends on if you want to be legal or not.


 If you want 802.11, then look at the Ubiquiti Powerstation. Seems to
 work
 fine for us, just don't mount it outside.

 Ralph

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:19 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 Hi All,

 I have to upgrade a couple of backhaul systems and I'm wondering what
 others

 are using.

 I've got Airaya gear in place.  I've LOVED it.  That's been some of  
 the
 most

 reliable gear that I've ever used.

 I also like my Mikrotik hardware so far.  We've put quite a bit of  
 it in

 over the last year or so.

 Both of the links I'm going to replace are indoor units with coax to  
 the

 outdoor antennas.  So no fancy weather issues to deal with.

 It would be nice to go with Airaya again.  But the MT hardware to do  
 the

 same job is about 20% of the cost last time I checked.  I hate to go  
 too

 cheap, but I hate to spend too much for no gain.  What are you  
 guys
 using these days?  Again, the antennas and such are already in place,
 all I
 need to replace is the indoor ratios.

 Why would you install what you put in?

 laters,
 marlon



 
 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/


 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

That's been the ongoing argument. 

I use the analogy of a PCMCIA or USB card. that's the device that is FCC 
certified - the computer (routerboard) just runs it.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Excuse my ignorance but since the card is the only thing that  
transmits why does the board and especially why does the enclosure  
need to be certified? If one puts a two way radio in a car the radio  
needs to be certified, not the whole car.

Greg
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:30 PM, ralph wrote:

 Pretty broad statement: MT is FCC Certified :)
 Yes, I believe the wireless cards themselves might be- but even if  
 they are,
 that does not an FCC certified system make.
 Please give me some FCC registration numbers of certified systems.  
 Something
 like the RB/card/enclosure combination.
 Maybe someone built a system and had it tested and received a number  
 for
 *that system*.

 Thanks

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:00 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 MT is FCC Certified :)

 ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member
 Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
 LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
 Author of Learn RouterOS

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of ralph
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 Marlon-
 You asked, and you probably already know what I will say

 Airaya and others: FCC Certified
 Mikrotik- Not so much
 It all depends on if you want to be legal or not.

 If you want 802.11, then look at the Ubiquiti Powerstation. Seems to
 work
 fine for us, just don't mount it outside.

 Ralph

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:19 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 Hi All,

 I have to upgrade a couple of backhaul systems and I'm wondering what
 others

 are using.

 I've got Airaya gear in place.  I've LOVED it.  That's been some of  
 the
 most

 reliable gear that I've ever used.

 I also like my Mikrotik hardware so far.  We've put quite a bit of  
 it in

 over the last year or so.

 Both of the links I'm going to replace are indoor units with coax to  
 the

 outdoor antennas.  So no fancy weather issues to deal with.

 It would be nice to go with Airaya again.  But the MT hardware to do  
 the

 same job is about 20% of the cost last time I checked.  I hate to go  
 too

 cheap, but I hate to spend too much for no gain.  What are you  
 guys
 using these days?  Again, the antennas and such are already in place,
 all I
 need to replace is the indoor ratios.

 Why would you install what you put in?

 laters,
 marlon

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

[WISPA] Hospitality WiFi

We have a very very good AAA/Advertising system in place and I am looking for 
new ways to leverage it.

A few questions for those who are doing Hospitality WiFi:
- Did you sell the system to the hotel or provide all of the 
equipment/installation on your dime?
- What is your revenue split?
- Does the hotel charge for service or provide it with the room?

Not sure what other questions to ask but I'm sure they'll come up.

Thanks in advance




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

The way I understand it, the routerboard don't matter, the antenna, and
radio matters, as its certified as a system, with xx gain of this type
of antenna.  You also have to have the FCC information, etc, on the
outside that MT offers to only its distributors.  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

That's been the ongoing argument. 

I use the analogy of a PCMCIA or USB card. that's the device that is FCC
certified - the computer (routerboard) just runs it.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Excuse my ignorance but since the card is the only thing that  
transmits why does the board and especially why does the enclosure  
need to be certified? If one puts a two way radio in a car the radio  
needs to be certified, not the whole car.

Greg
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:30 PM, ralph wrote:

 Pretty broad statement: MT is FCC Certified :)
 Yes, I believe the wireless cards themselves might be- but even if  
 they are,
 that does not an FCC certified system make.
 Please give me some FCC registration numbers of certified systems.  
 Something
 like the RB/card/enclosure combination.
 Maybe someone built a system and had it tested and received a number  
 for
 *that system*.

 Thanks

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:00 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 MT is FCC Certified :)

 ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member
 Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
 LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
 Author of Learn RouterOS

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of ralph
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 Marlon-
 You asked, and you probably already know what I will say

 Airaya and others: FCC Certified
 Mikrotik- Not so much
 It all depends on if you want to be legal or not.

 If you want 802.11, then look at the Ubiquiti Powerstation. Seems to
 work
 fine for us, just don't mount it outside.

 Ralph

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:19 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 Hi All,

 I have to upgrade a couple of backhaul systems and I'm wondering what
 others

 are using.

 I've got Airaya gear in place.  I've LOVED it.  That's been some of  
 the
 most

 reliable gear that I've ever used.

 I also like my Mikrotik hardware so far.  We've put quite a bit of  
 it in

 over the last year or so.

 Both of the links I'm going to replace are indoor units with coax to  
 the

 outdoor antennas.  So no fancy weather issues to deal with.

 It would be nice to go with Airaya again.  But the MT hardware to do  
 the

 same job is about 20% of the cost last time I checked.  I hate to go  
 too

 cheap, but I hate to spend too much for no gain.  What are you  
 guys
 using these days?  Again, the antennas and such are already in place,
 all I
 need to replace is the indoor ratios.

 Why would you install what you put in?

 laters,
 marlon

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives:

Re: [WISPA] Hospitality WiFi

2009-09-15 Thread Layne Sisk

Most of the ISPs that we support who provide Hospitality WiFi put the
equipment in and charge the hotel on a per room basis.  I believe that
most of the hotels simply provide the service free of charge.

-Layne

Layne Sisk
ServerPlus 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:23 PM
To: WISPA General List; Motorola Canopy User Group
Subject: [WISPA] Hospitality WiFi

We have a very very good AAA/Advertising system in place and I am
looking for new ways to leverage it.

A few questions for those who are doing Hospitality WiFi:
- Did you sell the system to the hotel or provide all of the
equipment/installation on your dime?
- What is your revenue split?
- Does the hotel charge for service or provide it with the room?

Not sure what other questions to ask but I'm sure they'll come up.

Thanks in advance





WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/


 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/

 
WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

The way I understand it (and I was told this comes from an FCC field officer) 
is that the FCC ID of the radio device (Ubie/MT/other card) needs to be visible 
on the case (for the purposes of easy identification so they don't need to rip 
it off the pole and open it up). The antenna used needs to be of same type/gain 
as the antenna the radio was certified with. 

As long as you meet these requirements you are in compliance.

This is third party information and was not said directly to me however I trust 
the source.

Jerry

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Dennis Burgess
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 4:32 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

The way I understand it, the routerboard don't matter, the antenna, and
radio matters, as its certified as a system, with xx gain of this type
of antenna.  You also have to have the FCC information, etc, on the
outside that MT offers to only its distributors.  

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:12 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

That's been the ongoing argument. 

I use the analogy of a PCMCIA or USB card. that's the device that is FCC
certified - the computer (routerboard) just runs it.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of os10ru...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 2:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

Excuse my ignorance but since the card is the only thing that  
transmits why does the board and especially why does the enclosure  
need to be certified? If one puts a two way radio in a car the radio  
needs to be certified, not the whole car.

Greg
On Sep 14, 2009, at 8:30 PM, ralph wrote:

 Pretty broad statement: MT is FCC Certified :)
 Yes, I believe the wireless cards themselves might be- but even if  
 they are,
 that does not an FCC certified system make.
 Please give me some FCC registration numbers of certified systems.  
 Something
 like the RB/card/enclosure combination.
 Maybe someone built a system and had it tested and received a number  
 for
 *that system*.

 Thanks

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Dennis Burgess
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 12:00 PM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 MT is FCC Certified :)

 ---
 Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
 WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
 Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik  WISP Support Services
 WISPA Vendor Member
 Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
 LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
 Author of Learn RouterOS


 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of ralph
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 10:57 AM
 To: 'WISPA General List'
 Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 Marlon-
 You asked, and you probably already know what I will say

 Airaya and others: FCC Certified
 Mikrotik- Not so much
 It all depends on if you want to be legal or not.


 If you want 802.11, then look at the Ubiquiti Powerstation. Seems to
 work
 fine for us, just don't mount it outside.

 Ralph

 -Original Message-
 From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]  
 On
 Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
 Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 11:19 AM
 To: WISPA General List
 Subject: [WISPA] backhaul choices

 Hi All,

 I have to upgrade a couple of backhaul systems and I'm wondering what
 others

 are using.

 I've got Airaya gear in place.  I've LOVED it.  That's been some of  
 the
 most

 reliable gear that I've ever used.

 I also like my Mikrotik hardware so far.  We've put quite a bit of  
 it in

 over the last year or so.

 Both of the links I'm going to replace are indoor units with coax to  
 the

 outdoor antennas.  So no fancy weather issues to deal with.

 It would be nice to go with Airaya again.  But the MT hardware to do  
 the

 same job is about 20% of the cost last time I checked.  I hate to go  
 too

 cheap, but I hate to spend too much for no gain.  What are you  
 guys
 using these days?  Again, the antennas and such are already in place,
 all I
 need to replace is the indoor ratios.

 Why would you install what you put in?

 laters,
 marlon





 
 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


 
 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives:

[WISPA] Mikrotik Problem - 900Mhz-WDS-incremental speed degrade tp Zero then drop- repeat.