Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

[Blair Davis]

Hyperlink.

Marlon K. Schafer wrote:

  Hi All,

What are you using for grid antennas?  I really don't like the Pac Wireless 
ones.  But I need something new because the Andrew (can't remember the new 
name) ones are being discontinued.

Suggestions?
marlon




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Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 16:29 -0500, Chuck Hogg wrote: 
> Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our current
> SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.  I'm
> going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
> feedback on what you do...

I don't use any of your approaches.  I use:
http://blog.butchevans.com/2008/12/spam-trojan-detection-with-mikrotik-routeros/

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

[Jerry Richardson]

The RF Antenna Design uses a much beefier bracket - not flimsy like the pac 
wireless.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:09 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

I believe the first one is Andrew based, so will it be around?

The second looks exactly like a Pac Wireless, don't like 'em.
marlon


- Original Message - 
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas


> There's these:
> http://www.mbsicanada.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=246&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1441&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
>
> and these:
> http://rfantennadesign.com/page6.html
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:52 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas
>
> Got a link?  What vendor?
> thanks,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "3-dB Networks" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas
>
>
>> Try Advanced Antenna... I've sold a few and have not heard any
>> complaints...
>> have not seen them myself though.
>>
>> Daniel White
>> 3-dB Networks
>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:14 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> What are you using for grid antennas?  I really don't like the Pac
>> Wireless
>> ones.  But I need something new because the Andrew (can't remember the 
>> new
>> name) ones are being discontinued.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
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>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

[Marlon K. Schafer]

I believe the first one is Andrew based, so will it be around?

The second looks exactly like a Pac Wireless, don't like 'em.
marlon


- Original Message - 
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:02 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas


> There's these:
> http://www.mbsicanada.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=246&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1441&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1
>
> and these:
> http://rfantennadesign.com/page6.html
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:52 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas
>
> Got a link?  What vendor?
> thanks,
> marlon
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "3-dB Networks" 
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas
>
>
>> Try Advanced Antenna... I've sold a few and have not heard any
>> complaints...
>> have not seen them myself though.
>>
>> Daniel White
>> 3-dB Networks
>> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:14 PM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> What are you using for grid antennas?  I really don't like the Pac
>> Wireless
>> ones.  But I need something new because the Andrew (can't remember the 
>> new
>> name) ones are being discontinued.
>>
>> Suggestions?
>> marlon
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>
>> 
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>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>
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>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
> 
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[WISPA] More up to date home page

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Hi All,

In our efforts to further the WISP industry and make it easier for everyone 
to keep on top of what's going on out there we've hired some help to keep 
the WISPA site at the fore front of the WISP industry.

The first article from Alex Goldman (formerly of isp-planet) is online.

http://www.wispa.org/?p=1554

Sometimes Alex will consolidate news worthy articles like this, other times 
he'll write dedicated articles, from time to time he'll profile a WISP.  The 
goal of this program is to help not only our members, but also those 
watching our industry, to stay better informed.  We also wanted someone that 
understands and is experienced with the industry to guide this effort so 
that it stays tightly focused.

Let us know if you think there is other types of content that will help you 
out.

Laters,
Marlon




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Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

[Jerry Richardson]

There's these: 
http://www.mbsicanada.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&category_id=246&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1441&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1

and these:
http://rfantennadesign.com/page6.html



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

Got a link?  What vendor?
thanks,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "3-dB Networks" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas


> Try Advanced Antenna... I've sold a few and have not heard any 
> complaints...
> have not seen them myself though.
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:14 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas
>
> Hi All,
>
> What are you using for grid antennas?  I really don't like the Pac 
> Wireless
> ones.  But I need something new because the Andrew (can't remember the new
> name) ones are being discontinued.
>
> Suggestions?
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
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>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Got a link?  What vendor?
thanks,
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "3-dB Networks" 
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas


> Try Advanced Antenna... I've sold a few and have not heard any 
> complaints...
> have not seen them myself though.
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:14 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas
>
> Hi All,
>
> What are you using for grid antennas?  I really don't like the Pac 
> Wireless
> ones.  But I need something new because the Andrew (can't remember the new
> name) ones are being discontinued.
>
> Suggestions?
> marlon
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
>
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Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[Marlon K. Schafer]

We authenticate all outbound email too.

It's not perfect, but it's worked pretty well.  A better email log (and 
authenticating every message vs. every connection) would make it even 
better.
marlon

- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck Hogg" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:29 PM
Subject: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?


> Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our current
> SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.  I'm
> going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
> feedback on what you do...
>
>
>
> Option 1.
>
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server.
> Allow for relaying of all email originating from your network.  You are
> now open to viruses that spam on your network, getting you listed as a
> spam server.
>
>
>
> Option 2.
>
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
> require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
> authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  This works fine,
> users authenticate, however dictionary attacks leave you open to
> spammers taking control of a user account and using you to spam.
>
>
>
> Option 3.
>
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
> require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
> authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  Require all users who
> authenticate to only email using the authenticated email address.  This
> works fine, users authenticate, prevents dictionary attacks because now
> the spammer has to identify themselves as the email address for the
> account they are using, and can't use a simple username as "joe",
> meaning user joe has to send as j...@shelbybb.com and know the
> j...@shelbybb.com is the full email account.  We host multiple domains,
> so j...@shelbywireless.com works but not j...@shelbybb.com for example.
> This however also effects people who have outside email accounts as they
> can no longer send email using that outside account.  My response here
> is that a large amount of hosts use port 587 as the alternate mail
> server, and for us that is an acceptable work around that our users will
> have to do. This is what we currently do.
>
>
>
> Option 4.
>
> Leave Port 25 open setup a rule in the firewall to monitor amount of
> messages going through and add to address list when they breach the
> threshold.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck Hogg
>
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com 
>
> http://www.shelbybb.com 
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

[3-dB Networks]

Try Advanced Antenna... I've sold a few and have not heard any complaints...
have not seen them myself though.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Marlon K. Schafer
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:14 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

Hi All,

What are you using for grid antennas?  I really don't like the Pac Wireless 
ones.  But I need something new because the Andrew (can't remember the new 
name) ones are being discontinued.

Suggestions?
marlon





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[WISPA] 24dB 2.4 gig grid antennas

[Marlon K. Schafer]

Hi All,

What are you using for grid antennas?  I really don't like the Pac Wireless 
ones.  But I need something new because the Andrew (can't remember the new 
name) ones are being discontinued.

Suggestions?
marlon




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Re: [WISPA] Reset StarOS

[Joe Laura]

Butch, I really need to get my radios back!!!Joe Laura/Superior
Wireless


- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Laura" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:46 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Reset StarOS


> Butch, Why dont you return my calls or emails??? Joe
Laura/Superior
> Wireless
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Butch Evans" 
> To: "WISPA General List" 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Reset StarOS
>
>
> > On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 14:41 -0500, Steve Barnes wrote:
> > > I am changing all my network out to Mikrotik and have 8
> > > various StarOS War1, War2, and Wrap boards that I plan to
> > > sell on Ebay.  I never really learned how to mess with
> > > these so is there a easy way to reset all these back to
> > > factory or do I have to do it one at a time with putty?
> > > And what is the best way to clear the compact flash on
> > > the Wrap boards.  With StarOS is there a easy way to do
> > > a lookup for them like you do on the Mikrotik's with the
> > >  ... button on Winbox?
> >
> > StarOS used to have a utility called starutil if I recall correctly.
> > This was a Linux based tool that would allow you to set up a text file
> > to upload the firewall, cbq and other configuration sections from a
> > linux command line.  I think they had a windows version as well, but I
> > have not used StarOS in MANY years, so I don't know if this is even
> > still around.
> >
> > -- 
> > 
> > * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
> > * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
> > * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
> > * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *
> > 
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> --
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> --
> --
> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
> --
--
> 
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09
> 07:50:00
>
>
>
> --
--
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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09
07:50:00




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Re: [WISPA] Reset StarOS

[Joe Laura]

Butch, Why dont you return my calls or emails??? Joe Laura/Superior
Wireless
- Original Message - 
From: "Butch Evans" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Reset StarOS


> On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 14:41 -0500, Steve Barnes wrote:
> > I am changing all my network out to Mikrotik and have 8
> > various StarOS War1, War2, and Wrap boards that I plan to
> > sell on Ebay.  I never really learned how to mess with
> > these so is there a easy way to reset all these back to
> > factory or do I have to do it one at a time with putty?
> > And what is the best way to clear the compact flash on
> > the Wrap boards.  With StarOS is there a easy way to do
> > a lookup for them like you do on the Mikrotik's with the
> >  ... button on Winbox?
>
> StarOS used to have a utility called starutil if I recall correctly.
> This was a Linux based tool that would allow you to set up a text file
> to upload the firewall, cbq and other configuration sections from a
> linux command line.  I think they had a windows version as well, but I
> have not used StarOS in MANY years, so I don't know if this is even
> still around.
>
> -- 
> 
> * Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
> * http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
> * http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
> * http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *
> 
>
>
>
> --
--
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --
--
>
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>
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>







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.72/2511 - Release Date: 11/18/09
07:50:00




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Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[Jeff Broadwick]

The Envoy router will run two T1s at wirespeed under just about any
condition. 


Regards,

Jeff


Jeff Broadwick
ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106  (Int'l)

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Butch Evans
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:36 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 14:21 -0500, Josh Luthman wrote: 
> The cheapeast option from ImageStream will be 1200 - the transport.
> The envoy is super weak and is only good for the same place could use
> an  rb750.   RB750 probably has more horsepower but I'm not sure.

Not true.  ImageStream has a router EV1000-TE that is $699.  Give me a shout
if you need one.

--

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *






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Re: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet

[George Morris]

We've had excellent results with these. Cheap, powerful and reliable.

George 

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Tom Sharples
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:00 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet

http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d13.htm

- Original Message - 
From: "MDK" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:33 PM
Subject: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet


>
> Looking for an x86 compatible board of some kind with at least 3 or 
> (better)
> more ethernet ports.
>
> Anyone have suggestions?
>
> Needs to have enough cpu power to route full 100m ethernet speed.gigE
> would be even better.
>
> I've not found such a beast... but I need one where there's no ac power, 
> no
> climate control...
>
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


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Re: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet

[Tom Sharples]

http://www.pcengines.ch/alix2d13.htm

- Original Message - 
From: "MDK" 
To: "WISPA General List" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:33 PM
Subject: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet


>
> Looking for an x86 compatible board of some kind with at least 3 or 
> (better)
> more ethernet ports.
>
> Anyone have suggestions?
>
> Needs to have enough cpu power to route full 100m ethernet speed.gigE
> would be even better.
>
> I've not found such a beast... but I need one where there's no ac power, 
> no
> climate control...
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[Matt Jenkins]

We outsource out email and do not run our own server. We also have way 
too many work from home users who all have their own business email 
addresses they need to access. So we do not block port 25 in any way. 
All customers get their own IP address (most are dynamic, but rarely 
change). All of our users connect to our outsourced email server with 
their own username and password for SMTP, and any other email addresses 
have to connect to their providers email server however their provider 
wants.

There has never once been an issue.

- Matt

Chuck Hogg wrote:
> Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our current
> SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.  I'm
> going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
> feedback on what you do...
> 
>  
> 
> Option 1.
> 
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server.
> Allow for relaying of all email originating from your network.  You are
> now open to viruses that spam on your network, getting you listed as a
> spam server.
> 
>  
> 
> Option 2.
> 
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
> require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
> authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  This works fine,
> users authenticate, however dictionary attacks leave you open to
> spammers taking control of a user account and using you to spam.
> 
>  
> 
> Option 3.
> 
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
> require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
> authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  Require all users who
> authenticate to only email using the authenticated email address.  This
> works fine, users authenticate, prevents dictionary attacks because now
> the spammer has to identify themselves as the email address for the
> account they are using, and can't use a simple username as "joe",
> meaning user joe has to send as j...@shelbybb.com and know the
> j...@shelbybb.com is the full email account.  We host multiple domains,
> so j...@shelbywireless.com works but not j...@shelbybb.com for example.
> This however also effects people who have outside email accounts as they
> can no longer send email using that outside account.  My response here
> is that a large amount of hosts use port 587 as the alternate mail
> server, and for us that is an acceptable work around that our users will
> have to do. This is what we currently do.
> 
>  
> 
> Option 4.
> 
> Leave Port 25 open setup a rule in the firewall to monitor amount of
> messages going through and add to address list when they breach the
> threshold.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Chuck Hogg
> 
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com  
> 
> http://www.shelbybb.com  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
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> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[3-dB Networks]

Yes... although be careful what surge suppressors you use :-)

Dragonwave also uses GigE with PoE for instance on the Horizon Compact.

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Matt
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:11 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2
pair.
> Gotta love standards.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T

The Motorola PTP600 has a GigE port and POE.  So will POE still work with
GigE?

Matt




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Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[Matt]

> Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our current
> SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.  I'm
> going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
> feedback on what you do...

If I could start over I would make everyone authenticate on port 587
for SMTP.  But instead we have this in our Mikrotik firewall.

/ip firewall filter
add action=jump chain=forward comment="" disabled=no jump-target=smtp
add action=add-src-to-address-list address-list=spammer
address-list-timeout=6h chain=smtp comment="" connection-limit=\
15,32 disabled=no dst-port=25 protocol=tcp tcp-flags=syn
add action=tarpit chain=smtp comment="" disabled=no dst-port=25
protocol=tcp src-address-list=spammer

Any custommer trying to do 15 or more outgoing smtp connections gets
there smtp port tarpited for 6 hours.  Works pretty well.

Matt



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Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[Matt]

> In a word: don't.
>
> T1s are incredibly dependent upon timing, and due to technical issues, PCs
> don't really do this well.  They generally work but are typically plagued by
> lockups / higher error rates than traditional TDM hardware.

Ran Cyclades T1 cards in Mikrotik routers for years without any issues
tell we just out grew there capacity.  No T1 card related lock ups
that I recall back then.  Biggest gripe was Mikrotik did not support
MLPPP on T1 cards.

Matt

>> Anyone know where (if?) I can get a PCI card to connect to a T1 for less
>> than the $400 or so I have found on my own?
>>
>> I'd like to "Integrate" some of my equipment and eliminate a cisco 2610
>> that's really doing nothing but converting my T1 to an ethernet port.
>>
>> It's no worth $400 to do this however...



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Matt]

> There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2 pair.
> Gotta love standards.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T

The Motorola PTP600 has a GigE port and POE.  So will POE still work with GigE?

Matt



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Re: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet

[Chuck Hogg]

We have purchased different units from this page and they work well.

http://www.orbitmicro.com/global/network-appliances-c-283_288.html

They will usually work with you on price if you have quantity needs.  

http://www.axiomtek.com/Products/ListProduct.asp?ptype1=224&Ptype2=225&P
type3=173

You can get those products from various distributors on their site.  One
of their products might look familiar if you have seen the powerouter.

Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Faisal Imtiaz
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:56 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet



They make ITX & Mini ITX boards (Geocode or ATOM Processor) which can be
powered with 12vdc
Depending on what form factor you are limited to you can add additional
Ethernet port using a  4 port PCI card.

Or

Something like this:
   http://www.orbitmicro.com/global/jad3rtlanp-lf-p-4653.html

Regards


Faisal Imtiaz
Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net
Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of MDK
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet


Looking for an x86 compatible board of some kind with at least 3 or
(better)
more ethernet ports.

Anyone have suggestions?

Needs to have enough cpu power to route full 100m ethernet speed.
gigE 
would be even better.

I've not found such a beast... but I need one where there's no ac power,
no
climate control...

 






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Re: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet

[Faisal Imtiaz]

They make ITX & Mini ITX boards (Geocode or ATOM Processor) which can be
powered with 12vdc
Depending on what form factor you are limited to you can add additional
Ethernet port using a  4 port PCI card.

Or

Something like this:
   http://www.orbitmicro.com/global/jad3rtlanp-lf-p-4653.html

Regards


Faisal Imtiaz
Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net
Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232
-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of MDK
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 5:33 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet


Looking for an x86 compatible board of some kind with at least 3 or (better)
more ethernet ports.

Anyone have suggestions?

Needs to have enough cpu power to route full 100m ethernet speed.gigE 
would be even better.

I've not found such a beast... but I need one where there's no ac power, no
climate control...

 





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Re: [WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet

[jp]

I've bought these to run routerOS very successfully:
http://rackmountmart.stores.yahoo.net/newrmexshor1.html

looks like they have a newer faster version too. I haven't tried this 
yet.
http://rackmountmart.stores.yahoo.net/nermexsh1ura.html

As you can see they are fanless and have a laptop style DC power supply 
in the case. I'm sure it could be removed so you could supply your own 
DC power. There are many DC-DC converters for these sort applications as 
people use mini-itx computers in boats, cars, etc...

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 02:33:26PM -0800, MDK wrote:
> 
> Looking for an x86 compatible board of some kind with at least 3 or (better) 
> more ethernet ports.
> 
> Anyone have suggestions?
> 
> Needs to have enough cpu power to route full 100m ethernet speed.gigE 
> would be even better.
> 
> I've not found such a beast... but I need one where there's no ac power, no 
> climate control...
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
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-- 
/*
Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL
KB1IOJ|   Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting 
 http://f64.nu/   |   for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/
*/



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[WISPA] X86 low power board w/3 or more ethernet

[MDK]

Looking for an x86 compatible board of some kind with at least 3 or (better) 
more ethernet ports.

Anyone have suggestions?

Needs to have enough cpu power to route full 100m ethernet speed.gigE 
would be even better.

I've not found such a beast... but I need one where there's no ac power, no 
climate control...

 




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Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[Dennis Burgess]

Outbound is limited to 10 connections, once you hit that, NO outbound
until I look at it. :)  Mail servers that we know of we increase that a
bit, but they have a public, and are responsible for spam etc and such.


---
Dennis Burgess, CCNA, A+, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
WISPA Board Member - wispa.org
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
WISPA Vendor Member
Office: 314-735-0270 Website: http://www.linktechs.net
LIVE On-Line Mikrotik Training
Author of "Learn RouterOS"

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Chuck Hogg
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:29 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our current
SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.  I'm
going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
feedback on what you do...

 

Option 1.

Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server.
Allow for relaying of all email originating from your network.  You are
now open to viruses that spam on your network, getting you listed as a
spam server.

 

Option 2.

Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  This works fine,
users authenticate, however dictionary attacks leave you open to
spammers taking control of a user account and using you to spam.

 

Option 3.

Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  Require all users who
authenticate to only email using the authenticated email address.  This
works fine, users authenticate, prevents dictionary attacks because now
the spammer has to identify themselves as the email address for the
account they are using, and can't use a simple username as "joe",
meaning user joe has to send as j...@shelbybb.com and know the
j...@shelbybb.com is the full email account.  We host multiple domains,
so j...@shelbywireless.com works but not j...@shelbybb.com for example.
This however also effects people who have outside email accounts as they
can no longer send email using that outside account.  My response here
is that a large amount of hosts use port 587 as the alternate mail
server, and for us that is an acceptable work around that our users will
have to do. This is what we currently do.

 

Option 4.

Leave Port 25 open setup a rule in the firewall to monitor amount of
messages going through and add to address list when they breach the
threshold.

 

 

Regards,

Chuck Hogg

Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com  

http://www.shelbybb.com  

 





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Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[Clint Ricker]

In a word: don't.

T1s are incredibly dependent upon timing, and due to technical issues, PCs
don't really do this well.  They generally work but are typically plagued by
lockups / higher error rates than traditional TDM hardware.



On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Jason Wallace  wrote:

> Anyone know where (if?) I can get a PCI card to connect to a T1 for less
> than the $400 or so I have found on my own?
>
> I'd like to "Integrate" some of my equipment and eliminate a cisco 2610
> that's really doing nothing but converting my T1 to an ethernet port.
>
> It's no worth $400 to do this however...
>
> Jason
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
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Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[AJ]

We have a blend of Option 2... All outgoing Port 25 is blocked except for
our mail server, relaying is allowed by authenticated using the users
primary account info (username/password) ON OUR NETWORK ONLY. Postini is
used to filter outbound messages to spam server issues... All inbound to the
network on 25 is blocked... Users can use webmail if they need access off
our network.

This is for residential customers only... Business customers we use firewall
rules (at the premise) to route all mail traffic through our Postini
servers...

We being a cable provider with a bit under 400k users...

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:


> Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our current
> SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.  I'm
> going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
> feedback on what you do...
>
>
>
> Option 1.
>
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server.
> Allow for relaying of all email originating from your network.  You are
> now open to viruses that spam on your network, getting you listed as a
> spam server.
>
>
>
> Option 2.
>
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
> require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
> authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  This works fine,
> users authenticate, however dictionary attacks leave you open to
> spammers taking control of a user account and using you to spam.
>
>
>
> Option 3.
>
> Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
> require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
> authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  Require all users who
> authenticate to only email using the authenticated email address.  This
> works fine, users authenticate, prevents dictionary attacks because now
> the spammer has to identify themselves as the email address for the
> account they are using, and can't use a simple username as "joe",
> meaning user joe has to send as j...@shelbybb.com and know the
> j...@shelbybb.com is the full email account.  We host multiple domains,
> so j...@shelbywireless.com works but not j...@shelbybb.com for example.
> This however also effects people who have outside email accounts as they
> can no longer send email using that outside account.  My response here
> is that a large amount of hosts use port 587 as the alternate mail
> server, and for us that is an acceptable work around that our users will
> have to do. This is what we currently do.
>
>
>
> Option 4.
>
> Leave Port 25 open setup a rule in the firewall to monitor amount of
> messages going through and add to address list when they breach the
> threshold.
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Chuck Hogg
>
> Shelby Broadband
> 502-722-9292
> ch...@shelbybb.com 
>
> http://www.shelbybb.com 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
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> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
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>
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>



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Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[Chuck Hogg]

We turned it on and do:

550 This mail server requires authentication when attempting to send to
a non-local e-mail address. Please see
http://www.shelbybb.com/email.aspx for more info.  

Had a few calls, but not too bad.  Most people get that error, go to the
webpage, and follow instructions.


Regards,
Chuck Hogg
Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com
http://www.shelbybb.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of David E. Smith
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 4:37 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 15:29, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our
current
> SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.
I'm
> going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
> feedback on what you do...
>

We allow authenticated SMTP relay from anywhere, and unauthenticated
SMTP
relay from within our network. Unauthenticated traffic from our
broadband
customers is transparently routed to a "different" server (with a clever
abuse of NAT rules), and that server does extra spam scanning on
outgoing
email.

If I could rebuild the whole network from scratch, I'd love to make
everything require authentication, but there's a bunch of pesky legacy
customers out there.

David Smith
MVN.net




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Re: [WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[David E. Smith]

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 15:29, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our current
> SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.  I'm
> going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
> feedback on what you do...
>

We allow authenticated SMTP relay from anywhere, and unauthenticated SMTP
relay from within our network. Unauthenticated traffic from our broadband
customers is transparently routed to a "different" server (with a clever
abuse of NAT rules), and that server does extra spam scanning on outgoing
email.

If I could rebuild the whole network from scratch, I'd love to make
everything require authentication, but there's a bunch of pesky legacy
customers out there.

David Smith
MVN.net



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[WISPA] How do you control outgoing SMTP?

[Chuck Hogg]

Ok, so we are passing back and forth negatives/positives of our current
SMTP policy, and are looking for answers on what others are doing.  I'm
going to list what we have done, currently doing, and looking for
feedback on what you do...

 

Option 1.

Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server.
Allow for relaying of all email originating from your network.  You are
now open to viruses that spam on your network, getting you listed as a
spam server.

 

Option 2.

Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  This works fine,
users authenticate, however dictionary attacks leave you open to
spammers taking control of a user account and using you to spam.

 

Option 3.

Block all outgoing port 25 with the exception of your own mail server,
require authentication to send email from your server, using the same
authentication that is being done with POP3/IMAP.  Require all users who
authenticate to only email using the authenticated email address.  This
works fine, users authenticate, prevents dictionary attacks because now
the spammer has to identify themselves as the email address for the
account they are using, and can't use a simple username as "joe",
meaning user joe has to send as j...@shelbybb.com and know the
j...@shelbybb.com is the full email account.  We host multiple domains,
so j...@shelbywireless.com works but not j...@shelbybb.com for example.
This however also effects people who have outside email accounts as they
can no longer send email using that outside account.  My response here
is that a large amount of hosts use port 587 as the alternate mail
server, and for us that is an acceptable work around that our users will
have to do. This is what we currently do.

 

Option 4.

Leave Port 25 open setup a rule in the firewall to monitor amount of
messages going through and add to address list when they breach the
threshold.

 

 

Regards,

Chuck Hogg

Shelby Broadband
502-722-9292
ch...@shelbybb.com  

http://www.shelbybb.com  

 




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Re: [WISPA] Reset StarOS

[MDK]

Send me a list and prices.   I am buying star-os stuff.

purchasing AT neofast.net

--
From: "Steve Barnes" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:41 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: [WISPA] Reset StarOS

> I am changing all my network out to Mikrotik and have 8 various StarOS 
> War1, War2, and Wrap boards that I plan to sell on Ebay.  I never really 
> learned how to mess with these so is there a easy way to reset all these 
> back to factory or do I have to do it one at a time with putty?  And what 
> is the best way to clear the compact flash on the Wrap boards.  With 
> StarOS is there a easy way to do a lookup for them like you do on the 
> Mikrotik's with the ... button on Winbox?
>
>
> Steve Barnes
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 




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Re: [WISPA] Reset StarOS

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 14:41 -0500, Steve Barnes wrote: 
> I am changing all my network out to Mikrotik and have 8 
> various StarOS War1, War2, and Wrap boards that I plan to 
> sell on Ebay.  I never really learned how to mess with 
> these so is there a easy way to reset all these back to 
> factory or do I have to do it one at a time with putty?  
> And what is the best way to clear the compact flash on 
> the Wrap boards.  With StarOS is there a easy way to do 
> a lookup for them like you do on the Mikrotik's with the
>  ... button on Winbox?

StarOS used to have a utility called starutil if I recall correctly.
This was a Linux based tool that would allow you to set up a text file
to upload the firewall, cbq and other configuration sections from a
linux command line.  I think they had a windows version as well, but I
have not used StarOS in MANY years, so I don't know if this is even
still around.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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[WISPA] Radio Waves, MTI, Antel, Til-Tek vs Pacwireless

[Jerry Richardson]

I currently have several PacWireless 17dBi V-POL 90deg sectors up. I'm sure we 
are taking a performance hit using a cheap antenna.

Other options range from 300 to 1500. Before I make another mistake, I am 
looking for comments on the following:

- Radio Waves Pro-Vider PRO-24V-90-16 @ $418
- Stella Doradus 24-9007 (no pricing yet)
- Stella Doradus 24-9008 (no pricing yet)
- MTI MT-344027 @ $650-ish
- TilTek TA-2304-4-ISM @ $1,500
- Teletronics 15-136 @ $685
- Arc Wireless Variable @ $180 (probably no better than PacWireless - maybe 
worse?)
- PacWireless/Laird HDSA24-90-16 @ $250


Thanks in advance.


[cid:image001.gif@01CA6841.05AF7BF0]
Broadband for Business
Public and Private WiFi

Jerry Richardson
VP Operations
925-260-4119 x2
Website   Blog   
Twitter   
LinkedIn

<>


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Re: [WISPA] Reset StarOS

[Data Technology]

You can connect to the serial port and reset to default config.  I don't 
remember the serial port settings.
If I remember right, the compact flash card holds the StarOS software.  
If you clear them you have lost StarOS.

LaRoy McCann

Steve Barnes wrote:
> I am changing all my network out to Mikrotik and have 8 various StarOS War1, 
> War2, and Wrap boards that I plan to sell on Ebay.  I never really learned 
> how to mess with these so is there a easy way to reset all these back to 
> factory or do I have to do it one at a time with putty?  And what is the best 
> way to clear the compact flash on the Wrap boards.  With StarOS is there a 
> easy way to do a lookup for them like you do on the Mikrotik's with the ... 
> button on Winbox?
>
>
> Steve Barnes
> RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> -- 
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by the Data Technology
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>   




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[WISPA] Reset StarOS

[Steve Barnes]

I am changing all my network out to Mikrotik and have 8 various StarOS War1, 
War2, and Wrap boards that I plan to sell on Ebay.  I never really learned how 
to mess with these so is there a easy way to reset all these back to factory or 
do I have to do it one at a time with putty?  And what is the best way to clear 
the compact flash on the Wrap boards.  With StarOS is there a easy way to do a 
lookup for them like you do on the Mikrotik's with the ... button on Winbox?


Steve Barnes
RC-WiFi Wireless Internet Service



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

Sent too quickly

they also have solutions that will do 100Mbps over POTS...


I will say that I was extremely impressed by the Moto/Tut presentation.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Richardson
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:39 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

If you really get stuck, the Netgear PowerLine thingy's actually work.

Otherwise NetSys Ethernet repeaters will do 25Mbps.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:25 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Yep... I wouldn't use this specific product in a house... but it's the only
VDSL equipment I have firsthand experience with.

http://tinyurl.com/yefhy2q


Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Is that both directions? Maybe thats the answer to Forbes question? -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:

> VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
> Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal
wiring
> > is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

If you really get stuck, the Netgear PowerLine thingy's actually work.

Otherwise NetSys Ethernet repeaters will do 25Mbps.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:25 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Yep... I wouldn't use this specific product in a house... but it's the only
VDSL equipment I have firsthand experience with.

http://tinyurl.com/yefhy2q


Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Is that both directions? Maybe thats the answer to Forbes question? -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:

> VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
> Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal
wiring
> > is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

> > 
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

> > 
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > >

Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[Butch Evans]

On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 14:21 -0500, Josh Luthman wrote: 
> The cheapeast option from ImageStream will be 1200 - the transport.
> The envoy is super weak and is only good for the same place could use
> an  rb750.   RB750 probably has more horsepower but I'm not sure.

Not true.  ImageStream has a router EV1000-TE that is $699.  Give me a
shout if you need one.

-- 

* Butch Evans   * Professional Network Consultation*
* http://www.butchevans.com/* Network Engineering  *
* http://www.wispa.org/ * Wired or Wireless Networks   *
* http://blog.butchevans.com/   * ImageStream, Mikrotik and MORE!  *





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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[3-dB Networks]

Yep... I wouldn't use this specific product in a house... but it's the only
VDSL equipment I have firsthand experience with.

http://tinyurl.com/yefhy2q


Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:16 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Is that both directions? Maybe thats the answer to Forbes question? -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:

> VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
> Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal
wiring
> > is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

> > 
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

> > 
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

> > 
> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
---

Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[Josh Luthman]

The cheapeast option from ImageStream will be 1200 - the transport.
The envoy is super weak and is only good for the same place could use
an  rb750.   RB750 probably has more horsepower but I'm not sure.

On 11/18/09, e...@wisp-router.com  wrote:
> Your not saying what you plan to use the card with. Digium have some nice T1
> cards at affordable price and some other are listed on Asterisk supported
> hardware that are affordable. But none of those are supported by MikroTik or
> Imagestream. If your using a DIY router running linux you could make those
> work. Since I know a lot ot people use MikroTik I assume that is what your
> doing but last I checked there was no new affordable cards supported by MT
> unless you consider $1k affordable and those cards are since discontinued
> and only new card I could find that supported that is still sold new is
> disgusting expensive ($2k+ for single port).
>
> /Eje
> --Original Message--
> From: Jason Wallace
> Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
> To: WISPA General List
> ReplyTo: WISPA General List
> Subject: [WISPA] T1 pci card
> Sent: Nov 18, 2009 10:13
>
> Anyone know where (if?) I can get a PCI card to connect to a T1 for less
> than the $400 or so I have found on my own?
>
> I'd like to "Integrate" some of my equipment and eliminate a cisco 2610
> that's really doing nothing but converting my T1 to an ethernet port.
>
> It's no worth $400 to do this however...
>
> Jason
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
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>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>


-- 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."
--- Albert Einstein



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

But the word "Reliably" is on the description.  So it can "reliably" carry
10mbps but we all know you can push it farther, as in running gigabit over
Cat5.  All depends on your environment.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:18 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

If I read the specs correctly, it only does 10Mbps over cat3. To get the
higher speeds you need cat 5 or better. -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:29 PM, jp  wrote:

> http://www.versatek.com/products/vxveb160r2.htm
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:06:37PM -0500, RickG wrote:
> > Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> > My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> > on cat 3? Not according to this:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such
> an
> > animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> > We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
> short
> > cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> > experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
> lock
> > down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> > been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> > which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries.
The
> > speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> > Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> > things.
> > -RickG
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West <
> robert.w...@just-micro.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>  Can
> > > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
> from
> > > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who
knows
> > > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
> best
> > > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> > >
> > > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines
in
> the
> > > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.
That
> was
> > > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
>  I
> > > never saw them used though.
> > >
> > > Bob-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of RickG
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> > >
> > > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > > Any examples?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > > >
> > > > -Kevin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is
the
> > > same
> > > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal
> wiring
> > > is
> > > > >> virtually unused.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >> Forbes
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>

> > > 
> > > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>

> > > 
> > > > >>
> > > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>

> > > 
> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
--

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Oh, I thought you meant the "slick silver" stuff :)

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Robert West wrote:

> Standard "Old School" residential phone wire.  Heavy gauge 2 pair.  Red,
> black, yellow, green.  At least around here, Ohio, the Telco installed some
> pretty stiff wire.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:50 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
> "The conductors on phone wire are thicker giving more surface area for the
> electrons to play on, more than the thin Cat5."
> Huh? What type of phone wire are you referring to?
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> > receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> > PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone
> wire.
> > Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> > giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> > Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5,
> you
> > just have to have the right conditions.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > wrote:
> >
> > > We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > > My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > > as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > > Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > > virtually unused.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Forbes
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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>
>
>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

That was my next question :)

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Jerry Richardson  wrote:

> DSL is much different than Ethernet. Higher peak to peak voltage, only
> needs one pair, will run with dialtone, tolerates splices, etc. Phone lines
> are typically daisy chained from jack to jack - even if it's 6-pair. The
> pairs are pulled out depending on which line you want to tap.
>
> Ethernet is much more fragile. Sometimes you can get away with 1 splice on
> Ethernet, other times you can't. Depends on the devices.
>
> If all of the lines are home run to a cabinet, then you can grab 2 of the
> pairs. Since the runs are usually 100' or less you can likely get 100Mbps.
> Otherwise 10Mbps will be much more forgiving.
>
> But really, do you want a bunch of non-standard installs out there that you
> have to explain to a new guy every time he finds one?
>
> Jerry
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:58 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Think about it.  How many DSL connections have you encountered that
> had a long run of satin phone cord from a block to the DSL modem?  I
> used to have a DSL connection running on some of the UGLIEST station
> cable you can imagine; Scotch locks, stubs, all of it.  Yeah it will
> work.  Is it a good idea?
>
> Mike
>
> At 11:58 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
> >Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>  Can
> >easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> >effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> >the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> >phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> >where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> >with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> >option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> >There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> >home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> >in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> >never saw them used though.
> >
> >Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >Behalf Of RickG
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> >To: WISPA General List
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> >That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> >to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> >Any examples?
> >
> >On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >
> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >
> > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubsc

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

If I read the specs correctly, it only does 10Mbps over cat3. To get the
higher speeds you need cat 5 or better. -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:29 PM, jp  wrote:

> http://www.versatek.com/products/vxveb160r2.htm
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:06:37PM -0500, RickG wrote:
> > Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> > My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> > on cat 3? Not according to this:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such
> an
> > animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> > We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a
> short
> > cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> > experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to
> lock
> > down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> > been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> > which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> > speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> > Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> > things.
> > -RickG
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West <
> robert.w...@just-micro.com>wrote:
> >
> > > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>  Can
> > > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come
> from
> > > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the
> best
> > > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> > >
> > > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.
>  I
> > > never saw them used though.
> > >
> > > Bob-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of RickG
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > > To: WISPA General List
> > > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> > >
> > > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > > Any examples?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > > >
> > > > -Kevin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > > same
> > > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal
> wiring
> > > is
> > > > >> virtually unused.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks,
> > > > >> Forbes
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> > > 
> > > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> > > 
> > > > >>
> > > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> > > 
> > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> > > 
> > > > >
> > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > > >
> > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > > >
> > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> 
> 

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Is that both directions? Maybe thats the answer to Forbes question? -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:26 PM, 3-dB Networks  wrote:

> VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...
>
> Daniel White
> 3-dB Networks
> http://www.3dbnetworks.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but
> I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
> wrote:
>
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
> Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.
>  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they
> stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> > is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > > >
> > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >
> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >
> > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> 
> > 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Ryan,

Sure, I've done 100Mbps wireless links. But thats not the point. Forbes
originally posted that cat3 will do 100Mbps. I doubt it but if such
equipment exists then I'd like to have that in my war chest. Having ways to
do all kinds of things is very handy. With that said, your point is actually
a point I made in a following post and up to 10Mbps will handle most WAN
connections.

-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:15 PM, D. Ryan Spott  wrote:

> Rick,
>
> Do you provide 100mbps service to consumer level connections via
> wireless links?
>
> If I can get 4-12mbits down a cat3 or telco wire for a home user then
> then I'll probably go for it. ;)
>
> Ryan
>
>
>
> On Nov 18, 2009, at 9:06 AM, RickG  wrote:
>
> > Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> > My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do
> > 100Mbps+
> > on cat 3? Not according to this:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If
> > such an
> > animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> > We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose
> > a short
> > cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> > experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had
> > to lock
> > down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all
> > but I've
> > been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out
> > EMF
> > which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission
> > retries. The
> > speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> > Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> > things.
> > -RickG
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West <
> robert.w...@just-micro.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> >> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and
> >> receive.  Can
> >> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> >> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems
> >> come from
> >> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has
> >> made.  Most
> >> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who
> >> knows
> >> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if
> >> they stick
> >> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was
> >> the best
> >> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on
> >> its face.
> >>
> >> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone
> >> lines in the
> >> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.
> >> That was
> >> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with
> >> them.  I
> >> never saw them used though.
> >>
> >> Bob-
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-
> >> boun...@wispa.org] On
> >> Behalf Of RickG
> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> >> To: WISPA General List
> >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >>
> >> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> >> references
> >> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> >> Any examples?
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> >>> barbwire!
> >>>
> >>> -Kevin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>  100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> 
>  On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>  wrote:
> 
> > We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> > house.
> > My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> >> same
> > as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> > line?
> > Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal
> > wiring
> >> is
> > virtually unused.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Forbes
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> 
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> 
>  WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>  http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---
> >> ---

Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[eje]

Your not saying what you plan to use the card with. Digium have some nice T1 
cards at affordable price and some other are listed on Asterisk supported 
hardware that are affordable. But none of those are supported by MikroTik or 
Imagestream. If your using a DIY router running linux you could make those 
work. Since I know a lot ot people use MikroTik I assume that is what your 
doing but last I checked there was no new affordable cards supported by MT 
unless you consider $1k affordable and those cards are since discontinued and 
only new card I could find that supported that is still sold new is disgusting 
expensive ($2k+ for single port).  

/Eje
--Original Message--
From: Jason Wallace
Sender: wireless-boun...@wispa.org
To: WISPA General List
ReplyTo: WISPA General List
Subject: [WISPA] T1 pci card
Sent: Nov 18, 2009 10:13

Anyone know where (if?) I can get a PCI card to connect to a T1 for less 
than the $400 or so I have found on my own?

I'd like to "Integrate" some of my equipment and eliminate a cisco 2610 
that's really doing nothing but converting my T1 to an ethernet port.

It's no worth $400 to do this however...

Jason



WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

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Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[Faisal Imtiaz]

You might be better off in talking to the ImageStream folks to see if you
can do on their router what you are doing on the linux box.
 

Faisal Imtiaz
Computer Office Solutions Inc. /SnappyDSL.net
Ph: (305) 663-5518 x 232 

 

  _  

From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jason Wallace
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card


The pc is Linux and acts as a nat and dns/dhcp server.
It connects to the 2610 with a crossover cable.
Ultimately, I want to put everything in an outdoor enclosure and hang it on
a pole

Is this terribly harder to do than set up a 2610?

Jason

RickG wrote: 

What are you running on the PC that you want to add the card to? I like

integration equipment as well but you're probably better of letting the

Cisco do its job and the PC do its job. -RickG



On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Jason Wallace  
 wrote:



  

Anyone know where (if?) I can get a PCI card to connect to a T1 for less

than the $400 or so I have found on my own?



I'd like to "Integrate" some of my equipment and eliminate a cisco 2610

that's really doing nothing but converting my T1 to an ethernet port.



It's no worth $400 to do this however...



Jason










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Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[Matt Jenkins]

Get a Cisco 1720 and stick it in an outdoor case. Should be cheap on ebay.

Jason Wallace wrote:
> The pc is Linux and acts as a nat and dns/dhcp server.
> It connects to the 2610 with a crossover cable.
> Ultimately, I want to put everything in an outdoor enclosure and hang it 
> on a pole
> 
> Is this terribly harder to do than set up a 2610?
> 
> Jason
> 
> RickG wrote:
>> What are you running on the PC that you want to add the card to? I like
>> integration equipment as well but you're probably better of letting the
>> Cisco do its job and the PC do its job. -RickG
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Jason Wallace  wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> Anyone know where (if?) I can get a PCI card to connect to a T1 for less
>>> than the $400 or so I have found on my own?
>>>
>>> I'd like to "Integrate" some of my equipment and eliminate a cisco 2610
>>> that's really doing nothing but converting my T1 to an ethernet port.
>>>
>>> It's no worth $400 to do this however...
>>>
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> 
>>  
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> 
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> 
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/



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Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[Jason Wallace]

The pc is Linux and acts as a nat and dns/dhcp server.
It connects to the 2610 with a crossover cable.
Ultimately, I want to put everything in an outdoor enclosure and hang
it on a pole

Is this terribly harder to do than set up a 2610?

Jason

RickG wrote:

  What are you running on the PC that you want to add the card to? I like
integration equipment as well but you're probably better of letting the
Cisco do its job and the PC do its job. -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Jason Wallace  wrote:

  
  
Anyone know where (if?) I can get a PCI card to connect to a T1 for less
than the $400 or so I have found on my own?

I'd like to "Integrate" some of my equipment and eliminate a cisco 2610
that's really doing nothing but converting my T1 to an ethernet port.

It's no worth $400 to do this however...

Jason




WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[eje]

At one point I was desperate and used some cat3 keystones with cat5 cabling 
worked fine for some of the short runs I did but one of the runs was almost 
100ft and I had to force the network card into 10mbit mode to be able to get 
any communication going through that link (it would auto neg at 100 but I could 
get and data through). 6mo later we replaced the computer and couldn't get data 
com going on the new computer for a long while until I finally remembered that 
I had used the cat3 keystones and replaced them and things was working again. A 
Pain in the rear will never do that again. Might be able to make it work NOW 
but later when equipment is replaced and it isn't working will you remember 
what you don't and get it working quickly again?
Not worth considering in the long run if you ask me. 

/Eje
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-Original Message-
From: RickG 
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:06:37 
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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> > >>
> >
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Re: [WISPA] T1 pci card

[RickG]

What are you running on the PC that you want to add the card to? I like
integration equipment as well but you're probably better of letting the
Cisco do its job and the PC do its job. -RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Jason Wallace  wrote:

> Anyone know where (if?) I can get a PCI card to connect to a T1 for less
> than the $400 or so I have found on my own?
>
> I'd like to "Integrate" some of my equipment and eliminate a cisco 2610
> that's really doing nothing but converting my T1 to an ethernet port.
>
> It's no worth $400 to do this however...
>
> Jason
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] 8 Fiber Port Managed Switch

[Blake Covarrubias]

I'm actually looking to get rid of a few of those Cisco 2900XL's. They don't 
work in my environment. 

Anyone looking for these hit me up off-list.

--
Blake Covarrubias

On Nov 17, 2009, at 8:01 PM, can...@believewireless.net wrote:

> This is for our side.  We need gigabit fiber for our Bridgewave links
> since they don't support 1Gbps ethernet.  Where customers need fiber
> due to long runs, we typically use fiber converters.
> 
> We ended up using Tom's suggestion of the Netgear and found one on
> E-bay cheap with 7 GBICs included.
> 
> Funny, when I think back to where we started, a 10Mbps hub and single
> 802.11b AP was all we needed.
> 
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:29 PM, Jerry Richardson
>  wrote:
>> This would probably do what you need
>> 
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/Cisco-WS-C2924M-XL-EN-2924M-X29240-XL-V-DC-Fiber-Switch_W0QQitemZ130328914048QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCOMP_EN_Hubs?hash=item1e58356880
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Clint Ricker
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 6:19 PM
>> To: can...@believewireless.net; WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] 8 Fiber Port Managed Switch
>> 
>> Unless space is a major issue, it is usually much more economical to get a
>> copper managed switch and use media converters to go from copper to fiber.
>> 
>> -Clint Ricker
>> 
>> On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:28 PM, can...@believewireless.net <
>> p...@believewireless.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Anyone know of an affordable 8 port managed switch that has 8 fiber ports?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

I'll add, when copper pennies were COPPER PENNIES!  No need back then to be
concerned about wire thickness versus cost.  Over engineered wire.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 1:00 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Standard "Old School" residential phone wire.  Heavy gauge 2 pair.  Red,
black, yellow, green.  At least around here, Ohio, the Telco installed some
pretty stiff wire.




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:50 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
wrote:
"The conductors on phone wire are thicker giving more surface area for the
electrons to play on, more than the thin Cat5."
Huh? What type of phone wire are you referring to?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5,
you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
> > We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > virtually unused.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Forbes
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> 
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> >
>
>
>
>

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Re: [WISPA] Tranzeos Repairs

[RickG]

I just went through a round of doing this exact same thing. In the end, I'm
not sure it was worth the time. I think I'll just buy new units from now on.
As they say YMMV!
-RickG

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 3:26 AM, Matt Larsen - Lists wrote:

> I've spent the last two days going through my "left for dead" pile of
> Tranzeo CPQ/5a/SL5/SL2 radios in the shop.Out of 41 radios, I have
> been able to get 35 of them resurrected, which was very surprising.
>
> To be fair, about 6 of them didn't appear to have any problems at all, a
> firmware update and a signal level test took care of them.
>
> One of the most common failures is the dead ethernet port.   In some
> cases, the port was legitimately dead.   However, a bad radio card will
> also make the ethernet port look like it is dead and cause the board to
> malfunction.   I had a box of old CM9 cards that had tested out okay, so
> I started dropping them into the "dead" boards and they came right back
> to life - and are also now 5/10/20mhz channel capable.   I marked the
> bad boards and wireless cards and threw them away.
>
> Between the units that had dead cards (with good boards) and dead boards
> (with good cards) I was able to combine the working parts into several
> good units.
>
> 4 of the units had blown ethernet on Port A, but not on Port B.  The 5A
> and TR-6000 series radios have two ethernet ports, and if the main one
> is blown out, the secondary one will often still work.   I marked the
> dead ports, upgraded the firmware and put them back in the usable pile.
>
> A couple of the n-connector units had broken pigtails internally.   That
> was easy to fix.
>
> Two radios had bad ethernet jack/jumpers to the board.   Those were also
> easy to fix.
>
> Units manufactured after 2006 or that have spent time in a really hot
> climate (like Texas) come apart a lot easier.   I have two indispensible
> tools, a long flathead screwdriver and a roofing knife that has one
> short sharp hooked edge and a longer sharp cutting edge.   I can usually
> pry an edge open with the screwdriver, and then just drive it on down
> the sides until it splits open.   The cutting knife will easily cut
> through the newer units, but needs some help from the screwdriver on the
> older units.
>
> Putting them back together is pretty simple, although I purposely make
> them slightly ugly.   We have used several different types of sealant to
> "glue" the plastic front to the metal backplate, and a choice had to be
> made.   Some types will seal together great, but are nearly impossible
> to get back apart later without tearing the plastic up.   Others will be
> fine for a while, but lose their stickiness and then the face plate
> falls off.   I decided to keep the maintainability and also keep the
> faceplate on by laying down silicone sealant on the plastic face, and
> then drilling four holes on the corners and putting a small
> bolt/washer/nut in the corners.   This makes them look somewhat
> "Frankensteinish" which is probably appropriate - but they are easy to
> maintain with this setup.
>
> Some of the shells/antennas are going to have different boards put in
> them.   Some are going to get WRAP boards with StarOS and a pigtail and
> will become repeaters.   Some are getting WAR1 boards with StarOS and
> high powered 2.4 cards and will be used as CPEs for difficult installs
> or power users.Some are getting Mikrotik RB112 boards and 2.4cards
> and will be used as CPEs - but apparently only in places where we aren't
> running 10mhz channels since Mikrotik seems to have problems in CPE
> mode.  I really hope that there is a resolution to that Mikrotik problem
> soon.
>
> After dissecting a bunch of them, I have a lot of respect for the
> Tranzeo units.   At least 60% of the failures were bad cards, and those
> were easy to fix.  Most of the board failures had something to do with
> lighting or power surges, which I would not expect many to survive.
> Only one of the units showed any kind of water damage, and that could
> have been an installer's fault.   They are tough units that survive both
> hot and cold temperature extremes, and the enclosures are decent.   I
> still have another 45 or so to go through.   Should be fun.
>
> Matt Larsen
> vistabeam.com
>
>
>
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

Standard "Old School" residential phone wire.  Heavy gauge 2 pair.  Red,
black, yellow, green.  At least around here, Ohio, the Telco installed some
pretty stiff wire.




-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:50 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
wrote:
"The conductors on phone wire are thicker giving more surface area for the
electrons to play on, more than the thin Cat5."
Huh? What type of phone wire are you referring to?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5,
you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
> > We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > virtually unused.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Forbes
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>

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> >
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

The prevalent standard uses all 4, they tried one that did just 2, but it 
didn't take hold as it required higher quality cabling.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Jerry Richardson" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 11:51 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> There was a technology that used all 4 pairs. It was a proprietary 
> solution that put Video on one set and data on the other. Broadxxx or 
> something like that.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On 
> Behalf Of Josh Luthman
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:01 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be 
> wrong...
>
> On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in 
>> addition
>> to certain quality measures.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Robert West" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>>> Can
>>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come 
>>> from
>>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made. 
>>> Most
>>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they 
>>> stick
>>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the 
>>> best
>>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>>> face.
>>>
>>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>>> the
>>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>>> was
>>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them. 
>>> I
>>> never saw them used though.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>>
>>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>>> references
>>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>>> Any examples?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>>
 With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old 
 barbwire!

 -Kevin


 On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
 > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
 >
 > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
 > wrote:
 >
 >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the 
 >> house.
 >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
 >> same
 >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone 
 >> line?
 >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
 >> is
 >> virtually unused.
 >>
 >> Thanks,
 >> Forbes
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>

>>> 
>>> 
 >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 >> http://signup.wispa.org/
 >>
 >>

>>> 
>>> 
 >>
 >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 >>
 >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 >>
 >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 >>
 >
 >
 >

>>> 
>>> 
 > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 > http://signup.wispa.org/
 >

>>> 
>>> 
 >
 > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 >
 > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 >
 > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 >




>>> 
>>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


>>> 
>>> 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wis

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

Yeah, but to just go up and punch in a cat5 jack to the phone wiring just
ain't gonna cut it.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of 3-dB Networks
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:27 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wirel

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Also, solid core versus stranded wire.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:41 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:

> The number of twists per inch makes a difference as well.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Robert West" 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:04 AM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> > Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> > receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> > PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone
> wire.
> > Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> > giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> > Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5,
> > you
> > just have to have the right conditions.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > wrote:
> >
> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> >> virtually unused.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Forbes
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> > 
> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> > 
> >>
> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >>
> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >>
> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> > 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Whats your point? Considering that most internet connections are less than
10Mbps, DSL will work fine over phone line.

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Mike  wrote:

> Think about it.  How many DSL connections have you encountered that
> had a long run of satin phone cord from a block to the DSL modem?  I
> used to have a DSL connection running on some of the UGLIEST station
> cable you can imagine; Scotch locks, stubs, all of it.  Yeah it will
> work.  Is it a good idea?
>
> Mike
>
> At 11:58 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
> >Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>  Can
> >easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> >effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> >the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> >phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> >where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> >with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> >option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
> face.
> >
> >There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
> the
> >home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
> was
> >in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> >never saw them used though.
> >
> >Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> >Behalf Of RickG
> >Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> >To: WISPA General List
> >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> >That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
> references
> >to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> >Any examples?
> >
> >On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old
> barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the
> house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
> line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >
> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >
> > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > >
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >
> >WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> >http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> >
> >
> >
> >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
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> >
> >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >
> >WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

Of course we love standards, that's why there's so many!!!

Jerry

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Robert West
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:39 AM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2 pair.
Gotta love standards.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:00 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be 
> wrong...
>
> On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in 
>> addition
>> to certain quality measures.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Robert West" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>>> Can
>>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come 
>>> from
>>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made. 
>>> Most
>>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they 
>>> stick
>>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the 
>>> best
>>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>>> face.
>>>
>>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>>> the
>>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>>> was
>>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them. 
>>> I
>>> never saw them used though.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>>
>>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>>> references
>>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>>> Any examples?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>>
 With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old 
 barbwire!

 -Kevin


 On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
 > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
 >
 > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
 > wrote:
 >
 >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the 
 >> house.
 >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
 >> same
 >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone 
 >> line?
 >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
 >> is
 >> virtually unused.
 >>
 >> Thanks,
 >> Forbes
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>

>>>

>>> 
 >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 >> http://signup.wispa.org/
 >>
 >>

>>>

>>> 
 >>
 >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 >>
 >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 >>
 >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 >>
 >
 >
 >

>>>

>>> 
 > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 > http://signup.wispa.org/
 >

>>>

>>> 
 >
 > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 >
 > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 >
 > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 >




>>>

>>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


>>>

>>> 

 WISPA Wireless List: w

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

There was a technology that used all 4 pairs. It was a proprietary solution 
that put Video on one set and data on the other. Broadxxx or something like 
that.

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:01 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be wrong...

On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in addition
> to certain quality measures.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Robert West" 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>> Can
>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>> face.
>>
>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>> the
>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>> was
>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
>> never saw them used though.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>> references
>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>> Any examples?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>
>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
>>>
>>> -Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>>> >> same
>>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
>>> >> is
>>> >> virtually unused.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Forbes
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >>
>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >>
>>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> >>
>>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> >
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >
>>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >
>>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> >
>>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West wrote:
"The conductors on phone wire are thicker giving more surface area for the
electrons to play on, more than the thin Cat5."
Huh? What type of phone wire are you referring to?

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 1:04 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5, you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
> > We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > virtually unused.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Forbes
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
> 
>
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Jerry Richardson]

DSL is much different than Ethernet. Higher peak to peak voltage, only needs 
one pair, will run with dialtone, tolerates splices, etc. Phone lines are 
typically daisy chained from jack to jack - even if it's 6-pair. The pairs are 
pulled out depending on which line you want to tap.

Ethernet is much more fragile. Sometimes you can get away with 1 splice on 
Ethernet, other times you can't. Depends on the devices.

If all of the lines are home run to a cabinet, then you can grab 2 of the 
pairs. Since the runs are usually 100' or less you can likely get 100Mbps. 
Otherwise 10Mbps will be much more forgiving.

But really, do you want a bunch of non-standard installs out there that you 
have to explain to a new guy every time he finds one?

Jerry


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On Behalf 
Of Mike
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:58 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Think about it.  How many DSL connections have you encountered that 
had a long run of satin phone cord from a block to the DSL modem?  I 
used to have a DSL connection running on some of the UGLIEST station 
cable you can imagine; Scotch locks, stubs, all of it.  Yeah it will 
work.  Is it a good idea?

Mike

At 11:58 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
>Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
>easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
>the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
>phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
>with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
>option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
>
>There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
>home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
>in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
>never saw them used though.
>
>Bob-
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of RickG
>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
>to the standard being 10Mbps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>Any examples?
>
>On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
>
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
>
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
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>WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

Exactly.  Can it be done.  Sure!  What would it take to do it out in the
field?  Way too much!!!



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:07 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
--

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[jp]

http://www.versatek.com/products/vxveb160r2.htm

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:06:37PM -0500, RickG wrote:
> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
> 
> 
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West 
> wrote:
> 
> > Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
> > easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> > effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> > the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> > phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> > where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> > with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> > option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
> >
> > There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
> > home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
> > in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> > never saw them used though.
> >
> > Bob-
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> > Behalf Of RickG
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> > To: WISPA General List
> > Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
> >
> > That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
> > to the standard being 10Mbps:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> > Any examples?
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
> >
> > > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> > >
> > > -Kevin
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> > same
> > > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> > is
> > > >> virtually unused.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thanks,
> > > >> Forbes
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > > >>
> > > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >>
> > > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >>
> > > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > > >
> > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > > >
> > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > > >
> > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> > >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > WISPA

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[3-dB Networks]

VDSL equipment can get up to the 70Mbps range or so...

Daniel White
3-dB Networks
http://www.3dbnetworks.com

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of RickG
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:07 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West
wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone
line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>

> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
>

> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
>

> 
> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
>

> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
---

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[D. Ryan Spott]

Rick,

Do you provide 100mbps service to consumer level connections via  
wireless links?

If I can get 4-12mbits down a cat3 or telco wire for a home user then  
then I'll probably go for it. ;)

Ryan



On Nov 18, 2009, at 9:06 AM, RickG  wrote:

> Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
> My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do  
> 100Mbps+
> on cat 3? Not according to this:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If  
> such an
> animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
> We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose  
> a short
> cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
> experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had  
> to lock
> down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all  
> but I've
> been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out  
> EMF
> which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission  
> retries. The
> speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
> Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
> things.
> -RickG
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West  >wrote:
>
>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and  
>> receive.  Can
>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems  
>> come from
>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has  
>> made.  Most
>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who  
>> knows
>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if  
>> they stick
>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was  
>> the best
>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on  
>> its face.
>>
>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone  
>> lines in the
>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.   
>> That was
>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with  
>> them.  I
>> never saw them used though.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless- 
>> boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except  
>> references
>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>> Any examples?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal   
>> wrote:
>>
>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old  
>>> barbwire!
>>>
>>> -Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?

 On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
 wrote:

> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the  
> house.
> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>> same
> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone  
> line?
> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal  
> wiring
>> is
> virtually unused.
>
> Thanks,
> Forbes
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>
>
>>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
>
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>
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>



>>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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>>>
>>
>> --- 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> --- 
>> ---
>> 
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[RickG]

Those old phone line units could only do 1Mbps.
My question was: Can anyone show me reliable equipment that will do 100Mbps+
on cat 3? Not according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable or my experience. If such an
animal exists, I could use it, which is why I asked.
We may be in game of semantics here. Can you get 100Mbps? I suppose a short
cable on the bench might do it but not in the field reliably. In my
experience, in order to get a reliable connection over cat 3, I had to lock
down the switch ports to 10Mbps. I would never claim to know it all but I've
been around the block a time or two. The windings are to cancel out EMF
which can cause errors that affect speed due to transmission retries. The
speed capability of a cable is due to the quality of its wire rating -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_5_cable and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_6_cable
Obviously, by utilizing more that 2 pair, you can do some interesting
things.
-RickG


On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Robert West wrote:

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
> to the standard being 10Mbps:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
> same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
> is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > >> http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >>
> > >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >>
> > >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >>
> > >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > > http://signup.wispa.org/
> > >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > >
> > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> > >
> > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> > >
> > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 
> 
> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> > http://signup.wispa.org/
> >
> >
>
> 
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> >
> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
> >
> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
> >
> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
> >
>
>
>
> 
> 
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>
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>
>
>
> -

[WISPA] T1 pci card

[Jason Wallace]

Anyone know where (if?) I can get a PCI card to connect to a T1 for less 
than the $400 or so I have found on my own?

I'd like to "Integrate" some of my equipment and eliminate a cisco 2610 
that's really doing nothing but converting my T1 to an ethernet port.

It's no worth $400 to do this however...

Jason



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Re: [WISPA] NanoStation External Antenna

[Eje Gustafsson]

Or change the clients channel first before you change the AP... Also in WDS
slave mode the client will automatically follow the AP

/ Eje

-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Data Technology
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:53 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] NanoStation External Antenna

I just got my 1 and only wds client off of wds.
He had a neighbor at the bottom of a hill that wanted service so I came 
up with the idea of using wds to get them service.
It worked but if you have to change channels on the access point the wds 
client will not change automatically.  You have to go out and manually 
change the client's channel.  A real pain.

LaRoy McCann

Robert West wrote:
> I was curious, how many of you folks use the External Antenna connection
on
> the Nanostation and how are you using them?  I have never utilized it but
> last night a customer asked about a wireless router to add a laptop to
their
> service and thought about installing an external antenna to the NS2 and
> putting it in Station WDS to see what that would do for me.  Was concerned
> though about creating headaches.  I have enough already.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
>


> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
>


>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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> -- 
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
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> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
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>   





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Re: [WISPA] NanoStation External Antenna

[Data Technology]

After re reading you post I realized that you are using it a different 
way that what I did.
I used AP WDS mode.  Station WDS will probably work ok.

LaRoy McCann

Robert West wrote:
> I was curious, how many of you folks use the External Antenna connection on
> the Nanostation and how are you using them?  I have never utilized it but
> last night a customer asked about a wireless router to add a laptop to their
> service and thought about installing an external antenna to the NS2 and
> putting it in Station WDS to see what that would do for me.  Was concerned
> though about creating headaches.  I have enough already.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> -- 
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by the Data Technology
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] NanoStation External Antenna

[Data Technology]

I just got my 1 and only wds client off of wds.
He had a neighbor at the bottom of a hill that wanted service so I came 
up with the idea of using wds to get them service.
It worked but if you have to change channels on the access point the wds 
client will not change automatically.  You have to go out and manually 
change the client's channel.  A real pain.

LaRoy McCann

Robert West wrote:
> I was curious, how many of you folks use the External Antenna connection on
> the Nanostation and how are you using them?  I have never utilized it but
> last night a customer asked about a wireless router to add a laptop to their
> service and thought about installing an external antenna to the NS2 and
> putting it in Station WDS to see what that would do for me.  Was concerned
> though about creating headaches.  I have enough already.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> 
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> 
>  
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>
> -- 
>
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by the Data Technology
> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
>
>
>   




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Re: [WISPA] 3.65Ghz Grid Antennas

[Robert West]

That's interesting...  I got to to looking and I don't see any either.
That's different.  I have plans to go to 3.6 in a few months, I don't see
that happening without all the necessary pieces, as in ANTENNAS.  I never
would have guessed.

Let me know what you find out.  I would have thought for sure they would be
all over the place.

Bob-



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Holdenrid
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 10:04 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] 3.65Ghz Grid Antennas

I am looking for a 3.65Ghz Grid antenna for a customer. 

 

Can anyone help me source one that can 100% guaranty shipping  today?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff





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[WISPA] 3.65Ghz Grid Antennas

[Jeff Holdenrid]

I am looking for a 3.65Ghz Grid antenna for a customer. 

 

Can anyone help me source one that can 100% guaranty shipping  today?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff




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[WISPA] NanoStation External Antenna

[Robert West]

I was curious, how many of you folks use the External Antenna connection on
the Nanostation and how are you using them?  I have never utilized it but
last night a customer asked about a wireless router to add a laptop to their
service and thought about installing an external antenna to the NS2 and
putting it in Station WDS to see what that would do for me.  Was concerned
though about creating headaches.  I have enough already.

Any thoughts?

Bob-





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Re: [WISPA] UBNT Radio Plastic Door Question

[Robert West]

Oh, hell.  What was I thinking..  Of course they suck, man!!!  It's
early...

Hey, Ben!  If you're monitoring this thread, how about you guys making the
tab stick out from the bottom so we can push it easily and a few raised or
recessed ridges at the top of the slide off panel.  Boy, that would really
make life a bit better with the things. A one handed removal operation would
be sweet.  

Just by chance, I was installing a NS2 on the top of a customer's 30'
antenna tower last night.  It was raining, of course  I made one end
of the cable and ran it up, installed it and hoped the crimp was good.
(Right)  Did the rest of the install, cable sucked.  Redid the end inside
the building, still sucked.  If you're gonna have a bad crimp it's gonna be
on the tower.  So in the rain, here I was up a tower trying to get the cover
off the NS2 without having to cut the thing down.  

I feel your pain.

Ben!  Save us!!!





-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mark McElvy
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:48 AM
To: sc...@brevardwireless.com; WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] UBNT Radio Plastic Door Question

No I say he is referring to the NS2's and Loco's. Having to push down on
the tab and the get the cover to slide can be annoying. It would be nice
if there was a thumb grip area on the cover to allow traction;)

Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Carullo
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:34 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] UBNT Radio Plastic Door Question

Either I have a personal problem or these doors are a PITA.

Whats the secret to make it easy?  I can get them open, but it is not 
something I can do without a screwdriver and two hands while saying
obscene 
words.

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102




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Re: [WISPA] UBNT Radio Plastic Door Question

[Mark McElvy]

No I say he is referring to the NS2's and Loco's. Having to push down on
the tab and the get the cover to slide can be annoying. It would be nice
if there was a thumb grip area on the cover to allow traction;)

Mark McElvy
AccuBak Data Systems, Inc.


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Carullo
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:34 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] UBNT Radio Plastic Door Question

Either I have a personal problem or these doors are a PITA.

Whats the secret to make it easy?  I can get them open, but it is not 
something I can do without a screwdriver and two hands while saying
obscene 
words.

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102




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Re: [WISPA] UBNT Radio Plastic Door Question

[Robert West]

Are you talking about the PowerStation doors?  I've had issues with the
gasket sticking but that's all.  



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Carullo
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:34 AM
To: wireless@wispa.org
Subject: [WISPA] UBNT Radio Plastic Door Question

Either I have a personal problem or these doors are a PITA.

Whats the secret to make it easy?  I can get them open, but it is not 
something I can do without a screwdriver and two hands while saying obscene 
words.

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102




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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

There's the confusion.  2 "standards".  One with 4 pair and one with 2 pair.
Gotta love standards.



-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:33 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:00 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be 
> wrong...
>
> On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in 
>> addition
>> to certain quality measures.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Robert West" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>>> Can
>>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come 
>>> from
>>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made. 
>>> Most
>>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they 
>>> stick
>>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the 
>>> best
>>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>>> face.
>>>
>>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>>> the
>>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>>> was
>>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them. 
>>> I
>>> never saw them used though.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>>
>>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>>> references
>>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>>> Any examples?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>>
 With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old 
 barbwire!

 -Kevin


 On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
 > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
 >
 > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
 > wrote:
 >
 >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the 
 >> house.
 >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
 >> same
 >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone 
 >> line?
 >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
 >> is
 >> virtually unused.
 >>
 >> Thanks,
 >> Forbes
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>

>>>

>>> 
 >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 >> http://signup.wispa.org/
 >>
 >>

>>>

>>> 
 >>
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 >>
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 >>
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 >>
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 >

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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Robert West]

I know, but the twists are to ward off evil RF and magnetic interference.
If you were in a situation with none of these ambient problems you should be
able to push gigabit through it.  But my point was really that never have I
seen the right conditions.  You could play MacGyver and wire up a big
network using Cat3 but in the long run it would cost you more in B.S. than
paying 50 bucks or so for 1000' of the right stuff.

Bob-


-Original Message-
From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:41 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

The number of twists per inch makes a difference as well.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:04 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5, 
> you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
>> virtually unused.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
>

> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
>

> 
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>

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>
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>
>
>
>


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[WISPA] UBNT Radio Plastic Door Question

[Scott Carullo]

Either I have a personal problem or these doors are a PITA.

Whats the secret to make it easy?  I can get them open, but it is not 
something I can do without a screwdriver and two hands while saying obscene 
words.

Scott Carullo
Brevard Wireless
321-205-1100 x102



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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabit_Ethernet#1000BASE-T


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Josh Luthman" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 8:00 AM
To: "WISPA General List" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be 
> wrong...
>
> On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in 
>> addition
>> to certain quality measures.
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From: "Robert West" 
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
>> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>>> Can
>>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come 
>>> from
>>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made. 
>>> Most
>>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they 
>>> stick
>>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the 
>>> best
>>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>>> face.
>>>
>>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>>> the
>>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>>> was
>>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them. 
>>> I
>>> never saw them used though.
>>>
>>> Bob-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>>> Behalf Of RickG
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>>> To: WISPA General List
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>>
>>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>>> references
>>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>>> Any examples?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>>
 With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old 
 barbwire!

 -Kevin


 On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
 > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
 >
 > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
 > wrote:
 >
 >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the 
 >> house.
 >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
 >> same
 >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone 
 >> line?
 >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
 >> is
 >> virtually unused.
 >>
 >> Thanks,
 >> Forbes
 >>
 >>
 >>
 >>

>>> 
>>> 
 >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 >> http://signup.wispa.org/
 >>
 >>

>>> 
>>> 
 >>
 >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 >>
 >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 >>
 >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 >>
 >
 >
 >

>>> 
>>> 
 > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 > http://signup.wispa.org/
 >

>>> 
>>> 
 >
 > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
 >
 > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
 >
 > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
 >




>>> 
>>> 
 WISPA Wants You! Join today!
 http://signup.wispa.org/


>>> 
>>> 

 WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org

 Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
 http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

 Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

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>

Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Josh Luthman]

Don't think so, pretty confident gigabit is 2 pair still.  Could be wrong...

On 11/18/09, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in addition
> to certain quality measures.
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> --
> From: "Robert West" 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
> To: "'WISPA General List'" 
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.
>> Can
>> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
>> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
>> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
>> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
>> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its
>> face.
>>
>> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in
>> the
>> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That
>> was
>> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
>> never saw them used though.
>>
>> Bob-
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>> Behalf Of RickG
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>> To: WISPA General List
>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>>
>> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except
>> references
>> to the standard being 10Mbps:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>> Any examples?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>>
>>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
>>>
>>> -Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the
>>> >> same
>>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring
>>> >> is
>>> >> virtually unused.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Forbes
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >>
>>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >>
>>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> >>
>>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> >
>>>
>> 
>> 
>>> >
>>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>> >
>>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>> >
>>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> 
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>>
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

I believe 100 megs requires 2 pair and Gig requires all 4 pair in addition 
to certain quality measures.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 11:58 PM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive. 
> Can
> easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
> effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
> the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
> phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
> where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
> with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
> option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its 
> face.
>
> There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in 
> the
> home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That 
> was
> in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
> never saw them used though.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except 
> references
> to the standard being 10Mbps: 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
> Any examples?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
>> With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
>>
>> -Kevin
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
>> > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>> >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the 
>> >> same
>> >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>> >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring 
>> >> is
>> >> virtually unused.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Forbes
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> >> http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>>
> 
> 
>> >>
>> >> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >>
>> >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> >> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >>
>> >> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> 
> 
>> > WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> > http://signup.wispa.org/
>> >
>>
> 
> 
>> >
>> > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>> >
>> > Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>> >
>> > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike Hammett]

The number of twists per inch makes a difference as well.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com



--
From: "Robert West" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:04 AM
To: "'WISPA General List'" 
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

> Just think about it, Cat5 is 4 pair. You need 2 pair for transmit and
> receive.  4 conductors total.  We sometimes use one of the other pair for
> PoE and the other pair is "lost".  Cat5 is twisted pair, so is phone wire.
> Twisted for the same reasons.  The conductors on phone wire are thicker
> giving more surface area for the electrons to play on, more than the thin
> Cat5.  No reason at all that it can handle 100mbps.  Same as with Cat5, 
> you
> just have to have the right conditions.
>
> Bob-
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
> Behalf Of RickG
> Sent: Tuesday, November 17, 2009 9:33 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
> 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> wrote:
>
>> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
>> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
>> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
>> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
>> virtually unused.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forbes
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>
>>
> 
> 
>>
>> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
>>
>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>
>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>
>
>
> 
> 
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Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5

[Mike]

Think about it.  How many DSL connections have you encountered that 
had a long run of satin phone cord from a block to the DSL modem?  I 
used to have a DSL connection running on some of the UGLIEST station 
cable you can imagine; Scotch locks, stubs, all of it.  Yeah it will 
work.  Is it a good idea?

Mike

At 11:58 PM 11/17/2009, you wrote:
>Phone line is twisted pair and normally 2 pair.  Transmit and receive.  Can
>easily do 100mbps.  You could even get it to do gigabit with not much
>effort.  No PoE though, no pair for that. HOWEVER, the problems come from
>the nasty connections everyone including the phone company has made.  Most
>phone line isn't "clean" like a network cable you would run.  Who knows
>where the hell the splices and rodent chewed ends are at and if they stick
>with a common wiring scheme throughout the structure.  If it was the best
>option, you could at least test and give up quickly if it fell on its face.
>
>There used to be some home networking nics that used the phone lines in the
>home and you could also use the phones with the things connected.  That was
>in the late 1990's, early 2000.  Some Gateway desktops came with them.  I
>never saw them used though.
>
>Bob-
>
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: wireless-boun...@wispa.org [mailto:wireless-boun...@wispa.org] On
>Behalf Of RickG
>Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:02 AM
>To: WISPA General List
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cat3 instead of Cat5
>
>That would be great! But, I cant find anything on the net except references
>to the standard being 10Mbps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_3_cable
>Any examples?
>
>On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Kevin Neal  wrote:
>
> > With the right equipment I've heard of gigabit over rusted old barbwire!
> >
> > -Kevin
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 7:32 PM, RickG  wrote:
> > > 100Mbps on cat 3? Really?
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Forbes Mercy
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> We currently run a Cat5 into the wall then put a jack into the house.
> > >> My question is since you can get 100MB through a Cat3 which is the same
> > >> as a phone line why can't we run the connection into their phone line?
> > >> Most of our customers have cell phone only and their internal wiring is
> > >> virtually unused.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> Forbes
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>
>
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[WISPA] Tranzeos Repairs

[Matt Larsen - Lists]

I've spent the last two days going through my "left for dead" pile of 
Tranzeo CPQ/5a/SL5/SL2 radios in the shop.Out of 41 radios, I have 
been able to get 35 of them resurrected, which was very surprising.

To be fair, about 6 of them didn't appear to have any problems at all, a 
firmware update and a signal level test took care of them.

One of the most common failures is the dead ethernet port.   In some 
cases, the port was legitimately dead.   However, a bad radio card will 
also make the ethernet port look like it is dead and cause the board to 
malfunction.   I had a box of old CM9 cards that had tested out okay, so 
I started dropping them into the "dead" boards and they came right back 
to life - and are also now 5/10/20mhz channel capable.   I marked the 
bad boards and wireless cards and threw them away.  

Between the units that had dead cards (with good boards) and dead boards 
(with good cards) I was able to combine the working parts into several 
good units.   

4 of the units had blown ethernet on Port A, but not on Port B.  The 5A 
and TR-6000 series radios have two ethernet ports, and if the main one 
is blown out, the secondary one will often still work.   I marked the 
dead ports, upgraded the firmware and put them back in the usable pile.

A couple of the n-connector units had broken pigtails internally.   That 
was easy to fix.

Two radios had bad ethernet jack/jumpers to the board.   Those were also 
easy to fix.

Units manufactured after 2006 or that have spent time in a really hot 
climate (like Texas) come apart a lot easier.   I have two indispensible 
tools, a long flathead screwdriver and a roofing knife that has one 
short sharp hooked edge and a longer sharp cutting edge.   I can usually 
pry an edge open with the screwdriver, and then just drive it on down 
the sides until it splits open.   The cutting knife will easily cut 
through the newer units, but needs some help from the screwdriver on the 
older units.

Putting them back together is pretty simple, although I purposely make 
them slightly ugly.   We have used several different types of sealant to 
"glue" the plastic front to the metal backplate, and a choice had to be 
made.   Some types will seal together great, but are nearly impossible 
to get back apart later without tearing the plastic up.   Others will be 
fine for a while, but lose their stickiness and then the face plate 
falls off.   I decided to keep the maintainability and also keep the 
faceplate on by laying down silicone sealant on the plastic face, and 
then drilling four holes on the corners and putting a small 
bolt/washer/nut in the corners.   This makes them look somewhat 
"Frankensteinish" which is probably appropriate - but they are easy to 
maintain with this setup.

Some of the shells/antennas are going to have different boards put in 
them.   Some are going to get WRAP boards with StarOS and a pigtail and 
will become repeaters.   Some are getting WAR1 boards with StarOS and 
high powered 2.4 cards and will be used as CPEs for difficult installs 
or power users.Some are getting Mikrotik RB112 boards and 2.4cards 
and will be used as CPEs - but apparently only in places where we aren't 
running 10mhz channels since Mikrotik seems to have problems in CPE 
mode.  I really hope that there is a resolution to that Mikrotik problem 
soon.

After dissecting a bunch of them, I have a lot of respect for the 
Tranzeo units.   At least 60% of the failures were bad cards, and those 
were easy to fix.  Most of the board failures had something to do with 
lighting or power surges, which I would not expect many to survive.   
Only one of the units showed any kind of water damage, and that could 
have been an installer's fault.   They are tough units that survive both 
hot and cold temperature extremes, and the enclosures are decent.   I 
still have another 45 or so to go through.   Should be fun.

Matt Larsen
vistabeam.com



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