Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a coincidentally solved by changing the config..? On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented, but I don't think he needs that. I would just put up a link and be happy! Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable link! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore, MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern. I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's 40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome. Don't use the 532/333 (433ah IMO) or dual nstreme (use Butch's pseudo fdx OSPF) and you'll get that .999%. On 9/16/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: Marlon, I haven't seen every post on this thread but have been keeping eye on it at a distance... Why would you not want to use a MT solution for about $500 for the link with the ability to easily go 30/60MB depending on 20/40Mhz channel. I'd say its proven there are a multitude of people that use the gear for backhaul on this list and any of them will tell you its a solid performer. Is it the absolute most reliable rock solid gear available? Depends who you ask. I've had MT gear running I've forgotten about for many years without a hickup. Also had some that has to be replaced a bit more than other solutions might need to be due to ethernet sensitiity - depends on how where its installed. But, considering the alternative prices you could get an awful lot more for your money with this solution. You could even put in two radios on each side and link them together using on of many different ways for redundancy - still at a fraction of the cost of other solutions. The positive side is your price range is very realistic for that throughput - you have many good solid choices you won't go wrong with most of which has been discussed on this list already. I'll give you one more... I have an external trango Atlas link coming down in about a week I can part with ;) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Uh, guys, this is interesting. But it doesn't answer the original question! I don't have a need for a 100meg full duplex backhaul solution. 20 megs both ways will do just fine for now. What ideas do y'all have for a 20+ meg backhaul solution. Something less than $3000 if it's at all possible. I know about the MT gear. I''ve already used one. And I REALLY like the Airaya gear it'll replace. I'm just wondering what people are using and liking. I don't want any unproven brand new gear. Or something too cheap like an 802.11a ap and client setup. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 13:22 -0400, ralph wrote: As far as I can tell from the FCC info, only 2 routerboards have any FCC Part 15 Class A or B computing device approval. They are the Crossroads and the RB411- both of which already have on board wireless. You are half correct. The Crossroads does have a built-in radio. The RB411 does not. There IS a RB411R that has a built-in radio (2.4GHz). -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List:
Re: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.
Using the same coax as you have been using? Any new guys crimping the connectors??? Something has to be different. Might be the signal jumps when the wind blows? check the connections, maybe. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids. Well this is strange, we've seen it on different model Grids. We saw the same behavior with Non-M and M based Bullets. The signal just keeps bouncing 20db from -74 to -94 for example, with an Andrew it is solid at around the -74. Is it possible they are defective? I can't see how we could be assembling these things improperly, it's pretty obvious. We do use them in Horizontal polarity, but the feedhorn is parallel to the wires when we do this. I mean it's like it's flipping between HPOL/VPOL. Regards Michael Baird I've been installing pac grids with the 5ghz version of the new Bullet, the 5hp, and it's been darn stable. Could it be something in the Airmax or the 2ghz??? Dunno. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids. What grid type/vendors are most using here. Our installers are having some issues with our Grid deployments. We've tried a few types of Pac-Wireless's, some of them have had wildly fluctuating signal levels they bounce 20db. Our Andrew grids seem to work fine, but we are looking for a less costly alternative, any ideas? We are using Ubiquity Bullet2-HP's as the client radios on these things. I'm just wondering what causes this, we can take a different radio/antenna and get a rock solid connection on the same pole, so we've discounted some kind of interference issue. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you can find it on line. The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're suggesting as I understood the circular. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. The NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer money optimally wisely and benefit the public, and adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, but didn;t have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get approved if its less good? And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA what we think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the public that has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that targeted truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that would directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I plan to protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- existing providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them into the proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they deserve to have their applications protested, in my opinion. As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on applying for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and advising that the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to projects without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny the conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe fairly considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and isn't underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the areas. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Seriously? You would categorize government-subsidized broadband expansion as capitalistic
Re: [WISPA] Need Lightning Arrestor Advice
As the cost is minimal I would attach the arrestor to a ground rod at or near the unit then another ground rod at the structure just before cable entry, if you think the strikes are going to be on a more constant rate. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of James McBryan Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:52 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Need Lightning Arrestor Advice Hello all, I am part of a group installing a wireless network in rural Honduras for a growing educational system with a chapter of Engineers Without Borders (http://ewb-usa.org). We are creating a 7 node wireless network spanning a 3 mile radius. Since Honduras is very prone to rain storms and lightning strikes, we need to protect our equipment from the lightning. We plan on doing the following: 1) Place an arrestor between the radio and the antenna 2) Place an arrestor in the POE injector Some of the following criteria we are thinking: Amount of lightning strikes: One or Many Insertion Loss: Small as possbile Frequency : 2.4-5.8 GHZ When searching the internet, I see many many types of lightning arrestors given my criteria. Does anyone have any recommendations through their experience with lightning arrestors? What do you use? Thanks! James WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Need Lightning Arrestor Advice
For us, we also do an arrestor before the radio, a gas discharge unit. We also use an arrestor before the POE injector and anyplace else a cable enters a structure or piece of equipment. We use shielded and flooded Cat5 cable with a static drain wire attached to shielded cat5 connectors and also grounded. (The static can give you problems just as much as lighting) For ground, we try to stay away from just wire and use copper strap where we can. 1.5 to 2. In a pinch I've cut copper pipe in half to give me the strap needed. (Never make any sharp angles with the grounds, lightning likes to go in a straight line) On our MT boxes, I put a thin copper sheet on the inside and outside where the gas discharge is inserted and attach a copper ground terminal to it on the outside and use that to ground to the structure we are on. For good measure, I use a lighting rated surge protector wherever we get commercial power. 20 bucks here from Ace Hardware. Says they will pay for up to $50,000 in damages caused by lightning. (I always thought, the surge has 6 outlets to plug things in - - What 6 things could I possibly have that would total $50,000 and if I did, why would I trust a $20 adapter from Ace Hardware???) What we do is probably overkill in our area but we haven't lost a unit yet. I obviously modify everything, it's a curse. The experts in all this are the cellular and broadcast tower people. Look around on the methods they use. Polyphaser is a good place to look for ideas, http://www.polyphaser.com/ I can't afford much of what they sell but it's good to see what's out there. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of James McBryan Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 11:52 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Need Lightning Arrestor Advice Hello all, I am part of a group installing a wireless network in rural Honduras for a growing educational system with a chapter of Engineers Without Borders (http://ewb-usa.org). We are creating a 7 node wireless network spanning a 3 mile radius. Since Honduras is very prone to rain storms and lightning strikes, we need to protect our equipment from the lightning. We plan on doing the following: 1) Place an arrestor between the radio and the antenna 2) Place an arrestor in the POE injector Some of the following criteria we are thinking: Amount of lightning strikes: One or Many Insertion Loss: Small as possbile Frequency : 2.4-5.8 GHZ When searching the internet, I see many many types of lightning arrestors given my criteria. Does anyone have any recommendations through their experience with lightning arrestors? What do you use? Thanks! James WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or Static-Routed link is well documented. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a coincidentally solved by changing the config..? On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented, but I don't think he needs that. I would just put up a link and be happy! Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable link! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore, MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern. I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's 40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome. Don't use the 532/333 (433ah IMO) or dual nstreme (use Butch's pseudo fdx OSPF) and you'll get that .999%. On 9/16/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: Marlon, I haven't seen every post on this thread but have been keeping eye on it at a distance... Why would you not want to use a MT solution for about $500 for the link with the ability to easily go 30/60MB depending on 20/40Mhz channel. I'd say its proven there are a multitude of people that use the gear for backhaul on this list and any of them will tell you its a solid performer. Is it the absolute most reliable rock solid gear available? Depends who you ask. I've had MT gear running I've forgotten about for many years without a hickup. Also had some that has to be replaced a bit more than other solutions might need to be due to ethernet sensitiity - depends on how where its installed. But, considering the alternative prices you could get an awful lot more for your money with this solution. You could even put in two radios on each side and link them together using on of many different ways for redundancy - still at a fraction of the cost of other solutions. The positive side is your price range is very realistic for that throughput - you have many good solid choices you won't go wrong with most of which has been discussed on this list already. I'll give you one more... I have an external trango Atlas link coming down in about a week I can part with ;) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Uh, guys, this is interesting. But it doesn't answer the original question! I don't have a need for a 100meg full duplex backhaul solution. 20 megs both ways will do just fine for now. What ideas do y'all have for a 20+ meg backhaul solution. Something less than $3000 if it's at all possible. I know about the MT gear. I''ve already used one. And I REALLY like the Airaya gear it'll replace. I'm just wondering what people are using and liking. I don't want any unproven brand new gear. Or something too cheap like an 802.11a ap and client setup. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices On Wed, 2009-09-16 at 13:22 -0400, ralph wrote: As far as I can tell from the FCC info, only 2 routerboards have any FCC Part 15 Class A or B computing device approval. They are the Crossroads and the RB411- both of which already have on board wireless. You are half correct. The Crossroads does have a built-in radio. The RB411 does not. There IS a RB411R that has a built-in radio (2.4GHz). -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ *
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you can find it on line. The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're suggesting as I understood the circular. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. The NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer money optimally wisely and benefit the public, and adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, but didn;t have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get approved if its less good? And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA what we think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the public that has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that targeted truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that would directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I plan to protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- existing providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them into the proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they deserve to have their applications protested, in my opinion. As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on applying for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and advising that the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to projects without alledged conflict of interests first, and at minimum deny the conflcit of interest applicants until round2, where they can be mroe fairly considered, and so there is more time to gain fact on what is and isn't underserved areas, and consider all potential applicants for the areas. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: L. Aaron Kaplan aa...@lo-res.org To: WISPA
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or Static-Routed link is well documented. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a coincidentally solved by changing the config..? On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented, but I don't think he needs that. I would just put up a link and be happy! Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable link! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore, MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern. I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's 40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome. Don't use the 532/333 (433ah IMO) or dual nstreme (use Butch's pseudo fdx OSPF) and you'll get that .999%. On 9/16/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: Marlon, I haven't seen every post on this thread but have been keeping eye on it at a distance... Why would you not want to use a MT solution for about $500 for the link with the ability to easily go 30/60MB depending on 20/40Mhz channel. I'd say its proven there are a multitude of people that use the gear for backhaul on this list and any of them will tell you its a solid performer. Is it the absolute most reliable rock solid gear available? Depends who you ask. I've had MT gear running I've forgotten about for many years without a hickup. Also had some that has to be replaced a bit more than other solutions might need to be due to ethernet sensitiity - depends on how where its installed. But, considering the alternative prices you could get an awful lot more for your money with this solution. You could even put in two radios on each side and link them together using on of many different ways for redundancy - still at a fraction of the cost of other solutions. The positive side is your price range is very realistic for that throughput - you have many good solid choices you won't go wrong with most of which has been discussed on this list already. I'll give you one more... I have an external trango Atlas link coming down in about a week I can part with ;) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Uh, guys, this is interesting. But it doesn't answer the original question! I don't have a need for a 100meg full duplex backhaul solution. 20 megs both ways will do just fine for now. What ideas do y'all have for a 20+ meg backhaul solution. Something less than $3000 if it's at all possible. I know about the MT gear. I''ve already used one. And I REALLY like the Airaya gear it'll replace. I'm just wondering what people are using and liking. I don't want any unproven brand new gear. Or something too cheap like an 802.11a ap and client setup. thanks, marlon - Original Message - From: Butch Evans but...@butchevans.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 3:53 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices On Wed,
Re: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids.
It sounds like your problem might be one of wrong focal length. As I recall the focal length of the 2.4GHz 24dBi grid was around 16 inches. If your focal length is off, then any twisting or movement of the wire grid will have a big effect on the dipole output. Regards, Scott -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 7:18 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids. Using the same coax as you have been using? Any new guys crimping the connectors??? Something has to be different. Might be the signal jumps when the wind blows? check the connections, maybe. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:07 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids. Well this is strange, we've seen it on different model Grids. We saw the same behavior with Non-M and M based Bullets. The signal just keeps bouncing 20db from -74 to -94 for example, with an Andrew it is solid at around the -74. Is it possible they are defective? I can't see how we could be assembling these things improperly, it's pretty obvious. We do use them in Horizontal polarity, but the feedhorn is parallel to the wires when we do this. I mean it's like it's flipping between HPOL/VPOL. Regards Michael Baird I've been installing pac grids with the 5ghz version of the new Bullet, the 5hp, and it's been darn stable. Could it be something in the Airmax or the 2ghz??? Dunno. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Michael Baird Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 5:58 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: [WISPA] 2.4 ghz 24db grids. What grid type/vendors are most using here. Our installers are having some issues with our Grid deployments. We've tried a few types of Pac-Wireless's, some of them have had wildly fluctuating signal levels they bounce 20db. Our Andrew grids seem to work fine, but we are looking for a less costly alternative, any ideas? We are using Ubiquity Bullet2-HP's as the client radios on these things. I'm just wondering what causes this, we can take a different radio/antenna and get a rock solid connection on the same pole, so we've discounted some kind of interference issue. Regards Michael Baird WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of towers and radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you can find it on line. The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're suggesting as I understood the circular. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. The NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer money optimally wisely and benefit the public, and adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, but didn;t have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get approved if its less good? And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA what we think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the public that has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that targeted truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that would directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I plan to protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- existing providers or called them a head of time to work benefit for them into the proposal to gain their support. If they didn't do that, they deserve to have their applications protested, in my opinion. As well, if a grant application covers an area that you entended on applying for in Round2, I see no problem in telling NTIA/RUS that, and advising that the Round1 funds are oversubscribed, and Round1 funds should go to projects without alledged conflict of interests first,
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or Static-Routed link is well documented. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a coincidentally solved by changing the config..? On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented, but I don't think he needs that. I would just put up a link and be happy! Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable link! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore, MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern. I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's 40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome. Don't use the 532/333 (433ah IMO) or dual nstreme (use Butch's pseudo fdx OSPF) and you'll get that .999%. On 9/16/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: Marlon, I haven't seen every post on this thread but have been keeping eye on it at a distance... Why would you not want to use a MT solution for about $500 for the link with the ability to easily go 30/60MB depending on 20/40Mhz channel. I'd say its proven there are a multitude of people that use the gear for backhaul on this list and any of them will tell you its a solid performer. Is it the absolute most reliable rock solid gear available? Depends who you ask. I've had MT gear running I've forgotten about for many years without a hickup. Also had some that has to be replaced a bit more than other solutions might need to be due to ethernet sensitiity - depends on how where its installed. But, considering the alternative prices you could get an awful lot more for your money with this solution. You could even put in two radios on each side and link them together using on of many different ways for redundancy - still at a fraction of the cost of other solutions. The positive side is your price range is very realistic for that throughput - you have many good solid choices you won't go wrong with most of which has been discussed on this list already. I'll give you one more... I have an external trango Atlas link coming down in about a week I can part with ;) Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:57 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Uh, guys, this is interesting. But it doesn't answer the original question! I don't have a need for a 100meg full duplex backhaul solution. 20 megs both ways will do just fine for now. What ideas do y'all have for a 20+ meg backhaul solution. Something less than $3000 if it's at all possible. I know about the MT gear. I''ve already used one. And I REALLY like the Airaya gear it'll replace.
Re: [WISPA] Need Lightning Arrestor Advice
Gas discharge type surge protector between antenna and radio. Ethernet surge protector close to radio. Shielded CAT5 cable ground terminated inside structure. Surge protector and/or UPS on power supply inside structure. Scot -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of James McBryan Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:52 PM To: wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Need Lightning Arrestor Advice Hello all, I am part of a group installing a wireless network in rural Honduras for a growing educational system with a chapter of Engineers Without Borders (http://ewb-usa.org). We are creating a 7 node wireless network spanning a 3 mile radius. Since Honduras is very prone to rain storms and lightning strikes, we need to protect our equipment from the lightning. We plan on doing the following: 1) Place an arrestor between the radio and the antenna 2) Place an arrestor in the POE injector Some of the following criteria we are thinking: Amount of lightning strikes: One or Many Insertion Loss: Small as possbile Frequency : 2.4-5.8 GHZ When searching the internet, I see many many types of lightning arrestors given my criteria. Does anyone have any recommendations through their experience with lightning arrestors? What do you use? Thanks! James WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself.
What is it? Referring to dual nstreme?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote:
I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they
had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times
although I never tried it for myself.
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups.
Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done
with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four
bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges).
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however
improbable, must be the truth.
--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess
dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote:
Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups
while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the
conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or
Static-Routed link is well documented.
---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of Learn RouterOS
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a
coincidentally solved by changing the config..?
On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote:
OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented,
but I don't think he needs that. I would just put up a link and be
happy! Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable
link!
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
On
Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM
To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore,
MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern.
I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's
40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome. Don't use the 532/333
(433ah IMO) or dual nstreme (use Butch's pseudo fdx OSPF) and you'll
get that .999%.
On 9/16/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote:
Marlon,
I haven't seen every post on this thread but have been keeping eye on
it at
a distance...
Why would you not want to use a MT solution for about $500 for the
link
with the ability to easily go 30/60MB depending on 20/40Mhz channel.
I'd
say its proven there are a multitude of people that use the gear for
backhaul on this list and any of them will tell you its a solid
performer.
Is it the absolute most reliable rock solid gear available? Depends
who
you ask. I've had MT gear running I've forgotten about for many
years
without a hickup. Also had some that has to be replaced a bit more
than
other solutions might need to be due to ethernet sensitiity - depends
on
how where its installed.
But, considering the alternative prices you could get an awful lot
more for
your money with this solution. You could even put in two radios on
each
side and link them together using on of many different ways for
redundancy
- still at a fraction of the cost of other solutions.
The positive side is your price range is very realistic for that
throughput
- you have many good solid choices you won't go wrong with most of
which
has been discussed on this list already. I'll give you one more...
I
have
an external trango Atlas link coming down in about a week I can part
with
;)
Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102
Original Message
From: Marlon K. Schafer o...@odessaoffice.com
Sent: Wednesday,
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
Yeah, locks up. But again, I haven't tried it but from what I've read I'll pass on it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. What is it? Referring to dual nstreme? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or Static-Routed link is well documented. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a coincidentally solved by changing the config..? On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented, but I don't think he needs that. I would just put up a link and be happy! Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable link! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore, MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern. I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's 40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome. Don't use the 532/333 (433ah IMO) or dual nstreme (use Butch's pseudo fdx OSPF) and you'll get that .999%. On 9/16/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: Marlon, I haven't seen every post on this thread but have been keeping eye on it at a distance... Why would you not want to use a MT solution for about $500 for the link with the ability to easily go 30/60MB depending on 20/40Mhz channel. I'd say its proven there are a multitude of people that use the gear for backhaul on this list and any of them will tell you its a solid performer. Is it the absolute most reliable rock solid gear available? Depends who you ask. I've had MT gear running I've forgotten about for many years without a hickup. Also had some that has to be replaced a bit more than other solutions might need to be due to ethernet sensitiity - depends on how where its installed. But, considering the alternative prices you could get an awful lot more for your money with this solution. You could even put in two radios on each side and link them together using on of many different ways for redundancy - still at a fraction of the cost of other solutions. The positive side is your price range is very realistic for that throughput - you have many good solid choices you won't go wrong with most of which has been discussed
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
Good for weeks or months. Terrible for a long term link. Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it going yourself. Well worth it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Yeah, locks up. But again, I haven't tried it but from what I've read I'll pass on it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. What is it? Referring to dual nstreme? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or Static-Routed link is well documented. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a coincidentally solved by changing the config..? On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented, but I don't think he needs that. I would just put up a link and be happy! Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable link! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore, MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern. I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's 40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome. Don't use the 532/333 (433ah IMO) or dual nstreme (use Butch's pseudo fdx OSPF) and you'll get that .999%. On 9/16/09, Scott Carullo sc...@brevardwireless.com wrote: Marlon, I haven't seen every post on this thread but have been keeping eye on it at a distance... Why would you not want to use a MT solution for about $500 for the link with the ability to easily go 30/60MB depending on 20/40Mhz channel. I'd say its proven there are a multitude of people that use the gear for backhaul on this list and any of them will tell you its a solid performer. Is it the absolute most reliable rock solid gear available? Depends who you ask. I've had MT gear running I've forgotten about for many years without a hickup. Also had some that has to be replaced a bit more
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I have been out of the office for several days and no access to email. I am looking at the USDA map and do not see the broadband grant applications. Can someone give me a link? Thanks, Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Robert West Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 9:57 AM To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of towers and radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you can find it on line. The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any form about an individual application, yours or anyone else's. It might sound like I'm nay-saying here, but I'm just pointing out what the law allows you to do-and it doesn't allow the approach you're suggesting as I understood the circular. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:28 PM, Tom DeReggi wrote: Its also feasible to protest a plan simply because its a poor plan. The NTIA/RUS needs to approve grants for companies that use tax payer money optimally wisely and benefit the public, and adhere to the NOFA rules. If you think you can do a better plan, but didn;t have time to submit it until Round2, why should the ROund1 plan get approved if its less good? And if one doubts the entent of an applicant, we should tell NTIA what we think. We are not only competing providers, but we are also the public that has to pay the taxes 5to fund these projects. I know in my State, there were numerous good applications that targeted truely needy areas, and made an effort to avoid other provider infrastructure. I plan to support those projects. For example only about 20% in my opinion were bad applications that would directly compete with me and other WISPs in their core markets. I plan to protest that 20%. Anyone that was smart would have avoided pre- existing providers or called them a head of time
[WISPA] Canopy Restricted Access
Is it possible to give someone read only access to a Canopy AP? I have tried the installer and technetium rights and both seem to be able to change settings and reboot. Jory Privett Partnership Broadband WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 11:23 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it going yourself. Well worth it. http://blog.butchevans.com/2008/10/using-ospf-to-create-full-duplex-behaviour-for-wireless-links/ I believe it is still on my other website at http://www.butchevans.com/ in an article. Both of these predate the Mikrotik Wiki. I have used this approach many times and it just simply works. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices
Looks nice. Thanks Butch! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Butch Evans Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:12 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices On Thu, 2009-09-17 at 11:23 -0400, Josh Luthman wrote: Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it going yourself. Well worth it. http://blog.butchevans.com/2008/10/using-ospf-to-create-full-duplex-behaviou r-for-wireless-links/ I believe it is still on my other website at http://www.butchevans.com/ in an article. Both of these predate the Mikrotik Wiki. I have used this approach many times and it just simply works. -- * Butch Evans * Professional Network Consultation* * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering * * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks * * http://blog.butchevans.com/ * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE! * WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices )
Anyone else had a chance to play with MPLS much on the mikrotiks? Having read the wiki article* about using MPLS to bridge two networks (instead of WDS or EoIP) I have tried it on a new link I put up. So far so good. I think I need to play with the MTU settings a bit more to optimize it. What I'm wondering is if Mikrotik MPLS can be used as a load balancing method on dual radios, where OSPF routing may not be appropriate. http://www.nil.com/ipcorner/LoadSharingTE explores a couple load balancing approaches, including MPLS on Cisco. Anyone confident enough in their MPLS skills to try to make this work on Mikrotik wireless links? Seems like it could combine benefits of the ospf method with transparent bridging. Randy * Wiki link: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Transparently_Bridge_two_Networks_using_MPLS Josh Luthman wrote: Good for weeks or months. Terrible for a long term link. Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it going yourself. Well worth it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Yeah, locks up. But again, I haven't tried it but from what I've read I'll pass on it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. What is it? Referring to dual nstreme? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or Static-Routed link is well documented. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a coincidentally solved by changing the config..? On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented, but I don't think he needs that. I would just put up a link and be happy! Keep in mind, installation is key to a quality and reliable link! -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:39 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices Assuming you can get 40mhz of 5ghz spectrum and not need it anymore, MT is great and it's cheap. Finding that 40mhz is your major concern. I am running two backhauls, each with two pairs of radios (that's 40mhz of spectrum) and they're 99% awesome. Don't use the 532/333
Re: [WISPA] Need Lightning Arrestor Advice
I'm not sure which Ethernet surge protection I'd recommend, but PolyPhaser does it best, in my opinion, for RF. At 10:51 PM 9/16/2009, you wrote: Hello all, I am part of a group installing a wireless network in rural Honduras for a growing educational system with a chapter of Engineers Without Borders (http://ewb-usa.org). We are creating a 7 node wireless network spanning a 3 mile radius. Since Honduras is very prone to rain storms and lightning strikes, we need to protect our equipment from the lightning. We plan on doing the following: 1) Place an arrestor between the radio and the antenna 2) Place an arrestor in the POE injector Some of the following criteria we are thinking: Amount of lightning strikes: One or Many Insertion Loss: Small as possbile Frequency : 2.4-5.8 GHZ When searching the internet, I see many many types of lightning arrestors given my criteria. Does anyone have any recommendations through their experience with lightning arrestors? What do you use? Thanks! James WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices )
I've been using for bridging with the N hardware without issue (knock knock) Not sure about dual radio setup options using MPLS/VPLS though... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:18 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices ) Anyone else had a chance to play with MPLS much on the mikrotiks? Having read the wiki article* about using MPLS to bridge two networks (instead of WDS or EoIP) I have tried it on a new link I put up. So far so good. I think I need to play with the MTU settings a bit more to optimize it. What I'm wondering is if Mikrotik MPLS can be used as a load balancing method on dual radios, where OSPF routing may not be appropriate. http://www.nil.com/ipcorner/LoadSharingTE explores a couple load balancing approaches, including MPLS on Cisco. Anyone confident enough in their MPLS skills to try to make this work on Mikrotik wireless links? Seems like it could combine benefits of the ospf method with transparent bridging. Randy * Wiki link: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Transparently_Bridge_two_Networks_using_MPLS Josh Luthman wrote: Good for weeks or months. Terrible for a long term link. Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it going yourself. Well worth it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Yeah, locks up. But again, I haven't tried it but from what I've read I'll pass on it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. What is it? Referring to dual nstreme? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or Static-Routed link is well documented. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a coincidentally solved by changing the config..? On 9/17/09, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net wrote: OSPF Full duplex is no biggy, anyone can do it and is well documented, but I don't think he needs that. I would just put up a link and be happy! Keep in mind, installation is key to a
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices )
Just curious - what routerboards are you using? Are you bridging vlans across the link? Randy Scott Carullo wrote: I've been using for bridging with the N hardware without issue (knock knock) Not sure about dual radio setup options using MPLS/VPLS though... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:18 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices ) Anyone else had a chance to play with MPLS much on the mikrotiks? Having read the wiki article* about using MPLS to bridge two networks (instead of WDS or EoIP) I have tried it on a new link I put up. So far so good. I think I need to play with the MTU settings a bit more to optimize it. What I'm wondering is if Mikrotik MPLS can be used as a load balancing method on dual radios, where OSPF routing may not be appropriate. http://www.nil.com/ipcorner/LoadSharingTE explores a couple load balancing approaches, including MPLS on Cisco. Anyone confident enough in their MPLS skills to try to make this work on Mikrotik wireless links? Seems like it could combine benefits of the ospf method with transparent bridging. Randy * Wiki link: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Transparently_Bridge_two_Networks_using_MPLS Josh Luthman wrote: Good for weeks or months. Terrible for a long term link. Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it going yourself. Well worth it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Yeah, locks up. But again, I haven't tried it but from what I've read I'll pass on it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. What is it? Referring to dual nstreme? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or Static-Routed link is well documented. --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 5:12 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices So the three lock ups on my links while using dual nstreme were just a
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices )
Friends don't let Friends Bridge Networks! ARG! LOL --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:07 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices ) Just curious - what routerboards are you using? Are you bridging vlans across the link? Randy Scott Carullo wrote: I've been using for bridging with the N hardware without issue (knock knock) Not sure about dual radio setup options using MPLS/VPLS though... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:18 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices ) Anyone else had a chance to play with MPLS much on the mikrotiks? Having read the wiki article* about using MPLS to bridge two networks (instead of WDS or EoIP) I have tried it on a new link I put up. So far so good. I think I need to play with the MTU settings a bit more to optimize it. What I'm wondering is if Mikrotik MPLS can be used as a load balancing method on dual radios, where OSPF routing may not be appropriate. http://www.nil.com/ipcorner/LoadSharingTE explores a couple load balancing approaches, including MPLS on Cisco. Anyone confident enough in their MPLS skills to try to make this work on Mikrotik wireless links? Seems like it could combine benefits of the ospf method with transparent bridging. Randy * Wiki link: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Transparently_Bridge_two_Networks_using_MP LS Josh Luthman wrote: Good for weeks or months. Terrible for a long term link. Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it going yourself. Well worth it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Yeah, locks up. But again, I haven't tried it but from what I've read I'll pass on it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. What is it? Referring to dual nstreme? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex OSPF or Static-Routed link is well documented.
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices )
I generally agree. However, everything on the other end of the network is either enforced as PPPOE-only, or stuff we manage (ups monitoring, etc.). No problems with packet storms, arp tables, etc. I've seen a couple big flat nets with dhcp servers on the far side.. it's crazy. Randy Dennis Burgess wrote: Friends don't let Friends Bridge Networks! ARG! LOL --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:07 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices ) Just curious - what routerboards are you using? Are you bridging vlans across the link? Randy Scott Carullo wrote: I've been using for bridging with the N hardware without issue (knock knock) Not sure about dual radio setup options using MPLS/VPLS though... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:18 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices ) Anyone else had a chance to play with MPLS much on the mikrotiks? Having read the wiki article* about using MPLS to bridge two networks (instead of WDS or EoIP) I have tried it on a new link I put up. So far so good. I think I need to play with the MTU settings a bit more to optimize it. What I'm wondering is if Mikrotik MPLS can be used as a load balancing method on dual radios, where OSPF routing may not be appropriate. http://www.nil.com/ipcorner/LoadSharingTE explores a couple load balancing approaches, including MPLS on Cisco. Anyone confident enough in their MPLS skills to try to make this work on Mikrotik wireless links? Seems like it could combine benefits of the ospf method with transparent bridging. Randy * Wiki link: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Transparently_Bridge_two_Networks_using_MP LS Josh Luthman wrote: Good for weeks or months. Terrible for a long term link. Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it going yourself. Well worth it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Yeah, locks up. But again, I haven't tried it but from what I've read I'll pass on it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. What is it? Referring to dual nstreme? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices )
I never got that t-shirt. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions http://www.ics-il.com -- From: Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.net Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:08 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices ) Friends don't let Friends Bridge Networks! ARG! LOL --- Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer WISPA Board Member - wispa.org Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik WISP Support Services WISPA Vendor Member Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training Author of Learn RouterOS -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Randy Cosby Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:07 PM To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices ) Just curious - what routerboards are you using? Are you bridging vlans across the link? Randy Scott Carullo wrote: I've been using for bridging with the N hardware without issue (knock knock) Not sure about dual radio setup options using MPLS/VPLS though... Scott Carullo Brevard Wireless 321-205-1100 x102 Original Message From: Randy Cosby dco...@infowest.com Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 12:18 PM To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Subject: [WISPA] Mikrotik load balancing ( was backhaul choices ) Anyone else had a chance to play with MPLS much on the mikrotiks? Having read the wiki article* about using MPLS to bridge two networks (instead of WDS or EoIP) I have tried it on a new link I put up. So far so good. I think I need to play with the MTU settings a bit more to optimize it. What I'm wondering is if Mikrotik MPLS can be used as a load balancing method on dual radios, where OSPF routing may not be appropriate. http://www.nil.com/ipcorner/LoadSharingTE explores a couple load balancing approaches, including MPLS on Cisco. Anyone confident enough in their MPLS skills to try to make this work on Mikrotik wireless links? Seems like it could combine benefits of the ospf method with transparent bridging. Randy * Wiki link: http://wiki.mikrotik.com/wiki/Transparently_Bridge_two_Networks_using_MP LS Josh Luthman wrote: Good for weeks or months. Terrible for a long term link. Have Butch set it up in a few minutes or read the documentation and get it going yourself. Well worth it. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 11:19 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: Yeah, locks up. But again, I haven't tried it but from what I've read I'll pass on it. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:03 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. What is it? Referring to dual nstreme? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.comwrote: I've heard the same thing over in the Mikrotik forums. The solution they had is the same as Josh here says. It tends to fall on its face at times although I never tried it for myself. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:26 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] backhaul choices I am suggesting don't use dual nstreme as it causes lock ups. Use OSPF to create a pseudo FDX bridge between two links. Personally done with 1 RB and 2 radios on each side, but could work with 1 RB and four bullets/comparable (just need to make sure they're true bridges). Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Dennis Burgess dmburg...@linktechs.netwrote: Don't know what that means? I am assuming that you had some lockups while using dual nstream. Don't think that was part of the conversation. I was just saying that doing a Full Duplex
[WISPA] Keep your Internet away from my garlic!
Just in case the I'm allergic to wi-fi folks weren't enough comedy... A Nova Scotia garlic farmer has put the brakes on high-speed internet coming to Victoria Harbour, a rural community on the Bay of Fundy, fearing radiation from microwave towers will affect his crops. Lenny Levine, who has been planting and harvesting garlic by hand on his Annapolis Valley land since the 1970s, is* afraid his organic crop could be irradiated* if EastLink builds a microwave tower for wireless high-speed internet access a few hundred metres from his farm. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/09/16/ns-internet-tower.html David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Keep your Internet away from my garlic!
Lenny Levine - do you have any evidence or proof or suggestive material for this? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 2:21 PM, David E. Smith d...@mvn.net wrote: Just in case the I'm allergic to wi-fi folks weren't enough comedy... A Nova Scotia garlic farmer has put the brakes on high-speed internet coming to Victoria Harbour, a rural community on the Bay of Fundy, fearing radiation from microwave towers will affect his crops. Lenny Levine, who has been planting and harvesting garlic by hand on his Annapolis Valley land since the 1970s, is* afraid his organic crop could be irradiated* if EastLink builds a microwave tower for wireless high-speed internet access a few hundred metres from his farm. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/09/16/ns-internet-tower.html David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I dont have much confident in anyone gaining access to someone else's network inexpensively, unless that network is owned by a small local company, short in front end sales resources themselves, that truly benefits from having other partners to drive demand. Example... Yesterday I tried to buy capacity (7 mbps) Wholesale access to TowerStream's broadband network for 1 day, and they quoted me $11,000 and refused to budge. And they had a live tower/NOC 500 yards away. The wholesale price for 1 year, would have been just as bad. Obviously, we chose another option. To them, its all about what the market will bear, and has absolutely nothing to do with their cost. Many grant winners will have the same mentality, and the fact that they got their grant for free, will have no effect on their pricing sctructure, or pricing structure for wholesale, or desire to even havea wholesale offering. The truth is, I just dont see Public traded or VC funded companies sharing their grant funded networks ethically, regardless of the open access requirments. And a lot of the grant winners are likely going to be the one with financial and investment backing. Its different for small WISPs. Small WISPs partner with other WISPs all the time, because there is a mutual benefit for doing so. I sure hope some small WISPs win some grants, and maybe the wholesale requirements of the program might actually make it to a beneficial reality. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of towers and radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about individual applications with the grant reviewers OR the agency over anything except for contesting an application due to your coverage area. I don't think I kept a copy of that circular, but I'm sure you can find it on line. The only exception is if they reach out to you-but they are instructed to ignore and refuse any other input. They are bound by law on this. Just to be clear here, you *could* talk to them in very general terms about how the application process worked. But you cannot talk in any form about an individual
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Problem - 900Mhz-WDS-incremental speed degradetp Zero then drop- repeat.
Well your problem reminded me of wds + nstreme problem is why I brought it up. I believe wireless-test will fix this. How can WDS and NStreme be used togeather? I thought it had to be one or the other? Any way you could test the links disconnected from the rest of the network and see if stressing the links drops it? Will do that if necessary, after firmware update. Are the links losing wireless association? Yes, they do when it reaches Zero mbps, then immediately restablishes association. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Problem - 900Mhz-WDS-incremental speed degradetp Zero then drop- repeat. Well your problem reminded me of wds + nstreme problem is why I brought it up. I believe wireless-test will fix this. Any way you could test the links disconnected from the rest of the network and see if stressing the links drops it? Are the links losing wireless association? On 9/16/09, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: No I am not using nstreme now. However, to expand on the conversationsand history of the job I am using WDS because that is the standard configuration that has always worked for us. We have a central routing platform at the nearest regional tower and bandwdith manage via VLAN, so we wanted all our leg radios to be true bridges, for easy consistent management of IP space. Many of our MT isntalls are configured for VLAN. When we originally selected WDS for our standard config, taht was like 3 years ago, with the earlier MT 2.X versions, and some of teh alternate methods did not properly work as stated in manual. For example, back then Station WDS didn't work right. Now a couple years later, and up to many version of 3.X, we want to re-investigate what is best practices. In this particular case, Subscriber A had to be a true bridge for various reasons so used WDS. But SubscriberB was an end user residential client, connected with a Linksys router, and could have worked fine as a standard wifi client. What we tried to do first was setup a Virtual AP. Leave Custoemr A on WDS, and then setup CustomerB as a standard wifi station on the Virtual AP standard AP. But we couldn't get the Virtual AP to pass traffic. We weren't sure if it was a config mistake or a incompatible configuration, doing both WDS and Virtual AP on the same WLAN. So that is why we reconfigured everything back to all WDS. We are looking for alternate configuration options, if better. In this particular case, we were very concerned about hidden node type issues, and concerned using regular WDS for both clients could cause significant Hideen Node type colissions or self interference. SubA was like 5 miles away, and pushes much larger amount of traffic, SubB was like 1 mile away, and low use residential. We were concerned Residential SubB could get performance issues because of SubA's traffic use. We were debating whether NStreme w/ polling would have been the best configuration for the solution. Does NStreme polling allow full bridging like WDS? Do you have any recommendations on best practice config now for MT PTMP, (without routing)? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Problem - 900Mhz-WDS-incremental speed degradetp Zero then drop- repeat. You're not using nstreme are you? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: I have a problem with Mikrotik I have not been able to solve. Wondering if anyone has any insight. A summary config is I have a 433AH setup as AP with 1 XR900 and 1 R5H (5.8Ghz). The Cat5 Ethernet port goes to a SMC VLAN switch, where the SMC tags and untags VLAN ID, and continues to the Backhaul Radio. My point here is the MT itself does not have any VLAN configured. I need everything to act as a True Bridge, so I'm using WDS on everything. Both mPCI cards are set up as AP and then WDS interfaces configured. The R5H sector has one subscriber, so there is one WDS interface created for that. The XR900 has two subscriber points. So there are two WDS interfaces set up for the XR900 sector, one for each subscriber. So all three WDS interaces and the Ethernet (to backhaul) are all bridged togeather under one Bridge. SubscriberA has a 433AH also, and
Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Problem - 900Mhz-WDS-incremental speed degradetp Zero then drop- repeat.
WDS and nstreme can be used with wireless-test I hear. Before that it was not workable at all. Any load seems to kill your links - that has to be kept on mind. Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: Well your problem reminded me of wds + nstreme problem is why I brought it up. I believe wireless-test will fix this. How can WDS and NStreme be used togeather? I thought it had to be one or the other? Any way you could test the links disconnected from the rest of the network and see if stressing the links drops it? Will do that if necessary, after firmware update. Are the links losing wireless association? Yes, they do when it reaches Zero mbps, then immediately restablishes association. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:43 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Problem - 900Mhz-WDS-incremental speed degradetp Zero then drop- repeat. Well your problem reminded me of wds + nstreme problem is why I brought it up. I believe wireless-test will fix this. Any way you could test the links disconnected from the rest of the network and see if stressing the links drops it? Are the links losing wireless association? On 9/16/09, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.net wrote: No I am not using nstreme now. However, to expand on the conversationsand history of the job I am using WDS because that is the standard configuration that has always worked for us. We have a central routing platform at the nearest regional tower and bandwdith manage via VLAN, so we wanted all our leg radios to be true bridges, for easy consistent management of IP space. Many of our MT isntalls are configured for VLAN. When we originally selected WDS for our standard config, taht was like 3 years ago, with the earlier MT 2.X versions, and some of teh alternate methods did not properly work as stated in manual. For example, back then Station WDS didn't work right. Now a couple years later, and up to many version of 3.X, we want to re-investigate what is best practices. In this particular case, Subscriber A had to be a true bridge for various reasons so used WDS. But SubscriberB was an end user residential client, connected with a Linksys router, and could have worked fine as a standard wifi client. What we tried to do first was setup a Virtual AP. Leave Custoemr A on WDS, and then setup CustomerB as a standard wifi station on the Virtual AP standard AP. But we couldn't get the Virtual AP to pass traffic. We weren't sure if it was a config mistake or a incompatible configuration, doing both WDS and Virtual AP on the same WLAN. So that is why we reconfigured everything back to all WDS. We are looking for alternate configuration options, if better. In this particular case, we were very concerned about hidden node type issues, and concerned using regular WDS for both clients could cause significant Hideen Node type colissions or self interference. SubA was like 5 miles away, and pushes much larger amount of traffic, SubB was like 1 mile away, and low use residential. We were concerned Residential SubB could get performance issues because of SubA's traffic use. We were debating whether NStreme w/ polling would have been the best configuration for the solution. Does NStreme polling allow full bridging like WDS? Do you have any recommendations on best practice config now for MT PTMP, (without routing)? Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Josh Luthman j...@imaginenetworksllc.com To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Mikrotik Problem - 900Mhz-WDS-incremental speed degradetp Zero then drop- repeat. You're not using nstreme are you? Josh Luthman Office: 937-552-2340 Direct: 937-552-2343 1100 Wayne St Suite 1337 Troy, OH 45373 When you have eliminated the impossible, that which remains, however improbable, must be the truth. --- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:25 PM, Tom DeReggi wirelessn...@rapiddsl.netwrote: I have a problem with Mikrotik I have not been able to solve. Wondering if anyone has any insight. A summary config is I have a 433AH setup as AP with 1 XR900 and 1 R5H (5.8Ghz). The Cat5 Ethernet port goes to a SMC VLAN switch, where the SMC tags and untags VLAN ID, and continues to the Backhaul Radio. My
Re: [WISPA] Keep your Internet away from my garlic!
I local organic store (with a small farming operation) just successfully got a cell tower approval moved some 1000' further away for just this reason. Ironically, he uses a cell phone. But, facts notwithstanding, he was able to mobilize a large group of folks from his mailing lists to fight the tower so it was out of sight (and I guess out of mind, even though 1000' further away isn't going to make much difference...). Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 2:21 PM, David E. Smith wrote: Just in case the I'm allergic to wi-fi folks weren't enough comedy... A Nova Scotia garlic farmer has put the brakes on high-speed internet coming to Victoria Harbour, a rural community on the Bay of Fundy, fearing radiation from microwave towers will affect his crops. Lenny Levine, who has been planting and harvesting garlic by hand on his Annapolis Valley land since the 1970s, is* afraid his organic crop could be irradiated* if EastLink builds a microwave tower for wireless high-speed internet access a few hundred metres from his farm. http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2009/09/16/ns-internet-tower.html David Smith MVN.net WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Chuck Bartosch Clarity Connect, Inc. 200 Pleasant Grove Road Ithaca, NY 14850 (607) 257-8268 When the stars threw down their spears, and water'd heaven with their tears, Did He smile, His work to see? Did He who made the Lamb make thee? From William Blake's Tiger!, Tiger! WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
I am just not getting this. We have two competitors that state that they can provide 14 Mbps wireless broadband to a very heavily tree canopied area. The best we could do is with 900 MHz and that would only provide 3.3 Mbps, if luck. How can these folks get away with such amazing statements? Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects I dont have much confident in anyone gaining access to someone else's network inexpensively, unless that network is owned by a small local company, short in front end sales resources themselves, that truly benefits from having other partners to drive demand. Example... Yesterday I tried to buy capacity (7 mbps) Wholesale access to TowerStream's broadband network for 1 day, and they quoted me $11,000 and refused to budge. And they had a live tower/NOC 500 yards away. The wholesale price for 1 year, would have been just as bad. Obviously, we chose another option. To them, its all about what the market will bear, and has absolutely nothing to do with their cost. Many grant winners will have the same mentality, and the fact that they got their grant for free, will have no effect on their pricing sctructure, or pricing structure for wholesale, or desire to even havea wholesale offering. The truth is, I just dont see Public traded or VC funded companies sharing their grant funded networks ethically, regardless of the open access requirments. And a lot of the grant winners are likely going to be the one with financial and investment backing. Its different for small WISPs. Small WISPs partner with other WISPs all the time, because there is a mutual benefit for doing so. I sure hope some small WISPs win some grants, and maybe the wholesale requirements of the program might actually make it to a beneficial reality. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of towers and radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In fact, there's an OMB circular (from July I believe) that explicitly disallows ANY communication until the evaluation process is over about
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
Statements need validity. Maybe they're full of it? On 9/17/09, St. Louis Broadband li...@stlbroadband.com wrote: I am just not getting this. We have two competitors that state that they can provide 14 Mbps wireless broadband to a very heavily tree canopied area. The best we could do is with 900 MHz and that would only provide 3.3 Mbps, if luck. How can these folks get away with such amazing statements? Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects I dont have much confident in anyone gaining access to someone else's network inexpensively, unless that network is owned by a small local company, short in front end sales resources themselves, that truly benefits from having other partners to drive demand. Example... Yesterday I tried to buy capacity (7 mbps) Wholesale access to TowerStream's broadband network for 1 day, and they quoted me $11,000 and refused to budge. And they had a live tower/NOC 500 yards away. The wholesale price for 1 year, would have been just as bad. Obviously, we chose another option. To them, its all about what the market will bear, and has absolutely nothing to do with their cost. Many grant winners will have the same mentality, and the fact that they got their grant for free, will have no effect on their pricing sctructure, or pricing structure for wholesale, or desire to even havea wholesale offering. The truth is, I just dont see Public traded or VC funded companies sharing their grant funded networks ethically, regardless of the open access requirments. And a lot of the grant winners are likely going to be the one with financial and investment backing. Its different for small WISPs. Small WISPs partner with other WISPs all the time, because there is a mutual benefit for doing so. I sure hope some small WISPs win some grants, and maybe the wholesale requirements of the program might actually make it to a beneficial reality. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of towers and radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to Sunday for a large carrier to play their usual games with this stuff and block the intent. So basically, based on the wording of the rule, it's hard to see how they are going to achieve the intent behind the goal unless the provider is willing to and interested in doing so. Chuck On Sep 15, 2009, at 10:39 PM, Scottie Arnett wrote: Does the process explicitly say that an awarded company has to open their network to competition? Or is this sort of a vague rule? Scottie -- Original Message -- From: Chuck Bartosch ch...@clarityconnect.com Reply-To: WISPA General List wireless@wispa.org Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:06:11 -0400 There is no provision in the rules to protest a plan because you don't think it's a good plan. In
Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects
They either lie or they legitimately dont know what they are doing. What do you think will happen, when they promise more than can be really delivered, and they get grant money? Will the feds take themoney back, or shutdown the WISP, and turn off all teh subs? No. People wont care that the grant winner lied, because its better to have 3mbps then nothing, when the truth is proven. Thats why I hate these competitive grants based on claims made by the applicants. Again, I jsut hope decission makers are smart enough to see the truth, and grant to those with the most proven experience. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: St. Louis Broadband li...@stlbroadband.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 8:06 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects I am just not getting this. We have two competitors that state that they can provide 14 Mbps wireless broadband to a very heavily tree canopied area. The best we could do is with 900 MHz and that would only provide 3.3 Mbps, if luck. How can these folks get away with such amazing statements? Victoria -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Tom DeReggi Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 2:24 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects I dont have much confident in anyone gaining access to someone else's network inexpensively, unless that network is owned by a small local company, short in front end sales resources themselves, that truly benefits from having other partners to drive demand. Example... Yesterday I tried to buy capacity (7 mbps) Wholesale access to TowerStream's broadband network for 1 day, and they quoted me $11,000 and refused to budge. And they had a live tower/NOC 500 yards away. The wholesale price for 1 year, would have been just as bad. Obviously, we chose another option. To them, its all about what the market will bear, and has absolutely nothing to do with their cost. Many grant winners will have the same mentality, and the fact that they got their grant for free, will have no effect on their pricing sctructure, or pricing structure for wholesale, or desire to even havea wholesale offering. The truth is, I just dont see Public traded or VC funded companies sharing their grant funded networks ethically, regardless of the open access requirments. And a lot of the grant winners are likely going to be the one with financial and investment backing. Its different for small WISPs. Small WISPs partner with other WISPs all the time, because there is a mutual benefit for doing so. I sure hope some small WISPs win some grants, and maybe the wholesale requirements of the program might actually make it to a beneficial reality. Tom DeReggi RapidDSL Wireless, Inc IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband - Original Message - From: Robert West robert.w...@just-micro.com To: 'WISPA General List' wireless@wispa.org Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Nah, the plan they have is just to use microwave to bring it in. A system of towers, is what they propose. No fiber. A million bucks worth of towers and radios? -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 10:18 AM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Why not? You should be able to take advantage of that cheaper bandwidth too I'd think. Assuming it's a fiber build, they are going to have tons of excess capacity. Chuck On Sep 17, 2009, at 9:20 AM, Robert West wrote: In our case, our competitor applied for a shade under a million bucks to provide middle mile into the area, as in to bring cheaper broadband to the masses. That doesn't sound like it will benefit us, the cheaper broadband is for their system. -Original Message- From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Bartosch Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 6:28 PM To: sarn...@info-ed.com; WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] Searchable Map of Stimulus projects Though it is a requirement (as Tim set out), the requirement doesn't really have a lot of teeth in my view. If a competitor doesn't want you on, they can design it so it's hard to get on. For example, a fiber carrier has to have an attachment point built in for you to attach at a given location. If there isn't one nearby, well tough. If there is an attachment point but you can't come to terms, it goes to arbitration. However, they aren't obligated to give you wholesale access...just attachment, whatever the heck that means. There just seems to me to be 100 ways to
[WISPA] RAD/Radwin x Wi-Fi
I'm trying to figure out what's under the hood of Radwin Winlink-1000 / RAD AirMux-200 and the MIMO model Radwin-2000 / RAD AirMux-400, in order to better understand what traffic patterns may or may not be suited to these radios. Although costly backhaul vendors (Redline, Motorola) keep telling me that RAD/Radwin are Wi-Fi based, my testing of them insist on telling me otherwise... for instance, AirMux-200 pass with flying colors thru RFC-2544 performance testing with maximum performance (18 Mbps) even for 64 byte frames (27 kpps), which is a very good pps rate compared to the 2kpps of a Ubiquiti Nanostation (non-M). Data rates are indeed similar comparing AirMux-200 to 802.11a, although Radwin tops at 48 Mbps air rate, not 54 Mbps; the MIMO model have data rates that look very much like the MCS8-15 802.11n data rates, suggesting that there are indeed some Wi-Fi heritage in the product, no matter what the tests say. Any ideas on what is going down to the bit level ? Rubens WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
